The US Dollar Is In A Death Spiral - Own Gold Now

[00:00:01][music] >> Hello everyone. Welcome to the Vancouver Resource Investment Conference. How you all doing [music] today?

[00:00:13]>> [music] >> Hello everyone. Welcome to VRIC Media, your most trusted voice in metals and mining. I'm your host Darrell Thomas and today we have the pleasure of interviewing a prolific author in the gold and silver space, none other than John Rubino of John Rubino's Substack.

[00:00:29]How you doing today, John?

[00:00:31]>> Hey Darrell, it's good to meet you.

[00:00:32]>> Yes, you too as well. Um, you know, have some mutual friends in the space. So it's always good to connect and share stories or whatnot. Uh, curious as we get started today, you know, what are some of the macro views that you hold on the on the economy within the US and also just curious in how the the metals play into that.

[00:00:57]>> Well, this is a wild time for the overall economy. We we just finished or hopefully we just finished a war in the Middle East that had disrupted the energy and agricultural supply chains all around the world. We're still going to see the effects of that.

[00:01:13]Um, and at the same time we've got this massive tech bubble going on with with AI and space-related stocks just going through the roof. You know, SpaceX just did the biggest IPO of all time.

[00:01:25]And while that's going on, we've got the the US government and most of the other governments of the world main our large governments running massive deficits, which is very stimulative in the short run but inflationary and then deflationary in the long run. And um, we got a brand new Fed chairman who's having his very first meeting with the other Federal Reserve board people now as we speak. So all of that stuff is happening at the same time.

[00:01:55]And um, you know, anybody who, um, tells you they know what GDP growth is going to be in the next 6 months is just, um, delusional because there's just too much going on for us to really know, you know, exactly what happens with the economy, um, in the intermediate term.

[00:02:12]You know, longer term, we're we're still in the same place we've been for the last 20 years. We're racking up massive debts. We're creating huge amounts of new currency to finance those debts. And we're, you know, headed headlong for some kind of a currency reset in the not-too-distant future. So, intermediate term, who knows? Um, longer term, we definitely know.

[00:02:34]>> Okay. Okay. Got it. So, Kevin Warsh comes in, new voice, uh, new, you know, leadership, and he has his his thoughts on how, um, you know, we can reduce interest rates and keep inflation low and and then all of that.

[00:02:52]But, you know, at the same time, uh, the market has been kind of responding, wondering wondering if the Fed's going to be hawkish, um, moving forward. Uh, he is only like one of, I don't know if it's 12 voices or 12 votes on on the board or whatnot. Uh, and then Jerome Powell decided to stay on the board, which which was pretty uncommon from what I've heard. Uh, typically when a Fed chair, uh, is is done, they typically step off to allow the new leadership to take place, but he decided to stay on. Uh, so, curious in your thoughts on what can the Fed do in this situation? Uh, do they have any tools left or or are they just they're just to to be performative and and, um, you know, and and look good?

[00:03:37]>> Well, you know, they they've kind of painted themselves into a box that, uh, it's going to be impossible to get out of because they've, um, the Fed has facilitated, um, this massive increase in debt starting in, um, in the 1980s and then accelerating in the '90s and the 2000s and until now.

[00:03:55]And at some point um there's going to be a crisis that the Fed tries to address as it always does with much easier money.

[00:04:05]And it's going to turn out that that doesn't work anymore because there's so much debt out there that the bond markets just refuse to accept the idea that the Fed is going to dump another $5 trillion or whatever to bail out whoever.

[00:04:17]And it's not going to work. And then the financial markets are going to realize there is no more adult supervision in this market, and that we're basically on our own. And so we'll get something like the crack-up boom that the Austrian School of Economics talks about. Where everybody just gives up on a currency, and they just whenever they get any of that currency, they convert it into real stuff.

[00:04:44]Price of real stuff goes through the roof, which is basically raging inflation. And the currency basically just craters.

