The Christian Tendrils of But Daddy I Love Him | The Swiftie and The Scholar

Añadido: 2026-05-15

[00:00:05]Welcome to The Swifty and the Scholar, the podcast where we examine the lyrics, lore, and literary legacy of Taylor Swift. I am Angela McDow, the Swifty.

[00:00:14]>> And I am Dr. Jerry Coats, the Scholar.

[00:00:16]>> How you doing, Uncle Jerry?

[00:00:17]>> Um, you know, I'm doing really well today. Thank you.

[00:00:20]>> Good.

[00:00:21]>> Yeah, I know. I have lots of notes here.

[00:00:22]>> I know. I'm very excited.

[00:00:24]>> Yeah.

[00:00:24]>> I love this song. I apparently you do because she's already forewarned me that um if I if I don't like it, she's got other ways to defend it. So it's like, wow. Okay.

[00:00:35]>> I know. I think this is the first time aside from like All Too Well that I've come in being like here is how I feel.

[00:00:41]>> And I don't know. This song has really been a lot for me lately. Like in the past few weeks, I just like can't stop listening to it.

[00:00:48]>> I am wrapped with anticipation. But first, >> yes. Uh, one of the one of the people asked me if I had ever read this book, so I had to respond by saying, uh, let me think. Yes.

[00:01:02]>> Yeah, that was from the prophecy episode. Yes, the comments.

[00:01:04]>> Yeah. Yeah. Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norel. Um, this is my this is a copy I bought in uh the airport in at Heathrow in England. I know. Is that not appropriate? Um, when I was waiting for a plane, I thought I need to read something. And I had heard about this book and it several years ago. It's a big fat book. It is.

[00:01:23]>> So if you're going to do it, it's like over 800 pages, but it is well worth the read. Yes. I I think it's great.

[00:01:29]>> Okay. I'll link it for anybody.

[00:01:31]>> I'm just making an endorsement.

[00:01:34]>> Um I have a quick question for you.

[00:01:36]>> Okay.

[00:01:37]>> Like no spoilers, but who do you think Daddy is in this in this song?

[00:01:41]>> Oh. Uh it's written in 2024. I don't know. I'm not speculating. It's not my job. You're gonna tell me though, aren't you?

[00:01:50]>> We'll get into it.

[00:01:51]>> I cannot wait.

[00:01:53]>> Okay. Um, today we're doing But Daddy I Love Him. This is a super long song.

[00:02:00]>> It is. Yeah.

[00:02:01]>> Not 10 minutes, but >> it's almost six.

[00:02:03]>> Three pages. And I was going, "Wow, did you add an extra page?"

[00:02:07]>> Yeah. This is one of those I think they're calling them um one of Taylor's and Another thing songs, you know, cuz she's like, "And and then another thing and one more thing." you know, she just kind of keeps going. We got a third We got a third third verse. We've got a >> extra chorus. Like, there's a lot of stuff going on in here.

[00:02:25]>> Um, this is from the tortured poets department. This was written by Taylor and Aaron Destner, but produced by Taylor, Jack Antinoff, and Aaron Destner. Um, similar to Ivy.

[00:02:36]>> Okay.

[00:02:36]>> Um, and one of the folklore Betty, maybe one of the folklore love triangles.

[00:02:40]Anyway, um, that's kind of all I've got.

[00:02:44]I'm excited to hear what you have to say. That's not all you've got cuz you the rest of it is >> forewarned me.

[00:02:49]>> I know I've got plenty to say, but it's it's in here.

[00:02:52]>> Um, okay. So, you started off by asking me a question. Let me ask you a question.

[00:02:58]>> Um, I mean, I obviously got the illusion to Little Mermaid for the title.

[00:03:02]>> Mh.

[00:03:03]>> And um, did you know Little Mermaid was released in 1989?

[00:03:10]>> Nice. I didn't really really know that.

[00:03:12]Remember that. Do you think that she uses that because it's her birth year?

[00:03:17]>> Maybe.

[00:03:17]>> Ah, biographical criticism.

[00:03:19]>> Look at you. You're breaking your own rules.

[00:03:21]>> I know. My own rules. But but yes. Um, obviously the you know, but Daddy I love him is something that Ariel, which is generally a guy's name by the way. Um, yeah. I don't know. Um, Ariel is an angel's name. It's also in um oh Shakespeare's last play, The Tempest, 1610.

[00:03:45]>> Okay.

[00:03:46]>> Uh but but yeah, it's The Little Mermaid. Um and how how aware was I of that when this started? Well, of course um since my granddaughter was just in her middle school production of But that um but uh Little Mermaid and she played I don't know whether it's Flatsom or Jepson.

[00:04:07]>> Yeah. one of the eels.

[00:04:08]>> Yeah, one of the She was real good.

[00:04:13]>> Yeah, this is like weird timing. Like I didn't I didn't plan that, but yeah. Um >> you know, I mean, get the first first read through of this of this poem. Um not just Little Mermaid came to my mind, but a number of movies came to my mind.

[00:04:29]>> Same.

[00:04:29]>> Um you know, so I don't know if you have seen East of Eden.

[00:04:33]>> No.

[00:04:34]>> Or read the book. It's a book, people.

[00:04:38]Steinbeck. Um, >> oh yes, yes, yes. Okay.

[00:04:40]>> Yeah.

[00:04:40]>> Um, and it's it's about a girl who falls in love with a bad boy and um, you know, she's actually a kind of adopted daughter of his father, you know, and she finally comes around to saying, but she loves him. Um, you know, so I thought of East of Eden. I also thought of another James Dean movie. So when you ask me who do I think the guy is, I think it's James Dean. Um, Rebel Without a Cause, 1955, was a movie that was released about a month after James Dean died in a car wreck.

[00:05:12]>> Okay.

[00:05:13]>> And if you'd never seen Rebel Without a Cause, it's about a guy who um falls in love with Natalie Wood. And who wouldn't? Um, and you know, he's a bad guy and she doesn't want to love him, but she has to. Um, and then there's The Notebook.

[00:05:31]>> Mhm.

[00:05:32]>> Right. And if you've seen that, you know, we have Noah and Ally, and Noah is from literally the wrong side of the tracks, and um Ally is the rich guy's daughter. And I don't know, um, you know, I also thought of another Natalie Wood movie. Um, and now I can't remember the title, but um Oh, um, Daisy Clover, where she plays the poor girl, and >> it's the rich guy that she's pursuing.

[00:05:59]So, it's kind of >> gender flipped. Yeah, gender flipping.

[00:06:02]But um so what I'm going to say is that this is a common trope in romance storytelling.

[00:06:10]>> Um the guy or the girl from the wrong side of tracks who who falls in love with the rich guy or girl's daughter, son, you know, and and um it it does or doesn't work out. Generally does work out because we want it to, right? I mean, in a romance story, we want that to to work, >> right? So, >> Taylor always wants it too.

[00:06:31]>> Well, and so I I really did wonder in constructing this trope, um, did she have all these movies in mind, you know, does she have one or two of them in mind? You know, it's in it's literally in The Little Mermaid, it's in The Notebook, it's in East of Eden, and and all you have to do is turn on the Hallmark Channel and every third movie is it's going to be this story. is going to be um you know the the wrong girl or the wrong guy falling in love with the opposite. So >> yes, >> it seems to be a common trope. Um and then we start reading the poem itself.

[00:07:06]>> Yes.

[00:07:06]>> And it starts off with uh I forget how the west was one. Okay. This is an illusion, right? There is a movie people. How the west was one.

[00:07:20]It is, I think, one of the most interesting movies if you can ever go see it in the movie theater.

[00:07:25]>> Okay.

[00:07:26]>> Okay. Because it was f it was uh filmed in three lens uh curorama. So um 1962.

[00:07:33]>> Okay.

[00:07:34]>> And so it literally has three different cameras uh filming this this incredibly wide screen panorama. M.

[00:07:43]>> And so when they showed it in old movie theaters and I'm just here to admit that I saw it >> was going to ask.

[00:07:51]>> I felt like you were speaking from personal experience.

[00:07:54]>> I was. I saw it when it came out. Yeah.

[00:07:57]I went to the movie theater. Oh, I guess my parents took me when I was a little kid.

[00:08:02]>> I was going to say I feel like you would have been really young.

[00:08:05]>> Um but I remember the spectacle of it because it was just amazing. Uh the movie theater had to install additional screens.

[00:08:14]>> Oh.

[00:08:15]>> So when it was originally um screened, they it was intended to be shown on a kind of um you know curved screen, >> but a lot of movie theaters weren't equipped with that. So they showed it on three panled screens.

[00:08:29]>> Interesting.

[00:08:30]>> Yeah. So you could see and if you watch it today, you know, when it comes on television, if you watch it today, sometimes uh like in in a a war scene or an Indian chase scene or that kind of thing, you can still see the little lines where the different panels or where the the threelane three lens cinema cinematography was filmed.

[00:08:51]>> It's really like ahead of its time.

[00:08:52]>> Yeah, it was really cool.

[00:08:53]>> Yeah.

[00:08:54]>> Um so why am I spending time on this? It um first of all, everybody in Hollywood was in it. I mean, I couldn't I can't I can't begin to list the people who are in this movie. I mean, everybody. Um, >> and one of the reasons why it's interesting, I think it may be used here is because the central story focuses on uh the daughter of a highly religious man who falls in love with a frontiersman.

[00:09:23]>> Okay? And the frontiersman, although he admires the guy, who by the way is played by Jimmy Stewart, um although he admires the guy, he doesn't really he's not excited about his daughter marrying him or going off with him because uh he doesn't really trust him. He comes around to that trust in the end of the story. But I mean, I think that it works as an illusion here because it's about this love relationship that should not be. And on her side, the father is highly religious, >> right? So I think it works here. Okay, that was a lot on the first line. That's okay. Okay, so illusion. Um, and then the second line, I forget if this was ever fun.

