The Carlin brothers provide a sophisticated structuralist reading that elevates Rowling’s world-building into the realm of classical allegory. Their Dantesque interpretation successfully transforms a familiar fantasy setting into a profound exploration of narrative architecture and human mortality.
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Chapter 34: The Department of Mysteries | Order of the PhoenixAdded:
Welcome, dear listeners. I'm Jonathan Carlin.
>> And I'm Benjamin Carlin, >> and we invite you to join us through the Gryffindor, your one-way ticket to the enchanting world of Harry Potter. So, grab your wands and dust off your broomsticks and join us as we unlock the dark corridors inside Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 34, The Department of Mysteries. And it has never been truer that we are unlocking the dark corridors today.
>> Today is the day. This is the day.
>> This Yeah, it's like for the the phrase that you chose for for Order of the Phoenix all throughout for the first 33 chapters have all been to build up to this moment.
>> To this moment. Exactly. We are there at long long long long long last. Um, and you know, so looking at the chapter art right away, I mean, I find it to be fully and completely iconic. What we've got here is is young Harry standing in front of a wall of glass orbs and he is holding the prophecy.
>> I mean, that's literally what I wrote down. I was like, this like one of the most iconic moments. This is a clip we use in our videos all the time. and Harry grabbing the prophecy like it is in on the one hand it's like Voldemort's plan worked on the other hand it's like Harry is literally grabbing his destiny you know >> I mean yeah I got chills as you said that I mean it's yeah put 12 out of 10 artwork um and it couldn't and shouldn't be anything else and the thing that I think really stands out to me about this chapter art in particular is that um it's like it's not going to be until the very very very last page that it will say the words he lifted the glass ball down from its shelf and stared at it.
That is that is the chapter art and it is the second to last sentence of the chapter before uh Lucius Malfoy steps in. Um and this to me is just like a take notes Goblet of Fire the first task because the first task in Goblet of Fire is like the probably my least favorite chapter art of all of it.
>> All of it.
>> And it's so irritating because the first task is also one of my favorite chapters.
>> Yeah. like in the whole series. Yes.
Like AIO Firebolt, fighting the Hungarian horn tail, catching the golden egg, all that type of stuff. And yet the chapter art for that one is the one that we like we really rad over the coals because it's like someone's like disembodied hands reaching out to catch a book and it's like the end of the summoning charms lessons that we're being showed and it's like, >> you know, it's so frustrating because like we already know the first task is dragons. Hagrid has already showed him to Harry and it's sort of like like maybe on some level you don't want to go spoilery but Harry standing on a giant rock holding his firebolt above his head would be so sick you know >> I mean yes that would have been great that that you're right Harry holding the firebolt above his head like he just caught it >> yes exactly >> yeah or or just just the you know the >> Harry from right behind the dragon's head you know like he's being stared at down through the dragon >> just you know just Harry >> flying above the dragon you know like there's so many other things it could have been it doesn't need to be Harry collecting the egg you know >> right right yes >> there's suspense >> there's suspense absolutely so it's it's also very frustrating but I all I could think is that the idea there is like don't give away spoilers with the chapter art >> you know what it could have been it could have been Harry holding the model that would have been great too >> that would have been great because the model is something I'm obsessed I know.
I love the model of the horn tail. It's so cool.
>> It's like part of, you know, if you were to look at this like almost as if it was like an RPG or something, it'd be like in his inventory. Like it doesn't do anything, but it would sort of be like this iconic little trophy that like you the character because you're playing through this game gets to like hold, you know, and it's just it's >> it's like a cosmetic. It >> it's it's a cosmetic. Exactly. Yes. like maybe he can um maybe he can now equip like dragon skin uh robes or something like that, you know, because he's defeated in I mean not slay a dragon but defeated a dragonated dragon >> in combat. So anyway, the thing I think is interesting about this is that like I mean granted we don't know what the Hall of Prophecies looks like at this point as the chapter begins. We are still in the forbidden forest but like just by looking at the chapter art once you get to the room with all the dusty orbs you know he is going to pick it up because you've already seen it in the chapter arts. you know it's coming and it's like and I don't care. I don't care at all.
Like >> it's like it's not even a surprise. Like of course he's he's not going to get there and be like nah.
>> You know like you've read a book before.
>> Yeah. It's like he walked in the Hall of Prophecies. Harry was pretty sure he shouldn't pick it up. So they left.
>> Yeah. He was like you know what Sirius isn't even here guys. I think this is a bad situation.
>> Hermione you were right. I have aired.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
Cuz it's like it'd be what would be funny is like if he decided that like one second later it would be like Imperio, you know, like they're there.
>> They're there. Yes, exactly. I mean, if Yeah, you're right. Like it's like Lucius is sort of like just he's itching to say the Imperio spell, you know? He's just like he's sort of like, "All right, well, if he doesn't pick it up on us, he did." Yeah.
>> Classic Potter.
>> Now, granted, that wouldn't work either because even Voldemort's Imperious curse doesn't work on Harry. So, uh I don't think that would work, but they're there. They could probably easily, you know, capture the other five and be like, "All right, we're going to kill them if you don't pick that up."
>> There there's a way. There's a way that Yeah. I mean, once once they're in the Hall of Prophecies, that prophecy is being lifted one way or another. Um, so anyway, uh, fantastic chapter art.
Absolutely love it. Uh, but so without any further ado, Jay, let's dive on into the chapter. Would you like to read the first sentence for us?
>> Yes. Yes. I mean, speaking of dragons, you know, Harry wound his hand tightly into the mane of the nearest Thestral, placed a foot on the stump nearby, and scrambled clumsily onto the horse's silken back, and then the dragons arrived. Oh, even better rides. Okay, never mind. I'm getting off this. We can see these. We can see these. I know.
Yeah, that that's what I love when Elos be like the the dragons just sort of like land in the forest and like lower their necks, you know? It's like this this time the dragons arriving feels like it's like in aid as if like the dragons have like their own, you know, like the thestrals have the ability to know direction. I feel like the dragons have the ability to know like right from wrong and they're like they're like, "Yes, yes."
>> They're like, "Let's go.
>> Our our our boy our our boy HP needs us to know.
You know what's really wrong? You were going to ride those dumb death horse things." And that's a that's a that's a moral we that you know that's an insult to us dragons.
>> Right. Right. Yes. Yes. So, probably a flock of Welsh greens.
>> Flock of Welsh greens. I like to think >> that's what it almost has to be. Right.
>> Or or you know the the the occasional habitian black, you know, which is known to live in this very specific area, >> which is known. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. It's like, you know, all of a sudden a castle-sized dragon lands beside Harry, and Harry riding the sheer symbol of Hogwarts castle, arrives at the Ministry, crushes it, >> crushes it, >> lands in there. Lucious Malfoy comes out looking terrified, blast of fire, his mask melts onto his face. Allah the golden crown from >> Game of Thrones.
>> Oh, the Yes, exactly.
>> You know, it pro the thing is though, it doesn't kill him. He's just like horribly disfigured for the rest of the series.
>> Oh, it's almost like a worm tail like a worm tail situation like adornment, you know? It's like you It's like Lucius, you've gone so far you can't remove the mask.
>> Can't remove the mask. Exactly. You're exposed permanently.
>> Okay. So, this is this is almost like our what if Harry Potter was way darker?
>> Oh, yeah. Right. Right. What if Harry had a real like um inglorious bastards approach to the Death Eaters? It's like now after the war, you're going to take that mask off, aren't you?
>> That's right. Yeah, >> but we just upped the violence level from like two to like 11.
>> Yeah, we can't have that.
>> No, no, no, no. Um anyway, so obviously the dragons don't actually arrive, but um we do have a very funny exchange going on here. Uh because you know there there's a few things that we've got. Uh Harry is is trying trying to climb onto the back of the the which he can easily do because he can in fact see them. Um and I like this because it says and it's going to set us up for a conversation later. It did not object but twisted its head around fangs beared and attempted to continue its eager licking of his robes.
>> I got to tell you what, if like I don't know anything bared its fangs at me and then tried to lick me, I would be pretty freaked out. Not not the least of which is that the thing that it's licking is blood.
>> It has blood. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But otherwise, I do think that there's like a big golden retriever energy going on with the Thestral here. I mean, there is a little bit of that. But even if my own golden retriever turned its head and was just like and started like licking blood off me, I'd be like, "Okay, let's Okay, Rover. Let's just back off a bit."
>> Rover, is that what you would name your golden retriever?
>> Not ever.
>> A new a new head cannon forever and for always. Jay has an imaginary friend and it's a golden retriever named Rover.
>> Yeah. Nope. Nope. We're going to change that name.
>> If you guys see us on tour, be like, "Is it okay if I pet Rover?"
>> Yeah. I'll be like, "He's right here.
>> He's right He's right here."
Unfortunately, Jay, you may resist this, but it is now part of the team.
>> I know. I understand. I understand.
>> Yeah. That's how things work.
>> That's how things work. When you say them on the internet and there's a large audience listening, it's okay. It's okay. You can pet Rover. Um, here's what else is part of the cannon, which I don't feel like gets brought up enough, Ben. Okay. Are you ready for this sentence right now?
>> I can't wait.
>> Okay. Okay. Neville had heaved himself over the back of the next thestral and was now attempting to swing one short leg over the creature's back. Like I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
How How short are Neville's legs? Then we need to mention it in this sentence.
>> It is the tiny little legs. It's it's it's like is Neville like astonishingly short?
>> I like it cuz maybe this is like movie bias and they're just like oh yeah the actor ended up being really tall but canonically he's like a short man.
>> Yeah. You know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Short king.
>> Short king. He is like Yeah. He he can barely reach his leg over that horse there. He's just like >> I mean the inclusion I mean it's Yeah.
It's the inclusion of the word because like it wouldn't it would you would not blink an eye if it just said was now attempting to swing one leg over the creature's back, >> right? Like I would just believe that Neville as a perfectly normalsized human is clumsy enough to have trouble getting on a horse because Neville's been described as clumsy since page one of Neville's entrance to the story.
>> Exactly. Yes. So it's it's sort of like there's there's almost no need for this inclusion. But now we all need to remember that Neville is in fact quite short. Quite short. Quite short indeed.
>> Yes. Uh then we're then we're going to also have another little interesting setup for the rest of the chapter which I think is just like a really fun element to this particular character. Uh Luna was already in place sitting side saddle and adjusting her robes as though she did this every day.
>> Mhm.
>> This is effectively going to be how Luna is for the rest of this evening. The rest of this is Luna's chapter. This is the Hermione stops being right about everything. Luna starts being right about everything chapter.
>> It's very unusual. Yeah. Because it's like it almost feels like, okay, so this is what Dumbledore means when he's like, um, I didn't want your hot head to get in the way of your good heart. Like Harry's hot head is at the forefront today, which is very ironic because if you think like brain versus heart, I would assign brain to Hermione and heart to Luna, you know, like in terms of like character. Um, and and maybe maybe I'm even talking myself out of this argument because maybe he is like it's almost like his hot heart is overriding his good brain in this chapter is is a little what's going on cuz he's in full protection mode over Sirius. But it's almost like logic from Hermione's perspective is not what is needed on this particular occasion.
>> Right. You need like Luna's particular brand of open-minded wisdom to navigate the department of mysteries.
>> Yeah. Exactly. And maybe that's part of it is that like like there is a mysterious wisdom because I mean even with that exact word choice is like Luna is a true Ravenclaw. Exactly. And so it's wisdom like the hat sees it within her even if it's an unusual brand. Yeah.
