"West Africans Deserve Reparations Too". 'Black British' Is Not An Identity. Live Discussion Vol.7.3

Added: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]Ghana has a right to claim for reparations for those families. For those people who have stolen from that >> the people who have had their members stolen from them.

[00:00:13]Are there people are there people in Ghana right now that that have that that that oral history that they talk about our family was taken from us and and your great great great grandpa. Is that a thing?

[00:00:26]>> I don't know. I'm not doing that research.

[00:00:28]>> You don't know. So if you don't know, what is the point of this? This >> that's that's the same way of me asking you, do you know which family member of yours was on the slave ship?

[00:00:38]>> What I know that what I know what I know is that I'm Caribbean heritage as a result of history. What I know is that my DNA and my ancestry is mixed up because of what happened. That's what I know.

[00:00:51]>> That's what I know.

[00:00:52]>> Right.

[00:00:53]>> Right. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

[00:00:55]>> Well Well, okay. So, let me So, how do you know you're not one of the dark-kinned people of a lineage from people who were already on the island?

[00:01:04]>> I'm Well, I'm not going to be full tyino, am I?

[00:01:08]>> Well, there were there were black people across the whole world.

[00:01:10]>> I know what the Tyenos are, but I have myth ancestry. I'm not full Tyino.

[00:01:16]>> But how do you know that? You're literally down your your your lineage traces.

[00:01:21]>> I know. I know that cuz of I know that because of my family. I know that because of my grandparents. I know that because of my great-grandparents. I know about their ethnicities and the different races that mixed into my family. I I'm not going to be pure Tyino. It's not a thing. Editing Coley here. I forgot to mention this because I was literally takenback by his extreme levels of deflection. But I'd like to take a moment to show reverence to the Tyino people, the indigenous people of Jamaica who are quite literally on our coat of arms and highlight the impact that slavery had on those Tyeno people.

[00:02:02]The Tyeno people of Jamaica named by them originally as Zamea or I've heard some say Za were enslaved by the Spanish first. Later, the Spanish brought African people as slaves to Jamaica, who were then enslaved alongside the Tyenos, whose numbers at the time were declining due to the brutality of their enslavement. Guys, it's only when the British were fighting against the Spanish in an attempt to take over the island that approximately 1,500 Tyino and African slaves escaped. And they were later referred to as the maroons, which derives from the Spanish word simon, meaning untamed. and wildly. And I say all of this to say that the Tyenos of Jamaica suffered immensely as well. So I don't know what the hell his reference to the Tyino people in my ancestry is supposed to imply. I have no clue.

[00:02:59]>> So the same way people from those tribe are having that family lineage from people who were taken from that tribe.

[00:03:06]It's not it's not like you you're applying a general description to yourself and they can apply because those numbers were taken from those tribes >> cuz you know I'm going to be here for time. Let's be honest. Uh thank you Kandaki. Uh Chop mix I can't see the rest of your name. Um but could you let everyone know your ethnic background and where you're based and then yeah go ahead.

[00:03:28]>> Okay. Um sorry I got a bit of a cold. I am Jamaican born in the UK uh in London.

[00:03:36]Um I've been on I came on your your panel a couple weeks ago actually. Um and obviously talking about the same subject listening to Antoine this evening.

[00:03:46]>> Mhm.

[00:03:46]>> Um the issue that I have and again a you know I can see you're trying your best with him and trying to make my seek clarity but okay by the way guys. So >> yeah I've listened to him the whole time. So that's true. Um Antoine I feel like your issue ain't with this panel.

[00:04:04]It's actually with the British um history museum and their basement department where they've got all the artifacts that you're after. They're the ones that you have the problem with. I don't think you should be looking at this subject um in terms of reparations at all. Like it just shouldn't be part of the subject now at all. But take it up with the British History Museum.

[00:04:23]They've got a lot of a lot of people's artifacts hidden in their basement department and that's who you need to be contacting to get your um uh what was I don't be disrespectful. you said the beheaded um king and things like this. I genuinely believe there's a lot of artifacts that people are do back, but you can't mix and blend that with what we've been through. Um and when you minimalize it, which you have done, and I don't think you mean to, but you do keep minimalizing the fact that humans over beheaded ancestor. Um you know, I mean, you're you're prioritizing that still. And every time A for tries to explain and give examples, you still go back to that same narrative that and that we're not getting it. We're not getting it and >> it's unfortunate that >> it's rather un it's rather unfortunate that >> the understanding you are getting from my I think that's understanding a lot of people are getting from my submission because >> before I start I gave the premise that when I was listening to the conversations that the panel was having >> I noticed that when we talk about reparation because when we just everybody would say reparation reparation and they ignore Africa. And I was saying that no, if you are talking about reparation during for the per for the transatlantic slave period, there are things that need to be brought to Africa. But when you are talking about reparation within the context of the slaves, Africa has no share. You can Africa cannot what are you going to claim?

[00:05:59]>> Do you feel Antoine? Do you feel that when people say the transatlantic slave trade and and say was it a crime against humanity, do you think that they're referring to the other stuff you're talking about or the slaves being sold?

[00:06:16]So if you look at the resolution on the grievous crime against humanity one one it included the slaves that were sold, brutalized, raped. It also includes the cultures that were destroyed, the relics that were sold because when you that were stolen because when you are talking about the African history or you're talking about the African context, it include the cultures that were distressed. So if you really carefully look at that re resolution, it also includes the cultures. So that's why I'm saying >> I think as I said I think sorry to cut you but I feel like as I said before it's it's a natural history museum issue. You know in London I don't know where you're based but in the in the in in the city of London there's a massive um museum and it has those artifacts.

[00:07:10]You know there's many countries that are trying to seek that reparation as you plot it cuz that seems to be the terminology you want to use. So I'm going to run with it. Okay. Reparations for that. That's a whole separate issue though. Um I don't think actually it falls in context with with the slave um the Atlantic slave trade. You need to completely you keep going back in some way. You keep blending it with that and you can't put human life on artifacts regardless of how special they are no matter how much draped in gold or diamonds and rubies. You know, let me say another thing. You see um in your part of the world in in um in Ghana, you've got the um what is it? this this this door of no return thing that people are now going over to and and and and wailing and hollering. You can't tell me that your people >> didn't know that that door existed. They were people must have been screaming, hollering, hooting and crying. Those people that you refer to that also, you know, oh, they were they were they were against it, this that and the other.

[00:08:08]Those people, as Afari said, were were willingly involved to some degree. So no matter how much you want to know, nicely nicely up, it it can't be because the they were all part of it. These places existed. They were real places. The point of no return is a real place. They they had them under some of them they had underneath um was it like cemented um tiled up um things for months, like literally like a foot foot tall where they couldn't even um stand up straight.

[00:08:34]They were bent they were bent down crying in their own feces, their own urine. And you're talking to me about artifacts. Do you see why I'm getting upset?

[00:08:42]>> No. When I think about the people that went through sores probably never even made it onto the boats because of how sore and declined and everything malnourished, emaciated >> and then you talked to me about artifacts. That's why it has to be a separate subject.

[00:08:56]>> No, it can get very respond to you about that.

[00:09:01]>> Just a second for just a second. Guys, >> this needs to be at 100,000 likes.

[00:09:07]That's just what it needs to be. Needs to be at 100,000 likes. Okay, it's free to tap this screen and it needs to be at 100 shares cuz watch this. I'm going to be here for a good number of hours after this and I'll probably get one toilet break. It's free to tap up the screen.

[00:09:25]It's free to share. Okay. So, all I ask is for what I do to be reciprocated.

