EXPLOSIVE Charles Bronson debate | Should he be released? Featuring Vanessa Frake and the public

[00:00:00]What's your fault on Charlie Bronson?

[00:00:01]Should he be released?

[00:00:02]>> John Arc, you said uh who cares what hostages? What?

[00:00:05]>> Who cares, mate? Cuz as long as they're not harming, then what's the point? Who cares about a hostage?

[00:00:10]>> Well, maybe you belong in there with him, John.

[00:00:12]>> He had him tied up like a hog.

[00:00:14]>> That's not nice.

[00:00:15]>> He paraded him round the cell like a dog.

[00:00:18]>> He took four or five people hostage.

[00:00:21]>> Yeah. Prison guards. Prison guards. So, like he's in prison.

[00:00:24]>> What are prison guards? Not are they are they worthless? I think that Charlie Brunson is a is an individual who is very dangerous and people don't realize that.

[00:00:36]>> John as a neighbor.

[00:00:37]>> Yeah, mate. He's s >> I'd be his best friend.

[00:00:40]>> What do you if he took you hostage and tagged you? Would you be his mate?

[00:00:42]>> I remember asking my dad like after I'd seen like this film.

[00:00:46]>> Oh, like he doesn't seem so bad. My dad was like, "No, you've got no idea." Like he said he's a pain in the bum.

[00:00:53]Seriously, but for his own safety, I don't think he should be released. We cannot release him. Going to have people like HS Ticky Tocky Ed Matthews. Oh, I've been to see Charlie Bronson. Yeah, but then when he kicks off at Yeah.

[00:01:05]You're going to you're going to put it on the internet and say, "Oh, look. This is a real Charlie Bronson." Yeah, but you you provoked him to do this.

[00:01:12]>> We're now discussing whether he should be released on the outside. somebody's behavior in an institution where you're blocked off from the outside world, from your family, from everything you know, your behavior can change. How can you then extend that sentence to longer than, and I'm not going to say the words, but I'm I'm pretty sure anyone in the chat and yourself can imagine what I would say longer than other crimes.

[00:01:35]>> It's Charlie Brunson's fault that he's in still in prison.

[00:01:43]>> Which fault on Charlie Brunson? Should he be released? I think it's disgrace.

[00:01:47]He's never killed anybody. No.

[00:01:48]>> What's the danger with him?

[00:01:49]>> Um the fact that he's taken is it four or five hostages.

[00:01:54]Um the fact that he did it for his pleasure because every time he did it, he wanted to better his record on the last one. So if he took a hostage for 10 hours, the first one, he'd take another one for 15 hours. The third one he'd take for 24 hours. And the the last one he took, which was an education teacher, he had him tied up like a hog. That's not nice.

[00:02:24]>> He paraded him round the cell like a dog. He kept him for two days. The man never worked again, >> you know, and people forget that about Charlie Bronson. Um I I absolutely know his his original crime was a seven-year for burglary. Whether Charlie Brunson himself could actually manage outside, whether his his um his need to be that cruel and and treat people like that has gone. I don't know. Um, and that's something for the parole board and obviously, but I I think that Charlie Brunson is a is an individual who is very dangerous and people don't realize that. They think, "Oh, poor old Charlie been in there."

[00:03:21]But he has made it. So, he's still in there. Not Not anybody else. you know, he got um he got I can't remember the sentences he got, but each one that he took hospital hostage, he got a prison sentence for. So, it's Charlie Brunson's fault that he's in still in prison.

[00:03:42]Don't get me wrong, Charlie Bronson is a very talented guy. He can draw. He can write books.

[00:03:47]>> He's got loads of published books.

[00:03:49]>> Yes. Yeah, he has. But but is he is he a danger to the public? I don't know.

[00:03:56]That's not my decision, thankfully. That is the parole board's decision.

[00:03:59]>> I don't think they want to take that risk, do they?

[00:04:02]>> Well, it depends. I mean, he's just been moved to Wakefield, you know, so he hasn't his his behavior if he if his behavior had calmed down whilst in prison, you know, he's a six-man unlock, so it takes six staff to unlock him still. He's still at a high security jail. So he hasn't worked his way down to a lower security because he can't.

[00:04:28]>> John Ar, you said uh who cares what hostages? What?

