Inside A Chicago Street Junkie's 20-Year Spiral | 3 DUIs, Heroin, Cook County Jail & Finding God

Añadido: 2026-06-01

[00:00:00]I then go on to receive my second and my third DUIs in 48 hours.

[00:00:13]>> Mike, I want to thank you for coming on.

[00:00:14]Yeah.

[00:00:15]>> You have seven years of sobriety.

[00:00:17]>> Yes.

[00:00:17]>> Congratulations.

[00:00:18]>> Seven years in January.

[00:00:19]>> Seven years this past January.

[00:00:21]Congratulations.

[00:00:22]>> You are from Chicago.

[00:00:24]>> Yes.

[00:00:25]>> The main streets of Chicago. Southside.

[00:00:27]>> Yep. Yep.

[00:00:28]>> Okay. Southside Chicago.

[00:00:29]>> Yeah. Born on the south side. Uh my family's very very deep rooted on the south side of Chicago. My I have a sister. She's four years older than me.

[00:00:37]And uh my mom and dad moved us out of the city when we were young. I grew up in a south suburb called Tinley Park.

[00:00:43]>> Uh it's like 30 minutes south of the city. But again, my family all stayed in the city. So we're constantly, you know, my that's where my family's from. They have been generation after generation.

[00:00:53]Um so yeah, my parents wanted us to get out of the city. My mother was a nurse for 47 years. My dad was a union electrician. Uh grew up in a very very loving, supportive household. My family worked very hard to provide for me and my sister. We wanted for nothing. I don't have a story of like abuse and neglect and all these things that sometimes lead someone towards addiction. I didn't have any of that. Um I was a very very small kid growing up.

[00:01:21]Like I was tiny. I wrestled like 97 pounds till I was like 15 in high school.

[00:01:26]>> So I carried a lot of insecurities about that like well into my adulthood actually. Yeah.

[00:01:31]>> Uh and that's where like a lot of those deeprooted insecurity and issues came from. Uh that eventually you know when I discovered drugs and alcohol it was like this answer.

[00:01:41]>> I never drank I never drank a drop of alcohol my entire four years of high school.

[00:01:45]>> Wow.

[00:01:46]>> Never touched never went to a party with it. Nothing. I was an athlete. I was a I ran track. Uh I was very good. I excelled in that. Got recruited to a number of schools. Uh so that was my life. That's where like I found my identity was in that. Uh that's what made me feel secure about myself. It gave me confidence. People, you know, recognized me because of that. And I went on to compete at the NCAA Division One level for four years in college. But it was the summer before I went away to my freshman year of college that I drank for the first time. And I remember it was like pure magic. It was like, oh, I discovered something that I couldn't believe I hadn't uh sought out previous because all those insecurities and all those things that I struggled with, they all washed away once I drank. And I'm sure you could relate to that. Um, it was it was literally magical.

[00:02:37]>> It was like a relief from the voices in my head telling me I'm not good enough.

[00:02:41]>> I'm not good enough. They're better than me.

[00:02:44]>> I felt more at ease. I was confident. I could talk to girls. It was like it was like the answer to everything that I had struggled with up to that point.

[00:02:52]>> Um, so that's where it started.

[00:02:56]And from the beginning, I drank very differently than other people. There was like an intensity to my drinking that like Same.

[00:03:05]>> Yeah. I didn't mean even those around me, I would be like, "What do you you don't black out?" Like what? I thought everybody blacked out. Like I thought you drank to the point where you don't remember anything whatsoever. And then I was like, "Hm, that's odd. That happens to me all the time." Mhm.

[00:03:17]>> Um but it it progressed every year of college that I completed, you know, the intensity kept going up and kept going up and then the the drug experimentation started to play into effect. I was in college in the '9s, like ecstasy and all that stuff was a big thing. So, of course, I was in that world as well. Um, >> where did you go to college?

[00:03:40]>> I went to Bradley University.

[00:03:41]>> Okay, got it.

[00:03:42]>> I think you had somebody on your show that went to Bradley University. Yeah.

[00:03:45]Yeah. Yeah. I watched that. I watched that interview and I heard him mention it. Yeah, I went to Bradley University.

[00:03:49]I was an athlete there. Uh I was in the Greek life there. The whole thing, the whole college experience. Um >> but it wasn't until I had to come back for a fifth year to finish up my academics. I never completed my field of study. I bounced all over everything.

[00:04:04]And back in the 90s, there wasn't like a general education degree you get. So I never I never really completed anything in any specific school. I went to college to run. That's all I wanted to do. I never had any intentions of being like a corporate business guy. That was just not who I was. Um, but when I went back for that final year, my NCAA eligibility was over. So, I was no longer an athlete for the first time in my life. And that's where a huge shift occurred for me. Like, I didn't have that identity anymore. I wasn't walking around campus known as he's an athlete.

[00:04:40]No, I was just one of the students. That was it.

[00:04:44]>> And that was huge for me that like I had a void inside me that I had no idea. All those insecurities that I had when I was younger, that all came flooding back in like massive. And I didn't know what to do with it.

[00:04:58]>> But what I did do is I just filled that with drugs, alcohol, partying, and just continued to dive deeper and deeper into the darkness of addiction. What kind of drugs were you doing that fifth year?

[00:05:10]>> Uh, I began, so it's shocking like I ran my last 400 meters at Indiana State University. My mother and father were there. It was awesome. Uh, that was my last race. Within two weeks, I started using cocaine like regularly. It was like I jumped off the cliff. I was already partying hard, using psychedelics and stuff like that.

[00:05:32]Ecstasy was huge. Um, I always made it around my NCAA drug testing, but there was a definite shift. I began using cocaine regularly >> and that very quickly grew into daily >> and then I come home from school and I just bring that with me and I'm back in the city. I knew a lot of people. I had connections to some individuals who were moving significant amounts of narcotics and uh that was it was game on. And so it it it just it began to be daily like up to a quarter ounce in a day of cocaine that I was using.

[00:06:12]>> It was it was it got real real real bad real quick too. Within a year and a half of coming home, I was emaciated. just a shell of who I was before.

[00:06:23]>> Um, >> you moved back in with your parents.

[00:06:25]>> Yes.

[00:06:26]>> And did they pick I mean a quarter ounce a day, that's a lot of coke.

[00:06:30]>> Did they pick up on any of this or >> They definitely thought something was going on. But again, my you know, it's not their fault. They were clueless.

[00:06:38]They had no idea and they they knew something was going on. They didn't know what it was. And you know, you're a parent. I'm a parent. No one wants to believe that. No one wants to think that it possibly could be that.

[00:06:52]>> But no one in my family, you know, my mom had alcoholism on our side of the family, but nobody there's nobody in our family that struggled with like severe addiction.

[00:07:00]>> So, it was they were completely naive to it. And I was a master manipulator. I could hide anything under their noses.

[00:07:07]You know what I mean?

[00:07:08]>> Yeah.

[00:07:08]>> And I had an excuse for for any anything they may think. I had a I had an excuse or an answer to to know make redirect the attention elsewhere so you're not looking at me.

[00:07:18]>> Mhm. Um, but yes, it definitely got to a point where finally I did have to go to them and be like, "Listen, I have a very, very big problem." And they were like blindsided by it. They had no idea.

[00:07:30]They thought I was dealing with anxiety, depression, cuz I was always a very anxious kid growing up. Always had anxiety, like horrible. Still to this day, I deal with it.

[00:07:40]>> But when I dropped that bomb on them, they had no idea what to do, literally.

[00:07:44]I mean, they were they were struggling.

[00:07:46]They didn't know about like rehab and stuff like that. They hear about it, but how do we actually do something for our son? You know, I was 22 years old and >> and and brought that on them. Um, so you drop this on them. This is the first time that they're hearing about it, learning about it.

[00:08:01]>> What do you do they get you help? Do you commit to a plan to maybe get yourself better? What were the next steps?

[00:08:09]>> Yeah. So, like I also received my I got a DUI right before I came home. That was the thing I forgot. So, I got my first DUI right before I came home from school. Totalled my car, the whole thing. But it was, you know, mom and dad, it's it was a situation. Got into a big bar fight. We left the scene, hit the curb a little bit, my car hit the light pole. You know, it was all excuses. Um, so I came from that, then had to go to them and be like, I have a problem.

[00:08:36]>> So, what it was is, okay, let's go see, let's get you signed up to see a counselor. Let's get you on anti-depressants. you know this is ear this is 2001 um and let's start talking to people let's but I never you know the biggest part about it was whenever I would talk to a counselor I was never honest I was never forthcoming with what I was struggling with I wanted to portray this image of confidence and success when inside I was like a little kid who was terrified afraid embarrassed you know ashamed but I didn't want to admit to any of that stuff so as you hear a lot.