[00:09:32]That's it. It's nothing long. If I don't see it being tapped up, then I have to wait and then we waiting for time before the next person can speak long. It's It's nothing mad. 100,000. Yeah. And 100 shares. That's it.

[00:09:48]Uh go ahead. You can um you can respond.

[00:09:52]I I just want to um address that as well like because of the Mina Castle and because Antoine brought it up uh earlier um about the fantasies about that area.

[00:10:05]So going reading about that as well.

[00:10:07]Yes, there were people in the area that did not want um it uh the castles built there. You you're absolutely right. Um however the chiefs did and let's be honest they they established that there and when the people the Portuguese the Danes the Swiss came into those areas of Elmina they intermingled with the people of that area as well that's why you have um in fancy that um different surnames like that are not indigenous to Ghana or to Africa shall I say so all I want to say is this like we have to acknowledge history um acknowledging history is the best way we can go towards healing um I do want to as well as us acknowledging um let's quote and unquote the bad stuff I want to acknowledge the good stuff because I do believe Africans and Caribbeans are working together um I don't know if you guys have uh researched about this I spoke about this in another group but um guard uh a couple Ghanaians uh got a couple 50 Ghanaians or so uh servicemen went to Jamaica after the um earthquake that went the hurricane that went on and helped the people over there.

[00:11:27]>> So those >> there are some Rwanda soldiers who who also joined.

[00:11:33]>> Yeah. So I feel like when we're talking about those things those are things are that are good things to help bridge the gap. However, we should never overstep our mark on either side and on this time we have overstepped our mark. It seems from the diaspora view because if uh Anto you know this if you know everybody is saying we don't want this you understand we don't want you to do it then what is the best thing and you know us as Ghanaians we don't like problems in it. So instead of us indulging in it, sometimes it's okay to say, "Hey, my bad, Chal, let's just go back and let the Caribbeans lead." There's nothing wrong with supporting. And when they >> That's what makes it sinister, though.

[00:12:18]>> That's what's that's what's making this whole thing feel so weird and disturbing.

[00:12:24]>> We don't know what the [ __ ] motive is. You know, someone said to me last week before I bring in um before I bring in I'll let Trump finish her point and then Ancient Goddess. Someone said to me on the on the last week's live uh cuz I said Ghana haven't formally apologized yet. They they want everyone else Europe, the United Nations, all of these nations to apologize cuz that would be a part of the obviously reparations apologize for the transatlantic slave share but they themselves haven't apologized. And then the person was like, "No, they did." I said, "No, they didn't." Then the person said, "No."

[00:12:59]Well, um the Isanti king did the the the the Asanti tribe were a huge um they were huge participants in the transatlantic slave trade and the king of that tribe apologized recently. He went to um which Caribbean islands I can't remember. Did it say? Anyway, this is what they said to me. This was last week. I said I said h yourself, Kaki.

[00:13:22]Have a good sleep. All right. I'll see you tomorrow. Um cuz I'll be here. You know that. Um they were like, "No, he he apologized and he apologized for the part that his tribe played in the transatlantic slave trade." I said, "Okay, let me look this up because maybe I've missed this."

[00:13:42]>> He did not apologize. He did not apologize. I think >> exactly.

[00:13:46]But guess what? Guess what? um Antoine that the person that said this was Garnan and last week he said that this man apologized. So then when I told him no he didn't cuz I looked it up then he said no I'll find I'll find a proof that it was an apology and I'll send it to you. He hasn't sent me anything. Now the thing is this is what the king of that tribe said. Okay what he said this is um the news day article. Okay. Um they they quote him.

[00:14:18]I'll tell you where he's being quoted.

[00:14:19]Okay. So he says um so to the rest of the world Tutu said Africa is seen as either a land of colonialism where European servants of God took a primitive people out of the dark ages into the light of civilization or simply as a continent where slaves were sold for the service of the rest of the new world. By the narrative given today, he said, nobody would be faulted into believing slavery and colonialism was simply the Africa phenomena.

[00:14:49]Nothing could be further than the truth.

[00:14:52]Further from the truth, sorry. He said, throughout history and all over the world, as civilizations, kingdoms, and empires rose and fell, conflict and conquest led to systems of subjugation and enslavement. Hold on, let me get you guys on mute. Right. So he starts by saying basically it wasn't just Africans, it was Europe and and this is just a normal part of history, the slave trade. Okay, it wasn't unique to us.

[00:15:14]This is essentially what he says. Okay, this is the king of a tribe in Ghana that played a huge role in the transatlantic slave trade. Okay, he then says, this is what he says. He says, wars of conquest led to colonialism.

[00:15:28]Wars also started another phenomenon that has been with us since antiquity.

[00:15:33]Soldiers captured in battle were usually held or sold into slavery. These are his words, okay? And so he's reiterating that slavery was not an Africanonly condition. He points out that in one way or another, there isn't a single state in the world that hasn't experienced some form of subjugation of its people.

[00:15:50]And then he says, quote, England was a colony of the Roman Empire for four centuries. All countries of Europe, Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, and the Vikings of Scandinavia have taken turns in subjugating each other. The US had to go to full-blown war to free themselves from colonialism, he said.

[00:16:09]So, right now, what we're hearing so far is him saying, "Well, you weren't just us." Okay, this is the king of the tribe. Okay. Then he says, "The point quote the point I make is to dismiss notions in our minds that the African people were fated to be subjugated and enslaved." So then he goes on to say, "And yet when emancipation came, it was the perpetrators." This is me quoting him, "And yet when emancipation came, it was the perpetrators who were compensated and not us, the victims.

[00:16:45]That's what he said. Not only was no possibility of support available, but crucially no consideration was given to the consequence of centuries of trauma and suffering. If you are involved in the struggle to shape the face of post emancipation neglect to overcome poverty and improve the living standards of our people, it remains my view that history shines a light on the path of a path to global peace. That's what he said.

[00:17:12]Called himself a victim. He called his tribe victims.

[00:17:17]>> His tribe participated. THEY WERE A HUGE PART of the transatlantic slave trade, right? They played a crucial role. And he called himself a victim.

[00:17:27]Not not not um what did he say? And yet when emancipation came, it was the perpetrators who were compensated, which is true. And not us, the victims. Those are his words. and yet someone comes on last week and tells me he apologized but this is what he said. He called himself a victim. Where's the apology? So now I have to look and say so so Ghana essentially as a whole if I couple this up with this motion that's been put to um the UN and so on and so forth.

[00:17:58]There's this this thing of we are victims too. We're victims of the transatlantic slave trade. We were victimized. It wasn't our fault. I keep hearing the same thing and it feels very sinister.

[00:18:11]>> So, um to the best um I've not seen but what I have heard is that it's so far it's only Benin that has apologized for um its contribution to the slave trade.

[00:18:28]>> Benin.

[00:18:28]>> Wow.

[00:18:29]>> Yes. So, yes, so far >> it's been in and it's not recent. I think it's about within the last 5 years or so. You you you can check so far. I'm not aware of any other West African country that has been able to do that.

[00:18:42]And then >> yeah and then with the Ashanti when we were when we were talking about when someone said he has apology I thought he was going to refer to he went to one of the Caribbean islands recently and he delivered a speech and someone asked him that um what has he got to say about um the the Ashanti kings who and the some of the Ghanaian chiefs who participated in the slave trade and his comment which for me I wasn't even excited about was that if you look at the fact that in modern day um you have the west still manip man money man money man money man money man money man money man money man money man money man money populating African politics you can imagine what they would do in those days to those chiefs which for me I don't think that was the best answer he was supposed to give but yes as you rightly indicated no I'm not aware of any any Ghanaian tribe that has apologized. But from what I have heard >> from the foreign minister, the Ghanaian foreign minister, >> Mhm.

