High-ticket coaching programs should focus on transformational outcomes rather than information delivery, with pricing justified by the value of results delivered rather than personal brand or following size. Successful high-ticket offers require crystal-clear, specific outcomes that are easy for prospects to say yes to, and should be structured with front-end programs ($5,000-$15,000) that move clients from bad to good, followed by mastermind programs ($25,000-$40,000) that move them from good to great. The key to high-converting presentations is describing the audience's problems better than they can, which establishes authority and creates instant credibility.
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100 Million Dollar Playbook with Russ RuffinoAdded:
Hello. Hello and welcome. Welcome. I'm so excited that you're here today. Today we have an incredible honor and I want you to be introduced to the guest that we have today. And so today we're going to be talking to Russ Rafino. And Russ is a living legend. Let me tell you about him. So Russ has achieved the 0.01% 01% chance in the coaching industry by achieving over a hundred million dollar in revenue with his company. He's helped over 6,000 coaching clients in his company clients on demand demand and he has literally pioneered selling high ticket programs to ice cold traffic when the entire industry did not even think that that was possible. His top clients have invested over $852,000 in him and keep coming back again and again. And he is widely considered to be one of the best direct response copyriters on the planet. His first year online, he went from being a bartender of 10 years to selling $250,000 worth of low ticket products starting at $27 and $97.
and he very quickly had um found himself on the Inc 500 list. And when he pivoted to high ticket sales, he had a 200 I think it I'm not sure the exact details, but I think it was like one of your first months was a 200k month. Is that it, right?
>> Yeah. As soon as I did high ticket.
Yeah.
>> That's so insane. So cool. Um and what made me really want to bring on Russ is just how much he like leads with like so much integrity in everything that he's done. I have had multiple friends go through his program and it has been life-changing. I have three friends who have become millionaires in the container with Russ Rafino and I just think that like every aspect of what he does just like leads with heart contribution realness and outside of that he's just like a really fun cool down to earth guy. So Russ, how you how you doing?
>> I'm good. What an intro. That was very nice. Thank you and thank you for doing this. This is such a good idea.
>> It's just like so fun. I was like I I told the audience this, but like literally I had a dream and it was like Russ Trafino is helping me build a $97 $97,000 office and I was like, "Well, that doesn't sound likely, but I'll ask him."
>> Nice. Yeah. And I was like, "Sure, that sounds fun. Let's do it." And then you made all these crazy AI videos that were so fun. Like >> it was great.
>> Yeah. I like the I'm really glad you have a great sense of humor. Because I think that they were just uh they were over the top. I loved it.
>> My team was going nuts. Like my team was like, "Oh my god, this is amazing." Like all of our ads need to feature this kind of craziness. It was fun. It was good.
>> We'll definitely help you out with that.
Russ is also a photos party student.
He's also someone who's been part of our photos party community. Okay. So, we are going to go into um what we're going to talk about today. And here's what it is.
By the way, if you're tuning in the replay, definitely put replay in the chat. And here's what we're going to go through. So, we're going to talk about how to craft a $5,000 to $15,000 offer that earns more with less of your personal time. We're going to give you a repeatable system to get premium clients without posting your life away. We're going to share with you how you can go from cold stranger to take my money in 24 hours. Where premium clients are actually hanging out when you don't have a massive following and how to position your offer to attract dream clients and repel the nightmare ones. We'll also be going through something that Russ is insanely good at, which is structuring a high converting presentation.
And I know this because I've also been trained by some of the best people in the world. And I was like, so funny like I didn't I didn't train with Russ and I still did well. It's amazing. Um trained with a different Russ. Um okay.
Um I didn't know of you at the time, by the way. I think you started like you started in 2013 and I started in 2014.
>> Oh wow.
>> Yeah. Um okay. All right. So cool. Um, so just to for a heads up for the audience, the first two questions that I ask Russ are going to be like around um my offer and helping me position it. But I want you to know that like you you getting the most value out of this is of the utmost importance to me. So, while the first questions, the two of the first two of them will be geared towards me, I want you to think about the your own answers as we go through this so that you can get the most out of it because Russ's principles are tried and true. And so, what applies to me will likely also apply to you. Okay. Okay.
>> That rhymed, Bonnie.
>> What's that?
>> I said that rhymed.
>> It rhymes. Yeah, we rhymed.
>> Russ's principles are tried and true.
What applies to me applies to you.
>> It did. Yeah, that's the actor in you. I love it. Um, okay. Um, yeah. So, okay.
So, I'm gonna talk to you guys. So, the the offer itself is the place where I've been spinning. And what I'm what I know to be true of you is that you believe like what I believe, which is that it's so important to effectively apply like an icky guy framework, which is in order to sell something in mass quantity really well, you have to love it. You have to be really good at it. You have to give like exceptional results continually, continually. And then the world needs to need it. Like you have to have a market for it. For me personally, I like to also add like and if you can also have it serve like a wider mission, that's awesome. So, here's where things are sticky for me. What I know that I can deliver really, really well is that I'm really good at the art of getting someone to say, "Yes, I'm in."
Persuasion for me, ethical persuasion is like a love. I think it's cool. Like I love the art of being like, "Oh, well, how do we like how do we get so many people to reply come to the webinar and how do we get uh a video to go viral?"
And I've been lucky to have like insane industry stats. So, I've had um my our low ticket funnel, we were making $10 per page viewer at its peak. Um, our highest conversion rates were 33% and they lingered around 28% for our low ticket funnel for a really long time. We sold 913 customers in 6 months, 1300 courses in our first year and I stopped promoting it in like October. Um, so like low ticket funnels are really something I know really well. And the cool thing is that every piece of that I know how to do with AI. Like the landing pages with AI, the um the finding your voice on social media with AI, the um uh pretty much like all the course creation, all of it. Um, so I'm really strong with that. what I love to do and like what I think I'm here for is like I just love like I I love like art. I love the visuals. I like these crazy videos.
Like do I think I'm the best at it in the world? I do not.
Like I don't. Um but I I think that's fun and like I see myself like making documentary films and like doing really cool things. And what I feel my purpose is is I want to help women like really like collectively rise in their leadership and be seen all over the world and help women um in their visibility like effectively heal the planet. Like I feel like when women seen on this planet like there is so much good that comes from that. Women are the whistleblowers. We help start movements.
Um and so that's like what's in my heart of like what I'm my mission is. The gap is I don't know that I would enjoy like sitting around and like helping people with their copy. Like I think I would only want a facilitator to do that or hiring a copywriter because the day-to-day of getting into like 10 people's copy like it would overwhelm me. I'd start thinking about all their avatars, you know. So yeah, so that's a little bit of the gap. And so and I do intend to continue with my low ticket funnel. I have no idea how I'm going to reposition it, but yeah. And the only other thing I think that's worth saying is I have all of these courses that are already created and are excellent. I created every outcome I had. I just turned it into a full-fledged program.
So, I created a I have sold $10,000 offers for one-on-one. I turned that into a course, high ticket sales. Um, I have a world-class outsourcing course. I I turned that into a premium program.
Um, I uh yeah, like I think that I I've helped influencers go viral and get millions upon millions of views. My top client has 2.8 million followers. We've helped both of my like viral clients get like I don't even know how many millions of views like ton my like he's had like half a billion views and like we used AI systems to help him with his script writing. So like >> so I've got a lot of skills um and and I've documented a lot of that um already in courses. So I have a lot of the pieces that you recommend already.
>> Okay.
>> Do you want me to just like riff on everything you said?
>> I saw you're like the genie. Are you going to make it happen? Like >> Yeah. No, that's it. I'm just I got you.
Don't even worry. This is how you make a bajillion dollars in five seconds. No.
Okay. Um Okay. So, for all of you guys, when you're talking about creating a high ticket program, the difference between low ticket and high ticket is that low ticket tends to be information and high ticket tends to be transformation. So, what justifies the high ticket price is not like your, you know, personal brand or or, you know, how big your following is or any of that stuff. You know, we've helped a lot of coaches build, you know, six, seven, and eight figure businesses now. And none of the coaches that we have helped do that have ever had a huge following. So, what counts is the value of the outcome that you deliver. So, that's like the most important thing. So, can you guys hear me? Do I have to turn my mic up? Someone said, "Yeah, sounds lower."
>> Okay. Yeah, no problem. Let me just go to my audio settings.
How about now, guys? Is that better?
Oh, wait. Hold on.
>> Yes.
>> Okay, that's better. Here, let me just uh hang on. It's on automatically adjust microphone. How about now, guys? Is that good?
Okay, cool. All right, awesome. So, it's about the value of the outcome that you deliver. That's the most important thing. So, what we would want to do, Bonnie, is take your skill set and instead of saying, "Okay, this is a how-to course like or this is like how to, you know, I don't know, like make AI videos or something like that." You want to point that in the direction of a transformational outcome that people really want. So like for example uh my friend Daniel has an offer where it's like we guarantee that you will get I forget what the number is you know a million views on your YouTube videos in 60 days like or you don't pay and that's like a 10 or $15,000 program and they're doing like two three million a month with that because the outcome is clear and that's what I want you guys to understand whenever I see like a high ticket offer that's not working. It's usually because the outcome is vague, right? Like, you know, I I I you know, I help people change the world, you know what I mean?
Or I help people like achieve their dreams. Like a lot of the life coaches that come to us, that's kind of what they start with, you know, like, "Hey, Russ, I'm a life coach. I help people live their best life." It's like, "Okay, like like what does that mean?" Okay. So the clients that we've helped crush it, we've taken their skill set and we've distilled it down to a very specific outcome. Okay? So like for example, my client Meg, she was a marriage and family therapist in Australia. She was seeing couples in her office, probably charging $150 an hour. Um, you know, like you do. And so with Meg, we took her skill set and we helped her turn it into an online 8-week program. And the hook we came up with was how to save your marriage even if you're the only one who wants to.
>> So like how to save your marriage even if like your husband's totally checked out or how to save your marriage even if your wife's totally checked out, whatever it is. In the last few years, they've enrolled 3,000 people into that high ticket program because the outcome is so easy to say yes to. And she doesn't have a big I mean she has a bigger following now, but she had zero following when she came to us. So, none of it depends on like name recognition or brand recognition or anything like that. If you have that, obviously that helps, right? Um I mean Tony Robbins can can pitch an event and be like, "We're going to change your life this weekend and you're going to walk on fire." And like millions of people are like, "Yes, sign me up." But that's because he's famous, right? So for the rest of us that are not famous, what really counts is to have that crystal clear outcome.
So Bonnie, for you, you would just want to look at your skill set, which is significant, and distill it down to like what is that like outcome that is so easy to say yes to that people will pay a5 or 10 or $15,000 price point for or even higher. Okay.
