CHAT W/ AZIRCON - DAO FUNDING PROPOSAL, UPCOMING FEATURES, AND LAND OUTLOOK (SPLINTERLANDS)

Added: 2026-05-19

[00:00:00]Something's happening.

[00:00:05]>> All right. And uh we are live on the recording. Uh this is Afteround and I'm here with the one and only Azeran. It's been a little bit Azeran. So we have a lot to catch up on, but first and foremost, my friend, how are you doing?

[00:00:18]>> I'm doing good. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:20]>> Yeah. Yeah, of course. So, I know you and I have some uh travel coming up. So, I'm glad we were able to sneak this in before the craziness of summer begins, but you know, there's there's a couple things that I have on, you know, my agenda of talking points here. Uh, but honestly, I figured >> we can keep it open-ended. I don't know where you'd like to start. There's there's a lot that's going on within Splinterlands. Um, and I don't know if there's something that is most pressing for you or most exciting for you. So, I leave it up to you and then we can kind of take the conversation as it goes from there. No, I'll leave it up to you. I mean, I can talk about anything and everything. So, why don't you get started? Well, well, then first and foremost, because I know that this is going to be one of the biggest uh one of the biggest questions that I have, but I am very curious to know your thoughts on the funding proposal, and I know you've you've talked about it and you've been uh you know on Hive and your posting and things like that, but now that this is a little bit more long format, I'm I'm curious to know how you feel about it, what your expectations are, and how we as a DAO uh with you as one of its leaders in terms of the uh you know, the SPS token holders, how how you expect us to move forward and and what your hopes I suppose.

[00:01:26]>> Yeah. So, you know, uh the large stakeholders, um myself included, uh none of us like it a lot. Uh and yet, uh we voted for it. Um and because there is no other alternative. So, usually it is easy to choose between a good or a bad alternative, right? because it's usually obvious >> it is often more challenging to choose between the lesser of the two bad alternative and I do not want to say bad but uh questionable alternative so >> we voted for it I support it but um honestly there wasn't too many other options >> okay so what's funny is like I mean this seems like it cascades Right? Because for myself, I I don't have nearly as much SPS and yet >> I found myself in a situation where I reluctantly had to accept that this was the place that we are in and out of the options that we had, >> this really was the best one moving forward as it gives a lot of stability to the team to keep on building.

[00:02:40]>> Um, so I I think you and I are aligned on that. But I to get more into like the the nuts and bolts even though there wasn't much there wasn't much discussion on like how the team will be paid. I I know Dave has some thoughts and I'm sure you've spoken with him, but um you know we're h how do we protect it as a DAO?

[00:02:59]How do we protect the tokens, right?

[00:03:01]Specifically SPS and DEC now, how do we protect those moving forward and and what do you what do you think the team should be doing?

[00:03:10]>> Yeah. So this is also my fundamental responsibility, right? And that is that responsibility is not just to my own pocket my not to my own wallet but to the for the greater good the wallet of the community and the game itself right because now there is not much difference uh we are paying the team uh from the DAO so for all practical purposes this is uh 100% our game now this is DA's game. We pay the salary. Uh so it is our game. That's that's the way it works, right?

[00:03:52]>> So uh protecting our personal assets is the most important thing. And that's why I mean I have always been a very vocal proponent of that. I have always kept that stance over the years and uh uh the stance remained the same. So uh we have to protect value and um we have to make sure that we don't close our shop right and which you know you know it's a >> it's a very valid threat. You are very uh familiar with the space and you know how many games have recently closed and you have played other games uh yourself.

[00:04:34]you don't play that much anymore um for obvious reason >> and you can comment on the industry and you frequently do more than I do. So >> Mhm. So that's that's essentially the status and just before I drift away from it the other option that we had in front of us is essentially team can team can sell the asset cards packs whatever else and take the revenue from uh the community directly.

[00:05:10]But what that entails without that happens without any cushion because team doesn't have much of a cushion at this point.

[00:05:20]>> Mhm.

[00:05:20]>> Right.

[00:05:21]>> So the way uh Dave explained that to us that would require significant downsizing of the team just to protect uh the runway a little bit. Mhm.

[00:05:35]>> Uh and uh the option the other option was you know team can go down to four individual and those four individuals does not include Dave.

[00:05:47]>> Got it.

[00:05:47]>> So we decided that that is not an option we are willing to um pursue. So uh we pursued this option.

[00:05:58]>> Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. I mean I like I said there were not a lot of great options.

[00:06:03]there were a lot of not so great options. So this >> this to me at the very least cuz you brought it up right. We're seeing a lot of projects fail left and right and I think Splinterlands was trying to or Steam Monsters I should say was trying to get ahead of this before it became something existential and for them um you know with us having the assets in the DAO there's a certain uh like breathing a sigh of relief because at the very least now I know split is going to be around for the next two years right and the team which has been doing uh you know a good job with releasing new features is going to continue at that same capacity. But my my question for you and I kind of want to pivot here is we've we've seen them try and we and I shouldn't say them but we as a community and they as a team and a collaboration have tried a lot of different things over the past couple of years and some have worked some. Um how how do you evaluate like what we've done and what you would like to see moving forward right? Should the team be doing anything differently? So, and I I'm gonna frame this, you don't have to go down this route, but like for one of the things that I'm starting to become more vocal on is I think the team has done a great job creating a better game experience.

[00:07:16]It's, you know, leaps and bounds better, but I do think that there is a need to go back and focus on the tokconomics because without getting DEC under control and without getting SPS to go up, we're fighting somewhat of a losing battle still. So, what are some of the things that you would want to see now over the next two years?

[00:07:32]>> Yeah, there there are a lot of things and I'm going to be very vocal about it.

