This critique effectively exposes the fragility of faith built on emotional performance, offering a compelling argument for intellectual rigor over modern evangelical melodrama. It serves as a necessary warning that superficial spiritual experiences often pave the way for deconversion.
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Reviewing Ruslan KD discussion atheist!Added:
We're live.
>> Hello. Hello. Hello.
We'll just do we'll do a we'll do a sub goal. Why not? Let's Yeah, we'll just do two hours. Um start.
All right, there we go. Hope you guys are doing well. We're doing nothing nothing crazy. Nothing crazy. We're letting Alex wind down um while I get this set up.
Buffer, how you doing, brother? As always, copy.
We're going to do this.
So, today we're going to be looking at uh we're going to be looking at Rouselon's recent thing that he just released. Um, which is really interesting. Uh, believe it or not. Um, it's the atheist guy who has done a bunch of reviews of many, many, many different churches. And, um, I like the guy, but he's kind of a mixed bag when it comes to certain things and certain ideas. Um, obviously I'm not here to try and I'm not trying to convert you. Like, don't convert me. The thing is though, the the one thing that I don't like about him is that he's like, "You're not going to convince me.
Don't try and convert me. But that's what that's what we do. That's what Christians do. You know what I mean? So, we're gonna see what he if we're gonna see if he has anything interesting to say. Um I'm not planning on going super late today, guys. So, just like Alex, I got other things that I got to do. I got clients I got to call. Um I got to make money. Got to make money. So, this is uh this is just me calling in. I just wanted to call in with Alex because Alex is a good sport. He's a good guy. um could tell he was a little tired, so I didn't want to uh suck up all the oxygen there and like keep it going and going and going. So, um yeah, that's what we're going to do. Got to go check this out real quick.
See if we got anything going on here.
Okay.
Um, don't state the obvious.
Uh, just uh just a little mix in the frenza. Your soda like on them on Sunday always brightens my brightens my day. Thank you. I appreciate you guys. Uh, thank you, Alex, for sending over the viewers. Appreciate it. Um, we're going to be going over this. The room went silent when he described leaving Jesus.
We're going to we're going to listen to it analysis uh do a little bit of analysis of this guy. um maybe some of the arguments he makes kind of see how um Rouselon responds and this pastor I have no idea who this pastor is. It's from the bless God s Summit. Um he's like join the wait list for the next one. Um so we're going to see that. Uh like the stream you beg. That's so true. Um I don't have my StreamYard up so I don't have um any of the um the voice stuff that I'm worked and working on. I do have some cool like uh call-in and voice stuff that I've been working on. Um I do have the emojis almost ready too, guys.
Believe it or not, I actually have had time to do that now that I'm recovered from surgery and everything else. I've actually had time to do that. So, I appreciate you guys. I appreciate all the prayers and all the support that you guys have shown me over the time. Um been getting a lot of love recently and I really appreciate that. I know I've been out of commission for like two or three weeks because of my jaw surgeries.
Um, that's all pretty much done. Um, I think I have one more checkup I have to do just to make sure that there's nothing going on, like there's like no infection or anything like that, but I have like one more checkup I got to do.
Um, so after that, I'm good to go. So, um, I really appreciate you guys. Um, I know it's late for some of you guys as well, so that's also appreciated. So, um, that being said, we're going to go straight into this. Um, if we do hit this uh the the goal today, the the the donation goal today, um, I'll do a a portion of the stream where people can call in um, on X. Um, since I didn't have that, I got that jaw surgery. Yeah, I'm looks maxing, guys. Is it working? Is it working? Is it working? I won't believe the emotes are here until I'm spanned with them in chat. Been four months of asking. I know. I know. I just like I've had so much stuff going on, guys.
Uh, and that's the biggest problem. So, uh, Russell needs those seven figures.
Got to get those seven figures. I'm going to be providing him one more view.
So, that's at least uh like a scent.
He's going to get at least a scent from me. So, uh, but we're going to dislike right away. Um, so there we go.
>> The most painful thing you've been through.
>> Yeah.
>> What made it so painful? I have never loved anyone as much as I loved Jesus.
And >> Oh, really? I've never loved someone as much as I love Jesus. Yet, I'm an atheist. I really hate it when atheists do that. Um, it's very annoying. Um, now don't get me wrong, again, I have praised this guy's orthodox reviews.
Um, I just like it out of principle.
He's already got good algorithms, dude.
His his algorithms are way better than mine. So, my mine is not going to do that. But, it's important to respect that. Um, now again, I really liked his reviews of the Orthodox Church. I felt he understood in essence what makes orthodoxy so attractive more than almost anybody.
That doesn't mean that I'm not going to not critique him, right? I am going to critique him.
Uh Jasper said, "This guy help uh made a video about my church, the Orthodox Review of All Saints Rail. I'm sure it really exploded your guys' growth even more than you guys were already growing.
I'm sure that that has been absolutely insane to deal with. I totally uh grant that." And he like again he was a good sport. I felt like he really understood the essence of what made Orthodoxy so special. That doesn't mean I'm not going to uh rake him over the coals. Tortoises uh puffer fish sends. Thank you guys for the two $5 is much appreciated. Um >> losing.
>> And yes, by the way, I did already harvest today. I got a lot of clover today and a lot of dandelion leaves for the tortoises. So all praise the tortoises. We got tortoise food. So, I like to go on my walks and get tortoise foods. That's actually one of the things that I do, guys. Um, if you're not familiar with my stream, I go on walks, just talk about Korea, talk about different things that come to my mind, and I harvest things. I have my little harvesting scissors now, too. I even have little harvesting scissors. And thank you for the membership. Send five bucks the longer the stream. Yo, Cheapos. Uh, yeah, you guys get the longer stream if uh if you do that. Uh, it's not going to be super long. We're going to review this and then once this is done being reviewed, I'm going to end it. But if we do meet that goal, um, I'm going to do a call-in portion on X. So, type R for Rhythm Church inevitably sweeping the country with sick beats and dance moves. So true. So true. Um, I I can't legally donate. Sorry, guys. No problem, Blake. There's no problem.
There's no pressure. I'm monetizing you.
So true. Um, got to make those seven figures, guys. I wish I could, guys. I wish I could make that much on YouTube because then I wouldn't have to do all my other work that I do um which is it.
If those of for those of you who don't know, I'm in the IT field. I have an orthodox uh business that I do an IT business. I help other businesses with their IT work, cyber security, website development, uh digital marketing. Um you can see that in the description below. You can get to my website. Uh it is Monarch Cyber Solutions. Monarch as in Monarchy. Um, so if you guys want to check those out, if you know anybody that could use our services, it's much helped get that Orthodox nepotism. Let's get into it.
>> Was sometimes I'll introduce myself to a believer and I'll say, "Oh yeah, I'm an atheist. I'm an ex-Christian." And you can see like the terror in their eyes.
>> What were the first seeds that started the process of deconversion for you?
>> Like my my beliefs are pretty straightforward and goes black. I don't want people to explore religious communities or other ideas through their Tik Tok algorithm. I want them to go and shake somebody's hand and look them in the eye and hear their story. And she once told me, "Jared, I want you to be in heaven more than I want to be by myself. Would you trade your spot in heaven for somebody else?" I I'm not going to grab that. You're not going to get that.
>> You don't get any bonus points for saying, "Hey, we're doing better than our Muslim country neighbors." That's data. I'm sorry. We I'm not going to back down on that.
>> Hey, two quick things before we jump into this conversation. This is from our 226 Bless God Summit uh soldout event, and we are going to do a Bless God Summit in the spring of 2027. If you want to be the first on the waiting list to get tickets before anyone else does, again, last one sold out. Go to blessgodsummit.com. Get on the waiting list immediately so you don't miss it.
Uh, it's going to be awesome. It'll be sometime after Easter in 2020.
>> By the way, thanks Marilyn for the $5.
This is not for idolizing words. Thank you. I appreciate that. He's monetizing us with that shocking intro. Um, yeah.
Listen guys, I do want to say something.
I don't blame Rouselon for like being active and monetizing things. Like I don't think that's wrong. Um like I I genuinely don't think so. Uh but that said, like he can't be a hypocrite, right? Um he because he he was criticizing Jay for like clout chasing and all this other stuff, you know. I need I might I might get another drink here. Uh yeah, you know, these are those are things that are really really important. Um the atheist getting preachy to the crowd at times was so cringe. You're an atheist. You're preaching is basically worthless, Marco.
And that's exactly why I'm going to criticize him here. I'm not going to be nice to this guy just because he was very, very nice about the Orthodox Church. Uh someone said $5 Telepuffer. I forgive him for muting me that one time.
Coolest of dudes. So true. Cool dude.
Um, uh, like 600 lb man going, "When I was the last time, uh, uh, when was the last time you ate a salad?" Yeah, I know. It just screams hypocrisy. Um, it just screams like like moralizing and arandizing. Um, which, you know, again, I liked his analysis of the churches, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to call him out for his his bad argumentation, his bad kind of like prospects and things like that. Um, that being said, uh, uh, somebody said something that I can't that I that I wanted to, um, Oh, yeah. So, we will do a callin if we reach the goal, guys. I did a very like low tier goal, so but I appreciate that. I was going to review Rachel's stream, but since Alex already did it and said everything that I would have said, I didn't feel like there was any need for me to do it at that point. So, we're going to review this because I feel like this could be useful. So, >> also got to send a big shout out to Logos Bible Software. They are our sponsor for the event. Logos, if you guys >> guys, when do I get sponsorships like this? I need Logos. Logo software. Where do I get that? Come on.
>> Didn't know is an amazing Bible software. It gets you the Greek, the Hebrew, the different translations. And they have this brand new study assistant tool that allows you to basically ask it anything, but instead of it just going on the internet for random information and Reddit forms like chat GPT or other chatbots, this is only connected to their scholarly books. And so this is available for all you guys for six.
>> By the way, this is the AI product I'm working on is kind of in this similar vein, but it's uh a little bit more specialized. Um the AI product I'm working on, it's going to be big, guys.
It's going to be big. It's going to be huge. Uh just got to get the funding for the prototype. But definitely definitely like the fact that that is the case for that. But again, I'm I even then I'm not a huge fan of like let's train our AI on this. It's like that's it's still AI though.
>> 60 days for free and then after that it is only 10 or 15 20 bucks a month which is actually incredible cuz logo >> which one is it?