>> For me, oh, sorry, I'm interrupting.
>> Okay. So, >> for me, like what's clear is like when I'm like, oh, what do I have certainty around? is it's like, oh well, you know how you got 900 customers with from 2,000 friends? Like, that's ridiculous.
Like, that doesn't happen. That's staggering. Um, so building a low ticket offer system and the ecosystem around the copywriting and like all aspects of that to get it to be converting seems like an obvious and easy 10K like in a group program, whatever. Like to me, I'm like, "Oh my god, yes." Right?
um >> the day-to-day of that I just don't know that I would enjoy like I I feel like I do you think I should just hire a copywriting like assistant because I know that if I have on a container I'm just going to be thinking about all of their client avatars.
>> No, no, totally. So So the way that you do it is you think about your program in terms of point A and point B. Okay? Okay, so like here's point A where they don't have a successful low ticket funnel and then here's point B where they have one and then you break the journey from point A to point B up into milestones. All right, so maybe the first milestone is just getting clear on like the offer.
Okay, and then the second milestone, you know, is creating the copy and then the third milestone is actually building out the low ticket funnel and so on and so forth. Okay. So, you break the journey up into milestones and then every week you give them enough content to get to that first milestone and nothing else.
>> Mhm.
>> Because you don't want to overwhelm them, right? So, like you're not even going to get into the copywriting and stuff until after they know what their offer is.
>> You know what I mean? You're not even going to get into like how to drive traffic until you have the freaking funnel set up because otherwise what's the point? So, you give it to them a little bit at a time so that they don't get buried. They don't get overwhelmed.
You don't want your high ticket programs to be like a grab bag of information that they have to like sift through. You want to give it to them just a little bit at a time and then coach them and hold their hand every step of the way.
So like for example, week one they get whatever modules you've got about how to figure out what your offer is. And then you do one group Q&A call per week on Zoom. Everybody gets on there together and they can ask you whatever they want.
You can look at their offers, etc., etc., etc. Okay. And then Bonnie, it's really easy to bring on a coaching team once you have those frameworks in place because then you can train them on your frameworks and AI makes it even easier because now you've got the clawed skills, you've got, you know, whatever you've got so that your copywriters like are operating from within that framework. Okay? So like for example, one of the things that we give to our clients when they first because that's basically how our program is structured too, right? The first thing we do with our clients is we have to figure out what the offer is, just like you and I are doing now. So the way that we do that in clients on demand, Bonnie, is we distill everything down to a one-page document that we call a mission statement. And the mission statement basically says, "This is the outcome I provide. This is my target audience.
Like this is why they need this. This is the heaven. This is the hell. These are my eight steps that I'm going to take to get them from A to B in the course of this program. This is what I want to charge, etc., etc." So, but in in our program, we have AI like we have Claude embedded into the members area and it actually coaches people through the process of getting clear on what their offer is. And then once that's done, then they submit that to my copy team and then we get a human pair of eyes on it. So, they don't even need to involve me in the process unless somebody comes into the program with something they never, you know, like like you know, one of our clients was this guy Brian and um he's a handstand coach and he was selling low ticket handstand coaching programs on Instagram for like $200. So, he came in and he was like, "Yeah, Russ, I want to do a high ticket handstand coaching program." And we enrolled him and right away I pulled him on Zoom and I was like, "Look, man, you just signed up for the program. you know, you just paid us, but I got to tell you, I don't know if handstand coaching is going to work. We've never done that before. If you want to give it a shot, I'm happy to go for it. Um, but if not, I'll refund you right now because I want to be, you know, in integrity. This is not something that's like a layup for us. I have no idea if this is going to work. And he was like, "Look, man, no, no, let's let's just try it. Let's give it a shot." And thank God we did because he crushed it. Um, I won't get into income numbers for FTC [ __ ] but like it was amazing. So um anyway my point is once you have the frameworks in place once you are you know using all your knowledge of AI which you probably even know more about it than I do and you integrate that in as well your dayto-day involvement should be that you personally Bonnie only have to step in if it's something your team can't figure out like somebody comes to you like a really weird offer you know or some some random thing but your team can run your program pretty much autonomously. So, in our eightweek program, clients on demand, like I'm barely involved in that at all because I don't need to be.
>> Does that make sense?
>> That's so good. Oh, Russ, this is so good. Love it. I just love how you think in terms of scale and outsourcing. It just makes me so happy.
>> Yeah. No, it's like like look look like like the one thing I want you guys to understand is and the one thing I want you to understand is you can have it just the way you want it. You can be as involved as you want. you can be as like you know like look it's it's and this is something probably everyone here who's mission driven really needs to understand it's not your job to change lives it's your job to build a machine that changes lives >> and that's so important for you guys to understand because it's like it's like Steve Jobs if Steve's jobs you know because they they started Apple computer in his garage you know and you can see it like this is how We think, "No, no, no. I'm the only one who knows how to build these computers. I got to I got to screw all of them in by hand. No one else can do it but me." You know what I mean? And and then none of us would have like I I wouldn't be talking to you on my MacBook. You know what I'm saying?
Like it's it's it's it's creating something amazing, creating a transformational architecture that changes people's lives and then systematizing it so that it runs with or without you. You know what I'm saying?
So that like if you you know I I like to think and I don't know if this is true or not but hopefully if I got hit by a bus tomorrow or something like that like clients on demand could just keep right on rolling because I don't need to be involved in the dayto-day except in those edge cases. Now where I really get involved is in our higher tier masterminds. I'm very involved with those people. But that's the kind of advanced work that I really really like to do.
>> Yeah. I love that. Well, I hope you don't get hit by a bus. That would make me very sad.
>> No. Yeah.
>> Um that is amazing. Okay, cool. And so like just like quick rapidfire like like one sentence is fine, but I have like all these other courses like an outsourcing course and all these other things I've accomplished. Do I just shove them and put them on the shelf or do you think I should just keep them in my low ticket ecosystem as like part of like of like something that maybe we sell on autopilot at 1,400 bucks?
>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. like like I would use those as like lead genen to go into your higher ticket program. So it's not like you have to scrap your lower ticket offers. Um but what what you would do is you'd use your lower ticket stuff as a bridge into your higher ticket stuff. So it's just like different sort of like portals into your world. So I don't have a lot of this stuff, but like let's say I did have a low ticket program about you know like like I had a I don't know $500 program about how to make a great webinar. That's cool. People would buy that. But that's just like one tiny piece of the puzzle. And if you really want something transformational, now you got to come and and do the and do the whole the whole pro muted. So I wouldn't scrap um necessarily your low ticket stuff.
You've you've still got it there. It's it's in your arsenal and there's a lot of different ways that you can use the low ticket to go into the high ticket, which is you know more and more people are doing that now.
You're muted, Bonnie. I think everybody got muted.
>> Oh, yeah. I saw that. Okay. Um, great.
Thank you for that. So, wow. Pricing. Well, what do I charge for this program? Like, this is my first >> I have a big ego. Like, with this service, I'm going to tell you, people know me for $24 offers, but like the last time I did oneonone, I did 10k for like um three months, which to me was a lot at the time. And so like, but now that I've had so many more results and I've worked with so many more people, like that was years ago. Like I would think like I'm like, "Oh my god." Like I I don't want to cheapen myself, but I also don't want to make it unrealistic for people. So yeah, how do we figure out what to charge?
>> Okay, so this is what most of our clients do. And I'll just like map this architecture out for you guys so you can see it. Can you guys see what I'm like drawing here? Okay, cool. So most of our clients do this way. And you do not have to do this, but for most of our clients, there's a front-end program and that's $5,000 to $15,000.
And that usually is about going from bad to good. Okay? So, like, in other words, my marriage is an absolute disaster.
We're hurdling toward divorce. Like, it's it's not good. I work with you for eight weeks. You get us communicating again. We're talking again. And now it's like, you know what? We're working it out and it's okay. It's going to be all right. Like, we're not going to get divorced. Okay, cool. Well, we all know that like we're working it out is not like by any stretch of the imagination as good as things can possibly be in a marriage, right? It's a whole other level of happiness and joy on top of that. So, that's where most of our clients have their mastermind. And so when people graduate from their 8-week front-end program, they usually will then enroll into like a 12-month mastermind. Okay? And that 12-month mastermind is about going from good to great. So now we're going from like, okay, we're just we're not going to get divorced, which is a big leap from where they were before, but that's like nowhere near as good as it can get. And then in that 12-month mastermind, that's where the really high ticket stuff happens. And that's generally speaking like 5x to maybe 8x the the investment of the front-end program. So if your front-end program is $5,000, maybe your one-year mastermind would probably be somewhere between 25,000 and $40,000 for that for that mastermind. And that would be about going from good to great. And then if you want to, you can even have another level on top of that which is like from great to like legendary. So like think of it like this. Let's say your front-end program was about like helping people lose 30 pounds. Okay, great. And then maybe the next level program is like, "Okay, we're going to we're going to get you into like really really good shape." And then the the highest level program is like, "Okay, now you're going to be running like Spartan races and stuff like that." You see where I mean where it's like every level it's going from bad to good, from good to great, from great to like legendary. So it really depends on how you want to do it, Bonnie. If they're enrolling into either a 12-month program or they're enrolling into like a really intense like done for you, something like that, um, that's easily something that can command somewhere between a 50k to 100k price point. Um, on the other hand, if you're gonna, and this is what I suggest for most people, is get them into like an eight-week program that solves that specific problem, that should usually run somewhere between a $5,000 to $20,000 price point, and then from there, you can uplevel them into something that's more expensive, that's like a that's like a one-year program.
Does that make sense?
>> That totally makes sense. So, I wouldn't be starting with my $97,000 offer. The dream was wrong.
No, you can if you want to, but like like so for example, like we just did this um like about I want to say it was maybe two years ago. I just was just like look, let's come up with just like a crazy offer. And so the offer was I will build your entire high ticket webinar funnel myself um and we will run the traffic for six months. And I was like, you know what, we'll charge $100,000 for it. And I just blasted that out to my list, Bonnie. And I didn't think anybody was going to do anything with it. We had like eight people sign up like that day. Like in the next like three days after I sent that email, we had like eight people sign up. We like $800,000. And then I was like, "Oh god, now I actually have to like do this." You know? So you can lead in with a super high ticket offer, but the outcome has to justify it. Like in this case, like I'm going to build your high ticket webinar funnel myself and we're going to run the traffic for six months. You know what I mean? And make it make it really crush. And that justify that high ticket price point.
So, a $97,000 offer is totally feasible, but it's got to have the appropriate level of like like sexiness to it, if that makes sense. And that usually comes down to either done for you or like a higher level of access to you where like, you know, like in my highest level mastermind, it's like you get, you know, like a private Slack channel with me.
