This conversation cuts through the noise of identity politics by grounding Pan-Africanism in pragmatic political utility rather than just historical romanticism. It offers a necessary framework for understanding how distinct cultural experiences can still serve a unified front against systemic oppression.
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Delineation or Diaspora? Conversation w/ Griot & Dynast AmirAdded:
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>> Peace [snorts] fam. We are live again.
Donnie Samir, search for Huru. Thank you all. Thank you so much for joining. Uh, hit that like button. You guys know the drill. Hit that like button. Make sure you share. Make sure you subscribe.
All that good stuff. Uh, we have a special guest with us. Um, she is in the queue. She'll be joining us here once I get through the um announcements.
But yeah. Yeah. Looking forward to um Sagal. We leave for Sagal.
um Saturday and I'm I'm excited about synagogue. Y'all know I love synagogue.
Synagal it's just um and it's my fault, y'all.
It's u my fault.
I don't speak the language, you know. And it's really a shame.
It's really a shame that I do not speak the language. And I only have to blame myself for that.
But I'mma learn it. I have to learn Yoruba. I have to learn Wolof. And I have to learn French.
And um Come on, Dinus. Come on. And Creole.
Those on the Those are on the must have to do list.
I have to do it. And I will. I will.
Don't count me out.
Do not count me out.
Yeah, I I've had this Hawk shirt for shoot [snorts] about 10 years now.
I've had this Hawk shirt for a minute.
Yeah, that's the uh that's the topic.
Shout out to everybody in the chat room.
Where are you now? I am in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm in Atlanta.
I'll be here till Friday. Friday, head to New York. Saturday, we head to synagogue.
And I want to thank all of you guys for being here. Let's uh get into the announcements. We're rolling the synagogue on Saturday. If you want to roll, hit me up. Uh we're also going to Nigeria in August for the Oun Festival.
That's August 2nd to the 11th. Uh if you're interested in joining, please visit donfo. That's danfo.africa Africa to learn more. Also, we're doing Zanzibar and Kenya in September. Oh, just guys, special announcement. I'm partnering with Traverse Culture. Um, this Kenya trip is going to be special because we're going to be focusing on um medical tourism and real estate and I wanted to make sure it's done the right way. So, on that part on that portion, we're going to be partnering with uh Traverse Culture on that. Then we're doing Ghana and Ivory Coast in uh that's going to be in November November. Then Benine Republic in January.
Guys, everybody's welcome. So listen, everybody's welcome to this chat. Okay, everybody.
Again, everybody is welcome to this chat. You know, guys, I just it just kind of know annoys me a little bit when people ask, "Why are you here? Let them be here.
Let them be here. They are more than welcome uh to to to join us. But this is the Don for South Africa site. Check it out. Love to have you. Without further ado, we're going to bring our sister on uh Nira Grio of the Daspor. And today's topic, um you know, there's a delineation movement going on.
delineation.
That's the the word of the day now.
And so if you're delineating, do you because the rhetoric I hear, you know, from a lot of the delineators, you know, like do you really consider yourself part of the the greater daspor at this point?
So, we're going to have um the conversation. you know, if you guys want to call in and add to the convo, uh, we'll put the link in the chat and you're more than welcome to add to the um, conversation. Do I think the citizenship programs alone will be back in November? I don't know. Like I I I really don't know. All we know is it's on hold for now. Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean those who you know and I know everybody um you know everybody has their I don't know issues that might arise and for some reason can't make it or or whatever. Um but yeah November I tell people November of 2023 was the last year where you could come and and get your past citizenship in a 10-day period. Uh them days are over. uh you know they changed the rules um as far as you had to come twice. Um and we were just we have people in the queue that are still waiting uh to get the green light to come get their passports in November or I'm sorry or whenever that have already done their uh done their first trip because you know you have to come twice now. So hopefully um you know the uh the process gets back started and these people get out of queue and get they get their passport. So but we'll we'll wait and see. It's a waiting game as she drinks her coffee or tea.
How you doing?
>> Yes, it's coffee. I'm good. Also, it's Nikki G. Hard eye.
>> Nyra. I'm sorry I said Nikira. Sorry about that. Nra, >> you're totally fine.
>> Nar, I appreciate it. Uh, have you been to synagogue before?
>> No, I have not. I've only been to Togo and Ben.
>> Okay. You're kind of you're uh you're crackling your mic.
>> Is it better?
>> No, it's still crackling.
>> Okay, one second.
How is it?
>> Still cracking. Still crackling.
>> Okay, >> guys. Uh, press one in the chat room if it's crackling. Press two if it's not.
You know, just want to make sure it's not on my end, but it's still crackling.
But yeah, as far as the cship program goes, we're we're still we're in a holding holding pattern.
That's all I know. Yeah. One. Yeah, it's crackling. You're on mute now. But yeah, it's it's everybody's saying it's crackling. Go ahead.
>> How's the sound now?
>> Better. There you go.
>> It's fine. Okay.
>> Yeah, it's fine. We're good to go. We're good to go. All right. So, you know, hopefully, like I said, the program will get greenlighted again, but right now it's on pause. And I'll say this with everything that's going on.
They Sierra Leon has their reason and it's I would say I understand.
So now we just got to see how it's a win-win for both sides and take it from there.
But Nara G, go ahead, introduce yourself.
Um, hi y'all. Um, hopefully some of you guys have already been subscribed to my YouTube or you guys are coming in from Tik Tok. But I am Nyra G, also known as Grio the Diaspora. Um, I started my YouTube channel in 2022 while I was living in Ghana.
And yeah, I've been going to Ghana since 2013. I'm a study abroad alumni of University of Ghana and I've been going to Ghana a bunch of times. Um, I lived in Ghana from 2022 to 2025. I recently just came back last year. Um, I will be back. Um, so yeah, that's pretty much it.
>> How was your experience in um at University of Acra, right? University of Ghana.
>> Uh, University of Ghana, Leon. Yeah, in Acra >> Leon in Ara. Okay. How how was that experience?
Um, I mean I loved it. I was my my bachelor's is in black studies, Africana studies. So I was a part of the Institute of African Studies. Um, so I mean I loved it. I had a full schedule um, six classes per semester. I lived on campus so um, you know, the power was out frequently. That was back [laughter] in May.
>> Um, before Uber, before a lot of the, you know, things that are there now.
>> But I mean, it was fun. Obviously, it was like, you know, new, but I would do it again.
>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, delineation or diaspora?
That's a that's an interesting topic.
So, Greg in the chat room is saying, "Is black America part of the African diaspora?" The answer is yes. Are black Americans African? The answer is no.
It's not really that hard of a concept to uh to grasp.
Black Americans are no more African than the whites in American America are English.
[snorts] Let let's um um unpack unpack that.
>> Um I mean I don't really think that there's anything to unpack. I don't compare myself to white people. So if you only understand yourself through the eyes of a white person, that's a personal that's a personal thing. Um, I think that to be particularly a part of the descendants of the transatlantic slave trade is a very particular experience.
>> Um, and all of us do not have the same exact lineage. Um, all of us are not mixed with the same things. Um, some of y'all are a little bit more mixed up than others. Um, so I just feel like it's one thing to try to create like the the other term that they love to use is flat blackness. Um, >> now hold on, stop. That that's new. I never heard that. That's new.
>> Yeah. They they basically feel like, you know, um they don't want to be considered African. They don't want to they don't want Africans to be able to uh you know uh take on our culture and all this this flat blackness identity.
But to be black American in the way that they're describing it, they're already performing flat blackness because we all don't share the same culture in my personal opinion. Um I don't share the same exact culture as every single black American person um in this country. So even the term black culture, black community, those are already examples of performing this flat blackness that people seem to be so afraid of. Um, but yeah, I just feel like this idea that if one person identifies with the continent or identifies with their African heritage that all of a sudden it's a problem to people who want to be nationalistic or people who are so proud to be American. And I just feel like those are decisions that we individually can make. If you're very proud to be an American, you're very proud of the being a nationalist.
That doesn't mean that every single black person has to be the same thing, >> right? What um so I just found out about about a new term called Solon. Is are you familiar with that term? Is that like flat blackness? Solon. Are you familiar with Solon?
>> Um I've seen it online. Um I've never met someone with that identity, but I've seen it online. Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay. Um, so delineation in daspora I I just like you said there's like certain like within the delineation there's people delineating cuz like there's the delineation like Greg said you know we're uh uh we're still part of African diaspora. We're just not African. Then there's part of the delineation saying we're uh Native American Indians, you know, and where the slave ships at.
like where's this disconnect?
>> Um, I think that a lot of people's parents failed in a lot of different ways. Um, I think that because at least for me, I understand my blackness through my parents, through the family that I grew up with. I identify with my parents. I identify with my grandparents, >> people that I did not have to look up online. I did not need to look them up in a DNA test. I didn't need to go to the library and ask for records. Um, I just identify with what my parents are.
Um, so I can't really speak on like where it came from. Um, obviously we know that the different people who, you know, come up online and they become, you know, popular and stuff like that, then there's obviously that situation.
But, um, the concept of the delineation situation is very >> NA, real quick, real quick. Is your um, is the other mic on? Cuz you're starting to crackle again. I don't know if it like cut on. Yeah, you're crackling again.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Somebody in the chat room said the crackling is back. Yeah, you're crackling again.
>> I'm not sure cuz I'm on my laptop. I'm not sure.
>> Yeah. Yeah, you're crackling. Yeah.
Yeah. Everybody's saying you're crackling again.
>> Okay, hold on, >> guys. Hit the like button again. Please hit that like button. Um and we'll put the Oh, the link's in the chat room. If you guys want to call in and add to the combo, you got a question. uh you're more than welcome to click on a link and um add to the conversation.
But yeah, link is in the chat room if you want to come on. You're uh you're more welcome to call on not on other feed. Oh, okay.
Yeah, somebody says crackling.
You're mute. You're mute. Okay. Okay.
Okay.
If you're in the chat room, if you're >> Go ahead.
>> Is it still testing? Testing.
>> You sound good. You sound good. You sound good.
>> Okay.
>> No, you sound good. That's a nice mic.
You sound You sound real good.
>> Okay. Okay.
But go ahead.
But we got to call.
>> You sound good. You sound good. You sound nice. Um, I don't remember where I left off at, but yeah. Um, for me, I I think that the concept of delineating, I just don't really understand the benefit of it. Um, I don't really understand the benefit of being like, oh, I'm not African. I think and I also think that there's a very big difference in um saying that I'm not African at all and saying that I don't have the exact same heritage or the exact same culture as obviously 2,000 plus tribes on the continent. Um, however, comma, I do think that us, like me, people who know that the slave ships are real, people that know that, um, I am a descendant of the transatlantic slave trade. Um, I do think that we are a special class of people at this particular time because of what happened. And I think that, um, a part of our culture in America has always been about discovery. It has always been about rebellion. it has always been about resistance. Um, and that resistance and that rebellion and that discovery has always been linked to Africa. Um, so I choose not to honor um the ways in which colonization and people who hate us have purposely um and intentionally delineated us from the continent um because that was a tool that was a weapon. So I don't identify with something that only benefits white supremacy.
Wash, go ahead.
>> How you guys doing? Um, greetings [clears throat] from Germany, but I am American and, uh, from Oklahoma, worked on lived on reservations. And, um, what she said is 100% true. What Ney would always say is that you got to follow the logic. And what you got to see is that this very strange FBA fight with, you know, people of the diaspora, it we're all black people of melanated skin, and that's all that matters in the system of white supremacy. So from a global stand, I've seen how us as Americans have kind of had this kind of vanity about black culture and thinking that our American black culture is the black culture of the of the globe. And um we we have to understand that the the black culture that we have of America today is nothing but a reaction of black culture of today is just a reaction of white supremacy of America.
We we've forgotten our original religion of America. We we we've lost our mother tongue. That's the difference between us and the diaspora people here on this side of the world. Even though there's black people here in Germany, they still have their mother tongue of Africa. And so that travels with them. But us as black Americans, we've lost our original mother tongue and our mother tongue is now English. So that's one of the main differences between us and we have to say like and let them understand like we've lost it. We were trying to rediscover it and all of us came from one land mass. You can see the geography. You can see where the some pieces of America connected to some pieces of Africa. So when you really break it all down, it was all one land mass. We all were of one people. Black people were the original people of all lands. Japan were the original melon.
