Cardwell delivers a blunt indictment of institutional cowardice, exposing how political leaders have traded public safety for ideological convenience. His analysis highlights a dangerous leadership vacuum where performative empathy has replaced the decisive action required to protect citizens from extremism.
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Peter Cardwell | 29-Apr-26Added:
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across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk terror on the streets of London. in a shameful and dreadful anti-semitic attack. Thankfully, no one killed, but two people seriously injured and indeed the chief rabbi within the last few minutes has named Nakman Mosh Ben Chayasa and Mosha Benalia in a statement on social media. They were the victims of this knifeman. There is so much to talk about. Why is this happening? How is it happening on the streets? We know the reasons. And what are the authorities going to do about it? They have shamefully shamefully allowed the atmosphere to exist that has allowed these attacks to happen not just in London in Manchester and this attack today in fact about 300 yards from where those ambulances were burned the uh arson attack there. We'll get reaction from right across the political spectrum. We'll talk to Kirst's former communications director. We'll talk to people on the scene including our reporter Samara Gil. I want your reaction too. 0344991000.
Clare Maltton and Sean Hecky on the debate desk today. We'll also talk about mental health in young people.
Apparently, uh twothirds of them are going to have a mental diagnosed mental health condition by 2030. Tony Blair says ADHD and autism shouldn't entitle you to benefits. What do you think about that one? We'll talk about the fact there aren't going to be any hereditary peers left in light of what the king has done. Actually, do hereditary things perhaps work in this country? We'll talk about the immigration surge. We'll talk about a number of issues, but our main story tonight absolutely what has happened in North London at Golders Green. I stand full square as I always have with our Jewish friends and neighbors. We've got to get this sorted.
We've got to make sure that they know right now from this time in this place that I stand with them and that I know the vast vast majority of our viewers and listeners stand with the people of Golders Green and Jewish people in this country and indeed around the world.
There's so much to talk about this evening. Please give me a ring and let me know your thoughts. 0344991000 is the number to call. You can text me 872 with the words talk in your text.
You can tweet me at talktv. Follow me at Peter Cardwell. You can send me a WhatsApp text message. Get it off your chest in a text message or get it off your chest in a voice message. Less than a minute, please. We'll play those out.
Say what you want to say and we will play it between now and 10. You can also give me a ring as I say on 0344991000.
So much to discuss particularly on Golders Green. Stay with us here on talk.
Well, let's get reaction from so many of the senior leaders, so-called leaders of this country who are meant to be preventing attacks like this. Firstly, Sir Mark Roelly, the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. This is what he said.
Uh we're just going to hear from Sir Mark Roule in a second. He's the commissioner of the uh Metropolitan Police and he has been coordinating the police's effort after this knifeman stabbed two people earlier on this afternoon. Uh there have been so many people responding to this, so many politicians uh on the scene. Actually, Julia a little bit earlier on was with the Shadow Home Secretary Chris Phelp.
We'll talk uh we'll hear what he has to say in just a second. Uh Mark Roelly first. the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police.
>> Our counterterrorism policing teams have already formally declared this incident as a terrorist as a terrorist attack.
It's another horrendous act of violence directed against our Jewish communities which follows a series of arson attacks in recent weeks.
It will rightly shock and anger people across London and in the immediate communities and across the country.
My first thoughts are with the two British Jews who were attacked whilst going about their daily lives which they should be able to do freely and safely in their own local community.
Let me say a few words about what this was. Let me be clear.
This is an attack on one community. An attack on one community is an attack on all London's communities.
That is Sir Mark Roelly, the man who has led the Metropolitan Police for a number of years now, particularly the response to anti-Semitic incidents and indeed facilitating those uh protests that happen in London every two weeks. What did he think was going to happen when the police don't intervene? When they don't stop people shouting anti-Semitic slogans, when they don't stop people carrying uh carrying posters supporting Hamas and Hisbala, what did he think was going to happen? Sir Mark, show us some leadership. And even as he was speaking there, you maybe heard it in the background, people shouting at him, saying he should resign. Sarah Sackman, the Labour MP who is the MP for that area, people calling on her to resign as well. Let's hear what Sadik Khan, the mayor of London said.
>> I've lived in London all my life. Uh there's been anti-semitism uh faced by Londoners throughout my life and actually for the last few decades. I've never seen the sort of fear my friends, colleagues, and neighbors are feeling because they are Jewish. I've never experienced uh this level of attacks on Jewish people across our country which today two Jewish Londoners are fighting for their uh lives.
People are scared. Jewish people are scared. Parents are scared. Children are scared. Teachers are scared. It cannot be right. There simply by virtue of a school being a Jewish school, it requires additional protection. Simply by virtue of a place of worship being a synagogue, it requires additional protection. So by virtue of people being Jewish, there needs to be volunteers who represent and act and work in Shamrim and the Community Security Trust from city hall. We're going to carry on supporting the Jewish community, carry on investing in the CST and in our uh police. This must be a wakeup call.
>> Sorry. Is he on another planet? Did you listen to what he was saying there?
Sadik Khan. Sir Khan, knight of the realm who's mayor of London. He doesn't seem to realize that he's responsible for the police in London. He is the police and crime commissioner for London as well as mayor of London. He's saying, "Oh, this is dreadful. These things are happening. Things are terrible. It's a bit of a wakeup call." Why did haven't you had a wakeup call in the last two and a half years? Why do you need a wakeup call right now? There's a wakeup call every two weekends when these hate marches happen in London where he just he's he's not engaged. He's not attached to the matrix. He doesn't believe and he doesn't seem to say at any point that he is responsible. He needs to sort this out. It is outrageous. Kirst spoke in the comments earlier, the prime minister.
>> It is deeply concerning uh to uh everyone in this house. There is now a police um investigation and I think we all need to do everything we can to support that um investigation and be absolutely clear in our determination uh to deal with any of these uh offenses the like of which we've seen too much uh recently.
Also, Chris Phelp, the shadow home secretary down at the scene was interviewed by my colleague Julia Hartley Brewer earlier. Let's have a little look at that.
>> What needs to be done so that this never happens again?
>> Yeah. Well, it's the second time I've been here on the streets of Golders Green in just a few weeks uh following the appalling Hatsola ambulance attack not long ago. And the truth is, Julia, as you say, the time for warm words is over. It is time for action. That needs to start with a massive police presence in areas like Gold's Green to protect the Jewish community. It means using counterterrorism surveillance powers to identify and disrupt anti-semitic plots.
Iran has been behind much of this. It means urgently banning the IRGC.
>> And I have said to the home secretary, my opposite number, that we would support the government to pass emergency legislation to do that. It can be done in about a week. And we should also be expelling Iranian diplomats and spies who have been coordinating this activity. There are also too many people in this country spouting anti-semitic hatred. Any foreign citizen in this country who expresses anti-semitic views, support for extremism or support for terrorism should frankly be deported. There is no place for that in this country. And nor should we tolerate marches on our streets calling for jihad and inifada or the destruction of Israel. It simply fans It simply fans the flames of hatred. And I've had enough of that on our streets.
The shadow home secretary speaking to Julie Hartley Brewer live well live earlier on at the scene uh replay of that. Let's speak to Rabbi Jonathan Remain. He is head of the rabbitic board of Great Britain. Jonathan, thank you for joining me this afternoon. A busy day for you and a horrendous day for Britain's Jews and particularly for Golders Green. Tell me your reaction.
>> Well, first of all, let me say thank you to you for your statement at the beginning of this program where you said you stand uh completely with the Jewish community. 100% is more words and and important words.
So, so thank you for that. And yeah, I mean everyone is deeply upset, doubly upset because not only is this a horrendous incident in itself uh but it seems to be now part of a pattern, you know, as you said with they had the ambulances torched, there was attack on the Kenton synagogue and the Finchley synagogue both in North London. It's almost like a sort of copycat thing that's going on and that's really dangerous. Do you remember the time when the first person uh hijacked an airline or the first road rage and then they suddenly they became copycat and commonplace and we've really got to make sure this doesn't happen. I would suggest three things. Uh partly what you've said already. In other words, the police do need to step up uh and ban anti-Jewish uh slogans and chants.
Anti-Jewish is is racism. So if you're against racism, you should be against anti-Jewish slogans. Uh secondly, I regulating social media where a lot of the poison and the hatred is uh is pumped out. Uh governments talk about it all the time, but so far we've seen nothing. And the third thing is some of these attacks come from people within the Muslim community. Um uh and I think imams perhaps can play a positive role here by giving sermons at their Friday services. Uh making the point that you can think what you like about Israel, but it's nothing to do with British Jews. You can have your own opinion about Israel and what's going on in the Middle East, but that's the other side of the Mediterranean. Don't import it here. Don't target British Jews.
>> When you heard what had happened today, were you shocked or did you just think actually this is a horrendous thing? Of course it is. But given everything else that has happened, Jonathan, given Heaton Park, given the uh so many attacks, the horrible low-level and indeed very high level hatred, anti-Semitic attacks, you mentioned the ambulances there, which was just a few hundred yards away from what has happened here today. Uh this is this is a pattern. It's escalating and we have the mayor of London, I I expect you heard that clip, talking about it as if it's not really his problem. I find that astonishing.
>> Yes. Yes. I mean, my reaction when I heard the news uh was here we go again.
Uh it's it's now what three or three three or three three or four attacks in in in North London within about what a week or a fortnight. And that's why it's so important that the people don't have fine words, but they take a real action.
Uh like the um the shadow secretary were just saying some kind of legislation needs to come through. I mean, if if this was um attacks on black or brown or or other communities, you know, the whole country would be in uproar and something would be done absolutely immediately. We need to do the same thing.
>> What What is it, Jonathan? Why is it that people You're you're in uproar. I'm in uproar. Our viewers and listeners are in uproar. I can see the the phones going and we'll take as many calls as we can between now and 10:00. Why is it, Jonathan, why is it that this is somehow acceptable that as you correctly say it was black people, brown people, gay people, Muslims, whatever, the country would be up in arms? The prime minister would have been there already. The prime minister isn't there yet. He says he'll go as soon as he can. Why is it that somehow anti-semitism, which is racism, as you correctly say, is tolerated in our society?
>> It's a big puzzle. There's no logical explanation. There's emotional explanation. Maybe because most Jews in this country are of of of white background, maybe somehow people don't think of it as racism, but it is racism.
Um and and it needs to be treated just as um uh fervently as we would uh any other form of discrimination. If you don't like discrimination or prejudice, then you should be against anti-semitic attacks. It's very simple, and people need to look in the mirror and say, "What are my values?"
>> Jonathan, thank you very much. I know you've got to go. You're uh busy.
There's so many uh different audiences you need to speak to and you absolutely are appreciated here on this program. It it is just absolutely horrendous what has happened. I just want to take us through the day a little bit. Samara Gill is our reporter. She's at the scene. She's in Golders Green uh in London. Samara, good evening.
>> Hi, Peter. Great to be with you. Look, it's very impassioned here tonight and for good reason. There's just been a terrorist attack 100 meters from where I'm standing. I'm with Richard Ty who spoke in a very reverent way about just how he feels about what is going on. I mean what is going on Richard? This this cannot happen again.
>> Well regrettably it is happening almost daily now because of weak gutless leadership over the last few years that has allowed this mild scourge of anti-semitism to be treated almost as normal. And I gave a very heartfelt speech just now. We have to say th this enough is enough and there has to be action. We've got to stop the hate marches, lock, stock, and barrel. We've got to ban the IRGC. We've got to ban the Muslim Brotherhood. And we've got to say to anybody who thinks that anti-semitism is sort of imagined, like Zack Palansky, for example, who had the cheek to put out uh a tweet earlier. I mean, you know, this man and the Green Party, you believe that this is normal.
and they are riddled. They're now the anti-semitism party. It's disgusting and the Jewish community is our community and their safety is our safety and we have to make it absolutely clear robust strong leadership from the prime minister from the home secretary from Samar Rowley boss of the Met police and this has to stop because otherwise uh it's going to be it's it's almost being normalized and it's terrifying and we're sick of it. Enough's enough. You recognize Britain? I mean, are Jews safe on these streets?
>> Stand with us?
>> Tragically, I think many of us cannot believe what has happened to the United Kingdom. And it's happened because of weak leadership. Just after October the 7th, I called for those marches to be banned because they were hatefilled, inciting violence, and anti-semitic. I was right. The boss of the Met police was wrong. The then home secretary and prime minister were wrong. They should have been banned. They weren't. And this is the consequence.
>> Peter Cardwell's just asked in my ear, what would reform do if they got in power to stop this anti-semitism day one, what would be going on in order to make sure that this isn't rife on the street?
>> Those three things, ban the hate marches, uh ban the IGC, ban the Muslim Brotherhood. Anybody who is guilty of any of these crimes, the deterrent, the sanction has to be so long. So, uh become a proper deterrent. And these uh foreign nationals, many of whom are committing these horrific crimes, they have to be deported. And I ask a simple question. The alleged the alleged attacker today, Sir Mark Rowley said, had a history of serious violence and mental illness. What on earth is a man like that allowed to roam the streets?
You know, why isn't he sectioned? Why is he allowed to come around here amongst the Jewish community? This is madness.
This is gutless. It's feeble.
>> Sir Mark Rowley was here just a couple hours ago. People shouted, "Shame on you." He had a terrible reception.
Should he resign?
>> You need to look at himself uh I think you know long and hard in the mirror. He had the opportunity to ban the hay marches. He made the decision, the conscious decision not to. And what we are seeing day in day out, firebombs, stabbings, is a consequence of that failed leadership.
>> That's Richard Ty, uh, deputy leader of Reform UK, and he is not mincing his words when it comes to his support for the Jewish community tonight. Very, very strong. Thank you, Richard. I really appreciate it. Samara, can you tell me a little bit just about Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
>> Go ahead.
>> Sorry. I've just got a local resident a R A R A R A R A R A R A R A R A R A R A R A R A behind me. He just wanted to say a few words to you, Peter, about how he's feeling as a Jewish person in 2026.
Being a local resident for 20 years now, I feel very unsafe, especially with all the last few months uh at Salah and then in Kenton Shag and then in the in all the other events have happened. We feel very unsafe. We can't even go into our own synagogues to pray and people getting stabbed mainly because the the the attackers are not getting the proper consequences. That's why they it's attracting more attackers and also because of the marches which are happening weekly that's definitely um adding hate to the local community.
>> Do you feel safer in Gold's Green or would you feel safer in Israel because a lot of people are moving there. A lot of people are saying that they feel under attack in this country. definitely safer in Israel, but um worldwide it's anti-semitism and it's we thought we were safe in England, but at the moment we're definitely not safe.
>> But anything about >> Well, there you go. That's currently the state of Britain in 2026. Peter, this is what has happened when you allow anti-semitism to run rife on the streets of this country. It has turned into a cesspit and it is just horrendous. But on a positive note, there is a lot of support behind me for the community tonight.
>> Samara, thank you. There are so many people there. I know uh Samara has been there for the last few hours. Julia Hartley Brewer was there earlier and so many members of the community. So many politicians going down there as well.
