Property & sharemarket predictions with Diana Mousina - Mo Money with Ben Nash

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]Well, Tiana, welcome. Thank you so much for having me, Ben. Great to have you here. Look, I actually I once I did this road show with an economist and uh Who was the economist? Oh, I can't say for uh for confidentiality reasons, but I I promised him I was I was MCing this road show and I promised him that I wouldn't make any economist jokes and he promised me that he wouldn't make any barista jokes.

[00:00:22]Still couldn't really tell exactly what he meant, but anyway, I'm keen to get into some economics.

[00:00:27]>> I didn't realize this was a podcast about dad jokes.

[00:00:30]>> [laughter] >> Was that That's That's That's actually what he said. That's actually happened.

[00:00:34]That's a true story. That's not a dad joke. I thought that he was just referring to you as a barista because you have a beard. Yeah, and I I think I was going through a phase of wearing loafers and no socks at that time, but >> [laughter] >> I mean, economists can be a quirky bunch, for sure.

[00:00:48]This is true, but you guys have got the crystal ball, so like we're keen we're keen to check it out and and see see what's going on in the economy.

[00:00:57]There's a lot happening at the moment.

[00:00:59]What are you What are you What are you saying out there? Oh, there certainly is a lot happening and I feel like it's the politics the macro environment. So, when we talk macro, we're basically talking growth, inflation, labor market, interest rates.

[00:01:15]And at the moment, domestic and global politics are playing a much bigger role in that. Globally, of course, what's happening in the US is proving to be a challenge for the developed world because we're basically been used to the US being this close ally to countries like Australia and now we're seeing a move away from that. So, after the pandemic, we saw a lot of countries moving to become more domestic focused, focus on the manufacturing base, not rely on global counterparts, and now we're seeing that again with Trump 2.0. Mhm. And the politics are causing a lot of issues in financial markets, too. When we talk financial markets, we mean equities and bonds, commodities, exchange rates. So, share markets did have a bit of a fall in March when we saw the outbreak of war in the Middle East and never covered a bit since then, but there's still a lot of volatility in share markets. And the domestic politics at the moment is dominated by the fact that we do have a federal budget coming up in a few weeks, but I think also this expectation that the government has to do something to get Australia's economy to be a bit more vibrant. The good news is that Australia's economy is quite resilient in the past few years and the outlook is still is still good for Australia, I think, but a lot of people aren't feeling that and that's the challenge when I talk to clients. I mean, most of our clients are now financial advisers and and their end clients. And I look at the confidence numbers and I think, well, people are not really feeling this resilience that Australia actually has, which is interesting. Mhm. Why is that, do you think? Because we and there is like quite a bit of data out there about the sort of the decline in real household income. If you look at what's happened over the last little while that yes, we've seen a lot of wage growth, but we have at the same time seen a lot of inflation and a lot of the numbers are showing that households are sort of feeling a bit further behind. So, I suppose that partly explains it, do you think, or I think that's a major reason. Uh the real wage decline was the worst in about 2023, 2024. We went through a period where household disposable income growth was negative for more than a year, I'd say.

[00:03:24]The good news since then is that we've actually seen better outcomes. Interest rates were cut, not this year, but they were prior to this year. We saw inflation come down below 3% on an annual basis. We had some tax cuts as well. So, actually we saw this pick up in real income growth for households, but I think it's like this PTSD that households feel from years of elevated inflation and we're not and we're not used to that. Mhm. Before the pandemic, we basically had environment in Australia where inflation was flat. It was like 2% and wages growth was pretty soft, too. So, I guess you weren't actually getting a real wage increase, but people weren't feeling these one-off large price increases. And it feels like it's been one supply shock after another in Australia. We had the pandemic where of course we had the supply chain closures, and then we had the reopening, and everyone was revenge spending, revenge travel, and we saw big increases in things like food prices. And then since then it's been another food shock like high coffee prices, high chocolate prices, eggs, and now it's energy and fuel. And people are just feeling like, "When is this going to stop?" So, I think it is the real wage decline that's really weighing on people and remembering the level of prices from a few years ago. As an economist, I have to explain to people, "Well, inflation's actually measured by the change in prices." So, when we talk about inflation slowing, we're talking about it moving from a rate of, let's say, 3 and 1/2% to 3%. That's actually a slowing in inflation. It doesn't mean that inflation's not going up. Prices will always go up over the long term usually. The Central Bank has an inflation target of 2 and 1/2% and we don't want to see prices going down actually over the long term. That's bad for the economy, and we can talk about that, too.

