XRPLV26 Brad Garlinghouse - Sphere Blocks XRP? - OCC Bank Charter & RLUSD - The Clarity Act

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]I I did get a chill.

[00:00:01]>> Look at that standing ovation.

[00:00:02]>> Great. Welcome. Thank you.

[00:00:04]>> How are you?

[00:00:05]>> Nice to see you.

[00:00:05]>> You too.

[00:00:06]>> Good to be back in Vegas.

[00:00:07]>> I was going to say welcome back to Vegas. It's been This is our fourth iteration of the XRP Las Vegas conference. I remember the OG group at Treasure Island.

[00:00:19]>> I remember it well.

[00:00:20]>> Yeah. Yeah. I >> We're much more organized now.

[00:00:23]>> I'd say organized. And just look at this crowd. I mean >> I mean it's indicative I think of how far we have come.

[00:00:31]>> Yeah.

[00:00:31]>> Uh I you know like I still think the opportunity ahead is even further but uh it's been an amazing journey to watch and obviously some of the regulatory stuff has been a very important part of the chapter of the last four years. I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit but uh it's it's really magical to see the number of people that are here. The engagement level seeing the XRP brand up and down the strip uh was pretty cool you know.

[00:00:58]Because usually XRP Las Vegas happens at the same time as Bitcoin and you know the Bitcoin conference is in Vegas, but I think this year you really knew the XRP conference was in Vegas, >> maybe more so than Bitcoin.

[00:01:11]>> Well, like I I will say our goal was not to take anything away from Bitcoin. Like I mean that genuinely. I I like I I I guess I asked for that.

[00:01:29]>> Yeah, you did. You did.

[00:01:31]>> But look, I I as you guys have heard me say before, I believe in a multi-chain world. Uh I do think, you know, you're seeing the bare market impact and I I didn't go over to the Bitcoin conference this year. I did last year, but uh look, the the energy from the XRP community is palpable. I will say one thing that's kind of interesting that is not widely known. You you you like this isn't a public announcement, right? We're just talking just two of us.

[00:01:55]>> Yeah.

[00:01:56]>> Who who here has gone to the sphere?

[00:02:00]>> Okay. I'm calling for an XRP boycott of the sphere. And I want to tell you why.

[00:02:06]We tried to do XRP on the sphere. We thought that'd be pretty cool. They would they said they would do Bitcoin and ETH and not XRP.

[00:02:18]>> That's true. That's a story.

[00:02:20]>> And the way I look at it, thank you to our chief marketing officer at Ripple.

[00:02:23]It actually ended up saving us money because we spent all that money up and down this trip and it's like it worked out better.

[00:02:29]>> Did they say why?

[00:02:31]>> It was not clear. It it it someone was making a judgment within that organization and we thought about kind of escalating but honestly when that stuff happens I'm just like you know what we we'll take our money elsewhere.

[00:02:44]>> It's not like you haven't dealt with things like that for the last several years. We have fought a number of good fights. You know, I as some of you guys know, I also I I sometimes refer to the XRP army as the XRP family, >> RIGHT?

[00:02:57]>> BUT SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO GO TO war and then it's the XRP army >> and then the army shows up.

[00:03:01]>> Yes.

[00:03:02]>> I did want to congratulate you on 11 years as the CEO of Ripple.

[00:03:07]>> Yeah. Crazy. Thank you.

[00:03:10]>> Although I think half of that was spent litigating, >> fighting the fight. Yeah.

[00:03:14]>> Yeah. So that's probably not what you imagined when you went into the job >> for sure. And look, I I at some point I think you know there'll be maybe books written about the whole experience but it's crazy to look back on that experience and I I do think some of the behaviors and I you think emerged into the this landscape during that uh fight but you know I I also I'm an optimist. I focus on some of the good stuff. And I mean I I tweeted about this like the difference of Paul Atkins to Gary Gendler. It's just like wow. You know in in less than a year they provided structured clarity around a whole bunch of stuff. And you wonder like Gary Gendzer was there for four plus years.

[00:03:58]Why why why didn't you take the time?

[00:04:00]You know like you just hired more lawyers to go sue people as opposed to actually let's write down what our what how we view this. And even if I disagreed with it, at least it's clear.

[00:04:10]And in in retrospect, you know, I really do think they're uh I don't I don't really understand why they made some of the decisions they did in that era.