[00:10:02]I just learned these people uh only raise you to cage you. Um, >> you got to like the rhyme raised cage.

[00:10:13]>> Um, I think that's kind of fun.

[00:10:15]>> Uh, so they build you up to breed you like an animal for display. Mhm.

[00:10:19]>> Um, which sounds a little Harry Potterish.

[00:10:23]>> Um, but also one of the things that I noticed is the repetition of the word I at the start of each sentence. I forget.

[00:10:29]I forget. I just, and then a little bit later on in the stanza, I just.

[00:10:33]>> Okay. So, we've covered this a little bit, but repetition of words at the at the start of lines is called an >> afro.

[00:10:40]>> Okay. And that should lead you to look at the end of the line. So you see how you only raise you to cage you and save you and hate you.

[00:10:50]>> Okay.

[00:10:51]>> All right. So we've got the same word ending the lines and that's epifera. So anafa epifera.

[00:10:58]>> Okay. I feel like we just had this in a different song.

[00:11:00]>> Yeah, we do. We exactly the same thing.

[00:11:02]Yeah.

[00:11:02]>> What I'm really interested in is that the fact that you have four I's starting sentences and four 's ending lines.

[00:11:11]>> Huh.

[00:11:12]>> Right. So you get this um separation, this balance contrasting between the I and the U.

[00:11:19]>> Interesting.

[00:11:20]>> Isn't that great? So yeah, I mean I I think it's I keep using the word fun.

[00:11:25]Someone called me on that.

[00:11:26]>> I know they did. They were like, "What?

[00:11:28]Y'all keep talking about how fun this is, >> but that's that is a real thing."

[00:11:32]Somebody else asked, this is a c like a side bar, but um somebody else asked like how like you say you love the sad ones and like you love to listen to the sad ones, but how does it not make you sad? And I'm like, well, I don't know.

[00:11:46]It just like I think it's it's like a connection. It's like I feel like seen in it, you know, like because we've all felt certain feelings, you know, and it just like makes you feel validated. So, it doesn't ever make me sad.

[00:11:59]>> That's the classic question. Why do we listen to the blues to feel better?

[00:12:03]>> Yeah. Yeah. And so I was just like, I don't know how. She was like, do you have any like tips for how to do that?

[00:12:08]And I'm like, no, I think that's just like how I was created, I guess. I don't know.

[00:12:13]>> Well, and I know the person who wrote in about the word fun was was having fun with me, but um I you know, honestly, I think it is fun when I see when I see a literary device employed in a meaningful way. It delights me.

[00:12:27]>> Yeah. Yeah. Because this is art, >> right? It's art. Like it might be a sad story, but like it's good art. So it's >> that's that's what's so fun to me. I mean, it literally sometimes when I noticed the I I IU you you um I thought, "Oh, that's so clever." I mean, it literally kind of chuckled out loud because I thought that's so clever because she's setting up this this there is a desperate space between the two of us, right? We're being pulled apart, but but like a rubber band, we're always going to snap back together, >> you know? And so I thought it was it was very clever the way that she kind of built this first stanza.

[00:13:03]>> Yeah, that's interesting.

[00:13:04]>> But we're not done with it yet.

[00:13:06]>> No.

[00:13:07]>> Um she says uh to cage only raise you to cage you. Well, to cage you is a metaphor, >> right? To capture your spirit to keep you enclosed in this space that I've built for you that we call your childhood and adolescence. Uh-huh.

[00:13:23]>> Um, and then we get to Sarah's and Hannah's in their Sunday best, clutching their pearls, sighing, what a mess.

[00:13:32]>> And so I like the rhyme between best and mess.

[00:13:35]>> Um I, you know, s Sarah's and Hannah's are obviously um references to biblical women.

[00:13:42]>> Yeah.

[00:13:42]>> Um, churchgoing ladies.

[00:13:44]>> Churchgo ladies wearing their pearls in their Sunday outfit. Um, you know, and you you do have to remember that the Sunday clothes may may not entirely represent what lies within, right? That the um it may just be a veneer, an exterior.

[00:14:04]>> You might say vipers dressed in impath's clothing.

[00:14:07]>> Yes, that's where we're going to go.

[00:14:11]Um, I also thought of a fun poem by EE Cummings when I read through the Sarah and Hannah's.

[00:14:17]>> Okay. Um, it's called Cambridge Ladies and the first line is something like Cambridge ladies who live in furnished souls.

[00:14:25]Yeah, I love that line because it's like interesting. Yeah, they live in their nice little houses and they live in their furnished souls. So, every piece of furniture is something that the pastor has said is just right.

[00:14:37]>> You know, one of the other ladies is self-affirming. Yes, that's that's a godly choice.

[00:14:42]>> Um, and I just I think that's kind of fun. Yeah.

[00:14:45]>> So, yeah, if you don't know E Cummings, Cambridge Ladies, it's a fun poem. They um you know, they wind up, we see them um stitching up clothing for is it the Polish children? You know, they literally ask the question, >> oh, like they're like, "We're we're doing this for some people, but I'm not sure who."

[00:15:01]>> Something, but yeah. Um so, I just learned these people try and save you cuz they hate you.

[00:15:11]Oh, and now you want to say something?

[00:15:13]Well, I was just going to say I just love this whole verse. Like I think like I feel like this is this is a song that I just like instantly saw the movie playing out which maybe plays into what you're talking about. It's a common trope, you know, but I saw like Taylor Taylor in that Taylor's life in that story.

[00:15:31]>> Like I could instantly see what she was talking about. Like I I forget how the West was one. Like to me that's her talking about like I I won the West. I forgot I forget how I be got got this famous where people have all these opinions, right? I don't even I don't even remember if this was ever fun because it's certainly not fun now because all of these women and all of these people are like you have to be exactly what you were when you were introduced to us >> at 16 years old, you know, and the caging is like reminiscent of um you know who's afraid of little me? She says like >> you cage me and then you call me crazy.

[00:16:07]you know, you're making me like be this certain thing. You're only I'm only allowed to be in this little box, you know, and then if she's putting it into like this like small town >> churchy metaphor to me.

[00:16:19]>> Yeah. I mean, that's where we are, right? Her she lives in this religious family in a religious community in this small town caged environment, a closed sphere.

[00:16:28]>> Yeah. It feels very relatable.

[00:16:29]>> Yeah. Yeah. Um and I do love the way that she says, "I forget. I forget." You know, it's, you know, there are certain things about our childhood and our adolescence that we just we we never learned to question because we were little kids.

[00:16:44]>> Exactly.

[00:16:45]>> Right. And and this is just the way it is. This is your furnished soul. Right.

[00:16:50]That's which is why I thought of that poem because, you know, we're handing it over to you in mass whole, already built for you.

[00:16:58]>> Here's your life. Here's what it's going to be.

[00:17:00]>> Now you go off and live it.

[00:17:01]>> It is written, >> right? Oh, that's great. it is written right.

[00:17:06]>> Um, okay. Okay. So, I have to go back one more time and um I mean when I when I read Sarah's and Hannah's I thought okay yeah biblical characters she's you know she's living in this constricted space it but I really like on on my eighth read I thought well wait why Sarah and Hannah why not um Deborah and Naomi you know why not other female characters from the Old Testament.

[00:17:32]>> Okay. And so I began thinking about them and I wrote a couple of my little notes.

[00:17:37]>> Okay.

[00:17:38]>> Um I do these are obviously both illusions.

[00:17:40]>> Uhu.

[00:17:41]>> Um and I began realizing, oh that's right. These two women have um a number of elements in common.

[00:17:48]>> Okay.

[00:17:49]>> Okay. Sarah's the wife of Abraham >> who she is the mother of Isaac. Uh she is competitive with Abraham's consort um Hagar who has Ishmael.

[00:18:01]>> Uhhuh.

[00:18:01]>> Okay. So, Ishmael becomes the um the father of the of the Muslim religion. Uh Ishmael Muhammad is um supposed to be a child related to Ishmael. Um you know, so Sarah's highly competitive with this woman and wants a child of her own. She becomes very old and um an angel comes to her and says, "All right, we'll give you a child." And she laughs out loud, which becomes in Hebrew the name of the child. Her name means princess or mother of nations. Um, and she is she essentially is going to offer this child up as the leader of what would become the Hebrews. Um, >> oh, okay.

[00:18:46]>> So, Hannah >> Uhhuh.

[00:18:47]>> is in 1 Samuel. Hannah is um married to this old man. She becomes very old.

[00:18:55]She's competitive with his other wife.

[00:18:59]>> Okay. uh she is barren. She's never had a child. She prays about having this child and finally her prayer is answered when she promises to give the child up to the temple and that's when she gives birth to Samuel.

[00:19:13]>> Okay.

[00:19:14]>> Okay. So, why these two in particular?

[00:19:17]>> Yeah.

[00:19:17]>> Well, I I mean they're both women. I mean, if you're going to do a feminist reading here, >> right? Um, we've got women couched in a particular role and they're both the same role.

[00:19:30]>> Interesting.

[00:19:31]>> We've got women who are yearning all their lives to fulfill this one role.

[00:19:36]Mother, right? I'm I am no one if I don't have a child. I'm not a mother.

[00:19:42]>> And that's like so many women from our small towns.

[00:19:46]>> That's right. That's right. Yeah. I I really think that these are are terrific choices. If if you're gonna if you're going to pull illusions out of the Bible, you know, I mean, would you do Ruth and Naomi?

[00:19:59]>> It's like totally different. Yeah.

[00:20:00]>> Right. It would it give a totally different uh elusive meaning, a totally different, if you will, you know, metaphorical vibe. Um these are womens who um were seen as desirable sex objects. As a matter of fact, Sarah is given away twice by Abraham. okay, >> in making bargains with other kings and they have to give her up when someone when God essentially says, "Hey, by the way, she's married." And they all go, "Whoa, wait a minute." You know, um, so she I mean, they're women who are seen as sexual objects. There are women who are seen who are validated only in their roles as mothers and are validated only by their ability to reproduce.