[00:05:07]But inflation's always going to go up, but it's the pace of how fast it's going up that we care about. So, the headline really is the the cost of living crisis continues.

[00:05:18]It's the cost of living crisis for everyday spending. It's spending on items that you probably don't want to spend on like the things that have gone up the most are the boring items that you have to spend on rents, construction costs, medical costs, child care, education.

[00:05:36]Exactly, power. Diesel.

[00:05:39]A2 milk.

[00:05:40]>> [laughter] >> Who Who, you know, that no one wants to spend more on that stuff. You you to spend on the fun stuff like holiday travel and that has gone up too.

[00:05:48]People forget that prices of a lot of consumer durables and non-durables have actually gone down over the long term.

[00:05:55]You know, I went to buy a couch a few weeks ago and we're looking at one I was like, this is the same price that we paid 10 years ago for a couch. But you don't really remember that or also you think about your your your phone.

[00:06:07]Obviously the cost of the phone has gone up if you just look at it. You know, now an iPhone whatever number we're up to 17, I don't even know, is probably $2,000 or so and 10 years ago that was more like a $1,000 maybe a little bit more. But if you actually adjust for what what extra stuff you get, a better camera, better quality, more space, when economists would measure that, you don't necessarily just look at the change in price growth. You also look at at how the the product has improved in its in its in its quality. So, telecommunications and inflation hasn't really been that high over the long term. Actually, I think it's probably trended down if you look at it on a on a on a 10-year basis.

[00:06:49]The other thing for Australia is of course the housing issue.

[00:06:53]And it's a problem that has been exacerbated the last few years because home price growth has just been so high that young people feel like they're just completely locked out. The government can't and won't help them. Well, this is how they feel and it's contributing to those cost of living problems. But the government's doing all those things like just letting people buy houses with very little money no matter how much income that they earn, right? Like surely that's going to help.

[00:07:20]Um well, if you're one of the lucky ones that can utilize that policy, I think you would be feeling good about that. If you're a first-time buyer that got access to a grant, uh that's that's great for you. But for the economy, it's a terrible policy because it just pushes up home prices over the long term. Again, it's hard to explain to people, you know, everyone wants more relief from the government. Yeah, I'd love a thousand dollar check in the mail, but what implications does that have for actually inflation in the long run? Or when you think about how much the government or the Fair Work Commission assigns to a minimum and award an EBA and enterprise bargaining agreement wage increases which are due in the next few weeks. People of course want to want to see their real wages go up, but if we put them up too much, that has massive implications for inflation around the economy. So you have to think about the offsets sometimes with these types of policies.

[00:08:13]>> Sure, but why isn't the government thinking about it? Like it seems pretty obvious that we've got a supply shortage for properties. We've already seen so much property price growth and then they come out with policies that are that are driving more driving more demand into the market and putting more people in the market that are more cashed up. Like it seems pretty obvious. Like I'm not an economist.

[00:08:33]I'm not a you know, whatever you know, I'm not a politician, but like what the hell? Like It's it's it's optics. They they want to be seen to be doing something.

[00:08:45]They know the intergenerational equity problems at the moment. They are working on the supply side, but it's really hard. One of the biggest issues is that productivity growth in construction has been has been really soft in the past few years. In the past in the last 10 years, it now takes double the amount of time to to build a home than it did before. There's massive regulatory issues in in construction which has been in inflating prices.

[00:09:13]And the government's doing what it can with that, but it takes a long time.

