Why Is Acknowledging Differences Wrong? 'Black British' Is Not An Identity. Live Discussion Vol.5.3

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]I don't think there's any harm in acknowledging different ethnic background while standing in unity. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I just don't believe that standing in unity needs to be at the expense.

[00:00:13]>> Well, well, I'm going to tell you like this.

[00:00:15]>> identities. I'm going to tell you like this. The colonizer taught you very well, okay? Because the way you talk the way you talk you you talk as if Britain is not no longer a colonizer. They don't colonize other people's territory How do I talk like that? Because because to the colonizer you're you're to you you you you could say oh, like you just mentioned oh, Bob Marley he's multi-colored but I didn't say he's mixed race. He's half and half. He's two different racial groups.

[00:00:50]>> and you and you say he's not black. He's half and half. You just You just told me what he's not but he told you what he is. But he's not he's not black.

[00:01:00]>> Regardless Wait, wait, wait. Regard- Wait, regardless of what you're saying he said he's black. So you're like you're doing what a FBA Wait, wait, one second. They were an elephant. What does that That means nothing.

[00:01:13]No, yes it does cuz one second. You're doing what FBA people do. A FBA person I know but a FBA person would tell you that you're not African, you're indigenous.

[00:01:25]You understand what I'm saying? So >> change what I am.

[00:01:28]>> Wait. Go ahead, uh, Niccolo. Where are you from? What's your ethnic background? Where are you based? Uh, black god, I'm just going to drop you. Feel free to try and come up in a bit. I'm just bringing more people on, okay? I'm just renewing the panel.

[00:01:40]Uh, in the meantime I'm sure sure sure.

[00:01:42]Okay. Thank you for joining. Before Niccolo um, speaks guys, I need you guys to tap up the screen.

[00:01:48]We need to get to no less than 200k likes. Um, we go for higher every single time. So tap up the screen for me before I let the next person speak. And send me things that I like and share, please.

[00:02:01]Hello. Hello. You know what I like? You know I like All right, roses. I like donuts. I like galaxies. I like pretty things and bunnies and [ __ ] I love that, okay? So tap up the screen. When I've seen the screen tapped up enough, then I'm going to bring in Niccolo to speak. Um, Boulevard was just trying to come up. Let me bring you up and then let me drop Who do I need to drop?

[00:02:21]Uh, D, feel free to try and come up in a bit, okay? I just have to renew the panel. Um, T-cup, I can see you. I will bring you up as soon as there's room, okay? And for those of you that are waiting, I will bring you up as soon as there's room.

[00:02:34]Um, so yeah, tap up the screen, guys.

[00:02:37]Tap it up. Tap it up. Tap it up. And then Niccolo's going to speak. But I need the screen tapped up first.

[00:02:44]So when it's tapped up enough, I will bring in the next person.

[00:02:46]>> Can you hear me okay, yeah?

[00:02:48]Yeah, yeah, I can hear you.

[00:02:49]>> Okay, perfect. Perfect.

[00:02:50]>> second. [clears throat] Bear with me.

[00:02:52]What's your ethnic background? Where are you based?

[00:02:54]So I am Jamaican and I'm based in the UK. Okay, cool. Lovely.

[00:03:01]Yeah. Um, so I the first prompt um, I can't really what it say is black British term being used to erase Caribbean identity.

[00:03:14]You see All right, so I've had a problem with this. Not not your prompt but the the term black British. Um, my whole family's Jamaican. Um, one side's from Portland, the other side's from Hanover. Um, I've only been back twice.

[00:03:30]>> [clears throat] >> My problem Not even my problem. So I use black British as a an umbrella term to to unify under in the same way you have black Asian No, not black Asian. British Asian. Um, and the other ethnicities within that. Um, I found I'm 33. Growing up I found a lot of the time when it came to say for instance Nigerians Ghanaians, there was a type of perspective that they had where they would look down on me.

[00:04:03]Or people from my specific, you know, Jamaicans. They would look down on us cuz they wouldn't see us as maybe African or closer to roots or whatever it may be, whatever the term is. So I eventually started to use black British as a term to unify everybody else under.

[00:04:22]Um, now within that in in our own culture of of Britain like black British, we have our own not we have our own slang. A lot of the slang has been spearheaded by Caribbean culture.

[00:04:35]Um, a lot of the the dress sense, a lot of the food. Um, there's a lot that Jamaicans have contributed to the country of England outside of slavery. Yeah, it's contributed a lot to their culture. I mean, in England's national dish is a freaking chicken tikka masala. And the last time I checked that doesn't seem like it came from English [clears throat] people. But um, Yeah, they love Indian curry. They love They love that. Well, they they they love everything. They love everything. But um, so yeah, I use I I don't think the black British term is used to erase our culture so to speak. I think amongst ourselves we have problems of identity because a lot of it is mixed up. Um, I think nine times out of 10 we don't take the time just to understand and appreciate the different tribes or the different types of culture that each and every one of us has as a distinction within itself.

[00:05:43]Um, and I think this is where a lot of the clash comes from cuz we look at each other with these type of eyes that are very like not spiteful so to speak but we just look at each other different and we're we're not easily accepting. We like to try and tell someone about themselves which always relates back to Africa, you could say. Um, so um, that's that's that's my kind of I I'm not Pan-Africanist either. I'm just pro-black. Um, if I see a black person I'm I'm all willing to to try and do things for or promote. You know, if I see a post with like a black person, I'll like it. I'll still scroll. I'll just like it based on the simple fact of skin color, you know?

[00:06:32]I don't actually know fully what Pan-Africanism means to a degree. Um, but I'm definitely pro-black. Um, I just think in Britain even like when I've been back to Jamaica, I find when I've went back to Jamaica my own people don't recognize me as Jamaican. They would call me English boy. English boy or foreign or yeah.

[00:06:53]Yeah, something like that. And it's it starts to create this type of identity crisis because I am Jamaican like my my grandma like, you know, it's a matriarch in our house in our in our household.

[00:07:04]And everything that I know has come from our culture. So it's quite hard then to go back to your origins and people still look at you like you're foreign, you know?

[00:07:14]>> And that's why there's a difference between being Jamaican and then being Jamaican heritage, you see? Cuz like there is going to be a difference if you're not raised on the actual island, right? Like I I think our style as Jamaican heritage Brits, our you know, we had our families come over during the Windrush and so on. Uh, we we were raised in Jamaican culture but then we also have the fact that we were raised in Jamaican culture in Britain. And I think that it's it's just going to be different. It just is. Um, to to someone that's never left Jamaica. Do you see what I'm saying? Like it's just different. It's definitely It's just going to be like it's inevitable, right?

[00:07:56]But it doesn't change the fact that we're Jamaican heritage. Um, which I believe is different to just saying I'm Jamaican and African cuz I think it would be a bit disingenuous, you know?

[00:08:06]So when you say So let me ask you a question, Colly. So when you say um, you said earlier in the live you were like, "When the when you join the You were given the history about the the thing that's motivated you to do this live, correct?"

[00:08:20]>> Mhm. And you were talking about my people.