[00:04:52]So that's coming. And you know, I've been saying it was coming pretty soon for a long time now, and it hasn't hit yet.

[00:05:00]Um but we're you know, we're we're heading that way fast based on the way all the numbers are built up. So uh I I think something like that is coming, and at that point the Fed won't be able to manage it.

[00:05:11]So you know, the guys who are in charge of the Fed right now um that you know, their days of the masters of the financial universe are probably coming to an end. We just don't know when exactly.

[00:05:25]>> Okay. Got it. So crack-up boom.

[00:05:28]Uh when was the last time we had one of these types of booms? Was that in the '70s where where folks were, you know, dumping the dollars for hard assets or >> Yeah, the the 1970s was a was a decade of currency crises. And there are a lot of things going on now that kind of that are reminiscent of what happened back then. But the difference is in the 1970s, yes, we had an energy crisis and then raging inflation and then um gold [snorts] and silver went through the roof and everybody was wondering if actually if capitalism was the way we were going to go forward if we were going to have to become some kind of authoritating you know a version of the Soviet Union to get by because what we were doing just wasn't working. Um but back then we were able to raise interest rates to double-digit levels to fix inflation. You know, we just squeezed inflation out of the market by making money incredibly expensive.

[00:06:26]And that bought us another few decades of um basically debauchery in the financial realm. And this time around we're we're facing some of the same problems, but we don't have double-digit interest rates as a tool to fix it because in the 1970s we had reasonably solid balance sheets pretty much everywhere.

[00:06:47]Governments, individuals, and corporations. And here it's the opposite. Everybody's wildly over indebted. So if we try to address rising inflation with much higher interest rates, we'll just blow up all the the financial speculating community that's out there, which is mostly everybody now.

[00:07:05]Um so that's that's where we find out we don't have the tools anymore. When the Fed starts to try to raise interest rates and even raises them just a little bit from where we are right now, and then all of a sudden um short-term interest rates maybe they go up, but long-term interest rates go up much more cuz the bond market just refuses to accept that um higher short-term interest rates will fix what what ails us now.

[00:07:31]And [snorts] so you know, it's similar to the 1970s in a lot of ways, but very different in how it's going to end.

[00:07:38]>> Mhm.

[00:07:39]So what kind of happens with the obviously you have the debt and deficits um the Fed has come in and reduced rates uh during COVID. Uh we went you know to the zero bound pretty much.

[00:07:54]Then they raised rates to a certain extent. I think it went to what? 4.5 maybe 5% um and then they pretty much stopped and then pretty much been pivoting ever since.

[00:08:05]And so um obviously bond holders want to get paid a a really good yield for the uh risk they're taking on you know with the inflation and and how much dollars are being printed and and so on so forth.

[00:08:22]You know, but we also have this dynamic where the government can't afford higher rates. And so what does that lead to?

[00:08:29]>> Well, here's what's happened lately.

[00:08:31]Yeah, we we did um we bailed out the global economy during the pandemic with massively lower interest rates.

[00:08:37]Something like 1/3 of the the bonds that were trading in the world had negative interest rates for a stretch there. And and that gave us 2022 when we had um double-digits in official inflation in the US. You know, we had a massive increase in the cost of living which terrified everybody and then we had to raise interest rates back to um more or less normal levels.

[00:09:01]Which is where we are now, but but look what's happening to the interest costs on the government's debt. You know, the government had taken on all of this debt over the past uh 30 or so years uh with gradually lower interest rates with which made the debt easy to manage because um the the um interest rates they had to pay on that debt were reasonably low.

[00:09:22]Um but now, you know, rates are back to kind of normal levels 4.5% on the 10-year Treasury and the interest cost on US government debt has rocketed up to about 1.6 trillion dollars a year right now. So that's on top of the structural deficit that the government has to run to pay off social security and Medicare for the the baby boomers that are retiring now.

[00:09:46]Um and, you know, that interest cost has to be borrowed, so that turbocharges future deficits. It makes them much bigger than they would have been otherwise.

