The National Heritage Resources Act (NHR Act) regulates grave exhumation and relocation through Section 36, which requires permits from SAHRA or provincial heritage authorities for graves older than 60 years outside formal cemeteries, with different requirements for graves of victims of conflict, ancestral graves, and traditional leaders; funeral undertakers can assist families with these processes under supervision of heritage specialists, and non-compliance may result in contraventions, cease works orders, or permit withdrawals.
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Navigating Legal Requirements for Relocation Under the National Heritage Resources Act
Added:National Heritage Resources Act. And so it's therefore important that you understand the sector broadly, but more specifically on how directly or indirectly this would have an impact on you and your operations as the funeral undertakers associations. We will drill into the details as we go on to the graves so that we can look at um uh that aspect that deals with the graves and then we can look at um the sort ofility really between Sara and selves as stakeholders that intersect with the sector in various uh in various at various times and spaces.
By way of intro what is Sara? Some people when you say Sara they say who you know they think Sara is a person h it's not a person it's an entity SAR s a h r a is an acronym for the south African heritage resources agency um s is a statuto organ statutory organization that was established in terms of the national heritage resources act 25 of as a body that is responsible responsible for the protection of South Africa's cultural heritage resources.
And as some of you may know, SAR replaced what was called the National Monuments Council in 1999 in the following year.
CSR is 26. Um he has and it is under the National Department of Sport, Arts and Culture. It's important to to point out that SAR should not be confused with the National Heritage Council.
It's a sister entity is a sister entity that is also under the arts and culture but has a different legislative mandate uh from SAR. So Sara is the regulatory authority when it comes to and it's the only regulatory authority um when it to uh to this um particular thing of administering the act. Now um just perhaps to see on how SAR is made up. SA has different units within it and these units are all kind of focus on a different I would say section of the legislation uh in order to to cover holistically the conservation of her and so you have the APM unit which is the short archaeology meteorites and paleontology uh unit um we have the burial grounds and graves. We have the built environment unit applications unit and and we have the unit. We have the heritage protection unit. We have the national inventory unit. We have the maritime and underwater cultural heritage unit. And then we have the rep repatriation and restitution office. Um you would find that particularly the development applications unit and the APM uh the heritage protection and the RRO quite a bit intersect um in a lot of uh a lot of um the spaces. So that's how SAR is is is structured. The burial grounds and graves unit would implement section 36 and the development applications unit would implement section 38 and and and so on. The heritage objects units section 32 and so on and so on. So the the vation um are covered broadly within SAR. Um and what is then the role of SAR in terms of its legislative mandate?
uh the role of SAR is to coordinate the identific recording and management of South Africa's heritage resources very very important um and I think that uh when we say coordinate important to then touch base with various stakeholders um both within the sector but also some which we think may perhaps the sector and we have not brought them in in order to um to loop everybody into this uh coordination of uming of the national estate but also important to introduce an integrated system of identification, assessment and management of heritage resources. very very important. Um Sara has done that where um we need to know and whether they are being interfered with or they are moved and relocated from one one point to another. Um so and to to to achieve that uh there is a system that has been funeral undertaker associations uh are going to um exume and that is protected by the act. you would then have to comply with and follow through um in your line of work. but also to encourage and promote public national heritage and to assist uh advise and provide professional expertise to any authority responsible national estate at provincial and a local level.
Say that um Sara manages within the three tiers of government the national the provincial and the local.
So with the national SAR is the ministers the the heritage resources at a national level provincial heritage resources authorities such as here in Koeng it's the Koeng Pra if you are in Guazulu Amafa if you are in the Western Cape Western Cape if you are in Limpopo it's Lra Limpopo heritage resource etc those are the provincial ones and then the local um authorities would refer to the local municipalities ities we work and intersect quite quite frequently with the uh with the with the municipalities as well. So I thought I should just maybe explain that and what it means because what that means doing work in for example um there are certain applications that would not come to us as Sara but that would go to Amafa in Guazulunatal so that's very important um but also to monitor and ensure compliance national principles standards and policies for heritage resourc just to without going into detail which my colleagues are going to do. Um the legislative framework that exists um we have the National Heritage Resources Act 25 of 1999 um and then we also have regulations and in particular with graves. You can look at chapter 9 and chapter 11. They deal with um the the the burial grounds and graves. But you also have the burial grounds and graves permitting policy that is available. Um but also having said that these are legislations that directly impact SAR um and and its operations and within SAR but if you look outside we don't just work alone. There are other set of legislations which I know that as Funeral Undertaker associations you comply with but may also intersect with Sara. For example, the National Health Act, uh the National Health Act was what was called the Human Tissue Act of 1983, right? So that was repealed and replaced by the National Health Act. So as you read through the legislation, it might say Human Tissue Act. Uh it's now the the the the National Health Act. And then we have the Commonwealth War Graves Act, right, of 1992. This relates to graves of people that died in the first and second world war. Those graves are administered by the commonwealth war graves act of 1992 and the commonwealth war graves commission is an organization that we intersect with and they they are for those graves and then also there are municipal bylaws h on our cemeteries and also burials as well. So we must ensure that our legislation is in harmony or whatever else we do is in harmony with all these legislations that I've just highlighted as an example. It's not exhaustive but these are the primary ones that I have um looked at. So having said that uh graves are an important part of our national estate and must be identified documented and conserved for posterity. And the question is what is the national estate as to a collection of heritage resources in their broad spectrum? Um and those heritage resources are of course of cultural significance um and of cultural value that must be preserved for future generations. Now we have buildings as you know buildings that are 60 years and older are automatically protected by the act. Even if it's your house, if your house is, you cannot just knock it and just change it willy-nilly with the legislation. Um, there are heritage objects. Um, I talked about the heritage objects unit earlier. So, there are heritage objects that are protected by the act. certain objects that are of national value cannot just be moved around willy-nilly, exported and even sold willy-nilly because that would constitute u a breach of the legislation. um just in an um some time ago I don't remember it was perhaps about five or so years ago um someone was scrolling through the internet and they came across a report of Steve Bagle on sale online right so um and uh you know investigations had to be done to try and see how did it get where it was um Sara works um with the police as well to try and cap some of those. Some time ago, we also found an auction of um archaeological stones.
Um I don't know where this person picked them up, but they decided it was a them etc. So yeah, I'm just giving an example on heritage objects. And then we have archaeological sites as well that protected by the act with graves, burial grounds and graves. And we also have maritime and underwater cultural heritage. Um this is very very important. Some of you mayo is protected by the act. It's a national heritage. Also got shipwrecks around the country that are protected as well.
And therefore the PG unit the burial grounds and graves unit focuses on the conservation of graves that do not section 38. Now section 38 deals with large scale developments such as mining, township development etc. Um so our unit has a very narrow section 36 which is burial grounds and graves uh under the national resources act. I'm glad that we've got our colleagues from the uh development applications unit who are going to just give you an idea on what section 38 is and requirements that are required as well from there. And then within act we have section three. Section three identifies the various categories of graves that are protected by the national heritage resources act role becomes very very important.
So section 36 as you go on. So section 3 says these are the graves you can consult that are protected. But then section 36 then outlines the requirements or compliance requirements that are needed to effect the protection of those. Um these are the graves in terms of the act. Ancestral graves are protected by the act. You cannot exume and move them without a requisite permit from SAR or from a provincial heritage resources authority. Graves and graves of traditional leaders they are protected by the act. You cannot temper with those graves without a permit from s of victims of conflict. Graves of victim include those who died in any war within the borders of the republic including the anti-colonial wars that were fought and so those are graves of victims of conflict. They are automatic national heritage resources act. uh we have historical cemeteries and then we have other graves that may not be covered by the National Health Act. For for example, when you come across a grave that is perhaps a heap of stone um and it looks well, you're not sure about age. The rule of thumb is that you automatically assume that it is 60 years and above until evidence to the contrary has been.
This is to afford that grave protection while processes and verification is being done. All right. So, and then you have graves of people who of individuals designated by a notice in a government gazette. And then very very important and this is where I think your role becomes important and I think this forms the backdrop of why we've actually brought everybody together. It's graves that are outside a formal cemetery which are 60 years and older.
Increasingly we are receiving requests from funeralers who have been contracted by families to say my grandfather was buried in K Fontaine. I want him to move I want to I want to move him to spring fontain where I am. What do I do? All right. So those that's where I think that we found that there is a gap because every so we increasingly have a number of covered by the legislation as the years go by and will intersect with this particular um uh section and it will be important for you to at least have some some information.
Right. Moving on. The purpose of section 36 within the national heritage resources act to provide therefore a legislative framework for the protection of graves that are identified by the act as being part of the national estate and toity.
But also it is to include the coordination and identification and introduction of management systems uh for for such graves. And this is done through the regulations which are issued for you to be to um to uh to to to effect the exumation and relocation that you could be doing. Um and then we also assist in detailing must be undertaken. I know that my colleague missing is always assisting a number of funeral undertakers particularly those that that would like to relocate human remains because they are unaware of the system South African heritage information systems system which is the where the applications are made and where the permits are issued. So very very important it's important that you take note of that that uh the system is there it's online it's available that is where the things are done um and so SAR develops policies regulations issues guidelines and permits etc uh for graves I think I'll I'll just brush over it um on some sections of the legislation but I will not explain that much uh but this one is the one which I think really really impacts um your work uh where a person may without a permit issued by Sara or a provincial heritage resources authority destroy, damage, alter, exume or remove from its original position or the grave of a victim of conflict or any burial ground or part thereof which contains such graves. B, destroy, damage, altar, aume, remove from its original position or otherwise disturbed any grave or burial ground older than 60 years which is outside a formal if the grave is already within a municipal cemetery already protected by the laws of that municipality.
Um, unless it's a grave of a victim of conflict, I must emphasize that unless it's a grave of a victim of liberation struggle or in the anti-colonial wars and they were buried there. Um, you just need to comply with the municipality. But if it's a victim of conflict, you comply with the municipality and also comply with us.
