New York or Nowhere, The Invite, Nirosta Steel and Airplane Movies | Middlebrow Podcast

[00:00:00][music] >> Uh, yeah, hi. Is this Middlebrow?

[00:00:06]>> [music] >> What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Middlebrow podcast. I'm one of your co-hosts, Brian Park.

[00:00:18]>> Dan Rosen. I'm here. Let's [ __ ] do it, Brian.

[00:00:21]>> You're bringing energy.

[00:00:23]>> I'm ramped. It's humid. Humid in New York. Okay.

[00:00:25]>> Look what it's doing to my [ __ ] hair.

[00:00:27]>> That is making you electric >> right now.

[00:00:30]>> I'm John Stamos.

[00:00:31]>> You walked into the jungle and you walked out and by God, you became rich, Dan.

[00:00:36]>> Okay. The city smells horrible. Like truly every turn you go, it smells like absolute feces.

[00:00:42]>> Hot take.

[00:00:43]>> Whoa. I know I know it's that time of year.

[00:00:45]>> City smells in the summer.

[00:00:48]>> I'm one of those people now who I'm visiting friends out east and I come back and I'm like, "What's How do people live like this?"

[00:00:55]>> Mhm.

[00:00:56]And what do you know? What is out east?

[00:00:57]I mean, >> Whatever you want it to mean.

[00:00:59]>> Whatever you want it to mean.

[00:01:00]>> Right.

[00:01:00]>> I'm a transplant.

[00:01:02]>> [laughter] >> Okay, so you're you're staying quote unquote out east and then >> Yeah.

[00:01:07]>> you take the train in and then >> to do the podcast.

[00:01:10]>> into a Penn Station.

[00:01:11]>> and tunnel. I'm a B&T now.

[00:01:13]>> Does out east count as bridge and tunnel?

[00:01:15]>> I think bridge and tunnel is anyone who's not >> Out east in the summer, I think you are just better than >> That's true.

[00:01:20]>> people who [laughter] are better than everyone's trying and clamoring.

[00:01:24]>> Clamoring to get there. I thought I was going to have like a nice, you know, relaxed escape the city kind of thing.

[00:01:30]And then the house I'm staying at, literally two doors down, there's a farm there. A beautiful farm. You can walk around. This summer, there's a Ralph coffee truck pop-up.

[00:01:41]>> Ooh.

[00:01:43]>> So [laughter] So, I thought I'm going to be in the quaint village, you know, beautiful hedges, walking around. No.

[00:01:50]I'm I'm back to the lines of packs of ladies in Alo.

[00:01:54]>> Nice. So, you're going to trade in your Amber Waves hat for a Ralph's Coffee hat? I think >> I think I might have to.

[00:01:59]>> Okay.

[00:02:00]>> Also, [laughter] it's very funny because the everyone who works there are just like young boys who are the children of of like wealthy people.

[00:02:08]>> Yeah, but this is like their fake summer job that they have, but they're just like packing these hot young boys, these like 20-year-olds into a nine into like a little truck. It's like 90°. They don't have It's like Kevin Spacey's fantasy.

[00:02:22]>> [laughter] >> Just where they're just like sweating and like making shitty >> shitty cappuccinos for you.

[00:02:26]>> That's so funny.

[00:02:27]>> I think it's a good humiliation ritual for the people who will rule our over our lives.

[00:02:31]>> The summer jobs out in the Hamptons do sound crazy. Like the interactions that you have on a daily basis because I was recently hanging out with a friend and he said that he was a grocery bag boy.

[00:02:42]>> Mhm.

[00:02:42]>> And he was like, "Yeah, like my first day on the job I met Paul McCartney."

[00:02:47]Just like, "Great."

[00:02:48]>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah, Ken Griffin's daughter will sell you produce.

[00:02:52]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:02:54]>> So, was there Did you wait in line? Was there a long line for the Ralph's Coffee truck?

[00:02:58]>> There was a There was a long line, but you know >> Isn't the whole point of going out east is that you don't want to wait in line?

[00:03:03]I guess you You still want to wait in line, but just not with poor people.

[00:03:07]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. [laughter] You're just waiting with other with your peers.

[00:03:11]>> Right.

[00:03:12]>> Well, you know about waiting in line.

[00:03:13]You had a a fun waiting in line experience.

[00:03:15]>> Yeah, so I am bringing in a bit of a frantic, frazzled energy. I'm I'm good now, though.

[00:03:22]>> Okay.

[00:03:22]>> It's much like stand-up, like when the first joke hits, you're like, "Okay, I got this."

[00:03:26]>> It's with the podcast, when the first Kevin Spacey reference hits. [laughter] >> Then you know you're you're in good hands, you feel good. I was packing this morning because I'm visiting my niece and nephew back home in El Paso for the weekend.

[00:03:40]>> of Texas, they say.

[00:03:41]>> Yeah, the Hamptons of Texas.

[00:03:43]And I >> I fell in love with a Mexican girl.

[00:03:47]>> So, yesterday I wanted to get some gifts for them and I I want to get like New York specific things.

[00:03:55]>> Mhm.

[00:03:55]>> And >> The World Trade Center. Just a chunk of it.

[00:03:59]>> Well, I had a 1-hour window, and I was like, "Okay, like, sure. Maybe I could have gone to the World Trade Center museum and gotten a something there."

[00:04:08]Yeah. Um but I thought, "Okay, maybe I'll just go to the New Yorker No Where store."

[00:04:13]>> Mhm.

[00:04:13]>> Don't judge me. You know, they have like fun graphics graphic >> the way, it's for kids.

[00:04:17]>> A brand for people who don't live in New York.

[00:04:20]>> [laughter] >> But visit one time.

[00:04:22]>> Perfect. You know, this is something you can only get in New York. I think my niece and nephew will really like the t-shirts. Lots of colors, fun graphics.

[00:04:31]I went after we recorded yesterday. So, this was maybe one 1:00 or 2:00 p.m. on a Tuesday.

[00:04:37]>> Yeah.

[00:04:37]>> Dude, the line was over an hour long.

[00:04:40]>> Yeah, it's [ __ ] nuts.

[00:04:41]>> It's The line The line for New Yorker No Where, it's even longer than the Stussy line.

[00:04:47]>> Yeah.

[00:04:47]>> And the Stussy line, that's like >> the hub of all the international Chinese students.

[00:04:52]>> Yes. No, I think they've migrated. Well, it also now merges with [laughter] the Mimi Greek yogurt line.

[00:05:00]They just intermingle, and then you get lost, and you're in this line vortex.

[00:05:03]>> [laughter] >> This liminal space where you don't even know what you're waiting for. Is it fro-yo? Is it a cookie? Is it a limited New Yorker No Where, you know, Seagullman Farms Knicks combo?

[00:05:16]>> Supreme line, non-existent.

[00:05:18]>> Supreme's over.

[00:05:19]>> Dude, the times have changed.

[00:05:21]>> Yeah, and you didn't [laughter] you didn't know when you were on the plane that I had just made a video >> Right, you >> completely [ __ ] on New Yorker No Where.

[00:05:28]>> Dan, I don't I'm not on your wave because I'm trying to let more love and light into my heart. And for some reason, yeah, I did I didn't see your video yet. You went viral for [ __ ] on New Yorker No Where.

[00:05:38]>> Yes. People people the true New York heads understood it as a as a chopped brand as a as a true gentrified transplant brand.

[00:05:48]>> I don't know, Dan. As a as a striver, as one someone who still believes in the myth of the American dream, I respect what this woman has built with New York or Nowhere.

[00:05:59]>> she did DM me. She She saw the video.

[00:06:02]>> you after you made this video?

[00:06:04]>> Yes.

[00:06:04]>> Ooh, Dan.

[00:06:06]>> Yeah, how about that? Um and she just said, "Oop."

[00:06:10]>> [laughter] >> And you know what? She stay laughing.

[00:06:15]>> She stay winning, Dan.

[00:06:16]>> Because she has an hour-long line. Oh, yeah, she followed me, too.

[00:06:19]She has 1.4 million followers. I think she has New York City the New York City handle. That is I I as a native New Yorker, I must say, we are chopped. We are cooked. We are We are dead ass dead now.

[00:06:33]>> Dan.

[00:06:34]>> When the New York City Instagram handle is now run by the New Yorker Nowhere.

[00:06:39]Does Has she even been to New York? Th- This is if Empire State of Mind was a brand. That's if the song Empire State of Mind was like transformed, you know, through a Eucharist-like the blood of Alicia Keys and Jay-Z is in wearable form of the New Yorker Nowhere.