[00:07:35]So I'm you know me that I'm I'm >> the I I I never shy away from controversial things. So first of all uh the comment that I you you just made that Splinterland is going to be around for the next two years. I would not say I would respectfully disagree with you.

[00:07:56]>> Okay.

[00:07:56]>> That it is not a given that Splinterland is going to be around for the next two years. And I explain why.

[00:08:04]uh the reason it is not not given because uh in terms of um and we'll get to uh DAO wallet in a minute but the reason it is not a given because we have to be very diligent about our funds and how manage the business only then we will be existing in two years time >> okay >> if we don't we will not exist just because We passed a proposal that doesn't guarantee that we will exist.

[00:08:38]>> Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay.

[00:08:40]>> For for for two more years. We got to be very good. We got to be better than what we have done in the last two years. Only then we would survive.

[00:08:52]Gotcha. Okay. I don't disagree. You're right. We should call that out.

[00:08:56]>> Yes. So, and now I will tell you that exactly why it is. So, I'm going to go to Clay's um SPS DAO U uh >> Oh, the Treasury.

[00:09:08]>> Treasury. Exactly. So, the last Treasury report, I think it's a month old right now. Uh >> Mhm.

[00:09:15]>> He need to publish another one. The last one is 4:1526. Right after I get off of this, I will um ping him to publish a new one. I'm sure he's already working on it. Can I share my screen real quick?

[00:09:31]Um, on this, >> you should be able to.

[00:09:34]>> Hang on. Let me see. There is a share button right next to the video, right?

[00:09:41]>> Yeah, it should be like the little plus sign. Yeah, share.

[00:09:44]>> Plus sign. Share screen. Okay. Uh, >> and you can choose which screen to share if you don't want to share your entire thing.

[00:09:49]>> I Yeah, I only have one screen here, so I'm going to share screen.

[00:09:53]>> Oh, I think you can share like the tab or something specific.

[00:09:56]>> Ah, I can share a tab. Yeah, there you go. There you go. So, do you see something?

[00:10:01]>> Yep. I'll add that to the stage.

[00:10:04]>> Yes.

[00:10:05]And it is essentially I just open the SPS DAO blog and the Treasury report.

[00:10:12]>> It's public for everybody to see.

[00:10:14]>> Yeah, it's public for everybody to see.

[00:10:15]There is nothing nothing uh uh special that I'm showing here. And all the way down, not the bridges uh and not the total.

[00:10:26]This is the DAO liquid wallet, right?

[00:10:29]So, this >> um and notice it has it has hive uh 1.1 million Hive 178,000 HBD. For the record, I'm a treasurer. Uh full disclosure, people know this, I'm a treasurer. I sign these transactions when these gets moved and sold. So I am confirming the first two line item have already been sold.

[00:10:57]So this is sold. So this should be zero now.

[00:11:00]>> Right? This is sold and moved to >> uh already moved to the team as cash USD. So this is sold for USD >> or equivalent USDC or whatever it was >> the HPD. Yeah.

[00:11:12]>> So yeah both of them both Hive and >> oh Hive and HBD >> both of them are sold. So if you add these two numbers up and the hive we sold actually not for $71,000 we sold it for 92 >> because at that time high was rallying.

[00:11:32]>> So it'sund uh so it's 90 $92,000 and this we sold for like $176 if I remember correctly. So between the two together it was $250,000 approximately.

[00:11:49]>> Right about right about there. So we are supposed to pay the team $166,000 per month. That's how the math works out. Okay. $166,000 per month.

[00:12:04]>> Uh because if you do the math, that's how it uh it works out. So 5,500 per day times 30 days.

[00:12:12]>> Um that's that's how the math works out.

[00:12:14]>> Mhm.

[00:12:15]>> So this now notice all the other things if we ignore everything else is you know this just essentially nothing. So now we will be down to the DEC and SPS that is bulk of the funding.

[00:12:31]>> Yeah.

[00:12:32]>> Bulk of the bulk of the treasury.

[00:12:34]>> The stables are already gone. everything else in the treasury that is stuck in different LPS. So we are not going to move the LPS obviously because that's how we help people bring money into the game. So we should not be removing the LP.

[00:12:51]>> So >> then at this point in time after this $250,000 is gone, it is gone now but team will spend it right over the and make payroll over the next two months. Let's say so 1 month is 166.

[00:13:09]>> So that >> just gives them only two months of uh of a runway.

[00:13:13]>> Little more than a little less than two months, right? It's uh $320,000 in two months. So >> let's for argument purposes, let's assume two months. So this is the month of May.

[00:13:26]I think May and June we are going to be good, right? we do not have to uh reach into our DC and SPS but starting from July uh effectively as we are going to have to pay the team we are going to have to sell either SPS and DC and I'll argue at this point in time they are probably the same for this particular purpose.

[00:13:57]>> Sure. I mean regardless I mean it's a game token and if we have to sell it in the market it becomes a sale I mean becomes the same for all practical purposes right >> so >> I will pause for a little bit and I will get into little bit more detail but I will I want you to digest because I don't think you discussed or have all this information like the hive and HBD being sold I don't think it is publicly ever mentioned uh uh at least as a post.

[00:14:30]I think uh Clay actually pinned a post in the SPS um uh holders channel that that has happened.

[00:14:40]>> So that's I'm going to pause now and I'll let you continue and we can stop this sharing um easily or you can keep it. It's up to you.

