Never again now means nothing. Viral Rabbi on why Jews are fleeing Britain | The Daily T

Añadido: 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]The attack at Gold's Green seems to have crossed a line. Record numbers of British Jews are immigrating amid a rising tide of anti-Semitic attacks. We speak to the rabbi whose emotional response to what happened in Gold's Green went viral on social media. And he tells us why for the first time as a British Jew, he is considering leaving the country.

[00:00:22]>> I have to zoom in. I'm in awitz doing this at the pictures and the videos of people lying on the floor and I try to identify through the clothes through the legs is that someone in my family >> you know as I pensively wait for people to check in and reply on a family WhatsApp group that's what happened and then to take 40 students and have to sit them down I mean we had no other place to sit them down other that barracks and it was it was in front of the gas chambers there we had to sit them down and explain to them that almost like this has happened again because of where we were. The connection is so clear.

[00:00:58]>> Last week there was a stabbing in Golders Green that left two uh Jewish people injured and a man has been arrested and is in court on three charges of attempted murder. This comes off the back of other attacks, firebombing of ambulances, uh the attack uh on and the and the deaths of two Jewish men at a Manchester synagogue in October of last year. uh and a rise overall in anti-semitic attacks in this country. Uh the government has raised the national terrorism threat level to severe uh and has rolled out a number of other responses as well which I'm sure we will mention. Um but one person who I think brilliantly captured the feeling of British Jews and of British people who can't quite understand what's going on was Rabbi uh Doran Bernbam who joins us today. Um, Rabbi, you happened to be in Awitz with some students when the Gold's Green attack took place. Tell us how you felt when you first heard about it. I mean, as I said in that interview that's now been seen millions of times around the world. It was an incredibly difficult place to find out that news. We were having a a tour and I was in the latrines which is a a barrack where they supposedly allowed women to go to to the toilet in there but it was a horrendous place of of torture and horror and my phone pings and I see the news that two Jews have been stabbed in gold as green and you know it's like you feel a sense of shock but at the same time as many people in the Jewish community will relate to you're not surprised. Um, and then to have to check in on my family, as I said in that interview, you know, check to see is everyone okay?

[00:02:43]And I'll use I'll use the words that are difficult for some people because I I think it's important the world knows, but I together with other people in my community receive pictures and videos of what took place and I have to zoom in.

[00:02:56]I'm in Avitz doing this at the pictures and the videos of people lying on the floor and I try to identify through the clothes through the legs. Is that someone in my family?

[00:03:06]>> You know, as I pensively wait for people to check in and reply on a family WhatsApp group, that's what happened.

[00:03:12]And then to take 40 students and have to sit them down. I mean, we had no other place to sit them down other barracks and it was it was in front of the gas chambers there. We had to sit them down and explain to them that almost like this has happened again because of where we were. The connection is so clear. And to explain to them anti-semitism is is happening again and you need to check in on your parents. It's a really difficult and painful thing to do.

[00:03:38]>> What was the reaction of the young people that you were with?

[00:03:42]>> You know, teenagers are resilient and they often, you know, but it's it it wasn't surprise.

[00:03:49]There's there isn't surprise. is I mean how many firebomb attacks need to happen? How many hate marches need to take place that fester a narrative that then is allowed to play out on social media that then will radicalize some people to take action? Like where's the surprise? If you chant globalize the interifard and that is then allowed to carry into online narratives and discord groups and whatever it is that radicalizes people, there's no surprise there. Explain to me if you can what it's like on a daily basis uh to be self-conscious of being Jewish in Britain. I asked this question because I'm speaking from complete ignorance as far as I'm concerned.

[00:04:28]You're British.

[00:04:29]>> I didn't think we had sectarianism here.

[00:04:31]Northern Ireland bits of Scotland. Okay.