But if it's outside a formal sim or a pra is the primary goto entity it's very very important right. So um and this is the most the where there's a built we are re receiving from funeral and is can you assist us with the process we would like to do one two three um you know and we then have to take them through that process. Um and also please just note that uh um uh if you see someone taking a metal detector to a cemetery uh you can ask them do you have a permit to do it? Please don't become party to to those that go looking for money of damage to old graves. For some reason some people gold coins. So, we're seeing a lot of vandalism with people going to graves and doing metal detectors and digging for gold coins and then leaving the human remains exposed.
Um, leaving the human remains um so yeah, so please ignore that the way that this is protected by by you cannot do that without complying. And then you also have a part that deals with what to do in cases where you've got um human remains that have been exposed. Very very important cuz normally people just run to the funeral and say they are now borns here. What do we do? And the question is that how do you advise what in that process? Um and this is also outlined uh this that are that need to be undertaken. just know that um you know subs has come in cotton off the site determine whether it's a crime scene or not if it's not a crime scene then heritage resources authorities take over etc and then you may then be that you have archaeologists that may be called in uh to intervene and then victims of conflict are defined I think I've just I don't need to go to go back over this one but victims of conflict are defined in the national heritage resources act African for uh those who in the liberation struggle whether they are within or outside of the republic.
All right. Very very important. Um that uh republic. I must say that I have colleagues from the repatriution office that are here. We are beginning to intersect with your sector in um some of the projects that are being done.
umation uh of those who died in the liberation their exumation and repatriation would be something that your sector would intersect with at some point. All right.
So very very important and what are these developments that that I talk about which do not trigger section 38 um and would require the development applications unit. Um you have family requests for exumation and relocation.
Very very important. This is contributor. Um accidentally exposed human remains uh in an area that's outside a big development. Let's say for example um I had a picture here. All right. What you see on the top right hand yeah top right hand uh side of the picture. Um that is in Herman but it's in an informal settlement. So this person um these people moved into the area and started pitching the settlement. But this person wanted to build a house and as they were digging they came across human remains of a young girl. Those are the ones that you are seeing on the top.
Um that's not a big scale is what do you do right and so this is very very important that there is a process that is followed. uh we have cases from the northwest where someone is extending their house and they dig and they come across our human domains. So those would come to us to assist you with the pro what needs to be done. And then we also look at graves that are protected by the that have been declared as national heritage sites. For example, the grave of um say Reverend Mahaban in Kronstad or the the grave of Pixley is or the grave of Rahim Musa. Those are national heritage sites as an example. Um and also graves of victims of this is a concentration camp symmetry, right? Those are graves that are protected by the act and um we would intervene as Sara.
Let me just come to this particular section I think is very important a shared responsibility that funeral undertakers are an important stakeholder in the conservation of graves. Let me say that may not have contacted you in the past and we recognize that it's a gap.
Funeral undertakers are very important because they must in a way directly or indirect the n and um grounds and graves unit graves that fall outside the municipal s and do not trigger section 38. Those are graves that are of intense intense interest to us because those graves require a process of compliance that is undertaken.
And what we have done as Sara is that we have recognized that for family to move one person from a farm to a formal municipality to to hire a heritage specialist or an archaeologist. For them it would be very expensive to allow them to hire funeral to assist them with that process provided the funeral undertakers then comply with the legislation as have just outlined. So we then have requirements which my colleagues are going to expand on requirements on what it is that you need to comply with for those graves to be exumed and relocated. So this is very important and that's where I think your sector will be is is very very very pivotal. So you do in in that sense with the exumation and therefore must comply with the NAR or the National Heritage Resources Act in um funeral undertakers are hired by herists to do the exumation under their supervision.
Even then it means that funeral undertakers will have to constantly intersect with the archaeologist who has been hired a mining company that wants to relocate 20 graves. Right? That's where I think that um a bit of knowledge by the funeral undertakers will assist in in making sure that is um is better is better managed and implement complying with the NAR and as I've said these are usually requests for exumation and relocation. So SAR permits them to use funeral. I've spoken in a lot of instances are 60 years and older must comply with the NAR. I think we've looked at that the indirect um uh part of the compliance.
There are general principles there of the herit of heritage resource that are very important for you to be aware of uh in doing particular work uh that you are that you are a critical part of that we must then take into account all values and indigenous knowledge system. We're speaking to cultural sensitivity uh and awareness um but also inclusion and engagement of stakeholders. Um it's important for example as part of compliance that we have proof that the family has that the grave must be moved and relocated of this of the of of the management of um or rather heritage resources must be presented for research education and tourism in a way that ensures dignity for the cultural values.
Resources management must guard against the use of heritage purposes and political gain that is in the legislation. The developer pays. In other words, it's not Sara that pays when there's a request for exumation. It is the family that has requested the exumation to be done. They are responsible for everything. If they must perform rituals, they carry that. All we want to do as SAR is to ensure that that grave which is protected in terms of the act is handled with dignity and in a way that it can be verified. Uh let me give the challenge that is emerging but perhaps it will speak to this point. One of the threats of litigations that we are seeing in the sector comes from graves.
people are taking uh suing each other or coming to Sara with complaints that relates to graves increasing. So my grandfather was buried here 20 years back and um yeah let me not mention names but let me give you this case from Limpopo in case uh I get sued too but there is there there there is this case in in Limpopo dates back 20 20 21 years 20 yeah 20 21 years the community then res were re exumed relocated and rearied and and they are saying today no the process was not followed 20 years ago.
Now the systems we have today such as SARS the South African heritage did not exist then now trying to find the records and everything.
I'm just giving this as an example that if the followed properly and we don't document everything that we are doing, you could sit as a funeral under 20 years from now with a complaint that you exumed a person from farm A and you took them to a municipality without the permission of the family.
And so I'm just giving this example that graves are a pressure point at this point. And uh sometimes you realize that there's a subtext. In other words, what's happening there has nothing to do with graves. A lot about that, right?
Cost of exonation, reparial and any cultural rights that are required.
Um the colonial and uppad period also left a lot of families as you know people were forcibly removed and so on.
Um died and were buried there. uh people left behind loved ones and today people are coming back and claiming those graves and in some instances yes it's been proven and in some instances um it is proving to be a little bit more challenging so we have those community as well and then uh as Sara we also rehabilitate graves of victims of conflict and we regulate the exumation of graves that are known and unknown to contribute to symbolic restitution and this is something that my colleagues the RRO are busy with which is um restitution um and repatriation of human remains.
And then um this speaks to this is a part of the legislation that speaks to and the reparial of human remains within the republic especially those that died outside South Africa um for them to be repatriated back particularly those that were involved in the liberation struggle. Um we've had um a big project that was done and a funeral undertaker was of great assistance in um in having 63 remains that were unethically collected reeried in the we were assisted by a funeral undertaker to repatriate the human remains of liberation stratos from Zambia and Zimbabwe for repar to say someone might say How are we relevant to the sector? Right? Because that that was perhaps a question people felt that they might you are relevant in the sector uh in that um well these are the challenges that we have as I'm going to begin winding down.
These are the challenges that we have.
We have challenges of an author.
um the picture that you are seeing there um which is at the bottom I think I moved forward too quickly.
What's happening in the sector what we are beginning to see is the unethical exum the unauthorized exumations that have happened. So the picture on the bottom left that you are seeing on the bottom left um of course this relates to a section 38 development but this is a case where there was a graveyard and this graveyard is on a land was owned by a mine some time back but that mine has allowed a farmer to farm continue farming around them but for some reason someone went there demon and exumed the human remains that were there and took them and we don't know who it was.
So we have challenges that relate to unauthorized education and maybe by bringing you into the in this discussion we hope that um with the members that you have that are under your fault you can sensitize them to to some of these challenges that we are and then we have vandalism I think this one you are aware not in any way something that's related to your sector but we're sharing it broadly this is vandalism of graves that is happening throughout that we see you are seeing there is the grave of Reverend Mahaban in the free state. It was rehabilitated and over during COVID 19 um and the subsequent doctors that came that grave of all its metal and other things and uh those metals as I speak to you are gone uh at this point that frame. So vandalism is a big one and we have and this is where perhaps information sharing also becomes important the informal de the informal uh settlements that are developing um people come without faith so the pictures I've shared with you there we went back to Hammers an informal road close to that segment people were driving all um over up and down. But what then happened is that it looks like there was a grave there very old and then it rained off and human remains were exposed.
Right? So very important this is a challenge that we are facing that maybe by by involving you in the sector. It might be helpful to also in the spaces where you our communities on this, but you also have exposed human remains that exposed due to weathering and um and other and other natural elements.
And then lastly, uh funeral undertakers are an important stakeholder in the management of graves and recognized this reality and commenced a process and this is what we are doing of engagement with the sector.
Um and SAR is committed to communicating that is information sharing that will assist the funeral undertakers to also comply with provisions of the National Heritage Resources Act. So very very important that whether you are complying directly or indirectly we we we are committed to assisting you to be able to comply and any questions we are prepared to take you to hold your hand and take you through our processes. But what we also envision as an outcome of this is a guideline document that we will share with yourselves so that you can also then disseminate to your members in their various spaces to say um this is how the NAR affect the National Heritage Resources Act affects you. This is how you must comply. These are the requirements and from time to time we will amend those guidelines. But I think um it would be a useless effort for us to convene and then after this it's just there's nothing that happens.
So it's our view that there must be something that comes out of this as a product which will empower uh yourselves uh your associations and your members in making sure that they are compliant with the National Heritage Resources Act. Um with that broad sweep, I'll just like to say uh thank you very much. Uh thank >> thank you so so much Mr. Mata. Please give another big round of applause.
Um I think it was a very very important presentation.
Um he highlighted um key issues. I think primarily is that every year the inventory of these protected graves, these graves that you have to comply with is growing. So um very interestingly um it's now 2026. So any grave from 1966 and before has to fulfill um these requirements that were painted out here.
I think um it was also an invitation to the to the sector that um there is a an opportunity for partnership that you play a very important role in protecting South Africa's heritage and I think ultimately these processes that were highlighted here protect both the funeral association members and the families that are making these requests as well as the developers. So it's open to questions. Um please as I said it's a safe space no right or wrong answers and ultimately um your questions will inform the guidelines that they're going to develop um to provide with anyone here so the floor is open we will take questions if they are in all right we've got a hand there is there any other hands I just want to acknowledge you and then we'll bring the microphone okay we can start with the gentlemen okay sure >> okay also there Oh, they're recording it. Yeah.