[00:19:54]>> it seems to me that the role the the reparative role that Africa is also going to play includes apologizing for their participation. That's from what I've heard from the foreign minister that because he has been interviewed recently on what is going to take place and it's actually it's going to be a series of events right a series of events that are going to be put in place in terms of this whole reparative place healing process reconciliation and all that and embedded in it. So that's why when I joined in that's why I was really you remember I was just typing that you should join because I wanted to bring these things to the perspective and when we are talking about reparative there are number of things that are going to be put in place right and one of them is what as I said the foreign minister has hinted in some of the interviews that he has he has granted that it's one one of them stepwise approach because apologies need to be granted apologies need apologies need to be because as the thing is You were part of it. You sold people >> and the people you sold were the people that went in there. Some of them died at sea. Some of them were sent there. The the descendants of slaves are still suffering in the in the in the US and all that. So these apologies need to be made. Reparations need to be made in that context. But >> the problem is Antoine the problem is and uh Madame Madame Chi Madame Chi-Chi Chi-Chi Labuchi cute name.

[00:21:32]Uh the point the problem is and and you've just mentioned that rightfully so is that when people when any nation acknowledges this a crime of some sort, right, and says, "Yeah, we did this thing." They know that that would mean they would have to they would have to compensate the victim. And I think that's one of the reasons why uh certain West African nations that have a history of being involved in um the transatlantic slave trade wouldn't because it would mean that because they're complicit, they would therefore also have to pay a form of reparations and I'm of the belief that that's why there isn't a a blatant willingness to do it. Um but stick around. Let me bring in more people just a second.

[00:22:19]>> Okay, let me just respond quickly to what you said and I'll just pause because Yeah.

[00:22:23]>> Okay, keep it very brief cuz I need to bring in others. Go ahead.

[00:22:26]>> Personally, I don't think that is the reason because whenever you think of reparations and you think of monies being given out, it makes you feel that that is why people are not apologizing, right? or people are not accepting their part because reparation includes reconciliation and in Ghana early in the early 2000s I don't will remember Ghana had a very bloody history in the 80s >> and when we the new government came in the 2000s we set up a whole reconciliation commission to really reconcile families that were >> they were murdered and all that. So whenever we are talking about re reparations the moment you think of finances you always miss the point of recon because the parties that are involved are the ones that are going to sit down and say that this is what the victims will say that this is what we think we want. Some victims will will say say that all that we want from you is to apologize and teach this in your schools. Some victims will see that.

[00:23:37]>> Hold on.

[00:23:40]Are you for finance or are you against it? Some >> hold on, Nigel. Okay, >> hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[00:23:49]Antoine, pause. Stick around. There are people on the panel that do want to address you. I would allow them to. Let me go in order though. Um, Ancient Goddess, go ahead. Let everyone know your ethnic background and where you're based.

[00:24:01]>> Um, I'm a black American and I'm here in Georgia.

[00:24:05]Okay, nice. Ah, up in. Go ahead.

[00:24:09]>> Please don't get caught up in the flat blackness. I think that is where we went wrong years ago and now we are in the situation that we are in today with everybody being black that comes into um the US not only being black but also labeling themselves as AfricanAmerican is a problem.

[00:24:29]>> I have four points I want to make. The first point is the AU and the EU work hand in hand. If you dig into just do some research and dig into the AU and you will find the EU in the background of it. They they are in this together.

[00:24:47]Okay. Number two, Obama appointed a Nigerian to be a representative for black Americans within the AU. That's a problem in itself. We don't have our own representation.

[00:25:02]Number three, Ghana set up a global reparation fund. If they didn't have any any um want any any compensation for this, why did they set up a global reparation fund? And they also want monies for people to repatriate Ghana.

[00:25:20]So, it's not like and and we know that um the Caribbean has KACOM. they should look deeply into um KACOM and the AU affiliation and what's behind it >> because I will say ancient goddess there's something that's making me very uncomfortable uh as far as that's concerned because even when I went on to the Caraccom website because the person last week was saying no even even caraccom have said that Ghana apologized and I said but they haven't apologized so how why would Caraccom say that and I I looked and car saying that that Ghana apologized which is false it's not true right so I was like what it says they they apologize in 2006 or 2009 and I was like no so I looked for this 2006 or 2009 apology and what they're referencing is um what's it called uh project Joseph Joseph project or something like that that Ghana's got you know Ghana's got a few um initiatives around bringing the diaspora back and all the rest of it and doing all these things. So that's not an apology. So I don't get why Capricorn would say that.

[00:26:31]THAT'S A PROJECT THAT IS GOOD, but it's not a formal apology. So to say that they formally apologize is false, right?

[00:26:39]So yeah, there is something weird going on. King Vincent, I'm sure, will talk on that in a bit when I let him speak, but it is really weird. Uh but yeah, go ahead, Ancient Goddess. Okay. So, with the repatriation, they want to hold the purse strings to all uh reparations so they can rebuild Africa. I believe it was by 20 before60. They want to re they want to build Africa off of these reparations. There there's nothing that uh black Americans have to gain from this. I'm not sure about the Caribbean because I'm not really involved in that.

[00:27:14]But like I said that um you should just be really Caribbean should really dig into what the connection and all the things that are going on with Kaccom and the AU because there's some shady things going on there and um the pan-Africans have given these people the authority to speak on behalf of black Americans. Most of the people that are in the organizations here in the US are they are not of black American descent.

[00:27:47]They're all immigrants. Even Hispanics are running these organizations that are supposed to represent black Americans.

[00:27:55]We have a major problem here. And just don't let it be you in the Caribbean.

[00:28:00]I'll land my plane there.

[00:28:03]Okay, stick around. Um let me bring in Nigel. Nigel, your ethnic background and where you're based. Nigel Lewis 007.

[00:28:16]Nigel, your ethnic background, where you based.

[00:28:20]Nigel Lewis, >> you're on mute.

[00:28:27]>> All right. Can you hear me now?

[00:28:29]>> Yeah, I can hear you.

[00:28:30]>> All right. Yeah, I'm a Jamaican and American. And um talking to most of my Jamaican homies, we feel as if Africans are trying to hijack those reparation movements right now to include themselves in it. I mean, financially for the most part for um an ancient, right?

[00:28:49]>> Ancient goddess.

[00:28:50]>> Yeah. Ancient goddess. Do y'all feel the same way? Uh the American side.

[00:28:54]>> Uh yes. Yes. We have a major problem with it. Um because uh all of this time, why now? I think that we are really on the precipice of getting this thing done and I think they're trying to step in and hijack it >> because it's time they have to pay up.

[00:29:15]>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we are as Jamaicans, we feel the same way, but um it is complicated and I don't know what what's going to be the next step. Uh especially with um Ghana seem like they're taking um they're taking the lead. So, I think it's already been hijacked. So, I don't know what's uh what's popping up, what's going to happen next.

[00:29:38]>> Mhm.

[00:29:43]>> Yeah. Okay. Um let me bring in uh fashion Ghana. Go ahead. Ethnic background. Where you based?

[00:29:51]>> Um I'm based in Ghana. Um both Akan and um Airway.

[00:29:57]>> Okay. Go ahead.

[00:29:59]>> Do I go to your questions or do I follow off the reparations discussion?

[00:30:03]>> Uh, you can do both. So, start where you're comfortable and then yeah, you can address the questions at some point, but go ahead.

[00:30:10]>> Okay. So, I'm definitely a pan-Africanist 100%.

[00:30:14]>> Yeah.

[00:30:15]>> Depending on what your definition of paninism may be.

[00:30:19]>> Uh, fashion, you have to hold the mic closer to your mouth because we can't hear you.

