State-owned enterprises like Codelco face significant governance challenges when they lack effective accountability mechanisms, as the absence of individual shareholders who can demand answers and exercise oversight leads to inefficiency, cost overruns, and misaligned incentives between production targets and actual profitability.
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[music] [music] Hello, hello, how are you? I hope you can hear better because I'm using a microphone now, so [laughs] so let's see if it's okay because some people complained that it wasn't working well. So, let's see how this works. Well, the week hasn't been that intense. In fact, Tomás himself told me that it was more boring than the events of the week. Clear. What happens is that the government of B with rapes, suicide [laughs] that died from overwork.
Well, sure, I mean, the issue has calmed down a bit and is more technical, but things are still happening, not as serious, but like what happened in the previous government. And I hope they don't happen, because hearing that someone died from overwork and everyone looked the other way, that a civil servant committed suicide, etc. No, no, no, I don't find it [laughs] very desirable.
Well, let's talk [clears throat] a little bit about this issue that happened at Codelco, which, I mean, they've been going too far with Codelco for a while now, this isn't just happening but now it's just shameless.
So, let's see.
We might leave it at that for now, it could be because the audits haven't finished yet, but there were reactions I hadn't seen in a long time and I thought it was good.
Okay, first let's look at the headline here. What appeared?
C would have been well inflated in production in 2025 last year to meet the target and pay bonuses to executives and workers.
Well, from here, of course, comes the title of the program, to say, well, the company that they say belongs to all Chileans, does not belong to all Chileans, it belongs to the executives, to the workers, it seems, and the Chileans would get the change, what is left after all this distribution. And we're going to analyze that point too, why this is happening and why it has been happening.
Let's explain what they did. So, what did they do?
Codelco is supposed to have a record production in 2025, a record for the decade. It was extraordinary.
Then, wonderful. And that cuts short December.
And in January and February, just before the change of government, it was said, "No, the truth is, I mean, those were real figures, but there were some issues, some adjustments, 20,000 tons less, [laughs] I mean, 20,000 tons drop in a two-month period, which is any amount [laughs] of ore for a couple of months, but right in 2025. And what caused this? This goal was met. Of course, the appropriate bonuses were distributed among the workers, the unions are involved, of course, and management.
In that regard, I've shared with you, I mean, we put on Don Willy Díaz's program, I mean, not Don Willy Díaz's program, Don Willy Díaz participates in a program called Buenos días Mercado on Radio del Conquistador with Mr. Lavin, a Mr. Arados I think, and he, who worked at ENIM, knows a lot about mining, and he does a whole analysis that I'm going to give you. I made a small excerpt, but those who want to can listen to the whole thing. First thing, We have to mention the statistics from Cochilco. Cochilco, the Chilean Copper Corporation, began measuring copper production in Chile in 2003. At the beginning of 2003, Codelco produced 34% of the copper in Chile, that is, one-third. Now, we must say that in previous decades, Codelco produced practically 100% of Chilean copper.
But what happened in the years leading up to the end of 2000? New deposits were discovered, among them La Escondida, which is Codelco's biggest competitor.
So, what he does is compare Codelco's production from 2003 to 2025 with La Escondida.
So, what does it tell us? In 2020, La Escondida appeared, along with other new deposits.
It turns out that today, by 2025, Codelco's production will no longer be 34%, but 26%, a decrease of about 7 or 8 percentage points.
And from that, we have to subtract... The 20,000 tons also decreased slightly.
Escondida represented 20% of total production in 2003, while Coeco represented 34%. So, while Cotelco's production fell by 78 percentage points, Escondida's rose by five.
In other words, Celcop's production decreased by about 0.7% every year from 2003 onward.
Now, one might say, well, we could look at this, but what happened? What's the explanation?
And Don Willy says, well, there are things to consider. For example, the issue of costs. He says that Codelco increased its costs during that period for various reasons, including the lower quality of the ore, union pensions, a series of investments, and so on, increasing its costs by 39%.
So, what happened to Escondida's costs? Because if Escondida's costs also increased, it means something happened that forced them to raise their costs. It went down by 25%, meaning that while costs were rising during the same period, it was going down. So what's the explanation? What does it mean?
Celco doesn't have good control. Celco doesn't belong to the Chileans because we Chileans are supposed to be the shareholders, right? And we [sighs] would have the right to demand answers about what's happening with the company. It does n't belong to the executives, the workers, because the shareholders... because the only way—and this is an idea I mentioned some time ago, and I repeated it, Don Willy—is if each of us had a share, if they told us, 'Gentlemen, we're going to issue 20 million shares, and each of you comes with your share. We'll give you your share, do whatever you want with it.' Well, some would wave the flag, others wouldn't.
But as shareholders, we have the right to get involved, to say, 'Hey, what's going on?' What's going on with this performance? Explain this situation to me.
Like the shareholders, because that's when it's said that what belongs to the state belongs to everyone.
When it belongs to everyone, it belongs to no one; it controls. That's the point.
So, it can't be done, there's no way to demand it, and the few attempts to involve the Comptroller's Office were met with a barrage of criticism.
So we're going to have a huge problem. And note that among the anecdotes that are told, at one point the window foundation passed to Codelco. Because? Because Enani, which owned the window, was having cash flow problems, it sold it to Codelco.
Well, when the foundry was in Nami's hands, it was within what was good, more or less, but it was maintained. Upon passing to Cró loss.
Because? Why did he switch to working with Codelco's costs and then it stopped working? Because with those costs, of course, since it was at its limit, it couldn't take it anymore. So what we have here is a sustained abuse that has been occurring in a company where there is no incentive to be efficient.
So, how is CODCO being funded?
Entamente, instead of producing cabbage, is incorporating lithium; it is partnering with other mines, transforming itself into a holding company, and from there it is making some money.
