KAUFMAN IS OUT OF HIS MIND

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-23

[00:00:00]I honestly don't know if this is clickbait, but if it is, well then bait me. Not with a Scottish accent. We debated the biggest controversies in language learning. I mean, you know, as a very controversial man, Juie and Steve Koffman, Lingo Steve. Oh, that's in combination. It's a combination channel.

[00:00:17]I didn't even know it existed. All right. So, I've seen her around, by the way, for Chinese, I believe. Was it Chinese learning videos and whatnot? But without further ado, let's see who do I agree with. So some one criteria is that it should have a standardized writing system for it to be a fullyfledged language >> according to whom >> that is some linguist believe that >> Shanghai is a language Shanghai i.e. you know, but to me they're different languages. They're sufficiently different. Uh although >> but is that based on is that based on just hearing them mutual intelligibility or lack thereof? It's a bit gray though because what is the like it's a sliding scale of intelligibility?

[00:00:54]>> It is.

[00:00:54]>> So So when do we draw the line like this is a language now?

[00:00:59]>> Good question of social linguistics really rather than linguistics alone.

[00:01:02]But hey, >> people get pretty divided whenever the topic language learning comes up. So that's why I brought on Steve Kaufman.

[00:01:11]He is a polyglot and the co-founder of link the >> Come on now. Come on now. I don't appreciate to hear swear words. I'm a man of class. Let's be classy. Okay, let's be classy. Polyglot. It's a bad word.

[00:01:24]>> Sponsor of today's video. Steve is someone who has spent decades learning foreign languages and thinking about what works best. We went through a series of topics in language learning and linguistics that tend to garner some pretty strong opinions. And trust me, we did not mince words with our opinions.

[00:01:41]So, buckle up. Here we go.

[00:01:43]>> Splendid.

[00:01:44]>> So, I brought you here today, Steve, to do something just like a little bit different. Um, basically, we're going to go through a series of topics that can garner strong opinions in the language learning and linguistics communities.

[00:01:58]And so what we're going to do is I'm just going to say, you know, a statement and then we're both going to say whether we, you know, agree, disagree. The one who has, you know, >> all of us, I'll do it too.

[00:02:09]>> Stronger opinion can go first and then, you know, we'll just have like a little bit of a conversation after that. Is that okay?

[00:02:16]>> Sure.

[00:02:16]>> Okay. So, let's start with uh our first statement.

[00:02:21]>> Any adult can learn a second language to native like fluency. to native like fluency. No, not any adult. To native like you have to have a lot of dedication, a lot of time and personally exceptional talent if native like fluency is because that's the highest possible. That's what I think. Some can others can get really close but exactly to native like as per the prompt then no not any adult can do that.

[00:02:53]>> Yeah. I I'm going to disagree. Okay, cool.

[00:02:56]>> So, I'm going to say I slightly disagree.

[00:02:59]>> Um, so less less than the disagree you said. So, if you you seem like have a strong opinion on this, maybe you can go first.

[00:03:06]>> Let's go.

[00:03:06]>> The vast va well to a level a native level like I have heard people speak foreign languages >> extremely well.

[00:03:15]>> Yeah.

[00:03:16]>> Say English >> and they think they sound like a native.

[00:03:19]There's always something that gives them up gives them away, right?

[00:03:22]>> Not always. There are some people that can do it. There are people that are really close and then there are people that objectively I've met a few completely would have fooled me even in my own native language. So I think it's highly unrealistic for most people to think they can achieve a native level. I just think it's it's it's a valid goal to achieve for you know I'd like to play golf like Tiger Woods.

[00:03:47]>> I'm highly unlikely to do that. Not like impossible >> actually about that. Do you think it actually might be kind of detrimental to strive to sound like a native? You know, >> that's actually a very good point. It depends on the person. I'll let them speak first and then I'll tell you what I think. Oh, >> in the way that it if if it's impossible uh physiologically or you know um the the vocabulary just can't be met.

[00:04:12]>> My goal is to be like I don't know like Tiger Woods. Is that detrimental to the learner you think?