[00:04:31]>> Who cares, mate? Because as long as they're not harming, then what's the point? Who cares? Wow. A hostage. How many hostages point of a hostage, John? John, do you really think people who have been held hostage haven't been harmed? If it's not physically, you do have to be, you know, let's say it's with a weapon, which none of this has been done with. Okay. Being held hostage even that even if it was they didn't even lay a finger on a hostage still serious psychological serious psychological trauma and like the host there said yeah you can laugh. What are you going to laugh? Let's say you had a daughter who was held hostage by Charles who was held hostage by Charles Bronson and they came home saying daddy daddy you know my I feel so messed up because of this has happened. What are you going to laugh in their face? grown man having psychological damage because Charles Brunson held them hostage. [laughter] >> Come on, man.

[00:05:25]The man mentioned the art teacher.

[00:05:28]>> I don't like teachers, man. I'm glad he did that. I'll be honest. I'll be I'll be 100% honest here.

[00:05:32]>> Well, maybe you belong in there with him, John.

[00:05:35]>> Maybe you belong in there with him. You guys can have a nice time nice time talking about how, you know, none of it matters and it's all >> You're just a liberal. It's not like he's m someone.

[00:05:44]>> I'm not a liberal at all. I'm actually very rightwing actually. very rightwing.

[00:05:48]>> Well, the thing about Charlie, he's been in it like 100 years, >> right? Just let him go, man. What you would call right, mate.

[00:05:54]>> So, Matt, Matt, just let me say to John, John, so why would you Right. Right.

[00:05:57]Okay. You're saying about the Let's just Let's just talk about the hostage situation on a serious note. One second.

[00:06:03]Right. So, he was obvious he went into prison for armed robbery. I think it was like seven years. That's what I was told by the former governor of Wormwood Scrubs, NBA, Vanessa Freight, the other day. right now people and I was one of them up until a few days ago that was like if he's only ever done an armed robbery why is he still inside he's never killed anyone but then I was told he's took four or five people hostage >> yeah prison guards prison guards so like he's in prison >> what are prison guards not are they are they worthless >> mate if you're in prison right and you're being forced to be there of course you're going to have resentment you're going to be like let me just hold them off see how they feel >> I don't what are you Yeah.

[00:06:44]>> Yeah. But they've not committed any crimes, have they? A prisoner a prisoner. You understand that obviously prisoners have a reason for being in prison?

[00:06:50]>> Yeah. [ __ ] really. Are you are you that are you that thick, John?

[00:06:54]>> I understand. I mean, >> but do you think are you making a point then? Sorry, John. Then why are you making a point if you understand that?

[00:07:01]>> His perspective, right? He's in there for seven years. So why doesn't he just take a bunch of prison guys?

[00:07:06]>> Well, it wasn't seven years. It was with it was within the one of the first, you know, one of the first months that he was actually incarcerated. think it's acceptable to take held Andy Love Andy Love hostage?

[00:07:18]>> M. Let me say this, John. Do you think it's acceptable to take and it wasn't a prison officer to take a teacher who's obviously come from the outside? Do you think it acceptable to take a teacher and uh hog tie them for 24 to 48 hours, drag them around the dock? Do you think that's acceptable?

[00:07:36]>> Look, I have a personal I don't really like teachers.

[00:07:38]>> Do you think that's acceptable?

[00:07:40]>> I didn't say it's acceptable, right? I'm I'm not saying you did. I'm asking you.

[00:07:44]>> Um I personally think it's a good thing.

[00:07:45]I don't like teachers.

[00:07:48]>> You sound like a fool.

[00:07:49]>> Can you act seriously?

[00:07:52]>> Yeah. John, you can't come up. You can't come up to have an intellectual conversation about an actual an actual person and then come up and try and be in your high horse and then just make some some jokey comments. You know what I mean?

[00:08:05]>> First of all, first of all, she wasn't hog tied. Second of all, >> hold on. No, right. It was a he by the way and he was hog tied. I was told by the governor I think they've got I think they >> okay let's say he where he was hog tied twice. Uh yeah obviously that's terrible. He's a grandad.

[00:08:21]>> He he hog tied the teacher. That is fact.

[00:08:24]>> He's a grandad.

[00:08:24]>> Unless the governor has your logic then John. John using it.

[00:08:29]Well he's actually not. He's you know what I mean but using your logic John.

