We probably wouldn’t be friends if it weren’t for Armenia [Հայlight #13]

Added: 2026-05-07

[00:00:00]I feel so powerful guys because I lived in Armenia and you didn't >> because the word diversity I can hear only from repat >> to this beautiful >> world >> club. I like to call it a club. I feel like I'm a I'm a part of the club and being a part of the club is really cool.

[00:00:18]>> This melon port can only exist in Armenia and nowhere else.

[00:00:28]So, hi everybody.

[00:00:31]I'm so happy to host this podcast today, the highlight podcast by Repat Armia with all of you around the table because I'm close to each of you here and we are all representing a different country, different culture. So, it's very cool.

[00:00:44]Um, let me introduce myself quickly even though you all know me. I'm Nelly Nelly Pyakov. I moved to Armenia in March 2020 just one week before the lockdown and few months before the war very challenging year and I moved from Paris from France and I'm today the head of communication for the Hovnan Foundation.

[00:01:05]Let's introduce yourself quickly too.

[00:01:07]>> All right, my name is Kyle Kandikan. I am originally from Los Angeles but I have been living here in Armenia for over 10 years. Uh, by day I serve as the director of alumni relations at the American University of Armenia and on nights and weekends I produce rugs as the founding director of the rug code.

[00:01:29]>> Hello, I'm very glad to be here with you today. My name is Mariana Choanyan. I moved from Belarus uh six and a half years ago and I moved before it became a trend I can say. Um, I work for Repat Armenia as programs manager.

[00:01:47]>> Hi, I guess I'm the only local here cuz I was born in Yeravan. I grew up in Yeravan and in fact I did my whole career in Yeravan. I'm a product designer. I work in IT for already something 12 or 13 years. And currently I'm also a creative lead in one of the IT companies based in Armenia and San Francisco.

[00:02:08]>> And your name is San?

[00:02:10]>> Yes.

[00:02:10]>> Did you say it?

[00:02:11]>> Didn't I say it? I don't know.

[00:02:15]>> So I'm a little bit stressed because um I always told myself that if one day I have to host a podcast, it has to be in my native language which is French. So now I'm I have to host it in English and it's very hard to stick just to like to stick to one language only when you live in Armenia because you all know and even you sanush like when we talk to each other which is funny because we usually talk to each other in Armenian so it's very formal to speak in English. We always insert some Armenian words in our English like sentences. So you know what? Let's be natural today. If you want to sometimes it's fine. No judgment here. It's a safe place. Okay. Now it's said.

[00:02:55]So um it's very interesting how uh we decided to do this uh podcast today like the topic of the discussion. It comes from a nice story that you know also and you will know quickly what it is about.

[00:03:08]It was in September. Uh we went to a craft festival near Sean in a town. What was the name of the town?

[00:03:15]>> Gavar.

[00:03:16]>> Gava. It's a town or a village.

[00:03:17]>> It's a town.

[00:03:18]>> It's a town. Okay. Um so we went with Kyle with and with two other friends.

[00:03:24]So we went, it was cool. Very very cool day. Uh and then we went to visit a museum, art slc center, I don't remember. And there was this kid who was playing piano. He was playing as navo of course. And then I told him that I was from France. And the kid came, he was probably 10 years old.

[00:03:43]He came and he asked, um, "Oh, you are all from France Franc."

[00:03:49]And I'm like, "No, no, no. I'm from France only. My friend Kyle is from Los Angeles. Ara is from Australia and Mike is from Lebanon." And I saw in the kid eyes, he was like mouth open. And he looked at us and he was like, "Wow." And then I realized that for us it became normal. But it's true that when you think about it, what were the chances that in this small town at the same time there is someone from LA, from from Paris, from uh Australia, but I don't remember the city and from Beirut at the same place. Okay, we're all Armenians, but it's we are so different. Like I don't know if in France I would go with you guys in a museum or if you would go with me in the museum in a town. So the the the kids eyes reminded me something that I forgot for a long time which is that it's true that Armenia is so diverse and I forgot that through the years at the beginning when I moved here I was like wow so much diversity then I forgot and it reminded me that and I was so happy because I needed to be reminded. So I have a question for you Kyle who was with me. Did you feel the same? Like do you remember this part and did you feel the same? Like do you feel the same sometimes that wow like we are so different and we are at the same place?

[00:05:04]>> Yeah, I think after over 10 years of living and working here there's a part of me that perhaps takes that cultural diversity that exists in Armenia for granted. But when you stop and think about it, it is something really really special. And for sure there's this general idea that Armenia is a monolith, right, when it comes to culture, when it comes to national identity, when it comes to ethnicity. But the reality of the fact, the reality of the matter is that it's not. I mean, just in my car that day, as you said, there were so many people from so many different countries. And I think that's something really really special and beautiful about Armenia and something that adds to the richness of our country and our people because yeah I mean I I I never thought that I would have French Armenian friends, Australian Armenian friends, Russian Armenian friends, Argentinian Armenian friends and Armenia is one of the very very few places where you can connect with so many different people. And >> I don't think it's very surprising that Armenia is the central node, right, of this international network of Armenians because this is the piece of our historic homeland that is an independent republic, an independent nation state.

[00:06:28]And so I think it's only natural that Armenia would be this central hub for the wider international network. It is natural but as you said and that's why also I wanted us to discuss that and especially to have Sanush with us because yeah we all think that Armenia is homogeneous like same same culture same language and even me before moving here I never thought that I would like leave this bubble I was living in what about you Mariana in Barus I don't know if you were hanging out with like people like you or this diversity you had already in Belarus and then you moved to Armenia and it didn't change anything for you or But you know growing up in Belarus my world was mostly homogeneous.

[00:07:09]I was surrounded mostly by Belarusians except for a couple of Armenian families around. And it changed when I became a student. I studied international relations and obviously we had students from different countries for example from Turkmanistan from South Korea um even uh so and even in our dorms we had uh Chinese students. So I heard different languages. I saw different cultures and habits and lifestyles. So it was not a shock for me but my world started to expand gradually and I guess u it helped me a lot later when I moved to Armenia and I adjusted to Armenia and Armenians from all over the world. But here in Armenia I remember we talked about that you are staying with more Russian Armenians, right? or no? Like people speak the same language, Russian. Like is it natural for you to >> It's natural because of your like mother tongue. Uh it's like Armenian and Russian. So I am bilingual. So it's natural basically. Uh but yeah, it was kind of also mixed because I joined Repart Armenia Foundation and I had colleagues from Syria, from Lebanon, you know, so it became mixed.