[00:20:43]>> Oh my god. Okay, this is like blowing my mind a little bit.

[00:20:46]>> Right. So, if I'm a if I'm a feminist reader, I am, you know, I'm going to say these are well chosen to represent that that furnished soul persona that I think everyone expected our narrator here to fulfill. The eye in this poem, the eye in this poem should marry a nice boy and have babies, >> right?

[00:21:07]>> Yeah.

[00:21:08]>> You know, and that's it. She would be the conduit for the next generation or she would create the next priest.

[00:21:14]>> Uhhuh.

[00:21:14]>> Right. Um, you know, both of those work really well. One had the generational father and one had the priestly adviser.

[00:21:22]Um, either one of those would go well in this tiny town.

[00:21:25]>> Yeah.

[00:21:26]>> Right. So, I I really think that they're the chosen point of >> just blew my mind wide open.

[00:21:31]>> Oh, I'm so glad.

[00:21:32]>> I just assumed I was like, "Oh, these are names from the Bible and they're also like common millennial woman names." And so that's why she chose them, >> right? is as deep as I got.

[00:21:41]>> And because they're only validated by their body and their ability to reproduce.

[00:21:44]>> That's crazy.

[00:21:46]>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think that um a lot of women look for validation in other ways.

[00:21:52]Clearly the narrator of this story.

[00:21:54]>> Yeah. And then that's like as a person who got married at the um you know super young age of 37 um it's like very relatable to me, you know.

[00:22:05]>> Oh yeah. I mean you had you had other things too. one of my best friends, one of a a former department chair of fine arts I worked with um you know a scholar whom I highly respected um I mean she wasn't married in her mid-4s you know she just her her parents worried about it she talked about how she used to you know meet with friends and friends would say so when is it going to happen to you so are you thinking about having a baby anyway and so it's like how how many times do you have to say this is not how I validate my Yeah, this is just not what I'm doing right now.

[00:22:39]>> Right. Right.

[00:22:41]>> I'll let you know though.

[00:22:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. If if you really need to be that person and then maybe you can call your cousin.

[00:22:48]>> Yeah. I know. I know.

[00:22:52]>> And >> they all just picked up on that.

[00:22:54]>> Every single person knows what you're doing.

[00:22:56]>> Okay.

[00:22:59]>> Okay. So yes, I had to go back and talk about the the really nice choice of um illusion for both Sarah and Hannah and and how they are, you know, foil characters. They reflect on one another, >> right? Because they serve the same role, that same purpose.

[00:23:15]>> Um okay, the pre chorus.

[00:23:17]>> Yes.

[00:23:17]>> Uh too high a horse. Um you know, to ride your high horse or to be on a high horse is actually a 19th century Victorian um saying. It obviously means to be self-righteous, to be superior, arrogant >> for a simple girl. Um, and I think that she's being a little ironic with the word simple.

[00:23:37]>> For sure.

[00:23:38]>> Yeah.

[00:23:38]>> Um, it's also going to take a drink of my tea now. Ambiguous, >> right? Simple could mean ordinary. Um, but simple can also mean foolish or stupid, >> right? Okay. Um, I think she means ordinary, but I think that the people in the town are just as happy if girls are stupid.

[00:24:01]>> Just a little dumb. Yeah.

[00:24:02]>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because you know what their role is, just to >> Yeah.

[00:24:06]>> get married, pop out the baby, move the next generation along.

[00:24:09]>> Be quiet. Don't have thoughts.

[00:24:10]>> That's right.

[00:24:11]>> Don't speak them aloud.

[00:24:12]>> Yeah. Don't do that. And whatever happens, you know, get off the high horse.

[00:24:19]Um it's it's too simple too much for a simple girl to rise above it. They slammed the door. Really nice word choice slammed on my whole world. Um the one thing I wanted. Okay. I think I like the last the choice of the last line because the one thing I wanted um this is like a teen, you know, like I'm so focused on him. Yes. This is the one thing I want. um you know, don't worry honey, you're going to want something else later.

[00:24:49]>> Yeah. Which is just the same as like Love Story, you know, in that in that she has a line where she says um what does she say? It's like he was everything to me or you were every It's just like that hyperbole of like >> right >> my life is over if I don't get to be with this one boy.

[00:25:05]>> Yeah. And I think what she's doing is exploring the character of the narrator, >> right? So I think she is being hyperbolic. So again, you know, we have another literary device here, hyperbole.

[00:25:16]>> Um, so, you know, it's nice to run round up the precourse that way.

[00:25:22]>> Yeah. I love too high a horse for a simple girl to rise above it.

[00:25:25]>> Like I just think that's such a fun way to be like, y'all's expectations are insane. the expectations of the world of in this you know in this um narrative in this small town the expectations you have for women like there's no way anybody can ever live up to that >> right yeah it is fun is when you put oh fun maybe we'll have to start taking a drink every time I say fun um I go I'm going to go back to the top of the verse one and point out the rhythmic pattern of I forget get how the west was one. I forget if this was ever fun. I just learned these people only raise you. Um, yeah. So, it's it's very rhythmical. Yeah. Bump bump. So, what you've got is you've got >> a mixture of troies and dactyls or troies and anipests depending on how you how you scan it. So, for those of you who forgot, >> I know I feel like we talk about troies and dacts a lot. I know it's something with stressed and unstressed, but I don't know exactly what.

[00:26:31]>> Yeah, it's a stressed syllable. A troy is a stressed syllable followed by an unstressed syllable. So my name Jerry >> Oh, as a troy >> is a troy. Yes. You wouldn't say it as an I am. And I am inverses that pattern with an unstressed stress syllable.

[00:26:46]Right. No one says >> jere.

[00:26:49]>> Jere kind of fun though.

[00:26:53]>> Yeah. So yours is angela, right?

[00:26:57]>> It's dactillic.

[00:26:59]>> Stress.

[00:27:00]>> Stressed. Unstressed. Unstressed. Okay.

[00:27:02]Yeah. No one would stress the middle syllable. Angela, >> except for me, maybe.

[00:27:06]>> Yeah, you probably would.

[00:27:08]>> Or Angela.

[00:27:09]>> Yeah.

[00:27:10]>> Yeah. So, um, yeah, stress patterns um create the music of language. And so, I don't know how this is going to sound when we play it, but I'm I am kind of interested.

[00:27:22]>> It's just such a fun like Yeah, >> I don't want to spoil it, but the way that it builds and we go running around, it's just like so fun.

[00:27:31]>> We do have a um an eraser tour performance to watch of this.

[00:27:36]>> Oh boy.

[00:27:39]So, for those of you who are just listening to us and not watching us, Angela began swaying and popping her head back and forth. I just like can't like this makes you like when I I was just listening to it on the way here to prepare and like it makes someone drive really fast, you know, like I want to start breaking rules.

[00:27:55]>> Is that right? Is that how you like prepare? You you psych up by listening to the song.

[00:28:00]>> I don't have that advantage.

[00:28:02]>> Sorry.

[00:28:02]>> Yeah. Maybe >> you're just reading your books.

[00:28:04]>> I know. I'm I'm read I'm reading books or looking at Cummings poetry and that kind of thing. Um okay, back to the scanning the Yes. So if you look at the pre chorus, >> to high a horse for a simple girl to rise above it, they So it's right. So yeah, we're still we're still working that that rhythmic power. It's not a consistent rhythm. Like I tried to scan it consistently. You can't u but still I'm thinking it's it's going to sing well because of the rhythmic pattern.

[00:28:36]>> Yeah.

[00:28:37]>> So uh chorus.

[00:28:40]>> Yes.

[00:28:41]Now I'm running with my dress unbuttoned.

[00:28:47]Sorry, he paused to laugh.

[00:28:51]Um, it's unbuttoned. She's brazen. She's embarrassing. She is eliciting a loose image. She doesn't care, you know. Yeah.

[00:29:01]>> Um, especially because of the next couple of lines.

[00:29:04]>> Yes.

[00:29:06]Um, so I think that's metaphorical screaming, "But daddy, I love him." So I can just hear Ariel talking to the king of the underworld.

[00:29:15]>> Um, and then she says, "I'm having his baby."

[00:29:19]Well, shades of Hunger Games.

[00:29:22]>> Oh my gosh. Yeah.

[00:29:23]>> Yeah. The two of you are pregnant.

[00:29:25]>> The baby.

[00:29:25]>> Yeah. The baby. You Well, then we can't have the 75th quarter quell.

[00:29:30]>> Yeah. What did you What was your first thought when you saw that? My very >> Did it make you like stop and go what?

[00:29:37]>> Yeah, I did. I thought, "Oh, this is a teenager trying to say the most startling thing she can to her mom or dad." In this case, dad since we're addressing, but daddy, I love it.

[00:29:46]>> Um, and I really did think of of Hunger Games.

[00:29:51]>> Um, yes, I've read all those novels, too. But I've told that story.

[00:29:56]>> Yes, for sure. Yeah, that she your one of your colleagues told you to read it.

[00:30:00]>> Yeah, she told me. and she said that I'll enjoy it if I can tap into my inner 14-year-old girl.

[00:30:04]>> I think we talked about that on the first episode cuz I'm like we've got to or one of the first. I'm like you got to put your your teen girl hat on for some of these.

[00:30:10]>> Apparently I have an inner 14year-old girl.

[00:30:13]>> You do. You do. We all do.

[00:30:14]>> Yeah. Okay. Um Okay. So, what another first thought is I I began thinking, wait, is this just the movie Foot Loose?

[00:30:25]>> That's that's what I always picture is Foot Loose. Like there you're not allowed to dance. you know, you're getting in trouble cuz you're dancing, you know.

[00:30:32]>> See, that's what I started thinking is, oh, wait, is is Ariel um actually Lorie Singer? You know, is is this Kevin Bacon Ren? Is the Reverend Moore John Lithgal?

[00:30:46]>> Yeah.