[00:08:23]So when you say your people, what exactly then do you mean by that? Oh, okay, sure. So when I'm referring to the British context, I'm talking about Caribbean heritage people in Britain. So that would be my people. The people that have been here and are Caribbean heritage and, you know, we have the Wind the Windrush story and all the rest of it like our people in Britain. Because the the violations and the the context that we're talking about is obviously in the context of Britain because it's British people that were West African, right? But they were British. So we have to focus on Britain, right? Um, the interesting thing though generally speaking when people are violating different uh, groups, they will talk about their home country.

[00:09:08]So um, one of the the violations was uh, well, the women in our community are [ __ ] and this that and the third. Like look at look at our paternity fraud in Jamaica and where else? So naturally uh, the Ghanaian and Nigerian dudes start referencing stuff that's happening in Jamaica in the island. That doesn't surprise me because that's what people do. Like if um, for example like uh, with what's going on in the States when people are arguing with uh, Somali people they'll they'll talk about what's going on in their home country and not necessarily the people that are in America, right? It's just what people do. Someone's dissing someone who's like uh, I don't know, Pakistani they'll they'll talk about the country, right?

[00:09:56]Yeah. As opposed to the the past and living in the UK. It's just how it goes.

[00:10:01]So, naturally, like, for me you're trying to violate my community here, but you're referencing things that are happening in our homelands, right?

[00:10:14]Um and at the end of the day, my identity is tied to that, which is why you saw it as an option to to use to to to cuss out our our people. My family are Jamaican. So, if you're if you're dissing Jamaicans the end of the day >> being violated. It's the same thing.

[00:10:33]Like, I don't Do you see what I'm saying? While internally, I know we have differences because I'm Jamaican heritage versus my my grandparents are Jamaican from Jamaica. Do you see what I'm saying? Yes, but at the end of the day, like, let's be honest. If you're if you're cussing out Jamaican heritage people and Caribbeans in general in Britain and then one of your references now is to reference the actual island and what's going on on this island or that island or that island, well, that's cuz you see us all as one in the same and you know that you're you're coming for my heritage. So, I'm I'm going to respond to that. Do you see what I'm saying?

[00:11:08]Yeah, no, no. I fully I fully I I fully get where you're coming from. I feel like with Jamaicans, we I don't know, man. We carry a sense of, like I don't know. We carry energies, man. We carry energy energies and I feel like when we first came to this country, we kind of paved the way for a lot of what's going on now to seem cool. Like, I'm 33. Growing up in school growing up in school, I used to see people and I'm not trying to diss no one, you know. I'm pro-black, yeah, but I used to see Dave at the web web the bad uh mad long name, shortened it shortened it down and then people would say to him, like, what are you like?

[00:11:46]Where you from? Cosplay Jamaican. Like, it was a like even like in 2026, it's cool now to be African. And it's And I don't I don't I'm not trying to send shots at nobody, but I'm just looking at a point in time in the past to the point now. Like, we've opened up a lot of channels for people to truly become who they are. So, now when I ask I've got a bredrin who's Nigerian. When I ask him his name and I've grew up with him, known him for a very long time.

[00:12:18]But, like, when he comes around my own friends, my Jamaican friends and he says his name, he says it now full name. Hard to pronounce, but calm he's proud of that. Back then wasn't that situation.

[00:12:29]It was a very short name. It was like Toby, but >> [laughter] >> I'm sorry. Well, I was holding it for time, you know. I'm so sorry. I was holding the I've been wanting to hold it for the last like 10 seconds.

[00:12:44]And then, like, [ __ ] Okay. No, cuz I had to say, like, Toby and okay. Go on.

[00:12:50]>> [laughter] >> Go on.

[00:12:54]You get me? Like Toby, you know, but you you know, and and now it's okay. Now it's cool. Now it's lit. Now the whole, you know, the African thing is fully lit and now we're all together as one people. Hold on. Wait, cuz my thing is this. Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why, yeah.

[00:13:09]Because, like As someone said this, which is what I was thinking as well it's like I think, yeah, it's accepted, like you said. I I can't remember who said it in the chat. I agree with you, though. It's like it's accepted. Like, it's not it's not a violation to say what you are now, right? Um the whole like cool thing, this is where I get stuck because the conversations that I've been having, yeah about Caribbean heritage culture in Britain.

[00:13:37]Like, you you've acknowledged this, right? So, you know. What people are calling outside of the UK black British culture, which isn't a thing. We know that. But, they're referring to Caribbean heritage culture. So, when I'm addressing this, right? I'm having people say, "No, well, that's not that's not true. Like, it was it was West African influences, too." And I'm saying, "Okay, what is it? Tell me."

[00:13:59]Till now, no one's been able to give me an answer that makes sense. I had finance. One answer was finance. And then the other one was uh Yeah, someone a Nigerian guy said finance. Finance uh is the is the West African contribution to black British culture.

[00:14:16]Okay. Um and then someone else said um So, someone else said um uh educational the the corporate model or some some stupid So, they said that, right? My thing is this if I say grime is Caribbean heritage. And the reason I'm I'm using this is because a Nigerian man has actually made He's British. He's actually made a a a documentary to teach his American audience what black British culture is. And then he referenced everything Caribbean. He didn't say what the West African influence is. He just said we've West African influences and then didn't say what it was. He put a flipping Skepta on the screen. Like, are you taking the piss? I'm sorry, but grime is birthed out of Caribbean heritage British culture. That's what that is. So, you can't tell me grime cuz that's silly, right? But then, like, um we have people say, "Well, no, cuz grime uh wasn't just Caribbeans." I'm saying, "Yes, it was." It was Caribbean heritage people. Wiley made it. He's Caribbean heritage. It's a Caribbean heritage art form. The whole clashing clash on the mic all that, that's birthed out of Jamaican culture clash culture. Okay, this is it's Caribbean. Like, I'm sorry, but we're not we're not playing this stupid game. It's Caribbean. No, cuz like because there were people like Skepta and so on. And I'm saying, "No."

[00:15:35]At the end of the day Skepta has jumped onto a pre-existing art form, okay? He learned it. He did well and he blew up from it. It doesn't mean that he is a founder of it. That's foolishness. He didn't create it, okay?

[00:15:57]He is not influencing it. He is jumped onto something that existed and he did well as a result, right? I saw him clash with um Devilman. It's on YouTube right now. Devilman from Birmingham, right? I saw him clashing with him and he's using Jamaican patois to to to to to spit his bars and whatnot. So, I'm like, "Listen, like the fact you have to jump into something Caribbean to to do well, right? And to look authentic, you know what it is. I don't want to hear, "Well, no, this but this but this then the other and the other." But then the dude said, "Well, no, cuz uh West African people, like, made it popular."

[00:16:36]So, why is it okay then? If that's the case if we think of opera music, right? If I ask you right now opera music, which community do you associate it with?

[00:16:49]Uh the people from the Ice Mountains, from the Caucasus Mountain. All right.

[00:16:54]So, we think European.

[00:16:56]I I instinctively think, like, Italians.

[00:16:58]Like, that's usually what I think of, right? But, we think European. Okay, cool. So, then I put this to him and uh someone else that said the same thing he was saying. That was also Nigerian. I said, "Okay, so um if you think of that genre of music, what do you think?" And they said they said European. Okay, cool. So, I said, "Right. If a Ghanaian person who loves that music, learns that music, sings that music, and does really well he's he's he gets really famous from singing opera music. Will you then say that opera music has got a Ghanaian influences?"