[00:07:00]>> Uh I I I'm torn right now because the the hate the hate mass [ __ ] in me >> You know [laughter] it's bad.

[00:07:10]What is even What is special about like People were mad. I had a 8-year-old boy who had a viral who has a viral >> She saw a space in the market, and you know what? I've come I've had this um issue before.

[00:07:22]There isn't like a convenient one-stop shop in New York like souvenirs.

[00:07:27]>> Where do you go? In every single store?

[00:07:28]>> you go in Times Square? Like if you're visiting friends, and you want to much like >> They have all the I heart New York and the [ __ ] you, you [ __ ] [ __ ] and this is my >> Oh, yeah, that's what you want to give your [laughter] friends?

[00:07:42]>> I'm saying those are the stores.

[00:07:43]>> It's ridiculous, dude. Um so there's this I think young child whose account is managed by his mom, but he's like 8 years old, Kobe Cash, and he commented, "Hey Dan, native New Yorker here, all 7 years of me." Sorry, he's 7.

[00:07:58]"I can't do my job anywhere else, and I love New Yorker Nowhere. Maybe the hat isn't about where someone came from.

[00:08:04]Maybe it's just about loving the city and supporting a brand that celebrates it. And just for the record, I don't do lines." So now I'm beefing with 7-year-old influencers.

[00:08:13]>> [laughter] >> Who I guess are really passionate about New Yorker Nowhere, or I guess his mom is trying to do that.

[00:08:22]Anyway, we're doing a collab with a New Yorker Nowhere on the Mill Bros.

[00:08:26]>> [laughter] >> You should You should DM her back.

[00:08:30]Collab when?

[00:08:31]>> Question Respect Collab >> Collab when? Collab when? Question when is it drop? [laughter] I wouldn't make our listeners wait for an hour online.

[00:08:40]>> I had an uh >> By the way, do you say online or in line? Cuz I said online in this video, and people criticized me.

[00:08:44]>> I'm a true New Yorker, so I say online.

[00:08:46]>> Yeah, that is a New Yorker. You've You've adopted our ways.

[00:08:49]>> I've adopted it.

[00:08:49]>> It's like how um like Soviet agents would be able to tell if someone was a CIA spy if they're leaning?

[00:08:57]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:08:57]>> Cuz apparently that's a very American thing. It's leaning. The online is the New York tell.

[00:09:02]>> We're entitled people. Any space that's around us belongs to me now. I'm going to do a nice little lean.

[00:09:07]>> Little lean.

[00:09:07]>> Take up some space.

[00:09:09]>> lean online.

[00:09:10]>> Uh speaking of fun graphic T-shirts though, I had I don't Have you ever had this happen to you? Um so, friend of the pod George shout out, big have a helping hand with the merch operation.

[00:09:22]>> We're 2/3 done. We're 2/3 done with the merch.

[00:09:25]>> [snorts] [laughter] >> We got hats done and totes.

[00:09:27]>> going to become this long-running bit?

[00:09:29]We'll be like 2 more years of this podcast.

[00:09:31]>> megalopolis.

[00:09:32]>> [laughter] >> Um no, but he gifted me a World Cup T-shirt that had I picked it because it had a very cute dog graphic on it that reminded me of Snoopy.

[00:09:43]And it's just like a t-shirt that says Copa Mundial.

[00:09:46]>> Snoopy Snoopy big in Japan.

[00:09:48]>> I went to a friend's place to see Mexico-England and this [ __ ] cool ass like old head New Yorker comes up to me and he was like dog I need that shirt. That [ __ ] shirt.

[00:10:04]>> Wow.

[00:10:05]>> He was like, I need it. That [ __ ] dog right there. That took me back 30 [ __ ] years. He's like >> He mugged you for your shirt?

[00:10:13]>> but no no >> [laughter] >> But he's like, that dog. And I was like, oh this dog. And he saw the blank expression in my face and he's like, you know that dog, right? I was [laughter] like no, what is it? And he was just like That's the [ __ ] logo for the 1994 US World Cup. That's Striker the dog. He called me out for being a poser.

[00:10:35]>> [laughter] >> You were wearing the Nirvana shirt.

[00:10:38]And you never even couldn't even name a single album.

[00:10:41]>> ever happened to you? You're like wearing something and then so like a real head calls you out on it and you just have no >> thing? Yeah, maybe.

[00:10:48]>> Just shame. You're like, oh oh yeah yeah like a >> [gasps] >> yeah I've heard I've heard of it.

[00:10:53]>> [laughter] >> You can't relate.

[00:10:54]>> I can't relate. No, I only I only wear classic vintage things that I personally understand the deep history and texture for. I'm not a poser. [laughter] It's okay that you're a poser.

[00:11:04]>> That was very Gen Z of me. I was like, oh it looks cool.

[00:11:06]>> couldn't even at least taken a photo put it into to chat GPT see what's up?

[00:11:11]>> Is that what you do with all the wears your vintage wears? Is that >> [laughter] >> you upload a photo and >> Value? What's the What's the eBay value of this?

[00:11:19]>> That was very embarrassing of me but now I know.

[00:11:21]But yeah, it's a really >> You learned about Striker the dog.

[00:11:24]>> Striker the dog is a very cute shirt.

[00:11:25]>> That's before time. You were a child.

[00:11:27]>> Follow Onside on Instagram.

[00:11:29]>> Okay.

[00:11:29]>> Great World Cup wears. But yes, before we recorded Dan, I've been listening to this album.

[00:11:36]>> Mhm.

[00:11:37]>> And I felt pride and joy because I was, you know, I've been listening to it basically for the last 2 days because this new album just came out.

[00:11:46]I was like, oh hell yeah, this is exactly what Dan is going to like.

[00:11:52]>> You're excited. You came in excited.

[00:11:54]>> So I've been listening to this album by this artist Neurasthenia >> Mhm.

[00:11:59]>> is an alias for a Scottish artist name Stephen Hall.

[00:12:04]>> Okay.

[00:12:05]>> 69 years old.

[00:12:06]>> I had never heard of this guy until this week as well.

[00:12:09]>> Yeah.

[00:12:09]>> So I don't know which chaotic good, you know, >> [laughter] >> I don't know what this 69-year-old PR company he's paying to astroturf my algorithm that fed it to me.

[00:12:20]>> Absolutely. All my tasteful gays on Instagram are sharing this album.

[00:12:24]>> Shout out George Severis.

[00:12:26]And >> he he put it out?

[00:12:28]>> Yeah.

[00:12:30]I I I threw up a little Instagram story.

[00:12:32]George Severis is so good. I'm like, I'm in good hands.

[00:12:36]I'm posting the right things, sharing the right art.

[00:12:38]>> It is good. When the when the right person responds to your story, [laughter] you're like, oh yeah, I do have good taste. All right. But you had already heard of this artist.

[00:12:47]>> I'm sorry.

[00:12:47]>> Yeah.

[00:12:48]>> I'm sorry I'm ahead of you in the culture game.

[00:12:49]>> the studio and I was like, yeah.

[00:12:51]>> You were so excited. [laughter] You were like a little kid.

[00:12:55]You know, this is what it's going to be like when you bring your New Yorker No Wear merch to your nephew. You're like, yeah, we already have the the whole sweatsuit, Uncle Brian.

[00:13:03]>> Which by the way, when you made that New Yorker No Wear viral video, our old editor of this [ __ ] podcast, Devin, commented on it. He said, didn't Brian own this hat?

[00:13:15]>> Yes.

[00:13:16]Did you?

[00:13:16]>> No, dude. Wow, Devin. It's on sight. No, so I've been >> Yeah, so he used to he used to play with Arthur Russell or used to perform. By the way, if you you don't know Arthur Arthur Russell, you know, get on your [ __ ] >> Get on your [ __ ] >> Go listen to [ __ ] Arthur Russell.

[00:13:32]>> Did you listen to Arthur Russell before Neurasthenia Steel?

[00:13:34]>> Yes.

[00:13:35]>> [laughter] >> I've been on the Arthur Russell train.

[00:13:37]>> I did not listen to Arthur Russell before Neurasthenia Steel.

[00:13:40]>> Did you start listening to Arthur Russell?

[00:13:41]>> I started listening to Arthur Russell.

[00:13:43]>> That's us.

[00:13:44]>> Yeah.

[00:13:45]>> That's us.

[00:13:46]>> So, >> before we got here.