[00:04:19]>> It's been a it's been a journey to get here. And yeah, so I want to get into a lot of things with you and we only have limited time. So I'm gonna race through these questions. But uh >> by the way, I thought your question is for Ashish. But at Ripple, I get made fun of for stealing my team's thunder.

[00:04:35]Well, she stole a bunch of my thunder today.

[00:04:37]>> You think so?

[00:04:38]>> Yeah. He was talking about the clarity act.

[00:04:40]>> Well, he was worried that he wasn't going to measure up to being, you know, your opening act, but he did great.

[00:04:45]>> Yeah, I thought he was great. He did outdress me. Like I went and he wore a tie. Like when he's now like a public company CEO, so he can't say I can actually >> Well, I think we all remember the f the SEC shirt that you >> Oh, we can't say that word anymore.

[00:05:00]Yeah.

[00:05:01]>> I've never sworn on stage, so I don't know if I'm going to start now. That got a lot of attention that that that Yeah, that I don't regret that though. That some of you guys know I I wore a t-shirt to a speaking engagement at a Caner Fitzgerald conference in Miami. I wore a sport coat, but underneath the sport coat, I wore a t-shirt that did say f the SEC.

[00:05:20]>> Yeah.

[00:05:20]>> And you know, >> Yeah.

[00:05:27]>> All right. Well, let's bring it back to the community because we are all here and it is the fourth year of XRP Las Vegas. the community is bigger than ever. And how do you think about Ripple's role, Ripple's engagement with the XRP community these days? Ripple is very much involved with institutions and enterprises these days as you've come back to the US as you're growing. But how do you see your role in the XRP community?

[00:05:53]>> Look, I I I always thought it was kind of funny and strange that people questioned Ripple's commitment to XRP.

[00:06:02]uh today, you know, Ripple is still the largest holder of XRP on the planet. We are the most interested party in seeing XRP be successful. We will continue to be the most interested party in seeing XRP be successful. And so whenever I read people kind of questioning that, I just think like you don't it doesn't make sense logically and it's obviously not what I've said publicly. And Ripple's extremely committed to how do we make XRP the most useful digital asset? How do we make it the most liquid digital asset? How do we make it the most trusted digital asset? And if we can do those things and at the same time by do those things by selling products and services to financial institutions to capital markets around uh what we now call Ripple Prime, right?

[00:06:48]>> I mean, Ripple Treasury has been on a tear. And uh by the way, the other thing people don't know, part of the reason why we did the uh the XRP and Ripple Treasury ads on the strip is the the main competitor to Ripple Treasury is called Kyibba and they were doing their customer conference last few days here in >> Oh, very nice.

[00:07:06]>> Yeah, we a little trolling.

[00:07:12]>> Never heard anybody.

[00:07:12]>> We had we had some wrapped buses that said Ripple Treasury picking people up from the Kyrie conference.

[00:07:20]Yeah, >> that's great. I think Yeah, I mean, you make a good point. I think a lot of people have, you're right, questioned Ripple's loyalty, as it were, to XRP. I think when you rolled out the the stable coin, >> yeah, >> people were like, "Oh, is this going to be the replacement for XRP?" And >> look, I I get it that I I also and you know, maybe this is somewhat frustrating to the XRP community sometimes, but I don't feel the need to constantly update the whole world about our strategy because to some degree that just informs people who want to compete against us.

[00:07:51]And so, you know, look, we're gonna do things that may not at first blush make crystal clear sense >> that but I I swear to you, even if it doesn't have a direct line from point A to point B, point B being good for XRP, it may be point A to point B to point B to point C. It's all in service of how do we do things that expand, grow in driving liquidity, utility, and trust in XRP. And I will keep saying those things. Uh we will keep building around that. I mean, Ripple now is 1500 people strong. We're having a record year in a ton of different ways. Uh, >> you just got back from traveling to your global constituents.

[00:08:28]>> We did do it around the world trip, which by that was uh I'm not doing that.

[00:08:32]That that was too hard.

[00:08:33]>> A lot.

[00:08:33]>> We did four We did Dublin, London, Singapore, Sydney in one week, which is not uh that was too much. Did you see on your travels were there any use cases outside of the Ripple ecosystem for XRP that caught your eye?

[00:08:51]>> I mean like I've talked about this a little bit before. I mean there's a bunch of things that Ripple doesn't focus on that I think and you Ashish I thought did a great job talking about some of these uh the tokenization of various asset classes I think is inevitable. Uh there's a bunch of things around that that are outside Ripple's scope and we want to see other people pursue. Some of those people are obviously the XRP ledger and some of the the vision that the David Schwarzes of the world had 13 14 years ago is just unbelievable to me. You know, it really was the first decentralized exchange.

