Shane Jones On New Govt Loan To Move Away From Gas Energy

Added: 2026-05-26

[00:00:00]On then with our next interview, I was at Parliament yesterday the post cabinet press conference got it was a cast of thousands the Prime Minister Simeon Brown Nicola Willis and Shane Jones was there and what they were doing was an announcing a new scheme for the government to underwrite bank loans for businesses who wish wish to transition away from using gas as their power source or to reduce their list their use of gas or make their use of gas more efficient. Let's talk about that policy first shall we Shane Jones how much is that likely to cost us what's the risk of that policy?

[00:00:49]Hey morning folks well the bottom line it is interventionist but then I like the fact that the crown is willing to intervene because successive governments have decided that this net zero for journey is something that's morally worth the effort so if that's the case then I think that we've got to spread the cost 1.2 billion dollars if necessary go back into the cookie jar and get some more likely to be 50 billion 50 million sorry worth of exposure according to treasury should we be doing it?

[00:01:26]You could argue from a particularly Calvinistic way the crown should have nothing to do with it but the bottom line is a lot of these firms are going to wither on the vine unless someone facilitates the journey it's less that it's less that it's less about gas it's about affordability and at the moment they're marooned with high costs they may not go to electricity they may go to something else and if they go to coal I really don't care. I'd rather see businesses transitioning to an affordable type of energy, keeping people employed, and um growing exports or growing local um Okay. Let's Let's just for me as someone who's not, you know, a government minister, why is that costing us 1.2 billion? I thought you were just going to underwrite the loans. So, if they went bad, you'd cover them.

[00:02:21]No, what I said is that the scheme is likely to represent 1.2 billion dollars worth of loans. It's It's It's not government money. No, that's It is money that banks Okay.

[00:02:35]>> will allocate. Yeah. Uh the banks will allocate. Okay. And And there's a possible loss of 48 million there. You're saying if the loans go bad, Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you've provisioned for 40. So, that's not a lot of money, 48 million in the context of a government budget. That means if a loan goes bad, you'll cover the banks. That means they can loan 1.2 billion dollars worth of transitional finance at a slightly lower interest rate than they would have without the government guarantee, right?

[00:03:09]That's what they've told us. Yeah. Okay.

[00:03:11]Cool.

[00:03:12]You also announced yesterday that you're going to be seeking ways to get more accurate information out of our energy markets.

[00:03:20]What is that in relation to, and who hasn't been telling you the truth?

[00:03:27]Yeah, well, look, Simeon um I think Simeon's taking the actual legislation through. Mhm. Look, it's tricky, Sean.

[00:03:34]Uh the gas is diminishing. Uh at some point, Methanex we're told is going to move on. There'll be uh the availability of some more gas.

[00:03:42]We've got to store it somewhere, so that's another fight.

[00:03:45]Uh the problem is that the um gen tailors, these are these um villainous um power companies, they have the power um the uh flex to pay more for gas than other industrial users. So, we've got this bizarre situation where the um Persian Gulf War has meant that it's a struggle to bring all the inputs in that the agricultural sector needs, such as um fertilizer.

[00:04:13]Right.

[00:04:14]>> And if you can get it, it's very expensive. But, we have a fertilizer production company in New Zealand called Ballance.

[00:04:21]It's struggling to maintain its production because it cannot afford to buy gas. Why can't it buy it? Because the um gentailers, they [clears throat] continue to buy it at inflated prices because they can pass the price on to you and I.

[00:04:35]But, we don't precisely know what the hell is going on. Now, you could say, "Well, hold on a minute, Shane, why should you know? It's up to the free market." Well, hold on a minute. I think there's a good case for ministers to know what the hell's going on if it results in the Ballance company falling over. Yeah. And you can expect the government not to misuse that information in a commercial sense. That is just a government being properly informed about strategic resources.

[00:05:02]>> right. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, at this stage, it's really an information gathering exercise. It's not going to leave any power uh with the state to um intervene and start to monster commercial players. But, the first people to complain against the ministers of the Ballance company uh falters because of the egregious behavior um of the gentailers will be the public and the farmers. Yeah.

[00:05:28]All right. Look, I want to come back to something that all four of you on the podium yesterday, the podium of truth these days, was that you blamed the gas problem largely on Labour's moratorium or ban on energy and gas exploration in New Zealand. and it occurred to me logically that getting rid of that ban would then solve the problem. You wouldn't need this new policy.

[00:05:56]Why doesn't that solve the problem?

[00:05:59]Or is the fact that we just don't have gas we just don't have any gas left?

[00:06:04]Well, I'll repeat what I said, Sean.

[00:06:07]I know my critics say well that's a low blow Shane you and your big puku you stood next to Jacinda Ardern with your kabuki face.

[00:06:16]It's the real damage of that decision with the following three things. Number one, there were firms in New Zealand on the verge of signing documents committing hundreds of millions of dollars towards expanding exploration and the development of the gas sector. I've spoken to them. Mhm.

[00:06:34]They've shown me the documents. They picked up they packed up and buggered off and they ain't coming back to New Zealand. That's the first thing. Why did they pick up and bugger off? Because of the ban or the moratorium?

[00:06:46]No, no, that they they were told and they believed that there was no long-term future for the utilization of a resource called gas in the energy system in New Zealand.