So Luna is going to be right for a lot of this chapter. She will also not be afraid at any point.
>> And it's like it is very impressive to me because like you know they've had largely minimal training. She is one of the younger participants, you know, next to Jenny, uh, in terms of being like going out there. And here she is just sort of like casually hopping onto the back of a Thestral, which everyone else is either struggling with or afraid of.
Right. And as the chapter continues, she's going to be able to keep just sort of like a calm, cool, quirky demeanor.
>> Yes. Yeah. Luna is a very valuable member of the group. And right starting right away with this first description, it's like yeah, she's already just like not even concerned about she's riding side saddle, you know.
>> Right. Yes. Yeah. It's sort of like >> and they're about to be flying at I want to say over 150 m an hour.
>> Yeah. I think we canonically know.
>> Canonically know.
>> Yes. Exactly. Yep. Uh and we'll get to that in just one minute. Uh but so then you've got Ron, Hermione, and Jenny. Um, this is another dichotomy that we're going to see throughout the chapter is sort of the Luna, Harry, and Neville split versus the uh Ron, Hermione, and Jenny split a little bit because you do have the first three uh capable of seeing the Thestrals and like sort of like immediately going and hopping on.
So, all three of them already on the Thestrals and then obviously no fault of Ron, Hermione, or Jinnies, but they can't see them.
>> They can't see them. And it's a semi- similar split when they get to the death chamber. That's exactly what I meant.
Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Um and yeah, so it says that they're staring open mouthed uh probably very confused because even from their perspective, not only can they not see the the girls, but you know, Neville is throwing his short leg over nothing as far as they can tell.
Luna is sitting side saddle on nothing, right? You know, Harry's perched up there like a hero on nothing, >> right? They're just floating in midair from their point of view, >> right? Yeah, that's exactly right. So Ron's like, "How are we supposed to get on when we can't see the things?" It feels like an earnest question from Ron.
It does. It does. And Luna's like, "I'll help." Oh, it's easy.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Marching over to him. Yeah. She's like, "Oh, do you need help, Ronald?"
>> Yeah. Exactly. I'm on it. It's like, "Let me help Ron first.
>> Let me help Ron first." Yeah. Ron marching over. Hermione, Jinny, come here. Yeah. Uh, which is marching over to him. Hermione and Jinny, come here.
She pulled them over to the Threshs, standing around them, managed to help them onto the backs of their mounts. All three looked extremely nervous. Yep.
Absolutely. She's just like, "All right, now these are the mains. Grip tightly.
Uh, there you go. Don't let go at all.
It's going to go fast." I know. This is also like I mean, I definitely can feel for them as this unfolds because it's like Harry can see it. You know, he's got like his his like legs like nicely notched underneath the wings or whatever. and he is going to like tip forward a couple of times on the Thestral and and be spooked by its speed and impressed and everything. It's like the rest of them have nothing.
>> They have nothing. They just have to like hope. And like I love Harry also has not one concern that they cannot see them. He is just like you are just going to have to deal with it guys. Okay. Like seriously Sirius is about to die and we need to go. So, just deal with the fact that you can't see your super speedy mount thing over there. All right? Cuz Ron is be like, "Ah, if I could just see it." And he's like, "Well, you better hope it stays invisible, Ron. Now, deal with it. We got to go."
Yeah. Which which mild foreshadowing. It won't. It won't. Well, well, okay. So, there there is a little bit of like interest in here because obviously what Harry is saying in this particular situation is like, "You better hope it stays invisible because if it doesn't, it means one of us died, right?" you know, or that we're going to witness a death tonight, which on the whole is something you don't want to do. And the what's kind of interesting about this is that like a death will happen tonight in the form of serious spoilers. Um, but Ron and Hermione are both decidedly not there for it.
>> They're not there for it.
>> They are not there for it. Hermione is unconscious from the Doahof purple spell. Okay. And Ron has been attacked by the brains. Is in a different room.
The only people in there are Neville and Harry. Where is Jenny?
>> Jenny broke her ankle.
>> Jenny broke her ankle. You're right. So, no one knew gets to see Thestrals.
>> No one knew gets to see Thestrals.
>> Wow. Didn't even think about that.
>> Yeah, it's kind of wild. And so, it's like I don't know at what probably after the Battle of Hogwarts they can see them, but I'm not sure that there's any other instance between now and then that would unlock it.
>> Yeah, you're right. Cuz the only person who's going to die in um Half Blood Prince is Dumbledore.
>> Spoilers.
>> Spoilers. Yeah. by Snape.
>> Snape.
>> Yeah, Snape kills Dumbledore.
>> Double spoilers.
>> Sorry.
>> Didn't see that coming, did you?
>> It's like, you know what? If you're on chapter 34 of a deep dive podcast and and we've definitely said it before, but if that was the moment you got spoiler, I am I just for what it's worth, I am not sorry.
>> Um, >> you had that one coming to you.
>> I just assume at this point in time you're okay with it. Uh, that's that's the reason >> because literally the rest of the story has been spoiled for you.
>> That's right. Yes, we've definitely gone through.
>> Yeah. No. So, they're not going to have a chance to see anybody else die. Will they see anyone die like at the wedding?
Um, no. They get out of there. I don't think you're right. They don't really witness anyone people. There's like a lot of deaths that happen in Deathly Halls, of course, but do they see them happening? H >> I don't I don't think so. So, yeah. Um I mean we we of course could always be overlooking something but um yes we'll have to keep a weather eye out for that but continues to be interesting that Ron Hermione make it through the evening where a death occurs and they are not there to witness it.
>> Right. True. True. Okay. Wow. Very good.
Very good catch there.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
>> Yes. So I guess I'm sorry. Bad foreshadowing then. You better hope it stays invisible. It will.
>> It will. Um okay. Okay. So then Harry's going to look down at the back of the Thral's glossy blackhead and be and say Ministry of Magic Visitors Entrance London. Then uh if you know where to go.
>> And I got to tell you what, he's pretty lucky this just works.
>> He it festrals are mildly OP.
>> They are. They are the deosex machina of the book for sure.
>> They are. They are. I mean I do appreciate the fact that it's not like they were just introduced. Like we've been dealing with them throughout the entire book. And I think that there's like if you really really really wanted to get into like a literary like breakdown of um like why Harry can't see them at the end of Goblet of Fire and why they are so important is because the introduction of the Thestral so early in the story and the fact that they are like what pull the otherwise horseless carriages is like a booklong narrative a class in Hagrid's you know uh or a a subject of Hagrid's class There's so much that bakes them by the time you get to this point, you're not really like all that fussed about it.
>> But the inclusion now is so that this makes sense without the reader being like annoyed that there just happens to be a flight capable horse who can go very fast and has a great sense of direction.
>> I know. I know. Because other I mean other it's like they've done a much better job establishing the thestrals um in this book than like maybe say Fox was in Chamber of Secrets where Dumbledore just sort of exposition dumps all of Fox's amazing powers at you and it's like ah healing powers with their tears that can carry immense loads and their songs make you feel good and then it's like wow what did we need in the Chamber of Secrets. It was like literally every single one of your powers came up in succession.
>> That's exactly it. That's exactly it.
So, we're getting more refined the further into uh into the saga that we get here. So, that's good. That's good.
Um, yeah. So, then it says, "For a moment that his thestral did nothing at all, then with a sweeping movement that nearly unseated him." So, again, it's sort of like imagine Ron, Hermione, and Jinny here. Uh, the wings on either side extended. The horse crouched slowly and then rocketed upward so fast and so steeply that Harry had to clench his arms and legs tightly around the horse to avoid sliding backwards over its bony rum. So glad we got that detail.
>> I know.
>> The bony rump.
>> The bony rump. Great great inclusion.
Good to know >> in the in the greater story. Yeah, we got we got bony rumps and short legs.
And >> these are all vital details.
>> These are things we need to know.
>> We can't do the story without.
>> It says Harry did not think he had ever moved so fast. Okay, that is a really important distinction because Harry owns the Firebolt which can go 150 mph, >> right? Yes. He has like the fastest broom.
>> The fastest broom. And this thing that means is going I mean this is right away too, you know, like on takeoff they are like going like not to 160 in about 2 seconds.
>> That's it. Yeah. You know, so I mean again think about the other three who are just like I know. Like imagine every roller coaster you've ever been on when it's just like 3 2 1, right? Like that's still probably only getting to like 60 mph, >> right? You know. Yeah. Yeah. This is this is 160. This is outrageously fast.
>> Positively uh like excessive horsepower.
>> No, no pun intended. Um well, actually, all pun intended. That was definitely on purpose. Um yeah, but this is also kind of like important because we are flying you know you think about like the journey from platform 9 and 3/4 to which is in London to you know Hogwarts it takes like the day to do it uh you know they they leave and at well I guess they leave at noon and they arrive for like the evening feast right is that correct or >> yeah pretty much they leave at 11:00 get there at about dinner time >> okay okay you know so it's like we have to we have to travel that far this evening on our rescue mission. So, I mean, the idea of going that distance, it's like they need to be going fast otherwise it's also unrealistic, right?
You know?
>> Yeah. So, they need to go pretty fast.
They they I mean, to also also be fair, they could have just used the flu powder back in Umbbridge's office and gotten there like that. Way faster. Even >> lickety split >> lickety split as it were. Lickety that blood split. Um, but they didn't do that because they got thes which are I guess way more fun unless you're Ron or Hermione or Jenny.
>> That's right. That's right. Yeah. This is bizarre. Harry heard Ron yell from somewhere behind him.
>> Bizarre.
>> Yeah. Although I actually like that from Ron because for him it's almost got to be like uh you know I mean he hasn't had the firebolt, you know, so for him he's like wow this is really >> You think he's describing the speed?
>> Yeah. He's like this is it's bizarre going this fast, >> right?
>> Never mind the fact that he uh he doesn't have any visible means of support.
>> He's just up there in his invisible chair, you know.
>> That's right. That is definitely what it's about. It's the invisible chair.
It's It's the next sentence. But um yeah, Harry's arms were wrapped so tightly around his horse's necks as he willed it to go even faster. So now I'm assuming 170. Um how much time had elapsed since he had seen Sirius lying in the Department of Mysteries? Uh how much longer would he be able to resist Voldemort?
>> Well, for so long, like so long.
>> Yeah, >> cuz he's not even there.
>> He's not even there. All Harry knew for sure was that Sirius had neither done as Voldemort wanted nor died. for he was convinced that either outcome would cause him to feel Voldemort's jubilation or fury.
>> Right. Right. Which again brings me back to the question, what is Voldemort actually doing right now, you know?
Yeah.
>> He's got to just be sitting in his meditation pose just imagining torturing Sirius.
>> I mean, yeah. It's like he well I guess at this point in time it's not like anything is like planted in Harry's mind but it's like is Voldemort capable capable of just like sending tension through the airwaves like to make sure that Harry feels like the stress continues.
>> Right. It seems like he must be >> right. Right. Um let's see here. Uh so then it we're kind of getting like a little bit of like an oversight as they uh as they travel over like the Muggle towns down below. Uh on they flew gathering darkness. Harry felt uh face Harry's felt Wow. Harry's face felt stiff and cold. His legs numb from gripping the Thestral side so tightly, but he did not dare shift positions lest he slip. Again, imagine if you can't see him.
>> Imagine if you can't see him. I know >> he was deaf from the thundering in his ears. His mouth was dry and frozen from the rush of the cold night air. Yeah.
