This video presents a debate between Christian Prince (a Christian apologist) and a Muslim debater about Islamic theology, focusing on the apparent contradiction between divine decree (Allah's predetermined guidance and misguidance) and human free will. The debater argues that if Allah has already decided who will be guided and who will be misled, then human effort and choice become meaningless, as stated in Quranic verses like Surah An-Nisa 4:88 which says 'Allah is the one who misguides those He chooses.' The debate explores whether this makes Islam a religion of fatalism or if there is genuine human agency within divine will.
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The Most Feared Arab Muslim Debater Faces Christian Prince in a Long-Awaited DebateAdded:
Hello.
>> Can you hear me?
>> Yes. Uh, Mr. Iban, how are you?
>> I'm well. How are you?
>> I'm very fine. Welcome to our program.
You know, we have a lot of people here on YouTube and we would like to hear from you something good about Islam. So, what do you like to tell us? I heard that you converted 42 people to into into Islam. Is that correct?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's correct.
>> All right. Maybe today you can make me number 43. Go ahead, please.
>> What's 43? This >> I mean you just say you told them that you converted 42 people into Islam. So I'm saying maybe you can make me number 43 who convert to Islam.
>> Okay. Why not?
>> Sure. Go ahead.
>> Inshallah. Inshallah. Go ahead.
>> Okay. Okay. Wait. Wait. By the way, who are you first? Uh >> my name is a Christian. Should I show you my ID?
No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not. Okay.
But, uh, but where are you from?
>> Uh, you know, depend. Right now, I am in America. So, I am an American right now.
>> But you're original from America.
>> Are you American? Original?
>> No, originally I am Yeah, I am from India.
>> India?
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, okay. Nice. And you wait you said you go to to YouTube.
>> Yeah I go to YouTube sometime YouTube come to me I don't demand my friend.
What this have to do with our topic? Go ahead tell me something good about Islam.
>> Did you reward my sound?
>> Yes everybody. Everybody we are in YouTube.
>> No no no.
>> We we are live.
>> Recorded please.
>> Well you have to hang up then because because this is in YouTube. We are live on air. No, no, because because I I do not like that.
>> Okay, don't then hang up. Okay, hang up.
>> I do not.
>> Okay, take care.
>> I do not like famous.
>> All right, no problem. But >> you don't like to be famous. Okay. Yeah.
>> Yeah. But by the way, my friend Christian, I said first, nice to meet you.
>> Thank you very much.
>> And uh and uh inshallah, you are humble and I'm not here to to to insult Christians.
>> No problem. No problem. My friend, if you want to stay with us, my friend, even if you want to stay with us, the issue is you are saying you don't like to be recorded. We are live in YouTube and this is not a choice. So, if you don't like to be recorded, please hang up. Hang up.
>> Uh uh otherwise, stay with us and then people will hear you. We have more than almost 225 people listening right now.
>> No, no, I do not. I do not. Okay. Take care. Okay. Take care. Okay. Take care, my friend. Asalam alaikum. Bye-bye.
You don't want to be famous. You are famous already.
Where are you from?
Why you are calling back?
Yes. Uh uh Eban, I thought you don't like to be famous.
>> Hello.
>> To be famous. Um I want to discuss you >> my friend. But if you want to talk to me, you will be recorded because right now I am live in YouTube. I am live in YouTube.
>> No no no.
>> What I can I mean this is the only way.
So don't don't call me then my friend.
Don't call me. I am live in YouTube.
People are hearing us. All right. If you want if it's okay for you to be recorded and to be in YouTube >> friends.
Christian nice. Nice. You tell me the truth.
>> I like that. And nice. Yeah. Nice.
>> No. I thought my friend she told she she told you already because we are live in YouTube my friend. We are not playing games. We are live in YouTube. If you like to stay you are more than welcome.
But but But but but but Christian why why do not ask or discuss about about the Christians and Islam >> we can >> without famous you see my friend my friend I am here to talk to the people who they are my friends I have more almost 300 people are there so I'm talking to them I don't know who I don't know you you are coming to call me or not I'm talking to them already and I it's going to be rude for me to hang up on them and just to talk to you I mean I have imagine you have a house you have 300 people you are talking to you and then you say to them bye-bye because I have I want to talk to you know what I mean >> sure yeah I understand when and but but you want to help please help first yourself and like like I am when when I want to help I directly I will help myself >> no problem when when when you died when you died you go to hell or you go go to paradise >> okay that That what what I said >> you know my friend >> Islam why why come Islam Islam why come Islam Islam come >> to worship of Allah subhana tala >> and who is Allah >> who do who is Allah >> okay who is Allah that's Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala said >> who is me and you worship him Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala living in in in sky >> in sky >> Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala >> okay what what does mean what isa I mean what what mean?
>> That means >> Okay. You know Arabic?
>> Yeah, I speak Arabic. Sure.
>> You know I told you that my friend I'm asking you now what is tawa mean? Are you surprised? You mentioned something to me. No my friend Allah said no that's another question I'm asking you my friend.
>> Yeah yeah yeah yeah that means who is Allah.
>> Noah you said Allahawa Allah. What does that mean? You are the one who mentioned this.
>> He is on the throne. What is mean?
My friend, do you want to to tell me tell to tell you in in English you cannot understand?
>> No, no, tell me I will understand. Don't worry, tell me in English what mean?
Translate please. Because I understand as I understand not even a single Muslim know what does that mean? So why you are saying to me that Allah when we ask the Muslim what's mean? Nobody knows.
>> No no no no. Do you know who tell you?
Who tell you that?
>> Okay. Give me the answer. Go ahead. Give me the answer. What's the mean?
>> Okay. Okay. Now, now by the way, >> I I I I disc I discuss you because you are you are believer.
>> You are not atheist, >> right? I'm not an atheist.
>> No, you're not. Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. When Okay. When Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala I want to talk in an Arabic, you understand Arabic, >> my friend. You see that? Yes. When you spoke to Renee, the the girl he she invited you here. She said that you were listening to me in live broadcast in her room. So you know I speak English. You know that it was in English and you agreed to come to speak in English and now you want to speak in Arabic. So please explain to us in English because all my audience are English people. They don't speak Arabic. I'm the only one who speak little Arabic. So what the word mean?
>> Okay. Nice. our first when I say Allah in holy Quran said okay that's uh that's what's said in English you understand >> no what does that mean still you're not giving an answer what's tawa meanwa subhana >> what does that mean What? What is the position? What he's doing? He is sitting. He is standing.
>> Yeah. What is What is What is that?
>> No. No. Okay. Means Okay. Means means Okay. I want to tell you when I said this land this land you you said no this is land about me. Okay. I I I said give me your when I said for example when when when you say this house it's me.
Okay. And I said give me your proof. You what? Give me papers. This is this is house is you. Okay, you understand now?
That means in Arabic means Allah subhana wa tala that's what means >> what you know my friend what is this is this is a throne he jump on the throne how he jump what he do is he standing is he sitting is he sleeping explain to us you did not tell me until now what is mean and I am telling you not even one Muslim in the whole universe can tell me what does that mean because you Muslims are afraid to say that Allah is sitting in the throne. Is that correct?
>> Is he sitting? Is he standing? Okay. So Allah now in the throne. What what this verse saying that Allah he is on the throne? How he is in the throne? It says what is tawa mean? Sitting, standing, sleeping. Give me a notion.
How can Allah subhanahu wa'ta'ala?
>> This is not the question.
>> How can I How can I? No, no, no, no. I want to answer you, but you do not want to to to Allah say Allah Do do not sleep >> my friend.
>> By the way, >> my friend, this is not a question.
>> And and Allah subhana wa ta'ala and and Allah subhana wa ta'ala you cannot you cannot you cannot uh believe him not believe him. You cannot ask about how Allah subh not like not not like Bible when Bible say >> so you cannot so you cannot okay let us make it simple. So you do not know. No.
>> So you do not know. You are I asked you how Allah is sitting in the I asked you how. Yeah. Listen listen.
>> No you do not know. Okay. How Allah sitting in? Let me repeat the question.
You said to me no one is like Allah.
This is not my question. I don't know. I don't care if Allah no one like him or not. I'm asking you how he is sitting in the chair. Can you tell me instead of giving all this speech? You do not know.
>> A Christian. A Christian. Are you are you Arab >> my friend? Doesn't matter where I'm from. Doesn't matter where I'm from.
What does this have to do with the question?
>> No, no, no, no. Because you >> my friend I speak Arabic I speak Arabic better better than anyone you ever heard of. This is not the question I'm asking now. What is tawa mean?
>> What does tawa mean?
>> Means what does that mean? You guys I say to him what does mean? He says Allahawa.