[00:04:34]I'm not naive, but I I just regard you as part of the family and it never occurred to me that you might feel under threat. How does it actually feel to be Jewish in Britain in 2026? Well, I appreciate you you considering myself and my community part of the family because that's really how we feel and how I felt my whole life. You know, I am a proud British Jew. My grandfather, Simon Critz, fought in the British army in World War II. You know, I still have my my own son is named after him. And we have his letters from the trenches. And it's quite funny. He would laugh some, you know, from on high. He would laugh at where I am today because his letters used to say to his family back home, "Please go to the media, go to the newspapers and tell us the conditions in the trenches." So we are a proud British family. At the same time, my great uncle, so they married sisters. My grandfather's in in in the British army in the war and my great uncle was a survivor of Bkhenald concentration camp, but we were brought up as proud British Jews. And in the synagogue, we pray for the royal family and for Great Britain on the Sabbath at a very holy time in the prayer service. And we continue to do that in synagogues up and down the land. So I really feel, you know, and I think I speak, you know, who am I? But I think I speak on behalf of of the whole community that we're proud to be part of the fabric of of British life. And as I've said before, anti-semitism is not a Jewish problem. It's a societal problem.

[00:06:05]>> And this is not a sad moment for Jews.

[00:06:09]This is a sad moment for Britain.

[00:06:12]>> I agree with that. I mean, I think you and I were discussing it earlier in the week. And it feels to us as Gentiles, as Catholics, that a red line has been crossed. Now, it might not have just been crossed last week. What I'm trying to figure out, mindful of your viral video, mindful as well of the comments that Boy George made in Ireland when he asked an audience, well, how many people here >> know Jews? Just to contextualize my position in all this.

[00:06:39]>> I'm brought up in Hertfordshire.

[00:06:41]>> I go to school in the 80s and 90s with a lot of Jewish girls that end up at my school in St. Orbin's.

[00:06:48]>> I don't know why we had such a high Jewish population, but we did.

[00:06:52]Therefore, I grew up with Jewish girls.

[00:06:54]I went to their houses on a Friday night. I had suppers with them. I went to their bat mitzvah. My father then ended up marrying a Jewish woman whose mother had been a survivor of Awitz. I ended up covering the 75th anniversary of the liberation. Went out to Poland like you. Uh saw where my grandmother had been held captive. Um it's been a part of the fabric of my life. But then I do think that perhaps there is a divide, as Boy George maybe crudely put it, between people who know Jews in this country and people that don't. And I'm merely trying to articulate that because I can't quite understand fully how we've got to this point where anti-semitism has been so casualized among the young. I I'm concerned about that among younger people.

[00:07:50]and how we've got to this point. And Tim and I were discussing it on the train earlier. Is there a problem here that some of the education around Jewish history and Jewish heritage is rightly concerned with the Holocaust, but not quite bringing young people up to date with the Jewish experience in the 21st century rather than the 20th?

[00:08:11]>> No, it's an excellent point and I think, you know, I was on a panel with with Joe Phillips last night and she made this point as well and I didn't realize this.

[00:08:18]She said that, you know, people outside the Jewish community, we sometimes have a attitude which is excellent, a really good attitude is we get our head down and we just get on with it. That's what we do and and we graft them with with grit in in society. But Joe Phillips said, you know, sometimes people don't know what you're going through and if you don't speak up and you don't talk about it, you people won't know. And I think that's changed. I think it's really changed. you know, people are now starting and and especially the rabbitical figures in the community are really speaking up and and saying, as you said, there's there's a line that's been crossed here. Um, and in terms of the terms of the young, as I'm an educator myself, that's the bread and butter of what I do. Um, I think, you know, I'll talk from my own experience.