>> Is the regulations from Sara on a national basis or is it brought down on the provincial basis? So if I do exubation in will I have the same rules as when I do it in >> everybody got their own house rules, their own bylaws or will it be same?
>> That's a very very good question. Yeah, you come on for >> um thank you very much for for that question. Um because SAR is the national body um all the other regulations that are developed by PRA are then subject to the National Heritage Resources Act. So they they cannot be in conflict with the National Heritage Resources Act or the guidelines that SAR would have provided um or issued out. Um the the one way perhaps it it's sort of a nuance would be the municipality say the relocation is to a local municipality. Uh you would have to study carefully the the nuances on their requirements. Um but still in principle there needs to be a a consistency and harmony in terms of the um the principles both from the national level and to a provincial level. And then lastly to say that Sara is the one that then sets the the standards and then the PRA would need to then comply.
Um we've done that recently with Limpopo, the province of Limpopo where we've been assisting them to develop their system so that they can then comply that way it then works better uh for yourselves and then where there's a conflict um we are available to advise and assist and see how that can be done.
Thanks.
>> Thank you so much. We're still taking questions and maybe just to add what's important to the guideline is that there are those provinces where SAR is issuing the permits but there are those provinces that have competency to then like Western Cape for example, Limpopo recently where you'll then apply to the province and not Sara. So I think in the guideline it has to be clear as to when you're in Keng you go here. If you're in the Northern Cape you go there. Yeah.
Thank you so much. All right. There's a hand over there.
>> Good morning.
>> Morning.
>> Uh you alluded to us as in relations to um people who are buried 60 years older >> and there was a mining activity for example >> that was conducted.
So now come a family member to that real side supposedly the real side and said no my greatgrandfather was born here >> so I need um closure as to whether where is he so now there's little resource to now provide the family member to say they were moved from this point to another point so how do you bring then bring closure to that kind of family to say okay the family member was then moved to the party and there's little resource to provide to the family. The family member needs a closure to them.
So, how do you then assist with the >> Thank you so much. I think you're asking a very important question because these are real these are real life cases.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um ju just to say yeah that that's actually that's where the pressure point is and my colleagues from the DAU uh will perhaps speak a little bit about this that we have a lot of families that are coming to look for their loved ones.
One of the ways um in which uh Sara assists and it's also limited uh because of the resources that are limited um it's when it comes to where families are unsure of where the person may be buried. Uh we had a case years back in Limpopo where uh we had such an experience and we commissioned a GPR ground penetrating rad analysis in an area where the family pointed out the person had been buried. Um and uh the rudd came back negative and that report was submitted to the family to say it was not here. So that's one way in which families are assisted but also um in cases where it's an issue of resources um SAR is is not able to really intervene uh in providing say financial assistance to families to be able to say the person has been located and they in a mine and they need to be moved. What may happen is that and I think my colleague Sabel will speak about this is that generally when a mining area has been uh determined um and they would like to embark on a process of commencing activities in that area. They are responsible for assisting families in exum, exuming and relocating and rebearing their loved ones in a separate place. Um so mines would carry the cost including of the rituals that are done to do that. I think it's a different case especially when say mining activities commenced 20 years back um and uh the person comes and says under this mine dump that has now been put here where my families that's a very difficult one we normally refer those to the commission CRL commission rights commission for so that they can mediate and see how that is that is resolved yeah I don't know whether I've answered things >> thank you so much It's very complex um you know and there's many different dynamics at each site but um these are the real life cases that you encounter and they take many years to resolve.
They end up at the public protector. So maybe also in his presentation it's about getting it right the first time so that in 10 years time you don't deal with these cases. All right there's a hand over here. Um oh sorry someone online. Okay let's take this gentleman first and then we'll go online.
Thank you. I actually have quite a number of questions, but I'll >> No, please go ahead.
>> I'll stick to the the most pertinent ones. I think just to add to to that comment in my experience and Mr. Mad might have referenced some of our minds of 20 22 years ago. Um we follow the Sara process and instruct when we appoint undertakers to follow the the SAR process whether or not the graves are protected by by the by the NAR. SAR is the only regulator that can guarantee records into the future of any activities that that have taken place.
So from my point of view, if any of the undertakers, if you haven't participated in the or actively been involved in the SAR process, do so because SAR guarantees that there's records. It protects you, it protects the family, and it protects the developer if you're looking for developer. The question I have, one of the questions I have though is regarding ancestral graves.
That's not clearly defined in the act.
How do you define ancestral graves? In my opinion, every single grave is an ancestral grave, especially if it's an elder person that have descendants.
Um, we sight of caution again when we go into relocation. consider all graves that are claimed as ancestral graves because they are families, descended families, whether or not they are 60 years old, but I think there's a gap um in the act in in how ancestral graves are defined.
>> Thank you so so much. I think that's a very very important point that you've raised. You can come answer the question. I'll also give my input.
>> Um yes. So when the questions are hotter, I will defer to my to my boss to answer. Yeah. Uh you are right. I think Sarah has currently we've provided input for the amendment of the legislation.
Certainly the legislation was proclaimed in 1999 and it has not been changed and clearly there have been movements in terms of the experience and its implementation on the ground. So that's very very important that yes you are right to say that graves are connected to people and therefore those people that are now deceased are ancestors of those that are still life. So that that's very important. I think where it becomes a a challenge is where the graves are sort of unclaimed or unknown but they exist right. I think that was the perhaps the rational behind just putting a broad sweep saying that those graves at some point belong to somebody um uh to try and protect those graves.
Um I I I I can say that uh you know what you've just said now the process really protects you. Um here is an example that we have we had two two three years back a particular individual uh or community wrote to the president of the republic copied the department and copied Sara and and a number of people and said um Sara is violating our rights by allowing a particular heritage specialist in exuming those graves.
Fortunately, what we had done, the heritage specialist had come and said, "These graves, no one has come forward to claim them."
And we said to them, "300 of them."
And he said, "Yes." Said, "No, no, no.
Go back please." He was very upset with us, but we said go back. uh please just give us another I know it's not necessary but another 60 days of public participation would not harm just please and he agreed and then he was cited in that complaint.
We were able to pull up the record to say this person went above and beyond in their public consultation process and no one still came forward and that proof was pulled out from the record and provided and the complainants never came back with a follow-up query.
And I'm emphasizing what he was saying that that compliance is very very important. um even if no one has come forward to claim the graves, there has to be that particular process. Uh because ultimately someone down the line may claim whether spuriously so or legitimately so but at least you would have that to protect. I think that was just a precaution and as the legislation is being amended those things would perhaps become much more defined with time. Yeah. But you are right.
>> Yes. Thank you so much. And yeah, I think he's covered it thoroughly. It's the the classifications, right? Victims of conflict, ancestral graves, etc. Ultimately, um we know that there are these graves of significance, but all graves are significant. If your mother is buried somewhere, that's significant to you. Um what we I I think trying to guard against is those frivolous claims where someone can just claim any grave as their own, which is why the process becomes important. But I think you've covered it adequately. Thank you. All right. I think we've got a question online. Can you please invite them? Are we going to be able to hear them? All right. Uh if you're online, please go ahead with your question. Unfortunately, I can't see the names right now.
All right.
>> Okay. I guess I can hear you. Please go ahead.
>> Okay. Um my name is Rasula PC from the northwest province museums and heritage specialist.
uh comment um the three entire system of managing and protecting heritage resources >> particularly when we look at the local authorities we seem to be focusing on municipalities and I'm not sure if municipal bylaws consume the responsibility of traditional leadership >> because traditional I should believe that they form part of the local authorities and uh H I suppose that's the gap that that we are having in terms of management and protection of our heritage resources and uh also um our prayers our prayers including Sara as well um we need to to to improve in bridging the gap in terms of capacitating our local authorities particularly municipalities you know um also in terms of grading and declarations you know the sessions that we are having currently if we can cascade that to our local authorities I think um we will be um moving towards a a wonderful direction. Um the question I want to understand what qualifies a as a formal summit. For example, um you find graves in a township that are not fenced um dating back to the 1930s. Uh would we say those graves qualify as a formal cemetery? I give thanks.
>> Thank you so so much for your comments.
They are very much appreciated. I'll invite Mr. Mat first and then I'll I'll also give some input.
>> Um thank you thank you very much uh Lisi for for for that. I think it is certainly correct because not all exumed and relocated graves will go to a formal cemetery. Some will go to a village which is under a traditional authority.
Right? And so we've got guidelines then to say that there must be permission that comes a letter that comes from the traditional authority and I think I'm getting into the specifics that my colleagues will talk about a letter that comes from the traditional authority that says yes you can bury here right um or that says yes this exumation can happen so that we don't get accusations where people will accuse yourselves um and also heritage specialists of burying someone in an area where they have not been authorized. So we require those as part of our compliance. So he is right. Yes, traditional authorities to add to a degree indeed are also responsible for um you know for for for for granting permission for people to reenter human remains that have been exumed and therefore they form part of the compliance process and so if that if your work involves that overlap it would be important. I think that um the issue of of of really a formal symmetry. It says here in terms of the legislation, it says a formal symmetry administered by a local authority. Very very important that there is that caveat that um there are those symmetries that are old which were formal symmetries but perhaps have fallen by the wayside over time. Um but you may find that there is no authority that's responsible for them. All right. But the those where h the local authority exists, there's got to be that compliance that follows through. Um and so Sara's S's intervention would apply to those graves that are outside that formal cemetery. Even if um those graves as you are saying that you can tell that this was a local community that was burying there and etc etc. I can give an example in the eastern cape with rural areas. In rural areas you've got what are called sort of there would be formal in the sense that the traditional leader has designated that this is the burial area for the community. You can't just bury everywhere. they do in other areas designate that it is a burial area for the community. So it may not be formal in in that sense but uh in the sense of really having it having GPS coordinates on where it starts etc but it is a designated area of barrier and if such areas exist um that date back to the 1930s automatically they are protected by the act that one cannot just go there willy-nilly and interfere. I also take your recommendation of saying let's empower our local municipalities. It is true that there is a gap uh particularly when you come to the local um local level of government and perhaps that's where we we may need we've had engagements with Sala and we still continue to work with our colleagues to be able to to sensitize them on the importance of compliance when it comes to this. Uh thanks.