Is it 10 15 or 20? back in the day really was only for like clarity and used to cost thousands of dollars. Now it's $15 a month. Okay, that's the tier I'm on.
>> Oh, it's a tier. Okay, you didn't make that clear originally.
>> You can check that out. Link in the description. Start your free 60-day trial of Logos. I also have my entire Bible in two-year plan on Logos. The link for that is in the description. So, some people struggle with reading the Bible. We put it together 5 days a week uh through the entire Bible in two years. Awesome way to >> two years to read the whole Bible. my my brother in Christ. Um, it doesn't take that long to read the Bible. I I I know this is shocking. When I was in when I was still a Protestant, uh, when I was still a Protestant, I mean, I think I read the Bible, you know, easily, you can read, you can read it easily in a month.
It's not that big of a book. I know some people are really slow readers. I'm a fast reader. So even like two or three months, you should even someone who's um uh even somebody who's slow at reading, you can read the whole Bible in like two to three months.
Uh um the Bible's boring. Some people have trouble with motivation. I agree with that. I understand that. Um now, if you're going to do like an indepth study and you're going to really break it down, then sure, it can take a little bit longer. But really, it doesn't take that long to read the Bible. Um people people really it's hard for reading people uh Nikolai be charitable like I get it there's dry spots like I skip don't get me wrong I skip I skip past the genealogies I don't actually think the genealogies are that important unless you're doing a genealogical study of the Bible. Um but outside of that I just don't think it's that useful. So like I skip past that.
So I I'll I'll be fair. Okay. like yeah there are certain sections you could probably skip past um but the relevant sections I think that you read um don't take that long um yeah but we'll we'll get we'll get into it >> to get that consistency going and then you can jump >> uh if you got like four hours a day you can read I mean I think if you spend an hour to two hours reading as long as you're reading at a steady pace you should be able to read through it now I know some people don't read that quickly so that's why I said you could probably stretch that out for a few months, but I don't think it takes you two years. My goodness.
>> Jump in. Use the study assistant. Use Greek and Hebrew. See the cross references. Logos. Amazing. All that's pinned up. Let's jump into this conversation. Um, so here here's here here's the idea. You guys show show our atheist friend a lot of love. Make him feel warm and uh and give us give them a warm round of applause for Dr. Shawn McDow and Jared Smith.
Yeah.
>> My >> All right. All right. All right. So, uh >> I'm hip. I'm with the times.
>> These two are we do introductions?
>> I'm uh I'm with the Times, guys. Yo yo yo. My name is Fat Joe.
Uh I I I get down with the boys and I rap on my spare time.
Check out my uh my tapes. I got tapes in the back.
Can't do it, dude.
>> Intro. Introduce yourself. What do you do? Okay. Well, my name is Jared and first and foremost, uh, thanks to Rouslon for having me out. I'm holding down the fort on the atheist front here.
Um, which I know is a disappointment because last year you guys had Alex Okconor. So, uh, this is a downgrade this year. So, on the count of three, I want us all to do a collective side that you get me instead of Alex Okconor this year. So, one, two. A a I know. My name is Jared. I >> So, one thing I will say is Jared is extremely charismatic. You can tell he went to a Protestant seminary. He has the preaching chops, right? He has that like bubbly personality, like that TED talk, engage the audience, you know, you can very well tell that he does that, right?
Um, so that right away I'm I'm charismatic puffer says this is cringe.
No, I'm saying that this is really really how a lot of Protestants this is something they love. They love they eat this stuff up, guys. I know we find it cringe because we're Orthodox, a lot of us here, but this is actually like bread and butter to these people.
>> I'm an atheist. Uh, I've got a couple of degrees in theology. Um, and yeah, I have a series on YouTube called >> uh, so Rebecca says, "I like Jared in his reviews, but uh, he can be a little melodramatic sometimes, which is off-putting to me. This ve again very Protestant. He comes from I guarantee you we're going to find out about his background here. I guarantee you it's like charismatic circles, maybe reform, young reformed and restless circles. He probably came around that time period is when he was going through seminary.
Guaranteed." Um, Sunday Marco says when he went to the like the worst Protestant seminary, dude was like in Michael Brown Fire School of Ministry. Oh no, that is true. That's terrible. Oh yeah, that doesn't help at all. Um, I will say this, every single person I went to, uh, church with growing up, um, they all ended up atheists because they went to horrible seminaries. But that's not the only reason. Um, fundamentally, you know, Calvinism just leads to that in my opinion. Um but uh oh one thing uh he went to Wheaton College. O yeah that's pretty rough. I know everyone I know that went to Wheaton College that I grew up with. Um and I know more than a few um almost all of them ended up being libtards. Um complete libtards. Um but that being said guys I'm going to get some more tea. I am freaking like I'm going crazy.
I'm going to pass out if I don't get some sugar in my body. Um, I don't have diabetes, but my f it runs in my family where if I don't get like some sort of like something in my stomach, it has to be in my stomach. Um, I'm going to go like stir crazy and I start getting dizzy. So, give me one second, guys.
It'll be like less than 30 seconds.
All right, we're back. Back.
>> Was it 30 seconds? Somebody time me.
30 seconds.
>> Was I 30 seconds, guys? Or was I too long? Was I too long? Uh, we'll see.
Okay, let's get going.
>> Atheist Church Audit. So, what I do is every week, every couple of weeks, I try to go to a different denomination, a different sect, a different cult, and I experience it uh kind of going in blind.
I don't like doing my research beforehand. And yeah, I like to compare and contrast different faith movements, different streams, and uh see how it strikes me as somebody who's a little bit of an outsider.
by the way, he has a nineto-ive job. I >> I do want to say this, he is not an outsider.
He is not an outsider. He is an apostate from one of these denominations. Um now, now I will say this, he is not an insider when it comes to like orthodoxy or Catholicism. So that makes his analysis a little bit more objective.
But for him to say he's an outsider would suggest that he has no connection at all to these faith traditions, which isn't entirely true. He does have a connection >> and took the time to come out here for a couple days and produces content. I don't know how you do this.
>> He doesn't have any kids though.
>> You know what? That's where I was going.
Not married, no kids, so only so much sympathy. Uh Sean McDall, I'm a professor at Taba School of Theology. Get to write, speak, do a little bit of uh YouTube stuff as well. Husband got three kids. My 22-year-old son is here with me hanging out. Maybe get a chance to meet him, too. So, happy to be here.
>> All right. So, to kind of set this up, last year Jared attended the Bless God Summit. I don't know how many sessions you actually sat through.
>> Not many. We're spending a lot of time in a green room.
>> Yeah. But you did a great video uh kind of you did atheist church audit on the first Bless God Summit, which is really fun. And one of the things you said that I I personally was like, man, that's actually pretty valid. Is you talked about for context, like Jared's super smart and he's heard every argument.
>> Okay. So, he knows the apologetics. He know >> um I'm not entirely certain he's heard every argument.
Um again, in the fool in his heart says there is no God. Ultimately, I don't think Jared is actually an atheist, but again, not going to judge him. I'm going to let him speak for himself, but we'll see. I my suspicion is almost certain he hasn't heard tag second actuality. I would agree he probably hasn't heard tag or he hasn't heard he's probably heard of presuppositional apologetics like um uh like side 10 bugan cake style but that's really low tier presuppositionalism. Um I think tag from Jay Dyer's perspective uh probably could tear him a new one. I just don't think he is that interested in it.
He knows every argument. And one of the things you pointed out was how you think we C boy says tag is low tier.
Everyone who loses to tag says tag is low tier, but I've never seen someone be able to beat it.
>> We as Christians can engage our friends who have deconstructed or deconverted um is by showing the transformational aspect of what our communities do for people, how we rally amongst our own, how we care for each other. And you're like, that's a bigger testament than like scoring culture war points.
>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I was like, man, that's that's great. Like that that's actually true because as as followers of Jesus, I believe we should be much more known by the things we're for than just known for the things we're against. Uh and so I was like, man, that's a really good point and and I appreciated I appreciated that. And so I thought with Dr. Seawn, you've engaged with quite a few of these conversations.
And so here's here's kind of what what I'm hoping to tee up is like how do we have conversations with our friends who have deconverted, deconstructed, our atheists, non-believers, fill in the blank. Uh where C boy says Ted can't be beaten probably because it's not a valid argument.
It's I'm right therefore I'm right.
What? It's right there for I'm right.
That's not the argument of tag at all.
That's like that is like one of the most dishonest framing of tag I've ever seen in my life. But okay, we're not going to get into it on the comments here. Um, someone says, "What up in the house?" Yo, how's Rouselong doing? Uh, we'll see. He's so far he's just introducing everything.
He's kind of framing the entire discussion.
>> They're not going to water down or downplay the the the hard truths of our faith while at the same time meeting them where they're at. And I have a ton of thoughts on that. Um, just in terms of our interaction, I have I have so many uh non-Christian friends in my life that that like they're not a project for me. like like there's no like oh you need this formula and then if I get him Dr. I wonder if Rouson is going to ask him what was his favorite church denomination to attend because my my suspicion is is he might say Orthodox.
He might's book on the resurrection and then this and this and this and then they they hear the right worship song.
Like they're not a project to me. Like it's it's a it's it's it's life on life.
And Jared is someone that like I genuinely enjoy your presence. Like I enjoy being with you. U >> I do. I do. Like you you've come into my home. You've been around my family.
I just want to say this too, guys, for the chat. I trust that my moderators are going to be fair. Okay? So, if people are going to complain to me about the moderation, I'm trusting they're going to be fair. Okay? If you have a problem with the mods, you can bring it to them, right? Or you can message me privately and say, "I just don't think that was that fair." Okay? At the end of the day, I got to trust that they're going to do their job. So, um, let's get going. on my kids. Uh I genuinely enjoy you and and so let's jump into that. Like like where you at on that and I want to hear your perspective because what again I think there's this tension that we get to live in.
>> Um Octavian says Cleave and Rouson are exact opposites. Uh Cleave chose Orthodox. He's smaller, losing great financial opportunities. Rouson was Orthodox is now monetizing Protestants.