He's sort of like, I wish I thought to bring a water bottle.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a scarf or something.
I was illprepared for this journey.
>> I was I was if only maybe someone had brought like that invisibility cloak from the from Umbrage's office.
>> Right. Right. Do you think Luna is still currently side saddle?
>> Yes, I do.
>> She's just like casually like, you know, >> and I'll tell you what, when they get to this part in the show, she better be side saddle.
>> Absolutely. Yeah. No other way would be acceptable.
>> No other way.
>> You have plenty of time to prepare for it. Um, you know, we can figure it out.
I guess find uh find an actress to play Luna who is also like an equestrian expert >> that I mean it almost feels necessary you know.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I love how it says like the still streaking purpose of glow the night or uh the tetras are barely flapping its wings as it sped ever onward which I'm like well it's not even flapping its wings. Where is the speed coming from?
You know >> all I can think is that they're quite light.
>> They must be quite light andor or maybe the speed is like literally like magically generated. Oh, you know, >> well, I like that, too. I like that, too. Like, I mean, this kind of goes back to uh we talked once upon a time like, do broomsticks have cores in the same way that wands do, right? Like, is that like an essential part of like infusing the magic together in order to like make it go? So, it's almost like, is it possible the firebolt has a thestral hair core?
>> Well, it seems like it would go faster.
>> Well, it does seem like it would go faster, I guess. I mean, I can only imagine that the real deal with like an entire mane of Thestal hair probably has a little more ump to it. Well, that's true. You know, like Yeah. But rather than a dislodged one, >> right?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. I would think based on based on the name Firebolt and the means in which Fox travels, maybe they have Phoenix feather cores.
>> Oh, that's a really good point. Okay. I do like that. I do like that. Is there any other I'm trying to think if there's any other like kind of ominous sounding broomsticks that we're aware of that could have a thestral hair, but it would it would seem strange for anything to have one. You know, the Nimbus I think is or the Nimbus 2001 at least in the movies is black.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> Right.
>> I don't know if that really like should should count for anything.
>> I know. I know. I'm wondering like I wonder if my based on name again and just trying to match to other flying things like could like that be like the um what does Madam Maxim have?
>> Oh yes um the Oh man why is if you had >> I know it just a Braxen >> a Braxen.
>> Yes the Braxen cuz they're they're like giant and like through the like if you just saw them flying in the air they could look like a cloud you know like a nimbus. Well, and I, you know, it's funny because even like the way that like the the two um, you know, like schools arrived, I strang like the carriage sort of like floating through like pink clouds with like the powder blue carriage that like in my head that's what I picture. Yeah. You know, so anyway, we're we're off track.
>> We are off track, but that's, you know, whatever. It's okay cuz they even describe the brooms as like Harry's like perhaps it was like horses.
>> You're right. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.
So, flying horses, maybe flying horses somehow involved. Could be >> um or or flightful birds.
>> Flightful birds, which is most of them.
>> This one has a penguin feather, >> right? I guess you could have things like hippogri or something, too, you know? Yeah.
>> There are other flightful animals >> in a way. It almost feels like Madi Moody's broomstick would have a hippogri hair, >> you know, like like a little more like rugged, >> right? Yeah. Gnarly.
>> This is like an off-roading.
>> Yeah.
Like >> this is for allterrain air, you know.
>> Allterrain. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Not quite as fast, but but really like can maneuver.
>> Really good suspension, you know.
>> Oh man. So then we then we get a line here too um where he's like, "If they were too late, he's still alive. He's still fighting. I can feel it."
>> No, you can't.
>> You can't. Um which is really unusual because like Harry's instincts are usually very very good. Yeah. Um, and again, this is this is like the I'm back to hot head, you know? It's like good heart has good good like it's I mean, it's impossible to think that Harry's good heart is not what wins the day, you know? It's like what even in the final duel with Voldemort, he's like pleading with him to like, you know, find remorse within himself. Like, it's it's clearly Harry's heart that drives things. So, this has got to be hotthead.
>> This has got to be I mean, this is probably what Dumbledore is talking about. It's like I was really hoping, you know, like like a couple years ago.
I don't want to like bring up bad memories or anything, but like remember when Sirius died? Like >> all your fault.
>> You got a little hotaded that night.
That's all I'm saying.
>> That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. He never would have been there if you didn't go. So, >> so like was it your fault? Yes. But >> but now's not the moment.
>> Now's not the moment. Okay. I need you to go kill someone else.
>> Right. Right. Right. Yes. Yeah.
>> Harry's having quite the legacy. Um Yeah. Let's see here. U Yeah. If Voldemort decided was not going to crack, I know. Um, and obviously this kind of goes back to what we often times say about Sirius. Sirius would not crack. There's no way.
>> There's no way.
>> Um, but obviously he's not there, so it doesn't really matter. Harry's stomach gave a jolt. Thestral's head was suddenly pointing towards the ground.
He'd actually slid forward a few inches along its neck. They were descending at last.
>> Yeah. So, if you're if Harry, who can see it, slides forward all of a sudden like Yeah. Yeah. Hermione and Ron and Jinny must be like, "Oh my god."
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, which is the next sentence. He heard one of the girls shriek behind him. And with the one thing we can be certain of is that it wasn't Luna. Um so either Jenny or Hermione, >> right?
>> Um yeah, but but then he says uh shriek behind him and he twisted around dangerously but could not could see no sign of a falling body which that would immediately put a damper on the evening.
>> Well, I mean also though like falling body I guess like the the would be going it seems like they're flying downward faster than they would be falling almost, right?
>> Oh yeah, I I would agree with that.
Yeah, like like they can actually like exceed the uh like oh what is it called?
Like >> like 9.8 seconds.
>> 98 m per second squared. Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. Yeah. The force of gravity.
>> The force of gravity. Yes. Exactly.
Okay. Um >> because Yeah. They're moving. They're hurtling towards the pavement. Harry gripped the throat with every last ounce of his strength. Brace for sudden impact, but the horse touched the ground as lightly as a shadow.
>> I love that sentence.
>> I know.
>> It's I mean lightly as a shadow. Oh, it's just it's just wonderful. And it feels for like an invisible creature, it feels like exactly how it would land.
>> It does. And I think I I connected these two sentences like a little bit further down the page when they're talking about everyone else like touching down and says Neville jumped down shaking, but Luna dismounted smoothly, which to me it's like Luna is so like the Thestral in this story. Like they're both introduced in book five and like like she hits the ground just like, "Okay, that was nice." You know, no problem.
Nice and smooth. Just like the Thestral.
and like just like the thestrals just very misunderstood, you know.
>> Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Um yeah. So, uh really really like you know continuation of the the the Luna great chapter that we're having here. Uh we also get a glimpse around the street uh where it says there was an overflowing dumpster still should have still stood a short way away from the vandalized telephone box.
>> Overflowing.
>> Overflowing. Let's just keep that, you know, put a pin in that. We'll come back to it.
>> Yeah. Uh, where do we go from here then?
Um, you know, uh, Luna asked Harry in a politely interested voice. So, again, you know, it's like, not only have you just gone on this like deathdeying flight from Scotland to London, but now we've landed, uh, you know, hopped off the thes and it's sort of like, what do we do now?
>> Politely interested voice when, mind you, the six of them believe that they are there to not fight Death Eaters, but Voldemort.
>> But Voldemort. Exactly. Yes. in order to save Sirius Black, who most of them just believe is still a convict.
>> Yeah. Like even after he dies, Neville's like that man uh Sirius Black was he was he a friend of yours?
>> Yeah. Right. Right. That's how that's like you got to give Neville some major credit here too, you know? It's like he he is sort of like that that bumbling boy who is growing into himself in such a dramatic way. Oh yeah. That like he is willing to join Harry in a battle where he doesn't even really know the person they're trying to save. He's just like, "I got your back.
>> I got your back." Yeah. Next next chapter is going to be a big Neville chapter.
>> Good for Neville.
>> Good for Neville. Um >> Um but so let's see. Uh then here we go.
We're about to get into the phone booth.
But first, Harry took one glance back at the Thestrals now forging for scraps of rotten food inside the dumpster and force himself into the box after Luna.
Now just pay attention to that dumpster, you guys, because we know what Thestrals eat. Okay?
>> We know. We know.
>> We know. Just remember what Thestrals eat and how attracted they were to that blood.
>> I remember. Yeah, I was going to say that golden retriever energy from earlier. Fangs beared playfully licking blood, you know. Yeah. So, we're we're we're getting there. We're getting there quick.
>> Just uh keep an eye on that dumpster.
>> That's right. Uh whoever's nearest to receiver, dial 6442.
Which of course, if you know like how to spell things on like a like a numeric keypad, uh this spells out the word magic.
>> Magic. This is just like magic. It's a good thing they don't change it ever.
>> Uh, then we get the cool female voice that says, "Welcome to the Ministry of Magic. Please state your name and business."
>> Oh, but not before we learn that the receiver dial is a uh rotary phone. Uh, because Ron did it. His arm bent bizarrely to reach the dial as it worded back into place. Okay. All right. Here we go. Do you remember a couple of books ago when Ron tried to call the Derslley's and didn't know how to use it and started shouting into the phone?
>> The f tone.
>> The f tone. Exactly. Ron doesn't know how phones work. He doesn't know how like muggle phones work at all. And I'm going to tell you what, if he doesn't know how to speak into a telephone, he 1 million 10% doesn't know how to dial a rotary phone.
>> Well, all I can think here, Jay, is that at some point in time, Arthur came downstairs and he was like, "Ron, out to the shed. It's time.
>> It's time, my boy.
>> It's time for the talk." And Ron's like, "Oh, no."
>> And so they walk out there and Ron's just like, you know, face beat red, you know, like, "I do not want to do this. I do not want to do this. Dad, can we, you know, and they plop down on a couple of these like, you know, I imagine like uh snap-on tool like bar stools that he's found, you know, he like slides them over, got little roller wheels kind of off the plastic surface on top. You know, he's sitting there at like a bench and he's like, "All right, Ronald." And then he reaches over, pulls out a telephone, slams it on the table. It's like, "Today we learn."
>> Yeah. We're going to learn how to dial this fone.
>> That's He still calls in a fel tone.
>> He still doesn't quite get it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the talk, people. Um, you know, teach your kids.
Uh, let's see here. Uh, so then we get the the really it's kind of hilarious to me how open-minded the cool female voice is here in terms of reacting because it says Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, Hemonic Granger, Jenny Weasley, Never Long Bottom, Luna Loveg Good. We're here to save someone unless your ministry can do it first. Thank you, said the cool female voice. Visitors, please take the badges and attach them to the front of your robes.
>> Got to tell you what, if this was like muggle technology, they're already screwed. They're No, there's not.
They're not getting in.
>> Absolutely. It's sort of like, uh, no, no, no, no. We have just sealed the entrance and the exits. And >> who are you, Harry Potter? Great. You stay where you are. We'll set someone up to arrest you.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Right this moment.
>> Right. Yeah. Yeah.
>> We don't like you right now.
>> That's it. Yep. Uh, >> we have questions like, where's Dumbledore?
>> Yes. Yes. Uh, it says, "Half a dozen badges slid out of the metal shoot uh where uh returned coins usually appeared. Hermione scooped them up and handed them mutely to Harry over Jinny's head. He glanced at topmost one. Harry Potter rescue mission. Ha. So literal.
>> I love that she hands them out like they're actually going to put them on.