[00:13:48]>> new album, My Skyscraper by Neurasthenia Steel.

[00:13:52]>> Official Middle Brow recommendation of the week.

[00:13:56]>> I'm still working through it. I don't know if I can fully recommend it, but >> That and the Madonna If you need the exact opposite, you can listen to the new Madonna.

[00:14:02]Confessions, too.

[00:14:03]>> So, kind of a flex, this artist Steven Hall, he just turned 69, and then he released this album the next day. He's like a like a 69-year-old new pop star, pop sensation, and >> By the way, Madonna 67, too. Maybe maybe it's you know, the late 60s is when you can still put out good music. I feel like it used to be you're done.

[00:14:26]>> But reading about um Steven Hall, it's Yeah, what's his deal? It's kind of like a history lesson in the peak like downtown New York of the 1970s.

[00:14:36]>> Oh, nice.

[00:14:37]>> Who was he hanging with?

[00:14:38]>> So, he was hanging with Larry Fagan and Allen Ginsberg, and then he lived in like the the Poets Building, >> Oh, right, right, right.

[00:14:46]>> and then Allen Ginsberg introduced him to Arthur Russell in the mid-1970s, and then they struck up like a really great friendship, and um >> This is why we need artist affordable artist housing, so you can have these, you know, interactions between >> [laughter] >> poets and artists and painters, this cross-pollination, you know, that happened in the downtown scene, you know, and and and that's really how you get great art. And now now what, Brian?

[00:15:11]>> Well, we have the internet for that, Dan.

[00:15:13]>> Yes.

[00:15:13]>> Yeah. I mean, people are going to talk about Tik Tok uh much like they did in the >> [laughter] >> Yes, the great the The The >> collapse that happened.

[00:15:22]>> Yeah, it's like "Oh, I took my inspiration from the satirical character videos of Delaney Rowe, who then took her inspiration satirizing, you know, Garden State and Zach Braff who came before her.

[00:15:35]>> And she was collaborating with Jake Shane and they hit each other up.

[00:15:41]Yeah, it's less romantic when it happens in in Instagram DMs.

[00:15:44]>> Yeah, but you know, that is the reality of today. This album is like it's like you recommended the sort of Cindy Lee. Like it sounds very old.

[00:15:56]But then there's a timelessness to it where it still feels current.

[00:16:01]>> Yeah, there's an ethereal quality to it.

[00:16:04]>> And uh >> I mean also Cameron Winter is like I would say very much in that is at least his solo album is like in the Arthur Russell tradition as well. So I I just have something about that that sound seems to be making a comeback.

[00:16:18]>> I don't know how to describe it because there's like disco tracks on it, but then there's also like folk orchestra and then there's a song in Mandarin because uh >> He got China max. Steven Steven Hall lived in Taiwan. You got to reach out.

[00:16:34]You got to reach.

[00:16:35]He had a lover in China.

[00:16:36]>> John Cena speaks you know.

[00:16:39]>> Uh and like I could learn from this because I'm very personal I'm very like I have a hard time just like letting things go or just publishing things because I am so neurotic and I'm like very precious with things. But in this track like the same song will appear like multiple times in different arrangements. And I'm like you know what I kind of [ __ ] with that, you know? Just like [ __ ] it.

[00:17:02]I mean Kanye does that too. We'll just like release something and then like take it down.

[00:17:06]>> Yeah, Kanye >> [laughter] >> iterations.

[00:17:08]>> Yeah.

[00:17:09]>> Or you hear it like wasn't that a different song with like poopity scoop uh rap?

[00:17:14]>> Yeah.

[00:17:14]>> Yeah. By the way, the fact that this guy was 69 who nice who most of us had never heard of I in my mind I'd never heard of him and now he seems to you know really be popping off at least in in certain circles like compared to I don't know if you've seen Lizzo is now like complaining about the fact that her album bombed and she thinks she's like being >> canceled >> not I don't even cancel just like ignored and not supported and pushed out of the market um and it's like well you know and James Blake was complaining like a few weeks ago about how like everything's AstroTurfed well you know still if you make good [ __ ] there is actually hope like people will find it like Cindy Lee a few years ago didn't even put um their album on streaming it was just on like >> Bandcamp >> Bandcamp and YouTube and it would they filled out like Brooklyn Paramount they you know they sold out tour it was like Pitchfork's you know top 10 like it could still make a splash so I you know >> Yeah all you need is >> generational talent just be [ __ ] talented >> and an endorsement by album of the year by Pitchfork >> came from Drunker and who cares [laughter] who cares about Pitchfork >> age so poorly in two weeks when we find out that Pitchfork >> Coyote and chaotic good >> Coyote is behind [laughter] this entire 69 year old's project >> behind chaotic good and we don't even realize >> [laughter] >> Every time I clip pops off we're like damn Are we organic nothing is organic >> We're just doing right now we're just doing free advertising for chaotic good >> Yeah >> So if you're trying to AstroTurf the algorithm >> We're a CIA >> go look into chaotic good >> We don't even realize we're a CIA op this whole time >> Yeah so if you're into listening to something that's a little timeless and brings back to >> when you're road tripping this summer >> I don't know if this would be good for road trip This is good for like subway hot New York subway commute >> But road trip I mean road trip in Texas yeah I don't know >> do you need? What do you play?

[00:19:14]>> I mean, road trip in Texas, I need like Skrillex. I need Skrillex, dude. Because you're driving straight for 10 hours with no change in the landscape. So, I just need something to Slater. Do you listen to Slater?

[00:19:27]>> I really [ __ ] with her new album a lot.

[00:19:29]>> Yeah?

[00:19:29]>> It's sick.

[00:19:31]Some some new good [ __ ] came out in the last few months. I feel like it was a dry year. All of a sudden Slater I mean, Slater's like if you miss like >> Justice >> Justice >> was Justice.

[00:19:41]>> Uh Justice with like Lady Gaga. If you or Kesha. If that's the combo you need.

[00:19:47]It is insanely Justice. But I That's me.

[00:19:51]>> Have you Did I talk about luxury pet goods on a previous episode?

[00:19:56]>> Maybe we did with MC.

[00:19:58]Did I No, no, not with MC. Um >> With Carrera?

[00:20:00]>> Carrera.

[00:20:01]>> I've been thinking a lot about luxury pet goods, dude.

[00:20:03]>> Okay.

[00:20:04]>> But this is going to transition nicely into this seminal piece of art that we made.

[00:20:11]>> [ __ ] with my foot. So, I've been hate [ __ ] I've been not a fan of animals this week.

[00:20:18]>> Was there >> Just walking in a yard.

[00:20:19]>> Was there Oh, well, that's not so bad.

[00:20:21]You can just scrape your foot along the grass.

[00:20:23]>> No, and then you got to I didn't even know what it was. I like looked at it.

[00:20:26][laughter] And got to hobble home.

[00:20:30]>> It is very destabilizing because the I have stepped in [ __ ] many times in New York. And it's always like one piece of [ __ ] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Like one >> singular piece of [ __ ] >> Yeah, I know. I get that.

[00:20:41]>> And it's enough for you to think that like God is punishing you.

[00:20:44]>> Yes.

[00:20:45]>> [laughter] >> And he is.

[00:20:46]>> Yeah.

[00:20:46]>> Or she.

[00:20:47]>> Yeah. Or they.

[00:20:48]>> Or they.

[00:20:49]No. God God picks a side. Um >> [laughter] >> I have I did have a Larry David moment yesterday where I saw a man in a motorized wheelchair.

[00:20:59]>> Okay.

[00:21:00]>> Disabled man.

[00:21:00]>> Yeah.

[00:21:01]>> With uh a dog on his leash. You know, walking the dog or rolling the dog. Yeah. And I there was a part of me that's like, this guy's not picking up the [ __ ] >> [laughter] >> This guy's not picking up [ __ ] He can't get out of his motorized scooter.

[00:21:18]>> [gasps] >> Did you follow him?

[00:21:19]>> a pass?

[00:21:20]>> Did you follow him?

[00:21:20]>> First of all, he was taking up the whole sidewalk. Like he was rolling and he and the and you couldn't the like the you know, >> [laughter] >> the leash was stretched the entire sidewalk and the dog's on the say you just like walking at a snail's pace.

[00:21:34]And then just like and then I'm just like, I don't know. Maybe maybe you shouldn't have a dog.

[00:21:38]>> Oh my >> [laughter] >> Or does he get a pass? Does he get because he's he's unfortunately disabled? He is does he get >> you followed him. Excuse me. Excuse me.