[00:09:54]And so, we're in kind of a death spiral now where um we we can't cut interest rates cuz that'll uh reignite inflation, but we uh we can't let interest rates stay at the current level because that's causing our interest costs to go parabolic, which is turbocharging deficits um and and making things much much worse going forward.

[00:10:15]So, we're in this place where there is no solution.

[00:10:19]And um we just haven't figured it out yet.

[00:10:23]There will be a crisis, something will have to be bailed out, and then the government will have to finance that bailout, and that's probably where we find out that we can't do that stuff anymore. And uh you know, there are a lot of potential catalysts for that kind of thing. In other words, sectors that um that could have some kind of a crisis that forces the government to bail them out. So, it's just a question of what what's going to be that catalyst. And we don't know that yet, but there's a um a lot of likely suspects.

[00:10:49]>> Yeah, yeah. I imagine uh the AI sector is going to need bailouts in that type of uh scenario.

[00:10:56]Uh curious to hear your thoughts on the devaluation of the currency. So, you know, obviously, you have a big huge print, you know, from some sort of crisis that's going to devalue the currency.

[00:11:07]I'm still kind of perplexed why people may want to own bonds at this point when when the dollar's being devalued so much. I mean, if you you measure, you know, anything in gold, uh you know, whether that's the S&P, the Dow, um you know, the dollar, many different asset classes, you see that um they're not making new highs in in gold terms.

[00:11:28]They're actually actually, you know, it's things are going lower. And so, uh curious to hear your thoughts there.

[00:11:33]>> Yeah, well, one of the things you don't want to own in a currency crisis is the kind of financial asset that depends for its value on the value of the dollar, right? So, if if you own bonds and they're paying you X X number of dollars per year and the dollar gets less valuable, then the income stream for those from those bonds becomes less valuable and the bonds themselves go down in price.

[00:12:00]And that that's the kind of thing that we're looking at now. And uh So, short-term government paper is actually a good thing to own because government will definitely pay you on a Treasury bill.

[00:12:13]Um but when interest rates go up, the the yield on the Treasury bills that you're rolled into when the government pays you back on your old short-term paper, they go up, too. So, you you're protected from inflation by the fact that short-term interest rates will rise during an inflationary period.

[00:12:32]Um and you're threatened in that same period by owning long-term bonds because they don't roll over. You just are stuck with them. If you buy buy a 10-year or a 20-year or a 30-year bond. Um and that makes them really volatile in relation to interest rates. So, if interest rates go up because inflation's going up, then the value of your bond portfolio goes down. So, yeah, you don't want to own bonds. What what you want to do is swap financial assets like that into real assets like commodities like gold and silver and oil and uranium and copper because they will tend to do well in a currency crisis cuz governments can't just make more gold or silver out of thin air, you know? They can't uh They they can't print gold. They can't print silver as they can with their currencies. So, in currency terms, um precious metals and the other commodities are going to do really well.

[00:13:25]And we're just at the early stage of that bull market. I think we've got another 5 to 10 years for that to run.

[00:13:31]>> Okay, so curious in your thoughts here. So, uh obviously the short-term price action with the metals you know, I don't think people should give a lot of weight to.

[00:13:43]But, the markets do react to things. So, one, uh the market reacted to a hawkish Fed and I believe gold and silver became came under some pressure uh when inflation started ticking up again uh after the war in Iran.

[00:13:58]And you know, the interesting thing is that you know, you want to avoid having uh real negative interest rates on on your assets. Uh you know, where your the interest you're getting is lower than the inflation rate. And so, just curious in your thoughts on these kind of short-term reactions to the price action. Do you Do you give it any weight at all? Do you even uh pay any mind to it? Some people just don't even they just ignore it. Just curious in in how you navigate that.