[00:09:14]I more so did those things to appease my parents. Like this is going to calm them down. This is going to make them feel better. And I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. I'll figure out how to be like a normal guy who can just drink occasionally and socially with friends and stuff like that. But that's just that's not how it works.

[00:09:30]>> Um so yeah, I I I talked to a counselor. My parents talk brought me to talk to a priest. You know, they're they're I my mom's Irish Catholic, Southside Chicago Catholic faith. Um, but it didn't do anything. I was still, you know, hiding everything that I had buried down inside of me that was causing me to to act in those ways and seek substances to make me feel a certain way.

[00:09:53]>> So, the problem just festered. I would uh I would curtail my drinking or I would get a few months in and then make it seem as if, okay, that was just a phase. I'm over that phase now. I'm normal again. I can drink on Sundays when we're watching football or whatever it may be. But like it it would it's never sustainable. Very very quickly it would begin to show itself that it once again is problematic and it always did.

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[00:11:19]>> Mhm. It's crazy because you went to them for help, right? Like we have these small instances in active addiction where things get really bad and then we're like, "All right, I'm ready. I I'm defeated. And then you tell everyone around you, get the help you need. And then you said, "Well, I did this then to appease my parents because I have a forgetter."

[00:11:41]>> Mhm.

[00:11:42]>> And I always forget how bad it was. And then I stop for a little bit and I'm like, "Oh, actually, maybe I was just overreacting.

[00:11:50]>> It wasn't that bad.

[00:11:51]>> It wasn't that bad. Look, I have this going on in my life. This, this, this, and this." The number of times that I said that to myself in my head, >> I countless. Absolutely.

[00:12:01]>> It happened all through my 20s.

[00:12:02]>> Yeah. Me, too. Same thing.

[00:12:04]>> And if I stopped the first time, I wouldn't have lost so much more than I actually did.

[00:12:09]>> Oh, I mean, I I went I carried it on for 20 more years.

[00:12:12]>> Yeah.

[00:12:13]>> That was a that was like a cycle for me.

[00:12:15]I would do that over and over and over again.

[00:12:18]>> And it's so hard cuz you were around 22 23 at this point. and our society at I I commend people who get sober at a young age because 22, 23, the only thing you're really doing with friends when you're hanging out is drinking, smoking weed, drugs. That's what you do.

[00:12:38]>> Absolutely.

[00:12:38]>> And it's it's it's shitty. I think Gen Z is changing that, which I commend >> that generation. I do too.

[00:12:46]>> Sober Curious Movement, all of that. I commend them so much. But it's very hard for someone at a young age to really find a whole new way to live because of our society and how it is.

[00:12:58]>> Yeah.

[00:12:59]>> So, you go through this uh this brief period, maybe it's not so bad. When do you really start hitting it again?

[00:13:08]>> A few months later. A few months later, it's it's like anything, you know, with addiction. you stop, but like the disease is still shooting steroids, working out, waiting for that weak moment to just destroy you all over again.

[00:13:20]>> And it it it did it did it. As soon as I began drinking again, everything ramped up even higher than it did when I stopped. And that's a cycle that happened over and over and over again.

[00:13:31]But it took me till uh around 2006 again. It was awful. I had gone back out. I was out there for a number of years. Now I'm to the point where like it's alarming how much I know I have a problem. I am a full-blown addict and there's no other way around it and I do not want to live anymore. And that's where I was. That's where I was.

[00:13:55]November 7th of 2006.

[00:13:58]Uh I was out with some buddies. I had been thinking about how my family would be so much better off if I wasn't here anymore. Like I am just causing them so much trauma. so much heartache. They're watching me constantly destroy myself that maybe it's just better if I go. And I I thought that that was like the answer. I truly did. And so on November 7th, 2006, uh I didn't have the balls to shoot myself or hang myself. I'm a drug addict. So what am I going to do? Let's just let's just do a bunch and and maybe it'll be over. And and that's what I tried to do. I uh I drove to the east side of Chicago. I remember uh I bought a bunch of heroin and this was in 2006.

[00:14:45]Unbeknownst to myself, fentanyl had hit the city that summer. It was killing hundreds of people. So yes, fentanyl has been around for much longer than a lot of people think. So in Chicago, it hit the summer before. There people are dead all over the city. I ingested nine bags of heroin, snorted it.

[00:15:07]I fell out of my car, but my car my my legs stayed in the car. My car drove down the street, dragging me outside of the car until it came to a stop, crashing into a parked car, and I was in a very, very, very rough spot, a very, very rough neighborhood to where I don't fit in at all. It just so happened by the grace of God a Chicago police officer was coming up the block before looped around mine and when he turned on the block he saw my car and me hanging out of it. Called an ambulance. I don't remember any of this at all. Uh narcan me several times. I woke up in the emergency room of Northwestern Hospital with like doctors and nurses all around and I had no idea where I was because I thought I was going to be gone. I didn't have any expectation of waking up from this one and I did. And it was like 4 in the morning and my family's there, my mom's there, my dad's there, my aunt and uncle are there. It's in the middle of the night. The police officer found my phone and he found a number that said home and he called my parents in the middle of the night. Woke them up.

[00:16:17]>> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah.

[00:16:18]>> Okay, so you're in the hospital. Your family all comes.

[00:16:22]>> Now, you had been doing heroin up to this point. Did your parents know you were doing heroin? This was the first time I had not I had not I was a cocaine and alcohol guy.

[00:16:31]>> Oh [ __ ] >> Yeah. I had not. But I knew what it did.

[00:16:36]I wasn't an opiate user. I was a thousand miles an hour drinking. Let's go.

[00:16:43]>> Um but I knew that that would that would end it for me.

[00:16:46]>> Mhm.

[00:16:47]>> Yeah. And it it it it did. But I was brought back from it. So uh yeah, I came too. I remember my ma having a conversation with me uh because I was then put in a regular room where I stayed for a few days and then I spent time in the psychiatric unit. Um and this was my this was my first genuine attempt when that began. That was my first genuine attempt at really trying to like make something work in regards to a program treatment. I spent time in the psych unit began talking with therapists. I then transferred to an intensive outpatient program which I had never done before. And uh I mean I did I had early success in that.

[00:17:31]>> Yeah, >> I had early success in that and and I did that for a number of months. Went to meetings every morning. Um I'm a building engineer. It's a union position in the city. I I work downtown. I work in highrises and I I run all the mechanical aspects, the behind-the-scenes stuff of a building.

[00:17:47]I've done it for like 25 years now.

[00:17:49]>> But I was young to it at the time. So I worked during the night. I would get off work, I would go over to IOP, go home, go to sleep, you know, I just had a repetitive thing. And I also, that was the first time that I actually began going to AA >> and started loosely working a 12step program.

[00:18:08]>> Yeah, of course.

[00:18:09]>> Um, got to meet a bunch of guys around my age. We I met a great group of guys on the south side of Chicago who had great sobriety, great meetings, and I started hanging out with those guys and I started to learn a lot about alcoholism and I mean I'm an addict but I'm an alcoholic at heart. I call it alcoholism and everything else it's in the same bag.

[00:18:28]>> That's addiction.

[00:18:29]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:30]>> Y >> um and my life got better. My life got better for sure.

[00:18:35]>> Yeah. How long did you stay sober for?

[00:18:37]So at that time probably 18 months, close to 18 months.

[00:18:45]>> Oh wow. A year and a half.

[00:18:46]>> I was on a gamut of like psychiatric meds though as well. You know what I mean? Like my my periods of sobriety were always somewhat clouded with a whole bunch of psych meds >> trying to regulate anxiety, depression, mood disorders, whatever it is. I was always on a cocktail of things.

[00:19:04]>> Um so I was never like truly sober.

[00:19:07]Well, I want to say you were on meds that were prescribed by a doctor.

[00:19:14]>> Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:19:15]>> Okay. Um, but you weren't seeking out cocaine, heroin, drinking, smoking weed.

[00:19:21]That's soy because listen, you're trying to get your psych under control. You're trying, you don't know, right? So, you're talking to medical professionals because >> listen, there are people and I want to say this.

[00:19:35]>> I'm a huge advocate. If you need meds, you need meds.

[00:19:39]>> If it's going to keep you out of the streets and out of doing things that are going to take your life from you, by all means, do whatever you got to do to keep from doing what you were doing. I am, too. And at that time, I needed it. My brain chemistry was all out of whack from all the drugs I was doing. And I I I needed something to help me get stable.