This is not the answer. What is mean?
What Allah did? Allah in the throne doing what? What is that exactly? What he's doing? He's riding the throne. He is sitting on the throne. He is laying down. He's doing yoga. What does mean?
>> I want to tell you.
>> Okay.
Mhm.
What have to do with my topic?
Okay.
Okay. Now said can you translate?
>> Okay.
Can you translate please?
>> You you know Arabic >> my friend the audience all the people on YouTube I have I have 300 people in YouTube listening. They want to understand what you said.
>> Go ahead in English please. So Allah Allah is in the chair. You said Allah is in the throne and his his feet is in the chair. What does that mean? He's reclining. He is doing yoga massage.
>> My my friend my friend, please. No, no YouTube.
>> My friend, I am in YouTube already. You don't want to talk. Hang up. I told you from the beginning. I am in YouTube.
>> No, no, no, no YouTube. No.
>> It's not a chance. Then hang up. You are trying to to escape the answer. You see, you see guys, I asked him what's mean.
Uh, Allah is nothing like him. Like, oh, so what does this have to do with my Allah is nothing like him? And then he said to me in Arabic that the mean he said that Allah is on the throne and his feet on the chair. What the heck is that? A beach.
Allah is on the throne and his feet is on the chair.
So now we have a throne and we have a chair. Are they two?
And this guy, he converted 42 people to Islam, brother.
If you are a person who converted 42, I don't know what 42 I don't I'm not sure.
Maybe 42 cats. Meow. How I did not say anything. He is he is the one who mentioned this. I said to him, why is what Islam? He said Allah. Who is Allah? Allah is the one who is on the throne. He did. Okay. Okay.
What's mean? There is not even a single Muslim between all those Abdul in the world. He can answer this question. You believe it? They cannot.
I did not even start the debate yet. I did not ask a question. I just asked him. He just said something. I said to him, "What you said?" My friend, listen carefully. When you speak to Christian prince, you better be careful.
You better not even to use the alphabet because even if you say a, I will get you a question about it.
A question will make you sorry.
>> Hello.
>> Hello.
>> Yeah. Do you hear me?
>> Yes, I can hear you. But the volume is a little bit low.
>> Oh, okay. Let me get closer to the mic.
I'm very short by the way. So this is why >> because I'm hear you hear me better now because I'm very short sometime I don't reach the mic. All right. So okay. What do you want to tell us Mr. Man? You said you you want to call me and talk to me about >> Yes. I was following your conversation with the sheh.
>> All right.
>> In the first place um the sheh claimed that somebody told him >> that you guys were going to speak in Arabic. But it seems that he's unable to articulate his points.
>> Okay.
>> In English.
>> I don't think so. Because if you watch from the beginning, you will find that he is speaking fluently in English.
>> No, no, no, no. I watched he wasn't fluent. You can't call that fluent. Even I'm not a native speaker.
>> My friend, my friend, are you a Muslim?
First of all, first of all, the person who invited him, the person who invited him, she is a person who speak English only and she don't speak Arabic and he knew that very well and she told him, we are inviting you to debate a Christian prince who have an English channel and she mentioned that to him and he agreed.
So the story of English, it is not true.
This is why in the first uh 15 minutes he did not mention he don't like it to be in English, you know.
>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Please, I followed it. He initially you know he wanted to start speaking Arabic to you but you told him that he should speak in English. No, no, but he but he did agree and he continue, right? So he is capable and we told him and we told him we told him we understand you very well and then he uh he asked me to say the question in Arabic, right? And he still he don't want answer. He did not say I don't understand the question my friend. He said give me two days. So what are you talking about?
>> Okay. Um you asked him a question.
>> Do you have an answer for it yourself?
>> Yes, I have an answer. Go ahead. Which which verse of the Quran you cited? Give it to me.
>> So how you have a question? You have an answer for it but you do not remember what we're talking about.
>> You said I know it from head but I don't I don't remember the uh >> chapter 87 verse number I think six or seven something like this.
>> Okay. So in your in your question >> chapter 87 number what?
>> Uh chapter 87 verse number six.
>> Number six. Thank you very much. So your question was that if the Quran >> says that >> we shall recite unto you and you shall not forget.
>> Mhm.
>> Now you now went into anith bkari.
>> Mhm.
>> Where you cited that um the prophet somebody recited the Quran and the prophet remembered. Um under the same hadith there are other different hadith >> and the same >> that speaks against forgetting the Quran.
>> So the fact that an hadith is >> even if it is coming from >> Bkari >> or Muslim or Abu Dh >> the position of Islam is that an hadith cannot contradict the Quran. Why? Because the hadith were collected several years between 200 250 two 250 to 300 years after the death of the holy prophet.
>> So you are saying anything is collected 200 years after the death of prophet is rejected. Is that correct?
>> What what I'm telling you don't put words into my mouth. Okay. What I'm saying is that it is so if an hadith contradicts the Quran >> the hadith will be rejected. The Quran says in >> so even the Quran itself is an absolute hadith. Analyze it.
>> But he was not talking about the hadith of the prophet. He was talking about the hadith of other religions. So don't fool us with with this.
>> No no no no Mr. Man.
>> Yeah. Okay. Listen.
>> I am on I am on track. Okay. Don't harass me.
>> The word the word hadith here, the verse you quote from me, is it about Muhammad hadith or it's about the what do you understand from the Arabic?
>> You tell me. You tell me. You speak Arabic. You speak Arabic to >> you. You speak Arabic.
Which other hadith?
>> Okay. If I go with you, this is mean.
Why you believe in the hadith? Then >> listen, I see this is where I told you.
I told you that it's not as if we don't believe in hadith.
>> But believing hadith is secondary to the Quran.
>> Yeah, but you just told me you just told me that we should not believe in the hadith because the Quran says >> I did not say that.
>> So what what what do you mean by saying that? I did not tell you the verse you quote for me. The verse you quote for me, my friend.
>> Yeah, make it clear. Make it clear for me. I'm just asking for you. What that what that verse mean exactly?
>> English is not my first language.
Somebody even told you same my English too. What that verse? What that verse?
What I'm saying?
>> No, no, no. Don't go. Don't go. Don't go. Hold on. Hold on. What that verse, my friend? Just focus for me. The verse you just quote for me, I want you to explain it to me and make it clear. When it sayith Allah is saying to you, Allah is saying to you, >> what does that mean?
>> It said in what hadith?
>> What does that mean?
>> What is that mean?
>> Yeah, that's what I'm explaining to.
>> You are just reading for me. You are not telling me in what discourse other than the discourse of Allah. Let me just paraphrase it to you. It means that in what discourse will they believe?
>> Other than the discourse of Allah which is the Quran.
>> So you Muslims should not believe in the hadith. Yes or no?
>> No. This not what I said.
>> So still the hadith is valid. So the hadith is valid. Excuse me. Hold on.
Hold on. Hold on. Okay.
>> No, no, no. Excuse me. Excuse me. Mr. CP you are asking me a monoselabic question. A monoselabic question requires what? A monoselabic answer >> and I did not give you a monosabic question. So you cannot run a monologue of of me. If you are interested in discussing I have given you if you you're an Arabic speaker tell me what it means or maybe you show me.
>> I just told you we can go we can go right now and we see what the interpretation is saying. The interpretation does not say that you don't follow the hat of the prophet.
Which which interpretation are you talking >> of the verse of the verse you quote for me?
>> Which show me which interpretation are you using?
>> Any any one you want. Which one you want?
>> Any one you want to choose.
>> No no no. You you tell me what hadith you want. What what interpretation you want? Because if I give you something you might say I don't agree with it.
What is the one?
>> Are you giving me an or you are giving me a tap?
>> My friend I I just told you interpretation and I think you you speak.
>> Okay. The interpretation that you want to give to me, are you bringing it from the hadith? Are you bringing it from >> my friend? My friend, interpretation.
Interpretation. Interpretation of scholars for the Quran. Interpretation for the Who is the one give interpretation to you. Who is the one?
You see, you are running away now. Now you are trying to run away. You mentioned to me a verse.
>> Running away for what? Running away for from you.
>> Yeah, you are running away. Which which is interpretation you want me to read for you?
>> I have g give me the let me show me the interpretation you want to read.
>> What do you mean show me? Well, you are scared to tell me. I want you to read interpretation of etc. Then give me the >> and then and then and then >> and I gave you if you if whichever translation you want to choose my friend >> read it if it's accessible.
>> No, don't tell me read it because if I read it, you will say to me, "Oh, I don't like this one." So give me an interpretation you trust. Which one?
Which scholar you agree with?
>> Arabic to you.
>> Which is why you all are running away from telling me a scholar you agree with?