[00:09:17]It's not going to change the dial overnight, but something like a first home buyer policy feels great for people that can utilize it. And are they consulting with the likes of people like yourselves, economists to to create these decisions?

[00:09:31]Well, Treasury has a whole team of economists working there and the government has been um connecting with private sector economists.

[00:09:40]Um I'd say more in this administration than than they than than they have before, actually.

[00:09:47]Um the Treasury has run some roundtables, and they had the productivity reform roundtable last year. So, they do consult with economists about these types of issues, and Treasury does have a team of people looking at this, but Treasury is not necessarily the ones that are making the decisions about those types of policies.

[00:10:04]Mhm. And what's your take on the these proposed budget changes, capital gains tax, negative gearing?

[00:10:10]Uh it's seeming more and more likely that we are going to see something there. What's your take?

[00:10:16]Yeah, we we don't know yet um what's going to be in the budget, but we are getting a few leaks and tidbits, which always tends to happen.

[00:10:22]>> go. Here's the scoop. Well, It is. I don't I don't know any more than the media's been um publishing, but this is what tends to happen before the budget.

[00:10:30]You get more and more information in the week or 2 weeks before it comes out. I mean, it looks like they're going to touch capital gains tax, so reduce the capital gains tax concession from its current rate of 50% to something more like 30 or 35%.

[00:10:44]I think that they would grandfather that for existing uh for for existing um investors or um house owners.

[00:10:53]>> Albo is talking pretty tough. I was looking some some comments, and I don't know how much of this is just fear-mongering. So, it's like we're going to we're going to make out like it's going to be really extreme, so then when it's a little bit less extreme, then we all like, "Oh, well, at >> That's what I was wondering, too. At least they didn't uh do it.

[00:11:06]>> And he's offloaded two investment properties recently. Yeah. I was told.

[00:11:11]I know you know this, Diana. [laughter] Just give us the scoop. If I could look into Albanese's brain, what would he be thinking? Um I I It would be a pretty tough policy not to not to grandfather it, I'd say. I I just don't get the sense that they're going to go that tough. Maybe they'll surprise us. Negative gearing um changes are also a possibility. I mean, those those have been spoken about for a long time. I don't think that they would completely scrap negative gearing. I think that they would limit it to something like new properties or to one property or somehow limit the amount that you can claim. I don't think that they would completely get rid of it. That seems like quite a drastic move. Yeah. And what I'm hearing is that they're saying that this is like a you know, intergenerational it's been unfair and we want to make it fair, but it seems pretty [ __ ] unfair for the people that are copping it in the middle. Like I get it that it's fair for all the generations coming up like in the future once you do that and then it's like we've got a level playing field, but like one of the things that we hear a lot and I see it a lot on my feed. It's like people see that the boomers have made all of this money and you know, they would they're not only from the sort of more lenient tax policies that existed, but also the fact that the you know, wage growth and to property prices the ratios have just exploded over the last sort of 30 or so years.

[00:12:34]Seems to me like it's just it's the middle generation that are trying to actually get ahead now, which is like a lot of our listeners that we're going to be the ones that wear it the most to make it fairer for everyone else in the future. So should we all just feel good about the fact that we're going to make it better for our kids and their kids and all that sort of [ __ ] Is it really going to pan out that way? Like if you think about the way that house prices are going, is it really going to ultimately be better for our kids? Like the way that I look at and the conversations that I'm having regularly with uh people that are that are calling in is that before it was like I'd like to set my a little bit of cash aside for my kids for the future. Now the conversation talk track is my children will not in under any circumstance be able to afford in generally speaking it's Sydney or Melbourne or now Brisbane as well. So I need to make sure that I've got enough in place so that my children can afford a house in the future. So, I need you to help me and I need you to make sure that you can help me help them. Yeah. I mean, all these concerns are completely valid.

[00:13:34]Um I do feel like the middle-income population in Australia is being squeezed and it's not just Australia, actually globally we see that, too. Um and in Australia, I think the problem is worse because our tax system places such heavy emphasis on taxing that middle-income group. Mhm.

