Catherine Swift: Canada’s economy in a ‘nut’ shell

Added: 2026-05-26

[00:00:05]Welcome to the really big show with Jim Czech and Ian Burns.

[00:00:13]>> I'm Jim Czech with me Ian Burns with the Really Big Show and we got Katherine Swift as we come back. We just finished up our news program. We uh have a new guy on the board there so we weren't able to continue our stream but this is a brand new stream. Thank you Katherine Swift I think third time now. third time on the show with Ian and I. Thank you for joining us one more time.

[00:00:32]>> That's great. And uh we'd love to have you back time and time again.

[00:00:35]>> But uh our headline for for this show, Canada's economy in a nutshell because we put nut in there because like >> make it make sense like it just doesn't make a lot of sense as to what's going on. Koozma as we approach the the deadline here for this renegotiation and it seems weird that this CRTC decision of of increasing the streaming thing to tripling it to from 5% to 15% seems like odd timing like it just wild what why >> indeed uh I have no idea it came out of nowhere uh and the CRTC has evolved maybe devolved is a little more appropriate. Uh from a reasonably neutral regulatory agency, and I'm talking decades ago now, to a very uh intrusive um uh policy setting uh entity, which is not what it should be. Uh the government should make the rules, the CRTC should enforce them. And I've always said, frankly, in in our modern world, uh the CRTC is obsolete. It really is. so many things that it tries to do to regulate content and and the various broadcast and so on in Canada is so ineffective with the internet. You know, borders don't exist anymore in any real sense.

[00:01:58]Uh and so on. And I guess what's most aggravating about this recent thing, which really everybody's going, where did that come from? Uh, and I can only presume that anything anti-US right now is viewed as positive by a certain gullible, ill-informed portion of the Canadian population. Uh, and sadly, so we want to get get the orange man, you know, get the orange man. And this could be perceived by some Canadians as, yeah, we're nailing the Netflixes. They're all they're all foreign, you know, they're all US companies basically, the big ones anyway. Uh and and yet if you think about this at all from an economic standpoint, this will just be passed on to consumers at a time that our cost of living is already extremely high. We're still fighting out of control inflation in many respects. Gas prices are being driven very high by events in the Middle East and so on. What a bad time to crank up the tax and significantly crank up the tax on these streaming uh companies.

[00:03:00]you know, they April 1st, they increased the taxes on booze, so we can't even, you know, drink ourselves into oblivion in this ridiculous situation we're in now. We can't entertain ourselves without uh having incurring a lot more cost because this will just get right back to consumers. Don't anyone be deluded that this is going to nail Netflix or, you know, nail Apple TV or whatever it happens to be. Of course not. it'll just get passed on to us average Canadians at a time that well I don't think we'd ever need it but at a time that we certainly least need it.

[00:03:30]And this is all to promote Canadian you know the money is supposed to go into so-called Canadian content which is absurdly defined. There's I can't remember all the insane regulations around it, but there's instances where you could have 90% Canadian content like producers and directors and actors and whatever on a certain show, say, uh, for example, and it still wouldn't be considered Canadian content because of the convoluted way that they calculate what it is. So, it's it's foolish in the extreme. We have a lot of good Canadian content. It's true. We live right next door to the biggest content influencer on the planet. So that's always going to be a challenge for us. But I think there's a lot better ways we can help our domestic producers of content and and promote Canadian content without phony taxes like this which are just going to increase cost to consumers.

[00:04:20]>> And isn't this organization just irrelevant at this time? Because it's supposed to be about uh television and radio. That's what they're supposed to monitor. All of a sudden, you know, like nobody's watching television. Like I think it's a CBC has a 1.67 six, seven audience share on television and the radio stations are are you know like I mean they lost audiences and there's hard I mean there's lots of stations closing and that they're relevant in that way and then all of a sudden they say oh let's focus our attention on the internet which is not supposed to be their realm anyway and then they're going to take money from from uh everybody like out of your tax basically a tax right that you're going to end up paying creating content we've just seen them create some content there the CBC with this this other thing with that attacked institutions with the RCMP and all that create content nobody wants to watch and also it goes against Canadian content creators. We've heard from so many right now that they're saying that that YouTube is throttling their content and all kinds of stuff. Actual real Canadian creators of content, including ourselves and and and this is again propping up organizations that are dying because of just the content they put out there.

[00:05:27]>> Oh, yes. It's it's not unlike what they're doing with the media, the so-called legacy media uh at large right now is and in the in that spring uh financial update, you probably noted that another $6 billion dollar of our tax dollars is going to be put into subsidizing now it's TV, radio, etc. Because the existing several billions of dollars was mostly going to uh newspapers uh you know this hence the legacy sort of legacy newspapers. Now we are going to be subsidizing gigantic corporations like Rogers and Bell. Are you kidding? How can anybody justify that kind of garbage? Highly profitable corporations and they're both laying off employees to beat the ban partly because of technology uh and and so on. But why in I I can't imagine why we would throw six billion dollars.

[00:06:20]That's a lot of our tax dollars. We're getting rid of the snowbirds. We could double and triple the snowbirds with this garbage that we're spending on highly profitable gigantic corporations that have a protected market share in Canada. We protect the bells and the Rogers and the Tellesas and so on. We protect them with all kinds of limitations on foreign companies coming into Canada. So they've already got a hugely beneficial uh position in Canada that we keep out competitors. We have to pump another six billion into them. I I just find this incredible and how any Canadian can think that is acceptable is beyond me. It's just it just defies belief. I'm sorry. And we can't afford the snowbirds. Something that I think all Canadians are pretty darn proud of.

[00:07:03]That's just disgusting.

[00:07:04]>> Well, I think most Canadians turn to CBC and CTV for the truth, don't they?

[00:07:08]That's where they go for truth in Canada.

[00:07:11]>> No. No. They turn to your show for the truth.

[00:07:14]>> It's absolutely crazy. Absolutely crazy.

[00:07:16]>> You look at the truth or you look at the trust element there. There's been quite a few polls on on how much Canadians trust the various the CTVs, CBC's, and then and Global. And the three of them, frankly, they've all been caught lying.

[00:07:29]They've all been caught not just spinning news, but bald-faced lying. Uh remember that tape of Puv where he got, you know, they chopped it up so that it could make him say something he didn't say at all. People should have been fired, head should have over, but they never do. They never do. And the CBC, you mentioned this ridiculous so-called, I don't know, mockumentary show or whatever it's supposed to be where they literally misled people into thinking they were doing a documentary. It was kind of Boratesque without the humor, I guess, because at least Borat was funny.

[00:08:01]Uh, but really disgraceful behavior. Who thought that was a good idea? And whoever did, their heads should roll.