And and by the way, it's no secret that Cleave was kind of on the inside scoop with a lot of the stuff. He was growing extremely rapidly. He was on the ups and ups. Uh, Rouselon, Gavin, Ortland, Wes Huff, all these guys were in his messages and do it. So, Nikolai, I'm the take caller from Alex's chat. If I were to call in and have a critique my original approach, how I found it to take, would you be would that be fitting? That's totally fine. It'll be on X, though. So, if you don't have an X account, you're not going to be able to uh uh you're not going to be able to do it. and it would be fine. But again, after we're done, it's going to be after we done we're done with this review, then I'm going to do call-ins on X. Um, granted, we got to meet the goal. Um, because I have limited time today and it has to be worth my time. I'm just being real with you guys. It has to be worth my time. Um, >> of saying, hey, the reality is there are folks that have deconverted, deconstructed. We love them. However, >> why X? Because my Streamyard limit maxed out this month.
I don't pay for the unlimited yet, which I'm planning on doing here next month.
>> We don't compromise and we don't water stuff down yet. They do have some valuable insight for us sometimes in terms of how we might come off to non-Christians if we're just about scoring culture war points. Anyway, I'm going to see that. What do you think, John?
>> You know what? I'd love to just start by hearing a little bit more about your story. You have two degrees in theology, drove, you said you were a worship leader >> and preach like just tell us more about that. I think it's a great place to start. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, um I had my uh my come to Jesus moment when I was 13. Um the night of Christmas in 2007 and yeah, kicked off a very passionate, very um real relationship with the Lord. Uh that lasted 10 years.
So, um during that time, I studied apologetics. Uh I fell, you know, passionately in love with the Holy Spirit and um yeah, I I I uh first went to Dr. Michael Brown's uh school of ministry, his pseudo seminary thing. So I say two degrees, only one of them is a bonafide degree. Full disclaimer. Um not smart. And then after that I went to Wheaten College and did my second degree um there. And >> uh Christian heavy metal music.
>> It's true. Look up the album Ishmail by Heliocentric on Spotify. That was my senior project. Somebody gets it. Um but yeah, so that I I turned in a 12 song original album um about the theological conversation between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. um centering on the Aka uh Abraham sacrifice of Isaac uh/Ishmail if you're a Muslim um and that 12 song album and the 92page research >> uh but in order to call in at all also based what I heard him say yeah it'll be X uh it will be X unfortunately I don't have the ability to I don't have the ability to do anything on Streamlabs right now so the colins will be on X um sorry about that Paul I I would love to I would love to talk more with you about it. Um, but once my StreamYard limit is uh renewed, then I can. So, if you if you have to wait till then, that's fine. Just, you know, stay stay subscribed next time I'm live and doing a call-in space. Uh, then you could definitely check it out. Um, I think my I think it renews like halfway through the month. So, >> paper explaining the lyrics uh was what I traded for my degree. Nice. So not 91 pages, 92 pages. Do you remember exactly how many pages? What were the first seeds of like that started the process of decon conversion for you?
>> It's very interesting, right? Because um I think that a lot of people and this is kind of what I wanted to talk about was um I'm I'm fascinated by you know what a good rep presentation of the gospel looks like and what a poor kind of lousy presentation of the gospel looks like.
by and large um when somebody approaches me and wants to you know bring me back to Jesus.
>> So uh Journey to GM says I have questions for you about missions in Asia for certainly I'll answer to the best of my ability. You can ask questions here um or you can call in but I uh just put a big Q with a colons and then a question and I I'll try and answer as much. Sorry about the crunching guys.
It's the ice.
I'll try not to crunch anymore.
>> Um, it's usually pretty shallow, but when it's done badly, it's shallow and it's usually coming from a place of ignorance. And so, uh, someone says, "He Skittles, I bet $5 from Bill Hicks.
Christ has risen." So true. Indeed, he is risen.
>> Um, I believe that speaking is a platform that is earned through listening, right? And exactly what Sean's doing now, you know, asking about, you know, what were the things that that led up to it. I think that's solid. So um I would say that there was not, you know, one specific thing. Um it was a whole host of things, right?
Because I believe that belief is a tapestry. Um nobody believes in this or that or or or nobody believes in Christianity because of one thing, right? It's well it's because of, you know, the historical res.
>> It's it's so painful. Oh, just like it's tapestry.
>> Keep forgetting uh Nikolai is in Korea because he's a white dude with an American accent. So true. a motan accent to be straight. $2 for the StreamYard unlimited fund. I'm not on X. Oh, so true, Bill. Uh yeah, you that that's my next that's actually my next uh my next purchase is uh is that so >> um >> direction for the the uh the historical case for the resurrection um or it's you know the um the case for the inherency of scripture or the philosophical arguments the colum cosmological cos colum cosmological argument they should shorten that um and you know kind of one by one I think that tapestry kind of became a little bit afraid right now.
The actual specific reasons of why I'm not a Christian and why I'm an atheist, um, I don't like to get into it.
>> I don't like to answer those questions usually, uh, at least not in a public context. One, because I don't enjoy introducing doubt to people.
>> Um, decon conversion for me and becoming an atheist was one of the most painful things I ever went through. And I don't want to impose that on somebody if they're not ready for it. Now, if they're in a a particular denomination or sect or cult that is that is killing them inside um that is making them feel suicidal or you know they hate themselves because of their sexuality or >> There we go. There we go guys.
There we go.
Who called it? Who called it in chat?
Who called it? It was Danny Town. I think it was Danny Town.
Um, David Bradford, for those who are not in the know, why are you in North Korea? I'm in South Korea. Um, in South Korea, I was a US military, Air Force veteran. Um, married to a Korean, beautiful Korean woman prior to my military service. And, uh, she got pregnant, joined the military. Uh, after my military service was up, I went straight into defense contracting. I was a defense contractor for the Korean government and the US government. So I was kind of a liazison between the two for communication systems and then um those contracts kind of dried up and now I run my own business which is a small uh I I run my own business. It's an orthodox uh IT company. We do digital marketing, um, uh, you know, cyber security, website development, SEO for small businesses, and, uh, most of my clients are remote, so I continue to live out here, so that's pretty good. Do I speak good Korean? My Korean is okay. Um, my, uh, speaking ability is way low compared to my listening ability. I can actually understand a good amount of Korean. So, someone said, "Nikolai military insult uh intel SC confirmed. I was an IT I was a I was an IT guy. I pulled cables for a living. Um I was a network engineer more specifically. Um someone said, "I'm a fed." So, true. Thank you for your service. That's cool. I'm starting a business soon. If you need website, hit me up.
I promise you I'll be reasonable. um >> you know the the fear of hell is overwhelming. If they have a faith that is you know truly cancerous to their soul then um Nikolai when you get hyped up do you say whoa like they do out there?
You talking about Korea? Who oh no no no you're confusing.
No I don't. Um though I have picked up a couple habits from Koreans like uh Nicola I works for Northrup Grumman at one point I did but Northrup Grumman doesn't exist anymore by the way they were bought out by Paraton and that's who I used to work for at least at one point I had a contract with uh Paracon at one point also had a contract with SIC um I've had a contract with Actionet and a bunch of other ones so I I had a bunch so Uh yeah, I had a wide variety of contracts that I had done over the years. Um oh, Koreans go whoa in physical 100. No, no, no. See, the thing that I pick up in for Koreans is uh my wife doesn't, and by the way, this is true. All Koreans do this. They go through their teeth or like when they're like, "What are you doing?" or "Moya like things like that." They suck through their teeth. Like when they're like pissed, you know, like like when my daughter is doing something wrong, I go and she goes the hiss. They hiss. They do. They legitimately go just watch some Kdramas.
They do it all the time. Uh actually, there's one that recently came out called Perfect Crown. Um, it's not comp it's like not all the episodes are out, but they do it so often in in that show.
It's like a perfect distillation of of what they do. But yeah, Korean Koreans um Korean dramas are pretty clean.
That's another reason I like Korean dramas is that they're really clean for the most part. So anyways, we're going to continue with this guys. I'm getting bogged down. You guys are distracting me. What are you doing?
>> And yeah, I'll I'll talk you through that. I'm happy to to help you walk through that journey and leave. But by and large, that's not my MO. So, that's one reason I don't like talking about the specifics. Fair.
>> The other is, uh, I think that I've found that apologists are often bad stewards of that information.
>> Um, and I've seen them be very uncharitable with that. So, if I were to say, well, I don't believe in the historicity of the resurrection. You know, I can anticipate the, you know, 12 respon.
>> Marco, are you married to a Korean? Me, when my wife drops the boliton videos immediately, or I could, you know, anticipate somebody running up to me and saying like, but Jarrett, have you read this book? Have you have you done this or that? And I'm just not interested in having those conversations anymore. I want to hear about why Jesus Christ is the most beautiful thing in your life.
>> Now, I could guess, but I don't want to guess. You said it's correct my words if they're not right. The most painful thing you've been through.
>> Yeah.
>> As much as you're comfortable, what made it so painful?
>> Great question.
I have never loved anyone as much as I loved Jesus.
And losing him was losing my purpose, losing my truest friend, and losing my aim in life. And that's >> uh So Marco says, "No, I'm not. I'm super Mexican. So is my wife." Oh, well that means that means you guys might have a very very weak uh very distant relation to Asians. So we eat K Baby Q maybe bi-weekly. So she said, "Hey, if you guys Marco, if you end up coming to Korea, I'll take you out sometime to some real Korean barbecue." Like the true stuff, like the top of the line good stuff, the the top tier stuff. If you ever come out here, reach out to me. Okay, brother. Um, anyways, let's continue.
>> Sucked.
This is so melodramatic. I think Marco is right. This like it's so I've never loved Jesus more than Okay, if you love Jesus so much, then why didn't you fight for your faith more?
It's performative. Uh, this is performative pidey disgust me to be honest. Yeah, it kind of does, too.
I've got more questions, but I kind of want to let that one sit a little bit. I want to let that sit. So, do you It sounds like if I'm not mistaken, you wish Christianity were true. You would want it to be true.
Or am I putting words in your mouth when I say that? Or a certain understanding of Jesus, you wish you were true. Like what what Jesus would be because obviously people are going to debate about who Jesus is and what he taught and we could go back and forth on that.
Not interested in this conversation.
>> Yeah. But what is it about Jesus that's so captivating to you? And do you really wish that that >> Is this the average service at Rhythm Church? It has to be. It has to be. This has to be the average service. Like can it's uh soup? Well, I mean there Korean barbecue is just called BBQ, but they the different the different things that they use in terms of like terminology.
Um it depends on the type of meat. So there's gi, there's samsa, there's all these different ones that you can different cuts of meat and types of meat that you can eat at a Korean BBQ. Um, so >> were true, but just can't believe it. I would say that, you know, Jesus as he's presented in the Gospel of John, right?