Sarah Sachman, the Labour MP has been there. She's been heckled. No sign of the prime minister yet. He says he'll go as soon as he can. Well, where is he? Uh why is he not there? Why is he not on the streets? And where is city Khan? I I would imagine there would be a lot of people who have quite a lot to say to city Khan certainly and he should listen to those people. He should listen if they are heckling him. They should listen to he should listen to them certainly. Uh just a reminder the two British men two Jewish British men have been stabbed in Goldish Green in North London. The Metropol Police formally declaring a terrorist incident. They're working with security services uh to find out exactly what has happened. They have a 45-year-old suspect who also attempted to stab officers. According to police, he was tasered and arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. The victims are 76 and 34 and they've been named, I'm not sure which one is the 76y old, which was the 34 year old, but the chief rabbi has named the victims of the attack as Nakman Mosh Bencher and Mosha Benalia in a statement on social media.
He's called uh hope hoping as we all do that they recover swiftly in hospital.
Peter's endors it and is the first call of the evening 0344991000.
Peter, you're very welcome to the program. What would you like to say?
>> Hello. Um, I would say good evening, but I'm afraid it isn't.
>> You're right.
>> U, the problem we've got is that we have a prime minister that wants to ruin the country. He does not want the Palestinians and the marches stopped. He wants a vote.
And the problem we've got is that it is going to go on. As far as he's concerned, look, there's 250,000 Jewish people in this country. As far as he's concerned, what kind of a sizable vote is that to him?
>> Do you honestly think that is how cynically he is looking at this? Do you not think he cares at all, Peter?
>> He doesn't care at all. He doesn't care about this country. Neither does the Labor Party. They are completely a wash with their ideology and the poor Jewish people who were um helped as was said earlier in the afternoon into this country from persecution by the Nazis are now getting open anti-semitism on the streets as and and where is this going to end up and when we've got complete um conglomerations of um uh Muslim areas around the country.
Um I don't know, we don't know what is going on there. We don't know what kind of um terrorist cells are possibly uh being set up there. And as we're speaking on the phone, there's probably another bunch arriving on the beach in southern England and we are completely out of control. And the the Jewish people are being made to suffer and because nobody in the polit political arena can care a damn about them. They really are a negligible situation to them. And until we until this country gets off its gets stands on its own two feet and it decides to do something about the situation because this isn't going to end with the Jewish people if there were 250,000 less Jewish people in this country.
Who would they then start on?
>> Yeah. Look the you're absolutely right Peter. The Jewish people are the canary in the coal mine here. There are so many extremists, mainly Islamists, but there's so someone said to me earlier today, extremists hate two things. They hate Jewish people. They hate women. They're not happy with our western way of life. And there are so many things that are being tolerated right now that absolutely should not be. What I don't know if you you heard uh Khan earlier on in the in the program. I played a clip of what he said. To me, the mayor of London, the police and crime commissioner for London, for that is his job, seems to not be attached to the matrix. He doesn't seem to get this. He doesn't seem to understand that he is not a bystander. He is someone who has helped create a situation by allowing those marches and by allowing so much anti-semitism that has happened. He would deny that of course, but I think he's wrong that we're in this situation, not just in London, but right across the United Kingdom and in many other countries too, but particularly here.
Yes. Well, we we all we can worry about at the moment is what's going on in the United Kingdom, but all we've got is Star saying, "Oh, I'm going I'm arranging a Cobra meeting. Oh, it's it's disgraceful. We shouldn't be having it."
you know um and um >> and when they say Peter sorry to interrupt you but just on that exact note when they say there's no place for uh anti-semitism in this country there is a place there's a very big place for it because they have not shut it down they have not realized that their actions are actually allowing this to flourish and that's what drives me crazy that's it's this lack of acknowledgement that they're actually part of the problem >> and we have a situation which are completely correct with. But we have a situation where by we have a small tiny group of people as a percentage in this country who get along and do a decent day's work who contribute to this country probably above their uh kilter and and um they don't do any harm to anybody and they're just getting knifed on the streets openly. And what's going to happen next? It's not if, it's just when.
>> Well, it it is. And there are so many >> surprising that everybody's everybody in that part of the world is scared, stiff, um about what's going on.
>> Are you scared, Peter? You're I think I remember you told me previously, are you are you Jewish yourself?
>> Um well, I I certainly am.
>> You don't have to say if you are or not.
>> Uh yeah, I certainly am and and very proud to be. Um but I am I'm afraid to to tell anybody else who um is on this situation that I refuse to be scared.
Yeah.
>> Because of terrorism. I was I wasn't I it's it's no different to me terrorists.
They you should never be scared. You should never back down. Um you're letting them win if you do. Um we had the IRA in London um uh uh many years ago and I refused to stop going into London because they were bombing. I will not allow terrorists to stop my way of life. And I'm I can tell you this that if you happen to be in Israel where they are looking at um potential terrorism on their doorstep every single day of the week of every single year. It does not stop them doing anything at all. In fact, it's the reverse. They are completely um completely tunnneled visioned into creating a normal, decent, good society and deter and determined to do so. I've I've been there on two occasions, most recently in September. I saw that determination. I saw that resolve. Peter, great call. So much common sense. Ring me anytime and thank you. Susan's in Hartford 0344991000.
Susan, you're very welcome to the program. What would you like to say?
>> First of all, I'd just like to thank you again for always being on the right side and always standing up for us because, as you know, we're a tiny community and at the moment we feel so so alone. You know, I find it really incredible that, you know, when I'm I'm with my non-Jewish friends, nobody ever says anything like, you know, really sorry about what's going on and, you know, and, you know, we we stand with you. Um what I wanted to say to you was that actually on the 10th of May there's another anti-semitism march and it'd be an amazing opportunity for the silent majority of this country to actually stand with us because I know that you know some of your presenters went. I don't know whether you went on the last march or >> I didn't go on that one. I've been to a number of of uh events. The one that I found uh most incredibly moving I went to uh was in Trafalar Square the second anniversary of the uh 7th of October attacks in Israel. That was incredibly moving and I spoke actually at a at an event against against anti-semitism not a million miles away from Goulders Green actually a couple of months ago but listen I'm going to try to go uh on the 10th of May and I'm going to encourage people near the time to do so and thank you for your warm words Susan >> but what I wanted to also say is that if people are worried about it thinking it's going to be like any of these hate marches as you know it isn't I mean it's full of love and >> British values and and the fact that we love this country but we just feel very alone. The other thing I wanted to tell you was that there is actually a Nova Festival um exhibition coming to London which I really think would be great for young people to go to so they can re I mean I know you went to Israel and I know you saw the horror of what happened and this is coming to London and they're going to be survivors speaking and it's something that young people instead of getting on TikTok and seeing all the rubbish that they see can see >> actually go there and see that.
Absolutely. Susan, would you would you do me a favor? We've got to go to a break but would you do me a favor? stay on the line. Matt or James, the producers, is going to talk to you. Send me the details of those two um things that you've just mentioned there. I'll tweet them out and if people want to look on my Twitter, Peter Cardwell, I'll do it at the end of the program. They can see the details. But Susan, listen, thank you for that and thanks for your warm words as well. We'll go to a break now and we'll be back on the debate desk in just a second. Sean Hickeyi and Clare Maldon will give us their verdict on the events of the day.
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Olivia M.
And they sent us a picture that made me feel so ashamed. We look like hoarders.
>> Chris Marshall.
>> Hey, I'm actually recovering from an accident right now.
>> You've landed loose today, haven't you?
>> Yeah. Don't shake the arm, Chris. Too much.
>> You're with Danny Bole, who's like the maddest director ever. He's got so much energy. He's like, >> across the UK, on DAB+, on your smart speaker, on your smart TV, and on your side.
This is talk.
Well, thank you to the viewer who has already sent me the information about the Never Again uh uh Twitter account, which is about the Nova Festival exhibition that's coming to East London for 6 weeks for the 20th of May as part of an international tour to tell the story of the 413 people massacred and 44 taken hostage from the site on the 7th of October, 2023. I've been to that site. I promise you, I got back on the on the bus uh on the coach that we were being brought around on after about 20 minutes. I just it was so emotional. Uh it was just absolutely dreadful re completely innocent young Jewish people and the kind of horror uh that they faced has visited us on the streets of London today. So thank you to the viewer who has done that. Jeff has been in touch with a voice note on the attack.
Let's hear what he has to say.
>> Hi Peter, thank you first of all for standing up for on the radio for the Jewish community. Absolutely appalling what's happened again today. And how much is enough? That's the question I want. How much is enough for these people to start acting? Not with silly platitudes from from the prime minister, the ver just how much is enough before someone takes it seriously that we have a massive anti-semitism problem in this country which I am ashamed of at this point in time.
>> Well, thank you for that Jeff. Uh Debbie's been in touch to say I have no words regarding golders green. Why oh why we seem to be reliving 1939 to 45.
Uh the Jewish community are so kind, quiet, peaceful. Please leave them alone. I was in London on Saturday and there were proud Jewish people going about their business. I was in Jialter two weeks ago, the same. They're lovely.
They should be allowed to be happy and live there in safety dayto-day. It is them and soon the Christians too. Uh says Debbie. Another person says two-tier policing in action. Today we see a further result of it in Golders Green. Shame on Mark Roelly in that person's opinion. And another person, Jeffrey, says the UK, in his view, is undergoing an irreversible process of Islamification. It will never be safe for Jews again. Soon it won't be safe for any of us. The country is gone. I don't recognize it, says Jeffrey. Well, thank you for all your comments. I'm going to get to as many calls, text, tweets, and voice notes as I can between now and 10:00. Whatever you want to talk about, we will talk about in this program. We'll drop items. We'll change things. If you want to talk about it, we will talk about it because this is my show, but it's your show, too. I want to go to the debate desk. Clare Maldun, the political commentator is with us. Good evening, Cla. And Sean Hickey, who's head of content at Politics. Joe, great to see you in the studio. Both thank you for that. Claire, your reaction to what has happened in Golder Screen today.
>> Absolutely. I'm I'm dumbfounded and quite honestly lost for words. This vicious attack, uh, this vicious anti-Semitic attack, it was clearly targeted. Um, and it's beyond any recognition of normality for me that something like this would actually happen on the streets of London. It's as if London has not been warned time and time again that this would happen. And we see we we hear from Jews that their actual daytoday lives they are living in fear. School children heading to school.
Last was it two years ago, three years ago, children not wanting to wear their blazers on TfL for fear of being witness, you know, identified as and targeted for being Jewish.
>> Yeah. Where is the protection? And I mean people can say anything about free speech, free Palestine, free anything.
But I think that was a definite buildup.
And it was very difficult at the time for politicians of all sides to come out and say that these free Palestine marches shouldn't go ahead because of free speech. It's gone beyond that now.
This is definitive.
>> It's really interesting talking to you over the last few years about this. I know you and I come from slightly different perspectives on the Middle East issue and that's fine and the world will continue to turn and we'll continue to be friends, but I don't disagree with a single word you've just said.
>> Sean, your take on this?
>> No, I mean it's horrific. You know, we've had what was it? The Hatsella arson attack >> about 300 yards away.
>> Yeah. Yeah. This is just the latest in a long line of these sort of >> Manchester Heaton Park.
>> Yeah. Yeah. The list goes on.
>> How do how do we deal with this because this hasn't come out of nowhere. Well, the the question is how do the Labor government uh do anything more than just say we're going to stand with the Jewish community? You know, we've had with Wes Street and I think after the ambulance arson attack that he had government funding put straight away into giving new ambulances to the community. But there's only so much that money that lip service can do to this. I mean, you look at when it's uh can be a bad knock outside or whether we're Richard Ty outside. There is just an appearance of we show up, we say the government are not doing enough, but the government seem to be at sixes and sevens with it as well.
>> Yeah, it's it's interesting. And it's also it's also so many people who just hate Jews as well. You know, it is it is just so many people who are just anti-semitic in this country. And there is an atmosphere that has been allowed to exist, I would argue. I mean, it's been around forever. Anti-semitism is as old as time, but really since the 7th of October, it's got out of control. How do we get it back?
>> How do we get back from >> how do we how do we get back from the brink here?
>> I think there has to be open dialogue. I think part of the difficulty has been any criticism of the state of Israel and what the state of Israel is doing both in uh Iran on the back of America and indeed Lebanon. it was it's very difficult to allege any um criticism there without being branded anti-semitic in some in some parts. So therefore I think in order to discuss this openly and fully cards need to be laid well and truly on the table and we'll call it out for what it is >> and stop putting everyone in the one basket. I'm Catholic. I'm not an IRA terrorist. You know it's the same sort of thing.
>> And you're also from the UK. I'm not entirely responsible for every single thing that Kirst does and says. Exactly.
Natasha has been in touch and says people in this country seem to think that only people with brown skin are subject to racism. I worked in Hong Kong. I was spat at and called a white devil. So people any any color skin can be the subject of racism. People here must realize this is what is happening to the Jewish community. It is pure racism. It makes me feel sick that the government will spout platitudes but do very little. What has happened to our once safe country? My thoughts are with the Jewish community. Can we donate to their ambulance charity? You certainly can. Natasha, if you look that up online, I'm sure they'll be very happy to to get that.
>> It's also worth noticing noting that the ambulance that turned up from the the Jewish community actually tried to tend to the guy who who did the stabbings.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly.
>> I mean I mean what size of heart, what size of compassion, what size, you know, of doing their job professionally.
>> Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Especially one that had been attacked. Let's talk about policing and resources there. Mark Roelly, a clip from him, the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police.
This is what he said today.
If >> I was to have in London today, the resources to match the population that we had sort of 12, 15 years ago, we did best part of a billion pounds more.
We've got all these new threats. We got global instability. We've got communities that are more volatile.
>> That's Mark Roelly there, the Metropol Police Chief. That was actually in May uh 2025. Is this an issue of resources, Sean?
>> Well, I mean, you had today when he went up with Sarah Sackman where she got awful abuse, didn't she, at the at the scene of it, but Mark Rolley equally was facing calls to resign because of this attack. I mean, again, you can talk about resources, you can talk about um nipping things in the butt, but unless there's some sort of system in place to say this is how we're going to tackle this. this is how we're going to um come to the need of the Jewish community and fight against the anti-semitism that they're experiencing. We're not going to have any reassurance from from frankly frightened individuals in that community now you've seen however many attacks in the last while. It doesn't seem that enough's being done. Where do we go apart from developing some sort of strategy to tackle this?
>> Absolutely. And what should that strategy be? How do we get to the root of this? Well, I mean, the Metropolitan Police have got intelligence units within them. There there has been capacity in the past to preemptively strike on attacks in the United Kingdom.
U may may they be potential terrorist attacks or burglaries or whatever it might be. So, when you when you have attacks like this, you need to see is this person known to the police? I think the Metropolitan Police did say that he was known to the police as a violent individual >> and quite uncommonly they've came out and called this a terror attack or they're treating it as one, which isn't that's not the norm.
>> It usually takes a while for that while certainly. And so if that's so quick, then you would assume that this person is under watch by the police in the first place. So you have to you have to ask what has gone wrong in the policing of this situation.
>> Yeah, certainly. Uh Diana at Bedford's been in touch says a bit of a long text, but I'll read it out. Hi Peter, I've worked in schools for 25 years and believe me when I say the majority, not all of teachers or leftwing socialists with very worrying ideas have certain lessons or being English or British is taught to be shameful and although the religions are elevated to super status, the culture in a majority of schools and colleges and universities is toxic. If you have any kind of middle to right-wing views and I know for a fact some staff will be ostracized for thinking differently from these teachers and lectures ideologies. I've even worked with the school in the last five years where I was asked if I had any Jewish relatives that was asked by six a year six child. Schools and universities need to be severely vetted and held accountable. This is where anti-Semitic views fester. It's a great show says Diane in Bedford. Thank you for that.