[00:19:59]>> Yeah, there are people in 12step programs that have no idea what they're talking about in the sense they do know what they're doing and staying sober, but when it comes to meds and it come, they're not doctors or medical professionals. So, when it comes to the psych and look, >> 12step programs, that's how I got sober.

[00:20:17]It's amazing. I'm eight years sober in a 12step program. But there are also you have to be aware there are people that say no meds, nothing d.

[00:20:28]They're not doctors. You need if you need further help, you should go to a doctor and speak to a medical professional.

[00:20:35]>> An individual's sobriety is their sobriety.

[00:20:37]>> Exactly.

[00:20:38]>> Like whatever you have to do to obtain that and to maintain that, by all means do it, man. I I don't judge anybody.

[00:20:47]>> Yeah. If you're trying to stay sober, God bless you. Do what you got to do.

[00:20:51]You know, I'm all for it. Do whatever you got to do.

[00:20:54]>> You know, if you're manipulating a doctor or not. And if you are manipulating a doctor, that is not sober. If you are being honest with a doctor >> and trying to seek out help and staying on that sobriety path, that's sobbriety.

[00:21:07]So, you stay sober 18 months. What did you do wrong? That >> So, it's it's almost and it is what I did wrong, but it's like it's that like I said, it's that repetitive thing. It's that the longer I maintained, the better my life got.

[00:21:21]>> You know, I wasn't getting in trouble anymore. I My family's happy. I'm doing good at work. So, like, maybe I'm over it. Like, dude, maybe I maybe I finally figured it out. Maybe I'm normal again.

[00:21:34]And then sure enough, I start drinking.

[00:21:37]Of course, that's where it always started for me. I start drinking.

[00:21:41]>> I think I can be social and handle it once again.

[00:21:45]>> And I can't. So in that whole entire time that I abstained from it, you know, it's just waiting once again to strike.

[00:21:52]And when it strikes, it strikes harder than it did the last time. It's just a progressive disease. It just keeps growing and growing and growing.

[00:22:00]>> And it did. It took off again in no time. Um, right after I got went through the IOP, I got sober. I started talking to my college girlfriend who our relationship ended, you know, in my senior year area because I was partying way too much. She wasn't about that. So, I run into her again and I think, >> I'm doing great.

[00:22:26]>> And I think this is the like this is it.

[00:22:28]like had I just stayed with her back in college, I would have never went through these years of of just craziness and and torment. Um, so I begin dating her, we get engaged, we get married, but in that time I also convince her that I can drink again.

[00:22:49]Like I said, she's like, "Wow, you just went through all this stuff. Are you sure you should be drinking?" Yeah, of course. I'm fine. I'm fixed. is what is how I put it.

[00:22:59]>> Um, and again, dude, it just took off. I mean, it took off. It took off.

[00:23:06]>> How long did you drink for until you picked up a substance?

[00:23:12]>> Uh, a week, two weeks. Dude, it was quick. I mean, it that's I am a million miles an hour. So, if I'm doing it, it's all in.

[00:23:22]It's all in. I'm not just gonna dibble around here. It's all in. Of course, I'm doing it hidden. No one no one knows this. I can drink in front of her. I can drink in front of the family cuz I have them all convinced that I'm okay.

[00:23:34]>> But I'm also going to be using cocaine and whatever else I'm using behind the scenes cuz I like more and more and more.

[00:23:40]>> Y >> um >> and dude, I'm laughing because I can identify. I did the same [ __ ] that you did. One outside thing changes for the good in my life. I'm like, that's what it was. I don't have a [ __ ] problem.

[00:23:55]>> I'm good.

[00:23:56]>> I can drink. And then I drink. I I think the longest I ever made was a month drinking, but I was blacking out drinking. And then I picked up an oxy cotton.

[00:24:04]>> Absolutely.

[00:24:05]>> So go ahead. You pick up substances.

[00:24:07]>> Yeah. So I pick up substances. And this entire time too, I have like no relationship with God. I have no higher power. I have nothing at all. I'm spiritually bankrupt the entire time.

[00:24:17]>> She's your higher power.

[00:24:18]>> She's the higher power. My drugs and alcohol are my higher power. Um, and man, it took off. It took off. And I then go on to receive my second and my third DUIs in 48 hours.

[00:24:34]>> You got two in 48 hours.

[00:24:36]>> I got two in 48 hours.

[00:24:37]>> What happened?

[00:24:38]>> Yeah. So, I was struggling real bad like intervention with the family. You need to stop drinking again. Okay, I'm going to stop drinking again. I white knuckle it for like 10 days. I go visit family for the weekend.

[00:24:58]I go in the basement, find a bottle of Rumpleman's, open it, tip it up, and don't bring it back down till it's like three quarters gone. I haven't drank in 10 days. I do that. I get behind the wheel of a car. I get pulled over for rolling a stop sign. I get arrested for DUI on a Saturday.

[00:25:18]I bond out, go back home to South Suburb of Chicago.

[00:25:25]Can't believe that happened. It's like I blinked my eyes and it was from intervention to to getting released from jail. I'm back home. My family is like, "What the hell? This is un like how did this happen?"

[00:25:40]I am so like ashamed and so full of guilt and remorse and embarrassment that I just keep drinking. I don't stop. I go to work Monday. I'm drinking the whole way to work. My buddies at work are like, "Dude," and they were dear friends of mine. Uh it was out in the suburb.

[00:26:01]And they're like, "Buddy, man, you you got to stop. Like, this is this is not good. Something real bad's going to happen to you." My my AA buddies got phone calls that it happened. And I'll never >> I'll never forget the one guy said, "All right, he's alive. It happened. He's alive. You know, it could be worse. He could do it again." And I did it again.

[00:26:24]I totaled my car coming home from work.

[00:26:26]Thanks be to God I didn't hit another vehicle. But I was driving home from work and just went completely out and drove into the embankment and woke up with smoke. Car totaled. I mean, I crashed doing like 70. Uh, the red and blues spinning all over the place. And there I am again in handcuffs again.

[00:26:46]Third DUI, two of them, 48 hours. And now it's like, holy cow. Like my buddy from the program, the meeting that I was going to back then, Dicki, he, you know, he was the one that said when they found out it happened on Saturday, he's the one that said, "Well, it could be worse.

[00:27:04]He could do it again." And I did it again.

[00:27:06]>> Mhm.

[00:27:07]>> Jesus Christ. Okay. So, you now get this second DUI.

[00:27:13]>> Third.

[00:27:13]>> Well, second in 48 hours, but your third total.

[00:27:16]>> Yep.

[00:27:17]>> What happens with repercussion wise? You get >> So, I then So, now it's it's real serious. Like, that's that's prison.

[00:27:25]Mhm.

[00:27:26]>> So, I then immediately go into my first inpatient treatment. That's the first time that I I get locked away in a program. I'm there for 32 days. Uh, and of course, I had a lot of court stuff happening outside of that. And that process goes on for for some months. And it they were so close together and they were from two totally different counties of each other that like I was juggling them back and forth and they didn't really know about the other one yet cuz I had no convictions yet on it. One was like two hours away and one was right outside of Chicago. So, two different attorneys, two different locations, juggling back and forth. Uh, you know, it's a felony conviction at that time because my license was suspended when I got it. So, that was an aggravating circumstance. So, it's upgraded to a felony. And my family is like they have no idea how to even react to all this because again I was like a perfect kid growing up. I was like a model student, an athlete. I was structured, dedicated, like trustworthy. So my family's just like, "What the hell happened?" Like how did we get here?

[00:28:43]>> How is this our How is this Michael? We can't believe this is happening. So, I wind up taking a deal where I get a year.

[00:28:53]Um, I go in to serve my sentence on the first one before the second one's even done yet. I'm still That one's still ongoing. I serve my sentence. I only wind up doing like six months in jail.

[00:29:07]>> Yes. Okay. Mhm. Um I get out of that one and then immediately have to go face the other one and now they find out about that one.

[00:29:20]Yeah. But it was in a small little like farm town. So it I thought it was going to go south quick. It didn't. It didn't.

[00:29:29]Some people knew some people within the court system. I got I did I got four months on that one.

[00:29:34]>> Okay. Um, and I'm married. This all happened in my first year of marriage.

[00:29:40]>> Yeah.

[00:29:41]>> She's probably freaking out.

[00:29:44]>> Yeah. I mean, she just doesn't know what to do.

[00:29:46]>> Like, what do you do?

[00:29:47]>> Yeah.

[00:29:48]>> Um, she's making the drive out to visit me and see me. Um, so I come out of that and I go back to the program again. I have no faith life whatsoever because today that's a huge thing for me. But at back then I have nothing at all. So, I get out of my time. I come back. I get back working again. I get another engineering job. Uh, white knuckling things, but I I hold it together on this one. I hold it together for some years.