[00:08:33]Okay. Let's take anybody. Let's take, you know, Jeffrey Dharmmer, John Wayne Gasey, Ted Bundy, any of these people.

[00:08:41]>> No, no, he can't do that. They killed people. Has this guy? No, he hasn't.

[00:08:45]>> Well, okay.

[00:08:47]>> You can't compare.

[00:08:48]>> But if you look at No, no. If you look at, if you look at the, you know, what's going on in their brains, it's quite similar.

[00:08:55]>> Post-traumatic stress disorder. Of course, it is post-traumatic stress disorder, paranoid schizophrenia.

[00:09:02]The man is clinically insane. So even if he has all that, he still hasn't killed him.

[00:09:06]>> Let's take anybody that's clinic. Let's take anybody that's that's clinically insane.

[00:09:10]>> There should be a mental hospital. Why is he in prison? Why is in isolation?

[00:09:13]Who >> he was in a mental hospital? He wasn't.

[00:09:15]>> How long did they put him in isolation for?

[00:09:18]>> Somebody just put Let Charles live next door to John [laughter] as a neighbor.

[00:09:23]>> Yeah, mate. He s his best friend unironically.

[00:09:27]>> What would you do?

[00:09:29]>> What would you do if he took you hostage and hugged you? Would you be his mate?

[00:09:31]>> He's a granddad. Now I was going to do that with his walking cane. He's bit me off.

[00:09:34]>> Really? Have you seen the size of him?

[00:09:37]>> Yeah, but he's a granddad, mate. Free Charlie. Free Charlie Bronson hero.

[00:09:40]>> John Fur is a granddaddy. He'd probably smash you in.

[00:09:44]>> Jimmy Savile never unaligned anybody to our knowledge.

[00:09:48]>> Well, >> he was doing that when he was way. He was a grandad.

[00:09:52]>> He was a grandad, wasn't he? Savile was doing all that crap. Very likely Savo is alive people, but it's different because um he's been in prison for like 50 years in isolation.

[00:10:04]>> Curse, you carry on, guys. Yeah, Kirsty, you can. Yeah, guys, we're going to give you another minute. I'm going to get a couple of others in.

[00:10:10]>> All right, >> but it started out it started out a little bit like kind of >> Okay, so let's get the record clean.

[00:10:18]>> He hasn't raped anyone. He hasn't murdered anyone. He kidnapped an art teacher about 50 years ago, which I don't even like teachers, so fair play.

[00:10:24]Hey, you don't like teachers, but they are people.

[00:10:27]>> They are people, mate. But like they're jarring.

[00:10:29]>> Wow.

[00:10:30]>> You wouldn't even be you wouldn't even be talking about or using your advice without teachers in your life.

[00:10:36]>> That's not true. So >> you're home educated by by family.

[00:10:41]>> Yeah, I was actually home educated. So second of all, he's a granddad now, right? When you're this old, he's been in isolation. The government state is putting >> You keep using the word granddad. I mean, he's in his 70s. Doesn't mean he can't go and hurt somebody.

[00:10:55]>> Yeah, but we find it quite hard to hurt anyone, mate. He's 70. What? Like he wants to He said >> he can hurt. He can hurt people who are He can hurt in children.

[00:11:04]>> He has intention.

[00:11:05]>> He could hurt young children.

[00:11:06]>> He has intention. No, we know he hasn't done that ever. He has intention for rehabilitation.

[00:11:10]>> Yeah, cuz he's been in prison for most of for most of that time. There aren't young children.

[00:11:15]>> Where there aren't where there aren't young children, John, but put them out into the street. That's why prison's different. Okay. Because in prison, you don't have stuff like that.

[00:11:22]>> Show me one child. You don't have people. The only innocent people that you've got in prison are the prison guards. And even those are the people.

[00:11:29]>> Show me one child he attacked. I'll agree with you. I'll listen to you right now. Show me.

[00:11:33]>> Are you not listening to my to my point here? I'm telling you that the reason that he hasn't hurt any children is because he's been in prison for most of his life where there aren't any young children.

[00:11:42]>> He's been brawling with men. He's not been attacking children.

[00:11:45]>> Guys, I'm going to have to get some more.

[00:11:46]>> They're not listening. John, are you are you just are you just shutting your ears?

[00:11:50]>> Listen. attacked any children >> because he's been in prison most of his life where there aren't young children.

