High Court of Karnataka Live telecast of Court Proceedings of CH-10 on 22.07.2026 at 2.30 P.M

[00:00:10]forch.

[00:00:39]for Mailch.

[00:01:10]You know, I just read this to show you but according to you have given 400 pages.

[00:01:30]>> We have given 400 pages on the first year in Ind,350. He did not receive it.

[00:01:34]He records the proceedings in his own way. But what is next required is it is an inquiry section 25 inquiry. The registister who conducts an inquiry or the officer who is authorized to conduct the inquiry exercises the power of a civil court. Kindly have a look at the rules section 25. I will read and then go to the rules. Me rules at Yes. 25 suggest.

[00:02:12][cough] But section 25 is an enabling provision. The resistor may on his own motion and shall on an application of the majority of the members of the governing body or of not less than onethird of the members of the society hold an inquiry or direct some person authorized by him in order in writing in accordance with the rules made in this behalf to hold an inquiry into constitution working and financial condition of the registered society.

[00:02:46]Then the register or the person authorized by him under subsection one shall have the following powers. Namely, he shall at all reasonable times have free access to the books, accounts, documents, security, cash and other properties belonging to or in custody of society.

[00:03:08]Documents secure produce the same at any place at the headquarters of the society or the branch thereof. He may summon any person who has reason to believe had the knowledge of any affairs of the society to appear before him in any place at the headquarters of the society or any branch thereof and he may examine such person on both. He may not withstanding anything contained in this act or in any rule or regulation prescribing the period of notice for a general meeting of society require the governing body of the society to call for a general meeting at such time and place at the headquarters of the society or any branch thereof to determine such matters as we directed by him. If the governing body of the society refuses or fails to call a meeting, he shall have the power to call it himself. Any meeting called under clause one shall have the powers of general meeting called under the rules and regulations of the society and its proceedings shall be regulated by such rules. When an inquiry is made under this section, register shall communicate the result of the enquiry to the society concerned. But this is the extensive powers which is vested in the register of the societies. He cannot say that I am going to decide a dispute like an adversarial litigation. This is an inquisitorial proceedings which is conducted. Therefore the word used is inquiry. He has to conduct an inquiry.

[00:04:15]He has got access to everything. Now assuming lords that the office bearsers are not cooperating. He can go himself and take a custody of all the documents which is available. He can summon any person whom he suspects is having the custody of the documents for the purpose of looking into as to whether these allegations are true or correct.

[00:04:33]>> Is it your case that you have not given or is it your case that you have given?

[00:04:36]Lords we have we offered to give these documents. He never accepted these documents once 400 once 1,350.

[00:04:43]>> Other documents that you want to give with you?

[00:04:44]>> We have it.

[00:04:46]>> Yes madam.

[00:04:47]>> We have it. Can just one more statement.

[00:04:49]Now >> the other exercise which is undertaken is he says that uh this is to be done but what is to be done in an inquiry?

[00:04:58]These are all serious matters. I wanted to say this once he wants to recommend for appointment of an administrator it is an expropriatory exercise because a body which is coming into existence in accordance with law he cannot dislodge it. What is that which is required to do is there are 35 allegations in relation to each one of the allegation. He has to record a finding. Inquiry officer is required to record a finding. This is the allegation. This is the statement made. this is the materials which I have collected on the basis of which I'm reaching this findings he cannot say >> come to a conclusion that you are not given now you are ready to whether you gave it or not you are ready to give it now >> then the the order of the uh of the uh government bel kindly have a look at the order of the government >> just one just their main grievance is whatever they wanted to give has not been considered now your contention is it was not given now that they are ready to give we'll Set this aside. Let them give the papers. You consider all the papers.

[00:06:01]>> My lords, even now he can cooperate with the inquiry. The inquiry, we have asked the administrator to give the documents.

[00:06:07]The administrator says it's under lock and key.

[00:06:10]>> Administrator is a different >> administrator has now taken over. My lord, it is uh my lord's two uh two arguments. My >> administrator has already taken over.

[00:06:18]>> He has taken over in the month of J April >> after filing the petition. Okay. Then you complete your argument. Kindly have a look at my notes. Now page number 70 an R1 12 your lot may kindly take which is filed along with the statement of objections.

[00:06:34]The apathy is that the order appointing the administrator is not communicated to the society. It goes to the administrator and administrator comes and says that I I want to take charge 14th my lords we have filed this petition 14 lots will see 145 >> planet senior council my lords >> did you file your >> I will make a mention 145 >> planet senior council my lords have protected them there is an entrim order >> I'm arguing the matter why is my learn friend >> interrupting as of now my lords it was brought to the notice of the honorable >> I'm arguing this matter >> just a moment >> an expropriate exercise you can't fold for >> you can't be aggressive in everything >> no no I'm sorry Millard they wanted to interrupt therefore I told them that it is not necessary to interrupt I'll conclude my arguments then the field is theirs I'll not interrupt them >> it sometimes some submission which comes from the other side may be in your favor >> maybe not of course last time it happened >> it happened it happened you should have that uh >> yes >> it happened not kindly have a look at an R12 we had filed this petition on 14th May 2026 initially saying that this entire exercise is malified. Please don't permit any further proceedings to take place because we we know that it's going to be a fear to complete. Then on 175 145 2026 itself the government passes an order appointing the administrator which we have subsequently produced and challenged it by means of an amendment.