Like I I'll get on Zoom with you whenever you want. You know what I mean?
Like that that's the kind of offer that's approaching that like 80 $100,000 price point.
>> Love it. Okay. Amazing. Also, what a horrible problem having $800,000 come in in three days.
>> I did freak out though. I I did was like, "Oh god, like what have I done, but we ended up, you know, we ended up doing well for those people." So, it was good.
>> That's so fun. Um Okay, great. Um I just want to let people know in the chat that we are going to take your questions at the end. That's like totally part of what we're doing, just so you know.
Okay. Um, so next question is, so I have a thousand buyers, which is cool.
>> Okay.
>> A lot of people here don't um yet have a thousand buyers. Um, so for me, I would imagine I would just market to my own list first to sell my offer. Yes. But for people who like don't yet, what would be your plan for them to start finding >> these incredible clients?
>> So in our 8week program, Clients on a Man, that is who the program is designed for. So almost all of the like big success stories that you hear about like like I can't think of any of them that came to us with like a big audience, a big following, a huge buyer list, you know what I mean? Like if someone comes to me, like if you come to me, Bonnie, and you're like, "Yeah, I have a list of a thousand buyers. We put together your high ticket offer." And I'm like, "Cool.
Send these five emails and you're going to make a ton of money, you know, but obviously it's not it's not Yeah, obviously it's not that easy with, you know, like people that don't have that.
Like Meg is another great example. She's a therapist. She like no social media presence. She you know what I mean? Like like we're literally starting from scratch. The only thing we had to work with was this was the the raw material in her brain. But that's enough. So the process if you don't have a following that we follow with everybody in our 8week program is this. Number one, we get you crystal clear on the offer and like what's that offer? Who's the target audience? What's the positioning like I just talked about. Then we show you guys how to tap into whatever warm audience you do have. So if you do have a buyer list, great. Or even if you just have social media followers or even if it's just people you know in real life. We teach our clients a really cool like low-key way, totally not salesy, to just like reach out to anybody that you know that might need this and then you kind of ask for their feedback and in the course of getting that feedback, a lot of people end up wanting to like actually sign up for your stuff. So, so if if there is lowhanging fruit to pick up, we might as well pick it up. But let's assume there's not. For those people, then you've got to build a cold traffic funnel. And so that's the funnel that we build for our clients is how do you drive traffic from an ad into what we call a master class. A master class is like a 25 to 35 minute like mini webinar and then on that mini webinar we offer them the chance to book a call and then they can book a call with you and then on that call you can enroll them into the high ticket offer. So we build that out with all the copy all the tech stuff. We show you how to drive traffic into it. Um, you know, on how to do it on a budget, how to do it if you have a bigger budget, all the different levels.
And and then that's basically it. Like at the end of the day, you either have your warm audience, which is, you know, we show you how to tap into it if you've got it, but if not, you're going to need a funnel that turns people who don't know you into high ticket buyers.
>> So, let's talk about the spend there and like what that typically like looks like. And um like and so one of the things that I like loved in my research of your materials was seeing that you like you very easily break down how 100k a month is very easy possible doable um with your system and I'd love for you to share that with our audience here today.
Um for me personally like I'm really curious about like what did the advertising costs look like? What should your KPIs look like? um how do you know when you should be like what should you be spending um for each lead and da >> yeah so obviously this is going to vary a little bit according to your niche so like let's say someone comes to me and they're like Russ you know I only want to coach the CEOs of businesses that are doing over $und00 million a year okay well that's going to be a more expensive market to reach right but like most of you guys are probably running offers for just like normal people like like regular um you know either business to like like small business or like business to consumer. Okay. So for those markets the the KPI that we shoot for for everybody is you want to be able to get a qualified call booked for about like a hundred to $200 in ad spend. And then you want to be enrolling about like 25% of the people that you talk to. So, if you have a $5,000 program, I would want to see your cost to acquire be around $1,000. Now, again, that varies, but if at the end of the day, if that's what we're doing, you're spending a dollar on Facebook and you're making $5 back >> and I'll do that all day long. And now, look, even if I'm spending a dollar on Facebook and I'm making $3 back, I'll I'll like, yeah, I'll play that game all day long, too. So, that's what you're shooting for. um you want to have that positive return on ad spend and you want to be making back at least a few dollars for every dollar you spend on advertising. And when you're doing that now you've got something that you can scale. So our clients that we've helped scale, you know, to whatever number, they didn't start at that number. They probably started spending out, you know, $40 a day on ads, $50 a day on ads, and then scaled from there. Um right, you know, once you establish like, okay, cool. You know, I'm spending $100 to get a call booked, and for every five or six calls I get booked, I enroll someone into my $6,000 program. Okay, great. Now let's spend a little more. Now let's spend a little more. Now let's spend a little more. And then let's bring on a sales team to handle those calls for you, you know, and then you can grow from there.
>> I love that. I love that. So I remember you said that the presentation is where a lot of people mess it up. Like there's been a million people who have copied what you've done um tried to take your business model, call it their own, which is so rude.
>> How dare they?
>> It's really awful. Um, but then they don't they're not even able to execute it because the presentation part that high converting persuasion that you do so masterfully like that that part is the part that they mess up. So I'm curious what does it really take and what's working right now for those high presentations like what are the what do you need to have in it? What are the persuasion principles?
All of it.
>> Okay. So obviously it starts with like the hook and and that's what we spend a lot of time on like just like with Meg like um how to save your marriage even if you're the only one who wants to. And that hook is usually like how to X without Y or how to you know X even if Y like so for example how to get a million views on your Instagram reels in 60 days even if no one knows who you are. Like that's a really solid hook. You could totally run with a hook like that. Do you know what I mean? Like how to create um you know hundreds of uh you know hundreds of Instagram reels every month um with your face without ever stepping in front of a camera. Do you know what I mean? Like like how to awesome without suck. That's the basic formula that most of these fall into. Got that guys? How to do this awesome specific thing without having to do this shitty thing they don't want to do. Okay. All right.
So that's where it starts. That's the hook that forms the base of the offer.
That forms the reg, you know, the basics like the headline of the landing page.
And then like the first like slide of your of your the title of your presentation should basically be that.
Then we really quickly talk about who it's for. Like here's who this is for so you know you're in the right place. Um and then we we rapidly stack like what are the benefits of that they're going to get from watching this. And then we get to the most important part.
The the big question I get all the time, guys, is like, if I'm working with people who don't have a big audience, who don't have a big following, who don't have a bunch of testimonials, who don't have any of those things, how do we establish authority? How do we establish credibility? And the best way to do that is is to use this principle. When you describe your audience's problems better than they can, they automatically assume that you know the answer.
Okay. When you describe someone's problems better than they can, they automatically assume that you know the answer. Okay. So, Bonnie, just to use you as an example, and this would like never happen, but let's say you're watching a master class and I'm like talking about like, you know, hey, you know, does this sound like you? Have you ever been um getting a Thai massage and the person tweaked your arm the wrong way and now all of a sudden you have this like crippling pain in your shoulder or whatever it is? The next words out of your mouth would be like, "Yes, how do I fix it?" Right? Because I'm describing the problem better than you can. And so, and so this is true for like business coaching, for marriage coaching, for anything like that. If I can describe your daytoday experience of the problem, immediately you're going to go, "Oh my god, yes. How do I fix it?"
And that reaction is so much more powerful than testimonials or case studies or letters after your name or wearing a white lab coat or any of that stuff because those things appeal to the conscious part of the brain. But when I tell you exactly what you had for breakfast this morning and what was wrong with it, that goes back here to the crocodile part of the brain and you immediately go, "Oh my god, yes. How do I fix this problem?" So, we spend a lot of time there with our clients nailing down that description of like like what is your audience's daytoday experience of this problem and why does it suck so much? And then we do something that's even more powerful. We take all of those um problems that they think that they have and we reframe them as just being symptoms of a bigger problem they're not even thinking about.
>> Yes. Yes. Okay.
So, like I don't know if you guys remember I I might be dating myself here, but I don't know if you guys remember that DVD The Secret that came out like back in like 2006. Do you guys remember that? Okay. The reason that thing went viral is this is exactly what they did. They said, "Look, you know, you know, do do you want to make more money? Are you having health problems?
Are you having relationship problems?
You know, can can you you know, are do you not have the job that you want? Do you not have the life that you want?"
Well, guess what? None of those things are the real problem. The real problem is that you're not using this thing you've never heard of called the law of attraction. And once you start using that law of attraction, all these other problems are going to solve themselves.
But unless you start taking control of your life using the law of attraction, you're going to struggle with these things forever. So think about what they've done there. They've created their own economy. Because now if I accept that premise, like let's say I was about to read a relationship book.
Well, now I can't read that because it doesn't address this law of attraction thing, which is the real problem, right?
I was about to read a book about how to grow a great business. Well, it's not talking about law of attraction. The law of attraction is the real thing. So, this is how we take these people, create instant credibility, authority by describing their audience's problem better than they can. But now, we create our own economy by showing them that all these problems they think they have are not the real problem. It's this other thing that no one else is talking about.
And if you accept that premise, then you have to hire my client because they're the only one talking about what's really going on.
>> Love it.
>> And we do all of that in the first like seven minutes of the presentation.
>> Oh, I want to know what the next seven minutes are, but I want to interject something.
>> Yeah, go ahead. So, I had a friend who um I had talked about in our posts and um he was doing $24,000 a month with his webinar and I was doing 27.
And so, um and so like he he was like talking to me. He could tell I knew a bunch of things that he didn't know yet.
And so, he's like, "Oh my god, I think we should totally collab." And I was like, "Okay, yeah." And then he uh he did your webinar framework and that was the thing that helped him go I mean there were many pieces but that was one of the most critical things for him going from 24 to 180k a month and and he was like that webinar framework is like gold Bonnie and I I was like oh wow >> feel like I have good webinar framework should >> well I mean like because the thing is like like the problem I'm trying to solve is like how do we how do I take someone who's a legit expert, right? So the people we work with are are the real deal. I'm not like taking, you know, some kid that works at Subway and being like, "Yeah, you can have a $10,000 coaching program, kid. Go for it." You know what I mean? Like it's got to be people who have, you know, who can really solve a problem. But most of the time when we get those people, they don't have testimonials. They don't have case studies. A lot of the time they don't have a lot of letters after their name. So we have to communicate in a way that's powerful and persuasive enough that it does all the heavy lifting in just that one 25 to 35 minute presentation. So that like that was the big challenge that that kind of gave gave rise to this. But it works because if you're pushing those buttons in the right order in the right way, it it creates tremendous connection and rapport with your audience, you know.