[00:13:55]>> Had so much bracket creep in the past few decades. We haven't had proper tax reform. The tax cuts that we got uh a year ago or so were minimal, particularly for the middle-income group. Our highest rate of tax cuts in a very low multiple of income. So, the middle-income group is already squeezed from that taxation point of view. And I do agree that these changes to CGT but or or potential changes, I should say, alleged changes.

[00:14:19]Um they will probably actually hit middle-income earners the most because uh we know from the tax data that it's not the ultra-wealthy that are using negative gearing Yeah.

[00:14:31]>> it's actually normal people that have normal jobs and are just trying to get ahead. But, I do think that it's important. I mean, I I I am I I am I am pro the changes if they if they are to be announced around um trying to reduce the capital gains tax concession and um moderating negative gearing because the concessions are too generous for the long-term sustainability of home price growth in Australia.

[00:15:00]Um Do you think Sorry to interrupt, but do you think that it will actually have it have a like a slowing of of property prices?

[00:15:07]>> I think it'll have a marginal slowing in the long term, but not significant. The Treasury's own estimates that even if they um abolish the CGT completely, I think or reduce it by a a large amount, the impact to property prices would be something like 5% over 5 years. So, not really too much, but it's hard to isolate one particular policy and say, you know, this is the reason for why housing is unaffordable.

[00:15:31]There is There is no sort of one policy that that has caused a problem. It's been a multitude of problems. Continuous under-building in Australia for the past 10 to 15 years, very high rates of immigration at a time that supply is constrained. These types of policies like negative net like negative gearing capital gains tax that have encouraged more investment into housing.

[00:15:51]If we look around the world in other countries, it tends to be this view that housing is more of an essential rather than investment. In Australia, housing is still seen to be more of an investment vehicle. And it's worked for people. Absolutely. That's why I think it's still this expectation like we love housing, we want to invest in it. But I think we need to move our minds away slowly into housing as an essential good for everyone rather than an investment. And we need to think about other sources of investment. The good news for for the future generations Shavuan, like you were talking about, is people's super balances will be a big provider of their retirement in the future if you have a PAYG salary. I'm not talking about people who have their own small small businesses or are trying to pay them their super themselves, but super is a fantastic system that we have. It's now 12% of your income, and that compound interest effect that you get from just investing in the share market every single day, every single month, whatever it is, it can actually make a big difference to your wealth when you retire.

[00:16:53]And so, I'm keen to talk about the share market. What's your take? We've obviously got all of this geopolitical uncertainty.

[00:16:59]We've seen like if you look at the the 10-year returns, we're running well over our sort of long long long-term averages.

[00:17:08]It seems that the market is almost like decoupled from the typical sort of economic cycle where it's like every 10 or so years we see a major correction when the correction happens the governments actually take their medicine and and then stuff gets quite bad you know for a for a little while not just like for the three weeks that it happened in COVID until the government splashed out the you know half trillion dollars or something like that.

[00:17:32]What's your take at like can the share market keep continuing to to to rise from here because it seems to have some good steam behind it.

[00:17:40]I see I see two main factors that are driving share markets continuously higher and I've been shocked at the resilience that markets have had in the current energy crisis. Now oil prices have doubled since their pre-war levels and the share market fell 8%. Now it's bounced back up again to near record highs and it just doesn't really seem to care despite the fact that we have no oil flowing through the Strait of Hormuz which controls 20% of global oil supply. That's shocking to me but anyways, the two main reasons that I see for why I think share markets have been resilient. The first one is the tech story. It's the tech sugar hit.

[00:18:16]40% of the US share market is now derived by the tech sector which is investing massively into AI data centers. We just had some updates that I was looking at before I came here about how much investment's going into AI from companies like Meta, Google, Microsoft.