[00:08:07]But of course, they never do. And when there's no consequences, there's no motivation for people to actually do the right thing. So in a way uh this is a case with all of government when when you don't people make egregious errors the arrive cans the green slush funds I mean we could you know there's a very very long list and in every case massive amounts of our tax dollars were wasted but not one head ever rolls often people get promoted out of the position into a higher salary bracket. So this this is is endemic in our entire public institutions and frankly uh entities like CBC is a public institution. Let's face its main source of money is we the belleaguered taxpayer but the CTVs and globals they behave like them too. Uh and they've got privileged positions because of government fiat you know government laws that have permitted them to have a very protected market share.

[00:08:59]Um and again we wonder why we pay so much in Canada. This is one of the key reasons we're ruled by a whole bunch of oligoples where only a handful of businesses uh in occupy the entire market. Whereas in other countries, you'd at least have some competition except maybe communist countries, but we're kind of heading there. You know, a lot a lot of what the the Carne government's doing lately like with the media, buying off the media so completely uh and what they're trying to do with censorship and so on, that's the kind of stuff you'd see in communist countries.

[00:09:29]Well, the the the thing is is that they're they're funding dying animals and and if we look at Bell and CTV and then look at CBC and then look at Global, Global is the only pure media kind of play, right? Because Global is uh you know doesn't have that they like Rogers and Bell have their cell phones that kind of keep them afloat. So Global is one to look at more closely, but global if you look at the stock chart of Global when Justin Trudeau in in 2015 took over, it was like close to a $20 stock. It's three cents today.

[00:09:57]Basically, the shareholders have been wiped out and as it slid down into oblivion and they laid off 25% 25% kept laying off staff on all that. The executive still taking millions of dollars in bonuses. Like you just go read the stuff and it's, you know, because I'm a I'm a CPI. I look at that stuff and I'm just like, you shake your head. I don't even know how the reporters still would dare work for an organization that's basically fleecing them while the the executive team just stuffs their pockets and then and then they go to the government with the the hands wide open and asking for money as as they serve the interests of of a ruling party. It's just absolutely abysmal. Let you comment on that and then I'll and I'll flip you over to Ian.

[00:10:37]>> Yeah, there's there's actually been some analyses. Pet Peter Menses is great. I don't know if you've ever had Peter Menses on your show on media, but he's such an he was a vice chair of the CRTC many moons ago. He was a editor at the Calgary Herald, uh long-term, you know, experience in media and he and he speaks the truth. He he can afford to now because he's retired, I guess, and he he can't be hammered by by government. But he talks about the fact that because of the government subsidies and the governments, it's like welfare, right?

[00:11:08]It's the dole basically that they're they're giving these companies. They don't innovate at all. You're saying they're dead. They are dead. Are we going to I've always thought, are we going to bring back Blockbuster Video?

[00:11:19]Because technology passed them by uh and a lot of people lost some money that had franchises. Unfortunately, that's history and that's technology. Things get outdated. They don't have a market anymore. And yet, here we are propping up with precious taxpayer dollars that could go to so many better uses. We're propping up these antiquated ancient models and because they're being propped up, they're not making any effort to innovate. So ultimately, I think it just prolongs the agony. They're going to die eventually because there isn't a market for what they're doing. They haven't adapted. They haven't figured out what to do because they're they're of course they're losing advertising revenue like mad uh to the the basically streaming services, the internet based uh uh and so on, the Facebooks and so on. and um uh they're not going to get that back.

[00:12:09]That's not going to happen. They're going to have to figure out a totally new model or just die like the Blockbuster videos did. Uh because that's what happens. But to prop them up endlessly with tax dollars doesn't really serve anybody in the long run. In the short run, it does. But in in a in a way, the most pernicious effect of this for our country has been that any decent democratic country needs a reasonably balanced media. I don't think we could ever every human has their bias. I don't think we could ever think we're going to have a totally objective media as we couldn't expect to have a totally objective anything in reality. But we have a media now I call them the liberal poodles. They are just kissing liberal rump constantly. They will they they lie about you think Pierre Palev was in government because of the criticism of him. It's laughable. There's way more criticism of him. Well, there's virtually no criticism of of Carney and his cronies. Uh, and how does that serve the country? It's terrible. It swings elections. There's the whole elbows up gang out there which which believe things that are just so alien from the truth. It's hard to believe anybody it with a any sense of logic could buy into them. Uh, and and yet and it's swinging elections in Canada to our detriment. I have yet to see Carney do anything useful for Canada. He's made a lot of announcements. spend a pot full of our money on nutty nutty things uh like the media bailouts and the so-called decarbonized oil, which is water that isn't wet. You know, that that's just an absurd absurd concept uh that he's trying to pretend and he knows darn well it's it's stupid. Uh in any case, you know, when when so much money is being wasted, our country's in so much trouble economically, we still see economic indicators going downhill, nothing's turned around at all. uh then h how do we justify this and how do we justify the seeming support this government has unless it's not true which I think is a fair bit of the story I think a lot of the polls and stuff are very highly questionable I really do >> Ian um we talk about igopies and things like that um and a lack of a free market basically is to to sum it up as a as an economic expert maybe you can provide some insight here. But Mark Carney, I don't know if you've read Values, but the first part of Values is Mark Carney talking about how great the free market is. He talks about Adam Smith in glowing terms. Adam Smith like the the sort of founder of capitalism as we know it.

[00:14:42]Basically, he really seems to admire him. Talks about uh Joseph Champeda. He talks about Ricardo, you know, it's the whole it's all of the great economists who sort of pioneered the free market.

[00:14:55]His um doctoral thesis was titled the dynamic advantage of competition.

[00:15:02]How is it possible that a man about whom all of what I just said is true could oversee this the Canadian economy which is not not really very free market is it? It doesn't it doesn't seem like it to me anyway. No, it's not. And we can't blame him for this has been the case for a long time before Carney that we have had and and there's a lot of reasons for it.

[00:15:24]If you sort of look historically, uh we were we to despite many governments attempts to do otherwise, we're still a natural resource economy in many many ways. Uh unfortunately current factors uh governments making us uncompetitive, silliness like trying to do decarbonized oil or whatever are making us less competitive. Uh and and so that that makes our sort of concentration of wealth in the hands of the few even worse than it already is.