[00:09:02]I read a thousandpage book called The Holocaust by Martin Gilbert, an excellent book. Um, and yet going there and seeing it in person for yourself is different. And there are there are countries out there that make it mandatory to to go. I wouldn't suggest we make it mandatory, but I think it should be part of of some sort of drive from the government where they have this sort of money to get even if it's not students, but to get, you know, journalists like yourselves or or politicians to go out there to see it and then you can contextualize what people are saying. I I cannot explain to you the hate that I've had on X from the posts I've put on and I'm not putting on anything that's, you know, all I'm doing is highlighting anti-semitism. So, one post I put out recently that gained quite a bit of traction was when I was in the barracks in Awitz. I took a picture and there was a swastika that was carved into a into a wall there obviously by a visitor. Now, within three minutes, the Awitz Museum responded, "Where is it and I got in touch with them and I told them where it is so they could remove it and that's fine and that's appreciated. The hate and the vitrial and the anti-semitic remarks that then I woke up within the next morning when I looked at my phone I was shocked. I didn't know and and maybe they're not in Britain some of the the pictures and the flags they have to I was absolutely shocked by the type of anti-semitic abuse that was going on and I think unfortunately the reality is a lot of our youth spend their time online no matter if you split up their time between teacher parent and online will win >> and when they're spending their time online it's the algorithms that will push things towards them and I do think social media companies need to wake up or the government needs to step in and take serious responsibility there. Like what do you expect of a young person with a young mind that's very malleable that is spending, you know, something spend 6 hours on TikTok, they tell me in a row after they get back from school.

[00:11:02]So if you work out their contact time between all their different influencers, and the pun's a good one, their influence is social media. And we allow it's almost like we've incubated radicalization, I think is the correct word. We've enabled the conditions for this to happen. And so in terms of education, one thing is to go out to Poland, but think about the contact time with a history teacher, with a book they might read, with going out to Poland, and then social media. And if we don't get to the bottom of that issue, then the algorithms are going to radicalize people in our society.

[00:11:38]Might I suggest that uh one of the complicated things about anti-semitism is it takes so many different forms and one one way of understanding it of course is >> but there have been societies which have been expressly anti-fascist and have been anti-semitic like the East European communist regimes correct were very anti-semitic >> and in this country many of the people who are now pushing anti-semitic memes and ideas if you ask them would half if you suggest that they were part of the same sort of historical continuum as Adolf Hitler. Many of them are coming from the left.

[00:12:16]>> Um, how do you how do we explain this to people? This is not just about watch out for Hitler. This is about watch out for something even bigger than that which just always seems to always seems to appear whatever the political context might be. It's a complicated topic because as you're right, anti-semitism is nothing new. It's been going for thousands of years. You know, you can go back to things like the Spanish Inquisition and there's other elements of of anti-semitism that has existed over the years. And as you know, Kiama said in his statement, radicalization can come from really any part of society.

[00:12:54]>> Um, I don't have I'm going to be honest with you. I don't have a great answer to explain anti-semitism and I'm not sure there's a logical and rational way to explain it.

[00:13:04]>> These are are are tropes and you know caricaturures that have followed round the Jewish people for thousands of years. M >> but I think there's a huge difference now and and I mentioned this in another interview I did you know I my interview that went viral I I related it to to 1930s you know and I said you know if you would have gone down the streets of Kkow and some of the place I visited it would have been bustling with Jews and now there's there's nobody there and Kami Bonok said in in in her I think it was a viral when when she responded to the heckler when when she spoke about it being similar to the 1930s but there is a difference there's a difference in that in the 1930s The only information they had was when somebody was managed to escape the cattle cars, escape the camps on the odd rare occasion, they would go back to the village. They would tell the rabbi or they would tell the community, "This is what's going on." And it was rumors.

[00:13:56]That's what people felt that maybe it is true, maybe it isn't true. There were discussions. There was no platform to talk about what's going on. That's different now.

[00:14:05]>> We can open up and talk. So yes, there's similarities there, but the big difference is and Jews need to stand up and it's not again, it's not a Jewish problem. British people need to stand up. We collectively, as you said, a family, our family, we're brothers and sisters. We need to stand up and use the platforms we have and share to the world what is going on. If it isn't a Jewish problem, and I don't say this to be unnecessarily inflammatory or divisive, >> but I think we've had a problem with politicians refusing to accept the element in all this played by Islamic extremism.

[00:14:44]>> You know, I think that at the moment we can quite cogently say that some Muslims in this country have a problem with Jews. And from the perspective of a religious leader, how do you deal with that? Because does some of this come down to we can talk about education and we can talk about the role journalists play and we can talk about campaigning but is this also about opening up some kind of religious dialogue and trying to find out for instance why according to jail partners 64% of Muslims aged 18 to 24 for instance >> don't think that Israel has a right to exist like I don't even know how to begin to tackle that in the UK today.