They were melanated dark skins. In Ireland, they were dark skin. Like so we have to get off this whole thing of uh we're we were here first. We it doesn't matter. We're all black people on this planet with melanated skin hoping to achieve universal justice and tear down the system of white supremacy. And that's it.
>> Okay.
Nar, you want to add to that before I pass with the Skywalker?
>> Um, no. Go ahead. I'll wait for everyone to go.
>> Go ahead, Skywalker.
And guys, we're also streaming on Grio the Diaspora as well.
For those that don't know, this is a dual stream. And if you're on my page, make sure you subscribe to Nakara at Grio the Diaspora. All go ahead, Skywalker. Oh, he dropped off. All right. Dr. Angela M sales. Go ahead.
That say right. Is it sales or say less or is it say less? Say less.
>> Say less. Yes.
>> Is it Dr. Angela M? Say less. [laughter] I'm gonna say more tonight, but it's sales and um >> sales. Okay, go ahead.
>> You had it right there the first time.
Thank you. I'm I'm tuning in from Cleveland, Ohio.
Um I identify as a foundational black American and someone that used to identify as a Garvey. I'm kind of trying to work through that currently. Um >> let me ask you a question real go ahead and finish. I'm sorry. Go ahead and finish. Well, I would also say I probably did identify as someone who believed in the Panaffrican ideology some time ago, but I'm going through an evolution as our culture is actually going through an evolution. But I'll let you ask your question. Um, >> go ahead.
>> So, I'm I'm starting to notice that a lot of FBA now, they're on this, well, not that many slaves came over and where the ship's at and we're we're already here. So, are you like part of that FBA group or like >> I don't know I don't know if I don't know about the different FBA groups. The reason why I identify as a FBA because it's based on my understanding that foundational black American is a lineage and that means that you can trace your bloodline back to the slave trade here in America and I'm able to do that. So that's why I identify as a foundational black American. I can trace at least two so far two out of the four of my trees uh back to 181 17 and even all the way uh back to the 1500s which were back in Europe um at least the name. So that's why I identify as a foundational black American. Um and I also kind of subscribe to the fact that America the foundations of America were built by black Americans although we were in enslavement. So to me it's is pretty straightforward. But I wanted to address your question on the disconnect >> and why there's a disconnect between um diasporans and Africans or black Americans. It is centered the disconnect is centered in the reparations claim.
>> Okay. I think that is what creates the separation because um for many years from I guess the 50s the 60s the 70s when um our enslaved people became you know free and then start fighting for rights voting rights equality civil rights you know we've been doing resistance for a long time even up to the fact that black Americans were pivotal in the fight for the release of Nelson Mandela back in South Africa and ALS also identify with, you know,wame and Kruma and Julius Ner and uh the freedom fighters that were in Africa. We were at the forefront of that with leadership under you know uh Malcolm X and Martin Luther King and all the names that we can name that we learned about.
And so it's if I think there's an agreement that panafricanism was really birthed in America like the >> ide I would I would agree with that.
>> Okay. So that we're all brothers and sisters. So I think now if we were approaching each other as brother and sisters there's a couple of dynamics that's at play. We identifi we we recognize Africa as our home or our motherland or the our birthplace of our ancestors which means that it's our mother.
>> So do you cons so do you so do you consider yourself part of the the African diaspora?
>> I do.
>> Okay. Go ahead.
>> I do. Yes. Go ahead. Um, so if you know me considering myself part of the African diaspora family and being disconnected from my mother, when at some point when I find my way back to my mother, I have the expectation of a certain treatment and that treatment doesn't really exist in the way that we expect it to. as long lost children.
We're treated I've been to Africa a lot and I'm I'm kind of digressing from my first point about reparations, >> but just in terms of the relationship when we go back, we're just treated as uh mzongu, right? We're treated as ATM machines. We're treated as people who have money. We're treated transactionally for the most part. Now, there are instances where we build relationships that takes time, but in general, we're treated like any other foreigner when it comes to citizenship, ability to return. You have to invest 75,000 or 150,000. Like a transaction has to take place for you to get a green card, a residency, a work permit. So, that's not exactly a motherchild relationship. You know, if my child is gone and comes back, I'm going to welcome you. I'm going to give you a meal, a bed to sleep. You know, you can take a shower. I'm going to welcome you back in a certain way. That's not the relationship that black Americans have with Africa. And I think after 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, it's like, okay, we begging y'all. In addition, you are you our brothers and sisters and you come here to America and then you don't even vibe with us. Like, you put, you know, white folks over building a relationship with us who are your long- lost brothers and sisters.
So, it kind of becomes abusive if it was a onetoone relationship. And after years and years of abuse, yeah, you're going to get fed up like, "Okay, we cool. Keep that same energy and we going to deal with our brothers and sisters over here and we're going to build and do what we need to got we have to do here because we chasing wind at this point." So, I think that's part of the framing of why people are identifying and and kind of tribalizing into foundational black America. So, that's aside from the indigenous argument that's just based on relationship. like can we get a policy like if besides George Floyd, you know, we have so many people brutalized and so many injustices, not one single African government is standing up for us over here. So that's like we're we're still disconnected. And we'll come to the Ghana situation in a minute, which is centered around reparations. And so that is like a win-lose situation for black Americans because the because black Americans have champion pan-Africanism and have got the short end of the stick of being that champion, haven't really realized any real benefits of being the champion other than being murdered and broke, right? I mean, so now it's like, okay, we've been done a harm not only by this country, but we've also been done a harm by uh Africans who were part of those transactions. And so when it's time for our harm to be repaired, black Americans feel like that should come to us. So now in comes Ghana uh last month, right, to the United Nations. And that started off last year at the African Union because it was the decade of it was the year of reparatory justice at the African Union. And so we did that for the whole year and uh President Muhammad championed that cause of reparations and brought it here to New York City to the United Nations.
123 nations voted in favor of, you know, recognizing the enslavement of as the gravest crime against humanity. And to me that was a win because it did show solidarity among the African nations and that if we stick together we can actually get something passed. So that was wonderful. We know who abstained.
The US, Israel and Argentina and most of the European countries. I think it was 55 of them. No, they abstained. The three voted no, right? They voted no.
Three voted no. 55 I think abstained and then it passed. So that was good. But the issue comes in now is that it's been recognized and acknowledged. But the president also asked for a diaspora fund and and the argument is that oh well Ghana and Africa has also suffered harm because our children were stripped away from us and what gains could we have realized as an African country if those brothers and sisters had not been you know enslaved and also can we have a little money to fix up these dungeons that we call castles. So that presents a a a problem for some black Americans.
Like, wait a minute, hold up. Okay, we happy you champion reparations, but you just gonna come in and, you know, grab some money and not really, you know, be the voice of us. So, I think those are some of the layers that may be missing or need to be considered in this conversation while we're trying to figure out why uh there's a delineation and also, you know, are black Americans part of the diaspora? So, I'll land my plane. Thank you.
>> In the car, you wanna you want to respond to that and then I'll pass the the good king justice.
>> Yeah. Can you guys hear me?
>> Ah, you back crackling.
>> Really?
>> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> Can I just um make one point to ask her real quick or just kind of to build on what she just said?
>> Yeah. Go ahead.
>> Okay. I'm from Langston University. I was a campus baby. So, um HB.CU. And I think one of the things that we also don't think about is um what was their experience?
>> Campus baby.
>> Yeah. My mother was a professor at Lynx University. I was pretty much campus baby.
>> Okay. That's what that means. Okay. Go ahead.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I don't know what campus baby means. I don't you know I didn't know.
>> What did you think it would mean? What >> now? As a bartender now I got What What did you think campus baby meant?
>> That you maybe hung out there. your mom got I mean your mom was while she was in school you know got pregnant with you you know >> I thought it was like okay all right well anyway >> um and a bartender here I speak to um Africans and their college experience and when they came to America in college they especially in the 80s um 80s and 90s at the H.B.CU cus they are experience with black Americans on a college level their peer group was very much of a bullying degradating uh experience. Now some of us you know kind of welcomed them in but most of us pointed and laughed and made fun of them for various different reasons. And so that carried over. And so now those people in the ' 80s, you know, 20s, now they're in their 40s and 50s and, you know, our age. And those are the people in and they've told their younger people what to expect when they send those themselves their kids to America. And they they don't that's why there's a difference. They know that they're going to get bullied. They know they're going to get um made fun of within our culture in America. So that's why on a on a basic level there's never really any true unity because we've never accepted them without making fun of them in a degragating way and making fun of their features in a degregating way until maybe in the last 15 years with the majority of us as a culture in America.
Before then in the 80s and the 90s we we we we treated them like [ __ ] And so this is the alchemy of that.
Uh Nara, let's uh see if you >> Hey, how is it now?
>> You sound good. You sound good.
>> Jesus Christ. Okay. Um yeah, I just want to um again address the particular point about the treatment and this transaction that people are talking about. I do think that it becomes a time where for me at least again because I don't expect for everybody to have the same um identity. Um, I'm not going to change my identity. I'm not going to change how I feel about my identity, um, because of a couple of negative experiences that I may have. Um, because if that's the case, then I would change my identity based off of the experiences that I have in my own country with black Americans who are the only people that have disrespected me to the utmost degree.
Um, I've never been in these situations where I'm like, "Oh my god, my life is threatened. Oh my god, these people are treating me so so horribly other than my own people. And so I have the higher racial self-esteem to not do that. And so for me, as somebody who has lived in Ghana, not just visited, um lived in Ghana, started businesses in Ghana, worked with other people um locals as well as other dasporants, there are going to be um negative experiences. As somebody who went to college in Ghana, um I understand that there is a deep rooted colonization that is happening.
Uh just like how I understand with black Americans, when I speak to black Americans and ask about our history, not every single black American that I meet knows our history. Not every single person is my is my um >> I don't know if that's somebody that's somebody. Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> Um yeah, I don't you you know I think that again like you can see the chat.
You see how disrespectful black Americans are. Just because I love going to Ghana, love going to Africa. Look at the responses. That's what your people, our people, that's how we talk to each other. So I don't I get really confused when we make it seem like we just are so righteous and we just oh my god every time I go to the grocery store and see another black person we just hugging and kissing and we just treat each other with so I just get really confused with that because again the only people that disrespect me on this internet um cuz y'all never have the smoke to do it in person. The only people who do it on this internet are my own people who live in the same country. Um, so I think that again like we have to also be honest about the limited life experience many of us have. Um, I didn't I didn't have those negative experiences. Um, I understand the bullying and all that type of stuff. I didn't get bullied in school, so I can't speak on that. Um, I grew up in Compton, California specifically. My parents are from Los Angeles. Um, my grandparents are from Kansas and Mississippi. And um, >> I got I got to ask what part of Mississippi? I just got to ask. I'm sorry. Um I believe Jackson.
>> Okay. That's that's where my family I used to go to Piny Woods Country Life School right below Jackson.
>> Yeah. I've never been to Mississippi, but u my dad's family moved to Stockton, moved to um Northern California before coming down to LA. My mom's family came from Kansas.
>> Um so um I'm just as black American as everybody else. Um I'm just as connected to this um nation just as anybody else.
I don't believe that there needs to be a hierarchy of who gets to go and do their research and because you have the time to do the research or the whatever resources I guess that that puts you on a uh a group hierarchy or racial hierarchy or a cultural hierarchy over other people who don't really feel like they need to do that because I look in the mirror and I see a black person. So for me that there's there's certain things that I think become really disingenuous when we talk about this transactional experience because I mean that could be the same about us here.
We're transactional too. Um our celebrities are transactional. Our business owners are transactional.
>> Politicians politicians are transactional.
>> Our politicians are transactional. When I go and see random black people out in the street it's very transactional.
Right. So and I'm from LA so I grew up in the Hollywood area as well. Very transactional. So, I think that for me again, like as a black studies scholar, as somebody whose degrees, bachelor's and masters are in um Africana studies and black studies, um I have a certain level of cultural grace and understanding um that my professors that all of my black professors, never had a white professor with African studies and Africana studies, um all of my professors have instilled in me and academically trained me to understand what colonization has done to all of us.
