Memorial Day: America’s military and civilian divide | This is America

Added: 2026-05-25

[00:00:08]This is America and this is Constitution Avenue in Washington DC. Home to the United States largest Memorial Day commemoration. Every year, military members who die serving our country are honored on the last day in May. But how do Americans remember that sacrifice at a time when attitudes towards foreign conflicts are changing? I'll be back a little later in the program with more on that. But to start us off, here's Rob Mat from our Washington studio.

[00:00:38]Well, thanks Manny. There's no question that Memorial Day is a major event on the US calendar. At its core, it's a solemn moment of national reflection and remembrance, honoring those who sacrificed their lives in military service. But away from the cemeteries and the ceremonies, it's got other meanings. the unofficial start of the American summer and one of the biggest commercial sale weekends of the entire year. Now begging the question is money taking over from memories? Now in a moment we're going to go to our correspondent Manuel Rapo at the Memorial Day parade in Washington and Kristen Salumi is standing by at a commemoration event in New York. Here in Washington, US President Donald Trump has attended a wreathing ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery.

[00:01:24]present >> present.

[00:01:29]>> He was joined by Vice President JD Vance and Secretary of Defense Pete Hexith and it was followed by the Memorial Day observance at the Memorial Amphitheater.

[00:01:38]Going to go to Emanuel Rapo now who's on Constitution Avenue here in Washington DC. You're at the site of America's largest Memorial Day parade. Talk us through what's happening there.

[00:01:50]>> Nice to see you Rob. We are on Constitution Avenue, as you mentioned, on the National Mall here in Washington DC, just steps away from many of the various monuments honoring America's fallen servicemen and women over the years. This is a holiday that initially began as a way to remember the fallen soldiers from America's Civil War and was later expanded as a remembrance holiday for those who have fallen across all the various different conflicts that the United States has been involved with over the years. Over the course of the day, we've been speaking to people who came here to watch the annual Memorial Day parade, which features marching bands. And uh despite the fact that many of the people that we've spoken to may not necessarily have a direct connection to Memorial Day, many of them are out here on holiday, some of them are shopping, some of them are out here with their family. Many of them told us that that didn't stop them from coming out here to the National Mall to pay their respects. Have a look.

[00:02:48]For many Americans, Memorial Day marks the unofficial beginning of summer. A time for travel, family cookouts, and major retail sales.

[00:02:56]>> This Memorial Day, we honor those who served our country.

[00:03:00]>> Kickoff summer the right way.

[00:03:01]>> For stars, stripes, and super savings.

[00:03:04]>> Memorial Day sale, 60 months financing.

[00:03:06]>> But beneath the long weekend traditions is a holiday rooted in war, sacrifice, and remembrance. Memorial Day is special for me because I intend after I get out of high school to enlist in the United States Army.

[00:03:18]>> Our current population doesn't even have any idea of what sacrifice they put up with.

[00:03:22]>> In modern America, fewer and fewer people have a direct connection to military service. Today, less than 1% of Americans currently serve in the armed forces, compared with the generations mobilized during World War II, when military service touched millions of families across the country. The end of the military draft in 1972 transformed who fights America's wars. For decades, the draft required millions of young men to serve in the military, linking war more directly to everyday American life.

[00:03:56]>> Since then, the US military has relied on an all volunteer force, creating a growing divide between civilian life and military service.

[00:04:05]>> I think for a lot of average kids, it means the school gets out. But I think in the past several years, we've learned to understand that Memorial Day is for those veterans who died fighting for the nation in in past conflicts.

[00:04:16]>> That divide became even more pronounced after two decades of conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan. Wars that ended without clear national consensus and contributed to growing public skepticism toward future military interventions.

[00:04:32]Recent polling also suggests many Americans oppose deeper US involvement in the current conflict with Iran, even while continuing to express strong support for troops and veterans. Well, a lot of this is a melting pot. You know, these people from all over the world come here and I think it doesn't mean quite as much to them unless they've lived here and live through the history.

[00:04:52]But but but I think it's a it's a it's a pride mostly and and thankfulness for what they've given me in the country.

[00:05:02]>> At the same time, Memorial Day has also evolved into one of the country's busiest commercial weekends where remembrance now exists alongside shopping trips, packed highways, and travel plans. For some, that contrast can seem uncomfortable. For others, it simply reflects the distance that exists between military service and civilian life in America today. And yet, despite political divisions and growing war fatigue, many Americans still pause on Memorial Day to honor those who never came home. A national ritual of remembrance in a country increasingly removed from war itself. Manuel Rapalo, Al Jazzer, Washington.