[00:17:34]No, bars, bars. No, no, no, that's that's different. How is it different?

[00:17:38]Why is it different? Cuz cuz the the the white Mhm. Wait, what you say? So, there's just a bit more respect when they're not racially black. There's there's more respect. So, if the white is like, "Oh, no, no, no, no, that's not the same."

[00:17:52]But, when it's like blackness and we're talking about Caribbean people, "No, no, no, that's not yours. That's just all of ours. It's just shared."

[00:17:58]>> No, I get you. No, I get you. They don't Yeah, they don't want to give credit to the community. I mean, it's it's mad, isn't it? Like, obviously grime follows the same system cuz like I said, I'm 33.

[00:18:09]People call me old. I'm in my prime, but it follows the same system of lovers rock and rude boy music, you know? And when they were polluting the system through the streets cuz remember, we've we've had to go through our own um fight against the system and authority. So, when we had our own little get-togethers and people were playing, you know, Bob Marley or whatever they were playing back in the day with the big large sound systems and two MCs or DJ Whatever they were called back then would get on stage and spit their bars. It follows the same system and that system came through I didn't see no African people at that time that were talking what they were talking. It came through our own system of language, our own system of of rhythm bass music, whatever it may be.

[00:18:52]Grime And it grew up and it grew up.

[00:18:55]Yes, it grew up.

[00:18:57]All of that. Garage, UK garage, all of it. All of it.

[00:19:00]>> And then and then what? Grime follows that and then this is Grime's evolved into trap and drill. We took African-American influences, but it still has that same spinal structure of format from from when the first black people that came here, Windrush came suffered pure racism, pure atrocities and and we've blew up, but people don't want to give us our credit. And and I don't I find that disturbing. I don't think I I think there's something wrong when people cuz my thing is this. Like I said, if I if I hear Afrobeats, I say, "Yeah, that's that's that's West African. That's Afrobeat is West African, right?" Yeah. So, someone tried to do it me the other day and mentioned um Afro swing and I didn't know what that was cuz I said, "Is that the same as Afrobeats?" And they were like, yeah.

[00:19:52]But shout out to you, you know who you are, who sent me sent me like the videos and said, no, no, no, this is what Afroswing is. And I'm listening to it and I'm like, but that's Jamaican though. Are you taking the piss? I Like I didn't even know. I thought it was the same genres, right?

[00:20:06]But Afrobeats?

[00:20:09]West African.

[00:20:11]Like that's West African.

[00:20:13]>> Yeah, straight. Like no one can copy off that.

[00:20:16]I don't say that. That's just That's everyone. I don't do that. I'm not doing that for Yeah. But like when it's when it's Caribbean stuff now it's everyone. I I don't like it. It's weird. I don't trust it. I think it's I think it's disturbing.

[00:20:30]Uh yeah, yeah. I know there's influences when it comes to popularizing it and and making it more commercial, then you have to lock into like Caribbean influence.

[00:20:39]Yeah.

[00:20:39]>> Yeah. Granted.

[00:20:40]>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But as far as like, you know, that initial stuff, like Azonto and them them ones, that that's that's them. That's theirs for sure.

[00:20:52]That's theirs. Um stick around. Stick around. Let me bring in um How do I say your name? I'm seeing a dollar sign and then Uber Is it meant to be Suba? And then Sankara? Uh go ahead and let us know what your background is and where you're based. Okay, go ahead.

[00:21:09]Uh my background and where I'm based. So I'm based all over. I'm based I'm based three different places, four different places. I was born in New York City. All right? Uh I could say I'm pan-Africanist. I'm pan-African. Um And what's your ethnic background? My my ethnic is um I'm mixed. I'm mixed. I'm I'm black. Uh I have uh indigenous Indian in me and I have white in me.

[00:21:37]Okay.

[00:21:38]>> I'm mixed like I'm I'm I'm I'm mixed like the globe. You know what I'm saying? I I tell myself I know where I'm born, but I'm I'm I'm from this globe. I'm from this earth like all of us from this earth. It sounds like you're MGM. It sounds like you're multi-generationally mixed. That's how it sounds, which is fine. So you're So you're racially black, but you're MGM. That's how it sounds.

[00:21:59]I mean I mean whatever you want to say.

[00:22:01]I'm from New York. When you say basically somebody say where I'm from, I'm from New York. Now you ask If you ask one of my African friends, my Jamaican friends, or Puerto Rican friends, where you from? We from New York first, right? Then we say, well, my mother from Puerto Rico, or my my my my people's from Florida, or whatever. You know what I'm saying? But we from New York. You know what I'm saying? Like Where you from? Brooklyn. Where you from? The Bronx. You know what I'm saying? It's just like a Puerto Rican will say, I'm Puerto Rican. I'm Boricua.

[00:22:29]So Boricua is African, uh uh a mixture of a African indigenous Taino and a Spaniard. You understand? So I was I was reading your joint and I'm like, how can a how can being black British erase um the Caribbean? Like how can When you black When you saying you black, you saying you you you you everything that's not European. You understand? When you black, you you You just like I'm black and I'm proud, okay?

[00:23:04]My man made that song, right? I'm black and I'm proud. And then you have Bob And then you have Bob Marley. You know what I'm saying? He's Jamaican, but he say he's black. But And his mother's white.

[00:23:14]But he still's going to say uh His father's white. But he's still saying But he's still going to say, I'm black. So some people just got uh Some people just have a problem with being um what what I don't know what it is. Some people have a problem with Africans.

[00:23:33]Some people have a problem with um It It It's strange cuz I'm thinking like it's a lot of agents out here. So you got to watch who you talk to cuz some people is getting paid by Europeans. And just like Europeans used to take our babies to Europe and raise them. And just like we Our school system is is uh basically our books that Europeans wrote the books that we reading, right? We read. That the knowledge that a lot of us have is European knowledge. So that's why we hate each other. That's why we we talk all that mess to each other. You know You know what I'm saying? It's It's like a piece of them in us.

[00:24:13]You know what I'm saying? I'm saying?

[00:24:14]And that's even in And that's even in Africa. It's a piece of them even in the African brother because they learn They got a British They all got We all got colonizers, right? And we don't know how how many people got off those boats when they came to wherever they came. You don't know who was on those boats, how many people came off those boats cuz it was it was it was plenty of trade um uh uh People did trade all over the world.

[00:24:44]Traders. You know what I'm saying? So we all mixed. And that's that's all I like to say is that we have to stop I know we all we we different. We the It's It's It's We We different where we was born and all that, but we all are human. We all the same. You know what I'm saying? So I might like your music. I might like my music. I might talk different. Your mother might talk different, but we all people We all people of the human race.

[00:25:11]You know, we have to we have to be together. We can't be small and my new.

[00:25:15]And we we can't be savages.

[00:25:17]We have to evolve just like your phone and and your your communications and technology. We can't go backwards. You know You know what I'm saying? I'm saying? We are humans uh and we greater than uh uh uh a monkey or I'm not saying that we you know, they less than us cuz they are animal. I'm not saying that. But what I'm saying is we got to stop being stop going backwards.