[00:15:28]Yeah, I think dialogue is important. I mean, I was actually before my interview yesterday I do with GB News. I I I went to get a haircut and my barber is Muslim and he's an good friend of mine, a close friend of mine and he comes to my family weddings as an example. We we're very close and I wanted to be to be very clear and I have this discussion with him. We have frank discussions. there's dialogue and there's family to be to be built between every religion and none.

[00:15:59]We have to be able to live in a dem democratic society where we can achieve that. Now, in terms of radicalization, you know, actually I was looking at the CST statistics on this is that there are radicalization from all areas, far left, far right, there's Islamist radicalization as well. And so we do need to look at ways of of of you know how do we respond to that? How do we manage that? But you cannot imagine the want out there from the regular people on the street to just get along and and live together, you know, peaceful lives and just have respect and dignity and space for each other.

[00:16:37]>> But are you therefore saying that this is a minority problem? Because when we talk about crossing of red lines, it feels like it's become more generalized than that. And that's the issue that yeah, perhaps people aren't necessarily radicalized in an Islamic sense, but there has been a degree of pro Palestinian radicalization.

[00:16:56]>> Yeah.

[00:16:56]>> That we've witnessed at the so-called peace marches, >> which has then turned into something really quite ugly and unpleasant. And it's kind of masquerading as uh being all about protecting the oppressed, >> but actually resulted in throwing around the old casual racist tropes about Jews that we've been witnessing for centuries. There's nothing remotely progressive about it, is it really? It's quite medievalist.

[00:17:24]>> No, exactly. And I think far-left rad have you, as you've highlighted, far-left radicalization is something that needs to be on the government's, you know, watch list. And I think Kama said that in in his statement, as did Kemock in hers after the attacks that happened. You know, it's unfortunate is that it is a minority. A minority of people are are radicalized, but a minority can have a big impact. It takes one person to be radicalized to do an attack. So you know we need to be sometimes facts and figures and data is somewhat interpretive. It's not okay to say right it's a minority and therefore it's not a big problem. The therefore that that doesn't link. Okay. It's a minority.

[00:18:05]>> It's a big problem.

[00:18:07]>> I'd say I I think also sometimes the right tells itself a story that this is a leftwing solely a leftwing thing. I'm not saying that's what you're saying but I just don't think that's true. I have encountered right-wing Christians who've just said to me I hate Jews. Look, you look at honestly look at my Twitter feeds.

[00:18:22]>> No, I appreciate that. We've seen that in Ireland. There's historically been bizarrely despite my parents' very happy marriage.

[00:18:30]>> A problem between Catholics and Jews.

[00:18:33]>> There's a problem between Muslims and Jews. There's a problem between secular leftists and Jews.

[00:18:38]>> But the common theme in all of this is the persecution and abuse towards Jews.

[00:18:43]>> Yes. And it's as if as if that society is waiting waiting for an excuse.

[00:18:48]>> Yes. for because what what then erupts is stuff which is really old-fashioned even ancient and often has nothing to do with the catalyst. So if the catalyst to all this which is really the Zach Balansky argument is the war in Gaza then why is it that if that because one can be critical of Israel >> as I am uh and not why is it that one begins with that and then ends up at Jews run the world. It's an excellent question. I'm I'm glad you brought this up. You know, I've seen Jewish people on media platforms over the last three or four days since the attack happened. And the same line of questioning, and I'm not saying you've done this because you brought it up in a very respectful way, but the same line of questioning I keep seeing is, you know, what about Israel?

[00:19:37]What about Israel? I find that line of questioning personally offensive. I find that that leads into some sort of notion that there's a justification for spilling the blood of innocent Jews on the streets of Great Britain.

[00:19:52]>> Yeah.

[00:19:53]>> There is no justification for anti-semitism. Can we have an open conversation about Israel? For sure.

[00:19:59]>> Yeah.

[00:20:00]>> I'll give you an example. When the attack happened on ambulances, a lot of people said, "Why do Jews have their own ambulances?"

