Peterborough United fans are in MELTDOWN over new badge | Our thoughts and reaction

Added: 2026-06-02

[00:00:00]Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Up the Poshcast. This week it's a rebrand special. Today is of course the 1st of June, which means that Peterborough United have gone live with their new identity and the brand that has hopefully followed on with that.

[00:00:17]This week it's a bit of a special episode because it's kind of a two-parter. The way that it fell this week is that we couldn't all get together to discuss this. So in the first half of the episode you've got myself, Lords, and an ex-marketing manager of Peterborough United who has joined us this week. And then the second half is Charlie and Harry who have actually watched the section that we recorded before recording theirs and have also recorded that after Peterborough United have put out the statement of what the rebrand looks like on today, well, 1st of June.

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[00:01:11]With all that said and done, please do sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode.

[00:01:25]>> [music] [music] >> All right, hello everyone. We are recording this. Is it Well, is it now the 30th of May? I've completely lost track. It's just gone midnight, hasn't it? But what happens and when this episode will be released, which should be 7:00 on Monday morning, is the 1st of June. And what comes with the 1st of June should hopefully be Peterborough United's rebrand. Of course, the last mention of it, last real mention, was the 31st of July, 2025.

[00:02:07]There's not been a great deal of mention of it since then. Obviously, Clive left Peterborough United. We've had Joe has joined since then.

[00:02:15]And I would imagine that it took a little bit of time for him to gather the ropes together after what was probably a turbulent handover.

[00:02:23]I've got loads with me today, and I've got Mark with me today. Mark was previously on Countdown to Kick-Off, and if anybody didn't know, Mark was responsible for the Joe Ward saga. Uh we we mentioned before we went live that that was what he was responsible for. So, if you want to get in the comments and slag him off for that, then by all means do.

[00:02:42]But, Mark is hopefully going to give us a little bit of insight into well, Posh, maybe, and and his thoughts on the rebrand, as well.

[00:02:51]And potentially, Harry and Charlie are going to record a segment, as well, so that they can share their thoughts 11 months on.

[00:03:00]And who knows what else? Maybe we'll Maybe in the next sort of 40 hours before this goes out, we will have found another guest that we can talk to. But, I don't want to start anything. So, Mark, do you want to kick us off with Let's go back to 31st of July last year, when the rebrand was announced. What was your thoughts on that initially?

[00:03:20]>> Well, look, if I can just say, you know, a former marketing manager at Peterborough United would have been a fine introduction, but we'll go with We'll go with Wardgate.

[00:03:28]Uh so, I mean, well, look, I think that there's kind of two separate conversations, as far as I'm concerned. There's kind of, you know, when the announcement was made, there was kind of the well, you know, is this Is there legitimate reason for the club to sort of do something uh to this to this degree? And then, obviously, there's the debate around whether kind of supporters agree, ultimately, with with that decision or with the outcome. So, like on first point, you know, I don't think it's unreasonable for the club to review its visual identity. Um, you know, I I don't want to sort of repeat what representatives of the club have already said, but you know, football's changed dramatically, hasn't it, in recent years?

[00:04:08]Clubs communicate through social media, mobile apps, streaming platforms, digital advertising, ways it's never done before. So, these all open up opportunities to connect with audiences way beyond your, you know, your match day crowd. So, a modern identity needs to be able to work across all of those.

[00:04:24]And of course, you know, it's vital that the club continues to identify new revenue streams. And obviously, we're very fortunate, aren't we, to have one of the best in the game leading that charge on our behalf. But still, we're relatively small club operating in an increasingly expensive environment, would be my assessment. And you know, match day income, I think, has got a ceiling. And I think if you disregard things like grassroots and schools initiatives, we've probably reached that the last few years.

[00:04:49]Um, and ultimately, I feel like promotion remains the biggest driver of growth. And I'm sure if we had the data to hand, you'd see an uplift in season ticket sales in the championship years.

[00:04:58]And I'd hazard a guess we hold on to most of those because by then you've got them hooked, right? And then you, you know, your bigger away followings, all those kinds of things. But like obviously, that's way beyond any individual's control. So, if the club can sort of achieve growth through a refreshed identity, they think that would support, you know, an increase in commercial, increase in merchandise, and open new doors for them. I think they'd have been foolish not to explore that.

[00:05:20]Now, where I think the discussion becomes muddled is that the club's consistently used the term rebrand. But so far, what we've actually seen is a new badge and a new typeface. And ultimately, kind of neither of those is brand, right? So, as a marketer by trade, you know, a brand for me is about how people feel about an organization, right? Slightly marketeer waffle, but you know, that's shaped ultimately by their experience. So, in football, that's going to be things like, you know, the match day atmosphere, um you know, results, fan engagement, those sorts of things. So, when we talk about a rebrand, I think it's a fair question to ask at this stage whether this is a visual identity refresh, or is it part of a broader repositioning of the football club? Because I think if it's a if it's a genuine rebrand, then actually the most interesting part of all of this is still to come. Um in terms of like, what does that mean for the way the club communicates, and how will that shape supporter engagement going forward? How will we experience Peterborough United differently because of it? So, I think those are the questions that sort of generally interest me at this stage of the process.

[00:06:23]>> Can I ask a question? Or is it Chris Payne has done Posh's new identity, but he also did Cambridge's?

[00:06:31]Looking at what Cambridge have done over the last season, do you think that Cambridge were a rebrand, or do you think that they were a change in visual identity? Just so that people can gauge a thought of what the next 12 months may look like for Posh.

[00:06:45]>> Sure. I mean, I obviously as as somebody who actively tries to consume as little Cambridge United media as I as I can possibly muster, it's difficult to say exactly. What I would say is I think they've really gotten behind, you know, I think if if you look at their social assets from last year and compare them to this, those have changed more significantly than just the badge. You know, they they've kind of got a design system that works around that identity. So, they're applying it kind of holistically. It's not still an amber graphic, but with a new badge in the bottom right corner.

[00:07:18]So, I think these again, these are the things that I'm excited to see sort of how we interpret that across things like our social suite and what have you, and you know, I'm cautiously optimistic that, you know, we'll we'll we'll see that that same thing. But, I suppose again, you know, the question around, well, you know, how will it feel differently?

[00:07:37]I think that is the great unanswered question, because, you You if it's just about sort of a new badge on a shirt and a bit of new signage around the stadium, that's fine. But I think with a rebrand comes the opportunity to to take a step back and just consider things like, you know, your communication with the fan base and and and in what form that takes and and what, you know, tone you should adopt and and and all of those sorts of things.

[00:08:01]>> Yeah, I think it's an interesting point you make there because it's it's not just visually what it looks like, is it?

[00:08:07]It's the whole culture.

[00:08:08]It's it's literally everything from top to bottom and I haven't really considered that the football on the pitch does have a direct link to it, not just in the sense of, obviously, if they're doing well on the pitch, the brand's going to grow naturally, but that is the main culture driver, isn't it? Like if you read what happens on social media every time we go on a losing streak or whenever there's anything to make fun of, right? People on Twitter are going mad, aren't they?