[00:08:25]>> Okay. And what about you? I know you have a lot of things to say about that.

[00:08:30]We always talk about this diversity and you have a different perspective.

[00:08:35]>> Yeah. Because the word diversity I can hear only from repat cuz like Yeah. I've been living in Armenia my whole life and the only thing that actually misses me here is the diversity.

[00:08:49]>> I want diversity of thinking, of mindset, of visual diversity. I want the diversity of tastes, even the diversity of cultural habits and cultural uh entertainment. So that is something that is really missing in Armenia. And when we say Armenia, Armenia is not only Yervan because in Yeravan, yeah, maybe there is a lot of stuff going on. And right now especially, you can see some repads, some even foreigners who moved and decided to stay in Armenia. But if you go outside of Yeravan, that's not the case. And I grew up in a country where by default you know there are a couple a couple of subcultures you can differentiate them and you know what's their cliche thinking is going to be you either associate you with them or you don't and uh you create your bubble your bubble of friends your bubble of people who think the same way you are cuz otherwise if you go out of that bubble there is a high risk in Armenia to be judged. That's something that's also one of the bad parts in Armenia. But someone is a local I'm telling it like but also the best part of Armenia that I really love that um most of the time people can hear like they can listen to you. They see that you're different. They do and they are not aggressive towards to you >> like culturally you mean culturally like Armenian local Armenians. Yeah. They're not very Yes. I mean they their mindset might be different from a lot of people who come from outside or even the ones who grew up here but they are never aggressive.

[00:10:26]>> That's the good part.

[00:10:27]>> But okay but before meeting me and my brother so repat from France we are Armenians for sure but we also are French.

[00:10:35]>> Yeah.

[00:10:36]>> Um did you >> like did you hang out with Armenians from other countries? I cannot say I hanged out but I had one experience that I guess that was the first time I met a girl who uh through birthright if I'm not mistaken she moved to Armenia for a couple of months she was a UX designer from IBM and she was working in the company that I was working and I was like cool I'm going to learn a lot of stuff from her and it's going to be like a good practice for my English and she was very cute very nice very open-minded ready to get engaged with the locals. It was very interesting with her. So I spent I don't remember it was two or three months. So we were all like doing lunch all the day. Uh but in our company it was only me who made friends with her.

[00:11:24]>> Yeah. You told me that she >> and then um a couple of years later I talked with my ex one of my ex- colleagues and I we discussed this case and I was like why didn't you make friends with him her? She was like very nice girl and he he was like I think it was the language barrier and I was like but she was speaking Armenian she was not speaking uh western eastern she was speaking western Armenian not eastern but she understands you and he was like no still this language barrier that I think that I cannot express myself the way I want I cannot express myself the like in my Armenian or in English it's kind of like keeps me away but and to continue that. So we kind of entered your life not like I don't say that like we entered your life us French Armenians no we entered your life and we became very close. I remember that at the beginning uh you were surprised by some stuff and I think at some point I I really want us to talk about what Armenia can gain from all of that like different cultures because even though you say it lacks diversity >> it's it's it's crazy because we really feel something else but it's very interesting and I want us to talk about that but from my side uh I really think that in France I was in my bubble uh with people like me not physically because France is very diverse But you know like in France you're integrated and you talk about French culture, you speak in French, etc. So it was my bubble and I thought I was a very open-minded person but no then I moved here and honestly uh and I and I'm curious to know if you feel the same.

[00:13:01]the person I am today after six years I opened up so much like I I would never be friend with someone from LA and I love you Kyle but we are so different but I I'm learning from that too like and today I understand that I always go towards American Armenian because it's so cool to have warm people around you when you are cold sometimes that's me uh and so I learned so much I the person I am today has nothing to do with the person I was before because I'm learning from the other culture like Mariana we are so different as well but I know exactly what I want to learn from you as a friend and siran same so is it just me or you also feel like that that you really changed a lot or just okay >> if I may go first I mean I think for sure after 10 years of living here I am not the same person I've changed in so many different ways and I can feel the changes and it's sort of hard to put to words, but I think a big part of the change that I experienced was because I came to Armenia with an in a real intention of connecting with local people. That was really important to me.

[00:14:13]>> That's interesting.

[00:14:14]>> Um because before coming here, I had very specific and unfortunately generally negative stereotypes about this country and about the people that live here despite >> um >> because of Los Angeles.

[00:14:27]>> I because of because of Yeah. because of negative experiences that people have had. Um, people hearing from other people, hearing from other people, you know how the grape vine works, especially in the uh, Armenian world.

[00:14:40]Um, from people who had never been here, who had never lived here. My family, my Armenian family is from Lebanon um, and before Lebanon, Western Armenia. So, we have no direct connection to this republic that exists today. So my intention coming here was to really integrate and really, you know, break some of those stereotypes um and really understand what is Armenia like, what are Armenians in Armenia like and what how do I fit into Armenia? And it was a long process. Um I learned Eastern Armenian and my Eastern Armenian is I would say quite good today. In fact, dominant more so than Western Armenian.

[00:15:19]>> So you were talking Western Armenian before coming to Armenia. Yes.

[00:15:23]>> Well, very well. Like, >> yes. Uh, my vocabulary was limited because in diaspora we unfortunately only use Armenian in very specific contexts, but coming here my vocabulary has significantly expanded and my eastern Armenian is quite well. Um, has become the dominant Armenian that I use.

[00:15:41]But I think in my time living here, working here, integrating here, I also met French Armenians. I also met Australian Armenians. I also met Argentinian Armenians. And it's those two specifically from the southern hemisphere that I had no real connection with because Los Angeles is one of those cities. If if we look at the Armenian world, Los Angeles is one of those unique cities where you have lots of different Armenians from all over the world. So I grew up in the Armenian community. I went to private Armenian school my entire life before university.

[00:16:18]And in Armenian school and in the community, we were very aware that there are different types of Armenians from different parts of the world, from different countries who each bring their own flavor um to this beautiful >> Armenian world >> club. I like to call it a club. I feel like I'm a I'm a part of the club and being a part of the club is really cool.