[00:15:54]So you can't really blame Carney for this oligopoly dominated economy that we're talking about here. Many governments have to take some responsibility for that one and not just liberals. It goes back right through different, you know, different government partisan hands and so on. And like I say, part of it is being a branch plan economy of the US. Much of our uh, you know, a lot of our major sectors have a a a very key US element to them or a a key trade related element. Auto sector being a very logical example of that. Um but it was always deemed that we had a small a small export uh a small open economy as they refer to it. So lots of exports, lots of imports. Um and and that's very true. We are but instead of promoting competition, we have protected the inefficient oligopouloolis which of course just makes us more inefficient. Uh they're getting a premium. There's reasons. We pay the highest cell phone charges in the practically in the world. Uh even has better deals than we do and that and they're a pretty bogged economy with over government regulation and on and on and on. Um so you know there's a lot of historical reasons for it decisions that many governments have made but it is not a it's not a a good structure for your average Canadian because it means we pay more we have less competition and we get we get poorer services too because again if you're not incented to do something you're not going to do it. uh and the the only true I mean my career has been largely spent with the small medium-sized business sector and that is more or less a fairly competitive part of the Canadian economy. Well, one thing that worries me right now and a lot of things worry me right now about the Canadian economy is that we're decimating our small and medium-sized business sector right now. Manufacturers are leaving. We've talked about this before on your show. Um young uh talented uh entrepreneurs are leaving uh largely for the US. uh our manufacturing sector is shrinking. That is not positive because manufacturing is a source of innovation, productivity gain and we know productivity just sucks in Canada right now is continuing to go south in more ways than one I guess to go bad and to go to the US. So for all these reasons we're killing the the sector of the economy smallmediumsized business which typically represents roughly half of our gross domestic product. It's a pretty big hunk if you, you know, put it all together. But of course, and this is particularly true with the Carne government, the big guys get the attention. The big guys get the subsidies. The big guys get the tax breaks, the particular little edge in a given market that that they seek as they lobby governments and and so on. And over time, that's quite damaging. The other thing on import which is important about a small business sector is it's a it's a very key portion of a healthy uh democracy as well. And I see our country getting less democratic and I think that's going hand in hand with the shrinkage of our smallmediumsized business sector. So there's there's so many factors that are affecting it here.

[00:18:57]Um but we're not ending up in a good place right now and and things like an uncompetitive tax system that's we we know we're regulated overregulated by both federal, provincial and municipal governments in this country. There's tons of examples of that which is why we don't have housing for example being being created like it should be. um and and what Carney's done with bills like C5, which basically keeps all these bad intrusive laws in place that affect uh the energy sector, manufacturing, and so on. But he gives himself and his cabinet the right to override them when they feel like it. Like a foreign investor looking at going, "Oh, if they if they in a good mood that day, they're going to approve this project. Don't think I'm going to put a whacking pile of money into that uh particular system." So, there's a lot going on here. We can't blame Carney for the oligopoly thing, but he certainly isn't diminishing it any in it. If anything, he's increasing it uh by favoring the large corporate and they're crony capitalists, too.

[00:19:54]They're they're not they're not operating in in competitive markets.

[00:19:57]They're happy to take government money, our money. More money just went to uh uh autos auto, I think it was GM, to make uh to make um uh not electric vehicles, but to make good old gasoline uh powered trucks. uh half almost half a billion dollars. That industry sucks up tax dollars every few years and large proportions of it as well. So Carney doesn't really have for all his so-called reputation and everything he's not improving anything. He seems to be heading down the same road. And don't forget he also quoted Marks and Engles in his book not simply the Shumpeters and the you know the the Adam Smiths and and those guys. So I think Carney, it's interesting and I I've met the guy in the past when he was Bank of Canada governor numerous times, but he seems to really like to suck and blow at the same time. He he'll say one thing, but he'll do quite another. Uh and and for example, in the in the election in April last year, we heard him say that China was our biggest security threat. Well, here we are cozying up to China. What happened to that? And that was in a very short period of time. Suddenly 180°ree reversal on China. And we can find a bunch of other examples of that. So, it seems what he says um isn't really what he's thinking. Uh or he's so confused, which I'd like to think that there at least is a plan here that we should know about. Um uh so confused that he doesn't know what he's doing, which is I don't know if that's more worrisome or less worrisome to be honest with you.

[00:21:27]>> Yeah. I mean, we've been pointing that out about the difference between what he says and what he does. I mean there are so many examples talking about China as well like he insisted that they would he would still be pushing human rights and things like that then goes to China doesn't mention it lies about having mentioned it it's later comes out that he didn't and then the Michael Mah fiasco I mean that for me I thought I sort of understood the man but then when that happened I I I don't know it's a it's a different element to him but on the maybe this is a harder question on the other side is there anything that he's done so far that you think is is good and positive? Like is there any So you won the 2025 election, beat the Conservatives. Is anything better now than it would have been had the Conservatives won, do you think? And that's a serious question, like if there really is anything that any positives.

[00:22:22]>> Yeah. Well, like I say, I want the best for Canada. I think most Canadians do. if you don't, you're a masochist or something something really wrong between the years there. Uh, and I was hopeful at least. I mean, he does have experience internationally and so on. Um, but I've come to wonder how much he really has on the ground economic experience like certainly small medium-sized businesses. Zippo, he he has no appreciation of that sector. Uh, and that's a problem for any economy, but but notably Canada, where we used to have a pretty robust smallmedium-sized business sector, and it was positive. It was overwhelmingly positive for Canada to have that uh healthy small business sector. Um, I was hopeful about the military thing in terms of increased spending. I I thought that the our poor military has been starved for decades and a pox on all their houses. There's no one government you can blame more than another. I think they've all been pretty bad. And of course the reason is we always depended on the US. We always knew the US would come to our rescue if we truly needed military you know heft.

[00:23:28]Um and when I heard the increased spending and it was of course pressure because of the NATO you know the NATO thresholds and all that but I thought good good our our military deserves this richly. But then we found out that a lot of it came from reclassifications like putting Coast Guard they took it from under the fisheries department and put it under defense. Well that was a few billion dollars. So that was a pretty big chunk of change. They increased salaries which again I totally was supportive of that for military people.

[00:23:56]Um and but then and then recently we see they're they're calling back equipment and they're doing absurd things that make no sense if they're really spending more money in the military. So once again it's this mixed messages. So initially I was I thought good about time we you know we saw some real investment here. But it seems to be more tricks of accounting than it does um true increased spending. And yet they have billions and billions of dollars to spend on whackadoodle proposals in other countries that will not will do nothing but buy a new Rolls-Royce for the despot that rules that country. Because that's exactly what happens with foreign aid.

[00:24:34]Foreign aid is such a roose. It just blows my mind. I've seen so many examples of how the the average person never gets a dime of it. bureaucrats in charge, the whoever the, you know, whoever the president or prime minister, whatever is lines their own pockets and so on. So, there's very little I've seen that's positive to be honest with you.