You know, >> everyone take yours fasted on so they can see you.
>> That's that would be so This is another one where they don't show this scene in the Order of the Phoenix movie. They just cut from the thestrals to them running through the uh hallway at the Ministry of Magic. This would be a very funny one to show them running in the hallway.
miniature magic, but they've all got these little plastic, you know, name tags clipped onto them, and it's sort of like, I see what they did there. They did the name tag.
>> I mean, this would have been such a funny scene for cuz it's like kind of like fastpaced. It was like, you know, get in the Thrals. Fly, fly, fly, get down. And then they just like slam cut to like the six of them in like the world's slowest elevator just like I can't move and then cut to them running again.
>> We we Yes, we need a little juosition.
It feels like a very um Oh gosh, who is who is the guy who has the super stylized u movies? He did like um Grand Budapest Hotel, Wes Anderson.
>> Wes Anderson. Yeah, we we need like Wes Anderson to come in and direct this particular episode. Yes.
>> Just so it's hilarious.
>> I would be so down for it.
>> Right. You could even have like one of those like cut scenes where it's like um like a slice through the earth and you can see like the little shoot going through and there's a dinosaur like parked on one side, you know, like the good oldfashioned T-Rex bones underground.
>> Yes. Because of course there's probably a T-Rex under the ground of London.
>> Probably. Probably there is. You know, we're going down to the Ministry of Magic. They probably protected all that ground from other stuff. I will also say though, Ben, this is where a large uh what I believe metaphor is going to start happening for the rest of the chapter. Yep. Which is that uh the Ministry of Magic is I mean for the whole book, but for this chapter especially, is supposed to represent hell. Um, by which I mean, if you recall, they are traveling pretty far down into the earth. And if you remember back when Arthur takes Harry here down this exact elevator, it describes this descent as like very slow and creaky and lasts over a minute. It's a tight tight space. There's six of them crammed in there. And like they're there's going to be a lot of things they're going to point to this, but if you like they're going down the shaft here into the uh Ministry of Magic. They are going to end up with a where there is a literal portal to death and they are going to basically encounter the devil himself. And if you want to get real into it here, they're going to be down on the ninth level of the ministry. Yep.
>> Which is if you are unfamiliar with Dante's Inferno, which is like this um like part of the Divine Comedy that describes you know what hell and limbo and paradise or heaven is like the this part there are nine levels of hell like circles and they're each like worse than the ones after them. The very very bottom of it is where you will find um Satan himself and it is actually not hot. It is really cold. Keep that in mind. And what he is doing is chewing endlessly on the worst offenders. I want I think it's Judas in um Dante's Inferno.
>> I think you're right.
>> Yeah. Um but these are all people who are dead. He's endlessly chewing on them. He is literally eating the dead.
They're going to run into death eaters.
Yeah. Like there is a lot happening for this metaphor. Plus, it's like as if, you know, the Ministry has obviously sent one of its demons to Hogwarts to, you know, be their enemy all season, and they have just defeated her, and now they're going to the belly of the beast.
>> That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was extremely well uh crafted there.
Yeah, you definitely went through it well. We actually, you gave me that uh explanation on tour and I was like, you were like, "And I think we're descending into hell." And I was like, "Say what now?
>> Say what now?"
>> I was like, "Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Let me catch up." Yeah.
>> But now that I knew you were doing it, I did some additional research and I was like, "Oh, he's so right."
>> Oh, yeah.
>> What did you do?
>> Well, I was reading about, you know, the nine circles of hell or whatever as you descend down. And it was sort of like and I think I I think additionally like the ninth level is is meant to represent like treachery. which I feel like it's like there's not like an active betrayal that I think is happening like as like a defining moment of chapter like the ministry at large is committing treachery against the wizarding world you know because it's like they are actively um failing to give the correct information to the public. So like they are in an act of treachery effectively.
Yeah. um you know which is which is like that Voldemort is back and it's also going to be the thing that is like you know fully and completely witnessed by Fudge himself by the you know the end of this entire scene.
>> Yeah. And I mean even if you like watch the um the movie it's like when you see the order arrive I mean they look like freaking angels showing up you know.
>> Yes. Yes. They like they arrive with like white light. They're all like in like a kneeling position like ready for battle. It's Yeah. It's really cool.
>> Um all right. Let's see here. So, uh, then as we make it down to the atrium, it seemed to be completely empty. Uh, and this is despite the fact that Harry was expecting somebody to potentially be waiting for them in there. The light was dimmer than it had been uh during the day. There were no fires burning under the mantle pieces set into the walls, but he saw the lift slide smoothly to a halt. Uh, as he saw the lift slide smoothly to a halt, the golden symbols continued to twist uh sineuously in the dark blue ceiling.
The Ministry of Magic wishes you a pleasant evening, said the women's voice.
>> First of all, no, they don't. And uh second of all, it won't be >> right. Yes. Um yes, the only sound of the atrium was the steady rush of water from the golden fountain. And so this is just a little reminder that the fountain of magical brethren exists. And it's going to kind of give you a reminder that there's a witch, a wizard, goblin, house elf, and centaur all included in that particular uh depiction.
>> Yeah. Uh because that's going to be a big part of the Dumbledore Voldemort fight coming up here. Yeah.
>> Yep. Um but even though even though the the little welcome to the ministry voice just told them that when they get down there they're going to have to submit their wand for registry or whatever. Uh Harry is quick to notice that uh Harry in the lead past the fountain toward the desk where the security man Eric Munch who had weighed Harry's wand and had sat was now deserted. Harry felt sure that there ought to be a security person there. sure that their absence was an ominous side and his feeling of forboding increased. So Harry's instincts that Sirius is under attack pretty bad. The rest of his instincts still on fire doing their thing.
Correct. It is absolutely true. There's no reason for people not to be here.
There should be a security person here.
>> Yes. The fact that is completely absent is it makes no sense whatsoever. Um because we even know from like Chamber of Secrets, it's like the morning they're having breakfast and you know Arthur walks in, he's like been pulling like an all night shift, right? You know, it's like he >> like we we know that the ministry works at night, right?
>> You know, so this is this is like a fully it like you know, even if it's not as populated as it is during the day, there should be more than no one. Excuse me. There should be more than no one there. Exactly. There should be someone there or else the visitor entrance also should not work right now. It should be like Ministry of Magic closed for the night. Come back in the morning. Bye.
>> Right. So here here's where the pieces of the puzzle start to slide together.
>> Indeed. Because you then are wondering like Right. Right. Right. Right. So where is the security person? Where are the other people? Because bear in also bear in mind that like the Death Eaters are already down here. They're already in the Hall of Prophecy waiting for Harry.
>> Yeah. And I mean, and it's the kind of thing where it's like I I like to imagine that they've been sitting there for a while and like they're like, "Anybody bring like a juice box or like a an orange snacks?"
>> We don't know. Does anyone know? We don't know how long it's going to take, do we? Or >> some gorp.
>> Yeah. Gorp.
>> Like trail mix.
>> Trail mix. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh, it's got raisins in it.
>> Lucius, you know I hate raisins.
>> Calm down, Goyle.
That good for you? They're You need your vitamins.
>> Need your vitamins and fiber.
>> You've been looking a little peaky lately.
>> Anyway, so back to our thestral idea.
>> Back to the thestral idea. So, um yeah, don't forget the thestral the uh the death eaters are already there and no one else is apparently there. They have been having trouble getting into the Hall of Prophecy the entire year.
So, where is everyone tonight? Well, our theory is that the Death Eaters got in here and they're of course know that the plan is for Harry to arrive and come down here, but they don't need Harry getting caught. They got to clear the way for him. So, they have literally killed everyone in their path.
>> And where are they?
>> And where are they? You're going to wonder because there's no bodies, just dead bodies laying around. Be a real problem. And I'll tell you where they are, you guys. They're in the dumpster up above >> the overflowing dumpster. overflowing dumpster that the Thestrals are interested in because Thestrals eat dead stuff, dead meat like half a cow if you recall.
>> If you recall. Yes. Yes. And it's I mean it's like then you start to take a look at the security man's name and it's like oh my gosh it is so on the nose. His name is Eric Munch. as in what's happening to him right now.
>> Yes. It's a real It's got real death eater energy.
>> Real death eater. You get it? You get it? They're called death eaters. They're not intentional. They didn't know if Thestral was going to show up. But what has happened is they have let the dead be eaten.
>> Yes. And and so it's I mean I it's like I don't I don't even I don't even know how to it's like it all fits together in a way that's like it's like so alarming if it isn't intentional for this to be the explanation because otherwise it will go completely unexplained where Eric Munch or anyone else is.
>> Right? There's no reason for the security people not to be here and for it to be completely empty. Cuz if it's completely empty, if this is the normal thing for the ministry at night, then why on earth has Voldemort not just come by himself to get it, you know? Yeah.
Absolutely. Yes. It's like cuz that's the thing. That's the thing is that they're like, you know, and and Bellatrix is even going to say like in in the future chapter, it's like um yeah, the dark wow I opened in the right page. The dark lord walk into the ministry of magic when they are so sweetly ignoring his return. And it's like two people can lift this prophecy.
Voldemort himself and Harry, right? And right now we have successfully got a wideopen atrium with absolutely zero obstacles and a complete pack of Death Eaters guarding the Hall of Prophecy itself. There is literally no reason for Voldemort to not just go on his own, walk right up to it, and pick up the prophecy.
>> Exactly. Exactly. There's just there's no there was no reason at all. Um other Yeah. So, whatever whatever that they they've clearly cleared it out so that Harry can get down there. The other question I'm going to have is that people from the Order of the Phoenix have been guarding the entrance of the Hall of the Prophecy like all year. Like they've been on guard duty and stuff, but I guess not tonight.
>> So, that or >> or they're dead.
>> That or someone is in a dumpster.
>> Yeah. Or someone's in a dumpster and we never find out who.
>> Oh, man. Okay. Uh so anyway, now we make it to the lifts. Uh, not the one, you know, through the guest entrance, but now we're making it to the lift inside where Harry is going to instruct somebody to press the number nine button going all the way down to the bottom level.
>> Yep. The cool female voice said, "Depart of mysteries." And the grill slid open again. They stepped out into the corridor where nothing was moving but the nearest torches flickering in the rush of air from the lift.
>> Yep. Harry turned toward the planned black door. After months and months of dreaming about it, here he was at last.
And this should be setting off alarm bells, Sarah. This is pretty suspicious.
>> Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes. Let's go, he whispered. Uh, and he led the way down the corridor. Luna right behind him, gazing around with her mouth, slightly open. So, it's like once again, you've got Luna who is just sort of like no hesitation, just sort of like in awe of the space that they are in.
>> Yep. Yep. Um, and of course Harry's going to try and be like, "All right, um, you guys stay here." This is all I can imagine what Harry is thinking about through the entire Thestral ride is sort of like I didn't want you to come in the first place, but when we get to like the real danger, I'm just going to like I'm going to come up with a plan to get someone to just stay behind. Yeah. And he's like, maybe a couple people should stay here. And then Genie's going to be like, how are we going to let you know if something's coming? And it's like, ah crap. That's that's a good point.
>> You could be miles away. And I was like, we're coming with you. Look, I didn't ride on an invisible horse for 20 hours or however long it took.
>> Well, for Neville it's not.
>> For Neville it wasn't. But for the other three, Mag just like Rod in Hermione, you're just like, "Okay, okay. Listen up, Harry. That was the worst ride of my life. I still can't feel my legs.