Also nice words from Allison County Andrum on that as well. Joe in Norfolk says Sadiq and Kier Starmer are both in London. There should have been a golder screen before any politician especially Starmer as his own wife is Jewish. He will get so much backlash. If he does turn up though, says Joe in Norfolk.
This is a a perfectly good question. Uh city Khan Kier Starmer, here we are. It is 20. It is 18 minutes to 8. They're nowhere to be seen. Sean, >> in fairness to the prime minister who was chairing a Cobra meeting straight after the event. I think >> if you're looking at the inner workings of the Labor Party, perhaps he thought that the best course of action was to send the MP who is a minister in his cabinet to that area.
>> Surely the prime minister should be shown there's a course. and maybe he'll be there this evening. We'll see and we'll give that coverage of course if he is. Uh when you see that heckling that happens when you see that Sadi Khan for whatever reason is not there. What do you think Claire?
>> Well I couldn't think that my um opinion of Sadique Khan could go any lower but it's gone it's gone even lower. It's gone underground now. The man is not fit for purpose. the man is not fit to mayor this great city of >> I just want I just want to play the clip of city Khan again actually to hear not just what he said but the way he's saying it I really want people to listen to this and I'll get the views of Shan and Claire as well because Sadique Khan to my mind and maybe this is wrong and maybe I'm being unfair and please tell me if I am being unfair Clare and Sean he he seems to me as if he's not engaging with this it's almost as if that he doesn't realize or doesn't acknowledge that he is the police and crime commissioner for London as well as mayor of London. It seems as if this is sort of almost passing him by in a way that could be totally unfair. We'll hear what Clar and Sean have to say in a second and you're welcome to uh let me know as well. 03444991000.
This is what Sadi Khan, the mayor of London, Sir Khan has said today.
>> I've lived in London all my life. Uh there's been anti-semitism uh faced by Londoners throughout my life and actually for the last few decades. I've never seen the sort of fear my friends, colleagues, and neighbors are feeling because they are Jewish. I've never experienced uh this level of attacks on Jewish people across our country, which today two Jewish Londoners are fighting for their uh lives.
People are scared. Jewish people are scared. Parents are scared. Children are scared. Teachers are scared. It cannot be right. that simply by virtue of a school being a Jewish school, it requires additional protection. Simply by virtue of a place of worship, being a synagogue, it requires additional protection. Simply by virtue of people being Jewish, there needs to be volunteers who represent and act and work in Shamrim and the community security trust from city hall. We're going to carry on supporting the Jewish community, carry on investing in the CST and in our uh police, which must be a wakeup call.
>> A wakeup call. He talked about carrying on supporting the Jewish community. I'm would be questioned slightly how many Jewish people in London feel supported by city CAM. If you are one of them, please let me know. He talks about the community security trust which is a security organization which exists to help uh Jewish people and to keep them safe. Am I missing something here Sean?
Am I being unfair about how Khan was talking?
>> I mean he did strike quite a solemn figure I think in that uh clip but I would say that I disagree with him in it being a wakeup call. have been like this watch but well thank you cla he's in charge where is the kind of I realize this is awful he's told us a lot of what the problem is he's diag there's a lot of this in government where people diagnose the the an the problem but they don't say what the solution is cla >> no I know it and he was referring I mean can I even refer to all of these attacks as anecdotes but that's not minimizing anything that's happened I'm merely talking linguistically in his delivery of it was very ane It was very um you know it it lacked you know it lacked semnity and for me it lacked authenticity.
>> Yeah.
>> And this has all happened on his watch by virtue of his watch to use his own words. He needs a wakeup call.
>> Let's hear what Deborah is saying. She sent me a WhatsApp. What the hell is happening? I'm dumbfounded, says Deborah. Once again, the Jewish community targeted again. Justice will not be done. The fire attackers last week are on bail. Is that the full force of the law? Every country prescribes the IRGC except Britain.
>> Except Britain.
>> Starmer should now prescribe them as a mark of respect and a show of unity to our Jewish community. It would be a start, says Deborah. And we know there's this Iranianbacked group that has claimed responsibility. We don't know whether they're responsible or not, but they've claimed responsibility.
>> Doesn't matter. The IRGC should still be a prescribed organization.
>> There's absolutely no doubt about that.
Listen, the conser the course the conservatives didn't prescribe them either. I asked Betty Patel about that a few weeks ago. She said the context has changed. I mean, the context has changed, but the IRGC were um certainly uh being horrible to women, were repressing minorities, were killing people way before this conflict. Lots more to discuss on this and actually a number of other issues we'll go to on the debate desk as well with Claire and with Sean. Stay with us here on talk.
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So much reaction and we will we will return to this including in a few minutes time. Uh let me just read out a couple of messages. Penny and Essex says you would think that Starmer would want to stamp out anti-semitism but all he cares about is his own hide and his job.
He's disgraceful and as for can words fail me. in and crew says, "I still cannot get my head around the Metropolitan Police Chief Conipal blaming anti-semitism on the far left and far right. He did not have decency or honesty to even mention this properly." And uh just lots of people getting in touch. Uh Dal and Staling says, "I just want to highlight the two brave police officers for their actions today and reducing further risk to the public. I also want to highlight where is Star. He should have been in a car in there within minutes. Reform managed it lasting. I'm so sorry to all Jewish communities for everything you're put through. It shouldn't ever happen."
Well, that's a good message. But as Sean correctly points out and we're happy to clarify, you know, Starmer was in an emergency meeting. He says he'll get there as soon as he can. I hope he's there tonight. I hope he's there on our time. And if he is, we will of course acknowledge that and tell you exactly what is going on and any further developments in this story. For the next few minutes though, we're going to talk about the other stories of the day. and uh of course a really big diplomatic coup quite a a performance from the king in Washington talking to the uh congressional session the joint congressional session and also presenting Donald Trump with a bell as well he says if you want us just give us a ring really quite uh astonishing and just reminds us I suppose that the king is the most one of the most experienced probably the most experienced diplomat we have let's have a little look at what some of the stuff he's been saying in Washington.
>> Indeed, you recently commented, Mr. President, that if it were not for the United States, European countries would be speaking German.
Dare I say that if it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking French.
>> I mean, the king really has played a blinder here. Uh, Claire, what do you think?
>> I, as I've said to other people, his he's really gone up. my estimations actually on this trip. I He was punchy, he was witty. Um speech Congress will lasted far longer than it needed to because there were 12 standing >> minutes and then Yeah, exactly. Um but on that speech when he spoke about the checks and balances from the Magna Carta and all the executive orders, I mean whilst I do think it did go over Trump's head for one, there must be some Republicans there who actually thought >> Yeah, hold on a second. This is a bit of a pinch for the punch. Um, but the Trump bell, I mean, who knew that even existed? That was absolutely superb. And then off quite, you know, obviously it wasn't off the cuff, per se, but you know, just give us a call. Give us a ring. Give us a ring. Give us a ring.
Ring my bell. Ring the bell. Yes.
Exactly. Um, Sean, I'm going to take a a punt here. I'm going to assume something. I don't mean to profile you, but I'm going to I'm going to guess that you're not a massive royalist. Well, I tell you what, Peter, I might have to hand back my passport after this, but I did think that >> the king being in Washington is kind of an example of how the kind of the head of state being a non-elected role in the United Kingdom can play in its favor where you've got a man that spent the first 65 years of his life, 60 coming up to 70 years of his life training to be the foremost diplomat of the country.
And in a time of great international turmoil, in a time where the United States and the United Kingdom through Trump and Kirstammer's relationship is kind of frosty, what with >> Iran with the refusal to join into the war, what what have you. But for him to go there and to be able to not only as you pointed out to be able to give a slight jab here and there when it comes to the Magna Carta, when it comes to the shared values of Christianity, but then also to be able to butter up in a way that comes off as smooth and comes off as trained and prepared, you know.
>> Um I think it there there's a lot to be commended from what he's done. Uh will we extend that to say that you will lament the uh pruggation of parliament and the fact that hereditary peers will no longer be part of the house of Lord Sean or is that a step too far?
>> Yeah. No, I think if if I'm standing here saying that the king the king has done a good job >> is guy >> what do you think about the hereditary peers cla what's your view on that? I I think it's really sad because I I for one obviously with the the assisted h dying bill I'm really pleased that the lords the house of lords were there and I think it was made up of hereditary peers and they were working incredibly hard to get this bill stopped make it dead to kill it off um and whilst the the problem with not having hereditary peers the problem with them having them all not even elected because they're not given it'll be just for me it'll be cronyism. Yes, it's a very interesting point.
>> When we spoke about the king there being 65 years in learning, learning from the best in my view, Queen Elizabeth II, these hereditary peers have families.
Therefore, by nature, the periage is passed on.
>> Perhaps there is a different role for these people though rather than being lawmakers, hereditary people.
>> I mean, you we're talking other >> So, I I had a very interesting experience. You know, I have a a parliamentary pass and I go around parliament. you it was put up mentioned that before Pet was in the Lord's canteen and I couldn't really I was having some some uh food uh some subsidized lunch and I couldn't find a seat and there was this um elderly gentleman and I said I'm terribly sorry there aren't any seats do you mind if I sit down sat down I said hello I'm Peter and he said I'm John and it turned out he was the juke of Somerset and I he's one one of the hereditary peers I just had an interesting chat with him and he told me that every time a well you probably know this but every time uh hereditary peer dies or retires or whatever, they have a little mini election of the hereditary peers of for that party who want to get in because there only 92 of them after the Blair reforms. And I said, so there's actually there actually is a bit of democracy. I mean, there's a very a very a very small number of people who can actually stand for these rules. But I mean, I do think something's lost perhaps in this changing. It's just the changing of our society. And of course, when you look at hereditary rules, maybe people look at the monarchy next.
Claire.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that is definitely a thing, but I think the king has managed to salvage some of this. And indeed the um Kensington Palace, it wouldn't be KP now, put out a lovely picture of the 15th wedding anniversary of uh princes of Princess and Princess of Wales with their three children.
>> There must be a role still for the monarchy in this country, especially in this these times of diplomatic.
>> Yeah, Sean, just in a word, I I I actually have a thought. Um you know, Ireland always thinks of itself as a very progressive uh role. They've had as president of Ireland, head of state.
They've had the first woman. They've had the first northerner. They've had the first uh Protestant. I think I should do it. I think it's time for the first unionist.
>> You're more than welcome.
>> First unionist. I'd say in the next 1015 years, there is going to be movements in the Republic of Ireland to try and welcome in the side of the community.
>> I'm up for that. Be Dary and let me tell you, I I've measured the drapes there.
Listen, thank you both very much. Dermal doing political commentator and Sean Hickeyi who said I've contacted Paul this show. Stay with us.
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Very good evening. This is the evening exchange. I'm Peter Cardwell. Thank you very much for your company on this dark day for our nation. Another terror attack, this time in Gers Green in North London, a heavily Jewish area, perhaps the most heavily Jewish area of the country, where two men were stabbed. The suspect is in custody and we know that the uh prime minister says he will get go there as soon as he can. Hasn't been there so far. I'm going to speak to his former director of communications in just a minute. We'll also hear from you.
There are so many people who want to get in on this big topic today because really what has happened has been absolutely disgraceful. It's yet another indictment of the dreadful anti-semitism in this country. The two Jewish men stabbed. Uh police say they're working with security services. uh one of the lines of inquiry whether this attack was deliberately targeting the Jewish community in London. I mean it's it's highly unlikely that that wasn't the case. The victims are aged 76 and 34 and have been named by the chief rabbi as Nakman Mush Belchaya Sarah and Musha Bena H in a statement on social media.
We'll also talk about uh the state of Kier Starmer his leadership especially in light of the special relationship and the king in Washington at the moment who seems to be doing extremely well.
Kirst's relationship with Trump seems to be quite different there. We'll talk as well about Angela Rener potentially returning to the cabinet and perhaps a reshuffle after the next uh election which the uh local election which is happening next week. Uh we'll also talk about the crime and policing bill and why two-thirds of under 18s will have a mental health condition by 2030. So much to discuss and I want to hear your views on it. Whatever they are, give me a ring 0344991000.
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The same number for uh WhatsApp text messages or for phone calls. And we will take as many calls, text, tweets, and voice notes as we can between now and 10:00 as we always do, but particularly today. So much to discuss here on Evening Exchange. Stay with us.
Just before we talk about Kier Sarmmer, I just want to hear what Alisa has said.
She sent me a voice note on the attack today.
>> What happened today didn't happen in a vacuum. We all know that. October 2023, the hate marches started. The Tories were in power. Nothing was done. Suel Bravman tried to do something, but she was criticized for calling them hate marches. The hostage posters were torn down. Anti-semitism was being spread all over the country. Nothing was done.
Police forces looked so weak. What a disgrace. And then you had Pascal Robinson Foster shouting death, death to the IDF wherever he went. No police force has done anything about that.
Recognizing a non-existent Palestinian state. What the hell is that all about?
Disgraceful. When hostages were being held by Hamas in Gaza at that time, I will never forgive the government for what they did. Never. They are complicit. Thank you. A strong view there from Alisa in Chsford. So much to discuss in regard to the government uh response to this, but also the wider picture for our prime minister, especially as he had his final prime minister's questions today just before parliament is perog it's called suspended essentially the end of the parliamentary session. We've got those local elections next week and there may well be a reshuffle after the king's speech or perhaps even before it. James Lions is with me now, former number 10 communications director. Good evening, James.
Good evening, Peter.
>> Just talk me through what will have happened in number 10 today, the prime minister's day. He's obviously will have been told very, very quickly about this attack in Golders Green. We know he went into uh Cobra, the government's emergency committee meeting. Uh just tell us what it's like being in number 10 when these kinds of things happen.
>> Well, I think the first thing to say about all of this is that the prime minister will have felt this very personally. His wife and children are Jewish as are mine. uh his in-laws are part of the north London um Jewish community and of course this happened on a day when we had three people in court for firebombing property connected um to the prime minister. So uh you know I think he will have had a very um uh personal and sincere response to this.
In terms of what will happen clearly you know uh the news will have been broken to the prime minister who's clearly reacted very quickly in convening um Cobra. uh you will have a range of officials there representing the various emergency services and the relevant ministers and officials from the relevant departments um and they'll get an update on what what's known uh about the incident and then what further action um could or should be taken.
>> What would you say to many of our viewers and listeners? I think I can speak for Alisa who we heard on the voice note there a second ago who actually don't agree with you and don't believe that Kier Starmer is being sincere here. They don't many of my viewers and listeners are really quite worried about anti-semitism in this country as I know you are too James as I'm sure the prime minister is but they hold on a second but but they often blame him for the atmosphere that is there and think that far more should have been done before now. Well, look, members of my own family have been sub subjected um to uh anti-semitism in the last couple of years since, you know, the events in in I'm >> very sorry to hear that, James.
