The Footballer that took HALF his Salary in Bitcoin

Added: 2026-06-03

[00:00:00]If you sum up the last 22 years of the pain and the heartbreak that the fans have had to go through, they will take a Premier League this year all day long.

[00:00:09]For them to go and bounce back from all of the critics, all of the setback just shows how elite this manager is and how elite these group of players are. I think the quality of football has come down because the schedule is so thick.

[00:00:22]You cannot play a full throttle football, which is what people want to see every 2 days and play that 60 times a year. After speaking with David, it didn't take me long to make the decision. How do you say no to someone like David Beckham? Also, the way he shared the vision on what's happening over state side in terms of the league and the club that they're building.

[00:00:42]Also, just the opportunity outside of football. I went from Arson Wenger to Tony Pulis. I don't think you can get more polar opposite in terms of style of play. Was that a salary reduction?

[00:00:52]Arsenal to West Brom. I think it was more than double. And what >> business fascinating >> Kieran, it is so great to have you in the studio. Thank you so much for joining us today, dude.

[00:01:15]>> Thanks for having me. Um, not only am I a big fan of of the show and and what you guys do, it's also I've picked a great time just to come back to back home. You know, the weather's amazing, that the vibes are high. Um, my my former club uh won the Premier League and uh how can I how can I complain?

[00:01:34]>> Thanks for bringing that up straight away. Go on then. Uh point of uh point of relevance for the audience, we're recording this Friday after you've lifted the Premier League trophy, a day before the Champions League final. and will come out just after the Champ League final. So, everyone could be celebrating. They may not be, but regardless, it feels like whatever happens tomorrow, it's kind of a like it's a it's a free hit after last weekend.

[00:01:57]>> It does. It does feel that way. It does feel like a bit of a free hit. I think, you know, if you kind of sum up the last 22 years, um, of the of the pain and the the heartbreak that that the fans have had to go through, um, they will they will take a Premier League this year all day long. So, it's amazing that they are in the Champions League final. Um, and it's going to be a great game, but I have to say the Premier League was, I think, the priority and they've done it.

[00:02:29]felt like they had to do it this year, didn't it? After having so many near misses and also for me particularly, it was last year when City didn't and then Liverpool came in and took the place.

[00:02:38]Arsenal still finished second. It was just another different winner and not Arsenal.

[00:02:41]>> Yeah. I I do you know what for me I think the people don't really uh appreciate the mentality that it takes to come back three years in a row. For me, that is absolutely remarkable. It's actually harder to go and do it, to go and get it over the line after three or four attempts. You know, I had some near attempts during during my time and and I can tell you that it takes um your whole soul to to try and fight for uh Premier League title. we came near or near abouts. But, you know, for them to go and bounce back from all of the critics, all of the um the setbacks that they had um just shows how elite uh this manager is and and how elite these these group of players are.

[00:03:40]>> Did you think after the Man City game, did you think ah that could have gone again?

[00:03:44]>> The only the only reason I didn't was because of because of City's form. Uh, I know they they'd hit form like they normally do this time of year, but I felt like something was was different in in the in the squad as opposed to to previous years. Um, so that was what gave me more comfort than probably a lot of a lot of other people.

[00:04:07]>> Going back to the Champions League, do you think this will be funny because this will come out post it happening.

[00:04:13]Bets on. Are you going to win or not? I haven't even thought about the chances of of winning because I think I think we've we've seen enough Champions League finals to know that anything can happen in in in any final.

[00:04:33]Um but particularly when it comes to the the Champions League and in particular these two teams that have actually very different um pose very different threats and are coming off of the back are very kind of unique states of of of mental, you know, where where they're at mentally. Um, I think if if Arsenal hadn't have won the Premier League, I would not have backed them for for the Champions League either. But the fact that they've gone and won the Premier League will give them such a relief and such a kind of relaxed mindset going into the game that I've always been of the illusion that when you're super relaxed as a player and you're happy, that's when you're most dangerous. And so I think that coming up against this PSG side who for me are the best team in the world at the moment um you need that otherwise um you don't you don't stand a chance.

[00:05:34]>> Yeah. What do you look at that team now and and see that's uh changed it because you were at Arsenal you know you had one of the greatest managers Premier League's ever seen for your entire career at Arsenal. You've seen the importance at that level and Alteta comes in without that level of experience but he's given the time and he starts to curate the team that now we see winning. But most importantly, I think like now he's actually shown he can cross a line which was the question mark over him from everyone. Like how important is that manager, that leader to the performance of you guys as a team?

[00:06:08]It's it's integral. It's integral to how the team operates. And I'll be honest, I didn't feel that when I was a player as much. I knew how important obviously Aren was, but I was always a person that just wanted to make sure that I took care of my own performance. And I I I took that responsibility on myself. I didn't I didn't want to put that on anyone else, whether um it was a manager or um a teammate. Um I I was kind of and I think probably when you get to that level, everyone has that. they don't they don't rely on on anyone's kind of what they say or what they can do to influence your game. But I think as I as I've come and as I've gotten older, I've realized how important actually a manager is and it it taught me that when I actually went to to West Brom as well in 2017 and I I had a change of manager. I then had a four managers in one season, you know, and and that was such a shock to me.

[00:07:12]>> Cuz you had one throughout your >> Cuz I had one through Yeah, exactly. And then I and then I had four in in the space of a season. And and I saw quickly what happens to a team when the manager loses the dressing room. So So that was a big learning curve for me and that happened later on in my career.

[00:07:26]>> When the manager loses the dressing room, what does that look like? Is it the gossip internally?

[00:07:31]>> I think it's internal. Yeah. I think it starts internally. It starts with one or two and then it's it that's the that's the crazy thing about being a manager is that it spreads so quickly and then once it starts it's very hard to stop. I mean, I remember we had Alan Pardru take over u at West Brom and that was the year that we were relegated and when he when he took over the first thing he did um was take us to Barcelona for a for kind of in January for a warm weather training camp. So, you know, I thought at the time that that that would be a good thing for for the players, but I didn't realize that he had already lost the dressing room, unfortunately, from from decisions that he had made, you know, the the the weeks before that. And then obviously that led to um the the infamous taxi incident where Jake Livermore, Johnny Evans, I think it was Basill stole the stole the taxi in in Barcelona. Uh they stole >> which was a which was a just again >> they stole attacks.

[00:08:42]>> Yeah they did. Yeah they stole they stole it.

[00:08:48]>> And you weren't there obviously.

[00:08:50]>> No I I wasn't I wasn't I was the one I was >> How did you find out about it?

[00:08:56]>> Is that one of the things where you look at on the news? You go surely not. I I I I found out about it because in the morning we had actually not we didn't have training until the afternoon, but my door was was banging down at like 9:00 a.m. and uh we got told to to meet in the the dinner hall of the hotel. And I went down there and everyone was, you know, dead silent. I looked out the window and there was like 10 police cars outside and I was like, "What's what's going on here?" And I had no idea until about an hour later when when uh they the culprits had to go to to the police station. What did the managers say to you? Like last night there was an incident. Please put your hands up if you're involved.

[00:09:34]>> Yeah, it was like that. Yeah, it was actually the you know, the police are downstairs like whoever whoever was was responsible for last night, you got to go to the station. My point being was uh you know it took me until then to realize how deeply important it is for a manager um to how important his role is in in things like that getting things over the line or keeping a dressing room.