[00:04:19]>> No. I think it's a good thing to strive for, but you have to recognize that the native speaker, when we learn languages, we are basically becoming familiar with patterns. We're creating these webs of connections in our brain. And the native speaker who has heard since childhood, >> you know, thousands of hours, has read millions of words, like the enormous amount of input, there is no way that the the adult who starts into learning at age 20 will ever consume as much of the language as the native speaker. So they will never be quite as good, but they can get very very close.

[00:04:53]>> Exactly. I think the problem here is a little bit with the prompt. Not the problem, but the prompt as it's written makes it so that we have to kind of reject it because it says any adult and then it says to native like fluency. But if you adjust it a little bit and you say some talented adults and then to almost native like or functionally virtually native like right if you put virtually means it might not be exactly but it's pretty much indistinguishable then yes it can happen it's the number of hours that is the difference between a native speaker and a learner because if it's number of hours maybe you know that could be imp like that could be uh build up over time like let's say a native speaker spoke is is only 18 years old, right? And they can't have had that many hours than someone who's >> uh 18 and then is starting to learn.

[00:05:43]>> They can have that many hours because that's all they do. That's their language. So yes, if you calculate the number of hours that an 18year-old is native of their own language have have used the language in fact used that's even superior level of hours as opposed to onetoone matching with a L2 second language learner acquisition student because then a lot of those hours are not going to be direct utilization within the immersive context into which all you do is think, eat, talk, argue in the language. anguage. So, no. Yeah, >> their language and then they learn it until the age of 80, right? It's possible that the 80-year-old in those what like 80 minus 18 what is that 62 years might have had more input hours compared to the 18-year-old native >> qualitatively no >> speaker. So, in terms of hours, you know, I just want to challenge you on that. Right.

[00:06:39]>> Maybe maybe if if if the native speaker is a hermit or something, but native speaker. So, there are a number of issues. First of all, when we are very very young, our brains are more flexible. So when a person is born, they conceivably could learn to speak any language. The brain is not yet, >> you know, hardened, coalesed around any particular language. So there is that period until maybe we're 12, I don't know. There's varying degrees of some people say 16, 17 where the brain is very malleable, very >> right. Yes. I mean it depends which one you're talking about. again acquiring native to be a native I think the window is much smaller like the first 3 years of life it depends in fact on whether or not we're talking pronunciation vocabulary understanding fluency the syntax acquisition all of these in fact degrade at different paces that's the reality of what the research shows to be 100% native I think it's within the first 3 years but let me know if you guys agree >> flexible if the objective is to be completely mistaken for a native You can be better than the native in vocabulary.

[00:07:44]You can be better than the native in choice of words, in eloquence, in any number of things.

[00:07:49]>> That's true. Yeah. If it's like a very an uneducated native, >> but to be mistaken for a native, like not just for 2 minutes, but for 30 minutes, >> very difficult. That's all.

[00:08:00]>> It is difficult.

[00:08:00]>> Okay. So, that that justifies your disagree on that, right?

[00:08:03]>> Yeah. And I appreciate that he said very difficult, but it did not say impossible. his example where he did say impossible which had to do with playing golf I believe. I don't know who the person mentioned was but I imagine it was like some kind of athlete sports person extremely excellent. Uh yeah of course it's it would be impossible for him because I mean he's an old man he hasn't trained in it. It's like it becomes impossible and of course he's putting himself but with language learning you know again it also depends when you start. The older you start, the le less likely it's going to be for you to try to become native.

[00:08:37]You become monumentally less less and less likely because you solidified those patterns just like you say. But if you start young, even in your 20ies, in fact, depending on the person, but in general, the younger the better.

[00:08:47]>> Yeah.

[00:08:47]>> Even though you think it's slightly, you know, maybe one tenth of a tenth of a percent of people might >> Yeah, sure.

[00:08:54]>> you know, get close.

[00:08:55]>> Yeah, I agree.

[00:08:57]>> Maybe.

[00:08:57]>> Well, you can remove the maybe. There are people that get I've met them. Like I have met someone from like America. If we spoke on the phone for an hour, I would have thought he was a native Italian from the north. This happened.