>> Thank you so much Mr. Mr. Matan, thank you for the question. Maybe just to add that um for this particular session um we did want to focus on the um funeral associations and Mr. Mata did say this is not a one oneoff session in the following years there'll be other stakeholders and I think the local authorities are are a very important stakeholder. Thank you. All right, I'll take one more question if there is. If not, um we'll wrap up session one. We'll break for tea. Um but I'll just give a chart to see if there's any hands and if are there any hands online? All right.
Okay colleagues, this is not the only discussion we'll have today. Lots of time to chat. Please give Mr. Mata a very big round of applause.
Okay, so we're still doing very good with time. Um it's now 11:35. Can we take 10 minutes and return at 11:45? So, please grab some tea, water, bathroom break. At 10:45, we'll start with session two.
Heat. Heat.
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Heat. Heat.
All right, let's start settling All right, colleagues, let's start settling down. We'll be starting in a minute.
Right.
Online.
Good. Okay. All right. Thank you so much. Um we're now going to be starting with session two which will look at applying the law. Um the session will be presented by my colleague Miss Nouka Kumalo over here and Miss Ria Sang who's over there. Um but she'll be taking part two of the session. So they'll be looking um again Mr. Mata did a broad overview and they'll just going I think a little bit more in depth with looking at um the application of the law and how Sara processes these cases. So again um she'll do the presentation. I will then allow for a question and answer session and following that we'll then take a break for lunch. Um I do know that the bathroom is far so maybe just allow an extra 5 or 10 minutes um for that. But as I said um it's going to it's the safe it's a safe space. No right or wrong answers. Um please engage as much as you can. If there's anything for clarity please raise your hands. And without any further ado, please give a big round of applause for Miss Kumalo.
Um, good morning everyone.
My name is Noa.
Um, my colleagues know me as OA.
Um today I'll be just talking briefly about um section 38 of our act and and how it relates to section 36 as well as section 35 and the work that we've been doing. So I'm currently a senior heritage officer in the development applications unit. Um this unit is very brand new. Um it was established around 2023.
Um Just sorry.
Apologies for the interruption. Um so just to briefly touch on our unit. Our unit brand new started around about 2023 but beforehand um the archaeology paleontology meteorite unit used to deal with a lot of the development applications and then later on in 2023 that's where the development applications was established to manage all development related applications that Sara receives. That being it's not only just the development applications but the permits related to the development applications including grave relocations and any archaeological mitigations that might occur because interventions and mitigations that occur from development applications.
Um so because mostly to the undertakers I understand there's a couple of heritage practitioners in our audience um this presentation in section 38 is going to be very brief. I'm just going to um talk lightly on the law itself and not go into deep detail. Um section 38 of our act um is split mainly into two sections which is section 381 and section 388.
Section 381 stipulates the types of developments that trigger um the need for an application to SAR. It's mainly it specifies that any development longer than 300 m um any development that's larger than 500 um 5,000 m squared or any development that involves reszoning of a land parcel that is over 10,000 m u me squared requires an application to Sara as well as the combination of three or more vans or um breaking up land parcel into three or more vans would require any developer for notifying Sara Um this is because these types of developments might have an impact in the landscape.
Um but also as SAR as the national body we only deal with applications um for provinces that have not been assessed to be fully competent to handle section 3, section 36 and 35 itself. Um but the provinces that are fully competent to handle these sections of the act are the Western Cape, the Eastern Cape and Queser. Um section 36 is currently in a handover period phase uh for section 36 which is the Limpopo province. So they still we still do the development applications on behalf of the mostly handle the grave um reloc um relating to developments that stem from development applications um under section 36. But mostly the bulk of the are for very large developments that trigger not just our act but the national environmental management act.
And this is uh basically section 388 where we as SAR are also a commenting authority. We do not have decision-m powers um for issuing decisions for developments that are large scale and trigger the national environmental management act or the man um the mineral petroleum um develop um development resources act which is mostly all of the mining applications that we receive um trigger both the NEMA and the MP um the MPD um and these applications where um it falls under NEMA or the NPRDI um we as a commenting authority and comments but these developments all of them trigger a heritage impact assessment and with these heritage impact assessments um this is the main way in which a lot of the heritage specialists particularly ify burial grounds and graves across the country that areed in these alities.
So our SARS which is our online platform where we process these applications also acts and and this is a map of South Africa and all of the development applications that we received since 2013 which was the first launch of SARS. Um and this map we also use it to al um neighboring applications or development applications that um change how we consider the conservation of heritage sites in that given area.
um heritage impact assessments like I briefly said are um the main driver and mechanisms for SAR to actually record or have a record or lost record of any heritage sites that are identified that might be impacted by development applications. And like I said, um development applications have the potential Yeah.
Okay. So, heritage impact assessment impact assessment reports that are specialist. So if a developer um is wishing to develop within the parameters that are given that I've presented earlier or um a impact assessment specialist who has been appointed by a developer say a mine company um they would appoint a heritage specialist be it an archaeologist or say a town planner with a background in heritage would be appointed to do a heritage impacts assessment. Um the the person who is appointed to do a heritage impact assessment is also responsible for undertaking other specialist studies within the heritage impact um within the heritage industry. Be it a a grave assessment, stone age um assessment.
There would also be um built environmental assessments, cultural landscape. All these specialists would be appointed and fall underneath or contribute to the overall heritage of practice assessment report.
Uh as the heritage impact assessment report aims to identify.
Um the main aim is to also provideation measures if ever there are any impacts to heritage resources including burial grounds and graves. They also need to I um provide um conservation measures, mitigation measures clearly stipulated within the report and then submit that report to SAR for the provinces that we um provide comments on or to say the Amaz Provincial Heritage um resourc authority.
Okay. So, um given all the comments that we issue would also stipulate any conditions that we set to any of the developments. So if that will be impacted say a burial grounds, we could either say that scope of the development needs to change in order to um conserve the heritage sites in place or we could rem um recommend that a permit application um in order to have a final record of that heritage site and to mitigate that site before that area is impacted or cleared by the um development.
a specialist is because the trained in order to identify all types of heritage.
And in most instances, an archaeologist is appointed because they have the expertise to identify um many types of heritage resources, especially burial grounds and graves. Um burial grounds and graves in South Africa can appear in many different ways. be within a former cemetery or within a landscape that looks exactly like what we expect today a burial grounds to look like. um like these images in this um presentation where you can see um delineated graves or you can see monuments to um um victims of conflict and it's clearly visible on the landscape or they could to the landscape or graves that occur within pre-colonial settlements where it could be infant burials um that are buried beneath house floors or it could be isolated graves that are stones are used to demarcate that barrel ground or it could just be grasslands themselves. But also the main objective of a heritage impact assessment is to also do some form of preliminary local consultation with the local community to understand the different types of heritage resources that occur in the landscape and to have that record in place.
So leading on to a after a development application um and a heritage site needs to be mitigated or a burial ground needs to be u mitigated be it a grave relocation or a repair to have a permit application that is submitted to Sara on track from SARS and these are the requirements. So for any graves especially development related graves um we follow in our regulations which is the chapter 10 and chapter 11 of our regulations the narrow regulations which were gazetted in June of 2000 and SAR as it was stated by is that we deal with grades that are older than 60 years peritted and section 34 northwest application fee tends to be 5,000 rand for relocations.
Um and the permit is usually awarded to an archaeologist that was appointed by the developer themselves and that archaeologist is responsible for submitting the application on a grave register within the motivational report.
submitted to SAR on the per um permit application along with affidavit of the consent from the identified client that have come forward after a social consultation period and have um provided consent that their graves can be relocated to a formal cemetery. A formal cemetery could be a cemetery managed by the managed by the local tribal authority.
If it's a cemetery managed by the local information on how many so that this is for large applications. So if a development got to remove a large something say plus minus 20 and above um and the the family that have come to different types of cemeteries appear within the local um municipality or the tribal land um landscape settlement tribal land um landscape settlement of where um grades that are being relocated are now placed at. Um we also require not because of the regulations from SAR but because um the uh present when a grant has actually spoken to the local municipality and gotten a house permit has actually notified the police that they could be present.
Also willing to have these are not the only applications that we receive that are related to burial ground.
Um, sometimes, like I said, in a heritage impact assessment, you I you identify errors that most likely look like a burial ground, but actually do not look like a burial ground in a typical sense. And we're not sure if there's actual um um graves in that given area issued under section 35 our act and the reason for consultation underneath section 35.
Section 35 mainly governs um for archaeological sites sites and med there the act stipulates that a site is considered an archaeological site if it's older than 100 years and there in the act itself there's an assumption a general assumption that um any site that's over that is not the case itself sometimes there is living memory where local communities remember their um the their heritage within a given area over a 100 years. But the act allows for say test excavations to explore if there is a grave without consultation.
But now Greg um comes to phase the environmental practitioner if it's um a development subject to an EIA process already has been speaking to the local community in process and the local community is aware of a development occurring and they're aware of certain things that are happening in the landscape and there in in short we could consider that the the local communities are aware can also provide evidence that this some form of that that instance we do require some form of affidavit or letter of consent from the local communities to say that so that we have in that process if it is determined a great a burial is um occurs within the landscape then the developer and the two specialists can go ahead in this instance if there is a barrel round and grave. And then for a 36 application, we we know for sure the grave and we we only issue a permit for a definite grave um and there the grave there needs to be evidence. So once a permitation has been um issued and also expect a final report to locate it with images of the grave. But to go into detail on the consultation period, the consultation period happens before a permit application is ever submitted to SAR for um processing and consideration.
um under the regulations and this is to um either place a news newspaper ads within the local newspaper.
They have um informal graves or cemetery that may be impacted by their development claim. It would be developed and by the specialists they would also be liable to to appoint the undertakers who would be the responsibility to transfer any grades that are relocated from a given area to the area. Um all of this information has to the information on how the consultation has occurred.