[00:08:34]Making jokes and making banter and stuff. And I do wonder at clubs like Cambridge, is that going on? Or are they is the has the culture changed? Like has that been part of it? Cuz they've had a relegation, Cambridge, and it it doesn't feel like their fan base are are feeling negative. And then they've obviously gone straight back up afterwards. And like you see like the the kit launch that they had and and little bits and pieces like that, like it does feel like I I obviously don't want to sing the praises of a rival club, but it does feel like their fan base is a lot more positive than ours, isn't it? It does make me think like whether how much their rebrand has had an effect on their fan base and the football at the same time.

[00:09:22]>> Yeah, and and I think that's that's the the the real opportunity, isn't it, with doing something of this scale? Is is a chance to take stock and it's a chance to, you know, if you're if you're not happy either with kind of the way you are currently communicating with your support or indeed the way you feel your supporters are communicating with you, you know, something as grand scale as a rebrand is a real opportunity to go back to first principles and and and agree how you're going to change that going forward. So, uh you know, I'm excited that that's a a prospect [clears throat] that's still on the table for us. But, with regards to Cambridge, again, I you know, I agree. I think I think you you can sort of see that they've embodied this and it and it has been has been more than a sort of a performative gesture, which I'm not suggesting in any way, shape, or form ours has been. I'm just saying that the point that we're talking, kind of all that we've seen right now is a is a is a logo and a font. And if you go back and revisit all of the initial comms around this, they they certainly implied that this was a you know, an overarching project and was about more than simply a new badge on the shirts, as as I recall it.

[00:10:26]>> Uh I'm I'm going to I'm going to say that I I don't think that I don't want to name names, but I do think that the people involved with with the rebrand, maybe the ones working at the club, maybe didn't fully understand what what it was that they were doing because if you go back to the research stage, and I'm not talking about what Chris Payne had done, because I think the research that he put in into the club and the city, I think was was top notch. He did the best he could with what he had.

[00:10:54]But, where you're talking about the way that the club communicates to fans and the way that fans communicate with the club, I think you can become quite tunnel vision and quite blind to how people perceive you, because you've done it for so long and you fall into that trap of how we've always done it this way, this is just how it is, that maybe you can't see it changing or you can't see the reasons why it would need to change. And I I I don't think I'm not confident that the club can see it. I don't think that they're I don't think they see this rebrand as doing that. And I I think that's evident with one, on research that they did with that first initial questionnaire that they put out, none of these questions were asked.

[00:11:35]Um and two, just the lack of communication we've had since the 31st of July last year where we've basically had nothing.

[00:11:44]We were so in the dark of what's to come in the next week. We're recording this on Friday night. By the time the episode goes out, we might have had loads of communication. We might have had none.

[00:11:53]Like we're we're so in the dark of what's actually happening.

[00:11:58]>> I mean, it's it's an interesting point and it's maybe a a an odd analogy, but the way I look at things like this is that, you know, it's kind of if you've ever been to the opticians convinced you've got 20/20 vision and then they pop that lens in front of your eyes and you go, "Jesus, like okay, >> [laughter] >> I get it now. This this is what it could look like." I think that I think there is a bit of that. I think that, you know, you it's easy to fall into a a kind of a predictable pattern of of of of behavior, of activity, of output, and what have you and and it can be scary, you know, the thought of kind of deviating from that in some in some respect. But then I think if if there's a legitimate fear of that, you say you're changing the badge. And I think the language around a rebrand maybe to smart alecks like me just just implies something a little more, um you know, ambitious and and and further reaching than that. And and like you say, we we we yet to go. I mean, you know, you talked there briefly about the consultation process and I think that's probably the bit I would share with you I've got the biggest reservations about. Like so I don't think supporters should be able to veto strategic decisions, right? Like clubs have to make tough decisions. That's just the reality of business. But and you know, the people involved in the project you you've alluded to, you know, they've got years of expertise in design and branding and production communication and they'll understand the practical challenges here that won't occur to most of us, right? But if you're going to consult supporters, then I think it has to feel meaningful.

[00:13:26]And I don't think the issue here was that fans didn't get final sign-off on the design. I think the issue is that a lot of fans just this this the sentiment I get from what I've been able to see and consume is that they came away feeling like the outcome was sort of predetermined and that the consultation process was engineered to deliver that result as opposed to like legitimately shape it.

[00:13:47]And the thing is whether that's true or not, it kind of is irrelevant because perception is what matters, right? If enough people believe that that's the case, then that becomes the narrative.

[00:13:57]And I you know, I think that sort of people can accept being told, "We've decided that change is necessary."

[00:14:04]What's trickier is being told, "We're listening." and then not feeling that your views have sort of ultimately influenced anything. And just I know I'm going on, but like another crucial point on this, I think there was like there was a big disconnect between what the club wanted to talk about and what supporters wanted to talk about. So again, if you think back to the initial comms, the club spent a lot of time and energy explaining like why the existing badge was problematic.

[00:14:31]And I think what I saw were fans far more interested in, "Okay, well what's going to replace it then?"

[00:14:37]So like it almost kind of fine. Okay, if that's what you say, great. But what's what's going to replace it? And so by the time the final design was unveiled, I don't think anybody was debating the rationale anymore. What they were debating was the outcome. And I've I've always thought that some of this could have been mitigated if supporters have been allowed to see more of like the creative process. So like personally, I'd have loved to have seen some of the earlier drafts.

[00:15:02]I'd have loved to have seen some of the alternative directions that like ultimately didn't make the cut. Um you know, different iterations of what the final badge ended up being cuz you mentioned Cambridge, Loz. I don't want to list about that. This must be a record number of mentions for them on an Up the Poch Cast episode, but if you look at what they did, I think they got it right in that they presented their fan base with three completely new badges. So, you might not have liked any of them, but you still felt as though you had a say in the one that that that ultimately ended up being appointed, right? And like conversely the other end of the spectrum, Bradford's mistake was including the existing badge within those options because we're creatures of habit and we're always going to default to what's comfortable, right? Whereas if I lay that next to how I feel our process went was lots of lots of consultation, lots of you know, no I don't think anybody can question the the volume of opportunities that were given to contribute, but ultimately as you said kind of someone disappeared into a room and the next announcement was here's the new badge.

[00:16:07]So, they kind of you know, you didn't you we didn't didn't really go on a journey of like it it's evolutionary. I think it was just kind of and and and not like and here's a couple of options like here's the finished so we sort of just skipped, didn't wait to the to the unveiling. So, I'm you know, I'm I'm sympathetic to a degree uh with you know, supporters who don't feel represented by where it landed. But I again I think that is more of a it's more of a gap in the comms than it is around the creative process cuz I would agree with you. I think from the consultation events that were delivered and I couldn't make it, but I saw the one that was uploaded to Posh Plus and if you look at the the video that I think Chris Payne produced, correct me if I'm wrong Ash, around the the unveiling of the logo, it's clear that his process was exemplary. Whether you agree with the the finished design or not, there can be absolutely no accusations that any stone was left unturned. I think he's clearly done a a really thorough and excellent job.