[00:30:46]>> Yeah. So, I really did think of the movie.

[00:30:50]>> That's where I my brain always has gone is straight to like a movie like that.

[00:30:54]like an 80s 90s movie, you know, like >> it is such a common trope. I mean, you ought to be able if you really think about it or again, watch the Hallmark channel, you you will find almost any number of movies that follow this this sort of plotline.

[00:31:09]>> Uh so yeah, she she cries out, I'm having his baby, and then it's almost like she breaks that fourth wall, right, in in a movie when when they turn to you and say, >> look straight at the camera.

[00:31:21]>> Look straight at the camera. Um or it's like in Dear Reader, >> uh >> right the not just her poem but also the 18th century novel Dear you know dear reader I know what you're thinking here you know so she says no I'm not but you should see their faces you know again we do have to remember that >> she's a teen um I'm telling them to floor it through the fences which is nice alliteration right the FF Um, that also feels it obviously metaphorical.

[00:31:56]>> Yes.

[00:31:56]>> Right. So, there's a metaphor for burst through any obstacles. And I have to admit because we've been doing this, I thought of getaway cars.

[00:32:04]>> Oh, same. Because it's a car again.

[00:32:05]Yeah.

[00:32:06]>> Right. Yeah. Again, >> there's always cars.

[00:32:08]>> Somebody needs to do something with those cars.

[00:32:12]Um, so no, I'm not coming to my senses.

[00:32:16]I know he's crazy, but he's the one I want. Okay. So you have to go back through and look at the anafa the use of the word I'm I'm running. I'm having.

[00:32:27]No, I'm not. I'm telling. No, I'm not.

[00:32:30]>> Okay.

[00:32:31]>> So again, like a teen narrative. She's very self-focused.

[00:32:34]>> You know, that's it's okay. It's what we would expect of teens. And don't forget to look at the end rhyme with uh faces, fences, senses. Uh I think those are really nice rhymes. And you notice that faces and fences you know, have different initial vowels, >> but they're both alliterative and the ces are, you know, not only um sound rhyme, but also sight rhyme.

[00:33:02]>> Right. Right.

[00:33:02]>> Right. So, in in many ways, I think that's a terrific rhyme. So, I do want to point out when she has a really good rhyme.

[00:33:09]>> Yeah.

[00:33:11]>> Okay. Page one down >> of seven.

[00:33:15]>> Yeah.

[00:33:17]First two.

[00:33:18]>> Yes. Um, beautiful daughter. All my plans were laid. Um, so now who's the speaker?

[00:33:25]>> Um, she still is.

[00:33:27]>> Is she still?

[00:33:29]>> Um, yeah. It felt like when the first couple of times I read it felt like it was the the dad.

[00:33:33]>> Oh, she Oh, okay. Okay.

[00:33:36]>> Yeah. Saying, "Oh, beautiful daughter, you know."

[00:33:38]>> Yeah. I mean, all all four of those, >> right?

[00:33:42]>> I tucked those tendrils into your woven braid. Um, you know, but growing up precociously sometimes means you're not growing up at all. So, he's accusing her of not growing up. But then I'm reading it like she's the narrator and saying, "He tried to turn me into a beautiful daughter.

[00:34:00]>> He tried to make all my plans."

[00:34:02]>> That's right. He tried to tuck those tendrils tendrils in, but I was always precocious and I, you know, I didn't grow up the way that he wanted me to.

[00:34:11]>> So, which is it?

[00:34:13]It's ambiguous.

[00:34:18]>> I've never thought of it as like being from the dad, but that totally could be.

[00:34:23]And then the second half of the verse would be >> right. Well, >> well, I guess it could the whole thing could be.

[00:34:30]>> Yeah. I mean, I think that it's more when we when we get to bedroom eyes like a remedy. Um >> Yeah. I mean, that feels very >> Yeah, that feels like a hurt. Um I do think in those first four lines what interested me was the embedded double on tandra with the word laid you know so laid could mean um the plans were set but ruined.

[00:34:51]>> Um or my plans were I mean she got laid.

[00:34:55]>> Oh my god.

[00:34:56]>> Right. Cuz she has sex and she claims to have a baby which she turns to us and says no I'm not. But >> you should see their faces.

[00:35:04]>> No I'm not.

[00:35:06]>> Um yeah. So she's she's playing with double meanings. So I wondered if she was playing with double narrators.

[00:35:12]>> Interesting. Yeah, that's really fun insight.

[00:35:14]>> I think it is fun that that she is is writing it so that you could read it both ways.

[00:35:20]>> Yeah. And uh I kept going back and forth and back and forth trying to make up my mind and I still don't know. I kind of so I always obviously I was only always only reading it from like this was Taylor talking but it almost it could be Taylor talking about like Taylor paring the words that were always said to her by her parents.

[00:35:43]>> Yeah, that's kind of where in my own head I went. I kept thinking, well, is this the narrator, you know, speaking the words that she supposes her dad would say?

[00:35:53]>> Right. Yeah.

[00:35:54]>> Right. And you know, I I like that interpretation. So now we have a third way of looking at the narrative.

[00:36:02]>> Look at us go.

[00:36:03]>> I know. So is it him? Is it her? Is it >> him? His words through her like through her voice.

[00:36:10]>> Yeah.

[00:36:11]>> Interesting.

[00:36:11]>> I think it works all three ways. I do kind of like the last interpretation where it's in her head. She's parodying his his words, his advice, his lifelong goals for her.

[00:36:23]>> Right. Okay.

[00:36:24]>> I love tendrils tucked into a woven braid.

[00:36:28]>> Yeah. You know, uh I I always do. You know how I look for that one word or that one line? This is one of those lines that I think is is really >> It just says so much to me. Like my I've always I've always been this picture perfect. Everything is in its place. My hair is >> put back like a like an innocent little girl's braid and like everything is just as it's supposed to be.

[00:36:51]>> Yeah. And those um those holy tendrils, those things, you know what, you know, interestingly enough, religion itself, I it, you know, comes from a word, you know, liio means to bind, right? It's where we get ligament.

[00:37:10]>> Okay. Okay. Oh, wow.

[00:37:13]>> It's your Latin lesson for the day. Me, too.

[00:37:15]>> I know. So, it isn't like a tendril um to allow religion to bind you up. Um you know, I mean, I grew up I was raised in the Salvation Army and and in order to be a member, you have to swear never to drink alcohol. And it's it's it's a funny thing. I mean, yes, I do occasionally drink alcohol, but um I still when I see people doing it, it's like I go, "Oo, is that bad?"

[00:37:39]>> Okay. Yes. That Okay. Yes.

[00:37:41]>> Because those tendrils that that religio just always they're bound and they're in there. Yeah, that's what that's kind of what I think this whole thing is. Like I think this whole I think this whole song was inspired by Taylor's real life of people, you know, telling her what she needed to do and how she should live her life because we all have opinions on that.

[00:38:01]>> And and as a young girl, she was, you know, she first started her career, her parents were like very in charge of her image and the things that she was allowed to do cuz she was a teenager and, you know, they didn't want her to get taken advantage of. So, it makes sense, >> right?

[00:38:16]>> Um, but it's like everything just had to be exactly. She's said before, you know, I always just thought I had to be the good girl. I always just wanted to be good. And whatever that meant, you know, what she was taught that that meant, I just wanted to be that. And I think in her 30s, she's still trying to >> get rid of those, >> right, >> tendrils, you know, where it's like, no, actually, I am allowed to just like be a grown-up woman and like make the decisions I want to make. That doesn't make me less good of a person. Um, >> and I don't have to pop out a baby just cuz my fans are waiting for it.

[00:38:50]>> Yeah. And it's I don't know. It's just like it just blows my mind because this this this whole song just blows my mind.

[00:38:57]>> I also think that I I feel like I don't even want to say this yet, but I think that this whole song is her talking to us. I think we are daddy.

[00:39:09]>> I wondered. So now you're jumping to the end here.

[00:39:12]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:13]>> Yeah. I wondered the same thing. I really did. Um, you know, fans and and I think this is just as lively in 2026 as it was in 2024. Um, you know, as soon as we hear that Travis Kelce and she are engaged, um, you know what kept popping up on my news feed is when are they going to have a baby? What are they going to name the baby? And and it's like, Lord, people, am I am I Sarah? Am I Hannah? Is that is that my total value to you? I'm supposed to now produce progeny, >> right?

[00:39:46]>> So, and and what is it going to be? If it's a if it's a >> if it's a guy, does he become a singer and a girl? Maybe a tight end.

[00:39:54]>> Sure.

[00:39:56]>> Yeah. I mean, it's so it was funny to me when I read this through several times.

[00:40:01]I had that exact same thought.

[00:40:02]>> Yeah. I I'll never forget. It was so funny to me the the week this song came out. Chase and I were driving somewhere and this song was on and he was I could tell he was like really, you know, like taking it in. And he asked something like, "Who is this? Who's she singing to here?" And I was like, "Well, I think she's singing to us." And he stopped for a second. He goes, "We're daddy." And I was like, "Yeah, I think we are daddy. I think all the people um who have opinions on what she does with her life and you know ride her off for specific choices that she makes like certain boys she dates whatever >> right >> you know she's saying like I get to be who I want to be.

[00:40:42]>> Yeah. You know and I like that you mentioned earlier that um controlling her image is something that she has uh gradually come to. And I I mean I don't know that much about it, but I know you have you what from what you have told me.

[00:40:55]>> Um you know I really did think of Eminem again, you know, because you know he's got he's got the name his mother and father gave him. He's got the name that he chose. He's got another name that the record company tried to give him. It's like people, you know, how many times do I get to be pushed around before I get to decide what kind of artist I want to be?

[00:41:15]>> Yeah.

[00:41:16]>> Yeah.

[00:41:16]>> Yeah. So >> um Okay. Okay. Should we go back to the song or are we done today?

[00:41:20]>> No. Yeah. Sorry. I just have a lot of fun.