[00:08:00]>> Now lots may kindly have a look at an art 12 produced along with the statement of objections.

[00:08:11]Can I just pursue Lord? May I kindly see page 72 mil?

[00:08:19]>> Yes.

[00:08:23]>> Up to that uh that uh numericals he only extracts whatever is the proceedings said to have been conducted by the inquiry officer as reported by the inquiry officer.

[00:08:41]1 2 3 4.

[00:08:43]Next.

[00:08:56]for report. Next Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Foreign speech.

[00:09:41]forchech.

[00:10:25]So on it's like an experted decree.

[00:10:32]You have not come and contested the proceedings. I'm passing an expert decree. But if your lord says receive notes 27 year that's not the exercise.

[00:10:40]27A is not that wherever there are allegations made everything may come within the purview of section 25.

[00:10:46]Section 25 milords an inquiry may be conducted and the report will be sent to the society. It never contemplates the circumstance that the report is required to be sent to the government under section 25 which I read your lordships 27A. Now your lords may kindly see your lordships have dealt with in extens 27 A 1 A and 1 B >> in Shivana's case.

[00:11:09]>> Yes. Now this is 27 A1C where on a report I'll just read it from the beginning. Notwithstanding in this anything in this act where on a report I'm going to subclass C where on a report made by the register or otherwise [clears throat] on inquiry the state government considers it necessary in public interest so to do the state government may by may by order published in the official gazette appoint an administrator for the society for such period not exceeding 6 months as may be specified in the order and manage the affairs of the society. Not what is the condition precedent is if the government considers it necessary in public interest so to do.

[00:12:00]Not every allegation requires the appointment of an administrator.

[00:12:05]M if the government does not record in its order explicitly that public interest requires that the administrators to be appointed the government does not have the factual background or the foundational facts for the purpose of excise of jurisdiction under 27A1C that is the requirement next government is required to conduct an inquiry let us assume there is a report which is submitted by the register >> where is the government required to conduct >> Lord may kindly see see me lot that of was covered by the judgments of the coordinate benches where on a report made by the register or otherwise on inquiry the state government this is interpreted milots by the coordinate bench where it says that government is to conduct the inquiry >> this is again milots the reason why I am submitting this is these are not some kind of uh adversarial proceedings that some there is one complainant you make 20 allegations you make an issue a notice to the ad the the the president President does not come, I'm passing an exparty order saying that administrators should be appointed. That's not at all how it is designed. It is an expropriatory exercise. It's an extreme step. You are dislodging a democratically elected body.

[00:13:18]So the only condition which is imposed on the state which is required to be complied with is that there is a overwhelming public interest to exercise such powers.

[00:13:29]>> Now the rules can I just take your lots to the rules there?

[00:13:36]>> [cough] >> 69.

[00:14:08]Yes, >> this in in in consensus with what is specified in 25 section 25 lords >> rule 8 inquiry by the resistor where the where the resistor proposed to hold an inquiry under 25 either on his own motion or on an application he or the person authorized in his behalf under the set section to hold an inquiry shall issue notice to the society concerned.

[00:14:28]Set notice shall specify a date on which the place in which the time at which and also the matters in respect of which the inquiry will be held. Notice shall call upon the society to furnish its explanation respect of matters referred to therein before the date specified.

[00:14:41]Society shall furnish its explanation to register on or the authorized person before such date. On the date fixed for inquiry or on such other date the date or the dates on which the inquiry might be adjourned. The register or the authorized person shall give the society a oral hearing. He may also examine such persons as may be considered necessary.

[00:14:57]He may receive all relevant document. If the society fails to furnish his explanation as required under sub rule three or to attend the inquiry on the date fixed or the adjun date, the register or the authorized person may proceed with the inquiry exparte. On the completion of inquiry, register or the authorized person should record his findings and communicate the same to the society concerned.

[00:15:19]Not the reason why I read to you this is let us assume we don't participate in the proceedings. Nobody participates in the proceedings even then what is required is he has to record the findings in relation to know that is sub rule two the matters in respect of which the inquiry will be held sub rule two so he will tell these are the matters for which I'll conduct an inquiry then he has to give findings on all the matters on which he's conducting an inquiry not similar to an articles of charge >> charge yes >> not I'm I'm in a position to demonstrate not neither After the inquiry officer makes this effort, >> no charges have been framed. No >> no no charges you know charges are spelt out. But after they what happened they first gave one list of charges and they 19 19 charges were pointed out at the first instance.