[00:30:17]Um, things get better. I have kids. I have a son and a daughter. My son, >> you stay married.

[00:30:22]>> I stay married.

[00:30:23]>> Okay.

[00:30:23]>> I stay married at this time.

[00:30:25]>> Son and daughter.

[00:30:26]>> I have a son and a daughter. What year is this? Months apart.

[00:30:29]>> So, my son Colin was born in 2011. Okay.

[00:30:33]and my daughter was born in 2013.

[00:30:35]>> Okay. So, this time you're you're white knuckling it.

[00:30:37]>> White knuckling it, but I'm I'm sober. Y I'm sober. Um but I'm I'm doing it my way. Like I have the program. I have no relationship with a higher power at all.

[00:30:50]Um and but I'm getting by. I'm getting by, but barely.

[00:30:55]>> But barely.

[00:30:56]>> Um so 2014 comes and I have to have surgery. I had broken my leg years before and had it was a terrible broken leg in a car accident. I did not get a DUI, but it was it was a result of that >> and I have to have a bunch of hardware removed from my leg. So, it was like it had been in there for a number of years.

[00:31:15]So, the surgery was really intense. They could not get it out. They got it out and I was put on pain medication.

[00:31:23]>> What' they give you?

[00:31:23]>> After the surgery, they gave me 30s, I believe.

[00:31:27]>> Oh my god. Oxy 30s, the blues >> in my head. Had been sober from drugs and alcohol for quite some time at this point. I mean, a few years.

[00:31:39]>> And then all of a sudden, my mind is filled with this substance.

[00:31:45]And it's a different substance than I'm used to. I I wasn't I never fooled around with that stuff. And it was unbelievable. It was unbelievable with how intense the feeling was, how much I liked it, like how good it made me feel.

[00:32:00]Again, that that what we talked about before, the first time I drank alcohol, that magic, it was that, but it was way way more intense.

[00:32:10]Um, and I liked it, but I didn't want anyone to know that I liked it >> because I have a reason to do this now.

[00:32:19]I have a reason because I have I have a horrible leg. I had a horrible surgery.

[00:32:23]I need this. And I do remember my mother who was a nurse being like that. I don't that's not you shouldn't be on that.

[00:32:31]That's like that's not something you should be on.

[00:32:34]And I knew it, but I justified it because I wanted it. Was the pain necessary for it? Probably not. At that point, I was okay. I was fine, but I'm going to make you think I'm not fine.

[00:32:44]>> Mhm. Um, so then but the doctors, you know, the very It wasn't long that the doctors like, you know, you're done.

[00:32:52]You're through it. Therapy's over. You don't need this anymore. I didn't pursue doctors or anything like that. No, what I did as soon as I got cut off from that medication. I know what heroin is. I know I know it's in the same family of things.

[00:33:06]It was literally the week that the doctor cut me off from that medication.

[00:33:09]I drove to the west side of Chicago for the first time on Pilaski and Willox. And anyone from Chicago watching this is going to know that exact intersection. And I bought heroin.

[00:33:22]>> Yep.

[00:33:23]>> So you pull up there, you know, and you just pull up to the block.

[00:33:27]>> You don't need to. Yeah. You don't know anyone. You don't need a phone number 24/7. You can I mean, and that was many years ago. Mhm.

[00:33:34]>> It's still that way to this day.

[00:33:36]>> Um Yeah. And I did and I I I bought my first bags. I don't remember how many I bought.

[00:33:42]>> And you sniffed it for the first time.

[00:33:43]>> Yep.

[00:33:43]>> And what was that feeling like in comparison to the Roxy's?

[00:33:48]>> It was very very similar. It was very similar to where it was like, I don't need doctors anymore.

[00:33:53]>> I don't need doctors. I don't need pills. I have a 247 pharmacy right here.

[00:33:57]I have a very good career. I make great money. So that's never a problem. I don't have to hustle. I don't have to steal.

[00:34:04]It's It's 24/7.

[00:34:06]>> Now you have this you have a great job.

[00:34:08]>> Yeah.

[00:34:09]>> And you are a very high functioning addict.

[00:34:12]>> Well, that's the thing. So now you're sniffing dope >> and you're doing it >> isolating from others. You're you're navigating through this this >> beast of an addiction.

[00:34:26]>> Yes.

[00:34:26]>> And you're high functioning at work.

[00:34:28]Absolutely.

[00:34:29]>> Take us through what your work days looked like during this time. I mean, it's just I would I would go to work. I would take care of my responsibilities.

[00:34:36]I love I love work. I love what I do. I love what I do. Um I would take care of my responsibilities every day. Nobody had a clue that I was using behind the scenes. Nobody had a clue. But as time goes on, you need to use more and more and more. So then I'm taking days off of work. You know what I mean? I'm using up my vacation time so that I can stay home and use >> and eventually that catches up. Like you you can't maintain it for that long. But I very quickly go from sniffing to injecting.

[00:35:07]>> Can you take us through the day you decided and why you decided to start?

[00:35:11]>> Well, we know it just has to do with just the intensity of it. Like it just has to do with how intense that I am. I I I'm going to do something. I'm going to take it to as push it to as close to the limit as I can. So, you know, I'm I'm relatively smart. like I'm I know if I can put this in my system this way, it's going to be much more effective than the way that I have been doing it.

[00:35:36]So, I literally just it was just that.

[00:35:38]It was nothing more than that. I said, I'm going to put this directly into my arm and and then that started a whole another I mean, that's a whole different world when you start injecting.

[00:35:49]>> Yeah.

[00:35:50]>> It it takes it to a completely different place.

[00:35:53]>> What year did you start injecting it?

[00:35:57]2014.

[00:35:58]>> Okay. So, within the first year of you even the first It was within the first couple months.

[00:36:03]>> Oh, wow.

[00:36:03]>> Few weeks. It was very like I went from >> going and buying my first bags to shooting it within >> two months.

[00:36:10]>> Got it.

[00:36:11]>> Yeah. It was immediate.

[00:36:13]>> And then >> that's a whole different ballgame then of hiding that usage and and and hiding that from family and everyone else. And and I I I for me it felt that I it would it would maintain longer. I could get by longer. I could get through a whole workday.

[00:36:28]>> Yeah.

[00:36:29]>> I could I could use in the morning, go to work, and then get home from work and continue using.

[00:36:33]>> Mhm.

[00:36:34]>> Um >> but your tolerance goes up. It hits you harder. But then your tolerance, of course. And then I'm making more trips.

[00:36:41]I'm making more trips to the city.

[00:36:43]>> I'm getting arrested now. Now I'm starting to get arrested. Now I'm starting to catch drug charges. I'm starting to go to jail a lot. I'm getting arrested all the time. I'm getting arrested because I got speeding tickets from back in the day that I never took care of because I'm being completely irresponsible. So, I'm getting arrested for driving on suspendeds. Then it's up to driving on revokes. And like if you keep racking those up, that gets really serious really quick. The state of Illinois, they will put you in prison for that.

[00:37:11]>> Like that's class 4 felony after you get so many of them.

[00:37:14]>> Yeah.

[00:37:14]>> And I was steadily heading in that direction quickly. What is your wife saying? You have kids now. Like, what are your parents? What is your family saying?

[00:37:22]>> It's it's so I'm hiding this from everybody, believe it or not. The arrests and everything cuz I'm I'm a I'm grown. I'm older. I'm out of the house.

[00:37:30]I'm married with kids. I got my own life. My family is I'm staying away from them as much as I can >> because I don't want them to know all these secrets that I have. Mhm.

[00:37:40]>> My wife is just it's a constant cycle of constantly getting arrested constantly.

[00:37:46]I'm going in and out of rehabs and trying trying to get well, getting back out there, going right back to it again.

[00:37:52]You know, I would go to rehab, meet some best friends, and then start using with the best friends as soon as I'm out of rehab.

[00:37:57]>> Yep. Been there.

[00:37:59]>> But it's also because I'm not I still have not accepted I haven't accepted the fact that I'm an addict and an alcoholic.

[00:38:06]>> Like in my head, I'm still going to figure it out. Mhm.

[00:38:10]>> With all this stuff happening around me, I'm still going to I'm still going to make this work one way or the other. I'm going to be normal.

[00:38:18]That was my That was the downfall every single time. I would not surrender to it because I'm smart. I can figure this out. I'm better than this.

[00:38:27]>> I'm not a junkie.

[00:38:29]>> Yep.

[00:38:29]>> Dude, I was a junkie.

[00:38:32]>> Junkie in every sense of the word. Quick break to remind you that if you or a loved one are struggling, you don't have to do it alone. Compassion Behavioral Health offers world-class mental health and addiction treatment. Give them a call at 844435669 or visit compassionbehavioralhealth.com.