[00:05:45]Now, Memorial Day also happens to be the unofficial start of the American summer.

[00:05:51]As you can see, the rain has put a little bit of a damper on that. But a little rain wasn't enough to stop today's Memorial Day parade here in Washington DC, or to lessen the emotional weight that this holiday carries for millions of Americans, especially for military families and for veterans here in the United States. Rob.

[00:06:09]>> Okay, let's go from Constitution Avenue.

[00:06:11]We're going to go to Staten Island.

[00:06:12]Kristen Salumi. Um, how is Memorial Day being commemorated where you are, Kristen?

[00:06:21]>> Yeah, the weather wasn't great here either, but the rain stopped. People came out just like they have for the last 107 years to mark Memorial Day with a parade. Uh, it's a a practice that started just after World War I and continued through times of peace and war. People that I spoke to today do acknowledge that participation, people coming out for the parade, attendance has declined somewhat in recent years, especially compared to the surge in patriotism we saw after the attacks of September 11th, 2001 in the runup to the war in Iraq. But I spoke to a lot of veterans and veteran family members here and they say the whole point of participating in this event uh is to honor those who made the ultimate sacrifice, not to discuss politics.

[00:07:17]>> It's important that we support um the men and women in uniform uh regardless of politics. They're just doing a job and they're here protecting us. So we and they're giving their the ultimate sacrifice, a lot of them. So, we're here just to honor them.

[00:07:29]>> There's a lot of support for President Trump here in the last election. Um, kind of been on the verge of a war overseas.

[00:07:38]Does that affect anybody's attitude coming out here, do you think, or >> I don't think so. The people that are going to support it are going to support it. And the people that want to support the other side are going to support what they want to support. That's the good about this country. You got your freedom to make your choice.

[00:07:53]>> Does it make it that much more important for you to come out here?

[00:07:56]>> It always has. Like I said, I did it with my father, my family, and I continue doing it.

[00:08:00]>> I feel like people should really um try to get to know people that served.

[00:08:04]They're really loving and caring.

[00:08:05]They're not that really scary people.

[00:08:07]They really care about the country and the people that are serving. Most of the time they're serving in front of the family, but they're also serving because they care about everybody. They really do care.

[00:08:15]>> How could you justify any war? Really, how how could you justify it? Men men and women die. How do you how do you justify that? no matter what reason outside of maybe World War II. Okay, how do you justify it?

[00:08:30]>> It's all political and that you could put on record.

[00:08:38]>> Now, I should point out that Staten Island is an overwhelmingly Republican bureau in an overwhelmingly Democratic state. Donald Trump uh won in Staten Island with about twothirds of the vote here. It's a place that's home to a lot of city workers, firefighters, police officers, uh, all kinds of city workers and service members. And while some people may not agree with what's happening in Iran and, uh, may think that the president has gone back on his promises of no more foreign forever wars. Uh, overwhelmingly, the people I spoke to here did not want to talk about politics again, saying that is not the point of this day. It is to honor service members and that was their their aim for coming out. Rob, back to you.

[00:09:24]>> I want to say thank you to both our correspondents, Chris and Staten Island and Manuel Rapo on Constitution Avenue here in Washington. Okay, we've been hearing some views from veterans there.

[00:09:34]The baseline definition of a veteran is someone who served in the active military, naval, air, or space as long as they weren't dishonorably discharged.

[00:09:43]Now things get a little bit more murky for reser or national guard members who do regularly train but they're not called to active duty. But under the legal definitions around 15.8 million Americans identified as veterans according to the most recent census data. That's around 6.1% of the entire population. Now based on those most recent figures around a third of living American veterans served in Vietnam. 28% were in the Gulf War from September 2001 onwards. 24.8% were in the Gulf War before then. The rest served in the Korean War and World War II. A little over 74% of living veterans identified as white. Black Americans are the second largest racial group at 12.6%.

[00:10:32]8.6% of veterans were Hispanic or Latin American. According to that same data from the 2023 census, around half of veterans are over 65, while around 28% were 75 or older. We're going to introduce our guest panel today. Navid Sha is a US Army veteran and political director of common defense and Jeremy Mayor, nurse professor in the SH School of Policy and Government at George Mason University. Gentlemen, thank you both very much indeed for being with us. We heard there in Emanuel Rapalo's piece there was an advert that was running saying stars and stripes and super savings.

[00:11:10]Are people losing sight do you think of what Memorial Day actually should be?