[00:41:22]>> No, I I agree completely. I I went there myself. It took me a few readings.

[00:41:27]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:29]>> Um Okay. So, yeah. It says um he was chaos. He was realry. So, chaos sounds bad. Uncontrolled. Revalry or as the British say, Realry. Oh, >> do they really?

[00:41:43]>> Well, it's it's a number of poems really. It's it's a kind of archaic pronunciation. Um it that actually has a positive connotation, right? To revel in something is is to be more playful. And then he has bedroom eyes like a remedy.

[00:41:57]Well, okay. So that's a simile, >> right? So he is a tonic. He is a cure for um for that culture in in which she developed.

[00:42:07]>> Yeah. Like he's chaotic, but all of her tendrils are tucked right in where they're supposed to be.

[00:42:12]>> Yeah. Well, and and meeting him, drinking him in, you know, provides that remedy for those tendrils. It helps to begin to dissolve them.

[00:42:22]>> Um, and then he says, she says soon enough, the elders had convened down at the city hall. Oh, no.

[00:42:30]you know, so I I don't know. You maybe I think of movies too much, but I remembered when um if you ever seen Pleasantville, which is a really fun Toby Magguire movie.

[00:42:41]>> Um you know, when he begins to introduce new ideas, when he begins to cut those tendrils loose, um they not only have a meeting in the city hall, but all the men get together in a bowling alley. And there's this great line when things start going wrong. The mayor says, "Thank God we're in a bowling alley." Oh my gosh.

[00:43:01]>> It's like the bastion of manhood that we are here.

[00:43:04]>> Only boys allow.

[00:43:06]>> That's right. So yes, it's it's a terrific scene. It's it's a cliche a little bit of a cliched scene where elders get together. The use of the word elder also reminded me of a book it's a biblical illusion, >> right? The elders get together. Um, I thought about u an apocryphal chapter of the book of Daniel when the elders, you know, get together over Susanna and they they view Susanna nude. She's running unbuttoned.

[00:43:35]>> Okay.

[00:43:35]>> Yes. And they just can't control their lust for her. The elders get together.

[00:43:40]Um, and then we get to the precourse.

[00:43:42]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:43:44]>> Uh, stay away from her. So, I think this is voiced by the father, by the elders.

[00:43:50]Um, >> all the saboturs, >> all the saboturs, people who want to sabotage her relationship, uh, protested too much. Um, obviously from Hamlet, act three, uh, this is Gertude reacting to the queen in the play. Uh, the play is the thing we're in to catch the conscious of the king. So, in Hamlet, if you haven't read or seen it, um Hamlet puts on this play um to to try to catch who the murderer of his father was. And he has the actors act out the way his father was murdered.

[00:44:22]>> And Queen Gertude reacts to it and says, you know, I think that she's protesting too much. Which implies there must be a level of guilt here.

[00:44:32]>> Okay. The Lady Doth protests too much.

[00:44:35]>> That's right. Yeah. So I think the sabaturers who protest too much, the elders who protest too much, there is a level of duplicity in them.

[00:44:42]>> Interesting, >> right? There's a level of dishonesty in them. Um, so another illusion, uh, Lord knows. I love that irony. Lord knows the words we never heard. Just screeching tires and true love. So the lovers didn't care what the elders or the dead or the sabaturs had to say.

[00:45:04]They're just in the car and they're tearing out. Yeah.

[00:45:07]>> Or as Cartman says, >> we're out of here.

[00:45:11]>> Cartman.

[00:45:13]>> Could be. It could be Cartman.

[00:45:16]>> Yeah. The the they're screeching the tires through the because he's flooring it through the fences. Yeah.

[00:45:22]>> So, I think that, you know, the sound of the screeching tires, metaphorical. Um, Lord knows use of satire. Um, I think humor. I think there's a level of humor in this song.

[00:45:32]>> I think it's hilarious. Yeah.

[00:45:34]>> I mean, I'm having his baby. No, I'm not. But you should see your faces. Like insane.

[00:45:39]>> Yes.

[00:45:39]>> There's actually like really funny compilations of people like music reactors that were reacting to this. So, they're hearing it for the first time >> and hearing her say that and everybody's faces are like exactly the same. She's like, "I'm having this baby." And they're all like, >> and then she's like, "No, I'm not." And they're all like, "Die." Like, it's just so funny.

[00:45:59]>> Well, you should see your face.

[00:46:01]>> Yes. Exactly. Their faces did exactly what she knew they were going to do.

[00:46:04]Yeah.

[00:46:06]>> Okay. Post chorus in the longest song ever.

[00:46:09]>> Yes. Yeah. Cuz the chorus is exactly the same.

[00:46:12]>> I know, right? Um so yeah, we've got the chorus. She's still running with that unbuttoned dress, screaming. Um you know, she does say that I'm not coming to my senses. I know he's crazy, but he's the one I want.

[00:46:27]She wants crazy. Yeah, >> I don't know if it's because she wants him or because she just wants to cut those tendrils loose, get the heck out of there, and you know, and make an obscene gesture toward the elders.

[00:46:41]>> Okay, two things on that.

[00:46:43]>> Um, >> are you going to tell me who it is?

[00:46:45]>> Well, okay. So, yes, I think I will cuz this song, um, I what I think is when you're saying like you don't know if she just wants crazy because that's not that's the opposite of what she has.

[00:46:58]That's kind of exactly what I think it is. Um, this was this song we think was written after she um ended her six-year long relationship and then she went back to this Matty Healey from 10 years ago.

[00:47:12]And he is a controversial man.

[00:47:17]>> I'm going to have to remember these names. Maddie Healey.

[00:47:19]>> Yeah. Remember a grown name grown man named Maddie. We don't love it.

[00:47:23]>> What?

[00:47:24]>> Um, he's controversial. He's said a lot of um weird controversial things, but then he swears and his fans swear it's just performance art. I don't know. I think he is a mess of a man. But I also think that she was in this six-year long relationship. She thought that was going to be it forever, but then she was so like bored and like dragged down by it.

[00:47:48]It she she lost the color from her face.

[00:47:51]She turned gray. This is what we learned about in So Long London. Mhm.

[00:47:54]>> And then she goes to this other man and he's so controversial that everyone is like, "You are a good girl. You're supposed to be good and you told us you were good. So why would you align yourself with this man?"

[00:48:08]>> And but I think part of it is just like she's like, "I need the opposite of whatever just happened to me, you know?"

[00:48:15]>> Yes. I just want to jump in the car and hear the tire scream.

[00:48:18]>> Yeah.

[00:48:19]>> Yeah.

[00:48:19]>> Yeah. So, it's like this was like she it's almost like she had to do that to like break out of she had to like teach herself that it's okay to like break out of these break away from these like tendrils of religion or the tendrils of how she was raised that like a girl has to be this certain one thing, you know, >> right? Yeah. She has to be a Hannah. She has to be a Sarah.

[00:48:41]>> Yeah.

[00:48:42]>> You know, the heck I do.

[00:48:43]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:44]>> Yeah.

[00:48:45]>> Um Okay. So maybe the biographical criticism is important at this point.

[00:48:49]>> I kind of feel like it is for this one.

[00:48:51]>> I see. I would agree.

[00:48:55]>> I just I just think it's such a fun metaphor and maybe because it kind of mirrors how I grew up, you know, and it's like the you know what we've already said, the small town kind of conservativeleaning. There's there's just you know you you graduate from high school, you marry your high school sweetheart, you have babies in your 20s.

[00:49:14]like you, you know, it's you're your your prophecy is written.

[00:49:18]>> Mhm.

[00:49:19]>> And some of us don't want that prophecy.

[00:49:21]>> I like that. Back to prophecy.

[00:49:23]>> Okay.

[00:49:24]>> Yeah.

[00:49:26]>> Yeah. Uh that and that's the song.

[00:49:30]Oh, we have to do the rest.

[00:49:31]>> We haven't even gotten to the good stuff yet.

[00:49:33]>> I know. Um pressing ahead to the post chorus.

[00:49:36]>> Yes.

[00:49:38]>> I'll tell you something right now. I'd rather burn my whole life down than listen to one more second of all this bitching and moaning. I'll tell you something about my good name. It's mine alone to disgrace. I don't cater to all those vipers dressed in empathy's clothing.

[00:49:53]>> That is an angry >> so angry >> angry post chorus.

[00:49:57]>> So angry.

[00:49:58]>> That's why I read it that way. I'm I'm kind of anxious to hear how she sings it, but um yeah, I know how I read it.

[00:50:05]Um this is the daughter talking. Yes.

[00:50:09]within the context of our narrative. But this is Taylor Swift.

[00:50:13]>> Yeah.

[00:50:14]>> That it's just pure Taylor Swift talking to her fans, her critics, her vipers, you know, anyone out there who wants to give her advice on how to live her life.

[00:50:24]And I think the vipers dressed in Impath's clothing like that is because most of the um most of the the heat that she was getting, most of the the you know cancelling of herself that she was getting was coming from her supposed fans like people that say they like her and say that her >> empathic to her plight. You know, listen dear, let me just give you some advice.

[00:50:50]>> Yeah. Like this isn't good for you. It's not. And like I I didn't love that she was dating him, but mostly because I was like a home girl deserves better.

[00:50:59]>> I never posted anything about it, you know? It was just like But I I also understood why she did it. Like I understood why she went indirectly into that relationship because it made sense to me.

[00:51:09]>> Yeah. I was happily ignorant, but now I'm angry about it.

[00:51:12]>> Yeah.

[00:51:15]>> Yeah. So that's just Sorry. Go ahead.

[00:51:16]Yeah.

[00:51:17]>> No, I was just going to say um so you know what I thought it was again. I'm hoping to impress you.

[00:51:23]>> Okay.

[00:51:23]>> Cassandra, they filled my cell with snakes.

[00:51:28]>> Absolutely.

[00:51:29]>> Right. And you remember in the first stanza, she is um uh caged.