>> And and um I would say, you know, I I it is impossible to know the prime minister not to know uh he sincerely holds these views. But I completely understand why particularly people from the Jewish community, you know, led by the chief rabbi calling for meaningful action. It is what 6 months since we had that deadly attack on the um synagogue in in Manchester. We've had firebombings of synagogues. Uh we've had even firebomb attacks on um Jewish volunteer ambulance services in the capital. Uh is extraordinary. I am not contesting in any way um that there are uh horrendous levels of anti-semitism in this country.
When we hear people on these marches chanting um globalize the interifard, this is what it means. It means people being attacked on our streets. The problem is what can you realistically do about it? You know, we've seen uh pal Palestinian Palestine action being prescribed by the government. Um that's led to uh real problems around the kind of policing of these demonstrations. Um we're going to see further action against uh the Iranian revolutionary guard in the king's speech in just a couple of weeks time. Um but the question is what are what are the practical levers that can be pulled? But of course I understand that the Jewish community in particular feel they've heard you know they've heard words from politicians of all parties about solidarity um and standing with the Jewish community and attacks on the Jewish community being attacks on everyone. But there is a very real problem here in a society like ours.
What can you actually do uh to stop something like this kind of random attack happening?
>> It's interesting. The police are saying uh that individuals are being encouraged by foreign groups. We'll bring you exactly what the police are saying about that in in a few minutes. I just wonder if we could slightly look back on the last couple of days. It's been an incredibly busy day, a busy week, even though it's only Wednesday in politics.
Morgan Mcweeny who I know you worked with uh James has been uh giving evidence to the foreign affairs select committee where what do you see as the position of the prime minister going into these local elections because we're hearing all sorts of things we saw Ed Miliban's I ruling uh interview where he just really agreed with the premise of a lot of those questions we've seen this suggestion anyway in the Daily Telegraph that Angela Rainer may be on her way back to cabinet. Uh does this show a strong prime minister or as many people believe a very weak prime minister?
>> Well, look, the irony of the situation for the prime minister is he's being vindicated in the uh Mandlesson uh affair in the um uh his critics were saying there's no way Mandlesson could have been appointed if there, you know, were red flags against him in the vetting process. Not true. Uh the his critics said the prime minister must have been told about red flags in the vetting process. Well, we now know that definitely uh was uh not true. We were even told that Morgan Mween had been swearing at officials and that has turned out to be true. But of course, this thing is just it's incredibly it's in yeah, not true. And of course, it's incredibly damaging though despite all of that to the prime minister because it does all just bring back up the um uh the misjudgment around the appointment in in the first place. So, um, he does go into these local elections, uh, in a weaker position. I think, um, they were always seen, you know, everybody knows that the Labour Party is going to get a shellacking in these elections, uh, not just in the locals, but in Scotland and in Wales. Um, and that had long been seen as a potential trigger for a move against the prime minister. I think maybe a week even three week sorry a month or three weeks ago um that threat seemed to have receded but the the the eruption the third installment of the Peter Manson scandal uh has definitely put him in a more precarious position >> when you contrast what the king has been saying and doing in Washington o and indeed New York over the past few days a really astonishing and brilliant I would argue diplomatic effort is there a way for that relationship between Starmer and Trump to be in any way uh mended do you think?
>> Well, first of all, Peter, I think you're absolutely right. It has been a triumph and uh you know, it is one in the eye for all those people who were suggesting uh that the king shouldn't be going. You know, the royal family are the Heineken uh of international relations. they can refresh the parts of uh diplomacy that other diplomats simply cannot reach and we've seen that uh in the last sort of 20 24 hours. Um how long that lasts well you never know with Donald Trump but I would say you know the prime minister did a great job of handling uh Donald Trump pretty much right up until the point where the president um criticized uh UK armed forces service in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Uh and I think you know understandably at that point um the prime minister took a rather uh more robust line but the thing about Donald Trump is he can move on. Um and so hopefully you know we will see that uh relationship uh rebuilt off the back of this but you know there are no guarantees.
>> What about his relationship with this country? you've already conceded and I suppose uh it's you know it's as plain as the nose in our faces that uh as you correctly say there is going to be a bad night for Labor in these local elections and the Scottish and Welsh uh national elections there. I >> I don't think that was breaking news, Peter.
>> No, I don't I don't think it was either.
Uh I don't think you you've told us anything we perhaps didn't know. But can the prime minister survive? Can he get his mojo back? Can he in any in any way uh get authority back? of of course you can survive. Uh that doesn't necessarily mean that you will. Um but as prime you have all sorts of levers and you've already been talking about a potential reshuffle. Uh essentially you've got two well you've got three things that can move you on. One is events obviously you know and um uh the the cycles that that go you move through the gears but two is personnel and you've already mentioned that there is the potential for a um a reshuffle in fairly short order. We've seen reports that that could come as soon as next Saturday uh before we even got all the results um in although other uh reports suggest the prime minister has yet to make up his mind. And then of course you've got policy and the king's speech is scheduled for May the 13th. Um and I think uh you know they will be trying to use that in Daniel Street as a as a pivot point. M and I mean it's interesting you talk about events there certainly and what I find very interesting and I think it's it says quite a lot about the position of the prime minister where you have his staying out of Iran for example that is a very popular policy a lot of people in this country agree with that policy yet he has not had a bounce in his personal uh um point points his personal polling as >> that's not that's not quite that's not quite right >> it they haven't matched anyway >> so he had so there very there was no real change in uh party voting intention. His own personal ratings went up slightly but um uh that kind of rallying seems to have uh fallen away with the Mandlesson scandal.
>> Okay. Um James, really interesting to talk to you. Thank you very much uh for your time this evening. That's James Lions who's the former communications director at number 10 under uh Kier Starmer. A voice note now from Karen.
She has been speaking about the Golders Green attack.
>> Good evening Peter. When everybody's finished massacrating the Jews, are they going to start on the Christians? Are they going to start on the Sikhs? Are they going to start on the Hindus? It's wrong. We all have the same bloods. We all have the same skeletal system.
Again, religion plays a part. There's nothing wrong with Jewish people. They are lovely. I grew up around a lot of them, and they were the most friendliest people you could ever meet. I'm so sorry for what's happened today to them.
Nobody deserves that.
>> That is uh just a wonderful message, Karen, and I really really want to say thank you for it. I agree with every single word of it. Sarah has been in touch on WhatsApp and says, "I am asking from the bottom of my heart that people wake up. We are not the enemy. We are scared, but we are going nowhere." With love from a Jewish mother in Manchester.
Thank you for that. Um, I really have feeling the hairs on the back of my neck stand up this evening because there is so much emotion in this and there are so many people who are really scared right now. There are loads of people Jewish and non-Jewish but particularly our Jewish friends and neighbors and I want to ask them if you are ringing me, if you're texting me, if you're sending us a WhatsApp as Sarah did there, what do you want us to do? How can we help you?
What can we do? I'm always told, you know, condemn any anti-semitism. Uh talk to people, ask them why they're saying certain things, why they're repeating nonsense about Jewish people and critical things about uh different bits of racism that are there. There's there's so much I think that we can do even in our own little ways. um by ringing the station, by telling me your views, by tweeting something out, by retweeting something which is in support of the uh Jewish community on social media, we can all play a part no matter who we are. Uh Lee and Bournemouth has given me a ring 034499100.
Lee, you're very welcome to the program.
What would you like to say?
>> Uh what I'd like to say is I I I just can't understand because we pay the police to defend the Jewish communities, yet the police, they're not calling out these people. They're not dealing with it properly. So, how can we ever get around this situation? I'm not a Jewish person myself, but I feel sorry for the Jewish communities that have been here for decades.
>> The police the police just aren't doing their job. They're just not doing their job. And they I'm not saying I'm not saying every single attack can be prevented. Of course, it can't. But, uh clearly the Jewish community are are not being protected to the level that they need to be protected. But it's also it's not just that, Lee. It's why they need to be protected in the first place.
Exactly. Exactly. And uh you know I I just think it's high tide because we need to ban these marches, these Palestinian marches and and all this.
It's in our country and we we're not part of this. So I don't know why. And and all this rhetoric about Jewish people like you know the antif father and all this stuff. It's it's just ridiculous now. It's getting out of hand, you know, and and I feel in danger as a as a as an English person as well.
>> Well, and I know I know how you feel. A lot of people feel the same way. Lee, thank you. Lee and Born with her.
Annette in Leicster has given me a ring.
Annette, go ahead.
>> Hello, Peter. Hi. Um, after watching and reading about these terrific events, it it just belies belief. I was going to have my dinner, but I feel physically sick now. um to quote a British institution basel and I'm sorry if this offends people this is exactly how Nazi Germany started >> I I I think a lot of people feel the same way there are certainly I I mean the Nazis were the Nazis and nobody nobody else are the Nazis but there are definitely echoes of exactly the same kind of rhetoric the same things happening the same demonization and that very very interesting thank you very much for that uh reaction to James Lions from Brian who said good evening Peter this book is definition of an ostrich.
Anyone who says Starmer had no idea about the vetting of Mandlesson is living in Cuckoo Land. I cannot believe Starmer didn't read the independent newspaper article and therefore must have realized something was wrong, says Brian. Thank you for that. Hillary says in Westershare says KH was flat. Uh this is City Khan. He was flat, unemotional, and looked as if he was hating every word he was uttering. I turned off the sound and it looked as if he was reciting the telephone directory. I am beyond furious. Peter says Hillary. Last night we spoke to Jonathan Harunov. you may remember he was in the studio. Uh he is Israel's international spokesman to the UN. He was actually in Golders Green today. He he works for the he works in the UN I should say in um uh in New York, but he's going to join us again after the break uh uh to tell us what he saw in Golders Green today. Stay with us.
Look at it Olivia Mar.
>> They sent us a picture that made me feel so ashamed. We look like hoarders.
>> Chris Marshall.
>> I'm actually recovering from an accident right now.
>> You've landed loose today, haven't you?
>> Yeah. Don't shake the arm, Chris. Too much.
>> Emma, >> you're with Danny Bole, who's like the maddest director ever. He's got so much energy. He's like across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk.
>> As I said, Jonathan Herunov, who was in the studio last night, happened to be in Golders Green around the time of the attack. Jonathan is the is Israel spokesman of the United Nations and joins me on the line now. Jonathan, just talk us through what happened today.
>> Good evening, Peter. It's great to be with you. I wish it was under more pleasant uh circumstances.
Well, this morning, uh, having brunch, having coffee in Gold's Green Road at a kosher restaurant, surrounded by Jewish people, everyone's going along with their regular business. And then you suddenly hear commotion. You suddenly hear helicopters, uh, buses, uh, police cars, ambulances, and just general buzz.
Uh there were unfortunately given the the world we're living in, the city we're living in, the Jewish neighborhood we're living in, there was some fears immediately, especially in the in the cafe that I was at, that something was wrong. So go on Twitter and you see that there's been some kind of suspected attack and very quickly the area was cordoned off.
Boulders Green was was shut down and it's just the latest in really a series of abhorentt virulent acts of anti-semitism that are designed to fracture and scare the Jewish community.
Uh and uh and that's and it's also installed quite a lot of fear. Uh I was at the um there was a whole assembling of of the press of course and a couple of politicians who um gathered by the crime scene and when one of the officials was giving their press conference, you could hear just how upset and angry a lot of the Jewish community members there were that they were calling for people to resign. And there's just a lot of frustration because there's been warning after warning, uh wakeup call after wakeup call. we you have to go back to when I I unfortunately I keep to joining you only Peter um when there's terrible stuff to talk about but the one of the more recent times we gathered was when we spoke about the aftermath of the uh the uh massacre in uh Manchester Park and >> Peton Park of course and there have been warning after warning and and the Jewish community members are saying how many more warnings do you need before there's going to be action >> and and it's interesting Jonathan within the last few minutes sir Mark Roelly who is the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police has said that it's been reported that he said some individuals are being encouraged, persuaded or paid to commit acts of violence on behalf of foreign organizations and hostile states. Now is the time to ask some difficult questions. Why don't we see more condemnation of the attacks we've seen in recent weeks? And there are many I know there's an Iranian group that has uh claimed responsibility for this. We don't know whether that's true or not, but the fact is there are we know foreign actors as we were talking about last night on British soil. You were perhaps a few hundred yards away from in theory uh one of their one of their acts and that is very worrying too.
>> It's certainly concerning especially in the context when some government officials uh in western governments are trying to distance themselves from the Middle East from Iran and trying to to to to push it away. But the reality is that the Islamic Republic has very much come to our shores in Europe. And whether or not the Islamic Republic had its fingerprints on this particular attack, if you just look at recent history, um these uh spin-off pop-up terrorist proxies of the Islamic Republic are very proudly claiming responsibility for these attacks.
attacks not on Israel, not on the Israeli government or Israeli military, but unambiguously anti-semitic acts of Jew hatred uh in London. And more has to be done to protect these communities who are actually and this doesn't get reported on too much in in today's coverage. Gold's Green Road is lined um with uh flags, Union Jack flags. This is a community that is very fiercely proudly British and they want to stay in the UK and but they also want assurances that they and their families can actually live in peace and security and that's very much under threat.
>> Jonathan, thank you. Uh that is Jonathan Harunoff. Thanks for joining us again this evening as well. He's Israel's international spokesman at the United Nations. I want to speak as well to Nigel in London, a regular caller who was in the area at the time as well.
Nigel, you're very welcome to the program. Can you tell me what you saw and heard and witnessed today?
>> Well, good evening, Peter. Thank you for having me on your show. Um, I came across this completely by chance to be honest with on my way home. I don't live too too far away. Can I give a little bit of just a bit of background color to this particular area?
>> Of course. Go ahead. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, this gold is green sort of split into two ends really. The lower end of Gold's Green where this is and the upper end where the sort of main high road is. Now the area is a very diverse area. Of course it's a huge Jewish community and it has members from other communities. Uh my wife for instance is a is a is a Christian lady and I'm a Jewish man and there are many many demographics who eat meet enjoy and walk and socialize and get along with each other very very well. From where this incident took place about 300 yards away is the Iranian wall of remembrance for those massacred in Iran. And there's and there's a section of it which is for the Jewish community as well for the October 7th atrocities. And they all everyone gets along very very well. And I came across this. I got to a court and did some pictures of emergency services uh and some color in the background of what's going on. people upset, distressed, people gathering because of course this is completely and utterly out of context for the area. And I think what's important to mention, I'm sure you're going to recognize this, >> is the Met Police, I think, have clearly failed the Jewish community.
>> Yeah.
>> There has been several other attacks in the last few weeks starting on May March the 23rd and this is the only incident >> they have now declared as a terrorist.
Well, why weren't the other incidents occurred?
>> Well, that's that's a very good point.
Nigel, just take take me to what you saw today. Just talk me through that.
>> So, I saw a huge amount of police officers, uh, a lot of people from Shamrim, from CST, who are the sort of security services, look after the Jewish community that work very closely with the with the police. Lots of people from London Ambulance Service, Hat Solar. Um I got there of course after this person was detained tased detained and arrested and the casualties were were taken away.
There was lots of ambulances. Then the cordons there were lots and lots very very wide cordons which I now believe have been extended. And I think that the what I noticed was was the shock and disbelief. But I've also picked up from the community there are the upset and mistrust of the police. Because let's not forget it's only last year a Jewish man on a protest in central London was singled out for being openly Jewish.