[00:20:08]>> A lot of uh and that question is coming from ignorance. It can be easily answered. The ambulance service is available to all.

[00:20:14]>> Correct. Yeah.

[00:20:15]>> But my point is if your beginning point is I don't like what's happening in Gaza.

[00:20:20]>> I just find it so strange how we go from a legitimate criticism Israeli policy to correct.

[00:20:25]>> Why do Jews have their own ambulances?

[00:20:27]>> Correct. Does And does that happen? I I always ask this question. You know, I you know, Kimmy Bon mentioned security at primary schools. When I grew up as a child, I can remember significantly going to play football against a non-Jewish school and we went there through the gates in our coach and I said, "Where's the security?"

[00:20:47]>> I had no idea that we were different. I had no idea we have security at every single institution. And I bring that up because I always ask myself the question when looking at these type of things.

[00:20:59]Which other community faces this? Which other community after their blood is spilled on the streets of Great Britain are put to a line of questioning about a possible justification?

[00:21:12]>> Yeah.

[00:21:13]>> Because of what's going on in Israelibility and and on top of that, and I don't want to be out of place saying this, but on top of that, we know there are other atrocities. And I'm not saying Israel is an atrocity. I'm not making that analogy. But what I'm saying is is that there are, you know, you don't see Russian people getting stabbed on the streets of Great Britain because of the war in Ukraine.

[00:21:35]>> Yeah.

[00:21:35]>> You don't see it.

[00:21:36]>> No.

[00:21:37]>> So, I'm not sure why it's Well, I I have my own ideas as to why when it comes to the Jewish people, >> it's different.

[00:21:44]>> Yes.

[00:21:44]>> Yeah.

[00:21:45]>> Um, to conclude, how are you feeling about being in the UK? Um, you've got children. you're part of a close-knit community that at the moment is feeling, let's be honest, terrorized.

[00:21:59]>> Um, we are hearing um stories and I think indeed the campaign against anti-semitism has suggested that the number of Jews preparing to leave the country or have already left is at a record 40-year high.

[00:22:13]>> Um, I mean, do you feel safe in Britain at the moment?

[00:22:19]>> I can't. The cipher maybe says it all.

[00:22:21]It's a difficult one. You know, for the first time in my life ever, I've had conversations. One of the messages I sent right after the attack happened to my wife whilst I was in Avitz as a direct message to her was, "Do we go now?" And this is the first time ever as someone that is proudly British >> and part of British society, you know, is this the first time ever that we think we need to start looking ahead?

[00:22:48]What does it look like for Jews in 10 years time? You know, as I said in that interview, because this is unfortunately what I saw, and it's a powerful imagery to have. This is what I saw when I was when I was going around Poland is that you walk through streets where there was bustling Jewish community and there's like the indent and a scratch of a mug and Davidid on the wall and we can say there was once a Jew here >> and are we going to are my grandchildren going to walk through the streets of London on a tour by a guide and they'll see, you know, the front of a of a sh and they'll go, there was once a Jew here. That breaks my heart to even to even contemplate such a thing. So look, I think we are a resilient people.

[00:23:29]Um it's almost in our in our DNA to bounce back and to push on and to move forward. And I think we need to stand up now as proud British Jews and we need to be hopeful about a brighter future.

[00:23:44]There are things that appear to be changing. You know, Kia Starama has now moved away from slogans and said we need action. Because if I have a minute to tell, you know, to talk about, you know, after the Holocaust, there was a slogan.

[00:23:56]There were two words. Never again.

[00:23:58]>> October 7th, never again. Bondi Beach, never again. Heaton Park, never again.

[00:24:04]Never again means nothing.

[00:24:08]>> We need concrete action. And nothing, as I said in an article I wrote this week, nothing's irreversible. We're not at the end, right? We're at the in a sense now it seems like the British people are waking up. We're at the beginning.

[00:24:20]>> Yes.

[00:24:21]>> And we need to stand strong together and build a brighter future for Jews in Great Britain.

[00:24:27]>> Rabbi, thank you very much.

[00:24:28]>> Absolute pleasure. And I really do appreciate you giving me a voice and for our community as well.

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