[00:51:37]>> Mhm.

[00:51:38]>> Right. She's in a cage.

[00:51:39]>> Oh, yeah. Her cell. Yeah.

[00:51:40]>> Yeah. And so they filled her cell with snakes.

[00:51:42]>> Oh, wow. That's nice.

[00:51:43]>> So all these people vipers dressed in empaths clothing. Clothing. Um, you know, we can't forget to do the poetics.

[00:51:51]I rather burn my whole life down. That's some metaphorical phrasing.

[00:51:56]>> Uh, you can't really burn a life. Yeah.

[00:51:57]So, you do it metaphorically. Um, bitching and moaning is uh almost barereft of other than the fact it has alliteration in it. Um, pretty pretty bereff of um >> Yeah, she's just telling it like exactly how it is.

[00:52:12]>> Yeah, she has.

[00:52:12]>> There's no poetry.

[00:52:13]>> It's at this point that Yeah, that whole veil of poetics has just dropped away.

[00:52:18]She's like, "Y'all are annoying, >> right?" And let me tell you something about my good name, you know. And again, there I I see very few poetics here. I don't see although it is an apheristic, right? The I I >> so many eyes.

[00:52:32]>> Yeah. But now she's speaking out of her own voice, right? So the anafa I think is something we have to notice and we have to analyze. Wait, is she speaking out of the character? Is she speaking out of her own voice?

[00:52:41]>> Okay, that's interesting.

[00:52:42]>> Yeah. Literally, it's pro it's supposed to be both. Uh figuratively it's supposed to be both, but literally it's her.

[00:52:48]>> It's just this is this is Taylor sneaking her way in again like she did in >> Yeah.

[00:52:52]>> in Betty.

[00:52:53]>> Uh the bridge. God saved the most judgmental creeps. Okay. So the the word creeps um you it's asinance. It rhymes with me and C and beat. Creep. Me see beat nice rhyme. But um as a word choice, creep is it's a harsh word. It starts with a a harsh sound, the the k sound in the c, the p sound at the end of the word. Uh it's a wellchosen word. Um and again, we have irony. The way she keeps invoking God, you know, Lord knows.

[00:53:28]>> I just love it.

[00:53:29]>> God saved, right? So, you know, it's like people have been preaching to her all her life and she's done with the preaching. Um so God saved those people.

[00:53:42]Um who say they want what's best for me.

[00:53:45]Want what's best. Okay. W's W's. Nice aliterative. Yeah. Feeling.

[00:53:50]>> Um sanctimoniously performing saliloquiz I'll never see. So you know echoes of Hamlet with saliloquiz because we've already heard one Hamlet quote but also sanctimoniously performing saliloquiz is a great phrase.

[00:54:05]>> So good. Right.

[00:54:06]>> Yes. This is one of my faves in >> Why is this phrase in a in a pop song, you know?

[00:54:12]>> Yes, it it really does feel good. It's great to say I do read these poems out loud, you know, because there's no other way to hear the sonic qualities. So when I hit sanctimoniously performing saliloquiz, yeah, all the S's and the be and the L's and the fact that it it sounds beautiful, but she is describing something she really finds creepy.

[00:54:40]>> Yeah, it's horrible, but it sounds pretty.

[00:54:42]>> But it sounds pretty. Yeah, I think it's more of that verbal irony.

[00:54:46]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:54:47]>> Yeah. Um, this line I think is another that's directly tied to her real life.

[00:54:54]Um, this same this same guy that I'm talking that this whole situation that we're talking about. It was when um during the Arrows tour when Speak Now Taylor's version was about to come out, some some fans, I don't know who they were or why they were, but they literally put out a an open letter to Taylor.

[00:55:13]>> Oh, nice. Yeah. telling telling her that or that they are speaking up now because it was like when Speak Now was about to come out.

[00:55:21]>> Telling her like how horrible it is that she's dating this man and this is not what she needs to do. Like this was this like literally happened.

[00:55:30]>> Wow. Okay. Yeah, >> I have it I have it pulled up here. I'll put it on the screen. But it's like this man is controversial and he says racist things and makes offensive jokes and you have the right to make your own choices.

[00:55:43]But we believe that you need to, you know, take a stand against discrimination. You need to hold them themselves and their associates accountable.

[00:55:52]>> Yeah. When you read the line, you have the right to make your own choices. You just stop there. But yes, I do and shut the laptop.

[00:55:59]>> Yeah. So, like, who knows if this exact thing if she saw it, but I mean, I'm sure there was just a ton of that at that time. I know there was. Um, and so it's just like and it's she's saying that I'll never see like Yeah, y'all you're just talking you're you're saying all of this in like a and even if we take the metaphor of like you know the church women in the small town like you're saying all of this in like a performative way like you don't really care. You don't care what I do.

[00:56:26]You just want to be able to like judge me and like be on your high horse and like feel better.

[00:56:31]>> You're so passionate about this.

[00:56:32]>> Sorry.

[00:56:34]>> I think it's great. It's why we love music or literature.

[00:56:37]>> Exactly.

[00:56:38]>> I mean I mean how passionate am I when I get going about I know. Um, yeah, I did.

[00:56:45]I got that, you know, this is one of those moments where I see, you know, kind of concretely and I just imagine a thousand households across dozens of countries where her fans are going, "Oh, she shouldn't be with this guy." And, you know, they're making their they're making their speeches and she's not there to hear and none of the rest of us are.

[00:57:05]>> Yeah. or you're saying it like to your Facebook friends, you know, or like to your to your to your 200 Instagram followers, you know, like it's just like silly >> like just this is an adult woman who's allowed to do whatever she wants and you don't get to control. It's her name that she if she wants to disgrace it, she's allowed.

[00:57:22]>> She's, you know, that's why I say you just close your laptop after you say you can make your own choices. You say, "Ah, thank you." And >> yeah, exactly. And then even even when she started dating Travis, um, one of those it was like a a playoff game a couple of seasons ago where he he got really into like he got really like angry and he like kind of pushed himself into Andy Reid. Do you remember that? Oh yeah.

[00:57:48]>> On the sidelines he was like yelling in his face and he kind of chest >> bumped. That never happens on a football field.

[00:57:53]>> And then all of a sudden everybody turns that into like Taylor can't date this man. No, >> he's ter clearly a terrible man or >> or she was the cause of it. I think that being >> right.

[00:58:04]>> Yeah.

[00:58:05]>> And a difficult love relationship probably led him to to blow up on the field.

[00:58:09]>> Yeah. And this like as as the Taylor Swift like as the Swifty in all of my areas of my life.

[00:58:17]>> She is the Swifty.

[00:58:18]>> People, you know, at work and stuff like come up to me and they're like, "Did you see that? That was pretty bad. Taylor can't." And I'm like, "I don't I do not want you in my family business. So, please stop talking to me about Taylor.

[00:58:30]Um, because people just have opinions and like they just, you know, they're just always wanting to spout them out wherever they wherever they can.

[00:58:38]>> So, I have to tell you that last week um at church uh >> Oh, don't know.

[00:58:45]>> A very well-meaning member of my Sunday school class came up and asked me, "So, do you think that they're going to have a child right away?" And I'm I went, "Who?" Like, who are you talking about?

[00:58:58]>> Taylor and Travis. And I said, >> "Oh my gosh, >> I'm not the Swifty. I'm the scholar."

[00:59:04]>> That is so funny.

[00:59:05]>> I know. But she thought like maybe I had inside information.

[00:59:08]>> Yeah. Like we chat with her every week when we do these.

[00:59:11]>> Yeah. Well, oh, has she not been talking to you?

[00:59:13]>> Oh my gosh. Are you chatting with Taylor?

[00:59:15]>> Well, I mean, I can't say, but >> Oh gosh. Okay.

[00:59:22]>> That's hilarious. This is the eternal song.

[00:59:25]>> Sorry.

[00:59:26]>> That's okay. It's fine. It really is long. Okay. But it's good.

[00:59:31]>> Yes.

[00:59:31]>> Thinking it can change the beat. And now I'm hearing Hairspray. Um the beat of my heart when he touches me and counteract the chemistry and undo the destiny. You ain't got to pray for me. Me and my wild boy and all of his wild joy. And again, it kind of goes back to the connects for me to the word revalry.

[00:59:54]>> Exactly. Yes.

[00:59:55]>> Right. So that that has a positive uh connotation. So wild joy and I think that reaffirms it.

[01:00:02]>> And then she says, "If all you want is gray for me," and she's talking right to her readers >> or I'm sorry, right to her fans, critics, vipers.

[01:00:12]>> Yeah.

[01:00:12]>> Um if all you want for me is gray for me, then it's just white noise and it's just my choice. Um yeah, you know, we can talk about the metaphors, the metaphorical use of chemistry, >> um or connect destiny to reading those tarot cards. Um or >> um the praying to, you know, the phrase the consistent religious imagery or wording like Lord knows, God save um you know, you got to pray.

[01:00:43]>> But the message here is pretty clear and direct. It's very like this is like she's literally just calling people out straight to their faces.

[01:00:51]>> Well, and it's funny too because in my notes I I kind of stopped making a lot of notes because I I mean I saw the metaphors and and the internal rhyme and the um wild boy, wild joy, the rhyme, the repetition >> linked.

[01:01:06]>> Uh all of which are nice poetics, but but for me what was most powerful is the message.

[01:01:12]>> Yes. Yeah.

[01:01:13]>> Okay, we're done with the bridge.

[01:01:14]>> Yes. Except I do have to say one thing.

[01:01:16]>> Please do.

[01:01:17]>> Um I this is like the first song with lyrics that aren't sad. So I really want to get some sort of Taylor lyrics tattoo. But all the lyrics I like the best are like super sad lyrics. And I don't want like I don't need like you kept me like a secret. I kept you like an oath on my like on my arm somewhere, you know? That's not like a good tattoo.

[01:01:40]>> You don't want to wake up and look at it every day.