[00:17:03]>> Yeah, so I remember I was in one of the focus groups and they did show the signs that it wouldn't be in those and I sort of asked the question and said I think that you should include these designs in the final presentation to say it it it looked like this at one point and then this is what we've come up with.

[00:17:28]The question that I want to ask to you and you as well lads actually is that there was I don't know the number of how many focus groups there were. I don't know the number of how many fans attended these focus groups.

[00:17:40]But everything that we've been told is that all of the focus groups had positive feedback and I use that loosely because although there were of course some that maybe weren't massive fans of the badge, they understood why that badge was becoming that badge.

[00:17:59]And then all of a sudden 31st of July comes round and it's just this massive tidal wave of what the hell is this?

[00:18:07]What are we doing? How How do you think Do you Do you think that it's realistic that let's say that there's 200 fans that went through these focus groups. Do you think that it's realistic that no fan said, well it looks a bit like the Chelsea badge or it looks a bit like the Peugeot badge or it looks like a hotel company or all of those Do you think that that's real? Do you think that that's possible?

[00:18:28]>> I think that I mean you were in the focus group Ashley, I wasn't.

[00:18:34]Were Were the questions asked of the focus group to give their initial feedback in a way that you felt like your feedback would be listened to and that there was time to make those changes because the way I see it is like we've already said, they've drawn the badge, they're happy with it. We're going to show the focus groups first.

[00:18:56]And unless it's a disaster with the feedback, that's that's it. It's final.

[00:19:02]And I feel like maybe the badge was better than what people thought and I'm I'm in that camp.

[00:19:08]I I was expecting it to look a lot worse than what it came out as. So, my initial reaction was, "Oh, actually that looks quite good."

[00:19:16]Was the focus group the same and the club have taken that as positive feedback?

[00:19:21]But actually, small parts that could still be improved and there was still time to improve it, they didn't bother with because in their eyes positive feedback job done.

[00:19:31]Difficult one to answer. Well, it's not that difficult because I'm I'm confident that we were presented with the final product. There was no focus group of the the Like Mark said, where Cambridge were given the three options, that what that was not what the focus group was about.

[00:19:48]There was some sub-identities that were incomplete. There was the mascot sub-identity that we were told was going to be changed. It then wasn't.

[00:19:59]Uh there was the Triumph identity, I think it's called, which is which had the years that we'd won promotion, I think it was, and then there was mentions of, "Well, we've been more successful than the three dates that I think it was that they put in cuz I think they only put in 2014, 2024 and 2025.

[00:20:19]Then they then went back and added in the '92, the 2000, the 2011, I think it was, as well. And then obviously there was one There's one in the '60s or '70s as well, if I remember correctly.

[00:20:31]But it very much was a focus group of this is the final product. And like you say is that there was resounding negative feedback from those focus groups. So, there was no reason to go back to the drawing board.

[00:20:48]>> Just a question, Ash, on the focus groups because I remember they advertised um sessions that the one of which was uploaded to Posh Plus, right? And that absolutely didn't contain what you've just described in terms of drafts or alternative versions or what have you.

[00:21:04]My My memory was that there was a subsequent sort of behind closed doors unveiling of that.

[00:21:12]But I think what I what I just wanted to pick with you was whether that was that was certainly not like open access as I recall it. That might have been with supporters groups to groups close closer to the club. I don't remember that one being a a drop-in. So, it's probably fair to say that there there are people who may have contributed to the conversation but didn't have sort of access necessarily to seeing that visual that that that that that you did. Or maybe that's just me and I'm misremembering.

[00:21:41]>> So, the first event was the fan forum, which was in [snorts] the executive lounge, I think it is.

[00:21:48]That was then what was broadcast onto Posh Plus and then it was probably 4 months later, I would imagine, that there was invites to this the focus groups. And they were groups of let's say 10 in the boardroom.

[00:22:03]And then people were presented with the final product. But I'm pretty sure that they that was open invite. I think that it was just open invite on a bank holiday Monday and then a Tuesday as well. So, >> That might explain why I didn't know about the focus group.

[00:22:18]>> there's there's questions to be asked about the availability of but equally and this is this is the point that I've always made is that if you were really that bothered about what was to come, I think that these people should have made the time. I don't want to be controversial and say, "Well, if you I I always said that if you if you're not there, then you lose the right to it it's no different We I've always said I want you We always discussed this. If you don't turn up to the polling station on a vote day, you don't have the right to complain.

[00:22:50]So, if you've not turned up to a focus group or a fan forum and of course, people have mind on the 31st of July, but it's too late for that.

[00:22:57]It's too late for that now. So, I think that that the stages were there and the invites were available. I can't remember exactly how it went. And of course there was the two surveys that went out that people could have got involved in, but yeah, it's a it's a difficult one.

[00:23:15]>> I mean I I definitely remember the surveys though not entertaining at any point the question of, you know, whether you would want to stick.

[00:23:23]So so the surveys were definitely with written with change in mind. I don't I I think I remember seeing the first one come out and there was very there was a very clear absence of, you know, or or would would you want things so you you kind of just did not have the option to say my preference would be we didn't change.

[00:23:41]>> And that was something that I raised right at the start was is that it didn't fit like it did it wasn't done decision and you mentioned it Mark it it was a done decision that the change was being made because Clive, Alex, and Dawn basically had to present the case and Chris Payne of course had to present the case to Dara and we know that Dara trusts the opinions of those people that he puts in those important positions of power at the club, Alex and Dawn and I think that as long as they were on board with it, which of course they probably works it was probably their suggestion to present it to Dara and say, we feel like this is an appropriate change to make.

[00:24:21]I I I still believe that it was a done deal.

[00:24:25]I think that it was just that they wanted to gather as much information to share that with Chris so that Chris could make the right design subject to opinion of course.

[00:24:36]>> And and what I would just absolutely echo is if you are in any walk of life and have an idea presented to you by Dawn and Alex that you should, you know, you should sort of say yes rather immediately because both uh you know, both very good and very capable people. But I guess what we're talking about and you just again just to go back a moment ago. You talked about those focus groups sort of slightly nearer to the unveiling. If there was two of those or even four of those frankly with a with a capacity of 10 people, you are sort of still ultimately saying that a club that that gets an average crowd of 7 and a half 8,000, ultimately 40 people got to see it.

[00:25:16]So, I I just think it's fair. I think any any fan that feels that they would like to have seen more of the kind of process play out, I think it's probably a fair observation.

[00:25:31]>> Should we now move on to both of your thoughts? Lodge, you've you've briefly touched on it, but you've somehow managed to avoid the majority of the conversations whenever we've discussed the rebrand. We of course did snippets, didn't we, on the day it was released.

[00:25:48]Lodge, do you want to give us your your thoughts now on the rebrand in detail and the sub-identities as well because I do think that they're important to discuss.