[00:24:53]Uh, economically, they keep talking about investment. You know, he's seeking investment. They should be. We've lost a ton of investment over the Trudeau years because of mismanagement, government mismanagement. Um, and yet, uh, the the the rubber hasn't hit the road yet. We haven't seen the proof. We've seen a lot of talk um we're talking about being an energy superpower and yet this recent with the dealing with Danielle Smith and and and and Ottawa and so on has so many conditions attached to it you really have to wonder if it's ever going to happen and even even if we accept it as is okay we'll accept it at take it at you know at face value a shovel isn't going to hit the ground until at least 2027 or later and other countries are building entire pipelines in that period of time. Building entire pipelines in two years. Whereas we're saying, oh, a year it needs approval and then the government has to decide to prioritize it as a major project and then it has to go through this assessment and then it has to go through the, you know, the whole First Nations rigomearroll and so on. I don't think we're ever going to see that pipeline. I think there's a lot more promise. Uh, it's funny because after all Carney's comments about approving projects in, you know, speed we've never seen before. It seems Trump is approving pipelines with speed we have never seen before because he's approved basically the extension of what was going to be Keystone back in the day before Biden put the kaibos on that. So, uh, I think there's a lot more promise and I again Danielle may well be thinking of this and as you know she was a former colleague of mine so I know Danielle quite well. Um, she uh I think going through the states is is a lot much more promising alternative uh or at least add-on, maybe not alternative.

[00:26:39]She's got to pursue the one in Canada. I I don't blame her for that. She's got to pursue it even with all these ludicrous conditions. But looking to these US uh routes that have already been approved that can go to a coast in the US and then go overseas, even though it won't it won't yield as much value for Canada like that because we'll have to go through the US and you know deal with all the infrastructure accordingly. But I think uh it's more I think it's more li viable that that's gonna happen.

[00:27:05]>> Uh well, you've you mentioned Daniel Smith, so I'm gonna I'm gonna have to ask you a question about Alberta now, and then I'll pass you over to Jim. Um something that I've I've been monitoring you. Obviously, you're going to know loads better than me, but I've been I've been monitoring the situation. It seems to me that Danielle Smith being wily as she is has seen the lay of the land, seen how you get things in Canada, looks at which which province I mean you can even ask an AI chatbot thing you can in a very neutral way and say who gets the best deal in Canada like which province right away say give me a one-word response it's Quebec obviously I mean even even a computer can see that we can all see that why does he get I mean there are many historical reasons But one of the reasons, possibly the main reason is that they always threaten now and or now and then they threaten to leave. There's a bit of threat, isn't there? And I my impression is that Danielle Smith has seen that and she's kind of trying to she's trying to ride this wave a little bit >> to to for the betterment of Alberta so Alberta can get a a better deal.

[00:28:09]>> Um but I I certainly think anyway she's because she's being criticized quite intensely now. I feel like she's she's got a plan. I do think that she she's being smart, but I just wanted to see what your impression is of that.

[00:28:22]>> She's got Danielle's got a big challenge. Danielle really does truly love Alberta. I know that. So, if anybody doubts that, you're wrong.

[00:28:29]Sorry. You're wrong. I know the woman quite well personally. And she got back into politics after her rather, you know, rocky time with the Wild Rose and and all that stuff happened. Uh but and I remember talking to her about it actually at the time and she said she said I really feel uh I want to try to do something for Alberta. Um and that was her main motivation. She likes politics too. I mean there was no question she she saw you know she she did see a future for herself in politics. But she's got a fairly significant chunk of her party who are uh if not separatists uh they're highly dubious uh members of the Canadian Federation, shall we say?

[00:29:14]So there's and they're not insignificant. It was two or 3% you'd go eh ignore them, ignore them. But politically, she is not able to do that.

[00:29:21]Now she's getting roundly criticized for this referendum of on a referendum which is kind of interesting in and of itself.

[00:29:28]Uh but and I and I don't I I find it I don't know what the right adjective is.

[00:29:35]I just find it uh ridiculous in the extreme that we have all these Canadians criticizing Daniel Smith who's trying to walk a very challenging tightroppe trying to do the right thing for Alberta. Uh she's called a traitor which is just a croc. That's just utterly ridiculous. But she's been called that.

[00:29:52]Uh she's she's um got factions in her party that are problematic. And then she's got now Nenshi as a as a uh an opposition leader. And then his mind you not covering himself with any glory lately. Uh anyway, and his his time at the Calgary mayor was not particularly commendable. So So hopefully Albertans will have good memories on on that one.

[00:30:14]Um, but I just see her as as having a really rough, you know, having a really it's not her creation, but I think she's having a really challenging time trying to at least mllify all these different factions and saying, "Oh, she she wants a referendum." No, she doesn't. She does not want a referendum. If anybody's paying attention, Danielle has said very clearly, "I want Alberta to stay in Canada. I want more sovereignty for Alberta," which is exactly what Quebec did. They have their own immigration system. They have their, you know, their own uh pension plan and the QPP. They have, you know, they did all that. And I'm not saying that necessarily Alberta would want that, but that's the kind of thing she wants more control over her own domain. Don't blame her. We've had governments under Trudeau and now Carney who regularly interfere with provincial jurisdiction. Carney announced a big electricity strategy lately. Electricity is provincial jurisdiction. There's no doubt about that in the constitution. So they're still and and Danielle and in some instances Scott Mo in in Saskatchewan have taken cases to court and won against the federal government because they are intruding. So I think this needs some clarity for sure and good on her for sticking up. She's sticking up for all provinces. This is the other irony I find with other provinces taking pot shots at her which is cheap cheap thrills at the best. uh they're she's protecting all provincial rights and jurisdictions by doing this and by taking it to the courts and so on and they should appreciate that not be critical. But once again, I think we we've got this this uh US hatred right now which is just driving so many so many parts of of Canada's political leanings. Danielle has gone to the States, it was a while ago now as we know, but met with Trump and so on. She was roundly criticized for that. And yet we don't have a trade deal with the US.

[00:32:02]We hear constantly from our members, our business members, our manufacturers and so on that they they desperately need a trade agreement. They need certainty is what they need. And we don't have it right now. And shame on Carney. He he ran on two things really. He was the best guy to negotiate with Trump and he was going to get a deal for Canada last July. He was going to get a deal for Canada almost a year ago. Well, we got nothing. And now an awful and I meet with US officials as well as Canadian officials. I meeting with some Canadian embassy in Washington people just last week. Uh and we hear from the Americans, the Canadians aren't negotiating.

[00:32:38]They're what they're doing is they're putting forward proposals that are so silly. They know the US is going to reject them. So they can kind of pretend to be negotiating, but they're not really negotiating. Uh so there's a lot of skull duggery going on with this whole Canada US trade deal. Uh I believe for political advantage because enough Canadians have been conned that we can you know trade with other countries and so on. No we can't. We can sure we can expand our trading relationships. Never a bad thing but if anybody thinks we're going to come even remotely close to doubling our trade with other countries mind you that's that's not really a lot when you look at Europe about 4% of our trades with Europe. It's it's I guess not that huge to double it really but we still won't be anywhere near far away from the US. So, I feel I feel and maybe it's cuz I do know Danielle pretty well.