[00:25:44]Okay. So um I understand what you're saying.

[00:25:50]Um in Britain, we we we are very ethnicity focused. Right.

[00:25:58]>> So So uh I mean you mentioned Bob Marley.

[00:26:02]Even if Bob Marley said he was a black man, he's not a black man. Like he's he's mixed race.

[00:26:08]He's half and half. So which is fine.

[00:26:11]>> Right. He's got one white parent and one black parent, right?

[00:26:14]>> Right. In >> Right. In the UK, um mixed race is a separate racial category to black. Uh unlike in the states where I know you guys call biracial people black.

[00:26:25]>> No, no, no. Listen.

[00:26:27]>> biracial isn't isn't black. It's mixed race. And then you've got you've got white and you've got Asian, right?

[00:26:33]Within all of these racial categories, we have ethnicity, right? That we that we pay attention to um in our in our census, in our population data, in our um job applications where we have to tick the box explaining what our diversity and inclusion data is, right?

[00:26:52]Um and it will focus on the ethnic background. So even white Brits will look at ethnicity among themselves in applications and um in our census. It might say white white traveler or uh white gypsy or white Irish. Or it will say what they are, right? Right.

[00:27:14]>> So with Asian, it will say Bangladeshi, Chinese, Pakistani, uh other Asian backgrounds. With black, it will say Caribbean or African. With mixed race, it will say black Caribbean and white X, or black African and white X, or black Caribbean and Asian X, or black African and Asian X. Like it's very um ethnicity focused. So I I don't think there's any harm in acknowledging different ethnic backgrounds while standing in unity. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I just don't believe that standing in unity needs to be at the expense >> Well, well, I'mma tell you like this.

[00:27:55]>> I I'mma tell you like this. The colonizer taught you very well, okay?

[00:27:59]Because the way you talk the way you talk, you you talk as if Britain is not no longer a colonizer. They don't colonize other people's territory. How do I talk like that? Because because to the colonizer, you're you're To you, you you you can say, oh, like you just mentioned, oh, Bob Marley, he's multicolored, but he's not black.

[00:28:26]>> race. He's half and half. Yeah, exactly.

[00:28:29]And and you And you say he's not black.

[00:28:31]He's half and half. You just You just told me what he's not. But he told you what he is. But he's not He's not black.

[00:28:38]>> Regardless Wait, wait. Wait. Wait, regardless of what you're saying, he said he's black. So you're like You're doing what the FBA >> were an elephant. What does that That means nothing. What does that That means nothing.

[00:28:52]No, yes it does cuz 1 second. You're doing what FBA people do. A FBA person I know, but a FBA person would tell you that you're not African. You're indigenous.

[00:29:04]You understand what I'm saying? So >> change what I am.

[00:29:07]>> Wait.

[00:29:09]Ex- Exactly. It doesn't change. So why would you say Bob Marley's not black?

[00:29:14]Just because his mother's >> I'm saying what he is. I'm not The different The difference You've just flipped the argument. So I'm saying what he actually racially is. What someone says is irrelevant. I'll just look at what they actually are though. He's got one white parent. Why are we talking about?

[00:29:28]So because So hold on. Hold on. So because he's So if someone who is biracial, cuz I know this is a thing in America, but I'm I'm in Britain. So I don't I don't subscribe to it. But in America, if someone says to you they've got one white parent and one black parent. If they say to you that they are white, do you accept that they're white?

[00:29:48]Right, I'm going to accept whatever they say they are cuz they in their world they in this world but they are Okay, that's fine. Listen to me. Hold on a second. Hold on 1 second and I'mma prove my point to you, right?

[00:30:01]Um, you might be biracial and and say I'm biracial but to your colonizer you black. So?

[00:30:12]What does that mean? Well, I'm confused.

[00:30:14]That means nothing.

[00:30:15]>> on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let me finish. Let me finish. What does that mean?

[00:30:17]>> Okay. So are you >> That means that Hold on. Hold on. So are you telling me cuz I love I get this people from specifically more so from people in the States than anywhere else.

[00:30:26]Are you telling me that I you're saying my view, right? is is from >> Yes. colonialist. Hold You're saying >> Yes. colonialist mindset. You're saying well, Britain is still colonizing places. So my mindset around race is influenced by white white European Brits, right? That's what you're saying.

[00:30:43]Then you say >> Right. Well, >> Right. even if hold on. But then you say if someone is one thing, right? In the eyes of white people they're still this.

[00:30:53]So you're saying they should see themselves through the eyes of white people which means the white people are still dictating what they are even if they're something else.

[00:31:01]What I'm telling you is what I'm telling you is to the European if you have 1% 2% right?

[00:31:12]You are black. So? And is that true?

[00:31:16]Maybe to them but what does that have to do with me? I don't care what they think. Great. Now you said There you go. There you go. Now you're admitting There you go. Wait. Wait.

[00:31:26]Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Hold on. Don't worry. I'll let you respond. You just admitted. You just You just said I'll let you respond.

[00:31:32]It is. My thing is this. Hold on. My thing is this.

[00:31:35]Even when we think of what the Spaniards did, right? during that that time of colonizing places.

[00:31:43]They colonized Jamaica first and other locations, right? Before the Brits.

[00:31:46]>> Right. Right.

[00:31:47]>> we think of them they had what was called the I believe it was called the great debate, right?

[00:31:55]black people, right? are human or not.

[00:32:00]So the conversation was that they came about as a result of relations between a man and an ape and therefore they're not human and therefore they should be enslaved. They're not human beings. So should I say because they believe that as white Europeans that black people aren't human?

[00:32:17]Because they in their eyes Is that what I should say? Cuz in their eyes they're not human. So are we not human?

[00:32:23]No, where you going with that? You just said You just said Wait up. You just said so.

[00:32:29]Correct.

[00:32:30]>> When I said When I said When I said that all white people think that you're you're if you got 2% and you said so I I am who I am, right? Yeah. You said that.

[00:32:42]You admitted that. Okay, but you didn't admit when Bob Marley said he was black.

[00:32:46]No, I'm saying he's not black.

[00:32:49]Listen. Listen. You just said so.

[00:32:52]>> Yes. I'm saying to you If someone If you're telling me basically let me summarize it. You're saying it doesn't matter because in the eyes of a white person you're still this. So in the eyes of a white person Bob Marley is still black. In the eyes of a white person biracial people are still black. I was making a point. I was making a point telling you that it don't matter.

[00:33:15]You can't It don't matter. If someone tells you this is what I am, you have to respect that. That's all I'm saying. You don't need to do that.

[00:33:24]Cuz you just said the same thing about so. So you want to see you You want somebody to respect >> know why I said so. I feel like you're not getting why I said so.

[00:33:34]No, cuz you're not understanding that if someone says they are what they are, you have to respect that. You can't just say I'm not going to respect that because I know your mother's white and I know your father's black. But if they tell you what they are, you might not know if they mother or mother's white or their father's black and they say I'm black.

[00:33:53]You want to respect it. You want to respect it, right? You want to respect it, right? In the case of where we do know what their parents are, I'm going by the facts of what they are. So if you tell me that you are white but you're in fact blue and I'm looking at blue, I'm not going to tell you okay, I'll respect the fact that you're white because because you said so.