[00:25:59]>> Well, I've never been a fan of the the current badge. Uh I know that there's a lot of people out there that are very uh emotionally attached to it because we've had a lot of success in in this era of since this new badge come in 2008, we've had multiple promotions, virtual trophy wins.

[00:26:15]Uh and there's a lot of younger fans that don't remember a time before this badge.

[00:26:20]So, I completely understand why they're emotionally attached to it. I've never been a fan because I don't think it's very visually appealing. I think at the time circle logos were in. I think it was quite lazy of us to just join in on that without even thinking about what we were doing.

[00:26:35]The colors involved, different shades of blue, we've not had any kits or any sort of branding that has that shade of blue since or before that.

[00:26:46]Um and all the other annotations that were on that initial slide that was released with the white space and the different fonts and um not being able to see it from a distance. All of these things were things that I was already aware of before this rebrand came in. So, when I heard that we were having a rebrand, I was quite happy.

[00:27:06]I've already said earlier on, I wasn't confident we were going to come up with anything good.

[00:27:11]And I'm not I I there was absolutely not a chance in hell I was confident that we were going to have the majority of fans backing the the rebrand or the new logo because it's such a can of worms, isn't it, about what you include in a badge. And I get that that's what the questionnaire was. Are you attached to 1934? Are you attached to top hats? Are you attached to upon this rock? Are you attached to the wings lions? Like there's so many different elements of our brand that people think is the main element. And I think that's the the the reason why we're struggling so much to come up with one thing is because we've never had one set element.

[00:27:51]And I think that's what Chris Payne's basically tried to say is now is the time that we have that element. It's the winged lions and it's the cross keys. Everything else has become a sub-identity.

[00:28:02]And I think from that point of view, the logo is good.

[00:28:07]Um and and I think that's why my initial reaction was quite positive because I sort of understood what he was trying to do.

[00:28:14]Whether the execution could have been better, I think the main talking point is having the word Posh or some people are suggesting PUFC along with the with the logo, which 100% needs to happen because if you look at any recognizable logo, McDonald's, Nike, all of the the you know, the top billionaire industries, if you go on their logo history, at some point that logo had the brand name with it.

[00:28:40]And because over time, people have recognized just the yellow arches or just the swoosh, they don't need the name of it anymore.

[00:28:47]And Posh will get to that point eventually, but we're not there yet. So, where we're releasing just this winged lion and some some keys, obviously, everyone's reaction is going to be what the hell is that because no one associates that with any badge that we've had.

[00:29:01]But, we will in time, and that's the whole point. That's what Chris Payne has tried to explain, but I don't think the club have done anything in the last year to help people's understanding of that. And the fact that we're recording on the 30th of May, and I I I still don't know if we're releasing the badge with Posh written underneath, PUFC underneath, or with nothing underneath. I get that the kit's not going to have it, but the fact I still don't know it is a bit concerning.

[00:29:27]Um but overall, rebrand I get why it needed to happen.

[00:29:32]Execution, I think has been poor. Uh but the actual logo itself is better than what I was expecting.

[00:29:40]Probably could have been better, I think is probably the best way to summarize that.

[00:29:43]>> Yeah, I mean, so with I mean, guess with my professional hat on, I completely understand the rationale. We've talked about that.

[00:29:50]Um and loads [music] funny, you you you brought up the the the slide because I think that's that's going to be an iconic moment in Posh history, isn't it?

[00:29:58]That that slide, can we improve this?

[00:30:00]Was that the Was that the the phrase?

[00:30:03]And And the answer to that was yes. In all of those cases listed, the answer was yes. And what we have arrived at fundamentally addresses all of those things. And so, I think in that respect, you know, it's it's been uh you know, it's been a successful endeavor. The problem with design is it's it's subjective, right? And very rarely is is a design bad. It's it's a case of I like it and you don't. More often than not, it's it's not as straightforward um as that. And you know, but I I I think again, one of the challenges probably is sitting in the room and presenting that slide to a group of sort of supporters who respectfully are not, you know, necessarily marketers by trade. So, don't aren't necessarily au fait with all of these things and are probably more concerned with current table position or goal difference or what have you. I just I think it's you know, it's always going to be a a tough gig and you know, regarding the final design itself though, I think it's entirely personal preference. I'd have liked to have seen a bit more curvature. I'd have liked the lion to to just feel a little more dynamic. I'm not a massive fan of the straight lines, but again, it's it's entirely personal taste and I do think that, you know, if you're if you're measuring it against the objectives set out, then it's tick tick tick all of the way. I'm on the fence with regards to the Posh PUFC thing because again, if I feel if you go back to sort of what the purpose of this was, this was to create create a an identity that was unmistakably PUFC. Of course, it's it's it's naive to think that from day one that will be the case. And see you're right, maybe there's a transitional period whereby it needs to be accompanied.

[00:31:49]But then there's also a school of thought that says, well, if you need to slap Posh or PUFC under it, has it has it achieved that aim of being kind of instantly recognizable? And I suppose my only other slight and again, this is again not a complaint about the design work, but my only slight gripe is that I remember a line from the first bit of comms distinctively that was kind of like, "Our current badge tells the story of the city of Peterborough in terms of being the coat of arms. It doesn't tell our story."

[00:32:19]And yet kind of the element that we've landed on, which and no doubt has come out of the fan consultation and it therefore is the right element to have landed on, but ultimately is predominantly the winged lion, which is taken directly from the coat of arms and no other iteration of of PUFC badge is over history. So, you know, I I'll always I'll always ponder what could have been, but as a as a creative exercise, again, I think Chris Chris Payne has has has smashed it out of the park. He's taken a really complex brief, and he's delivered everything that the club's asked him for. And so, whether you or I or anybody else likes the result of that or not, it has only been a very successful exercise.

[00:32:58]>> So, my next question, and it sort of follows on, Mark, from what you've said there, is obviously, there's been certain accounts on Twitter, I think back to is it the 92 Bible that started doing uh this is the League One next year, and they, of course, used the new crest, but without Posh underneath it initially, and that caused massive who the [ __ ] is that isms in the comments.

[00:33:28]Do you think that's helped Posh in this scenario to be closer to not needing PFC or Posh underneath because what's the phrase? All I don't If it wasn't so late, I'd be able to find it. All All publicity's good publicity type thing. That's what I'm looking for, isn't it? Is that there's been such an uproar over uh what the hell is this badge from the other 91 teams in the uh Premier League and the Football League?

[00:33:59]Do you think that's helped Posh's case?