[00:30:23]>> Sound quiet.

[00:30:24]>> Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now?

[00:30:25]>> No. No. No. It sound a bit quiet.

[00:30:29]>> Oh my god.

[00:30:30]>> Closer to your mouth.

[00:30:32]>> Can you hear me now?

[00:30:33]>> No, you sound >> I can hear you. It's just you sound like you're not close to the microphone.

[00:30:38]>> Yeah, you're muffled or something.

[00:30:40]>> Okay. Okay. Hold up. Hold up one second.

[00:30:43]Let me try something.

[00:30:43]>> Do you have AirPods in?

[00:30:46]>> Um, no. I've not I've not I've not. It's just the the phone as it is. But can I can I do one thing? Can I just >> you stand back now? We can hear you.

[00:30:57]>> Oh, we can hear you now.

[00:30:59]>> Yeah.

[00:30:59]>> Okay. Okay. So, as I was saying, you know, I'm I'm a Panaffricanist, you know, 100% depending on what your depending on my definition. Let me put it that way. Um, >> what's your definition? Let's start there.

[00:31:12]>> Well, I think I I see panafricanism as a defense mechanism against oppression against people of African descent.

[00:31:21]So I don't I don't see panafricanism in the sense where um you have to start wearing African clothes and dancing like Africans, but I see we we have a common problem based on how we are treated around the around the world economically, politically and so forth.

[00:31:37]And for the objective of our liberation or our sovereignty, we come together to fight as a collective. So that's how I see it. Everything else you want to do, that's that's up to you. Um, as far as reparations, do I believe? Um, and and I would say this, I'm not really a supporter of the reparations movement. I don't know which part of >> You sound quiet. You sound quiet.

[00:32:03]>> Am I muffled again?

[00:32:04]>> Yeah, you sound far away.

[00:32:07]>> Okay, hold on. Okay.

[00:32:09]>> Oh, even worse now. Okay, you want to try and come back up? Um, guys, let's get this to 150,000 and 150 shares.

[00:32:18]Okay. 150,000 likes, 150 shares. Uh, is are you trying to come back up? Yeah, you are. Okay. Uh, go ahead. Fashion Ghana. Let's see if it works this time.

[00:32:29]>> Can you hear me now?

[00:32:30]>> Perfect. Yeah, go ahead.

[00:32:32]>> I had to log in with another phone.

[00:32:34]Okay. So, >> right. Did you are you based in Ghana?

[00:32:37]Are you living in Ghana?

[00:32:39]>> I'm living in Ghana, but I I was on a I was on a phone that wasn't too good, so I had to just >> No, no, no. It's fine. I was just trying to remember if you were based in Ghana or not or in Britain. Okay, cool. Go ahead.

[00:32:49]>> I'm I mean I was in UK for some while so if there's a bit of an English twang then that's where it's from.

[00:32:56]>> But I'm I'm Ghana. So >> um I do believe that Ghana does have a claim to reparations. Although I don't really believe in reparations. I don't know what about us makes us believe that USA or Europe or any inch of the white man is going to pay us for robbing us at any stage. But in as far as the discussion goes, I do believe Ghana has a claim. Now about the resolution, I think it was a fair um act of Ghana because it's put reparations at the forefront. something that many other organizations have tried to do and haven't done and they've been able to put it at the forefront of the U United Nations in partnership with the NAACP and with CARACOM which is I think the biggest organization for reparations for the Caribbean. So if you ask me their demand was to recognize slavery as the gravest crime the the transatlant Atlantic slavery as the gravest crime of humanity which has been done. Now if from this step where the United Nations has recognized it and you have caraccom that wants to take further an initiative against the British or against USA they have that platform to do it. If they want to disassociate from Ghana and go in their own direction, they have the ability to do it. If Ghana comes and says, "We want the money from the Africanamean slaves and the African-Amean slaves go and challenge the US government and say, "No, give us the money." They have the right to go and do it. Your claim is your claim as as has been said all across the board.

[00:34:45]However, let's not forget that when when we saw what happened in Africa during the slavery, first of all, none of us were there. Most of the information or at least a large majority of the information is what we read from the victors.

[00:35:03]It's what we read from the victims. And Africa is not a monolith. Ghana is not a monolith. Even the block you live in is not a monolith. On one side, you can read books that will tell you this these kings and these people were complicit, and on the other side, you're going to read about tribes from Ghana to Nigeria that fought against it and were killed.

[00:35:24]But if we sit back, >> please give me those references. Someone else said that there was a rebellion uh I think it was um who was it? Is it is it >> there's there's the tribe from Nigeria.

[00:35:38]There's Yanto. There there's there's many like just Google tribes.

[00:35:41]>> You're saying that there were there were tribes that that fought against the Europeans because they didn't want to do slavery anymore. Is that what you're saying?

[00:35:51]>> Yes. It's there's a whole >> Which tribe is that?

[00:35:54]>> I know. Yanto led one. I know there was an Orian.

[00:35:59]How do I spell that?

[00:36:01]>> Y Aanto. A S A N T W A. That wasn't during slavery. Just um >> Well, just Google Google African tribes that fought against slavery and you'll get >> No, I did and nothing came up. That's why I want the name of the tribes. Uh >> okay. When when I'm done, I'll send it to you.

[00:36:25]>> Tap the screen. Tap the screen for the likes.

[00:36:28]>> Sorry. Fashion. Go on. Can I just ask Can I Can I get >> Oh, just a m just a moment, Chap. Let him finish up and then I'll let you respond to me.

[00:36:37]>> Okay. All right, >> go ahead fashion.

[00:36:39]>> So, so when we look at it, it's like me looking at all the decisions the Jamaican government is doing and then in the near future I will come and say, "Oh, Jamaican people were this. They loved drugs. They they were they were allowing Europeans to dominate their beaches X Y and Zed. They were giving all their resources out. That's not a Jamaican >> fashion Ghana. Hear me? Are you? Yeah.

[00:37:08]Are you trying to be funny?

[00:37:10]>> No, I'm not. Can I Can I Can I get to my point? What I'm saying is that what a >> government feel like he's trying to be funny. Hold on. Hold on.

[00:37:17]>> He is trying to be funny.

[00:37:19]>> Why would I >> Hold on. Hold on. Wait. Stop.

[00:37:22]>> We're talking about a very specific issue here. Right.

[00:37:25]>> Right.

[00:37:25]>> Transatlantic slave trade. Right.

[00:37:28]>> We're talking about the fact that West African tribes participated in the transatlantic slave trade. And granted, Ghana was not an official nation yet, but now it is. And it also has tribes within it, within this nation that participated in the transatlantic slave trade, yet they have put themselves at the forefront of seeking reparations for the transatlantic slave trade. That's what we're talking about, right? This isn't to say, "Oh, all Ghanaians are bad." No one said that. Somehow you you've thrown that sentiment in there.

[00:38:01]No one said that. What you did, though, was you you you threw a little dig at Jamaica for some reason. Right. The reality, we're talking Hold on. We're talking about something that took place for hundreds of years, right? This reminds me of the video that I posted the other day with uh uh what appears to be a West African woman talking about, "Oh, why do Caribbean people and Jamaican people have a thing around having multiple baby fathers and multiple baby mothers?" And then when people were upset about that, one of the responses was, "Well, it was just a question and what's what's wrong with that?" And there's, you know, there's nothing wrong, isn't it? True. Uh she she has the right to ask, "Was she lying?" And then my response was, "Okay." and West Africa and Central Africa have the highest rates of child marriage in the world.