I love that story. I think it's so awesome and cool. Um, it's my favorite book, by the way.
>> 100% 100%. Well, now that I'm an atheist, mine is Ecclesiastes. Uh, that's good.
>> Is Jesus God?
>> Yes. Is God perfect? Yes. Yeah. That's why I love Jesus.
>> Um, you know, when Paul talks about meditating on good, beautiful things.
Oh, this is so just like you can tell that he was trained by like the charismatic like preacher style like um you could just tell that the style of preaching that he grew up with. He has that this conversation is missing one thing. Testosterone.
This is so cringe. It is guys, but I promised myself I'd have to review this.
So, it's missing the melodramatic music.
I know. But the the reason that we're reviewing this guys is because it's important to highlight and understand why so many people are disillusioned with this style of Christianity. Why this style of Christianity is dying and why so many people are coming to orthodoxy. It's precisely because of things like this.
It's precisely because of this.
My understanding of Jesus was that he was perfection incarnate. And how can you not fall in love with someone like >> perfection incarnate?
He he mytholize he myth mythologizes Christ and who Christ is as a person and then complains about losing this Um, no. He He's definitely sending off homo vibes, guys. I'm just saying it definitely there there's ding ding ding ding ding homo vibes all over the place >> like that, right?
>> What? So, when you you call yourself an atheist now, >> did you go through a period of like, >> uh, Paul says, "Have mercy on him." You nailed the tradition he came from. But is the tradition he came from? And is and as Mel Dragen is is sincere. I I think he is sincere.
But the tradition he comes from makes it just scream like gh you just roll your eyes.
>> I'm an agnostic. I'm a deist. Or what what was that process like to say fullon atheist?
>> I think that's less interesting, right?
I mean, I think the Oh, man. believers really want to get hung up on like, well, are you agnostic or atheist or I I I I don't think there's a God, >> right?
>> I'm interested in your journey, by the way. Not exactly 100% 100%, but but I think that um Yeah, I think it was >> I'm interested in your journey.
>> Do seriously, that's what we're doing?
It's insane.
I'm not interested in the journey. I'm interested in you. No, bro. Like, just tell me why you don't believe in Jesus so we can talk about this and actually like address this and and maybe come to some sort of resolution on it. Like, I'm just not I'm literally I'm not interested in your journey. Like, this is so painfully cringe.
>> Um, fall in love equals infatuation.
That is not cheras or latria.
Cheras or latria. Yeah. Worship like like yes I love Christ but I love Christ in a very specific way. Um and this like weird kind of boyfriend Jesus that so many evangelical types often grow up with and people like in rhythm church. Ah boyfriend Jesus. Uh he's my boyfriend. like the way they treat him. Uh, that's a big problem. Hippie Jesus, right? And Sunday Marco says it's a classic trope of CrossFit bros, vegans, atheists, always loving when people ask them about being that. Yeah, >> quite overnight, but you know, over the course of a summer, I think it was, you know, the big thing was, hey, I don't think Christianity is true. Um and then kind of separate from that it's like yeah I guess I also don't think that um that that God is true but yeah I think it was a pretty quick process.
>> So when you told people presumably family friends >> what are some people in your mind you're like you know what they responded well >> and those are some people you don't have to name them unless you want to you're welcome to it's like that wasn't helpful >> from Chick-fil-A.
He wrote atheist on the bag.
Stat on my chicken. Um, >> I would say that >> so funny. I just I Guys, this is the funniest This is the funniest guy I've ever met. It's just This is hilarious.
Oh my gosh. It's just cringe, guys. It's cringe. It's terrible.
Um, oh my lord. just in charge. Um the people who responded well >> were the ones who were secure in their faith.
>> Um but that that's that's that's good.
Let me just say this because uh Jared's journey shouldn't threaten your faith.
>> You should be able to to to look at that.
>> Yeah. You hear that in the background?
All the people like Yeah. So true.
Reaffirm your faith constantly. It's like this this constant affirm your faith, affirm your faith, have faith, have faith, have faith, affirm it, affirm it. And then you have to like a verbally agree so that you can feel as if this isn't threatening or something like that. It's like it it's so performative.
It drives me up the wall, right? Um, and it's it's very like again it's a very TEDtalky like whoa, my mind's blown, bro. Like it's just I just can't do it.
And every time I think or I study or I went down this rabbit hole the other day of all these other theories about Jesus really being rabbis and these charts timelines and and I walked away from it like what? I love Jesus more and I believe more and I'm more confident in my faith. Right? So Jared's journey and where he's at now shouldn't threaten you and and the confidence you have and and and hopefully um when when we are are able to just sit in that for a moment like that I think to me is is very powerful because then we can genuinely learn and go okay what what what does what insight does Jared have or or how because again I think with your atheist church audit series like it to me it gives me a lot of perspective and context on stuff of like hey because the scriptures talk a lot about hey have a good name amongst outsiders. Have a good name amongst non-believers, right? Um, live such good lives among the pagans so they accuse you of doing wrong they may see your good deeds and worship God on the day he visits them.
>> Like that's a that's a really bold proclamation and prescription that Paul's giving us. So I think you made that point of like, hey, it's the people that that aren't threatened because then they're not trying to trick you with any like Christian voodoo and all that, you know? Are you guys familiar with the term Jesus duke? Uh, yeah. Don't Jesus juke people, man. It's like uh anyway.
>> Yeah.
This is one thing that I will say in agreement here because we can easily bash these guys the entire time.
Uh so funny they talk about work so much. It is that is kind of amusing. One thing I'll say about this is that um in in an agreement with them is that this kind of like I'm going to trick you into believing in Jesus is a very Ray Comfort style thing. It's like oh let me fool you into believing that God exists. Let me fool you into it's like you don't need to. Everybody in their hearts already has all the information they need to know information they need to know that Christ exists to know that God exists. Everyone already has enough of that. What they need is illumination by the Holy Spirit. This is why St. Saraphim Sarav says you know acquire the spirit of peace. The thousand around you will be saved.
It's it's a lot simpler than people make it out to be.
>> Were you going to talk? I had a question for you, but sure.
>> Oh man, what was I going to say?
>> Yeah. I mean, I think that like just real quick, um, sometimes I'll introduce myself to a believer and I'll say like, "Oh yeah, I'm an atheist. I'm an ex-Christian."
And you can see like the terror in their eyes and it's like it's like, "Man, I'm not I'm not I'm not here to like [ __ ] your faith, dog. Like, like chill." Um, and you know, I I I sometimes see people like kind of shake and tremble and it's like, >> you know, to for some people, right?
>> I love being next to you when we when you do the reveal.
We were just at chosen con together and he's telling >> he introduces he runs up to people he's like have you met my atheist friend >> but they were they were >> just so cringe like Rouselon what are you doing like it's like Rouson is trying to be like yeah I would never do that he's just my buddy like if I had an atheist friend he was just a buddy of mine he's just my buddy like oh he's my atheist friend is So, it's just so grading because it's like performative.
It's completely performative.
>> All by and large, those ladies were all by and large very sweet. They were very, they were very sweet. They were very kind.
>> None of them tried to lay hands on you and pray over you in tongues.
>> No, nothing weird happened.
>> No, nothing weird happened thankfully.
Um, but I mean I I don't let the fear of somebody hurting your faith prevent you from being a good Christian, >> right? Um, I was hurting when I left the faith.
>> It sucked. I I didn't want to live anymore, man. And people were so quick to to coax their own doubt.
rather than just just hold me, right? Like like and and this is >> dude guys, he's 100% homosexual. That's got to be it. There's just no I can't think of any other reason why that like this is just like I'm real just like no one talks like this. Just just hold me. I'm in so much pain. So melodramatic.
It's like, oh lord. Just like sends shivers up my spine just thinking about it.
>> This is so frustrating to me because this bleeds into politics as well. You know, like um something crappy happens in the news and immediately people are bickering about who's in the right and who's in the wrong, like this community is hurting. They're scared.
And so, you know, before you dive headlong into um you know, trying to justify your side or or or coax your own doubt, like just just see them, man.
>> Y >> were there any communities that embraced you? Well, or some Christians that you're like, man, they did it right. And what did that look like?
I think I think my friends from college were really good about it. And, you know, in that dark night of the soul, I didn't need to talk it through.
I didn't need to hash it out. I didn't need to go through the apologetics again. I needed to play board game. I needed uh to, you know, run around campus being a little Helian, blasting some Eminem, playing hide-and-seek on campus, you know, like um what hide and seek, bro. Like, like this is such infantilization of the intellect, such an infantilization of the faith. It's it's it's an infantilization in the bad way. Like, yes, we're called to be like children in our faith, like have an innocence about our faith, but not infantilize our faith.
Ultravoid $10. Thank you. He says, "No, he's only cosplaying as a gay friend. I mean, an atheist friend."
Yeah. I mean, yeah. Well, well, let's let's keep on going.
>> That was that meant the world to me. Um, and you know, it'll it'll get brought up eventually, right? I heard you once say, uh, play the long game.
And I think that so many Christians absolutely destroy their witness by being so quick to they want to fix it.
They want to jump in. And you need to weep with those who weep and mourn with those who mourn. And even if you think that the reason why that person is weeping is BS, it's not to them.
>> Romans.
>> Yeah.
Praise God. He's preaching. He's preaching right now. Preaching to my soul.
You hear that in the background? So annoying.
>> When's 12? Honest, man. Love it. That's a good word. Um, man, I do have a ton of questions. I want I partly kind of want to let just some of this sit with us a little bit. some of just the >> it's so performative just let's sit let let marinate guys we really need to think on these words that he's saying because these are so important why is it important oh because super profound why is it profound just trust me it's profound what it's just like oh my lord this is just like really irritating really irritating >> response that we do Well, in response, we don't do well. Do you, it sounds like, if I'm not mistaken, when you were a Christian, you were pretty confident, dialed in, didn't have a lot of doubts, that shifted.
How confident are you in your atheism now? How much do you So, two questions.
How confident are you that atheism is true? And how much do you think about the big questions? Like Ryan Burge this week, who's one of the leading like demographers, he was talking about how much people think about God and the afterlife and the big questions. And it was like black Protestants, Mormons, and then evangelicals. Nuns were like the lowest, but I think roughly half still think about these questions.
>> Sure. Sure.
>> So, how much like do you ever go, "Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have left. Are you pretty confident?"
