Mr. Colada - Phygitals Turned Childhood Pokémon Packs Into a $180M On-Chain Marketplace on Solana

Added: 2026-05-06

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[00:00:37]>> [music] >> Everybody, welcome to The Index. I'm your host, Alex Cahaya, and today my guest, uh Jake, he turned a childhood ritual of ripping open Pokémon packs into a 180 million on-chain marketplace on Solana.

[00:01:05]Jake, really interested to learn more about your story. Um thanks for coming on the show.

[00:01:10]Cheers. Yeah, thank you for having me, Alex.

[00:01:13]So, tell me more about what before, you know, we get into what you've built, um just tell me more about yourself, what gets you out of bed in the morning, why you're here uh working on this.

[00:01:22]Yeah, uh my name is Jake from Toronto, 26 years old. Uh super interested in the intersection of of tech and collectibles.

[00:01:32]Uh always been a pretty big collector.

[00:01:34]Um like most, huge into Pokémon uh in my childhood, and um yeah, through my life journey sort of ended up working on Phygitals, which I'm sure we'll dive into.

[00:01:46]And uh yeah, extremely motivated to um to kind of see our whole thesis play out, and uh to commitments I've made to to family and friends and our team. So, yeah, excited to chat.

[00:01:59]Tell me more about what Phygitals is, and um yeah, the vision you have for the company.

[00:02:07]Yeah, uh so, the TLDR is Phygitals is a marketplace uh for tokenized collectibles, similar to platforms like eBay, although everything is tokenized on-chain uh as an NFT on Solana, and it represents a digital twin of the physical counterpart that's stored securely in a vault. And through having delegated custody of this tokenized uh twin, you can do things like buy, sell, trade, hold it, uh and there's a whole programmable layer um kind of from this this tech. And so, that's what we've more or less built. We have uh the marketplace, social components, uh pack ripping, and a whole lot more kind of cooking up on on everything.

[00:02:52]So, these are like real physical assets.

[00:02:56]Yeah. Yeah, everything right now we're just into trading cards. Uh and we started with Pokémon. Now, there's quite a few different TCGs. Uh One Piece is probably our second biggest one, and they're all physically backed in three partner vaults that we utilize.

[00:03:14]What are the Tell me more about the the vault system? I'm curious how you guys secure these things and track them.

[00:03:20]Yeah, so originally, uh before we started, we looked at doing our own vault, and then we looked at a partner uh called Brinks.

[00:03:28]And then, uh you know, there's kind of different solutions that exist, different pricing, different complexities. And then we actually found that, rather than getting into the vaulting business, which is a whole other business and one that's quite difficult, um we would rely on trusted third parties.

[00:03:47]So, we use the PSA vault, Fanatics vault, and Alt vault. And uh within each vault, we have dedicated teams, weekly calls with each teams, and our cards are more or less spread across um all of these vaults.

[00:04:02]And yeah, there's some cool things we can do within each vault uh that we wouldn't be able to do if we had our own in terms of liquidity and grading and so on.

[00:04:11]So, if I'm if I'm a collector and I have some like really valuable Pokémon cards, do I send them to one of these vaults, and then now they're tradeable?

[00:04:20]Yeah, so uh I can give Alt as an example. So, Alt vault, you you can go on our site, send it to uh our vault with Alt, and uh they will intake the card, verify it's real, they'll do a digital scan of it, it gets ingested, and then we get notified uh through a back-end database, and then we tokenize it with metadata properties uh like photo scans, and then you can do uh anything you'd like with it on our platform. And whoever owns that tokenized uh card in the end can then burn the the NFT to redeem it in person.

[00:04:58]And I'm curious, so this is built on Solana. What what led you to decide to build on Solana? What was broken in other chains or networks or led to that decision to focus on Solana?

[00:05:10]Yeah, so uh it's quite interesting.

[00:05:14]Obviously, if you're a Web3 product, I think your first and core question should be which blockchain you'll build on.

[00:05:22]Which is a pretty important question.

[00:05:24]Um and at the time uh with Solana, uh and I mean, here and throughout, Solana has always had a very vibrant and active collector ecosystem.

[00:05:36]One that's pretty hard to beat.

[00:05:38]And uh the very cool thing within Web3, I think, is people can start businesses and launchpad ideas, and utilize these different ecosystems and blockchains as a kickstarter. And Solana is obviously um in its own class in this regard to to people who are kind of doing these sorts of things. So, um at the time, we were very tapped into different Solana NFT communities, uh the culture there. We had a whole go-to-market uh surrounding giving cards out for free to to these different Solana communities, and yeah, the whole reason we sort of exist is kind of because of the bootstrapping that Solana offered in in terms of community and culture.