[00:14:48]>> We'll just keep it up there for people to see if they want to follow along. Um, so I I did have a chance to talk with Dave recently, so I didn't know about the the Hive and HBD, so that's new information, but my my understanding from Dave and I think he was just trying to pick my brain on something. So this is not necessarily like new or groundbreaking information, but his general strategy from what it sounded like was he's very averse to the DAO having to sell DEEC and SPS. And so in their planning for July onwards, a lot of what he's considering right now and I again I don't know what the the details are and I don't think it's finalized by any means but he's trying to figure out a way in which uh the things that the team will be working on and selling will be done outside of these tokens. And I think if he's able to be successful in that said his his goal is to at least give us a runway until the end of the year without having to sell DEEC and SPS because to your point right at at this point it doesn't matter DEEC SPS like there's um I hate to say it but it's somewhat of a of a death spiral right if the Dow is selling it it's a loss of confidence there's already a lack of demand um I don't know how many more people would go and the the only thing that you can really buy right now are starter packs for DEEC and obviously land and all the other areas. Um, and then I suppose you can buy uh escalation packs for SPS, but even even those are already more than like a 50 60% discount. So like at sure at a certain point we recycle some of that SPS back into the Dow and that's fine, but the damage to the token price is already going to be had. So I I can understand his concern and I'm I'm sure that's a concern that you share too, right, as as one of the the Dow treasures and me as a stakeholder.

[00:16:33]when he said that um it gave me a a lot of re reassurance not necessarily that he'll be successful but at least he's keeping this in mind as we move forward cuz on paper it looks like a lot right it's almost $4 million there in DC and SPS but the moment it starts being sold that value starts to drop because the team needs to convert it to cash >> yes yes and this is the bit people don't understand people people see a static number >> and they said okay it's a proposal 2 million a year. So in two years is $4 million. We have $4 million. You know, >> we're just going to draw the account and we are going to ride into the sunset.

[00:17:13]But we don't we're not going to ride into the sunset, right? So let's talk about those plans, right? Let's let's talk about those plans a little bit.

[00:17:22]>> And u I don't first let's first not talk about what team is going to sell. Let's first talk about something else entirely and you are very aware of it. This is something you are passionate about. It's the credit cells right?

[00:17:39]>> So there is a credit cell aspect to it.

[00:17:42]>> So as for people who are not aware of it or do not pay attention to it um team sells credit to players, right? So when players use a PayPal or a Venmo or some crypto to buy credit from game to buy an in-game item be it card, be it pack whatever when the credit purchase happens uh that is a backdoor DC transaction and you know you are very well aware of it.

[00:18:20]Yeah.

[00:18:20]>> So when people buy credit, they receive credit like let's say you want to pay $1,000.

[00:18:28]You want to put $1,000.

[00:18:31]$1,000 transfers to 1 million credit which is also 1 million DC at peg, right? So that's sort of uh the metric.

[00:18:40]But you know it is credits are essentially US dollar currency but in game it doesn't really have a token because you do not really get a token.

[00:18:50]>> What happens if you use the credit to buy something it's like a coupon right?

[00:18:56]>> Mhm.

[00:18:56]>> So whatever you buy that item is paid in DC and in the back end team transfer the equivalent amount of DC to the seller.

[00:19:08]So effectively seller receives the DEC as if they made a sale and your credit is deducted as if you bought that item using the DEC >> and it's done at the US dollar value.

[00:19:22]Yeah. Market value.

[00:19:23]>> It's all marked to market at US dollar value. Right. So in other words, what is happening if if this proposal wasn't the reality in the previous time right in previous time what team would do team would team has their own coffer of DC like a reserve of DC and that reserves dwindles and it's a wallet that people can track uh As as people buy credit, team slowly transferred DC to the people >> indirectly like the way I explained it.

[00:20:05]Right?

[00:20:06]>> Previously as team run out of DC, team has two options.

[00:20:13]>> They can go into the market and buy DEC using cash or cash equivalent whatever it is, right? They can just go to the market and buy DC. Team has done that in the past or if it is near the peg if DC is near the peg and actually team has done it well below the peg also team can burn SPS to generate DEC and use the DEC to pay for the credit right team has done that in the past. So now what team is going to do um team is going to receive the DEC from the DAO and use that DEC to send to players in a proxy of credit correct so there is a there there is that mechanism now the general and this is information that they've shared in multiple public places so this is not a secret. Uh the requirement is $5,500 a day. That's just the proposal. That is public information. Right?

[00:21:22]>> Y >> now the actual true expense is less than that. But let's for argument sake, let's say that is the requirement 5,500 or 5,000 whatever that number is because there is always a little bit of cushion, right? $5,000 a day.

[00:21:39]uh over a long period of time they've averaged our credit sales per day and that varies like $2,500 to $3,000 a day.

[00:21:53]>> Mhm. So you realize that so if our requirement is $5,000 a day and if we do a credit sale of um average of $3,000 a day, we are little bit in a deficit but we are at least covering 60% of our requirement without going into the market and selling DC. Yeah, that's that's actually a lot higher than I was expecting, which is good news.

[00:22:27]>> Mhm.

[00:22:27]>> Right. So, this is not selling any additional item. No additional item, just background maintenance purchase um uh by team. So, and you know, uh I'm going to share uh I'm going to can I stop sharing that and share something else?

[00:22:45]>> Yeah, you can.

[00:22:47]>> I guess it >> Yeah. And I'm going to share again. I'm this time share.

[00:22:55]Yes. And I'm going to share my Splinterland screen.

[00:23:00]Okay. So, do you see my Splinterland screen?

[00:23:04]>> Mhm.

[00:23:05]>> Okay. So, this is my account as you can as you can see. Yeah, that's me. And this is essentially, you know, this is the rank battle page. Hopefully, please do not crash. And you can just go to this credit thing and this plus sign and you come in here. So previously, let's say I want to buy $1,000 using PayPal, right? So $1,000 is going to be 1 million, right?

[00:23:31]>> Yeah.