[00:21:48]I'm sorry, you going >> You going to pick that up?

[00:21:50]>> I think you forgot something and that's when he's going to tell you that he has Parkinson's.

[00:21:53]>> Yeah.

[00:21:54]>> And like, huh? Then who who wins?

[00:21:55]>> [laughter] >> You don't get a dog.

[00:21:57]Some people don't get dogs.

[00:21:59]>> 100% he's not picking up the [ __ ] >> [laughter] >> I just I thought we lived in a society.

[00:22:04]I guess we're making exceptions now.

[00:22:05]Where does it end?

[00:22:06]>> No, so I've been thinking this is going to pair nicely because between the two of us I I have a Silicon Valley leaning tendencies.

[00:22:13]>> Mhm.

[00:22:14]>> I'm I'm capitalism pilled. I'm trying to think of like hairbrained schemes to to get rich quick.

[00:22:21]>> freak out >> [laughter] >> and you're like, yes.

[00:22:27]>> [gasps] >> Yes, [ __ ] the AI companies.

[00:22:29]>> [laughter] >> Only Palantir is good.

[00:22:32]>> Colleges are [ __ ] worthless, Stan, okay? Shouldn't we just go on the front lines and do something real with our lives?

[00:22:39]>> Why isn't Taika Waititi played him in something yet? It's uncanny the resemblance.

[00:22:43]>> [laughter] >> They are they act very similarly.

[00:22:46]They're annoying.

[00:22:48]They have the same like quirk they're like quirked up chunguses.

[00:22:51]>> Yes. [laughter] They feel like you really tedious to get stuck with at a dinner party.

[00:22:55]>> They're both polyamorous, too. I mean half Jews, half POC. Taika Waititi will play Alex in a future biopic.

[00:23:05]>> he kind of played that something like that in Free Guy.

[00:23:10]>> Who?

[00:23:10]>> Taika Not Yeah, not Alex Karp.

[00:23:13]>> [laughter] >> What's What was Free Guy again?

[00:23:16]>> Free Guy was the Ryan Reynolds and PC >> a video game?

[00:23:20]>> Yeah, he like has He realizes he's in a video game.

[00:23:23]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:23:26]That's a perfect airplane movie, by the way.

[00:23:29]That's the kind of movie you can only watch on an airplane.

[00:23:32]You're like, [laughter] "I'm not I'm never going to pay money for it."

[00:23:35]>> believe in airplane I airplane movies is like I force myself to watch like Fruitvale Station. I'm like, I I must do it. I don't I don't believe in watching.

[00:23:42]And then I just watch, you know, Wolverine from someone I just I put on a homework movie and then I watch Wolverine on someone else's screen. And it doesn't count.

[00:23:52]>> dude. Airplane movie By By the way, Fruitvale Station, that is a movie that will make you cry at sea level. So, to watch that on an airplane >> I [ __ ] bawled.

[00:24:01]>> [laughter] >> Bawled in that movie.

[00:24:02]>> Airplane movies like 40 to 70% on Rotten Tomatoes.

[00:24:06]>> Okay.

[00:24:06]>> That's the sweet That's the sweet spot.

[00:24:08]>> But I'm excited to watch Minions versus Monsters >> on the airplane.

[00:24:11]>> on an airplane cuz no one will sit with [laughter] me. That's 97% on Rotten >> because it is number one in the box office right now.

[00:24:18]>> I know. And I'm not friends with any 7-year-old children.

[00:24:21]>> [laughter] >> Or you should ask the 7-year-old influencer who loves you.

[00:24:24]>> Oh, yeah. He's like, "Let's go on a little date."

[00:24:27]>> Oh my god, Dan, please don't do that.

[00:24:29][laughter] Um >> You think You think I'd get in trouble if I DM'd a 7-year-old boy and said, "Do you want to go see Minions [laughter] and Monsters with me?"

[00:24:36]>> You need to chill with the movies, man.

[00:24:38]You've been trying to get me to see Citizen Vigilante.

[00:24:40]>> We're going to We're going to We're going to talk about it on a on a Patreon subsc If you want to hear me and Brian talk about fascist agitprop, you got to subscribe to the Patreon. We're not giving you that [ __ ] for free.

[00:24:50]>> [laughter] >> I know Armie Hammer is just publicly regretting >> to explain to people what >> Well, you explain because you told me to watch it. like, "What is this? And I saw that it was 3% on Rotten Tomatoes and it was like critically panned and I was like >> know you can't you can't trust the lib critics, okay? [laughter] When it comes to this kind of urgent movie. [gasps] Uh Citizen Vigilante is a German It's an English-language film, but it's by German director Uwe Boll. Which um it seemed like the only gig that Armie Hammer can get, sadly.

[00:25:18]>> He got paid He got paid $250,000 to star in >> before he was like selling cars. Like what's he going to >> timeshares in the Cayman Islands.

[00:25:25]>> wasn't asked to be in Social Network 2.

[00:25:27]Like he's full-on tar, you know?

[00:25:30]Um he's he's not getting work. So, he signed up for this movie and this movie is is like is just pure fascism. It's about someone who hunts down uh you know the the right now has this belief that there is like uh immigrant hordes who are coming in and sexually assaulting um women and they're not being tried because of like I don't know German wokeness or something.

[00:25:55]And and so Citizen Vigilante like hunts down, you know, uh killers who go or rapists who go free and also kills their whole family. It's like it's like definitive fascism.

[00:26:08]>> Like Elon Musk >> Yeah. promoted it.

[00:26:10]>> Yes. Yes. Uh as he >> would >> has has a tendency to interfere with uh right-wing populist movements in in Europe. And yeah, yeah, I mean he's he's basically a out and out uh >> Maybe we shouldn't >> this and >> [laughter] >> We're going to watch it.

[00:26:28]>> We're going to watch it for free.

[00:26:30]>> Yeah, we're going to watch it for free.

[00:26:30]It's on Twitter. We're not going to support >> [laughter] >> Uwe Boll.

[00:26:34]>> Uwe Boll. But like there are good like like Have you seen Death Wish?

[00:26:39]>> No.

[00:26:39]>> Okay. So, there's like Death Wish, there's like Dirty Harry. These are these are like movies that came out in the '70s when there was rampant like when crime was insane in America and it felt like there was a breakdown. and these are these like vigilante movies where it is someone going outside the law and just like killing whoever he thinks is you know Charles Bronson or Clint Eastwood killing whoever he thinks deserves it. And you're And you know, the But the thing is those movies are made well.

[00:27:09]>> [laughter] >> So you it does kind of like make your blood kind of you get little red hot blooded you know, you're excited like yeah [ __ ] kill them and you're like oh no I'm not a good person. No, we need to court of justice and all that.

[00:27:22]But this seems I know I'm excited I'm excited to see this because I think it seemed pretty unabashedly evil. Now Armie Hammer Hammer is sorry. He's in Triumph of the Will.

[00:27:32]>> It is I mean it's straight out of like Veep Armie Hammer is the star of this fascist film and then now he's he said he watched it and he cried because he [laughter] hated the way that he was portrayed and he regrets it. I just what did he think he was signing up for?

[00:27:50]>> [laughter] >> At what point did he think like oh I'm actually I'm just I'm just making John Wick. Like what did he think >> [laughter] >> was going on?

[00:27:58]>> also he agreed to he agreed he's already signed on to do the sequel.

[00:28:02]>> Well, maybe the sequel he goes to prison Brian and he faces justice. Have you thought [laughter] about that?

[00:28:07]>> [gasps] >> You know?

[00:28:08]>> Okay. Okay.

[00:28:09]>> Maybe Angela Merkel comes and and you know throws him in jail. Maybe that's what's going to happen.

[00:28:15]>> Okay. So listeners we are going to before we talk about Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman I bring up luxury pet goods [laughter] because that speaks to the Willy Loman in me, okay?

[00:28:28]>> Yeah.

[00:28:29]>> And you know but you're a salesman at heart. I have I have Willy Loman like tendencies in me.

[00:28:34]>> [laughter] >> Um >> You love brands.

[00:28:37]>> Uh dude I >> the myth of America.

[00:28:39]>> I full on dude. I am I'm the embodiment of the American dream.

[00:28:43]>> Yes.

[00:28:44]>> And >> working out much like >> [laughter] >> the great literature.

[00:28:47]>> I I met someone at a party and they were telling me how um they have a friend who's starting like a luxury pet vitamin company.

[00:28:55]>> Mhm.