[00:38:51]Help is waiting. Now, back to the episode.

[00:38:54]>> So, you continue shooting heroin in and out of rehab, in and out of jail. How long does this go on until 2019 when you eventually get >> 2018 is when things so I continue going on my marriage is it's done like it is there's so much damage there and thanks be to God my relationship with my ex-wife today is phenomenal we co-parent wonderfully she's super proud of me >> love that >> um it's so great for our kids I'm so grateful to God for that but like at that point so much dam damage is done.

[00:39:30]Like what do you expect? Like it just can't it's not going to work. It's not going to work.

[00:39:36]>> Um so I am at that point now we're like 2018.

[00:39:42]I am working. I am fullblown addicted.

[00:39:49]Like bad. Real bad. I have warrants out of two different counties for failure to appears.

[00:39:57]I am lying to everyone that I speak to at any point in life. Anything out of my mouth is complete garbage. It's all BS.

[00:40:08]I don't even know. I have no idea who I am anymore. I don't want to live. But I have kids, so like there's no way that I'm going to actually knowingly end my life. But every time I use, I'm hoping that maybe it's just going to that I'm just going to get taken finally and it's going to be over.

[00:40:28]>> Yeah.

[00:40:29]>> And then I get taken into custody in 2018.

[00:40:35]It was very early fall 2018. I'm 40 years old.

[00:40:43]I get taken into custody.

[00:40:46]And bro, it was like a breath of fresh air. like something happened to where I was like it's over. Like it's finally over because I was run I was going so hard for so long at that time that I just couldn't maintain the masks that I was wearing. I couldn't I couldn't maintain seeing my loved ones and having to try to like even remember the years of lies I had told. like I just couldn't do it anymore. It's like my body was failing. I had gaping holes in my arms.

[00:41:24]I was like 130 pounds. I'm six feet tall. I was like 130 lbs. Holes all over my arms. I'm wearing long sleeve shirts like dead of summer to hide everything from everyone. Like my family's like it's 90 out, you know? I'm like, "Oh, it's Nike dry fit. You know, it's good.

[00:41:41]It's good for the hot weather." No, cuz my my arms are a mess.

[00:41:46]So, I get taken into custody.

[00:41:49]I have to bounce around a few jails because I have warrants in two different counties. I finally land in Cook County in Chicago. I've been in and out of there a bunch. It's a nasty place. Um, but it's different this time. Like, I'm 40 years old and here I am again. Like, I was so embarrassed. I was so embarrassed. And like, now I'm looking at like one to three in both counties.

[00:42:14]they may not work together. I could be looking at like six years back to back.

[00:42:19]Yeah. Yeah. If they don't run them.

[00:42:23]So, I remember telling my family like, "Listen, this is what it is. Don't nobody get me an attorney. I'm this is up to me. Like, just leave me in here. I I do not want anyone to help me." I had finally That was the first time, Dude, I could cry thinking about it. I like completely gave up. I completely gave up at that point and I was like, "Whatever's going to happen is going to happen, but like this is the end. It's over.

[00:42:53]No more. I'm never going to go back to that life on the street again ever."

[00:42:59]And so I'm in Cook County Jail.

[00:43:04]My court appearance are going on.

[00:43:06]They're not shipping me back to the other county. So like I'm missing appearances there. They're like putting out warrants for my arrest in there, but I'm sitting in Cook County Jail. And my sister Amy, who's four years older than me, um, she goes to get a facial done by a dear friend of hers. Their kids go to Nunan Catholic Academy. It's a school.

[00:43:27]They go together. They know each other well, but they don't know personal details. Our name is Gina. And my sister goes to gets a facial. And Amy says to Gina, "Hey, Gina, how you doing?" And Gina's like, "Oh, you know, not too good. I got an older brother. He's a heroin addict. He's 50 years old. You know, he's he's been struggling with this his whole life. It's super sad because 10 years ago when he was 40, he had an opportunity to enter into this program called the community of Shinako.

[00:43:59]And uh he never did it. It's a program for like hardcore addicts who have like tried everything under the sun. and it's kind of like the last resort. And she's like, "He didn't do it." And look, here we are 10 years later and he's still he's still struggling and he's probably gonna die that way. And my sister like bursts into tears and she's like, "Oh my god, my little brother's in Cook County Jail right now. He's 40 and uh he's an addict real bad, but he's a really good person and he just he hasn't been able to get it together his whole life." And Gina Marie was like, "Amy, the Holy Spirit like literally brought you to my chair today. we have to go tell your brother about this program. Like I think he is called to go there because nobody knows about this place.

[00:44:46]>> So my sister and my brother-in-law, God bless him, he's the best brother-in-law on the face of the earth. He's put up with me my whole life.

[00:44:53]They come into Cook County Jail on a visit and they tell me, my sister's like, "Hey, I I really think I found a place that you're supposed to go." She's like, "It's called the community of Shinako." And I'm like, "What is that?"

[00:45:04]I had no I never heard of it before. But again, I I I truly think I had fully surrendered at that point and I was like, I'll go, but probably going to have to go do time before I go anywhere.

[00:45:19]And I was okay with that. Like I knew that that's what was in my future. My sister was like, "No, that's not God's plan for you. Like I know it that you're not supposed to do that." So then my sister began fighting in court with my public defender to try to make a deal. The state's attorney laughed at my sister when when they presented this idea. She's like, "Your brother's arrest records like three pages long. Are you kidding me?"

[00:45:48]And again, I was on I wasn't on any serious charges. I I was on I think I was at that time I was on different warrants for driving unrevoked, but like I had eight or nine of them.

[00:45:56]>> Yeah. They were racked up.

[00:45:57]>> Yeah. So now I'm looking at class four felonies, one to three years. Right when I got locked up, my public defender's like, "Dude, you're going to max out on all this because you you have violated you are a habitual offender. Like it's over. There's nothing I can do for you.

[00:46:09]It's going to be whatever it's going to be." My sister's like, "There's no way that he's not he can't this. He's got to go to this place." And we didn't even know what this place was.

[00:46:19]So Judge Steven Rosenlum in Chicago's Cook County Courts, he saw something. He saw something in me. He formed a relationship with me and he he put I was I was held on $900,000.

[00:46:36]Holy [ __ ] dude. When I was first get taken to custody, I had no bond. And then he made it so high because he said, "If you bond out, you are going to die."

[00:46:47]Like, you are that bad where if you go back on the streets, chances are is I'm never going to see you again because you're going to die. So, I'm going to make your bond so high that there's no chance you get out. And it worked. Um, so my sister starts bringing this program into Judge Rosen Bloom's mind. We begin discussing it.

[00:47:08]He agrees to the deal. He's going to release me from custody after I complete the drug program in Cook County Jail, which they have one in there, which prepares guys when they go out. And the stipulation is he's got to complete the program. It was like 90 days long. Um, and upon release, he has got like 48 hours to report down there. And then he's going to have me on conditional discharge via the Department of Corrections for the next three years.

[00:47:37]So, the deal's made. I'm going to go.

[00:47:41]This is when I begin like actually having a conversation with God like every day.

[00:47:46]Like I never did that before. I would have foxhole prayers. God, please get me out of this jail cell. God, please get me out of this DUI. God, please don't let me die. Please get me out of this trap house alive. Like over and over and over again. But I never ever started to like actually open up my heart and talk with him about like what is your will for me? Like I should have been dead a hundred times over, but I'm not. And I'm not special, but like what is it? Why am I still alive? I tried to end my own life.

[00:48:24]I had an overdose.

[00:48:26]What year was it?

[00:48:29]2015.

[00:48:30]I had an overdose.

[00:48:34]Or it might have been before that. I was We were at a family function downtown.

[00:48:38]I'm sorry. It's pump popping in my head.

[00:48:40]>> No, you're good. You're good. Tell the story.

[00:48:41]>> We had a family function. We were downtown.

[00:48:45]My aunts, uncles, cousins, everybody's there.

[00:48:49]I was the one, hey, who needs drinks?

[00:48:51]Who needs drinks? I'm going to go. It was St. Patrick's Day downtown, the the Irish parade. I'll go get Every time I would go get drinks, I'm slamming like Guinness. Like, every time I would go get my family drinks, I'm down in two or three as fast as I can and go back.

[00:49:05]Nobody knows.

[00:49:07]So then at some point, and I have no recollection of any of this, at some point I leave the hotel. Okay, it's like I blinked. I left the hotel and I wake up in Northwestern ER in downtown Chicago again.

[00:49:26]I wake up and there's a nurse with her like hand on my shoulder. And as soon as I come up, she like starts yelling, "He's awake. He's awake. He's awake."