And what's the problem with that? The thing is, when you set production goals and salaries are based on those, costs don't matter because if you base it on profit, you say, "Well, how much did you produce? How much did it cost you? And what did you earn?" But since they are metroduction, then the incentive is misplaced.
Now we're going to see an interview here, a gentleman named Alfredo Enrion, who we're going to see here is that he has a column and we're going to take a look at it.
One second. It's playing.
The microphone sounds bad. I'm going to take it out.
Yes, please.
Okay.
We'll fix that. And there. I already have to learn how to use the microphone.
Okay, so what happened? This man is responsible for the biggest corporate governance scandal in Chilean history.
You click on the green part and the article will appear.
The man interviewed him, he says, "The biggest corporate governance scandal in history," he says in the article, "was Polar until this happened, not now, but when six workers died at Codel."
And what does this Mrs. Orione say in Rone? Sorry, it was accompanied by an interview that Mrs. Nico Rodríguez did with him, which I also shared so that you can listen to it. That's what the first thing it says is that there's a problem, which is the issue of state ownership.
When the Chilean state withdraws COVID-related funds, what is the difference compared to companies like Escondida or others? Take the picture.
Thank you. Companies like Escondida, what happens with companies like that, is that they don't take all the profit from the company, they leave 20%, 15%, 10% for reinvestment.
Codelco gives them 3.2% and sometimes even forces them to go into debt. In other words, the theoretical owner, the state shareholder, doesn't leave him any money. So, since it doesn't make him money, he can't be renewing, looking for new materials, etc. The second problem, he says, is that when these goals are achieved with that incentive of bonuses, another thing that is sacrificed is safety.
Clear. And the unions, since everyone there is received, what do I know, etc. Well, old man, do you like receiving millions?
Then, he recounts a series of irregularities and even says that there are two complete mines operating and that nobody below the lieutenant knows that they are being exploited. Well, that explains everything.
Another point he makes is that while Chile is forced to change many things as a result of the agreements with the OECD, he says that the board has never in its history had more than one mining expert offering their opinion.
Then he says, I'm not saying that Mr. Pacheco isn't a tremendous lawyer or that another gentleman isn't a tremendous economist. That's fine, but there are no mining engineers, and mining engineers are the ones who ask the right questions.
So, if there's no mining expert, who's also looking at the safety aspect, that's another factor.
So what caused this?
Safety is sacrificed and covered up with ponchos.
So this thing requires major surgery and there's already talk, because obviously, of privatizing at least part of it to have shareholders who can get involved and have a say.
Let's see. Okay, now that we've covered that introduction, let's listen to what Mr. Jaim Muler said.
A month and a half ago, right here on this podium, I denounced a very important fact based on the information I had received.
I said that Codelco had altered, that there was a well-founded suspicion that it had altered the production figures for 2025 to appear to be increasing production, and I said this because I had doubts about whether the workers would earn the bonus or not and meet the goals set by Codelco. Today we learned that a preliminary internal report from Codelco detects an overestimation of 20,000 tons in the production for the year 2025, particularly in the month of December.
This is an extremely serious matter.
I have been asking since 2022 for an in- depth study to be done, a Marcel-type commission to really study Codelco. During the last three or four administrations, Codelco has revealed that it is a company with acute, difficult problems within. The production that they estimated in 2014 should have been produced this year was 2.4 million tons, but they are producing 1.3 million tons, and there is also fraud in production. Regarding these 20,000 tons that were allegedly adulterated to appear as having a higher production than in 2024, this is very serious.
An international commission is required to conduct an audit; Codelco's internal audits are not sufficient. Codelco has been lying to us for many years. Why mention the cost overruns of the Chuquigamata project, the El Salvador project, the Inca project, the Teniente project, and the Andina project? All projects were undervalued, their prices were underestimated, and they cost or cost three or four times more, and production never materializes. Why tell him about the foundries? They even had a chimney collapse. Why even mention the Codelco building? So, now what we had reported has been proven. This is very serious. We will do everything necessary to make sure the truth comes out. We are even preparing a criminal complaint because there is a crime here. Here at least there is fraudulent administration which is now a criminal offense. And perhaps we are only now studying other crimes, because this is very serious. Codelco belongs to all Chileans. Today the minister was most celebrating the great price of copper, which is around 6.50.
dollars per pound of collection, a spectacular price for the country and Codelco has given a lot to the country, but during the last few years it has deteriorated and we have to find out about that and get to the bottom of it to restore and have a decent, clean company that is producing and that is at the service of Chileans. Otherwise, it will end up being privatized by those who have always wanted to keep Codel. I do n't want that to happen, and to achieve that, we need to get to the truth.
Who cares?
Well, I agree with Mr. Jaime, many points, but there's one issue here: of course, if they're not going to end up privatizing it, how can we not start talking about privatization if he himself is saying that he's been lying for years?
The question is, what's the difference between a public and a private company?
In a public company, it turns out that unless there is an audit or a complaint, there are no shareholders reviewing the situation. There are n't any if they count. That's why he says, "Well, well, they haven't lied, they're telling us a story."
Well, a private company has shareholders who invested money and they say, "What happened to my money?"
But we, who are supposedly the owners, cannot do it.
We are prevented because of the state, the sacred state. Then they say, "No, now those who want to privatize, but if it's the natural effect of the disaster, what more do they want us to add?"
Apart from that, well, totally total, but there we see the disaster, because the one who oversees it is the owner and the same thing happens in other things, in environmental matters.
Environmental authorities are much more tolerant of Codelco because it is state-owned; if they are monitoring from one pocket to another, it's different with Coyahuá, they are like jackals with other companies.
No, because we make money from that too. So, obviously, voices are starting to emerge, but it's not because, hey, look what they came up with; it's because if Goberco had worked well, who would think of privatizing it if it does n't make sense? Why bother if it's working on a little clock?
It works spectacularly, doesn't it?