[00:09:59]>> Yeah. But I mean you know when you uh were kind of getting towards the end of your Arsenal career then was kind of getting towards the end of his wasn't he as well >> and there was I remember there was so much conversation outside of the club in the media about him. you had fans in the stadium who started to get a bit itchy, you know, this whole time for change, etc. >> Does that filter into the dressing room at all when you have someone like him where you see the fans maybe unfurling a banner in uh in the stadium or obviously media, social media gets rife? I don't think for one minute that during my time anyway that I was there that he I didn't feel that he had lost the dressing room, you know, compared to like what I experienced after that. It it didn't feel that way to me. And you know, I mean, certainly for me as as an individual, I had the utmost respect for him. I didn't feel that way. I didn't feel that what was being what was being reflected on the outside was at least, you know, it may have been drip feeding in, but there wasn't a a huge kind of infestation of like we've everyone's turned against a manager.

[00:11:07]>> Was he the best manager you worked with?

[00:11:10]>> Yeah.

[00:11:11]>> What made him so good? I think for for me as an individual, I was, you know, part of a a young um crop of players that were coming through the the club after um you know, a very successful time for for the club, you know, the invincible era. Um and obviously we then had a big change in the club moving into the new stadium. And I just think that the way he uh managed to get the best out of I think he got the best out of us um as a as a squad, as a group of players. His ability to make you feel calm and uh relaxed in high pressure situation.

[00:11:56]Obviously, it's a very high high pressure environment and and a very demanding one, but I think he never strayed too far away from his philosophy, which was um the way that we wanted to play the game, you know, which was the way that, you know, he he taught us right the way through the club from the academy. Um the academy plays the exact same way as as the first team and that started from him. So, I think that that was amazing for for me as a player to come through the the academy to know that everything from top to bottom is is the same. And I think he had a unique way of giving you confidence um and making you feel like you have earned the right to to to be in this position and he gives you he gave you the the the freedom.

[00:12:47]>> We've joked about it before with other football guests, but you've actually mentioned it a few times. Something we I've we both seen I think in the media was uh do you remember I think it was before a game of Old Trafford I can't it may have been when you were playing or not but he was pulling players aside going right today's going to be your day I can feel it very specifically like you're you're going to change this game I know it player walks off >> today's going to be your day I can feel it but he basically had to point every player going out onto that pitch >> Yeah.

[00:13:12]>> feeling like he believed it was specifically him that was going to change it. It seemed like that type of thing where he was just able to extract.

[00:13:19]>> Yes. And it's because of his delivery of I think he obviously he's a very intelligent guy. So he knows how to either manipulate you into believing that you are um you know a very a very good player. And the way he used his kind of there would be ways he would use anecdotes and little stories before each game when he was doing his team talks.

[00:13:41]And he didn't speak often to be honest.

[00:13:43]Um, but when he did, you you really listened and I think he always managed to hit home with kind of analogies and small little messages that stuck with you throughout the game.

[00:13:56]>> Which which halftime team talk or end of match dressing room reaction was most painfully memorable? like the silence of like um Oh, I mean I would say probably the Chelsea game.

[00:14:17]Say the Chelsea game at Stamford Bridge >> when I got sent off. Yeah. When I got mistakenly sent off. It was just a very bad It was a very bad moment really >> contest for people. I mean it was his 10,000th game, wasn't it? So it was it was built up quite a lot before that. An incredible achievement. You had him and Jose Marino in the other dugout which was quite an infamous rivalry. Y >> you know there was a there was a huge I remember it was a Saturday lunchtime kickoff >> flagship game >> and then we had I had it down here because as a fan Chelsea fan >> Mhm.

[00:14:46]>> it was the most extraordinary one of the most extraordinary things I've ever seen happen on a pitch.

[00:14:51]>> Yeah. And it still dominates my career to this date really. It's the first thing most people say when they when they meet me especially if you're an opposition fan. Maybe not if you're an Arsenal fan but Yeah, tell people what because there may be a few people that don't know actually what happened. But >> my teammate Alex Oxley Chamberlain at the time um he went to stop a shot going in, used his hand. Um so obviously it's a it's a red card, but the ref thought it was me, so he sent me off, which I tried to protest, but once both captains told me that I need to to leave, then I eventually I had to I had to part ways with the film.

[00:15:32]>> Didn't Alex said that it was him, didn't he?

[00:15:35]>> No, he didn't. No.

[00:15:36]>> So, he didn't go up to the ref and say it was me.

[00:15:38]>> No. No. I didn't snitch on him because it's not my job, you know, my my it's the referee's job. It was just such a bizarre moment. Originally, I wasn't leaving the field.

[00:15:49]>> So, I was like, I'm not it wasn't me, so I'm not leaving. So, you're going to have to you're going to have to figure it out. And that was the mentality that I had.

[00:15:59]>> What happens in the dressing room? In all seriousness, like do you because not only then for the added context did that go about, but as you said, it was 6-nil uh you know, for you guys, I'm sure an embarrassing score line to come out of it. It's not just a red card. It's then, you know, a result that you're going to hate. So, how do you how do you come through that as a team?

[00:16:17]>> I mean, the next game is always like two days later, you know, you're in the middle of a season and if you don't uh stay together, then things can get much worse. Um, so I think that that was the the mentality.

[00:16:33]>> Do you think we have too many games today? We've had Mahetta from the PFA on multiple times and he's always saying about the calendar being too full.

[00:16:41]>> I think so. I think so. I mean it's just my opinion but I think the quality of of football um compared to I would say when I you know when I when I played um has come down I think statistically and physically uh those things have have obviously changed. I think you're seeing more set piece goals go up now and you're seeing less open play goals uh scored and I think that that has to do with the amount of games. I think that the style of football is evolving because the schedule is so thick that players have to um change the way they play. You cannot play you cannot in my opinion you cannot play like you know a full throttle football which is what what people want to see every every two days and play that 60 times a year >> and it's really interesting this if people have seen you actually go into some of the statistics look tomorrow in the Champions League final Declan Rice and will be playing nearly his 70th game I think it will be between 65 and 70 this season >> you will have a number of other players in that team as well at a similar level let's not even talk about then how that influences England's World Cup and that's a huge factor but you look at the competition in the Premier League and you've already said what it takes to win a Premier League right physically and mentally that's a huge part of it you're then going into other competitions going to Europe PSG I don't know if you've seen like Dembele who won the league one player of the year >> at the time he won it a couple of weeks ago he may have played recently it started nine games this season in the league marinos was about the same point being PSG have such a dominance in France >> that they could look after their players in a way where the focus was purely given to the competition. They were most keen to win knowing that really they should still be winning the the league.

[00:18:37]>> There's a big difference between that and what you can do if you're playing in something like the Premier League and be competitive across all of those competitions. And then at the end of it, >> you put a World Cup in and we know what the expectations like in a World Cup in this country. We're probably not going to take that into account, right? We're going to judge and I.e. be happy or critique based on the 90 minutes that we see versus Croatia and Panama. So, it's a real challenge for them to balance it out.

[00:19:01]>> Oh, massive. I mean, you just summed it up there, especially with with with Declan Rice. And he's not someone that's not covering that that's covering short distances in a game, by the way. He must be doing, >> you know, 12 13k a game. There comes a point where it's not realistic, you know, and we want to see exciting football. That's that's that's part of why people watch football and I just think that um we're not going to allow ourselves to to get that enjoyment. Um I mean, you know, for all of uh Arsenal's success, a lot has been spoken about about their their style of play this year, and I think that that this comes down to part of it. I mean, obviously Arteta's found a formula to to to uh find a way to to get over the line and and he's done it. But I think if you were to sit him down and say, "Is this the way that you want to play football uh for your next 5 years on this 5year contract that you're probably about to sign?" I don't think you would.