[00:11:14]>> You know, I've been really heartened to see, Rob, that in this time in the past 20 years or so, Memorial Day has actually gained more meaning. And while there are still are mattress sales happening on on Memorial Day weekend and Columbus Day weekend and President's Day weekend, more people are taking the time out of their day to recognize what Memorial Day is all about. So while those kind of sales are going to happen in this country, I think a lot of people are taking the time to recognize uh those who have served and given the ultimate sacrifice.

[00:11:40]>> At the same time, we've been hearing that the numbers of people who've been turning out for events has been declining. Just talk us through why you think that there has been in your view an upurge and a greater interest in Memorial Day >> and that might be a part of because of where what I do. So I see here in DC a lot more activity around Memorial Day at Arlington National Cemetery and other veterans events held in the counties and cities and states around. Uh so there might be a little bit of bias on my end from seeing that uh in my day-to-day.

[00:12:09]>> Uh Jeremy during the Second World War there was a sense of a clearly defined enemy and at the time some sort of clear purpose in your estimation do you think that the way that Americans see conflict has changed in the subsequent years?

[00:12:23]>> Absolutely. I asked my students a few months ago, would you be willing to die for your country? And almost no one said they would be. They wouldn't join the military if we got into a war. Although a few of them set aside if we were attacked, maybe they would be willing to be drafted. And my students are 20, 18, and the wars they've seen did not end well. The Iraq war was murky. The Afghanistan war, the occupation ended in defeat. And uh this current conflict of Iran is another murky uncertain matter so different from World War II.

[00:12:56]>> I think it's just worth breaking down the kind of structure of the military.

[00:12:59]We're talking about conscription versus um the draft. And for most of the US's recent history, of course, conscription was relied upon to bolster its military ranks. The last time any American was drafted into service was 1973. That means for the past half century, the United States military's been an all volunteer force. What does that look like today? Well, a little over 2 million troops according to the latest data published in March. Around 2/3 of them are on active duty. The rest a reserveist that could be called up at any time. Breaking that down into the different branches of the military.

[00:13:35]458,000 are on active duty in the army.

[00:13:39]348,000 in the Navy, 320,000 in the air force. and the rest are scattered among the Marine Corps, the Coast Guard, and the Space Force. Just over one in every 10 active duty troops are stationed abroad. About 55,000 are in Japan, 37,000 in Germany, 23,000 in South Korea. While here in the US, most of the troops are stationed in California, Virginia, and Texas. Total of 23 states, and the District of Columbia host over 10,000 troops.

[00:14:12]Navidid, I want to ask you because do you think that it affects recruitment if the military at any stage is seen to be too close to whatever administration is in power at the time?

[00:14:22]>> Yeah, absolutely it does. What Jeremy said just now is is really indicative of what the state of our military is. When young people aren't willing to volunteer to serve, that's a national security issue. uh if they perceive this administration uh the you know the military uh administration that's running it are all out of step with where they are they're not going to be willing to serve and we're going to have a real recruitment recruiting crisis in which we do >> Jeremy I understand though there has been something of a slight uptick I believe in since I think 2024 in the number of people who have been enlisting in the military to what extent given the sub what you've just been saying to what extent do you think economic pressures within the US um to some degree guide whether or not there is an increase in the number of people wanting to enlist.

[00:15:07]>> Oh, I think very much so at the lower ranks, the enlisted ranks, you see economic pressure uh increasing recruitment. When the economy goes down, the military becomes a more viable option for workingclass young people.

[00:15:21]>> I think it's worth just taking a quick look at the number of Americans who are listing and just getting a sense of that trajectory. The number in the mil in enlisting in the military steadily fallen in recent decades. As we've just been describing, data shows around 800,000 people have been applying in the early 1980s. Save for a few upticks in applications here and there. The numbers have been steadily falling over the past 50 years. Although very recent figures show that decline could be reversing. As we were mentioning, in 2024, the Defense Department said the number of enlisted people was up 14% from 2022. Now, just as the US finds itself involved in more military operations abroad, there has been this uptick in Americans who are wanting to enlist. Military publications have reported a hike in recruiting across the army, in the Navy, the Coast Guard, and the Space Force. with some enlistes referencing global events as reasons they've joined up.

[00:16:16]>> I was up late night and I saw the US had bombed an Iran military base for some reason and I was always considering the military and I was like that's now's now's the time. I should probably get the process started now. You look at other countries, you look at, you know, other places of the world and nobody nobody has the freedom that we have today. And I feel like with my generation, a lot of them are are starting to get away from that, you know? So, like me being able to join and hopefully make a change, um, I don't know, just like means a lot, I guess. I was a news junkie before I joined and I would uh be reading as many articles, watching videos about uh the geopolitical situations in the world and how the military was changing to adapt to it. I would say I have a better understanding than most of the other Marines in my platoon about how the what's going to happen for the next few years.