Um there is a reality that here in America we are fighting for our black history to be told correctly. Um we know that it has not been told correctly in its full entirety. That is something that we know from elementary school to middle school to high school. We know that the full story of Martin Luther King is not told.
>> We know the full story of Malcolm X is not told. We know the full story of Black Panthers is not told. Like we know that. And I'm pretty sure that if more of us knew that and we had that research and time and resources that some of you do that we would also walk through this world a little bit differently. And so I know that to be the same over on the continent. Now again for me um I've had way too many positive experiences with African people. So, I can't speak for people who have met one or two or three African people and you had a negative experience and you held on to that or for the Africans who had one or two or three negative experiences with black Americans and they've held on to that. I can't speak to that. I have 13 years of experience on the continent. So I've for me I'm very lucky and very blessed that um I can say that I've had way more positive experiences even when I I have to educate people on my >> man the crackling's coming back.
>> I don't know what it is. Yeah, >> maybe turn just turn your mic off and turn it back on.
>> No, that's what I'm going to do.
>> Okay, let me read the super chat. Um let's see here. Um, Elvis Morris 7271. Thank you for tal. Can African-Americans make a case for reparations at the United Nations as citizens of the United States? If so, should Ghana and African Union take a step back and allow African-Americans to lead?
Nar, let's see if your uh mic's working.
>> How is it?
>> Still crackling.
>> Can I respond to that question?
>> Uh, go ahead. I gota pass the king the good king justice because he's been waiting.
>> You want me to wait?
Well, you know, you know what? Let Good King Justice go, then I'll let you uh respond. Go ahead. Good King Justice.
>> Cool. Peace. You hear me? You >> hear you?
>> All right. Uh FBA is not a lineage. All right. Let's get that straight right now. We are descendants of the transatlantic slave trade. And it's not a lineage for a simple reason. And none of our grandparents ever uttered the words FBA. They might have called themselves negro. They might have called themselves color. They might have called themselves black. They never said we are foundational black Americans. that was made up in 2019 2020 by Tariq Nasheed.
Furthermore, to answer the question and the topic of the show, we are part of the daspora. The complate comes in when we look at these problems from the individual aspect as opposed to the political and governmental aspect. A Jamaican and a Haitian are part of the diaspora too, but they have nations. The African-American, the black American does not have a nation. We are still under our former slave master. So that's what a disconnect is. And that's also the problem when it comes to the reparation claim because all nations have their own claims from their various slave masters. We have a claim from the people we was enslaved by. So does the Haitians. So does the Jamaicans. The Africans have claims for reparations for colonialism, the Berlin Conference. So that's where these things get conflated.
But we are part of the diaspora. And FBA ain't a lineage. And I pass.
>> May I just ask him a quick question? And this is not an argument or anything.
Just do do you believe that there was dark skin melonated people on American land before?
>> You don't think there was >> dark skin? When you say dark skin, yeah, it's it's Mexicans that's the same color as me.
>> No, no, no, no, sir. Do you think there were dark-kinned tribe?
>> They weren't us.
>> Okay. So, but do you believe there was dark-kinned people on the plan on the continent before this colonizers came?
>> Darker than you. Darker than me.
>> American continent. North America.
>> Yes.
>> Yes. Aztecs and Mayans. That's not us, brother. We are African.
>> Okay.
>> Very African.
>> Okay. Do you understand that there was >> Eurobas, Hulanis, Ts, Bamalikes, Bambardas, Malink?
>> Have you not seen that there's dark-kinned indigenous tribes of Africa?
The the five civilized tribes were the ones that were given weapons from white supremacy and to eradicate the other sluh tribes of America that were dark-kinned tribes. Do you understand that much or do you disagree with that?
>> We come from Africa, fam. I don't know how many times I got to say it. How many different ways I got there?
>> There's never been a situation where war or colonization has happened where they completely eradicated the people of that land. They subjugate those people.
Meaning they take the women of those people and they either castrate the men and have them work as slaves or they >> where is the enclave of these black Indians that still exist today. Bro, in America, >> what is your question, sir?
>> In every place, every land mass, the indigenous people, they still are living in that land mass. is still Eurobas despite the fact that Africa got colonized. Where are the black Indian tribes, Don Clay?
>> They they've been eradicated through the five civilized because they never existed, fam.
>> Sir, they did, sir. There was there was hundreds there was hundreds of dark-kinned tribes of America >> and they were eradicated and most of them in the uh >> Wait, what's your question, sir?
>> It was no darkkinned native tribe that we come from, >> sir. Yes. Yes, there was. You can seriously look back and find all types of evidence that that is a legit factual statement that I'm making.
>> You believe uh the Grand Can is Egypt upon?
>> No, I don't believe the Wait, no.
>> You believe man Samusa big brother came over here.
>> We're having a conversation. We're having a conversation. Everything I'm saying is beyond logical and factual.
>> It's not logical.
>> Which part is not logical?
>> That we come from Native Americans. That ain't logical.
>> Those are okay. Those were the Okay. Do you not think Okay. In the system white supremacy, don't think that the the white people are not like mad scientists in the way that they breed and interbreed us. Okay. So, the Native Americans that you see today that are on the tribes, they have been delineated from what their original native blood is. That's just the truth of it. The ones that we see today are not the same ones that look like they looked 300 or 500 years ago, even a thousand years ago. That's just the truth.
>> We are not us. We are not Mayans and Aztecs and Incas.
>> I never said that we were. All I say, and maybe if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I'm saying that >> No, sir. You can't just say that. Okay.
>> We're not Native Americans.
>> No, we're not Native Americans. We're something different. We are descend from Native Americans. We desend from Afric Let uh let the car speak. Then I gota pass.
>> You sound good. Go ahead. And then I gota pass the Afro Man.
>> Yeah. Okay. So the because I don't know where the conversation's going. So the thing for me personally again is that we all I I hope I can't say that we all I hope that we all understand the breeding practices that have gone on by the different colonizers again right it is a choice for me particularly to choose to identify with the African descent part right because they are the innocent people in this situation so if being native or indigenous makes you feel better because you found that in your lineage being white makes you feel better. You are more than welcome to identify as such. What I have a problem with is when everybody thinks that when they meet me or meet other people that we're all supposed to be proud of all these other things that are within us or that or things that are not even in our DNA and just because it's in your DNA, you want it to be in mine. If you want to spend money on figuring out which tribe of Native Americans and which ones are going to accept you, you're perfectly like you can do that. That I just I just want us to stop doing this thing where it's like, well, this is what I believe in. And it's like, okay, so what? What am I supposed to do with that? Do you want to play dominoes? Do you want to celebrate your birthday?
Like, what am I supposed to do with that? You believe that or you found that in your DNA? I don't know what else I can do with that information. So now what? after you realize that you have a certain DNA and I do not. Now what does that make you superior to me? Does that make your life more valuable than mine?
What are we supposed to do after that conversation? That that's just why I don't waste that that part of the who was here thing because I don't I personally don't care who was here, who got mixed up because I know that that was breeding. I know that all of that was being done while people were not looking at us as humans. That was not being done out of love. that was not being done um for us to even be here today. So regardless of what either one of you guys believe in. So now what can I jump in? I think the reason why it's important I for me it's both and it's not either or. So I don't have an argument except some of the logic is a little skewed and I like to kind of root my responses in scholarship information and research. But I think the reason why it's important how we identify is because if some of our ancestors were already here before Columbus came, then there's a certain relationship that we have with this particular land. If some of our ancestors came on the boat and were promised land and a mule at some point and didn't receive it, then there was a harm that still has not been repaired. So, you know, I understand that that's the significance of lineage and identifying, you know, who your ancestors are. But I wanted to respond to the super chat um question and the brother alluded to it a little bit. Can African-Americans represent themselves?
Um how did he frame it up? Can African-Americans make a case for reparations at the United Nations as citizens of the United States? And we've been doing that for uh many years. Uh the we charge genocide campaign is decades old. Um it was brought by Paul Robersonson, Malcolm X, the Fenans, um France Francis Fenan to the UN. The issue is that we are living in the United States and we're citizens of the US. Some people have dual citizenship.
Not talking about that, but if you were born here, you're a citizen. And so in the United Nations, the voice or the representation is made up of member states. And so because black Americans are not a member state, even African diasporas in Europe, they're not a member state. We're we're inside of another state. Then we can advocate a civil society, but we don't have a vote as a collective body. Um, and that's why KARCOM is actually making more progress right now. uh in its relationship with the heads of states of Africa and the African Union, we will call it the global south, um is moving in a certain way where the global north, those of us diasporans that live in the global north are unable to um you know really have a voice at the UN. We can advocate and we do do that through the permanent forum for people of African descent. It's the second decade for African people right now and other mechanisms and instruments. But as a b as black Americans, we we're not a we're not a state. And so that's why we can't really have a vote in any resolutions um that happens in the UN. So I hope that that answers your question, brother Elvis Morris.
>> Okay, let me read these super chats.
Kevin D 1987, thank you for dona African studies.
>> Can you hear me?
>> Yeah, I hear you. I hear you fine. We hear you fine.
>> Can you hear me? [snorts] >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, and I'm definitely open to hear the scholarship um and to hear the rooted information. Um because I I just feel like if that's the case, then why are not Native Americans who you may find in your DNA, why are they not fighting for you guys to get the reparations on for those of you who are Afroindigenous?
>> Would you like me to answer that?
>> Hey, Dus, can I can I talk now?
>> Hold on one second. I don't I don't um Guys, give me a second. I don't think um I don't I don't think Nara can hear us.
Nara can Yeah, she can't hear us. She can't hear us.
She can't hear us.
Um >> well, what I'm saying is the car maybe leave and come back cuz Yeah. Yeah.
>> Uh real quick.
>> No, hold on. Let her come back. Let me pass the mic. Uh let me read this. Kevin De, thank for that. Holla, go ahead.
Skywalker. Dr. Skywalker's v uh vigilatti.
Okay, Dus, the issue with African-Americans, first of all, we are obviously a part of the diaspora, but African-Americans are suffering from a case of involuntary servitude. And unlike unlike a lot of other Caribbean countries who are also a part of the diaspora and as as as one of the as the brother just alluded to, he said that those along with the Caribbean, they uh one of the unique factors about the Caribbeans is that they actually have a nation. but the but African-Americans that we don't have a nation. We're just a large group of black people inside another nation for you know known reasons. And as a result of that um and we don't talk about this enough and one of the brothers just mentioned language and but every time I bring up language somebody's always trying to downplay language but but but language is extremely important because it's the largest program and and it's literally inside our brain. So if we don't really do a linguistic analysis and and also let alone a psychoanalysis, we can't [clears throat] really understand the reason that we really even think the way we think. And that's why I always bring up Dr. Amos Wilson, you know, like Dr. Amos Wilson really, in my opinion, produced the true psychoanalysis of the black mind such that such that we can really understand the way that we believe the way uh uh the things that we believe and the way that we think the way that we think. And me being a lawyer, you know, like I say, I'm I'm in a challenge right now. Uh one of uh one of the the sister that you got on her as a guest just mentioned problems with the problems with the African curriculum. I mean problems with the curriculum here in America. And I don't know if other places um uh where you find black people like in Africa. I don't know if they share this same uh error with the curriculums with their children over there. But I know that in America, we got a we got a group of black people in America who go to school from kindergarten to 12th grade. And and and let me let you know this involuntary servitude thing. It it's not just exclusive to like the young people. It's not just exclusive to the Pooky and Ray Rays. It's exclusive even it applies involuntary servitude applies even to the to the intellectual black people, the black people with the doctorate degrees and everything. And and the and the reason for that is because like like like the sister just mentioned, our curriculum is so messed up, but we don't really understand what's really going on with these curriculums. And like I say all the time, Dis uh Browns v Board of Education, which was the case that integrated schools, what's going on is is that the school systems around America are taking an extra step from Brown v. Board of Education. In other words, Brown v. Board of Education held that separate but educational facil uh separate but equal educational facilities was unconstitutional.