>> That's right. That's right.
>> We and one of and one of your previous callers quite rightly said I can't remember the lady's name that police officers from this particular area again Barnett took down of Jewish hostages outside a shop in Edgeware.
>> Yeah.
>> So the question is how can the public and how can the Jewish community have trust in the police service? Number one, how can I have trust in Sadi Khan who as far as I'm concerned is a total utter disgrace. And thirdly, if we look about the Metron police, you say we have intelligence policing. Where's the intelligence and where's the lead?
>> Nigel, really, really good points there and thank you for your call. I really appreciate that, Nigel. Um, I want to read out a message from Marian County Down. says Starmer's government and the previous Tory government allowed huge scale hate marches where anti-semitism is deeply embedded among many taking part. Labor's friends, the far-left unions are front and center in these marches and demonstrations, chanting anti-semitic hate. Starmer and his morally bankrupt government recognize the state of Palestine which is controlled by Hamas terrorists. Starmer and Labour helped to sew the seeds of violence and hate that British Jews are now suffering. In Mary's opinion, Graeme says that he can will not be wanted in Gulers Green as he has one of the main problems with the uptick in hatred and violence against the Jewish community.
Elaine says there's a massive problem in the universities with anti-semitism and also schools with these far-left teachers. But there's also a big problem in the in the uh crime prosecution service where people who are charged with anti-semitism are let off with pitiful sentences if at all. Just remember the convoy of cars driving through a Jewish area shouting through loudspeakers about raping Jewish daughters. It's sick. And nothing happened. That was two years ago. It's festered ever since and there's been no consequence for this or the vile hatred screamed at hate marches week in week out. It's really interesting you mentioned that Elaine because Julia Hartley Brewer tweeted about that earlier. I retweeted the tweet in specifically about those people shouting through loudspeakers about raping Jewish daughters. Not a single person was arrested. Not a single charge was brought. Not a single person faced the consequences of the law for that. Keith Nottingham says Starmer not long ago announced to Donald Trump and the world that Sadik Khan is a friend. not only his kind of friend, he is someone who is in tandem with his own beliefs. The government should, like Richard Ty has said this evening, they shouldn't be banning hate marches. Uh they should be banning hate marches, but they won't because banning them doesn't get votes, says Keith and Nottingham. And another person says, "It's about time our media stopped covering for those who come to our country to harm us, deport illegals now," says that person. Lots more to discuss. We're going to continue talking about what happened in Golder Screen.
We're also going to talk about other issues as well, not least, why twothirds of under 18 teens will have a mental health condition diagnosed by 2030. Tony Blair as well saying ADHD and autism shouldn't entitle you to benefits. What do you think about that? Let me know your thoughts on that. And this attacking gold screen, whatever's on the tip of your tongue, whatever you want to talk about this evening, 0344991000.
We'll speak to a psychologist uh who specializes in parenting and child development in just a few minutes. I'd love to hear your views, too. Stay with us here on the evening exchange.
across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk.
>> Joanna in Birmingham's been in touch.
Says, "I've been thinking about the attack in Golders Green all day. I just don't understand how anyone can do this.
The Jewish community have never heard anyone and I just want to get and they just want to get on with their lives. It makes me very sad about the state of our country. I also stand with you alongside the Jewish community," says Joanna in Birmingham. Thank you for that, Joanna.
What a lovely message. Um D in Chesterfield says, "My heart is breaking over the constant attacks on Jews. When my mom came to England from Ireland to work in the 1950s, she worked for a while for a Jewish family on Edgeware Road in London. They were all very kind and generous to her, especially the grandfather of the family. Walked her and the other waitresses home every evening. He said, "We are outsiders in England. We must look after each other.
How much has changed for the Jews in 70 years," says D in Chesterfield. We will return to that story in the next few minutes. But I want to talk about another big story that I think we should talk about this evening. And this is the fact that twothirds of UK teenagers are to be diagnosed with mental health problems by 2030. This is a report by Zurich Insurance finding that having a mental health problem had already become the norm for young people aged between 15 and 19. It estimate this estimate suggests 51% of people in this age bracket have a mental or behavioral disorder such as anxiety, depression or ADHD. It threatens to worsen Britain's youth unemployment crisis. There are lots of politicians from various uh political parties. People like Wes Stringing the health secretary, Kemmy Bened, the Tory leader, warning of an overdiagnosis of mental health conditions. Dr. Charlotte Armmitage is a psychologist uh who specializes in parenting and child development.
Charlotte, what is going on here?
>> Uh I think there's a number there are a number of things. So first of all, it's how children are spending their childhoods now. It's not really an optimal environment for brain development.
Children are spending a lot of time on screens. We know worldwide average is 6 hours and 40 minutes that they're spending on devices. Now, that's outside of school. And in that time, they could have >> Oh, hold on. Sorry, Charlotte. They're spending 6 hours 40 minutes beyond school, not in school, like in their free time. I mean, that's that's almost every waking hour outside school if they go to bed at a reasonable hour, isn't it?
>> Yeah. And actually it's, you know, for many seven, eight, nine hours plus and they're not going to bed at a reasonable hour. They're going to bed late. So they're in a constant sleep deficit that's affecting that naturally affects emotional regulation, impulse control, behavior, decision making, dietary choices the next day. So what we've got is this vicious cycle of children spending too much time on devices, not sleeping properly, not engaging in the things that they need to do the next day, which would be say going to school, doing their activities, playing their musical instruments, doing sports. All of those things help to develop resilience, build confidence, build self-esteem. Then what we see is when they go into the workforce, they don't have the resilience to cope with that.
And that's why we've got one million children, well 16 to 24 year olds, so young adults who are neat, so not in education, employment or training at the moment. So I think this that's one of the factors. I'd say the other one is that there is this um widening understanding. um it's quite common now for people to talk in terms of mental health or diagnosis and there's a tendency to pathize the normal human experience >> and that's a problem that we're seeing again >> so people say I've people say they don't say I've got exams coming up I feel a bit nervous about it I'm a bit worried about it they say I've got anxiety and actually anxiety which I have been diagnosed with by a psychiatrist is a clinical condition simply because you feel anxious doesn't mean you have anxiety.
>> That's right. So I what I tend to notice is that every normal emotion is um a a diagnostic uh trait now. So rather than sort of even if you sort of in clinical assessment will say to somebody um have you have mental health problems and they may respond with saying oh well I was up you know I was uh really upset when my nana died or my grandma died or something and that that's not a mental health problem. Perfectly that's a perfectly normal human reaction to to circumstances. Um how much is lockdown to do with this?
>> I it has a part to play, doesn't it? But it's more about what they were doing in lockdown. So what lockdown changed how we all live and not for the better.
We're all spending more time alone, more time isolated. That contributes to poor mental health as well. They spent more time on screens, more time children, teens being on social media, that comparison culture, the the the anxiety inducing experience of just being on screen, the fact that they're constantly being fed content about well-being, wellness, mental health, half the time from people who aren't really qualified to talk about it as well. Um, I think that a huge amount of time was spent doing that in lockdown. So, that's how it contributed to it.
>> We don't know. I mean it's one of those things where people everyone had different experiences in lockdown. So I don't think we >> but but you have a lot a lot of 15 to 19 year olds who are in this who are in this bracket who didn't have the same socialization uh that you would expect to have uh when they you know 5 years ago when they were between 10 and 14 for example a key developmental uh period.
Surely that's uh well as you've said it's it's part of this. I just want to talk about um how we best help people who genuinely do have uh mental health conditions or or neurode divergent conditions. Uh the Tony Blair Institute uh which is a huge think tank and of course he's former prime minister is the head of it saying that ADHD and autism shouldn't entitle people to benefits. I I I can honestly say I I know someone in my life who has both of those things, ADHD and autism, who is on benefits and wants to work, but is worried if she gets a job, she'll lose those benefits.
And I mean, I think working every day would do her the power of good. I'm not a mental health professional like you, Charlotte, but I just wonder whether uh what the best way to help those people is, whether they should be in work or not in work.
Well, that that spectrum is absolutely it's very wide into ADHD and autism and you'll have people who can't function at all, can't look after themselves, need a lot of care on that spectrum of autism.
And then you'll have people who are working quite healthily and functioning well in education and in employment as well. So, it's it can't be a a blanket.
Nobody's going to get uh benefits if they have that those diagnoses, but I think it's got to be people at the more severe end um of that spectrum. If we were all assessed by a psychiatrist, I think we would all present with traits of something. Um it's whether we choose to pursue that and go along that route of getting a diagnostic label. And I think we need to look at what other factors may be causing the presentation of these traits. Is it neurodeiversity?
Is it that we are behaving in a certain way? Is it that our environment is such that it's giving rise to traits that appear like ADHD for example?
>> Yeah, really really interesting to talk to you. Thank you Charlotte. Dr. Charlotte Armadage there who's a psychologist and an expert on parenting and child development. Um, Amanda says, "Tony Blair's got a nerve." Commenting on young people's mental health when it was he who encouraged all on Sunday to go to university, the Mickey Mouse degrees ruined many lives. Leslie says, "I'm so sad again today. Sick of platitudes, warm words, another cobra meeting to do absolutely nothing on Golder Screen. Starmer is a disgrace," says Leslie. Allison says, "So Starmmer would not help in Iran and he won't help with the bad side of Iran in this country. Trump, we need you." And Ivor in Chancellor says, "We don't want Starmer and Golders Green. policies are the cause of the problem. It would be like Hitler visiting Avitz to express his sympathies. Either I think that comparison is maybe a wee bit uh over the top. I you know the only people who were the Nazis were the Nazis and Starmer is not Hitler. Uh but certainly I can appreciate the depth of anger, the depth of frustration that so many people have on this. We're going to talk to Gary Mond in a second, the chairman of the Reform Jewish Alliance. So stay with us.
Heat. Heat.
Olivia Mar.
>> They sent us a picture that made me feel so ashamed. We look like hoarders.
>> Chris Marshall.
>> Hey, I'm actually recovering from an accident right now.
>> You've landed loose today, haven't you?
>> Yeah. Don't shake the arm, Chris. Too much.
>> Emma, >> you're with Danny Bole, who's like the maddest director ever. He's got so much energy. He's like you got some money.
across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk.
>> Thanks to Debbie says, "My daughter has a diagnosis of severe learning difficulties and autism. I refuse to use autism now because it's the new bad back. My daughter can never live without adult supervision. I go back to basics and tell people she is severely mentally disabled. It hits the right spot then. I work in a job center and a 23 year old moaned that he was sanctioned because the job center failed to send a reminder text about his appointment. He's 23.
That's a grown man, not someone who needs to be reminded about appointments.
Plenty more coming in on this.
0344991000.
I want to speak to Gary Mann now who is the chairman of the Reform Jewish Alliance. Gary, good evening.
>> Good evening, Peter.
>> What a day. Absolutely horrendous for the Jewish community. Tell me your reaction to what has happened in Golders Green and what do you think should happen now? My first reaction is to wish a refuge shalmer which is a Jewish expression for get well soon to those two gentlemen who were injured in one case I think quite severely injured in the attack.
>> Yeah, they've been named by the chief rabbi this evening as Nakman Mosh bin Chay Sarah and Mosh bin Ba uh the chief rabbi saf has uh said that on a statement social media and of course I join you Gary in wishing them a full uh recovery very very soon.
>> Thank you. Well, of course, politics is to blame. The politicians are to blame.
We've seen complete failure from the previous Conservative government and from this government in actually even having the will to do anything about the problem. In the previous Conservative government, Sella Braman did try to ban the marches. And yet, she didn't succeed. And she didn't succeed because she lacked support from her fellow conservative members of the cabinet and from the civil service. And it comes is somewhat hypocritical for Kimmy Benov today to start expressing her sympathies when she did not support Suela at the time. That's my first point. Under this Labor government, they like to talk and do nothing. It is appease, deflect, delay, and hope it goes away. That's what Niger Farage said in an article he wrote for the Jewish Chronicle last week, which was very precient of him.
And that seems to be what the Labor government is doing. Now what should happen? Number one, immediately not not when the new parliament convenes, but immediately we should ban the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Council, the IRGC.
Secondly, we should also ban the Muslim Brotherhood. Thirdly, we must stop hate speech and hate speech particularly when it's done in mass rallies or at Glastbury Festival by pop stars or other celebrities who scream, "Kill the IDF."
>> Death. Death the IDF. That's what Pascal Robinson Foster said there. He said it in London as well at the Alkuds demonstration and not a thing happened.
The crime prosecution service when it came to Glastonbury said with days to go, hours to go till the end of the statute of limitations of 6 months that there was there was not enough evidence for him to be charged. I I mean the the law really isn't doing what it has to do here and the the Metropol police not doing what they have to do either. And the proof of that is we don't hear shouts of kill the Russian soldiers invading the Ukraine, do we? It's the IDF they go for because they're almost all Jewish. That is that is it. And then but then what are the causes behind it?
Well, there's probably two prominent causes. Uh one has been said uh by Mr. Harunov earlier on your show is Iran is behind it and I think that Iranian groups linked or groups linked to Iran are behind it and I think what we should be doing is saying to President Trump, we can't do very much but what can we do to help you in the war against Iran because the one thing that will definitely improve the situation if we can achieve it in the next few years is regime change in Thran. And if there's anything we could do to help that along, we should be doing it. Okay? One of the big causes of anti-semitism. It's really interesting you mentioned uh Kemmy Benock there a few just in your answer there a few seconds ago. I just want to watch how she was treated when she went to Goulders Green earlier today. Very interesting exchange here and I'll get your view on it in a second Gary. This was Kami Beno in Goulders Green earlier today expressing sympathy with the community after this horrific attack.
>> One we need to make sure that when people carry out these activities they feel the full force of the law. People think they can get away with this. The person who firebombed a few weeks ago is out on bail. That's not full force of the law. Islamic extremism. This is something that is fueling it. It's not the only thing, but it is fueling it. We need to tackle the misinformation that we're seeing where people are are attacking Jewish businesses in Prince Gail's bakery and so on. We have to root this thing out. Uh we've we've we spent a lot of time being uh tolerant and hoping that it would go away, but we need more action now. Not >> how is my community going to be protected from today? Oh, it's >> so so this is this is one of the thing this is one of the things which we have to raise with the people in charge. You have the Met Police now. I'm not a I'm not the head of the police. I'm not the prime minister. I am a politician.
>> But I can but I can see that there are certain things that are fueling this. We need to drain the swamp and there are things that can be done to make it better.
>> Gary, you've been critical of Kami Bnog, but there is a politician who is actually going on the ground talking to local people. Kirst Starmer, it's 10 10 to nine, still not there.
>> Well, Richard Ty was there today.
>> Yeah, that's right. We interviewed him on the program earlier. Yeah.
>> And uh the the point is that I can't disagree with the sentiments she expresses. But the weakness in her argument is she doesn't say what she is going to do. She's supposed to be leader of the opposition. She should be actually enunciating policies, specific clear-cut policies on what we're going to do. Whereas Reform UK and Richard Ty is saying he's saying quite categorically we need to ban the marches. Reform UK are also saying that that we we need to prescribe the IRGC as soon as possible and also ban the Muslim Brotherhood. So we've actually got some policies and there's got to be more to come of course particularly as I said earlier in in my interview about hate speech.