[00:33:25]I I feel bad for her. I think she's trying to juggle a whole lot of balls, having a terrible time doing it. People in her own party aren't helping her.

[00:33:33]They're they're out there with rangy statements and, you know, extreme statements and so on. Uh and and uh she's she's got a real challenge right now. And for other for other premers and and Canadians to be taking shots at her, I think is just cheap and underhanded.

[00:33:52]you uh I'm going to take you back to Ian's question there um on what Carney's accomplished and and I look and I and I I see one thing he has done and um and I just want to make a point here first like lots of times when people win elections when you switch from NDP to to conservative or conservative to liberal and stuff like that it's tough for the new government when you come in to fight the bureaucracy that's in place you know what I mean like there's the bureaucrats and I think Mark Carney is the ultimate bureaucrat. He's what he has done since he's come in is created more um crown corporations, more bureaucrats, more offices and and and made this um bureaucracy a lot tougher to do to get through. And he's also used crisis to do it. Like he's used the crisis with the trade deal. Oh, we got to do this because we're in a moment of crisis.

[00:34:41]This is the worst time ever. So, we got to create this. Bill C5 has given extraordinary powers to one person to decide who gets to go through the door, who doesn't get to go through the door.

[00:34:51]So the bureaucrats win or globalists or whatever you want to call it because there's a a level of government, the bureaucrats that kind of run everything no matter who's in power. Even if Pier Polyv wins government at some point, if the bureaucracy is so ingrained and thick in there, it's really hard to make changes unless you're willing to like Trump. Like look at when Trump won. Look at all the stuff that he they push back push back how hard he had to fight to get a lot of his stuff through the bureaucracy. So I think if I look at what Carney's accomplished, he's made the bureaucracy even more serving towards one party. And if you look at the media, he's compromised the media.

[00:35:29]He's given billions of dollars and the media clearly works for one party. So the bureaucracy is tilted heavily towards one ruling party. Even if they're not in power, they remain in power. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

[00:35:43]>> Yeah. No, actually it's that has always been the case. Liberals of course in Canada have been in power much many more years than conservatives have if you compare you know the two over the years and the bureaucracy has responded by um uh leaning liberal big time. Um I actually one of my first jobs as an economist was in the federal government back in the 70s if you can believe it. I hated it out of there. But I spent a few years there and it was very instructive about how dysfunctional our federal government. And by the way, not just federal, it applies to all levels of government. Um, and a lot of it just gets back to what I said earlier about accountability. When there's no accountability, when there's no consequences for being stupid, for not knowing your job, you're not going to do it. It's very sad. And there are good people, of course, but overall the system does not promote that. And that has become worse over time. Jim, I I I absolutely agree. uh it's more and more liberal. We now see it that entities like the privy council office uh we saw during during the um Trudeau's uh Trudeau's lab scam so-called you know times when he was trying to pressure Jod Wilson Rayold and she good on her she stood up for Yep. she did the right thing he did the very wrong thing of course no consequences for him. um we saw the clerk of the privy council at the time come out and behave like a liberal party member and and I said well there's a there's a pretty good example right there we see inst institutions in general you want to talk about the CRTC's or the crown corporations or whatever um all the same Carney has said oh our government's too big which is absolutely true and has talked about downsizing it and yet uh we haven't seen that happen once again the talk and the action they are not the same thing. Uh he's created all these new entities as you said. Um the the house the that housing thing uh fund whatever it we don't even know what these things are doing but they're all taking on more debt is what they're doing. We've had the recent um so-called sovereignty wealth fund which which I call the sovereignty stealth slush fund because that's what it is. Uh and of course it's not wealth at all. It's debt. We all know it's been created just with more debt than is something we really badly need in Canada right now. uh and we're not sure what it's going to do. What and and it was very unclear. Even even me even some of the mainstream media who normally, you know, are are bowing down to to Carney at all. Even some of them said that did they just cook this one up last night before they announced the spring uh before the spring financial update because there was absolutely no detail of what the heck it was supposed to be. But you can be sure it'll be have a very highly paid CEO and a bunch of other executives on our dime. It'll it'll have a a whole bureaucracy built around it to operate. And what whatever happened, we had a Canada Growth Fund.

[00:38:37]We had the Canada Infrastructure Bank.

[00:38:40]We've had all these other entities that have been created, none of them have done much other than pay a liberal friend very, very generously to be the CEO or to be the executive. The Green Slush Fund there was a classic. uh all these people on the board uh lending money or granting money to their own businesses. And of course Trudeau shut down that uh parliamentary committee looking into that. And that's that's that leads to another thing about Carney that that bothers me a lot. Once he's got this majority, he's been highly secretive. He shut down committees completely. The ethics committee, hey, there's a surprise. The ethics committee totally shut down. If we had any proper ethics uh entity in Canada, they would have taken Carney to the cleaners ages ago. He has conflicts galore. Absolutely ridiculous. when we see Brookfield connected with practically everything he does and that was actually speaking of speaking of the um so-called sovereign wealth fund you probably know this but back in 2024 Carney proposed to Trudeau who was still prime minister then a very similar looking fund that Brookfield could manage so we we need to keep a very keen eye on Brookfield and who's going to and when Carney was asked in various scrums who uh was going to manage this sovereign wealth fund he is very evasive. So the evasiveness, the secretiveness, they say one thing and do another. The blatant lies, the lies that are easily disproven. I, you know, if you're a really good liar, you can get away with it for a while. But some of them are like just so easily disproven.

[00:40:15]I think talking about I mentioned the decarbonized oil earlier. Talking about that commanding a premium on world energy markets, that's total BS. I'm sorry. That is total BS that it'll never happen. It's never going to happen. and and yet he's glibly talking about that.

[00:40:31]Anyway, we can find tons of examples of him just being absolutely dishonest with Canadians. So, this this uh this whole secrecy business, making government even bigger, uh shutting down committees, which is the only place we ever we Canadians ever hear about where our money is being spent and how it needs to and and the problems are that are happening with the billions and billions and mega trillions these days that we we give governments. So this this whole scenario makes me extremely nervous because if you haven't got anything to hide, you wouldn't be working so hard to hide what you're doing.

[00:41:03]>> Ian's our historian on the show here and I'm going to I'm going to make a reference to something. There was a one really massive bureaucracy in the world and that uh the people inside it did really well. The bureaucrats did extremely well. The people suffered immensely. They controlled the media.