[00:20:10]>> How much does that influence you as players? you go into a club and style of play particular manager knowing that managers are not secure right so things can change very quickly what are you looking at when you are signing for a club yeah well I mean I kind of wish I'd have kind of gone a bit deeper into that when I signed for West Brom cuz obviously I went from Arson Wenger to to Tony Pulis and that was you I don't think you can get more polar opposite in terms of style of play but obviously you know I was in a different it was a different sit there were other things that play with with that. Um, >> was that a salary reduction?

[00:20:47]>> What's that?

[00:20:48]>> Oh, Storm to West Brom.

[00:20:49]>> Oh, it was it was almost was I think it was more than double.

[00:20:57]>> What?

[00:20:58]>> Yeah.

[00:20:58]>> How much you paid at Arsenal?

[00:21:01]>> Half.

[00:21:04]Smart. Smart man. He's got you. That's okay. So, actually that was because you left at 27, right? Arsenal.

[00:21:11]>> Yeah.

[00:21:12]>> Which as a defender, >> peak years.

[00:21:15]>> Yeah.

[00:21:15]>> You've done 10 years, >> 20 or 229 games. I'm >> amazing. But to leave a club like Arsenal must be difficult to leave at a time where you're 27 and I'm sure you still have the full kind of confidence in yourself. I was looking at it before thinking, what were those motivations?

[00:21:30]And there's no shame in saying it as well, but you know, we talked to players. You get a great financial offer put on the table to you from a club.

[00:21:36]Sometimes you have to make a call. Was that part of the reason a great contract put in front of you from a club that really wanted you?

[00:21:41]>> I wasn't motivated by money at all. No.

[00:21:43]No. In fact, for most of my career was not um motivated by money. I mean, I think about when I when I went to into Miami from West Brom, I took uh probably an 80 85% pay cut to go to into Miami.

[00:22:01]You know, I never really I I was never really someone that that was thinking about money and I and I turned down offers to go to to other to other clubs from West Brom that were Yeah.

[00:22:15]significantly more.

[00:22:17]>> Which which of those do you think about most?

[00:22:20]>> What what the offers that I turned down?

[00:22:24]>> Um I turned down a few offers in Tur in Turkey. I think they just had a thing where >> they just really liked it.

[00:22:30]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:31]>> Um, >> why not for you?

[00:22:33]>> Why not Turkey?

[00:22:35]>> Um, I I was actually worried about not getting paid at all in Turkey. So, that that was why that was >> look great on paper, but >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I was I was I was interested, but obviously, you know, I'd heard stories about players like Robbie Van Percy who had payment problems there. So, I was thinking, well, if I go there, then if Robin's getting payment problems, then uh definitely I'm I'm this that that concerns me. But also, I think with with the Inter Miami move, it that I I just saw me being able to add more value in in the US for myself after after Korea as well.

[00:23:12]>> Can I before we kind of dive into that amazing chapter, but like how much was your first professional contract for? Do you remember that?

[00:23:20]>> My first professional contract um was probably about6 to 800 a week. Do you remember there was a big >> step up in a contract where it went from like that sort of thing to like 30 grand a week?

[00:23:36]>> Um yeah, there's a there there was a I then signed another contract after that that went from like went like double double uh £800 a week. Do you think there is the right financial infrastructure for very young players 18, 19, 20 year olds who were suddenly banking? I mean 30 grand a week is a low point in some cases, 100 in others.

[00:24:02]>> Yeah.

[00:24:02]>> Big money.

[00:24:03]>> Yeah. Nothing could prepare me for that in terms of, you know, from where I'd come from as a, you know, as a family.

[00:24:11]Um, I was very thankful to my mom who was an avid saver for me. She didn't allow me like real proper access to my accounts. She she didn't look after it personally, >> but my agency at the time pulled in someone to basically kind of allow me give me an allowance, which I'm forever grateful for. Um, you know, I I I was never really someone that loved cars and watches and and stuff like that. I I used to spend money on um on experiences and anything that was uh convenience, anything that could buy me time.

[00:24:55]>> I used to I used to spend money on.

[00:24:56]>> Did you see the lavish banding from other very young players who didn't have that structure?

[00:25:01]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw it. I saw it a lot. Especially the foreigners, you know, because the foreigners, they come, they're probably super homesick. They're 18 years old. Their family's not here.

[00:25:15]And what else are you going to do?

[00:25:16]You're you're all of a sudden a multi-millionaire.

[00:25:20]And it's very easy to be able to, you know, make those kind of rash decisions when you're, you know, completely out of your in a new environment, out of your comfort zone, living in a city like London as well.

[00:25:34]Um, >> what would you tell a young athlete who is suddenly making a lot of money >> around a window of your career where you make a lot of money and now you're now in a different stage of your career?

[00:25:47]What would you tell them knowing all you know? I would tell them to be curious. I would tell them to be curious about everything because I think that decisions that I made with certain investment choices and decisions came started from curiosity.

[00:26:07]And um I think if you are not striving to kind of yeah be curious and learn and learn more then I think you're you're falling you're falling behind.

[00:26:21]>> Did that curiosity come from you or did it come from someone trying to tell you to be curious?

[00:26:29]>> Came from me.

[00:26:30]>> Brilliant.

[00:26:30]>> Honestly, it just came from me. I was just always I was just always curious. I I didn't like people or someone knowing something that I didn't really know. Um not that I had to there were some things that I would have to to learn profusely until I knew everything about it, but I just had to know at least something about something.

[00:26:53]>> Would you would you be happy to share what you told us about um how you like were really curious with how how Robson Caru who you know friend of the show done a really great episode with him.

[00:27:02]has been amazing in business outside of it. The reason I I say this is because we often ask athletes about this and you'll say, "I'm really curious." Do you speak to other athletes in the dressing room about it? No. No. They don't really interact or don't want to do it. But >> you highlighted to us before we got on here of how important it was for you to actually show curiosity and what how was doing and the time he was putting into something that was a bit outside of what maybe the other players were looking at as the normal way to spend your your time.

[00:27:27]>> Yeah. I mean, I I honestly put down part of why I moved to to West Brom. I'm I'm quite a kind of deep deep thinker like that. Um that it was to meet to meet Hal. Um I knew him from the England days when we were younger. Um but obviously, you know, that was we were 18, 17, 18 then. So it was very brief. And then when I moved to West Brom and and after looking back on my time at West Brom, a big part of of my journey there was meeting him with one of the most incredible people I've ever met and I've met a lot of a lot of interesting people. I think he is just an incredible human being. I mean, you guys obviously interviewed him and the amount I learned from him in those four years that I was there um is I'm just so grateful. I'm just very grateful. And the first, you know, it started very funny because when I when I first signed there, I didn't really know any of the of the players and he would be the first one in on his laptop every morning without fail. and he would be just tapping away and the boys would come in, you know, before before training and and he he he he was I wouldn't say uh he he was like the running joke of the of the of the changing room for just being on his laptop all the time and you know >> because he was being different >> because he was just being different.

[00:28:52]Because he was just being different and he used to just laugh it off. He was still actually one of the boys as well, which was, you know, he had that unique ability to um to not take not take it personal and actually kind of be in on the joke himself. And so, yeah, I just I I became really interested in what he was doing and I was I asked him about, you know, what what what he could share with me and that was it. I just he just took me down an absolute rabbit hole of of the history of money. Um and it started from there. It didn't it didn't actually start with crypto and and and and Bitcoin. Um it was the history of money. He want he wanted me to start there.