[00:16:40]Um not everybody's a part of the club, but yeah, you know, Iranian Armenians bring something to the club. Lebanese Armenians bring something to the club.

[00:16:49]Um, Armenians from Armenia bring something to the club. And so, Los Angeles, you have all these different subcommunities of the club, let's say.

[00:16:56]>> But, so why you think it's more diverse here if you had So, >> I had never met an Australian Armenian before I came to Armenia. I had never met an Argentinian Armenian before I came to Armenia.

[00:17:06]>> I never connected Argentina and Armenia, honestly. So, I never never imagined Armen in Argentina. And I think Ar I think Armenia as the independent republic that exists is one of the few if not the only place where really you can find Armenians from all over the world and there's something I'm not really sure where I want to continue with >> that you came with the intention to >> and I didn't know that to meet local Armenians Armenians from here to know better Armenia that's why you never left no like you really integrated very well into Armenia >> perhaps yeah I And with your project, I'm always very um surprised and amazed that you go in villages and you really like at the craft festival. He was a superstar talking with everybody and I thought I was the most integrated one. I was not. So yeah, that's very interesting.

[00:17:56]>> What was the original question?

[00:17:58]>> No, I don't remember.

[00:17:58]>> Okay, >> don't ask me. I got into your your >> um but yeah I mean in during the in the process of integrating with local people and local communities >> oh it's how it changed you that was the initial question >> in my my journey of integrating into Armenia and finding my communities. I also found you know the the the the flavors that the French Armenians bring the flavors that the Australian Armenians brings the flavors that the Argentinian Armenians bring. And I totally hear Sidanush and I also feel at times a lack of diversity especially as someone who comes from Los Angeles where you can find anything that you're looking for any interest no matter how niche it is you can find that community in a city like Los Angeles yet Ivon Armenia no I mean let's if if we're honest like and it's simply because of the scale and perhaps a lot of other factors. But at the same time, if we if we think about Armenia and Armenianness specifically, >> I think there's so much there are so many different people that are adding their own uh flavors and tastes to general society. I mean, for example, now my friends from Argentina opened up a little empanada shop here, and now you can find Argentinian empanadas in Yevon, and they're delicious. Kink, that's the name of the of the kitchen. So, and I think that's really really exciting to see >> people who have come, who have decided to live here, who have decided to invest here, >> bring something from their past life, let's call it, and integrated into society here.

[00:19:47]Um yeah I want to say you know what I have noticed that uh after having like a lot of discussions with my uh friends I've noticed that actually it's the size of Armenia size of Yeravan that allows you guys to discover all these flavors and Los Angeles is huge and from like even from going from the some distances you need to spend hours but in Armenia everything is very close everything is small and that actually allows you to integrated. That's what I've noticed from like you guys Nelly and Or I think you can't even allow yourself to stay in your bubble in Armenia. But there's an opposite effect. Then you always have I mean I don't know you but you always have the feeling that I can't stay in my own world like I need to shell with people like I can't because it's so small as you say. So we can't be like that like no no no I'm you know like I'm the same than I was in my country because no but sometimes it's a lot of pressure for me I don't know you I have I I think that I have to be open to talk to so many people to be close to a lot of people just to I mean you know sometimes I'm exhausted about that but I agree with you sometimes I put pressure on myself that I always have to hang out with a lot of different people just to make sure that I know I need to work on that.

[00:21:07]>> Can I also add on diversity thing? So living in Belarus, I could never have imagined how diverse Armenia actually is >> and you know yeah agree on that. So uh my first uh job placement here in Armenia was at the international NGO people in need Czech NGO but the stuff was local purely local and I was the only repetitrate there. So it was a bit different. It was interesting experience definitely. But then I started working with Repet Armenia and this is when I fully realized how diverse Armenia is like meeting people from all over the world. I mean Armenians from diaspora from different corners of the world and they all bring their own cultures, mindset, habits and this was so interesting and I was I remember thinking like wow this is like Armenian melting pot you know kind of and the most amazing part about this is that uh this melon port can only exist in Armenia and nowhere else. Yeah, it's a hub. Yeah, totally. And I also see interesting dynamics here, uh, because for example, Western Armenians, uh, sometimes speak, um, Russian words even.

[00:22:24]Yeah. So, and you know, considering that Russian is still a lingua frana in this region, >> this is very beneficial for them. And uh at the same time I noticed that that some local Armenians, native Armenians are trying to speak more clean Armenian, you know, avoiding some Russian words or for example, people would go to the grocery and ask for pomador or lolik and then they, you know, change to lol pomador and this is so beautiful and you know we indeed we en enrich each other.

[00:22:57]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:57]>> And do you remember like the first time you you met an Armenian from somewhere else and that's the power vet? Like I think for me it was probably you Kyle because American once again but because like we had I think it's the first time we had a discussion long time ago then I even remember I was like oh we should hang out more often because I was very interested like curious and I was then I remember I thought crazy that like uh it's the first time the borvitz and I'm like wow I would never have met him in France and I would never have been curious Maybe. So I remember it was you um the first time. So do you remember the first time you met someone even you who like Batsy Mink I want to say you you were very impressive. That's true.

[00:23:51]But someone were like, "Yeah, you're like, "Oh, wow. This person is very different from me, but still we're Armenian, >> Turkish, >> very different."

[00:23:59]>> Different from different >> Yeah, Kyle is very different with all my >> um I think in my case it was uh when I met Middle Eastern Armenians like I have never met them before. So it was really interesting >> with Yeah. I had no I had zero idea, you know, and I uh actually I didn't even realize I didn't think about Western Armenian, Eastern Armenian, you know, like we didn't concentrate on that on in Barus like >> But you had no one who was speaking Western Armenian in Barus, right?

[00:24:32]>> No, no, it's Eastern Armenian like and the community is very small there like it's around 10,000 people. It's very small but it's very active and honestly I was not part of it because I was living my busy life you know studying hard working singing in a choir traveling and uh since I had my own relationships with Armenia like my direct connection with Armenia I didn't really need to be next to them to feel Armenian or to be connected with Armenian because I was designing my own engagement you know connection with Armenia by myself like at younger age it was uh just you know visiting grandparents summer holidays yen and then it turned into youth exchange programs um I participated in Yervan in Aran and I met local people people from different countries of Europe and then gradually I did my masters here so >> yeah so you I think you are more like >> you knew Armenia like Kyle said before coming he wanted to know Armenia better.