[00:14:28]>> Well, yeah. You know, it's hard to ignore um big moves in assets that you own, but you should. Yeah, it the the best way to um approach the commodities market, for instance, right now is just to add gradually to really high-quality names. You know, if you have a certain number of stocks that you think are good in the commodity space, just you know, buy a little bit every month. Do what's called dollar cost averaging or use lowball bids. Uh put a you know, a ridiculously low price in uh on when you're bidding for one of these stocks and see if it drops by 20 or 30 or 40%, so that you get them cheaply that way.

[00:15:05]Um but, don't stress over squiggles because um you look at any bull market um and within that bull market, there are brutal corrections where it shakes out all the weak hands and everybody who's in it has a a year in which they lost money and they feel stupid and everything. Just, you know, don't play that game. Keep Keep, for instance, long-term goals of um or long-term predictions of, say, 10 or 15,000 dollars an ounce for gold, couple of hundred dollars an ounce for silver, and commensurately high prices for other commodities.

[00:15:40]And just let that guide you. You know, as long as we're not there yet, then you want to continuously add to your positions.

[00:15:47]Uh and that that makes it a lot easier to sleep because otherwise it'll drive you crazy. Um any any market is um very volatile, especially when it's doing well, and commodities are no exception. So, if, you know, if your self-image um is tied to whatever the copper price is or uranium or gold, um it'll just drive you crazy. So, try your best not to pay attention to what the price is and what the action is on any given day in any given uh part of the commodities complex. Just gradually keep adding and uh eventually you'll have a nice portfolio of uh of this stuff at um favorable prices, and you'll end up being a really successful investor, you know, riding long-term bull markets um without being shaken out is basically how you do it, you know? And uh this is our chance in the commodities space to have one of those decades that every investor dreams about.

[00:16:45]>> Okay. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. So, curious on your thoughts on how you're approaching the the market currently.

[00:16:54]Um some people don't have any physical gold.

[00:16:58]So, you know, obviously, if they're just getting into that, for me, myself, I would advocate that they uh start buying some physical gold.

[00:17:07]Um but then, you know, the miners have sold off significantly, too.

[00:17:13]And I imagine that people that have been accumulating physical gold for a long time are more interested in in accumulating the the miners at at this particular levels. Um, you know, with their all-in sustaining costs still being low and the metals prices still being elevated and they're getting some really good margins and and cash flows from that. Uh, so curious in your thoughts and how you're approaching uh, this market currently. Are you buying physical gold? Are you Are you uh, mostly focused on the miners? Are you doing a blend? Just curious in your thoughts.

[00:17:45]>> Well, I I I think if you're just now getting into this space, you want to start with the um, the least risky assets and then work your way up to the riskier things over time. So, start with um, gold and silver physical. You know, buy some buy some coins, buy some small bars. Um, store them in a very safe place and then when you feel like you have enough um, real money as the bedrock of your financial life, then move on to the equities that um, deal in these things.

[00:18:15]And and uh, start with high quality there, too. You know, pick the uh, the the really good names in the different parts of the commodities complex. You know, the high quality gold miners um, and royalty companies and the the high quality copper miners and uranium miners and add a little bit of them, too. And once you feel like you've got enough of them, work your way down. Get some mid-tier equities and then eventually, um, if if the market gives you enough time, you'll be buying the um, the the junior miners and the explorers because they're the ones that are um, most risky but have the most upside, you know, at at a certain point. Once you educate yourself by buying the high quality names and watching them for a while, then you're ready to to um, look for 10 baggers. And uh, there are quite a few of those potentially in the commodity space right now. So, um, um, you know, make sure you don't mess with those things, you know, the the lottery ticket stocks until you're very well versed in what separates a good one from a bad one in that part of the space.

[00:19:20]So, start with quality, work your way down.

[00:19:24]>> Okay. Do do you have a particular approach when you're getting into the more risky side or you only doing a certain percentage of your portfolio towards like explorers or uh some of these other uh risky names that could give you multi-baggers?