[00:09:08]Very rare, but it does happen. I've met people that sounded, for instance, someone like Matt versus Japan or dog, and they sound extremely close to a native speaker in Japanese. Someone like Tashan sounds incredible in Mandarin.

[00:09:22]And there are people that are absolutely exceptional. I've met a couple of people from Scandinavia who sounded just like an American would. So, it does happen.

[00:09:31]It absolutely happened. I think the reason why in this case he's saying maybe is because well, he didn't. And I would say neither did I. Am I close? I guess you can tell. rather than if I had to self assess I would say probably it's my intonation that makes it clear that I'm not a native speaker rather than the single individual pronunciation of my core consonants and vowel clusters. I think if you take a single word and I pronounce it zero mountain dew sugar tuna YouTube box I think maybe I could fool someone but as I put them within and orchestrate them organically within a sentence then my intonation then doesn't sound like a native word and then you can tell okay yeah but he's not native there's something wrong I can tell that absolutely totally I get I would consider myself a fluent speaker in English, but not someone you would mistake for an actual true full-on native speaker. Am I close? Am I far from that possible objective? I'll let natives tell me.

[00:10:41]>> Maybe.

[00:10:42]>> Maybe.

[00:10:43]>> Okay. Okay. So, I think we mostly agree on this one. So, we can move forward to the next one.

[00:10:48]>> Okay.

[00:10:48]>> The second question, uh, speaking early is overrated in language learning.

[00:10:55]>> Completely disagree. You need to speak early.

[00:10:58]>> So, >> he says, "Yes." Well, me and you, Stephen, are going to go to war over this one. You've got to start speaking from day one.

[00:11:05]>> Early is not is overrated. Yes.

[00:11:07]>> For me, I would say I I disagree. I don't think it's overrated. So, I think here we have some point of uh disagreement here.

[00:11:14]>> Okay.

[00:11:15]>> Yes. Uh >> in order to have a meaningful conversation with people, you have to have some vocabulary. You have to have a certain level of comprehension.

[00:11:25]Otherwise, you're saying the same thing over and over again. Mind >> not necessarily. That's anecdotal. The the latter part that depends. I mean, you can easily build and prepare different sentences every week if you want, even every day. But I mean, every week if you want to give it time to actually solidify your memory. So, that's easily and I don't know why I said that. And when it comes to the first part, uh well, yes, but to build the vocabulary and grammar confidence, you have to speak. If you only listen, you will get good at listening. If you read and write, same thing. And since the majority of us want to be able to have an actual conversation whereby I speak my mind and I understand what you say back, you have to begin because I can write the word aluminum can a million times. But saying it, this is a can of whatever the heck. This is a packaging, a telephone, a mouse, keyboard. You acquire it and store it in memory when you use it. You have not to mention get your muscles in your mouth used to producing the sounds which connects them and creates an experience as well. No, you have to start from day one is what I say >> name is or other simple sentences. So no, I strongly believe that the focus should be on getting the language in you and then when you want to speak, when you are ready to speak or when you have the opportunity to speak, go for it and don't feel inhibited.

[00:12:56]>> Okay. So I heard you said Steve I'm going to >> before we hear what she says basically I guess he supports the uh comprehensible input idea and uh comprehensible input is fine but only as long as you connect it with production comprehensible input as it's usually understood meaning there is the learning curve and the memory and forgetful curve and then you just listen mon a lot get a lot of input low listening and that builds your ability it's nonsense it is something that someone who sits down and overthinks language learning would say, but do they actually speak it? That's the reality. And here is what I'm going to say. It's going to be a little controversial, but um ditching all the fake polygots for a moment. Even someone who is a language learner, real language learner, the reality is when they give you advice, you should ignore that advice unless they are exceptional at what they do. If they are mid-tier, ignore them. If they don't actually speak the language, hey, but I studied how to do it and I'm conf. No, ignore it. It's the same thing as, "Oh, you want to build muscle?" Take your shirt off. If I don't see a good strong body, I don't believe you. I don't believe it.