[00:25:37]Have you come here before coming for like a >> once? Um my uh private Armenian school that I went to, they organized an annual class trip for the junior or senior year. So my first time was in 2009 when I was 16 years old, >> which I barely remember that trip. And at age 16, I didn't fully appreciate or understand what it was that I was seeing and experiencing.

[00:26:01]>> So you had no idea what was really you knew.

[00:26:04]>> Yeah, I know. I knew. So it was not socally exotic.

[00:26:09]>> Exotic. Exactly. Exactly. And you so like when you met an Armenian like >> like that is who is very different from you.

[00:26:17]>> Uh so about Middle Eastern Armenians actually they feel the closest to us >> culturally the way they express themselves, the way they feel. So I would say Syrian varied Armenian they are the closest to us. And then I got engaged with you guys and I got got like get to got to know the French Armenians and it was a kind of different that community. But I was the reality was that I was not seeking for being there.

[00:26:47]I just appeared there and I was like okay I'm here I will just be friends with them. And at the beginning I couldn't speak French as well. So I was a bit intimidated. I was like I cannot express myself. They're all speaking French even though the younger guy is all very cute and caring. But I at the beginning like this language barrier was kind of thing and it irritated me because uh I was like come on I'm the only person here who cannot speak French and you guys keep speaking French. Why can you can you not like change your language to English?

[00:27:16]>> Very rude from us. We do that sometimes.

[00:27:19]>> Yes. I learned French. Finally I learned crazy move honestly to learn French for that. No no but yeah you were already you knew some French. Uh yeah, but I couldn't speak. Now I can speak. Uh so yeah, but then I got to know because when I started to speak French, I started to understand French people like much better. Yeah. Now you guys don't irritate me.

[00:27:42]Glad to hear that. You're quite nice actually.

[00:27:46]>> But I know that sometimes with Sanush we had so many conversation about that. At the beginning I remember that sometimes you were more like not provocative but you were like you guys are coming and like you never said you think you are better than us but I remember that it's it's a conversation we had that sometimes let's enter the cliche guys make we all speak with cliche in our lives um some diasporan Armenians are coming very condes in a condescending way like we will teach we will bring our culture to Armenia we will be better and etc. I hate that. I really hate and always say like don't do that. I remember that at the beginning you thought maybe that because I I like I I mean event at the beginning and I felt that feeling that you guys come and you think you are better and I was like wow she's irritated. I I can say actually Yeah, I can say actually why that is because um majority of the repats who come they come to invest in Armenia to to make changes here.

[00:28:51]>> Yeah.

[00:28:52]>> But the reality is why you want to change us if you don't know what you want to change. Like you want to change everything or you want to change some part that's really not working in this world. If you want to change that part, let's discuss what that part is. Don't change everything. Like if you ask me, I don't want to become European. I don't want to become Russian. I don't want to become anything else but Armenian. I want to keep my identity. And you guys come from all over the world and want to bring change like change.

[00:29:21]>> Then that's a great like stop. It's good here. Yeah, it needs some changes here.

[00:29:27]But not aggressively. Not that much.

[00:29:29]>> Not aggressively. I agree.

[00:29:30]>> Yeah. Not aggressively. Not that much.

[00:29:32]And before changing like just learn what to change if locals need that change or not or you need that change to be able to live here to make your community that's kind of a tricky part but are they think that you think culturally to go back to the cultural band difference that deserve to be changed >> changed like and then to be kept the way it is.

[00:30:00]I think is really hard to if we're talking about like in terms of culture, if we're talking about behavior for example, like I can't there are things that for sure I personally wish were different. Um because I have 23 years of prior experience living in the United States and having my own way of doing things and the the way that I'm used to things being. And there are certainly things that I wish were a little bit different, but I can give an example. Would you like an example?

[00:30:33]>> Lines, waiting in line.

[00:30:35]>> Yeah, that's true.

[00:30:38]>> Not really a thing in Armenia. People don't really respect lines and waiting and and waiting your turn. I think based on my experience as an American, Americans are quite generally good at waiting in line. Um I wish we had that in Armenia. It would it would save me considerable frustration in my everyday life. But maybe I don't know. But but then also like how do you how do you reprogram or rewire 3 million people to to to wait in line? And is that something and is that something that's really necessary is another question.

[00:31:18]>> Yes, it is.

[00:31:19]>> Okay. And you you think it is.

[00:31:20]>> But how do you do it? I don't when there's this line prime because it happened to me yesterday at Wild Berries. When it happens, what do you do? How do you react? I pick. Oh, I mean I get deeply offended because I don't know as an American. Maybe it's because I'm an American or maybe it's just because I'm Kyle when people don't respect the line and waiting their turn.

[00:31:42]I personally get deeply offended and I feel this deep sense of injustice.

[00:31:50]>> Maybe maybe it's exaggerated. I don't know.

[00:31:53]>> And then I I pick and choose my battles.

[00:31:56]Um so you don't say anything. It depends. you suffer and you say I always I'm a local and I always fight but yesterday I was like >> that was my reaction typical >> and then the guy the of right berries he was like Ian and I said so rude and then the girl was like and I was like that's why I did that I wish I was more like expressive like I couldn't so >> I started fighting >> yeah okay he's offended I turn on my Armenian and I'm like I'm really like that and they listen.

[00:32:40]>> Yeah.

[00:32:40]>> So changing things. Yeah. Yeah. I'm deeply offended but I just like I'm just like I keep it all inside.

[00:32:47]>> Fresh gesture.

[00:32:48]>> Yeah.

[00:32:49]>> Yeah. Me I'm so annoyed.

[00:32:51]>> I mean like to go back to the question about like >> changing things. I certainly came to Armenia with ideas and things that I wanted to changes that I wanted to contribute to. Let's put it that way.