And so what the schools are doing, they're trying to pretend as if same educational facilities also mean same education. And that's not the case. And as a result of us allowing them to to take this extra step for as a result of us allowing them to pretend as if educational facilities also mean same education that has allowed all of our all of this large group of black people in America to only be educated in a euroentric curriculum. As a result they have no sense of self, no sense of pride. They can't even take their degrees that they get in college, their engineering degrees, their aerodynamic degrees, all the all their law degrees, all they can't even take these degrees and use them to build up their own community because and all they do is take these degrees and build up someone else's community because all that has to do with the type of mental conditioning or or in other words, the type of psycho conditioning that has been implemented in these schools on our children. As a result, it has imposed a psychoanalytic state or a psycho condition of involuntary servitude, which just means that you are in a state of servitude, but you are completely unconscious of that servitude because the legal definition of involuntary means unconscious. It don't just mean that you didn't volunteer for something.
>> Hey, Scott, Skywalker, let's um kind of get back on topic.
>> But see, but see, Dus, that's the topic.
I mean that that's the reason that we come up with all these different frameworks to get away from being African, right? We come up with all these different ways to to negate being African. It don't even make sense.
Matter of fact, Dr. Amos Wilson teaches us, it's self-defeating and it's self-hatred. It it don't even make sense. But the root to that is is that like the sister just said, we can only view the world through the lens of a European because that's the only type of education we have on top of only using on top of using a European language to communicate with each other. the brother the brother on the panel just mentioned language right you know and the lady here uh uh the sister here she said she spent some time in Ghana and I speak chi right you know I'm a study of chi I read the proverbs you know I'm really fluent in chi which is crazy I got taught myself but like a perfect example Dus what I mean by this is that do you know what the word for black is in chi in Ghana in the African language okay one of the words is a bb but that's not the word I'm talking about another word for black is to tune tomb, right? Tomb tomb, right? That means to be real black, right? But the word for can, the word the verb for to be able to, right? In English, the word the verb for to be able expresses with the word can, right?
But in in chi, the verb for to be able to in in chi is expressed with the word to me, right? To me means to be able, but it also is the word for power. But guess what? It also has the root for the word black. Skywalker 35.
>> I'm I'm making a huge point here. Dis you got to understand me here. It also got the word >> I got to pass the mic. Skywalker 35 seconds, please.
>> Okay. So So the word literally the word for black the word for black in the black language literally means power or to be able, right? Whereas the word for black in English has the word lack in it which means to be low. And the word white has the word height in it which means to be high. So the very language that we are speaking doesn't even represent us properly. So we need to really understand the the linguistic programming that we have let alone the psych uh the psychoanalyst that we need to undergo to really understand the reason that we come up with all this [ __ ] >> Okay. So I'm done.
>> Go visual.
>> All right. Can y'all hear me?
>> Yeah, we hear you.
>> Okay. My boy is passionate. Okay.
>> Um so this is what I'mma say. Um, from everything that I've heard so far, the only the the first thing that I'm going to say is that I've never been treated bad by um people that we would consider to be continental Africans. I was just on live earlier with a woman who is from the Ibu tribe, which is one of the tribes that I'm from, and we had a very beautiful and productive conversation on how to bridge the gap between acting in America and acting in um in Nigeria and what that looks like in real time. Um when I have my conversations with the people of the Menday and the Timnney tribe, we have good conversations. the Balanta tribe.
We have good conversations with with with that we talk about positivity and progression. Um to speak to what she said earlier about the United Nations, that was Malcolm's uh goal and that was his dream when he got the support of the 33 African leaders for him to be able to go to the UN and talk about what was going on in black America. Um, if you ask me, I would say that he's looking down and he's smiling on what happened with with the Ghana president and the representation that we got in the way that the votes went. If you ask me, when I talk to Bernice King and we have our conversations, I I would think that her father was uh looking down and smiling as well, too. Um I think that there's a lot of memory loss and um the way that Mir Maradafi was trying to connect the diaspora with Farrakhan and also the relationship that the boyce had with I think it'swam I know I'mma pronounce his name wrong um but for those who know who that is uh the first president >> yes um I think that people have a selective memory when it comes to us always uh attempting to connect this diaspora and that that's it's a forever thing. So when people say that pan-Africanism is dead, that's always going to be a lie because there's always going to be a longing for all of us to uh to regroup with each other. We're seeing it right now in real time with eyes shall speed being in the Caribbean. We're seeing it every single day. Um, and as far as what she said about the tourism thing, I don't know any race or ethnicity that doesn't trade or that doesn't have economic um, systems within each other to benefit each other or just to have any type of currency exchange within each other. Um, and and nobody's not finessing. Everybody's finessing when it comes to trade and whatnot. that that's so you can't hold that against them for finessing as well.
>> Yeah, I think that the the word I think that when it comes to finessing, I think that it really depends on um there's because it's you you can you can divide that into two things. You have different cultural practices based off of where you were raised and you have a person blatantly just trying to do you wrong just because you're an outsider.
So, I think it really just depends on the type of finessing that's going on.
Um, but I' I've surrounded myself around good people here in America and I've surrounded myself around good people and I plan on going to the continent uh later this year for my first time to visit and because I've set myself up so well um I've surrounded myself around a bunch of great people. The only time that I hear um the hatt being thrown around toward each other is when FBA try to throw it at people who believe who who uh who I who who identify more with being pan-African and I'm not really sure where that comes from and I just want to see a better tomorrow for us. Uh Bernice has agreed to that. When I talk to the local politicians, especially the ones that are be okay about it, they want they agree that they want to see a better tomorrow and that not be a part of the tomorrow and I really just want to know what the plan is, especially as far as the FBA. I want to know what what exactly is the goal. What do you want to do in America and how can a person who would consider themselves to be pan-African help in what you're trying to do? If you even want the help, just be clear on the goals. Leave the ha.
>> They don't want the help, bro. They don't want the help.
>> Are are you asking me this? I Are you asking me this?
>> If you have an answer, I don't mind you answering.
>> Absolutely I do.
>> I'll make it super quick.
>> Well, wash real quick. U you can you can respond. Give him the answer. I know you had a question for uh Nyra. So, or you want to respond to Nyra, too. So, >> go ahead and respond for the art of conversation. I'll answer this one because that's what the chat is hearing, right? So, just I'll answer that quick and then we'll I'll I'll let other people jump in from what I say on that.
Um, once we as black Americans deline from Christianity and this Masonic Christianity that's kind of programmed us and rediscover Mother Earth and indigenous religion because that's the closest we can get to what our clo what our mother tongue and mother religion was. U, once we get back on that, we go to the uh reservations because I'm from reservations. I've seen reservations.
It's nothing but land that we could be using to deconstruct this [ __ ] ideology that's been programmed on us and almost for two or three generations just live and exist in harmony and peace and kind of get back to get back to being in the water. Get back to being natural, get back to being with mother earth, study towels that all the religions come from the diaspora. So we need to rediscover all that and deconstruct ourselves from Christianity and then from that get some of the benefits because again when you're on the reservations the governments are limited limited on how they can tax you, deal with you and even um subjugate you.
Uh indigenous people have a lot of rights that we as black Americans do not understand that we have and should have.
And if we get on the reservations, we have a certain protection where we can essentially just exist in harmony for a bit and then come out of that with a concrete plan on what we can do to actually improve in this system of white supremacy because right now we need to just simply heal.
>> All right. Uh Nara, you could respond. I gota pass the Q butter.
>> Dian, I think I'm next.
>> Oh, my bad. Afro man. Afro man, let me do this. from man. Let me um let Nara respond. Then I'll pass it to you. Did I pass the cute butter? Because you you've been waiting. But go ahead, Nara. Then I pass the cute butter.
>> I'm pass it to you to the cute butter.
>> Um how's my sound?
>> You hear you? Go ahead.
>> Okay, cool. So um speaking of scholarship and rooted information, um I want everyone to be very clear that Ivan Van Certa has been debunked for decades now. in my black Indians course at SF State um and by my Afroindigenous professor that I had who can prove his lineage. Um there are multiple Mexican-American anthropologists.
There are black and African scholars as well as indigenous scholars who have um debunked Ivan Van Certa. So I just want that to be very clear um since we bringing up scholarship.
Um, so since we're off of that, >> who brought up scholarship?
>> Um, >> sorry, >> who who brought up scholarships?
>> Um, the woman prior said that she only goes off of scholarship and >> ah, okay.
>> Rooted evidence and information and there are indigenous people who have said that Ivan Ben Certa was incorrect.
>> Um, so I just want to make that clear.
Um, so yeah. So, um, and based off of just kind of going off of what Vigilante said, you know, I think that again it is really important to understand, um, the goal, um, because I think that when it comes to reparations, many of us can agree on black Americans deserving reparations. I think that it's also really expansive to also acknowledge that we are not the only ones who went through enslavement. Um, [clears throat] and we do not have one colonizer that we have multiple. Um, especially when you include Louisiana, >> um, and things like that. And I'm from California. When you talk about California, there are multiple colonizers outside of the British.
>> So, I think that when we expand that reparations conversation, obviously there is a very specific reparations that we can um acquire. And and again, I I'm not even clear on what reparations means to different people. If if some people think that it's a stimulus check, um I'm not interested in that, me personally. Um and again, I I still want to understand what the goal is. Um, and like vigilante said, um, if the if the goal is for people to have to have clonelike mentalities and clone-like thinking and to delineate and to not enjoy the u multiplicity of cultures that we have the freedom to enjoy because at no point when I'm in Ghana when I'm speaking the language masatri as well um no one ever says that's my language, don't speak it. When I wear their jewelry, no one ever says take that off. um when I'm wearing their clothes, no one ever says that's my culture, but I can't say the same about here. Um so I think that it's really interesting. So I just think that again like I want to know what the goal is. I want to know what the overall goal is for all of the different 50 states who went through very different types of not only slavery but how everyone became freed is also not linear. It's not the same, right? every some people beca some groups became freed in different ways and for different reasons and became very specific groups of class people with very specific um intentions as well. So yeah, I'm very curious on what the goal is. Um and regardless of if somebody uh you know wants to highlight the African part of their ancestry um what does that have to do with whether you get reparations or not? Because for me as a black American um who has lineage in this country, I'm not in control of the census. I'm not in control of the government. I'm not in control of how you classify your identity. So, I'm just curious as to why the vitriol is towards each other since we're not transactional with each other.
I'm just really curious as to why the vitriol is with each other instead of with the government.
>> All right, let me uh go ahead Afro man.
I'll pass the queue. Go ahead, Afro man.
Okay, thank you D. Peace to everyone uh on the panel. Um I think it is important that we understand and uh come from Ghana and so I have a perspective that is informed by my experience uh as a Ghanaian but as well as being very familiar with the US and uh black Americans. And I think what needs to be appreciated and understood is the fact that when it comes to the African diaspora, black Americans occupy a unique position in that they are what about 50 million people right now in terms of population in the US and they are like a nation within a nation and that's important because when you say an Africanism is dead. It's not dead. It has evolved and it's evolved beyond a point where black Americans initially uh started it from the the the the phase or the epoch where panafricanism uh basically moved around studies of ancient Egypt and discovering the blackness of ancient Egypt and the builders of the pyramids. We have evolved and moved beyond that point.
We have moved to the point where now it's about political pan-Africanism.
And so when you and that's important because black America is not its own nation. If you and I've said this before, I've made this point before. If you want to see how Pan-Africanism is actually functioning and working in today's world. Take a look at how Africa is relating with the Caribbean countries. Okay, Jamaica, Barbados, Bermuda, many of these countries don't require visas to travel to Africa to many of the African countries. When you look at the fact that black America is not involved in this because you are carrying the passport of a country that you do not control and govern. There is no way that we can say free visas for black Americans alone without discriminating against area the American. And so that puts you guys in a unique position that sometimes make you feel that panafricanism is dead when it's not dead. In fact, I would say Panaffricanism has never been stronger than currently uh than what it is currently. The second point that I want to make is on the issue of uh bad experiences between Africans and black Americans. And I've been hearing this song played a lot of times. But I want us to also um factor in the fact that Africans in Africans living in the US, I'm talking about Africans from the continent living in the US have had very very bad experiences.
Um if you listen to um people I mean celebrities like Michael Bson okay who's Ghanaian partly Ghanaian partly from Liberia you would hear of his experiences. I remember um watching black American movies. If there's a black American movie and there's an African character, that character is always almost always almost always uh caricatured in a way that you you you expect to find in a white movie.