[00:16:11]>> Page number >> they commence the inquiry.

[00:16:13]>> Page number where is the charge?

[00:16:15]>> Page number 24 [snorts and clears throat] >> of the petition. Yes, there are 19 points in this up to page 27.

[00:16:29]And then this is the inquiry notice on 912 2025.

[00:16:35]This is the order appointing the inquiry officer.

[00:16:40]>> Then my lords, your lords may kindly see page number 28.

[00:16:46]Make lecture B.

[00:16:59]2726 of next page number 43 23 126 Six.

[00:17:19]They add 11 more points. Same thing.

[00:17:38]43 11 more charges.

[00:17:41]>> Yes. Now if you're not to see me the inquiry officers report. Sorry.

[00:17:46]>> Where is the addition? Okay. Next page >> a report in the inquiry officers report which is at page 31.

[00:17:52]>> What is 4647?

[00:17:55]>> 4647 is again the same list.

[00:17:58]>> Uh that is different >> 19. It is it's it is actually what happens is they have included along with this. This has come as a continuation.

[00:18:06]This is the same 19 which was there in the first notice.

[00:18:11]The same 19 which was in the first notice.

[00:18:14]>> What happened to the other four? Now after this me if your lot is to see page number 31 inquiry officer's report at page number 32 he extracts up to serial number 19 at p up to page 34.

[00:18:38]Then from page 35 he adds this 11 more charges at page 35.

[00:18:46]>> Mhm.

[00:18:49]>> Yes.

[00:18:50]>> After that page 37. Page 37 I have read it to your lots.

[00:18:54]>> Mhm.

[00:18:57]>> So all these things which you have read it out >> this time. Yes.

[00:19:00]>> Yes. M now other than this there is no individual findings given in respect of each one of the charges what materials is available how he has considered how primmaacia he finds that there is something which is on the base of which I have to be held guilty >> yes of course then what happened the administrator takes charge on that same day though he was not an administrator because it was not gazited on that day.

[00:19:32]To our information, they are yet to come out with that information. We could not get that information. But as on that day, there was no guessiting. When the matter comes before dishonorable court, it came before a vacation bench. Then the learned single judge directed that you get the instructions whether it is the next state of hearing that is recorded in the order sheet which your lordships have already seen. The administrator comes and opposes the grant of an in order by engaging the service of a council.

[00:20:05]then your lot is specifically directed.

[00:20:08]Of course, don't uh Yes.

[00:20:36]Therefore, Millard, even if I have no difficulty, Milots, we had got those documents on the first hearing date only to show that we had this bundles of documents which we wanted to hand it over to the inquiry officer which he did not receive.

[00:20:48]>> Even even before the uh state, they never issued an inquiry notice. They said that this is the this is not an inquiry notice. They say that you will have to come and give a response whether or not it is not an inquiry notice.

[00:21:01]Inquiry is required to be conducted again to find out whether or not the charges are there in a manner that it attracts the public interest for invoking the jurisdiction under section 27 A1C.

[00:21:12]>> Yes, >> that's my submission.

[00:21:14]>> Yes ma'am.

[00:21:15]>> Can I seek your excuse? I just >> may [clears throat] I reply day after tomorrow.

[00:21:25]I'm reading what complaint after the complaint expend everything what is complaint let the addition general is appearing >> you are only a complainant tomorrow senior council for the petitioner for the submissions of learned additional advocate general relist on 24th at 2:30 p.m.

[00:22:08]>> Great.

[00:22:08]>> Entry mod earlier granted is extend to next.

[00:22:12]>> Grateful.

[00:22:13]>> Okay, sir.

[00:22:16]>> See the number seven.

[00:22:22]impleing applicant to the person.

[00:22:25]I have also filed a >> we are impleading application. We thought we had completed all those things last time. Still some things are left. You have filed it subsequently.

[00:22:34]>> We have filed our objections to the including applications.

[00:22:38]>> You are opposing it.

[00:22:47]In number seven, >> IA2 of 26. BNJA BJA submit that he does not press IIA2 of 26. Hence, IIA2 of 26 is dismissed as not pressed.

[00:23:06]BJ has filed a memo.

[00:23:13]No objection.

[00:23:39]One Mr. Mohammed Shafi Arshad had filed an application two of 26.

[00:23:45]>> A memo has been filed on his behalf today which reads as signed by the impleing applicant and council for the implement which reads as under. Accepting the said memo, the impleading application is dismissed as withdrawn in IA number two of 26 is dismissed as withdrawn.

[00:24:08]>> Please madam I have filed I number three and four to >> you have filed I three and four >> and you have filed IA 6 and seven and you have filed objection to both the set of applications. Yes Mr. Who will start?