[00:34:03]>> I don't think I'd be losing a lot of sleep over it uh if I was still at the club, to be honest with you, because ultimately, the people who are asking that question are not and are never going to be Peterborough United supporters, right? They're supporters of other clubs who've spotted an odd badge, and you know, and and have asked a fair question because they won't necessarily have been close to or privy to any of the comms that we have as as supporters of the football club. So, I don't think I'd be losing a huge amount of sleep over that. But, I think what it does is it it it us some clues, doesn't it, about where and where it is where it is and where it isn't necessary to weave in that posh or that PUFC. And maybe the line in the sand is that merchandise doesn't need to carry that because if you or I are buying a Peterborough United shirt, we know we're buying a Peterborough United shirt. That's why we're buying it, and so it doesn't need to include that. But perhaps in things like external comms or mainstream media or what have you, it may need to carry that for 12 to 18 months just so that kind of, you know, a casual viewer doesn't turn into a game and doesn't recognize the crest, thinks they've chosen the one wrong one, and is, you know, and is stuck looking for a correct stream or anything silly like that, which sounds like a ridiculous example, but I you know, it's not it's not implausible, is it, if you don't don't if you don't recognize it. And these are the little ways in which that instant recognition is so important that that maybe we overlook.

[00:35:23]>> So, my only final thing, of course we've mentioned it a few times, and I don't want this to be a dig at anyone because I think it's a collective thought, is, of course, over the last year we've seen Posh type introduced around the stadium. We've seen the Brickies font used on pretty much every single graphic, I would say.

[00:35:47]Now, I think in terms of rebranding or visual identity changing, Mark, which I I must say I I did like that. I think that's the first time that you've used that in discussion.

[00:35:58]I think that by introducing those early, they have failed the football club has failed in having a strong impact on what we're assuming is going to be the 1st of June, right? And we we sit here 2 days before the 1st of June, find there's not been any comms, and this could be incredibly outdated by the time that we record this, which is why I'm hoping that Charlie and Harry are going to record another segment, which maybe they'll be able to say well that we can send them this they can listen to this and they can go okay well these are the things that they've picked up on this is now what's going to done but first thing the posh.com is it going to be an updated website are we going to go and change the badges of course we are on all of our social media handles how quickly are they going to get all of the changes done at the football ground to see them when's the first kit going to be released and I I appreciate that there will there's always going to be some secrecy about some of those things but I think that by breaking the timeline of the 1st of June by using elements in advance like you go into the club shop and you can buy shot glasses with the PUFC 1934 on or you're buying other bits of merchandise that have got upon this rock corner or what's the other one that I'm trying to think of proud to be posh by using some of those sub identities it it kind of feels like we've lost the bang this is this is now our new identity do you think do you think that that's a mistake >> I I I think you make a fair point and I and I think had I you know had I had the the the fortune of being able to lead a project like this because and I'm very envious of everybody who's gotten to be involved it's kind of a kind of a dream gig but I I agree with you that I think the you know one of the real payoffs of something like this is that switchover is that kind of moment where everything feels different and I sort of agree with you that by the first time I see the the the the kind of badge anywhere I've seen it haven't I like I you know I like the the font is everywhere the font is on all of the kind of flyers that I currently produce for things like foundation events and what have you so I think it goes back to what I said at the top of the call. I'm I'm really excited, interested, fascinated by what's to come because there's a small part of me that feels like I've seen everything already.

[00:38:30]Um and so I'm I'm on the fence as to whether it's a mistake or not. I think time will tell. But, if you're asking me how I would have have approached it, I think I would have been inclined to have held everything back for that moment of impact where, you know, everything felt significantly different as opposed to the sort of drip feed that's been where, you know, what You like analogies, didn't you? What's the thing where if you put a frog in hot water, it jumps out, but if you put it in cold water and you heat the water slowly, it doesn't realize.

[00:39:04]I worry it'll be a bit like that. It'll be a bit kind of Yeah, well, great.

[00:39:08]You know? And And that does feel like an opportunity missed.

[00:39:12]>> I've got another analogy. You know when um when someone gets married and everyone goes, "Oh, so how's married life?" And the answer's always the same. Oh, it's just the same as what it was before I got married. I'm wearing a ring now.

[00:39:25]I I I think it's going to be exactly like that. I think everyone's going to wake up all excited thinking, "Oh, things are going to be different now.

[00:39:31]Everything's going to be this new brand and it's going to be the new logo and new website and new merchandise and we're going to announce big signings and it's going to be the best kit ever." And I just don't think anything's going to change. I think we're going to That's going to last about 2 hours, the honeymoon period, and then I think we're going to realize, "Oh, actually, this squad's exactly the same. We haven't announced a signing yet. The shirt's just a bog-standard shirt with the new logo on. The website's exactly the same." And you go around the stadium and it looks exactly the same.

[00:40:02]I I think you're right. I think if you're going to do it, I think you need to just from top to bottom. And it's not I'm not knocking the people at the club.

[00:40:12]I think that's too big of a job for the amount of people that we we at the club.

[00:40:15]I think you would probably need external help from that and and a snagging list essentially of what you need to do everything, properly plan it. They've had a year to do this, properly plan exactly when and then you've got your launch date and every single part of that snagging list needs to have a tick next to it for the launch date. And they might well have been doing that in the background, but I said to Ashley yesterday, I can't imagine that they've changed all of the merchandise in that club shop or the megastore as they're calling it now, over the course of one weekend for everything to be brand new. I mean, we we launched that I forgot the brand name, but the the caps that we released in April. And I said at the time like we're making a big song and dance over this new brand that's coming into the club shop, but that's 2 months before the rebrand. Why do it now? Do it Do it after we've rebranded. Do it as part of that. Like if it's such a big deal that we've got this big brand name coming in, do it as a part of the rebrand. And I I think it's the same for sponsors and just every change that we've made in the last year, I just question whether we could have just saved it all and had a a bigger impact on the 1st of June when we launched the the official rebrand. Cuz I think you're right. I think we're going to fall into the trap of here's the new logo, that's the rebrand done, which isn't the case, is it? It's It's It's a rebrand. It's It should be everything.

[00:41:40]>> Yeah, I mean, if there's one thing on my wish list, it's that we will have we will have gotten Chris Payne either back on board or that there was always an agreement that he would kind of, you know, set us up with some artwork or some templates or something like that because I think if there's anyone who understands the piece of work he's done inside out, it's obviously him, right? So, I think who who would you go to to try and really bring that to life across a whole variety of formats? I think he'd be your man, wouldn't he? So, I think on my wish list is that we've we you know, we've done that and we've got Chris back on board as opposed to sort of I don't know for replacing signage just sort of given the the new logo to a a print supplier and said, you know, we want this in blue with that on and um you know, I I hope that's not what we've done. I hope I hope we've we've we've got Chris back on board um to make sure that this has the impact it needs to have when we switch it off to to kind of justify all the you know, the the emotional roller coaster everybody's been on.

[00:42:36]Uh much less club employees who've had to sort of deal with it >> Yeah, I I'll be there. Lots, you got anything else you want to add?

[00:42:48]>> No, not really. I I am excited. I know it's it's been quite a negative uh negative feedback session from me. I've I haven't like you said, I haven't really given my opinion on the rebrand at all throughout this whole year.

[00:43:00]Um but sit sitting there stewing on it and um not having the chance to express it, I guess all the negative thoughts have come out because I think we're often accused of being too pro club when it comes to the rebrand, but we don't necessarily agree that everything has been uh as good as as what people are making out.