[00:49:34]And a doctor rushes in and this doctor is like trying to tell me, "Do you have any idea how like dead you were? They narcan me six times to bring me out of an overdose that I don't even remember doing."

[00:49:50]The only reason I know what I did was I was out on bond. When I woke when I woke up in that hospital, the first thing was I got to get out of here. I'm out on bond. Why am I in a hospital? They cut all my clothes off me because I was like gone.

[00:50:05]I went in my pockets and I found bags.

[00:50:07]And because of the print on the bag, I knew that at some point I left my family, got in a cab, went all the way to the west side, cpped and the only reason I knew exactly where I cpped.

[00:50:20]That was at Lexington and Palaski.

[00:50:22]That's where I I knew guys there was cuz the zebra print on the bag and it was duct tape. I knew exactly where I had to go. I don't remember doing it.

[00:50:31]I used in the back of that cab and overdosed in the back of the cab. The cab driver drove his cab into the ambulance port at Northwestern and they dragged me out of the back of the cab into the ER and resuscitated me.

[00:50:46]So within a blink of an eye and then fast forward a couple hours, I'm then running out of the hospital to get away from there before police might show up to question me. And I'm back at the hotel with my family wearing a blue paper suit from the hospital because they cut my clothes off and no one knew where I went. So in a matter of hours I was with my family, left, died, was brought back to life and showed back up at the family gathering.

[00:51:15]>> Oh my god. Yeah, >> dude. I have anxiety just [ __ ] here.

[00:51:20]>> Yeah, I mean I do too thinking of it. I I I don't I meant to talk about that earlier cuz that was like a very thinking back on that moment. Like I said, there were so many instances where I was dead.

[00:51:32]>> Mhm.

[00:51:33]>> But like as I sat in that jail cell, I'm thinking to myself, there has to be a purpose somewhere here. There has to be a purpose for this. I've been doing this for so long.

[00:51:45]I can't do it anymore, but I don't I want to live. Like it was the first time where I wanted to stay alive.

[00:51:51]Up to that point, I could have cared less whether I woke up on any given day.

[00:51:56]But now, I wanted to live. I had two babies.

[00:52:00]So, it's right before Christmas. I'm still in the program in Cook County Jail, and that place is just nuts. I mean, it's wild. It's like I've been in and out of jail so much in my life, but like I've seen a lot of really bad things, but like the worst thing for me is like just the sheer hopelessness you see in there. It's awful. Like there is so many people in there that need so much help that are never going to get it ever that their lives are going to be nothing more than that until they die.

[00:52:34]To me, that's heartbreaking.

[00:52:36]>> Yeah.

[00:52:38]So, okay, you eventually get out.

[00:52:42]>> This is this is where I'm This is what I'm getting to >> because your sobriety date was January.

[00:52:46]>> This is another This is another thing.

[00:52:47]It's right before Christmas time. Okay.

[00:52:50]>> Now, things would things would happen in the jail. This is when I start recognizing that like the devil in the dark dark side of things is wants to sabotage anything that's good. It wants to get in the way of guys like you and I helping other people. He wants the devil wants addicts to die. That is his goal.

[00:53:09]That's that's the end goal for everything with him. So, he's trying to sabotage me. There's things that pop off in the jail, fights and stuff like that and craziness to where I think I'm going to get kicked out of the program. Oh my god, if I get kicked out of the program, the judge is going to revoke my deal.

[00:53:24]I'm going to go to DOC.

[00:53:27]And at this point now, like now I don't want to let my family down. Like my family was pulling for me so hard. So it's it's like this it's the week before Christmas. It's like 3:30 in the morning. My cell pops. CEO's like, "Supac, you got court call." And I'm like, "No, I don't." He's like, "Yeah, you got court call." I'm like, "No, I don't. My I already signed my deal.

[00:53:48]We're I'm done. I'm just completing my program and I I got something I'm going to." He's like, "You're getting ready and you're getting on the bus." And I'm like, "What is going on?" So I grab an inmate. I'm like, "Listen, when they turn the phones on, you got to call my sister. I don't know what's going on, but I'm going to court today and I don't know what for. Now my mind's racing.

[00:54:07]What happened? Like, did something from my past pop up? Like, did they find something out that I did and I you know what I mean? Like, I'm thinking a lot of really crazy stuff.

[00:54:19]Um, so I get I get on the bus, I get down there. It's an all day affair to get to court. I'm going to this courtroom, that courtroom. It's the wrong one. I'm trying to talk to the CEO like, "What is going on? I'm not even supposed to be here." He's like, "I don't know what's going on, but your judge is mad." And I'm like, "Oh my god, what happened?"

[00:54:38]Courtroom opens up. I walk in. There's an attorney standing at my podium that I have never seen before. I see my sister.

[00:54:44]She's there. And I can tell she's been crying. And I'm like, "What is going on?" Every year around Christmas time, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who just passed away recently, he was like a civil rights activist in Chicago, >> he chooses 10 inmates out of like the 8,000, 9,000 inmates that are in Cook County Jail. He chooses 10 inmates and petitions for release to be with their families on holiday on Christmas time.

[00:55:10]They have to be non-violent offenses with like really high bonds. Well, I was sitting in there on like a driving on revoke charge, but my bond was like 900,000.

[00:55:20]So, I was one of 10 that was chosen for early release out of the 9,000 inmates.

[00:55:26]And the judge was livid because here's this attorney representing for my release. She knows nothing about my background. She knows nothing about the deal that me and the judge already have worked out this amazing opportunity that's in front of me. And he is like ripping her apart in the courtroom.

[00:55:43]Like, do you have any idea what could happen to him if he were to get out right now and be exposed to all the damage he caused in his family? He very well could go run back out and use and die because of you. It was crazy. I was the only one out of the 10 that got back on that bus and went back to Cook County Jail.

[00:56:03]>> Oh my god.

[00:56:04]>> And I loved it. I love I was completely fine with it.

[00:56:08]>> I remember Judge saying, "Michael, you and I came up with a great plan, didn't we?" Yes, sir, we did. Are you looking forward to this? Yes, sir, I am. Do you have hope? Yes, sir, I do. Because I did.

[00:56:18]>> Because I did. I didn't care about getting out and going to be with my family for Christmas.

[00:56:22]>> For the first time in my life, I had hope like maybe something's going to going to happen for me.

[00:56:27]>> Yeah.

[00:56:28]>> So then I I get out. I got out January 4th or 5th. I had to be down in Florida within 48 hours. So I came down to St. Augustine where the community of Shinako is. I had like an orientation for three days and then I entered into the program on January 9th of 2019 and I say that as my I use that as my sobriety date when I left the street life and all that because that is the day that I committed to finally changing. So I entered into this program where you give up everything. There is no cell phones, no computers, no TVs, no newspapers, no magazines.

[00:57:13]You don't wear a watch. There's nothing.

[00:57:16]You wash your clothes in a five gallallon bucket by hand.

[00:57:21]It was founded by a nun over 40 years ago who felt a calling from God to help addicts struggling in the darkness of addiction. And she dedicated her life to God's work through that. It is super regimented. It's the Catholic faith, which I was raised in, but I never practiced. You know, I'm covered in tattoos and ran the streets for 20 years. Like, I had no idea what it was about.

[00:57:45]But I I stayed in that program for three years.

[00:57:49]>> You lived there for three years?

[00:57:50]>> I lived there for three years.

[00:57:52]>> So from 2019, January 2022, >> January to 2022, I stayed in that program for three years.

[00:58:00]>> No cell phone, nothing. nothing and my entire life transformed.

[00:58:08]We pray we pray the rosary three I didn't even know what a rosary was.

[00:58:13]It's a very regimented prayer life.

[00:58:16]It there's no worldly things. So you are there's no distractions. So whatever wounds and poverties you have inside, they're going to come up and you have no choice but to deal with them. Like they are going to be in your face. You're going to see yourself in a way you've never seen before because there's no distractions whatsoever. We pray the rosary three times a day. We get up at 6:00 a.m. There's a 55 acre property.

[00:58:41]It's hot. It's swampy. You work all day.

[00:58:46]We have a very structured prayer life. I didn't even know how to pray.

[00:58:51]We pray the rosary. You go to mass. you go to adoration where you sit in front of the blessed sacrament which is Jesus and you sit in prayer like with him >> and again I didn't know what this stuff was but the longer I stayed there the more things started to change within me like my heart started shifting my heart started changing every like few months I'd get like the itch to leave and like maybe I could leave and go back to Chicago and and petition the courts and be like hey I've been here for six months I'm good now.

[00:59:25]The longest program I was ever in before was 30 days in inatient treatment.