[00:34:14]>> You just said that Bob Marley can't say he was black because his mother is his father's white and that's wrong.

[00:34:23]>> He's mixed race. He's half and half. So no What does that got to do with What does What What What do you mean he's not fully black? Where you Where you See this is Listen. Listen. Listen. This is what a colonizer thinks.

[00:34:37]So are you black? Are you black?

[00:34:39]Are you black?

[00:34:42]Are you black? Answer that question.

[00:34:45]Answer that question.

[00:34:46]Listen. Don't >> black?

[00:34:49]Just answer that question. do it cuz you're on my platform and I'm going to start feeling like you're trying. I don't want it I'm not trying you. I'm not trying. I'm trying to educate you, sister. I'm trying to educate you.

[00:35:00]Why? Cuz you're Cuz you're speaking to me from an American context and I'm telling you about Britain. Furthermore, furthermore, you're telling me about one drop rules essentially. Well, if you're Hold on.

[00:35:13]Wait. If someone's 2% Well, in the eyes of a white person they're still this.

[00:35:18]I'm saying so what if a white person tells you that they think you're something? What they think does not override what someone actually is. I don't care what someone who's not black says about what they think I am. What you're doing the same thing.

[00:35:33]What you're referring to is another thing that was also introduced by white Europeans, the one drop rule. Do you subscribe to that? I don't. I don't subscribe to it. I do not subscribe to it because guess what? If someone with 2% black blood, right? Let's do that and the other 98% of them is white. If they say they're white and a white person doesn't accept them as white, why the hell do I need to accept them as black because they've got 2% What are we talking about? That's like me tell you you're not Jamaican. Was you born in Britain? Was you born in Britain?

[00:36:09]>> even listening. You need to listen cuz what she's saying Yo, was you born in Britain? Yes. Okay, so you're not Jamaican. I'm Jamaican heritage. You What you're not Jamaican.

[00:36:21]I'm Jamaican heritage. But are you Jamaican or British? I'm Jamaican heritage. Okay. Okay.

[00:36:28]Wait. Wait. But are you British or Jamaican? I'm Jamaican heritage. Oh my gosh. Wait. Brother, you can't say You can't say You can't admit yourself Just say I'm not Jamaican.

[00:36:42]over there. No. No.

[00:36:45]I'm trying to explain something right here and you're trying to tell me some backward [ __ ] That's not backward.

[00:36:53]I'm listening to someone that would call Amber Rose a black woman.

[00:36:58]Hold on. What's Amber Rose? What is she?

[00:37:01]Listen. What is she?

[00:37:03]>> Amber Rose is whatever she say she is.

[00:37:05]I'mma respect He is He is whatever she say she is.

[00:37:10]No. No. You can't He is whatever she say he is. I said Leave it out, brother. My brother is lost. Yeah, I'm sorry. There's many that we've had on here that are genuinely like they they're they're fine. That was just That was so backwards.

[00:37:25]That was so backwards. Oh my gosh. Amber Rose is whatever she say she is.

[00:37:30]>> [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:37:31]Okay.

[00:37:33]Well, that's fine. So then no one should have a problem with like the trans debate or anything like that. Like no one should have a problem with how anyone wants to identify. That's fine.

[00:37:42]I'm focused on what the race is. And the fact that you're using a colonialist white European colonialist talking point to tell me that my mindset is influenced by white colonialist is fascinating to me.

[00:38:02]The one drop rule was introduced by them in your where you are and you subscribe to that and I don't.

[00:38:09]I'm confused. That is weird. I don't Like bro, listen. This is Britain. I'm not I'm not addressing the [ __ ] over there.

[00:38:17]So let's just focus on here, please. Um, that was weird. Okay.

[00:38:21]Um, just to set Boulevard I'll come to you in a sec. My thing is Yes, they've they've had problems because they were colonized afterwards.

[00:38:29]So many years later but they were colonized afterwards. So if they seek reparations for being colonized afterwards I'm for that because they were colonized.

[00:38:40]But prior to that they they were trading and they were trading for alcohol and and weaponry and textiles uh in in exchange for you know, the the the the human the humans right? The West African people that they took as prisoners of war or that they kidnapped from different villages and so on and they sold them in exchange for these goods that we just referenced with the Europeans and it was a system that went on for a very long time and and was good for them which is why they kept doing it. So to then suggest that they if if they're going to spearhead this thing to suggest that they they should no one should think about the contribution uh they made to the suffering, right? Because it was their leaders. To say that they shouldn't be responsible for their part of it, right?

[00:39:35]Because they don't they don't they're not benefiting now financially is is crazy to me. It's like it's either it's either all or nothing. Like if they're going to say, "You know, we did this and we should pay for it, too, because it was a trade." Then fine. But if you're going to if you if anything, I'm saying probably just focus on colonialism then if that's the case cuz it can't be used to make out like they suffered as a result of slavery.

[00:40:01]That's that's mad to me. Like the audacity. I'm shocked. Cuz to say, "Well, no, like yeah, we did trade, but it's wrong what what these Europeans did."

[00:40:12]When you were trade trading people, that's crazy.

[00:40:16]No, I can't accept that.

[00:40:19]Colonialism, yes. They want reparations for that totally. But like to put yourself in into the slavery bit and say that you're a victim of that somehow is mad. I don't get how that's even a thing.

[00:40:30]This is where the Pan-Africanism stuff gets me.

[00:40:35]It makes me uncomfortable.

[00:40:37]Because I acknowledge that completely.

[00:40:40]This is is mad. The the the fact that the Americans did that and and Israel did that and the UK abstained from voting and and other European countries abstained. Yeah, crazy. I think we have to acknowledge that and we have to talk about that. But what's concerning for me is that that means because of Pan-Africanism, we're not meant to address the fact that the people that have spearheaded this, right? Are people that initial If we're talking about slavery, they initially benefited from it and were active participants in the trade. To request reparations for that feels sinister to me because you know that you participated. So why would you request reparations? Reparations for colonialism's different. If that's the case, I'm I support that. But no way can you want reparations for slavery.

[00:41:30]Imagine it all together the way they have done feels very sinister to me because now we're saying what? We're saying um you know, it was wrong and we need to acknowledge that it was a crime against humanity. Okay, then. So if we Let's be honest. The Europeans and whatnot and America, they're not going to acknowledge it cuz that would mean that they would owe a debt, right? They'd have to compensate for that.

[00:41:53]So they're not going to want to acknowledge it. We We get what we're fighting against. We know why they wouldn't want to, right?

[00:41:58]Why would Ghana want to though if they were active participants?

[00:42:03]Unless the view would be that that that they were victims of it. Cuz they we know what the narrative is. Oh, no, they were stolen and they were kidnapped from there. The Europeans came and just kidnapped people. It was a trade. I don't know why the trade bit gets lost.

[00:42:21]Mhm.

[00:42:22]We know reparations equates to money and then other benefits. We we know. So I would like to know why Ghana would be seeking reparations for slavery and colonialism. We can we can all acknowledge like the part that uh Europe historically had to pay in all of this.

[00:42:39]We all We all know.

[00:42:41]The the danger I think is when we say Yeah, we know that these these uh the the people that were leading parts of West Africa at the time, we know that they uh benefited directly from the enslavement of the people that are, you know, in the islands, right?