[00:06:21]We mentioned bootstrapping. Are you guys a bootstrapped company?

[00:06:24]We started Phygitals. Um so, this all kind of started uh to be a collectible marketplace uh first and foremost first and foremost. And and then through the storage and custody side of things, uh we quickly concluded that cards were the most cost-efficient to to start with. And I was actually renovating my parents' house and had all my childhood Pokémon cards in my office, and things kind of just clicked. And then we said, you know, let's start with Pokémon cards. I was actually going to tokenize some of my childhood cards, uh but they were all extremely destroyed, so they went back into storage, and we pooled in together, bought $4,000 worth of Pokémon cards from eBay, uh brand new ungraded. And our plan was to kind of tokenize these as a low-cost and efficient GTM to get our initial user base.

[00:07:21]Um and then since then, uh we've been self-funded, all revenue has pretty much been reinvested into growing the platform. Uh aside from the founders, we have a few strategics on our cap table um that are just somewhat industry giants and household names in the collectible space, but yeah, we've uh every dollar that's made has been reinvested in the business, and that's how it's been uh been working so far. That's pretty impressive. I love that. I love that you guys have basically bootstrapped the whole way. And And it I read somewhere you guys had have like 180 million in volume or something. What's the What are the stats from the marketplace now? Yeah, we started with the ungraded cards as an airdrop, and then we had a $1 claw machine, which people could engage with to get a randomized card, and then we had a $25 claw machine.

[00:08:17]Uh and that claw machine started generating uh revenue and profit, and that was reinvested, and from those two events, we are just about to hit 180 million uh in volume, and half of that would be pack purchases, fraction a smaller fraction of marketplace activity, and then half of that would be the liquid funding uh buybacks on-chain uh where we provide liquidity and buy back cards.

[00:08:45]How does that work? Cuz I was going to ask about that. You're You're You offer, what is it, like 92% instant buybacks?

[00:08:50]How's that not crazy risky?

[00:08:54]Yeah, we have uh so, our partnership with Alt is pretty deep. Uh and for those who don't know, Alt Alt.xyz is pretty much the number one pricing oracle in uh collectible markets, and they also have a vault, which we utilize. And so, we utilize their pricing data and pricing oracle to pretty much be um the entire backbone of of how we value cards, what we buy them back at. Uh so, we buy back cards up to 92% um from 85 to 92%. And we also were one of the only platforms that have perpetual uh buybacks. So, at any given time, we'll have a 70% uh perpetual offer on any card.

[00:09:38]And yeah, it's um there's a whole kind of eng team that looks at this every day. Uh we go over any outliers, fix them, and and luckily, we have Alt as a as a good partner to rely on there. But so, if I'm a user and I've got cards listed for sale, I could just opt to sell it to you for up to 92%, but with a floor of 70. So I could take like a 30% haircut on what I paid for it but I'll definitely get some money back basically guaranteed. Is that the the the thinking behind that or is it the value prop?

[00:10:09]Yeah, so in the packs you'll get an instant buyback offer up to 92% which screws up on the higher end packs and that will just be instant liquidity on alt's fair market value of the card and then at any given point we try to provide users liquidity with that floor offer and and yeah, we see a lot of people utilize it.

[00:10:33]Some people I mean there's a whole liquidity issue and fragmentation here but I mean I'm sure we can get into and and yeah, it's it's proven to be useful and a lot of people tend to keep the cards digitized to either hold or to liquid liquidate.

[00:10:48]And so I buy a pack and I've got a bunch of random cards in this pack and then you know, I I see them on my screen and then I see these offers. I've never used your platform so I'm trying to visualize this a little bit. Um so I see them and then I get these offers and then I sell them to you.

[00:11:04]And did I just profit off of that?

[00:11:08]Or did I lose money and then how do you make money off of that?

[00:11:12]Yeah, good question.

[00:11:14]Um so every pack we have in terms of the claw machines slash gold shot is there's different price ranges so different packs like a 25, 50, 250 all the way up to $2,500 and within each pack there's different there's different cards so different chase cards, different like ball cards all the odds on each pack is transparent per pack and live in real time and the expected value of when you purchase one of these packs is actually higher than the pack price. That's a competitive edge we offer and some other platforms offer.