[01:01:42]>> Yeah. Exactly. Um, but no line has ever described a member of my family more than my wild boy and all this wild joy and that is my dog Luke. And >> I thought she was going to say >> someone else.

[01:02:01]>> I know that's why I said it that way cuz I knew you were going to think about Chase, but I want a picture of his face.

[01:02:07]Luke's face. I'll put a picture up on the screen with my wild boy and all this wild joy.

[01:02:13]>> Oh. Oh, that's >> I don't know that I'll ever do it, but I really want it.

[01:02:18]>> You can get the little face of the dog tattooed underneath it or >> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:22]>> Okay. I still think it should be Chase, but I don't know. Chase does listen to these, right?

[01:02:28]>> Yeah. Well, >> we have tattoo. We We got soup dumpling tattoos.

[01:02:32]>> No. Okay.

[01:02:33]>> See, >> that's great.

[01:02:34]>> Me and Chase, cuz we like soup dumplings in New York City. So, we got soup soup dumpling tattoos in New York City.

[01:02:39]>> Where I thought you were going.

[01:02:42]I'm going back to this poem. Verse three.

[01:02:45]>> I think this time I'm the one that's had some sleep instead of you.

[01:02:50]>> There's a lot of people in town that I bestow upon my fake smiles.

[01:02:57]Um, so yeah, she has to go through town and she has to just grin and say, uh, you know, I hear your advice and you're an idiot. Leave me alone. Uh, scandal does funny things to pride, but brings lovers close. Uh, it's kind of like in the movies where no one wants them to dance together, but those Foot Loose kids, you can't stop dancing. You can't stop the beat.

[01:03:23]>> Uh, we came back when the heat died down. Uh, went to my parents and they came around and the wine moms are still holding out, but >> she got angry again. She got angry again. Um, fam, it's over. Uh, so I have to pause. I mean, lots of stuff here poetically, heat died down. Um, >> that's a cliche, but um, also kind of metaphorical language. Um, >> she uses wine moms and wine can be spelled two different ways.

[01:03:58]>> Oh, yeah.

[01:03:58]>> Right. So they're they're they sit at home drinking their wine like the Cambridge ladies, you know, knitting socks for the Polish kids or whatever.

[01:04:07]And um but also whine like they're whining. Yeah. They're complaining moms.

[01:04:12]They're they're dissatisfied with their own lives. What else do they have to do but complain about our >> talk about somebody else's?

[01:04:19]>> Yes. Um I'm going to move right on to the chorus.

[01:04:22]>> Okay.

[01:04:24]Now I'm dancing in my dress in the sun and even my daddy just loves him. I'm his lady and oh my god. So we have another, you know, we're pulling God in again. Uh you should see their faces.

[01:04:36]And again, we go back to the faces. Um that looked shocked when she said, um I'm I'm having his baby.

[01:04:44]We also are using the dress now as a metaphor.

[01:04:47]>> Right. So >> you know what that is?

[01:04:49]>> What is that?

[01:04:49]>> Dancing in my dress in the sun. That's another of your >> Oh, she's dancing in light.

[01:04:54]>> Yeah.

[01:04:54]>> Yes, you're right. Oh, that's great. I had gone by that and and forgot.

[01:04:59]>> Yeah.

[01:05:00]>> Oh, that's great. That's dancing by the refrigerator light or dancing in the lightning.

[01:05:03]>> And the lightning strikes. Yeah.

[01:05:05]>> Yeah. Oh, she loves dancing in the light.

[01:05:06]>> She does.

[01:05:07]>> This is a joyful scene for her.

[01:05:10]>> So, yes, her parents have come around.

[01:05:12]She's out there having fun. And then she says, "Oh, time. Doesn't it give some perspective?" So, she's personifying time. Um, and no, you can't come to the wedding.

[01:05:25]So, it's like, I'm glad you all see it my way now. You know, I'm glad you've had time to work it out. Yeah. So, that you're okay with my life.

[01:05:34]>> Yeah. You got some perspective on the choices that I'm making for myself.

[01:05:37]>> That's right. And thank you. You're not coming to the wedding. I know it's crazy, but he's the one I want. She said earlier she wants crazy. She acknowledges again. I know it's crazy, but you know, a little revalry. Um, a wild boy is something that she wants at this point.

[01:05:57]>> Um, I'm I'm rolling downhill now.

[01:05:59]>> Yeah, let's do it.

[01:06:00]>> Uh, post chorus. I'll tell you something right now.

[01:06:04]Again, nearly devoid of poetics. Um, you ain't got to pray for me. Oh, we're back to praying again. So again, if you're counting, that's five direct religious references.

[01:06:16]>> Uh me and my wild boy and all of his wild joy. He was chaos. He was rivalry.

[01:06:21]>> Um so now we're directly linking the realry with wild joy. If all you want is gray for me, then it's just white noise.

[01:06:29]And it's my choice.

[01:06:31]Pointedly chooses to end the stanza on my choice. And then she is out with screaming, "Daddy, I love him. I'm having his baby." No, I'm not. But you see their faces. But oh my god, that's number six. You should see their faces.

[01:06:47]He was chaos. He was realry. You notice the was uh shifts the tense to past tense. And I felt like um the oh my god, you should see their faces. He was chaos. He was realry is almost like a prayer. You know, this is I think closer. She's moving away from the irony, the satire that she's been using up to now. And um it's more of a prayer, you know, for her future.

[01:07:17]>> Yeah.

[01:07:18]>> That's the end of our song. Themes. Um I wrote down rebellious freedom, reckless joy and passion. Uh disregarding public opinion, disregarding uh the judgment of society. Um and I wrote down defying a good girl image, which you brought up earlier. Yeah.

[01:07:36]>> Yeah. She's like, "I don't have to live by your rules." Yeah.

[01:07:39]>> So, she's moving on and creating her own.

[01:07:44]>> Anything else you'd like to say about this song?

[01:07:46]>> Um, a little bit. I kind of want to talk about two different um opinions on the muses of this song. So, there's a lot of conversation and I I think I fall on one side more than the other, but maybe not.

[01:08:02]Maybe I'm convincing myself. But, so there's a theor there's a theory. We'll say two theories. So theory one is that this was written this song was written before she knew that the the relationship with Maddie was going to be over >> and she was just writing herself a happy ending as we know she does she loves to change.

[01:08:26]>> Yeah. Romeo and Juliet get together.

[01:08:28]>> Uhhuh. Yeah. Like you know Oilia doesn't >> she doesn't die >> doesn't end up on the fate of Oilia. you know, we know she likes to change endings to be happier. And so I'm wondering if she was writing her herself a happy ending for that and saying all these people are going to come around like they are going to like back off, stay out of it, and let me just like live my life that I want to live.

[01:08:50]>> I I thought and I do have to admit it was almost unsatisfactory for me as a reader. Um you know, just saying um now I'm dancing in the sun and daddy loves him. It just felt almost gratuitous.

[01:09:02]>> Yes. Another thought that I I have subscribed to up until like literally today is that we literally switch muses after verse three.

[01:09:16]>> So in verse three when she changes, she says, "All the wine moms are still holding out, but it's over." And that's I think the end of one relationship. And then she finds then months later she finds Travis.

[01:09:33]>> Oh, this is the entry of Travis.

[01:09:35]>> Yeah.

[01:09:36]>> Oh, I'm liking that.

[01:09:37]>> Okay. So, then she meets Travis and now all of a sudden everyone is back on Taylor's side.

[01:09:42]>> Oh, >> they became like this like, you know, this like America's sweethearts like the our royal family type thing, you know, like they became like such a huge big deal that everyone was loving. And so I'm thinking like after verse three and then we go into now I'm dancing in the dressing dancing in my dress in the sun and my daddy just loves him and I'm his lady. That just kind of to me flips the whole thing and is like I'm talking about a different person now, >> right?

[01:10:12]>> And this is a different situation and y'all all got perspective on me as a human being just giving me a little time to like work through what I needed to work through. But I don't know. I'm still I'm still I'm not set on either one of those.

[01:10:26]>> I do find that interesting. Um I I mean it goes against my new criticism brain very much.

[01:10:33]>> Yeah.

[01:10:33]>> Yeah.

[01:10:34]>> Because it's it's it's not in the text directly. Although we do have the shift to past tense >> for the last line, you know, that that one is over.

[01:10:43]>> Yeah.

[01:10:44]>> Um which would seem to >> add a little validation to that. Yeah.

[01:10:48]>> Theory number two.

[01:10:49]>> Yeah. Hm.

[01:10:51]>> But maybe it's ambiguous. Maybe.

[01:10:53]>> I I don't know. I'll be interested to see what people say about that.

[01:10:56]>> Yeah, me too. Yeah. I want to know like what y'all think.

[01:11:00]>> Do you fall in one of those or or a different one or, you know, >> where where where do you land on that?

[01:11:06]Because that's like such an interesting convers. I I don't I don't always love the muse conversations, but for this one, it I really was like really struggling with why we're saying, "Okay, it's over." And then we suddenly switched to like >> this like happy dancing in my dress in the sun.

[01:11:22]>> Right. So can I just remind everyone that although um my level of ardition in poetic exesus is very high indeed.

[01:11:32]>> I didn't even really understand any of those words.

[01:11:35]>> I'm real smart and can read good.

[01:11:36]>> Gotcha. Okay.

[01:11:39]>> Nevertheless, I do not have all the right answers. And although Angela is steeped in the lore of Swifty in ways, she is very speculative. And so I think it would be interesting to hear what you guys have to say. Yeah. I mean, we we honestly, to be straight, um we we don't have all the right answers.

[01:11:59]>> No, we have no clue.

[01:12:01]>> So, Oh, we have clues.

[01:12:03]>> We're just sanctimoniously performing saliloquates.

[01:12:06]>> That's right.

[01:12:09]>> I was excited for you to hear that line.

[01:12:10]>> That is correct. see that line the sanctimoniously performing siloquiz.