[00:09:24]The the innate organic tokenization frameworks of you know issuing assets are uh kind of built in at the base level. There's a bunch of industries I don't know that much that much about. I read about things like bond settlement.

[00:09:38]Bond settlement is slow. It is arcane and it is absurd to think about how that works in a world of the internet. And I think it's only a matter of time before you see things like bond settlement move to onchain. And you to the extent Ripple could help catalyze those things to leverage the XRP ledger. Fabulous. But again, I I don't want to leave people the impression it is going to be a multi-chain world. The XRP ledger is exceptionally good at some things and not good at some other things. And that's okay. Like that almost by design, like that's good because if you try to be all things to all people, you're going to be less good at other things.

[00:10:17]You're going to slow the transaction speed down. You're going to impact cost per transaction. you're gonna like we have an amazing underlying infrastructure that's really good for certain things and let's invest and go after those things.

[00:10:29]>> Yeah, >> I think there's been just a little criticism about how, you know, Ripple as a company is just this behemoth now of just wealth, right? You guys have made so many acquisitions. you guys are I think valued at around uh you tell me and I have this number it's >> the last so Ripple did a share buyback at a mark of $50 billion >> $50 billion that's right so $50 billion and you know I think someone suggested recently that there could be a way where Ripple does some kind of like XRP token buyback right in order to you know h the XRP community could you know have some kind of like share in Ripple's wealth and I I understand that's like not you know Ripple the company is separate from the XRP ledger separate from separate from XRP the token but you always go back to the notion that you know XRP is key to everything that Ripple does. Is that something you have explored or anything that Ripple would ever really think about? Well, I mean, so a long circuitous way like another example of tokenization dynamics, the private markets for secondary private companies is not efficient. And you know, some people uh unfortunately got caught up in in this room, I'm sure, got caught up in the link to bankruptcy uh which you're linked to today owns a bunch I think you know a few thank you. I didn't know exactly, you know, 3% of Ripple's equity, which is great, right?

[00:12:03]>> Uh, now that being said, now that they're in this bankruptcy, Ripple's in kind of this awkward position where it's like, do we keep it at arms length? You know, I think some people would like to see us buy that 3%, but then we're in some ways at odds with the community that owns it because we want to buy it back at the cheapest possible price.

[00:12:20]That's our fiduciary obligation, but they want to get the maximum price. So the the likelihood is we just look let's let link 2 do link two. Uh it it's kind of I think wrapping up through the bankruptcy process and there's a structure to sell some of those shares and yeah the secondary market will go in however it goes. The long-term dynamic you know we have not prioritized going public uh as a for a whole bunch of reasons. I mean, one of them is if you've paid attention to IPOs like BitGo and Gemini, uh, these haven't done particularly well.

[00:12:56]>> Kraken's put off their IPO.

[00:12:57]>> Kraken has purportedly delayed their IPO.

[00:13:00]>> Uh, and so like we're just not in a big hurry to go down that path. And I I mean, I obviously was joking a little bit about Ashish is now a public company CEO. There's benefits to being private.

[00:13:11]Like I I could get up here and not kind of say whatever the hell I want to say and you know I'm not I mean within reason well I don't know but you know I'm not going to get a call from the SEC or my incredibly talented legal team saying Brad you can't say that uh they say sometimes anyway, but >> I guess my question is should XRP holders be able to benefit directly from Ripple's, you know?

[00:13:39]>> Well, I mean, look, I hope XRP holders feel like they are benefiting from Ripple's existence by virtue of what we're doing to try to catalyze things within the XRP community, right?

[00:13:48]>> Uh, you know, is there a scenario if and when Ripple goes public, would we do something special for people who hold XRP or something? Maybe. But I I I mean that's not in the immediate term. I view that as kind of like but I I mean to some degree you're asking and let me be clear. I freaking love the XRP family.

[00:14:07]It is such a spe like and so like I want to do things that are good for the XRP community. Like I it is a driving mission and I hope that when Ripple's thinking about an acquisition, we're thinking about it as okay, how does that catalyze things within XRP?

[00:14:24]How when we make investments outside of Ripple, how does that Yeah. How do people adopt XRP? When we help partner, we want a really high class, highquality digital asset treasury company like Evernorth to exist. We think that's good for the community. We think it's good for Ripple shareholders. We think it's good for everybody. Uh and so yeah, we want to see that happen and we'll continue to lean into things like that.