[00:41:19]They controlled the messaging. They basically told lies and and they did very well uh themselves like and then the pull-up bureau and I wouldn't say the Soviet Union. I mean they they they would basically get nothing done. the people standing in line for bread and potatoes and that kind of like here in food bank lineups and they just and it's just you control the media control the messaging and it was a very successful model until it didn't work is >> for a while is I don't know Ian if you want to jump in there but the Soviet Union was the ultimate bureaucracy I think >> well I mean I'm Cath Katherine probably knows much or more than me but I would I would just add that I'm not the only one to have um said that many people have said that including some quite prominent historians like Neil Ferguson who refers to the west or has in the past referred to the west as like the latestage Soviet Union where it's kind of becoming bogged down in bureaucracy incapacity an inability to innovate and get itself out of its own um you know the the traps it set for itself. Yeah, I assume I assume you know far more about this Katherine.

[00:42:30]I'll let you speak.

[00:42:32]>> Well, I'm not a historian, but but I certainly uh have uh I'm certainly interested in following particularly economic history because that is my thing. But but I guess some of the really disappointing things in Canada right now is how history is being so poorly taught if at all in our school system because so much history and like they say, if you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it. And yet the fact that socialism keeps raising its ugly little snout uh to to anyone and and we see surveys that say something like I don't know a majority of young people for example think socialism would be great. I say hey why don't you go down to Venezuela for a few weeks and see how that suits you. Uh but uh it is it is it is so ridiculous and and I I I like Neil Ferguson a lot. I find him a pretty smart cookie. Um and and he he does talk indeed about that and you do see I was I was not joking when I was talking earlier about these are all attributes or not positive ones of uh a communist system control of the media control of the messaging lying to the people. A lot of it's 1984 George Orwell we've talked about that but but what George Orwell was doing was was criticizing the the collectivist communist societies and the ones the ones inside the tent always do very well in Canada over time there has been your average bureaucrat is paid uh if you include benefits because pensions are a big part of it uh if you include benefits they're paid anywhere from 25 to 40% more than their private sector counting counterpart doing the same job.

[00:44:07]They retire earlier. They work fewer hours uh in an average week. They take more holidays. They take more sick days.

[00:44:13]They abuse sick days basically because there's a prepoundonderance of sick days taken on Mondays and Fridays. Oh, isn't that odd? What a coincidence. Um anyway, things like that. And there's been tons of research done on this. This isn't my, you know, subjective opinion. There's been a ton of research done on this. And of course, the bigger government gets, the more the burden on the private sector that is actually creating productivity and wealth. And that's one of our key problems in Canada right now.

[00:44:38]We've got this ginormous government that's costing us a fortune. Uh businesses lose employees to government because they go, "Geez, I could make X dollars more money, get this fat pension. Uh why shouldn't I go to government?" So government competes with the private sector. They they they impose their costs on the private sector and therefore weaken the ability of the productive part of our economy to do its job. And that's what's happening in Canada. It's happening to a lesser degree in the US. US has a different system. In Canada, we we we hire a bureaucrat and and they're there no matter what the change in government is.

[00:45:11]In the US, a lot of senior ones are appointed. So, they can actually a new government can actually come in and clean house. There's there's a certain amount they can do that in Canada, but it's nowhere near to the same degree.

[00:45:23]So, it's true that the an incoming, say, Conservative government federally would be stuck with all these Liberals. And don't forget too, unionization of the public sector was a huge mistake because of course unions want as much money as they can possibly suck out of the rest of us. And they want the most days off, the shortest working hours that basically they're a Paul on they're a pox on productivity because everything they do is a drag on on productivity of an economy. And permitting the the government to unionize a a government that doesn't have competition in its various services it provides is just is just a recipe for dis. We've seen the disaster now. And of course, you're a government employee. How they're going to vote? They like big government because hey, if you make cuts in government, that might mean my job will go, you know, go away. So, they like big government. So, they're going to tend to vote liberal as well because the liberal government is the big government uh supporter. So, there's all kinds of implications in that. But, you're right.

[00:46:19]our institutions, our universities, too.

[00:46:22]Our universities have been have been liberalized in it with a capital L much more so than they ever were before. And teaching teaching young people that the woke agenda and and some pe some young people that have a conservative leaning, they I I've talked to young kids that say, "I don't even voice my opinion in the classroom because I know I'll be punished for it. I'll be docked marks for saying I disagree with that socialist concept that you're trying to promote there." I mean that's not teaching people to function in the world. They it's not teaching our young people to to how to be productive members of a future society, workforce, entrepreneur, entrepreneurial sector or whatever it happens to be. So yes, it's been poisoned badly and that is going to be her. You can change government, but that's going to take a long time to change if it ever.

[00:47:09]>> I got I got one final question for you if I turn you back to Ian. Um, you mentioned Koosma and and them kind of like playing a game with Koozma. Do you think it's in they're intentionally kind of like uh creating this crisis with Koosma so they can get more powers? You you create a crisis and you say I need these powers so that we can fight against this and and because you know like we've been heavily reliant on the United States. Is this crisis being created intentionally so that they can you know like obviously it works out to their polling numbers but is it also benefiting them and creating these these powers and then you know selling our assets we won't use our own oil to to you know like have surpluses so we allow other foreign nations to buy our assets.

[00:47:52]It just seems like the the wholesale of Canada in this manufactured crisis.

[00:47:58]>> Yeah. Well, the the investment numbers, a lot of Liberals were were crowing about the investment numbers increasing in uh 2025 last year. And they were right. They did. But if you look at what actually they were investing in, they weren't new facilities, new businesses, new mines, new whatever they were buying up. And they were mostly US buying up Canadian companies. I can partly because of a low dollar, partly because Canadian companies wanted to sell their firm because their outlook was so abysmal.

[00:48:28]And what I can see happening too is a U this is this has been happening for ages and it es and flows but a US competitor will buy up their Canadian count the one that's competing with them in Canada shut down the Canadian company and then keep their operation in the US. So suddenly they've just killed one of their sources of competition in the marketplace. So I would bet serious money that's exactly what's going to be happening. So this crowing about the investment hold on people you have to look at where the investment happened and it was not good for Canada and also it's not product you just buy up an existing company even if you keep it operating that doesn't add to Canada's productivity it's not it's not really a positive it's just a change of ownership of the same you know the same thing basically so that's that's not really a benefit as for I I am starting to believe it has to be deliberate uh because again orange man bad is dominating the thoughts of so many Canadians who seem to have very short-term thinking. Uh, and it's unfortunate. Uh, I wonder what they're going to do when when Trump's gone.