[00:14:11]That's how it is with fitness channels.

[00:14:13]That's why I always recording with the shirt off. It's not just a flex literally, but it's also to show you guys I did it. I did do it. And then I studied the science, the biology of it.

[00:14:24]And so now I'm giving you advice that works and I know it works because I did it. It's the same thing with language learning. So I personally don't care about the opin. You could think I'm rude but then again I'm annoyed more than rude by the people that give advice that doesn't work because I don't care what people think unless they actually reach a decent level either in at least one foreign language but if it's one it needs to be exceptional or in multiple languages and then we're talking then we're talking. push back on that a little bit. What if I put it this way?

[00:14:56]You know, like would you say it's a waste or not helpful to go to the gym even though you didn't didn't get trained in, you know, weightlifting or the specific ways to stretch your muscles or uh do you think it's a waste to go to the gym?

[00:15:10]>> Because I I kind of see it as as similar, right? Because I think the mouth is a muscle. I think we agree that >> practicing speaking in the you know the sounds of a language uh it really helps train the muscles to get there because as we know you know different languages have different mouth positions that they prefer >> and another thing is that we mentioned you mentioned that children you know they have their their brains are more flexible and part of it is actually they're they're not afraid of speaking but as an adult we have that inhibition.

[00:15:42]Wouldn't you agree that >> depending on the personality? So far I'm agreeing with her 100%. I think what Steve does sometimes while being a this is great part of this language learning community. Absolutely a very passionate individual but he uses a lot of anecdotal evidence and thinks it's the law basically. So he will give you he will imagine a scenario just like he did with flash cards and he was wrong. He imagines the scenario. It makes sense logically in his mind based on his own experience and then he uses it as this is how things are. But personally I find that unprofessional and unscientific.

[00:16:18]Real data not anecdotal but real data deeply studied from personal experience from a decade of teaching and seeing what other learners and professionals say about the matter. This is the main complaint that I have with Steve because for instance, he can tell you he speaks 40 languages, but then when I hear him speak Italian, it's not impressive. And and then again, maybe it's just because Italian wasn't the language he focused on. I'm sure his Japanese is better. But if you compare his Japanese to Matt versus Japan, a completely different level. So at that point, I'm more interested in what Matt versus Japan has to say. controversy or not or dogan for instance when it comes to that and simply because there is direct experience that produced exceptional results.

[00:17:05]>> The longer we wait to speak in a language we're learning the more kind of inhibited that we're going to be you know further down the line maybe 3 or 4 months after we start then we >> want to start speaking and it actually becomes more difficult because we haven't been training ourselves to do it from an earlier stage.

[00:17:22]>> Mhm. That's right. So, two points. So, one, uh, is it a waste of time to go to the gym? No. You go to the gym, you train, you're weak at first, let's say, if you haven't been doing anything and you gradually get stronger. Uh, however, uh, in order to produce a language, you have to have the language in you. So engaging with the language is because when you understand the language, the way the brain works, you're layering networks, webs of networks to much like a large language model, you're able to predict the next word. And as you've developed that ability to anticipate and to plan, then you start to be able to make utterances.

[00:18:00]>> That's the problem with this point. You develop it by doing, Steve. You develop it by doing.

[00:18:07]That's the missing link that I believe you're not understanding in this case.

[00:18:12]Attacking the argument, not the person.

[00:18:14]He's right. The generally speaking, what he's saying is correct. But then he thinks that this justifies, well, if you don't have the language in you, you need to spend like a year, two, whatever the heck he thinks, internalizing the language before you produce. And that's incorrect because to create that connection, those pathways in the brain, you have to use it. It's how we learn languages >> is in the language. And I think the idea of training your muscles, I mean, I can pronounce 20 languages quite well.

[00:18:42]>> I disagree, Steve. I'm sorry you don't.

[00:18:44]Guys, if you're as if you're a big fan of him, you're going to get annoyed by me. And fair enough. You can tell me we're met. Neither do you. I can tell I can tell your accent in English is not perfect. So, how dare you say, "Fine.