So if you look at Barershop, look at the the the character from Africa, look at Coming to America and a host of other black American movies, okay? You don't find >> Watch School Days.
>> Okay. I haven't watched that one unfortunately.
>> One one minute there has the cube butter. One minute.
>> Okay. So, when you look at all of these aspects, you find out that one, Pan-Africanism is not dead. It has evolved beyond the conferences and the speeches about Egypt and the blackness of Egypt to the point where now it's it's a political movement. And because African-Americans don't have a political government of their own, it is easy for them to look at it and say, "Well, what's happening to uh panafricanism?"
Um, black America in my opinion was and is the biggest obstacle to the UN resolution that was implemented or placed uh by Ghana. I have not heard any opposition from the Caribbean countries.
The biggest opposition has actually come from black America. I'm not saying that all I mean we know that black American leaders were involved in placing the resolution at the United Nations. So I'm not saying that but I'm saying if you look at the loudest anti- uh voices, it has actually come from black American.
And I think that we have to reook, examine ourselves as Africans so that we can unite better and have a better plan and strategy because our enemies are also getting better at organizing. So that's what I'll say for now.
>> All right, go ahead butter.
>> Yo, Dus, what's good E family?
>> What's good, man? It's been a minute.
>> Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Great convo, sis. I I had to go back and listen to what you were saying. was definitely kicking gems. But I I got to respond to the brother that just spoke.
Um, one, the internet is not the representation of Panaffricanism.
Most of the people that's on the internet with buzzes who parade into these conversations do not represent it.
The Tik Tok views, this is coming from everybody. If you go on Tik Tok and you listen to Nigerians arguing with South Africans, that is not panaffrican. If you listen to FBA yelling at these, that is not panafricanism.
The issues and who held back America's support of reparations was white people.
The same white people who were not supporting of reparations in America.
Just because we don't have a continent, the political forefront of black America was the foundation of the political forefront of much of the conversations in the Panaffrican world. And it wasn't always about hotelism like it was not about that. It was very much about supporting the independence movement because in the 50s and 60s nobody was damn near independent.
Most of the countries were trying to get the independence and that's something that people forget that majority of these countries we're discussing are like 50 60 70 years old which pick one Trinidad, Panama, Jamaica like they they're very young in their pursuit of or rather in their um relishing of their independence. And so to just blanket statement that everybody is about Egypt that is like there are black institutions in America that have been running 80 70 years just as long as some of your countries have been established who have been dealing with the the realities of working within a global system and much of what we say in America is a global system and the in the the integrated aspect that we have to deal with in trying to find a point of sustainability.
and to differentiate our pursuit of sustainability and liberty as different than in another countries when in a global system majority of these fiat countries that we represent in Africa are not real governments.
They do not represent the people. And so if people think that these governments in Africa who were established by the establishment in in globalist globalist empires who gave them the allowance to say here's your little tricklets of independence while you're underneath our parliamentary system, you're underneath our global system, you're underneath our economic system, you can go and run away. People think those are the real governments. And so people people hold African nations accountable based off of these fiat governments. And so we have to understand both sides of the conversation and recognize that the reality of being a Panaffrican is based off the reality that white folks are still doing and trying to maintain a position of power against black people.
And it's in our interest to find a way to work together like the sister said transactionally so we can quantify it over time and actually have an impact that we can measure and actually predict what the what the effects will be over time. And I think that's a conversation that is going to happen and is happening whether we like it the way the internet is in is inspiring it. I've watched DZ push this conversation for literally five six years.
I'm saying like there's other people that have done it by myself. And so if you just keep pushing the conversation and one thing I can say about Panaffricans in America, we have a large amount of he very welleducated people, wellestablished people, people who are some of the strong professionals. I could name attorneys right now, professors of departments, engineers, heads of the um of of boards who are stark pan-Africans. They're not out here running and debating with Tariq Nasheed.
They don't they they're running school boards. They they they're debating on policies. They're actually working in what whether we like it or not in and around the system to find ways to liberate and provide equality for black people. And I think it's it's it's when I hear that it's just and that's across the board. That's from America to Jamaica to Nigeria. Black people are doing that. I just rest there. Shout out to the sister. I just wanted to shout out.
>> I just wanted to shout out to you.
>> Hey D, can I say one more thing before I get off?
>> There's an echo.
>> Yeah, D.
>> Just say I'm about to get off real one more thing. Oh, I got you got one minute. Go ahead.
>> Let me see.
>> Oh, yeah. It's Skywalker.
>> Oh, yeah. It's Skywalker. You >> Oh, it's me. Okay. I'm sorry. Let me >> uh Well, he's fixing his mic.
Passport King. He's been waiting. I can pass it back to you. Wash. Go ahead.
Pass yourself.
>> Good evening everyone. Good evening, Don. Thank you for allowing me on to speak. Um, I'll get right to the question. Um, let's see. Is black America really part of the African diaspora? And I can speak for myself, but I will also think that many who identify with the increasing delineation movement in the United States, whether they go by Freeman, Foundational Black American, or they go by [ __ ] or they go by DOS or Sulon. I think collectively we would agree no.
And let me say why. It's not because oh we ashamed of our heritage. I'm gonna get to that in a moment. Can can can we be honest here. Can we and I know people don't like my tone. They don't like my voice. I don't give a damn. Pardon my language. I'm just going to speak speak it straight. Why are we pretending that pan-Africanism and unity exists in Africa? Do we do are are we blind to what's been going on in South Africa the past week, two weeks a borderline gen borderline ethnic cleansing that could quickly become a genocide of foreign um Africans from other nations in South Africa. And that's not the only country.
There's also fighting in Ghana. And now someone say, "Okay, well those are people from different African nations."
Okay, cool. Let's look at any individual African nation inside of Nigeria. You got what over 200 tribes. You got rampant tribalism between regions based on religions. There is no unity in Africa itself. So this constant push that it somehow needs to be on the backs of US slavery descendants i.e. freemen, foundational black Americans. Some go by Diaz, some go buy um [ __ ] some go by Sulon, some go buys.
this thing that is somehow our responsibility to be the world's savior and bring these Africans over into this and I'm going to call I'm not trying to assault no one but pan-Africanism is a is a is a modern day religion and Africa is like some heaven on earth and we see how Africa is in reality and it's not and this and this also something else I'm going to speak on real quick more than one person has stated that black us here in USA. Us who are US slavery descendants or all the multiple other terms I mentioned that some go by, they say that we got no home. What the hell do you mean? We got US passports. Our we got birth certificates. Our ancestry goes back centuries in this nation. Some some of us could trace our lineage in the United States back before the United States existed to when it was the colonial America. Somehow we just supposed to pretend our lineage don't exist and we're not foundational to this country and we supposed to like oh long long for nations that even if a small percentage of our ancestors and it's been proven less than what 5% of enslaved Africans were brought to what we today know as the 13 colonies that became the United States. So if less than 5% was African enslaved, where did the other 95% come from? And yes, don't mention a >> That's not what history says.
>> Oh, what do you mean that's not? No, you won't play that one, brother. No, >> you just said 5% of the enslaved Africans that came across the this transatlantic slave trade actually claimed to North America.
And let me be specific about North America. was what was the 13 colonies that got dissolved into the United States? Less than five%.
The majority went to the Caribbean and also went to Brazil. This is a documented fact. You know, before you speak, you're about to cut me off. This is not Hold on. This is not I'm pulling out of straight air. This is based on shipping laws cuz you know human beings that was enslaved, they was treated like like any other um commodity. They kept very detailed records. They know the percentages. This is not guesswork. So if only and I and I think it was probably 4% but I was just going to say 5% for the sake of argument. If only 5% of modern-day non-immigrant black Americans, whether they go by Freemen, FBA, or [ __ ] or Sulong, because every not everyone uses the same term. And I'm talking about the non-immigrant black Americans, not immigrants from the Caribbean, not immigrants from Africa.
If only 5% of our ancestors are enslaved Africans, where did the other 95% come from? Hold on. You shaking your head.
Hold on. I'm going to I'm going to shake.
That's not what they said.
Hold on. You ain't cut me off my throat.
95% of our answers. Hold on. Hold on.
Hold on. Here's another point. You're not considerate.
You're misating the Hold on. Says everyone that came to the US, well, the 13th colony became hold on one second. Skywalker, you got a you got a like a real mad echo. Uh, Skywalker, go. Uh, hold on. Passport King, you got 45 seconds. I got to pass the mic.
>> All right, I'm going to finish up with this key point. I'm going to show you how much certain people either don't know or they want to play dumb on. If all the black peoples that came to the 13 colonies in United States were all enslaved Africans as someone want to claim. Where did the free men come from?
Cuz there was always free men in the United States. Even the 13 colonies.
Hold on. [laughter] Christmas.
But wait a minute.
>> That's what it free blacks.
>> What the hell?
>> There you go. Now you [laughter] you you let the smoke come out your ears on that one.
>> You know what the word man mission?
>> Have you heard of the word man?
>> He landed.
>> Have you heard of the word man?
>> Have you heard of the word man?
>> Have awesome.
Skywalker. Leave it and come back.
Skywalker you just you got too much background noise going on. Go ahead. Q Butter. I'mma pass it back to uh NA then Dr. May I ask the question to Q Butter then Q Butter can build on it and >> Q up here.
>> How you doing?
>> Can you guys hear me?
>> Yeah, we hear you.
>> Q Butter, everything you said, you're making great points. That's why I was wanted to follow up again so you can kind of build on it. Um, you were talking about where can we find unity?
Um again on this side of the world I see how the system of colonization is affecting the people of the diaspora of um black Germany, black and and I do see that Christianity is a is a is is is a I think it's a huge problem and I think that when both sides deconstruct Christianity and walk away from [clears throat] that and seeing how Christianity is such a a capitalistic mindset and how it's tied to capitalism, I think when we as Americans lose that this money god, we will find ourselves and it be the same with them possibly and maybe that's where we could find unity. But do you think that by us deconstructing Christianity and walking away from it that might be the um way that we could on both sides find common ground and maybe unity?
I think the easiest thing with to find grounds is is understanding white folks.
Like the sister earlier, like very few people talk about the rebellions and we should spend more time studying the realities that the rebellions presented to us. With Queen Nanny, her treaties like she washed the British, but her treaty was that she can't free any more Africans. Francisco Menendez, his treaty, the first free town in America, United States, you had to be a Christian. You know what I mean? So escaping the British and going down south to Florida, you got to go in to become Christian. And so how we understand our integrated reality in this hemisphere with white folks really creates some of these experiences. And then if you look at the truly like separate societies like the Gafuna or the um the Gichchi or some of the other people in like Guyana or the some like there's areas of black people who escaped and they stayed as like like people are trying to rewrite the history of of maroons but these are Africans who escaped into different territories and stayed as themselves and escaped and so but once they got back into connection with the world of colonization it still is the reality right now. people in in what is it in and in and um I forgot what country it is the blacks in these the Africans in these countries once they come out of the little you know their areas they got to deal with white folks and the reality in America is white folks the reality of all of our political fights was white folks the reality of our removal of history is white folks it's not black people jumping up and saying remove our history it's not black people saying we shouldn't be benevolent like we it's white like I I the state the the elephant in the room has been white folks and I think politically we've removed ourselves from being able to say it was white folks that did that. You know what I mean? And then it turned into like our gaslighting. No, it's it's it's literally historically proven and factually data. It's still going. You can look up 2025 has research that literally states that what's holding black people back from STEM, white racism. What is stifling black ownership in America? White racism and lying. Like this is not unknown data. It's like it's just who's standing in the conversation to make the statement. You know what I mean? like this is about us being able to sustain ourselves and thrive. Like when people summarize the civil rights movement, you know, not I'll be quick.
It was about competing, you know what I mean? And and thriving as a community sustain ourselves and that's just that's the reality, the competition and what we're doing.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. Uh Nara, if you want to add to the combo, then I'mma pass it to um back to Dr. Angela, then I gota pass it to Wall Street Willie.
Okay. No, you can go ahead to um Dr. Angela.
>> No, go ahead, Dr. Angela. Let me ask the Willie.
>> Peace. Thank you. Um, first I want to say that I this is my first time on your program, so thank you for having me. I come with no vitriol whatsoever. It's not my spirit. It's not my countenance.