>> Absolutely. Um Gary, what is your message to people who aren't Jewish, people who are horrified by what is going on here, who want to support our Jewish friends and neighbors? What advice would you give them?
>> Uh be friendly to them. Reach out. Show your sympathy. Show that you're with them in in spirit and in every way possible because these people will also know that there's very much an attitude of first the Saturday people then the Sunday people. M >> many people certainly uh that I am friendly with who are Christians or uh not Jewish, they certainly feel that they feel under threat too as indeed I heard a couple of your callers expressed those views uh about 20 minutes ago.
>> Yes, absolutely. Gary, thank you. Gary Mon there, the chairman of the Reform Jewish Alliance. Plenty of calls on this. Caroline in London has given me a ring about Golder Screen. Caroline, you're very welcome to the program. What would you like to say?
>> Thank you so much, Peter. Well, obviously everything's really been said tonight, so I just want to add a few things. Go for it. You know, this is pretty devastating and my mom's a Holocaust survivor and it this feels really just unreal what's going on here.
We we have a government or a parliament that basically haven't got the guts to actually call out what actually is going on here. We've got terrorists running around. We've had over 90% of terrorists in the last 20 years has been based around is Islamic terrorism organizations. No one's calling it out.
We've got schools, universities being brainwashed. Um that's got to be called out and that's got to be stopped. Um >> why why do you think it is, Caroline, that so few people in public life will actually call it for what it is? They'll say, "Yes, isn't this a dreadful thing that's happened today?" And yes, of course it is. something must be done.
But my view is that it's almost too late. I think a lot of Jewish people, I don't want to speak on their behalf, but a lot of Jewish people I speak to say, look, this is horrible and shocking, but not surprising. This is part of a pattern of what is happening. And it's not about giving an extra 10 million to the Community Security Trust, which does a fantastic job. By the way, I'm not saying I'm not criticizing them. In fact, I'm praising them. It's it's hearts and minds here. It's years ago.
It's dealing with the causes of this, not just the historical causes, but everything since the 7th of October and the horrible, dreadful attacks and hatred and bile that has spewed out on social media uh on parts of the parts of other parts of the media as well and indeed on the streets when people are on these hate marches.
>> Absolutely. Listen, money is irrelevant.
This is not about money. This is about making laws and actually acting on it.
We've become a lawless society. Like you said, one of the young guys arrested for the um fire bomb in Gold's Green is out on bail. They're laughing. They know they can get away with it.
>> Um you you know that that there's no course of action. They've got nothing to be scared of. You know, we're not banning the IRCG. Even the whole of Europe's banned it.
>> We've got in fairness to the government, Caroline, it's going to be in the king's speech. It's going to it's going to be that something they do. And the tries didn't get didn't ban them. I challenged Pretty Patel on this actually when I interviewed her the last time. It is it is appalling that that didn't happen under the Tories and indeed labor.
>> But the other thing you know I'd like to see for for example all schools now that the Nova festivals coming over to the UK as you you were told by an earlier caller >> schools across the UK should be going to that exhibition.
>> Totally agree. Totally agree.
>> And that should be in law. Every school has to take the school kids there. They you know but they're not getting the right ed education. They're being brainwashed. You know, people don't even know what they're voting for when they vote for the Greens. The Greens, their rhetoric is absolutely outrageous. They are so dangerous, so toxic. And where, you know, and more British people need to be aware of what is going on because they're they're asleep and not enough people are listening to talks and not enough people are doing their research.
They're watching the BBC, Sky News.
They're they're they're another element to all this. Caroline, listen, that that is all just complete common sense and I can't disagree uh with any of the sentiments there. I really appreciate that. I just want to bring in Ken from London just before we go to the 9:00 news. Ken, you're very welcome to the program. What are your thoughts this evening?
>> Yes, Peter. Staler and Khan, in my opinion, have caused great rise in Jewish anti-semitism. For 2 years they've allowed evil Muslim chance anti-semitism to grow in the center of London in front of Downey Street in front of the house.
>> It's not just Muslims as well. There there are many anti-semitic Muslims. No doubt about that. But there are many many anti-semitic people from other faiths too.
>> Correct. Correct. But also but the main cause here is Islam. Let us not be scared to tell the truth here. Islam hates the Jews, hates the Christians.
Let us be honest about this. This has to be called out.
>> Do you not think there's a difference between Islam and Islamism, Ken?
>> No. No. Islam is Islam. There are ones who are literally putting into practice and there's ones who are sitting back watching. But when the time comes, they will all join together to try and take over our country. We need Jesus in this country.
>> Ken, you're not honestly saying you're not honestly saying that every single Muslim in the UK is going to join together to uh take over the country when the time comes, as you put it.
every practicing mus will be glad to join in.
>> I just don't think that's true, Ken. I I just I just I I'm afraid I just have to disagree with you there. But listen, thanks for your call. That's Ken in London. MG and Staffordshire sent a lovely message about how much we're covering this and uh the work of uh various journalists including Julie Hartley Brewer was down there earlier on during drive and Samaric Gil. Thank you for that. We're reflecting the news.
We're hopefully doing our job. But um and and I I I want to thank every single person who has called us this evening, whether uh we have time to speak to you or not. We're going to ring back as many people as we can. And please do let me know your thoughts. However you do that, whether it's a voice note, whether it is a text message, a WhatsApp, or a phone call, please do get in touch because there's so much to talk about this uh talk to in regard to this. Philip Kisley will be with me in just a second on not just the immigration surge, but also the Golders Green attack. We'll talk to him about that. And a little bit later on we'll talk about the king in the United States and the end of hereditary peers.
That is something that has happened in our country today. Uh just a little change to the way things happen in Britain. And the one of the experts on all of that is a man called Daniel Britain. We will speak to him about uh the changing nature of Parliament.
Plenty more to discuss in the last hour.
Stay with us here on talk.
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It's just gone 9:00. This is talk. I'm Peter Cardwell. Thank you very much for your company. A horrible day for our country. Another attack against Jewish people. This time in Golders Green in North London. A stabbing two men in hospital. They've been named by the chief rabbi and they are recovering at the moment. We'll discuss this right up until 10:00. A couple of other things as well of course around today, but this is the main story. We'll also talk about the fact that there won't be hereditary peers in this uh country anymore. Just a little change to our island story and we'll talk to Daniel Britain who's my favorite parliamentary constitutional and royal historian about that. Uh lots to discuss and I want to discuss it with you. We'll talk about immigration figures as well. 7 million migrants pushing the UK population to a record high. What do you think of that?
0344991000 is the number number to call. You can text me 872 with the word talk in your text. You can tweet me at talktv. Follow me at Peter Cardwell. You can send me a voice note. You can give me a ring or you can send me a WhatsApp text message.
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Thank you to Ben in Belfast as well for a text. Uh Ben says, "I'm with Ken.
Practicing Muslims are content to stand by as radical Islam threatens this country. There is just Islam." I was challenging Ken on the difference between Islam, Islam, and Islamism. I'm afraid I do have a disagreement with Ken. I also have a disagreement with Ben. But listen, on my program, we disagree without being disagreeable.
Let's go through the day. Let's talk about what's happened in Golders Green.
Let's see their reaction to that.
Firstly from Sir Mark Roelly who is the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police.
>> Our counterterrorism policing teams have already formally declared this incident as a terrorist as a terrorist attack.
It's another horrendous act of violence directed against our Jewish communities which follows a series of arson attacks in recent weeks.
It will rightly shock and anger people across London and in the immediate communities and across the country.
My first thoughts are with the two British Jews who were attacked whilst going about their daily lives which they should be able to do freely and safely in their own local community.
Let me say a few words about what this was. Let me be clear.
This is an attack on one community. An attack on one community is an attack on all London's communities.
>> Sir Mark Roelly there. Well, the mayor of London, Sir Sadi Khan, responded.
This is what he said. I've lived in London all my life. Uh there's been anti-semitism uh faced by Londoners throughout my life and actually for the last few decades. I've never seen the sort of fear my friends, colleagues and neighbors are feeling because they are Jewish. I've never experienced uh this level of attacks on Jewish people across our country which today Jewish Londoners are fighting for their uh lives.
People are scared. Jewish people are scared. Parents are scared. Children are scared. Teachers are scared. It cannot be right. That simply by virtue of a school being a Jewish school, it requires additional protection. Simply by virtue of a place of worship being a synagogue, it requires additional protection. By virtue of people being Jewish, there needs to be volunteers who represent an act and work sham and the community trust from city hall. We're going to carry on supporting the Jewish community, carry on investing in the CST and in our uh police. This must be a wakeup call.
The mayor of London Cers city can kier starmer the prime minister was at Cobra this afternoon the government's emergency committee he says he'll get to gold your screen as soon as he can well it's 5 9 he's not there yet this happened hours ago yes he has other priorities but surely if there's a terror attack on the our shores he should be there in standing in solidarity this is what he said in the House of Commons earlier >> it is deeply concerning uh to everyone in this house there is now a police um investigation and I think we all need to do everything we can to support that um investigation and be absolutely clear in our determination uh to deal with any of these uh offenses the like of which we've seen too much uh recently >> and earlier my colleague Julia Hartley Brewer was at Golders Green. She interviewed the shadow home secretary Chris Phelp. This is what happened.
>> What needs to be done so that this never happens again? Yeah, well, it's the second time I've been here on the streets of Golders Green in just a few weeks uh following the appalling Hats Solola ambulance attack not long ago.
And the truth is, Julia, as you say, the time for warm words is over. It is time for action. That needs to start with a massive police presence in areas like Gold's Green to protect the Jewish community. It means using counterterrorism surveillance powers to identify and disrupt anti-semitic plots.
Iran has been behind much of this. It means urgently banning the IRGC.
>> And I've said to the home secretary, my opposite number, that we would support the government to pass emergency legislation to do that. It can be done in about a week. And we should also be expelling Iranian diplomats and spies who have been coordinating this activity. There are also too many people in this country spouting anti-semitic hatred. Any foreign citizen in this country who expresses anti-semitic views, support for extremism or support for terrorism should frankly be deported. There is no place for that in this country. And nor should we tolerate marches on our streets calling for jihad and inifard or the destruction of Israel. It simply fans It simply fans the flames of hatred and I've had enough of that on our streets.
Julie Hartley Brewer speaking to uh Chris Phelp there, the shadow home secretary. We heard his voice there.
Really interesting messages coming in.
George and Luton says this problem with the Jewish people didn't start on the 7th of October 2023. It started with Salman Rushi and this government's abject failure to back him and instead cave in to the radical Islamists.
Exactly the same as the battley school teacher. This has ultimately emboldened the fanatics to escalate the situation to the current level. Best wishes to the two who were injured today and of course yourself. Uh, thank you, George. Chris says, "This attack on Golders Green is a worrying sign Britain is becoming a more violent and less free society. I hide my Jewish identity as a matter of course for my own safety, even in Leafy Darbasher, and an anonymous message uh from someone who's contacted me says, "A family member of mine is a custody officer. They say that it's so disheartening to book suspects in when the criminal justice system lets us down again and again. Two weeks later, the same suspects are booked in again.
Repeat, repeat. There aren't enough prison places or prison officers. Could this be the reason why anti-semites aren't receiving appropriate sentences?
After all, there are just so many of them. Just a thought. Very, very interesting. Uh, thank you for everybody who has messaged in. I want to speak to Philip Kisley now. Um, and Philip is a senior fellow at the new culture forum.
Philip, we're going to talk about immigration in a second, but I know you will have a view on what has happened in Golder Screen today and indeed the uh sort I call them the sort of lessons will be learned thoughts and prayers people. uh you know I'm sure you were listening to Sadi Khan there earlier on and I don't want to single him out but I will I I just I I just think there's so many politicians including the prime minister including Sadik Khan there there many across the spectrum who say this is all dreadful something should be done but they don't know what that is and they won't take responsibility for it. No, it's just very depressing to listen to all of those politics trot out all the old cliches. Uh less, you know, lessons will be learned. There's no place for this is a wakeup call. But it never is, is it? It's never a wakeup call. This stuff is happening. Every week we have a particular community in this country who are terrified now of walking down the street. They are looking on mass to leave the country.
That means this country is not a civilized place to live. It's a frightening place to live. It's a sectarian hell hole. Uh it's riddled with Islamism. It isn't the country that I grew up in and love. It's somewhere different. I don't recognize it. And frankly, looking at all of that stuff, I don't want these people to govern us, and I don't want to be here.
>> I think so many people feel the same way. And in fact, there was a whole panorama on the BBC recently about Jewish people who are leaving for Israel. In fact, I've spoken to many people. People have phoned in heartbreaking calls of Jewish people who simply do not feel safe in this country.
Can we get it back, Philip? Is that possible?
>> Well, I mean, I think the story we're we're about to cover would suggest that we probably can't. So, it's it's really depressing. I think it isn't just about numbers. It isn't just about demographics. It's very much about ideology. It's very much about the march through the institutions. It's very much about what's rooted in what's taught to our children. It's what it's a it's a it's a sense of of of this world view that we have and and we're so mired in it. We're so blinded by it that we don't actually have the tools. We don't have the vocabulary certainly in the institutions to deal with it. So what we do is we just keep quiet. You know, I I can't imagine that the universities as they did do with George Floyd or or they would do if if if this was, you know, two Muslim, God forbid, it was two Muslim people that were stabbed here.
Everyone everybody would be up in arms.
There would just be a knee-jerk reaction of horror. And >> there's been there's been, as there always is, Philip, a deaf, a deafening silence. a deafening silence from the usual suspect who had this happened to two Muslims, had this happened to two gay people, had this happened to two trans people, had this happened to two black people, would have been all over Twitter, would have been uh talking about how dreadful this is, how the police had failed this, that, and the other. Uh, and we know that, you know, we can we can see the silence. I'm just going to ask uh the top team behind the glass, can you just check for me and tell me in my ear what's Gary Linker said about this?
So, they're going to check and they're going to come back to me. But, Philip, maybe we could talk a little bit about the immigration uh surge here. 7 million migrants uh pushing the UK population to a record high. Your reaction to that?
>> Well, it it's just, you know, there's no surprise there because I knew it was I knew I I'm familiar with the statistics.
I'm familiar with the think tank and and the research and and I've actually contributed to uh a book myself there which is I can't even get it on on the on the screen uh by uh New Culture Forum. It's a it's a an edited collection of essays on immigration and what's going to happen and perhaps what what we do about it. I mean we've had essentially open borders for the last 30 years. We've just seen a graphic illustration of how this country has changed and this country has changed beyond recognition in such a short time.
Now we're talking about I think was it 7.2 7.3 million people coming in and about five five plus million people leaving but that still leaves a population of of incomers about four times the size of Manchester. How are we going to deal with that in a decade when the country is all but bankrupt? How are we going to deal with that when the uh the welfare bill far exceeds the the the tax revenue? What are we going to do, Peter? I don't know. It's it's a very >> and we're in that position at the moment with the with welfare. In fact, it was talked about a prime minister's questions today. Just to update you, uh the producers have had a look at Gary Lker's um Twitter. Uh, no social media post for over 12 hours. He said absolutely nothing on Instagram. He said absolutely nothing on Twitter. I I'm shocked, Philip. I'm sure you are, too.
I'm glad you're sitting down.