So, of course not, don't say that, look how you come up with that. Obviously it happens as a result of the nonsense. What did Mr. Mocha say?
From Codelco's perspective, it was privatized. It belongs to the executives and the workers, not to the rest of the country.
It's a disgrace. Codelco is a disaster. Let's see, in all its numbers it owes 20 billion dollars. It's a disaster.
Its profitability is extremely low. Today it has become insignificant from the point of view of contributing money to the State. It's a disaster. Uh, all of Codelco's costs are higher than those of private companies.
The number of companies related to former executives who leave and have companies that are contractors for Codelco is shocking. Codelco is in bad shape no matter how you look at it, it's very bad.
And it so happens that in some, let's see, if copper weren't at these high prices, Cobrodel wouldn't be earning a single peso; a little lower and it wouldn't earn a single peso. And from that point of view, Codelco was privatized. It belongs to the executives and the workers, not to the rest of the country.
This company is currently a disgrace, with a series of failed structural projects.
The same line we've been following.
So, well, let's see if we can achieve anything, because a large part of that money that is raised ends up going to the same parties.
Then the moment hears him, but old man, be quiet. Remember how much or with what the ex-executive counts.
Now they have companies that sell to Codel, right? and probably with guaranteed contracts because executive, hey, I'm going to sell you such and such and well, we're cutting corners there.
That's how political maneuvering stole the country. That's what politicking, which is poor quality politics, is all about.
So, and now, of course, then no, it can't be, but how are we going to see how much it arrives, but at least let it be discussed and known. Let's continue now by talking about Arreglin. Let's listen. Ah, Carlos Arquier, another person we're going to see if we hear something about code theory, a trust problem, compliance.
We have an agency problem now with this deviation of the 20,000 metric tons that were incorporated which according to the IFC108 protocol, obviously in the internal protocol regulations that Codelco has, were not in finished products, they were in process. So this smells like you increased production to get better results, so you would have inflated the final results. We need to look into this in the mining commission. We need to summon the auditors, the presidents, whoever it may be, to give us explanations and restore, I insist, not to persecute individuals, but to restore trust as in any business, and obviously Celco, which is in the first quartile of the world's largest mining companies, has to be up to the standard of compliance and good accountability and everything must be audit-proof. We have a trust problem.
Look, look at what this gentleman says, not to persecute people. What do you mean, no?
If balance sheet manipulation, cost inflation, and increased production are done by people, not by artificial intelligence or a computer, then by a person. As well as the recent deaths of six of the lieutenant's workers, there is a lawsuit and a criminal investigation. I believe more than 30 executives are already involved, violating safety regulations because of this pressure from the state to extract all the money, telling them, "No, all that money was given and donated by the miners." That's the vibe.
So, a state-owned company, just like a worker in the currency, because he had to work 18 hours or others would commit suicide. If that's the vibe.
So, the state is one of the worst employers in Chile.
So we'll see. Let's now go to where Mrs. Camila Vallejos, who is the mother-in-law and brother-in-law of Camila Vallejo, billed 1209 million pesos to the Public Hospital during the Boric government. While serving as Minister of the General Secretariat of Government in the administration of President Gabriel Boric, Camila Vallejo referred on several occasions to the importance of making progress on issues of probity and transparency. But the truth is that in her declaration of interests and assets available on infopruidad.cl, the spokesperson minister made an important omission. According to Law 20,880, in this document the Secretaries of State must include the names of all their first and second degree relatives, and the minister did not include the name of her mother-in-law and all her brothers-in-law. Why is this relevant? Because the company Doctor Andrea San Martín and Company Limited, which until 2018 had Vallejo's husband, the musician Abel Cicabo San Martín, as its majority shareholder, is now in the hands of the former minister's brothers-in-law, Claudio Camilo Cicabo San Martín and Valeria Andrea Cicabo San Martín. of his mother-in-law, the doctor Andrea Colomba, San Martín Palma, and of her husband, Osvaldo Armando Anguiló Melo. In the last 15 years, this company issued invoices to the Hermida Martín Hospital of Chillán for 2,156,918,205es.
During the government of President Gabriel Boric, he appears on a total of 53 ballots issued for a total amount of 10,209,142,236.
In other words, while Camila Vallejo served as a State Minister, the company of her brothers-in-law, her mother-in-law and her mother-in-law's husband received 56% of the money in sales that she has made to the State in the last 15 years.
Sources close to Camila Vallejo told El Líbero that, as shown on the Mercado Público website, it is a medical company that operates on the platform, which has records that are public and transparent. They also point out that the former minister's spouse ceased to be part of this company in 2018 before she assumed any position in the government. regarding his declaration of interests and assets in the environment of the former Secretary of State. They say he corrected the information through the official platform and complies with all legal requirements.
What do you think of this dear former minister when she makes her declaration of relatives, which is required by law, she forgot her mother-in-law and brothers-in-law who coincidentally issued invoices for billions from public hospitals.
We repeat, this is how they plunder the country, and this is the government, and look here, the Libero company of mother-in-law and brothers-in- law billed 1209 million from a public hospital during Bor Bueno's government. Let's see if this is thoroughly investigated and if there are criminal actions because this issue has already spiraled out of control.
Therefore, we need to start examining the digital state, that is, that there are digital controls, that it goes through platforms that are put in place and that are not incentivized.
So, well, hopefully there will be a thorough investigation.
Now we're going to start to see a little bit of the attitude of the opposition, who are clueless. We'll mention that comment. So what are they doing? Let's listen to Mr. Pug, who is legitimately very angry.
Oh, sorry, this is one that the unfiltered one made about these people talking about the past government, including and talking about the poor and the people who need to be helped and social justice. Look at what Mr. Ivá is denouncing here, who earns 7.3 million pesos a month, and the one [clearing throat] below is the lady from Inter who earns 3.7 million pesos a month in the currency.
Oh no.
Then the rich in government, but they grab you en masse.