>> I'm coming with you.
>> I'm coming with you."
>> I didn't do that for nothing.
>> Exactly. I like the commitment. I like the commitment. It's like the fear hasn't uh like dissuaded them at all.
They're sort of like, "Yeah, no, no.
That that was now that I'm over that hurdle, I can handle anything." Yeah. Um Yeah. Harry did not want to take all of them with him, but but it seemed he had no choice. And I mean there is something to be said for the fact that like in this situation um by the end of the evening almost all of Harry's compatriots are going to be uh like damaged in some way. Yes. And so it's sort of like Harry understands that there's a huge liability to them coming with him. Um but they insist.
>> They insist. It's like you will be helped Harry. Um so here we go. Over the threshold. Boom. The action is about to start. They're starting a large circular room. Um, and he's trying to figure out where to go. There's a bunch of unmarked doors here. And of course, in his dreams, he just walked straight across.
Probably what he should have done here.
Instead, he's like, "Someone shut the door," Harry muttered. And I love the next sentence. Says, "He regretted giving this order, which means from Harry's point of view, this is an order, which means he knows he is the leader here and like can feel it, you know, >> right?" Like Harry's imposttor syndrome that has existed for so long. It's sort of like he is in the most unusual way all of a sudden in his element. Like Harry operates well under these like stressful situations. And so like even though he had this like major reluctance to be like the leader of the DA, you know, it's like he did and it turned out, you know, he sort of like to his own surprise, he wore it well, that type of thing. But now now we're in action mode and Harry's sort of like, yeah, it's me, you know, like I'm I'm I'm giving the orders now.
>> Yes. Um, but of course as soon as they close the door, the doors are going to spin around and they're not going to know where to go. And I don't really know what on earth the function of this could be if you actually work at the Department of Mysteries or not. Um, it seems like the Death Eaters aren't confused by it um in the same way. Like they can just sort of navigate it. They yeah, they seem like a little bit more prepared or or maybe it's the kind of thing where it's like you start trying doors and you just don't go in them if it's not like the right thing on the other side, right? You know, um I'm I'm not really sure. I do think it's interesting that it rotates and that there are 12 doors because it's giving clock.
>> It is giving clock, you know, >> you know, and we are we are in the Hall of Prophecy. There is a room to time, right?
>> You know, which is kind of interesting.
Um >> so yeah, a lot a lot kind of going on there. uh in terms of like some potential symbolism, but I'm not exactly sure uh you know if it's just sort of like you know it's it's as simple as that you know clock spins time could be I think I think what I is the real function of the spinning room has nothing to do with the department of mysteries and is a literary trick that is being employed on us the readers >> which is and we've talked about this before is uh defer excuse me deferred introduction >> yes okay great idea >> which to say that um is it is when an author will introduce you to a place or a person long before that person enters the actual um story itself. So by the time they arrive, you've already got like an expectation about what that person is like or whatever. And so what's really happening is that after they grab the prophecy and like you know all the heck breaks loose, they're going to start scattering around the rest of the Department of Mysteries and encounter a bunch of random rooms. And so that you, the reader, don't feel confused by the rooms you're running into, we need to we need a way to visit each of them first.
>> Exactly right. Yep. Yep. And I think that's I think it's it's something that this like entire narrative does really well. Like so often we are being like, you know, Victorrum for example, it's like before he shows up as a tri- wizard champion, we've got the Quidditch World Cup. like we already have a feel for who this person is even though none of our characters are having direct interaction with them. Like when Hagrid arrives in chapter 1, um you know, he introduces us to uh Sirius Black. He's like, you know, borrowed it from young Sirius Black, the flying motorbike. Um >> even even before you meet Hagrid, Dumbledore mentions them to McGonagal and says, you know, oh, Hagrid's bringing him, right? You know, >> I would trust Hagrid with my life, >> right? I would Yeah. Like before you meet Hagrid at all, McGonagal will ask Dumbledore like, "Yeah, how how is Harry getting here?" And he's like, "Hagrid's coming." And McGonagal says, "Would you trust Hagrid with something like that?"
Like I know he's got his heart in the right place. So before Hagrid even arrives, you're like, "This is a guy who like maybe sometimes messes up >> or whatever."
>> But but also that like the most important person because one of the few people who doesn't get this introduction is Dumbledore, right?
>> It's almost like he speaks for himself.
>> Dumbledore is very unique in this regard. Even Mr. and Mrs. Mrs. Dursley.
I mean, the very first sentence of the book is Mr. and Mrs. Dursley of number four private drive. We're proud to say they were perfectly normal. Thank you very much. You haven't met Mr. and Mrs. Dursley yet. You're going to meet them real soon. But that first sentence tells you a lot about what you need to know about them.
>> Yeah. The thank you very much has kind of got that passive aggressive sort of like not thank you very much.
>> Not thank you very much.
>> It's like these are people who are going to be hoyy toy uppidity pains in the pukus, >> right? And like even before you meet Dudley, you find out that Vernon um just like experienced Dudley learning a new word which is won't. Which already tells you what you need to know about Dudley by the time you meet him as a 10-year-old that his one-year-old self is disagreeable, right? Even even McGonagal before you meet McGonagle, you see the cat on the corner and it's a very stiff cat that is reading things and being very stern looking like not like regular cats which then when you meet McGonagle, you've already got this sort of like stiff strictness about her, right? You know, Dumbledore is very unique in this regard in that when he arrives on Private Drive, it just says a man appeared. This man was called Albus Dumbledore, right?
>> You know, and you're like boom, he gets a very >> unique you don't get to know things about him ahead of time kind of introduction.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. And and so I think you're I think you're absolutely right. Like as far as uh stepping aside from the round or the 12 or whatever, I think that like Yeah. Going into each of these rooms is it is an amazing setup so that when we encounter them later, we're like, "Yeah, of course the rain room.
We've all been there.
>> We've all been there." Us old brain room lags.
>> Us old brain room lags. And then of course it opens the door literally for some other rooms you haven't been into yet. Like, oh yeah, that was the space room. Of course there's a space room here. Why wouldn't there be, you know?
>> Right. Yes. Yes, indeed.
>> So Jenny says, "What is the point of the doors?" And her explanation is I think it was to stop us know which door we came in from, said Jenny in a hushed voice. Harry Harry seems to think like, okay, that's clearly the right answer.
So, I guess she has good instincts as well. I don't know why that would be the case if you were working there. It's just like, yeah, you walk in and you pick a door and that's just where you're working today. You know, it's a mystery.
You don't even know. You yourself don't even know.
>> I mean, honestly though, like I don't even hate that as an explanation. Like, it's it's like I mean, it's literally called, you know, like the Department of Mysteries. And so the fact that it's sort of like you might show up every day not knowing like what your agenda will be is a mystery, >> right? That's true.
>> So I mean I I I could I do think I could see a world where it's sort of like if you're an unspeakable that's what you wake up in the morning, you get there and it's sort of like maybe the love room door won't open. Maybe somehow it will. Maybe I'll be in the death chamber. Maybe I'll be in space. You know, I don't know.
>> I don't know. We'll figure it out today.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um and said he's like, "Well, we don't need to know where we went. We just need to go until we go serious."
But it says like, "Don't go calling for him though," Hermione says. But Harry had never needed her advice less, which I think is hilarious. He's like, "Yeah, duh. Okay, shut up, Hermione. I'm the leader here."
>> Yeah.
>> We voted.
>> Don't you remember? It was your idea. IT >> WAS YOUR IDEA.
>> YEAH. UM, his instinct was to keep as quiet as possible for the time being.
"Where did we go then, Harry?" Ron asked. I don't. In the dreams, I went through the door and at the end of the corridor was the lifts into a dark room.
That's this one. And then I went to another door into a room that kind of glitters.
>> Right. That room is where they keep the vampires and probably Cedric's body.
>> You got it in. Well done. Well done.
>> Oh, got it.
>> We should try a few doors, he said hastily. I don't know the right one when I see it. Come on. So, it almost is surprising that he needs to enter any of these rooms at all. Um, but I mean it's almost like depensive a little bit where it it's like there are elements of the department of mysteries that seem like they they call to you, you know, like it's almost as if like the mystery wants to be looked at, >> right?
>> Um.
>> Yes. Um, but so he just picks a room at complete random. G uh what is what do we have in the first one? Lamps hanging low on golden chains from the ceiling gave the impression that this long rectangular room was much brighter, though there were no glittering shimmering lights just here and seeing in the dream. Um, this is going to be the brain room. So, it's got the enormous glass tank of deep green water with the um aqua various maggots, says Luna excitedly.
>> Yeah, this is this is like one of those things f first of all, that's just a great trivia like you know because when you're when you're looking at the the brain room tank, what does Luna suggest that they are is aqua various magnets.
That is that is the answer to that question. Um and she's going to follow up with, "Dad, the minister was breeding." "No," said Hermione. She sounded odd. She moved forward to look through the side of the tank. their brains, you know, and it's like this is weird because Luna is going to be like dead on the money for pretty much this entire scene, which almost makes me wonder if instead of brains, this is what Aquavarious maggots look like.
>> Well, but then on the other hand, it's Hermione who's recognizing the brains and she like is the brains, you know?
>> I I I guess that's true. I guess that's true. So, you got you got a little bit of uh you know, column A, column B going on there. Um but yeah, so I mean and it it does seem like what they're ultimately studying is thought, right?
>> So certainly don't hate a world where it just simply is brains, but how or why that works is fittingly a mystery.
>> It is.
>> Yeah. Um Yeah. So actually even my my note that I wrote here uh was that like Hermione is not correcting Luna in this particular situation which a lot of times when it comes to their relationship especially in this book it is Hermione almost being like condescending uh you know like with the probably something blurbering you know or whatever right um but in this case Hermione is just sort of like no it's like she's not correcting she's just realizing >> right yeah >> and but it says she sounded odd it's like she's like fascinated by the brains in the same way that like Harry and Luna and Neville are going to be fascinated by the death chamber.
>> Very good point. Yeah. And then and then Jenny actually the the time room uh because she's going to kind of snap back at Harry. It's like, "Well, you looked at that old arch."
>> Yeah, you're right. You're right. So, they all seem to have like a different relationship with each of the various like rooms that they go into. Yeah.
>> Why would Jinny be fascinated by time?
That's interesting.
>> Why would Jinny be fascinated by time?
Let's see. Let's >> I don't know. I mean, she want to get cursed child about it. Like, she has to travel through time to save her child at some point, but like so do the rest of them.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't feel like significant enough.
>> Feel set up. Yeah, >> it's not like Jinny specific necessarily. Plus, it's a Gerschild, so Gers, I'm not even kidding.
>> Yeah. Anyway, so we'll we'll we'll keep we'll keep giving that a ponder.
>> Yeah, we shall. All right. All right.
Anyway, um let's see. Glimmering early, they drifted in and out of sight in the depths of the green water, looking something like slimy cauliflowers.
>> You know how brains are.
>> Let's get out of here, said Harry. This isn't right. We need to try another door.
>> Um and then Ron's going to be like, well, there are doors here, too. like how big was this place? Um and Harry's sort of like well in my dream I went through the dark room into a second one.
He said I think we should go back and try from there. So good, you know, good for Harry to kind of be like, okay, let's not get lost in the labyrinth here. You know, it's like we need we need the right starting point before we start opening secondary doors.
>> Well, you know, when you've been in, you know, he's like he he he he learned some stuff from the hedge maze, you know.