>> Yeah, that's amazing. um what are the other pieces that they need to have or should we should we go through the other pieces like of what >> Sure. Yeah, I'll walk you guys through it really quick. Um so like I said, we reframe those uh um problems that they think they have as just being symptoms of a bigger problem that they're not even like aware of, right? So that's like mind-blowing right there. Um and then we get into the five shifts. And the five shifts are basically the five pieces of core content. And you don't like teach on these things cuz that's kind of the big mistake people make.
They go, "Well, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to teach. I'm going to give them so much good value and they're going to love it so much and then they're going to like feel, you know, indebted to me and then they're going to like give me money or whatever." And I'm like, "Okay, I don't want people to give me money because they feel like they owe me something, you know." So, what you're doing in that core content is you're not teaching, you are shifting their beliefs around the problem.
>> The reason you have this problem is because you've been taught this, but that's not the truth. the truth is this and we just systematically build that case for what the real solution is. So in that first shift, we usually do some kind of value statement, right? Like some kind of like shocking thing that connects it to um connects it to value, you know, like so so maybe for yours, Bonnie, if you were doing one about like um you know, like I said, how to get you know, a bajillion views on your content in 60 days, right? you know, um the the um the the the first shift might be something totally controversial like stop trying to be authentic, you know, okay, wait, what does that mean? You know, whatever. So, it' be some kind of value shift. Then the second one is, you know, introducing them to to what is possible. And then the third one is usually like where you reveal your secret weapon. And then the fourth one is getting them to think past the sale.
So that third shift is where you're showing them how to get the outcome you promised. And then in the fourth shift, you show them how to get an even cooler outcome that they haven't even dared to dream of at that point. So like for our webinars, like in one of the webinars we used to do, the first shift was operate with total integrity, >> which at that point nobody in the coaching industry was talking about integrity. And then the second one was command premium pricing. So we showed them how to command those premium pricing. The third one is where we revealed like our client attraction system. And the fourth shift was leverage your time. So, we showed them like this is how you get clients at a $5 to $10,000 price point. But guess what?
That's not all. This is how now you can serve those clients in just like four hours a week working from anywhere in the world. So, you see what I mean? Like you get them thinking past the initial outcome to like, oh my god, this is how great things could really be. So, the third shift, let's say, is like this is your plan for saving someone's marriage.
Okay, great. Now, I know how to save the marriage. And then the fourth shift is like, okay, this is how you create more joy, more happiness than you even thought possible. So you're getting the thing past the sale. Then the fifth shift is always some form of like >> um invest in mentoring or invest in you know invest in could get like in other words like don't try this at home >> you know.
>> I love that. I love that. Amazing. Okay.
So we have got our we've got our incredible offer. Um I always like to think in scale and like you one of the privileges of having you here right now is like you just know all operations of all levels of the operation with this and so >> for me because I I do have lingering health issues and I'm still in active recovery for my lovely shoulder injury.
Um I don't have as many like waking hours as like um a completely healthy person. So, I'm like, "Okay, well, if I'm going to be doing this, unfortunately, yeah, it's a little bit better." Um, but if I'm going to be doing this, I'm like, I need to get a salesperson because that's going to sense like for me with the energy levels I have today.
>> Um, >> yeah.
>> So, with that, like, how would you go about hiring a salesperson to really scale this up? Um, and then like what do you look for in like someone who's going >> That's a great question.
>> What number should they be hitting? like what's what are the signs that you should run from them? Like I'm sure you know all of this.
>> So, we've tried using recruiters, we've tried using placement services, um you know, we've tried like people who will hire and put together a sales team for you or whatever. Um we've never gotten good outcomes that way. The best outcomes that we've gotten is literally me just like emailing my list >> and saying, "Hey, if you're a fan of what we do, you're a fan of my work and you want to sell this um and you you know, you believe in what we're doing, you know, we're looking for salespeople." And that's where we found our best people >> um like for former clients even who have gone through the program and made a bunch of money. Like they make really great sales people and maybe they don't want to do their own coaching business because not everybody wants to run their own coaching business, you know? Um and and so what you're looking for primarily is so Bonnie in every other position in the company I can tell you the exact like personality traits that you should be looking for for someone who's in customer service or for someone who's in leadership or whatever. Right?
With sales people it's a little more all over the map. We have had salespeople that I couldn't [ __ ] stand who were brilliant sales people and I just they just everything they did annoyed me but they were just great sales people. I don't know. And we've had sales people that are like incredibly charming and cool. You would you hang out with them all day long, invite them to your kids' birthday party. Um but they couldn't sell. So it's like I've realized over the years that like the sales gene is like singing. Do you know what I'm saying? Like someone can either sing or they can't. And you can't look at someone and be like, "Oh, this person's a great singer." Do you know what I mean? They could look like Pavarati or they could look like, you know, David Bowie. There's no, you know, correlation there, you know. So, what do you do?
Well, what you do is you do an initial interview to to to, you know, just feel them out. And then you teach them your sales script and you do a fullblown mock sales call with them where you or probably someone on your team pretends to be a customer and you take them through the sales call and you'll know right away whether this person has like the sales gene or whether they don't.
And that's the only reliable way that I've found to do it is you literally audition them like they were auditioning for like, you know, a play or something where it's like we're gonna do a pretend sales call. And you know, you have your whoever's playing the customer, you know, give them objections, give them curve balls, see how they respond, see how they respond to, uh, you know, resistance. Do they fold? Do they crumble? Um, you know, do they have good frame control? So, the one thing that I think is universal to all salespeople is that they do know how to have difficult conversations.
They know how to like stay in the pocket. They know how to ask tough questions and they and they don't like need to be liked.
>> And they could be very likable, but you know what I mean? There's some people that like really really need to be liked. Um, and they can't they can't be that.
>> Okay. I need to be liked.
>> Does that make does that does that make sense? We have a whole like SOP for this. Like this is like the exact hiring process. This is it's like a it's like I'll give it to you if you want. It's like a 20page SOP if we're just like when you're when you're at that point to hire a salesperson. We have a whole SOP that we give to clients.
>> I would love that. I would love that.
Okay. Um let's talk about one of my favorite things that you say which speaking of like you had said earlier that um the coaching industry really didn't talk a lot about integrity and you converse came in with the framework of results are our religion like we get you results like and and we want you as our clients to also make like results are your religion like you want to get your clients great results um and yet there are um yeah there are like I'm curious curious like I have two questions and I'm like they're both like so important so you choose where you want to go.
>> Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah.
>> One question is like I'm curious about like facilitators and like ways you like help your clients ensure they get results. But I think maybe the more interesting question is like how do you deal with the people who are just like the nightmare clients who are um they like >> Yeah. No, no, I got it.
>> Yeah. Um, I will say I encountered a lot more of those people when I was doing low ticket versus when I was doing high ticket.
>> Yeah.
>> Like we would do a launch, you know, this is back in the day and we'd sell, you know, 2,000 copies of something at $27 in like a weekend and then the next day my email would be filled with like, you know, I haven't read this yet, but I want a refund or I don't like the font you picked for this ebook. You know, I want my money back or like this is the worst thing I've ever, you know, I'm I totally regret. I mean, just like insane [ __ ] you guys. like like crazy stuff.
Um and it's like that, you know, like I'm a I'm a you know, I'm like a vulnerable person like that chips away, you know, like it's your ego, you know.
Um so I will say this, just switching to the high ticket model almost by definition is going to attract a lot fewer of those people and a lot more people that are more committed. Because think about it, if I'm investing five or 10 or 15k to work with you, like I'm going to show up committed. I'm going to show up coachable. I'm going to do everything you tell me to do. So, the percentage and you, Bonnie, get to work with fewer people and and really give them like a proper VIP experience. You know, if you have a $10,000 coaching program and you get 10 people in there, that's a $100,000 month, but you only have 10 people to take care of.
>> You know what I mean? So, like you can really give those people a VIP experience. If some of them need like a little extra coaching, no problem. If some of them need like a little extra love, okay, no problem. Um whereas like you know for the people when when you're doing a big launch and you're enrolling like hundreds of people or thousands of people it's a lot harder to do that. So you can provide a higher level of service but at the same time you're getting people that are a lot more committed because they're invested.
>> Um and that that right there really cuts down on the on the BS. And then the other thing is that you just want to make sure guys that you're setting proper expectations.
So what I have found is what what what poisons a a relationship is when the person has expectations and those expectations don't get met. Okay? Like so for example, Bonnie at the beginning of this call told you guys we're going to do a Q&A at the end of the call, right? Five minutes from now before we get to Q&A if I'm like peace guys. Like you're going to be pissed even if everything up until that point was great because we set an expectation and we didn't meet it. Okay. So part of the reason we do sales calls as opposed to just like sending people an offer dock or something like that is because it gives us a chance to properly set the expectations.
Do you know what I'm saying? It gives us a chance to say, look, you know, this is not going to be a piece of cake. This is going to be difficult. You know, you're going to be making a webinar. Maybe you've never done that before. You're going to be charging a high ticket price. Maybe you've never done that before. So it's not going to be easy.
But you know what? We will guide you and support you and hold your hand every step of the way like nobody else in this industry has. Like no one's ever believed in you or supported you in your entire life. Are you are you up for that? You see what I mean? And now they come in with that proper expectation.
They're not coming in. You know, it's like, you know, remember when we were when we were younger, there were those commercials for like Thigh Master like, you know, in like all these like like workout machines, these like late night commercials and it was like, yeah, just do the thigh master for like five minutes and you're going to, you know, look like Suzanne Summers or whoever it was, right? You know, and and like those infomercials have evolved. Like you see the ones today and now it's like, you know, now it's insanity. like you're gonna have the the hardest workout you've ever had and you're gonna, you know, throw up and you're gonna cry, but but when it's all done, you're gonna have washboard abs. So, it's like that's setting the proper expectation. It's like this program is going to suck, but at the end of it, you're going to get great results. So, you can set those frames and that goes a long way toward cutting down on the like, you know, people coming in with the wrong idea.
Does that make sense?
>> It totally makes sense. And I'm nerding out as a persuasion person. I'm like, "Oh, tell me more Russ."
>> Yeah. Right. No, no, totally. That's >> all day.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. No, I love it. It's amazing. Um, that's so cool. Okay. Um, I I think my uh I have like two mini questions. Um, so I think the we've got like five minutes, so before we go into Q&A for your questions. Um, okay. I'm curious about what you think about the future of home study courses and AI is like you're really seeing things at a much higher level than I am.
um with your industry contacts and like what you're seeing in the industry. Uh like I want to have these $1,400 home study courses and I'm intending to continue to build a strong personal brand. Um where I do feel like people will want to know my frameworks. Do you think that AI is going to kill $1,400 home study courses in the near future?