It's not how I move with people. And so, because I identify as FBA, but also, you know, identify as a woman of African descent, I feel like I'm right there in the middle. So whatever energy you know you all conjure is not reciprocating the energy that I'm bringing to you. I come in peace. Um I think this is a healthy and needed debate and I don't think it's act new because back when we also have black nationalists and we have pan-Africanists and so this is not a new uh paradigm that we're going through.
But I wanted to just speak to a couple of things. I wanted to speak to the relationships because I think that we should be clear on individual relationships versus institutional relationships. I've been going to Africa since 2001, so that's 25 years now. And um I have deep relationships in several countries. I have bonus children that I take as sons and daughters, uh sisters and brothers and elders. And so I'm not speaking from someone that doesn't have extensive deep travel experience at all levels in several countries, east, west, central and south. So just to you know so that understanding is there. So I have good relationships with people on the continent, the Caribbean, sisters and brothers in Europe and here interpersonal relationships. What my um point is about the institutional relationships and I made an analogy uh to a mother and a child earlier and how and how institutions um treat the diaspora children of the diaspora how those governments those heads of states and it's cool if if the framework is transactional and if that's our baseline that's fine because th the ones with the most resources will win because Africa is a pay-to-play culture and show America, you know, to a certain extent, but we also have love in our families. You know, many of us probably had the Kool-Aid house where all the children on the street came to your house to play basketball and to get a sandwich and do the overnight. And so, there's the cultural social dynamic of it. And then there's the transactional uh like familiar culture of it. And then there's the transactional like I need citizenship. Okay. buy a house here in Fuma Town, 150K, we'll give you, you know, your work permit. So, if if that's the baseline and once we agree on that, no problem. Everybody understands. But the issue is the diaspora don't understand that. They're they're emotional and feel like, you know, some people feel like they have a right to return to the motherland. And when you get there for the first time, you're emotional. You put your foot on the soil, you know, you're weeping and crying and you feel the spirit of the ancestors. So it's an emotional connection. So I think you know understanding and really being clear about are we talking about individual relationships and the cultural dynamic or we talking about transacting >> you don't think that dynamic isn't >> let me finish white brother. Thank you.
Um and then I'll I'll land my plane. So I I just wanted to put that out there food for thought. But the question the topic is black America really part of the African diaspora? And this hasn't been brought up tonight. When you go to the African Union's definition of diaspora, it means brothers and sisters born in Africa that moved out of Africa and lived somewhere outside the continent. The historical diaspora, those of us foundational black Americans who of African descent who've been in this land, our families been in this land for hundreds of years are not today 2026 included in that definition of diaspora. So if we're asking is black America really part of the African diaspora, we need to consider who who are you asking the question who needs to recognize you as a diaspora? Because if it's the African Union and you were born here in America, the answer the short answer is no. If you're asking a brother and sister out of Jamaica or Trinidad or live in the UK, then maybe they'll say yeah. Or I'm asking the brothers and sisters here, they may say yes. So that's something um to think about um and to just know. Um, and then I wanted to also address the scholarship about Ivan Vanserma. And thank you, sister, for, you know, letting me know that his work had been debunked. I was first introduced to him at the University of Cincinnati um, in the engineering program and our u professor had us read that as a group of black or minority students in engineering so that we could find a sense of pride about our being.
And so I read that when I was like 18, 19 years old. And I know uh Baba Renoko Rashidi who I know personally also connected himself to the work of Dr. Ivan Vanserna. So I gave it credibility.
So I'm learning. I heard that his work was debunked but that's new information to me. So I you know I welcome your references and resources um to discredit him. But um lastly, I'll just say that in the spirit of Panaffricanism, we have to ask ourself about Brother Julius Mal Lima, who many think is the last pan-Africanist in Africa. Because if Panaffricanism is valued on the continent around the around the globe, then why is there not a voice or outcry for that brother who, you know, has stood 10 toes down on the cause of Panafricanness? It kind of sends a message to those of us who want to champion pan-Africanism like okay you out there by yourself if something happened you know what I mean who's going to uh come to your to your rescue and u Dynasty did a show on >> he did I have to go back and check it out uh but I I mean I like that brother um but at the end of the day I think uh you know we're this is needed because we're dealing with an identity crisis and we long have if we go with the legal standing of who we are we would to get our reparations we got to be we was negro on the roll or maybe mulatto but we've been colored afroamerican Africanamean you know some identify as black melanated moors you know now we got FBA [ __ ] and even the Gei and the maroons and so this it's interesting that this one term creates so much you know um discussion but I think it's healthy and that we can get to a space of moving together powerfully. Um, yeah. So, anyway, >> let me pass the uh Nara, if you wanted to add, you can.
Pastor Willie, >> how's my sound? How's my >> Dang, it's cracking.
>> Well, hold on. Talk now. Talk now. Talk now.
But put the mic down.
>> I'm put mic off. That's why. How is it now?
>> It's still cracking.
>> Okay.
>> All right. Uh uh, go ahead, Willie. I pass to Willie. I pass to Q Butter.
>> So, Peace Dus, I ain't been around in a while, man. It's good to be back. I'm glad to see my brother Q Butter here.
Um, I originally had a question for Nara about her views of FBA, but since the other sister made certain points, I'd rather, you know, direct those questions that way.
So when you look at your relations in the continent, you said you, you know, I feel like you have a global grasp.
I'm curious as to how you identify as FBA.
>> I think she's left the panel, sir.
>> No, no, she she's muted.
>> She said she used to be pan-African, though, so she like in the middle.
>> No, no. The other lady that he's referring to, he was wanting to speak to her.
>> No, no, no. I was speaking to the sister that just spoke. She still She said she used African.
>> She said she used to be in the UNIA when the show first started.
>> Oh, she left.
>> Yes.
>> So, I didn't want to I didn't want to ask her a bunch of questions and then she wasn't here to answer them.
>> I got you.
>> Go ahead, brother.
>> Yeah. I wanted to just kind of question her on the benefits of identifying with >> Do you hear me?
>> I hear you, Queen.
>> Yes, we hear you.
>> Yeah. just I I was a bit shocked with understanding having a grasp of your understanding of the world, your travels and whatnot and your identify identification with FBA cuz I always view them as very problematic.
And I and one of the major issues that I have is globally we've started to become defined by FBA. Right? If you're an American black, you're FBA. I don't identify with FBA at all because I've done the homework on what they stand on.
Right? I wrote two sisters sees, right?
I that's not my holiday, right? When they talk about the Tutanese language, a lot of this stuff for me is just ah historic. It's not valid. So, I'm just curious as to why you as a black American that does have an understanding of the world would identify with that group. And and I'm being honest that I'm framing that question from the standpoint that I don't they don't represent me. They're just a club to me. If anything, they tether off of my black history, right?
my pan-African my, you know, black American history.
So, I was just curious on why you identify with them.
>> Excellent question. Thank you, brother, for posing the question.
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Um, it's it's really simple for me. um when I heard the terminology why when I identify as black American um the you know before the term even came up and black American is even controversial in some spaces right the word black is controversial in some spaces black is a color is a racial construct so you know the reason why I identify with foundational black America it was based on my understanding of the definition and my understanding of the definition is that a foundational black American is someone who can trace their lineage back to the slave trade here in the US. And I personally am able to trace my lineage back to enslavement here in the US. And so that's why I identify as foundational black American. Um, and it's just as simple as that. But if it was a matter of me not liking someone's philosophy or ideology or methodology, then I probably would take on a whole new identity.
Because when I saw Al Sharpton up in there with the Ghanaian president, I mean, his his politics don't represent me at all, but he's also a black man.
So, I don't I didn't base my, you know, affiliation or my identification or acceptance of the term because of sharing somebody's total beliefs. I just base it on the definition of that I can trace my lineage black back to the enslavement here in the the US.
That's all full.
>> Now one of and that was a great answer.
One of the reasons I asked that question was because you know I get the aspect of want to identify and be separate from everything else. But even when you preface your comments, you were very careful in saying I'm not an antagonist.
I'm not, you know, coming to attack. And I'm only bringing that up because I think you would agree. You understand that that's how FBA is viewed because that's what they're known for. They're not necessarily known for their progress, their efforts, any type of legislation or unification, any of that, right? They're known for being trolls.
They're known for the term Tether. And so that for me is one of the reasons why I choose not to identify with that no matter how much from low country South Carolina I am, right? Not South Carolina, South Su, right? Like real true black Americans who can, as you pointed out, attach ourselves back years, 1800s, 1700s, right? So when I look at things like the amme church, I see my people already knowing who they were and defining themselves. I always view it as we delineated a long time ago. So I don't see a need for it now. I actually see it as counterproductive.
And you know that's a that's an argument I've had here. dinosaur tell you more than once because when when uh Africans, continental Africans hear that term, it becomes very tribal just like they are when we hear how much everybody hates the fani and the Igbo and the housing. I listen to my brothers from the continent fight those fights, but we seem to only get thrown in it from the aspect of being tribal as well. And one of the things that I think makes the even question of black Americans being a part of the diaspora totally invalid is because of what we were able to create here. It was always understood this is, you know, kind of the home of the diaspora to a certain degree and we always welcomed others that were trying to fight their fight and help us fight ours.
So for me, when I hear that, I'mma lay here because I know I went on for a minute. Thank you, Dinus, for not crashing on me. But I just I can't identify with that term cuz I don't see a need to. My ancestors identified themselves as black African-Americans decades, centuries ago. I don't see a need to reinvent the wheel, especially when this group >> um will that that was a lie.
African-American did not become widespread until 1980s when Jesse Jackson got his marching orders from the DNC to >> let's not no we're not going to tell lies here we're going to we're going to tell the truth >> but wait you cut me off I didn't say widespread and I'm interested in your opinion as well >> okay but it wasn't even it wasn't remotely widespread we we we going to speak let's tell >> let's be clear though no because there's a lot of the problem that goes on there's a lot of bad faith arguments and outright lies and slander. And if you want unity, hold on. You cannot have unity if you're going to tell me half truth or outright lies. Okay, I just made the point so we clear that floor did not become widespread until 1980s after Jesse Jackson popularized it. Not created, but >> I wouldn't even necessarily disagree with that. Right. But when you cut me off passport king so I wouldn't even necessarily disagree when you say kind of mass produced right but what I'm saying is the reality is my ancestors those that I look to as griots heroes in my life many of them were identifying as a they were literally defining what African-Amean was how Jesse Jackson wasn't even in his daddy's nut sack yet, right? His daddy wasn't even in puberty, right? And this was already a documented term that black people were defining. That's what I'm connected to, right? I I get your point about mass produced.
Same way FBA now is being mass- prodduced. But what I'm saying is the things that my ancestors did and how they define themselves, that was good enough for me. When you talk about that AM church and go all the way back to 1817, these are black people saying we are African Methodist Episcopal. Now, Methodist Episcopal may have been crazy, right?
>> [laughter] >> that may have been connecting ourselves with something goofy in itself, but there was that understanding that our foundation is African. And this is from ancestors who are closer to the original history than I am. Those ancestors I would have to learn from.
So, I'm not saying that everyone was calling themselves African-Amean, but it kind of became one of those things of once you learned about it, Yeah. It made sense. So I don't bang on Jesse for that.
Make sense?
>> Let me uh let me hold on. Passport King. Go ahead.
>> I want to hear his response though. Go ahead.
>> Can you guys hear me?
>> We gonna just fight through it. Go ahead.
>> No.
>> No. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> Is it fine? Um. H. Okay. There was a few points that I wanted to make, but I I do want to talk about the Ghana situation, particularly on the conversation about institutional relationships and individual relationships. Um, >> if it's if it's crazy, please let me know if my audio is not >> It's not I will not >> I'll let you know, Queen.
>> Um, I think it is really important again because I don't have a relationship with perfectionism. Um, because I don't come from a perfect culture. I don't come from an overly righteous culture where everybody has done everything correctly.
>> Um, and so, um, one of the things that I think is really important is to also know that there are black Americans in Ghana right now who are also displeased with the way that, um, the government is handling the citizenship situation at this particular time. Right? But I think that's what relationship building is.
Um, especially when you understand the history of Ghanawami and Kruma. um made a relationship with black Americans which helped him to gain independence in the country of Ghana. That's something to really make sure that we understand when people say what has pan-Africanism done for anybody. It got Ghana free for one.