[00:38:51]>> Do I go online and start asking questions about that or making random statements about that like you just tried to do randomly about the trans Hold on. We're talking about the transatlantic slave trade. Let's not be funny, >> okay? Cuz I don't tolerate funny [ __ ] Okay, we're talking about what we're talking about. So if you're going to like make liquid digs that are literally nowhere near relevant right to this topic at hand which is in just national news right now it's global news right now right you're going to make little digs we're going to have an issue that I don't want to have because my apology I wasn't I wasn't making a dig I apologize I'd like to move on from it. Okay, hold on. Let me let me just let me just instead of asking a question, let me just get to the point I was trying to make. The point I was trying to make is when you have a leader that's intertwined with your oppressor, the decisions they make is not a representation of the people. So if we see these >> who said that though who said it was >> who said no, I was I was asking it from a rhetorical question point of view.

[00:40:01]>> So >> what is the purpose of that point though if no one said that?

[00:40:04]>> Okay. So, so the purpose of that point is to say that there were families who were affected by the kidnapping of people from their lives. Whether it was mothers, whether it was fathers, brothers, there were people that had resources deducted from them whilst this was going on. Now, if we want to believe the story that the white man just came in with a briefcase and said, "Hey, we're the slave traders. We're just here to do business." The same way they destabilized um um Congo with the Houthis and Totsis, that's by the UN.

[00:40:40]The same way we've seen the Liberian war. The same way they messed up Libya and have all these reasons that these are killers and people are killing their own people and we want to sit back and just go with how they tell their story.

[00:40:52]That's fine. But at the end of the day, when most of the people who have been transported out of Africa trace their lineage, it's not like they're coming from a different tribe that was um subdued. They're coming from the same tribe that they feel most most people in the diaspora link to the same tribes that they claim are the quote unquote slave traders. So, it's still the same people as far as that acknowledgement of who they are is. And does that mean that they all have to pay reparations to themselves? Because that's what you're asking for people from those tribes. So, that's the first thing. The the other thing that I want to put is that in that case, Ghana has a right to claim for reparations for those families for those people who have stolen from that >> the people who have had their members stolen from them.

[00:41:52]>> Are there people are there people in Ghana right now that that have that that that oral history that they talk about?

[00:41:59]Our family was taken from us and and your great great great grandfather. Is that a thing?

[00:42:05]>> I don't know. I'm not doing that research.

[00:42:06]>> You don't know. So, if you don't know, what is the point of this this?

[00:42:10]>> But then that's that's that's the same way of me asking you, do you know which family member of yours was on the slave ship?

[00:42:16]>> What I know that what I know what I know is that I'm Caribbean heritage as a result of history. What I know is that my DNA and my ancestry is mixed up because of what happened. That's what I know.

[00:42:30]>> That's what I know.

[00:42:31]>> Right.

[00:42:31]>> Right. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

[00:42:34]>> Well, well, okay. So, let me So, how do you know you're not one of the dark-kinned people of a lineage from people who were already on the island?

[00:42:42]>> I'm Well, I'm not going to be full tyino, am I?

[00:42:46]>> Well, there were there were black people across the whole world.

[00:42:49]>> I know what the tyenos are, but I have mixed ancestry. I'm not full tyino.

[00:42:55]>> But how do you know that? You're literally down your your your lineage traces.

[00:43:00]>> I know. I know that because of I know that because of my family. I know that because of my grandparents. I know that because of my great-grandparents. I know about their ethnicities and the different races that mixed into my family. I I'm not going to be pure Tyino. It's not a thing.

[00:43:16]>> So the same way people from those tribe are having that family lineage from people who are taken from that tribe.

[00:43:22]It's not it's not like you you're applying a general description to yourself and they can apply >> because those numbers were taken from those tribes.

[00:43:32]>> Those numbers were taken from those tribes.

[00:43:34]>> The fact is my tribe.

[00:43:38]>> My my ancestry is what it is is because of the history, right? You're making reference to people that stayed in West Africa and weren't traded off the land, right? and saying, "Well, they might have had family members that were stolen at one point in time, >> right?

[00:43:58]>> Stolen, right, and then traded away. Uh they they they might have and therefore they would be entitled to reparations.

[00:44:05]Makes no sense.

[00:44:07]>> No, like not. It's like utterly disingenuous. Why why why would it why would it if if someone comes to your your land and disrupts your process through guns, through forts, through battles, through um working with their let me say colonial kins against your people or your mass group of people?

[00:44:28]>> Well, against whose people? Because it was West African people that traded these people. They kidnapped people.

[00:44:37]They took prisoners of war and sold them. Europeans didn't just run through and start treging through the woods and whatnot and looking for people.

[00:44:45]>> Well, you see, we we say the story that fits our narrative. But if we talk about prisoners of war, prisoners of which war because at the end of the day, most of your lineage traces back to the same the same tribe that were selling slaves. So, which which tribe did they defeat before they sold you?

[00:45:07]Is that is that a genuine question?

[00:45:09]>> That's a genuine question. Prisoners of war. Which tribe were fighting against the slave?

[00:45:13]>> So, are you are you saying that there weren't any any tribal wars? Is that what you're saying?

[00:45:19]>> I'm not saying that there weren't any tribal wars. But what I'm saying is that you're claiming that your people were sold based off a tribal war and you're of a different >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[00:45:31]>> That's what YOU JUST SAID.

[00:45:32]>> WAIT, HOLD ON. I'VE MADE reference to multiple things. I made reference to people being prisoners of war and being sold. I made reference to people being kidnapped by other West Africans and sold during the trade. I've made reference to multiple ways in which West African people took other West African people and traded them.

[00:45:52]>> Prisoners of war. Yes.

[00:45:53]>> You've not made any reference to the fact that if you were a prisoner of war, that means there were people who were fighting against the slave traders, right?

[00:46:04]Well, first of all, there were different tribes of people that didn't get along with each other that also sold people, right? This is just what happened. There were people that were ones people that sold people and then ended up being enslaved themselves. This is just the history. So, but I'm still struggling to understand why someone in West Africa >> who was never sold would be entitled to reparations for the selling of slaves.

[00:46:40]They weren't sold. So, why did they need that?

[00:46:43]>> Let me ask you one quick question. If the Libyan people based on what happened with Gaddafi came out and said, "Hey, we deserve reparations." Do you think they're entitled to it? Even though there's still some trade, slave trading going on there, do you think they're entitled to it?

[00:47:00]>> I won't lie to you. I'm not familiar enough with what's taking place in that situation.

[00:47:07]>> So, I won't comment cuz I'm just not familiar enough.

[00:47:09]>> Let me let me give you something more recent. If Iraq came out and said they want reparations for what happened when they came and took out Saddam Hussein and because of the fact that ever since they took out Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. Ever since they took out Saddam Hussein and they put the puppet the puppet leaders there, they've been extracting their resources and what have you and that's been a loss on their part. Do you feel like because the leaders shook hands with the USA and did it, the people there don't deserve reparations?

[00:47:44]>> King Vinc King Vincent was just about to respond. Go ahead, King Vincent. I'll let you.

[00:47:48]>> Yeah, the the Iraq situation is older than the Libyan situation. So, you can't ask her that.

[00:47:54]>> King Vincent, let everyone know what your ethnic background is and where you're based, just for those that don't know.

[00:47:58]>> Oh, okay.

[00:47:59]>> I see you guys waiting, by the way. I'll bring you one. Go ahead, King Vincent.

[00:48:02]>> Yeah. Uh, hi everyone. Uh it's right now uh 5 5:00 in the morning uh 5:00 night.

[00:48:10]Um my name is King Vincent Panka living in Netherland uh near the capital Amsterdam.