Because like right now you can instantly create like a coursing a course like from pretty much anyone and it can be great.
>> Yeah. Um here's what I think and I and I don't know. I think that the value of most information is dropping to zero for the exact reason that you said. Claude will teach you anything you want it to teach you. Okay. So, I think that the value of just pure information is going to zero unless you have like some super super super proprietary information no one else has, but that's getting like more and more rare, you know. Um, but here's what I think. I think the more buried we are in information, the more rare and precious authentic transformation is going to become. Okay, >> I have a million fitness books on that shelf right there. And yet, for some inexplicable reason, I do not have washboard abs. I don't understand. I have all the books. I have the information. Why aren't I shredded?
Well, the reason I'm not shredded is because the information isn't the goddamn problem. The problem is accountability and leadership and commitment. And those are things that AI cannot give you. And I really want you guys to hear this. If I promise Claude that I'm gonna work out today and I don't and Claude's like, "Yeah, Russ, why didn't you work out today?" I'm like, "I don't care. You're a computer.
You're a robot. Like, you're here to serve me." Like, there's no like there's no cost to that. But if I tell Bonnie, "Hey, Bonnie, I'm going to meet you, you know, at Equinox today and we're going to work out together." And I don't show up, do you see what I mean? There's a real cost to that. So, human beings have the ability to hold each other accountable and only human beings can really hold each other accountable. So, you guys have this opportunity like never before to have these kinds of programs that create real transformation. Everybody's going to try going to Claude and say, "Hey, Claude, give me a workout nutrition plan."
They're all going to have it. It's going to be customized for them. It's going to be exactly right. No one's going to get in shape.
>> You see what I mean? like like you can't ask Claude, "Hey Claude, how do I save my marriage?" Claude could give you a really good plan, but I promise you that's not going to be enough. So, it's these in-depth transformational programs I think are not going anywhere. And in fact, I think they're going to become more valuable. I think leadership is going to become more valuable.
Accountability is going to become more valuable. I think in-person experiences are going to become more valuable. And I think real authentic community is going to become more valuable as well. So, I don't think and this could just be cope, okay? I could just be like wishful thinking, you know, being that guy that's like, "Oh, you know, AI is never going to replace me." But I really do think that makes sense because I don't know how chat GPT is going to hold me accountable to become the person that I was born to be. Only another person can do that.
>> I love it. Um, I was going to ask you, what's your favorite client? Like what like warms your heart with your clients, but we're really at time. Um, >> no, I'll answer that real quick.
>> I'll answer it real quick.
>> Like, yeah. I don't It's your heart.
>> Yeah. I don't geek out on my client's results. I geek out on my client's clients results.
>> A >> so like Meg is a great example. You know, her success rate in the marriage program that we helped her build is about 98%.
>> And she's put over 3,000 couples through that program. That's like 3,000 marriages that are going to stay together. And last time I saw Meg, she was like, "Russ, you know, there's human beings that exist right now because you helped me get my marketing dialed in."
And I was like, "What do you mean?" And she's like, "Well, there's a lot of these couples and they were going to get divorced and they didn't. And now they have kids. And those people literally would not exist if they had gotten, you know, divorced." My client, um, Dr. Becky is amazing. She has this program where she helps dyslexic kids learn to read. And so she'll come to me and they go from literally reading in the bottom 10% of their class to the top 10% of their class. And she'll be like, "Oh my god, like, you know, Randy, look at his test scores. You know, Jacob, look at his test scores. Michelle, look at her test scores." Like that. And I'm just like, I'll do that all day. You know what I mean? Because I helped her get her marketing dialed in. Now there's kids that can read because I helped me get her stuff dialed in. Now there's families that are going to stay together. So for me, that's what gets me out of bed in the morning. That's why I'm still doing this after 13 years. I haven't started like a software company or I haven't whatever because that's what I love. It's like this karma like ripple effect that's just like amazing and it's making the world a better place. And it's like, cool. If that's what I'm going to devote my life to, I'm good with that.
>> I think that's why we're having this conversation because like one of the foundational things for me with the million-dollar movement is like helping women create movements because of exactly that reason. Like I've been exposed to a lot of wealth in my life and I've been on private jets and who the [ __ ] cares like like like and one of the things I love about you is like yes also you have right but that's not the like when you market yourself you're not showing all that like what you're talking about is like how can I change like millions of lives and to me like that's so like that's so [ __ ] cool.
So thank you for just like saying that and like leading with that. I'm sure there's so many people here who are curious about how they would work with you or like what that would look like more about that.
>> So, a couple quick things. Um, the first thing is you guys are more than welcome to book a call with my team. Um, if you want to do that, you go to clients demand.com/apply. We can talk about like where you're stuck in your business, what you need help with, you know, what your high ticket offer might look like, etc., etc. So, that's there for you guys as a resource. But, I also put together something cool. I took the remember I mentioned before that we have like a clawed like like bot that will coach you through the process of kind of figuring out what your high ticket offer is. I put that on a page for you guys and um you guys can actually interface with that bot even though you're not like in my like high ticket program. And so if you want access to that you got to DM us on Instagram. So it's Russfino on Instagram and the code word is Bonnie.
So, just DM me Bonnie on Instagram and we'll shoot you access to that tool and you can go in there and it'll actually like coach you through the process of figuring out like your mission statement. So, what I would suggest that you guys do is go to clientson demand.com/apply, book a call with my team. It's probably going to be like a few days from now because the calendar is super packed right now. But then go and get that tool, map out your high ticket offer, and then bring that to the call with the team so we can go through it together and kind of like validate it and uh you know, help you help you figure out if that's actually going to work, you know?
>> Yeah, I love that. That's so generous.
Everyone in the chat is blowing up and saying they're so excited and they're so grateful. What? Like, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I love it.
>> Yeah. Yeah, sure.
>> Amazing.
>> You guys will love it. It's a really fun tool. You guys will have fun playing with it. And if you guys Someone said they don't have Instagram.
Just DM um my coordinator. It's just Franzie. I think it's Franzie rustfino.com. If you guys can't reach us on Instagram, you can just email Fronzy directly. She'll she'll get you guys set up.
>> Nice. Love it. Um okay, great. So, it's Q&A time. Um how would you like to structure the Q&A? Like, do you want to um You are more experienced with this than I am.
Uh, >> so we can do rapid fire where you guys just type your questions in the chat or if you guys want to raise your hands, we could like call on you and we can I'm happy to talk to you guys. Okay, I guess Chris, that's what Cassandra wants to do.
>> Okay, great. Let's do Let's do a hand raise, Cassandra.
>> Okay, cool.
Um, Cassandra, can you unmute yourself?
>> Yeah, you can.
>> Thank you so much. This is so exciting.
Um, so I'm going to pick your brain, but thank you for everything you've just shared for resources. That's amazing.
Um, so I'm one of those crazy health and life coaches, a spiritual health and life coach who can do everything >> and has no clients because, you know, >> um, you can do everything.
>> I tend to, yeah, I get I get stuck in my head. I'm not trying to make excuses, but I am a brain injury survivor and I think sometimes it makes it difficult for me to narrow things down, but my burning question is this. Um, I've been looking at some other people out there and I'm wondering if I have too much selection on my website. So, I have a number of different um psychic uh services available plus onetoone coaching. And I'm wondering if I should just be going to like I have one service. It's $444 and it's like a blueprint, you know, for life sort of thing. And I do a number of things with with my clients in that. And I feel like it's um, you know, it's um the step before someone would engage in a onetoone high ticket. So, should I just go to those two options or I'm just curious what you think of that?
>> Yeah. So, so, so this is like by far the biggest roadblock that we see that stops like legit experts with a lot of good that you can do in the world from kind of getting off the ground. And it's positioning what you do according to the service you provide and not the outcome that you deliver. Okay? So, for example, if you are a relationship coach and I go to your website and it says, "Hey, I'm, you know, Natalie Chapron or whatever and I'm the relationship coach and it's like, okay, well, what is relationship coaching worth?" Right? $100 an hour or $200 an hour, you know what I mean? Like $400 a session or whatever it is, right?
The outcome of saving your marriage, the outcome of finding the love of your life, those things are priceless.
relationship coaching, $200 an hour.
Saving your marriage, priceless. So, what you would want to do, Cassandra, is you would want to look at your skill set and think of it and look at it through a different lens. Not what is the service that you do for people, but what is the outcome that you help them achieve and that is what you build your high ticket program around. And look, that takes a little bit of soularching. And we have to do that for every single freaking client who comes in the door. So I want you to understand like it's not just you, you know, like think about it. If you're a life coach, a life coach can, you know, like like really good example is my my my number one at my company, Jane Juel. Um she got certified by Tony Robbins when she was 13 cuz her mom worked for Tony. She's 55 now, so she's done nothing but mindset performance coaching at the highest level. If you go to her and you say, "Jane, I want to be the world sumo wrestling champion." she will get you there faster than you could on your own. The problem is she can help anybody with anything. So for her to come up with a high ticket program, she has to focus down into like what is that one problem that she wants to specialize in solving.
>> Does that make sense, Cassandra?
>> Yeah, it does. Can you just speak do am I am I also leaving too much room for confusion for my prospective clients when they visit and see too many selections?
>> Possibly. Yeah. But what I would do, and this is what we do with all our clients, is choose that one one problem you're going to solve. Build a transformational program around it. Charge a 5 or 10 or 15k price for it. And then it's just like yes or no. Do you want to save your marriage or not? Because people don't know what they need. If I come to your website and it's like the salad bar where okay, I could do a one-on-one session with you or, you know, a video session or over the phone session or you know what I mean? It's like, well, well, I don't I don't know. But if it's like, hey, Russ, do you want to save your marriage? Yes or no? Yeah, let's do that.
Okay, thank you so much.
>> You got it. Makes everything easier when you connect what you do to a a powerful outcome that they need. Ann, >> well, first I want to thank Bonnie.
Thank you so much for putting this together. I've been following you for a while and as a photographer, what you're doing is amazing. And you I'm also in the AI space and um I'm an educator in the photography space and a speaker and I'm very careful of what I have to post because I get hate stuff on AI, right? I mean they're like the AI is never going to replace the connection. So I have to like always have that uh in between. Um and but I love AI. I am also um now in in that space for about three years. But my question to you Roz um is my client is a woman in her 40s to 70. Okay. She's >> okay.