[00:29:38]>> That's so good though. But again, I think the point on that is that you know you leaned in but quite often when we speak about sport, you know, the breaking out of the normal culture is such a big fear. It's a human thing, right? it's not sport that you don't necessarily always want to do the different because you may get laughed at or someone may say it's weird but sometimes now and especially in sport now where you have a little bit more of this in dressing rooms and it's and I I think it's far more common for athletes to be doing a lot of this like take the opportunities where they come >> put yourself around those that may be doing something that you wouldn't have done and learn pet a check do you remember when we had he he said literally the same thing he'd go home he said >> I had an extra 3 hours >> a day like I didn't go and game I just went and worked Yeah. And and and especially because I just moved to Birmingham, it was the perfect time for me. I I wasn't traveling back to London much. It was the perfect time for me to spend those time those hours after training um away from family and no distraction. Um if I if I hadn't have had that, I probably wouldn't have learned as much as I as much as I did. I even me taking myself away from my comfort zone um exposed me to to learning more.

[00:30:51]>> When did you start investing?

[00:30:53]>> I started investing in probably 201 person personally invested in 2019.

[00:31:02]when you see 100 grand a week Kier and Gibbs paid say what I'm just making up like >> do you get a hundred grand a week or is then there like an agent and then another agent and then another agent and then at the end of the day I'm left with you know tax right so >> yeah well yeah there's obviously the tax but with the agency stuff that also a lot of that's paid up front so especially like when I signed at um West Brom Um, that was already kind of included in the in the fee.

[00:31:36]>> Do you get a signing fee? A signing bonus?

[00:31:39]>> Signing on fee. Yeah.

[00:31:40]>> What was the signing?

[00:31:41]>> Um, do you know what? I can't even remember now. It wasn't It wasn't massive. I didn't go for I didn't go for a lot of money. I went for seven.

[00:31:48]>> You went for double the salary.

[00:31:51]>> I had a low I had a low I had a low fee.

[00:31:53]So, yeah, it's probably why the salary was 7 million. I think it was something like that. Between five and seven compared to the prices now. Yeah.

[00:32:02]>> They got a good deal. Got a good deal.

[00:32:04]>> Yeah.

[00:32:04]>> Did you Did like sponsorships make up any of the revenue for you?

[00:32:08]>> Yeah. Spons sponsor you mean like Nike Nike deals? Yeah. Sponsorship was >> was was healthy if you hit your target in terms of appearances or you know representing your country. There were big bonuses for for in with the sponsor deals.

[00:32:28]>> What was your biggest sponsor?

[00:32:30]>> My biggest was probably when I signed for Adidas. I went to the headquarters actually in in Germany and I was um blown away by um >> And they just send you loads of >> loads.

[00:32:43]>> Yeah, they send you boxes boxes and you have you have a little card you can you can >> Oh, that's cool.

[00:32:50]>> Yeah, the card is cool.

[00:32:51]>> What does the card get you?

[00:32:53]Like it's like a It's like an Adidas credit card and you can just get stuff on on the uh >> It's not a discount card. It's just for free.

[00:33:00]>> It's free.

[00:33:00]>> A Nando's black card. It's free.

[00:33:02]>> Yeah.

[00:33:02]>> Do you still have it?

[00:33:04]>> No. No. No. I don't have I was going to say we there's an Adidas store just down the road from here. So we we could have gone and had some fun.

[00:33:11]>> I think it was um because obviously Arsenal were with Nike as well. So I think that when when your club is with a certain brand and then you are as well to to pull you out of that it has to be a significant deal for you for for you to to get out I think.

[00:33:29]>> What's the uh when you were at or any of your contracts really but if we just use the English ones >> what was the deal with you on your image rights versus what you could do outside of working for the club because as you say Nike with the club and Adidas personally present a clash. Yeah. Do you know what? I only used to deal with my sports deals. I only wanted to concentrate on my football. I think if probably if I if I look back now, I probably would have um ventured a little bit more into my my personal brand, but I I was more I didn't want any distractions. You know, I think the game is obviously completely changed now.

[00:34:06]>> But that's that's the when Harry asked you about advice, like that's the thing now, isn't it? challenges, you know, if you have the opportunity outside of it, how far do you lean into that versus continuing to make sure that your everyday is on the training pitch and doing all of the work on on football?

[00:34:19]>> Yeah, I I I admire players that don't do what I kind of did in that in that regard in terms of like just wanting to focus on football. I think for me, I just didn't feel like I had the uh capacity to to focus on on other things. cuz obviously as I got older it it changed. But when I was younger certainly I was making my way in the game and all I cared about was it was all I cared about. It was it was all it was honestly all I cared about was was was playing football.

[00:34:52]>> Because I think like one piece of advice I would give to young athletes being an incredible athlete myself. Uh is that actually to like think about social media more when you look at like the greats now in terms of monetization outside whether it's your Ronaldos or your Sabalankas like Sabalanka's dance videos. I get her [ __ ] Van Clee multi-million dollar deals. And like, you know what? If she was just a tennis pro just on the game, she would not get the deal she's >> world number one, though. I >> I get you, dude. But the personality drives more.

[00:35:21]>> I think that that's a big that's a big part. Not being number one.

[00:35:25]>> Well, yeah.

[00:35:27]>> Yeah. Okay. So the the the interesting one there is who's doing it who's world number 70 who's really lent in socially and therefore built the Alona Mar type impact >> in rugby without being maybe on the pitch the best player.

[00:35:43]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I always felt that I wanted to uh prove myself in terms of bringing success to the club first before I start to you know kind of use my personal brand. London obviously still pains me to this day that I never managed to um win the the big prizes with the club. Um but you know I see players now that are nowhere near reach nowhere near what I managed to and they have massive personal brands. Nowadays it's more accept it's it's more acceptable I think now it's more of like a new school mentality.

[00:36:16]>> Can you talk us through the whole US move and piece from there? We, you know, we we've been talking about commercial, money, business, uh, high level of performance in football. US has so much of that on some sides of it. Maybe lesser side on the performance piece.

[00:36:33]>> When you went into Miami, I mean, >> 85% pay cut >> for an 85% pay cut, but also there was so much there that was probably intriguing and exciting that wasn't yet known. I.e., it was in the first years of the club. You have David Beckham as the owner. Can you just tell us about why you went out there, how it comes about and what's actually worked out for you since?

[00:36:51]>> Yeah, so I was coming to the last year of my contract at West Brom and I just felt that I didn't really want to kind of kick the can down the road anymore.

[00:36:59]I've been in the league in England for 15 years and I just felt that I needed a change mentally. I always wanted to move abroad in some some regard whether it was to to play football in another league um or to just pack your bags and and move >> just not Turkey >> just not yeah just not Turkey but but yeah when it became that choice of of of Turkey or or Miami and I was Saudi as well um I after speaking with David it didn't take me long um to make the decision because well one how do you say no to someone like David Beckham um but also I think the way he shared the vision on what's happening over state side in terms of the league and the club that they're building um but also just the opportunity outside of of football um in terms of commercially and stuff like that. I thought uh there's there's more value that I can add and and I can extract from a place like Miami than a place like Turkey. I I was already, you know, started to be involved in in the in the crypto kind of industry. I say crypto more more the bitcoin world and I could see the news over there with how forward thinking the the city was in terms of the mayor and I mean we spoke about it earlier the the kind of crypto bros that were all moving out there you had your FTX and um these huge huge companies and I thought I'm just going to take a gamble I took a big gamble um and I'm I'm very happy that I made the decision to go there >> what you thought it would It's even more wilder than I thought it would be.