[00:59:30]But every time that point came, like God was working in my life and I began to like like no man, you got to keep going.

[00:59:38]There's more to do. Like there's more change. And while I was doing that, my family was in the they have a program for the parents who meet with a group every first Saturday of the month. So while I was journeying in there, my my parents and who Melissa who was my girlfriend before I went away to this program, who stayed with me for the entire thing, she was journeying in the family program and we were doing it together at the same time but like completely separated >> and through through this like through my Catholic faith and through like the neverending mercy and forgiveness of God Like my heart completely transformed.

[01:00:24]Like I began I was always insecure. Like I talked about in the beginning. I learned to like love myself for who I am. Like I'm an I'm an addict. That's who I am. And that's okay. Like it's all right. I can have a very very very fruitful, very happy life being that. But living it, abstaining from running in the streets like I did for so many years. So the more I kept going, the more things began to change for me. And then when the it came time for me to exit, I came home, dude, I was bankrupt. I had to fight to to see my kids again, like I was being made to look like this excon who was a junkie and all this stuff, which I was. I was all those things. I had like a I had like a hurricane of damage that I had created before I left that I had to clean up.

[01:01:16]But because I had this relationship with God now, I was able to navigate through all those crazy difficult situations through my faith and I've been able to like build a life for myself today with my faith. My family's in the faith as well that I never thought possible for a guy like me.

[01:01:37]>> Dude, I was as bad of a drug addict as I've known. And I did it for so long that I began to like just accept the fact that I was gonna die a junkie.

[01:01:48]But like that's not the case. That's not the case at all.

[01:01:52]>> Had you seen your kids during those three years or No.

[01:01:55]>> No.

[01:01:56]>> Did you see your family during those three years?

[01:01:57]>> I saw them a couple times.

[01:01:58]>> Okay. So there were like some instances where >> So they had like they have like a a family retreat which is why I'm down here. Yep. now because they just had it this past weekend and I went and helped speak at it and stuff. So they would come to those things. So like every six months or so they would come into a festival but like in the beginning you have zero contact. I had no contact with anybody for like six months and then even at that point just a postcard.

[01:02:25]They're allowed to send a postcard with with a message on it. That's it. That's it.

[01:02:30]So when they first saw me, my mom's like, "You had this light in your eyes that I that I don't even remember seeing before." Like they could I couldn't see it in myself, but my parents saw it.

[01:02:39]Melissa saw it. So they began to see like something's changing in them.

[01:02:44]>> Yeah.

[01:02:44]>> And it's different than before.

[01:02:47]>> Talk a little bit about You get out after 3 years. It's January 2022. You're no longer in the system.

[01:02:54]>> No.

[01:02:54]>> You go back to Chicago.

[01:02:56]>> Yes. What was that transition like? You talked a little bit. You had to file for bankruptcy. Yeah. Work-wise. Like just go through what it was like transitioning back and especially you're going back now. I don't care if it's 3 days, 3 months, or 3 years. You're going back to where you used to use the environment. What was that like?

[01:03:15]>> So, in the program, they always say like don't go back. Don't go back where you come from. A lot of guys that have journeyed through that program have stayed in St. Augustine and started their lives there, which is phenomenal.

[01:03:26]But I had kids. So like one of my vocations is a father. So I had to go back. Um yeah, and everybody was nervous about that for sure because I'm going right back into the belly of the beast where I ran around for two decades. Um it was nerve-wracking, but I felt like, you know, God gave me the graces to go back and be a father and it was scary.

[01:03:48]Um but I immediately maintained the prayer life that I had learned in community that became part of me. My family does it. So I I I extended that outside of the community. Now I came home. Uh I work in the city so I I did not feel comfortable going back to work downtown right away. I just thought that's probably not the best idea right off the rip. Let's like get adjusted. So I I'm very very handy. I be Yeah. I opened up a remodeling business. I began doing contracting, bathrooms, kitchens, basement, stuff like that. Um, and I did that for a couple of years and and over that time, you know, I got got to see my start seeing my kids again. And that that was a very very very like awkward transition cuz they were very little when I left. Now they're three years bigger and dad's been away now. So, it was very awkward in the beginning. But like again, God was there the whole time and like got us through these phases and like things started to grow.

[01:04:49]>> So after a couple of years, I married Melissa and I got married.

[01:04:53]>> Congratulations.

[01:04:54]>> Yes. Thank you. Um she's amazing. She's like a saint.

[01:04:57]>> Yeah, I just met her. She She seems wonderful.

[01:05:00]>> But everything I went through some of the most difficult times of my life, honestly, right when I came home, it was cleaning up the wreckage of my past. I mean, dude, I haven't drank alcohol in years. I have a blow device in my truck because of all those DUIs. I never I never did what I was supposed to do. So, I come home, I start petitioning the Secretary of State to see if I can drive and stuff, and they're like, "We don't care if you've been sober for this many years. You You never did what you were supposed to do." So, I had to do all that stuff all over again. And I got a blow device in my truck for five years.

[01:05:37]>> But it's okay. It's okay. Hey, it did. I didn't I'm blessed to have that opportunity.

[01:05:41]>> Yeah.

[01:05:42]>> Um so I was able to like navigate all those real difficult moments, the bankruptcy, the getting back in the city and stuff, I navigated them in a very healthy way. Whereas before all those stressors and like having to see all the damage that I created, that would have made me run right back out because I don't like to feel those things.

[01:06:04]But now I have God's grace to where I can I can feel those things. I can accept them and process them and it's okay. Like I I can work through them healthy and I worked every single one of them out. And then after contracting for two years, a great opportunity showed itself for me to get back into building engineering and I jumped on it. And that's where I'm at to this day. And it's I have an amaz I work for an amazing company. My boss is amazing. I work in a really cool part of the city.

[01:06:31]>> I love it. I love it. I have a life today that I literally never thought possible for a guy like me.

[01:06:37]>> Yeah.

[01:06:37]>> Like I don't I don't feel deserving of it.

[01:06:40]>> But like my past doesn't haunt me like it used to.

[01:06:43]>> I have my moments. I'm sure you do, too.

[01:06:45]I'll think back and be, God, man. I was a piece of garbage for a while there.

[01:06:48]>> Yeah.

[01:06:49]>> But it doesn't it doesn't define who I am anymore.

[01:06:52]>> No, it definitely does not.

[01:06:53]>> No.

[01:06:54]>> Talk a little bit about you found God.

[01:06:58]Mh.

[01:06:58]>> You have this life where >> you come home 3 years later >> and you have all this chaos, all the wreckage of the past that you're dealing with, but because you're so in touch with God >> Mhm.

[01:07:12]>> you're taking the back seat and you're letting God >> drive.

[01:07:18]>> Absolutely.

[01:07:18]>> And one of the craziest things that I struggled with, I I struggle with it on a daily basis still. all not perfect, but I always liked to control everything. I have to handle that. I got to do this. I got to do that. What if the outcome's like that? What if the outcome is like that? And it creates that chaos. And then that's when the big feelings start to >> take over me and I need to numb them out with something else.

[01:07:45]>> A way to prevent that is taking your will out of a situation, letting there's action that you do need to take. Don't just take no action. You have to take some action. Absolutely.

[01:07:56]>> But the results business is not up to you. No, >> it's up to God.

[01:08:00]>> 100%.

[01:08:01]>> And >> how a lot of people when they have drug addiction are like, "No, I'm only going to go away for 30 days or no, I'm not going away. I'm going to go work a pro."

[01:08:12]And they try to control situations and they end up right back where they were and it prolongs the process and some people die because they never get it.

[01:08:21]What was it like for you after 3 years?

[01:08:24]You're in a controlled environment.

[01:08:27]You're enriching your religious life and your your conscious contact with God.

[01:08:32]>> You're now put in the game, right? Going back into Chicago after 3 years. You're in a controlled environment. You're back in Chicago. What was it like now taking your will out of a situation?

[01:08:45]It was see the communities what what community proposes community shaka proposes was so burnt into me and is to this day. Yeah.

[01:08:54]>> That when I left I didn't struggle with like turning my will over to God.

[01:08:59]>> I I learned to trust in his will for me and that helped me like navigate those really difficult situations like with my kids like it had been a long time the courts you know they saw that I had to go away. That doesn't look good. So, like I wanted things to happen right away. Like, no, I just did this. I just changed my life. I want to have these rights back right now. The courts don't necessarily And that's okay. Like, I I was able to accept what it was. I didn't like it. It it it made me feel a whole bunch of ways that I didn't enjoy, but I I brought it to prayer.