[00:11:56]>> So that means so you're automatically assuming he's going to attack children for no reason. You got no evidence, no intention.

[00:12:01]>> That's what you do. Okay. When you don't want somebody out streets, if he was a ng agree with the whole point of putting somebody in prison >> flipping hell.

[00:12:15]>> So I need to Sorry, I need to get the next people in. Thanks for thanks for your contribution, boys.

[00:12:19]>> All right. Kirsty.

[00:12:21]>> Hello. How are you?

[00:12:22]>> I'm all right, thank you. Are you?

[00:12:24]>> Yeah, not too bad.

[00:12:27]>> Hello, Nick. How are How are you, mate?

[00:12:29]>> I'm all right, thank you very much. I hope you're okay, Kirsty.

[00:12:32]>> No, I'm not too bad. Thank you.

[00:12:34]>> Well, this is this is different to the start of the last one. [laughter] So, uh, Kirsty, I'll ask you first.

[00:12:39]Where do you stand on the question I pose above?

[00:12:42]>> Um, so I think that a lot of people commenting don't really know what they're talking about. And I think that like a bit with the Cray twins, people will see people like this portrayed in media. So they saw Tom Hardy play him, they think, "Oh, he's so cool. He likes art and all this other stuff." And >> Tom Hardy is like a quite a popular actor in it.

[00:13:04]>> Yeah. So people got this idea of what someone is and it's just not true. So um before my dad's just retired from the police before he was in the police he was a prison officer for a long time and so he met Charles Bronson on many occasions because at the time they had him on it was like a prison rotation I guess so he'd be at one prison for however long then another one and went around a bit and I was like I remember asking my dad like after I'd seen like this film oh like he doesn't seem so bad my dad was like no you've got no idea like he said he's a pain in the bum like to put it politely, I was going to say um a rud word, but he said he's just like >> he my dad thought he didn't want to come out. And his reason for that was because he kept committing crimes inside and sometimes they'd be over nothing, like really trivial, petty things. I mean, as a prison officer, you just wouldn't even turn your back to him at one moment because he was just renowned for like randomly jumping people. Um, you know, he'd do things like if you had two prison officers escort a prisoner somewhere around the prison and normally it would be well say there were two that might be the standard he that would wouldn't be enough for him. He'd kick off because oh why are there only two of you? I need more you know like >> are you aware that Charlie Bron Charles Bronson is a sixman unlock? Did you know that?

[00:14:25]>> Well there you go. Six people not five.

[00:14:27]Yeah because >> six people need to unlock it. And also as well we was you I don't know when you came into this this live but um I'll just say again in case you weren't here. So I I interviewed the former governor of Worwood Scrubs >> the other day Vanessa Frank MBE um she started out at Hol and this came up and I said I was I said why has he not been released? He's never killed anyone. It was only armed robbery. And that's when I learned that's when I learned about the four to five prison officers and not just officers but teachers. Well, a teacher that he took hostage and he hog tied a teacher for 24 to 48 48 hours who never worked again. Now >> was that Can I just interrupt? Was that you were there, Nick? Where do you stand?

[00:15:13]>> [clears throat] >> Uh I seriously for his own safety I don't think he should be released for his own safety >> then. Pardon?

[00:15:22]>> Are you both in agreement? You uh >> Yeah, I think so.

[00:15:25]>> Yeah. Yeah. But but this is only because of Charlie's safety. If he gets released, he's not he's not going to live a quiet life. He's going to have influencers influencers at his door.

[00:15:36]He's going to have cameramen at his door. is he's going to end up flipping his [ __ ] because he's not used to he's only used to being by himself. He'sn't used to having mass amount of people around him and he'sn't used to this outside world that it is today. If he comes out, he doesn't know what an iPhone is. He doesn't know what a a flat he might Yeah, he might know what a flat screen is and he might have a phone in his cell, but he doesn't it doesn't stand.

[00:16:03]>> It's a good take. It's a good take that.

[00:16:04]And I said to Vanessa, the governor, I well, sorry. Well, she said for me, she said, "I don't know if he'd be I don't know if he'd cope."