[00:28:56]>> And >> And you shot them in the face?

[00:28:58]>> No, but they said it's like an incredible segment and a lot of VCs and PEs are like going into this segment because >> How do you even know if your dog is has B12 deficiency?

[00:29:09]>> said that's why it's so great because it's evil and sinister, but it the logic makes sense then. They were telling me how childbirth rates are on the decline.

[00:29:20]More people are getting buying dogs or buying pets and it's becoming more normalized to like like project your own behaviors onto your pet.

[00:29:30]>> Right.

[00:29:31]>> And then there's fewer regulations. So there's no like FDA approval for these supplements.

[00:29:38]>> Why worry about that?

[00:29:38]>> And then the dog can't communicate to you. It can't tell you if something's not working.

[00:29:42]>> Yeah.

[00:29:42]>> So if like sunscreen like if we have sunscreen that doesn't work like you can write a sternly worded email to the brand, but >> Yeah, how can you tell?

[00:29:49]>> Exactly.

[00:29:50]>> It's the retinol serum.

[00:29:52]>> So I've been thinking I've been thinking about >> [laughter] >> pet supplements.

[00:29:56]>> Oh my god.

[00:29:57]Nootropics. We need nootropics right for dogs. No, I think that's good. I think it's important to prey on the unbridled neuroses and anxieties of the growing pet owning population.

[00:30:09][clears throat] >> Mhm.

[00:30:11]>> And and first you have to create a market by convincing them they're bad people for not giving them giving their dogs vitamins, not spending more on dog health care than they do on themselves.

[00:30:25]So you should I support it. I think Middlebrow should have a Should we do like a >> Middlebrow. Middlebrow? [clears throat] >> Middlebrow chow.

[00:30:32]>> Middlebrow chow.

[00:30:33]>> Yeah.

[00:30:34]>> [gasps] >> Anyways, no, that's bad. I think it's [ __ ] up. It's really exploitative. I don't condone it. I don't endorse that industry. [clears throat] >> schnauzer needs some some vitamin C.

[00:30:44]>> [ __ ] your friend of a farmer. [ __ ] your pet your fragrance. It's all bad.

[00:30:49]>> scamming dog people. I think um >> Well, you hate dogs, which is psychotic of you.

[00:30:54]>> their [ __ ] >> It is just you that's like the one glaring flaw in your personality that you have.

[00:30:59]>> I'm fine with dogs. It's dog owners who I who I find have gone out of control.

[00:31:05]Anyways, so what kind of dog what's your dog brand?

[00:31:07]>> I don't want to talk about dog brands anymore.

[00:31:09]>> [laughter] >> No, I'm just saying like I as I was listening to Neruda steel, I was thinking about luxury dog goods. I was like damn, this is like >> This is where your head's at during our podcast.

[00:31:19]>> [laughter] [gasps] >> Anyways, we're going to talk about Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman.

[00:31:24]>> Yes, we saw it last night.

[00:31:26]>> We saw it last night.

[00:31:27]>> Thanks to Mary Neely who's in the play and and will be a guest in our podcast.

[00:31:31]>> Shout out.

[00:31:32]>> Got us great seats.

[00:31:34]>> Amazing seats.

[00:31:36]Amazing cast. Nathan Lane.

[00:31:40]Laurie Metcalf. Christopher Abbott. Ben Ahlers.

[00:31:44]>> Yeah.

[00:31:46]>> Killer Stan.

[00:31:47]>> You had never read nor seen >> No.

[00:31:51]>> Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman.

[00:31:52]>> I read it my freshman year of high school.

[00:31:55]>> Now, that's when I read it too, I think around then. What a crazy book a play we give to high school students by the way.

[00:32:01]>> this way about a lot of literature that we were assigned in high school because I [ __ ] loved this play by the way.

[00:32:08]Like >> I mean it's devastating. It's among the most devas like I went to Lee and yeah.

[00:32:14]>> Well, so we'll unpack it more but just as like a little sidebar, I did not have the emotional capacity nor the patience to really appreciate the the message of this play as a 15-year-old Dan. And now I'm like now I want to revisit all of those classics because what I was assigned Jane Eyre in high school or Pride and Prejudice, Dostoevsky?

[00:32:40]I was too busy like trying to like figure out how to like make out with someone and like sneak around and smoke cigs. Like my mind was my mind was like >> Yeah, you were not receptive you were receptive [laughter] to a multi-generational um excavation of toxic masculinity and the death of the American dream. That's not what you were trying to do.

[00:33:02]>> No, back then I was like which I mean this feels so >> to be like how many in the stink? One in the stink? Two in How I always forget how many in the stink.

[00:33:13]>> [gasps and laughter] >> Dude, this feels like so archaic for me to say but back then I was like it was about like going on SparkNotes >> Yeah.

[00:33:20]>> an hour before your discussion section and then or or like trying to integrate that into an essay but make it sound like you you had written it so it can like bypass some cheating checker, you know.

[00:33:31]>> Yeah, you were doing pre-AI.

[00:33:33]>> [laughter] >> You were working hard to lie.

[00:33:36]Yeah, now you in your mid-30s watching this you're crying.

[00:33:40]>> Dude.

[00:33:40]>> Do you want to do like a I mean this is funny cuz like it is the probably the one of the most famous plays if you have not >> seen it or read it >> you should you should do that. It was written in 1949 by Arthur Miller. 1949 by the way, I think the the average year of the people in the audience's birth date.

[00:34:00]>> [laughter] >> We were [gasps] we were really we were really bringing the average age down. It was a lot of Joe Bidens >> Yeah.

[00:34:07]>> in in the crowd.

[00:34:08]>> Yeah.

[00:34:09]>> Um and it is a it is about Willy Loman and and his wife and his two sons and he's a you know, failed I would say salesman and they're in in poverty and he his sons Biff and Happy are also kind of lost in their own way, especially Biff who was had such potential in these kind of flashbacks that we see to be great and we we see the kind of ins the slow deterioration of this guy who's realizing his whole life has been a failure and that he has nothing to show for it and and his and he projected the same sort of delusions of grandeur and importance that he had for himself on his sons and in a way cursed them.

[00:35:04]>> Dude.

[00:35:04]>> Um >> It is >> And it's brutal.

[00:35:06]>> I can't believe it was written in 1949.

[00:35:10]>> It yeah.

[00:35:10]>> Timeless. It's so pertinent to today, you know?

[00:35:15]It touches on the falsehood of like the American dream, capitalism, toxic masculinity, unrealized unrealized expectations, father-son dynamics.

[00:35:26]>> Yeah.

[00:35:26]>> There was not and you stressed big age gap between us and everyone else in the audience.

[00:35:35]>> Yeah.

[00:35:36]>> Not a Not a single dry eye in the theater.

[00:35:39]>> Dude, it >> I I think I leaned on on this elderly man next to me. I was just like, "Oh my [ __ ] god, dude."

[00:35:45]>> During the second act, I mean it's 3 hours and it like it flies. The cast is so is like truly amazing and and gut-wrenching.

[00:35:55]And yeah, there's there's like there's certain scenes in the second act where it like characters are arguing and it's so intense that you're just like, "I want to pause this. Like I need a I need a break."

[00:36:06]You know, and anyone who's got some daddy issues, this this play is going to inflame them. As someone who has a an extremely toxically masculine machismo father who's incapable of admitting he's wrong, incapable of working with others, and like a mother who unfailingly supports him despite him being an ass.

[00:36:28]>> moments like >> This is this is >> Especially the interactions with Biff and Willy, where it's almost as if like Arthur Miller had like a recorder in my home [laughter] and then just ripped that dialogue and then put it straight into this play, dude.

[00:36:43]Ah, I don't know, man. This This play was This was so [ __ ] heavy, dude.

[00:36:48]>> Yes.

[00:36:49]>> And I'm flying back home later today.

[00:36:51]>> Well, also like what he what Yeah, get get ready.

[00:36:55]>> [laughter] >> Get ready.

[00:36:57]>> Like I saw so much of myself in Biff. I saw so much of myself in Willy Loman and I'm like I'm such a slave to the American dream, dude.

[00:37:05]>> And and there's so many people I think I I And it's just It's just interesting how like back then, you know, the dream was I like sales and branding and and starting your own business. That was really exciting and that was what was sold as opportunity. And now it's like it's the same, but it's like crypto and Cal Shea and like drop shipping. You It's just morphed into other like you know, MLMs. Like This is the new way that like you can make it. You can hustle. That spirit is completely still present. It's just like morphed into a different >> industry or a different sector, yeah.