[00:24:22]Three and four I have to start >> or six and seven three and four seniorities in terms of number between both of you whoever starts which one I have to only say two things first >> in the arguments on the impleading application because he is posing it so who wants to start >> there's one I one of 26 >> I'm I one of 26 >> one of 26 then you have the seniority one of 26 [laughter] >> now seniorities Whoever is first get this correct sir in this matter is what had happened is me sir I there was an arbitration award which was passed by a majority tribunal I got the arbitration I appear for the proposed respondent number six and seven >> any conflict that we have with this parties >> I have no idea I don't think So >> we are not sure but >> it's a matter of Richmond road >> that yes that we don't have any this >> that developers and I have I'll have to ask the clients otherwise have we appeared for them ever I don't know I'm not sure I remember but there's some doubt then my lot may take it up next week in the meantime and even otherwise according according to me the petition has become influctuous because very well very well I'll just keep it that >> may I make one request which are late Monday or Tuesday because our problem is on the time that's true >> we list on 28th verify that and >> I'll send List [clears throat] two at 2:30 list please. Please.

[00:26:29]>> Yes.

[00:26:31][clears throat] >> I have two judgment to me. The place before your lordship. Two judgments. You want to place two more? Yes. Me. Samir Singh has been followed by constitution bench. The supreme court. Just one submission. Uh and a will be arguing. There's one difficulty. The KPC has something to say in this matter. Uh I had some uh personal difficulty. Me lords. I I may be permitted to reply on tomorrow or Friday. Me.

[00:26:56]>> Yeah. How long? They will take some time. Not discipline authority, not controlling authority, not appointing authority. I was leaving for Kali.

[00:27:04]>> That petition had that was a difficult.

[00:27:07]>> What time is your flight?

[00:27:08]>> 6:00. It got postponed to 7:10. I have to leave by 4:45. That was a so I will reply. They will take some time.

[00:27:16]>> I will appear on VC tomorrow. And >> please tomorrow I can appear on VC.

[00:27:20]>> VC please.

[00:27:22]>> We'll have it tomorrow after >> please. Great.

[00:27:25]Yes.

[00:27:27]Or if it could be Friday mealots uh it would be >> you want to be a personal >> please it's for the commission had something to say please grateful >> I'll take minutes grateful >> yes please two judgments >> yes which one Very [snorts] good.

[00:28:10]>> Article 1638.

[00:28:26]153.

[00:28:28]>> Yes.

[00:28:36][clears throat] is concerned. This court has to pass an order only on this personal satisfaction.

[00:28:50]This court while examining the case of the employee under 11.

[00:29:02]The same issue was placed before the position came to the court in case that constitution required the satisfaction of the president or the governor for the exercise of any power or function. As for example under article 2131 close to 317 3521 B56 B60 the satisfaction required by the constitution was not personal satisfaction of the president or the governor but it is the satisfaction of the president or the governor in the constitutional sense under the cabinet system of the government. It is therefore clear that even though the governor may authorize to exercise some functions under the Unless the government has been expressly authorized by all under constitutional procedure to discharge the functions concerning his own discretion.

[00:30:14]We are therefore considered doing that and so far as exercise limited to situations expressly provides that the governor should act in his own governor and exercise functions in his own discretion in situations where the interpretation of the constitution could not be pursued otherwise we therefore hereby reject the contentions advance on on behalf of the respondent that the governor has the freedom to determine when in the situation he should take a decision his own without the aid and advice of the chief minister and responsibility accordingly also turn down the contention that whenever the governor in discharge of it functions takes a decision in his own discretion the same would be final and binding and beyond the we of the view that the final express would apply to the functions by the governor as permissible within the framework of the article 16 and additionally under so that is where the exercise of such power on a run contrary to constitution or contary conclusions. Therefore summarize point one. Firstly the measure of power of the governor is limited to the article 163.

[00:32:03]Secondly, the article 163 of the governor extends the situation where the constitutional expressly request from the legitimate interpretation of the provision concerned. The same cannot be considered otherwise in situations where the court has declared that the governor should exercise the particular function in his own hand without any aid or advice because of the impermissibility of their alternative by reason of interest of the exercise of discretion 16 final [clears throat] scope of the initial review cannot be accepted because we have rejected The submission advance respondents that the scope and the extent of decision vested in the governor has to be assertained from article 162 163 clause 2 on the basis of the basis where scams and secondary discretion exercised beyond the governance jurisdiction authority would certainly be subjected to 166 B and C in a situation where 165.

[00:33:34]>> Yes.

[00:33:37]166 in view of the consideration situation where governor has reason to believe that the chief minister and his council of ministers have lost the confidence of the house. It is open for the governor to require the chief minister and his council of minister to do their majority in the house by a protest only in a situation where the government is power [laughter] on holding of such a floor seem to have lost the confidence of the majority. It will be open for the governor to exercise the powers vested with him under article 171 at his own and without any aent advice. This is the situation where governor can act without the advice. But now 169 article 161 page number Page 169.

[00:34:49]will be addressed to the legislature on the aid and advice of the council of ministers.