[00:11:58]So you know, we've had a a store that comes onto our platform and just rips thousands of packs and on average is getting a bit more out of what they're putting in and then redeems them to their store to sell. And then we have users uh who will rip them and sell back what they don't like. In that case we offer let's say 92% of the fair market value and then we secure the delta of the difference at the 100% FMV.

[00:12:26]So yeah, that's how our platform and and most others make the revenue and profit.

[00:12:30]So you're taking the delta like so you're making a 10% or 8% or whatever on that.

[00:12:36]Um are you selling it back into the ecosystem at the 100% value or is it to like stores or where where are you where you offloading these cards to for for cash?

[00:12:46]Yeah, so the cards can recirculate in these packs. If somebody sells it back to us it just goes back into our vault account and then could be restocked in a pack. So cards can turn over quite a few times before you find a buyer who actually wants to to claim it and take it out. Um and then yeah, there's there's some other things we do with them. Some we just off ramp in person and bring them to shows or giveaway and etc. It's a really interesting business model. I mean I I just I knew nothing. I I was not a collect I didn't collect cards and stuff like that. I never really played Pokémon or whatever, you know, and so it's just a new ecosystem for me but yeah, the business model I can see how it just can go viral on encrypt. It's perfect like marriage of crypto and like physical a physical real world asset.

[00:13:39]Um Yeah, yeah, it's it's definitely interesting. I think it's it's kind of solving this existing flow of you had people you know, back in the day go and rip these packs open and then get the good cards, get them graded you know, bring it to a show or list it online and they kind of took that whole process and through I mean a better part of blockchain tech and the whole like web3 ecosystem can make it very like instant and liquefied so yeah, it's uh Yeah, it's a typically illiquid asset or you know, very slow moving market and now it's just the speed of light basically.

[00:14:16]Exactly. Right on.

[00:14:19]How so you start when did you start the company a couple years ago?

[00:14:23]So you've been in business for two years?

[00:14:25]No, we actually started a year ago.

[00:14:27]Um and we launched a year ago. We we were building a few months prior to launch.

[00:14:35]Um and so prior to launch we just kind of had a Figma file.

[00:14:41]The concept was kind of the overarching collectible marketplace on web3. I was a bit of a different vision.

[00:14:47]And uh and yeah, we we had the idea of tokenized collectible marketplace and then um and then had some frictions building it from there on.

[00:15:00]Uh after we completed a Figma which was done in house, we went and shopped around for dev shops which were quoting like 30, 40, 50k you know, three, four month build times which was not in our uh jurisdiction of making possible both on capital and time and throughout building the concept we came across a similar platform that's the biggest in web3 and said holy you know, these people have you know, almost our idea down to a T like we have to get moving. Uh and then from there we reached out to a childhood friend. He taught me how to recode. I'd studied commerce and comp sci. Uh and you know, got cloud, got cursor.

[00:15:44]Back in the day it was cursor. No one was using cloud code yet but yeah, speed run the front end, reached out to the smartest people I knew, offered equity and yeah, we put a small team together hopped on a plane, went to Solana founder villas to pitch the whole idea.

[00:16:01]I don't know if you want to get into that as well.

[00:16:02]>> No, yeah, keep going. I'm I'm curious to hear.

[00:16:06]Yeah, we we went to somewhat of a hackathon. Um It was I forget the exact name. It was like Solana founder villas in the UAE and the Solana foundation was there so yeah, we got on stage, pitched the idea.

[00:16:21]We had the front end, the whole whole thing uh and got shot down pretty bad. I think like seven of eight venture capitalists pretty much roasted us on stage saying you know, it's not going to work.

[00:16:35]There's no there's probably not a market. We don't see any selling point like the traction won't be there.

[00:16:41]Um so yeah, we got off that stage that night and one of the co-founders is pretty crushed. I was super motivated.

[00:16:49]I take great pleasure in proving people wrong that have general disbelief in saying something's not possible so from that day on we we worked extremely hard to make Digitals work with no funding and that's where all the creative go-to-market came with like the ungraded cards and figuring how you would scale from one step to the next in terms of how we could accrue revenue and reinvest it and kind of scale organically. Yeah, I want to talk about the business model more because I I'm curious, you know, you obviously grew up collecting and I'm wondering how much of the business model is inspired by the way you interacted with with these cards and buyers cards and buyers and sellers and packs and the whole sort of culture around collectibles and how much like where were the innovations in the business model that are new, right? Like I think I sense that there are some new things but I also don't think you completely had to reinvent the wheel there either. You just leveraged you know, a more liquid mar- market um as a better value prop but I'm curious like where you stand there. Like what what are new things about how you're making money, how you're structuring it versus what's more like in line with what the industry already was doing.