[00:37:38]>> Yeah, but that's still like even though most of the people who go into it will fail, will be bankrupt, they should not go into this scam, but there's always the hope of like you know, he keeps talking The Death of a Salesman is actually I obviously famously he dies, but like he talks about this great salesman that he met who had a who had a a funeral where everyone came. Yeah, who even knows honestly if it's true.

[00:38:00]>> Yeah.

[00:38:00]>> But like we always look at the few people who succeed in America and think like oh, that can be me. I can do that.

[00:38:07]Um, even though you know, actually most of us will never will never even reach close to that.

[00:38:13]Most of us don't have the personality for it. The um, you know, he's obsessed with being likable. You know, it's like you're well-liked. Like that's all about who you know.

[00:38:22]>> Yeah, that's all that matters in America, not like character, not, you know, doing what you maybe you're naturally good at. And I feel like we're having the same conversations now, where it's like people should actually maybe they don't need to go to college.

[00:38:34]Maybe they don't need to learn how to code. Maybe they're actually like you know, this dream that we have where everyone can just be like a a billionaire startup founder.

[00:38:42]And actually most people should just like have a good dignified living and we should value everything else as much. Um So >> I mean Willy Loman >> We're going to keep trying to be podcasters [laughter] after that.

[00:38:56]>> I know.

[00:38:57]I mean Willy Loman is like like Donald That's like Donald Trump's rhetoric. But he Trump is getting everything that he wants. [laughter] >> Yes. Yeah, and Trump is the example of the succeeds. He is the ultimate salesman.

[00:39:08]>> Like the self-mythologizing. It's It's everything, yeah.

[00:39:11]>> And like and he and he also convinces everyone else of his reality. Like you enter his like warp >> Right.

[00:39:17]>> you know, yeah, it is. I know I don't know if it was the Trump stuff was like overt, but it's definitely hard not to sort of think about that. It's just interesting like oh, this is what happens when that character like fails and it's the [ __ ] saddest thing. But actually you really have very start to have very little sympathy for Willy Loman. I don't know, he's like >> Yeah, I I mean personally, I can still empathize with his frustrations and the this and his delusions.

[00:39:45]>> Yeah.

[00:39:46]>> Like I'd be lying if I didn't say that I like carried some aspects of that. I see it in I saw it in my parents who like came to America with no money and like did realize the American dream.

[00:39:58]So then now I'm like well I can do it. I can do the same thing.

[00:40:02]>> Well, when I talked to my dad, I still have the same like I still find myself like I don't know, yeah, I don't feel like I need I have like detached myself from his his approval in many ways, but I still find myself like oh, I have to say like how much how much money I made on this deal, you know, right? This opportunity. And because I I you still want that like approval and and you buy into their worldview >> Right.

[00:40:24]>> when um when they're when you're with them. And you could still feel and that's like the tragedy of Biff is like he's >> Oh.

[00:40:31]>> still >> Dude.

[00:40:32]>> um And yeah, >> [laughter] >> it's funny that we're talking about a play from 1949 that feels like we've seen so many new plays that have been written that like >> the way, I have a new found admiration for uh playwrights today now because if I again, I did not pay attention in English class, but if I was an aspiring playwright and I saw this and read it, I'd be like, all right.

[00:40:57]I'm going to pack it up. What's the [ __ ] point?

[00:40:59]>> Yeah.

[00:41:00]>> [laughter] >> I'm never going to create anything.

[00:41:03]>> And it doesn't feel like it feels like way more or I mean, I guess obviously cuz it has contemporary actors and a new staging, but compared to like movies from the '40s, it still feels insanely insanely urgent.

[00:41:16]>> Yeah.

[00:41:16]>> Yeah, I don't know like it doesn't There's like one line in this play feels more like gut-wrenching than than entire, you know, entire productions I've seen of newer newer plays that that just feel kind of limp and flaccid compared to it. So, go see Death of a Salesman.

[00:41:34]>> Shout out.

[00:41:35]>> Scott Rudin.

[00:41:36]>> Scott Rudin.

[00:41:37]>> By the way, he's got that fastball.

[00:41:38]>> But yeah, he's still got that right hook, very literally.

[00:41:42]>> [laughter] >> That uppercut.

[00:41:44]>> I guess he's back. I mean, he and Barry Diller produced this.

[00:41:48]>> Yeah, I guess so.

[00:41:49]>> Yeah. Dude. Stage design was amazing. So super sick. It was like in this like industrial It kind of reminded me of like a like a Berlin warehouse.

[00:41:59]>> a deteriorated >> Yeah.

[00:42:01]>> like decay. Like you felt the whole time they're on this decayed warehouse and you feel and the and the Chevy, the car, which is like his car that he had to sell, I think.

[00:42:13]>> Yeah.

[00:42:13]>> Um is like just stares at you the whole play. It's like a reminder. Like, you know? And it keeps breaking down. Like, he keeps Yeah, that was the that's the I feel like we're in an English freshman year English class. But, he's like he's like all you know, he buys this car and this refrigerator. He wants all these things that like symbolize, you know, status. And they keep breaking down and keeps having to repair them and fix them and um and you feel like he's he's always you mortgaging his life to to pay for the American dream, which he >> Yeah.

[00:42:43]>> only gets when he dies and they finally repays the house. It's [ __ ] brutal, dude.

[00:42:48]>> Brutal brutal play.

[00:42:51]Yeah, I just keep thinking like Christopher Christopher Abbott's final monologue where he like confronts his dad.

[00:42:58]>> Yeah.

[00:42:58]>> About like not just not not being able to accept him for who he is. Ugh, [ __ ] It's too much, dude.

[00:43:04]That's too It's too much.

[00:43:06]>> It's a It's It's a lot. It's Yeah, it's You almost like I was almost like >> But, the thing is like clearly seeing how emotionally moved everyone was in the theater.

[00:43:17]No matter who you are, may is this just our destiny as humans?

[00:43:21]Like >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I think we will There will just be constant disappointment between generations and expectations between you and your children.

[00:43:29]>> Ugh.

[00:43:30]>> Ugh.

[00:43:31]So, >> You wrote here, how come phones still be going off [laughter] in 2019? What is this?

[00:43:35]>> I mean, like four phones went off during the [ __ ] play.

[00:43:38]>> No, the audience was like >> 80 years old, dude.

[00:43:40]>> I know, but it's been 25 years of phones. Like, at what point I I I I don't even know. I don't think my phone has rang in 10 years.

[00:43:49]>> Maybe their children who are supposed to teach them how to silence their phones have cut them off and set boundaries.

[00:43:54]You got to let me go. I'm I'm nothing.

[00:43:58]Just death thing makes me >> [laughter] >> I just don't get it. I don't understand how it's possible.

[00:44:04]I don't I don't know how they're able to They could If they can fall for scams, you know, from uh from random people telling them they they owe money to the government or something, then they should be able to silence their phone. Maybe that's why.

[00:44:18]Maybe that's why they fall for scams.

[00:44:19]>> be an exercise in empathy, then. First, just empathize that maybe these elderly patrons are, you know, they don't really know how the iPhone 17 >> is about them a thousand font where one letter appears >> mean to. Maybe they were in a rush. They forgot their medication and they didn't have the time to Start with there and then and then maybe you'll be able to find the the the empathy to see the value in New York or nowhere.

[00:44:48]>> Yeah.

[00:44:48]>> And you can write a nicely worded message to the founder [laughter] of the >> to find the way to do it with him.

[00:44:53]What do you think of the flashbacks?

[00:44:55]>> Oh, I loved it. I liked it. You didn't like it?

[00:44:57]>> I thought that was the one thing that felt a little dated to me. I don't know if that was the staging of the play, but there's like this You're going to fail your math test, you know, there was like a like that >> So the play incorporated a lot of these like flashbacks to show like the memories of Willy Loman.

[00:45:15]>> Yes, cuz he's deteriorating and also like what went wrong. Like, you know >> He's like replaying in his mind like what I should Yeah.

[00:45:22]>> Yes, and there's a lot of like there's a lot of that's a that lays it on a little thick, I would say in the flashbacks. And maybe that's you know, modern art that was exciting in 1949 the the you know, the cycle >> SparkNotes. So I appreciated the hand-holding.

[00:45:37]>> [laughter] >> You You're like this is a little thick.

[00:45:39]I'm like, yes, I like this.

[00:45:41]>> I need to know. I need to know.