[00:38:51]>> How so?

[00:38:52]>> In terms of Miami.

[00:38:53]>> Yeah, >> it's such a multicultural place, but also it's actually a lot smaller in terms of the kind of network out there.

[00:39:04]It's much smaller than like a city like London or or a New York. But it's because of COVID and the the tax rules, so many people started flooding down the year that I moved there. It was incredible to see the amount of um not just the amount of wealth that was moving there, but um the the diversity.

[00:39:26]Everyone wanted to be in Miami, the literally the year that I moved. It just created this melting pot. And I don't think it's slowing down. I don't think it's slowing down. There's just many interesting people that are moving there from all walks of life.

[00:39:40]And every day is different in Miami.

[00:39:43]There is no one day that's the same.

[00:39:44]There's no Monday. There's no Sunday. It is just one constant uh very intense and fastm moving city.

[00:39:56]>> And how was the football sold to you?

[00:39:58]You know, you drop in. How do you say no to David Beckham? I think a lot of people would agree with you on that. But from his early involvement, you know, him actually calling up players being making sure that you understood the vision from him, but also like the immediate reality of going in to play for a new team, right? Because he could have spoken about what they want to build into Miami into, but you're playing now. So, there's a fine line between you going, "Well, that sounds amazing, >> but I'm going to be here for x amount of time at the early stages of this." like how how is that position to you on on both fronts?

[00:40:34]>> I signed halfway through the season. So, they were rock bottom of the league when I when I joined. And it was funny because I was actually pretty surprised that I'd passed a medical, which no one no one knows. I had a herniated disc um that was pretty bad and but I didn't want to sign and be injured. Um, so I did everything I could. I had steroids.

[00:41:01]I was I was doing the most to to be fit because I didn't want to let him down as well um for taking that that uh that risk in in signing me and giving me that opportunity. After the first game, I made my debut in the second half. I can't remember who it who it was against now. But then after that we we didn't lose for like 11 games since I started the first game. So we went from rock bottom to like fifth in the league and it was incredible. I mean, even I I hadn't hit that form in a long time, you know, at West Brom. And uh so I think that I mean after that I ended up having to to have uh back surgery. So I had had surgery that right at the end of that season. Um but it was a case of you know the club was not in a in a great position at the time in terms of its position in the league. I think it was its third year.

[00:42:06]>> Was the quality of football very different? Like slower, less physical, less intense?

[00:42:10]>> It was more physical.

[00:42:12]>> It was more physical. Yeah. Yeah. I I I kind of compare it to like checkers. In America, it's just end to end and very fast and no real kind of structure like like chess. You know, chess is it's slow, but then it's very very quick.

[00:42:32]Whereas Checkers is just, you know, it's just chaos, isn't it really? Um, and that's kind of how I describe it. Less structure, but more more physical. They don't they don't keep the ball as much.

[00:42:46]They don't have that structure. The league is dominated a lot by uh Latin players, and so high talent. Um but in terms of of football footballing kind of structure it's it's growing but it's it's low >> on structure. We often speak to owners or you know CEOs and they often talk about training grounds and facilities around it comparably training grounds facilities amazing around it when you're arriving into Miami and the Americans crush it or not?

[00:43:20]Facilities are good. Facilities are good. The training ground is amazing. Um I mean I don't you know it's very difficult to compare it to a club like like Arsenal. But yeah they have they have good infrastructure there.

[00:43:36]>> Do you feel quite pampered when you're like an Arsenal when everything is I'm sure so beautifully done and so perfect.

[00:43:43]Uh it's definitely a unique environment in terms of I think the way everything is set up there at the at this at the training ground. I think that the the the more the more higher pressure club that you're at, the the nicer the the environment, it kind of reflects um how big of a of a club you're at. And obviously the food, the facilities, the level of care is is yeah, it's another level.

[00:44:14]>> What's happened with the club now?

[00:44:16]Right. You got the Messi effect.

[00:44:18]Everyone knows what that's done.

[00:44:20]>> How have you seen it? You stayed in Miami, right? So maybe you've stayed out there. You've seen this. You you've been at a club in an early stage of its life.

[00:44:28]You've seen it grow into now or growing into something which is a global brand.

[00:44:31]Um, well, I mean, when I arrived there, I think they was still figuring out that kind of uh the the the culture side of it more. And it takes years and years to build culture, right? You're talking about a club that was 3 years old when I got there. And so, most people, they probably don't they don't know what they're um what they're following as as such. It takes time to to build that. And I didn't realize that until until I got there because I just grew up in the ranks at the ranks at Arsenal and and I just thought that that was the the standard. Um so it was apparent to me when I when I moved there that for me it's culture first. Um it sets the rest of the tone for for a club, for a community, um for a business. it is the it is the single most important important thing and I didn't realize that when I was a player but I I I realized that when I um when I went to into Miami and obviously you know now the club will be in a completely different place to when I was last there which was 3 years ago. Now they have the world's greatest player that that will start to induce a new culture with probably how he how Messi wants or expects things. I think that that will probably be filtering through the club at the moment. Is it night and day when you see the Messi effect like just the teams and teams of uh fans that are now new into Miami fans, the press, the spotlight, the attention that comes.

[00:46:12]>> Yeah. I mean, I went to the first game um that he played and the atmosphere was just completely different to when I was playing there. Yeah. Not just there, but everywhere he goes in any stadium that he goes to play in in America, it's just um >> the the buzz around the place and the the rate of growth of interest in the sport. Um not just from from Messi being there. I think in general it's increasing rapidly. This is a discussion we have a lot, right? And Harry's quite critical. Not critical, skeptical is probably the right word of I know weird him skeptical.

[00:46:52]>> Um, >> you see these bounce Yeah. You see these bounces in athletes when they go to places now because athletes are so well the top athletes have followed more more so than a lot of clubs, right?

[00:47:03]>> But while that's amazing when they're there at the club, does that sustain when they leave? And if you're looking at Miami as a business, right, >> you're loving it right now. But how concerned are you that when Messi leaves a lot of that appeal, a lot of that value goes with him?

[00:47:18]>> I mean, it depends if you know it goes with him because he's is he going to will he continue playing after this? So, I think that the the club will always attract amazing players. Maybe not to the point the the level of of a Messi, but I think the way that um fans are and and players are building their brands, they will actually be able to build brands that can I'm talking about brands maybe not level of of player, but brands that will attract fans because of technology that will be huge audiences. So, so clubs will be able into Miami will bring another player eventually, maybe not as close to Messi, but but close enough.

[00:48:11]But my my argument is that essentially they will not sustain the Messi effect and that you have an increasing number of sports and events which take consumer time and attention and football will soccer awful will not break into tier one entertainment in the US as a result of the competitive budget for consumer attention.

[00:48:36]>> I disagree. I disagree because I think if you look at how new the sport actually is there, you know, the MLS was founded in 96, right? What has happened since? Now, you're about to have a World Cup there.

[00:48:53]So, it's been 30 years. If you look at what's happened in those 30 years, um it's actually been quite a rapid growth.

[00:49:05]And I think if you look at what's going to happen probably off the back of the next World Cup, um I think the next 30 years, I think you will rapidly I think I actually I actually think the complete opposite.

[00:49:16]>> Do you not do Do you not think that is predicated on getting tier one players to leave tier one leagues in a time where they are playing their best football, not great players at the end of their career wanting to monetize building a brand?

[00:49:30]>> Yes, some things definitely have to change. Some things definitely have to change and and some tough decisions have to be made by the governing bodies that are over there. That is also without a doubt.