[00:33:08]But I learned very quickly, very quickly, not >> not to give up, >> but to really going back to what you said, really hone in on something that if there's a problem, if there's a challenge, really honing in on something that I myself as an individual can really affect, can really change. Um, I can't change the world. I can't change an entire country, but I can pick one very specific problem. In my case, it's rugs or the the the disappearance of traditional rug making in Armenia and work work with and build a social enterprise, build a business working with individual weavers all over the country outside of Yervon and slowly in small ways try to reverse this trend and make sure that rug does not disappear from Armenia. That is something that I have chosen actually I chose it 10 years ago. I mean it was something that I really felt passionate about but I needed 6 7 8 years to really integrate understand this country. Understand my place in this country. Understand how things work? How do you get things done in this country before I was finally ready to take that step and and do the thing that I had set out to do. But again, I'm not talking about changing the whole country, changing Yevan. No, I've chosen a very specific and narrow interest thing that I really feel very passionate about and I'm like, this is what I'm going to focus on. Um, >> and now you're an expert. And now you're legit. I'm not an expert.

[00:34:48]>> You are more than me, more than more than >> I'm still a beginner. I'm still a novice. I still have a lot to learn. Um, but I I can all I I I I think it's fair to say and I can give myself a little bit of credit to say that I am creating change at least in the lives of the of the individual weavers that I work with.

[00:35:10]>> Um, >> actually that matters >> exactly >> because uh when individuals are changed then their generations get changed that their environment get changed. For example, I can say what the communication and friendship with repats gave me first. The most important part that changed in me is that I learned that any topic can be discussed. First in Armenia when we grow up there are some taboo topics that we do not discuss. Then I learned that there is nothing on this earth that you cannot cannot discuss with your friend, partner or just anyone that you feel like you want to discuss. And there is like this rules. You do not discuss the religion.

[00:35:51]You do not discuss what what else you don't discuss? Sex. Yeah. Some other stuff. In fact, you can discuss anything. And the person who is coming from another c culture will not be offended. Just the opposite. I learned that people are curious about each other. And the like main thing that people want to learn when they communicate is just widen their horizons. Just get to know to each other. And if it like implies that you need to discuss religion, okay, go ahead. Don't offend each other, but discuss it. That that's the widest thing that changed in my life. That's why when I have friends visiting me, I always introduce them to Siranush and Sanush is like doing a interview. So in your life, why but my friends always love you and she's like, so I want to know like in Congo for example, how do you expect that? And they are never offended because it's like very authentic curiosity. and she's like just asking so many questions.

[00:36:47]>> It's it's interesting. It's not just in Armenia, by the way, where there are certain topics that are taboo. Even in the diaspora communities, we have many taboos such as sex. Um, one thing that I've learned or yeah, one thing that I've learned in the last 10 years or something that has changed in me is I've shed a lot of fear about having certain conversations with Armenians, with Armenians, with people who are in the same club as me. We're all club members, but because of my experiences growing up, like there were certain topics that were red lines that I don't cross and because of the stereotypes that I had about Armenia specifically, those red lines were even thicker, if I can say so, that you don't cross those lines. But in reality, and it all depends on how you approach the subject and how you approach the individual that you are seeking to engage, >> most local people are more than happy to discuss those taboo topics. And I would agree with you that there is this um there's the image of the the homogeneous society, the image of the conservative society, but in reality, and I think it's something that's really special about Armenia, is that you can live your life the way that you want to live your life. Um there's a certain balance between private and public that you have to find. But in Armenia, you can live your life the way that you want to live it and no one's going to bother you in the streets. That's true.

[00:38:18]>> And that's something that's really really I think special and important and something that should be maintained um for us as individuals, all of us, whether we're local repats, expats, >> but also for our society as a democratic society. That's the part when I said Armenians are not aggressive. So Armenians can discuss each other, can talks. Gossiping is like something it's a therapy in Armenia. Yeah. So they can gossip, but they are never aggressive.

[00:38:50]You can live your life the way you want.

[00:38:52]>> That's it.

[00:38:53]>> Just depends. I wouldn't say that you can do everything you want. Let's not let's not go into the details. You can like >> because I've heard aggressive stories.

[00:39:04]So I I wouldn't say but okay gossip okay I agree are a lot sometimes you don't want to be part of those gossip that's why you are like very discreet is it in English discrete >> yes discreet >> yeah you're like discreet not to but you know like uh yeah I wouldn't be so like black and white a lot of more nuances I would say but to go back to culturally what okay I will talk about um French my French culture so before coming to Armenia I didn't know um where I'm French, where I'm Armenian. I didn't honestly I was more French because I was hiding my Armenianness. I was not even answering in Armenian to my parents when they were talking to in Armenian to me.

[00:39:46]I was more French I would say. Then I moved um today after six years I know where I'm Armenian and I know where I am French. I always say that there is this journalist from Hamek who hated me when she met me when I when she started to collaborate with me um in 2020. She didn't like me and then nine months after she saw me again and she loved me and she told me and now you're like exactly but I was happy because I thought okay I prefer to be warmer it's my limit I can't be warmer than that after six years honestly sometimes I know I'm cold for people especially for Armenians like from Armenia >> it's it's who I am that's my maximum So, it's fine. Let's go with it. But I know exactly now where I'm French and I know what I want to keep in that way, even if I'm in Armenia. Uh, and this like I will keep that, you know, >> sentence like um and the um bringing nuance nuances in everything. I will I want to keep that. I don't like when it's too extreme, when it's too like emotional, too like I need to keep nuances. Like I like that too and to open debate even for taboo topics. I want to keep that too. Honestly, I wanted to be a sexolog guys.

[00:41:10]>> Do you know what my dream podcast was for many years with a couple close friends? a podcast about sex, love, and dating in Armenia to talk about our sex lives, our love lives, our dating lives in Armenia because it's a it's a curious >> it's a topic I mean it's one of those topics that I want I really I want to break that topic and openly talk about it >> but we don't see we you won't >> we I I talk about it privately with with my with my friends and the people that I feel so comfortable with but then the question is do I want my personal dating life I know exactly >> on a podcast for the whole world to listen to. Maybe in another scenario, in another context, I would say yes. But right now, probably not.

[00:41:53]>> But so for me, uh, and I don't know how I will be judged because I'm the head of communication for the Hovian Foundation, but I'm first of all nearly a human being.

[00:42:03]>> For me, the most important thing and the challenge is that I can't have free discussion about anything in Armenia.