[00:18:56]No, I'll take it. It's fine. I understand. There is a lot that I need to improve." But honestly, his Chinese is not impressive. His Japanese has zero pitch knowledge. His Italian is no. Can you pronounce I think that's I'm sorry, Steve. Sounds a little arrogant. And also Matt versus Japan pronounces very well. Dogan pronounces very well. Dashan pronounced very well. I wouldn't butcher you in the ones that are that exceed a pronunciation in 20 languages. Come on, brother. Let's be let's be real about this. I have never been aware of having to do different things with my muscles.

[00:19:33]I I really don't think that's what the >> and the reason why you're not aware is because you don't pronounce right. It's Don Krueger effect. And you can tell by the way she's looking at him. By the way, I know what she's thinking. It's just that she's very polite differently from me. I'm like a I'm being a dog here. But hey, it is what it is. She's now thinking, I've heard you speak Mandarin. Uh and you don't pronounce it quite well.

[00:19:57]So, he's overconfident in this con situation. I'm going to call him out for it. People call me out all the time, by the way. Can I do it? So, he's overconfident. He thinks he can pronounce very well. And now he's saying, I never really needed to pay attention. Yeah, because you think you do, but you don't. And his pronunciation, like his Italian, is yeah, determines how well we pronounce.

[00:20:23]What determines how well we pronounce is more how well we hear. And if we hear the sounds correctly, >> both actually >> the the brain will find a way >> to produce them, >> the brain will find a way to compensate it actually and and then it's why you need professional correction if you want to sound as close to a native speaker as possible because otherwise what the brain does is that it I'll give you an example because I used to have this problem. You say sit limrich this tick tick and my Italian brain compensates and thinks you're saying sit lik tick if I don't professionally sit down and understand even though I'm hearing it what the brain is doing is approximating using my own native native matrix is it the end of the world that I'm gonna say pick instead of pick. Not necessarily. But then I'm not going to claim, hey, I speak and pronounce very well and my brain does it for me. No, it doesn't. My brain up because it was easier. This is the reality of it.

[00:21:32]And it took me some time to realize sit is a a sound. I don't have them that sound in my language. So, I have to understand how it's produced in order to improve my pronunciation if I so choose.

[00:21:45]No one is pointing the finger and telling you you have to sound as good as possible, but since this was one of the things and that's the thing, he thinks he sounds really really good, but he doesn't.

[00:21:55]>> It's not that you're training your mouth in certain, you know, physical things. I I don't agree with that. So, no, this >> we can tell. Yeah. Could you imagine doing Mandarin, Mongolian, Vietnamese without trying to understand and train your mouth and how to produce the sounds correctly? Could you even Yeah, this is why I disagree.

[00:22:18]>> I mean, it's it's physically it's true that you know uh not every every language has the same sounds, right?

[00:22:24]Some sounds in different languages exist but don't exist in others. So, for those ones, you actually do have to train your mouth to >> She's right >> uh be positioned in that way that >> she's right. You could you can freaking scoff and roll your eyes all you want, Steve. She is right and you are wrong. I don't care that he thinks it's because again, here is the thing. When she speaks English, she sounds really good, right? When you speak Mandarin, you don't. So, you got to listen to her.

[00:22:55]>> Produces that sound. Um, >> I don't agree with that. Yeah, I totally disagree with that. There are certain sounds in certain languages that are particularly difficult for people who aren't used to that language. So, the other point you raised about people are inhibited. Of course, they're inhibited.

[00:23:13]I am more inhibited if I >> I I don't understand his disagreement.

[00:23:16]By the way, she said there are some sounds that are present in one language, but they're not in another. This is a fact. This is a fact that you can't you could I guess you can disagree with that fact that we breathe oxygen doesn't change physical reality here. However, so look in Chinese there is the sound the distinction between sh and sh. It does not exist neither in English nor in Italian. So what are we even talking about? Not even mentioning the idea of adding tones as a phmic component.

[00:23:49]Pitches in Japanese which he hasn't got a clue about. So the the th sound that th and the doesn't exist in my language.