[00:18:35]It's billions hundreds of billions of dollars. The US government is taking a stake in these in these companies. If we didn't have the tech sector AI revolution that we have right now, I don't markets would not be at these ultra supersonic levels like they are in the US and Australia has underperformed the US because we haven't had that tech exposure. We've still done all right but we haven't had the same returns as the US has had. The second reason I think is now markets are sort of have a bit of moral hazard in regards to central banks and the government and that was a term that came out I think during the GFC basically that you sort of expect the government or some sort of government authority to bail you out when you need it. And we saw that during the pandemic, the team Australia moment or you know, the team US moment, what it whatever you want to call it, the central bank and the government banding together to support households, to support consumers doing throwing the kitchen sink at everything.

[00:19:36]And I think there is now this expectation that the central banks will come and rescue us. They will do quanti- they'll do quantitative easing, they'll do whatever is necessary to stop a recession, maybe not a recession happening, but to stop a severe financial market decline. But I guess also in saying that we also have a short-term memory when we think about share market performance. Um cast your mind back to a year ago when we had the liberation day announcement.

[00:20:03]April 1st, I think it was when Trump came out with his you know, Moses tablet about the rates of tariffs that are going to be charged on other countries.

[00:20:11]The share market fell by 20% peak to trough. Over a period of a few weeks, it wasn't just in one day.

[00:20:16]But then it bounced back up again and we forgot about it. Share market volatility is really normal. It's abnormal if we don't see volatility. In in any normal year, the share market can easily fall at 10% peak to trough. I think we will have another 15 to 20% decline later this year because it's it's a midterm year because it's a midterm year in the US.

[00:20:35]And the investor psyche is sort of gets addicted to the highs, but it forgets that actually shares can have very big draw downs, too. And do you think for people that are thinking about investing today, do you think that they should be looking to maybe take advantage of the the AI or is that like a an area to try to avoid in their portfolios? Like what are smart investors doing now? You can't avoid it anymore. If you just have an exposure to something what's called the MSCI World Index. So it's um it's basically just a world index of different share markets and you just invested in like a global weighted average. The US would be like 60% of that just because of its dominance uh, in terms of market capitalization. So, you can't avoid the tech sector even if you just invest in the US. I mean, most of your portfolio is going to be in tech. So, having that exposure, I think makes sense in the in the in the next few years because tech still does have further upside, I'd say. Of course, there are issue there are concerns that the um, share prices are overvalued maybe for specific companies, but if you are just looking to get some diversification and just invest in in in different countries, you'll get exposure just through investing like like that into the US or even into a world index.

[00:21:52]So, given that your is this a prediction 15 to 20% down later on this year potentially? Yep. Um, what how what would you say to people who are investing in the market at the moment? Um, one I'd say if you are investing in shares, be prepared for volatility. You have to expect that prices are not going to continue to go up in a straight line. I have we have this really great chart which shows one-year returns in the ASX 200 and then like a rolling 10-year rolling 20-year.

[00:22:26]If you just look at the the one-year number, it zigzags completely up and down all the time. You can't look at the daily movements. I mean, unless you're actually, you know, taking this very seriously and share trading is like your full-time job which is very hard to do and try to make money off that, but you need to have a long-term perspective on these things.

[00:22:47]Um, and you need to be prepared to ride out the volatility and share markets unfortunately have that which is I guess why people like property because you don't you don't see that volatility on a daily basis, but if you and and property prices just in Australia haven't historically had that volatility. Mhm.

[00:23:04]One of the things that we say with our clients is like you need to make sure that you're not investing money that you you can't afford to leave there for 7 to 10 years or more. So, we see sometimes people, particularly when they first come to us and they cuz investing so easy now with like micro-investing apps and stuff that they might have that money, you know, the money for the kids' school fees and it's just going into an account and they don't realize how closely it's tied to markets or what the downside um risk is, but it's like it's important at any time in when the markets aren't above their historical sort of long-term averages, but um I think at this point in time it's like make sure that that money is there that can be there for the long term and then doesn't matter if the markets go down you 10 or 15 or 20 or 50% then you just let them let them ride and continue. We always get concerns um from from advisors when when markets are falling usually by more than 10%. You know, we need to talk to them. Um but when the market's up 10% no one cares cuz they think, "Oh, this is great. Like this is Yeah. This this is this is normal." So, when the market does have those big falls, I'd say it's too late to do anything. Don't freak out. Don't take your money out when markets have fallen by 10% cuz you're just taking it out at the bottom.