>> She's been sold to by any every single coach in the industry. She's spent anywhere from a,000 to 30,000 on all these programs. And like you said, she still doesn't have a six-pack, right?
she still feel uh and and a lot of my friends in the coaching industry are saying right now because of economy because of over the oversaturated noise now everybody with AI has so much knowledge in in in the coaching industry what what is your number one thing right now that you can convince that woman that's been oversold to for all these years or that person in in general, what what is the number one tip as somebody that are creating programs and things? Uh I hear like coaching uh uh courses are dead blah blah blah. I mean people are looking for more the human connection as as memberships where you actually have oneonone coach or group coaching. So where where do you see the industry is going in terms of coaching?
>> Well, so we get this like like Okay, so those are like two separate questions.
the the the first question I heard was like, "What do you say to somebody that's been burned by all these other coaching programs and how do you get them to invest with you?" That's the Okay, so um we get that objection every day. Um it was great for the first like five or six years we were in business because we were the only people doing high ticket coaching and that was it.
And it was like cool, we were the only game in town and then you know Sam Oven started doing it and traffic and funnels started doing it and they're gone now and Taki Moore started doing it all these other people started doing it. Um, so now we get that objection like almost on every call. Russ, hey, I've signed up for, you know, a $30,000 coaching program. And it got really bad in the last couple years, um, since co where, you know, occasionally we would have a conversation where someone would say, "Hey, Russ, you know, I did, you know, a program with Russell Brunson and I just didn't really vibe with him, but he was a good guy." Or like I did Taki Morris program and he's Australian. I couldn't understand what the hell he was saying, but, you know, he's a he's a good person. Over the last couple years, we've been starting to get calls of people who straight up got burned. And I mean burned. Like I Russ, I gave these guys $40,000 to join their mastermind and I never heard from them again. Like horror stories. So it started to feel like, you know, I'm I'm I'm going on a date with someone who's been on 50 horrendous dates and I'm like number 51 and I'm like, "No, I'm not an [ __ ] I swear to God." So the way that you the way that you deal with it, number one, is you accept their frame. You you you you you you say, "Yeah, most coaching programs suck." Because that's just the truth. Most restaurants suck. You know what I mean? Like like most most of anything sucks by definition. Most songs suck. You know, like what like how many songs are those songs you must want to hear all the time? So it's like look, you walked into a dark alley you thought was legit. You bought the fake Louis Vuitton handbag and you got home and you realized it was fake and you realized you got scammed. So, what are you going to do, right? Are you never going to buy another handbag for the rest of your life or are you going to walk into the real Louis Vuitton and invest in the real thing? And that's what this is, right? You've spent money on other programs, they've let you down. I totally get that. But what are you going to make that mean? Are you going to make that mean you're never going to hit the goal? Are you going to make that mean that you're finally going to work with someone who's the real thing who can actually help you get where you want to go?
That was so good.
>> Does that help?
>> Yeah. No, for sure.
>> Yeah.
>> Sure. I mean, it's about trust, right?
>> It's it's Yeah, it's it's about trust and and again, like by the time I'm speaking to someone, they've been through like the whole process I told you where we describe the problem better than they could and we explain to them why like all the other stuff they've tried hasn't worked and why our way is different. And so, they're coming in with that foundation as well. And that also obviously makes things a lot easier, too.
>> Do you offer a money back guarantee?
>> We don't. And I'll tell you why. We've tested it and it didn't do anything to our refund rate. So, it's not like people, you know, all these people wanted refunds, but I'll tell you what it did. It people showed up less committed.
So, like if you're if if I'm coming into your program and it's a transformational program, like you are going to save my marriage or you are going to get me washboard abs or you are going to help me do something that's really scary and outside my comfort zone, I I got to come in fully committed, right? Like like if I'm sitting there going, well, I'm going to sign up with Ann. She got this money back guarantee. I'll dip my toes in the water. That person's not going to get results period because that's not the attitude that produces excellence in any field of, you know, human endeavor. So, we didn't see our refund rates change, but we did see a change in the the level of grit and tenacity that people were bringing in the program and and we stopped doing it. And I'll tell you what, Ann, it didn't increase our sales at all. Like offering the guarantee, we didn't sell more, we sold less. So, and people showed up with the wrong mindset.
So, I was like, "All right, we're never doing that again." So, >> do you like uh do an interview process before you accept people to see if they have the right mindset? I mean like some people are just looking for the easy button and then they complain because they didn't put in the work and somehow it's your fault.
>> That's such a good question. So over the last 13 years, so like look, you know, saying like like it's called qualifying, right? Everybody's seen this. Well, this isn't for everybody. You know, this is, you know, blah blah blah blah blah. This isn't for everybody. Like everyone says it, nobody means it. If you have a pulse and a credit card, usually they'll take your money. If you look over the last 13 years at Clients on Demand, we don't make an offer to about 20 to 25% of the people that we speak to.
So, we we mean it when we say it's not for everybody and we have the numbers to back it up. And the reason it's not for everybody is, like I said before, if you're, you know, an 18-year-old kid that like works at Starbucks, you know, you're not going to have a coaching program about how to save someone's marriage or how to like, you know, help people get, you know, whatever. like you have to be you have to have real expertise or we can't help you. And so part of again part of the reason we do those sales calls is it allows us to screen for the best people.
And if we don't if we feel like you're not a fit, we won't make you an offer.
And I really think that's essential, guys. Part of the reason like look, my company's called Clients on Demand. It's not called clients every once in a while. So if you have clients on demand, that means you can be picky because you never have to worry about where the next client is going to come from. you can choose and say, "You know what?" And we've all had that experience, right?
Like you've had that experience.
Somebody reaches out to work with you.
You get that little feeling in the back of your neck like, "Oh, I don't know. Is this person going to be a pain in the ass? I don't know." But sometimes you're so tempted to say yes because you need the money. And I never want you guys to be in that position. I want you guys to be in the driver's seat of the relationship where you could say no if you know if they're not a fit. And that's the right thing to do.
>> Yeah. All right. Thank you so much.
Appreciate it.
>> You got it. Sarah, >> hello. Hello. Hello. Thank you for being here. I love Bonnie. Bonnie's been incredible. Um, one of the things I love about Bonnie is how personal she is and how she does treat you like you just spent $100,000 with her and she makes time to talk to everybody. And really, it's something I strive to do. And um, you were mentioning the the biggest issue. I've been fighting with figuring out who I'm talking to and what I'm saying for several years now and it's infuriating and frustrating and I'm in school for my MBA and part of it is the CEO wheel and so I sent out to like 25 people, what have you noticed that I've changed in the community or other people's lives and everybody came back with almost the same responses of you create a safe space so I can feel hurt and I'm like I can't translate that into dollars. So, I'm like having a really hard time with my skill set and and I heard you mention you're going to put the bot out and make the call. I can't make an investment right now because I'm in the middle of a uh falling off a balcony and and a lawsuit and all that with the construction company.
>> Yeah, but the bots the bot's free, Sarah. Like like just DM.
>> No, I just didn't know if I could still schedule a call.
>> I didn't know if I could but you said schedule a call and I don't want to waste any >> if you want. I mean, just just check in with us. Don't worry about it. Um >> but my my question today >> was are the the question are there questions or frameworks that you have set up the to create the expectations um to make a more solid understanding when you have calls with your potential like uh people you work with and then also not only to handle objections but how do you know who's a good fit by those questions and how do you determine when they're not a good fit?
>> That's a great question. So, first of all, like people can always surprise you, all right? But again, if someone is investing five or 10 or 15k to work with you, it usually means that they kind of sort of have their [ __ ] together. Do you know what I mean? Like their basic life structures are kind of in, you know, they're all right. They're doing okay.
They're not, you know what I mean?
They're they're not in like dire financial straits or anything like that.
So, that helps. And then and then we tell our our um our our enrollment coaches what to look for. the is the person a legit expert? Can they solve a major life or business challenge? Are they coachable? Are they decisive? Are they resourceful? And we those are the things that we're looking for. If we're doing an enrollment call with someone and they're like just totally not coachable, you know, we're not into that. You know, if they can't make a decision, um our whole our whole process is is designed to help them make the right decision. And that right decision might be like, hey, this is not the right time. And that's cool. But we want them to make a decision because in the course of building a business, you're gonna have to make a thousand little decisions. You know what I mean? And if it's like, "Oh, well, I can't, you know, I I I I I don't know if I should charge $4,000 for my program or $5,000 for my program. I got to call my pet psychic and I'll get back to you next Thursday."
It's like, no, you got to just make a decision. You know what I mean? So, like, we got we gota we got to look for those people that are decisive. But part of part of what's cool about the bot that I gave you guys is that's part of it. It's going to ask you like what are the three traits of the clients you really want to work with and what are the three traits of the clients you never want to work with and it'll full statement.
>> Yeah. because this this has been a a huge challenge and I had a I I um >> I don't know if you've heard of Richmond Den. uh he worked he's created the tiny challenge and so I I took a free tiny challenge thing with him and we're I'm doing his boot camp later this week and I'm in Russell Brun's like funnel building this week and Bonnie did a training on uh funnel building in the offer that she gave around um Black Friday and and so I I absorb knowledge and I really want but I don't know who I'm talking to and so but I noticed like when I talked to one of Richmond's he was like I want to put you on a call with one of my coaches and I jumped on a call and she's like you're 3 ft from gold. Like I'm so close and I'm almost there at what I'm going to do as soon as I can figure it out. I know. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt in every fiber of my being, I'm going to be able to help so many people. And at the end of the day, I want to help people, but I also have to make money to be able to sustain helping people. So, I I really just want to get there. So, thank you for all of your information today. I took a lot of notes, and I really appreciate Bonnie for letting you be on here. Also, if you have time to maybe um put uh like the five books that you recommend for like sales marketing and whatnot. I had typed it in the chat earlier. I don't know if you can send that to Bonnie later that you recommend because I'm always I always love watching people's zoom backgrounds when they have all their books behind them.
But I was just wondering for sales and marketing and not persuasion because that sounds dirty, but like you know really connection through sales and marketing for because it's again the the language that you use to let people know that you know more about their problem than they do. So it's not persuading them on something they don't need. It doesn't mean it's icky. It just means you know how to speak to them in a way their brain works. and the subconscious.
>> Yeah. And they have to and they have to get it. I mean, if I have if I have the if I have the cure for cancer, I got to explain to you what it is and why it works in in a way that you you know, in a way that you understand, you know. So, yeah, for sure. I'll uh I'll I'll uh >> Thank you.
>> I'll do that.
>> Thank you. Appreciate you.
>> Sure. Sure. Kevin, >> hey, thanks so much for uh just being so generous with your time and your um advice and expertise. So, I had a similar question to uh to Cassandra's. I am a a perinatal and pediatric chiropractor alongside with my wife. And so I was a little bit of a different focus and that I'm not trying to do like um you know online consulting and that sort of stuff, but I was just curious if you had any um advice to Gleam for that sort of brick and mortise mortar service-based demographic. I really got a lot out of what you were talking about of like describing the outcome and not the the method or the the you know just describing the services and that sort of thing. Um but I just wanted to see if you had any other insights you could uh share with that.