[00:34:54]the chief minister as the message of the governor was therefore beyond the constitutional auth.

[00:35:22]Yes.

[00:35:27]>> In our final analysis, we are satisfied that hands of the governor in functioning of the state legislation not expressly assigned to him. However, one of would be extraneous and without any constitutional sanction. A challenge to an action beyond the authority of the governor would fall within the scope of the judicial review and would have to be set aside maybe the orders of the government but if it is beyond the scope of the jurisdiction it has to be set aside that's what 37 this is page 383 >> 383 >> 383 >> 387 page 249 >> 387 or 383 >> 249 page number >> huh >> 387 >> 387 >> that's it >> yes >> this clearly has reference to article 163 of Constitution of India and must be understood as meaning of claiming the rules under article 1663 of the constitution. It's not discussion of the governor but an executive exercise undertaken by the council of ministers.

[00:36:53]Article 167 of the constitution relates to the duty of the chief minister of a state to communicate the decision of the council of ministers to the governor and furnish information to the governor.

[00:37:05]Chapter 2 and of the constitution is therefore quite compact and delates the relations between the executive and governance of the states.

[00:37:19]Therefore some shing has been followed and appreciated in this constitution management but that will be final authority as apart from whenever exercises jurisiction beyond or without the advice it has to be set as a these two judgments have been followed in Mangalash.

[00:37:43]Therefore advice is compulsory and apart from post facto.

[00:38:03]>> Yes.

[00:38:05]>> 264.

[00:38:07]We have extracted the relevant port.

[00:38:11]Let us see what it is. 264.

[00:38:20]>> Yes.

[00:38:26]>> You do not think that the absence of the expression prior approval in the rule would have any impact. So far as the present case is concerned as the same as have the same rules have been unda and it has been held that the cash or memorandum not having approval of the disciplinary authority would be nonest in the eye of law. Same interpretation have been given to the similar rule all services 1969 while another coordinate page of this code in the state of Tamil Nad. Now the question arises and arises as to whether concluding proceedings and the pending proceedings against the opponent is capable of giving interpretation to this. The high court's reasoning referring to the notes on which the approval for initiation of the proceedings was granted is that the disciplinary authority had taken into consideration the specific charges. The ratio of the judgment in Ashokumar and Hindustan in our opinion do not apply in the facts of the present case we hold.

[00:39:31]So because these authorities primarily deal with the question as to whether the legal requirement of granting approval to ex fact expos factor approval particularly in case where the statuto instrument does not specify taking prior or previous approval. It is the fact that the rules which we are concerned there is no stipulation of taking prior approval. But since there is this very rule has been construed by the ordinance to the fact that the approval of the disciplinary authority should be there before issuing the charge memorandum.

[00:40:09]The principles of law enunciated in the 42 cases that the Kumaras and Hindustan would not aid the respondent. The distinction between The buyer approval and the approvals increase does not have much impact so far as the statutes status of subject number is concerned.

[00:40:30]The next question we shall address is to whether there would be any difference in the position of law. This case with the authority without disciplinary authority was held to be honest concluded proceedings. High Court has referred to the variance of the expression nonest used in two legal cases in judgment under the appeals. In the context of all these ter meaning of some something to be not existence because of some legal in the process of creation of subject instrument. It goes beyond a remediable irregularity. That is how the coordinate bench has construed the impact of having approval not having approval of the authority issuing the in the event the legal instrument is deemed to be not in existence because of certain fundamental existence cannot exist and acts in pursuance of such instrumenting the same to be valid in fact that The initation of the proceedings is approval of the authority would not maintain this obligation on the part of the employer in complying with the requirements of subsection of rule 14 of the CSCA 1965. We have quoted the two relevant subasses available in this.

[00:42:08]Contemplate the independent approval of discipline authority at both stages for any of the inquiry and also drawing drawing for the cost of the draw up for the charge memorandum. In the event of requirement of subsection 2 is complied with not having the approval of the time of issue of charge memorandum subsection three the fundamentally effective and not capable of being validated retrospectively but is nonexistent in the eye of law cannot be revived retrospectively life cannot be born in our opinion the approval of The approval for initiating disciplinary proceedings and approval for approval to a memorandum are two acts each requiring independent application of the part of the default at the time of authority The sale would not get cured by the fact that such was there at the initial stage now 70 allegations that may be serious.

[00:43:38]We are of conscious fact that the allegations against the opponent are serious in nature and ought not be scuttled on purely technical ground. But the criminal in the judgment was set aside to issue a fresh memorandum of charges under rule 14 of PCS rules 1965 as per the rules later on if the matter so advised. Thus the department's power to pursue the matter have been resolved and not foreclosed.

[00:44:10]But so far as the charges even assuming it is grave but the procedure the rules and the constitution should be followed 26932.

[00:44:27]This is for the purpose of saying 31 8279.