[00:42:12]That is something I miss a lot in Armenia and I don't do and I don't I think I would never the podcast I would never do that if I was a doctor like sexology I don't know how we say that it's an expertise I would be I would have a diploma I wouldn't like come to a cafe let's talk about sex I wouldn't do that but I think I never did that because I know I can't bring that culture to Armenia >> but do you remember our first conversation like how many years ago five or four Six. Six. Oh, no. No. It was five. We got acquainted five years ago. Yeah.

[00:42:47]>> Uh, so you started to tell me a lot of stuff about your life and I was like that's so interesting. Don't tell about it to anyone.

[00:42:55]>> Yeah.

[00:42:57]Yeah. You said don't tell. We were at Phoenix. You said don't tell anyone else does.

[00:43:03]>> But I loved you because of that stories as well because you were so honest. You were so natural. you were so you and that's actually something missing to me as well in Armenia like I have a couple of friends that I'm me and they are themselves >> and they're honest >> Armenians like I think one of the core things that repotss need to change in Armenia is to make like make people believe that being honest being yourself is not scary is not something that you will be judged if majority thinks like you it will be a safe place to That's that's very interesting this perspective. So you tell like to diaspor who move here repat not to change too much not to adapt >> just be yourself be friends with locals and locals will be like like they would take whatever they need from you like I needed to be uh like to legalize my my my way of living. So my way of I mean not legalize good that's not a good wordate validate. Yeah, that's a good word. Validate the way I think, the way I live. That that's okay. That's normal.

[00:44:13]If majority of Armenians do not accept it, it doesn't mean it's not okay. So that's why I needed repat people.

[00:44:21]>> And I think that goes for even outside the Armenian context. Like we give and take what we need to give and take from everyone that we interact with in our lives.

[00:44:33]Whether it's a one time interaction, monthsl long interaction, regardless of what the context is, I think that's the way that things work. And I I completely agree and understand what you say about >> this the lack >> the full freedom or or the restrictions that we put on ourselves because we're aware of our context. we're aware of certain norms um and values and red lines that we have to balance. But I would also say like do we do do we have full freedom anywhere?

[00:45:09]Like >> no maybe not.

[00:45:10]>> Is is this is that real? Is that something that we we can truly experience? I mean especially with things like chigam for example, cancel culture for example, what you post online, you know, like the everything has consequences. So the everything that you do has less when you're in a big country rather than when you're in a small country where everybody know each other.

[00:45:30]>> Sure. Absolutely.

[00:45:31]>> What about you Mariana? Because you're more Okay, I will say don't be offended.

[00:45:34]You're more conservative than us.

[00:45:36]>> Oh, nice.

[00:45:38]>> But I know you >> coming from a posty country, right?

[00:45:40]>> You come from No, but do you feel that there are things here like culturally like you will never change in you but it's challenging here sometimes like you can't be yourself for this specific thing. Was my question clear? Yeah. Uh honestly I am myself.

[00:45:58]>> I didn't change. It didn't transform me in any way. Uh the communication with repads from different countries. It just enriched me. Maybe made me more open-minded.

[00:46:12]>> Yeah. Free probably. But I wouldn't say that it changed me like I am the same Mariana I was in Belarus. I'm same Mariana in United States in in in any country. So, but I'm very, you know, I'm very sociable and I like communicating with people. I can find language with anyone, with any person. And maybe that's due to my major in international relations, diplomacy, you know, kind of um I want to go back to identity question. So, you know, uh, being Armenian in Armenia and being Armenian outside Armenia doesn't matter. Post Soviet space, European Union, US, I think it's still the same. Um, it's very different and it's very challenging because um, you have to always maintain your Armenian identity >> when you're abroad. when you're abroad and you do it maybe subconsciously and you protect it, you preserve it and sometimes people remind you of it in very unexpected ways. And I can give you two examples from my life, from my experience. Um, one time it was uh in the summer camp, one girl assumed I was a Muslim and I started explaining, you know, things that, you know, I'm Armenian. Armenians are Christians, you know, introducing her to Armen, Armenian history, you know. And the second example was in university. Uh, my professor assumed I was from Muldova based on my last name. Yeah. Crazy. So, and yeah, like you want it or not, they constantly remind you of your identity.

[00:47:53]So, sometimes your identity can also become hybrid >> because of the culture where you live and it's Armenian plus French, American, Belarusian, you know, and in my case, for example, um I was baptized in Orthodox church because we didn't have Armenian church back then in Barus.

[00:48:14]And you know it's obviously we followed Orthodox church traditions and uh holidays. So we celebrated for example uh Christmas on January 7. That's interesting. Uh so you you adapt somehow and you try to find this balance. But in Armenia it's so different. It's so easy.

[00:48:35]It's so natural. You are Armenian and you don't put any efforts into it. It's effortless. You're just who you are and that's it. You don't think about it at all.

[00:48:45]>> That's so interesting. Yeah.

[00:48:46]>> But I >> don't you agree with me?

[00:48:48]>> No, I don't feel the same at all. It's so much effort for me to be an >> Even in Armenia.

[00:48:53]>> Yeah.

[00:48:54]>> Because I really look like a French person. They all speak Russian to me. I mean, and it's like >> And your last name Pola?

[00:49:02]>> My last name is is Russian and it's Russian male last name Polyov which should be Polyakova. So I also have a gendered identity issue. So I won't say that here. It's like always you have to prove. I don't have to prove because I know I'm Armenian when I speak Armenian.

[00:49:17]But it's like yeah it's fine. It's okay.

[00:49:18]Like they speak Russian then I answer in Armenian. They're like oh my god. I'm like it's fine. Never mind. In France.

[00:49:23]But it's interesting because in France they never question my identity. I never had to explain that I'm Armenian.

[00:49:31]Honestly when I moved to Armenia everybody was surprised because I was the biggest diasporan fraud in France. I was not hanging out with Armenians. I was going to the Armenian dance, but I had no friends because they never integrated me. I hope someone will listen to this podcast and they will remember that I remember everybody there and and 10 years I did dance but I was not hanging out with them. So I was going dancing going home. Uh so that was my only Armenianess because I was French for me. I was French hang out with French hipsters and stuff that I loved.

[00:50:04]And uh but now when I go back to France, I only want to hang out mainly mainly with people I met in Armenia. That's very important. I naturally I'm I'm going toward them because we we shared the same life, the same experience. They understand me. I understand them. They are French. I am French too. I don't need to explain Armenia to other people.