[00:23:58]So how are you disagreeing with that Steve is what I'm failing to understand.

[00:24:04]And at this point, you can be obtuse as much as you want, but then you got to prove it, right? Because she's saying, "No, that's how it is. You got to train your mouth, otherwise you can't sound well or not to mention native like." And then he says, "No, I never needed to do that. I speak really well for 20 languages." Well, freaking prove it.

[00:24:23]Switch to Mandarin. Speak whatever languages you have in common. I don't know how many languages he speaks.

[00:24:29]Switch to it and prove it. He doesn't do it because he would colossally fail.

[00:24:34]Although at this point I'm starting to think I'm starting to think that he think he actually thinks he could and he's just not doing it because whatever and that's how it is. I don't understand what the person is saying if I have very few words. So I feel much more confident using the language once I have a certain number of words in me that I understand level of comprehension enough hours.

[00:24:58]>> Okay, I'll push back on that then.

[00:24:59]>> Yeah. So what would that be then? Like the number you said you you want to have a certain amount of hours or certain amount of words in you. So do you have a uh you know a kind of rough estimate for what that >> She's brilliant by the way, man. Put him on the spot. Come on. What? Yeah. What do you got to say to that? Let's see.

[00:25:15]Let's see the number >> that would be before someone should start producing.

[00:25:19]>> Let's go.

[00:25:19]>> Uh speaking that language.

[00:25:21]>> Yeah. So if I look at my own experience at link learning say Farsy or Arabic or or Czech uh because we measure the number of words I know passive vocabulary if I have 3,000 4,000 words of passive vocabulary which and each form of the word is counted as a separate word. But when I have that level then I feel I could engage with an online tutor and I will be able to say something.

[00:25:45]>> You're out of your mind. 4,000 words. I don't even care how I don't even care that you are considering go, went, gone, up, down, every single one of them. You add a letter, you add a thing, you add a little conjugation, and this is all separate words, which is to me a useless way to count. I prefer to count in word family because otherwise you're just basically doing the how much do you bench bro of language learning? Who cares? Oh, I know 50,000 words. Well, great. And like 300 are like the same freaking word but with a little conjugation. Whatever. If you want to count it like that makes you feel better, that's fine. I don't care.

[00:26:18]Freedom at this point. First amendment of the Constitution. Here's the thing, though. 4,000, even if you count it this way, 4,000 words in your passive vocabulary before you open your mouth.

[00:26:29]I'm going to flip by the table. You're out of your mind. You're out of your mind.

[00:26:34]>> I will be able to understand something of what they say.

[00:26:37]>> Okay, that's that's a very uh you know, concrete way of thinking about it. you know, once I reach this level, then I can I should I should talk to someone for real. So, that's that's good advice for language learners, for sure.

[00:26:50]>> That's actually bad advice for a language learner, but she's so polite and nice. She's not going to say it.

[00:26:53]It's it's concrete. I I agree agree with that. At least he gave us a number. I wish he gave us a number of hours that he thinks he's like, "No, unless you put 3,000 hours of of of language learning, you should open your filthy mouth." I wish he said that. I wish he continued pushing. Now she's just being polite. I would not be polite. Maybe I shouldn't be in a conversation with this man because I don't know what to tell you.

[00:27:16]Talk about accent and pronunciation all you want. My Italian blood is still diluted pizza which equals tomato sauce plus spices.

[00:27:24]>> All right. Okay. So, let's move on to the next one. This one I think would be a little bit of a little bit of a disagreement here. So, AI is a good substitute for practicing with native speakers. And so I'm just going to jump in here and I'm going to say I I slightly agree on this one >> and you can give me your opinion, Steve.

[00:27:45]>> Steve, >> well, it's hard for me because I haven't used it very much. We do have that ability at Link and I have engaged with the AI and say I finished an interview and it was about Lebanon and I'll ask a question and uh it'll answer something.

[00:28:01]And so for me, it's all more content.