[00:16:12]>> No, he wouldn't. He would not. I was talking to my dad the other day and I'm saying, "We cannot release him. We We cannot because he's there's going to be you're going to have people like HS TikTok, Matthews, KSI, people like that wanting that just that little clip of him. Oh, I've been to see Charlie Bronson." Yeah. But then when he kicks off at Yeah. you're going to you're going to put it on the internet and say, "Oh, look, this is a real Charlie Bronson." Yeah, but you you provoked him to do this.

[00:16:41]>> Someone said in the comments, "Oh, I'm biased cuz my dad was It's just like it's not like that at all." Like I used to be in town with my dad, like we go to the cinema or something and someone would say hello to him from across the road like or all right or whatever.

[00:16:52]They'd say they'd always call you GV even if you know you're not the gov, but they'll just say go and then they'd be chatting for five minutes and afterwards I'll be like, "Oh, who was that?" My dad was like, "Oh, that's like an excon from the prison." Like because you know you meet loads of people in prison who you have great chats with. They're not bad people. Do you know what I mean? It's not like they're it's prison officers versus prisoners. Like a lot of people you can chat to and get on with and they're getting on with things in there and they're quite well behaved and whatever. Um so it's not as clear-cut as, oh, he's a prison officer. He hates all prisoners. That's why he hates Charlie. Free Charlie. No, he was like so unpredictable and violent and he had a reputation that he went out of his way to like maintain basically. Um, and I think that because of that, my dad said he just felt like he didn't want to come out like he was scared to come out so he had to keep maintaining this bravado and like keep going.

[00:17:52]>> Hold on. Sorry. John John Ar John who is in the previous call. If you're in prison, you are going to have resentment against who imprisoned you. The the prison officers didn't in they don't imprison people. The prison officers, it's the judge.

[00:18:07]>> Judge isn't the police. It isn't the Yes. It's the court. Well, not even the judge gives you your sentence.

[00:18:14]12 people like me and like and like you and like Kirsty >> and like John >> from it's a jury of your peers isn't it?

[00:18:24]So yeah, >> he had he had his trial, but I mean, you know, going back to the point of which what I said to the governor, like if he's only done an armed robbery and he's not killed anyone, and that was when I learned like you can prison officer or not, right? And I'm what prison officers, right, my my opinion, I didn't even used to like really have a second thought about prison officers. Now, I've got a lot of respect for what they do because I've learned a lot more about what um what prison officers actually have to do.

[00:18:56]>> I would not be able to do it so hard.

[00:18:59]>> Not just opening doors. It's like you're a counselor. You're an agony aunt.

[00:19:02]You're um paramedic. You cut people down. You give CPR. You've got >> You're doing the worst of the worst, didn't you?

[00:19:09]>> Oh, someone said I'm waffling.

[00:19:10]Apparently, I've not told you spelled my name wrong for a start with an IE like Kirsty Ali and Kirsty. Get it right. No offense. They're actually correct.

[00:19:18]>> I know. Literally, I'm like like Kirsty Ols, not the other way. No.

[00:19:24]>> This is this is a phoneal phone in where I want people to talk.

[00:19:28]>> This is the thing. She hasn't told us.

[00:19:30]>> People just I've read some comments. Oh, yeah. They're going to release Ed Matthews just to get an interview or KSI just >> I'm [snorts] not saying they specifically want an interview with him, but >> I know what you're saying. influencers are going to go up to in even new influencers, people that have never had no internet like they've never been online. They're going to start a Tik Tok channel based on Charlie Bronson because he's he's free and they want the clicks and they want the views.

[00:20:00]>> Someone just put them, sorry to interrupt there. Someone put he needs to be releaseed. It's absolutely inhumane, right? But >> no, that's ridiculous.

[00:20:07]>> They can take more prison officers and a teacher hostage. Is that not inhumane to them? If you want to prove that you're um safe to go out back into society and you are not a criminal, then why are you committing further crime? It's like having an animal that's injured itself that's lived in the wild for I don't know the first 3 four years of its life and then it gets injured and then you keep it in captivity till let's say I don't know 3 4 years before the end of its life and then you go oh go back to captivity that animal isn't going to be able to survive in captiv uh in in the wild because it's it's so used to being in captivity now >> there's a few so there's a arguments for why we've got I like this chat here between Kirsty and Nick because you've got you're on both you're on the same side of the coin but you're coming at it from different angles.

[00:21:04]You have to look at things more >> he's a danger to society. I hope I'm I'm right with what with that.