[00:23:31]>> Previously, we would get exactly $1,000 worth in credit. Remember that we passed a proposal.

[00:23:39]>> Now team is passing the fee to us.

[00:23:43]>> Yes.

[00:23:44]>> Right. So now if I if I click the PayPal button, I would be paying $35 of transaction fee.

[00:23:52]>> Yeah. Three and a half%.

[00:23:54]>> Right. Which is the standard credit card transaction fee. Correct.

[00:23:57]>> Yeah.

[00:23:58]>> And I think what people don't realize is that the team was eating this before and so they were just like this was just detrimental to their balance sheet.

[00:24:06]>> Yes. So now there is a cheaper option.

[00:24:09]The cheaper option is the crypto.

[00:24:12]So crypto fees are less, right? So that's for the same amount is um $10, right? So that's that's 1%, right?

[00:24:25]>> But what we can do, and I'm going to do it um right here. So 99 I just transferred um uh $1,000 into my uh MetaMask account. So, I think it would be 900.

[00:24:43]Yeah. So, that's that's $1,000, right?

[00:24:45]>> So, $9.99 and I can hit buy and let's see. Do I can I get it? No, this is BBP.

[00:24:56]>> No. So, this I have to put it in the Binance um thing. I put it in the base um >> Oh, wallet. Yeah.

[00:25:05]>> Yeah, they do not have base. You can you can you can put that. So, I'm not going to do live. So, uh that's fine because that will that will take time. But the point is essentially I can I can purchase a $1,000 worth of um uh worth of credit and team will essentially get $1,000 from me and I am going to get $1,000 worth of DC in the background. I the DC doesn't show up in my account but effectively when I use the credit to purchase whatever that I want to purchase I'm effectively using the DC.

[00:25:44]So that is one mechanism >> of not selling DC in the market to raise cash.

[00:25:55]>> You mean to cover the funding proposal?

[00:25:58]>> Right.

[00:25:58]>> Yeah. Yeah. And they they spoke to this and I understand it. So that that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:04]>> Because those track everything else, >> right? Those are tracked now. But I do not know, you understand it obviously, but I do not know how many people realize it actually. So >> that is one mechanism.

[00:26:16]>> Yeah.

[00:26:16]>> So that is about 60% of their expense that can be covered using that. Mhm.

[00:26:24]>> Now provided there is also some assumption here right provided the demand like that this is the background demand the background demand stays about the same >> which may or may not be may not be the case right this is the background demand >> now obviously and that brings us to the second point that they can potentially now have items other items like remember the Christmas pack sale uh not back sale the item Winterfest. Yeah. And I think they're going to do something similar for summer, >> right? So I think that sale was either 40 or $60,000 something like that.

[00:27:05]>> So yeah, so there will be a similar thing in summer and again this is public information also. Dave already mentioned it. So you know about this, community knows about this. So, you know, give or take, I expect, you know, maybe $50,000 worth of sale from there, right? So, um it's it's it's nothing very big. It's it's >> No, that's it's not even half a month, >> right? That's not even half a month. So, I realize that, right? So basically then immediately you are in a situation um if it is a month so that maybe covers July and then so you you see the differences so every month you have to come up with with things past June July every month you are going to have to come up with items large items not $50,000 worth of sales larger items that you are going to sell over extended period of time. And these items got to be good enough, got to be desirable enough for people to buy. And hopefully these buys are not in DC.

[00:28:26]And you know why that is, right? Because we have the DC.

[00:28:30]>> We we we want something else. Yeah, >> stables, right? That would be my preference. That would be my preference and my recommendation.

[00:28:41]>> So, we will have to purchase this in stables.

[00:28:46]>> Yeah.

[00:28:46]>> If we don't want to put a lot of sell pressure um on DC >> and so I I'm glad that you went here. I had a feeling you were going to take us in this direction. Um, I I I've advocated for it in the past, but also in, you know, my recent call with with Dave, things would just be so much easier for the team if we didn't have to do this back and forth transitioning of DEC, especially because the market value um is is as volatile and as down as it is. Mhm.

[00:29:13]>> So, um, you know, it's is it I I this is this is kind of why like I've been leaning towards this whole there's enough there's enough products out there, land, guilds, uh, wild pass, certain things. Maybe the team could add more here and there that still allowed DEEC to be a product back stable coin at which you're getting like 40 50%, you know, uh, discount or 50% plus discount.

[00:29:37]Um, but I I was saying to him and hopefully he was listening to me and it sounds like you're probably saying the same thing. I I think many of the things that come in the future, whether it's the the Summerfest boxes or even some of the pack sales, I really think you should consider selling in stable coins or for for USD denominated terms. Um because then then at that point the the team gets exactly what they're looking for and we don't go through this back and forth with DEC, >> right? See, one of the reason our game economy did so well over the years compared to many other games is our cards though are valued at USD, right?

[00:30:16]They have always been.

[00:30:18]>> That's an interesting thought. Yeah, you're right.

[00:30:21]>> Right. because we could have made our cards in I don't know SPS then that would have completely tanked our economy right completely tanked our economy there won't be anybody here >> at least they are >> they are valued in um USD and they have always been so they will always continue to be >> that is not what we are asking what we are asking is don't give people the option, right? Or encourage people one way or the other to use a stable coin to buy the product, >> right? The product.

[00:31:07]>> Yeah.

[00:31:09]>> No, think about it. Think about Rooney for example.

[00:31:12]>> Mhm.

[00:31:14]How did like DAO had a significant holding of ETH which is now in different LPS traditionally been we sold some >> some some is in um LPS.

[00:31:28]>> How did that ETH get into the DAO from the Rooney sale?

[00:31:32]>> Yeah.

[00:31:34]>> Which was exclusively sold for ETH.