>> Oh, that's true.
>> Exactly. It's like I've been in mazes before, you know, I know how to do this.
>> That's right. That's right. Plus, when I was a kid once, I got a coloring book.
It was Dudley's old one and he had scribbled all over it. But still, I was able to solve the maze puzzle.
>> Exactly.
>> Right. There was a lot of spots where Dudley had clearly gotten stumped.
>> It's just like Dudley like running into a wall with like a question mark written on the page.
>> I don't know what to do from here.
>> I can't figure this out.
>> It's like, are you not allowed to go backwards?
>> Yeah.
>> Um, I'm just stuck. Uh, so they head back out into the first It's like, why did they even go in the brain room?
Like, it's clearly the wrong one, but whatever. They head back out. Um, and before they shut the door, Hermione cast a spell. When she drew with her wand in midair a fiery X, um, which appears on the door now, it is going to, it says Fiery X, and it uses like an interesting um, like font or whatever, almost a symbol in the book.
>> Yes, it is. Yep. In a couple sentences, it is going to be described as the fiery cross still burn, still showing the door they'd already tried. So, um, to me, you can't say the word fiery cross and it not invoke some symbolism.
>> Absolutely.
>> In you, you know, absolutely. You know, especially when we're already in a place that is very definitely representing hell and now you've got a fiery cross on the scene. Um so it is an interesting choice here because there is some history to this particular symbol. Um like in the most recent history it is more associated with like intimidation and hate and like you know the clan and stuff.
>> Not great.
>> Not great.
>> Yes. Um that said they are about to you know meet a bunch of like mask hooded people in this exact place. There is that. I mean, there's there's almost no doubt that the death eaters are meant to represent in some way other real life groups.
>> Yes. Yes. Um, however, more historically, a fiery cross has symbolized either a call to arms or like is like a rallying symbol and predict and true to form, the order of the Phoenix will rally to them later in the night, >> right? Yes. Yes, indeed. Um, but this is this is very helpful because it kind of helps them keep track of which doors they've now already gone through. Um, so now he goes forward and pushes on the second door. This one's larger than the last, dimly lit, rectangular, and the center was sunken, forming a great stone pit some 20 ft below. They were standing on the topmost tier of what seemed to be stone benches running all along the room and descending in steep steps like an amphitheater. Um, this is in this is of course what we will eventually know from Dumbledore is referred to as the death chamber.
>> The death chamber, but it it is described immensely similar to the Lrange family like tomb, right? In Crimes of >> Grindlewald. Yes. And it's I mean it almost is like like bizarre how similar this is. And I mean, even when you go to um in in the first Fantastic Beast movies, there's a scene where Tina and N are kind of like brought into a room with like a like liquid mercury looking like silver pool of death, right?
>> Um and it almost seems like Tina is being like manipulated into believing that she's like meant to like step into it. Like I think she's even seeing potentially like vision visions of like her mother, right? And in this particular case, you've got the veil which is going to start like speaking to those who have lost loved ones, >> right? Um and then even even in Crimes of Grindleald, like um Grindleald is going to cast that blue fire around the edge of it and as people enter the deis, they are either cleansed or they die.
>> Or they die. Yes. It's like a it's like a worthiness to his cause type of situation. So, I mean, this would almost be like I mean, I'm just absolutely spitballing purely because of the Grindleald comparison. Like, could a Death Eater step through the veil?
>> Um, >> you know, like like in that cleansing >> Oh, >> like capacity like it's almost like is your commitment to the dark arch?
>> You know, I don't think so for what it's worth. But like just as a as like a as like a mental test, right?
>> Um, it would be like an I mean, of course, you know, obviously Voldemort getting in here to use such a structure would also just be impossible. So, um, highly unlikely.
>> Highly unlikely. Yes. Um, but there you go. It just like it it is like there's a spot in America, there's a spot in France, and there's a spot in the UK that all seem to have this like weird like death association with them.
>> That's right. Yeah. Um, then we get the description of the stone archway itself which looked so ancient, cracked, and crumbling that Harry was amazed the thing was still standing. Um, and this is definitely like uh if you go into like the deep archives, the Ministry of Magic basically discovered this particular location and was like the Department of Mysteries is built around it, right?
>> Um, and so that's that's kind of like again you go back to the pensive which has like its own particular draw to it is like discovered by the founders and it is the location uh around which they build the school, right? Um, so it seems like there are some either truly truly truly ancient artifacts that predate the founders completely. Uh, or these are just like magical manifestations of the natural world, >> right? Yeah. Which would kind of, you know, make sense like death is like, you know, it is obviously a huge mystery and if they have physical representations of all these things, then >> right, >> you know, I guess it's got to be somewhere and here it is.
>> Yes.
>> And it would also not surprise me then if there was more than one portal to death like around the world.
>> Also true. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, that makes sense.
>> Um, but also the room is described despite the complete stillness um of the cold surrounding air, uh, the curtain was fluttering very slightly as though it had just been touched. So that's the like the cold feeling that they're going to have like cuz now we're um, you know, in our in our ninth circle here.
>> Yes, exactly. Um, and this this is like where the veil is definitely calling to Harry. He's scrambled down the benches one by one until he reached the stone bottom of the sunken pit. His footsteps echoed loudly as he walked towards the deis. The pointed archway looked much taller from where he stood now uh than where he'd been looking down on it from above. Still the veil swayed gently as though somebody had just passed through it.
>> Oh. And then he calls, "Serious?" Which you're like, "Oh, not yet."
>> It's It's not proper foreshadowing, but it is horrible when you know >> it is. Yes.
>> Yeah. It's sort of like, "Oh, man.
Someone will pass through it and that person >> is serious." Yep. Um, and you know, so it's it's sort of not where he is now, but where he will end up by the end of the by the end of the scene. But yeah, then then there's also just like a the usage of the word veil is also very interesting because it's the same word used in a different capacity when we get the tale of the three brothers uh where the second brother who uses the resurrection stone to basically recall people from death. Um, you know, his uh betrod is separated from him as though by a veil. Um, the term betrod means means to wed. Uh, and when people, you know, are wed on their day, they're typically wearing a veil. Um, so it's like that you could you could see it as like veil covering her face or veil like death behind >> beyond the veil, especially because it's like, you know, the resurrection was literally given to him by death. So, I think there's um some very intentional symbolism happening there. Um, but yeah, we get Harry's like ekking around. it figures out that like the curtain is just on both sides. You get a pretty good description. You you get the gist of it. It's like the curtain is there, but you definitely despite that, it's not like you can walk through it one side or the other, >> right? Right.
>> Yeah. Yep.
>> Um and then Hermione is of course suddenly starting to get a little freaked out. You know, this isn't right, Harry. Come on, let's go. Like unlike the brain room, she definitely fears this room. Uh she sounded scared, much more scared than she had in the room where the brain swam, right? Um, so she still like fears death like much more than Harry who of course accepts death and that's like his, you know, big thing, master of death energy happening here. Yeah. Yeah. So Harry's seeing like kind of beauty about it. Uh, and it's it this is also kind of interesting to me because it kind of gives me like mirror of ariset vibes like kind of like the many have wasted away before it, you know, like it it again it kind of calls to you like you you can't help but go back and and look. And in this particular situation that's exactly what what Harry has going on. Yeah.
>> Um >> says he felt a very strong inclination to climb up on the deis and walk through it which is just such big foreshadowing.
>> It absolutely is. That is foreshadowing for sure cuz he will accept death.
>> Yes, he will accept death. He will walk into the forest and um you know walk through the veil as it were.
>> Right. Right. Then Harry and Hermione's trying again. Harry, let's go. And he uh he's like okay. But he did not move. Um but he hears the murmuring noises coming from the other side of the veil. What are you saying? He said very loudly.
with the words echoed all around the surrounding stone benches. Nobody's talking, Harry said. And Hermione now moving over to him and he's like, "Somebody's whispering behind there. Is that you, Ron?" And Ron's like, "I'm here, mate." And Harry's like, "Can't anyone else hear it?" And then Luna's going to be like, "I can hear them, too.
There are people in there."
>> Yeah. Uh, and of course, Luna is eventually going to explain this in the future, being like, she's like, "The people we lose aren't really gone. You know, you could hear them, couldn't you, behind the veil?" It's like she is understanding it because she doesn't have logic. Like I mean not to not to, you know, make logic sound unimportant, but like she's not blinded by logic in this situation. Like this is the situ this is a moment where like Luna's character arc as like the cloud cuckoo lander is on very proud display. Like she is speaking the truth through her own unusual like perspective, right?
>> Um yeah. And Hermione on the other hand is of course kind of like the like in intellectual opposite of Luna and she's like there isn't any in there. It's just an archway. And it's like Hermione there's no way you believe that. This is the department of mysteries, right? It's like you you're almost being like condescending again isn't the right word, but like maybe a little thick um about what could that what this thing could possibly be. It's just an arch.
There's this great stone deis surrounding just an arch. It's like no way.
>> No way. No way. Something's to do with it.
>> Yeah. But she is able to snap Harry out of his revery by mentioning Sirius. And he's like, yeah, yeah, right. Captured, bound, tortured. He was staring at the archway. Let's let's go. And her mind is like, "Yes, that's what I've been trying to Well, come on then." Yeah. On the other side, Jinny and Neville were staring apparently entranced at the veil, too. Um meaning so even though Jinny couldn't see the thestrals, she too is entranced by the veil.
>> Yes. And and this is interesting because well otherwise we would have Harry and Luna who have decidedly heard voices.
Neville who is also entranced by it. And so those three are the three that can see thestrals and because they've lost loved ones are probably like more likely to be like drawn to it or like those voices are calling to them or whatever.
You know there's there's loved ones.
It's it has a natural draw. Jenny, on the other hand, I think is an unusual case. And do you want to explain why?
>> Well, we I mean, it's it's hard to explain exactly why, but you could argue that because Jinny is in love with Harry and Harry is the master of death that she understands death more than like Ron and Hermione, >> right? And and it's like, you know, she she like almost loves Harry in this like nonsupficial capacity. It's not infatuation. It's like she has this like, you know, solid quality like, you know, like understanding of Harry as a person, right?
>> Um, and it's like obviously she's going to continue to date like Dean and stuff like that. So, it's like but at the core, Jenny is like never giving up on Harry and she will eventually tell him that >> in in her own words, >> right? And like even when he like, you know, breaks up with her, she's just like, "Oh, I knew you would do this."
It's for some noble reason, isn't it?
You know, it's like she she knows of course he's going to do that because she knows who he is and she doesn't like really count it as the end or anything.
>> Exactly. And and I mean even like at the wedding it's like they've been broken up for like the whole summer or whatever and like the last you know the gift that she gives him for his 17th birthday is like the kiss and it's like the kiss is basically like a you know symbolic promise ring if you will. Like it's like Jinny's like I will be here when you get back. Not do not fret. Even when he's breaking up with her, she's like, "That just makes me like you even more," you know?
>> Right. Yes. They they they never once they are together, they never really break up.
>> Exactly.
>> Um Yeah. So anyway, no, I love that.
Love that. Um what do you reckon that art was? Harry asked her as they regain or as they Yeah. regain the dark circular room. I don't know, but whatever it was, it was dangerous. So there you go. It's not just an archway.
She knows it. Yeah. Um once more, the wall spun and became still again. Harry approached the door at random and pushed. It did not move. What's wrong?
It's locked, said Harry, throwing his weight at the door. But it did not budge.