So, first of all, just to challenge your thinking a little bit, Kevin, and maybe this doesn't make sense for you. We've had a lot of people go through the program who are chiropractors, who are acupuncturists, who who do that kind of work where you really got to like put your hands on people. And and the question we always ask them is, look, let's say you had to solve this problem, but you couldn't put your hands on them.
What would you do? And what we find is that when you kind of just expand your thinking that way, there's exercises people can do. there's a protocol people can do that's going to get them like maybe 70 or 80% of the way there. And I was like, "Okay, great." So, like for example, let's say it's an acupuncture thing. There's like herbology, there's acupressure, there's, you know, there's all kinds of different stuff you can do.
And then what what our clients do is that's the stuff they put into their online program. And when people buy the online program, they bundle that with a ticket to an in-person event that you do like two, three times a year. And that's when you go and actually get to do like the hands-on work. So there is a way to make it work in an online program, but you just kind of like hybridize it a little bit. Does that make sense, Kevin?
>> Wow. I mean that that was yeah beyond exceptional what I was even expecting.
Um I was just even just asking the question from the speaking to the the current brick and mortar like what I could implement now.
But that was that was brilliant in and of itself. So, that would be the biggest piece of advice that I could give you because that creates a whole separate income stream that's now disconnected from your time. Um, if you just want to get more bodies in the office, like it, you know, local advertising on Facebook is easy. You just run an ad on Facebook, attach it to an outcome, call out a specific problem, and give people a reason to to to come in the door. Um, so that's really not that hard. And then just watch your budget and, you know, calibrate it according to what like a what a new customer is is is worth to you. Um, but yeah, man. I I I think I think having having a a high ticket online coaching program is something every expert should have. Even if you continue to run your brick-andmortar, even if you continue, you know, that even if that's not your main thing, I mean, man, enrolling two, three people a month into a program like that would be life-changing for, you know, pretty much everybody. So, >> my jaw is wide open. Thank you so much, man. That was super cool.
>> You got it, Natalie.
>> Hi. Well, wow. Thank you. Thank you both like Bonnie for organizing this. You're amazing, Bonnie. I adore you. And Russ, wow. Like so many ahas and nuggets. So, I'm just super grateful that I get to be here with the both of you and and everyone present. Um, so I have a couple questions. Um, the first one is hopeully fast. So, what I do is I help spiritual women in business who are invisible online. not because they lack credibility, but because something is mistransating between who they are and how they're actually being received. And I help them close that gap through a process called soul styling so that their presence finally matches their inner light. So essentially, I help them align their inner essence with their outer appearance. Okay? So that there's no misalignment.
>> And one of the things that they want is visibility, right? They want to be more visible so that they can attract more clients. But at the same time they have this for a lot of women being visible has meant in the past being hurt or >> Yeah.
>> Right. There's like PTSD or something around visibility that feels really unsafe.
>> And so I don't know how like because if I promise more visibility like they might think that they want it but then their body or their being their nervous system is like that doesn't feel safe. Does that make sense?
>> Yeah totally.
>> So I wonder if you have any insight about that.
>> Yeah. So, first of all, that's not everybody, right? Like, there's plenty of women that invest in programs to increase their visibility, build their Instagram following, build their social media following, you know, get more views on their content or whatever. And even if that's like a subconscious fear that they have, you can still deal with that in the in in the course of your program. So, that is going to filter some women out that that fear is top of mind for. But I bet for a lot of people it it like so look, one of the one of the things we have in our highest level mastermind is we call it the $100,000 month meltdown. Okay? So like I' I'm like my goal is to get people to 100k a month minimum or whatever. And it's like great, we do it. And I'm once we get there, I'm like great, we're home free.
Almost every single client we've ever worked with has freaked out when they got to like 100k a month. And it's not always that exact amount. Sometimes it's 200k. We all have this like internal thermometer of what constitutes like an uncomfortable amount of money. And when people hit it, I as the coach, I'm like, "Yeah, you're crushing it." And then they freak out and I'm like, "Oh god, what do we do?" And then we have to like, >> you know, deal with all that stuff that like comes up. And it's like, "Okay, fine." So now we just anticipate it, you know, like, "Hey, where do you think Bonnie's like meltdown melting point is?" And then, you know, she's getting close to it. How can we be ready? You know, I mean, literally, this is conversations we have on my coaching team. So, um, you know, for you, I I don't think that you need to, you know, you can you can work the safety piece in as an angle in your front-end positioning, but I think it's more about once you get those people to invest in that kind of visibility, managing that fear that comes up for them on the back.
And another thing you could do, Natalie, is you can actually use that if you wanted to, as a reframe. So, like um you know, remember how I said like you're going to describe their problems better than they can and then you're going to you're going to reframe them as just being symptoms of a bigger problem they're not even aware of.
>> You know, it's like no one's watching your no one's watching your videos. Are are you making, you know, recording videos no one watches? Are you are you writing posts that no one reads no matter what you do? Um you know, are you posting to Instagram every day and doing what they tell you to do and your follower count's not growing and you're not getting the clients, you're not making the money, you have no idea why.
Well, guess what? None of those things are the real problem. The real problem is that there's something in your subconscious that feels safer when you're invisible.
>> And unless you deal with that, all the content marketing you do is going to fall flat because there's something in your subconscious that's telling you no, don't do this.
>> And you cannot, and if you don't hear anything else in this webinar, I want you to hear this. You cannot build a brand when you are at war with yourself every step of the way. So until you learn to create content from that place of safety, >> everything you do is going to fall flat.
But once you know how to do that, the floodgates are going to open and you're going to actually be able to show up as your authentic self because you're finally going to feel safe doing it.
>> What?
So good.
>> You know what I mean?
>> So now Natalie is >> I have to but you see I have to hire you now. I can't hire the 50 billion other Instagram coaches that aren't talking about this, >> right?
>> Because I accept that's the real problem. It's not that I don't understand the freaking algorithm.
That's not what it is. It's that I'm at war with myself. And if if if you unless I resolve that conflict, you know, and by the way, this is how I feel about making content. I [ __ ] hate making content. So, I I get like I'm talking about myself here. It's not just like a woman thing. I hate doing that. But whatever. like like I have to hire you because you're gonna help me resolve that cognitive dissonance that's that's the real cause behind this. Does that make sense?
>> Right. And I and I'm going to do more than that because there's also the disconnect of like the visible like if they're wearing the wrong colors or like they're showing up where they're not actually aligned with their light then the the the transmission is distorted.
So it's like getting the inner and the outer aligned and coher.
>> So that's where you that's where you take it from there as you proceed into the rest of the webinar. You say, "Look, the reason that you feel unsafe is that you're not in alignment with your true self."
>> Right?
>> And then you describe the difference.
And then you show them a little bit about how to get in line with their true self. And then you show them where to where to how to reach out to you to work together if they want to fix that problem.
>> Wow. Oh my gosh. Okay. Thank you so much. Like that was just >> Yeah.
>> And we are getting the replay. Yes, Bony. Because >> Yeah, you are. You are.
>> I just gave you like half your webinar.
So yeah, get the replay now.
>> Quick. Oh, sorry.
>> No, no, go on, Natalie.
>> There's just and the the next one is around like you said um the you know the webinar to a sales call, >> right? Like that that's how we enroll into our program. What if we don't want to do sales calls? Like do could we make an offer to the pro like could we make the offer on the webinar? Maybe the webinar is a little longer. We could just sell it right.
>> Yeah. Look, nobody like I now like nobody wants to do sales calls. Okay.
So, what I get like like what I what I suggest is because look, >> when you're talking about selling something directly on a webinar to a cold audience that's never heard of you, >> that's tricky to do.
>> And most of the people that are doing that, like I'm like I'm I'm not talking about selling it to your warm audience.
That's a different that's a different ballgame. They know you, they like you, they trust you, you make an offer, you know, >> but like I'm talking about like people click our ads and then enroll into clients on demand 24 hours later >> and they've never heard of me before they clicked on the ads. That's what we want our funnel to do is to convert people, right?
>> So when you pitch it on the webinar, you usually need like a two to three hour webinar to sell something at a $2,000 price point. and your cost to acquire at that price point is usually going to be about $1,950.
>> So now like you're just breaking even on that $2,000 program and then you're trying to sell them whatever the super high ticket thing is on the back end. So my whole philosophy is like if that's the thing they really need, let's just sell them that right out of the gate.
>> Now if you need to get them on a call in order to do that, that's fine. Usually what we tell our clients is just do the calls yourself for like a few months. Do you know what I mean? And then that way you get to learn what your audience really responds to. You get to build that skill. You get to build that muscle. And then you can go and hire a salesperson. And now you've got credibility with them, right? Because if I've never sold this thing before and I hire some random salesperson and they're having problems, what are they going to say? They're not going to say, "I suck as a salesperson." They're going to say, "Oh, these aren't the right people, or this offer is terrible," or whatever.
Right? So you got to be able to say, "Look, man, I did a 100 sales calls. I closed 30 people. You can do this." You know what I mean? And now you have the authority to to to do that, right?
>> Okay. Okay.
>> It's the same thing with the ads. Like I don't want to run my own Facebook ads.
Like face running Facebook ads sucks.
>> But I had to do it myself for a few months and get pretty good at it and then I could hire somebody. And I I tried it the other way around. I hired like the when I was first starting out, hired the best Facebook people in the business. And one by one they crashed and burned. It was like four or five of them back toback. And eventually I was like, "Hey, maybe it's me." You know what I mean? So then I learned how to do it myself >> and then the next person I hired crushed it and she was with me for like 10 years >> because now I understood what was happening.
>> Okay. Okay. Great feedback. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
>> You got it.
>> I wanted to jump in here really quick.
Um guys, Russ has been with us and he's been doing this incredible Q&A and just really pouring his heart and his soul into you. And one thing I know feels so good as a speaker. you guys are going to be following him on Instagram to get your um DMing him the word Bonnie to get the incredible gift that he's offered to us. And one thing that I just know that feels so good as a speaker when you're pouring in like this is take a screenshot of this, tag him on Instagram, like say one thing that you got out of this. Like it takes literally two seconds, but it means so much. And and I will say this, like it builds relationships, you know, like Russ and I have been interacting for actually probably 10 years just casually, you know, and it's like like little nuggets like that. Just start a relationship, you know, and and maybe someday it ends up in something like this, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you. That's so sweet.
>> Yeah, of course. Of course. Okay.