And I'm going to tell you something that's worse, Cheverry. Not only do you earn 12 and a half million, but it's paid to you by these people you call rich who earn 11 times less than you. We have another gra to show us if we have more time. Already. Last.
Echverry, [clears throat] I told you this last time, but you don't want to understand. I'm going to show you how you raised the property valuations and I'm going to show you where the people who are now paying taxes are who did n't pay before. These are the new contributors. Where did I come from?
The rich.
The nouveau riche. 59% live in Puente Alto, come from Maipú, La Florida, La Sisten and Pudahuel. There's your ABC1, your Beverly Hills, Gonzalo Gualmapu 20 who earns 7.3.
This is very interesting.
What's going on? What is it? Many of these people who talk about the rich, the rich when they themselves have salaries from the hyper-elite, that is, cynicism and double standards prevail, but what is the other issue, the tax on supermarkets, what is being announced in terms of contributions.
During the last government, hundreds of billions of dollars left Chile, taken out by the super rich, that is, they took it everywhere. I have some acquaintances who left the country, saying, "No, this country is going to go to hell."
Some are only just starting to return as a result of the political shift following our experience with Mr. B. There's still a long way to go. That's why the project includes an incentive to return.
But what's going on? And this brings us to the issue of contributions. This always happens. It turns out he says, "We're going to tax the richest people."
So, the mansions, in that job, whatever, they're going to pay more. Speaking of Santiago, how the super rich often either leave, have good accountants, or it's eventually discovered that it wasn't that much money.
Then the political world discovers that the middle class was super rich and that's when they start collecting taxes in Maipú, in the other districts, which is what he 's denouncing, I mean, in Puente Alto, it suddenly became full of super rich people and the same thing always happens because it's a myth that we super rich people are going to charge them and we'll have enough for everything because that's not true. It has been mentioned more than once that if you add up all the fortunes, the top 10 fortunes in Chile, the Chilean state will eat it up in a year, if not sooner. That's how long it lasts.
So, of course, it wasn't that much money.
So, the middle classes, right?
These are super rich. And that's why he's saying, he's saying to him, "Mr. Vter, you who earn seven, according to you, a super rich person, someone who earns one."
And so they keep abusing and abusing and abusing. That's why many people want to eliminate and it's so popular to eliminate the property tax, at least where the family lives, because if I have a second one that I rent out, well, at least I pay with the rent, that's the issue.
Then they realize the abuse, that's the problem with politicking, because instead of saying, well, let the people do it and leave them the money, no, we're going to take it and we're going to do more justice. Look at the justice that Codel is doing to the hospitals.
Super fair.
So we'll see how things go. Okay. That relates to Mr. Podugil's analysis. Of course, the fascists showed up, I call them fascists on the subway.
That.
Well, the only thing I hope, and I get the impression that this was the case, is that they felt the rejection from the people, because one thing, when I read that the Chileans had convinced that violence was not the way, on my networks I put Chile woke up.
[laughs] So, and I think Chile has woken up recently. So, I hope those guys felt the rejection of most people, that they were breaking the subway, that the people who go to work and get up early in parts to pay for the infrastructure they have, and then they go and bother and mess with it. Then, well, the fascists appeared. So, those fascists who went to disrupt the subway, etc. So we're going to see what was obviously going to happen and was announced, and most importantly, I hope the intelligence agencies are keeping a close eye on who organized this.
We'll see. We're going to listen now to an Argentinian commentator on this topic of the super-rich, whom I follow quite a bit because she gives very powerful ideas in small ways. Let's listen.
In California, an economy the size of Japan or Germany, you don't just vote for a governor, you could vote on a tax for the super-rich. This has already happened. 2022 in Massachusetts with the result that it is one of the few states that has not managed to recover its pre-COVID employment level. It was also tested in New York, and listen to this. The iconic New York-based Goldman Sax has already built a giant field in Dallas, Texas, and JP Morgan Chase already has more employees in Texas than in New York. Yes, these are incentives that transcend ideology, because when you raise taxes, you don't punish the rich, you change where they invest, you change where they create jobs, and that generates a domino effect. Capital doesn't argue, it moves. So the question isn't just whether some people like the tax, it's also whether it's ethical to overburden those who generate the most wealth more than proportionally, and whether it's possible to sustain activity and employment levels if investors start leaving. States don't empty out overnight, but they start to do so when the incentives are no longer right. I can read you quite clearly this year when taxes on the super-rich will start to rise. You don't get more revenue, you change where wealth starts to be generated. That's your problem and that's what's happening to you. It ends past New York City. I think there was another one there. Well, you already mentioned Massachusetts, there are several more, four or five with socialist mayors, and the companies left there for Texas, Florida, where the most partisan market economy leaders started receiving a flood of money without lifting a finger at their desks. They'll have to look into that. But these people are stubborn because they say, "Oh no, then let's look for a total control mechanism and what happens to the country's money?"
That's exactly what happened to us.
So that argument doesn't work, but he insists that with that money they would make the world fairer, much fairer.
Well, for them, yes, much fairer.
So, well, we'll see.
Next, we're going to listen to a recording where we can see how they call a minister ignorant and irresponsible, and he responds. It only lasts a few minutes, but I like that Minister Quiro is responding. Let's listen. The reform proposed by the government is a reform for the super-rich. It's not just a metaphor; it's something we're really talking about, and it's reflected in the numbers, especially in the point under discussion: the reduction of the corporate tax and also in the reintegration that, through you, Madam President, some colleagues have pointed out previously.
The reduction in the corporate tax alone represents almost $2 billion less in revenue for the State.
And where do those resources come from?