Understand that the issue is a permit that could be legally binding in case in the future any family members not aware of any grave location um happening. We have a proof of it within the permit application itself. Um the affidavit affidav of consent comes after the consultation you know once there's families that have law is not specific on how this consent happens. Currently we work on the families having an affidavit to state that they are the legal family to responsibility because they are the same for example we do not require any other further investigation because that currently is not stipulated within our act. We currently work off and to claim a great or in consideration the heritage practitioner or the person who is the holder of the permit is responsible for in um the families that the actual relocation permit has been issued. They have five days to inform the families because in our act any person has the ability or the right to an appeal against any permit that has been issued. 14 days is in um in um the five days for the families to be informed that a permit has been issued is included within the 14 days. And currently as it stands our act does not have a condemnation period. um that needs to be considered if ever the act is um amended. But have a strict 14 days in order to lay an appeal against any permit that is issued by SAR and that appeal can be submitted by email with details provided inside the permit um the permit that is given by the specialist that is that needs to be communicated to the families themselves made to our SAR council because process the application. We cannot legally be the one to also against the decisions we have made. The appeal is sent to our council for consideration and is considered the first step within a legal process for appealing any decision that is by a department itself.
Higher than the council would probably be the minister before going to the court system.
Um but also briefly I could like I would like to showcase how um the permit application would look like on SARS.
So SARS like I said is a dig digital platform we work on. All our applications are on SARS. It is the last record of any heritage site that is identified within the heritage report.
We also have like an extraction project that is um um taking out or recording any heritage sites within heritage impact assessment reports and then loading it onto SARS as a heritage site.
When you first go onto SARS um you will see this page and if you trying if you if you're a first time applicants you have never used SARS you also need to register a profile. So you have to click on to actually create a profile of yourself with an email address would ideally like it to be a company so that if it's a company with more than one member more um the profile is not linked to one individual but a company and it's if that individual leaves the company once you've registered the um a profile our national inventory unit is the the content moderators of the site they're the ones who will approve your profile and then once your profile is approved profile. This is how SARS would look like. And then you can always go to your dashboard at the right um the right hand corner to dashboard and see all of the applications underneath your your profile or when your first time using SARS you can go to the application selector at the corner like this and you can see applications um selector and you go into this to create any application depending if it's a development application or permit application all of our applications would be created on the application selector you would have to define what you want to create on SARS.
You create a permit which would say apply for a permit. If you wanting to extend a permit because you have not completed any of the work you've applied for or received permit for, you'd actually select. In the instance, if it's the first time applying for a permit, you say apply for a permit. And then the you you have to define the permit type. So you have to define the permit type whether it's a section 36 permit application 5 permit application and also define the province this um application is for because if you select the province Western Cape the application will not be visible to any SAR applicants um employees. If you select Eastern Cape the application will not be visible to Sara. it will not be visible to any of the um employees.
Um it would be only be visible to people on the east. But for provinces that are managed by Sara, the form um is visible to all employees who are heritage officers at Sara to actually select themselves as case um case officers.
And then once you've selected the type of application you've done and the province, you have to select the form.
So you will select the form for the permit application for a formally protected if the site is formally declared as an as a national heritage site or a provincial heritage site. But for braver locations this would not be um the form form um barrel grounds and graves and that you you click on it and it will open a window up for you to um fill in details about the project you want to undertake. upload any of the documents including the motivational report letter from SAPS, the landowner permission onto that form in order to create the case.
There is a form where it gives you a submission ID that is reference you use to do the payment and once you have the proof of payment you upload it to the case before you click submit itself.
And I think that is all for today for me on my behalf. And any questions that differ from a development application 36 application for family members who just wished for themselves will be covered by RA.
Right. Thank you so much. So that's part one of the session. I'm now going to invite up to cover part two and then we'll have our Q&A on the two presentations.
Please give her a big round of applause.
Right. And can I ask get some assistance um so we don't have the same issues with the HDMI.
My apologies, colleagues. Uh, it seems like the spirits of Freedom Pug do not want me to present today.
Please bear with me.
Good day colleagues, uh, all funeral undertakers, uh, heritage practitioners, invited guests and members of the public joining us online and in person, my colleagues from Sara. Welcome everybody.
My name is Reani.
Everybody knows me as Ria. I am a heritage officer within the burial grounds and graves unit. I work under Mr. Mad and I am the permitting officer within our unit. Before I get into my presentation, I would also like to thank Miss Kumalo for presenting and for setting the foundation for our sessions discussion on permit applications relating to exumations and relocations of graves. In my presentation, I'll be focusing on exumation and relocation permit applications that fall under the legislative framework.
They're starting again.
We're back on again guys. Please bear with me. Today we work with uh yes I have already I will be presenting on exumation and relocation permit applications that fall under the legislative framework of section 36 of the national heritage resources act typically within the burial grounds graves unit. Unlike BGD, my apologies, DAU, BGD deals with nondevelopment applications. As you can see on screen, these are the objectives that I'll be aiming for. I'll be giving you an overview of the types of cases that we deal with in terms of exumations and relocations within our unit. And I'll also be looking at the different requirements that we have in terms of the different cases that we have and the processes that go with them. Within those processes and requirements, there's the consultation and public participation requirements as well. I'll be giving you information on the supporting documentation that we also require for our permit applications and I'll also be discussing the conditions commonly stipulated when permits are approved and the responsibilities of permit holders.
On top of that, I'll give you some examples of applications why they delayed, returned, and require additional information before a decision can be made.
Before discussing the various categories of exumation and relocation applications assessed by our unit, it is important to understand the legislative frame that guides decision making. A fundamental principle of heritage management is that the identification of a brave does not automatically justify its relocation.
The preferred approach is always to consider whether a grave can be protected and conserved in sichu before relocation is contemplated.
While this principle informs all heritage management decisions relating to burial grounds and graves units is most commonly applications involving exumation and relocation of graves. As such this presentation will be focusing legislative and procedural requirements associated applications.
As you can see on the screen, I have included the framework. No, there we go. Um, that we use within our unit in terms and relocations.
The NAR is one. We also have SAR permit regulations. We have SAR burial grounds and graves permitting policies.
uh and together instruments establish the procedures and requirements to exumation and relocation permit applications.
On top of this, it bear with me guys, the spirits are in the air.
But I know that both my colleagues have already stipulated a lot of information on both the acts and I too can go into but let me tell you about the most sections that actually mandate our exeumation and relocation permits. In terms of section 363, no person may without a permit issued by SAR or the authority damage move or otherwise disturb older than 60 years situated outside a formality municipal cemetery. Other applicable legislation depending on the circumstances may also be required with municipal symmetry regulations as my colleagues have said I'm not going to go into detail about it but the one point that I want to say is that the national places a responsibility on conserve and protect certain categories which they have preserved of burial grounds and graves. Consequently, relocation, alteration only proceed once the required permits have been obtained and the necessary consultation processes have been completed.
before introducing the key question.
Oh, my apologies. The thirst is getting to me because of the spirits in the building.
Before I get into my next, which is going to be dealing with the different cases that we deal with with our permit, I would like to pose this key question.
Different graves require different relocation processes. But how do we determine which processes apply?
The answer lies in the category and heritage status of the graves.
Let's examine the most common exumation cases encountered by unit. The first common one is examation.
And it's a movie.
Let me just move to the next slide.
Yeah, I was present today.
The first case that I was going to be dealing with was family It's not moving. This light is not even showing.
All right, colleagues, I do apologize. Um, please give Miss a big round of applause. Um, okay.
Yes, m yes. Yes, m Mr. Mid.
So, it happens now and then. So, I'm so sorry for the technical difficulties and apologies to you as well, colleagues.
what we've decided for the sake of time because it's now taken quite a while.
It's taken all her presentation time and it's supposed to be lunch now. Um she's going to share the presentation with everyone. As we said earlier, there's going to be outcomes. There's going to be a guideline that is formed from this and the presentations from today will be shared. So, she will just put it in a PDF and at the end of um today's session, she will share that with you.
It does have a lot of important information. um that speaks to the processes. So, it's better that you have that information on hand. But I just want to make sure that we do finish on time as well today. So, please give her a big round of applause.
All right. I'm just going to get my notes.
I'll one or two questions before we go for lunch. Um of course, there was also Sabello's presentation, but yeah, Mr. Mata Thanks. Just to perhaps um I know that uh colleagues will receive the presentation. Just to indicate that uh one of the important things that we needed to get was the uh the types of permits that you apply for. Very very important. And for you here, the exumation and relocation permit is the one that is critical and key because you will be applying to exume and relocate human remains from one point to another.
The other permit that you pro perhaps will come across as a request from families is the one of um rescue, right?
You would have to apply for a rescue permit. In other words, when human remains are exposed, a a person is extending their house and so on, um we can't it's difficult to say to the family, get a heritage specialist because they might not be able to afford it. We've had such a case in the Northwest. However, you would perhaps that's a permit that's very important which may impact you um when you are requested to assist in the rescue of um of of of human remains. So it's very very important that you you take that into into cognissance. Um and then the other points as well that relate to things that perhaps impact yourselves are the requirements that she was outlining. Um there is a payment for her uh for development applications. The payment was 5,000 but for families it's 1,200. It is standard. All right. So even if they are moving two graves it's not 1,200 per grave. it's 1,200 for the process, right? So, um yeah, so very very important. Um extensions are available in a similar manner. Say sometimes fights break out within families, right? And then there's a dispute and you are stuck there and then your permit expires while the family hasn't resolved their issues. Then there is that issue where you can also ask for an extension. So very very important. Um the other requirements are the letters from the traditional authority if you are burying outside a a formal municipality. Uh and then the letter of the land owner where you are exuming. So if it's a farm owner, the farm owner must authorize. If it's um it's under the traditional authority, they must authorize. So you need to get those letters in. Um and then of course there's the payment uh that must be done of 1,200 and then the processing can can be done. Permits are not processed before that proof of payment is submitted. And so to avoid delays because sometimes someone might say why is are there delays maybe that you perhaps have not uploaded um you know some of the documents correctly. Um I just had feedback from one of the people here in the session. She's had an interaction with Miss Sanani and she's very patient. Um I can tell you that she can take you through the process uh just for you to ensure that you are compliant. But in a nutshell um there are those compliance requirements that are still expected from the funeral undertakers in order for that permit to be issued and all this happens online.