[00:48:17]Uh born in Surinam, South America uh between British Guyana, French Guyana and Brazil. I'm a true king because I had to crown myself because of this pan-African nonsense to cut myself loose from this uh how do you say that? Uh putting my people in the box of being from African descent. My ancestors are not from African descent. My ancestors are original indigenous people from South America, not the natives because the natives are leftovers of the Portuguese colonialism in Indonesia.

[00:48:53]They brought those people over there, those native people with the split eyes.

[00:48:56]No disrespect. Okay. Um coming to that claim of uh Ghana about uh reparations.

[00:49:07]Um a short uh history explanation about Ghana. Ghana was renting mercenaries to the Dutch to the Dutch colonizers. They were also uh selling their own people to the Dutch. So what did they do? They put people on boats. First the mercenaries went to Indonesia because the Dutch didn't have the manpower to control Indonesia because they became the colonizer of Indonesia, you know. And the same thing they did to Surinam. They brought mercenaries to our soil with innocent peoples on the boat itself. These mercenaries have behaved like uh anarchist. Let me say it in a nice way. There's another word for it uh that starts with a t. These Africans, that's what they have been doing back in those days. And they are part of the tribe of the Ashanti Ashant Quakua uh 1836 I think it was. So they came to our soil. My ancestors had uh had um uh they had civilization, you know, but these mercenaries burnt everything down because they had a conflict with the colonizer itself. These people are playing a chess game worldwide, you know, a secret game, secret contracts that most of you don't know about. We have those contracts. We can show it.

[00:50:34]When I was here last time, I showed I have shown an a golden pipe. Red golden pipe is a contract between the Dutch and the Ashanti Quakodua tribe, the Ashantes, you know, those from Ghana.

[00:50:50]And that that contract, that pipe is for the mercenaries that the Dutch are renting from the Ghanaian people, the Ashantis, and also selling the Ghanaian people, you know. So in fact, Ghana is guilty of a crime against humanity.

[00:51:10]Let that sink in. So if Ghana is guilty of a crime against humanity, Ghana should pay some reparations, not claim reparations. Pay reparations to those people, their descendants that are on the continent of South America, maybe North America, the Kiba.

[00:51:31]So Ghana has no right to claim some reparations. I don't know where they are going to get that money, but they first have to they first have to pay reparations to all of these people who are descendants of those who were put on the ships to the uh Americas and the Kariba.

[00:51:49]So I don't know what the logical way is with this reparation thing. Another thing, we have Ghanian descendants in my country.

[00:52:01]These people have been spreading lies internationally via KCOM and maybe via um African Union. That my ancestors were evil, that my ancestors were treating them bad when they were on our soil. We never put these people on the boat.

[00:52:20]We never bought these people. We never rented mercenaries.

[00:52:26]I'm furious about what is happening. BE YOURSELF. BE YOURSELF.

[00:52:32]Hold on. Hold on. Uh um Chuck, did you want to speak before and I said yes and then you didn't. I didn't have you speak.

[00:52:41]>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:42]>> I'm so sorry.

[00:52:45]Trap was meant to speak. Chuck, go ahead. I'm going to let Trap speak cuz I forgot. My apologies. Okay. Um, and guys, let's get this to 150 uh 150,000.

[00:53:01]Okay.

[00:53:02]>> Yeah. Initially, I wanted to to speak on um something that fashion Ghana was saying at the time. Um, but there's been a lot of things that have been said since the times I kind of kind of lost.

[00:53:11]However, >> you can go ahead though.

[00:53:13]>> Okay. However, um, there's someone in the comments called Giza, right? And I've been watching their their things for a while now. They said a lot of derogatory things which is really rubbing me up the wrong way and I've just been waiting to speak on it. First of all, they said something about Jamaicans um and oh Jamaicans this and that and this is why their culture is so whatever because of their their culture and the way they are or something like that. This is way way earlier.

[00:53:37]>> Then then there was another one that said where he's saying or she's saying there are black Americans that sold other black Americans so y'all are not qualified. Now, this is a very boring statement to me cuz you can't mix and blend what happened in Africa when they were quite happy and willing to sell us out versus people that have now been damaged mentally, tortured by the oppressor, and no longer have a say on anything they did at that point in order to be in survival mode. There's a difference. Do you get what I'm saying?

[00:54:07]Like they're trying to mix like we was like so like we were liberated while we were like, you know, while the Americans and the Caribbeans were liberated when we were selling each other out at that point. It was survival mode and at that point we've been so mentally damaged. It was like colorist issues and all these other things started to play a minority honest >> and yeah and further to that it's a minority of people. So don't be coming like that little geyser. Come on the thing and have your say if you want to but I've seen you chatting for time but what I realized is that individuals trying to do cuz they're African. I can tell by the page, they're basically trying to say, "We're not qualified to be upset about what happened in Ghana or any of the other West African countries simply because it was taking place over in the Americas or in the Caribbean."

[00:54:51]When that rhetoric is completely wrong, cuz as I said, it's a different narrative. When you're talking about being oppressed, dumbed down, the butchering that they were taking over over there is different to what the kings and whoever else of the Ashantes and the whatever other tribes that were involved in West Africa who were quite happily selling them on for whatever they wanted. Whether it was mercenaries, whether it was money in cash in hand, whatever you want to say, it's a whole different thing. So, Giza, stop coming on here and and and ping that kind of rhetoric. I'm bored of it. It's played out. And if you understood our history, you would know better than to say those things. Don't try to do a price comparison cuz it ain't going to work.

[00:55:28]I'll call you up on it.

[00:55:30]>> Typical enough. I've had enough of it.

[00:55:33]>> Yeah. No, it's it's boring.

[00:55:36]>> Very tired and played out.

[00:55:38]>> Can I reply?

[00:55:38]>> Um, just a moment. Fashion Ghana.

[00:55:41]Fashion Ghana. Yes, you are welcome to respond. Go ahead.

[00:55:46]>> Okay. Well, it's it's very interesting that a lot of people that say they're not Panaffricanist always feel they need to get on a on platforms where they're black people from all over the world to express their grievance. If if you're a nationalist, then just stick to your people and move forward with your people. Now to the self-crowned king, this is the reason why I brought the point up about Jamaica. Not to say anything bad about Jamaican people, but to say that when you have leaders who are handinand with colonial masters, you don't take the decisions of the leader and point the finger at the people. Cuz there was no voting anywhere where African were asked, hey, do you want to go and mess up Suriname? And every Ghanaian said, "Yeah, that sounds like a good idea." And this is what we keep doing. Europeans know their tactic. Get rid of the head. Put in a head that works with you and then make and then wash your hands off of of the the the future repercussions. It's the same thing we've seen all over the world. And when people rise up to remove these leaders, we see the destruction and the deaths that come with it. And then they say, "Oh, it's a tribal war." The same story with Sri Leon. The same story with Libya. The same story with with Congo and Rwanda. It's the same thing. Hey, this is the leader and his people. The people are opposed to them. Kill them.

[00:57:17]And then say it's a tribal war. But yet, we feel so comfortable to come and do that and point the finger and say, "Oh, the Ashanti people." As if as if there's something in the blood of the Ashanti people that woke them up and said, "Hey, today will be a nice day to sell my dad." and and and and if I'm to liken it to something that that's like someone and and not to follow the Giza's point, I don't know who he is. I didn't read his comments, but if I'm to liken it to it, it's like me coming to say, "Hey, look at all the black prison wardens and all the black policemen who are capturing young boys and putting them in prison, which we know is an industrial slavery complex because people go in there and work for for little as nothing to free." and then saying, "Hey, if all these black people are involved in this process, then the black people are slave traders." No, there's some people who woke up and said, "I want to do this for a paycheck. I want to go against the interest of my people for this." And this is what has happened in Africa. And this is why I'm saying that when most of you trace your lineage, you're not coming from some exclusive tribe that was just waring and got dominated and got sold. You're coming from the same tribes.