[01:12:14]>> Okay. So, I do have one other thing to say about the song and that is it it did leave me to think more holistically about the common romantic tropes that she employs.

[01:12:26]>> Okay. Yeah.

[01:12:27]>> Right. Because I started off saying that the girl who's in love with the bad boy and the girl has a strict father, a religious father or something like that.

[01:12:37]um you know is is a common trope in in romance writing.

[01:12:43]>> Um and I began thinking about her other works.

[01:12:46]>> Okay.

[01:12:47]>> That that create common romance tropes.

[01:12:51]>> Okay. I just like that you can do that now.

[01:12:53]>> Yeah. It is it is fun. Right. So, okay.

[01:12:56]So, I went to um Champagne Problems.

[01:13:00]>> This is the left at the altar trope.

[01:13:03]>> Uhhuh.

[01:13:04]>> Right. I mean, how many different movies have we seen where she's left at the altar?

[01:13:08]>> Uhuh.

[01:13:09]>> Or August Betty Cardigan is the summer love trope.

[01:13:13]>> Okay. Yeah.

[01:13:14]>> Right. It's it's that summer love and Greece, >> right? It's that Greece story. It's, you know, how many different songs can you think of? How many different movies? Um, you know, I think there there's a Tuesday Weld movie about that. um getaway car, the escape on the rebound trope, right? You know, how many times have we seen, oh, she's, you know, she's trying to get away from the guy that she's falling out of love with and bump, here comes this person, and she just on a whim, you know, on the extravagance of the moment, she jumps in the car and leaves.

[01:13:49]>> Um, enchanted, love story. Enchanted is certainly the love at first sight, >> right, trope. Um, love story is that >> it's basically this story.

[01:14:02]>> It's basically this story. It's the love happy ending story. Tis the damn season is the girl goes home and the old bow is still there trope. It's that sweet home Alabama, right? I mean, again, how many movies, how many songs can you think of?

[01:14:19]I'm going home to my little country town and oops, he's working at the gas station.

[01:14:26]Um, and so I began to wonder if we could look at all the different romance songs that she writes and slide them into these common tropes because I've come up with one, two, three, four, five, well, including this one, six different fairly common hallmark romance movie tropes that she employs in writing her music.

[01:14:48]>> Interesting. Well, you know, and again, I'm not saying that she used the trope because she's not creative. I'm not saying that it's not valid. Um, you know, I'm I'm simply identifying the trope and saying, you know, essentially I'm validating the use of the trope, right? Because she's essentially putting her own spin on what is otherwise uh fragments and facets of love stories.

[01:15:11]>> Yeah.

[01:15:12]>> Right. So, I don't know. Yeah, it is fun. It's fun to have a a repertoire, a group of songs that I can go back on and now think about how can I group and categorize them, >> right?

[01:15:24]>> So, yeah, I think I could write I think I could write a a a thesis or a dissertation on the use of romance tropes in the songs of Taylor Swift.

[01:15:33]>> Yeah, that's fun.

[01:15:34]>> Okay, >> let's do it.

[01:15:36]>> Get busy, Peter.

[01:15:38]>> Tell us your tropes.

[01:15:39]>> I'm retired.

[01:15:40]>> Oh, no. He doesn't want to write it. I need to write it. Somebody did say that on Patreon. And they were like, "Angela, he wants you to do all this writing."

[01:15:46]>> Amen.

[01:15:47]>> And I was like, "Oh, wait. Really?"

[01:15:49]>> Yeah. Whoever wrote it, you are right.

[01:15:52]You're very smart.

[01:15:53]>> Oh, no.

[01:15:55]>> Let me just quit my job and start writing.

[01:15:57]>> That's right.

[01:15:58]>> That does sound fun, actually. Let's do it.

[01:16:00]>> Okay.

[01:16:02]>> Okay. Is that all?

[01:16:03]>> That's all. That's all I got. I just had to throw out my my trope analysis. Um, you know. Yeah. Because I thought it was I thought it was interesting that she relies on what are otherwise things. And again, I I I don't mean to trivialize it all because I say it's on the Hallmark movie channel.

[01:16:20]>> Yeah. But these are stories that exist that are like the tropes exist for a reason because they're a thing that we're all familiar with and then, you know, we we like different versions of those >> and they touch us, right? I mean, you know, the most commonly told story in all of world storytelling is a Cinderella story.

[01:16:36]>> It's it's told in almost every world culture. It has hundreds of variations.

[01:16:40]Um, look at the Aron Thompson index or look at Stithith Thompson's morphology of the fairy tale and you'll see that Cinderella is told hundreds of different ways and it's because it touches us.

[01:16:53]Yeah.

[01:16:53]>> Right. And so I'm not saying it's invalid. Um, not at all. As a matter of fact, it makes it, I believe, more valid that she uses these.

[01:17:00]>> Yeah.

[01:17:00]>> Yeah. And it's fun to see the the little spin that she does on them.

[01:17:03]>> Right.

[01:17:04]>> Okay. Listen to the song.

[01:17:05]>> Hear the song.

[01:17:06]>> I'm ready.

[01:17:06]>> Okay. We're going to watch the lyric video and then watch the Aerys tour performance.

[01:17:11]>> Okay.

[01:17:12]>> From the official movie.

[01:17:13]>> Oh, yeah.

[01:17:13]>> So, it's it's good.

[01:17:15]>> Okay. We'll be right back.

[01:17:21]>> That was That was going into another song.

[01:17:24]>> What was this?

[01:17:25]>> That's a Travis Kelce being a chief.

[01:17:29]>> Oh, that's right. Okay.

[01:17:31]>> That's going into a Travis song.

[01:17:33]>> I see one I'm not privileged to hear yet. Yeah, which is another reason that I think that the two muse conversation is kind of valid because she immediately takes that song into a happy Travis song on this set list.

[01:17:51]>> Yeah. You know, that was one thing I did have a little trouble getting a hold of was what's the tone? Because it felt like it was condemnatory of religious ideas or structured society, but then it was angry at people for speculating on the nature of her life, but then it was joyful when she was with her wild boy, you know. So that if I were trying to establish the tone, I'd have to say there were tones.

[01:18:14]>> Agreed.

[01:18:14]>> You know, that modulate throughout the song.

[01:18:17]>> Yeah, totally.

[01:18:19]>> Okay, >> you ready? Exit strategy.

[01:18:21]>> What?

[01:18:24]>> This is our outro.

[01:18:26]>> Our outro. Our utro.

[01:18:28]>> That's right.

[01:18:28]>> Um, okay.

[01:18:30]Grade four. But Daddy, I love him from the tortured poets department. Lyrical strength.

[01:18:37]>> You know, I was a little put off by how long it was.

[01:18:40]>> Okay.

[01:18:40]>> Um, not that I'm against reading a long poem. Uh, but there were there were some redundancy elements, but you know, you got to forgive that. That's a song, right? You're going to >> the choruses. Yeah.

[01:18:50]>> Yeah, you've got to sing the choruses. I really enjoyed seeing the um the video from the movie.

[01:18:55]>> Me, too.

[01:18:56]>> Yeah, that's uh fun. I like to see her interpret with her body the joy of going with the wild boy. That was fun.

[01:19:04]>> Um I really liked the choice of Sarah and Hannah to represent that side of >> Yeah, that's crazy.

[01:19:11]>> Yeah. and and the way that they do create, you know, foil characteristics whereupon you're predicated on just popping babies. Um, I mean, again, you know, nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that was not her goal at the time.

[01:19:26]>> Um, so I really enjoyed the lyricism of it. Use of literary devices 98.

[01:19:34]>> Okay.

[01:19:35]Um, narrative and structure.

[01:19:39]You know, it was funny because I had to read it several times to try to figure out, okay, who's who's the speaker?

[01:19:44]Who's it addressed? You know, it is it addressing the fictive daddy? Are we daddy? Is it the elders? Is there because I began to see it's like a collective soul. Um 95.

[01:19:55]>> Okay.

[01:19:57]Um production and atmosphere.

[01:19:59]>> Oh man, the Aerys tour version. I would go and see that.

[01:20:03]>> Yeah. So good.

[01:20:04]>> Um >> I never got to see that in real life cuz that was added on later. Oh yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:09]>> Yeah. Um that was really fun. That's a 99. I love watching her.

[01:20:12]>> Yeah, I agree.

[01:20:14]>> That Wait, that sounded a little lyric.

[01:20:15]I like watching her.

[01:20:16]>> Oh no.

[01:20:17]>> No.

[01:20:19]>> Judgmental creep.

[01:20:20]>> Yeah, I know.

[01:20:21]>> Um lore and literary references.

[01:20:24]>> Um yeah, you know, uh biblical references. Hamlet, that's good. The 97.

[01:20:30]>> Okay. And emotional impact. Oh, you know, I mean, it was a kind of romantic trope that I haven't necessarily experienced, and I have not had that experience of being so famous that other people are judgmental about my life choices, and I just want them to get the heck out.

[01:20:44]>> Yeah.

[01:20:46]>> But I understood, you know, so a 92.

[01:20:49]>> Okay, that gives us 96.

[01:20:52]>> Yeah.

[01:20:52]>> Okay.

[01:20:53]>> Yeah. Fun song.

[01:20:53]>> It's good. Yeah.

[01:20:54]>> I have that feeling you're feeding me the good ones right now. So, >> yeah, you know.

[01:20:59]>> Okay.

[01:20:59]>> We got to keep things interesting for you.

[01:21:01]>> I know. Thank you very much.

[01:21:03]Okay. Is that all?

[01:21:04]>> That's all I got.

[01:21:05]>> Okay. Swifty and Scholar Pod is where you can find us on social um on Instagram and Tik Tok. You can follow Uncle Jerry on Instagram at Dr. Unclejerry. And you can follow me at Angela Mcdow. And um yeah, we will see you here next week for something different.

[01:21:20]>> Such fun.

[01:21:21]>> Okay. Bye.