[00:28:03]It's it's more input. I do it to generate input. I'm not interested in having a conversation with AI. Um, >> man, this guy hates production. No wonder at this point he's lacking on some areas. Regardless, you can say 20 languages all you want, 50, 100 languages. I'll give you my opinion. AI is a good substitute for practicing with native speakers only when native speakers are not available. So, if native speakers are available, that's the better choice. That's the best option always. But say you don't know anyone, you don't have people to speak with and you still would like to have some sort of practice in production, in listening both, then I would say utilizing the advanced language models.

[00:28:45]I mean, at the end of the day, that's what they are. There's nothing wrong with it, and it can be pretty good. Just be careful with theoretical knowledge though. So, if you ask them, tell me the pitch or the Mandarin tone, they might f up or they might if if you ask them to teach you, they might tell you something that the native speakers don't actually say. wrong vocabulary, whatnot. But when it comes to I want to just say this and then they speak back and you speak back again, you could do it with I do it myself when I don't have anyone to speak with, I would practice a little bit because it's it's fine. And then you listen. Nothing wrong with it. It's not like the devil or anything or the uh black black plague of the Middle Ages bacterium.

[00:29:23]>> So is your is your answer disagree or what is your answer on this one?

[00:29:27]>> AI is a good substitute for native speakers.

[00:29:31]>> Not a substitute. So you would be you'd be a disagree on this one.

[00:29:34]>> Yeah. Thank you.

[00:29:35]>> Okay. So, uh >> I think in this case to kind of straw man him steel man is no sorry not strongman to kind steel man his argument because she's using the word substitute.

[00:29:46]So I think he means well if you can choose between a native speaker and AI you should go for native speaker. So I would agree with him on this if that's how he means it because at the end of the day he did say it was content right?

[00:29:56]He did say it was content. I'm curious to see what else we've got. Some languages are inherently easier to learn than others. I want to see this one. I'm curious about this one. Let's go.

[00:30:05]>> Next question. Um, some languages are inherently easier to learn than others.

[00:30:11]>> I did mispronounce inherently, didn't I?

[00:30:14]You muppets.

[00:30:16]>> And I have a very strong opinion on this. So, I'm going to go first. I'm going to say I strongly disagree.

[00:30:21]>> All right. Really?

[00:30:22]>> So, I agree.

[00:30:24]>> Well, with the I'm sorry, but I'm with Steve unless she manages to word it and phrase it in a way. Yeah, there when it comes to language learning, there is objective difficulty and subjective difficulty. Objective difficulty means that yeah, if a language is 21 letters and another one is 3,000 as a basis for alphabetization, then of course objectively that latter will be harder.

[00:30:46]But then this or same you can say about languages with cases or languages with grammar functions that are objectively harder just harder. Harder that's how it is. But then on top of it you have to consider subjective difficulty which is dependent on where you are coming from.

[00:31:03]So you are in fact the ultimate variable within language learning and I imagine she's going to go to that like if you're Italian Spanish is going to be easier for you than if you were Korean and that sort of stuff maybe. But then again, some languages are easier than others.

[00:31:28]>> Well, I I strongly disagree with that.

[00:31:30]And I I really do feel that the more languages you you know, you learn learn about, the more you realize that every language has difficulties.

[00:31:41]>> They not they're not all comparable.

[00:31:42]Sorry, I disagree with you on this one.

[00:31:45]It's ob it is a fact once again that some languages are absolutely harder and this has been professionally assessed multiple times.

[00:31:55]It is what it is. So in this case I understand his his look cuz I mean it's nice what she's saying but not all languages are made or created equal.

[00:32:03]>> Uh you know difficult aspects of them. I I think the thing people don't recognize is that they're usually kind of hidden in different areas. So, so for me, since I'm a native Mandarin speaker, whenever someone is trying to learn Mandarin, they always say, "Oh, no. The tones are so difficult. The characters are so difficult to learn."

[00:32:22]>> Um, but for me, like those that's like like, you know, like like walking. It's like breathing air. You know, those things are not difficult at all. But then when I try to learn French, like I mentioned you, or any kind of, you know, language with gender nouns, for example, >> uh, I can't wrap my brain around that.