>> I'd love to hear.
>> There's a few questions in there. Um, how confident am I that Christianity is not true? I'm overwhelmingly confident.
>> Um, how confident am I that there's not?
>> Why? I mean, and here's the thing. It's such a little duplicitous game that he's kind of playing here, Jared. No offense to you, Jared, but it's a little bit of a duplicitous game you're playing because you're not willing to tell people what it is that makes you so confident, which by the way, as Christians, we're called to defend our faith and understand these things and give an answer to these things. So you by refusing to actually do this, by the way, thank you for the $5. Ultravoid says, "I didn't know theater guys now had podcasts." I know it's ridiculous.
Um, while watching this, I imagine Jay asking this guy this uh homework questions. Yeah, I mean, it's true because like you can just tell like you can tell it's all feelings based for him. His entire like apostasy from Christianity. Again, everyone knows that God's real. Everybody does. Everybody.
Um, and and I would say that Christianity overwhelmingly has the best default position on God in the first place also. So like like none of this is really that like let's be real, guys.
He's not convinced because of any good arguments against it. He's convinced because he's had this emotional experience which he's clearly trying to like keep under the background.
He probably has some interpersonal things going on in his life that caused him to apostatize and he's trying ever ever since then he's been trying to justify that apostasy secretly unbeknounced to me a higher power. I'm more confident than I am not confident but it's not the hill that I'm willing to die on.
>> Um and then what was your last question? Oh man, >> I was just curious if you do I ever How much do you think about questions about the afterlife and God and >> Oh brother, I live there >> like all because you're going to churches. Is it like a job or is it like still existential for you?
>> No, no, no. I mean I mean um you know the the videos that I post are incredibly personal, right? And they, >> you know, I I meditate on you know who I am, what I am, where is this all going, where does it come from? Um, you know, I I live there. Um, and so I don't know. I think guys, this is pretty painful. This is pretty painful to watch because it's like all it's if you could distill if you could distill the kind of people I grew up with. Jared is the kind of person. Rouselong is the kind of person.
Like there are so many of them. They're just you could just there's there's a level of fakeness about it that you just can't quite get over.
I I I I think that my atheist church audit series is just an extension of that. You know, I'm I'm more than happy to hear other people speculate and muse on it and I I disagree at times, but um sometimes hearing them talk about it with the the twinkle of hope in their eye, it's like >> I'm confused at the premise. Why are they interviewing a Skittles atheist at a religious event? Is this Jared guy famous? He does a church audit where he goes around and like reviews church services.
Uh Enslaved by Truth says, "Are we hating on him? He thinks Orthodox Church is the best church. Have you watched those videos?" I have watched those videos.
My biggest problem with the v uh is nothing to those videos. I praised his videos. I praded his I praised his analysis of the culture in those videos.
That doesn't mean I'm not going to criticize him for his really really brain rot level arguments here.
These are just brain rot level responses. They're just like very evangelical coded. It's very painful.
>> Yeah, I think they're full of crap. But >> but I think it's a lovely site.
>> So you you were a worship leader, you said. So for me, like when I want to just fill up my soul, I'll do a few things. Sometimes I just listen to worship music.
>> Mhm.
>> Sometimes I jump on my ebike. I live in San Juan. And I just head to Dhini Beach. Do you know where that I just walk along the beach and I just pray, think, get my mind away from stuff. So it's it's nature, it's scripture, it's worship songs. What is it like for you, especially since you're a worship guy, to be like, I just fill my heart up, fill my soul up. Or is that question itself like biased and you're like, you're asking the wrong question? Oh.
How do I fill my soul up? Right, with groanings too deep for words, right? I mean, it's so surface level. It's so cringe.
It's so bad.
I like my my beliefs are pretty straightforward. I think you die and goes black. There's nothing magical about it, you know.
>> Mystifist groaning too deep for words, bro. What?
It's so homosexual. It's so homosexual, guys.
>> It's nothing crazy about my my perspective or views. It's it's pretty straightforward. Um, but man, sometimes just, you know, people bring me to tears. Just humans are wonderful and I don't know why I think they're wonderful, but they are.
>> Hey, maybe it's because we're made in the image of God and you still know that we're made in the image of God and you just can't handle that.
Anyone think it could be that? Does anyone actually think it could be that?
And I feel inordinately grateful to to meet people and you know have friends that care about me and I'm fed. I'm in an air conditioned room like you know stuff is good and sometimes it's really not. Um >> sometimes right here >> sometime some things are really good and sometimes it's really not but right here right now it really is. It's like my face melts off and I just start dying.
right now. It is.
>> Can you tell me about you? So, like for people that don't know, and this is someone new to me, every week or two, you're visiting some religious >> congregation here. Tell me, >> was it called like, correct me if I'm wrong, like Sweet Daddy cult or something like that? Like, what is happening?
>> Show of hands. Who here has seen any of my Sweet Daddy videos? Let's go. I haven't even seen this stuff. This is like new to me. But >> oh man, just great.
>> This is crazy fascinating guy who thinks he's Jesus reincarnated 100 churches around the US, >> which is like we can talk about this is all the stuff that everybody goes, I'm interested in this and dramatic.
>> That's fascinating. And that's >> what's crazy is it's already 1.25. We'll go 1.5. Otherwise, it's going to be too quick.
>> Clickbait and can be good clickbait done well. That's not a critique. I'm more interested and you went to a place that maybe wasn't so dramatic, but you're like, "Wow, these people are really living the Jesus worldview in a way that's captivating and authentic."
>> Yeah.
>> Tell me about that.
>> Captivating and authentic.
>> If you can't think of one, then we have other issues to deal with, don't we?
>> Well, oh man, >> it doesn't have to be perfect. Maybe I painted that.
>> So, so there are wonderful people across the board anywhere I go. Um, you know, one of the one of the first audits I ever did was um a local black church near me and you know, I walk in, I'm a cipher sore eyes, you know, I look kind of like a creeper like, you know, huddled up in the back and those people hugged me and they were so warm and so gracious and I I was I was basically moved to tears and I, you know, stood up and commended them for how how warm andospitable they were. So So there was something to that. But then >> there's something human about it.
They're warm. They give me hugs. I like hugs. Hugs are warm and cuddly and great.
What is that? same time I also have to bring up the Jehovah's Witnesses who are notorious for love bombing and so you know there's tension there of you know making people feel welcomed and loved um while at the same time not you know manipulating people through ness so so there's a there's a spectrum there um man I so you know that that terror that I was talking about when I introduced myself as an atheist I got to give it to the Mormons ah the Latter-day Saints let's go let's go >> why is Rouselon on inviting or allowing a bunch of Mormons to his bless God summit.
It's very weird. That's like like don't get me wrong, but like and and Rousson isn't even like pushing back and saying, "Well, we don't believe Mormonism is Christian, so what about an actual Christian?" Like that's what I would say.
>> Now, now this compliment has to be tempered because they bribed me with a free cruise.
So, take it with a grain of salt. Dang.
But I had so many wonderful conversations with people there. That meant a lot to me. Um, bird's eye view. Inerson interactions are worth 10 times more than anything online. Um, and my pitch at the end of all my videos is my name is Jared. I'm an atheist. Go to church. And then I like burp or something stupid, right?
And that is sincerely my hope is that people would meet people in person. I don't want people to explore religious communities or other ideas through their Tik Tok algorithm. I want them to go and shake somebody's hand and look them in the eye and hear their story. It's important. Um, >> this is pretty painful, guys. Answer the question.
>> I just got back from Egypt. Um, I spent two weeks there with some Coptic Christians. And man, the way um that the little kids would run up to the men in Black Cassix, the priests and the deacons, and they would run up to the to the the priest, and they would say, "Abuna, Abuna, father, father, give me a blessing." I don't know how you cultivate a community of safety where that religious garb signifies safety that even children who have never met you are running up to you and, you know, you're like Santa Claus to them. So, that's really cool. And then if you're talking about the most beautiful um expressions of Christian love that I've experienced >> would be when you came to the bless God with all these amazing people.
>> Softball baby.
>> You know there's I'm interested in cutting through the BS because I think that nobody's lied to me more than I've lied to myself. And I think that's true for a lot of other people as well.
>> Yeah. And >> nobody's lied to me more than I lied to myself. Oh my lord. This is so cringe, guys. I might die. This might kill me.
Rous lame. Oh lord. Can Can you believe he did that? Like he's just like when you came to the bless like oh dude this is killing my soul.
I see a lot of believers, you know, they'll say like, well, you know, like I I'm just loving you and the way that I'm loving you is by telling you you're wrong. And there's kind of this, you know, just this mentality that like, you know, the most loving thing I can do is uh tell you that you're going to hell or tell you why, you know, this or that thing is a sin or ber you about culture war stuff. Um, and a lot of times I think that >> Altervoid for $5 says, "Was Rousson really on his phone? Maybe he was checking to see if he was monetized.
Oh, Lord have mercy.
>> People are just lying to themselves, you know, like how you you you need to to look in your own heart >> and ask yourself like, "Am I preaching the gospel to this person because I sincerely care?"
>> He got worried he was going to say, "Eo." Yeah, I think he did.
I think he I think Rouselon interjected because he really wanted to like move on from that because the you could tell from the OO question how uncomfortable Rouson was at that very moment.
At that very moment with the O question when he said, "Oh, when I was in Egypt, man, I had never felt more love than in that moment and all this stuff."
Um, Bruce Long was super uncomfortable with that. And then when he continued to think about it, you could tell that he was probably gonna go, "O EO." Because just based on his videos and the ones that I've consumed, um, Eio had a very profound impact on his on him. In particular, the one in Ralele, South Carolina >> about them more than I care about myself. Or am I doing it because I think I'm going to get a reward in heaven or because his atheism threatens my conviction? Yeah, I I have a friend who's a nun in Eastern Europe, and I didn't know you could do this. You can just text nuns. It's cool. They have cell phones now. I didn't know that.
Speedrun the dono goal. Wow, guys, you guys just hit 10. That means we will be doing a call-in on X afterwards. And then we got another five from Mr. Fist.
I feel like uh I need to go on a cycle of test just to recover from these levels of soy in this video. Has exposed me to Thanks, Nol. Hey, anything for the soy. Anything for the soy.
Hey, I know guys, next time it will be a call-in via StreamYard. Next time it will cuz I will have a renewed credits and stuff like that, but for now it's going to be on X.