>> Yeah. This room is going to be the love room. Speaking of love.
>> That's exactly correct. Yeah. So Ron's going like, "This is it then, isn't it?
Bound to be." Um, and you know, then Hermione is going to jump in and try a Lohora, which is, you know, it's kind of like, okay, you're one spell opening the door at the Department of Mysteries.
Unlikely.
>> Unlikely, >> but either way. And then Harry's going to like serious knife. And he pulls it out from inside of his robes and slid it into the crack between the door and the wall. Um the others watching eagerly, he withdrew it and flung his shoulder at the door. It remained uh as firmly shut as ever. What was more uh when Harry looked down at the knife, he saw that the blade had melted.
>> Ah, this is just plot convenience.
They're just destroying one of Harry's two OP tools.
>> Absolutely. Yep. And I mean, we will also know that uh time turners are very intentionally destroyed uh here, I believe, in the next chapter uh for the exact same reason. So, this is sort of like ah you know, sometimes we introduce something, we have to destroy them. This is that moment. Uh, and also because the the fact that this door is locked is not an indication at all that it is the right room. It is in fact an indication that it is not the right room.
>> Exactly. So, uh, Hermione's like, nope, nope, nope. Harry could get through the door. Fiery cross number three goes up.
You know what could be in there? Said Luna eagerly as the wall started to spin. And Hermione is just starting to get frustrated. Something blubbering. No doubt. I am positive that Luna knows it's love.
>> Yes, absolutely. Uh, one 100% because she doesn't actually like offer any further explanation. So, this is kind of like one of those things where I almost imagine like Luna pulls out like a little notebook and she's like, "At this specific time, Hermione told me that I did not know what it was. I believe it is love. Check with Dumbledore later.
PS. Bling. Cool."
>> Yeah. Right. Exactly.
>> Yeah. Um, anyway, then they open the fourth door and Harry says, "This is it." Uh, he knew it at once by the beautiful dancing diamond sparkling light.
>> Yeah. Also, not for nothing, that's three fiery crosses. And I don't know, three crosses also seems really symbolic.
Just saying.
>> There are three wooden crosses on the right side of the highway. Anyway, sorry. Um, my my country music singing career aside. Um, >> yeah, beautiful Randy Travis voice you got there.
>> Thank you. Thank you. I It is a little early in the morning, so I feel like a little uh a little uh crackly. Yeah, right. You know, so >> he's got kind of a crackly, you know.
>> Oh, kind of crackly. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, there we go. Maybe I'm on my way. Um, yeah. So, once again, we knew uh right away the beautiful dancing uh diamond sparkling light. Uh he saw clocks gleaming from every surface, large and small, grandfathering carriage hanging in spaces between bookcases and standing on desks ranging the length of the room. A busy, relentless ticking filled the place like thousands of minuscule marching footsteps. The source of the dancing diamond bright light was a towering crystal bell jar that stood at the far end of the room. This way.
>> Yeah. So Harry is in the room at long last. It's like, "How is this dream going?" He's like, "I went through one door. Then I went through another door that glitters. Then in the glittery room, I went through another door of dusty orbs."
>> Of dusty. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, you know, and then at this is where you have the Jenny moment. Oh, look, said Jenny as I drew an air pointing at the very heart of the bell jar. Drifting along in the sparkling current inside was a tiny jewelbrite egg, and it's going to like crack open. A hummingbird will emerge.
It'll go to the very top of the jar. And then as it falls, the feathers become draggled, damp again. And by the time it was born back at the bottom of the jar, it is enclosed once more in its egg. Um, >> very phoenix-like.
>> It is extremely phoenix-like. So, it's interesting that it's like a hummingbird of all things.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, but I do I just love that description alto together. I think it's just it's it's a it's a gorgeous visual if I may.
>> It is. I agree with you entirely. It's very, very cool. Um, of course, Harry is not ready to stop. It's like keep going.
It's like you do off by that old arch.
To which I'm like, so did you. Okay.
>> Yeah. Right. Exactly. Um, but maybe that's also like a mild defining difference between uh, you know, like Hermione in the brain room, Harry in the death chamber, and now uh, Jenny in the time room, right? Uh, so Ron is really the only one who's not going to have like a specific like moment.
>> Um, yeah, I know, right? He's going to have >> He is the one who finds the prophecy, though.
>> That's true. That's true. He is the one who finds the prophecy and he will summon the brains to himself.
>> He will. Yep. Yep. Yep. Good point. Good point. Um, so keep going, said Harry sharply. Oh, sorry. We already got that.
Uh, you dodled enough by the little arch. This is it," Harry said again.
"It's through here." He glanced around at the mall. They all had their wands out and looked suddenly serious and anxious.
>> It swung open, high as a church and full of nothing but towering shelves covering in small, dusty high as a church. A church, Ben. Anyway, >> oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, the symbology Batman.
>> The symbology Batman. We're getting real on the nose here.
>> It really is. I It's almost like at the point where I'm like I'm sort of surprised we haven't seen it before.
>> I know. I know. I'm like, okay. Um, okay. Uh, the room was very cold.
>> Very cold again.
>> Yes. Indeed. Yep. Um, Harry edged toward and peered down one of the shadowy aisles. Um, you said it was row 97, whispered Hermione. Um, this I think is also very interesting. Um, because the that that the row 97 is a little piece of trivia. Uh, it is the row which contains Harry's prophecy with the dark lord. Also, Philosopher Stone, the first ever book in this series, was published in the year 1997.
So, beginning the battle between Harry and Voldemort.
>> And the year 1997 is when Deathly Hallows takes place.
>> Yes, indeed.
>> And of course, the final battle will be in 1998 cuz it'll be the spring because that's when Voldemort attacks. But, but the seventh book starts, the prophecy fulfills itself, begins fulfilling itself in 1997.
>> Exactly. Exactly. Um, let's see here.
So, they they look up, they see uh silver figure 53. Another piece of trivia there. What is the first uh aisle that they run into? They get the direction oriented because the one next to it is 54. And they start heading down the long alleys of shelves.
>> Yes, they do.
>> Yeah, they see uh it's also kind of interesting to get the uh description.
This is going to come back up later with Dumbledore because it says some of them had a weird liquid glow. Others were as dull and dark within as blown light bulbs. Um, this is sort of like the um, like Dumbledore will say, "Do you think that every prophecy in the Hall of Prophecies comes to happen, right?"
>> Um, and the idea that I believe is happening here is that these are prophecies that were made and have basically come and gone, >> right? Like the blown light bulbs to me sound like ones that didn't come true.
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Which is sort of interesting because, you know, prophecies in so many ways feel like something that is determined to come to be. Um, but there's also like an argument that we have had in the past which is that Harry is not the first ever chosen one, right? Um, and one of the the person who I think preceded Harry in particular is Sirius's younger brother, Regulus.
>> I agree.
>> Um, who dies extremely shortly before Harry is born.
>> Right. Because the Harry the prophecy about Harry is going to say the one with the power to defeat the dark lord approaches. Not the one who will defeat the dark lord, just the one who could.
>> The one who could. Exactly. So I and you know Regulus is also the only other person who's ever discovered Voldemort's Torcruxes and successfully steals one of them, right? Um so Regulus was on the quest basically and and fails in his journey, but his portion of it also helps establish Harry's future success.
So um you know, kind of all like building blocks one on top of the other, >> right? And like his death aligns pretty well with like Harry's birth.
>> Yeah, that's what I was saying. Yeah, it's I think I think the timing is kind of remarkable when you really start to like sit down and do the math, >> right?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's sort of like, oh, one's gone and another one's on the way.
>> Exactly correct. Exactly correct. Yep.
Um, yeah. Let's see. Uh, so they get to row 97 and now now it just feels like alarm bell should really be going off.
It's like, oh my gosh, you were told exactly where to go and now you're there. Like, uh, >> I know. Yeah.
>> Oh no, Harry.
>> Yeah. And I mean, Harry will not give up either. He's like, he's right down at the end. You can't you can't see properly from here. He's like, "He should be here." Anyway, here really close. And Hermione's like, "Harry, like and he's like, this is this is where like Hermione's like he's not here."
>> Yeah.
>> Um Yeah. There's nobody at all. And so Harry's going to go and like check the other nearby aisles, which is definitely like even less likely. Although I do it at the grocery store all the time and I can't find the Spanish rice I like for my tacos.
>> They're not It's not there. They move it around all the time.
>> They sure do. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And it's like Harry is definitely also starting to realize it and just like Hermione is trying to tell him and he's just like no no because he know he knows that if Sirius isn't there then something even worse is a foot.
>> That's exactly right.
>> Yeah. And he's like I I and I've led you to it and that's so much worse. I need Sirius to be here because otherwise it's not like it's not like uh I guess we'll just leave, >> right? Yes.
>> It's like he he's one step ahead of Hermione. Hermione is like, "He's not here." And he's like, "I know he's not here." And that means it's worse.
>> It's a trap.
>> It's a trap. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Harry did not want to look at any of them. He felt sick. He did not understand why Sirius was not here. He had to be here. This is where he Harry had seen him. And it's like, "Oh no."
And then this is the moment where Harry Ron is going to call. Harry, what? He did not He did not want to hear what Ron had to say. "Have you seen this?"
"What?" said Harry. But eagerly this time, it had to be a sign that Sirius had been there. A clue. What? Harry replied again. It's It's got your name on.
>> It's got your name on it.
>> It's like, are we missing a word there?
It's got your name on, >> man. I tell you what, though. I really think Neville should have been the one to find the prophecy.
>> I absolutely agree with you because, and as much as we keep saying that like these magical things call, it's like Neville is the other person who could have been the subject of the prophecy.
So, it's like to find the needle in the hay stack inside of this giant room full of so many other things. It's like it almost feels like the only person who could be like pointing, you know, magnetic north at this is Neville.
>> It feels like it has to be Neville to do it, but I get I don't know. Maybe the shelf is too tall and his short legs can't carry him that high, I guess, right?
>> Yeah. So, then it says, "Yeah, Harry moved a little closer. Ron was pointing at one of the I I'm so sorry. I did not hear your little legs comment and it hit me after the fact.
Okay, Neville's too short.
>> He's too short.
>> Short little legs.
>> I blew right past your really excellent joke. That's my fault. Um, this is interesting though cuz it says Ram was pointing at one of the small glass spheres that glowed with a dull inner light, though it was very dusty and appeared not to have been touched for many years. So, what do you think of the dull inner light as far as our our previous argument that like the ones that are blown are prophecies that have come to pass?
>> Uh, I don't know. I mean, it's obviously this one's still very much alive.
>> Well, it's very much alive, but like do you think that there's any possibility that like the prophecy is almost aware of the events of the evening because Harry will face Voldemort hands at his side and have a vodicra shot directly at him, right? And so it's it's almost as if like the prophecy is sort of like it's almost over or it could almost be over.
>> Maybe maybe I wonder if it's like it's like if >> Oh, I have a different idea.
>> If it if like the prophecy knows like if he doesn't pick it up right now, it'll just go out because he won't learn what it says.
>> Because he won't learn what Okay.
>> or whatever.
>> Well, there's that. I was going to say that this is almost like Harry has reached such a stage that it's almost like what Dumbledore ultimately argues with him is that it's not the prophecy moving Harry forward. It's Har like think if you had never heard the prophecy, what would you want to do? And here he's like I would want to defeat him and it would I would want it to be me.