[00:49:40]>> What is the toughest decision that has to be made by the >> um I think they need to pay players more. I think they need to pay players more. I think the fact that you can have a player that earns $6 million a year and another player that earns $60,000 a year is just unacceptable to be honest.

[00:50:01]Can you explain the um the structure there? Because how pay works in the US is different to how it works in other leagues.

[00:50:10]>> I don't know how and why it started, but yeah, you basically have three designated players on each team that are exempt from normal salary cap of of every of each club. Um, and I guess I guess it comes down to the fact that the teams are basically owned by the league.

[00:50:35]And so what you have obviously you have that you have this the single entity structure that's owned by the league.

[00:50:42]And so they can't just then go and pay players exactly what they want. They have to keep it equal. And I don't know how they're going to be able to to change it, but to attract more quality players, as you're saying, you have to you have to pay them more. Um, it's it's it's pretty self-explanatory.

[00:51:05]>> So, the other thing just saying on that though, it's like every American has an English football team that they support.

[00:51:11]That's the funniest thing. I have So, most of my friends are American. They all like Arsenal. They all like Chelsea, they like Manu. Oh, what about like the MS? I don't watch that.

[00:51:20]>> Yeah, but >> and with the concentration of quality and talent towards the English football league, which is great.

[00:51:27]>> Yeah.

[00:51:27]>> You have more people want it.

[00:51:29]>> Mhm. But but how many Americans were watching even the Premier League uh you know, up until many years ago?

[00:51:40]>> Much fewer.

[00:51:41]>> Much fewer. Yeah. So, I I I think that um there's a lot of catching up to do, but I think that there are going to be um significant milestones that happen after after the back of this World Cup that's coming.

[00:51:55]>> Yeah. You mentioned pay. Tell everyone what you did with your salary when you first signed.

[00:51:59]>> Yeah. So, we we announced a new sponsorship about two weeks after I signed um the club, a new front of Jersey sponsor called XBTO. They're a crypto finance company. And the club basically messaged me and said, "Oh, we're doing a launch of of this new sponsor. Would you like to come? They're a crypto finance company, and we can see your they could see my Twitter and stuff." And they they said that we we can see that you're you you like um Bitcoin. And I said uh I said, "Yeah, sure." I went to the launch. I met the whole company, met the founders, um and we just got on really well. and and I I did the launch with them and they said would you I I I actually asked them if if they would be able to do it and they they said yeah we will we will explore it. So >> sorry do what?

[00:52:54]>> Pay half of my salary in Bitcoin. Yeah.

[00:52:55]>> Pay half your salary in Bitcoin.

[00:52:57]>> Yeah.

[00:52:57]>> How much was that?

[00:52:59]>> It wasn't obviously it was 85% less than West Bro.

[00:53:05]So, we keep you in here to wear you down. After 6 hours, you'll be like, "It was 13, 15, 20." And I'm like, "Ah."

[00:53:14]>> Okay.

[00:53:14]>> A half salary in Bitcoin. Okay.

[00:53:16]>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was more of it was it was it was more of I did actually I did actually do it. It was It was um they didn't actually send me Bitcoin. It was more of like 50% of my salary was it was like a direct debit because you technically you're you're not allowed to by law. you you weren't allowed to do it. So, um cuz we couldn't pass it through the the MLS. So, I just had like a direct debit that basically sent them 50% uh and then they sent me Exact Yeah.

[00:53:47]they converted it and sent me back. The reason why I announced that was because there was Well, there were two reasons really. I I wanted to uh kind of in increase my network in the in the area of Miami and it actually worked because when I put it out on on on Twitter, I had so many people messaging me. I had um Pomp Anthony Pompiano, I don't think you're I don't know if Joe Pompiano's brother Joe does all the sport. Yeah.

[00:54:18]>> Yeah.

[00:54:20]um Bellari, the ex uh CTO of of Coinbase, >> very smart guy, >> um Michael Sailor, and it just completely um spiderwebed my network in that industry, which was which was what I wanted to do. You know, I wanted to kind of get a deeper understanding of of the technology. Um, but I also wanted to uh let people know that this is a powerful technology and I wanted to try to help people understand it more and I felt that by announcing something like that, you know, it's like a salary announcement that's showing high conviction. Um, and so I thought that maybe someone might do some research on it like I did, you know, because it it helped me massively when I first got into the space.

[00:55:12]>> Did you feel the volatility of the price swings? Because obviously your salary is then tied to the price of Bitcoin and so in some weeks going up massively and some weeks you're not looking good.

[00:55:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I I by then I'm I was already four years into the technology in terms of in terms of understanding it.

[00:55:31]>> I'm I'm not being a dick and I'm not asking for money or numbers, but at that stage you it's awful term post economic where you're like eh I don't I don't need it. Like when you go to the US you're like okay I've made x amount of money I know that's safe.

[00:55:48]>> Yeah. This was not Yeah. This was this was not about the actual money. this was how can I get people uh researching this stuff you know I think that players um have platforms like you know and I've never really come out and spoken about uh politics or uh religion and I felt that for me I was putting attaching my name to something that I felt can help many people and that was why I wanted to do it.

[00:56:25]>> What did your advisors say to you? But no, I'm being no but I'm actually being serious because like actually I think it's very sound financial decision- making respectfully agents and football agents are not very good investors are not very good portfolio managers actually aren't equipped to manage your money very efficiently at all. Most wealth advisers are actually not very good either and they're incentivized by fees and you trading and transacting which often isn't the best either. What were they advising you? By this time I was already 27 and so you know I think if this would have happened you know before then I I don't think my mom would have she had less control. She had less control by this point but she was also not not happy at all.

[00:57:08]>> But also it sounds like you've done you know it wasn't like this was a I wake up one day read an article and I'm going to go and bung half my cash in there. You said you spent four years >> looking at this. Yeah, >> you make a very specific decision at a, as you say, specific time of your career >> on a much smaller salary. You've probably assessed your percentage risk where you're going, okay, like I can do this and as you say, if it happened to go to zero, let's just say, yeah, >> it would be gutting, but I'm not I'm not broken.

[00:57:35]>> So, like that I would imagine for you was part of a much longer process than just a >> Oh, absolutely. No, no, no. The first time I the first time I bought Bitcoin was in in 201.

[00:57:48]The amount of the amount of Bitcoin that I bought through my salary was probably less than 2% of what I'd owned total. So it was purely publicity. It was it was it was purely publicity at that point.

[00:58:02]>> Can I can I ask you it's lovely when money is coming in.

[00:58:06]>> Uh then you stop playing and the money flows stop. Mhm.

[00:58:10]>> And you see this with a lot of players where it's like, oh [ __ ] didn't factor that into my thinking.

[00:58:16]>> What does that look like? Is it all presenting investing dividends?

[00:58:21]>> What does the money flows look like today for you?

[00:58:24]>> Yeah. Um, so you know, I I I I sold a lot of assets over the last 3 years since moving to America. That ended up turning out all right. But yeah, I think as a being as a as a US resident, uh, owning foreign assets is a complete pain.

[00:58:45]>> So I think it was time for me to like consolidate and I knew I was going to be based in the US. I knew I wanted to be based in the US longer term. And then um, now I just Yeah. And now I just have it based in the US that um is with uh a very trusted person that I work very closely with and it's spread across stock market and um a bunch of other different uh asset classes.

[00:59:13]>> Tell everyone what you're doing now. You got really cool business. We've already spoken about you said how was one and who you're currently working with now as another as like the top athletes um from the business perspective. But what you guys are doing is really cool. Tell everyone about it.