More than 79% of that lower revenue, that lower payment to the State, goes to the benefit of the richest 1% of the country. That is the one whose contribution to Chile will be reduced, their contribution to the State in order to properly finance the social rights of everyone. Moreover, OPS makes a calculation based on the tax statistics report and it is very interesting to be able to see not only the 1% but the 0.01% richest in the country. Do you know how much profit that percentage will generate? In other words, the 100 richest people in Chile, just from the reduction of the first category tax, represent more than 448 million pesos per year for each of the richest people in the country, of the 100 richest people in the country. If we add to that the benefit they will receive from tax reintegration if the government's project finally moves forward, it totals more than 550 million pesos directly from the tax coffers to the 100 people, each of them among the richest in our country. Therefore, it is not rhetoric, it is not a metaphor, but this project is indeed irresponsibly allocating the resources of all Chileans, as has been stated by the Autonomous Fiscal Council, the International Monetary Fund, etc., to the richest people in our country. I call for reflection and I call for protecting and caring for the resources of all Chileans that allow us to be a country that has rights and that wants to advance in a better quality of life and not in diminishing the rights that have been guaranteed in our country. So I regret this proposal from the government, both the first category tax and the reintegration, which are aspects that are directly harming our country. What's more, these cuts are already being translated into reductions; we 've seen it in health, with 400 billion pesos less, and in each of the portfolios. So here, not only are the resources of Chileans being put at eventual risk, but damages are already being generated, and our sector will not be able to support the transfer of resources from everyone to the richest in the country.
Congresswoman, the Minister of Finance has the floor.
Mr. President, I feel compelled to intervene because the string of statements and phrases that are downright ignorant of certain basic economic realities force me to explain it, and ultimately for the benefit of those watching on television.
First, I want to clarify some language because Representative Hasler just said that, irresponsibly, this project is bringing resources to the richest people in the country, and in that same sentence she cited the International Monetary Fund and the Autonomous Fiscal Council, institutions that never used those expressions in that context, as she has pointed out.
Secondly, I would like to put the numbers into perspective. It has been said here that this project will cause a loss of 2 billion dollars.
What nobody says is that the deficit we received in March, the last 12 months, is 10 billion dollars. They're tearing their hair out here because taxes are being lowered to generate growth.
I would like to do a very simple number.
Let's see how much the OGde corporate charge is, not the rate, the charge.
The corporate burden of the OGde as a percentage of GDP is 11.9%.
In Chile, we are collecting 25.3% of our total revenue from corporate taxes.
4.6 points of GDP average corporate burden under 3. In the case of the OCE.
I would also like to talk about the largest companies that have been mentioned here.
There are 150,000 companies, of which 135,000 presidents bill less than 100,000 UF per year.
There are approximately 100,000 small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) trapped in the definition of large companies, article 14a.
What has the old regime left us? He has left us with promises of high taxes to raise and finance social benefits. How are we funding social benefits? With only debt because there is no growth.
What did the Autonomous Fiscal Council tell us when it analyzed the figures from the administration that just ended?
that the only long-term solution for Chile, the only one, there is no other, is growth.
And there's no mystery here. There's no mystery here. If you stifle businesses with regulations like the ones we are trying to remove in this project or reduce the tangle of permits and obstacles.
If you burden businesses with taxes and disincentives, what you will get is what we have gotten so far in the last 12 years: abysmal growth and well-being financed with debt. That's what we're changing with this project, and that's the solid figure, referring, well, to the typical discourse, this is going to favor the super rich.
The minister responds, because he also calls him responsible for what he calls ignorant, because unfortunately we have seen here that words lead to words.
Then, of course, the minister begins to react. Now he says, "We have a $10 billion deficit that we inherited.
We are lowering taxes to increase growth."
And it says, look, the corporate burden, it says, uh, of the rest of the OECD it's 11%, Chilean companies 25%. What is corporate burden? what is paid after the loans, depreciation, etc. have been taken out. In other words, as a total burden of what companies pay, they pay much more in Chile than in the rest of the OECD. Furthermore, he denounces an abuse. He says there are a lot of companies that are in the category of large companies when they are SMEs because the profit ranges are manipulated to include them; that is, they discovered that the middle class is made up of millionaires. In other words, it's always the same.
And finally, the Autonomous Fiscal Council quotes us as saying that the only way out of this is through growth. There is no other. And to achieve growth, he says, gentlemen, we have to become more competitive. And to become more competitive, we need to lower taxes.
Now there is a consensus to lower taxes, but well, it seems that the reform is going to pass, but we'll see how the Senate proceeds, because these people who are in love with the State, that is, with themselves, because they work for the State, believe that they are going to do it better, like in Codelo. Wonderfully good. So, imagine.
Well, let's see now what happened to Mr. Poduje with this opposition that appeared.
How are you? I am here at the National Congress. We came here basically to do nothing. Uh, we've lost 6 hours. We were summoned to the Housing Committee of the Chamber of Deputies to present our analysis of the Comptroller's report on the emergency housing plan regarding land, where we found very serious shortcomings within the Ministry and we are taking measures to reverse them, but they did not let us speak. A member of parliament from the Broad Front simply gave us the quorum so that we could speak. And I want to first apologize to the taxpayers, to the Chileans who pay taxes, who pay my salary and to the six people who came from my team, who are back there in two cars, to the three housing committees that I had to postpone because I came to Valparaíso to do nothing, to stroll around, to be, well, in the room for an hour.
Of course, I was able to listen to the comptroller, who defended her report, which is very compelling, but the comptroller mandated us as a ministry to do a job that we did and came to show, but the obstructionism that we are seeing is a very complicated thing because here we are talking about land, land that was bought and that has not been occupied despite the housing emergency, that cannot be occupied because of the regulations that have all the work we have done to incorporate the entire land bank into the Civis platform, which was not done that way, a computer platform that we have because it was managed with a parallel team.
There we have another expense of money that no sir produced from Congress, I moved two cars, personnel etc., and they didn't let me speak.