[00:24:13]Unless you absolutely need it, of course. So, when you go into when we're talking about retirement and you're talking to people who are who are close that you want to have, you know, at least a year's worth of income that you can support. One to two years actually probably um because markets do tend tend to go through these periods of volatility, but have a long-term point of view if you are a younger investor.

[00:24:36]And a lot of our our listeners and and definitely a lot of our client base is sort of like higher income uh individuals and and families. What do you think? What should they be thinking about given the current climate and what's going on in the the economy in in Australia and investment and property markets as well? I think sometimes it's good to turn down the noise and there's a lot of negative noise out there. If you if you listen to the media, you'd sort of think everything's going to come crashing down. And yet share markets have just continued to rise. There's a lot of concern about the Australian property market, too. I mean, my own personal view is that property price growth is going to be more moderate nationally, but there are so many different markets within that. So, if you want to keep investing in property, find the market that's right for you.

[00:25:21]From my point of view, I think Melbourne has good upside in the next few years because it's had such poor performance in recent years. So, markets tend to go through cycles. There's that famous saying, "History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes." Yeah. And this will happen in the property market, too. For example, Brisbane has had a huge amount of outperformance. It's hard to see the same level of outperformance continuing for Brisbane because it's seen a lot of that interstate migration come through or in even into Queensland overall. And that interstate migration story has probably passed its peak, I'd say, or it's going to to plateau out. So, find those markets that work for you. And if you are um if you are sort of in that middle-income group and and you want to build your wealth, it's it's it's so much easier to do that now through things like trading apps um and share market investing into things like exchange-traded funds. It they they are quite liquid, so if you need to take your money out, then you can do that. Um you don't need to wait. It's It's It's not like a closed-end end of fund. Be prepared for volatility, but it's a good way to build your wealth because you get and hopefully the capital growth. And even though we have all this bad news around us, have a long-term point of view. Even if we do have a downturn or recession, if you're investing for 5 to 10 years, that should be enough time to ride out those cycles. And start investing for your kids, as well.

[00:26:41]I saw this thing the other day that said that in the period after an Olympics that typically the property market goes up by like 40% or something in the in those in those cities. Yeah, they they said that a lot of places will go up before as well, but actually the biggest growth is afterwards as well. And so, that just sort of made me think that we have a lot of conversations with clients and they're they're they're thinking about um their whether it's investment returns or their property investments or or something. And often people are are sort of looking for the one thing that's that's having the impact. Is you probably Well, obviously you've got a a lot more sort of experience in in in understanding sort of how multifaceted it is in terms of the different things that that actually impact these prices.

[00:27:26]Can you maybe talk to that a little bit?

[00:27:28]Well, that's a great example. I mean, if you just um took that example and thought, "Well, Queensland property market is going to be doing great after the Olympics." Uh but it's already had such a strong period of outperformance now since since COVID really. So, you do have to look at so many different factors when you're thinking about investing in I guess for property in in particular.

[00:27:53]In Australia, we tend to see these longer-term cycles across different states. So, for example, in Western Australia, the mining boom obviously played a huge role. And in Queensland as well, the mining boom played a huge role in impacting property prices there. And then Perth, for example, did nothing for 10 years. In the past 2 years, it's started booming again. So, watch out for some of those longer-term cycles. It might not be one particular thing like interest rates driving the property market um like even in the last, you know, few years, well, last year we had some um Sorry, even in the period of interest rate hikes, which we had over 2022 and 2023, we became negative on property prices, but prices only fell by about 10% because there were other factors keeping prices elevated. Um things like undersupply was a huge problem in Australia, so that kept property prices high.

[00:28:43]So, it's as an investor, I think you need to be aware of the all the different things going on.