[00:49:27]Actually, the one thing too that I don't think gets discussed enough is that do do Canadians really think if say a Democrat wins the next election and who knows who knows what's going to happen with the US over the next few years. And it's a it's a big worry obviously for Canada. No matter what you say, we are so integrated with that market that's not going to be unwound in decades, let alone a few years. Uh, in any event, say a Democrat wins, Democrats typically are highly protectionist. Do you think they're going to get rid of tariffs? No, they're not. And so the notion that once Trump's gone, all our problems go away is is baloney. It's just not the case.

[00:50:04]And so I don't I don't really understand the Canadian government strategy because we're hearing from business and it's not good. They they are desperate. It's not overstating the case. They are in big trouble. They're all talking to each other saying, "What are we going to do?

[00:50:18]Uh these are successful businesses that have done well for decades often. Um and and it it is because this has dragged on now for as long as it has. The lack of certainty of their trading relationships with the US and US businesses aren't happy either by the way. They would much prefer a a more state and and and we do so much trade with the US. all these businesses, they know their US trading partners and their and their US suppliers and and vice versa, you know, and and and to to treat them as the enemy is just just inaccurate in the extreme. They want a deal as well. And and so we're just seeing we're just seeing chaos really that is created.

[00:50:54]Yeah. That has been created. And Carney has has he I don't think he's called withdrew on any of his key promises that he actually said he'd do. In fact, he's done the reverse. So, we need a deal. We have a July 1st deadline coming up.

[00:51:06]Canada Day. Hey, isn't that wonderful?

[00:51:08]Um, so we'll see if anything's done in the interim, but what we hear from the US, both businesses and uh people in the bureaucracy and in the administration and so on, is that Canada is not seemingly interested in getting a deal right now.

[00:51:24]>> Ian.

[00:51:25]>> Yeah.

[00:51:27]>> Okay. I've got I've got a couple. Try and sneak a couple in. Um, one of your recent articles that you wrote was titled EU no thanks and it was about the kind of flirtation which is surreal for me coming as I do from that continent.

[00:51:45]It's very strange to to watch it unfold.

[00:51:48]But it's this strange flotation by the Canadian establishment led by the Liberal Party, I think it's fair to say, and the European Union establishment, the elites, they're very friendly with one another, aren't they? But then a couple of the polls that have come out suggesting that a plurality or even a majority of Canadians would like to join the European Union. I just want to know what do you think about that? I mean, one of the things that in that article like you say is Canadians obviously know nothing about the European Union, which is something that I've pointed out. They really don't know the I don't think they know even the first thing. I think they probably think like it's a version of Koozma or something. They don't understand what it actually is. But I'm interested what you think of that. And also what's the play from what's the strategy from Mark Carney here? Is he trying to kind of make make his old girlfriend jealous by getting a new girlfriend and that's it? He doesn't actually really want the European Union or what what is it? What's his what's his strategy?

[00:52:43]Carney Carney's Carney's always he considers himself a European. He said, you probably remember it was a widely cited quote where he was in at some convention or you know Bunfest over in Europe somewhere and and he said to the people on the panel with him, "Oh, I'm a European." "Oh, I thought you were a Canadian." "No, no, I'm a European." And what a weird thing to say. Granted, he spent a fair bit of his career out of Canada. So I perhaps he feels he's more more of the Europe Europe than us.

[00:53:12]Sometimes he almost talks down to Canada, too. I remember he was in Paris for some big winging of a meeting and someone asked him, "Oh, how's how is it to be in Paris?" He said, "Well, at least I'll get a decent meal here." And I thought, boy, if you were a restaurant owner in Ottawa, I I'd be insulted.

[00:53:29]That's a kick in the head. uh things that seem I think sometimes he thinks Canada's beneath him and there's some evolved entities in Europe that he really belongs with more because you know you talk about the EU push being a liberal thing. I think it's a Carney thing. It wasn't around before Carney. I mean sure it's not not to say that some politicians might not have liked certain parts of Europe and so on and because they are a more socialistleaning entity than the US is that there might be some common ground there but the the EU actually joining and you know the EU charter doesn't permit anybody not in Europe to join it. So they would have to change their charter and it's kind of like our constitution, you know, which I always it's like the hotel California, you can check out anytime you want, but you could never leave. And that's exactly what the EU charter is like.

[00:54:20]It's horrendously hard to change. You need the permission of every, you know, every state and and all that kind of thing. So looking at the facts, it's not even possible to be part of the EU for Canada. And when I see people thinking, oh, that sounds nice. Yeah, maybe maybe I can vacation in the south of France or retire in in Italy or I don't know what people are thinking because it's insane.

[00:54:44]And I've I've been in Europe a few times. I used to I used to be chair of an international small business body uh with with about 80 countries as a as a member and it was all small business organizations from around the world. So I spent some time in Brussels and boy if you think red tape in Canada is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. It was mindbustling. mind-boggling and also the European economies are failing terribly.

[00:55:09]Countries like Germany that used to be like the the motor manufacturing, you know, juggernaut motor of of Europe has ruined its manufacturing sector. It's de-industrializing now because of its insane buying in to so-called green energy. It it decommissioned its nuclear plants. I'm sure you know all this. And got to the point it was so dependent on Russia where they were going to freeze to death. you know, they were going to freeze it in the dark. Um, and and uh they they're de-industrializing now because they made the cost of energy so high to their businesses. The businesses are leaving. They're getting out going to Asia or whatever. So, Europe is not an attractive thing to join right now, even if we could join it. So, I don't get that. And I can only presume the maj majority of Canadians who say, because I've seen those polls, too, that say that yes, we should join the EU, they don't, I'm sorry, they don't have a clue what they're talking about. Unfortunate, but true.

[00:56:03]Although I would say just hate too. It's part Trump hate too, right? We hate Trump so much we'll go anywhere. Yeah, EU sounds good.

[00:56:11]>> I would chuck in just as context as like an information a bit sort of background information. A similar discussion is going on in the UK. You know, you think they would know better.

[00:56:22]>> Yeah.

[00:56:22]>> But there's a I think almost it's kind of like you can project all of your fantasies onto the European Union, can't you? It's like all our problems will go away if we just join this sclerotic, you know, aging um unambitious trading block that regulates the shape of bananas and things like that infamously, but I don't know.

[00:56:41]>> That's right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:56:43]Well, the story goes they would tell us how to make maple syrup if we if we join the >> Yeah, they would. They really would.

[00:56:50]>> And they would. And they absolutely would. But don't forget too, Europe has been overrun by Islamist uh immigrants which has increased their crime horrendously, disrupted their social structure uh terribly and and and really we see enough of that in Canada as far as I'm concerned already and we're nowhere near as bad as the EU has become. And why would we ever want more of that? Because the other thing is open borders. Hey, once you're in the EU, your borders are open.