[00:31:37]>> For ETH at the time. And yeah, >> at the time and the the original idea was we are going to get people from ETH chain. Um that never >> that never really happened but at least people like our people bought ETH and used the ETH to buy Rooney.

[00:31:59]>> Yeah. Well, and you know what's interesting about that? This was back in late 2022 and the DAO hadn't been formally, you know, separated from the team the way that it is now. So, it's funny because the team >> the team made that sale yet the funds didn't go to the team. It went to the Dow.

[00:32:16]>> Yeah.

[00:32:17]>> Yeah.

[00:32:17]>> So, I I I mean, I get it like we we had this separation and at first I was just like, "Oh, that you know, everybody's saying that the team is just raiding the Dow for all this stuff." But >> at the end of the day, it was it was the team that loaded the Dow with all of this in the first place. It's always teams money, right? You know, I have always said that >> whatever if if the current value of the DAO treasury is $4 million, >> I am completely happy to give the $4 million to the team.

[00:32:44]>> Yeah, >> there is no problem.

[00:32:47]>> There is no problem from me personally to give them that money.

[00:32:51]>> But that's not the point. The point is, you know, that is not what we are after.

[00:32:57]We are after to create value. If we just >> disperse the value and then you know we're done essentially right >> and we close shop right uh >> we have to create value and the way we create value is to create demand >> because right now we do not have enough demand for our products.

[00:33:19]>> Sure. And the way we create demand, we make our items desirable by whichever way. And desirable means different things to different people.

[00:33:32]>> Sure, >> something can be desirable to you, but it may not be desirable to me. I say, "Oh, why do I need that piece of shit?"

[00:33:40]Right? Mhm.

[00:33:41]>> Uh so in other words, we got to make many products that are desirable to many clients, many type of clients, and only then we can always have a steady flow of income.

[00:33:59]>> Yeah.

[00:34:01]All right, Paul, there's there's so many different directions we could go from here just because you're a wealth of knowledge with this. Um I do want to get your opinion on two specific things though. Um first one will be short but the the idea of the Dow creating value. We always look at that through the lens of what we're doing within Splinterlands.

[00:34:21]But are there some areas in which the DAO should be exploring even to just diversify income outside of Splinterlands? Whether that's staking ETH or staking stable coins in some DeFi platform. I I know those all come with risks, but at least it's not denominated in Splinterlands related tokens and the Dow is using its assets to continue building further assets diversified outside. So that's the that's the first question and then the second question is um related to that if we're looking to build value in the game, what like let's say let's say you were in Dave's role, like what is it that what is it that you want to see, right?

[00:34:57]What what have you seen that has worked well the past 3, four years and has not?

[00:35:01]And what do you want to see that's different?

[00:35:03]>> Okay, the first question is easily answered. So let's let's answer the first question. Uh we like to do it but technically we cannot and I'll tell you why. First of all, we don't have the money, >> right? Because the money that we have which is in DC and SPS, if we want to stake something somewhere, we have to sell that money to convert it to ETH or whatever else and then stake it. So that's counter counterproductive.

[00:35:31]>> Well, and we just sold everything that we already had to pay.

[00:35:33]>> We sold everything else that we already have. So right now we just have the EC and SPS and we cannot sell them.

[00:35:40]>> That would create selling pressure on our own market. So we can >> So too late for that. Okay.

[00:35:46]>> Too late for that. So that's that's done. The other thing I'm going to say is moot point because I already said it's too late for that. The other thing is what you are asking and this has this has been suggested in the past multiple times. Okay. The way DAO operates operates as a community. So it operates on a vote. So what you are trying to say that DAO becomes like an investment manager, right? Like a fund manager of an asset, right?

[00:36:19]>> Mhm. That never works very well if you are talking about distributed financing or distributed governance. Right.

[00:36:28]>> Sure.

[00:36:28]>> Because people will have strongly different opinion on how you are going to invest >> like your opinion would be different from my opinion.

[00:36:39]>> So how would how would we how would we select which opinion is better right?

[00:36:46]The one way we can do is buy a vote. And many people do not like that anyway, right? For for in-game decisions, people don't like that also. They say, "Oh, whales are completely controlling the game and they're ruining the game, right?" So, >> yeah. But but to to that point real quick though, like if you and Brave Tofu and Buck got together, >> again, maybe I'll have some issues with what specifically you choose, but at the end of the day, it's more so directionally correct, right? Do I agree with you directionally that we want to start building assets that are able to earn outside of Splinterlands? And it's like, you know, um, >> yes, I I don't know. I mean, I get I get your point. It's a mood point right now just because we're in >> it doesn't matter anyway.

[00:37:29]>> We're in survival mode. But yeah, >> I I am so glad that it doesn't matter right now because me being the position that I am in if I have to manage that like Dow investing money for the people >> that is like dangerous water and you know honestly this is being crypto and all of that but still like if it is real world money you cannot legally do that anyway.

[00:37:58]>> Okay.

[00:37:58]>> Right. because uh you you need to be a certified financial advisor to do that.

[00:38:05]>> Uh and that's >> even if it all stays within even if it all stays within crypto.

[00:38:10]>> It within crypto it's a gray area, right?

[00:38:14]Within crypto there is no requirement of us being certified financial um >> Sure. Sure. Okay.

[00:38:21]>> officers.

[00:38:22]>> But there is a reason that law exists in real world, right? Of course. because people do not swindle with your with your money or community's money, right?

[00:38:34]That's why that law exists.

[00:38:36]>> Yeah.

[00:38:36]>> So that that law exists for a very good reason. And me being very grounded to the real world, I would always protect that part of the law. I will always call for that part of the law.

[00:38:50]>> Okay.