[00:44:37]Two judgments to say that if law says something to be done in a particular manner, the same has to be done in that manner only. There cannot be settled and again 31.

[00:44:54]>> Yes. And also one more treatment >> on the same all these propositions and points for consideration records of yes set aside The order of the excellency suspending this >> please take article 166.

[00:45:43]>> Yes.

[00:46:00]1636 is what they were saying. Please come to 163.

[00:46:06]There shall be a council of ministers with the chief minister at the head to aid and advise the governor in exercise of his functions except in so far as he is by or under this constitution required function exercise his functions or any of them in his own in his discretion.

[00:46:24]If any question arise whether any matter is or is not a matter in respect to which the governor is by or under this constitution required to act in his discretion decision of the governor in this discretion in his discretion shall be final. Validity of anything done by the governor shall not be called in question on the ground that he ought or ought not to have acted in his own discretion. The question whether any and if so what advice was tendered by the ministers to the governor shall not be enquired into in any court. This is my lord the provision of the article of an article of the constitution.

[00:46:58]>> Yes. What I'm submitting before your lordship is on the last occasion lord if my lord sees I lord am required to act my lord whether in my own capacity or meot on the bas of the aid and advice my learned friend me pointed out one judgment pertaining to me the nabya's case where their lordships have held that I have to act governor has to act in the in the taking the ad council of ministers >> yes >> even there if your lordship sees It's something me far more drastic.

[00:47:32]>> If my lord sees that was a case me where legislature was to be me progent all that kind of a thing not me where somebody me has to be dismissed or me suspended this is one aspect the judgment there me has to be me construed in the factual back background there his first submission of mine >> what would have to be established is whether This action which has been taken correct as head of head to to aid and advise the governor in the exile function except in so far as he is by or under this constitution required to excise his function or any of them in his discretion.

[00:48:13]>> Correct. If this action comes under the exception then there's no aid and advice.

[00:48:18]>> That's right.

[00:48:19]>> Only thing is what I am relying upon is >> not coming under that because 317 those words >> clause two clause two of article 163 >> but Shamshir Singh and Nam I know that said I I I more than that I don't want to say.

[00:48:36]>> Yes. Now the second issue is >> what [clears throat] has happened is subsequently on the last occasion the state government produced me the with the memo the documents there has been a ratification of me the action of the governor >> there's no ratification >> I'll tell I'll tell you ratification is permissible I'll point out >> yes >> please come to mess have that melody Day before yesterday or yesterday they filed >> what?

[00:49:10]>> Memo memo filed by the state.

[00:49:13]>> Yes ma'am.

[00:49:15]>> Yes. Yes. Correct.

[00:49:34]Mhm.

[00:49:44]>> Yes.

[00:49:46]>> If your Lord has come to page one.

[00:49:51]>> Yes. On 167.

[00:49:54]This is mad the letter sent by me the chief secretary >> to the secretary to the governor with reference to the order dated 107 2026 to the honorable governor placing Shri so and so chairman of the Karnataka public service commission under suspension until further orders with the view in view of the allegations of misconduct and misbehavior under spirit of article 317 to the constitution of India pending inquiry by the honorable president of India India ordering that the next senior most member of the commission shall act as a chairman of the Karnataka public service commission until further orders. State government concurs with the order passed by the honorable governor. Same may kindly be brought to the notice of the honorable governor.

[00:50:38]This is one. Now please turn the next page. Cabinet note. Subsequently Lord they have held a cabinet.

[00:50:45]>> The note lord is >> subject.

[00:50:52]>> Please come. Yes ma'am. Please come to page six.

[00:50:56]This is a cabinet note which was placed in before the cabinet.

[00:50:59]>> Yes.

[00:51:03]Paris 7 or paragraph 7 at page six. H under rule 21B of the Karnataka government transaction business rules of 1977. Following matters are submitted for the perusal and concurrence by order number so and so dated 107 2026.

[00:51:21]Honorable governor has under article 3172 of the constitution of India placed she so and so chairman of the Karnataka public service commission under suspension with immediate effect pending further orders from the honorable president of India. The honorable governor has also directed next senior most member of the commission shall discharge the function of the chairman until further orders. This has been approved. Please come to the next page.

[00:51:43]>> This is rule 21B 21 of the melod transaction of business rules.

[00:51:50]What does that say?

[00:51:57]I can give the iPad itself.

[00:52:01]Coffee is coming in a minute. In fact, I anticipated that. I just give it in a minute.

[00:52:10]21.

[00:52:48]So this is being brought before the chief minister.

[00:52:51]>> Correct.

[00:52:51]>> Or the minister in charge of the department.

[00:52:53]>> Correct. And then it is placed before the cabinet.

[00:52:55]>> Contination is the chief minister is also the minister of DPI.

[00:52:59]>> Correct. Minister as it is placed before the cabinet.

[00:53:06]Cabinet ratifies it.

[00:53:08]The full cabinet ratifies it.