[00:43:04]We know they benefited. We know they participated. We know that they they got what they wanted for a very long time because it was a trade that went on for a very long time. We know they got that, right?

[00:43:16]Um but because later on down the line after slavery was abolished and uh decades had passed, because um the Europeans then targeted them directly, um you know, we should let them off because they were victims, too.

[00:43:37]It it sounds crazy to me. It sounds crazy. I support them trying to get reparations for what happened to them afterwards.

[00:43:48]Colonialism. Sure, of course.

[00:43:51]But slavery, I don't think it's a it's an accident that they've incorporated this into their conversations around reparations. They're not affected by slavery.

[00:44:02]If they were willingly trading people, Thank you. So if they if they were willingly trading people, they're not affected by it. So what What is making them include it under the umbrella of of of them being victimized?

[00:44:19]It No, that that's sinister. Don't I also don't want you to think that that's my sentiment because that would be foolishness. No, the industrial The Industrial Revolution was was was popping and at the time because that was becoming a new thing. Let's be honest.

[00:44:33]It was it was more economically sound to move towards that than to continue with um with with slavery. I also I also understand as well that the way in which they um incorporated the act to to emancipate slaves in in 1833 was it was still a piss take. They brought in some uh apprenticeship program and said, "Okay, well, well, what we'll do in Jamaica, for example, and and all the British West Indies is for the next 6 years after we uh emancipate everyone and abolish it, we'll make it so that they still have to work for um their owners. We'll make it so they still have to do that." Of course there was resistance and then that was ended 2 years early. But it was all a piss take.

[00:45:17]We we we know. I accept that it was a piss take. I know it was a piss take. I know it wasn't from a place of morality.

[00:45:23]I totally know that. And let's be honest, they paid out the slave owners in the the the sum of 20 million at the time, which was 5% of GDP and 40% of the Treasury's annual income, which they only finished paying off in 2015 cuz they were paying it off as a loan, right? So So I understand. Like there's no morals in this [ __ ] I know. Like I don't want you to think that I don't know that. I do know that. But my thing is to say that the end of the day it's just these Europeans, they're the enemy.

[00:45:54]Who The history is what it is. We know.

[00:45:57]They need to be held to account for what's happened, especially their current response, i.e. either abstaining or saying, "No, we don't think it was a crime against humanity." But I'm not going to just ignore because of skin color the fact that the people that are pushing this forward are people that were um direct beneficiaries of of this thing at the time. Like no. Like I I think we need to acknowledge the fact that they they participated. So they shouldn't be seeking reparations for slavery. For colonialism, yes. For slavery, no. There's something wrong here. So I'm going to bring in Nicole.

[00:46:34]Um Yes. Let us know your ethnic background and where you're based. And that Norms, I saw your comment. So Did I get skipped? Did you get Norms said, "So why should they lead?" I don't understand her point. Why should they >> skipped? So my name is uh Nicole. I'm an ethnic black American. Did Did I get skipped?

[00:46:52]Who? Who's speaking? Boulevard.

[00:46:56]Oh, Boulevard, hold on a second.

[00:46:58]>> Oh, man. I can wait, baby. Boulevard, you can speak. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait. Boulevard, have you spoken already? Since you've been on?

[00:47:05]>> No, I haven't said a word.

[00:47:08]>> Not once?

[00:47:09]Not once. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Nicole, bear with me. Let me go to Boulevard. I thought Boulevard had spoken before.

[00:47:16]>> No worries. Okay, just a second. That's fine. Go ahead, Boulevard. Uh let everyone know what your ethnic background is and where you're based.

[00:47:24]Okay, so I'm African-American Yeah.

[00:47:28]>> and Jamaican.

[00:47:29]Okay.

[00:47:30]>> My mother My mother's from My mother's from Chicago. My dad's from MoBay. Okay.

[00:47:36]Yeah.

[00:47:37]Go ahead. So Okay.

[00:47:40]When I when I say the term black British, and I'm trying to be as balanced as possible.

[00:47:50]What I'm not trying to do, I'm definitely not trying to erase Caribbean identity when I say the word black British.

[00:47:59]I'm just uh recognizing a particular experience that I don't have.

[00:48:09]For example, like whether you uh from a certain ethnic group, whether you Anthony Joshua or you Slick Rick, Tiny Tempah or uh Who else is black? Idris Elba, right?

[00:48:26]By them being >> backgrounds, by the way. But yeah.

[00:48:29]Right.

[00:48:30]Right. You can still hear me? Yeah.

[00:48:33]Yeah.

[00:48:35]Regardless of their ethnic background, by them being black, born and raised in Britain, they can There's a certain conversation that they can have. I might not know what that is.

[00:48:49]There's a certain conversation that they can have with each other that they can't have with me because I'm not from there.

[00:48:57]Yeah.

[00:48:58]So I'm never trying to take away Mhm. uh Caribbean identity.

[00:49:05]So just to be clear, um it wasn't really directed this that from It's not directed at people outside of the UK cuz they they wouldn't know what's happening in the UK if they're not if they're not here, like yourself, right? So this this is more in reference to to people who are racially black in the UK and the way it's being used because anyone in the UK who is racially black knows They know about what our ethnic backgrounds are and the fact that we're very ethnic ethnicity focused in the UK. They know.

[00:49:36]They know about the differences. They know about the different cultures. They know about the different identities and they know that we're not a monolith. We don't call ourselves all just this this one one black British group. They know that about Absolutely.

[00:49:50]So, when people here do that, I believe it's it's a purposeful act of erasure when it comes to Caribbean heritage, right? Because a lot of the time I'm I'm seeing it within the context of erasing or belittling or not wanting to acknowledge contributions of Caribbean heritage people in Britain given our history. It's it's a shock to me with how long we've been here, right?

[00:50:13]So, so people outside of the UK wouldn't really um Mhm. understand obviously cuz you're not here. Um thank you, Kandake.

[00:50:26]Thank you. I like Alexi.

[00:50:28]So, because of that, I'm not I'm not suggesting that you or anyone outside of the UK are purposely trying to erase Caribbean heritage identity in the UK because you wouldn't be able to do that from um from where you are anyway, right? You wouldn't know. So, the thing is all the people you listed off, I know what all their ethnic backgrounds are immediately because we're so ethnically focused in the UK. So, I already know what they are, right?

[00:50:56]But to someone in the States like yourself, you you'd probably just think, oh, black British. I don't believe it's your fault though either because the people that are pushing this um I think they're doing it on purpose.

[00:51:10]Anyone in Britain knows that we do not have a monolithic view of ourselves as as black people in Britain. Right.

[00:51:19]>> Mixed-race people, which you guys call biracial in the US, are not black people in Britain. They are mixed-race people.

[00:51:25]It's a recognized racial category, right? Black people in Britain, you're Caribbean heritage or you're African heritage. That's just how it is in the UK. So, when people from the UK tell audiences outside of the UK, oh, now we're just all black British here and we've and we've got them like you're you're lying and you know you're being disingenuous. Why are you doing that?

[00:51:48]So, that's not really targeted at at you or anyone outside the the UK.

[00:51:55]Right. I get that.