[00:59:27]>> Yeah, so I got lucky enough to be honest to play uh into Miami with uh Bla1 Matuidi who obviously I played I played against him for PSG and and against France as well. An amazing player but uh an even more incredible person. Um played with him at in. He decided he wanted to to stay in the US long term and I decided the same and we together along with Silvan Marvo just as remarkable as as how and and Blaze actually in terms of his intellect and his ability to operate um at such a high level. I couldn't I just can't believe the guy that he is. We set up the club together two years ago and the idea is to create uh I mean at least for me I think we all we all agree that we want a worldass uh football institution built on strong values strong community and um and we want to base it in the US.

[01:00:36]>> What what does that mean? That's like training grounds.

[01:00:39]>> No, youth academy. this youth academy training the next generation.

[01:00:43]>> Yeah, we I don't even like to call it an academy honestly. I I I like to call it an institution because there's I think for us there's no um we don't want to we I don't think we want to limit oursel. I I believe that we will probably break into uh the ownership uh level in terms of at the MLS level.

[01:01:06]We compete already in the MLS next which is the highest youth academy league that you can that you can compete in. Um and then obviously you have the MLS that sits at the top and in between you have what's called the MLS next pro which is kind of like the feeder league into the MLS.

[01:01:27]nonMLS teams can also have uh next pro uh franchises and it works pretty much identically to the MLS model um but just on a much smaller scale.

[01:01:39]>> What's it like academy side kids coming into the game?

[01:01:44]Talent, what's that like in the US compared to what it was or what it is from your experiences in the UK? Where where are we at with football at grassroots over there?

[01:01:54]We are still behind to be candid, but it's it's growing. But I think culturally is what's keeping um is what's keeping it behind and that's what we're trying to to inject. I think what you have in obviously in the US is kind of like a top- down structure. So So the the grassroots is kind of like the last people that that get affected by the sport, right? if the leagues were kind of built first and the the infrastructure was built first and the the culture followed. Whereas in England and in in in Europe, um the culture was what was built first. You know, football was was built from teams out of churches and and factory workers and and and and war.

[01:02:43]England played against Germany on Christmas Day, you know, like the the the the culture was built first here and um that is what I think is is has slowed America down in terms of producing top talent. So, so what we want to do is try to inject some of that um kind of bottom up culture and that comes from the experiences that we had as players. Um, >> doesn't it come back to also though grabbing those kids and making sure they're playing soccer, not necessarily going and playing all the other options that you have in the US? Because over here, like football, as you said, football's so ingrained into the fibers of this country. Like footballmies thrive because it's the number one priority for a lot of kids when they are first discovering sport.

[01:03:31]>> But the the market honestly is huge in America. It's the country is so big. You have 300 350 million people there and and and and soccer is actually it's it's really big there. The interest in the sport is not the issue there.

[01:03:48]>> Do you not think it's exclusionary to young people? Actually, the cost of soccer for young people is very prohibitive in the US.

[01:03:54]>> Yes. And this is a big this is a big um part of our business. Obviously, we operate as a we have to operate as a business because we don't own our own facility. We don't have 200 million to go and and buy a facility and and put kids through our our system that way. We we lease our fields. We have to pay our coaches. You know, we're not part of some big institution. um unfortunately, but I think that there is a massive opportunity for you know big companies to come in and and support um and kind of you know join a movement because the it has to be a long longer longerterm vision if you want to create something uh you know really big there. Um and we we can't we can't do it on our own obviously. We're um we're not we're not big enough.

[01:04:48]>> But also, you have to what you generally have to have to make a sport successful in its domestic market is you have to ensure that you have a good pipeline of players that come from that market.

[01:04:56]Right? Saudi's greatest challenge is great. You bring in all these international stars, but at some pointies have to be feeding Saudi stars in because that's going to be the lifeblood of that league for 20 30 years. US has the same. You want those players at the top top level. I think we have four in the Premier League right now. We've got, you know, you've got those some that have been really successful over the years, but you want to be retaining the Chris Richards of the world that, you know, like in the US systems, playing in those leagues, inspiring the communities because that's how you build the culture, >> right? We grew up here following the England players.

[01:05:30]>> Yeah. I love all the international players coming. But still, yeah, frankly, you know, when we were growing up as Chelsea fans, right? You you have that >> Yes.

[01:05:36]>> that kind of grounding and that to me feels so important for that next stage.

[01:05:40]So, you kind of coming at it from that reverse angle. Yeah.

[01:05:43]>> Is great.

[01:05:44]>> Yeah. Yeah. And that and that is, you know, it it's also selfishly given me kind of a new lease of life. I think the first the first year I I retired. Um it took me I was a little bit I was a little bit lost and now I've found that passion and it kind of made me think about all the the people that helped me get a chance to have a career in this game and changed the the life of myself and my families. And now I feel completely responsible to do the same for for other kids. um and they need they need someone to to to look up to.

[01:06:25]We take that responsibility fully on our shoulders and we're on the field most days while we're there. Um and we're we're really on the ground trying to um see, you know, how we can add value.

[01:06:38]>> Finally, couple of minutes on World Cup in the US kind you you play for England, right? You've you've had that experience. Um >> the pressures that come with it, I'd imagine are insane. The expectations of this country on its international players are huge, particularly coming up to a World Cup.

[01:06:53]>> Oh god. I mean, I I you know, I wasn't lucky enough to go to a World Cup. Um but I can tell you that um yeah, putting on the the England uh jersey, there is no there is no feeling like it. There is no feeling like it. Um because you know you you you realize that all of the the the grounds that you go to that you've played at um up until that point as a as a scholar as a as an academy player um you realize that that actually you are now representing all of of those those people. So the magnitude just completely is is completely different to representing your your club. Um and you have that at the same time as as having an incredible uh feeling of pride. I can only imagine what it's like stepping out uh on the on the finals of a World Cup stage.

[01:07:56]>> How do you think it's going to be? I was speaking to someone from New York who lives in New York yesterday and he was saying you still wouldn't know the World Cup is on. Which was interesting, right?

[01:08:04]So I hope it ramps up in the time. Do you >> Yeah.

[01:08:07]>> Is that still got that feeling in Miami?

[01:08:09]>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I've been back a week and so yeah I just left and uh >> but do you think when it's on it will be?

[01:08:15]>> No one can stop World Cup fever. It's the biggest event in the world and so I think what is >> is it bigger than the Olympics?

[01:08:27]>> Yeah surely.

[01:08:28]>> Yeah. I mean, well, whatever metrics you measuring on the two, they're the two biggest, but if you're really looking at fandom, right?

[01:08:35]>> Yeah. If you're watching who's watching, we all love watching the Olympics, but you're you're >> every single pub pretty much in London.

[01:08:44]Every single one is booked out. You literally cannot find >> Brazil. They they closed the Brazil stock exchange.

[01:08:51]>> That's how big it is, you know? Like, it's it's absolutely enormous. But yeah, I think the fact that it's spread out um between c between the other countries uh is probably the only thing that that will make it kind of less intense uh as it as it could be.

[01:09:14]>> Weather, everyone's been mentioning this. You've played obviously out there in in the conditions.

[01:09:18]>> Yeah, it's I don't know. I don't know how they're going to do it >> really.

[01:09:22]>> Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how they're going to I don't know how they're going to do it to >> What did you do to get through it? I know it sounds stupid. Is it like hydration? Is that electrolytes? Is it you change your prep plan?

[01:09:32]>> I didn't play 190 minutes in for example in that 11 games that were my first 11 games I I played I don't think I played more than 80 minutes. It was just impossible.