[00:19:41]>> Yeah, you don't you don't want, for instance, explorers to be the bulk of your portfolio cuz they're too risky. Um nobody is able to say with certainty um whether one of them is going to go up a thousand percent from here.

[00:19:56]Uh and rather than going down to zero, you know, that's what happens with a lot of explorers, you know, as uh as your your friend Rich Rick Rule likes to say, they all the capital that's created in the uh the junior mining space is created by 5% of those guys. The rest of them have negative um cash flow and end up with negative returns going forward. So, uh you want to be careful with um with explorers even though some of them are ten-baggers and you don't want to mess with them until you're, you know, you're pretty well versed in how the industry works. You know, you want to be able to read a drill report, for instance, and understand what it means and look at a financing and understand whether it's favorable or not and and look at the people running the company and and being able to you want to be able to judge them based on what they've done in the past. So, once you um can do all those things, then then it's time to buy some juniors and buy some explorers, but you never want them to be the um the bulk of your portfolio just because they're too risky. And you know, leave leave that to the experts, guys who've been doing it for 30 or 40 years and have plenty of money elsewhere.

[00:21:09]>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, I was actually talking with uh Brent Cook recently, uh well-known geologist in in the space.

[00:21:18]Uh and it was kind of interesting with some of his approach where he he has like he had a like a good chunk of his money in T-bills, but then the rest of his money was in the explorer companies. And you know, as a geologist, you can read drill results and and understand what what is a good deposit, you know, what is what is a good project, and and things of that nature. And so, he's willing to, you know, explore more of that alpha there.

[00:21:45]Um and he was kind of talking about like he's pretty much invested in these companies for eventually a takeover or acquisition or whatnot, where uh you find a really good uh project with really good um deposits and things of that nature. And then eventually, they get, you know, bought out by a um larger company or whatnot.

[00:22:06]Is that kind of like the name of the game? Or or do you think there's a uh or do you have a different approach with that?

[00:22:14]>> No, that's that's a professional's approach. You know, somebody who can call up the CEO of a miner and then grill them for 20 minutes and then come away with a good idea of what those guys are doing. And uh that's 1/10 of 1% of the population who has that kind of a background and that kind of experience. So, for the rest of us, you want to be a lot more careful.

[00:22:35]Because you just don't know, and you don't know what you don't know. That's the the problem with any kind of a new field that that is in any way technical.

[00:22:43]So, you need to be very careful with um with with the kinds of stocks that we're talking about when uh when we're looking at uh explorers and and even junior miners. So, you know, one one solution to that is to watch what some of the really strong players in the space are doing and then emulate them. You know, so you aren't necessarily understanding what you're doing. You're placing a bet on that person, you know, on that on that expert. And um that can work cuz in a lot of cases the experts do just fine.

[00:23:17]So, you can do that, but um you won't know why you succeeded with any of these little companies and it's probably going to be really stressful because stuff is going to happen that you just flat out don't understand. And that's not in general the best way to approach investing.

[00:23:37]You should be in a place where you understand what's happening and you know why it's happening and you know how dangerous it is. So, you know, if you want to look at the the buy list of one of the handful of people in the space who are experts and who have you know, decades of success, reasonable, you know, but you're then kind of buying a a managed mutual fund, right? You know, you're you're buying something and in effect you're giving your money to someone else to manage your money for you and that's an okay thing to do too, you know, it's it's okay to trust an expert with your money as long as the expert turns out to be trustworthy.

[00:24:17]But if you want to do it yourself, you kind of have to understand what you're doing to have a reasonable chance of success.

[00:24:24]>> Mhm. Yeah, for sure.

[00:24:26]Okay, so John, what metals are you most bullish on right now?

[00:24:31]>> Um well, gold and silver, they like you said, they had a nice correction now. So, there there's a decent chance that they resume their bull market sometime in the not too distant future if not right now.

[00:24:42]And so, they look great. Um silver is cheaper than gold based on the gold silver ratio. So, if you're just going to buy one physical, um I would say overweight silver right now. And then uh lot of the miners had very serious corrections, you know, 30 or 40 or 50% in some cases. So, there's some very high-quality cheap names out there now.