[00:17:18]Navidid, we're just hearing there that patriotism and world events are driving a lot of this uh enlistment. But once these young people join, how does the military sustain that momentum? How does it keep that level of enthusiasm for being in the military?

[00:17:32]>> You know, something the military has to do really well is make sure that these troops and their families are taken care of. And that's been a huge challenge that we've seen is that the barracks are full of mold. the their families are being moved around from place to place more frequently, not allowing the spouse to get a job, not allowing the kids to make friends at school. Uh, and they're sending their their soldiers, the Marines overseas for months and months at a time on extended deployments with no clear uh, you know, goal in sight and no clear end in sight in another but potentially forever war with Iran.

[00:18:02]>> Uh, so I think what the military has to do is come back to taking care of the troops and their families and making sure that they have everything that they need when they're serving. I agree with all of that, but I would also point out that the evolution of warfare may mean that the military won't need as many people moving forward. It is a drone war and it's soon it's going to be a robot war. That's the news that's coming out of Ukraine.

[00:18:24]>> And in terms of that, when we see young people enlisting in the military, presumably therefore, we're going to see a reshaping of the skills on top of what the basic training that they would normally get. But we're, as you were talking about, we're suddenly seeing a completely different dimension to the nature of warfare. I want to get a sense from you, first of all, how the military might react to that, but secondly, how the uh the enlistes themselves might react. Is there a sense that war is now a distant thing for them? It is something that they don't engage with on uh a hand-to-hand, day-to-day, face-to-face basis, but it's now something that is at arms length. I think the troops are going to get there before the generals. That if you look at the Air Force, they didn't have a way of advancement for joystick warriors, for people who were flying drones remotely.

[00:19:14]The path was about pilots. The path was about the glory of the warrior who risked his body. So, it's a culture change and it's also changing the thinking of the hierarchy.

[00:19:24]>> Navi, do you think that as a result of that there's going to be a desensitization among some of the troops to to the nature of war? We're talking about the we're making the early comparison and perhaps it's an overly simplistic comparison between World War II and the kind of conflict we're seeing now in Iran, Afghanistan and and so on.

[00:19:41]A lot of it focus uh on drones. Do you think that there is a a lack of understanding of the cruelty and the barbarism that there can be in war? I think what the kids are seeing nowadays on YouTube are videos from the early global war on terror, the Giwat as we call it, from Iraq and Afghanistan from kids who had the GoPros on their helmets and now just, you know, compare that to the drone footage that we're seeing out of Ukraine. Uh I think they're pretty able to see pretty clearly what to expect. Uh and so I think kids are going in with a little bit more uh understanding than we did when I went joined the army and went to Iraq in 2009. Uh, you know, I had no idea what to expect when I got there. Uh, versus now everything's available on on YouTube and on your phone.

[00:20:23]>> Jeremy, do you think that, um, Americans can still differentiate between the the the nature of conflict that we're talking about between World War II and the kind of conflicts we're seeing now. I'm talking not about the those who are enlisting now. I'm talking about the American public generally who are seeing as we all are so much of the conflicts around the world fed to us through the media. So I don't think Americans understand war in the way they did in part because military service is now so rare. 1% of families typically have someone in the service at any given time and so services is the sacrifice of service is segregated to a very small percentage of the population and that makes war an easier choice for policy makers. Another big change is almost no one in Congress has a child in uniform >> and that makes war an easier choice for them on the individual level.

[00:21:16]>> I want to pick up on that because we are seeing the number of politicians or indeed the parents of politicians who may have actually themselves uh experienced conflict diminishing over time simply because of that's the way that that humanity works. But how does that influence do you think the way that governments approach conflicts? There used to be that re that reality that people were carrying with them back in the 70s and the 80s, but we are uh to a greater extent losing those people with that level of experience. How do you think it's changing?

[00:21:46]>> Well, I think I think as I said, war becomes an easier choice. I don't think most Americans are aware that we have bombed more countries than any other country on planet earth over the last 40 years. We do it very often. we do it and and the world knows this but I think Americans think that each one of them was a discrete action of justice and uh it's us and Israel doing this and it's very uncommon. M I want to come back to Memorial Day and the principles behind it we've we've touched on. But do you think that just to be clear the Memorial Day is about showing respect for those who have served and those who have died in conflict rather than an endorsement of conflict itself?

[00:22:28]>> Absolutely. I think it's really important to use this Memorial Day to remember the people who gave what Lincoln called the last full measure of devotion to our country and their families. honor them and cherish them and respect them.

[00:22:40]>> U go ahead.