[00:38:51]>> Right. Because who tells me like you are you are a good financial manager? You don't want to get a knock on your door, >> right? I I do not want a knock on my door. I do not want I do not want to touch it with a seven foot long pole.

[00:39:06]>> That's That's a really really bad waters, right?

[00:39:09]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:10]>> And we are in hot waters regardless for other reasons. You do not want to you do not want to put us in any more u hot water.

[00:39:19]>> Sure. Okay.

[00:39:21]>> All right. So, that's question one. What about question two? Looking at it through the game lens. Yeah. So your question specifically was what was done in the past and how can we do things differently, right? That that is >> what well more so what what do you want to see? I mean how however you want to frame that that's fine. I was just saying like are there things in the past that you'd want to see done again or do you want to try new things? I I I'm just trying to put you in the CEO position for a second since you do have Dave's ear. like what are the things that you want to see with us moving forward now with because we have to manage things better >> and again I I I am very conservative on that front and I already said uh what I really want I want to see more value >> I want to see value created for the DAO and how you create value you create you got to create you got to make a product that people want to buy and that that is true everywhere in the world right you make a product and you sell that product and you make a product that people want to buy. Okay?

[00:40:28]>> And that's how you create value. And that's what every single decision that will happen from this point onward >> somebody got to answer that question to me personally that how is that creating value.

[00:40:44]>> Okay. Well, so I want to hear some specifics from you. Do you have any ideas for what it is or you just want the team to check in with you? No, no, no. I mean team already checks in with me for the last several years. So this is nothing nothing new.

[00:40:58]>> This is nothing new. And not just me, with other stakeholders too, right?

[00:41:02]Correct. Uh >> no proposal goes out without checking uh with the top stakeholders and that's the way it should be and that's the way it has been uh happening for a long time.

[00:41:12]>> Well, at the end of the day, for people that may have an issue with that, you guys are the ones spending the most money in the game, too.

[00:41:18]>> Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. you are the customers that they're trying to build that value for, >> right? And you know, essentially the game is co-owned by us at this point in time because we we make the we make the payroll also, right?

[00:41:31]>> Mhm.

[00:41:32]>> So, uh yeah. So, what how or what exactly uh do I like to see? I I like to see things being sold.

[00:41:45]Not everything but a few things being sold for USDC.

[00:41:51]>> Okay.

[00:41:51]>> That is that is that is one of my pet peeves and I will continue to push it.

[00:41:57]>> Mhm.

[00:41:58]>> It doesn't have to be everything but it has to be something.

[00:42:02]>> Sure.

[00:42:02]>> And it will come to that regardless. And this is why I publicly I have said it many times there is there is some resistance on that also.

[00:42:13]>> Mhm. I mean from multiple people and the resistance is okay. I mean I the I have I have complete respect uh towards the people who has those resistance >> but >> if you don't mind me asking and you don't need to give names but is that resistance that comes from other like top stakeholders as well >> or it does it does >> it does okay because I I see I see it in a lot of like the comments but I don't know how much SPS these people are holding right so >> no no this comes from the highest of the high stakeholder stakeholder so got it >> and you know the names are very obvious Yes. So there you already know the names. So uh and therefore I say the the reasons are very valid and you know I I I actually 100% agree with those reasons but again the decisions are going to be like in four to six months we are going to be at a point that we won't have any more choices. We will run out. We already are out of choices. We do not have any more stables.

[00:43:22]>> Yeah.

[00:43:22]>> That we can sell in the DAO. We are out of stables. We are out of non SPS assets in the DAO that we can sell. So unless we have non the non SPS asset are not magically going to appear in the DAO, right? We have to sell something to get those non SPS assets and that's what I'm after. So it is it got to be USD stables are the easiest. They will have the least amount of argument in terms of you know people to pass a proposal. It will have the least it would be the easiest proposal to pass if we are passing it right. So, so it got to be stables.

[00:44:11]>> Got it. Okay. I I mean I I don't disagree on that. I I I hope >> and that will happen in three months as well.

[00:44:19]>> In three months time that will happen from from from today it'll h it has to happen within the three months time >> because >> okay we'll be out by then.

[00:44:28]>> There's no other way.

[00:44:30]>> Okay. So selling things in stables. Um, I I'm definitely aligned to that and I I've been pushing for that too. Anything else you want to see from the game feature-wise or >> the the brackets that that is already passed, it is coming. We know we need to >> and it's unfortunate that we are back to square one. Uh, we should have never >> let it go.

[00:44:58]>> So, that was all Matt by the way. that that is 100% all Matt and uh it was his mistake and he now knows that because >> oh he he considers it a mistake >> well he he's a uh stubborn guy so he I do not know what he considers fair enough >> but the result the result >> I don't want to put words in his mouth right yeah I don't want to put words in his mouth okay >> so the result speaks for themselves right >> it we know that it it is a mistake because you know the prices are telling you that the Community is telling you that community passed a proposal.

[00:45:32]Community wants that. So there you go.

[00:45:35]You clearly have been wrong. Uh that has been proven.

[00:45:39]>> Okay.

[00:45:40]>> So now there is just because the bracket will come back, league will come back, that doesn't magically means now everything is going to be rosy, right?

[00:45:52]Because >> it is very easy to break something. It is very difficult to create to bring people back >> right >> you you know you have friends that has left the game for >> whatever reason variety of different reason each person's had different reason right you have close friends >> that you have you have done shows with them they're not in the game right now.

[00:46:16]>> Yeah.

[00:46:18]>> Do you think just because you you bring the brackets back they're going to be back in the game? No, because it was usually multiple things that caused them to leave and maybe that was the straw that broke the camel's back or it was something, you know, something bigger.