[01:09:35]>> I brought it to prayer and found peace in that. I brought it to my faith and found acceptance in that to where I trusted in God's will for for me as a father, for me as a husband, for me as a son, a brother, a worker. I trusted in his will for all those things that eventually it just like happened >> and it happened exactly how it was supposed to happen. I can get in the way of God's will every time if I'm if I let myself and I can I can al also mistake my will for God's will and think well this is what he wants for me. That's not how it works. That's not how it works.

[01:10:18]So I've I've been I I'm blessed that I have the ability to recognize that now and I can get out of my way. I don't do it perfectly. Absolutely not, man. I mean if I fall off my prayer life, I can very easily start running rough again.

[01:10:31]you know, my wife can see it. Like, hey, what are we doing here? We have to go to adoration. We let's pray the rosary.

[01:10:37]Let's do this. These are things that we do.

[01:10:40]>> I know people in the comments will probably like, oh, faith, this, that, and the other. Dude, I don't care.

[01:10:44]>> This is what for me, >> okay? Like I said, I ran the streets for 20 years hard. Okay? And this is what changed my life 100%. I am different today than I was before addiction even entered into my life. I am not the same person anymore, nor will I ever be.

[01:11:04]>> The community completely changed who I was. God changed who I am. My heart is completely different now. So I I navigate everything keeping that in mind. Every time something comes up that I don't like something at work or this that or the other. I try to step out of the way and be like God's will will be done. I have to learn to accept it and follow through with it. And whatever the outcome is, it's going to be and I can deal with it. I can deal with it in a healthy way. It's a beautiful story. It is. It's your story. It's a beautiful story. And for you to be a hopeless drug addict to change your life completely, >> it's beautiful.

[01:11:40]>> Yeah. I mean, >> anyone can change.

[01:11:41]>> Anybody can change, man. I mean, I saw so many guys travel through with me that like left. Dude, four guys that I lived with in that time are dead today.

[01:11:51]>> They're dead today >> because they took their will back.

[01:11:53]>> They took their will back and now their lives are gone. And I lived with all of them. Like if I made it, if you made it, anybody can make it. But more importantly, like it's possible. If you are hopeless and completely just hopeless that your life's ever going to change from addiction, it can. It can. If I'm sitting here today talking to you, anybody can, dude.

[01:12:18]It's It's possible for anyone. And the community of Shinako changed my entire life. And the craziest thing about it, dude, it runs off of the providence of God. It didn't I didn't pay a penny for the three years.

[01:12:32]>> Wow.

[01:12:32]>> That I stayed there. It runs off donations from families and friends of the community who believe in it. God's providence. God always provides.

[01:12:41]>> I probably was involved in a couple million dollars worth of construction while I was there and building housing, a chapel, a repatory. It's the the grounds are beautiful for more guys to have beds. There's a girl's house as well.

[01:12:55]>> There's over 70 houses all over the world now.

[01:13:00]It started in Saluto, Italy, and now it's worldwide. It's all over South America, all over Europe.

[01:13:05]>> Wow.

[01:13:05]>> Mhm.

[01:13:06]>> One of the most important things that you did say was acceptance. Yeah.

[01:13:09]>> And accepting the process.

[01:13:12]>> I want to speed up the process. Listen, I'm a junkie at heart.

[01:13:16]>> Yeah.

[01:13:16]>> I want results, results, results now.

[01:13:20]>> Today. And that's not always the case.

[01:13:23]Once I was able to accept certain situations and trust the process, and that's the God thing, >> God's will for me, not my own, >> things started to change. And every single time I trust the process, I accept things the way they are.

[01:13:39]>> And I take my will out of a situation, I always look back, whether it's a year later, whether it's 18 months later, and I look at the person I have become.

[01:13:50]>> Yeah. And it changes you. It absolutely does. It's a beautiful process.

[01:13:53]>> It is.

[01:13:54]>> Really quick, take us through how's the relationship with your kids today?

[01:14:00]>> My relationship with my kids today is amazing. It's absolutely amazing. Of course, the wife and I are divorced, but like, thanks be to God, we are on phenomenal terms. We have a great co-parenting relationship today. I am so blessed to have her as my kid's mother because she is such a good mom. They're at Joshua Tree National Forest in California right now on spring break.

[01:14:23]>> We co-parent great. We work with each other. She has a great relationship with my wife, my current wife. It is. And my children know about my past. Like I talk to them about who dad used to be and like what God helped dad overcome in life and try to teach them that like, you know, you're going to come on come across hardships in life and that you can get through them. Absolutely. God will carry you through them if you open up your heart to him.

[01:14:48]>> Yeah.

[01:14:49]>> But yeah, my I'm super involved with my kids. Uh they mean the world to me. I have two stepdaughters as well. My two older stepdaughters, Olivia and Edison, that I love them just as equally as if they're my own. And >> that's amazing.

[01:15:02]>> Melissa and I try to live our lives as examples to them because my wife is very in the faith as well. Try to live our lives as examples to them as to, you know, what is important in life. We can all get caught up in materialistic worldly things and try to fill our lives with happiness through that. But when the reality is, you know, when I was in community, I lived such a simple life. I had nothing. I had nothing. You're not allowed to have anything. I had nothing at all. And I was truly happy in those moments. Sometimes happier than I am outside. You know what I mean? It's like we can find true happiness in life with next to nothing if our hearts are in the right place. There's so many distractions today. So many distractions. Social media, phones, TVs, connected TVs, tablets, >> daytoday life. Um, before we wrap up, >> have a little fun.

[01:15:53]>> What is the craziest thing you have ever seen? I'm sure you saw many, but if you had to pick one, what was the craziest thing you ever saw in jail?

[01:16:03]Oh man. I mean it I've >> Cook County I heard is >> Dude, I've been in >> it's the Rikers of Chicago.

[01:16:09]>> I've been in so many of them that I have stories for days all over. But probably one of the wildest things I ever saw was a uh an inmate who was trans and he was a she. Um, and there was a lot of chirping going on and her I think her name I think she went by Morgan and uh she beat the brakes off this dude like in front of everybody and it was hilarious to see cuz >> oh my god >> long dreads make up the whole bit and like beat the brakes off this dude in front of everybody. So that didn't that didn't turn out too good.

[01:16:49]>> Humbled that guy.

[01:16:51]>> Oh big time. Big time. That was one of the funniest things. But I mean, like, dude, there's so much like hopelessness and despair in there that like it's the it's the worst thing ever. It's just it's just a it's a revolving cycle of of non-stop. It's it's super sad. It's super sad. And I was in there a lot. So, I saw it all the time.

[01:17:09]>> In the moment, you know, I don't notice it. Now, looking back on it, it's And a lot of those guys lives will unfortunately never change because they're never going to be given the opportunities to get the help.

[01:17:18]>> Yeah.

[01:17:19]>> Well, thank God you never have to live that way anymore.

[01:17:21]>> Never again. Thanks be to God, >> dude. I want to thank you for coming on.

[01:17:24]Your story is going to help so many people.

[01:17:26]>> I hope so. I hope so. If anyone wants to check out the community of Shinaklo, uh a hope reborn.org >> and you can check it out, man. And it's uh it's a it's a magical place, dude.

[01:17:37]It's so special. And like I said, I ran the streets for a long time, tried everything under the sun, and I truly found transformation there. So, >> it's a beautiful thing. Uh I want to thank you again, and if people want to get in contact with you, how can they do that? Um, >> no. I don't want anyone talking to me.

[01:17:54]>> No, you can't. Absolutely.

[01:17:55]>> Are you on social media?

[01:17:56]>> I am on social media. I'm actually I want to get something going up in my city to try to spread awareness about addiction and and try to spread awareness about how to get help for it and whatnot. So, I started a couple pages on Instagram, Tik Tok. There's nothing on there yet because I'm just just getting going with it. Um, it's unbreakable 24:13 and that's based off of the verse Matthew 24:13. He who endures to the end shall be saved. And that's like uh burnt into my heart because there was an old black guy when I was in Cook County Jail who was sitting next to me in a bullpen right before I was getting processed out. And he literally I have the Bible to this day. He handed over this little DOC Bible to me and pointed to that verse and from that day on it is just stuck in my head. He who endured to the end shall be saved. So on uh Instagram, Tik Tok and I have a Gmail account unbreakable 2413@gmail.

[01:18:49]Yeah, feel free anybody to reach out. I am willing to help in any way that I possibly can and spread the word of community and in a place where you can truly go transform your life and and form a relationship with God.

[01:19:01]>> Well, thank you for everything that you're doing.

[01:19:02]>> Thanks, Kevin. I appreciate what you're doing, too, man. You're you're helping and saving a lot of people. Thank you.

[01:19:06]>> Thank you again.

[01:19:10]I just got to go.