>> Do you call her mother? No.
you well first off you don't call a nun mother unless she is an abbotist and even then it's kind of like depends on the tradition but no you don't call a nun mother >> she um you know we we had a we've had several fun conversations and she's just really gracious >> how do you say x in Korean x it's literally just x but x with a at the Um, and she once told me, "Jared, I want you to be in heaven more than I want to be there myself."
>> Would you trade your spot in heaven for somebody else?
>> Um, no.
>> I know. I I'm going to answer that quickly. Like, the nun might, but my desire to be with God is so great that why on earth would I ever want to trade it with somebody who does not necessarily even want to be with God?
I'll pray for them. I certainly want them to come into heaven. But nobody who is in hell is in hell uh because they didn't desire to be with God. They're in hell precisely because they don't want to be united with God.
Do you want to see them flourish in all domains of their life or does it kind of piss you off? You know, when the atheist who's who's gay is like, you know, he's thriving and he's happy and he's doing well. Does that upset you?
>> There's the gay thing comes out again.
You guys can just You can just hear it.
It always comes back to sexuality. It's got to be It's got to be that, guys.
It's got to be There's no other explanation. There's no other explanation >> because Well, no. He's supposed to He's supposed to convert. He's supposed to, you know, he's his life is supposed to be in the crapper and he's supposed to, you know, come crawling on his hands and knees and have us come to Jesus moment.
But like, do you rejoice when he's rejoicing?
So, I got a question for you. I've had a bunch of questions and if you want to ask me questions and flip the script, that's totally fine. So, like the apologist and evangelist in me, I'm going to be completely honest with you, is like, "Okay, so you just made a point about somebody substituting for somebody else in heaven as like this powerful moment of love when you substitute and sacrifice for somebody else."
>> I'm sitting here going, "This is kind of a metaphor for Jesus." and you're the atheist preaching it to us. So, your heart knows that's the deepest sign of love whether you meant it that way or not. And we yearn for that. But rather than asking you that question, I'm going to let it sit. I want to ask you because I am an evangelist. I'm an apologist. I believe this stuff and I'm trying to think of ways to hopefully lovingly persuade people in the right time and at the right way with what I think is true.
>> Right. Right.
>> So, for somebody >> uh he's mentioned it multiple times already. It's got to be it. It could be that or or and I'm going to be charitable here. It could be that he has a close friend that was gay because I kn know people like that who lost their faith because they had so much love for somebody that they knew who was in those circles that they couldn't they couldn't rationalize any other way.
>> They're going, "Wait a minute. Here's an opening. coach me as an atheist how you think we should balance speaking truth going a minute you're preaching the gospel you really believe this versus just saying let it go just love be patient knowing that you've been where we are how do you think we should balance those things >> what a doozy man can I can I read one verse I think that bridges this question yeah >> well because I think this is this verse summarizes literally what just happened >> eject button first >> first John Okay.
>> 3:16 says, "This is how we know what love is. Jesus Christ laid down his life for us and we >> You got to love that dynamic camera switch angle." They're like, "Switch it.
Got to see the back of his head. See the side of his as he's reading the Bible and can't see his head, but just like that dynamic switch. Different camera angle. Got to love it." Um, very dynamic. I I just think that's a terrible camera angle. Like I just like like I'm making fun of it because I think it's like really bad angle.
>> We ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. Right. Right.
There's part of this that I have to defer on. Right. I I can't in good conscience um coach believers how to um you know grapple with a conservative view on homosexuality, right? um that that's one of the few areas where I say, "Hey, if you're if you're wrestling with samesex attraction or being gay, like you're you're allowed to leave." And I I don't know how to coach my believing friends on how to tell, you know, people with it's that it's over. That's that's that is it's all comes again. It always comes back to a defense of degeneracy.
I can't justify my degeneracy in the scriptures. Therefore, it can't be true because why would God make me this way?
It's an argument from incredul. That's a guarantee you if we were to dig down into it, it'd be an argument from incredul with that as part of their story. Um, so you're on your own for that one. Um, where we're going to have to be a disagreement there. Um, beyond that though, I mean, greatest witness of all.
>> How I realize there's not an atheist community by any stretch of the imagination. I have friends in completely different worlds that see the world differently from each other, politically, philosophically, fill in the blank. What What are some of the common, >> but why are you gay? Why are you gay?
You must tell me why are you gay?
Let's get uh I gotta pull this up, guys.
Um we met the goal. So, I'm going to open up the X space now for you guys to call in. I know not all of you have it. It will be changed. Uhon slashtheist video review or bless God slash Bless God. Review uh call in.
There we go.
Hello.
Copy the link. Put it right here. Right there. Send and pin the message. There you guys go.
We're going to be finishing this up and then we will go right into the the Q&A.
>> Might I might end it early if it gets boring.
>> Things you hear back from atheists given what you do or maybe just former Christians.
>> Um I usually get two types of emails. Um, I get emails from Christians who say, "Hey, Jared, I know this doesn't make sense and I know this is weird, but your videos have strengthened my faith. Bless God. Hallelujah. I'm I'm really happy when I hear that. That somehow, you know, people are thriving or they're going to church for the first time or they're exploring new religious.
>> They're thriving because see, again, for him, his entire paradigm now is just human thriving, which is very much what the the homosexuality thing ends up being like is this human thriving, right? Um, so very very very um you uh very usual for those people to do that >> communities or they were afraid of their Muslim neighbors 10 minutes ago and now they're going to a mosque to remind themselves, hey, these are humans with stories and families and loved ones.
That's the first type of email I got.
The second type of email is, hey, um I was an atheist and I was um a lot more angry before I watched your videos. And uh I'm I'm okay with both of those. And of course, I get people who say like, "Hey, I've I've started deconstructing and deconverting because of your videos."
And I'm happy with that, too.
>> By the way, >> I would say that all three are about an equal smattering.
>> Oh, >> and I'm I'm okay with all of them.
>> That's That's interesting.
>> Um, we got what, seven minutes left. Got to poke poke.
>> Feel like a dough boy, right?
>> That was so bad. Just like this, guys.
It's just so bad. It's so bad. Octaven requested, "Brother Octavian, how are you doing?"
This is uh pretty cringe, huh? I mean, it's pretty obvious once we got into it what his his actual reason for being an atheist is really just uh social liberalism.
He doesn't like the exclusivity claims of Christianity.
Uh I did approve you. So just go ahead and chime in when you're >> Could you grant for the sake of of argument that even the idea of >> Hey caring?
>> What's up?
>> Hey dude. So uh I mean this this is on the on the broader uh perspective of the whole uh uh Protestantism situation.
>> Uhhuh. I work I work with a lot of them and you know we we have these discussions frequently >> and um one of the I wouldn't say the a worldview killshot but just a worldview argument that's sort of indefensible is that when you look at the US um if you if you look at it like um globally like if you rise above like time and space and you look at the US continent it was for Christianity for example it was like or any religion per se it was like a blank slate right and it from the and the Puritans got here first or the Protestants so if you consider the history of the US in time and space the Puritans or essentially the Protestants have been in charge of this country you know spiritually uh culturally theologically politically, financially since the beginning up until now.
And you know if if theology is like a starting point and from there you have culture that you know downstream from that is politics downstream from that is uh human behavior or public behavior, society, finances, whatever. Like this is where we're at.
This is where we arrived, you know, with the Protestant mentality or the Protestant theology like we're here, >> you know.
>> Yeah.
>> Is this the world you want to live in essentially?
Like do you like it, you know?
And I think one of the reasons you see them >> uh trying to pivot now, you know, not now, but like for the last couple of decades, they're pivoting. And it's almost freakishly weird because if you notice, you know, I don't know, I commented in the in the in the comments.
What's cringe about this conversation is that or many Protestant conversations with atheists or whatever is that they the the Protestants assume an equal position >> with like the degenerate atheist you know and I'm not talking about Jared like just in general you know they assume that equal position yeah and it's almost like they have they give the same value to the guy's degenerate arguments >> as Christ and the and and scripture and Christianity gives and it's like they let the audience pick well you pick you know what's better >> instead of just being like no you're matter well what they do is they say what matters is love but notice how it always coming back to love like he's always coming back and saying it's love and then and then there's no push back from Rouselon or the other people now again granted they don't want to scare the guy off right I get that like there's some level of I can understand why they're not pushing back as hard as they But at the same time um >> no but asking the guy to justify his positions >> is not >> even do it gently do it ironically you know like but just do it just ask him to justify it and then walk him down this path to see like where those views lead essenti you know it's like Jay does that >> you know uh I mean Jay Jay gets annoyed a lot of times you know but Andrew does it pretty Well, >> Mhm.
>> you know, when he's on freaking whatever podcast. So, and I think that's why, like you were saying, people are sick of this like Oprah style stuff.
>> Well, >> and you know, theater and performances, you know, >> it's it's performative. I grew up with this. Again, I I I can't emphasize with people enough that this is the exactly like like Jared is the exact type of person that I seen all of the people that I grew up with that went that were super hardcore, you know, reformed Calvinist, evangelical types, non-denominational, etc. Um, almost universally they all fell away from the faith. They've almost all de quotequote deconstructed, right? Well, that's precisely because of this view of Christ, their view of the church, their view of the purpose, the telos of humanity um is completely distorted. It's completely distorted. And so because of that um they don't have an answer for it. So because they don't have an answer for it, they're they're moving towards this accuminism that includes atheists.
It's just insane. It's just insane. Um, Ultravoid, real quick before we get going. Uh, Ultravoid can't build that mega church if you push back. So true.
Yeah, of course. Yeah, Rhythm Church is a mega church 100%. Got to make those six figures. Got to How do I monetize?
Yo yo yo, my rap career is just taking off. I'm 37 years old and it's just taking off. I'm Brussel, >> bro. It's seven. It's seven figures, Nikolai.
>> Seven. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
>> You got to step up your game, bro. He said seven figures.
>> Eight. Eight figures is what I really meant. But um Paul uh can you can you uh can you can you hear me Paul?
I know you requested so I think I can let me let me see if I can get you I'll I'll invite you and see if that works better. There we go.
So okay. Uh but no, yes, you're absolutely correct. Uh this is this is exactly what it is. By the way, I did u message you again. Um uh so you're aware, Octavian, just to check it when you're done with whatever we're doing here. Um but yeah, man, this it is 100% uh this we got to build culture, man.