>> No, no, no, no. Excuse me. You see, let me tell you, Mr. Cip, I you said you you you said you studied the Sharia. Is that correct, >> my friend? Don't waste my time. Who is the scholar agree with you? Who is the scholar agree with you? Are you telling me all the scholars agree with me? Are you saying Are you saying Why you are afraid? Why you are afraid to give me a name of a scholar? Why you don't want to? Why? Listen, listen. You see, you are not polite.
I'm asking you friendly to give me a name of a scholar you trust. That's all guys. Is that fair? This guy, he don't wanted to give me one because he knew he will get busted. So, give me a scholar.
He agree with you. Just one. Give me a scholar. Agree. He agree with you. When the IM when the IM went silent, you said so many nonsense about >> my friend. I got you busted already. I get you busted because all the scholars don't say that this is about the hadith of the prophet. Now you don't want to give me You don't want to give me. Shut up.
How come? Not even I muted you. I will not let you continue unless you give me a name of a scholar you choose. Do you know why you don't want to give me a name of a scholar you choose? Because do you know that all of them agree with me and you are a potato. So here the challenge between me and you. Can you give me a name of a scholar of your choice? You see not my choice, your choice.
Do you have the courage to do that? The mic is yours.
>> Debate about the topic.
>> Do you have the do you have the courage?
Do you have the courage to do so? You get you got busted. You got busted. You get busted. And secondly, >> the Quran Abdul Abdul >> in your own book.
>> See, see guys, see the example of the Abdul. He don't want me to go if we give interpretation for the Quran from our own. He will say you cannot give interpretation of your own. So I'm asking him which scholar you you like?
You don't want to give me one. Do you know why? Because he knew he's a liar.
That is the whole story.
Let me let me call him back.
What a scholar you like. You give me a verse. Let us read what it says.
Answer. Answer.
Yeah. So did you did you decide which color scholar with you?
>> Did you decide which is color scholar?
Did you decide which is color scholar?
Did you decide which is scholar?
>> See I swear by Allah I didn't hang up on you.
>> No problem.
Maybe for I'm asking you I'm asking you Abdul. Did you decide what the scholar agree with you? Can you find me one? Yes or no?
>> What what what do you want me to find?
>> A scholar he agree with you about this verse is about not to listen to the prophet hadith.
I reframe your question. I didn't understand what you >> my friend. You gave me a verse in the Quran saying that what hadith you are going to believe after the book of Allah.
>> Yes.
>> No problem. Which other >> in which other discourse other than that of Allah will they believe sign? Okay.
I'm using this verse.
>> Okay. Listen listen listen my friend.
Just listen for a second. Can you give me a scholar to explain to us this verse? Can you give me Can you give me a scholar?
>> Yeah, he can.
>> Why you don't want to give me a scholar you agree with and you he agree with you so we can read together what's wrong with you? I am not giving you interpretation for the verse from my own. Can you please nicely and friendly tell me I want I want to be I want anyone you want. Which one you want?
Just name it and I will show it to you.
Go ahead.
when you mention this.
>> Yeah. So what's wrong with them? What's wrong with them? What's wrong with them?
>> They are tough seals.
>> So what's wrong with that?
>> Okay. So when when you talk about tough seals, there are tough seals and they are tough seals.
>> Ah yes. So so what we will do now? How we how you as a Muslim you understand the Quran? Do you go to your scholar read the taps or you you start guessing as you wish?
>> Well, what are you doing? Were you not guessing the ayah when you translated I did not guess. I did not guess. I did not guess. I did not guess. Abdul, I did not guess. I did not guess. I am asking you. I'm asking you. I did not give.
>> Shut up.
This is why I'm asking you to name for me an interpretation you like. Still you don't want to give me one. So don't don't tell me I'm guessing. I did not give you even the meaning. I just said, are you saying that this is about not to believe in the hate of the prophet? You refuse to answer.
>> I am ready. Okay, hold on. I'm ready. If you are, if you're really interested in what interpretation, what interpretation you want me to read?
>> Excuse me. If you really want to debate, >> what interpretation?
>> I challenge you, Mr. CP, to come out of your hell hole.
>> Choose a topic.
>> We don't have a We have a topic already >> because you don't want you you're drifting. What do you mean drifting like this?
>> You are the one who mentioned to me this verse and you don't want to accept you don't want to accept your scholars.
Can't you name for me one scholar agree with you? What's wrong with you? Why?
Why it's impossible to find one scholar agree with you?
>> Mr. Mr. CP >> are you going to give me a scholar or not?
>> Let me ask you a question.
>> Don't ask me a question. Don't change Don't change Don't change. Don't change the topic. Don't change the topic. You are running away. Run run run run. You are a potato. You are a potato. What is get lost to you? Get lost, kid. I have no time for kids.
When a Muslim refused to give us any interpretation, that is a clear sign that he is a big fat liar. And he said this to potato. If a hadith contradict the Quran, he will not let me talk. By the way, he will just talk over me. Yes, David.
>> Oh, nice one, CP.
>> You see guys, what Jehovah witnesses have to do with this? Well, I'm asking him I'm asking him.
This is scholars of Islam. He mentioned Jehovah's Witnesses. Is is is Jehovah's Witnesses?
>> Do you see how stupid? Do you see how run away?
>> If you follow if you follow my uh my comment on the on the chat. I said if the guy is confused, he will run away.
He's just an idiot. He doesn't even know what he's talking about. He said when um a date contradict Quran they pick Quran.
But what about him praying five times in a day in which Quran said three times >> they can quote for him 100 things like what about what about the mut the Quran says mut the Muslim today they don't do mutah you know most both most both most of them. So if we go the Quran says many there's many many Quran many Quran abrogated by the hadith and this is very well known. So when the Quran contradict the hadith, we take the Quran. This is a big fat lie.
>> This is a big fat lie because there's many many hadith. Cancel the Quran.
Delete the Quran.
>> So what this guy is talking about >> the Quran hadith the hadith says that there's a stoning to death.
>> What is the Quran for stoning to death?
It's gone.
>> Yeah.
>> You know >> he does he doesn't know what he's talking about. He's a Nigerian guy. He doesn't know what he's talking about.
>> But you see the question is the right away you will know that they are right away. He changed the topic to talk about Jehovah's Witnesses. What Jehovah's Witnesses had to do even with me? He couldn't he couldn't deal with it >> and I'm asking him can't you name for me one scholar agree with you just one so and he said this is so what's wrong with taps is aren't they Muslims and they are your scholars who yourself how you learned that this this verse mean what it's mean I am not giving you my own meaning and I asked him is that is that verse you gave me saying clearly that don't follow the of the prophet he just said that if a hadith contradict the Quran we don't take it so why you are quoting for me that hadith that that verse If you just admitted that the hadith of the prophet is accepted >> something contra if anything >> hold on hold on let me let me let me take him hold on >> yes Abdul how was Jehovah's Witnesses doing with you >> yes you even your Bible talks about Abdul as well even your Bible talks about you are very arrogant you are a potato you are a potato listen you're a potato ch otherwise otherwise okay let us make a challenge Let us make a challenge. Shut up. Shut up. I muted you. You are talking to yourself. Nobody hear you.
Let us make a challenge.
You as a Muslim to understand this verse. You see, I am a Christian. I have no right to explain the verse up to my, you know, my understanding. Me as a Christian, if I want to understand this verse, you as a Muslim, you will refer me to go to who? As a scholar to read it as interpretation. Guys, is that fair?
You as a Muslim let us say I'm a person who want to convert to Islam to get the 72 vagina and you want to help me to get those vagina. All right. So now I'm asking you the verse you gave me I want to understand that chapter 45 verse number six. All right. Who is the scholar you refer to me to go and listen to him so I can get the meaning? Are you telling me not even one scholar in Islam you advise me to listen to because all of them they are a bunch of liars? Is that what you are saying? The mic is yours >> diarrhea. That's the problem with you because you throw insults. You just throw insult and you think that >> you insult yourself. Give me give me a scholar. What's wrong with you? Which scholar?
>> Let me tell you if you are interested in a >> get get lost insult. I'm asking him nicely friendly.
Okay. Who is the one will explain this verse to me?
This guy, he cannot even read the proper Arabic.
Somalian boy.
If I want to read this verse, I will go to who?
Look, look at the name he have. XXX.
How are How are you, Mr. XX?
>> I'm good, CP. How about you?
>> All right. I'm fine.
>> Right. I was listening to your debate with that African guy.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh he actually ended up trapping himself. First of all, he said that u if any hadith contradicts with the Quran, we have to go with the Quran. Then he brings up this verse in the verse totally cancels all the hadith other than Quran. The verse is quite clear what had you believe in after Allah and his verses afterwards.