[00:51:58]Um what I would say as somebody who's African-American.

[00:52:06]My my dad is from Jamaica, but I didn't really grow up with him.

[00:52:11]He wasn't really in my life like that, but I'm still heritage-wise, I'm still Jamaican just as much as I'm African-American. Yeah.

[00:52:20]And I know and I know that once upon a time in America, black Americans was an amalgamation of many different black ethnicities.

[00:52:33]Mhm.

[00:52:34]Just as the UK is right now.

[00:52:38]But we've been here so long for so many since the 16 and 1700s with all these different black ethnicities here.

[00:52:49]And it's a it's a slightly different story because we are here uh by force. We're not here by choice.

[00:52:57]Um our cultures have meshed together.

[00:53:03]It's blended together as one big thing.

[00:53:08]Black people in Britain, I don't think black people in Britain have been there as long as black Americans have been in America.

[00:53:24]Okay. So, so so you might not have had the time you might not have had the time to for your cultures and identities to mesh together as much as it is it's meshed together here to form one unique ethnic group.

[00:53:45]So, maybe that's why you guys are having such a class. It's it seems like growing pains.

[00:53:51]No, cuz my thing is this like we are ethnically focused in in Britain and it's it's a good thing and I like it.

[00:54:01]>> [laughter] >> I like it. I do not want that to change where now everyone's a monolith. I don't believe in that.

[00:54:11]I I grew up in in in Jamaican culture, in Jamaican British culture, in Caribbean culture cuz especially being from Birmingham, everyone as I say at the time was Caribbean heritage.

[00:54:25]Things are changing now. My stepdad's Trini. My best friend's Grenadian. Like we we were all these different Caribbean backgrounds, right? And we had our way in our I grew up in Caribbean church. We had all these different West Indian communities in church and our weddings or something right now. We just have our way, right? And then being in London, I went to a Nigerian church, for example.

[00:54:47]Something else. It's different. The cultures are different. We have different cultures, different food, different cuisine, different ways of of speaking, different ways of doing things. Just We're different and it's a good thing when you're proud of it.

[00:55:02]Emphasis on being proud. When you're proud of it, it's good because then you just meshing and meeting all these different people with different backgrounds and different ways of life and different cultures. It's fun then when everyone's proud by the way. When people aren't proud, it gets weird and then everyone just wants to be one thing and no one wants to acknowledge what they are. And whenever I meet someone that doesn't want to say what they are or wants to um ignore the reality of what their ethnicity is, I think, okay, so you sound you sound ashamed. Why why won't you just say what you are? That's weird, right? Um Our history as Caribbean heritage people in the UK, well, our history, the Windrush, it was it was a serious time.

[00:55:47]And this is the from the '40s to the '60s when the people of the West Indies were invited over to the UK by Britain to help rebuild after World War II. And the history of our people in the UK was no joke. It was very serious and very difficult and very challenging. And our communities did a lot to build and become who they are now. And then of course later on, you know, like in the '90s and so on, you start to see more people of African backgrounds coming to the UK. And they'll come with their different ways of life and all the rest of it. People have the even even white people in Britain have their different backgrounds. Like I mentioned on a on a previous live like when when my brother goes to the pub, right, our local pub. And then you got the the guy that owns it who's white and his question is, what's your ethnic background? We said we're Jamaican. We asked the same, what's yours? And it wasn't weird to ask him that as a white person. It's it's normal to ask these questions. He was able to say, oh, no, no, no, I'm I'm English like my my family are English, but you know, my mom loves to make Irish food. It's like it's just normal conversation having these different backgrounds. Asian people, they they'll always talk about ethnicity and ethnic backgrounds. It's normal conversation. Colly, what's your background? I'll say, what's yours? Oh, I'm I'm Bangladeshi or I'm this It's normal. So, so now I'll be like, oh, well, just give it some time and then eventually you'll all become like one monolith. I'm not with that. I don't I don't It's not I don't like that. I don't like erasure.

[00:57:16]My my my culture's great and I love I love my backgrounds and my culture, so I don't want to lose that at all.

[00:57:24]And I don't see that happening either.

[00:57:26]Okay.

[00:57:28]Well, you well, I don't think it would really be erasure, right?

[00:57:35]Because for example, like I said, the black uh community here in the United States and in the Caribbean is an amalgamation of many different Afri- African ethnic groups, tribes, ethnicities and so on.

[00:57:55]So, uh I did my DNA. I'm 50% Senegalese.

[00:58:01]Mhm.

[00:58:02]Here in the United States, we don't know much about Senegalese culture even if >> [snorts] >> there is things that we share share in common with Senegalese people. We don't know about that. It would just seem like a coincidence.

[00:58:19]Uh so, due to the fact that we lost a lot of our specific >> [laughter] >> uh ethnic cultures that we had in Africa, those cultures still didn't get erased.

[00:58:33]They're still there.

[00:58:36]So, Jamaican your Jamaican culture would never be erased as long as Jamaica is still a country.

[00:58:46]So, I I don't I understand your your concern and your fear about that, but Jamaican culture would never get erased.

[00:58:56]Ever. Regardless of what happens in the UK or the Czech Republic, wherever.

[00:59:04]Jamaican culture would never get erased.

[00:59:09]Thank you for your contribution, okay?

[00:59:11]I'm going to let Nicole go.

[00:59:13]>> Nicole go.

[00:59:15]Thank you. What's your ethnic background and where were you based?

[00:59:19]So, I am ethnic black American. I'm based in the United States. I'm a Louisiana Creole. And so, I want to name something specifically.

[00:59:29]I don't know what Boulevard is talking about, but the black American ethnic group is ethnically from the United States starting in 1619 very at the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade. It is a multi-racial ethnic group that includes various African ethnic groups, indigenous heritage, and European heritage. But we are racially black. Mhm. We do not subscribe to the one-drop rule anymore. So you have people who come into this space who try to push those concepts onto Black people in the United States, and we are actively pushing away from that. Nicole, it was weird. That you're talking about the guy the guy from earlier.

[01:00:07]Yes. That's what I mean.

[01:00:08]>> even my friend Boulevard though, because I want to speak about even Boulevard because he's saying that he is bi-ethnic. He's Black American and I believe he said Jamaican, but then he said that he grew up without knowing his African-American father. And so I would say culturally he grew he grew up outside of the culture.

[01:00:28]Right.

[01:00:29]>> And so he's not Jamaican. He's Jamaican.

[01:00:32]>> So he grew up in the African American black culture not >> So if he if he grew up in Black American culture, then he would know that we are a multi- a multi-racial, multi-cultural ethnic group. Even in the United States the Black American ethnic group has a multitude of different cultures. As I said, I'm a Louisiana Creole which has a lot of our African heritage, our indigenous heritage. It all still shows up in our food, our language, and our culture. We also have Caribbean a creolized language that exists that other Black Americans who are also ethnic do not speak. Now the gentleman from New York, I guessed immediately you can clock immediately that he was not ethnic Black American because one he says he's from New York. That is a city that you live in. It is not an ethnic identity. It may be a cultural identity, but it's not an ethnic identity. And so he's speaking about what blackness is and what ethnic blackness is, and he's misrepresenting it. Blackness >> [laughter] >> to him blackness is whatever you you you feel like at that time.