[00:50:26]I became a stronger diaspan, I would say, with my own words. Before I was a fraud. Now I'm a very like a strong diaspora Armenian very confident when I go to Armenian diaspora event out of uh Armenia I feel so powerful guys because I lived in Armenia and you didn't I know this country and you don't I feel like this fraud feeling disappeared. I'm so like I went to LA to Leazan Lean.

[00:50:53]>> I was like I'm the queen here. I live in Armenia guys. Who are you best friends?

[00:50:59]I don't show that though, but it's a safe place. But yeah, it's the opposite for me. I know I became a strong diasporan, but I'm stronger when I'm outside of Armenia.

[00:51:08]>> I would say that you became a stronger Armenian in general and and a more >> what what's the word? Perhaps more well-rounded, just a richer human with a richer experience. That's how I feel about myself because if I stayed in Los Angeles after graduating from university, I know more or less what my life was going to be and look like today, 10 years later. And moving to Armenia, living here for 10 years, that's it's such a wildly different life path that I chose for myself than the one that perhaps was much easier for me to take. And I'm so glad that I did it because I think my life and Kyle, the Kyle that's here today, is a much more diverse person perhaps in terms of perspectives and experiences and um emotional intelligence, cultural intelligence, the ability to navigate different cultural spaces. Um, unlike you, I'm a bit different depending on where I am. In the villages, I'm a different Kyle. At work, I'm a different Kyle. At the bar, I'm a different Kyle. In Los Angeles, I'm perhaps a different Kyle. Um, but I mean, what I want to say is that like I this Kyle I think is a much better version >> Yeah, me too.

[00:52:39]>> of who I was 10 years ago. And it's because I lived here for 10 years and it's because of all of the different people >> that I have met, created relationships with >> here in Armenia. Um, and that >> no one can ever take that away from me.

[00:52:55]Um, and I'm only only happy about it.

[00:52:59]>> I have a question for you.

[00:53:00]>> Yeah.

[00:53:01]>> And I wanted to ask you out of like this podcast discussion, but here you are in front of the cameras. Um would you want to hang out? I always want to take you with me to events. I always tell you come with me though you have a kid now you are more busy but I always tell you come to repat event come because I want you to shel with people like me >> and uh but it's always hard to do it but would you do you think that you would want to hang out with more different Armenians or you really don't need that?

[00:53:34]I think I need that and I also like it's not something that I need it more >> but I need it definitely I need it because like when Kyle was talking I was thinking about that it would be interesting to have the fifth people here person here who would be someone who really wants to leave Armenia >> that would be really interesting because you guys and me myself as well we are saying that Armenia is a really cool diverse and interesting place to come back But mainly you guys are coming back coming here from a different culture and you have already seen a lot of stuff in your life and that's why you come back Armenia and you find some harmony here.

[00:54:16]People who live here especially if they are from villages or small country um cities not they're more like I want to go discover the world. I want to see the world. Many people go and come back.

[00:54:27]That's good. Many people like go and don't want to come back. They hate even here. I know a lot of people from my friends who go out and they're like I hate Romy I don't want to come back that's sad but people like that exist so what I wanted to say that yeah I would like to hang out with repats more because sometimes talking to repots is equal to traveling yes you know% that's kind of like cheap way to travel that's why I was saying like just communicate with locals like you were mentioning that you have Argentinian Armenian French Armenian but do you have Armenian Armenian like oh many like real friend >> that actually is going to have some input in Armenia that's actually really matters >> and they like I love all of my friends but the the lo my local friends there's a special corner in my heart for them because yeah again my family's from Lebanon my father was born in Beirut I was born in Los Angeles >> um and I came here with a lot of baggage a lot stereotypes, um, a lot of preconceived notions about Armenia and and and Armenians who live here. And all of that has completely shattered. And now I have a much more nuanced idea and exper um, yeah, nuanced ideas and experiences with local people. And it's because of the local people that >> yeah, >> are in my life and continue to be in my life and who I hold very near and dear to my heart. Um, yeah. Yeah.

[00:56:02]>> You're so poetic.

[00:56:03]>> Am I?

[00:56:05]>> What I I wanted to add some Thank you. I wanted to say Oh, what you said about traveling.

[00:56:12]>> Yeah.

[00:56:13]>> I keep going back to the southern hemisphere again. Like there's every Armenian from all over the world brings their own flavor. And so like when I think about the Argentinian Armenians, they are very Armenian, but they're also very Argentinian. They're so Argentinian. And if they and they are uh as representatives of representatives of their country, I'm like, if this is who Argentinian people are, I love it.

[00:56:44]And I'm so I want to go to Argentina now. And I'm like, I I I have this uh I I I I understand somehow Argentina a bit more and I recognize Argentinian people a bit more because of those individuals who are in my life and they've given me a very positive image of Argentina. Same thing with Australian Armenians. There's something about southern hemisphere, the southern hemisphere, like south of the equator, the way the sun hits the earth.

[00:57:16]But like Argentinian Armenians, Australian Armenians, they're so chill.

[00:57:20]They're so they're so they're so different actually from my experience with Armenians such as Lebanese Armenians, Syrian Armenians, Hayestan Armenians. They're so different um because they're Argentinian, because they're Australian. And it it's really really nice and refreshing to see this different type of Armenian who, >> as I said, is Armenian, but is also Australian, you know, and that's super cool. And I I value and appreciate those people. And I absolutely agree with you when you say that >> those types of interactions and friendships allow you to travel and experience another culture, another country.

[00:57:57]>> That's true. That's interesting. I have no Argentinian Armenian friend and Russian Armenian friend. There's a kumbia night coming up on April 2 that I plan on going. If y'all want to come and dance kumbia kumbia. Yeah. Latin dance.

[00:58:10]>> She will.

[00:58:11]>> I love dance. I don't like Latin dance.

[00:58:14]I'm too What do you like?

[00:58:16]>> What do you like? I'm very hot for that.

[00:58:18]I will go.

[00:58:18]>> Okay. She will go totally.

[00:58:20]>> And and this is the thing like I I I'm also I'm half Latino by the way. My mother is from El Salvador. So >> um I love Latin culture, Latin music. I I don't it's in my blood. I don't have the same relationship with um my other side, my my Latin heritage in the way that I'm very committed to my Armenianness. I always have been. But I miss Latin music. I miss Latin dance, kumbia. Like I'm like, "Oh, yes. Thank goodness the Argentinians are here and they're organizing a kumbia dance night that's going to go on all night long." And I'm like, "Okay." So that diversity that I'm missing from Los Angeles.