Yeah. So they don't have to take the hadith.
>> Yeah. But but he just said that if the hadith contradict the Quran, we don't take it. So he take hadith. Correct.
>> No, but the verse he recited.
>> I know. I know. No. No. No. I asked him is that is that verse is speaking about if a hadith the hadith here they are talking about is the hat of the prophet or the of the fact this is about the hadith of the kufur not the hadith of the prophet because the Muslims they've been ordered to obey Allah and the messenger.
Yeah.
>> Allah how to obey Allah is by obeying Allah words. Correct?
>> That's the understanding of the people.
But the Quran also says that Quran is the word of messenger as well.
>> No, no problem. No problem. But here if when I obey >> obey to obey you know obey when I obey somebody uh he had to give me an order of his own. If I obey Allah that's the order of Allah. So Allah says don't do that. I don't do that. But to obey the prophet is to obey his order. So we have we have an orders coming from Allah and we have orders coming from Muhammad. And as you know as you know Muslim they say that Muhammad he said hadith which cancel the Quran. Is that correct?
>> Yeah I do believe that nonsense theory that the Quran is being cancelled. All of the Quran is nonman and you have the hadiths now to you know highlight the Islam or promote Islam whatever the Islam is today. It's just nonsense And you have seen these these people are brain dead. You can't really expect an answer like that shake from Alaz or whatever he was. He just ran off like a little girl. His PC wasn't working.
>> Yeah. But what the problem with this guy? What is the answer for? He called me supposedly to answer me about that.
And now he's saying to me the hadith you mentioned is not accepted. Why it's not accepted? same time I showed two verses from the Quran not only a hadith because there's a verse in the Quran says that any verses we cause to be forgotten right this is the chapter of Bakar >> so any any verses we cause to be forgotten and the other one says I will give you Quran and you will not forget so how we will cause to be forgotten and I asked the shake I think you were listening right I asked the shake yeah who is the one who who hear the verses speaking about Muhammad I gave him three options This verse is speaking to Muhammad or speaking to Muslims or speaking to Muhammad and the Muslims. He said to Muhammad, correct?
>> Well, I wasn't really paying attention.
Yeah, maybe.
>> Yeah, you can you can go and play it again. So, he said it clearly. That's fine. I don't >> And he repeat that twice because I gave him the question more than one time. So, >> yeah, that's fine. So, Muhammad is is is a promise not to forget the Quran. All right. But Muhammad is forgetting the Quran in the hadith and that is not contradicting the Quran because the Quran in different verse in chapter of Albakar is saying that Allah will cause the Quran to be forgotten and it doesn't make sense that all the Muslim will forget the Quran except Muhammad. Why?
And >> well yeah that that's their understanding. They get trapped in their own understanding just because they want to uh you know just abrogate the Quran.
They're just rushing towards abrogation.
So what do you expect from them?
>> Yeah. But you know and why he don't want to give me a scholar to understand the Quran. You see when I uh when I a Christian a Muslim he asked me ask him a question about the Bible you have to take it as we understand it not as you like. So now I'm not asking him to I will explain to him the Quran. I'm asking him which scholar you like.
>> Do you know why he said to me okay which one you want? He was >> Yeah. He was just going around in circles.
>> Yeah. Because he don't want to give me one because if I give him one and then he will find himself busted. He will say, "Oh, I don't like this guy."
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true.
>> This is why he don't want to give me This is why I insist I want him to name one, but yet he the he will not dare to name one. I mean, is it possible that all the scholars in the world, not even one of them agree with you?
>> Yeah.
>> Which sect is that is the sect you you he is Jehovah's Witnesses, >> right? Yeah. He must be Jehovah's Witnesses. Well, there are few by the way. We're not in numbers or something. It's hard to find one anyway.
>> But but it's very funny. They are saying to you they want to debate and he have an answer. The qu the the the the shake uh he uh obviously don't not uh cannot speak English. But the shake did not say I cannot answer you in English. He said I will come back after two days.
>> Yeah. She could speak English >> and he speak very well. Yeah.
>> Yeah. He was fine with English. And the one who invited him, she speak only English. Like you see if the girl who invited him, she speak Arabic. I will say okay well you know why he spoke to an Arabic person. She told him that this is in YouTube and she told him this guy is Christian Prince. He do English program and she said to me he is a liar.
I told him it's in English you know.
>> Yeah but it's an executor and you will notice the first 28 minutes he don't have a problem with his English. Yeah, still I open I'm aware of that. Even I try to speak with them and demand answers from the Quran and stuff. All they do is accuse, run off, they can't understand, their brain's not working or something, something goes wrong with them.
>> Yeah. Well, anyway, you know, uh we are here to get them busted. And this guy uh who don't want to give us one scholar agree with him, obviously he is a potato.
>> Yeah.
>> Everything contradict the Quran.
Everything in the hadith contradict to the Quran.
>> Yes. Everything does.
>> You see when when when the Quran says Allah he said to Muhammad read as an example from the beginning the beginning of the story >> he said to him read. Okay. If you go and read the story of of the hadith there's a story even says that Muhammad after he saw the angel in the cave he saw the angel again and he was laying down in a bed like what the heck?
>> Yeah there are few versions and those are crazy ones >> you know. Yeah, but I mean the the whole story does not make sense. And then the angel he squeezed him. Okay. Well, why why the why the Quran did not say I mean the angel when he was squeezing did Allah told him that in the Quran to to squeeze like say squeeze squeeze.
>> Yeah, that's a funny story. Even I don't believe that. That is such a nonsense story. He's getting hugged and squeezed by the angel. Read read and then read from what? When you ask these shakes, read from what? He couldn't even read that he had a piece of paper or something and they just go silent.
>> By the way, the the gentleman is calling right now. He is a Muslim. Sure. He's a Muslim but he is a Quran only. You know, he's he don't believe in the hadith.
Correct.
>> Do you believe in?
>> Do you believe in the I don't know you?
You do you believe in the hadith?
>> No, I don't believe in the hadith if you're asking. No, no, no. Not a single you know me for quite some time.
>> Okay. You know what? I I I will ask you a simple question. As long you are a person who don't believe in the in the hadith. If I say to you who is Israel, what you will say to me?
>> Well, for that I'll have to go to previous books.
>> What does that mean?
>> I have to go to previous books because the Quran calls somebody Israel but doesn't tell you who is Israel.
>> Does that mean there's a shortage in the book?
>> No, that's why the Quran says refer to the previous book. Refer to the book of the scripture. Ask them. No, there's there's a guy his name is Israel. Not only speaking about the the children of Israel, there's a guy his name is Israel. So if I say to you now, you are a person >> who don't uh uh believe in the hadith.
>> All right. Right.
>> So how you will find out who is this guy Israel, >> right? Well, you'll have to question him that what does salat means and various stuff? what shahada you believe in and how can you bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah when you're not when you have witnessed nothing >> actually even if I asked you my friend even if I ask you who is Muhammad if there is anything in the Quran telling you who is Muhammad >> well Muhammad is in the Quran all his personality is there that's what I believe in no I ask you if a person came to me and he says to me okay the Quran says Jesus the son of Mary >> and her the father of Mary is Omran Okay. So now we know the son, we know the mother, we know the father, we know that he have no father. Okay. So now we know who is Isa. If I want to know if I want to know from the Quran who is Muhammad. I mean why Allah is telling me that Mary she have a son her name is his name is Isa and she have a father his name is Omran and telling me even the story about Zachariah you know yet he don't mention anything about Muhammad except that his name mentioned something. That's a good question uh CP because Quran is not totally Muhammad's biography. Muhammad was just a messenger.
>> So why we need a biography? Why would I why we need the biography about others?
I mean why the biography appear for others and suddenly the most important person in this book? There's no biography about him.
>> That's a good question. That that is something Allah has done deliberately to confuse people who have disease in their hearts.
>> Okay.
So Allah he make in order he make he make or something deceiving in purpose just to deceive people you are saying >> yes that's all in the Quran that Allah will mislead from the Quran as well.
>> All right but what the purpose of this mislead because this is supposedly the one who believe in this book is the Muslims. So what the point of misleading the Muslims?
uh I don't think Allah sees someone as if someone says he's a Muslim or not because there's a verse in the Quran which says that Arabs say that we have uh believed Allah says you have not believed submit so when the faith enters you you will know so Allah deals with a person individually rather than what he calls himself >> but you just said what you just said that Allah he deceive those who have disease increase disease the one who have disease in their heart is that correct >> yeah that's true >> okay well if I am a And what is a doctor do? The doctor he go after the one who have a disease in his heart to help him. If you are healthy, you do not need a doctor. So Allah why he is instead of sending a doctor for those who have a disease in their heart, instead he is putting more more diseases in their heart. I mean it doesn't make sense.