[00:25:08]And so, this would be a good time to start a dollar cost averaging program in uh in the gold and silver miners. And then, copper's story is just great. I mean, if AI is going to become what it's going to become or what people think it's going to become, and electric cars turn out to be most of the cars that are on the road, then we're going to need way more copper than we have, which makes copper miners with working mines right now very valuable, and their stocks are great. And same thing with uranium, you know, a lot of the things that we're planning to do as a civilization are going to require a lot more uranium for nuclear power plants than is now being produced by the world's mines. So, those mines are valuable. So, um That That's a list of commodities that are probably going to do really well in the future. And then, there's a a lot more that I really don't know that much about, you know, rare earths and and a lot of things that fall in the uh strategic metals category that are also going to do great. Uh the US government looks looks like they're getting ready to put price floors under a lot of these things, which um would really change the dynamics of that kind of a market because usually the the big risk is that the price falls out of bed one day, and then all of a sudden your mind's not valuable anymore. It's not profitable.

[00:26:22]But if the government is going to name the price at which they're willing to buy unlimited amounts, and you've got a mine that's producing at a lower price, then you're kind of a risk-free asset at that point. So, that I I think there are careers that are going to be made um in the commodity space figuring out how that dynamic plays out and how it applies to the various miners out there.

[00:26:45]But I think just in general, the whole complex is going to do really well.

[00:26:51]>> Are you following the platinum group metals at all?

[00:26:54]>> Uh not not really actively, but I have a sense of uh you know, platinum being a a very useful metal in the auto industry right now. And um and it's it's done really well lately, physical platinum. But I'm I'm not sure what I would say, for instance, the um the rise of electric cars mean for platinum and palladium.

[00:27:16]And that that's an interesting question that I don't know the answer to right now.

[00:27:20]Um and other than that, no. I'm I'm mostly in the big commodities that we just talked about.

[00:27:27]>> Yeah. Yeah. I just I just remember this uh back during uh COVID times when the rhodium was at I think it was over $25,000 an ounce or something. It was something crazy. And I was like, what what is this metal even for, right? And so uh Yeah.

[00:27:42]>> You know, I think if you're a um 25-year-old smart guy and you're thinking of a career, um those those things, like rhodium and the 15 or 20 other things that are in that category that nobody's ever paid attention to, but suddenly they're hot.

[00:27:57]I I think if you wanted to uh build a career unders- by understanding those things and by allocating capital, you know, effectively as their stories play out, you you could um you could make a lot of money over the next 10 or 20 years because um a lot of those things are going to be very hot. And uh right now, hardly anybody knows which one and how it's going to play out. So, you know, if you want to be one of those guys, you would have a really exciting few decades.

[00:28:24]>> Yeah, for sure.

[00:28:25]Uh so, uh your thoughts on uh I know we talked about the economy and such, and we talked about a currency crisis.

[00:28:33]Uh I'm curious in your thoughts on the the metals if we get some type of event where, you know, there's a recession or anything of that nature, depression, whatever.

[00:28:44]Um you know, it seems like these industrial metals, like copper, I mean, silver, some some argue silver's more industrial nature, like these may come under some pressure in that type of situation.

[00:28:58]Uh so, any thoughts you have there?

[00:29:00]>> Well, yeah, here [snorts] here's the scenario that um could be very possible in the not too distant future is that, you know, some tech stocks um peak and then tank as tech stocks tend to do, and that pulls the overall stock market down. And that gets everybody panicked about uh maybe a falling stock market leads to a recession, and then what's going to happen, you know, in other words, a garden variety equities bear market and a garden varieties recession.

[00:29:30]Um those things happen all the time, and it's you know, I'd say we're we're grossly overdue for that kind of thing going forward. So, if that happens, historically, it tends to pull down gold and silver and the other commodities.