[00:45:43]He didn't He didn't [laughter] take the test. His father told him not to take the test cuz he did not need to. He was a star football player.

[00:45:51]>> [laughter] >> Oh, yes. Yes. Okay, so this is why he's [ __ ] up because he walked in on his father having an affair. Yes.

[00:45:58]>> [gasps] >> Okay.

[00:46:00]We we've consumed a lot of art, Dan. We watched Olivia Wilde's The Invitation.

[00:46:05]>> Mhm.

[00:46:05]>> What did you think of this?

[00:46:07]>> It was the best Woody Allen movie I've seen in in 20 years, I would say.

[00:46:12]>> I can't tell if that's a compliment or are you saying that in a pejorative sense?

[00:46:15]>> No, I [laughter] like Woody Allen movies.

[00:46:18]But everything about it, like even from the literally the font of the movie and Penelope Cruz >> Yeah.

[00:46:24]>> Um, there's a um, yeah, and the premise, you know, >> for our listeners >> The movie ends with, you know, with like a couple of people getting jazz.

[00:46:32]>> this to our listeners. Okay, so >> like I liked it a lot. I liked >> Our listeners, uh, The Invitation is a new film by Olivia Wilde. Did A24 distribute this?

[00:46:42]>> Yes, it feels A24.

[00:46:43]>> written by Rashida Jones.

[00:46:45]>> Yeah, and co-written with Rashida Jones.

[00:46:47]>> Yes, which I didn't I didn't know she was writing movies.

[00:46:49]>> Of course, Rashida Jones.

[00:46:51]Harvard pedigree. Don't miss.

[00:46:54]>> Um, so this film stars two couples.

[00:46:56]Olivia Wilde and Seth Rogen are a married couple and then you have Edward Norton and Penelope Cruz who are another married couple. And they all live in the same building and uh, Seth Rogen is this like cynical, bumbling, like >> By the way, kind of Willy Loman also in that he is feels like a failure in his career.

[00:47:19]>> Yeah, he was like a failed musician.

[00:47:21]>> And he takes it out on his wife. He basically like has allowed his self-hatred to fester and rot his relationship.

[00:47:30]>> And Olivia Wilde plays this very um, neurotic, uh, what does she do in the movie? I mean, she's very into interior, she's an interior designer.

[00:47:40]>> but it seems like she doesn't work and she puts all her energy like >> Into interior design.

[00:47:44]>> home.

[00:47:45]>> And and doesn't feel seen or validated by her partner. And >> It feels very play-like. This It all takes place in the apartment.

[00:47:52]>> And they invite Edward Norton and Penelope Cruz's character over for a dinner party, and then uh hijinks ensue.

[00:48:00]>> Yes.

[00:48:00]>> Yeah. Which exposes like the the cracks in both of their uh respective relationships. And Olivia Wilde She's got that fastball. Got that heater.

[00:48:13]I thought she was a much better director than she was uh >> I thought it was fantastic. I thought >> I thought her character was the only character that felt like too >> a little too much >> caricature. Like she started up here and like insanely and it and it and she was and I didn't understand fully like why she was so anxious, so neurotic. And she kind of didn't have anywhere to go.

[00:48:35]>> Mhm.

[00:48:35]>> Um which might be a the screenplay thing as opposed to performance. But I thought the it was the movie looked great. Um and like I was not bored at all, you know, during >> Because this film is an adaptation of a Spanish film.

[00:48:50]>> Oh, really? I didn't know that.

[00:48:51]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it's an English-language remake of a Spanish film called The People Upstairs.

[00:48:57]>> Well, Penelope Cruz love doing She also was in the Vanilla Sky.

[00:49:02]>> Was Vanilla Sky a remake?

[00:49:03]>> It's a remake of a Spanish film which she was in. She played the same character in each one.

[00:49:07]>> Wow, what a throwback. Have not seen Vanilla Sky, but >> Amazing movie. I've no I don't really know what the message of that movie is, but it's has a >> The trailer was like a very >> It's like you're It's like what happened like when is it like the worst thing that can happen to you is you're not hot anymore.

[00:49:22]>> Who's in Vanilla Sky? Is Cameron Diaz?

[00:49:24]>> Cameron Diaz and Tom Cruise.

[00:49:25]>> Vanilla Sky was like a very sexually like formative m- It has like a very It's like a very sexually formative for me.

[00:49:33]>> your [ __ ] That means something.

[00:49:35]>> in the trailer there's like a there there's a shot of like uh Cameron Diaz topless.

[00:49:41]>> Oh.

[00:49:41]>> So, I haven't seen the film, but I >> You've never seen the movie?

[00:49:44]>> No, but I just simply remember being like a teen a preteen or a teen being like, "This movie's so >> Literally the moral of that movie is like >> see this movie.

[00:49:51]>> [laughter] >> is like [ __ ] are crazy and it's very sad when you're not as hot as you are.

[00:49:56]>> Oh my god. So it's a terrible message.

[00:49:58]>> Yeah, but the vibes are amazing.

[00:50:01]>> I would say that this is like Seth Rogen's incredible in this.

[00:50:04]>> Yeah, he's really really good and like super funny.

[00:50:07]>> Dude, Seth Rogen's like the the woker he's becoming Was that always just [laughter] talking about how he like doesn't work with James Franco?

[00:50:16]>> Yeah, and like you should be you should expect your car to be broken into. I think he said something like that if you live in LA. Like yeah, it's LA. Like your car should get broken into. You live in a big city.

[00:50:25]>> Dude.

[00:50:26]>> [laughter] >> But I can't see his character being portrayed by anyone else.

[00:50:32]Amazing.

[00:50:33]>> Yeah.

[00:50:34]I wonder how much I know that I do they talked about how they like rehearsed a lot and they like formed they rewrote it together and formed the but they all they're all great. Edward Norton's great.

[00:50:46]>> Yeah, they were all really really good.

[00:50:47]>> I didn't love that it turned into an episode of couples therapy at the end.

[00:50:52]>> Oh, oh I see. Like at the end with like the big Penelope Cruz's monologue.

[00:50:57]>> Yeah, and and it's literally [laughter] like they're there and she is a sex therapist and then like she serves there's like 20 minutes where she's just like >> Let me tell you exactly what's wrong with you.

[00:51:05]>> Yeah, and that's like and I don't know.

[00:51:09]I had an issue with that and I also This is a spoiler so fast forward like I don't know, 2 minutes.

[00:51:16]>> Or just don't do the spoiler. You need the spoiler.

[00:51:19]>> I need the spoiler.

[00:51:19]>> [laughter] >> I didn't like that. Okay, so the whole thing is that Edward Norton and Penelope Cruz's characters are like swingers.

[00:51:27]>> Sexually progressive, yeah.

[00:51:28]>> Yeah, they they have orgies and like and they're very free and open and loving which is in >> They're they're your like prototypical Burning Man uh couple.

[00:51:37]>> Um and he was like a fireman, whatever.

[00:51:41]And Seth Rogen and Olivia Wilde are it's like a couple which is >> They're like they're anxious and neurotic. They should you know their relationship is at death's door. Like you just >> I I can't I can't help but laugh.

[00:51:54]>> every time one compliments the other they they turn the compliment into like an insult somehow.

[00:52:00]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:52:01]>> You know someone says I like your shirt you're like how come you never tell me that? You know it's just like it's brutal fighting dynamics um and they you can tell they really they really resent each other and you feel it and um but you know they're not having sex anymore and the um Edward Norton and Penelope Cruz are like um propositioning them >> Mhm, yeah.

[00:52:24]>> to sleep with them and uh join their their fun. Um but I think the movie is like a little is scared and they never um have sex. Or like like they're so close and they're about to and but and the movie is too scared to actually like fully go there and and like they're about to and then it's interrupted by some like hijinks and it goes wrong.

[00:52:50]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:52:50]>> And I I think a more bold movie would have been like let's actually like >> See them have sex in the follow-up.

[00:52:57]>> consequences of that. Let's go there and it's and it kind of chickens out a little bit. Um and I think a like I don't know like if like Luca Guadagnino was directing it or someone who's maybe like a little more like [ __ ] up or weird like would they actually take it further and this movie is a little too like it stays a little too cute in a way.

[00:53:18]>> Why? You just thought it was like too convenient and like all of it felt a bit contrived and how they like propped the the the like how the narrative moved forward.

[00:53:26]>> Yes.

[00:53:27]>> Ah, I see.