[00:43:23]Um but I am excited overall. I want it to I want it to land. I want it to be good.

[00:43:30]And I want the fan base to enjoy it as well because at the moment I think the majority of the fan base when they think rebrand, I think they just immediately think negative thoughts.

[00:43:41]Uh and the club have got the power to change that now and fingers crossed that they do it.

[00:43:50]>> Yeah, I'm with you, Lot. I don't need to share my thoughts on what I think of the new badge because I've got it on my leg and I wouldn't have done that if I didn't like it, would I?

[00:43:58]Um so yeah, look, I mean, at least we've got to 42 and a half minutes without potentially Harry and Charlie doing something or potentially having any other bits that we can add on. So, if all else fails, at least we've got a 42-minute episode to put out on Monday morning at 7:00 a.m. Let's hope that by the time that 7:00 a.m. comes around and this goes live and people are listening to this on their Monday morning dog walk or they're watching it after they've dropped the kids off at school that all of the things that we've said that maybe could have been better have been fixed and everything that we've said is completely out of date and Monday morning goes swimmingly.

[00:44:38]And we look forward to hopefully what will be a new era of Peterborough United.

[00:44:43]With all that said and done, up the Poshcast.

[00:44:46]>> Up the Poshcast.

[00:44:48]>> The Poshcast.

[00:44:49]>> All right, good news, Ashley, Lords, and Mark. Harry and Charlie have I say I just recorded a little something something. We're recording at 2:00 p.m.

[00:44:57]on the Sunday, 31st of May. So, we're here after the club tweeted out at whatever it was, 8:27 p.m.

[00:45:07]their tweet, which I'm just going to read out and plus the the press release confirming the rebrand at 10:00 a.m. on Monday. And that said, Monday, full stop. 10:00 a.m. Full stop.

[00:45:21]New paragraph. Now, I'll stop pissing around now. Our new identity goes live across every social and digital channel, shaped by thousands of supportive voices. Now, it's yours for good. We can get on to that later in a bit.

[00:45:35]Full story here. And then I opened the full story.

[00:45:38]Our new identity goes live on Monday, 1st of June. Our new identity goes live on Monday, 1st of June, 2026.

[00:45:44]From 10:00 a.m. Our new crest will take its place across all our social digital channels. I've changed my mind about reading this whole thing out. Three paragraphs. Um maybe we move on to the second one.

[00:45:53]Our identity will appear in two forms.

[00:45:55]The primary identity is our crest with Posh sitting underneath and will be the main everyday face of the club across the majority of touch points. The secondary identity is the crest on its own used in supporting context where the word mark isn't needed or where space is tight.

[00:46:13]First unveiled to supporters in July 2025, the new identity has been shaped by thousands of supporters' voices.

[00:46:19]Monday marks the moment it goes live for good.

[00:46:23]And actually, there was one key part of the first paragraph which was our new-look website will follow with a full unveiling later in the year.

[00:46:32]And I'm just going to hand over to you, Charlie. Just give me some general thoughts and I'll give mine.

[00:46:37]>> Well, I'm sure I assume we'll do some thoughts on sort of the rebrand as a whole, but just based on what we we found out last night and what you read out in that statement. Um firstly, I'm glad that we're getting a bit of comms about it now because it feels like it has been very much just buried um under last season and I I I think I would have liked throughout the season to get little updates on the rebrand. Um I don't know whether I would have just wanted them to completely put it on pause. Um I'm a bit It's a bit of a shame to me that we're not going to be able to launch everything at once, you know, the new look website, all of that in one go and then on one day we are rebranded. Um I don't know why that's take that why we've not been able to get that ready in the year that we've had since last since the the launch of the new crest, but that's a shame to me because I would have liked to see sort of a a big launch. Um but overall, for me, I think seeing it on the kits is going to be the big thing. Uh I think whatever we see on Monday, whatever they put out, whether that be, you know, look what it looks like on the side of the stadium or what it looks like on the social media graphics, whatever they use to sort of launch the rebrand, none of that for me is going to give me a real sense of this crest. Seeing it on a physical kit being worn by a player or a fan is I think what's going to sort of make my final decision as to whether I do like or not like this crest because right now in its purely digital form I can't say that I love it. So, I think the next few days are going to make things clear for everyone which is good and I think I just hope the club give us a lot of content because one of the great things about when they first launched the rebrand was and we we praised on the podcast the social media of that day the stuff that the club were putting out. Literally every half an hour every hour a different interview a different part of the rebrand stuff like Dell for example getting his tattoo of the brand of the badge and giving his thoughts. That was such a good day of social media coverage. The media team actually smashed it that day and I just hope we get that same level of sort of excitement and buzz on Monday when the the launch officially happens.

[00:48:49]>> I hope so too on that front for sure. Um I think there's bound to be a series of tweets at the very least.

[00:49:01]Uh let's hope that it goes further than that that the the tweets aren't just essentially digital images of things or mock-ups. Hopefully they put up the new crest in the club shop. Hopefully they put up the new crest around certain points around the ground. Will we get the kit unveiled on Monday tomorrow 1st of June? That would be great if so. I I think that would be quite early if I'm not mistaken based on historical uh uh precedent with where the kit normally comes out.

[00:49:31]Couple of things that I want to raise that are worth cuz you got you got that time to reflect from what we originally said. Um I've had one fan in particular in my ear this morning saying that my the article on the Posh Cast website sounded way more positive than I now sound.

[00:49:49]But I'll I'll just say a couple of things.

[00:49:52]One is that we have to recognize that two of the key driving forces behind the rebrand, which were Chris Payne and Clive Edwards, are not involved at this stage. And so, the new marketing manager, Joe Fletcher, has inherited this project. And that will always be harder than if you are the one who initiates it. So, some of the flak that the club is getting, some of which has come from me, and I'll raise it a point that I have in a moment, it should be couched in a little bit of sympathy for Joe that this wasn't something that he, you know, pulled the lever on, right?

[00:50:33]My one of my criticisms, which I did tweet about, was the fact that, okay, we're we're also doing a website relaunch. That's good. To Mark's point from the earlier part of this video, if we want it to be a true rebrand, it needs to go beyond the visual identity change. A new website could be part of fulfilling that promise of a genuine new rebrand.

[00:50:59]Given that we've known what the crest is since July 2025, is it the case that a website revamp is a project that takes 13, 14 months, and could not have been ready for the 1st of June? Or is it the case that actually we haven't initiated that project quickly enough, given that we've known the crest since July 2025?

[00:51:25]There's, or at least the project was begun in July 2025. I actually now forget the exact date that it got, um, released to us.

[00:51:33]And then, further to Mark's other point that he raised earlier in this episode, I'm then trying to think, okay, what else could they have considered as part of a full rebrand? And here's two things that came to mind immediately.