>> So it's almost like the prophecy is almost starting to not matter anymore. I see because Harry is I Yeah. Harry is starting to take the reigns >> cuz honest like the other pieces have like already happened. And it's like Voldemort is like already taking his blood and stuff.
>> They are now mutually bonded together.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
>> Like mutually bonded, I suppose.
>> Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. Um, my name said Harry Blankley in spidery writing uh was a written date of some 16 years previously below that said uh SPT to APWBD which is going to be Cibil Patricia Trrellani to Albus Pival Wolfick Brian Dumbledore >> Brian >> Brian >> this this again kind of goes back to the um the deferred introduction is that your is that your term because earlier in the book obviously we get uh Dumbledore's full name, but uh in this particular moment, it can still be very cryptic if you're not like an eagle-eyed reader because typically we don't think you know the three initials certainly you could solve that five initials is much less common, right?
>> Um but the fact that we have already been introduced and and this will get resolved later anyway, like we'll we'll just be told directly. Um but if you were like really really really paying attention, you're like it's the Dumbledore. It's the Dumbledore. Yeah.
Um and you could pro I mean even the inclusion of the P there is interesting too because it maybe throws you a little off the scent of civil trilani. Um because it's not you won't canonically find out that the P stands for Patricia.
That's like um extracurricular research you have to do. Yeah.
>> Um but of course it is Cibil Trrellani and or even earlier in the book when Umbrage was questioning her, you were given a small hint about that as well where she says and how long have you been teaching here? And she'll say 16 years later this year or whatever. Yes.
And it's like, oh, and it just said 16 years prior.
>> Yes, exactly. Um, and yeah, so now now we're really getting there. Then we've also got the question mark. Uh, this is something that is later modified. So, originally it said dark lord and question mark because it could have also been Neville. Um, something I don't think we know yet. Um, we know because we read the story a million times. I don't think Harry knows.
>> Harry does not know that yet. No.
>> Yeah. Harry stared at it. What is it?
Ron asked, sounding unnerved. What's your name doing down here? Um, and he glanced along the other labels that stretched on the shelf. "I'm not here," he said, sounding perplexed. "None of the rest of us are here."
>> Yeah. Duh.
>> Yeah. Which I mean, all I can >> actually not even 100% true. Neville is semi there.
>> Neville is semi there. Although not his name uh specifically spelled out with all the necessary letters, but um but I guess in this particular situation, it could kind of almost be like the badges, you know, or something where it's sort of like, oh yes, every person who enters the Hall of Prophecy has an orb >> made for them or something. I mean it's a weak argument but you know I mean uh as far as sort of like creating further you know mystique about this particular orb >> right now you get Hermione speaking up Harry I don't think you should touch it fact >> yes why not he said it's something to do with me isn't it and then Neville's like don't Harry um you know and it's like his face is shining slightly with sweat he looked as though he could not take much more suspense >> it's like what did Neville feel in that moment like something something shivered through him >> right right yes >> like there was a lot there's a lot in that orb Right. I know. Yeah. And then Harry is going to say exactly what Ron says. It's got my name on.
>> And it's like this is again like it feels like there should be like one of those like dashes that signifies that like they're cut off, you know, like from from finishing their statement. And no, it just says it's got my name on.
>> I'm feeling slightly reckless. He closed his fingers around the dusty ball surface.
>> Harry, the fact that your name is on it should be pretty suspicious, too, man.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I think this is where it's like I would I would almost like the Hall of Prophecy librarian to like let me know whether or not I should do this, right?
>> Um but yeah, then as he picks it up, it's quite warm.
>> Yes.
>> Which is, you know, it's sort of like an interesting phenomenon. Um you know, and he's expecting something dramatic to happen. It's like, you know, it will.
>> It will.
>> Um yeah, he lifts the glass ball down from a shelf and stared at it. Nothing whatsoever happened. The others moved in closer and Harry gazing at the orb as he brushed free the clogging dust. And then from right behind them, a drawing voice said, "Very good, Potter. Now turn around nice and slowly and give that to me." Uh-oh.
And with that, it brings us to the end of chapter 34. Looking forward to chapter 35, Beyond the Veil.
>> Yeah. Oh, man. Beyond the Veil. It's a It's a It's a sad one.
>> It's a sad one. But so uh yeah, before before we uh close out today's episode, Jay, do you have a review for us?
>> I do have a review and it comes from Thomas at this is a fake name.
>> Hey, cool. Probably Beatatrice.
>> Probably Beatatrice. Exactly.
>> Yeah. Uh Beatatric says, "Great nighttime podcast. Very good. A nice way to wind down at the end of the day. When Jay or Ben does a sponsy ad, they sound like they are presenting a prize and the price is right. Come on down."
>> Okay. I love that. Good >> theory. When the pro when was the prophecy fulfilled? If it was Voldemort's own spell that killed him, then he didn't die at the hand of the other. If true, I suppose the prophecy was fulfilled in the forest.
Okay. Well, it's kind of interesting almost like given the uh the dull light conversation we've just had. Um, which is like I mean I I don't know if I'm going to put like too much unnecessary weight on something that is just sort of like an off-the cuff theory. Um, but it it could almost potentially be that like the prophecy was going to expire like you know but but again like Harry has already like don't Voldemort will not stop by any means. He never learns the full contents of the prophecy because it gets destroyed. Yeah. Um, do you think the destruction of the prophecy does anything to the prophecy?
>> Um, I don't know. I don't know. Like, I'm not sure how you would otherwise hear it. So, I feel like Voldemort would have broken it open if he got it, too. Like, is that how you hear the prophecy?
>> I guess that's a fair point. Like, it's when it breaks that you hear it, right?
Um, unless otherwise the reason that the like the the parties involved with the creation of the prophecy like because the way that I tend to imagine is almost that nobody is writing this this parchment, right?
>> Um, >> yeah, I agree. I feel like the the orb appears of its own accord >> and the label appears of its own accord.
>> Right. Right. Right. Right. Um, and so like with with that in mind, like maybe the reason that the label is there is because then you could potentially go and seek out the people who the prophecy was either told by or told to. Um, I don't know, right?
>> Um, in in this particular instance because you've got Dumbledore who can remember the prophecy perfectly because it's Dumbledore in his mind is incredible. Um, but so, okay, just to take their question at face value then, so just assuming that the prophecy is just fully and completely still in play, when does one die at the hand of the other, >> right? Like does it count when Voldemort attacks Harry or when Voldemort destroys himself?
>> So, because the the Beatrice is arguing that because Voldemort's wand backfires, he does not die at the hand of Harry.
However, Beatatrice, you will note that it is not Voldemort's wand. It is Harry's wand that backfires and kills Voldemort.
>> That is true >> because the Elder Wand is Harry's.
>> Right. So, maybe it's like die at the hand of the other. It's almost like die at the wand of the other.
>> Yeah. Die at the wand of the other.
There's there is that um because this is like one must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives. Well, the other that the other thing that's kind of interesting about this is that neither of them actually dies.
>> Well, that's true. Neither can live while the other survives, but I wouldn't say Voldemort survives.
>> I would also agree that he he does not survive, but he also doesn't die, >> right? One must die at the hand. Okay.
So, if it's one must die at the hand of the other, then it is more likely than I suppose that it is Harry who dies, >> right, >> at Voldemort's hand, >> right? And I mean on on some level I do think that we are meant to interpret what happens to Harry as him returning from death, >> right?
>> You know, >> right? Um yeah, I agree. I agree. It's supposed to be Harry returning from death, even though that's also where Voldemort ends up permanently. But >> also true. Yeah, because we're in case anybody's sort of confused when we're saying that like Voldemort doesn't like die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die effectively what we mean there is that when Harry dies um you know in the forest he goes into limbo and the other person other than Dumbledore who is there is the like remnants of Voldemort's soul which is that like really weakened like thing that happens to be there >> the barbecue baby >> the barbecue baby um and the reality of that is that Um, when Voldemort is ultimately defeated at the Battle of Hogwarts, his soul is almost like too weak to ever escape or like, you know, so like as Dumbledore would say, like board a train and move on, right?
>> Um, and so Voldemort will be permanently stuck in misery in limbo forever, >> right? And I mean, when we see it, when Harry's there, it's like Dumbledore's like, "Well, this is, as they say, your potty," which is why it looks like King's Cross Station. But like I doubt Voldemort's version of Limbo looks like King's Cross Station. I'm sure it's much more awful, >> much more like dark, ominous. Like the fact that like even like Harry's version of it is like bright and white and he is completely whole in his own. It's like Harry is meant to look like fully complete, fully solid, right? You know, whereas like Voldemort is like frail and weak and and all that type of thing.
almost like something like Voldemort's unanswerable questions, chaos, cold, you know, it's like he's in the ninth circle, >> right? Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much.
Um, so that that makes it and then like neither can live while the other survives.
Like to me the way that I always interpret that is like Harry's life will never get to be Harry's life until Voldemort is defeated, right? And I mean we know that to be true, you know, I mean from the very beginning of his schooling, even growing up with the Derslley's, it's like he Harry doesn't have a life of his own. He is at the mercy of, you know, these horrible people, right? But so then does Harry begin to live the moment that he comes back to life even though Voldemort isn't defeated yet? Or is the prophecy not completed until Voldemort is in feed in is in fact defeated? Um, I mean, you could you could probably make the argument that once Harry has come back that Voldemort is like effectively doomed. Um, because >> I I guess the killing of someone isn't the fulfillment of the prophecy, per se.
One must die at the hand of the other.
Harry dies at the hand of Voldemort, for neither can live while the other survives. And then Voldemort fails to survive. But yeah, Voldemort fails to survive. So I think I think the one must die at the hand of the other is Voldemort killing Harry, but the prophecies is not actually completed until Voldemort himself fails to survive.
>> I like that.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, cuz it's almost like an interesting like the yin and yang type situation because, you know, if you look at the symbol itself, you have all black with a dot of white and all white with a dot of black. And I mean when you look at Harry and Voldemort, they are, you know, two pieces of a hole, at least in this, you know, symbolic representation where, you know, the black has a piece of white inside of them, which is Voldemort taking Harry's blood within, whereas Harry is the pure white with the small piece of black, which is the Horcrux that lives inside of Harry.
>> Right. Right. So, >> but when Voldemort attacks him, the little black dot inside of the white disappears and then at long last, the white has 51% of the circle.
>> Exactly. Yes. and therefore can can defeat the >> the the 49% of black half.
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful.
Beautiful. Okay. Well, I think that's going to do it for today's episode.
Don't forget guys that we are going back out on tour to the Northeast. We're going to be hitting up a whole bunch of locations, six in total. We are going to uh Boston, Massachusetts, Hartford, Connecticut, New York City, Philadelphia, Washington DC, and Richmond, Virginia. Uh we do have like a a VIP upgrade available for all of those events where if you'd like to come and meet Jay and I before any of the shows, we can take a picture, sign anything you'd be interested in, answer any questions for you, um and then come out and enjoy the show. It's it really I mean just like one of my you know favorite things that we have ever done uh here as you know content creators on the greater interweb. Uh so we absolutely hope to see you there. Links to all that in the description down below or you can go to superarland brothers.com/events.
>> Yes, hope to see you there. But otherwise, just meet us back here uh wherever you're listening, whatever podcast player you're on for chapter 35, Beyond the Veil, here on Through the Gryffindor. Today's episode was edited by Ethan Edgeill. Van Brandon does our art. Katherine Stein is our production manager and the show is hosted by me and Jonathan Carlin.
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