[00:53:13]This is shall not be placed.

[00:53:20]This is a procedure. This is only this is a procedure for laying down a decision. What and all can come to the cabinet. Mot for example mal >> certain things may not need need not come before the cabinet. This will not request that it should be completely the ring minister has to place it to the cabinet.

[00:53:38]>> That is fine. But where's the question of post facto?

[00:53:42]>> That's a legal position.

[00:53:43]>> That's that's a legal question. I I'll answer that.

[00:53:45]>> Yes, please. If your Lord sees me today, it is approved right >> whether post facto is permissible or not. I will not give you a lot to authorities for my lord's consideration.

[00:53:56]>> Yes.

[00:53:58]which has not been considered me in the judgments which my learned friend has relied upon larger ben judgment of the three judge benchra first page one my lots get that at page one division judge. Yes. Two judges.

[00:54:34]Three judgments.

[00:54:58]26 if your lot has come to only the 16 paris inhum please come to Oriental Insurance please come to page 42 first.

[00:55:27]Sorry my 4234cc 239.

[00:55:32]Yes 239.

[00:55:36]Yes please.

[00:55:43]Three judge bench. Three judge bench whether meal the question that arose for consideration is whether meot and order earlier view was two judges have all held me that illegal orders me cannot be ratified. This three judge bench holds that even illegal orders can be me ratified.

[00:56:06]Please come to me paragraph page meal 63 paragraph 42.

[00:56:19]>> Yes.

[00:56:24]In any view of the matter even in case where the initial action is illegal same same can be ratified by a body competent. Therefore this aspect of the matter has not been considered by the high court at all. In Perishuri Prasad Gupta versus Union of India this court held that even if it be assumed that the telegram and the letter terminating the services appellent by the chairman was in person an invalid resolution by the board of directors passed on 1612 1953 to terminate his services. It would not follow that the action of the chairman could not be ratified in a regularly convened meeting by the board of directors. The point is that even assuming that the chairman was not legally authorized to terminate the services appalent, he was acting on behalf of the company in doing so because he perpetuated to act in pursuance to the invalid resolution.

[00:57:07]Therefore, it was open to the regularly constituted meeting of the board of directors to ratify that action though unauthorized was done on behalf of the company.

[00:57:17]Ratification would always relate back to the date of the act ratified and so it must be held that the services of the appellent were validly Paragraph 42 me which is what you read.

[00:57:51]>> That's right. My submission to your lordships is an action me which is ratified relates back to me the date in fact even in bundur raw swami's case this matter came up for consideration. Yes, it is getting up on Friday. I'll give the full judgment urgently.

[00:58:27]Sorry, my apologies.

[00:58:32]Please come to me. Paragraph 114 115 at page 182 in this matter this again is a three judge bench.

[00:58:51]Yes, all these three judgments has not been looked into at all in those judgment which the two judgments which my learn on one judgment which my learn gave in this case the matter relating to sanction under section 183 of the BD act was placed before the chief minister who also happened to be the minister in charge on 22 2004 he granted >> approval is a constitutional judgement five nam is constitution >> no raia does not relate to ratification >> ratification we are only concerned with the ratification the first one >> I als [clears throat] >> I didn't want to I just submitted that is a little difficult I know that >> that's why I did not even press me too much but please have a look at this 114 in this case the matter relating to sanction under 183 of the BD act was placed before the chief minister who happened to be the chief minister in charge on 22 2004 he granted approval subject to ratification by the cabinet in vodi subsequent ratification by the cabinet there is nothing irregular in the procedure adopted. Delay in ratification on account of the resolution of the house. The contention that sanction is void is untenable as noticed above. Rule 12 requires the matter to be ordinarily considered at the meeting of the cabinet. This itself should would show that there can be exception circumstance where it will not be possible to place it before the cabinet. The approval granted by the chief minister subject to ratification of the cabinet was treated by the urban development department as approval for sanction under section 183 and a government order was made on 212 2004 in the name of the governor granting sanction under so state government also issued a final declaration of section 191 of the media act. It is thus evident that the state government proceeded on the basis the order of approval of the chief minister for sanction was sufficient to grant of sanction even if it be assumed that such approval was irregular as it was made subject to ratification as a ratification was subsequently made the challenge for want of proper approval of the cabinet for sanction cannot be exeutely may not apply 166 6 1633 whether lord the court can go into this aspect that page 66 I don't want to me I'm just submitting it leaving it at that I don't want to say anything more paragraph 8 of this judgment >> with then it is unable to >> look at let's look at raia for all that raia says is he has to act in aid and advisory with the head and advice of the governor I mean cabinet.

[01:01:28]>> Yes.