[00:18:07]Yeah, that's a good question.

[00:18:09]Um I think this general idea of like online commerce obviously everything has transitioned online and online just makes buying and selling easier of course. I think 20 years ago if I have some rare Charizard and I want to sell it um you know, I have to like create an advert or maybe utilize the tech back then find someone around the world who's interested in buying it communicate with them, figure out you know, the payment side of things maybe if it's a high value card and then all the logistics behind moving that card from person A to person B and uh so really our business on that side of things is just more simplified.

[00:18:55]And there's some web2 businesses that already have moved in this direction like the PSA vault. I think the idea of delegated custody is like the core unlock here that you can own something without moving it. Um and when you mix in the blockchain and DeFi into that we view these cards as like programmable tokens that can have like infinite use cases and so it's just figuring out what use cases do people really want? Like maybe maybe it's something to do with creating a pack or maybe they want to take loans out on their card or maybe they want to fractionalize it maybe they want to earn yield on it. Maybe they want to do peer-to-peer like trades with it and so yeah, that's kind of the foundation and then the layer we see on top of it.

[00:19:42]Um curious, are you guys going to raise capital or do you think you'll just keep bootstrapping? Like where you know, after getting shot down by seven VCs.

[00:19:53]Um I love that story, by the way. I think it's great. Um, I think most successful founders have been through that where they've just been shot down every time and then they find like one person or one customer that believes and then that's like how they get going, but I'm curious like are you guys are you guys going to raise and how are you looking at that?

[00:20:13]That's a good question. Uh Yeah, I mean back then like I guess whether you're I mean if you're building you're listening to this and you're building a product, I think you need to keep failing and uh you need to go through like these lower points and and work through them to to kind of see your idea and beliefs play out. So that's definitely important. Uh you know, we had a lot of VCs approach us. Uh some great people and firms uh we spent time with and you know, we were made quite a big uh we were made some pretty insane offers and uh we just decided to kind of keep things in house and uh like I mentioned like we have some strategic households names on the cap table and you know, a few of these guys have been huge mentors and our business is built on their infrastructure and I think there'll be a huge press release around it very shortly, but yeah, I think there's for us capital isn't really an issue and we're just more focused on a product uh like the consumer experience. I think these kind of businesses are becoming commodities pretty fast. There's there's a lot of similar platforms, a lot of new ones popping up and to us we're focused on uh kind of creating the mode we've been working on to to differentiate over capital.

[00:21:34]And what is that? What is the mode?

[00:21:37]Yeah, so for us um I mean we we believe you know, the whole gotcha uh side of things is a commodity and there's really no defensible position to be taken upon it. And so right now our focus has been more uh B2B. We have a huge infrastructure thesis that we can deploy everything we've built modularized through API layers or deployable storefronts that anyone in the world small shop, big shop, huge brands can essentially uh tap into what we've built, use the infrastructure and uh and we're going to sort of put all of our attention and energy uh in that area to to distribute the tech and have Phygitals as the underlying liquidity and infrastructure layer.

[00:22:27]Mhm. Yeah, that's really interesting and probably pretty sticky. So you're going to help like stores tap into this even more than than you have in the past. Um Sounds like that's what you're doing.

[00:22:39]How do you I'm curious about the market too like you know, crypto's been kind of in a bear market, I would say. Um or people you know, have been saying. I don't really know if that's true or not, but volumes definitely seem like they've been down and and revenue I think across the board for a lot of apps has been down.

[00:22:56]Um How how has that impacted your business?

[00:23:01]Um because it's different, right? Like you guys are dealing with these collectibles that are sort of an adjacent market. It's not crypto. You know, it's it's physical collectibles.

[00:23:10]Um and so I feel like my theory is that that just doesn't the cycle doesn't track the same way for the rest of the market, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's all crypto users using it um and so they're not using it as much, but I would love to see what are you seeing? Like how does that track or how do you view that?

[00:23:28]Yeah, that's uh So that's a pretty good uh like I think you're spot on. So I remember like back in October there was I mean there's been a few events and the cycle's been a bit different than most, but um there was that like October liquidation and I woke up and I was like you know, what just happened? The market pretty much literally went straight line down and Nuke.