And but what they mean by build culture is they mean let me take this kind of secularized like a humanist like blob and like make it into this like thing that we can all like love Jesus together even if you don't believe in Jesus. Like that's essentially what they're doing with this guy right now. They're like, "Hey, we know that you don't believe in Jesus, but man, you really you really speak to us. You really speak to Well, there's no >> there's no spirituality in in the whole, you know, situation like what what they're saying like even, how should I put it? Um, and this goes back to the whole theological perspective of the pur Puritans uh and even reformed stuff like it's so legalistic >> and so you know like it removes spirituality out of it and it and the that void is filled by passion, right?
And you hear him say it all the time, like I passionately love Jesus. Like I love Jesus. I, you know, and it's all passion and this like fake emotion type stuff.
>> And I mean to Jay's point, it's it's a spirituality problem and all and also a theological problem. But if you if you listen to these guys, they're trying to talk about like the surface theology.
However, this the you know the spiritual void is filled with you know I passionately love Jesus type stuff and it's so cringe.
>> Yes. And and again do you Octavian do you love Jesus?
>> He's my creator, my mediator, my savior.
I I worship Jesus.
>> Well and in a sense like I don't mean it in the >> Oh, of course.
>> Yeah. Love Jesus. But what they mean by love is this kind of he's my boyfriend Jesus, >> right?
>> Which is >> take the wheel.
>> Jesus take the wheel. Yeah. It's like uh it's it's absolutely um did you Okay, I got to ask. I don't know how many of you guys were uh uh for the audience, for the people in the chat, um remember that song in evangelical circles that went around? It was like huge like a rose trampled on the ground. You guys remember that song?
>> Yes. Yes, I do.
>> I hated that song because they had like my my church would like have this whole like like you had to like sign it like we signed it because we had this person that was deaf at our church. So, everyone would like in in unison sign this like rose and then we'd like crush it in our hand or something like that. I can't remember. It's been a long time.
And and we'd go like this and I was like, "Oh my lord, I hated every moment of it." And the thing is is that I believed in Jesus all through those years, but something about the churches that I grew up in were just so cringe that I just couldn't get beyond it. And I never grew spiritually. I never deepened my faith in a meaningful level other than heady knowledge. I had head knowledge. Like I knew all the arguments about Jesus. Like I knew all the arguments to defend my faith, but it wasn't spiritual growth, right? There wasn't actual love.
In the way that we understand love, it was it was you have to have a relationship with Jesus. What is what the hell does it even mean? And how does one have a relationship with Jesus? They that they can't answer because that's a work because relationships require work.
And you can't have works. That would that would make it a worksbased salvation. it has to be this faith alone relationship which makes no sense because that's not how that doesn't reflect a real relationship even in our lives in our marriages you know >> last thing I'm going to say and I'm I'm going to jump back in the chat um a great example of what you're just saying and the whole uh sort of uh legalistic like pros and cons type of mentality uh Protestantism has >> you know instead of the healing sort of church's hospital is that I asked and this is family. This is like a survey I did family and friends that are Protestants.
>> Yeah. I would have certain questions like, "Hey, why would would you lie about, you know, your cousin doing this or would you not or would whatever, you know, >> and all of them chose to lie to protect or whatever or some of them said, no, I will not lie." And you know, the follow-up question was like, "Well, why would you not lie in this situation?"
And none of them across the board mentioned God or it's, you know, commandments or God doesn't mean a lie.
It was always like something about for my benefit or to protect this relationship or to you know what I'm saying?
>> Yeah.
>> So when you when you think about it, it's all like pros and cons, profit versus loss, you know? It's never like, hey, God doesn't want me to do this. I'm not going to do it.
>> So there's no fundament there are no fundamentals. There's no like uh the house is built on sand is what I'm trying to say.
>> All right, that's all I got for tonight, man. Hey, I I'll jump back in the chat.
>> God bless you. Thanks, Octavian. It's always a pleasure to have you uh chime in. Um >> same here, man. I'll message you tomorrow. I want to give you a thoughtful answer, so I'll message you tomorrow.
>> Thank you. Because I actually have something coming up soon and I want to get feedback on it. Um >> so cool. Thank you. Um Paul, Paul, did you did it is it working yet? Paul, I know you wanted to hop in because you sent super chats earlier to want to talk about the uh about your um uh your evangel uh evangelical uh evangelism efforts with atheists.
So feel free um in the meantime while we wait for that >> for and engaging with >> mistreated in society >> is a the downstream effect.
>> Oh wait I had a um super chat. Here we go. Uh $5. Octavian is the it's only a problem from your worldview. From their worldview it's a flex. That's true.
Ultravoid 100% true. And guys, thank you um for the likes. Thank you for everyone who's stuck around. You guys didn't need to do that, but you guys have been a huge blessing today. Um just wanted to hammer that home. Uh yeah, guys, just uh let's see if Paul bedtime bro hush tones.
Um okay, guys, we'll continue to go.
Hold on.
>> Or or the way as would describe a u Christianish value. So to to even make the statement that hey you should care for fill in a blank marginalized group.
You should care about the poor. You should care you should care that same sex attracted people aren't being mistreated right that that in and of itself is is actually the downstream effects of a Christian worldview because if we remove the Christian worldview and you go to places where there is no Christian worldview uh there is no permeation of Christianity when you bring up matters of sexuality.
>> Good night altervoid. Thank you for your generosity tonight. It was very much appreciated.
>> Poverty might is right. uh if you if you don't align with these views that we have I'm talking about I'm talking about completely no Christian voice I'm not talking about Sweden I'm talking about those nations I'm talking about completely void Christians >> I'm not going to grant that >> you're not gonna grant that I I mean I'm I'm not a I'm not an anthropologist I'm sure I could sift through the weeds and find you know pagan communities that were generous and kind and you know loved their neighbor better than the surrounding Christian nations but I'm I'm not interested in having a pedantic squabble about you know a theological um blank measuring contest about who gets to take the credit for a good and happy world um I I just want my Christians to strive to facilitate that. Like >> notice how he talks about that. He says my Christians as if he's building up this kind of like pseudo like Blake and uh Einson says, "I lowkey have never sent a message in Jay's chat."
It's totally fine for you. You guys can do whatever you want.
Um I have no problem with Jay. Everyone knows my position on Jay. I like Jay a lot. Jay's always been very nice to me.
But uh um again, I'm also not in his position, so I can't I can't really talk further about that. So um that being said, let's continue here.
>> You don't get any bonus points for saying, "Hey, we're doing better than our Muslim country neighbors." I just want you guys to be to do the best you can.
>> Yeah, I I think we are doing better than our Muslim country neighbors for the fact. That's data. I'm sorry. We I'm not gonna back down on that. But two, uh what I'm saying is >> Jordan beats us in hospitality.
>> Fine. Uh and and and gay people get hung in all over the Muslim world. Okay. So, uh and they get treated best in the West. Um I'm saying that's the downstream effect of a Christian worldview. Uh so when when it's like the conversation comes down to, hey, uh we have these differences, the the part that I think for the Christian is, yeah, we're not going to budge on these things.
>> Yeah. See, see what makes him an atheist is that he doesn't like the fact that Christianity makes exclusiv exclusivity claims.
They're mean to gay people. They're and and he has this kind of like socially liarted position.
He has this uh he's a so he's a social liberal.
see here. Yeah, there we got no no callins yet, guys. So, if you guys want to call in, it's the links down below.
>> So, how do we because I think that's what you were asking. How do we articulate hard truth without saying we're going to budge on this? We're gonna water this down. How can I love the person I disagree with without saying, "But I'm not going to uh bless something that is not blessed in scripture." And is that even possible, I guess?
>> Um, yeah. What's the standard for treating people better in his worldview?
It's purely subjective based on each own's feelings. Yeah. If you're an atheist and you don't believe in God, it's completely subjective.
Completely intersubjective.
So, it's a it's a ludicrous position.
>> Yes. From your perspective.
>> Can I can I frame it this way? Yeah. So part of being evangelical, I'm assuming most of you are, except maybe the five Mormons in the back. We're glad you're here is it is one of the four doctrines of being evangelical is sharing the good news. That's a part of who I am. So if I'm going to be authentic to who I am, I'm going to look for opportunities to share the faith. When you said your life is the best witness and yet a part of who I am is hopefully my life is a good witness, but it includes speaking truth that has eternal implications. How do we balance that in a way where you and others would go, "Okay, I get it. You're being true to who you are. You're loving me." where we speak truth and yet really care about you. That's the tension I think we're wrestling with.
>> That's a good tension.
>> What is the core of your gospel? Not your gospel, but the gospel that you believe in.
>> Are you really asking me that?
>> Is it hell? Is it the Ten Commandments?
Is it hope for the afterlife? Or is it Christ?
>> You want to know what the answer is now?
Uh Jared, I hope he answers. I hope this guy right here answers this appropriately.
Um, my answer would be it's all of that.
It's all of that.
Yes, hell is a reality. Theosis, Christ enables theosis. It's union with God.
It's heaven. It's paradise. It's all of these things.
And the consequences of not uniting yourself to God is hell. So it's it's a very weak it's a very weak thing to do. It's very weak.
>> Major on the majors, minor on the minors. That was something that Dr. Brown taught me. Um I've determined to know nothing except Christ and Christ crucified. And I think that that should be your starting place in any place. If I were to give, you know, unsolicited advice, you know, from fair, we want to know what you think.
>> I I I I don't know how um >> I should prepare better. I I I don't know how to to um you understand >> what is Christ crucified?
What is Christ crucified?
Like once again, uh Bobby uh Bobby just says, "Did he not answer?"
Not really.
Um and and also this guy never really responded. He never really pushed back on that. What I can say is that what does it mean for Christ to be crucified? Christ to be crucified would mean following his commands. That means, "Sorry, bro. We're not going to be nice to the gays."
Sorry. Sorry. We're not going to be nice to the gays. The gays have to go back where they are in the closet. We're not going to be nice to them. Uh, it's degenerate. It's wrong. I don't know why these guys keep on trying to push this stuff on us, but uh, we're not going to accept it. Jesus hates the gays. Like like I don't know what to say, dude.
Like get over yourself.
He's intellectualized himself so much that he's just like it's all about being nice, but there's no standard for niceness in his position. Like exet said earlier in the chat.
It is it's just such a slimy tactic that he's engaging in. Let me get let me get uh L Trump impression. Don't do that again. Nikolai, too late. I'm gonna do it again. I'll do it all all the times that I want. Just because you said that, I'm going to do it again next stream just because you said it again.