And he says that with this obstructionist opposition we have, because they don't make contributions, and that's the tragedy, and we'll see it later in a comment from a gentleman who says that the left doesn't have contributions because all they have to say is let's raise taxes and more social justice, there's nothing else, they can't think of anything else. So, since they can't think of anything else, and we've already tried that formula, we've been trying it since the Hele reform, and it only got worse.
So, evidently, the population is saying, "Let's do something else."
But they don't agree that the population is right, they ca n't wrap their heads around it and have invented this whole super rich story which is a lie. We'll hear about it now.
Radio Cooperativa is miserable, because I think that's what they are. Hey, they get angry. Okay, but wait, what are they doing?
So, they don't care about the country. Point number one. Point number two, they say it openly and they want the government to literally fail this project. And point number three, what is the alternative? What is the proposal?
They just, they just became government. And why are we going to analyze what they were like as a government? Why should we dwell on what they did when Mrs. Bachelet was in power, and how they created this disaster that we still have today? So, I do n't think there is any constructive opposition.
Here's what we have. I would say it is a destructive opposition, an opposition that, in addition to opposing for the sake of opposing, which already causes harm to the country, this opposition has nothing to offer the country. They are a miserable position because I think that well, I was wrong, it's Radio Agricultura, but well, what we were talking about, there is no contribution because it turns out that and this also has to be said, it also happened in the United States, the government, like every government, and especially with this issue of fuel, lost popularity, certainly, but the opposition in the United States did not gain the same.
Trampa has gone down, but the opposition isn't going up because there's no contribution, there isn't. You have to propose a reasonable, intelligent alternative and explain why there is n't one.
So, another gentleman with the last name Chinjón, Chijón, something like that, says something similar. Let's listen.
This moment, not only in Chile, but probably beyond our borders, faces a fundamental, root problem, and it is the following. The left today has nothing to offer Chile and the world. And why? Because they have a diagnosis of a reality that does not exist today. They created a political scheme, a diagnosis, and a doctrine for an industrial society, a society with a proletariat, a society with a working class; in fact, these were part of their slogan and their class consciousness, let's say. And today, picking up on the editorial you just made at the beginning of the program, that society not only no longer exists, but the left is not going to exist again at this moment, not only in Chile, probably.
Well, I must say that I believe it is a society that never existed. It's not that workers and wage earners didn't exist; that did exist. Their interpretation was that the people who started to get rich— because you have to understand one thing, when the industrial revolution appeared, the only rich people were the landowners, who were usually from old noble classes, and everyone else was poor.
Poor things.
When this new way of producing appears, when the machine appears in the background, new fortunes begin to emerge that did not exist before.
Shoemakers, producers, he talks about pins, etc., a series of things and begins to produce other forms of wealth, but that wealth is not produced because the workers were exploited. The error exists.
Wealth is produced because it allowed, for example, a person who produced two or three pairs of shoes a week to produce 20, generate work, and since they now sold 20 pairs and sometimes the quality was better, they began to get rich and generated work. And those are the people who moved from the countryside to the city.
But then they said, "No, this man got rich because he's exploiting those people who came looking for work."
No, first he started to increase his productions and then he absorbed the rest.
People we're talking about during the industrial revolution moved from the countryside to the city, and well, a series of things are described there that are what Marx had to see.
Well, if it was so terrible that the conditions weren't good, of course, why didn't they go back to the fields?
Because even so, it was better there than on the field.
That's the point. People started to have things they didn't have before. For example, weekend, rest. When you work in a field, there is no weekend.
Dairies, animals, don't say, "It's Sunday, today I'm not going to produce milk." That's not the case. It's every day, getting together with friends for a beer. Small details that began to appear in the city that are normal for us today, but were not at that time.
So, slowly, not at the speed one might have liked, not so slowly because you say that in 30 years all those deficiencies that began to arise with the emergence of capitalism have already begun to be corrected, but they continue with that diagnosis and because they continue with that diagnosis they keep trying to lead it to the same thing.
But that diagnosis was always wrong.
So one more day I'm going to take the time to explain the error of the plupalia, but well, now perhaps not very technically, there's no time, but you know that in the long run or the short run I 'll keep my promises to you.
We're going to hear from the same gentleman, uh, this is a minister who analyzes the attitude of the opposition we have.
They are trying to oppose the project in any way they can, but what they really mean is that they are opposing Chile's return to growth.
They were governments, they could have offered Chile different alternatives, but they handed us a country with 925,000 unemployed, 120,000 families in camps. That's not possible, and that's what we want to change by getting the country moving, going from 2% growth to 4% growth. Yeah, and that's our bet. But it is legitimate to present that many indications.
Uh, it's legitimate. They've already been introduced. Well, what it shows is that he has no interest in Chile growing. He has no urgency with the 120,000 families who woke up in a camp today and who need an urgent solution.
The government. Anyway, how do we also reverse that narrative I mentioned, that this is only for the richest people?
That's a speech by a group of politicians. When you travel around Chile, people understand this. I was with the fairground workers in Puertoón last week, I was in Ondacollo, I was in the north and people understand that we need to grow and for that reforms have to be made. We can't keep doing more of the same. Today they are trying to oppose the project in any way possible, only they are opposing Chile's return to growth. They were governments, they could have offered Chile different alternatives, but they handed us a country with 925,000 unemployed. [clears throat] 120,000 families in camp. That's not possible, and that's what we want to change by getting the country moving, going from 2% growth to 4% growth. And that's our bet.
But it is legitimate to present that many indications. Well, there's an opposition saying they do n't want the country to grow again.
Now, here we have tried to understand this logic. Thinking about it well, from a place of good faith, and from a place of good faith, they believe that the businessman is the exploiter, so if we take control away from the exploiter and do it ourselves, in the end we sometimes end up being much more exploitative. Are we seeing it or not, Mr. Garín, along the same lines.