[00:21:13]>> Yeah, kind of. I mean, don't get me wrong, >> it's not just a sorry, >> but Nick Nick says you're you're more that the world is going to be quite a scary place for Charles Bronson. Can he handle it? And like the influencer thing, people going up to him and yeah, if you do the the the world we live in now, he has no idea about what how it is with phones and then someone goes up to him with a phone like, "Yo, selfie."

[00:21:39]>> Let's somebody let's say somebody rage bites him and he smacks him in the face.

[00:21:43]What's the first thing that's going to happen? The minute he comes out, the minute he does something, what's the first thing that's going to happen?

[00:21:49]>> Straight back to jail.

[00:21:51]>> So, it's it yeah, it is inhumane to keep him in there, but it's also inhumane to release him because he it isn't he hasn't got a life outside of jail anymore.

[00:22:04]>> Final I'm going to wrap it shortly.

[00:22:06]Final thoughts from from Kirsty, then you Nick, and then I'll wrap it. And thank thanks for the contributions.

[00:22:11]Watch. I just want to say I don't know explicitly the last time he was violent because I do think that in the last say you know the best part of the last 10 years. It sounds like he's been a lot more isolated um than he was before. But I do know that his parole was denied most recently I think in 2023.

[00:22:31]And >> that is >> it's because they didn't deem him as, you know, I think his um attitude perhaps towards some of his behaviors um he he'd see a lot of them as justified.

[00:22:42]So it's like they they couldn't kind of discern, you know, how he would behave if he came out. So they didn't feel comfortable granting parole. That's what I think it was. Um so I think for now, yeah, it's probably best that he is where he is. That's not to say he hasn't calmed down, but I think people do need to not gloss over what he's done since he's been inside, cuz that is what has kept him in there so long.

[00:23:05]>> That that is and the governor did say to me that Charlie Bronson is why Charlie Bronson is still inside. I'm going to I'm going to um get Thank you to you two. I'm going to get one more person in because I've had three out of four that are all Charlie Bronson to stay in and I think it's fair that someone called in who wants who thinks it should be released. So, 10 years. Sorry. If he only did 10 years, I'd say yeah, release him. He's not He's still kind of got a life, but he's he's done his whole life, whole adult life. He doesn't know like I don't even imagine he knows. I know he can look after himself, but on his own. Do you know what I'm saying?

[00:23:45]>> Yeah, he makes some good points, Nick.

[00:23:47]I'm going to I'm going to um get someone in who thinks that he should be released. But thank you for your contributions, guys.

[00:23:53]>> You're welcome. Have a good day, bro.

[00:23:55]See you later. Take care. Byebye.

[00:23:57]>> Byebye.

[00:23:58]>> Yeah, he should definitely be released.

[00:24:00]>> What's your name first? Just >> my name's Stephan. Sorry. Stephan for I don't have a real name.

[00:24:05]>> Yeah, Luke would say should be released.

[00:24:08]>> And why is that?

[00:24:10]>> Because regardless of what happened, what he's done, nobody's even brought up what he was put in for in the first place.

[00:24:19]>> The armed robbery, wasn't it?

[00:24:22]>> Sorry.

[00:24:22]>> Arm robbery.

[00:24:24]Yeah. Right. And how many armed robbers have been put in prison and released since he got convicted and put prison?

[00:24:35]Nobody's even brought up what he was put in for in the first place.

[00:24:39]>> The armed robbery, wasn't it?

[00:24:41]>> Sorry.

[00:24:42]>> Armed robbery.

[00:24:44]>> Yeah. Right. And how many armed robbers have been put in prison and released since he got convicted and put prison?

[00:24:54]>> Probably quite a few.

[00:24:56]>> Thousands. Tens of thousands.

[00:24:59]>> Are you aware of the fact that he took five people hostage though? Five innocent people inside.

[00:25:05]>> Right. However, we're now discussing whether he should be released on the outside. Somebody's behavior in an institution where you're blocked off from the outside world, from your family, from everything. You know, your behavior can change. Okay. He didn't harm anyone when he's arrested. Armed robbery. Okay. Emotional distress, possibly. Okay.

[00:25:26]>> Yeah. Absolutely. Someone was hog tied for nearly two days and paraded around the cell like a dog.