[00:23:52]>> Uh Yeah, and that was kind of the first big event that we're like, you know, how like what do we have to do for our community? What do we need to communicate? Like how will this affect the business and on some of these days we have like you know, not record high volume, but very normal if not above average. I think the collectible demographic is just so disconnected from like macro that sometimes these things don't matter. Um We we used to be very web3 dominant user base and we still have a very good chunk uh but now we're actually more more or less like 60% web2.

[00:24:28]And even from How do you do that?

[00:24:32]We So we have Privy which um for anyone who doesn't know, it's like embedded wallets.

[00:24:38]We can tell who's signing up with like Phantom wallets or who's signing up with like an email or from ads. We have uh we have ads on TikTok, Facebook, etc. Um so yeah, we know who who's more or less a web2 or web3 user. Um and yeah, it regardless of who they are, I think collectibles is just is somewhat disconnected from from the web3 side of things in terms of economics and usually it doesn't really have an effect. Uh See, that's really interesting. That's really interesting.

[00:25:08]Um and I think it's very similar, you know, I'm an investor in Backed by similar business, but you know, uh liquor, right? Wine and spirits. Um and I think that that is a different market, right? Like people who collect whiskey uh are not necessarily trading Bitcoin or Sol or whatever. You know, like they don't and they and their their finances aren't even tied to it in many cases.

[00:25:33]And so I think it's it's very cool to see a business that uses blockchain rails and Solana, but that is not reliant on crypto markets.

[00:25:42]Um and and I think for all the VCs listening, you guys might be a much more scalable and stable business than uh than some of these some of these other ideas that are just more crypto focused.

[00:25:54]Um How So when you onboard somebody with Privy, are they uh and they're web2 user, are they just like on ramping as well some USDC into it or like they enter their credit card? How does that all work?

[00:26:04]Yeah, so we have we've had Stripe integrations and we also use Coinflow which is just similar to Stripe. Uh And yeah, it's pretty seamless. Um you can pretty much use your credit card, bank, etc. And uh buy a tokenized card uh you know, with credit card or you can deposit USDC directly. Um and then we also have something that's pretty cool.

[00:26:27]I'm not sure you you can see anywhere else yet, but we actually have a partial USDC and credit card balance. So you can use the combination of your USDC and credit card to make purchases to make things cheaper um versus like not applying both balances to one purchase.

[00:26:44]Uh but yeah, the you know, through these great partners the the whole experience there is very seamless. So yeah, I mean I didn't even think about that. So the card is tokenized and transferable.

[00:26:54]Um you know, I could send it to a wallet somewhere probably, but you didn't even need USDC to buy it. You could just use regular old Stripe transaction to pay for it. Um and Coinflow obviously same thing. Um Coinflow could could convert it to USDC but it doesn't have to. And that's kind of how it works.

[00:27:13]Yeah, right on. Exactly. Uh Yeah, we used to only have USDC deposits, but um I think the overarching goal is, you know, to to distribute into web2 and uh the payment side of things is huge. So yeah, Stripe um and Coinflow massive unlocks in terms of credit card and and not needing to know like blockchain fluency or anything like that. Yeah.

[00:27:36]Yeah, I think this is going to be where a lot of people are going to look at your company as a case study for how to do this.

[00:27:43]Um for how to how to manage like straddle both both worlds from a revenue standpoint.

[00:27:49]Um And I think it's going to become more more and more common and I've been thinking about this a lot as far as agentic commerce goes. Um because we've built a we've built a my other company built this framework for agentic commerce. It supports all those standards on the market from like one client. So you can pay for agents can buy and sell things. Um but I think the humans behind the agents don't like a lot of people are don't care about USDC or stables even though it's a more efficient way to pay for things like from a a payment rail standpoint. They just want to buy credits and consume whatever it is they need to consume. And I think like this is something I've been thinking about a lot, which is why why I asked um how you're handling that. It's very interesting.

[00:28:30]Yeah, I think we're getting there, right? Like I don't see a a future where most of this kind of commerce isn't operated on USDC. Like we talked to some of the web2 giants in the collectible space and their biggest pain point is payments. They we had one who said, "I wish I could go back and do it like you guys." And they were like a massive company and um they're like cuz the way we built it's like there's all this friction around payments and there's there's really no solution unless you're utilizing, you know, USDC. Um I mean the list goes on in terms of what what USDC can unlock. Um But yeah, it's it's a huge unlock and >> Give me some examples though. I'm really curious what their pain point is. Like how are they how are they talking about that problem to you and and how is your usage of things like USDC solve for those pain points?

[00:29:22]Yeah, so for example let's say you have you know, the world's biggest collectible marketplace and they run auctions every weekend.