[01:01:29]>> If it is subsequently not ratified it relates back to the date of the act itself. ratification was not dealt with right >> you know >> whether >> no it was not a subject matter before at all >> any discretion exile beyond the governor's jurisdiction authority would certainly be subject to judicial review >> naturally >> judicial review yes >> I don't want to say though if you lot to look at 1633 >> judicial reviews me >> is left to the discretion his decision is final but that >> 1632 also says that same thing but I do not want to lord venture into that at all because today sometimes what we do is if there is a ratification therefore lord I would say that I will rely upon that I don't want to venture into anything else because either 1633 this honorable court has held me that it can't be gone into looked into all that but I don't want to go into that aspect I leave it at that but the fact is ratification me relates back to me the date of the act itself And therefore the act of the governor in keeping under suspension is valid. And please also bear in mind two things in this case there was urgency cabinet meeting takes time all the ministers me must be available. Here was there was a public fo here was a person who was the the constitutional authority. Yes >> chairperson mad of the KPSC is a constitutional authority. He is required to me to be above above board.

[01:03:07]He me does something which is I can I don't want to say strong words which is not proper which is wholly illegal.

[01:03:15]>> The allegation is against the daughter not against him.

[01:03:18]>> Please me >> the daughter has given a false certificate.

[01:03:22]>> No he also lord says something. I'll tell you a lot he gives his uh this thing is it's not as if it is placed before me the KPSC he knows about it I can understand if he's ignorant at that time said something I can understand he gives it it's not as if he doesn't know he knows about it and yet proceeds mad so brazenly that's why I pointed out on the first day the judgment of the Supreme Court mad 2017 where charge was similar to this Dr. Lord applied and he did not recuse. Here he me is aware of it and therefore my lord there's some urgency and therefore lord I kept him under suspension subject to ratification it is not necessary that I should say it is subject to ratification if it is ratified it validates the whole thing.

[01:04:12]This is all that I want to say. If the your submission is the council of ministers had disagree and if then >> then the order would be >> correct correct correct absolutely absolutely this is all that I have to say Mr. How long will you take? You got 4 minutes.

[01:04:31]>> Then I'll do it on next day. 5:15 meeting at 5:30 will be sitting till 6.

[01:04:39]Heard further arguments further arguments of Mr. Arun Shan senior council for the petitioner and senior council for respond for arguments of the other respondents relist on 24th at 2:30 p.m.

[01:04:55]>> I may have something to say about this hidden submissions the written submission filed by the council for the petitioner as also memo of citation memo of list of authorities Roman two Roman two is taken on record.

[01:05:13]Yes.

[01:05:18]>> 55 55 memo withdraw withdrawn.

[01:05:22]>> All in orders will be extended.

[01:05:36]>> Whatever is reaching is what we are able to take. We'll take it up. Now 45 it did not reach unfortunately today. You want a date? Convenient date. We'll give you a convenient date. Hopefully it'll reach that date. What date do you want?

[01:05:51]>> We don't know anything.

[01:05:54]Every day is convenient for matter which reaches.

[01:06:00]We won't change the status of the >> which date you're coming from outside then >> 31st 2 230 list >> serial number 63 and 64 my lords by suppressing earlier dismissal of pitch me these pions are filed urgency my lords consumer award is there my lords now consumer award now my lord I'm unable to Arrest warrant officer 63 64 >> 14th August 14th August List three.

[01:06:51]List one. 14th August.

[01:07:28]45.

[01:07:45]Details.

[01:07:57]70 80th 17th [clears throat] 14th 17th August serial number 17 >> 17th August 14th 57 572 24th 24th party.

[01:08:51]Third list serial number July Friday 24th.

[01:09:18]Passover 12.

[01:09:37]Sorry.

[01:09:41]Third >> list 14th August 172 17 Yu sir.

[01:10:00]6364 63 64 17th August 14th August 14th 42th August 47 no 14th August 18th August on the connection.

[01:11:07]172 number 72 list madam list one ser number 72 14th difficulty 17th to 18th August okay thank you thank you ma'am officer madam serial number 87 in list one I'll be your voice. Madam sir, sir.

[01:11:38]Madam list one. Seal number 85. Madam >> 85 14th August.

[01:11:44]>> H done.

[01:11:46]>> Madam 87.

[01:11:48]>> Madam list one. Serial number 83.

[01:11:51]>> No. I wanted to be after madam.

[01:12:05]Yeah.

[01:12:19]Yeah.

[01:12:23]Entry number seven 175 14th August Check mark.

[01:12:56]These three 14th August 23 list 23 23 number 23 Not it. Not it.

[01:14:24]14th August.

[01:14:39]Anywhere.

[01:14:41]Yeah.

[01:15:11]14th Court 14th August. Madam list one serial number 87 87 14th August 18th 87 14th August 14th previous okay madam serial number 83 madam 83 33 14th August.

[01:15:52]>> 14th August madam. Okay. Thank you madam.

[01:15:55]>> Okay.

[01:16:37]So 14th August daily.

[01:16:51]Hi.

[01:16:53]Hi. Hi.

[01:17:07]See in the head.