The Chilean state does not provide good goods and services in any area. To give you an idea, the tax rate in Chile on the company, let's say, on business activity as such, was 15% and that rate started to rise with Piñera 1 until it reached 27%, which is the highest in the OECD. So much so that in the AFER curve, which measures revenue by tax rate, Chile is collecting less than it used to collect in percentage terms, because you know, taxes have a diminishing return, that is, you raise taxes and business activity decreases, it doesn't remain comparable over time. So, in Chile something extraordinary, unusual, and incredibly stupid happens: we raise taxes on private entities so that the State has more resources, and what the State does is burn the money. And then, for example, if you measure from 2010 to 2024, the nation's budget rose from approximately $60 billion to $80 billion. These 15 exercises combined will give you approximately 1.5 to 1.4 billion Latin dollars, that is, 1.4 trillion American dollars. To give you an idea, Mexico's GDP, Mexico's annual GDP is 1.5 trillion US dollars. Chile has spent 2010-2024 on Mexico. I ask you, where are the social rights that we fund? Our Scandinavian educational system, our Punta Arena Arica supertrain. What did we do with the money?
Could you tell me specifically where the money that the Chilean State spent is? We have the best paved streets in the world. No, our municipalities are debt-free, they are not over-indebted, in fact. Oh, and where's the money? Let's see how if the Chilean state spends what it has never spent in its history in 10, 15 years and nothing concrete has been done with that money. Therefore, if we increase public spending from 80 billion to 100 billion, if we continue to raise taxes on private activity and make the Afer curve fall like never before, will the State be able to create a more or less decent education or health system? The answer is no, because what needs to be reformed is the budget law in the way the money is spent. That's what Briones called zero-based budgeting, right? Briones, an expert at burning good ideas, burned that idea. So, think about this, Mr. Garín, taxes go up, we start collecting less, they put in more money, things improved, he says where the money is. In foundations, in huge salaries, and some that we'll probably never know where they ended up.
I hope there will also be an investigative commission to finally determine what happened to all that money and all those foundations, of which there are only one or two that I think, but they generated I do n't know how many, hundreds I think.
Well, there's another reason to investigate. It is one of the functions of the deputies, particularly speaking of committees, Hans Marowski, deputy of the National Libertarian Party, informs us of good news and the session is opened. We are going to formally hand over the bell, which is number five, where the president says he will lead the destiny of this important commission.
Today, the Special Investigative Commission was established to gather all information on government actions and all government offices that were responsible for the prevention, containment, and control of the violence during the social uprising of October 18, 2019, in order to determine if political parties were involved and who also organized, financed, and carried out the violence in the streets. And we hope that all those invited to testify before this committee and provide information will appear because Chile deserves it. The purpose is to arrive at the truth and provide guarantees of non- repetition.
Well, a commission to investigate what happened on that 18th of 2019, October 18th I think, I don't remember what happened there.
There were no foreign interventions; all intelligence agencies have to respond, although there are laws that protect information. Let's see, maybe it's a secret. There was a lot of speculation. Remember that, for example, Inspector Vallejos recounts on Twitter that they detected a significant influx of Cubans and Venezuelans, and that they warned the government. Nothing happened. There was also a lot of political involvement, particularly from the far left. Well, and the other thing that I don't know if it's official information from the United States, because apparently President Trump warned President Piñera, well, what information did the United States have? Let's see if she shares it. What happened?
What did they know?
Or there are posts here once we show one. So, that whole story is interesting because I think this point needs to be clarified now, and if something else were to be discovered that seemed to me—well, of course, that version seems ridiculous to me— that a girl wrote a lady or young lady, I don't know, about having been a police officer. Well, I think it's absolutely ridiculous. Well, let them investigate it from my point of view to prove that it's not just a fantasy, but also to close that absurd chapter. So, to wrap things up before moving on to the questions, here's a short post that came up. The left disarmed Chile, the Communist Party took control of the armed forces' payroll and suspended strategic funds for 4 consecutive years.
Okay, let's read a little bit here. Let's open it and see what it says. Data verified from infodefensa.com, defensa.com and redcastrense. Galostein, a PC militant for 50 years, was in charge of the PC's defense commission and the first communist to head the undersecretariat for the armed forces.
He controlled the payroll for 3 years and all of Chile's war materiel. The 2022, 23, 24 and 26 budget laws suspended strategic defense funds. Peru bought 246 blocks of 70 for 3.5 billion dollars. Chile has not held a session in its defense committees for 3 years.
Sabotage has a name, surname, and car.
Well, if something like that were to be proven, I think it would warrant a public official.
Uh, I don't think it reaches the tradition of the homeland, not because I don't believe there is something of that, but because it is reserved, they left it reserved for military crimes.
But I believe this would require a thorough investigative commission because, as we discussed in the last program, there were threats from an Argentine admiral, and now from someone linked to a Peruvian candidate.
Bolivia is missing from both sides, which would n't surprise me because, as they're protesting, etc., well, they always remember the issue of access to the sea.
This isn't about starting a war, etc., it's about not getting screwed over. And these people seem to want us screwed over because they want their revolution.
Probably if the Chileans had known that this gentleman from the Communist Party, in the event that he bought this, was going to be like this, well, I think they wouldn't have had a chance of winning, but that's how it was and it's good that these things are made public, so that we can see who we're up against. Okay, let's see. I don't know if there are any questions.
RTA, very grateful for the channel's contribution. Much obliged. How can the tax benefits be transferred to the wealthiest? Where does the State generate money to pass on to taxpayers?
These leftists from Iran, they have a very strange conception that from the moment it becomes public, it's as if it was generated there [laughs] and they didn't take it away from someone. Of course, you're absolutely right, Mr. Herrete, that money was generated by the private sector, rich or not rich, and we're already seeing a lot of middle-class people who have become rich getting connected. So, if the state doesn't generate money, if it takes it from us, then what is it talking about? You are absolutely right, Mr. RP.
Very good comment.
Thank you for your contribution.