[00:28:48]>> literally dozens and hundreds of different things.

[00:28:50]>> Yeah, and and don't pinpoint one particular thing that may or may not, you know, make make or break that investment. Maybe for a company it's a bit different. Like if you're looking if you're investing in a specific company or a stock and and they've had like a breakthrough or they've had an IPO. I mean, that's sort of a little bit different, but >> SpaceX is happening this will our winter their summer.

[00:29:12]I know. I heard that Musk has got he's got to put a million people on Mars and then then he gets a trillion-dollar bonus.

[00:29:18]>> [laughter] >> That's he's got it's like a it's like a million people on Mars, a seven-and-a-half trillion-dollar market cap which just seems insane. And there was one other thing which I can't remember off the top of my head. And if he does those three things, he gets a trillion dollars. If he doesn't do any of them, he gets 54,000 dollars. He'll be fine either way. Get in on that IPO, I reckon. He's clearly motivated. Not financial advice, by the way.

[00:29:40]>> [laughter] >> But that 40% increase on property in Queensland already. Have you seen that something like that play out before?

[00:29:49]Like so you're looking at the Queensland or Brisbane, say, the property market's really had a pretty incredible run.

[00:29:57]Um the Olympics, when are they? 2032?

[00:30:00]I think so. 2032 and then to have another 40% increase off the back of that. I mean, to me that just seems very unlikely unless, you know, all our population suddenly moves into into Queensland.

[00:30:12]>> [laughter] >> I mean, we have seen that interstate migration. It's interesting, usually the the migrants when they come in they move into into Sydney and Melbourne and then they move to other places or we see a lot of affordability challenges in the last few years people moving out of Sydney and Melbourne basically. Although Melbourne is looking very affordable now. One of the most affordable cities in the country.

[00:30:32]Um I mean, it's hard to see that sort of boom again happening for Brisbane. Maybe broader Queensland regional areas, but I mean, that's just that's just my opinion, not not not financial advice.

[00:30:45]>> [laughter] >> It is hard to say, but like you say, there's so many factors that that influence them, but definitely an interesting start, for sure.

[00:30:51]Uh Diana, thank you so much for sharing all of your insights. My last question for you, if you could go back to your 21-year-old self and give your give 21-year-old you one piece of money advice, what would it be?

[00:31:04]I remember being in an interview when I was a grad when I was looking for grad jobs, and it was with Goldman Sachs, and it was for investment banking, and I didn't know what investment banking really was. I didn't have a family that was into finance. Um they were all medical.

[00:31:18]And uh they go to me, like, what what do you invest in? And I was like, oh, nothing. I like economics. Like, we can talk about economics. They're like, well, why are you here for an investment banking job? I was like, I don't know. I just applied for anything I could. Like, no one's advising me. No one's telling me what to do. I don't know. I'm just applying for anything that I see. They they were quite tough and mean on me. I cried after that interview. I remember being at uni afterwards and and I'm crying. But that did make me think, you know, I should and I still keep going back to that moment cuz I I think I should have started just putting money into the share market then. It would have been so easy. Put $100 a month. I do that for my kids now. I put um $100 a month or so for them or more if if I can every single month, and it just compounds. The compound interest phenomenon, which was um a a Don Stammer a an an economist in Australia, he said that was one of like the magical things in the world is compound interest, and it can do wonders, especially cuz because the interest just compounds on your original investment, and then it keeps increasing. So, I would just say to myself to start investing early because I only really started investing when I started working at AMP Capital, which was only 10 years ago really, outside of super and everything. I never really knew what to do. No one told me what to do, and that's how I found out because I was a working in it, but it's much easier to do now and I probably also said to myself maybe buy some Bitcoin.

[00:32:43]>> [laughter] >> That's why is why is not advice there Diana? Don't buy Bitcoin now.

[00:32:49]>> [laughter] >> Thank you so much again for sharing your insights.

[00:32:55]Guys on that note leave it there for today. Thanks Diana. Thank you so much.

[00:32:58]Bye for now.