>> Well, you know, because I'll be Thank God I am because I'd be I'd be uh I'd be horizontal by now. But, um, yeah, I mean, we've got so many big questions to answer about who and what we are as a society now because frankly, I don't know, right? They take this takes time to come to terms with this kind of change, cultural, social, economic change. The stuff that we're going through at the moment takes a huge amount of time to come to terms with.
We've not even framed the right questions yet publicly in the public square. We haven't done that, let alone consider the answer. It's so accelerated. It's so profound and we are struggling so much. What we really need to do is think about the very basics.
You know, get control of the borders, stop mass immigration, stop the benefits, just do the basics, do the obvious stuff, stop procrastinating, and just get on with it.
>> Philip, thank you. That's Philip Kisley there on im on the immigration surge on Goulders Green as well. He is the senior fellow of the new culture forum. Uh, we'll do calls just after the break.
0344991000.
Just before we do, let me read out a message from Debbie who says, "Where is anti-racist protester Lenny Henry?" Um, I'm not aware of anything he's put on social media. Let's just check that over the break as well. What Lenny Henry has said or not said. Blue Bell in London says, uh, "Love your show. Is Starmer watching Arsenal versus Atletico Madrid at the moment? And if so, why is he not in Goulders Green?" He did say he would go as soon as he could. When is that?
It's it's it's quarter past 9. Where is he? Uh why is the prime minister not there? Yeah, okay. You go into Cobra, you go into government emergency committee, you coordinate the response.
That's fine. We've had the leader of the Conservative Party. We've had the uh deputy leader of Reform UK down there.
Uh the city can't not there either. He gave a state he gave a statement at least the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, someone I've been very very critical of, went down there and was there with the local MP Sarah Sackman herself, someone who's been criticized uh in all of this as well.
They were heckled as they spoke. At least they had the balls to go. Where are you Sadik Khan? Where are you here?
Starmer, are you watching Arsenal right now? Is that what you're doing? I think I know where you should be. Stay with us here on talk.
Heat. Heat.
Olivia Mar.
They sent us a picture that made me feel so ashamed. We look like hoarders.
>> Chris Marshall.
>> Yeah, I'm actually recovering from an accident right now.
>> You've landed loose today, haven't you?
>> Yeah. Don't shake the arm Chris too much.
>> Emily >> with Danny Bole who's like the maddest director ever. He's got so much energy.
He's like you got some money to spend weekend.
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>> Well, Debbie, we found out and Lenny Henry doesn't appear to have said anything on what's happened in Golder Screen. He was doing interviews on the media this morning, for example. Uh, but of course, this happened since then, but he doesn't seem to have said anything.
Gary Linker doesn't seem to have said anything. It's funny how these people have opinions on many, many news stories. But when it comes to Jews, when it comes to anti-Semitic hatred, racism against Jewish people, they're just very, very silent. I'd love to know what Lenny Henry thinks. I'd love to know what uh Gary Linker thinks. And if they say anything in the next 40 minutes, I promise you we'll let you know. We'll keep an eye on it. Let's speak to Ranchet, who is in South Hall. Ranchet, you're very welcome to the program. What would you like to say?
>> Uh hello there, Pete. Yeah, basically uh uh what it is there seems to be two-tier sort of a system going on in this country. Uh like I think Margaret Sach said that everybody's equal uh but some are more equal than others.
>> I think it was George Orwell in Animal Farm, but yeah. Um certainly it's it's it's certainly something that is is a a well-worn phrase and and something that I think we're seeing in our society at the moment.
Uh well I think what what it is it now applies to everybody else and uh uh and so Muslims and Islam Islamists are basically more equal than others now. So we just seen um the uh situation with various uh uh legal cases where the u attack in at the uh uh Manchester airport the uh the >> Do you know what I just want to be really careful about that one specifically Ranchet because there is a retrial coming on that. So let's I I I take the general point but just to keep us both out of court let let's let's just let's just say you've made that point and and tell me the rest of your points if you would. Well, basically I'm just saying with everything that's been going on this on the streets of London, you now have the anti- sort of is ismophobia law coming in as well. So rather than actually dealing with this situation head on, what the government seems to be doing is seems to be the usual practice of appeasement to be of the vote bank. And until they do this, until they address that, this is unfortunately this sort of situation is going to continue.
Ranet, thanks for your thoughts. I really appreciate those. Just some breaking news in the last few minutes.
Uh Donald Trump and uh President Putin, Vladimir Putin and President Trump have held their first call uh for a number of weeks. Uh they discussed the war in Iran. They floated a temporary ceasefire in Ukraine. This is a phone call uh that happened earlier. It lasted more than 90 minutes. The Russian president reportedly saying Moscow viewed the prospect of a US ground operation in Iran as dangerous while welcoming Trump's decision to extend a ceasefire in the region. That's according to Yuri Ushikov who is Putin's foreign policy adviser. Trump later said, "We had a very good conversation. I've known him a long time." So, if there's more information that comes out of that, we will of course uh let you know what uh happened there and what the two sides are saying about that. Andrea is in Coventry has given me a ring in 03444991000.
Andrea, you're very welcome to the program. What would you like to say?
>> Hello. Thank you for having me. I'd like to read a short poem if I could please, Peter. I think it's quite fitting with some of your callers this evening.
>> Please go ahead.
>> Okay. It was written by a pastor on Nazi Germany, Martin Nemo, and it's called First They Came. First they came for the Socialists. And I did not speak out because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics but I did not speak out because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out.
>> It is a famous poem and it is well worth revisiting on this evening, Andrea. And let me tell you, I saw a play, a very moving play when I was about 16, 15 or 16 years old, uh, called And Then They Came for Me. And it was about, uh, a woman called Eva Schllo, who her, you're familiar with her, her her, um, uh, Otto Frank married her mother, and she became a sort ofostumous halfsister essentially of Anne Frank. an incredibly moving play and it brought home to me at quite a young age actually the the nature of this and if we don't speak out for our Jewish friends right now uh they are going to come for us. It first it's the Saturday people then it's the Sunday people.
>> Yes. And it's it's not just it's just about what's blooming right after the Manchester and London um um attacks a few weeks ago. I rang both mosques at the both both um >> synagogues >> synagogues and left a message of love, peace and support to both.
>> Good for you. Good for you.
>> And I' I'd just like to say that K star his rotten government and that horrible little man Sadik Khan sickened me to my stomach.
>> Thank you Andrea. Really good to talk to you and thank you for your very very strongly held sentiments there. I totally understand them, particularly on a day like today.
Becky says, "Thank you to everyone at talk for your support and excellent coverage of the utterly horrendous attacks today in Golders Green. Since Samara spoke to the young Jewish school boy this afternoon, I've been thinking about what he said that she uh should be that he should be brave enough to say he will carry carry on wearing his kippa, but felt scared." Just touched my heart and brought tears to my eyes. I hope his parents are so proud of him for his courage not only uh speaking on air to Samarill but also in expressing his thoughts at a time when the Goldish Green Jewish community must be so worried. When I watched Sadique Khn speaking in response to the incident, I thought it was so flat. It was just words, no emotion in his voice. His face was blank. How can anyone watching that believe he meant a word he said? Peter, I mirror your words to I without hesitation stand with our Jewish friends and community in this country. And Becky uh sends further sentiments thanking the team. I appreciate that, Becky. We're just doing our job and the point is that we want to give you a voice. I've given that to you, Becky. I let me give it now to Martin in Cambridge. He's giving me a ring on 0344991000.
Martin, tell me what's on your mind this evening.
>> Quite a bit, Peter. Uh, first of all, let's let's go back to 1290 when the Jews were expelled from this country.
So, Jew hate and Jew phobia is nothing new. It's been going on. I'm nearly 85.
I remember Mosley. Sir Oswald Mosley.
>> Okay.
>> British Union fascist. Yeah.
>> There's always Yeah, there's always been an undercurrent here >> and there's been peaks and troughs all the time, but this is the worst I've known of it. Um, and I'm very grateful indeed, as I'm sure most Jewish people are, to have TV. Um, but what I really want to say is I've been beating a couple of things here. Um, first of all, how can anybody defend the Jews when we can't even defend the country?
>> Mhm.
>> We have open borders. We've got people coming in from third world countries and they've got nothing in common. Um, people are being arrested if we're lucky and then we never hear anymore. If on the other hand you complain about a black person or or a Muslim in particular or even about illegal immigrants, ask Lucy Connelly, you'll end up in jail. So yes, there is a definite two-tier form of justice here which is no surprise for me with somebody like Star. Now, so far as Starmmer is concerned, Sadi Khan Roi or Rowi and then we've got Mahmud, the home secretary whom I understand is a support of the Kamas party. So now there's >> Sorry, what? Just say that again. Sorry, >> Mahmood the >> Shabban Mmud the home secretary.
>> Yeah, she was >> she she's not a supporter of mass. That that's not true. That's not true, Martin.
>> Well, it's okay. Okay. Well, there's certainly >> she's she's certainly been on marches in the past in support of the Palestinian cause, but she's not a supporter of Hamas. That's not true.
>> Well, okay. Okay. So, she's been on the marches for Palestinian cause. Um, anybody who does that, generally speaking, they're not particularly funny to Jews of Israel.
>> Okay. I'm sure she would deny that allegation, but Martin, you're totally entitled to your opinion.
>> Okay, fine. And now so far Gary Mon brought something up which is about what you know what are they going to do about it? Why aren't questions being asked in parliament from all the parties? What will you do? When will you start? And what is your objective have I know none of them have ever been in business because otherwise they'd be thinking about time and being specific and everything else as well and they're not.
They're just all words. There's nothing here. We need the army.
>> But look, my my youngest daughter, who's now 47, I'm nearly 85.
>> My youngest daughter was a uh um a police uh DCI constable.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> senior rank. Senior rank. You must be very proud of her.
>> Sorry. No. Yeah, I am. I'm very proud of her. She's in America now. She's got a better life. But what I would say is um that it all goes back to Theresa May because under her that the police were ridiculed and it's just going down and down and then Tony Blair had his ideas.
We need somebody in government in parliament to ask and demand change. It I won't go over everything that everybody else has been going going on about. I honestly believe there will be a further exodus in this country which has already started by the way and I would I would honestly suggest people look up on their search engine for Jews of prominence in the United Kingdom or prominent UK Jews to see just what we have contributed to this country.
>> I know exactly what you mean Martin and and that can that can never be forgotten. Listen, thanks for your sentiments this evening. Very very interesting to hear from you. Leslie says, "Philip Kesley is mistaken. We have asked the questions. We have asked for control of immigration and what happened? We were ignored and labeled far-right racist." David in the Cotswwells says after World War II, Germany entered a program of denazification. That was an active program. It is not nearly enough for the UK government to begin a program to educate people, not to be anti-semitic.
We need to begin a program of deextreme Islamism. if not the horrors of today will continue to be repeated, says David. Um, thank you for that, David. I really appreciate that. I appreciate everybody who's been in touch. Uh, let's get one more call uh before we go to the break. Uh, Debbie is in Lincolnshire.
She's given me a ring in 0344991000.
Debbie, tell me what's on your mind this evening.
>> Hey, how are you?
>> Very well, thank you. Please go ahead.
Do you know what I find very odd um just personally now is the fact we've got a prime minister that's married to a Jewish lady Vicki his wife.
>> Yeah.
>> And he just doesn't seem to care >> and I just find that odd.
>> A lot of people feel a lot of people feel that way. We had someone on earlier uh this evening. I don't >> saying that.
>> You're not not at all Debbie. I absolutely entitled to your opinion that I'm just I'm simply saying that earlier on this evening we spoke to the former number 10 director for communications who says look he feels Kier Armor feels this very strongly. My my point to that and maybe I should have said this at the time Debbie was if you feel it really strongly you are the prime minister of the United Kingdom. You have awesome power. You have a huge majority. You can do something about this. And Debbie, I'm not sure he has the political will, the personal will, the belief, the wherewithal, the coahones, whatever you want to say to actually deal with this problem. What do you think?
>> But would you not support your partner?
Because I support my partner in everything he does. All right, we don't agree every time, but you know, I support him, which is why we're together. Um, but why would you not stand up and go, hold on. And like I said um on a message earlier is you know I was in Jibralta and I put my hat pretty much what JK did and I said sorry to someone on the plane back from Jibralta to the UK and I went you going home and he went yes I am. I was like I'm so sorry. He went thank you. I just don't understand. Why can't we leave everyone alone? I don't I don't understand why >> people are just being picked on because I was in South Woodford and they were just cutting about and they're harmless.
Why Why are we picking on them?
>> It it's it's it's horrendous and it's even worse than picking on them. It's it's this dreadful thing that is happening. And you know, Debbie, I'm going to make an assumption that that you're not Jewish and I'm you know, I'm not Jewish and there's so many people who want to do something. They want to help in some way. You were you was a very human gesture in that plane back from Gibralar. But so many people feel powerless. But there are people with awesome power. There are people like the prime minister. There are people like the mayor of London. A multi-billion pound budget. He could do could do loads on this. The conservatives could done loads on this when they're in power.
They could have banned those hate marches for example. Uh you know Kier Starmer's prime minister has billions of pounds at his disposal. He has the awesome power of being prime minister and he just doesn't use that. And what what seems to me the case, Debbie, is when there's something they really care about, they call Parliament back on a Saturday to see if British steel. I mean, they could do basically what they want if they really wanted to solve this problem.
>> Exactly.
And I'm I'm like you. I mean, I'm I've been christened, but I don't practice. I I don't I don't go to church every Sunday.
>> I used to be agnostic, but I'm now I'm not so sure.
>> Well, but yeah, I I'm the same. But I'm not being funny. I don't care what anyone's religion is as long as I don't like rum it down my throat. It's like just do what you want to do. But I find it very odd and maybe I'll get shot down for this. I find it very strange that the the prime minister is married to a Jewish lady uh and he's not protecting them. Come on guy. Seriously.
>> I think a lot of people will uh agree with you Debbie and quite a few people raising that question. Thanks for that Debbie. That's Debbie in Lincolnshire there. We will continue to talk about this right up to 10:00, but we're going to take a little pause just after the break in a moment or two uh because we're going to uh talk about the king in the United States, what he has done there, and also the fact that today, rightly or wrongly, and it'll be very interested to hear people's opinion on this, mark the end of hereditary peers in this country. They're gone now from the House of Lords. We'll get one of my favorite guests uh David uh one of my favorite guests uh Daniel Britain who is a constitutional parliamentary and royal historian is on next. He was on on Monday and we just had to get it back today for the end of the heredity peers.
This guy just knows everything about uh the history of parliament. He's sort of the nerds nerd in many ways and I'm a nerd uh if nothing else. We'll also of course take more calls and if you want to get your call in on any topic but particularly people tonight certainly want to talk about uh uh golder screen and if you want to talk about it we'll talk about it. This is my show but it's your show too. 03444991000.
Stay with us Heat. Heat.
across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side. This is talk.