[00:57:21]And you have >> all EU country, all EU countries. So let her rip, you know, >> and you know, you'll be forced to share, you'll be forced to have your share of what they call irregular immigrants, which is just people who've walked from Iraq and Syria or whatever. They've walked to Turkey and then got on a dinghy to Greece or or done it the Spanish side is the other one. And yeah, a lot of them undeniably, undoubtedly are Islamists. talk about Brussels, you know, they have they've had terror attacks in Brussels committed by Islamists who came to Europe through those very roots that you're talking about. So, it's um it's very very real there the you know, there's a blood cost to these policies and and I think it's right to point that out.

[00:58:02]>> Massive. Another one another one is you know that you've got an unelected government in Europe. we would have there's there's something too akin to an equalization formula that the the all like the Canada's equalization formula where different provinces transfer money and so on. Um there's there's one in the EU as well and Canada would end up paying very significantly to be a member again if if it could legally at all. Um and yet have an unelected government they would have absolutely no control over. Again there's point after POINT AFTER POINT. WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT THIS? So I think it's Carney's dream. He fancies himself a European. Thinks, you know, Canada's a bit beneath him and would like to somehow uh, you know, in future. I'm sure once he's done politics, he'll be gone from Canada. He won't stay in Canada. He'll be gone to what he feels is more suitable to his lofty uh, intellect.

[00:58:57]>> Well, I said I said this the other day.

[00:58:58]He's he's going to end up in London probably or the Cotswalds or something like that with his wife or maybe New York. But um, he also made a comment. It seemed seems to have gone under the radar. He he sort of chuckled. He laughed himself silly by saying, "I'll never work in the private sector again," which I find quite interesting because he's not, you know, by by today's standards, he's not really that old. I could easily imagine him doing that. So, I thought that was interesting. But anyway, I'll sneak in my last question and then um either let you go or give you give you back to Jim. And and this is an attempt at some optimism here. We talked about Europe, Carney wanting to go to Europe. We talked a bit about um talent or just just people in general going to the US. Most pe most people I feel in Canada now they know someone there's someone in their social circle who's gone to the US recently. I mean that's certainly the case for me and lots of people talking about it. It's it's definitely in the wind. I just want to hear um I want to hear the case for staying in Canada. Oh, like the the real sort like the strongest best case for not doing that, not doing what Carney probably will do and did do and and instead stay >> his family's there now. Yeah. Sorry. His family's there now, right? It's and this is what I always find really hypocritical is he's got over 90% of his investments in in that hated, despised USA, but it's pretty good for his money apparently. So, there must be something to it. I I I don't know what to say. it.

[01:00:22]The people that are leaving are either businesses that have to people aren't doing this because they're happy doing it. Let's face it, it's hard to move a business. It's expensive. You've got to, you know, relocate yourself, buy a new facility, learn a whole bunch of new laws and so on. They're only doing it because they feel they have to to stay in business. And of course, what a lot of our members are doing is they're opening an operation in the States while keeping it in Canada. And then they've got the comparison. And sadly, there's no comparison. They find the US so attractive in so many ways.

[01:00:52]um that from a business standpoint, I suppose I I still think Canada is a more uh I don't know what the right adjective is here, but the a more uh peaceful society perhaps, but that's rapidly decreasing. Again, when I see mobs on our streets pro supporting terrorists and this is being permitted by our governments, our police forces and so on, I think, well, years ago, I would have said that I would I would view Canada as a much more, you know, kinder, gentler society, I guess, is what it usually gets referred to as. But that's not the case anymore. We have major crime problems. We've made ridiculous drug policies that have legalized and and often provided people with drugs that have horribly harmed them personally as well as our downtown cores and so on. So, I'd like to be positive, too. Don't get me wrong. I don't tend to be a pessimist, but they do call economics the dismal science, you know.

[01:01:49]Um, but but it I guess the positive part is that we do have so much potential. I remember um at one of our gala meetings and we have a gala once a year recently.

[01:02:00]We had just had one a couple of weeks ago and we had Scott Mo at one of ours a few years ago and he said, you know, we have so much potential in Canada. We're not utilizing it properly right now, we know that, but you know, if we get the right policies, we don't have them now, but if we do get the right policies, we could turn around pretty quickly. And I guess that's a positive thing that even though we are down in the dumps at the moment in many many different ways, it really wouldn't take a huge amount of change. It would it would require reversing eliminating a bunch of legislation and so on. No question about it. Uh but it that would turn things around fairly quickly. And I guess that's what I see as as something positive that the potential is unquestionably there. We just need the right government policies uh to to turn it around. But once that happens, it can turn around pretty fast.

[01:02:54]>> The shackled beast that's it's that's hidden out in the woodshed with multiple locks around it. That's what it feels like in Canada. The shackled beast is the solution. We're not letting them out of the closet because >> you won't need us if you let that shackled beast out, right? So yeah. So it's it's it's tough, right? Like it's tough to some of the stuff. It's almost like lunacy. That's why our headline again, like the nut economy. Like it it just doesn't make any sense and it just every day it seems to be another nutty thing after nutty thing. Uh we we did a show I think last week and it was as if we only had a brain. I think it was like you know like it's skipping down the road there. If you only had a brain. It it seems like the manufactured crisis definitely is driving like the Canadians willingness to go along with this ruse.

[01:03:41]I guess, you know, with Trixie at the front there dancing and telling telling tales, but uh we do thank you for your time. Um we we've gone over we usually try to keep these to an hour and um you're great and we want to have you on many many more times because I think we we could sit here all day, but we also want to be cognizant of people's time and um as usual, Katherine, um we'll find a solution. I think we got we got to find somebody that knows how to pick the lock, right? To get the locks off the beast, right? Because once the beast is out of the out of the closet there and you take the shackles off, people will see that prosperity again and it'll be tough to to put that beast back in there.

[01:04:19]>> I would hope I I also hope that that enough Canadians will see the light that the current path isn't working for anybody ultimately. And if you worry enough about your kids and grandkids, even if you personally are okay financially, uh you'd better think of future generations and the future of the country if you're at all responsible as a Canadian. Well, I mean, there was words once a famous person once said, Ronald Reagan said, "Tear down that wall, Gorbachoff." And sometimes, you know, like this this bureaucracy that's being built around Canada, somebody needs to be able to tear down that wall.

[01:04:52]>> Thank you.

[01:04:53]>> True. Sad, but true. But thank you. It's been a pleasure.

[01:04:56]>> Thank you. And thank you for I'm going to go slip my wrist now. Go slip my wrist.

[01:05:01]>> Hey, there's hope. The beast. We'll figure out a way to pick that lock.

[01:05:06]>> Unlock the beast.

[01:05:07]>> That's right. and unleash the beast.

[01:05:08]There you go. All right. Thank you for watching Now Media.