[00:14:45]>> Cool. Let's get to some policy because that's my favorite and I know you like talking about it too. You guys were conditionally approved for a OC trust charter back in December.

[00:14:54]>> I thought we were going to talk about the Clarity Act.

[00:14:55]>> Oh, we're going to get there, too. We got We got five minutes, so we're going to go through this. But the OC trust charter, uh, December. Now, that was a conditional approval. Is there any update on a full approval? What's the timeline you can expect on that?

[00:15:09]>> So, the conditional approval, uh, you know, there's certain things Ripple has to do to kind of the conditions, if you will, right? And those are all things that within our control, and so, uh, we feel very good about that. the first of all again I think it's a direction of travel of seeing Washington lean into and be supportive of this industry is a a very positive sign uh we focused our existing OC conditional approval around what we're doing with RLUSD the stable coin >> and so to have it uh regulated both with the New York department of financial services NYDFS as well as at the OC federal level to some degree it's belt and suspenders we want to be the most white hat around stable coins as possible uh because of our institutional customer base and we think that has served us well and you know we're going to continue to lean in. Now I think that the other part of your question maybe is what else we might want to do there.

[00:16:01]>> I mean look we're we're deep in the payments business and >> I know you guys applied for a master account.

[00:16:05]>> The Fed master account is very much on our radar and uh we think that would be a big unlock for sure. So we're going to continue to pursue that.

[00:16:12]>> Yeah.

[00:16:14]Yeah.

[00:16:16]Now, there's the skinny master accounts which Fed Governor Waller has rolled out.

[00:16:20]>> Yeah.

[00:16:21]>> Is that going to be enough for what you guys want to do? I >> I I'm gonna dodge that question. I'm going to be transparent that I'm dodging it.

[00:16:27]>> Artfully dodge it.

[00:16:28]>> Yeah. I'm not I'm not being artful about it. I'm just telling you I'm dodging it.

[00:16:32]Uh I mean, look, Ripple believes that a you can zoom way out. The United States benefits from better financial services infrastructure. Blockchain is a major unlock. people still discount how big that change will be. Payments is a big one. Uh getting access to a Fed master account I think is good for the United States. Uh I think we'll get there.

[00:16:55]>> All right. Clarity. So we could see a banking markup potentially next month, but can we just talk about where we are now? I mean, we've been hearing that we're going to get this bill for months and months and months, and now it just may be getting out of set at banking next month. So, what's your what's your take on is this frustration going to get Sure. Is that going to get out of the Senate before the midterm elections? Are we going to get a bill before the midterm elections?

[00:17:22]>> Yeah. Uh >> to President Trump's desk.

[00:17:25]>> So, look, I mean, I have gotten way too knowledgeable about how this works in So have I. Like, I This is not something having spent most of my career as a techie in Silicon Valley. I moved to Miami, but I'm still, I guess, a techie from Silicon Valley. Uh the good news has been Ripple has an absolute full seat at the table and uh we our voice is respected, our voice is heard and people care that we are involved and I think people have seen that and that's totally true.

[00:17:57]I'll I'll be transparent that the frustrating part for me is we were on the finish line in three months ago in late January. we were on the finish line and I think uh you know honestly Brian Armstrong team Coinbase was like pause you know let's let's slow this down a minute and I think what they didn't calculate well is that in doing so you create a little bit of a vacuum and in Washington when there's a vacuum fills it right >> and so now you get objections I mean like the amount of things and I think you know this well also but like the number of things that have become problematic for the clarity act. It includes housing because of a certain senator for a Republican senator that you know cares about housing. And so like how does a housing trade impact the Clarity Act? So the frustrating thing is we were on the finish line. It wasn't perfect and I'll be the first to admit that, but it was pretty good. And uh I I it's frustrating to me we find ourselves where we are. I I am still hopeful. I'm using that word a little bit different than optimistic. I'm still hopeful and there is still momentum. But man, uh, watching the sausage get made in Washington is tough to watch.

[00:19:08]>> For sure.

[00:19:09]>> If it doesn't pass and under this bill, I believe Ripple has actually been grandfathered in as a commodity because of the ETF status.

[00:19:18]>> Yeah.

[00:19:19]>> What does this mean for Ripple?

[00:19:21]>> Well, it's grandfathered in two ways.