Right? If your documents are compliant, we have no reason to hold the permit back. We absolutely have no reason to hold a permit back. Some of you who have interacted with us will know that within a week or less we can issue a permit if documents are compliant. All right. It's only when there are outstanding um documents and issues that we are unable to process it and therefore we hold back the issue with um of the Thanks. I thought I should maybe just cover those which will be covered in the notes. Um but if there are questions we are still available. Thanks.
>> Thank you so so much. Please give him a big round of applause for his second presentation today. Um but anyway, I'll take one or two questions very quickly if there are any. I think Mr. Mata covered all the very pertinent points.
Um again, the presentation will be shared. Um so that you know which types of permits to apply for any important information. So if there are any questions, I'll just allow for one or two. We've got the gentleman there very quickly.
Sorry, just a quick practical question.
We've heard the words disturb and the alteration a lot of times in this last session.
>> Does that also apply for the if I want to repair a grave like the tub fall over or grave has sunken in I to fill it up.
Does this also apply to the repair of a grave? Is that also seen as disturbance of the grave?
>> Thank you. That's a very good question.
um wants to take it. Okay, let's give some >> Yeah. Um alterations of any grace also require a permit application. I'm assuming that if it's a grave younger than 60 years, you would have um informed the municipality that workers going to be done. And I also have recent experience where we were repairing the grave um it was younger than 60 years.
We informed the municipality and the municipality knew on the day that we were coming in. But for graves older than 60 years, you'd also need to inform Sara and get a permanent application for alterations themselves. Um I haven't received much of those applications because they're generally not development related. Um but we've also had um experiences with also repairs to memorial sites themselves that are memorial graves. where you're repairing then as well that we get informed.
There's a permit application that submits a process and then that um the permit holder will be responsible for the quality of the work who's on site and who's also doing the work and that the work is being done um according to the rules and that every party is in um in informed you know every government department that works with bare grounds is informed as well.
>> Thank you so much. I'll take one more question if there are any um if you're online covered all right is there one online okay if you're online um you can please go ahead with your comment or question we can um I can't see the name but we can hear you >> can I proceed >> yes please proceed >> um again >> yes >> um regarding the significance of graves even though the subject subject may not be so much relevant. Um the the the the three criteria that we use, let's say a grade has a a local significance.
>> Can um somebody apply to a local authority for that particular grave or graveyard to be graded as uh uh grade three for example. I give thanks.
>> All right. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Um, who wants to take that? Mr. Mat.
Okay.
Yeah. Okay. You can start it and then Mr. Mat.
>> Um, definitely yes, you can. We have worked in numerous projects where we have sites that are actually locally, you know, significant within that specific location or province. Um and people actually come through and ask us to nominate and we actually let them know that you yourself are welcome to nominate a a a burial case or a a grave yourself and you go through us and then we'll help you through the process.
There's a form that you have to fill in.
You have to also be able to have um approvals from also your local municipalities um to see if they are on board because now our pros have changed in terms of grading and declarations. Now you able to prove that you'll be able to maintain and be responsible for the site in itself if it is graded to a higher you know um status. uh it needs to have like a heritage agreement in most cases which is most preferred than uh conservation management plan. But yeah, other than that um the main point that anybody is is able to actually nominate a site to be declared. You just need to be able to motivate to show us what is the significance about that site and also if it is proincially or nationally significant we need to motivate and provide evidence for that. Thank you.
>> Thank you so much. I think she covered it. Anything to add?
Yeah, just to say that I think um this speaks to a point that you raised earlier on about the sort of capacity of local authorities um you know years nominated site for it to be created locally and becomes a local heritage site as opposed to a provinial or national. Um it it is it's just that I think at the moment the challenge you raised earlier on about the incapacity of our local authorities which is something that uh certainly needs to be looked into um is something that I think can be done. Yes site can be declared as a local heritage site the legislation does support you.
>> Thank you so so much. All right I don't see any other hands in the audience as well. So colleagues, I think it's everyone's favorite part of the day.
It's lunch. Um, so if you could please just step outside, they will direct you as to where we're having lunch. It'll be 30 minutes. Um, I know it might be a bit of a walk and then we have one more session for the day. So let's go to lunch and try to get back by 3:30. I'll allow about 5 or 10 minutes um because of the Sorry, 1:30.
Not that long. 1:30 and um again we'll try to start at about 135 um 140. All right.
Okay.
All right, colleagues, let's start settling down. We'll be starting in 1 minute.
It's more than a pleasure.
>> One minute. Let's start settling down.
All right, we'll be starting shortly.
Let's start settling down.
We'll just give another minute for the colleagues to come inside.
I hope you all had a good lunch. The gentleman at the back on the left, sorry. So, what's your name? Vi. So, Villi said if you serve food like this, he'll come back every year. So, so just note the menu. same food next year. They'll all be here. All right.
Thank you so much for your participation thus far. You guys are actually such a lovely audience. Please give yourselves a round of applause.
And this brings us to our last session for today which is going to be presented by my colleague Miss Kimobeni.
And she'll be talking about compliance and consequences. All right. So there are times where um developers um sometimes the community themselves, family members etc. do not follow the legislative prescripts that were presented today. So Kim is from our heritage protection unit. They are the ones who investigate any contraventions on the NAR. Please give her a very big round of applause.
And following her session, we'll have a quick Q&A which will bring us to the conclusion for today. Over to you, Kim.
Uh thank you um program director. Uh good afternoon. Uh I promised to be very brief. Um I think we all yeah that presentation after lunch. So um yes um good good afternoon to all of you here.
My name is Kimovveni. I am the senior heritage officer within the heritage protection unit. So you can call us the heritage police um because that's basically um what we do.
Okay. So the heritage protection unit um we assist all units. We work together with the APM unit, the archaeological pelontological and neuteride unit. We also work with maritime underwater cultural heritage unit. We also work with the built environment unit beu. We also work with the heritage objects unit and more especially the burial grounds and graves unit. So the heritage protection unit um is responsible for ensuring that there is compliance and we do investigations um in conjunction with the other relative units.
So the heritage protection unit. So within the heritage protection unit, we have two divisions. One division is for grading and declarations. So we had the colleagues speaking about national heritage sites, provincial heritage sites and your local heritage sites which is your grade one, grade two and grade three. So as we know that Sarah is responsible for grading and declaring another division um which we are going to heritage inspectorate division. So the heritage inspectorate division is established in terms of section 50 of the national heritage re. So we're going to refer to the n as you have colleagues speaking we call it the n that is our bible within heritage.
So as stated in terms of the legislative framework um we are mandated by the national heritage resources act um 25 of 1999 and as part of that section 45 um allows us to issue compulsory repair orders. Section 50 we're going to outline the powers of an inspector and section 51 will be discussing the penalties thereof.
So we also work in um conjunction with the promotion of um administrative justice act to ensure that all procedures um and case decisions are fair and procedural.
We also work with the national environmental management act. As we know we are dealing with developments and there are processes that um need to be followed um in terms of the legislative framework.
So when we get into the inspe act states that a heritage in may at any time inspect work being done under a permit issued in terms of this act and for that purpose they can at all times enter into any premise um if they believe they are any violations. So my colleagues um they were referring to the processes the permit application and all of those administrative um work that is done. So um when we receive complaints um in terms of violation of the permits or any contravention we are allowed to go on site and inspect. we have those full power to inspect work being done under a permit issued by Sara.
So the key powers of once we go on site we have our inspector's card and have um permission to get in. So sometimes we do unannounced site inspections where we believe there is um a permit violation.
We also document verify. So we have the right to go to site, take pictures and evidence of what's happening on site because we know.
So sometimes it's based on tip off get that there is a violation of the permit or for example we go to site and they're telling us that um the undertakers are using um so we have to go on site and in you are not allowed to use TLBs in terms human remains we also issue directives of which I'm going to discuss in detail um based on a after every site inspection we go back to the office and if it's serious serious heritage crime that is when we get to open a case but I will get to that and then obviously we deal with compliance to ensure that when you're on site you have the necessary permit and also you because of we know that for every permit there are conditions that this is what you need to do this is the measurements, this is the buffer zones, this is what you need um in terms of the permit um condition on site to see that you have your permit to see that this is the righted undertakers um you you hired March and June comes. So we have to assess all of that work being done and also to ensure that um the appointed heritage specialist um is there to supervise at all times.
So what is a heritage contravention?
It's basically any action negatively affecting a heritage resource without the necessary approvals or permits. We heard that for um the burial grounds and graves in terms of section 36 it's 1,200 to apply for a permit and for developmental applications it's 5,000.
So you need the necessary permit um to do any works be it on site um in terms of graves, buildings or heritage objects. So um as I it works with all the units within SAR.
So uh most of the times when we receive complaints is based on unauthoriz unauthorized developments. So these are developments that are happening without following the necessary procedures, without having a heritage impact assessment, without um doing a public consultations. So um we would have to go inside and assess the situation.
We also deal with cases of damage and destruction. So in cases of vandalism, theft, grave disturbances, lack of access and demolitions.
And then we also deal with um cases of non-compliance, people who are going on site without the necessary permits or doing excavations or defacing or altering without the necessary permit. Um that is required.
Um we will share the presentation.
Yes. So um we also deal with the illegal export and we know heritage crime um relating to heritage objects it's becoming a big thing. So um it's something that we also deal with um within the heritage protection unit um in conjunction with the heritage objects unit and then willful neglect as well.
So a heritage inspector the the task and the responsibilities. So we undertake planned inspections of declared heritage resources. We respond to complaints and we facilitate their resolutions.
This is a big big um element within the heritage protection unit where we deal with communities coming with complaints.
We have to investigate as Mr. Mad was saying that you know we have families coming 20 30 years later after the case you know um the transgression has already been conducted and we have to investigate and yeah that is the main thing that we are dealing with within the heritage protection unit um responding to complaints and assessing their resolution and we work closely with the SAPS to resolve heritage crime matters and We represent SAR in heritage protection awareness programs in partnerships with stakeholders like the NHC Freedom Park.
Um now we're sitting on NAL which is a forum that deals with specifically heritage crime.
So a grave matter as today's subject um we deal with graves that are located on private property. So sometimes you buy a house um only to find out that there is a grave and sometimes um they demolish the grave without having the necessary permits or they don't know how to proceed. We had a case where um they bought a house and they literally built back rooms on top of that grave and the the lady was aware that there is a grave when she bought the house because of she was desperate then and then she knew that there was um a grave and they had said that you have to fence it and keep it in situ and um I think the families wrote to us 3 years later that when they wanted to contact um to conduct their family rituals. Um there were bedrooms.