>> That's why in the Quran that Allah will not change what's within you. You will have to change what's within you. You have >> no no my friend. No my friend. The Quran confirmed that Allah he deceive as he wish and he guide as he wish. So what?
>> Yeah that's true that these are the last verses of surahan. I'm aware of that.
>> Yeah.
>> Even if someone wishes to take away with Allah one cannot unless Allah wills.
>> See anything happened like even the Quran says that uh if Allah he wish to believe they will believe but he don't wish you know. So >> that's true.
>> Yeah. So uh uh uh uh Allah is the one who misguide. Allah is the one who uh guide. So it is at the end it is his choice not your choice. And this is confirmed. This is confirmed the hadith.
So what the point of this religion if Allah he made a decision that Christian prince you will be deceived. So I like to be guided or not. It doesn't matter.
He made the decision already. You know he made a decision for Adam. He made a decision for before he created him. He made decision for you for me before he created us. So when >> see my answer would be personal and that would be a simple answer because I can't really answer on this. My answer would be that's why we should fear Allah.
That's why my friend you are just telling me that Allah is a scary person.
He is the devil. We cannot trust him. He is deceiver and he play us. That's all what you are saying. So you are just doing with my respect to you the same as the shake. All what I can say to you that we should fear Allah because of that because he play us you know. But you fear him or not that will not change anything. He decided for you already to go to hell. So why you want to follow him? He decided for already. You fear him. You don't fear him. Who care? I mean >> well I don't really have a choice but it's up to Allah now. I I don't have a say in this matter.
>> Well you know you are you don't have a choice. If you are a person who became subdued for the devil the devil he want to deceive you and you are saying well the devil decide to de deceive me and I have no choice. That's not true. You are a human being. You've been given a brain. It doesn't make sense anything of that. You see, heaven and and and judgment day is based on uh reward for something good you did you did or penalty for something bad you did. But Islam does not make sense because it doesn't matter what you do. You do good or bad. It's already decision is made.
So what the point of this religion I convert or not? It doesn't matter because I might convert but still I'm not going to go because Allah he made a decision.
>> Surprising because we'll have to see what Allah will do on that day. Who will go to paradise? Who will burn in hell?
It's all up to Allah.
>> So what the point of this one? If you go to chapter 4 verse number 88 it says uh uh uh you know what does that mean saying right?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. What explain to us? Go ahead. What does that mean?
>> Can you please get the words? Uh >> this is a chapter 4 verse number 88.
>> Let me open it now.
>> But I like that guy who supposedly he called to to to help the shake.
>> Yeah. Well CP this verse is I believe quite easy that repentance is not accepted if someone continues persists in sin.
>> Yeah.
>> And then the it the verse is quite clear that on your deathbed you will not be forgiven for whatever you have done in your life even if you repent.
>> This is what the verse mean.
>> Yeah I think this is what the verse means.
>> Can you read for us please?
>> Yeah. But repentance is not accepted of those who continue to do evil leads up until when death comes to one of them.
He says indeed I have repented. Now >> where is the word?
>> Those who died while they were their disbelievers.
>> Where where is the word repentance there?
>> Repentance.
>> Where where are you reading the same chapter? Chapter 4. Chapter 4 verse number 88. You're reading that.
>> Yeah.
>> Where is the word repentance there? I don't see it. Where?
>> It's not there. It's in the brackets.
Actually, I was reading the translations. It's not in the Arabic.
Yeah, but there's no repentance there. I cannot find the word repentance in Arabic or in English. Where where you get the word for? There's no no repentance. Where?
>> Oh, it was in the English version actually. I was reading. Sorry about what translation you are reading.
>> It's Sah International.
>> Oh, okay. That's weird. You see because uh what the verse >> word I will go I will go with you. Let's go with you. So you just said I will go with you.
>> I will go with translation you said. So Allah saying that they repent or not Allah will not accept for he is the one whom he he he he he he he deceived them correct >> well it doesn't say it's chapter number four verse 18 right >> uh chapter 4 verse number 88 >> 88 >> yeah 88 >> oh sorry I was on 18 I was wondering what are you talking about like repentance you know right Sorry about okay. Uh it says, "What is the matter with you that you are two groups concerning the hypocrites while Allah has made them fall back into error and disbelief for what they earned? Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray and he whom Allah sends astray never will you find for him a way."
Yeah.
>> See, so yeah. So Allah saying that I am the one who deceived them. I am the one. So what the devil do? If Allah saying I am the one who deceived them. So why why they why Allah claim that the devil is the one who deceive you when he is saying I am the one who deceive them.
And don't try to guide them because the one I deceive nobody can guide. I mean he is more evil than the devil himself.
>> Well Allah knows but we don't know.
>> What does that mean have to do with this? You see Allah knows or he don't know. doesn't doesn't matter. It doesn't make any difference.
>> The purpose of the verse I believe is simple to strike fear of Allah among the believer.
>> My friend, what fear? What fear? You know, is Islam came for guidance or Islam useless? Because based on this, Islam is useless. You guide him, you don't guide him. It doesn't matter. The one who misguided by Allah, you cannot you cannot guide him. So Islam is a joke because Allah already decides.
>> You have to submit, >> my friend. My friend, >> you don't have your will anymore. If you submit to Allah, you should do what the Quran says. against your nose.
>> Listen carefully. You see Allah is saying that the one who he misguide nobody can guide. The one actually he says in Arabic not misguide the one who he deceived.
So if I am the one who scoring the causing the law causing de deception and I am the one who made you being deceived and I am saying to the prophet will you guide them or you don't don't waste your time because I am the one who made them misguided and the one who I mis misguide nobody can guide. So what the point of Muhammad then because already the decision made. So Muhammad >> Muhammad is just a delivery guy. He's just delivering the message.
>> What the point of the delivery if if if he he made a decision because the the message already already this message is useless because if you are saying I deceived him and nobody can guide the one I deceived. So why he sending the message for who they are?
>> That's why Allah repeatedly says in the Quran I do what I will. Allah does what he wills.
>> My friend this is not a problem for me.
I uh uh I I believe that God he do what he will. What's wrong with that? But this this not the question. The question is if I want to send a message with a messenger and at the end of the day the message he give a message or not. I made a decision who is going to accept it and who is going to reject it. So what the point of this message?
>> There's no point. It's a joke. I send a letter for you. I am sending a letter.
But I made you program you to take the letter and rip it off and I made other guy to take the letter and kiss it. I made him do that. So what the point? He did not give them free will to choose to accept the message or not to accept. He is he said the one I misguide nobody can guide. That's it. That's don't waste your time. So the message is useless. So Islam as a religion is a stupid idea based on this because you see if I want to say to a person repent to God and then you will be forgiven. That's mean God he said repent then you are forgiven. But repent you don't repent it doesn't matter God will not forgive you.
He decide to deceive you and he will send you to hell. So this is a crazy religion. It's a hashish religion.
You see all the ritual Muhammad he mentioned in the Quran doing Haj uh uh paying zakat etc paying the prophet all those things turn to be useless because if he made decision already I make donation or not doesn't make any different if I go to Hajj or not if I pray the night of which is equal to 83 years which is funny it doesn't make any different because he made a decision who is going to go to heaven who was going to make go to hell before he created us so What the point of this religion? It's just a waste of time. Is God is you see >> CP we will see on the day of judgment.
>> No my friend my friend we are not talking about the day of judgment. Now you know you you are doing the same as the shake. Now let two days from now we will see. So the day of judgment if if Islam is a true religion. We know already what the day of judgment will be. He made decision who is going to be deceived who is not. And you yourself you obvious you you are not a believer.
You are a person who fear Allah only.
You just say this is why we have to fear Allah. So you are just a scared person of Allah, not a believer.
>> Well, I was given some signs personally.
So I fear Allah. I have submitted to the Quran. That's my personal affair with God.
>> No problem. But but you are not a believer. You are a person who live in fear. So you submit to Allah because you're afraid of him. Not because you believe in him. You tell >> no why not say I am afraid of God.
That's that's the truth.
>> No, no, no. This is not the point. The point is you are not a believer. You are just an afraid person. And there's a huge difference. There's a person who's afraid and he do things because he's afraid because of terror. And there's a person who's a believer. So if you think if you are you are just afraid from Allah as you say, but you don't believe in Allah. So why you will go to heaven?
I mean is Allah is a fool?
>> Well, I don't know where I where I will end up. I have absolutely no idea.