[00:19:22]And the most important thing, I know Ashish talked about this. People I want everybody here to make sure they understand. XRP has clarity. XRP fought a very painful fight to get clarity where a it's it's a big deal. I we have a a federal judge said in her opinion XRP in and of itself is not a security. Boom.

[00:19:45]We have clarity. Like that's what we care about. Ripple has leaned into supporting the Clarity Act because we think it's good for the industry. It's if we want the largest economy in the world, the United States, to lean into crypto in the way that help, it's good for Ripple if that happens. But XRP has clarity. And so again, there's a certain irony that people talk about. I mean, look, I've chosen to ignore ignore Charles Hoskinson on all this stuff. I'm just like, it's like I ALREADY HAVE CLARITY. LIKE I'M SUPPORTING this because I think it's good for the industry. There's a lot of noise out there. Uh I hope it passes. If it doesn't pass, I think that's unfortunate for a lot of other players in the industry in the United States. And I think what's hard is when I go and talk to CEOs of banks or very senior people banks, they're nervous that the next administration when Paul Atkins is not there that some of these things that are just guidance can change.

[00:20:36]>> Yeah.

[00:20:36]>> And I get it. Like if you're a big financial institution that's had to deal with a a uh SEC that has fined them billions of dollars, you're like, they don't want to take a chance. And so if we want the largest economy in the world to lean in, if we want the US to be as competitive as some other countries around the world in these technologies, we need the Clarity Act to pass >> and it could change as soon as November technically if the House turns blue >> for sure. I mean I my own personal view is we as you introduced in the question we have a few weeks and either this gets out of committee in the Senate Senate Banking Committee if it doesn't get out in the next few weeks it's not going to happen anytime soon >> but you think because of the clarity that XRP has and obviously you guys have come back to the United States you've already started building out your infrastructure here >> we've invested a lot >> invested a lot 100% you think that you guys will be okay >> I think I mean XRP is going to be Okay.

[00:21:32]No matter what. I mean, obviously the SEC CFTC announcement around the guidance was really positive, but again, you got to always go back to an independent federal judge. She was clear. She happened to be an appointee by a Democrat. So, it's kind of like, look, XRP, you guys, good news. We're good. XRP has clarity.

[00:21:53]I >> do want to quickly ask about the midterms just because we could see some change there. Are you concerned that there could be that change there? Are you concerned to the point where you might be thinking about donating some more money to fair shake? Because last election you donated around $50 million to that super PAC in order to get pro crypto folks elected. Is Ripple thinking about making similar donations this time in the midterms?

[00:22:19]>> Look, we will continue to lean into pro- innovation, pro- crypto candidates on both sides of the aisle. uh and you know like I I have been very appreciative that we have in the uh White House a very pro- crypto administration but the laws are passed by Congress and we want to see bipartisan support. I you know I've said this a lot publicly but as you know well the fact that a technology became partisan is just madness. It's just crazy to me like what it's almost like saying, you know, uh I've said this before, email is a partisan issue. Like somehow you hate email because you're a Democrat, but you like email because you're Republican. Like it makes no sense. And it really does start, I think, you know, for people that are here from Massachusetts. Senator Elizabeth Warren like made this an issue by saying, "I'm declaring war and I'm raising a crypto ar an anti-crypto army." Like why? It it's I find it crazy.

[00:23:17]Last one. Everybody that I've seen you sit down for interviews with in the last couple weeks has asked you your prediction for when Clarity will pass.

[00:23:23]So, I'm going to be no different. When is it going to pass?

[00:23:27]>> Oh, boy. I Well, like I feel like I already answered that.

[00:23:30]>> You did, but you didn't give a date.

[00:23:32]>> Uh, you didn't give a month.

[00:23:34]>> What's today? Basically, April 30th. I will give it to the end of the third week in May. If I don't know what the exact date that is. If it doesn't get out of committee by the end of the third week in May, I think we're in real trouble. If it gets out of committee, we're good because it will pass the Senate if it gets out of committee.

[00:23:50]There is bipartisan support at the at the Senate level if it gets out of committee.

[00:23:54]>> You think even with ethics thrown in there?

[00:23:57]>> Well, that's a bigger problem, I think, in the committee than it is on uh the Senate floor.

[00:24:03]>> We'll see. Maybe. Yeah. You know this stuff well, too. Well, how about I get to interview you next time?

[00:24:07]>> You interview me next time. All right.

[00:24:08]Yeah, Brad and Danielle, we'll set that up. All right. All right, I think that's all we have time for, but everybody give it up for Brad Garling House.

[00:24:13]>> Thank you.