[00:29:43]So, in in that happened in 2008, it happened in 2020.

[00:29:49]Um and it was brutal the for a short time for gold and silver and the other commodities. And that's a very possible thing. That could totally happen, and that could cost you 50% or 60% of a commodities portfolio um in the short run. But what happened in both of the times that happened recently previously, and um um and and the times it happened before is that the Fed steps in aggressively to um stop the recession from turning into a depression. So, we get massively easy money. You know, that would be the excuse uh for the Fed to cut interest rates back to zero again, and then ramp up QE, and then maybe even start buying equities this time around. So, that would be really good for gold and silver and the other commodities. And it's highly likely that that's the way the Fed will respond to any kind of real turmoil in the stock market and any kind of you know negative stretch in the economy.

[00:30:48]Um so the question is do you get out of commodities in anticipation of something like that or do you like we talked about just don't sweat the squiggles and just ride it out because if you're doing dollar cost averaging for instance, that means you're putting the same amount of money each month in a list of commodity stocks, let's say.

[00:31:09]Um and the price of the stocks go down, well that's bad for what you own, but it's good for what you intend to buy in coming months, right? Because you get a better deal on those stocks. The same amount of dollars buys you more shares.

[00:31:22]Um so if you look at it from that point of view then you know okay there's there's a correction in the stock market and that leads to a correction in commodities.

[00:31:32]So be it, you know, you keep on buying because you know that um the long-term prize in terms of higher commodity prices is still out there and it's going to happen and now you've got the Fed on your side engineering a new bull market in commodities. So yeah, we could definitely have a disruption in the financial system that leads to commodities dropping.

[00:31:57]But it would probably probably be a V bottom where they tank and then they spike and trading in and out of that would be really hard. So I would say don't try, you know, do not try to trade this market despite the fact that there are some big risks out there in the the short and intermediate terms. Just um steadily acquire and then otherwise don't pay a lot of attention to this stuff. So and and that's psychologically a lot healthier and really financially too because you are not going to be able to successfully catch the top and the bottom um of this kind of a market.

[00:32:31]>> Yeah, it reminds me of a couple of things. One thing Rick told me is that he looked at a study of a big financial institution and and the top performing portfolios were of dead people who who didn't who didn't make any moves or make any trades and things of that nature which which is very very interesting.

[00:32:51]You know, and then also you know, I think in in relation to to what you just shared you know, I'm recalling a you know, watching the Dave Ramsey interview where a couple of I called in and they they had a a lot of silver. They bought silver at the previous top in in 2011.

[00:33:11]And Dave Ramsey, you know, encouraged them to sell all the silver because they were down on their investment. They needed the capital and and so on so forth. And you know, they bought in at over 40 bucks or whatnot, but you know, thinking of it now it's like yeah, they they would have doubled the money, you know, over you know, more than double the money if they would have kept it and didn't pay attention to it, you know, and so it's definitely some sound advice for people to have a long-term view and to not watch their portfolios every 5 seconds.

[00:33:44]>> Yeah, as as long as you're buying the correct stuff. You know, if you've got really high quality assets that are going to get more valuable with time.

[00:33:53]It makes no sense to pay attention to them, you know, go away, you know, hang out at the beach, play golf, come back 20 years later and see how they did.

[00:34:00]Count your new money.

[00:34:02]>> Yep, exactly exactly. Well, appreciate you for coming on the show John.

[00:34:06]Plug the audience where they could find your substack and some of your publications.

[00:34:10]>> Okay, I'm at rubino.substack.com and I I have a >> [snorts] >> newsletter there that looks for actionable advice for the stuff we talked about. And it it turns out, you know, a lot is coming our way and there is a lot of actionable advice for exploiting it.

[00:34:24]>> Okay, sounds good. Well, you all have the information. Thank you all for watching. Please subscribe if you haven't subscribed yet. Love to have your support and John, thank you for your time.

[00:34:34]>> Thanks, Daryl. Take care.