>> Sis, can I ask you two questions real quick? I know. But let me finish really quick.
>> Yes, ma'am. Um because and the reason why I mentioned that is because when you look at Ghana's presidential history um and not to be a shameless plug but you can get that presidential history on my website a very brief history at breakdown of understanding how many coupetas happened in Ghana specifically which is very similar to what happened to like Thomas and Carr and these other African presidents that um many of our pioneers have always highlighted. It's important to understand that the West has always played a role in destabilizing these African nations shortly after they became independent because the colonizers never wanted these African nations to become independent.
>> Drop your link, sis. I want to see that info.
>> Uh, it's my it's my screen name, gel the diaspora.com.
>> That's my domain. Um, and so it's important to understand that these governments are not all the same. These presidents are not all the same. There are people still in Ghana who are um descendants of Kruma's ops.
>> Sorry.
Oh, okay. Um there are people who are descendants of the Koka family which was the name of the pre of the airport which has now recently been changed to a cry.
Like these are things that are that we are we have the privilege I think is a privilege to witness happen because I didn't get to witness the 50s and 60s. I didn't get to witness the 80s. I didn't get to witness the 1800s. Right? So, I personally find it a privilege to be able to see Africa in their individual countries go through this transition that we got to experience. Um, so I'm I'm very clear that there are things that we have to work through, but that's that's what I think relationship building is. It's we're we're we're going to have to come to those understandings and those agreements. And there's there's a variety there's a list of things that um I disagree with when it comes to Ghana. Um I don't have this again I don't have this uh utopia viewpoint of it. Um there you know and and something that I think is really important and not to be very controversial but the president of Ghana Nana Kufu Ado who started the year of return respectfully I learned from Ghanaians is actually a descendant of slave trading families.
So, I can't fault how these other administrations have to kind of clean up that behavior or some of the um rhetoric or some of the the uh disconnections that we saw during the year of return that many of us wanted because I I wrote a whole essay at my H.B.CU about year of return as soon as it happened. And I was completely against it because I knew that slavery and the transatlantic slave trade was not really told in a way that I think um was beneficial to Ghanaians at the point where Year of Return came.
I wrote about that because even the dungeons the when I go to the tour in the dungeons, I still think some of the story is a little distorted. I think that some of the story is not 100% honest. But again, [clears throat] >> this is a journey just like how all of our identities are a journey, right? And so I think it is really important to understand that like what Qutter was saying is that Ghana got independence in 1957. There are people in the country who are older than Ghana, which means that they remember when it was a whit man running things. They remember when it was a white tea British woman running things. And we kind I I think because we who are born now, >> we don't we we are just used to white te people running our country, right? But >> if you can for just two seconds think about being an 80year-old person in Ghana and the first 10 15 years of your life there was a white tea person running your country and now your country is what it is. Right. And there the the records show that the Ashanti there were people in the Ashanti who beg the British to not allow the independence right like so we we know that those dichotoies exist and those those dualities and things like that exist where there are ops within us right so I think that like that but again that's just not enough for me to delineate my identity delineate >> where'd you go to school sis >> like that sorry >> which HBU >> I Don't give them clout. Um, so [laughter] but I do want to make >> Don't do that to me. I I only asked cuz you brought it up. I was just curious.
>> No, I know. But I went to a PWI, I went to University of Ghana, and I went to an H.B.CU.
>> And I'll just say that. But, um, there was another point that I wanted to make, but I think I'm going to wait for you guys to finish your conversation. But yes, Dr. Angela, I really appreciate um your perspective and I think that it's really important um that we continue to have these conversations because a lot of what especially what you said the conversations that we're having today are not new. We know that these are the same similar conversations that De Boy was arguing Deboy was arguing back and forth with folks about, right? Frederick Douglas was arguing with folks about uh Marcus Garvey was arguing with folks about um and they were not perfect in the things that they were saying there.
We can say today that there we have there were loopholes in what they were saying, right? But then we can also say but there were benefits. There were things that we can still continue whether it's business ideologies. I think that sometimes with us as black Americans, we take um some of these ideologies as whole and then we stop and we don't expand them over time. We don't add on to them. Sometimes we just throw them away once we disagree with something. And I think that we have to always keep in mind that it might have been right for that time where racism was at that time. And as things progress, >> I think we as people at, our elders and we that are younger, we need to continue those conversations instead of trying to repeat the same thing over and over and over and then when it doesn't work for us anymore at this particular time, just throwing it away. And I think that's sometimes what we tend to do in our culture. We don't pass the baton enough and we sometimes just throw things away even though we could have just expanded.
So like the way that I saw Jesse Jackson pass, >> the way that people had the audacity who have not done anything close for the community or culture as what Jesse Jackson did to call him names.
>> People who can trace their history and their lineage back in this country to call him names to throw him away to do all these things. I just want us to love each other past our differences and our disagreements if we are going to be a part of a culture and community that we're all fighting for. keep cooking clean. Please, please come to my man Q butter platform. Like that's kind of home for me. But you have been cooking, sis. And and one question I had, I was curious when you decided to go to the University of Ghana, was that an independent thing or did you do that through your PWI?
>> Yeah. um San Francisco State, which is the first um Africana studies black studies degree program in the country.
At my school in Temple, we go back and forth about that, but San Francisco Africana studies black studies degree program. Um my mentor, professor was Dr. Oba Tashaka.
>> Um so you can look him up, >> look up his books. Um he is still alive.
Um, Theopile Oanga was also a chair of my department at a point in time. So, I come from a very long lineage of um, educators of black educators. Um, but yeah, I went to University of Ghana as a study abroad student for a year. So, I did two full semesters through SF State.
>> Sis, when I tell wifey, "Oh, Lord, I was just building with a sister from Temple." Oh, she's going to lose her mind. Cuz my wife went to Temple as well. And yeah, I know about their history in terms of certain studies. So, salute to you. I love it.
>> D, let me get two minutes. Man, he went to the uh you there. If you ain't, I'm going to take off.
>> He might have he might have stepped away for a second.
>> All right.
>> I want to reply to uh what Dr. S said when she was speaking uh two points. You brought up black nationalism and pan-Africanism when it pertains to FBA and that's my bag right there. FBA are not black nationalists. No FBAs are proponents of us having our our own nation. Most of them would tell you America is our nation. So black nationalism has absolutely nothing to do with FBA. Tariq Nashe will never talk about separation and that's what black nationalism is about. Furthermore, to be a black nationalist, you have to have some aspect of pan-Africanism. Because if we're going to be a nation, we not only have to be recognized by other nations as a nation, we have to have allies. And common sense going to tell you if you a black race, your other allies are going to be black nations.
Furthermore, we talked about this.
Brother no rebutt was almost finished. You can continue.
Finish your point.
>> A damn man. I know you got a lot of >> brother. Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> Look, when you spoke about the six region, we are included in the six region. If you go to au 6rg.org, it says in Ghana, I mean in the African Union.
>> Y'all can hear that.
>> Yep. The six region was an amendment to the original diaspora through article 30. Somebody got an echo.
>> July July 11th. Um 200 Let me see what year was that?
>> I think I think you got an echo.
>> I got a echo.
I'mma come off. You hear me now?
>> I can hear you, but I hear something in the background, too.
>> She don't have an echo.
>> Oh, maybe it's just your side. They said I don't have a echo. I I was I was getting ready to agree with you because uh the original DR uh Durban Declaration plan of action um that brought forth um the issues of racism, xenophobia, and the diaspora that was adopted by the African Union. When they uh settled on their definition of diaspora, it did not include historical diasporas. And later there was an amendment to the resolution called article 3Q and that's when the six region all that all the children outside of Africa were recognized as a six region. So I'm very familiar uh with that documentation. Um and to your point about black nationalism, I'm not saying that FBAs are black nationalists. I'm saying that black people in America have not always had the same ideology was my comparison. Some have thought about how we should nation build in one way and others thought how we should nation build.
>> I just wanted to make that point directly clear that they are not black national.
Hold on, hold on. No, no, no. Uhuh.
Before you go off a million miles.
>> No, no, no, no. Cuz you finish your point. I got to ask you something. Go ahead.
>> You You took a swipe at FBA and I want to call you out right now, but in a respectful way. Tell me what is the panfricaness as you understand it plan to have their nation within the United States or elsewhere in the planet. Go ahead. I'm going to be quiet now. Listen to you.
>> First of all, you need to understand ideologies. You would be asking what's the black national no dancing. I want to hear what is the plan. I'm answering your question, bro. Okay.
>> The the plan for us to get a nation was already laid down in 1968 by the Republic of New Africa. All we have to do to people that agree that we need a nation is actually build the infrastructure and [ __ ] separate.
That's what we got to do. That's what has been done. We have to build any cities or any communities that are self-sustaining. We don't have mass grocery stores, mass imports, mass exports, militias. That's what you have to have to have a nation.
>> Okay. and tell me how are these other allies, I'll use that term, in the diaspora, whether they're in the Caribbean or African, how are they helping us in the United States to achieve that?
>> You have to help yourself first. When they see us organized in mass, they will come and help us, brother.
>> So, we got Okay. Okay. Hold on. Stop.
Slow down. So, if we have to do it all on our own, what the hell do we need them for?
>> You're literally not listening. And I said, "We have to simple straightforward over there AND SAYING Y'ALL BE COMING OFF. If we're not organized, we're not going to get it done." Genius.
>> Cuz it sound like we It sound like what you said because in international law, it's something that is over your brain, brother. You have to be recognized by other nations.
>> Saying that we need to build it up first on our own and then >> it's going to be our nation. We have to build a genius.
>> Hold on. We have to build it up on our own and then these other groups get to come in and how are they going to contribute to it?
>> No, bro. That nobody said that, bro. We have our nation. Other nations have to recognize you as a nation, bro. You have to have four functions to be a nation.
You have to have population. We got population. You have to have government.
You got to have territory. You got to have sovereignty. Your sovereignty is independence recognized by other nations. Brother, I'm majoring in political science, bro. You don't know [ __ ] about none.
>> Okay. So basically you're saying then that okay so to have a nation you're also going to have a military right >> you have to have a military >> do you and the panicus plan on going into physical war with the United States government >> bro that goes without [ __ ] saying bro how else you going to get a nation bro how is this going to happen bro the first president of republic of new Africa was Robert Williams bro he waged protracted war against the United States the second president Mario Bidali was sentenced to 11 years for shootouts with the police, bro. Like this [ __ ] been happening. Black Liberation Army, black nationalist and pan-African Shakor, Republic of New Shout out with the cops, bro. What are you talking about? I'm hearing the [ __ ] FBA ever done.
>> Hey guys, let me read the super chats.
Uh Kevin D um 1987, thank you for holla.
Password King is watching y'all. Kevin D 1987, thank you for holla. Touring a slave legend is cringe to the max. Uh L Uro, thank you for $10 holla. If Africans are serious about pan-Africanism, why they never mention or talk about Brazil, most Africans from the trade from trade are there makes believe this is about money.
Let me also ask something else. Why is this need to only put this African moniker on blacks in the diaspora? I'm going to use that term in the United States of America who are descended from slaves and free men. Why don't y'all fight hard to put African in front of Jamaicans, in front of Haitians, Trinidadians, Bohemians, the Afro um peoples in Brazil? How come you don't fight to put the Africans in front of them?
>> No, I'm not being I'm not making a joke.
Question.
>> Okay. So, how come they don't identify?
Why don't they identify as African prerogative, bro? They have nations.
Jamaicans are Jamaicans nationality.
Hold on. You hold on. Stop now. You just said American paper citizens.
>> So they can choose not to identify as it. So if if if a large >> the same way you chose not to identify with it.
>> So if a large critical mass of US slavery descendants, free men, >> it's never going to happen. Y not a large mass. Y don't even got a million people that identify. collectively say in that this African-American term should have never been put on us.
It was a scop. It was a mistake and we reject it. So that by your words, we have a right to reject it as well.
>> We'll wait it out and see.