[00:32:41]Exactly. And these are objective factors. You can't really say, yeah, of course, Mandarin might have a easier grammar pattern or system compared to two languages with gendered. Although then again, you don't really have to think about it too much. I'll tell you someone who speaks a natively a language with gendered patterns. We don't think about it. I don't really think that this box is a female. It's just a linguistic thing. Uh maybe the only case is if you do a Disney movie and you ask me to animate this I might turn it into a girl because feminine noun but other than that it's not like I literally think wait the table is a boy. I don't. It's just a grammar thing uh to be honest.

[00:33:18]And in fact and this might be a little controversial but I think the gender is in fact connected more strongly to the article than it is to the final vowel of a word. Happy to defend that on a dedicated video if needed. regardless.

[00:33:30]Uh, yeah. No, it's not all language langu you could say, but characters are objectively harder than a language that doesn't have characters like Chinese.

[00:33:39]But a language with complicated grammar functions such as gendered language or cases is going to be harder than a language that doesn't have cases. That's fine. But these are not equally distributed. There isn't like a law that says physically if you are if you have two hard components on the writing systems then the grammar is is going to be easier as a way to compensate because all languages are created equal. That's not a thing. So some languages absolutely require like three, four, five times the amount of work and study time than others. And of course what language you speak will influence that greatly as a native speaker.

[00:34:22]But it's still a fact.

[00:34:24]>> So I think for me I think every language has complexity but it's just kind of in different places. Every every person who you know are born and they're learning their native language no matter which one it is. I think it's equally hard for for the baby >> for the baby as a native maybe. But then again Japanese they have to spend 10 years to learn to read and write as natives. That's not equally difficult to an Italian who only has to learn 21 letters and then the spelling is going to be phonetically consistent for the P part is it?

[00:34:59]>> I mean that already defeats the point.

[00:35:01]>> Yeah, that's my opinion.

[00:35:03]>> Okay. Well, it depends what you mean by inherently. Like every baby any baby can learn any language.

[00:35:09]>> Yes.

[00:35:10]>> Uh some languages take longer to learn for the baby.

[00:35:14]>> Which ones would you say? Well, one of the issues is because learning the language includes learning to read and some languages are more are less transparent, more opaque. So the that if you look at Spanish or Turkish, there's a onetoone relationship between the writing system and what you hear in Danish and English that's not the case.

[00:35:37]>> And so there it takes a little bit longer for Danish and English kids to learn to spell, for example. So those are some inherent different differences.

[00:35:46]>> See, that's a good point. I can I can admit it. It pissed me off earlier on, but now he's making a good point. I'm agreeing with him.

[00:35:51]>> Uh, and the other consideration, of course, is what your native language is.

[00:35:55]So, the more the language you're learning is similar in structure and in vocabulary and in writing system to languages you already know, the easier it becomes. So, it's that's a good point, which is why she, as a native speaker of Mandarin, an excellent teacher by the I've watched some of her videos in my personal Mandarin learning journey. That's why she finds French difficult because the lack of relation.

[00:36:19]There's relative difficulty based on languages you speak and and in terms of absolute terms. I mean, it's more difficult to learn an alphabet system than to learn Chinese characters because you got 26 letters in the alphabet. You got so many >> No, it's easier to learn the alphabet, but I think you misspoke >> characters to learn. uh so the some languages are in terms of difficulty different and that means that some must be objectively more difficult than others. I think her position is a bit on the philosophical side rather than a linguistic one. And she's free to her opinion, but it's just a fact that not all languages are equally distribute distri distribute the difficulty equally within their subsections or subcategories of learning. This is fascinating. I'm halfway through, but it is a 33 minutes video. I'm going to leave it at this. We might continue it on part two, but of course if you want to keep watching, do click the link in the description and pinned comment to give them a like and then if this video does really well, we'll do the second part. How about that? Does that sound like a plan? Thank you for watching and joining Metatron Academy. And thank you to both the creators for producing this interesting, interesting, engaging, and sometimes enraging video. Have a good one. Bye.