[00:58:31]>> How do you know?

[00:58:33]>> All >> Hold on one second. Hold on. Hold on.

[00:58:35]Fashion.

[00:58:36]>> Yeah.

[00:58:37]>> What is your point though? You're making REFERENCE TO THE FACT HOLD ON. YOU'RE MAKING REFERENCE to this idea >> to the fact that there are people who are in the Americas and in the Caribbean islands, right, in South America, so on and so forth, right? who can trace their ancestry >> back to tribes that participated in the transatlantic slave trade.

[00:59:03]>> The majority. Yes.

[00:59:05]>> What's your point?

[00:59:07]>> Cuz the fact IS THE FACT OF this they themselves were sold. That's why they're not there now. The people that are still there, they weren't sold. So what's your point? So they can trace it. Okay. And >> so my fact is my sorry my point is just the same way as you might be in the Caribbean or in USA you are not a direct um >> you're not a you're not someone who was enslaved. You're going based on what happened to your ancestors is the same way these people who've had as a group have had family members deducted from them can claim for reparations for what happened.

[00:59:47]sound like a white person.

[00:59:48]>> You know, you do that.

[00:59:51]I've never heard a white person say that.

[00:59:53]>> What? Yeah, that's because you're Maybe because you're you're in Ghana and it's predominantly black country. But let me tell you something. I live in the UK and those things have been said and with attitude and chest >> just like what you've just said.

[01:00:05]Disgusting.

[01:00:06]>> The goal of some things.

[01:00:10]>> Can I hear something?

[01:00:12]>> Yeah.

[01:00:13]>> Yeah. So, okay. So, uh, first I'm I'm really lost with what fashion is saying. Um, I I'm not your ethnic background if you wanted to.

[01:00:25]>> I'm from I'm from Ghana.

[01:00:28]>> Um, >> okay. Go ahead.

[01:00:29]>> Okay. So, he's here before, guys. That's why I'm letting him speak. Go ahead. I I I get lost in in his thoughts because he t tends to bring a lot of parameters in.

[01:00:39]But I I think that we must not take away the fact that the issues that we are having in America, right, among the black communities in America can be connected directly to the slave trade.

[01:00:58]We cannot take that away because the >> Let me ask you one question because um the their current reparations movement claims that majority of them were in America before the slave trade. So the issues that are going on with them would have still gone on regardless of the slave trade.

[01:01:20]that argument that they make.

[01:01:21]>> I may be ignorant of the black people that were already in America before the transatlantic slave trade blasts got there. I may be ignorant. I don't know.

[01:01:32]I don't I I believe that the blacks that we have in America were the product of the transatlantic slave trade. If you have any other source, you can let me know. But the thing is that recently come I'm I'm coming coming recently I was trying to >> just a group of idiots saying that >> I was trying to look at the gang violence in the US and all that trying to read through it and all that and you see we must not take away the the fact that the slave trade segregation racism and everything we have among the black communities in in in the US now cannot be dissociated from the slave trade. So for you to and it's very easy for them to also trace that their genealogy to the slaves because for example the last slave the last slave ship that got to the US there are families in the US now that still trace their genealogy to that ship. So it very easy for people to do that. So we and if we are going to get those people, it's going to be very I think you should not um simplify the impact to the slave trade in the places where the slaves got to.

[01:02:43]Now I'm coming now the other >> you just said something I didn't do. I didn't simplify it. I was answering the question as to why Ghana has a claim. So I'm saying that how the Ghanaian people were affected, they can make that claim.

[01:02:57]what the US, the black Americans and the Caribbeans, their claim they want to make, they can make their own claim. But I'm standing on the fact that Ghana has its right to make its claim based on the the the wars the I mean we we we even just >> let's not be disingenuous. Let's not do that because what you if if that was your view, you wouldn't keep making reference to the fact that there are people who are descendants of slaves who have ancestry that can be traced back to tribes that sold people. You wouldn't keep making reference to that if you actually believed what you just said.

[01:03:33]Okay? Because at the end of the day, we're saying they shouldn't be entitled to reparations for the transatlantic slave trade specifically. You're saying, "Yeah, but the people who were sold can trace their ancestry back to those some of those people. So why should they be in?" That makes no sense. Let's not do that. Stick around fashion. I will I will let you respond. Let me bring some pictures.

[01:03:56]>> Yeah, I I would like to address that point.

[01:03:58]>> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I need to let other people speak. Well, it is. And that's irritating for me when if someone says I'm Caribbean heritage, right? I'm Jamaican. I'm Dominican. I'm Triny. I'm Beiji. I'm um St. Lucian. I'm Kitian. I'm I'm G. I'm Grenade. People say this stuff and then it's Yeah, BUT YOU'RE AFRICAN. YOU'RE AFRICAN. WHY ARE YOU SAYING YOU'RE AFRICAN? You need to say you're African. It's like who?

[01:04:22]Listen, I ACKNOWLEDGE African ancestry.

[01:04:25]I'm not going to call myself African because that's not what I am. I'm Caribbean heritage and I have African ancestry. My history is what it is. It's not a denial of my African ancestry.

[01:04:41]It's just the reality of what I am now.

[01:04:44]So I can't relate to someone who's in West Africa. I can't. The culturally, even the people in Britain that I've been around who are West African, TOTALLY DIFFERENT C LIKE WE'RE NOT the same people. And that's fine. But if you say, "No, you you um I'm I'm this," then it's no, you're just being self-hating or you're being anti-African because you're not calling yourself African.

[01:05:06]I've literally had people say, "No, um you need to say that you're African. You shouldn't be saying you're Caribbean."

[01:05:12]>> No. Can I >> And I'm genuinely baffled when I hear it because then what like what we we were talking about at the beginning of the live, we'll reference the person that lives in the UK now. He's Nigerian. and he's Nigerian, born he's Nigerian ethnically and his parents moved to Monzerat and he calls himself Caribbean and no one has a problem with it. NO ONE NO ONE SAID, "NO, but you African. YOU DIDN'T SAY YOU'RE AFRICAN. HOW COME?"

[01:05:37]And he's literally African. He's West African. He's Nigerian, but no one has a problem with him calling himself Caribbean. I have to say there's something disingenuous here because you have a problem with people just saying what they are. It's weird. People are being disingenuous.

[01:05:54]That's why these conversations always go left and it comes back to you guys just hate being African. I've always acknowledged African ancestry. I have zero problems with acknowledging African ancestry. None whatsoever. I know the history. I'm very proud of what my my ancestors did. Very flipping proud. I have mixed ancestry. That's the story.

[01:06:14]That's just what happened because of what happened.

[01:06:18]>> I I'm not seeing the shares. I think the lady has actually been giving you the number of listeners because the number >> 151 is 129 >> 151. Okay, one second. Hold on. Hold on.

[01:06:29]Fashion. One sec. Just one second. One second. Let me turn the the thing back on.

[01:06:35]Okay, it should be on now. Cool. Okay, go on. Fashion, you can respond. Well, first I I just wanted to put a quick uh question and I don't want to be, you know, trying to dominate because I know there are other people on the panel, but don't you think we would be having a different conversation if we had a history of African people that people in the diaspora had been meeting and 99% of them were like, "You're not African. You don't look African. You have nothing to do with Africa." We would then have another backlash of people coming to us and saying, "Oh, you don't want you don't like us. You don't want anything to do with us like what the FBA people are doing." So, in one sense, people are complaining when Africans welcome them and say, "Hey, we're the same as you."