[00:46:33]>> Yeah. So, just because we bring back brackets back doesn't mean we we bring, you know, all the players back. I mean, I don't think we'll bring even 10% of the players back. I mean, that would be big deal bringing 10% back.

[00:46:48]>> I I I agree. My I don't mean to say this as being dismissive of the players who left, but I would say that the value what that I'd be more excited about is the new potential players coming in or or a higher retention rate by offering something for when these players do come check the game out, which we know that they are.

[00:47:07]>> Are they going to stick around because now they don't need to spend thousands of dollars on a deck. They can just play in XYZ bracket or ABC bracket, whatever it is. And maybe that will cause them to stick around. I am glad we arrived here on the nuclear.

[00:47:26]I knew we are going to arrive here at some point in time whichever way and we we took a torturous path but we arrived.

[00:47:33]>> Um uh after sound we we have we had new players come in. Uh Dave says that we have 13,000 new players came in. Uh >> um but that is that is not the problem and none of them stuck around.

[00:47:50]>> Stuck around. Yeah.

[00:47:51]>> Right. So that's that's the problem.

[00:47:54]Zero. The the sticking around rate is essentially zero >> really. Okay.

[00:47:59]>> Yeah. Essentially zero.

[00:48:02]>> Uh so bringing players that is not an issue.

[00:48:09]That is not an issue. There are the issues are twofold.

[00:48:13]Bringing players that will spend money in the game.

[00:48:18]That's number one. And number two, why they're going to spend money. Two reasons, right? Either the game is great as a game, right? And they really love it and uh that's why they're spending money. Or number two, they're spending money to get a return because it is a play to earn game.

[00:48:39]>> Yeah. invest to earn gain right because it's the crypto space web three >> so one or the one or the other >> right that is what we got to do and u it is not easy and I do not think we have a formula and I'm not blaming the team >> sure if I knew it >> if I know I would share it >> well I would happily do >> it's not just splinterland struggling I mean the entire web3 crypto gaming space is struggling So, >> and now think about it. Now, take a step back and think about it. Why is that?

[00:49:14]Right? The web three game did a big rally in 2020 2021.

[00:49:22]>> Why? Because world was stuck. They lost their job. Large amount of the world, almost 100% of the world was stuck in front of their computer due to COVID.

[00:49:34]>> Yeah.

[00:49:35]>> Right. A huge amount of people lost their job and they have nothing to do but they got a little bit of money from paycheck or you know insurance check this or that you know if if it is this country government uh you know gave you some amount of money.

[00:49:54]>> Sure. Yeah.

[00:49:55]>> So, you lost your job, but you got a severance package. And let's just call it a severance package by accumulating all of this, right? Tax, this, government help, this and that.

[00:50:07]>> Call it severance package. You got a severance package and you had time in your hand and you wanted to do something with with that time. So, that money went into crypto. A large amount of that money went into crypto and that time went into different things and also these games.

[00:50:28]>> These games. Yeah.

[00:50:30]>> Right. So we got money.

[00:50:33]>> We got money and we got time. So obviously all of it went up.

[00:50:39]>> Right. So that that was that was the thing. I don't think people talk about it enough.

[00:50:45]>> We just did not had money. We just we had money and time. That's why everything went up. And as soon as everything went up, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? You you see your token value going up and you share it with people. Hey, look, I invested in this Splinterland and now I'm buying my mother-in-law a car. And you post it on Twitter and people see, oh, look at this guy. this guy is buying his mother-in-law a car by playing a game.

[00:51:19]>> I want some of that action.

[00:51:21]>> So, why don't I do that? So, that's how that's how it happened. Right.

[00:51:27]>> Interesting. Now, you know, I never connected those dots before going all the way back to 2020.

[00:51:34]>> Okay. Well, >> we cannot bring in another pandemic.

[00:51:40]>> You know, my you know, my mind, I I don't want to go down this route. Maybe I'll do the same for that video. But, you know, with with all the geopolitical conflict and I, you know, the oil and restrictions, I'm like, well, you know, who knows? May maybe there'll be a different kind of lockdown in the future. People have time and money on their hands again, >> right? No, I I don't think COVID was a very interesting thing. You know, it's a black swan.

[00:52:02]>> It was very unique. Yeah. Very unique.

[00:52:04]>> Very unique. If if you told me like something like COVID would have happened in 2018 2019 I would have laughed at your face. I mean >> I have I have read similar things in books right you know World War Z you know >> zombie apocalypse this and that we have read it in the books but the reality was more strange than the books even. Yeah.

[00:52:28]Yeah.

[00:52:29]>> I have never thought whole world will be in a lockdown for an extended period of time.

[00:52:37]>> Yeah.

[00:52:37]>> And people had money in their hand.

[00:52:39]That's the other thing that I would have known.

[00:52:41]>> Do we are from Houston this is this is a known you know everybody knows this fact.

[00:52:47]>> Have you seen you know how the Houston property m market rallied in 2021 2022?

[00:52:53]>> It was crazy. Yeah. If you have said that to me, the world is going through a pandemic, people are losing their jobs, they lost their job and the property market went through the roof, I would have laughed at your face.

[00:53:07]>> I know. I know. It's uh it was a very strange time. A lot of things happened that you would never expect. Um >> Right.

[00:53:16]>> Just And the things that you >> Yeah. Things that you did expect didn't happen. So you know think about it like take a look at Houston like suburbial Houston houses they went double suburbial Houston not inside the city not inside the inner loop >> like in Tombal I have a rental property I have multiple rental properties in uh uh Tombal >> you know and this is my my my house this is this is my house in Tombal that you know I still have the house you know we we we bought the house for like $200,000 and it went to 350 and this is in Tombal, middle of nowhere.