[00:25:33]>> I was talking about I was talking about the initial the initial crime, not the not inside prison.

[00:25:38]>> What the armed robbery? the armed robbery. Yeah.

[00:25:40]>> Okay.

[00:25:41]>> So, nobody was physically harmed. I think the the sentence he got given for armed robbery, which is like a terrible crime anyway. I get it. Right. However, >> it happens is like people are desperate.

[00:25:54]They they commit these crimes. It's why we have a justice system and you get given a sentence based on your crime.

[00:26:00]Yeah.

[00:26:01]>> Yeah. How can you then extend that sentence to longer than, and I'm not going to say the words, but I'm I'm pretty sure anyone in the chat and yourself can imagine what I would say, longer than other crimes.

[00:26:13]>> Right now, so I get what you're saying.

[00:26:16]He's not had his sentence extended. He's he's >> Well, he has technically cuz he hasn't been released. I I know you can semantics and wording and whatever.

[00:26:25]>> Charged with further crimes, which is a which is which is a new custodial sentence. not been extended, >> but only for him. Like there is certain things that happen within the prison system where you commit a crime when you're in prison and it's not an extended it's more like you can get other things done. Okay. Sometimes it does um result in an extended prison sentence. Anyway, my my thing about this is now is people are saying the reason I wanted to join, sorry before I take up too much of your time, you get somebody else in.

[00:26:58]People saying, "Oh, he wouldn't survive.

[00:27:00]He wouldn't survive when he gets out >> like in the UK." The reason I want to join, sorry, is the guy talking about influencers going to his door. If anybody thinks that he would stay in the UK when he's released is mental.

[00:27:15]>> Yeah, >> he would not stay in the UK. He'd immediately move. I'm telling you right now, he would be somewhere else. He's got so many supporters. I'm not saying right or wrong about I'm not I'm on neither side. But you should be released because it's [ __ ] language. Sorry.

[00:27:29]It's ridiculous.

[00:27:30]>> Go ahead, mate. It's fine. It's fine.

[00:27:32]>> It's absolutely ridiculous that you kept in prison for that long. There is people >> Can I ask you a different question? Why do you think that the Why do you think that they're keeping him in? Do you think there's an agenda?

[00:27:47]>> I think he knows a lot more about the prison system than people let on. I have personally um spent time at her majesty's pleasure um like before she died. Um and it is a it's the worst system I think for for we've got a democracy and we've got human rights that are better than the rest of I'm not talking about Mexican prisons or American prisons who get away with a lot. The UK is supposed to well in my opinion it's wrong have like the most lenient presence in the world but when you're in there there is some [ __ ] that goes on that you're just like how why and what no wonder somebody kicks off now and again like if they're in there for too long like it's honestly like it's it's mentally draining the rate in UK prisons is higher than most prisons around the world.

[00:28:40]>> Okay. you made you made some um you made some good points. Do you do you believe that he should be released? And do you so you think if he came out if he did come out, you think he'd go live abroad somewhere?

[00:28:53]>> But the thing is you can't tell what he'd be like if he was released until you release him. But then if it goes well, it's just I think this is another thing. If they release him and he becomes an outstanding member of society and like continues his art and gives all the money to charity and and like helps people, the government are going to be looked at and be like, "Why have we kept this man in for so long long?" Yeah. If he comes out and he does what some people have said he might do and turn on everybody and end up committing another crime, then they're right.

[00:29:25]>> They have to they're going to weigh that up and be like, "Oh, is it worth the risk letting him out if he's going to end up being like um figure and then we will have to end up in government being like cuz he he hasn't even got like a um is it an IP like an indefinite prison term? I think that's what it's called. He hasn't got one of them. Some people do. There's people still in prison now who committed three offenses and got IPs when they were 18 years old who are still in prison at like 42. I follow some of them accounts like mothers trying to get the kids out who have been like aren't like Charles Bodson and who have been in prison for like 30 years on full term sentences. Not life cuz we don't have that in the UK. We've got life with a minimum but we we actually do have >> we have whole life service here, don't we?

[00:30:15]>> We we do have whole life I think I think they're called IPs. I think >> I'm not sure. I know. I know. I One of my latest videos on my other uh on YouTube, Break the Ice, is uh the 10 10 worst in my opinion whole life tariff uh prisoners. Uh funnily enough. Um >> went for too long or actually worse than should be in.