[00:29:30]Uh and those auctions for some of those cards goes into like the six-figure range, hundreds of thousands for hundreds of items.

[00:29:37]Now, they're using like, you know, you can't usually people usually don't put that on their credit card. So maybe they're using like ACH. And then you have to wait five days for payment to settle, and by that time there might be some error, and now you have this like you know, uh physical item that's like stuck in stowaway, and then the payment isn't guaranteed. Maybe it lands, maybe it doesn't. Uh so, there's this whole like friction there versus you know, we could sell a million-dollar card in 2 seconds, and you know, there's no friction of of payment settlement.

[00:30:08]So, I think there's that whole concept of it, right? It's just like settlement, um among other things.

[00:30:17]But when someone buys using just Stripe, I mean, that problem still exists, right? Uh on settlement. Um versus obviously if you buy, I mean, one one possible way to do it is if you have a float of USDC, and but then you're carrying the risk.

[00:30:32]You know what I mean? Like if if if you float it, you know, but then you're carrying the risk of something on the back end happening, and they still get their card.

[00:30:41]Um If you settle it that way. Uh that's a good point. I think if you can initially onboard the funds, um I guess that's more it's more easier for the web 3 users, cuz we've seen some people just deposit like large amounts of money and settle. And then for the web 2 users, um I guess theoretically once you have, you know, your collection, you could someone could theoretically tokenize a bunch of cards and then sell them and then have that USDC in their like delegated self-custody wallet, and then the funds would be linked. But yeah, there's probably still some work to do on the initial uh on-ramping.

[00:31:17]Yeah, do you um that yeah, on the sale part, yeah, on-ramp is always the sticky part for me. Um and again, I'm dealing with this with a with agentic use cases, right? Because what customer wants to go and sign up for an agentic product or like pay for a bunch of if tools using a agentic commerce protocols like ours.

[00:31:38]Um what customer wants to do that and have to go through KYC?

[00:31:43]Like like nobody does that. Right? Like when you sign up for Cloud Code, you just put a credit card in. So, I think that's one thing that I'm hoping kind of goes away, and I don't know from a regulation standpoint like what's required, but on the payments piece if you didn't have to KYC just because you have a wallet, it that would be much better. Um cuz I don't I don't think Stripe does KYC on every transaction. Like they don't. You just it's not it's not a thing.

[00:32:10]Yeah, I think they're working on something. I don't want to say something I'm not supposed to, but I think there's players out there who are making on-ramping a lot easier with no KYC, and I know some of those players are having products come out very soon. So, hopefully it gets worked out sooner than later, yeah. Well, I want them to come on the show and talk about it when they're ready, cuz it's I think it's super important. It's one of the I think it's still one of the most unsolved issues in our space.

[00:32:37]Yeah, we just need more USDC. I know. I know. I like I I use it for everything.

[00:32:42]I love using USDC. It's like such a great Talk about a great product. And that team is really Circle, man, they've really created a good culture. Like I know some of the people over there, and their whole thing is to be as open as possible, and just make sure that USDC is the best stablecoin to use. And I instead of like trying to create things that box out other stablecoins, like they're like, "No, we're going to try to be the best service and have the best tooling."

[00:33:10]Um and and that's how they compete. I like that. You know, it's it's it's it's it's one of the reasons why I like open-source software, too. It's like the purest form of innovation to me, you know? Everybody has the same access. Um well, look, we're at the end of the show here. I always ask this question, what have I not asked that I should have asked or that you wanted to talk about?

[00:33:29]It's a good question. I mean, I have a terrible memory, so um yeah, I guess uh I mean, we're super excited about this space. Um there's a lot of great players in the space, and um hopefully in 5 years we look back and can kind of see ourselves at this point and see our whole vision come to fruition, uh which is more or less kind of our overarching goal is to kind of unify and be the not only the liquidity and infrastructure layer, but you know, unify all these different players.

[00:34:04]Uh so, when you come to Fidgetals, you know, there's one marketplace where you can view cards from every platform, grade them, uh buy, sell, get instant liquidity.

[00:34:14]Um and you know, whether you're a local card shop or a major brand, you can deploy a full e-commerce uh storefront with us, and have all these different kind of custom utilities that are all plug-and-play.

[00:34:25]And uh yeah, I mean, it's been a pleasure uh chatting, and I I thank you for having me on, and Anytime. I'd love to keep track of your progress. Let's talk again in like 6 months or something. Hit me up. Thanks for coming on. Thanks so much. Have a good rest of your day, Alex.

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