[00:59:02]>> Yeah. You see, you have it here. Not not at the scale of Los Angeles, but it's here. And and that's the value that all of us from different countries bring.

[00:59:12]>> You you like you really get into it.

[00:59:15]Maybe in LA, yeah, it's more diverse, but because it's not so small, you would be too busy.

[00:59:21]>> Yes.

[00:59:26]>> Exactly. But do you have Russian Armenian friends?

[00:59:29]>> Russian Armenian friends >> or post Soviet like >> posts Soviet >> pretty much the same labeling.

[00:59:37]>> Um if we don't count local people don't think so.

[00:59:42]>> I'm not sure. And maybe there maybe it's the cultural gap.

[00:59:46]>> Maybe it's the language gap.

[00:59:48]>> Always language gap as well.

[00:59:50]>> I would say cultural because they speak Armenian.

[00:59:52]>> No all of them.

[00:59:54]>> No. Unfortunately, the majority >> speak about those who speak at least one common language. No, I think me I have.

[01:00:01]I I said I don't, but I have. But from South America, I don't. And I think it's because here I'm too French for that.

[01:00:08]Not in a bad way. I it it doesn't uh it it does like that. Like banalum the warmth. I don't have it and I'm just I look too cold. They don't want to be friend with me. It's fine. And it's fine, you know. But it's the only like I don't have Ar like South America Armenian friends.

[01:00:26]>> But what you do have in common with them is your Armenian friends.

[01:00:29]>> Exactly.

[01:00:30]>> And so I think that's an I think there's an opportunity there for all of us. And I mean at the end of the day we're all human, right? Like it sounds cheesy like we're all human, we're all the same. But it's true. And I think that like if someone wants to, you can find something that you have in common with anyone from anywhere in the world.

[01:00:53]>> And I think here it's easier to do that.

[01:00:55]>> It's cheesy. I know. But >> it's cheesy, but it's true.

[01:00:57]>> But I I want to believe that like in in especially in the this world that we live in that feels so polarized, so antagonistic, so me, us versus them.

[01:01:13]I I'm trying to be the opposite of that and trying to live my life >> in the opposite way because >> because you're poetic. I'm kidding.

[01:01:24]>> There's too much aggression in the world and and I think, you know, I don't want to contribute to the aggression. I want to contribute to the opposite of that.

[01:01:32]>> Kyle is my kind friends. Like when I want to feel kindness, I go to Kyle. So, so yeah. So in one word if like we should conclude that because we can talk about that for hours. I really think that Armenia to go back to the first initial story. Armenia is for me the only place where you can be friends with someone from LA from someone from Belarus someone from Armenia and someone from Lebanon. Like we could have so many more people around the table and I think it's great honestly and if you don't have anything to add about that you have anything to add about that. Yeah. You always have anything to add.

[01:02:08]I can talk forever. I need to have my own podcast. I don't know how many people will listen.

[01:02:15]>> You forgot.

[01:02:16]>> I think you can meet people from all over the world in any major city.

[01:02:20]>> Yeah, but it's easier here.

[01:02:22]>> It's easier here.

[01:02:23]>> I don't know if it's easier here for you. Perhaps >> for me. But I think what's different about here is that you know not only can you connect on a human level but then you have the club the club the membership in the club right like >> which club the Armenian club >> the global Armenian club and that adds an extra layer of warmth of connection of understanding of shared purpose perhaps shared values and and you know we talked we talked talked about differences, but one thing that struck me very early on when I came to Armenia with the Birthright program was meeting other Armenians from completely different societies. Armenians from Damascus, for example, from Aleppo, from Beirut, um, >> who, >> for example, also went to private Armenian school in their communities, in their cities, and they grew up singing, for example, the same kindergarten songs that I grew up singing. We read the same exact fairy tales. we share these cultural things together that only another Armenian that only another club member, you know, would share. Um, and that to me was really, really beautiful.

[01:03:48]And being like, "Wow, you're from Aleppo. I'm from Los Angeles." I think those cities we can agree are quite different from each other.

[01:03:56]>> But me and this person had such a similar upbringing in our clubhouse, >> right? famous club >> in our Armenian schools and if I sing I don't know like if I if I you know >> like lullabi >> lullabibies Christmas songs for example we grew up singing the same Christmas songs we grew up reading the same stories >> and I'm like that is so beautiful because if we weren't I don't know that we would have had that shared that those shared memories those shared values if we weren't part of this club >> and that was something that I really uh experienced and really cherished and cherished to this day that I share that with so many people who outside of the club would be completely different from me and who I may not have anything in common with even language I may not have a common language but because I'm a part of the club I not only have the shared language but I have the shared experiences and the memories >> don't you think it's also it makes it a safe safe place also that you know you both are part of the club speaking like him now with this club thing.

[01:05:05]>> 100%.

[01:05:06]>> Um I I've >> on on a couple travels to Istanbul in the I would always make it a point to find Armenian schools, Armenian churches, and I would just knock on the door and say, "Hey, You can only read Armenian. Yes. And I remember go walking the halls of this Armenian school in Istanbul and feeling like I was back home at my Armenian school in Los Angeles.

[01:05:45]>> That's very interesting.

[01:05:46]>> And I I have goosebumps. Like >> that's such a beautiful thing. That's such a special thing that I would not trade for for anything. Um, >> you're so right. I went to Rome and I just remember that I went to find the Armenian church in Rome and I went alone and I entered the church and I went to visit and I talked to the people who were there like I had to I had to go find this Armenian >> somewhere in Rome when I was there.

[01:06:14]>> Small home.

[01:06:15]>> Yeah. And I always do that now that I remember. I was never doing that before.

[01:06:19]Little Armenia. Yeah, exactly.

[01:06:22]>> Okay guys, that was very interesting.

[01:06:23]I'm very happy to have you as my friends. I will try to have more South American friends too, but I will not go to this. Okay, maybe I will come in.

[01:06:33]So, if no one has anything else to add, I will say thank you guys. I'm very happy that I hosted this one.

[01:06:40]>> Thank you. You're very much like a very good host. Amazing. Thank you.