Business TV shows are talking about a disaster in Europe. Mers is worried because pensioners will not be able to afford rent for where to live. The same will happen to young people.
Of course. If we mention that Germany wants to reduce spending, I think it's by 2030, they're talking about reducing healthcare spending by 30 billion euros.
15,000 this year and 15,000 next year.
Something's out there. Because? Because of the enormous, endless waste of resources, especially with the uncontrolled immigration that began to take its toll. They're even talking—for the first time I've seen a social democratic or more right-leaning government, let's say—about expelling people, you know what? Enough already, like they're doing all over the world.
We're going to see this fight, although I think the German case is very complex, and the English one because it involves people who are already sitting there, so it's not just a matter of arriving and doing it.
Well, populations are reacting, populations that, by the way, as has been said a lot, are going to be smaller and smaller, because many immigrants have many children, as has happened, and also from very different cultures.
That issue is very complex and I believe it is practically unmanageable.
I believe it's just a matter of time before the Germany we once knew disappears. So, let's see how you're doing. They should interrogate Maduro and ask him if he financed the explosion.
Well, I could go on a job to the United States.
Well, one can do that. If you speak to the American prosecutor in charge of that, say, "Please, could you ask these questions?" Sure, there might have to be legal action, but at least you can ask. So okay, Mr. Jerko. Of course it would have to be done.
Monica Caceres. The state does not create wealth, the state brings wealth where others do not. Absolutely. And that's what's so unusual, these people who set their own salaries as if they generated them.
Because if someone provides great service and their business is doing very well because people pay them, well, in a market economy I'm not obligated to buy from them, I can say no. But if I go to supermarket X, it's because they treat me well and because they have the products I want, right? Well, if the owner of your supermarket is a millionaire, it's because he's giving me good service. So, Bienvenecido has a salary.
What do these men do to earn those salaries? They are providing us with such an important service.
Then, I completely agree, Ms. Monica.
We have no legal recourse for writing a communist party that manages to return to Congress only to hinder a solution to the economic stagnation. If we have them, article 19, number 15, the Constitution sanctions parties that propose violence and that has to go through a complaint before SERVEL and that goes later to the Qualifying Court of Elections, I think, if I don't remember the procedure, but it does exist.
What's lacking are politicians who have the resolve to do it.
So yes, it can be done. So, the agreement that the Communist Party made with the National Libertarian Party would have to be agreed upon. Let's not forget that they asked for the party to be dissolved because of an interview Joanes gave to Mr. Monchati. That's why they asked for it to be dissolved, not consolidated.
Okay, so what's up? of the party. Now we do have leaders, even members of parliament from the party, calling for people to take to the streets to oppose us. It's already started to happen.
Well, I hope they make the decision to do it and we'll see what happens there too, because etcetera.
Tatiana from Chile, dear Pablo, are you aware that nobody talks about the royalty that is assigned to the municipalities when they complain about the issue of contributions?
Yes, but it turns out, I mean, I've seen some that are generating some return, but it didn't turn out as they wanted, as usual, it was less money. And a part of the Ry has a big problem, Mrs. Tatiana, there is a part that focuses on sales and when you collect sales taxes, what you are doing is creating an incentive for the company to adjust to sell more, but not necessarily to have more profit, because selling, of course, I can sell at rock-bottom prices.
So, especially with state-owned ones. So I don't think that will happen with private companies, but it does affect the company's structure. It's not a good idea imposed on sales. Bad idea, and the Royal Crist has a bit of that.
Why don't they just say that the left is impoverishing, Mr. Ro? Well, I have no problem saying it here. The left is impoverishing because, if it succeeds—and several leaders, especially in Latin America, have said this— if people stop being poor, they will not vote for them. Their discourse is being killed. In fact, it is said that one of the reasons why they invaded Chile with migration was to prevent it from escaping poverty. Even further, since we mentioned Germany, Angela Merkel stated that they opened up immigration because they realized that the far-right was growing.
So these people, they're not interested in their country, they're interested in positioning themselves, continuing to earn tremendous salaries at the expense of the people; if they have to sacrifice them so they can continue, they'll sacrifice them. In short, they do n't eat the criminals who entered through illegal immigration. In the neighborhoods where they live, those things don't happen; others eat them.
The children of the town. This is how it works. So it's good to look at these champions. So yes, I agree. María Angélica Patiño Guzmán. Minister PU is doing an excellent job, that's true, but they're making him go there and waste time. I hope that ignorant, civic-minded people understand and don't vote for these miserable parasites.
No, Ms. Maria Angelica, I believe that showing this kind of opposition, and we'll see in the upcoming municipal elections, will have a cost because, of course, even if you're on the left, which isn't my case, you expect your political sector to contribute from its perspective, but you don't expect it to just be constantly undermining, so it doesn't surprise me. We're going to see these matches start to become more like Givaro's. I hope so. So, well, because of that attitude. Mr. Irazi, where did that large amount of money go that was collected during the previous government of which you were a part? By what moral right are you speaking?
Well, we have no idea where he went, because some judges have even prohibited investigating bank accounts.
That's another thing that needs to be addressed by the judicial branch. So I don't know what time it is.
8:15 It's been an hour and a quarter already.
Doña María Angélica. Well, the little goody-two-shoes is talking pure nonsense. The Sierra Bella clinic business sends its regards, as does its accomplice, the Cariola, with the Chinese.
Well, Mrs. Maria Angelica, indeed those are things that happened, people saw them and we are going to see the costs they are having. Well, thank you. I need to sort out the microphone issue. I don't know what happened. Someone put me there, talking as if through megaphones.
Maybe I speak too loudly, like I used to, and now with the microphone... I'll see, I'll ask if he can tune it. Otherwise, we continue as before.
Well, have a good week.
I hope you enjoyed yourselves, and God willing, we'll see each other next time.
Greetings.
[music] [music] [music] [music]
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