Uh, Isis, Isis, are you there?
>> Yes. It just took me a second to turn on the mic. First of all, thank you. Thank you so much. This is an incredible gift.
I mean, both of you. Wow.
>> Um, one thing that came up for me as I was listening is that yes, outcome, outcome, outcome. But do you think it's possible to sell high ticket coaching to people uh for outcomes that are different than business or relationship stuff? Because I've been doing this for >> those are just like those are just like my go-to examples. Um like I said, Dr. Beck, Dr. Becky's program, she teaches dyslexic kids learn to read. Um we've had a million people do a million different health outcomes. Um, we had a guy, we had a guy who was a functional medicine doctor who wanted to help people overcome IBS, the irritable bowel syndrome. So, I had to make like an irritable bowel syndrome webinar. That was fun. Um, and you know, like, so what what what outcome are you thinking, Isis?
>> Well, I mean, I've been doing life coaching and so when I see people really bloom, I see them bloom in kind of every area of their life. So yes, with relationships, but also just kind of in in terms of their self-image, their capacity for joy, pleasure.
>> Yeah.
>> Um just how they show up in their world.
>> So for every program, there's always going to be a ripple effect. I remember like the first live event I ever did, one of my clients came up to me and he said, "Hey Russ, you saved my marriage."
And I was like, "What? This isn't a marriage coaching program. What are you talking about?" And he was like, "Well, we used to fight about money all the time and now we don't because I have it." And I was like, "Oh, okay, cool."
So like there's always going to be a ripple effect, right? But every good sellable program Isis really needs to be built around one main outcome.
>> You you can't it's so hard and this is this is the problem that every life coach has is you got to kind of dial in, right? Like you know you you can't run an offer on Facebook that's like, "Hey, I'm going to make everything in your life better. Click here." Like it's like what? People just don't respond to them.
So like, so for example, like some of the stuff our life coaches have done is like um one of our clients, Kate Buyers, who absolutely crushed it, >> did an an offer for women in corporate >> to help them overcome burnout. And not just women in corporate, moms in corporate.
>> So they've got that tension. You know, when I'm with my kids, I feel like I'm neglecting my job. And then when I'm at my job, I'm guilty that I'm not with my kids. And how do I fix that? That was an amazing program. So, it's just about kind of like searching your client list, Isis, and asking yourself like, why do these people come to you? Like, what's the initial problem that they have or the initial outcome that they want when they first hire you? And yeah, you fix all this other stuff in their life because you're good at what you do, but what's that thing that gets them in the door? And that's where I usually start kind of probing with our life coaches.
And if you look at your client base, you might find there's like a pattern there.
Well, you know, hey Russ, actually like 80% of my clients are women in their in their late 40s who just went through a divorce and they're trying to put the pieces back together. Okay, that's a pretty big clue, you know.
>> Yeah. So, it sounds like getting more specific with the target audience as opposed to, you know, like, okay, yes, I'm going to help you with burnout, but not just in life, in all of these aspects, but like I'm going to help this specific target market with burnout and a market that I know can pay for high ticket coaching. Is is that what you're saying?
>> Yeah, it's I help this group of people, you know, solve this so that this and by the way, that tool that I'm giving you guys will take you through that process of getting that clarity. It knows the difference between, yeah, this is a really good offer and this is a vague offer. It'll give you really direct feedback, but in like a nice way and just coach you through the process of kind of figuring out what that is.
>> Okay. Amazing. And so, would you do that just for an offer or would you do that for the business? So for example, I work with women who are entrepreneurs generally speaking in their 40s who are going through this kind of revolution of self, you know, where they they want to feel connected to their passion, their purpose, their pleasure. Again, they feel like they've been performing their life. So can I say that as as a kind of general statement or >> like we're getting there? Like we're getting there. You know what I mean?
Like that's closer than what you said before. So now like we'll just dial that in a little bit more. Like what kind of business are we talking about? what is it that makes them feel this way? You know, um >> okay, >> sometimes with offers, like look, if I'm gonna help you make an extra million dollars in your business, that's really easy to say. But for a lot of offers, it's about being like emotionally specific.
>> Do you know what I mean? Like we've had a lot of spiritual coaches come through our program, and they're not going to run a headline like, you know, the five-step game plan to get 27% closer to Jesus without having to go to church.
You know what I mean? Like, you just don't you don't think about it that way.
Like, it's it's it's it's So, we try to we try to capture like what they're feeling and what they're going through emotionally and the situation in their life and and again, as long as we can describe their problem better than they can, they're going to go, "Yes, Isis, that's exactly how I feel. I have to work with you to fix this."
>> Okay. I I'm curious to use the tool and thank you so much for that because it can sound really kind of trit sometimes being like I'm going to take you from feeling burnt out and you know joyless to like this place of passionate aliveness and it just sounds like you know >> that's right and and again like a guys like look this is like >> the 90% of our job in the first week or so of the program is just getting you guys really clear on this where it's it's this is the exact outcome I saw for the exact person and and putting that stake in the ground and the The reason we have to do this guys is because everything is downstream from that, right? If you're if the outcome you if the outcome that you provide is a little vague and a little fuzzy, all the marketing is going to be fuzzy too and it's not going to do well. It's got to be super sharp, super specific, and then all the marketing will be too, and it will cut like a knife and reach the exact people that you want.
>> Awesome. Well, thank you.
>> You got it.
Is it?
>> Is that an Irish name?
>> It's Siobhan. It's Scottish. Can you see me? All right, >> Siobhan.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Ah, it's amazing to be here live.
Normally, my time zone means that I'm asleep during these things. So, thank you so much both of you for for putting this on. Um, my question is this. I I show people why they keep repeating the same money patterns. And I created my doorway through money because I knew everybody wanted more money. It it's like if you ask anybody what would improve their life, it seems to always be more money.
But the actuality is once they go through the pray program which is self-led they recognize that there are so many other elements of their life that transform as a result very positively because what I'm actually talking to is the subconscious beliefs formed in childhood the identity we form and the way the brain uses the reticular activating system to reinforce that identity through adulthood.
My question is, I have a low ticket offer and even listening to some of your people's low ticket offers, mine's like like like a crumb in comparison. So, it's 77 New Zealand dollars, which is about 44 US. I have one one program and what I'm finding is that some people who are clearly struggling significantly then reach out to me to maintain contact and friendship and actually get lots and lots of free advice which I'm more than happy to give.
I want this information to be available to everybody. I wrote a pocketbook for young people. I just was invited to speak at a local spiritual church which I did. My desire is to make this accessible and I'm worried that by creating and I don't even see how but in creating a higher ticket offer I'm leaving people out of the loop. I'm not, you know, I I can't reach as many people. And that is my greatest desire is to >> I didn't discover any of this until I'd left my second marriage and looked at my own life to go, why the hell has this unfolded the way it has. Now I have a four-year-old and a seven-year-old.
There is no way in hell I'm going to let this be their reality. And that's when I fell down the rabbit hole and started learning this. But I didn't learn it till I was in my mid-4s. I want people to have this awareness earlier on and at the same time >> I'm worried that a higher price point will eliminate a vast majority of people who actually deserve to have this information.
>> So just because you're offering Yeah, sure. Just because you're offering transformation doesn't mean you can you you don't offer information, right? Like I'm offering information now. You know what I mean? I'm not working with you guys for eight weeks to build these programs. I'm showing you like the principles that actually make this work.
That's what I do in my YouTube videos.
You know, I got a book coming out that's going to talk about some of this stuff.
Um, >> so you can always create information and you can always like sell information, but at the same time, there's going to be people that want to go deeper with you. Okay? So, like when I was like 28, I read the 4H hour work week and that book changed my goddamn life. Like it literally >> wish my son would read it. the trajectory of my existence where if I hadn't read that book, literally I would still be pouring drinks probably or I'd be a movie star, but either way, I wouldn't be doing this. Um, so that book changed the trajectory of my life. Now, look, >> could I have gotten where I wanted to go a lot faster if Tim Ferrris had like a mentoring program that I could have joined? Yeah, absolutely. And he didn't.
So, I would just say like like do both.
Do you know what I mean? like like have your information that you're putting out there. Like that's your content. That's the introduction into your world. That's the principles that make it work.
>> But again, it's a I mean, what percentage of people read the 4-hour work week and built a $100 million company? Honestly, I'm probably the only one. So, it's like, you know what I mean? Like like that never happens. So, so you know, offer them a deeper and more transformational level and charge accordingly, right?
>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So you don't leave anybody out, but it's like not everybody wants to go that deep.
>> Yeah. And I think there's a there's clearly a level of my own patterning and fear that I need to overcome as well um with regards to delivering on that. Even though every conversation I have, people are like, "Wow, there's still those internal insecurities, you know, that I still have to obviously overcome." So, okay. Well, one time I was on a one one time I was on a Zoom call and there was this really amazing Scottish woman there and she helped people fix their reticular activating system. You should you should probably talk to her about how to do that.
>> Thank you. Please feel free to throw my name around.
>> You got it.
>> Thanks, Russell.
>> You got it.
All right. I don't see any other hands up. Bonnie, >> that was great. Oh, everyone loved it. I don't know if you saw the chat blowing up, but there are so many people that were just like, "Wow, this is amazing.
Incredible. Thank you. This is so high value." Um, yeah, if you guys want to throw some hearts into the chat, that's amazing. My, um, so takeaways. Um, DM Russell Bonnie on Instagram. What's the call link if they want to book a call with your team?
>> I'll put it back in the chat, guys. um to it's russ rafrafino on Instagram and then um it's uh clients deemand.comward slashapply to book a call with the team.
>> Okay, amazing. And then if you want to um I'm sure Russ would appreciate just some love like a little takeaway and if you want to tag me too. I like seeing it so I can celebrate and be like I love my people. They were so good.
Um yeah, that was incredible. Thank you so much, Russ. Have a great rest of your night.
>> You got it. Yeah, you guys are awesome.
Like look, all of you guys have such incredible gifts to give to the world and such an amazing impact to make. And I would just say like don't, you know, don't don't like hide your light. Like put yourself out there. I know it's scary. You know, charge a premium price.
Charge what you're worth. Work with the people that you want to work with. And just remember, you guys can design your business just the way you want it. I really haven't run into hardly any tradeoffs as I've I've built this thing.
Um, you know, you can set it up so you have the income you want, the freedom you want, and you make the impact that you want. Um, just don't be afraid. You know, put yourself out there, guys.
>> Absolutely incredible. Thank you so much. That was great.
>> You got it. Awesome.
>> Bye. Bye, everyone.
>> All right, you guys.
>> Thanks again, you guys. Bonnie, much love to you. Always putting the best things together.
Thanks again. You the best. Really?
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