So now we had to um get involved and there is a case going on because of there is evidence of the grave being present. Okay. So that's private property. And then we deal with graves are located on farms. This is another big issue where um farm owners just plow on top of the graves and now it's vegetation, it's growth and sometimes um there is a issue with access. So we work closely with the CRL commission in terms of um assessing the sites on farms and it's becoming problematic because of now there is um development they have built or there's plowing and they will tell you that my grandfather's grave is under that house you know and those are the types of issues that we work with with within um that we come across when we're working with farms.
Another big issue we are dealing with cases from graves on far on mines. So we know there are a lot of cases that are coming in. Um we're getting a lot of applications regarding the exumation and relocation of graves situated on mines and it's community dynamics. It's very complicated. um graves on mines.
It's not a easy issue to deal with. But I think now they are starting to understand the processes. They're starting to understand the importance of public participation because of you could realize that most of the time they actually wanted to prevent and take shortcuts and at the end of the day that shortcuts is costing them more money. So we also have graves located on escom properties spur net and roads you know sometimes when you passing you're driving through you can see some graves on the road so we also deal with those graves and there are a lot of cases that are coming in um from central and desecration of graves. So those are the graves located outside of a formal cemetery that we deal with automatically graves older than 60 years.
The enforcement and penalties inspectors act as the enforcement arm of Sara if structured advocacy or prohibition notices or if sus will fill will investigate and refer cases to court forecution.
This is under section 51 of the National Heritage Resources Act and offenses can result in penalties ranging from to imprisonment.
Okay. So other measures and mechanisms that we have in place um regarding um our site inspection. So when we go inside and we realize that there is a contravention, we would issue out what do we call a contravention notice. So a contravention notice will basically um be sent to the developer and it will outline what the contravention is because of some really don't know what SAR is. They don't know the heritage act. So we would issue say this is what you have contravened and this is what needs to be. So there will be conditions um in terms of that and then failure to comply with the contravention notice will result in legal um intervention. We also issue out cease works orders. So if we get on site and we realize that um there's no consultation.
Sorry, I'm I'm just reading the comments coming in.
There's no consultation or the graves are under threat or they have um there is a buffer and they are just not adhering to anything, we would immediately stop the works. And you know once you stop um a road construction or a development or mining, you know they start running. They start running because of they are losing money on a daily basis and they'll call you Kim Kim Kim please lift up this order people are crying the community is angry because of we have stopped the works so comply comply so we also do compulsory repair orders.
So a compulsory repair order um for example if um they are tombstones and they are damaged um we would issue out a compulsory repair order so that you have to repair it but obviously they lose the authenticity and especially when it comes to buildings and things like that.
the incred integrity gets lost but um they do try to adhere to the compulsory repair order because of it is an or a legal standing um order and then we can also withdraw a permit. So as we said if there's a permit contravention we would um withdraw the permit. So if um you are not adhering to the permit conditions, we have a right to withdraw it. Or if we keep on getting complaints from communities saying they are not aware of this project, um they have not consented, they do not know about information and relocation or just interested and affected parties coming forward. You would have to review um the permit but withdraw it and you would re you would reapply for a permit.
and fines and imprisonment. So, okay.
So, these are just a few case studies.
Um, heritage crime as we define it. Um, theft of archaeological pelontolo we know that they belong to the state or removing heritage objects from their original sites. A permit. vandalism, destruction, alteration, um removing of heritage objects, all all those conclude um heritage crime, the export of objects without a permit.
crimes that we deal with illegal esque vandalism and destruction and theft.
Okay, apologies for that graphics, but um this is the first case study uh where they were searching for Krugerg Rants and while they were searching for Kruger Rants, they exumed and those were the remains that were left on site and the case came to us and obviously is um to track them down. But it comes to heritage law, it's a bit tricky. So we have to use common law. That's how we get cases to move of that. So as I said, the heritage um protection unit of all the units.
Here we have a case study of the stiff be bronze um hands that were stolen and they were found at a scrapyard and they were sold for 190.
Yes. So, but they were arrested but uh we don't know what what transpired. I think we need to follow up.
Yes, those are some of the cases we deal with and vandalism. So, um um build environment unit, this is a national heritage site and they just decided to extend the house without a permit from Sara. So, the build environment unit obviously was affected and we issued a cease works order and also a compulsory repair order. So they were ordered to remove they had to remove that wall that extension with because need to get a necessary permit and as you can see this is um poor workmen. So you can see that this is just getting your neighbor proper architectural um planning and we know the issue of metal detectors going on site and exuming keeping this and selling them without the necessary permit from Sara.
Okay. So this is a case in um Rastenburg. That wall that you are seeing there is actually made of stones that were from graves.
So it was um illegal settlement. So they just started staying there and there were graves and they couldn't care and they took those um stones and they build a wall. I don't know how people can live with that but they do that. If you can see on the next slide, this is the tombstones and they made paving with it. So they made paving with the tombstones and you can just understand like like every day you're seeing that and you're okay, you know, you're cool, come and collect it. But those are the dynamics of heritage crime.
So the challenge awareness, but some people they do know, some don't know.
That's why it's important to have this workshops um not just for undertakers but the communities at large and also to let them know the importance of heritage because of this is their own heritage at the end of the day if melo um this um monuments that you know that Sara does the burial grounds and graves they do it they demolish it and they don't take pride in heritage so it's important to um speak on the awareness of conser preserving this heritage um resources also um and remote sites so graves. So those are the challenges that we are facing. People don't know what to do with unmarked graves. You also can't determine the age. They don't know who the graves belong to. So those are the challenges that we are facing. And also another challenge is of resources to monitor online sales. This is applicable to heritage objects unit. So we can't be online. Sometimes we get screenshots from Facebook and they were like um this is on sale on the Facebook marketplace.
Are you aware? So we'll have to contact the the seller and do our investigations. So, but not all of the time are we online to monitor those sales. Also, the lack of financial and human resources, the lack of knowledge and understanding of the heritage legislation. Most people don't know what the NAR is. They don't know what SAR is.
So, we can't blame it on ignorance, but that is the general um issue of heritage um legisl and also lawlessness. And then also as stated um the annual crime statistics that are released by SAPS have no um reference to heritage crime.
So we are trying to build cases where we open cases but when it comes to heritage crime there are no crime codes. So um I think that's what we are trying to establish so that um it has no weight.
But when you go to the police station and you saying you open a case of vandalism of theft you know that is the language they understand.
So our important element is to host workshops and public engagement. So this is to ensure that um people are aware of the startup processes that we exist.
this is the processes to follow and have such seminars you know um for departments you know DMR um you know there's so many um organizations um departments that need this workshops so how can you help online training for police officers even police officers don't know that they're heritage inspectors but section 50 says that they are heritage inspectors and um heritage outreach programs shops um to raise awareness to help prevent heritage and cultural property crime through signposting of resources including training and guidance and to bring together interested parties to identify partnerships and opportunities across heritage and law enforcement.
So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much, Kim. Please give her another big round of applause.
I think that was such a thorough presentation which um highlights the issues that we face. But I think she also raised some very important points um for those who are in the industry of the impact that you know a minor violation or or not consulting someone can have on a project. So you may be busy um on an excumation for a mining company and this project is now costing tens of millions of rands and every day that a sees works order is affected the equipment must remain on site the project is delayed that increased project costs. So I think there's there's also a lot of unintended consequences that uh people need to be aware of when working within this space.
Um I think also the work that she does um colleagues is is is quite broad because there are various units. There's built environment, you've got buildings that there's violations for which she showed. Um you've got burial grounds and graves which are vandalized. Um of course again unauthorized removals etc. You've got heritage objects which um I think some of you are aware of the Nelson Mandela objects which went for auction without a permit. That is also something which is a heritage contravention. So it's a it's a very big portfolio and I think they do a very incredible job. they are very responsive to any complaints and I think mostly with the um funeral association is that even if you encounter challenges or someone who's not being compliant, you're also welcome to raise these issues with Sara and Kim's unit. So, I'm going to open it up again um for questions and then we'll move to the closure. Um say Kim also saved us a lot of time by being very succinct with her presentation. So after this we'll move to closure but um I will open it up to the colleagues online and anyone present if you have any comments or inputs online. Okay. Um I I tried to log on so I can see if there's hands but please go ahead if you're online um we can hear you. I can't see your name unfortunately but please go ahead.
>> Yes. Hello. Good afternoon. Um, my name is Jenna Fikato. Um, working for a consultancy that does that advises clients on things heritage related um, procedures including grave examation.
So, this is more sort of a comment um and a query about the grave relocation permit process, but it's also mainly about um the permit process between SAR and the provincial heritage resource authorities because it's not clear whether the provincial heritage resource authorities that are do have the competency follow the same process as SAR or whether their processes are different.
Specifically when it comes to Amara, I'm struggling to find out how their process works. I do have a copy of their grave relocation exumation form um application form, but it doesn't answer all my questions or my clients questions about exactly what the process is um how long it takes, how their how their permitting process works together with the environmental health or the SAPS.
Um so I wanted to ask is this um is this being addressed in terms of how the different pra processes for issuing grave specifically exumation or damaging permits um how that yeah how they correlate to each other and if not is there a plan or would there be a plan to address this?
may be having um a workshop like this but where all of the bras who are competent present their processes and then various people who would be interested or would need to know would be able to attend like this one. And I wanted to also say thank you very much for organizing this workshop seminar because it has helped me a lot um or helped provide uh useful information but I think details on the provincial heritage resource authorities processes would also help. Thank you.