I think we're going to see within the next 10 years because the evidence is crystal clear >> what a scop this term has been and how insidious the agenda because like they say hindsight is 2020 when Jesse Jackson popularized that term in the 1980s we went with it because we thought yeah this is a good idea we didn't recognize the minations above and behind Jesse Jackson that was playing the long game and we see the effects today cuz let me let me say this real quick and I'm not trying to fill a bust or nothing. These same groups that you talk all this kumbaya panafricanist stuff with. Let me tell you about many of these Caribbean African immigrants.
They have not dozens. They have hundreds of organizations that promote only their people in their country. Black Americans, whether they go by Freemen, FBA, ADA, Sulon, we're not in those organizations. Those organizations, they get money from taxpayers. We get no parts of it. But when we get soal scholarships, they apply and they get it. Tell me, where's the pan-Africanism in that?
>> Cuz you don't control this nation, genius.
>> Hold on. Hold on. That's not nation.
Those are those immigrant groups in this country with organizations just for them. So you trying to tell me that it's an evil plot by the white man to separate us?
>> Where the bass come from, genius?
>> Am I making this up? Am I lying? Do I need to start pulling up organizations for you right now and put in the chat to show you how many organizations it come from just for black immigrants?
>> Brother, they come from the government, the white man, not us.
>> Oh, so there's Oh, so it's the white man doing it and these other groups, they really want to unify with us. That's what you're saying.
>> I think Can I Can I interject here, bro?
Like, real quick, >> please. Anyone? It's open. I'm I'm quiet now. I'm listening. I mean, like, I would suggest that black Americans in Ghana should create a group for black Americans in Ghana. You know, if you're in another country, it makes sense to connect with people who have similarities with you.
>> They already have that. There's a Caribbean association. There's an AfricanAmerican association, which has been professor >> transferred to African descendants of Ghana. There is an African diaspora research group of Ghana.
>> So, go ahead. Exactly. I mean like it it's just logical. So I think um and the hyperfocus on it is not necessary. The the degrees and I think that should be where the conversation is focused for with the the FBA conversation and the Panaffrican conversation in terms of explicit servicing. And if you're going to use the word delineation, contextualize it to the specific types of services that need to be directed towards a specific type of people. And it's just that easy. You know what I mean? and having the conversation is still going to be centered around education. You know, just the America is not closing the doors to people that's going to come here and make money for America. Black, Chinese, Indian, doesn't matter. So, it makes more sense for us.
>> NBA and ADOT is not even saying that we're not well some may, but the majority, we got no control over that.
All we're saying is, you know what, we need to recognize our specific lineage.
Just recognizing our lineage does not make us a hate group. Let me You know what? Let's think. Hold on. and forget if it's cool you can recogn it's just in the sense of it like what I what I get confused with like the potentuality for business >> uhhu >> and when we say tangibles >> like let that be the conversation you know what I'm saying like I don't like the brother right here just so he's a political science person he has his background in that >> okay let's talk what do you mean can you give me a little more um context I'm not I'm not being facitious I'm not being >> you're on a panel with tangibles right now and it's a matter of how you organize the tangibles to make sense of it like she's >> in. How is this tangibles right now?
>> Food, clothing, and shelter, brother.
>> For one, when you have a network that includes the access you have to resources and capital, that increases the access you have to different types of people. So, one, if you're on a panel with somebody who's a doctor, you know what I mean? to me the interest even even if there things that have made me you know like um contrary to what she might have had opinion to what she said my interest is still greater to the point of like she's a doctor what kind of network does she has the sister here is showing that she travels around the space she just told you she's partner she's the one of the students at the head of the of San Francisco State College like I don't know what you heard in that conversation in terms of like when you say networking that is the point of it like this is the first black studies program in California in America her. So if you are looking to work with a college and she tells you that like that's networking, right? And we should be organizing our minds around that. I don't attack like I have fun with the Panaffrican conversation and the FBA conversation. At the end of the day, it's like what are we actually doing?
Like the shortfalls in the community are the reality. We're not producing enough doctors in the black community. We're not producing enough engineers in the black community. Pick one. Pick Ghana, New Jersey, New York City, Georgia.
whichever one you want to pick. Cub brother, pause for I'm not trying to say your name wrong. Q brother, I hope I said it right. Pause for one second. I'm glad you mentioned that point about doctors and engineers cuz what you just said is a very important point. Know what I said earlier about how when black immigrants from the Caribbean and America come and they have organizations set up for them that's for their people only. And look, most FBA that's cool, but guess what? They're double dipping. So when you mention doctors and engineers like for instance they recently what almost two years ago now got rid of affirmative action in colleges but prior to that where they did have that and it wasn't just in colleges I think it also applied to medical schools and law schools guess what FBA adas let's just say US slavery descendants and free men who are black non-immigrant black Americans they would have to compete against black immigrants. It wasn't there wasn't anything that was specific for us.
>> No, there's no way you say this, bro.
That's gravely incorrect. The reason why it was set up was because white people did not want to allow black people to get contracts with the government. And so the government can't get contracts with the government.
>> That was the whole the original the original bill was centered on black people getting contracts. Jim Crow was the culture of keeping black people out through business as much as it was culturally. You got to set your business up over there. You can't compete with us over here. You can't take these type of clients. You can't like the idea of sustainability is tied to business and and it's tied to education. And so we separate those points in the sense of black people's pursuit for education in America. black people's pursuit for religious freedom in America has been centered around African studies and African centers. So when you're saying Africa and I'm like yo the African Epitheus Epitheus church like you have the African Methodist church the things are 200 years old 250 years old like what are we talking about like these things have been around the oldest schools you mentioned the African Methodist apostle church hold on the church Hold on hold on this is a very important question you're filibustering I want to >> I don't have any talk to you bro like I been speaking for a while I'm listening I'm trying I'm trying to build you can't listen while you enterain. I'm not just talking and talking. This is called a dialogue.
>> Listen while you I am listening and I'm trying to build. [clears throat] I'm just telling I don't even want to converse with you. Honestly, >> hold on. Did the AM church start in the United States of America or did it start in Africa?
>> It started in what? What are you talking about? You got the Philadelphia.
>> No. Where did it start? Did it start in United States of America or did it start in Africa?
>> It started in It started in Brazil.
>> Really? It started in Brazil.
>> What's the point? believe that.
>> No, bro. This is why the conversation with you is not for me relevant or anything that's going to go anywhere. I don't really want >> No, because see there's a lot of >> I'm just being honest. I don't want to disrespect. I rather not have it's not about being disrespectful. Here's my point and again for the delineation movement regardless of the term that people cuz there's different.
>> Hey, I got I got to read the super chat.
Uh, PCH rise 1559. Thank you for to holla. Our ancestors had to suffer uh filthy farms and plantations and now we suffer FBA in America celebrating it as ethnogenesis. Proud of they spraying from white folk and Indians. This is miserable here. Here's the problem and this is what delineation is about. It's been very one-sided and this is why pan-Africanism is also rejected by those who delineate whatever term they may use. No, it's a very one-sided and I look, I'm not trying to hurt people's feelings. It's one-sided and it's parasitic.
>> Okay, but basketball king, you said one-sided.
What is What do you What do you mean exactly?
>> Who is this guy?
>> It's easy. How? How? Okay. How has >> What makes your opinion?
Let's go. Let's talk as men. Why should we even listen to you? What do you bring to the table as a black man in America?
Why do you even have a voice? Let's peep it real. If this was basketball, if you can't dunk, shoot, you can't talk. This is boxing, you can't throw a jab, you can't get in the drink. Why should we listen to you?
>> Table talk.
>> You have to listen. You look >> why should you talk?
>> You can plug your ears and say, "Why should your opinion even be?"
>> The only thing you're doing is you're refusing to listen to another point.
>> I'm asking you why should I'm asking you to validate your opinion.
>> Intellectual dishonesty.
>> No, I'm being very honest with you. Why should your opinion matter?
>> Oh, why should my opinion matter? Okay, we Well, I'm in the United States of America and >> I don't know if you ever heard something called the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights. The very first amendment right is freedom of speech.
[laughter] >> You didn't have freedom of speech when they wrote genius.
>> And now you saying as a US citizen, I don't have the right to freedom of speech. Now, you don't have to listen.
>> That's your right. But I have freedom of speech. So are you trying to deny me my constitutional rights and above my constitutional rights for those that believe rights as a human being, my God-given rights to have my own mind?
Are you saying I don't have those rights?
>> I'm saying your rights is worthless.
>> It's either yes or no.
>> The display no tap dancing. It's either yes or no.
>> I know you got a wife.
>> It's worthless. I'm going be honest.
It's worthless. I I don't know what to do. It's valueless. There's no point in what you're saying. Let guy let guys we we'll do this. Uh hold on. Password key don't interrupt. Uh Q butter go ahead and I got to pass it to uh Nara and then we'll um I'mma close out but Nara is still live guys. So if Nara wants to stay on you know she >> when you close out let me get 45 seconds before you do.
>> Okay but go ahead butter better than N.
>> No block out stream bro. I was just listening to convos. Do son tap in dope build. I definitely tap into your channel and stuff like I got to institute programs. We just got recognized in multiple states. We on route to being accredited. Hopefully within this next week we'll have our candidates.
>> Cute butter. You got you got to come on and just in fact see I had to send I had the synagog on Friday or Saturday. Cute butter. When I get back you got to just come on and do a show and just tell tell everybody what you're doing.
>> What's getbody up up to speed who who might not know.
>> All right. Good looks. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. But definitely always trying to work, man. Just keep pushing the do. I see what you're doing, sir.
Definitely definitely supported. I love to either get you to speak to my students. I got mad females and just, you know, however do the doctor was on it earlier. I'm always looking for people to talk to my students and get involved and just push keep pushing the conversation. I even want I I showed my students your video once before Dinus. I you got to make another one so I can show them you traveling around and meeting with different people and stuff.
It's good for them to see us, you know, making taking advantage of the networking capabilities of the internet.
And I think that's the priority right now. network, you know, network capabilities and how we're pushing ourselves.
>> All right, let me let me pass the good King Justice 45 seconds and then NAR, then we'll close out.
>> All right. Uh yeah, uh good show until it wasn't, but it's all good. Uh peace to Q keep building, bro. I should have gave the 200. I gave the Umar to your ass. Uh and Dus, I I know you a business man. I love to shout out you, bro. But man, sometimes, bro, you got to watch who you bringing up here cuz these conversations just going to >> Well, I mean, you know the thing is like the panel's for everybody, man.
>> I feel that. But just get past King like five minutes every episode and then kick his mulatto ass off, bro. But yeah, peace, bro. Good show, man.
>> All right. Uh, Nara, go ahead.
>> Was he done? Okay. Um, well, yeah, shout out to everybody. Like I said, um my website, Brio the Diaspora, um it's a ongoing website. It's something that I edit all the time. Um yeah, I mean, I think the conversation was great. Um but, um I do want to just reiterate what I was saying earlier for people who um are coming in late and probably didn't hear some of the things that I said. You know, my biggest thing is that my racial and cultural self-esteem is not going to be shaped by the negative experiences that I have within and outside of my community. Um, I just how I accept that the culture um here in America is not perfect. In a lot of ways, it is toxic.
In a lot of ways, it is patriarchal. It is misogynistic.
Um, there's a lot of things that we need to be educated on. there's a lot of things that we need to do without. Um there's a lot of whiteness that we need to wash out of ourselves as well um in my personal opinion. Um and so like Vigilante said earlier, you know, I'm I'm all for goals. I'm all for supporting um actual businesses and programs um not too much of people. Um, and so when we talk about that, I think it's important to understand that especially what um, good king Justice said, I think that was his name about sovereignty and all these things.
There's so many things that we could be doing like supporting your black farmers in your state. Um, who, you know, we as black Americans only make up 1% of land ownership in this country. Um, so supporting those who do have land is a really important thing. That's one of the things that I do with Ghana. um creating those dot connecting um programs with farmers here, grocery store um owners here, farmers markets, black um farmers markets owners, with people who grow agriculture out in Ghana and in different African countries.
Those are ways that we can actually so show solidarity with each other when it comes to our health, when it comes to our culture that we're so proud of. You know, there's a lot of different ways that we can show love to each other instead of um forcing each other to identify as the same thing. So yeah, visit my website, subscribe to my channel. Thank you, Dus, for having me.
Oh, >> no problem everybody. Thank you so much for joining. Like, share, subscribe.
Until next time, family. Disuru. Peace.
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