[00:51:44]The way in which the club communicates information to the fans. I think he's quite uh individualistic at Posh. So, you've got a Posh Tickets account, but then you also have Chris Brewer using his personal account to reply to lots of different items regarding tickets. Of course, Chris himself is moving on. You have key information sometimes uh disseminated by Phil Adlam from his account directly.

[00:52:13]Appreciating the fact that many questions do come to him directly.

[00:52:16]And then you have last night Joe Fletcher replying to me from his personal account. One of my questions is, have we considered as part of a full rebrand whether that is optimal? Have we considered whether we should be having a suite of Peterborough United affiliated accounts to do all comms going forward?

[00:52:34]We may have decided that we don't want to do that. Having the personal touch is a good thing, but that hasn't been communicated that that was actually considered. And I doubt that it was. And you probably would expect something like that as part of a full rebrand that Mark talked about earlier in this video. And then another thing was the bring the branding into the into the the physical world, not just digital assets.

[00:52:58]Have they considered how the branding and we're going beyond just the crest?

[00:53:03]What can we do to improve the fan experience walking to the ground?

[00:53:07]The fan zone. The away mini fan zone next to the J's display slash um the edge of the uh main stand.

[00:53:17]Have they considered any of this? Have they considered the walk round the back where you have to if you're going up past um the Meerkat Family Stand and you're going in that way?

[00:53:27]I don't think they have. And you probably would have expected in a full rebrand these things to have been considered. I could be wrong. It could be that tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. we're going to see a whole new suite of things. And I really hope I am wrong on that front and I'm I'm away by it.

[00:53:42]I haven't actually mentioned what I think of the badge. I'm going to pause actually. Have you got any other comments before I go into the badge, the the new crest specifically, Charlie?

[00:53:49]>> Um yeah, just about the launch. Um and you mentioned the article that we wrote about the um the the badge when it first came out.

[00:53:57]And if anyone wants to go back and see what our initial thoughts were, there's a website there's an article on our website called a new identity. Um and we all wrote like a couple of paragraphs about what we thought. And I said that I liked the badge originally, but my last point was I'm excited to see how the new identity is phased in across the coming year. And I said that last July. And it feels like there's been no phasing in. I was expecting a phasing in process, and we are just going to go from everything up until this day is old badge, and then June the 1st happens, and then we're into the new badge. And we've been auctioning off, you know, all the stuff around the the stadium, the car park signs, and all of that. Um we haven't got a website ready, so there will be a I guess a bit of spillover there. But we're going to go from, yeah, old badge to new badge instantly. And that does feel like a missed opportunity to me. There could have been little things that we included it in.

[00:54:57]Um hopefully, maybe we are just waiting to announce stuff like preseason friendlies, and new signings. We're waiting for all of that to happen after the new badge launches. So that does feel like what you said, Harry, like a complete rebrand reset for the club. And next season is this new and exciting thing. And if that's the case, I'll probably be swept up in that, and I'll probably enjoy it. But in terms of the way that it's been launched, yeah, I feel like I would have liked to have seen some more announcements regarding other things to do with the club, and a a wider rebrand of the sort of modus operandi of the club, as well as just the the new crest, and and very little else. But yeah, let's talk about the the actual design of the badge now and how it's grown or I think shrunk on us over the last year.

[00:55:45]>> It's definitely shrunk on me, not that I was ever particularly fond of it. My exact words were that they have sacrificed beauty for a Actually, no, I forget my own exact words, but basically they've sacrificed beauty for mass reproducibility. I think those were my words. Because it is extremely digital-friendly. It's going to fit nicely on an app button on your phone.

[00:56:11]It's going to be when you're looking at your phone, you're scrolling through fixtures on BBC Sport, what fixtures are coming up, it will be quite clear what each element of the badge is. I'm sure just having passion underneath or not will, over time, become recognizable at least.

[00:56:27]But it's not It It's not beautiful. And I care about our crest being beautiful.

[00:56:34]Maybe some people don't. Maybe some people care about being sleek, polished, the sort of thing that would get you a first at university in a in a marketing degree. I care about my club's crest having elements of the story of the city that we come from. I think it's another point Mark raised that it's kind of It's not necessarily Mark's point himself. It's just that he considered whether the crest should tell the story of the city or the club.

[00:57:00]Frankly, in my opinion, the things are so connected to one another that to leave out the story of the city in any way will completely undermine the quality of the crest.

[00:57:10]And for that reason, I think we needed at a minimum the crossed keys.

[00:57:14]They have got a cross in the key teeth, but the there are no longer crossed keys, which is what I think a lot of people see as being the thing that would have made us unique. Uh Visually, no other club is has prominent crossed keys. And that is the thing that could have defined us, like, we're going all the way to the extremes, the cannon of Arsenal, the liver bird of Liverpool. The thing that a a dragon is never going to define us because from everything from Chelsea to Persia has done it before and in a very similar way to this new crest. Um So, we've neither hit the brief of it being really that unique to us, nor have we hit the brief of it if the brief was there of it being actually quite beautiful cuz you could do a more detailed dragon that is more beautiful.

[00:58:08]Uh so, for that reason, I'm I'm pretty tepid on it. I I don't like it. Uh I think I'm going to struggle to ever really like it.

[00:58:18]I still recognize that Chris did listen to fan feedback. The wing line is there.

[00:58:23]A cross key of kind is there. But, uh I do think it's fallen into the trap, the modern trap, of minimalism over detail and it's in the details where the thing that makes it special is found and for that reason, yeah, I don't I don't find this badge special, unfortunately.

[00:58:45]>> Yeah, see, I liked it when it first came out mainly because I thought they achieved all of the briefs that it set out to achieve. And fundamentally, it has. As you said, Harry, it's very good for digital marketing. It's more simplistic. It gives us sort of one rather than a load of different sort of identities. It is that one identity and it's that focus on the winged lion. I would question whether people outside of Peterborough even know that there is an association between Peterborough and a winged lion.

[00:59:16]And one of the main reasons that we they said about doing the rebrand was gaining wider recognition for the club and the brand. Well, I don't think I and I think you've seen by the social media response from people that anybody really knows why we are a wing lion or would associate a link a wing lion with >> Peterborough. Whereas whereas there is clear biblical and and then in physical reality cathedral connection to Saint Peter which names Peterborough upon this rock the the keys to the kingdom of heaven. These are all biblically related. They all connect to the name of the city that we're from. Um So why weren't they the key element of of the new crest as opposed to the wing lion?

[01:00:07]As I say I I am actually sympathetic to what the survey results were where it had one and two it had the wing lion and the cross keys and both of them are there. Don't get me wrong.

[01:00:19]It might have been very difficult for us to do a version of this without the wing lion on it give and and say that we've listened to the fans. I am but I think I think there was a route there for the keys to be more prominent.

[01:00:31]>> Yeah.

[01:00:32]And the thing that one of the things that irks me the more I look at it is the fact that we've lost both upon this rock and 1934. That upsets me. I would have liked I mean I don't I actually don't know a huge amount about upon this rock but I feel like every posh fan knows that as a motto but not at least having the year that the club was founded.