>> I understand because it's the same tension. It's the same tension um that >> you know that that Jehovah's Witnesses feel like how do you how do you coach Jehovah's Witnesses Jehovah's Witness from authentically living out their faith believing that you are going to be destroyed in the apocalypse? How do you say, "Hey, I'm I'm you know, rooting for you and I want you to do that well."
When you just believe that like that that's not going to be happening. I don't think that you're going to be destroyed by Jehovah. um here in the apocalypse. And so I I I don't know how to coach my evangelical friends. You know, how do I lovingly and politely, you know, explain eternal conscious torment to people? I I don't know how to give advice on that.
>> That's fair. I think the tension is Jehovah's Witnesses have a salvation by works faith.
>> Well, they would they wouldn't say that.
Well, right. But not from from their viewpoints, right? I mean, I would say that um >> by the way, nobody believes that salvation comes through works alone. No one believes it. Everybody believes in works. So does this guy. Everybody does.
They're the ones that make this even money. You should learn from Shane Gillis. You know, if I listen to enough of his impression, I'm actually able to replicate it pretty decent, but I haven't done it in such a line.
Mr. Bro, that account I would allow a follow and have notifications on, bro.
>> Yeah. I mean, that's what we're talking about, right? is, hey, I believe that from your viewpoint, you believe that my soul is damned. So, you know, how do I coach you through your your viewpoint of saying, "Hey, just want to let you know, bud. I personally believe that you're screwed." Like, I don't I don't know I don't know how to coach my Christian friends through that. Um, in the same way that I don't know how to coach uh Yeah. Yeah. other people.
>> And maybe everybody's not necessarily the same. It's not like if we have this formula, >> no closet, no beards, just statemanditated conversion therapy. Yeah, we'll do that.
Guys, pray for Jared. He's gone many different churches in his odd series and the only one so far that he's been had a glowing impression of was the Orthodox church. Yes, pray for him. But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, there's only so much we can do. Like at the end of the day, if he's if he is dedicated to his we got to be nice to the gays, there's not much we can do because Orthodoxy will not speak to him any more than anyone else because we have a no tolerance policy for that. Period. End of story. So that's a tall order for him to get over, right?
>> Well, it works with every atheist.
Obviously, that's not the case. Pen Gillette famously is like, "If you share Jesus with me, that's an act of love."
At least he said, "Because you care about me and my eternal, you know, destiny." So having some formula that just magically works for atheists is just part of the takeaway of this is it's just not that simple. It's going to take wisdom, genuine heart of care for somebody. And if we speak from that and the person knows that they're loved, probably more likely than not, it's going to land well. if claims about hell and the afterlife can ever land well.
>> Right. Right. Yeah. Because there's certain there's certain things that are just hard. There's certain aspects that are hard. And so we live in a society where authenticity is often the northstar virtue. Right. And it's like uh which is not for the Christian. The northstar virtue is truth, right? And love. And so if we're in a society where everybody wants it should be embraced as your true authentic self except the Christian when we say no Jesus has something greater for you than your true authentic self. He has a new self for you. That now we're now it's oil and water, right? And we're so we're saying you as a as an atheist is mature in that you can go into Christian spaces where you already know that we're settled on the homosexuality question. like there's no persuading us yet. You know that hopefully you believe that you bring in someone in our orbit and they're going to be love and treated with dignity and respect and honor, right? So there's this tension we live in. And so what I'm saying is is that enough or do do we need to do better? Like help me understand that part.
>> I don't know that I know how to answer that. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair because I think there there lies like there's there's just like in the earlier >> So there it goes. That's it. That's the pro that I mean that that is what it is guys, right?
Um, Rouselon actually ended up like pushing back in my opinion as best as he could at the very end there, but uh, yeah, it's pretty pretty low tier.
I'll give you another chance here. I keep on inviting you, Paul. I don't know if you know how to accept the invite, but it was a decent question that I mean, that one was pretty decent >> conversation we had with the Catholic and the Orthodox friends. Like there's just some fault lines that we're we're not gonna we're not going to find alignment on. And that's okay. And it's good that we know, okay, here's here's a hard line. The atheist is just going to think you're a bigot because you hold to a biblical sex sex, right? Is that fair?
>> Well, I mean, that's not my position, but you're which I'm saying the general perspective because you're you're like the the new iteration of of the atheist, right? But I still have friends. I still No, I'm No, I mean, >> you're the new new atheist.
>> You're the new new atheist >> because because you're not angry, but but I still have friends that that are atheists that I love and I hang out with that are way more angry. And it always always comes back to the sex question.
Not always. I mean, forgiveness great.
>> I mean, it came up in this conversation.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I But I mean, >> so actually this is where Rouselong is actually I'm glad Rouselon is pushing back, but where was all this push back the entire time?
Uh, Miss says he doesn't have much foundation to push back though. Half of his Protestant churches are homoaffurbing. Yes. But again, um I'm glad that he's actually doing it on that level. So again, we we can all hate on Rouselon all we want. We can mock the we can mock the six figures.
How am I going to get my six figures, right? Um we can all mock that, but at the end of the day, this was a pretty decent push back from him and saying, "Listen, at the end of the day, like we like this is our position and like what are like what are we supposed like what are how are we supposed to do that?" and he's his answer, the atheist, is just to say, "Oh, I don't know."
>> Listen, that's that's not the end- all beall, right? Um it's a particularly thorny question that I'm very passionate about. I want my gay friends to be well, and I don't believe that a conservative view on >> my him saying that makes it feel make me feel that he's not actually homosexual.
He's just a very sensitive boy who has gay friends. So, I was I think I might have been correct in saying that maybe it that he has close friends and he's like he's an empath and because he's an empath, he's like, I can't I can't see why my gay friends who are really nice to me could possibly go to hell, spend eternity in hell. Like, that's that's essentially >> on that is is well for them, right? And so, can we just hold a conservative viewpoint on sexuality and still be good with the gays and the atheists?
I I mean I I don't I don't think so because if you're coming at it from an atheistic point of view then I don't see what sort of like uh rational argument you have against homosexuality and so it would probably >> What do you mean it doesn't confer any survival benefit and if you're an atheist and most likely believe in evolution and if you believe in evolution then what reason is there for you to uh hold anything else right come on it's ridiculous it's absolutely It's absolutely asinine. This is an asinine.
Uh Danny Town says, "Bro starts stammering when he actually gets pressed." Yep, exactly. I want my gay friends to be well. Okay, then tell them their lifestyle is killing human birth rates. Well, also tell them their lifestyle is killing them. Uh homosexuality is a absolutely devastating lifestyle on most people.
Um, so I mean that's what that's what I'll say about that.
Uh, we didn't get You know what, guys?
I'm going to call uh No one wanted to call in. We met the goal, but no one's calling in. I'm I'm going to do last last call for people to call in while we finish off this video. Last call. Okay.
Um uh and we're going to see what that uh we're going to see where that leads us.
Okay. Um but whoops. I just totally closed my client.
Whoopsies. on sexuality and still be good with the gays and the atheists.
I I mean I I don't I don't think so because if you're coming at it from an atheistic point of view then I don't see what sort of like >> Mr. office says you're also like nine times higher ST rates uh average life year a seven-year life expectancy drop more likely to be homeless more likely to be mentally ill more likely to be drug addicted by the way it's a absolute cluster F of a lifestyle completely 100% true >> uh rational argument you have against homosexuality and so it would probably come down to bigotry I I grant that for evangelicals it doesn't have to come from a place of bigotry it can come from a place of sincerely saying hey I you know maybe quietly I say like I don't really want this to be the case but I believe that the text says this and I'm kind of walked into this position. I don't think that makes you a terrible person. Right. So, um, if you're an atheist and you're saying, "Hey, I don't think that gay people should be, you know, >> I'm using this example because I do think someone could be a pro-life atheist."
>> Sure. And the proife question for me.
Um, >> yeah. And I keep looking at the clock. I know that we're over. Yeah, we're over. I'm letting this sit because I think this is good.
>> Am I good? Am I okay?
>> Yeah. You got any good?
>> I can Can I Can I Can I beg for five more minutes? You >> please. Five more minutes. How about we do one more question you asked me and Sean anything you want to ask?
>> Is that what you wanted to find for?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask one last question. Okay.
>> Uh why are they presupposing evangles all have the same views on homosexuals?
They don't. It's not even close to unified. Not even close. Bobby Joe. Um not even close. Um see here.
Why can nobody hear me? Oh, no. You don't have to pay for You don't have to pay for that. Here, let me follow you back and maybe just try and give you a chance. I keep on accepting you as uh Sometimes X just acts funky.
Let me try and get you invite to speak.
You know what? I'll even invite you as a co-host and see if that works. Okay. You might have to like completely shut off the app and rejoin it. You might have to do that. Okay. But let's finish listening to this while we get figure out what you guys are doing.
>> What would you do tomorrow if you found out Christianity categorically is not true?
>> What would you do if you found the corpse of Christ?
>> If I found the what of Christ?
>> If you found the corps of course of Christ.
>> Like seriously, what would I do tomorrow?
>> What would you do?
>> I would quit my job.
>> Okay.
>> Uh actually they would fire me.
>> I would obviously probably tomorrow I would sit down with my family. Now if they found the bones of Christ, this would kind of change the whole McDow family like not just me, right? So that would it's versus me leaving versus them finding the bones of Jesus.
>> Hold on, guys. I'm getting a call from the wife.
Well, guys, uh I hate to do this to you, but my wife just told me that her father has to get to the hospital, so there's an emergency, so I have to get going.
Um, this was very sudden. I was not expecting this. I was hoping to get Paul in. Paul, I promise you next time you hop into the chat, you will have first dibs, okay? Um, when it comes to uh to to me engaging with you on this, whether it's X or a call-in space, I'm very sorry about this, but this came out of nowhere. And um the wife takes priority and family takes priority, guys. So, um, now he's probably fine, but my wife seems concerned, so I have to hurry up and comfort the wife and make sure she doesn't have a freaking aneurysm. And you know, you know how women are hysterics. So, his name is Hichch.
Hichch. So, you can um pray for Hich.
So, God bless, guys. Have a wonderful day, you guys. Thank you for everyone who showed up in the stream. Um, have a wonderful day and uh I'll see you on the next one. All right, guys. Thanks for everyone who uh subscribed and liked.
God bless.
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