[00:22:42]>> No, you go ahead.

[00:22:43]>> I was just gonna say it's it's easier, you know, for a lot of us to uh so it's easier seems like it's easier for our government to bury a veteran than to take care of them. So I think the flip side of this is to make sure that the troops who are living uh after Memorial Day is when we need to make sure that we take care of them, provide them with the healthcare that we promised them, provide them with the benefits we promised them. We're seeing this administration make cuts across the board to the Department of Veterans Affairs. Uh and that needs to stop.

[00:23:10]>> I want I want to bring us back to this um dichotomy that that we're facing with Memorial Day. The fact that it is should be marking those who fell in conflict and at the same time it's regarded as a shopping holiday and there has always been a balance between that commemoration and commercialization of Memorial Day. But this year the competition is more intense than ever.

[00:23:30]Now, consumers are still spending, but inflation, due in part to the Iran war, means that they're being more discerning. The number of people who said that they plan to buy something in Memorial Day weekend in 2025 was 36%.

[00:23:43]This year, that number jumped to 54%.

[00:23:46]But the amount they plan to spend has dropped from $289 to $86. That is a 70% decline with more of a focus on less expensive items. Jeremy, so that brings us back to the economic pressures that people have uh facing, particularly in the United States, particularly of course as a result of the Iran war. How do you think that that is going to play out in the way that people um begin to regard the the military as a viable option in terms of a career path? You touched on it before, but I just want to get a sense of longer term. Do you think that this is something that is likely to be restricted just to the next few months until oil prices come down again or is there going to be a long-term upswing?

[00:24:27]>> Oh, I think it's going to be a long time before we see $3 gas again. And what's unique about this war is that all the other wars we've recently had, the American public hasn't suffered. Like if you think about George W. Bush sending Americans off to war in Afghanistan and Iraq, he asked us to what sacrifice to make. Did we raise taxes to pay for it?

[00:24:47]No. He told us to go shopping in his uh message to Congress and so we showed our patriotism by spending. Well, this time we're already seeing massive changes in supply chain in the cost of moving things around the country that is likely to get much much worse over the next few months.

[00:25:05]>> Navidid, we heard in uh Kristen's report there, she spoke to uh two or three different veterans uh one of whom had very strong opinions about the the concept of war and politicians going into war. Do you think that this distancing that we were talking about earlier to some degree helps to make politicians feel less accountable when they are pushing to go into conflict?

[00:25:26]>> You know, it's absolutely true that we've heard and seen politicians, especially in this Congress where there are fewer veterans than ever before serving. Uh they're more willing to step, you know, step aside and let this president do whatever he wants when when it comes to war. But the American public, even his own base, are are very much against it. and the veterans who do do serve in this Congress have been coming out against it as well.

[00:25:46]>> Jeremy, I want to come back to this point that we were making right at the start. Do you think that the commercialization that we're seeing of Memorial Day is actually obscuring the core message of Memorial Day itself?

[00:25:57]>> Oh, I'm sure it is. But let's all let's remember Memorial Day has always been political. It was started as a way of keeping the memory of the Union troops that beat the South alive. And for a long time, it wasn't celebrated in the South because they didn't like thinking about the war. So a a memorial day is always embedded in the culture and politics of the time. That's true in Russia today and it's also true in America.

[00:26:20]>> And Navidid, I have about 40 seconds, so I just want to get your take on this. I mean, you said that you were encouraged by the number of people who were marking Memorial Day, but do you think that that is going to continue or do you think consumerism is going to take over?

[00:26:33]>> You know, I think I'm hopeful that it will continue to grow because uh as Jeremy said, Memorial Day has always been political. when when the troops came back from World War II and came to marched on Washington with the bonus army, that was a political gesture that we had to take in order to make sure that our benefits were there. So, as long as veterans are alive and breathing and their families are, we will make sure that Memorial Day is a is a well-remembered holiday.

[00:26:55]>> Well, it's going to be interesting to see whether or not this is going to play out in the run-up to the midterms back in November. Gentlemen, thank you very much indeed. I want to thank our guest for today's show, US Army veteran and political director of common defense Davided Sha and professor in the sh school of policy and government George Mason University Jeremy Mayor. And that's all from the team here in Washington. Handing back to Manny Rapo and Al Jazer's global headquarters in Doha.

[00:27:22]Thanks Rob. On the next episode of This Is America, we look at whether the Trump administration has diffused one of the Democrats strongest weapons for the midterms, immigration policy. That's Tuesday at 18:30 GMT or 2:30 p.m.

[00:27:37]Eastern time here in the United States.

[00:27:39]From the whole team, bye for now.