>> Okay, no problem. No problem. But I mean so what the point of fearing Allah just because you fear because if you will go to hell anyway, why you want to fear? at least live your life and don't worry about him. So this guy >> because in my everyday life I sense when I sin when I do something wrong I get punished by Allah.
>> What do you mean? How how how you get punished?
>> Well if I do something wrong that I'm not supposed to do.
>> Do you think I mean >> that I get punished I let me let me ask you do you think Christian Prince is doing something wrong to Allah?
>> That's your affair with Allah. Why he don't punish me?
>> Well, Allah says in the Quran, Allah will give them time. Allah gives everybody time.
>> But but you just said that Allah when you do something wrong right away he punish you.
>> Yeah. So Allah does punish me and Allah does not punish few people. So why so why in your case why in your case he don't give you time? I mean you are the one who fear him yet he punish you right away.
>> Well see P that's because Allah has already decided for you. Allah is not unfair to you. He will give you good time. Can you give me an example where Allah you did something wrong and Allah punish you right away? Can you give me an example please?
>> Yeah there's a verse of the Quran that says if one kills a life without right or commit fornication he should get ready for the punishment.
>> Okay. And what happened to you? You you killed somebody or you commit fornication and Allah punish you. What happened?
>> No that that's actually my personal affair. If I've done something, if I have been this on >> I'm just trying I'm just trying to understand how Allah he punished you because you are saying I'm not I'm not trying to to to get into your into your private life. I'm just trying to understand how this happened to you. How he punished you. What happened?
>> Well that then it'll be personal. So I'll have to tell you.
>> No, no, no. I'm not telling you to tell me the story what you did. I'm telling you what he did, what Allah he did to you.
Well, then I'll have to go into the full story otherwise it won't make any sense.
>> My friend, you know there's go in the Middle East, you will see that the people they say the effort to Allah, they say the effort to Muhammad uh uh uh the guy who destroyed the black destroyed thea he was victorious until the last day of his life.
The one who who who made the Ka made the Kaba and Mecca dust the whole city destroyed totally. He was victorious and he was a person who nobody can stop and nothing happened to him. What is the point? Like as an example you you remember the story my friend the believers >> you remember the story >> said when that when is the help of Allah? Allah says achieving paradise is not easy. Being a believer is not easy.
>> H come on what easy? If Allah he just you just we just agreed me and you and you know I I guess you are smarter than saying that we agree that Allah the one he guide he guide and the one he misguide he misguide. So, so what easy?
What hard? It's already he make a decision you and you agreed with that.
So there's nothing is called easy and hard because it doesn't matter what you do.
>> If it if he made a decision for you already to go to heaven, it's so easy.
You do not need to do anything for Allah. He guided you, that's it. If if you if you are a person from the unlucky one, he decide to de deceive you. That's it. It doesn't matter how hard how hard you work, there's no guidance for you.
So this is what you said is very stupid.
With my respect to you, listen, I want to ask you a simple question. I don't want to keep you for long.
Do you remember the story in the chapter of the elephant?
>> Yeah, I do. Asabul, I believe.
>> Okay. What the story is saying? Do you know?
>> Well, uh I'll let you have your say because that is a bit difficult to explain. Give me give me your summary of the story like in in in two minutes what what this story is about.
>> Well, Muhammad was facing some enemy and Allah sent birds with stones to attack.
>> Muhammad was facing enemy. Muhammad.
>> Yeah.
>> But this is before Islam.
>> No, I don't think that was before Islam.
That was um I believe during or after the Islam in Muhammad's lifetime.
>> No, my friend. During during Muhammad, the Arab was controlling the Yemen, not the Ethiopian. That's false.
>> But CP, just one question here.
>> Um, you know, uh, if I tell you I went all the way from Yemen or India >> to Mecca with my father on an elephant, will you believe me?
>> Well, for sure. This is absolutely a lie >> because elephants can go through the desert, >> right? So how this happened?
>> This never happened in Makkah. That is the silly interpretation of the writers that you know elephants attack Makkah. I mean what the heck is that? If I tell someone I went from India >> my friend my friend listen let us use our intelligence and I'm sure you are a smart person.
>> If those elephants will not make it to Mecca anyway so why Allah need to defend Makkah?
>> There's no mention of Makkah in that verse. He I believe Prophet Muhammad went somewhere.
>> No problem. No problem. What do you mean? They know this is uh the >> could be India.
>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You see those are in India. They want to come where? Why? Why Allah he punished them?
>> Because they were waging war against the messenger of Allah.
>> And the prophet at that time he was in India.
>> Pardon?
>> And and your prophet at that time he was in India.
>> Could be India, could be Yemen. I'm not sure wherever the elephants are. Could be Africa.
>> Well, there's no reference anywhere in any Islamic book. It says that Muhammad ever been out of like maximum he went to Syria to Yemen and Arabian Peninsula and that's it.
>> Yeah. According to the history by the way since he became prophet he never came out of Makkah or Medadina. He never even went to Syria. He went to Syria before Islam.
>> So you're talking about before. So now here >> no I don't believe in those stories. I believe he was traveling through the continent and spreading Islam. So you know you agreeing that this is story does not make any sense especially that is speaking that Allah he sent birds carrying stones is that correct? No, I believe the Quranic story uh makes sense but the tap does not. Tap is total problem. But but do you believe that the birds are carrying stones and striking at?
>> Yes, I do believe.
>> Okay. Yeah. Where are they? Where are the those uh uh uh you know those stones uh I mean uh when when the Cabba was destroyed when Muhammad was humiliated when >> well first of all that's what my point was it never happened in Cababa and what happened where it happened I don't know >> my friend I'm saying when Muhammad he have many war and he lost many he did not win everything why those birds did not join in any fight.
>> I don't know that um okay question but I don't know.
>> All right. So those birds they appear to fight with the prophet but they are not fighting with him in Arabia but they fight with him only in India.
>> Well could be anywhere. I don't know.
Yeah I don't know. I don't have the understanding. I >> he sent the birds all the way to India which is far away will take them forever to arrive anyway and they will never make it. But Allah will not send his F-16 birds in Arabia.
And that makes sense to you.
>> Well, Allah sent angels instead of birds.
>> And how how big that bird is going to how big the rock is going to be? I mean to kill an elephant by a by a rock is carried by a bird. I mean how big this rock will be?
It look like you're the bird of Allah.
They were a sniper and they have a crews. Even crews have a 7% mistaken like percent to mistake the target. So those are birds and they are just you see when you throw a rock from high simply you are just leaving the rock right and the rock will fell down.
So how many birds will be in the sky and how many rock they need to to throw in order to kill one elephant?
>> Well ZB I don't know. I wasn't there with them at that time.
>> You see, you are an intelligent man. You are just trying to escape saying I do not know maybe it was in India. This is what happened to a person who struggle with his intelligent that he don't want to believe that he is believing in something foolish like this. So he say I don't know. Each time things getting complicated I say well I don't know. I have I don't believe with them that they are saying elephant coming to Mecca. An elephant he need about between 500 to 600 liter of water a day.
>> Yeah that's true. So how the elephant even will go to the in the desert for one day not one one one week and elephant they are not really fast and they have and not only that the elephant not only they need to drink water they need during daytime they need to stay inside the water because they don't sweat correct >> yeah true >> they need to wash themselves always by water not because they are liking to get clean like shampoo but because their skin will go dry and they will die so they have to have water always not necessar necessarily only to drink but to wet their skin and their body. And the whole story it does not make sense.
You know when uh when almati he came to the cabba he stood in the middle of the cabba and he said where is he said Allah hey Allah where is the birds where is your flying birds the guy he destroyed the cabba he took the black stone he made it a pop stone for more than 20 years and the Muslims and by the way nobody during that time do Hajj that's it nobody go to Caba because those people they are following stones the stone is taken the cabba is destroyed people even lost their faith because they said you know what the heck where is Allah this guy he made them lose their faith so he destroyed the Kaa he took the black stone and then the Muslim they send him a letter asking him they send a letter to saying to him please can you like intercede between us and we will pay him money and he give her give us a stone and then the books of the s says that when the Muslim received the stone back.
It was pieces and it was a lot light than the way he took it. And look how the Muslim explained that guys. They say the reason the stone was light when they bring it back, not because he changed it with fake stone, but because the stone was happy to get back to Mecca.
>> Stone was happy.
>> Yeah, the stone is happy to get back to Mecca. This is why the stone is not heavy. So uh this is why you know always Muslims when you when you show them the the madness of the Quran like you you start trying to find a solution. So what you did yourself you fly with the birds all the way to India and you said there's no way the the elephant will will come to Mecca. You don't want to believe in the stories which mentioned all over by Muslims and by Muhammad himself. So you decide to fly yourself to India all the way and then you find yourself looking for birds there killing the elephant.