[00:53:29]>> Yeah, I thought they set up something so exciting and like oh wait they like this is actually going to happen. Like let's let's [ __ ] like go there. Let's you know let's be surprised. I I would have um I'm trying to think like who's a director who would have I don't know.

[00:53:43]Honestly, it feels like a European movie. It feels very American. And like if it was a European movie, if it was like Alfonso Cuarón or something like that, like they would have actually gone gone there and see and we would have seen what would happen.

[00:53:58]Um and uh yeah, and the movie kind of like it reached the edge and then it like U-turned. It's like, "No, we can't we can't do that. We have to just like >> Right. Turn into Esther Perel.

[00:54:10]>> I thought it was good I thought it was very funny overall.

[00:54:11]>> Yeah.

[00:54:12]>> Um and yeah, it's hard to have a one location >> Oh, so difficult.

[00:54:17]>> movie work. And that's >> Yeah, I was um when I left the theater, I immediately thought of like the feature ideas that I've had or the ones I'm working on and I'm just like mine's never going to get produced.

[00:54:29]There's way too many [ __ ] locations.

[00:54:31]There's an airplane. How am I going to charter an airplane?

[00:54:34]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Well, we also we saw Rupture >> Yeah.

[00:54:38]>> which is also like you can really if you have a great script, you can make a very compelling thing for not a lot of money.

[00:54:46]>> No, this was >> Um and it wasn't and that isn't should be inspiring.

[00:54:49]>> No, this was like this was this was extremely up my alley, you know, it's like an adult's dramedy set in one location and I think like the dialogue is all very it's very hyperrealistic and it reminded me a bit of the drama.

[00:55:03]>> Yeah, I I thought about them too. Well, first of all, they're both like these are movies that are mid-budget movies for adults that are about adult issues.

[00:55:12]>> Which which there seem to be like a there weren't many movies in that sort of zone until recently.

[00:55:20]And I think A24 has kind of carved out a a lane where Oh, cuz these movies feel >> by Google AI, but >> They feel like um like am I the [ __ ] Reddit.

[00:55:32]>> Sure.

[00:55:33]>> Where you'll just like take like a morally ambiguous like uh very adult plot line and then present it and so that way drums up discourse and you can have a conversation with your friends afterwards. Yeah.

[00:55:45]>> Yeah, but I'm just I just I don't know.

[00:55:47]I like movies that you know, if you think about the '70s or movies like Kramer vs. Kramer and Bob and Ted and Alice and Carol or whatever. Like movies that are for adults about adult themes that that you leave the theater and like there and even if the movie's not great like there's a conversation that you have with your friends, with your partner.

[00:56:10]That there's actually like meat there and it's not just a movie that spoon-feeds you, you know, the themes or it's not for most movies are like Marvel movies with kids themes.

[00:56:21]So that part is that part is exciting to me and I hope I don't know. I don't I don't know how it's doing.

[00:56:27]>> I think you everyone should see it. I think I have I have I have >> had kind of carved out that space a little bit with like Beef and White Lotus, you know?

[00:56:37]>> Oh, speaking of I we didn't touch on this, but Did you so I sent you this article that was published in Bloomberg? Bloomberg reported on this.

[00:56:45]Netflix is like in a big problem where all their viewers are abandoning television shows after one season. So like Beef for instance, there was a 70 70% drop in viewership from season 1 to season 2.

[00:56:58]>> mean, I didn't finish the second season.

[00:57:00]I watched like six episodes and then like I get it.

[00:57:02]>> Yeah, it's not for you. Yeah, I think that it's cuz they're taking too long they take too long between seasons.

[00:57:08]>> Yes, and because I think >> just feel like they're too long. They stretch out >> They're they're often taking movie premises, something that should have been a two-hour movie and they're making it like eight episodes.

[00:57:19]>> Right, right.

[00:57:20]>> And I don't know. I think I don't you feel that movies are back a little like the juice and the conversation with like obsession with the drama, with the odyssey.

[00:57:28]>> Yeah. Like I do feel >> like the conversation um in the in the arts and culture has rebalanced back to movies and that's where the juice is.

[00:57:41]Whereas it was television for like 10 years.

[00:57:43]>> I just think yeah.

[00:57:45]Maybe I also just think the way we consume media is different too. And I think a movie is closer to like a social media clip than like a multi-episode television season.

[00:57:57]>> Yes. What are the TV shows that are feel like people are >> Talking Taylor Sheridan's universe.

[00:58:02]>> Yeah, we're not living We're not living in it That's what Those are the biggest shows.

[00:58:06]>> [laughter] >> We're not living in it but yeah.

[00:58:08]>> Lib cuck world.

[00:58:10]>> [gasps] >> New York or nowhere. We don't know anything about those.

[00:58:13]>> No, no. Yeah. Oh, which by the way, Edward Norton who we thought was fantastic in uh in the invite. Dude, Edward Norton went to Yale, studied Japanese.

[00:58:23]>> He was that guy.

[00:58:25]>> He was that guy. He lived fluent in Japan and he reminds me exactly of this one dude I had in high school who also studied Japan White guy who also studied Japanese.

[00:58:35]>> [laughter] >> He does have that energy.

[00:58:36]>> Like academic Japan energy. He's a little bit of a weirdo.

[00:58:41]>> He's always always has a You seen Primal Fear? That was like his first movie.

[00:58:45]>> No, was he a weirdo in it?

[00:58:46]>> Richard Richard Gere. Yeah, he plays uh >> A little bit of a weirdo.

[00:58:49]>> Like an altar boy who is maybe molested and they're trying to figure out who killed uh who killed the priest. Richard Gere is the detective. That was like that was like break out role in Primal Fear.

[00:59:00]>> I'll check it out.

[00:59:01]So I got to see the altar boy and then I got to see and then listeners you have to see the invite.

[00:59:05]>> You got to see the invite.

[00:59:06]>> Did you see Don't Worry Darling? I didn't see Don't Worry Darling.

[00:59:08]>> I did not. I saw Booksmart and then >> I liked Booksmart too.

[00:59:10]>> Yeah.

[00:59:11]>> Yeah.

[00:59:12]Olivia Wilde thumbs up.

[00:59:13]>> Sad that you The only way they let women direct movies is if they're like big actresses first.

[00:59:18]>> [laughter] >> Unfortunately.

[00:59:20]>> It's sad.

[00:59:20]>> But uh yeah, glad she's finding her niche.

[00:59:22]>> I want to see Blue Bayou.

[00:59:24]Sophia Lillis and Mamoudou Athie.

[00:59:26]>> seen it yet.

[00:59:27]>> Yeah, I haven't seen it. We should see it. Amy Schumer's in it. She's a comedian.

[00:59:29]>> Bunch of [ __ ] coming out.

[00:59:30]>> Yeah, good stuff. Should we wrap this up, Dan?

[00:59:33]>> I think I think in fact we should. You have a You have a flight to catch.

[00:59:37]>> I'm going to El Paso, Texas.

[00:59:38]>> Are there any games in El Paso? Any World Cup games?

[00:59:43]>> Dude.

[00:59:44][ __ ] why did you Could not be worse timing to see Death of a Salesman.

[00:59:49]>> [laughter] >> Like truly truly >> Yes.

[00:59:54]>> truly >> I'm glad I I we triggered your daddy issues just in time.

[01:00:00]>> But my dad isn't just like That's the thing. Like he's not just Willy Loman.

[01:00:07]There's like elements of Yeah, he's [snorts] like an he's an amalgamate. He's >> That's what great art is.

[01:00:12]>> He's an amalgamation of a lot of these characters. But I do I do relate a lot to Biff's um plight.

[01:00:20]>> Could have been It is interesting that like the the Death of a Salesman and Gat and Great Gatsby, which are the things I feel like the books and and plays they make you read in high school are both just Cuz people say that high school is like America's propaganda and I feel like those works are just like pure the American dream is poisoned and rotted and a lie.

[01:00:38]Um and maybe you're just like do you just don't pick up on it when you're in high school and you just you know, you like Gatsby's like lifestyle um or something but I don't know those to me those to me are the iconic iconic works.

[01:00:54]Bye everybody.

[01:00:55]>> Bye.

[01:00:56]>> Patrion for Citizen Vigilante breakdown.

[01:00:58][clears throat] >> I can't believe we're going to watch that.

[01:01:01]>> visiting.

[01:01:02]>> I said thanks for watching.

[01:01:03]>> Oh, okay.

[01:01:03]>> Thanks for listening. Okay, bye everyone.

[01:01:06]>> Okay, that was Middle Brow.

[01:01:10]>> [music] [music]