[01:07:25]And then in another sense, people are complaining and saying, "Hey, Africans don't welcome us." So, which is it which which one should it be? Who is that?

[01:07:35]Because I personally here's my stance.

[01:07:37]My stance is very clear, right? My stance is this. Yeah. Everyone has different ethnic backgrounds that has to be respected. Everyone has different cultures that has to be respected.

[01:07:47]Everyone has cultures that they have cultivated depending on their history.

[01:07:51]That has to be respected. Everyone has different types of ancestry, right?

[01:07:57]Depending on the circumstances in terms of what took place historically, that has to be respected. People can unite politically and strategically when it comes to shared objectives and shared goals, but that should not, as far as I'm concerned, come at the expense of cultural and ethnic eraser. And that's it. That's it. So, if I say I'm Caribbean heritage, I'm Jamaican heritage, I shouldn't then hear, but well, you're African. Why won't you say you're African? Why? Especially when I run around saying, I have African ancestry. This is what happened with my ancestors. This is what happens with my lineage. This is why I have all these different situations in my bloodline because of this. This history, this history is why I shouldn't then be told, "No, you need to not call yourself Caribbean." We literally had someone say that he didn't like Caribbean people saying they were Caribbean. It's weird.

[01:08:51]It's weird. So, as far as I'm concerned, it's very simple. Let people be what they are and not dictate to them what you feel they should say they are even though they are just what they are now.

[01:09:05]>> It's as simple as that for me. Anyone with a different view that's a different view and you're welcome to share it but that's just my stance.

[01:09:11]>> Yes. And I and I guys question >> go on fashion. Um and then I'm bringing in Okay. So go fashion.

[01:09:20]>> No I was just saying I agree with you.

[01:09:22]>> Oh okay cool.

[01:09:23]Do do Africans think Jamaicans have a specific look?

[01:09:27]>> That Brit, sorry, Brit. Sorry. Go on, Nigel. What did you say?

[01:09:30]>> Do Africans think Jamaicans have a specific look?

[01:09:36]>> Okay. So, um I think I So, you see, I don't think that Africans think Jamaicans have a specific look because from where I sit, it's difficult to look at someone and say the person is Jamaican.

[01:09:53]>> And in fact, even if you let me even extend it to the environment.

[01:09:59]If someone takes a picture of some parts of Ara or even Cape Coast and takes some parts of Jamaica, you may not even be able to distinguish between the two.

[01:10:11]Right? So I think that usually until a person has really interacted with any of these current ethnicities very well, you not be able to distinguish between the two. For instance, anybody who has not really interacted with Ghanaians and Nigerians very well might not be able to distingu distinguish between a Ghanian and Nigerian.

[01:10:36]But as >> I actually have been able to make the distinction as a Nigerian. I don't find it difficult to do either. People usually get shocked when I do that. As far as Caribbean people are concerned and Jamaican people are concerned and just West Indian people are concerned because I grew up around West Indian communities in Birmingham and that was the majority of us at the time. It was easy for me to identify someone who had a West Indian background. Uh I wouldn't say oh this person I know you're Jamaican. I just knew someone was West Indian. Uh, and I knew that because when I went to London and was exposed to other communities, I was always able to spot someone who had a West Indian uh, background and I was always right when I'd ask them, are you are you West India? Yeah, I'm St. Lucian. Are you West? Yeah, I'm Grenada.

[01:11:24]I I was able to spot my own.

[01:11:26]>> So, generally speaking, >> until you've interacted, >> I don't know for other people outside of that maybe. But for me, I don't I don't struggle to identify people. I I think that until you've adequately interacted, you not be able to do that fine distinction. I think it's the same way as if you've not really interacted with Japanese, Chinese, and some of these Asians, you'll not be able to distinguish between the two. So for me, I for me >> personally, I do not take a lot of things to heart. If someone looks at me and then the person categorizes me differently because I feel the person doesn't know, all I have to do is to correct that person because a lot of people have not interacted with a lot of people before. I'm sure even if you look at this this panel, I don't know how many of us here have even been to Africa before. How many of us have even been to Ghana and visited Jamaica? And because anytime I see videos of J of Jamaica and including Surinam and even Trinidad then to togo Haiti and and and the rest sometime you can see some video and say no this this is like some part of Ghana.

[01:12:41]So for for for me yes I feel that every individual should be able to identify with whatever the person wants to identify with. Nobody should be forced to say I'm African or I'm this because an African currently is someone who belongs to the any of the African countries. If the person doesn't belong to any of the African person is not African. However, if someone says that my ancestry goes down to Africa and therefore in addition to being a Jamaican I want to also identify as an African. the person is absolutely right because the person's ancestry goes but the same thing applies to black American. However, the little bit that I'll just tap from what fashion said is that sometimes some narratives on Tik Tok and the rest makes you feel like people hate Africa. You will listen to some black Americans and when they speak it's like what have we done wrong because >> sometime I've been waiting It's a real thing.

[01:13:46]Wait one moment.

[01:13:50]Let me just drop and then let let me let me just finish my others will come. I was just saying that sometimes you hear some comments like people hate Africans.

[01:13:58]And now when I look back in Ghana, I'm like growing up in Ghana there was no even 0.1% of hate from Ghanaians towards black Americans, towards the Caribbeans.

[01:14:12]In fact, we love them to the core. There is no taxi you see in Ghana that doesn't have the flag of Jamaica and the flag of the US. It's like the way Ghanaians love >> the Jamaican flag and the US flag in Ghana.

[01:14:27]>> The US flag, but the Jamaican flag is heavily heavy and and tax.

[01:14:32]>> It's heavy. I lit I've literally heard about stuff like I heard that um I've seen even South African people there's this compilation >> videos um >> from Tik Tok running around at the moment of people who were South African that were crying >> because they just found out that Jamaica's not in Africa.

[01:14:53]>> Yes. See >> it's the it's just weird >> the Jamaican flag. See, you go to any bar salon and the Jamaican flag question AI is in the in the comments. Uh he's a brother from North America. Is it possible to get him up because you can have a good conversation with him also.

[01:15:14]>> Okay. Hold on.

[01:15:16]>> Okay.

[01:15:16]>> I see. I'll come to you in a bit. AI.

[01:15:18]Let's go and order. Um, >> so let let me just conclude and say that growing up in Ghana, >> there was no hate from Ghanaians towards black Americans or the Cararibbeans because the love was core Jamaican flag, every barbering salon, every taxi, every van. You can find it graffitis all over the place.

[01:15:38]>> Why? Why is that? Do you know why?

[01:15:42]>> Because we just see them as part of us.

[01:15:45]Like that is it. I said on the last show, our biggest artists are dance hall musicians.

[01:15:52]>> Yes. Our biggest artists are dance hall artists who always go to the Jamaic to go and learn and then come. So it's like whenever you move out and we hear comments that we hate them, then you begin to wonder >> who told you that? Who told you that?

[01:16:09]like and this is something so again so with a lot of the and I I make sure I focus mainly on Britain with a lot of the stuff I've been seeing with people just >> uh uh bashing being funny disrespectful towards Caribbean people in general. Um a lot of them are people that are Brits who are have West African backgrounds. I do believe if you were here for the earlier conversation, it's linked to um the pe the people uh that have traumas around not wanting to be what they actually are. Um hey, Montana, how you doing? Um so yeah, like I think I think it's I think it's that. But um stick around. Let me bring in some others. Uh go ahead, Brit, your ethnic background and where you're based. I've spoken to you before, I'm sure, but uh I just don't remember what your ethnic background was. So let everyone know.

[01:16:58]And guys, let's get this to 200k and 200 shares. Yeah. All right.