>> Thank you so so much. That was a wonderful comment. Um a brilliant question that you're asking and we will try to address it. There were multiple areas. Um I'm going to hand over to Kim and then Data Mida as well to respond but to say to um just to just to give you my input firstly that you are you are absolutely correct in that they they are the provinces and the national sites or resources which are administered by Sara and then we've got Western Cape Eastern Cape um you you asked about Amafa that's KZN and most recently LRA who have various levels of competency um and it is not always clear what their processes are. So with Sara everything is online but then you may get to ECRA or LRA and now you're using a paperbased system and I know that that can cause confusion especially if you're trying to be compliant or apply for a permit. So I've taken on your suggestion but let me give my colleagues an opportunity just to add we'll start with you Mr. Mata and then we'll take him if she has anything else to add. Go ahead.
on some of the points on my response. Um overall uh whether they are provincial heritage resources authorities or local authorities, the NAR, the National Heritage Resources Act is where they should find uh the basis for all of their uh regulations. I think when it comes to the sort of nuances that may happen within the provinces because they are competent and they are on the ground in the provinces, they are best able to develop regulations which are in sync with the NAR but which speak to the specific circumstance uh within the province. So uh that's where perhaps you may have those little variations because it may be responding to what it is that they are seeing on the ground in Wazuli Natal or in the Boo. Um so as long as it is not in conflict with the NAR and its regulations then um it is something that I think we we would look into and and and and accept. I think the second part is that maybe we should have such engagements where we we bring them on board so that they can then outline to the public uh in a similar way uh their own uh processes in terms of how they um in terms of how they are administering the National Heritage Resources Act section 36 in so far as what they are seeing uh in that specific province.
is going on. So I think yeah AMFA is an entity on its own fully competent and maybe there may be things that they are able to specifically respond to and I think we would interject in their response if what they are responding to uh then seriously conflicts with what we have in terms of the NAR and the regulations that have been put down.
Thanks.
>> Thank you so much Miss Kim. You're covered. All right. Um again thank you so much for your question and um we have taken your recommendation on board. I've written it down that um we need to expand this. It's not just SAR there are also provincial prescripts and we will make an effort um to have the PRA presenting as well. Um any other questions comments um can check online EP as well.
We have one more. All right. um online.
I can't see your name unfortunately, but please go ahead.
>> Can I proceed?
>> Yes, please proceed.
>> Um mine is on um limited knowledge on the NR.
I'm just wondering if um Sara has a a way of monitoring um the PR as well as the local authorities >> in terms of ensuring that we implement the the act effectively. For example, um community campaigns and public engagement. H is there a way that we can monitor these two arms of government that we engage with communities to empower them on the importance of this legislation because I would like to assume that uh majority of our police officers do not know that they can be heritage inspectors for example >> you know so that um engagement for example national departments have got what we call compulsory KPIs.
You know, I'm not sure if agencies have got those legislative powers to say, you need to perform this particular task and they are compulsory as per the legislation. I give thanks.
>> Thank you so so much. Again, I'll go first and then I'll I'll give Kim and Dr. Mata an opportunity. Um to your question about the PRA, right? Remember the pros are they apply to SAR periodically for competency and they have to demonstrate to SAR that they have the ability to fulfill what they are applying for. So for example with section 36 that's why not all the PR are competent because some of them don't have the required personnel or equipment to carry out this function. So Sara does it. um with section 35 is another one where um some some praas don't have archaeologists so Sara fulfills that function for those provincial authorities when it comes to the local authorities now this is where there's a big gap was referring to this the the devolution or the powers that are given to local authorities must come from pra they don't come from SAR so if you don't have your pra that are fully competent there is no way that there's going to be that devolution further to your local authorities. So it's a massive gap and um in fact in the whole of South Africa there's only one municipality that has ever given any heritage competency and that was the city of Cape Town. The other municipalities have never ever had any heritage competency. So it's a massive gap. Um it's something that needs to be addressed because heritage is closer to the ground. It must be managed at a local level. But um again this is the if if the praws are not fully capacitated then the the local level will also suffer. But let me bring in Dr. Marta and Kim just for further comments. Covered.
We covered. All right Kim covered. All right. Thanks. Covered. Um colleagues last last um round if there's any questions here or any comments online if or questions.
Um there were comments. We are responding to the chat as well. All right. Um colleagues, I do not see any other hands. With that, please give Miss Kim another big round of applause.
That was a wonderful presentation. Thank you so much.
Okay. So, I think we are on time and we're going to be moving towards um the closure of the session for today. Um I think we had engagement after the presentations.
So, if anyone has anything that they want to ask, any general questions, you are welcome to. But I'll just continue talking and if you raise your hand, I'll acknowledge you as well. Okay. Um so to conclude the session I'm just going to make about five announcements and then I'm going to invite Mr. Mad for closing remarks um just to end the session but um just to a quick reflection on today colleagues um we had our first presentation from Mr. Matida where he was highlighting the role of Sara. Um he spoke about section 36 specifically and he spoke about the processes that um unfold in the section 36 process a broad overview of everything. All right. And then we had Sabello and Riyle who Sablo spoke specifically about section 38.
Okay. So those are your development applications, your power lines, your roads, those that trigger section 38 and the implications of those on your burial burial grounds and grains in which a section 36 permit is required. And then um we had Ria and the tool um but she was actually getting into the specifics of what is required for these section 36 permits. It's very important information and we will get it to you at the end of this session as well. All right. And then lastly we had um Kim who spoke about the heritage protection unit contraventions violations um the penalties that are um that that apply to these violations and also the tools that SAR has in order to manage these contraventions, seize works orders, permit withdrawals and the consequences thereof.
So I think um today was the first of many sessions. Okay. Um we will number one ensure that all presentations are PDFed and shared with um all of you here today. Number two very important Mr. Mad said that the outcome of today is the guidelines. All right. So we want to have a a basically a simple toolkit that can go to the association. the associations can hand it out to their members so that if someone encounters a situation and they feel I'm not sure they can go to the toolkit but also they have access to the relevant officials in SAR to for to directly assist them with these queries. So the guidelines um will will be will be developed and shared with the funeral um undertakers association and very importantly that what has come out now is that we need to be clear about the roles of the provincial authorities. Today we've spoken about SAR you go to KZN you may hear they doing things differently so that is very important and it should form part of the guidelines as well. All right. Now, in terms of another step to explore with the funeral um undertakers association is maybe formalizing our relationship with Sara. So, we can have a formal working relationship in which you can tell us what expectations you have of us and we can say we have these expectations of you and that is just anou. It's something we can explore and maybe one of the outcomes as well from today.
And then um this particular session um with Mr. Matida when when we were planning this we thought at first I thought you're going to invite everyone the mining companies and he said no I want one stakeholder I want to start with the funeral because there's a gap we've never engaged with them and I thought it's a very important first step that he took but we are going to broaden this session um as the years go. So for now it is maybe planned to be annual but there's no reason why we can't have online engagement. All right something important comes up there's a policy change there's a legislation change there's a very controversial case and we can meet up online virtually organize a session that can happen again we'll we'll send those directives out but for now Mr. Mata has planned these sessions to be annual and next year with the same group and expanding it to other stakeholders as well. So yeah, I also said lastly that next year's session we would hope that um the funeral associ um will present to us next year as well.
So don't just be about us presenting our legislation, our processes. We also want to know what your experiences are, what maybe you want from us. Um even in terms of a policy change, a process change. So next year we will invite you to present to us. And that brings me to the end of my reflections of today. Um I think you should give yourselves a big round of applause. You've been a wonderful audience.
And I'll bring Mr. Mata just for closing remarks and then we'll move to closure.
Uh good afternoon uh everybody. Thank you so much. Uh I know that after lunch h the heads people tend to agree even when they don't agree with you.
you you see the heads nodding and you know it's the food that's nodding. But um just a couple of really heartfelt appreciation for standing up and responding to um you know to this session which is um a way of getting to know each other and creating a relationship um in terms of the of the work that we do and the work that you do. you are very important to us in terms of heritage conservation. Uh you are an important stakeholder. You might not have seen it but you are uh implementers of the legislation both directly and indirectly. And so we think that it's time that we we put our heads together so that we can see how we can serve our communities because you do a work that serves communities. we also serve communities and I think because of that I think there's there's a way in which we can find synergy in in doing that we we are available as Sara uh for any guidance assistance or queries um I think that we've collected the emails for everybody I hope you register right if you haven't please do um just leave your name your email and your contact details so that uh if we have things that would like to reach out to or if you have questions our details would be available. We will create a database of everybody that attended so that we retain this contact list um you know for the for the future coming in engagements. My email is N Mida. Let me dictate that slowly. N mad. It's one word. N M A D I D A. Please don't put a B. It's Mandela month. I don't fit those shoes. It's not N mad. It's mad.
So N mad at Sara. Sara is S A H A. All right. Not S the lady. S A H A. o rg.za.
So you can get in touch with me on that particular email and uh we will respond to whatever it is that we that that we have. Um I I will apologize to my colleagues at Freedom Park. Um it's not that we don't love them. We love them heartily and deeply. But uh the little presence that we've got uh we will just prioritize our external stakeholders and uh uh whatever's left then we can then uh relay those. So please there is just something to say thank you uh for being here uh that Miss Sane will give towards the end. But overall thank you so much. You've been a good audience.
you've asked questions um and we've tried to respond. Uh if we haven't, please get in touch with us and we will do and um really heartfelt appreciation.
Thank you very much. Thanks.
>> All right. Um so firstly, let me just give a very big thank you to Sara's burial grounds and graves unit. Please give them a big round of applause for organizing this session.
Um, we also need to give a very big thank you to Freedom Park for hosting us today at this beautiful facility.
Um, SAR's Heritage Protection Unit and Development Applications Unit. Please give them a round of applause as well.
And um, the people who you never see guys is our marketing and comm's colleagues. those guys there, please. They they make sure that things run smoothly. And lastly, I'd like to thank the funeral undertakers association and all the stakeholders who've come here today. You've taken the time to speak with us um to engage with us and to build this relationship with us. It is the first of many and I do hope to see you again either in person or virtually. Please pass ri on the way out just to receive something. And um with that said the meeting sorry there's a hand there.
Oh to myself.
All right. No thank you to me.
All right. Um the session is ajour.
Sorry ma'am. Go ahead. Yes.
Thank you so much. Please give a round of applause.
All right. So I think today is a very very important first step and um going forward I just see this relationship growing and um we our doors are open as Mr. Matita has said he's given you his contact details and we will do this annually and we will broaden it to other people in the industry. All right, with that said this session is adjourned. I hope you all have a lovely week further.
For those of you traveling, I hope you travel safe and I look forward to seeing you all next year or much sooner. Thank you colleagues.
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