[00:53:54]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty far out there, >> right? This is far out there and you know a like within two years a $150,000 rally in price. Uh that is unbelievable.

[00:54:06]>> I know Tombal market in two years tombal houses either stay flat or go down.

[00:54:14]That's what happens to tombal houses previously. I mean, Houston is not a hot property market and Tombal is definitely not a hot.

[00:54:23]>> Yeah. You would not think that.

[00:54:25]>> Same thing in Katy, right? You know, Katy houses, you know, they went double in two years. There are there are houses in Katy who went double.

[00:54:33]>> Yeah.

[00:54:33]>> And you know, who would have thought?

[00:54:35]Who would have thought in the middle of pandemic?

[00:54:39]>> Yeah. No, no, it was a it was a wild time. Okay, hold on. Wait. This is obviously fascinating for us to talk about but um in the interest of time because we do have to wrap up shortly. I do want to absolutely I want I want to bring it back to Spur Lens and I am going to keep it tangentially related because the last topic and we'll just touch on it briefly is not >> Houston real estate but digital real estate. So what are what are your thoughts on where land is right now? You can just give us kind of the brief overview. I I know things are somewhat on hold or slow because of cryptomancer but yes >> um I I know land is a big passion for you too. It's something that we talk about quite a bit. Yes. So we we know about the slowness due to cryptomaner and there is nothing we can do about it. If we are dependent on one person one individual things like this will happen. We know that this happen this can happen right because personal things happen and you know >> if you are dependent on one individual you know this is this is totally expected.

[00:55:36]That said um hopefully some of it is behind now. I think he's back at work um um at least in >> at least in some capacity. So I expect things to pick up um in the next couple of months.

[00:55:55]Uh that said, you know, our land resources, we need new things in land, which is what he is working on. Um >> but I don't think that is coming anytime soon. I do not think that is coming before the fourth quarter >> at least and and that is that is wishful thinking.

[00:56:17]>> Yeah.

[00:56:18]>> So we got to do something else with the things that we already have.

[00:56:23]>> Okay.

[00:56:23]>> So we will probably do something with uh something that we already have and make a product that people is willing to buy.

[00:56:34]And that that's always been my pet peeve. We need to have product in land that people is willing to buy.

[00:56:41]>> Mhm.

[00:56:43]>> Yeah.

[00:56:44]>> What one thing that Dave mentioned to me um which I hadn't really thought about but it makes complete sense is the reason we have the wild pass uh wild permit is so that people can't buy cards one time and earn in perpetuity, right?

[00:56:58]Just forever.

[00:57:00]>> And and we actually have that same problem with land. You could just buy a plot of land. You could buy some cards and you earn whatever you know at the very minimal grain.

[00:57:08]>> Yes.

[00:57:08]>> In perpetuity. So there do there does need to be some safeguarding there.

[00:57:12]>> Absolutely.

[00:57:13]>> And it shouldn't be done in a way where it it hurts the experience and it goes negative. But >> it incentivizes and encourages um what's the word I'm looking for? Like optimization, right? You have to you have to be efficient in how you manage your your land resources in order to come out ahead. Just because you have bought a legacy card, a beta card in 2017, 2018 doesn't mean you are going to forever earn based on that card. Right.

[00:57:42]>> You're I mean even on a oil well that doesn't happen. The production actually drops dramatically.

[00:57:48]>> Mhm.

[00:57:49]>> Uh you know the oil wells go go through depreciation like significant depreciation the first couple of years.

[00:57:59]You know in Midland Basin Wales the first couple of months are good and then it is all down from there.

[00:58:05]>> Yeah.

[00:58:06]>> So we make money based on tax write off.

[00:58:09]We don't make money on the product uh based on the investment. Okay.

[00:58:13]>> Yeah.

[00:58:14]>> And and that is reality. So you you cannot have that that is one of the things I'm going to push very hard on >> and uh >> that just because you bought some beta card uh in the past and haven't spent a dollar since uh your returns will drop.

[00:58:33]I mean we will make sure it will drop. I will personally make sure it will >> Okay, that that is that is my influence.

[00:58:43]That is my promise to you. Okay, fair enough.

[00:58:46]>> Right. And it is not going to be quick.

[00:58:48]It is going to be slow process. You know, >> actually the the buildings that crypto monster building >> uh if you think about it, that is one thing that is directly related to that.

[00:59:02]>> Yeah. Maintenance. Well, I've been thinking about that a lot lately and it's just what we're missing in land right now to stop it from >> doing what it's doing is maintenance. Uh which sucks because people are going to look at that the wrong way. But I was planning I'll probably still make a video about it. I just wanted to get your your thoughts on that real quick.

[00:59:17]>> Yeah. Yeah, do make a video about it because you know and and and make that thing just because >> just because you have oil well it it doesn't mean it is going to give you oil at the same rate forever. That doesn't happen.

[00:59:31]>> Yeah. The rate declines.

[00:59:33]>> Yeah. Um All right. Well, this was awesome. I mean, you and I could probably talk about Splitter Lens all day every day for for quite a bit of time, but I'm glad we were able to do this. Um hopefully after uh our respective travels, maybe a little bit later in the summer when there's some other major announcements that the team has in terms of their direction, we can reconnect. But um yes.

[00:59:52]>> Yeah. Any any any last thoughts that you want to share, Azakan?

[00:59:55]>> No, this is this is great and you know, let's uh happy summer travels for uh both of us and uh let's let's talk back after we get back.

[01:00:04]>> Sounds great. Well, I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your knowledge and insight, especially from the the conversation that you're able to have. So, um, yeah, I would just keep chugging along with Splinter Lens and see where things goes. But thank you for coming on.

[01:00:17]>> All right. Thank you. Bye.

[01:00:18]>> Bye.