[00:30:37]>> No, as in um so there's about 70 whole life t prisoners in this country and uh one of them is a very very controversial one, but that's a different video.

[00:30:47]That's Lucy Leby. There's lots of work on my channel about Lucy. I believe she's innocent. That's a whole different story.

[00:30:53]>> Oh, no, no, I get that. No, but there's there's ones where like the whole life tariff is um not what I'm talking about.

[00:30:59]I maybe I'm somebody can be correct me.

[00:31:01]It's IP or something like that where it's like you commit so many crimes and like oh for the for the safety of the public you're like you're in prison until we decide you can get out. It's not a whole life tariff. They could get out tomorrow if they want to >> if they want to let them, but like they're in there until it's decided whether or not they can get out.

[00:31:22]>> He's like So I I'm not sure about this.

[00:31:24]So are you saying that you you believe he's not got like a he's not got a date of release. It's just ongoing. He doesn't know.

[00:31:31]>> No, he had he had the date of release and they keep extending it, don't they?

[00:31:36]>> Yeah, they do keep extending it. And then that's >> But there's there's a different sentence for other people. I'm not going to try and say the name again, so I'm probably getting it wrong and embarrassing myself, but I do think it might be called IP, right?

[00:31:48]>> But could you imagine spending that many years in like isolation with the only people you have contact with being the people who are keeping you in there? I know they're not they didn't put him in there.

[00:31:58]>> They're the people tasked with keeping him in there.

[00:32:00]>> It would make it would make you like a caged a caged tiger, wouldn't it? And yeah, I do know what you're um I do know the point you're trying to make there.

[00:32:08]They're the only people that he can thrust that frustration and anger out out onto.

[00:32:14]>> Now, could you imagine if he was released? Because I've heard um like I know this is like I haven't read too much in there, but I've I've heard like um is it whoever played him in the film?

[00:32:25]What's his name again?

[00:32:28]>> Um I think it was British actor. Yeah. He spoke to him. He was so nice to him. Maybe because he was and by the way, he made no money from that film. He wasn't allowed to.

[00:32:38]>> Oh, really?

[00:32:39]>> But he was still a very like willing participant in it and like then helped him out and spoke to him and even he said he was he seemed like a very genuine, kind, nice guy. See, I met him whatever. Some of this frustration could literally just be from isolation. I mean like I work I work away from home, right? And I stay in hotel rooms, different hotel room every night on my own with no one around me that I know. I get frustrated. Could you imagine that and not being allowed out? It's like cab. It's called cabin fever, isn't it?

[00:33:09]When you're like, >> it's mental. So, if you let him out, he could be the nicest person in the world.

[00:33:14]But I'm just going to go back to my original point. He did commit a crime which is punishable. I think it's anywhere between 4 years and 12 years depending on the severity of it. Yeah.

[00:33:23]If nobody was injured. Yeah. He's been in that long for a crime. And other people have been released who have literally committed crimes against children. Manslaughter like prop like against women the worst one are are out and walking the streets again.

[00:33:42]>> I've got a list of his right. This is from some Oh, this is Hey Kirsty. She was in the uh previous one. Crimes in 1974 7578 85 88 92 94 97 99 2014.

[00:33:56]Um okay. Right. I'm I want I want to bring something up that you said. It was a really good point. Right. You said before about if they released him and he was like, you know, a golden member of society and a standup citizen, then, you know, it might be like [ __ ] we could have done this years ago. The backlash that we've not released him is going to be massive. Yeah. But if they release him and if they release him and um he's a he's a menace, then it's going to be we're now in the [ __ ] cuz we've released him. You've released them. So, it's it's a catch 22. It's a it's a >> lose-lose situation for them.

[00:34:32]>> Finish it for me. Damn if they do.

[00:34:36]>> I'll say and damn if they don't. You left me hanging there.

[00:34:38]>> Yeah. Lose lose situation. That's what it is. Like, so that's why in my person that's why they're not doing it. Cuz either way, if he's in there, they can take the [ __ ] about not releasing him.

[00:34:47]As soon as they release him, one way the other, whatever way it goes, they're going to be questioned about it.

[00:34:54]>> Right. That's a fascinating call. Some really good points there. I'm going to I'm going to call it there. Thank you for calling in.

[00:35:00]>> No worries at all.