Alex and Cardiff says, "Can I thank Einstein, Martin Lewis, who helps British people survive the financial crisis. Can I thank Lord Alan Sugar? May I thank Rachel Riley who fights for Jewish rights. May I thank James Max for looking after the Royal Albert Hall. May I thank all Jewish people who work and live in Britain and what each one of you uh do for us who live here. May I pray they all remain safe. Alex, thank you for that lovely message. Leslie says, "Apparently, Dr. Schula has posted on the media the way the police tackled the suspect was too harsh." Do you know, I saw this earlier. I was sitting with a colleague earlier on and uh this is the uh she she was questioning Dr. a well-known media commentator um who I think has absolutely apparent views was questioning and saying why the police acted so harshly. I mean they tasered the guy and then they arrested him. Um the guy was holding a knife and they were trying to get the knife off him.
That is what the police do. That is what they're entitled to do. Um I would be very interested if that person had been in America. I uh whether they would still be alive. I think that would have been uh not that would not have been the case. I think the British police acted brilliantly in this case. the constables or the officers who dealt with that and certainly they are to be praised. I know there was a man as well who's in the Telegraph tomorrow who um had uh brilliantly uh tackled this guy very very bravely indeed. Sharon has been in touch uh with a voice note on this.
Let's hear what Sharon has to say.
>> Oh my goodness, Pisa. What next has got to happen for this government to start putting the British people first? What's happened today to them pure Jewish community? The British Jew Jewish community is an absolute disgrace.
Absolute disgrace. And it won't be long before it's all of us who are under attack. Why are them politicians in the House of Commons stand up and say this is a national emergency? It's an absolute disgrace. They want to hang their heads in shame cuz what they do and they've put all of us at risk. The country's in the gutter. They're the worst governments I've ever known in me life. what the laughing stock across the world what they're doing to us and it's disgusting. I'm absolutely disgusted.
They want to hang their heads in shame.
They really do.
>> Sharon, thank you. I agree with almost every word of that. The only thing I disagree with is when you say we'll all be under attack soon. All of us are under attack right now. This is not just about Jewish people. This is about all of us. This is people who believe in Western values, freedom, democracy, women's rights, gay rights, uh the freedom of speech. There are so many people who were who a way of life was under attack today. Yes, the Jewish community. I take nothing away from that. Yes, there is dreadful anti-semitism there, but it represents something more widely as well. So, Sharon, you make some really, really good points. I'm not contradicting it.
I'm simply adding to it. The Times is reporting that Angela Rainer is considering a leadership challenge against Kier Starmer straight after May's local elections. Allies are urging her to move quickly to avoid giving Wes Streeting more time to win over Tory MPs. It is the times reporting that. No doubt that will be part of our discussions tomorrow. And speaking about parliament, uh something happened today.
It was prugged. Uh that is a technical term. And with the pruggation, the end of this parliament, the next parliamentary session starting that starts with a king's speech which will be after the local elections. Well, with that pruggation came the end of hereditary peers. Now, one hereditary person who's made a big impact is the king. We'll talk about him in a minute or two. But I want to speak to Daniel Britain, the constitutional royal and parliamentary historian who joins me now about the end of hereditary peers and about pruggation. Daniel, where does the phrase prugation come from?
>> My goodness, Peter, I haven't the faintest idea.
>> Thank you, Daniel. Good evening.
>> Is to sort of what it means is it's not to end this parliament, it's to suspend it for a bit. And that's what the derivation of the word is. Parliament is now suspended from today, which is what the 29th of April until, as you say, the king opens the new session of parliament on May the 13th.
>> And when he does so, Daniel, >> so it's a period of suspension.
>> And when he does that, when that king's speech happened, I was very privileged as a special adviser to hear the last time the queen did a Queen Elizabeth II.
It was a pretty amazing uh time and had a really good seat as well. Um the the hereditary peers will no longer be there. Tell us a bit about that and what you think that signals.
>> I don't think hundreds of millions of people are going to weep for the loss of the hereditary peers. So I will stick in a good word for them. The remaining hereditary peers just 80 or so at the moment actually on the whole there are exceptions on the whole have worked very hard in the house of lords and in parliament. I think the reason for that is we had a big reform of the house of lords in 1999 and hundreds of hereditary peers were thrown out. Now, as part of the behind the scenes deals on that, they allowed 92 to remain and they would be elected by their fellow peers and I think because they've been elected um they feel obliged to work quite hard and most of them have. So there are some great names amongst them. Amazingly some have been there an extremely long time. Lord Tref Gahan left the Lords and he'd been there what 60 61 years. Uh the Earl of Caith Ness has left and he'd been there 56 years. Uh one person who's left today, he might come back because they are making some life peers for the most active hereditaries is how he's everyone in the Lords's favorite peer even though he's an hereditary. Um because he's an incredibly nice bloke. It's it's really interesting because there's so many people who are made members of the House of Lords. They're appointed. There are people who are there because they're mates of the prime minister and successive prime ministers or they're there for all sorts of different reasons. The Lords, I think, is one of the most misunderstood parts of our parliamentary democracy. Not not that there's much that's democratic about it.
But I I mean, I suppose the question is who's a better person to scrutinize the law in the House of Lords? Is it someone who simply happens to have been a mate of the prime minister or uh someone who's there for their expertise or someone who's there simply because of a matter of their birth?
>> This has always been the big question when looking at how you set up the households, how you might reform it because there are plenty of people who think that peers just appointed by the prime minister are not so much better than hereditary peers. Least hereditary peers have a sort of certain random element about them and they are quite random, very different. You tend to get some young ones too, but you certainly don't amongst the life peers. Um, so many people would argue uh that uh uh you know they're no worse, no better than life peers appointed by the prime minister. In fact, the Earl of Devon uh who left today uh he said, "Oh, I'm quite happy going really." um he was the only person I met who actually was fighting for the hereditary peers. He felt the hereditary peers should go on.
That's not a common view. But I think when they had the reforms in 1911, 1999 and again in the Labor manifesto for these reforms that always say the parties say we will before we get to a much better form of House of Lords, we're going to do this. And the trouble is they do the first stage of it in this case getting rid of the hereditaries.
They never go on to make further reforms to the House of Lords which might make it um a bit better.
>> Speaking of people who got their job uh because of birth but nonetheless I would argue especially in the last 24 48 hours have done an absolutely brilliant job.
Uh the king is in America at the moment.
Let's have a little look at just one of the many quips that he's had in uh some of the speeches to Congress. last night.
We looked a little bit of that live. Uh and he was speaking in the White House as well. Let's see a little bit of what he said there.
>> Indeed, you recently commented, Mr. President, that if it were not for the United States, European countries would be speaking German.
Dare I say that if it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking French.
Daniel, we spoke on Monday about the king's visit. that a lot of people said he shouldn't have gone. A lot of people said that special relationship is in all sorts of uh peril. He certainly patched things up in the last couple of days.
>> I think he's had an extraordinary successful visit. Peter, he's a good speech maker. I mean, I think you have to say unlike his mother who was tremendous at being queen, he does have a natural ability to deliver a speech as if he means it, and he probably does mean it. Um he rarely talks his heart into these speeches. They were very cleverly woven and he's managed to say some incredibly rude things about Donald Trump but has smuggled them in and Donald Trump has just gone onto his back rolling his roll over on his tummy waiting to be patted by the king and keeps going woof woof please tell me more.
>> What did they say about diplom performance?
>> Diplomacy can be the art of being rude but nobody notices. It's some it's some sort of phr. It's just gone out of my head at the moment. But um I mean he has he has played a blinder there and the bell. Tell us about the bell. I mean that was that was quite the quite the gift there. The bell from HMS Trump was it?
>> I know the gift from I know. Absolutely amazing that isn't it? I don't know.
Didn't know we had a um um a submarine called HMS Trump. I don't suppose we were doing any other Trump ships in the immediate future, but um uh who knows?
Well, maybe he will be. Maybe I tell you what, we should the next aircraft carrier uh we we make um we should call that HMS Trump because it said it was just a toy, didn't he?
>> Well, that's that's right. Yes, he was he was spectacular.
>> Rather like the uh um the one for the little submarine that um what was he called? Boaty McVat.
>> Yes, exactly. I once had a little uh mini fridge in my office uh which was known as Frigid McFridge Face. Um thank you Daniel. Much appreciated, Daniel Britain there, parliamentary, constitutional and royal historian. Just a couple more lines coming out of the times. I mentioned a minute ago that Angela Raina apparently considering a leadership challenge against Kier Starmer straight after May's local elections. I mean, how she does that with this HMRC um investigation going on. I would question that. Allies urging her to move quickly to avoid giving West Streeting more time to win over Labor MPs. He is a bit damaged by the Mlesson scandal certainly. Uh he is the health secretary and from a different wing of the party to her. A textter says if Rener becomes prime minister the government will fall very soon after as she's a walking disaster for the country and the markets will make their move says that person. The times also reporting uh tomorrow that Sarmmer has told allies he does not want to carry out a reshuffle after local elections saying it would be a distraction. I mean that in itself I think speaks volumes as well. Lots to discuss in all of that. A couple more messages. Uh one person says I've only recently got into politics.
I'm disappointed about the amount of time that Parliament is on holiday. The taxpayers who fund them don't get uh part-time term time. Come on. No wonder everyone is on the dual lead by example.
Parliament does spend a lot of time off, but a lot of those MPs would say that they work hard in their constituencies in the time that Parliament isn't happening. Some do, some don't, is my experience. Alex and Cardiff says, "Let's watch how many missiles land on Ukraine tonight because we go through all this again and again with Trump and Putin and their phone calls," says Alex.
And another person says, "Scrapping hereditary peers just adds more corruption in my opinion. At least the hereditary ones are feeling the energy crunch. The socialist loveies have their shares in cryptocoin money and sell their souls to foreign hostile governments for cash." Uh, I'm not quite sure how you know that, but certainly there have been incidences of that happening. Uh, lots more to discuss.
We'll take more of your calls and we will have a chat with Patri Hoskin. She is coming up between 10 and 1, but I'll speak to you first just after the break.
Stay with us.
Olivia M.
>> They sent us a picture that made me feel so ashamed. We look like a border.
>> Chris Marshall.
>> Hey, I'm actually recovering from an accident right now.
>> You've landed loose today, haven't you?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Don't shake the arm, Chris.
Too much.
>> You're with Danny Bole, who's like the maddest director ever. He's got so much energy. He's like you got some money.
across the UK on DAB+ on your smart speaker on your smart TV and on your side.
This is talk.
>> Todd says, "I agree with your texture, Jeffrey. The country is already gone.
There's plenty of evidence for it.
Summer is coming. Welcome to the self-induced lopsided racist park egg of the politicians making," says Tad. Uh, Metalberger says, "I was diagnosed with depression when it was unfashionable to have metal a mental health issue was 1992. Has led to a life of long struggle culminating eventually in numerous admissions to hospital and ANA. I'm very sorry to hear that. Now, as 47 years old, I've finally found the perfect combination of medication, which seems to help a lot. In 2026, it seemed having a mental health condition is the norm.
What's more normal human emotions than being diagnosed as ADHD, anxiety, depression, bipolar, and many other disorders, when in truth, there are often standard responses to life events?
I would implore anyone who is feeling depressed to see a psychiatrist to get your GP to refer uh to you. Um, thank you to this person who says, "Reforming General, Ty, in particular, aren't the solution. their bandwagon jumping bandwagon jumping and failing to own their uh own their own part in the violence and intolerance being suffered at the moment. It'd be very interested to hear what your thought is about why reform UK has has caused this. A weak man is incapable of strong leadership uh says one person. Rey says as well as the measures outlined in your program, the Iranian embassy must be closed. The Palestinian embassy as well. How can there be an embassy for a non-existent country? Julie says more blood on this vile government hands. When will they be held accountable and punished for inflicting all these atrocities? They do nothing to protect our people and our streets. It is disgusting. Let's hear from Joan in Sunderland who's given me a ring at 0344991000.
Joan, you are very welcome to the program. What would you like to say?
>> Uh hello.
>> Hello there.
>> Um I'd just like to say how upset I am at what has happened today at Golders Green. I'm not surprised and sadly I don't think this is the last time we'll hear of incidents like this.
>> Yeah, >> this government is an absolute waste of space. All we'll get is words. They'll do nothing. I'm fed up of two tier policing. Um hate marches where nothing is done. I've spoken to you before about that piece of trash Pascal Robinson Foster. I'm also not a fan >> the other way. But yes, but the Met are supposed to be um checking, you know, the last time it was reported to the police and they were looking into it.
Have I missed the result or are they still looking?
>> Well, they just seem to have no uh response or any action that happened when he repeated death of the IDF that happened at the Alud protest in London.
Joan, where does this all end? How do we get out of this?
I don't know that's derel dereliction of duty but um when you come to think about this look at the football uh match that was it Aston Villa there was a problem >> yes Macabi T playing Aston Villa that was a few months ago yeah >> yes but as I say this government has spent its time working out what uh to do about we've got Uh what is it? Anti-Muslim hate zar.
>> Yeah.
>> Yet have I missed the anti- anti-semitism and and and also can one person actually change the views of of thousands, tens of thousands, possibly millions of people. Joan, you make some really good points. Uh just before we speak to Patri Hoskin, I want to bring in Grace from London. Grace, we don't have a huge amount of time, but maybe you could uh tell me your point.
Yeah, I I think as you just said a moment ago, unfortunately, one person won't be able to change the views of of lots of people and I think that just making this about blaming the government might not necessarily be the right approach. It's a disgusting problem within some human minds. Um, and we have had in our country for a long time this idea that we should aim to love our neighbors. And and that comes from one Jewish man explaining the Jewish law to some people who were listening to him.
Some people came up to Jesus and said, you know what? What should we do? And one of the things he says is, you know, that the Jewish law says you should love your neighbors. And then they say, well, who are our neighbors? And then Jesus tells them the parable of the good Samaritan, which is about having respect and compassion and and neighborly love for people, even if they're from a different ethnic background. But what we now have, having had that principle for a long time in our country, is we have the erosion of that principle. And some people thinking that you should demonize and hate people in in the way that we're seeing now. And it's horrifying.
>> Grace, thank you for your point. I really appreciate that. Thus, Grace, in London, apparently people have been chanting Kier Starmer Jew hater at the Golders Green attack site. Uh they've also been talking about IRGC saying IRG terrorists put them on the list. Well, ironically, actually, it's Kirst that that appears to be doing that actually with the king's speech. I'd be astonished if that is not in. Also, shame on you, Sadik is what people have been chanting there as well. while emotions are running very very high. Uh thank you to everybody who's been in touch this evening. Patrick Hoskin, I'm sure at least some of this will be coming up in your show this evening.
>> Absolutely. In fact, I want to talk about it uh at midnight for the talkback hour um but more broadly on hatred in this country. you know, this this visceral hatred that we're seeing um not just towards the Jewish communities, although at the moment, of course, that is that is what's happening, but with with so many and I'm I just don't know what the answer is to this or where it's come from or why we've gone from being called Britannia to to this really kind of hating on each other kind of and it's dangerous, right? We've seen that sort of level of hate today and how dangerous it can get. And we've seen attacks particularly in London, but also in Manchester and places like that. So, it's just I don't know how we get to grip.
>> It's a very very divided society.
There's so many reasons. I'm sure that's going to be a really good phone in because there's so many reasons for it.
>> So many reasons for it and it's it's just so tragic and sad and awful. Um, so I want to talk about that at midnight.
We're going to kick off with the with the uh terror attack. We're also going to be talking about uh the king uh and what a blinder he's pulled. Absolutely.
>> Um, and we're going to be looking at the renters's rights bill as well.
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