[01:09:48]Especially as, you know, I think for me, I I I arrived and played straight away that, you know, they've got a couple of warm-up games and I think that that will help them um that will help them a little bit, but it's just very difficult. It's very difficult, especially in especially in Miami.

[01:10:04]>> So, it will, you know, think it will play a part.

[01:10:06]>> It's going to play a big part. Big part.

[01:10:08]I I saw um and I think again I haven't checked it but I saw someone say that it'll be as hot out there as it would have been if you played the guitar world cup in the summer which obviously they moved >> to the winter in some of the cities where it's playing.

[01:10:20]>> Interesting.

[01:10:21]>> So interesting. Yeah.

[01:10:22]>> Well, you think I think the hottest place on earth is in Death Valley, isn't it? In the US. Like as in that's where the highest temperatures on Earth have been recorded. So >> Wow.

[01:10:29]>> It's it's it's going to be insane. Um >> are you ready for a quick fire round?

[01:10:33]Okay. Are we ready for this? Um, what was your favorite stadium to play at that was not home ground?

[01:10:42]>> The signal in Duna Park.

[01:10:44]>> Oo, good one.

[01:10:45]>> Yeah, >> the what?

[01:10:46]>> Dortund. Brushia Dortmund.

[01:10:48]>> Who is the most impressive physical specimen you have played with or against?

[01:10:54]>> Danny Wbeck. Just an absolute specimen.

[01:10:57]He could walk he would walk into the gym after not being in the gym for months and doing upper body and he will just put 100 kg on on the bench and just start doing reps really.

[01:11:09]>> He's just completely just completely or Mika Richards >> but he was just I mean he's just huge right? I mean that was a >> but he was also just strong as well like naturally strong him those two.

[01:11:23]>> Who by far? Danny I mean Danny Wilbates obviously had a little like well he hasn't resurrected he's been actually quite solid for a long time 14 Premier League 13 14 Premier League goals high scoring English player >> Ollie Watkins just got him on the final on the final day >> but yeah but he was unlucky you know there's a lot of people wanting him to go to the World Cup this summer >> I'm I'm I'm I'll be honest I'm I'm very surprised he's not going >> quite a lot of people >> headed out there is he still playing quite a lot What's football?

[01:11:56]>> How many home runs has he got?

[01:11:59]>> This is a few people have said and I've heard it in their other interviews. He's like he's quite high up on the list of some of the most impressive people that people have played with as well. So, I think he's massively by the sounds of it under appreciated.

[01:12:09]>> Yeah, he is. Okay.

[01:12:12]>> Who's the least impressive physical >> physical um Santi Kaza?

[01:12:19]>> Oh, well played.

[01:12:20]>> Why?

[01:12:20]>> Well played by just by pudding. just just just just just it just epitomized everything that I thought a footballer would would would not be but yet but yet was the best player I ever played.

[01:12:38]>> Bad diet, bad >> No, just I just think Yeah, genetically like he just wasn't um you know he wasn't built like uh your average footballer. He finished it off with the best players I' ever played with. So that's that's why that's why I was going I was like because you've got a guy in there who you can say physically but the talent was just >> extraordinary. Right.

[01:13:02]>> I mean the best player most players that played played with him will tell you s will say Santi Gazola.

[01:13:10]>> Is it wrong to say like how did he compare to a ul just in how they played?

[01:13:15]>> Um I just think it was I just think they were different. I just think they were different. I mean, me will will closely follows. Um, but I just not seen I've not seen the way Santi plays. I mean, the same with Meza really. I hadn't seen anyone played the game like him. Very unique. But I think for Santi because of he because he wasn't blessed physically.

[01:13:46]Do you know how good you have to be to be able to play at that level? Um, when you don't have the the the physical kind of attributes that you you're almost not I wouldn't say you're at a disadvantage because it was also his his blessing um that he was able to be so agile and um you know kind of could spin um on a on a sixpence. Van Persie the best striker.

[01:14:16]>> Um, best striker.

[01:14:18]>> Hammer of a left foot.

[01:14:19]>> Yeah, Van Persie, best striker.

[01:14:21]>> Who did you hate marking most?

[01:14:24]>> Edin Hazard.

[01:14:26]>> Why?

[01:14:27]>> Because I just couldn't get near him. I just didn't I just felt that he um yeah, it was just one of those I mean there was Yeah, there was probably him. I didn't like playing against Antonio Valencia. Um he was he was he was tough even when he was at Wigan. I was playing against him when he was at Wigan. Um and he was yeah just another he was a specimen. But yeah Edin Edin Hazard on his day um was just unplayable. He was one of the players we I think we we used to be quite um an ego-driven team in terms of we felt that we should outplay everyone that we played against um just in terms of the style that we played and we never used to speak about uh opposing players at all but whenever we would play against Edin Edin Hazard the team would would say oh we've we got to play against Edin Hazard tomorrow.

[01:15:24]And that was remarkable considering some of the the players that we had.

[01:15:28]>> And that was on you right as well. Not only did you talk about it, he was probably on your side.

[01:15:32]>> I mean, he just everywhere.

[01:15:33]>> Yeah.

[01:15:33]>> He was just everywhere. He would be on he would pop up on the left in the middle in between you and the and me and the center back and it was just >> hell.

[01:15:41]>> Yeah. He was just so good. He single-handedly won the league for them in in 2015. I think >> you've played under several different managers. Who was the worst? I would have to say my least uh favorite who I felt I least connected with was Alan Padre.

[01:16:04]>> How long has he last?

[01:16:06]>> Five, four, five months.

[01:16:08]>> Did you push him?

[01:16:14]>> What's the most lavish purchase you've made?

[01:16:18]>> So, so is there like a is a house included in that or not? Lavish. That's not lavish.

[01:16:24]>> Let's say luxury. Like a luxury luxury highly liquid asset that you >> Yeah. that Yeah.

[01:16:30]>> Um Oh, that's a good one. That is a good one. I don't think I've ever been asked that. Probably my car that I bought when I went when I got to Miami.

[01:16:40]>> What is it?

[01:16:41]>> It was It's a Defender.

[01:16:44]>> How much jazzed up?

[01:16:45]>> It was jazzed up. Yeah.

[01:16:46]>> Yeah. You got to do it.

[01:16:47]>> Yeah. And I and I couldn't get I couldn't get a lease cuz I you don't have any I don't have any credit.

[01:16:54]>> Yeah. So, >> how much was it?

[01:16:55]>> It wasund 140,000 >> dollars. So, it's not >> not too bad for a Yeah. Yeah. Had some shockers.

[01:17:04]>> Yeah. I wasn't Yeah, I bet. Yeah. I wasn't I wasn't into >> I wasn't into uh >> What about experience? cuz you said you love experiences like most lavish experience and that's probably like given you some amazing times, right?

[01:17:17]>> Yeah. I used to I mean I used to go and you know I used to go away and on holidays and take take my my brother and friends and stuff and we would just kind of um I would say yeah I would say holidays.

[01:17:30]>> Is that one of the nicest things about being a professional when you can do that with your family? You know you give an experience that you're just not going to have anywhere else. Yes, that was the biggest uh I felt that for me that was the biggest thing that I could um the best thing that I could spend spend my money on.

[01:17:49]>> Nice.

[01:17:49]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:17:51]>> Kieran, this has been such a joy to do.

[01:17:53]Leaving on the best thing to spend my money on. That's a great way to end it.

[01:17:56]Thank you so much for being so open and fantastic with us. A pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me on.