[01:00:51]>> Upon this upon this rock I built my church. It's it's a line from the Bible.

[01:00:55]So when Jesus is speaking to Saint Peter.

[01:00:57]>> Ah well.

[01:00:58]There we go. But I've always associated that that saying with Posh and not seeing that I think that will sort of fall to the wayside now.

[01:01:07]Yeah I just don't think it's that visually appealing of a badge to be honest. Like the more I look at it the more bored I am by it. There's not many things to look at. There's little inconsistencies across it. Like for example things don't line up. So, the bottom foot of the the winged lion and the bottom of the key are annoyingly slightly out of kilter. That's could just That was pointed out to me by someone, and that has annoyed me ever since.

[01:01:34]Every time I look at it, that's the first thing I look at now.

[01:01:37]Um which is very frustrating. And I I just don't think I do worry for them.

[01:01:43]>> On that, am I right in thinking as well that if you get the millimeter ruler out, the distance of the end of the P and the end of the H on Posh, the amount of the overhang happens on the wing of the lion and the edge of the key are different amounts of overhang over the P and the H separately on each side of the badge. That's right, isn't it?

[01:02:01]>> Yeah, absolutely.

[01:02:03]>> very big, but there is a tiny difference in the amount of overhang over each.

[01:02:07]>> Which is why when they put So, the graphic they put on the tweet yesterday was a like the badge in like a blue square, and you can't center the badge properly because if you center the lion, then H is closer to the edge or P is closer to the edge than H or something.

[01:02:24]One One of them is closer to the edge than the other. And then if you center the the word Posh, the lion is then not centered. So, there's not sort of one clear center line through the badge, which is another thing that's annoying.

[01:02:35]And I know this might sound very pedantic, pretty much everything we're saying, but it's things that, you know, at the end of the day in a rebrand, you look at, don't you? You look at the fine margins. You look at how can we improve this? And just like That's all of not having that center line frustrating. I I am concerned for the for the club. You look at the post that went out at 8:27 p.m. last night.

[01:02:58]102 likes, 114 comments. And the comments are not um positive for the vast majority.

[01:03:08]>> I've got something else for you. It's at time of recording, it's 96,000 views. And tell me how many likes it was. 100 >> 102.

[01:03:17]>> So, 102 likes to 96,000 views.

[01:03:21]The lightning picture from the other day, that extremely good Joe Den uh lightning picture is on less than half the views, something like 44,000 views, but 800 likes. So, the ratio of views to likes is, you know, someone could do the math on that. It's like tenfold plus.

[01:03:41]Uh so, it's shows the level, I think, of uh even the people who aren't commenting, there's a level of antipathy to all this, unfortunately.

[01:03:50]>> Yeah, and I think, well, I hope that the club hasn't bought likes on Instagram, but we've either bought likes or been like-botted because we have 1,000 likes on Instagram, but there's not 1,000 accounts that have liked it. I'll tell you that all right now. Um we have never we never get anything more than like 200 likes on Instagram, um Posh. So, yeah, I hope that we've not decided to to buy likes. That would be a very desperate attempt. Um but yeah, I think the general feedback is not great. Um I stand by the whole wait till we see it on the kits thing because, without mentioning Cambridge yet again in this episode, um my uncle is a Cambridge fan, and he said that he was against their rebrand until he saw it on the kit, and then he actually really liked it. And that was the same for a lot of Cambridge fans.

[01:04:37]So, maybe seeing it on a kit will change my mind, and I'm still open-minded to it, but I think the lack of sort of hype around it over the year has meant that the only thing I've been able to look at since July last year was those initial images of the badge, and I've looked at them so many times now that I've started to look at this point out the small flaws and see the small flaws, and just see that it fundamentally is not that interesting of a design.

[01:05:03]And yeah, that's why I'm not a huge fan.

[01:05:05]I hope I'm proven wrong and that they smash the rebrand, and the kits are lovely, and it looks amazing on the kits, and they win people over. But, I it's definitely shrunk on me over the last year, Harry.

[01:05:17]>> Yeah.

[01:05:18]All right, last point, let's just wrap up. Some people online have mentioned that the new FA rules require you to do detailed fan consultation and get the majority of supporters approval, but majority is kind of ill-defined. Could it be your season ticket holders? Could it be fan supporters groups?

[01:05:33]Uh to put it on record, I think that even though it was or felt like a little bit of a foregone conclusion, we cannot accuse the club of not doing a significant amount of fan consultation along the way to getting there. An in-person fan forum, two different surveys, we had the marketing manager at the time, Clive Edwards, come on up the Poshcast and defend it. And he had me grilling him and he and he sat here for half an hour plus and spoke to us. And even though I wasn't completely sold on all the answers, it's intense levels of fan consultation going on a a podcast. Many clubs would not have done that.

[01:06:14]Uh and of course, they published a series of of the survey results. I'm trying to think there's something else that I've missed. The the fan forums at the end. Um and now I know they fell on bank holidays, but there was a lot.

[01:06:27]Have a majority of fans uh given their approval?

[01:06:32]Does the format of that approval have to be old badge versus new badge?

[01:06:36]One or the other? Like almost like a referendum?

[01:06:39]Uh I don't know, but I I would be I don't know.

[01:06:46]If unless the effort it someone would need to go to the FA, make a complaint, the FA would need to make an investigation.

[01:06:52]Uh I think while I don't know what the outcome of that would be or if the club has perfectly complied, I can't help but think it would be unprecedented if the FA overturned this here.

[01:07:02]>> Yeah.

[01:07:02]>> I think that would be That's probably fair to say.

[01:07:07]>> Yeah, and you think about even within our podcast, Ash likes the new badge.

[01:07:12]Lords, I don't think loves the new badge, but also really didn't like the existing badge. So, yeah, even within the the referendum, there's no guarantee that even within the podcast hosts, that the old badge would win that. So, yeah, I think we cannot accuse the club of not doing fan consultation. Maybe frustrating because it did feel like the consultation was always "This is happening. What do you want the new era to look like?" But consultation is consultation at the end of the day.

[01:07:41]And I think the club are within their rights to look at this at this point and to have done what they're doing because the old badge was not fit for purpose. And I think, let's say we were transitioning from a different badge, and then the badge that they announced was the Chris Brewer badge, we would have just as many issues with it as we do with with the new crest right now, if not probably more. So, the old badge is nothing special. I think people are just disappointed that they just don't feel that strong connection with the new badge quite yet.

[01:08:13]But maybe that'll come. Maybe that'll come.

[01:08:16]>> Maybe. All right. That was good. Thank you all for listening. I guess this episode you get two rounds of all the hosts saying up the posh cast cuz Ashley, Lords, and Mark already did it.

[01:08:27]So, from us, up the posh cast.

[01:08:30]>> [music] >> Up the posh cast.

[01:08:45]>> You You got to end the recording.

[01:08:46]>> Oh, [ __ ] Yeah, I have to do it. I'm not used to that.

[01:08:49]>> [laughter]