But what the elephant have to do with Muhammad there anyway? Let us say an army is coming to fight Muhammad and Allah is a smart god. He knew supposedly that those elephant anyway they cannot make it to go in the desert. What is the point of this birds? Nothing. How the elephant let us say the Indian they want to cross the ocean.
They cannot do that.
you know an army of elephants coming with in the ocean and how they can carry water with them they cannot do that so everything in the story is a joke but for you as a smart person in order to escape questioning the value of your book you decide to say well I don't know >> well see miracles happen we have to believe in the miracles just like Christ giving life to the dead >> this is not a miracle this is not a miracle this has nothing to do with miracle you see this is not you Do Allah need the birds to you know he can say one word he say be is going to be right what birds what is that for where is the birds right now the wax is flying in the top of the cabba and according to the Muslims that this story happened when the when the cabba used to have 360 idol. So Allah, he sent birds to save the Cabba when it was under the pagans and Allah did not send his birds to save the Cabba when it was full of Muslims.
Almuti he killed more than and he's a Muslim himself by the way, but you know his story. I don't know if you if you know he he killed more than 10,000 Muslims around the Cabba. He slaughtered them all.
>> So he killed the Muslims. He destroyed the Cabba. He took the black stone. He was pissing in it for more than 20 years. And I believe now the stones they have it now it is not the stone he took it. If you go right now and you look at the stone the Muslims they have in the caba now it is pieces and it's glued together. It's >> yeah those are pieces glued together but that rock has nothing to do with Islam.
They it's just from you know maybe some symbol of goddess of fertility from pre-Islamic time. It's not even mentioned in the Quran. That rock should be you know thrown out of Cabba. my friend the Cabba all of it is is a is a piece of rocks. So what the kaba is about >> but that specific rock which they're worshiping >> and but no there is many proofs of those of you know even before Islam the Arab they used to worship rocks so it's nothing new this is a pagan cult uh uh you know uh uh tradition and Muhammad himself you know you are a person who believe in the Quran only let me show you something uh just to show you that Muhammad he was a pagan Oh, let us see in chapter 74 verse number uh four and five. What this chapter saying?
>> Uh let me check if you have it on the screen. Let's see.
>> Chapter 74 verse number four and five.
>> Let me open it up.
>> Okay. And your clothing purify.
>> What? What are what is a resour?
What is that?
Well, it means keep your clothes clean and avoid uncleanliness.
>> Who said that?
>> Who said that? Who is where is the where this mean is coming from?
>> Right.
>> Well, it's that is the verse. I believe it's exact one 74 verse number four.
>> Purify himself from what?
>> Purify yourself mean keep your clothes clean. Why? Don't keep Why Muhammad was dirty?
>> That's just an advice from Allah.
>> You're advising him if he is clean already.
>> Because if you go to a woman, I don't think the clothes remain pure anymore.
That you have to purify them again. You have to wash them.
>> You know this doesn't make sense.
Allah saying to Muhammad, you should be clean, you know.
>> Yeah, that's an advice. That's why we clean ourselves before we go to salah.
>> No. A rajas simply is the practice of the pagan worshiping the goddess have nothing to do with the cleaning and crows. You can go open any dictionary.
You can open any interpretation. You can open all the scholars will speak very well Arabic and >> yeah you can say that it's so Muhammad was a pagan person.
Yeah, he might be before Islam. There is a chance he >> No, no, no. This is before this is this is before Islam. After Islam, this is a chapter 74.
>> Well, that's that could not be specifically for Muhammad, but for everybody else, just an advice.
>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is this is this is the Muhammad. You can go and read any interpretation. This is W to Muhammad. Allah is saying to him, stay away.
uh from worshiing the pagans. Why he is saying that to him? He says clean yourself from the pagans from worshiing the pagans and specifically.
So why he is saying that to him if Muhammad was a prophet now?
>> Well just advice from Allah.
>> No well you give me advice.
>> Muhammad just a human being after all >> my friend. My friend, you you you call me right now. Imagine you call me, you says Christian friends don't worship pagans, but I don't worship pagans. This is stupid to say that to me unless I worshiping pagans. So when Allah he says when Allah he says such a thing then we need to ask how Allah he say such a thing to him but yet Muhammad don't believe in this. So what the point?
Unless Muhammad Unless Muhammad at that point he was worshiping idols.
>> Well the verse literally means that he should avoid every kind of filth.
>> No no no no no my friend go right now and check what the word mean. Arab Arabic is my language. This word have nothing to do. You see the translation the Muslim give you translation. If you go all the translation let me show you.
Let us see one by one.
>> It is it is very funny. But here here do you see this is the translation of whom?
He said and keep away from Rajes. Do you see it between two bracket the idols? Do you see it?
>> Well, reges I see the similarity.
>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is not this is not what that one this is different word. This is it is specifically the idols. And even the translation in front of us, this guy, he got it right. Do you see? Yeah. Okay.
Why I want to say to you, >> don't do that no more. purify your garment because you are dirty for doing that.
>> Yeah, it could mean avoid.
>> No, no, no.
>> Every kind of shake in your speech.
>> Purify. Purify your garment.
What happened to his garment? It is because he was worshiping going around the idols and worshiping them. He's asking him to abandon them. abandon that mean you are now not abandoning them yet. If Muhammad already is abandoned those idols, there's no need for me to say to you, will abandon them. I did already from a long time. I already >> see if we look at the context. Allah speaking to someone who's sleeping.
>> My friend, this is this is to Muhammad.
Read with me. Go.
>> Yeah. Muhammad is sleeping or something.
>> It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
Sleeping or not? What's sleeping? Uhuh.
He saying uh or let us say Muhammad was asleeping. All right. But that will not change anything.
>> Allah saying to him abandon the idols and is speaking to Muhammad not to the Muslims.
>> How Muhammad was a prophet and Allah saying to him abandon the island. The the the idol. Simply the answer is very simple. Muhammad even when he was claiming to be a prophet of Allah, he was worshiping the idols. But when he found that there is no respond from anyone to accept him as a prophet, he decide to decline those because it's not working anyway. And then he decided to follow the Jews. So he stopped doing Hajj. He stopped kissing the black stone. He start praying in the direction of Jerusalem. Then he noticed that he's wasting his time. The Jews and the Christians are not accepting him anyway.
Muhammad he said in the hadith if 10 Jews only accepted me all the Jews will believe in me. He could not make even 10 Jews believe in him. So when he noticed that it's not working he decided to go back to araj which is the ka and the black stone. For a long time Muhammad he did not do hajj and he did not pray in the direction of the kaba. What happened is the kaba is not important no more.
Why Allah did not say to him pray from the first day in the direction of the cabba.
It doesn't make sense why >> well Allah says it was a big test turning that direction from >> No my friend this is not a test because at the end of the day it was Omar who said to Muhammad when when when Muhammad he he killed he killed everybody he killed the Jews he kicked them out Christians nobody there so business is dying and Makkah is dying and now Muhammad and the Muslims they came and they control Mecca but nobody's coming no more nobody's coming so Muhammad in order to flourish Mecca again he decide to accept the advice of and to make Mecca a place for as it used to be before Islam. So Muhammad abandoning Mecca for a long time don't care actually even even the the the Arab even after the Muslims took over the Caba still they were walking around the Kaa naked and Muhammad he like a woman who was going naked around the Cabba and Muhammad wanted her to be his wife and because of that he was jealous he decided to forbid people from going naked around the cabba just because of a woman >> right CP regarding the history I have a verse I would like to know what your understanding is on that verse.
>> Okay, >> that's 4713.
>> That's chapter number 47. Verse number 13.
>> What about it? What do I know?
>> Like who is God speaking to in this verse? And what God has destroyed?
uh you know if you if you go I mean >> uh yeah when you as a Muslim you try to understand a verse in the Quran you will find that there there is no connection between any verses like what is the verse before it and the verse after it >> have to do with it nothing so if you are trying to understand you have to go there's a book it's called if we go there let me show you >> that's a joke that book is a joke >> well you have to because the Quran is a very confusing book if I start guessing myself >> no no I would rather wait for the understanding and read the Quran again and again rather going to such >> there is no there is no understanding there you cannot you cannot come to understanding because the Quran verses they are not connected it's like somebody he found he went to like a junkyard and he start collecting parts and he put them together so Quran it does not make sense there's no connection between the verse before it and the verse after it So after the interpretation of the verse still you will not understand they are talking about who?
>> Yeah. So CP I would just would like your literal understanding because I'm doing some research on this word. So that's why I'm asking.
Well, what I what I think about this uh this thing here uh it's it's a plain sentence mean nothing and it just says uh those uh you know who did who is guided Allah he will you know increase their guidance >> 4713 I uh right just second which one is it 4713 not 17 >> oh but it's still it's still the same >> no that one's different than this one >> okay no problem It's still the same my friend. Nothing nothing will change. I I understand what you're saying now. But still nothing will change. Let me let me show you it is still it's the same. Uh okay. You know uh you know when when when Muhammad he uh he he left Mecca.
Mecca is a is a village. Right.
>> Right.
>> All right. So he left that village and he is saying to them uh which one is more strong than the village which you are left off we destroy them but Mecca is not destroyed is it?
>> No.
>> Did they did all the people of Mecca get killed? No. It's a the verse is making a mistake here because it says in Arabic >> which mean you see the word >> destroyed >> it mean yeah destroyed and they are like not exist no more >> but as we know when Muhammad he enter Mecca >> there's only few people he said they should be killed and the rest he give them a a burden correct >> so the the verse here is not valid >> well I believe that he went to different towns and started preaching This could not be Mecca.
>> Well, it says the the village you've been you you've been taken out of. So, it should be Mecca.
>> Well, Makkah is the interpretation.
Makkah is not destroyed. Makkah is still there and never in the history. You are saying that no, Makkah is destroyed after Muhammad. Yes. But here the verse does not make sense. This why I'm saying like you you asked me about what the verse says. I said nothing makes sense.
the verse.
>> Well, my understanding is Muhammad went preaching into different cities other than Makkah and Medadina and those who rejected them were destroyed completely.
That's how Islam spread in the Middle East.
>> But my friend, Mecca is not destroyed.
People of Mecca are not destroyed. And >> yeah, but it doesn't speak of Makkah. It doesn't give city other cities, other strong cities.
>> Well, you have to give me which city then. I mean, this why I'm saying the Quran is is I don't want to be insulting, but this is stupid. I mean, shouldn't you tell me what you are talking about?
Is it is this book is made for somebody live at that time so he can understand or this is a book is given to everybody how someone he live today now he was not there he will understand what's happening the one who is in at that time exist exist he knew for sure he he can confirm if this is Mecca or something else but how somebody live today in this time he can understand what this is mean so what the point of this Quran Well, I believe this verse goes against the history that's in the hadith that Muhammad was limited to Makkah and Medina and that's it. He died, you know, striving to get inside Makkah. By chapter nine, Muhammad was in Makkah, by the way. But they believe that he just never made it to Makkah till he was about to die in his last two years or something. They just mock Muhammad in the hadith.
>> My friend, the point is this Quran is stupid. You are the one who quote for me the verse, right? Okay. If you go the verse before it, what the verse before it have to do with the verse after it?
Nothing. Nothing. What? What? What does what is the connection?
>> Yeah. There is no connection with the >> So, how this book is made?
>> Well, that's how Allah speaks. It's the word of God.
>> Allah speak, you know, if you read all the verses before it, it doesn't make any sense. There there's no connection.
Every verse, every verse coming from the middle of nowhere, you know, you know, uh uh uh uh if if you uh if you read as example verse number five, it says, "So Allah will guide them." How you are the one who said that already you guided the one he want and you decide the one you want and now you are saying in the future he will guide him.
is he will in the future. It's a contradiction. And then you read the verse after it have nothing to do with the one before it and the one before it and the one before it. You know, it's it's just a a guy trying uh to collect junk, trying to make a book and nothing more.
And look here in verse number two as an example the same chapter Allah making condition that whoever believe in what is sent to Muhammad right Allah will let their sin go correct >> right >> okay but this is mean here you have a free will because he's saying whoever believe in Muhammad those who believe in Muhammad and what on Muhammad which is the truth from their God which is Quran.
>> Yeah. Allah will delete their sin. Okay.
But this is mean there's a reward for something good you do. Okay. But this is contradiction for all what we spoke about before that Allah he guide whoever he will and Allah misguide whoever will and there's no way to guide the one who Allah misguides.
My understanding is those who go against themselves and believe in the Quran and submit.
>> No my friend, my friend. No, no. If Allah already misguide you, you cannot guide the one who Allah misguide you. We agree about that, right?
>> Well, at least one can try, it's up to Allah after.
>> No, no, no. This is about try. This is not about try. Let us go to the basic.
If you if Allah is saying the one I misguide, nobody can guide. It's confirmed that nobody can guide. Do we agree?
>> Yeah, I agree. Nobody can guide. So this guy, how this guy now if we say to him if you believe in Muhammad Allah will forgive your sin that will not work because already you say there is always hope >> my friend you just agreed.
>> Yeah >> you just agreed that if Allah misguides somebody nobody can guide him true or false. Okay so let us say this is talking about me. Okay. And now I saw this verse and I decide to believe in Muhammad.
>> All right.
>> Based on the Quran, I was misguided because Allah decide to misguide me. Do you agree?
>> Yeah, could be true.
>> No, don't tell me it could be true.
Either yes or no.
>> I can't really say yes because I don't have knowledge of Allah. We just for the sake of argument, I would agree with you. Yeah, >> we just agreed a minute ago that Allah is the one who misguide and the one he misguide nobody can guide. So what the point of this verse? There's no point of this verse. He the one he misguided nobody can guide. So how nobody it mean nobody. Nobody that's it. So how this guy if he believe in Muhammad Allah will take off his sin. That's is stupid because it's it mean that you guided him already. You are the one who guided him.
And then if you go to the verse we mentioned already the one it says Chapter 47 verse number five he will guide them but you are the one who said the one he is guide nobody can guide and when you say nobody it mean even himself he will not guide them that's it he didn't say the one who I misguide I might guide he said no one can guide it's confirmed it's final so the whole Quran is just a collection of funny stories and doesn't make any sense.
And look here, chapter 4 47 verse number seven. I'm just reading for you the verses you quote for me.
>> Yeah.
>> The chapter. Oh, who you believe if you if you support Allah, Allah support you.
But this is a contradiction for if the one who Allah misguide.
Nobody can guide. Why? Because if they support, Allah support.
But Allah told us in the other hand that Allah guide and the one he guide is the one who is the winner.
He did not say if you support I support.
He said the one I guide is >> the victorious and the one who I misguide you will go to hell. So what the point of saying if you support Allah Allah support you simply here just Muhammad trying to make Muslims go and fight and die for his sake.
>> Well see my answer would be if you go against yourself right now and believe in the Quran and do good deeds and on the day of judgment Allah would have no case against you to send you to hell.
>> My friend if he said already the one he guide even the prophet he cannot guide the one who he deceived nobody can guide him. So what is against you?
>> If you don't you believe in yourself, you can go against everything and change.
>> No my friend, no no because it is a premade decision that you are misguided already. So how how you can change? You know the everything in the Quran confirm that you cannot change anything. Allah he made a destiny for you. Whatever he decided for you, your fate is already written before he created you and you cannot change that. And that faith is including your uh age, your wealth, >> your belief, uh your act, your crimes, your deeds, anything you do. So you are not really a person who is making choices according to Islam. You are a person who is just a programmed machines and you do exactly as you are programmed. So how you can go against yourself when yourself is a software programmed and you do exactly what is written for you.
>> Well it's all Allah's will I would say.
>> Yeah. Allah will okay.
>> All I do is I I try my best to avoid sins and beware of Allah and praise Allah and do my best that that's all I can do. That's the best I can do.
>> You remember a verse that says Yeah.
>> Okay. What what does that mean? Do you know >> that you do not will Allah wills if Allah wills?
>> So you just answer yourself. So you are saying to me I just try. You are not trying anything. It is at the end of the day it's Allah will.
>> Well it's Allah's will. What else? No.
>> I really don't have answers for this question. CP to be honest with you. I don't have I'll be honest with you. I'm not going to make up stuff or you know argue with you or something. I don't have answer. I'm honest with you.
>> I I understand. I understand actually.
This why I'm talking to you. I'm not screaming at you like the others because you don't you know you just say what you believe and you like you take it take it but you don't play games. But here you know what the what the verse is saying that anything anything you decide to do it's Allah who decided it is not you. If you go as an example to chapter 6 verse 111. Can you read for me?
>> Uh which one?
>> Chapter 6 verse number 111.
>> 111.
Okay. It says, "And even if we had sent down to them the angels with the message and the dead spoke to them and we gathered together every created thing in front of them, they would not believe unless Allah should will. But most of them are ignorant.
>> Do you see it?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, you will not believe it's if unless it's Allah plan.
>> Yeah. That's why I'm not arguing with you.
>> Well, thank you very much for calling my friend. Thank you very much. Call me again when you wish. All right. Thank you.
>> Yeah. Okay. Take care. Okay.
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