[01:01:33]So if you what I thought was If you if if so basically if the if the Prime Minister of this country in Britain says that he's he's black, then we have to just go with what he feel like.

[01:01:48]So I think it ties to even some of the pieces that brought up is that we have a lot of people who are coming into the United States and because they can't access the dominant culture which is white culture, they have to they have access to the next dominant culture which is Black American culture.

[01:02:05]And what they try to do is try to quote-unquote assimilate, but instead of assimilating they co-opt.

[01:02:11]And so one of the issues that we're having is we have a lot of people who like to speak on Black American issues who are not actually Black American.

[01:02:19]They are not able to differentiate between racial identity, nationality, and ethnicity.

[01:02:26]Primarily because when they move to this country they have been broken away from their home their cultural homeland, and so they they're third culture. So they struggle with their own identity, and so they want to push towards flat blackness as a way to navigate navigate the hellscape that is racial race in America because it's terrible. It has never stopped being terrible.

[01:02:48]But it's always done at the expense of either co-opting or misconstruing or abusing the Black American identity. One of the things that I heard throughout your live is people kept calling you or you must be FBA. You're the Caribbean FBA because you're operating from a sense of clear ethnic pride. And so we we experience those same things, and I'm like we're going to stand 10 toes down because I know what my ancestors >> me me being proud of my ethnic my ethnic background is a form of self-hate cuz you don't believe the RNA. That's why I said like it's it feels like a form of of of West African wash. That's what I don't like because I acknowledge African ancestry, but that's not enough.

[01:03:30]>> [laughter] >> That's not enough.

[01:03:32]I have to just not say Caribbean at all and say no but like I'm I'm I'm African which is crazy because the people that have said that for the most part over previous lives will get into arguments with other people that are from different African backgrounds on the live, and you'll hear the people Someone was arguing today, and it's like yeah look like let's not force an identity on people outside of the continent, but then within the continent you're beefing. It makes zero sense.

[01:04:04]Mhm. Zero sense. And so the idea I'm like and even one of the two gentlemen I think they were both West Africans literally got into a shouting match within 5 minutes of speaking to each other. You can't even claim to be Pan-African. You're trying to push Pan-Africanism onto me, but Pan-Africanism is about an exchange. It should be a mutually beneficial exchange, and the only thing they should doing is extracting because you want us to assimilate into your culture and deny the cultures that we've built and then speaking about the reparations conversation and then extract the wealth the perceived wealth that you think you might have access to because I would like you to know that ethnic Black Americans were boycotting and protesting the Ghanaian president coming into New York, desecrating the sites of our ancestors who were trafficked here by their ancestors, and laying wreaths and changing the names of our monuments to our ancestors who survived chattel slavery as a way to extract the perceived wealth that they believe Black Americans are going to get as result of reparations.

[01:05:07]>> understand exactly who white Americans are. What they don't understand is that we have our own internal fights for reparations happening in the United States, and by trying to tie our experiences in the United States to a global colonialism tragedy is actually undermining our efforts for true reparations. And so we're not going to let it That's not going to happen. We're going to shut it down because what we experienced not only after the transatlantic slave trade, but then through the period of apprenticeship much like what you all went through and then Jim Crow slavery and then redlining and all the other hellscapes that were created to essentially eliminate the Black American community, like we fought toe-to-toe, and they're going to atone for that. So you can't come in and say you want to get a piece of the pie when you were an active participant in the trade for 200 years when you built your entire communities, your entire kingdoms off of the trafficking of other people, and then because you got a bad deal and you lost and then they turned on you, and now you are stuck in the system of oppression, you feel that you should be a part of the struggle. Absolutely not.

[01:06:16]We shut that [ __ ] down. I think it's disrespectful.

[01:06:18]>> not going to happen. I think it's completely disrespectful. I don't take it lightly that the the whole the whole attempt was you know like it it's the it was the blurring of lines that I found disturbing. It was the blurring of lines.

[01:06:33]>> it was it was we need to acknowledge this transatlantic slave trade as a crime against humanity and then and then talk about colonialism and and the impact that that's had on on the the the nations and so on. It's the blurring. I don't know why why it's being merged together as like just one overall situation.

[01:06:54]They're two separate situations that happened at different time periods, and in the first one you weren't a victim.

[01:07:03]So I don't know what that is and why it's coming up. CARICOM already seeking reparations for the Caribbean islands for what happened during the transatlantic slave trade. So because CARICOM doing that, I don't know why Ghana now have become like the face of seeking reparations for that particular part of history. For colonialism, yes.

[01:07:25]Them being colonized, yes. But merging the two together so that no one can really tell the difference, and then him um the president going to the that site in America, right? To the the Negro burial site? Yeah like >> changed to the African burial site?

[01:07:43]>> Uh not like it's it's weird it's weird.

[01:07:45]I I No, I'm sorry. I think there's dodgy going on. It's dodgy.

[01:07:49]>> No, it is dodgy. That's your spirit of the sermon that's coming out because again, your experience with Europeans culturally and historically has been much different than the Africans who were colonized and who participated in the trafficking and then were betrayed by the people who were their trade partners. And so the spirit of the sermon that you come up with is like there's a red flag here. And what it is is money. So one of the things that we learned in the last 2 years is that there are so many West Africans who are coming into the United States and attempting to assimilate into the ethnic Black American identity group, but then using the black racial group as the pathway forward, they've come in to either undermine or extract wealth because they found that Black Americans have I believe seven seven trillion dollars of disposable income that's intended up until 2035. Their intention was to take the wealth of Black Americans and move that money to West Africa. And we've already seen that they have started doing it. For example, I shared that I'm from Louisiana, and so one of the things that we have in my city in New Orleans is something called the Essence Festival. And it was a festival that we created 20 years ago to celebrate Black American culture. So in the last 2 years things have gotten funny. They started shutting out local vendors like local New Orleans businesses.

[01:09:07]They were suing Black authors. Like they were moving very funny, very different from how they've ever moved in our city.

[01:09:13]>> know that.

[01:09:14]So the festival is called the Essence Festival. Mhm. That's what it's called.

[01:09:20]So it was the the leadership of the Essence organization, and then we learned by digging because they were behaving so weirdly, so anti-community.

[01:09:31]We were like, what's going on? Because this is not how we move as a people. So when we dug into it, we found out that the president of the the magazine and the president over the festival were West Africans and they had one was from I believe Liberia and one was from Congo.

[01:09:49]And but he lived in Nigeria. His goal was to take the Essence Festival, take all the money, extract the money from the festival and move it to Nigeria to make Nigeria the cultural center of Black American culture. Hold on. So the the former CEO was a Congolese person who noted that her family participated in the uh East African slave trade. So she was the former president of the Essence Festival magazine and then the the owner of the actual festival itself, Richard uh what's his name? Richard Dennis Louis or something like that. He was Liberian but he's based in Nigeria and they shared their plan to essentially take the cultural influence and the money that came from Essence Festival, which is a Black American cultural festival and shift it to Nigeria to anchor Nigeria as the cultural capital of the world. What what what what >> has been happening in the last year is that Black Americans have been like, well, what the hell is going on? We need to see what's actually happening and start delineating, which is where that FBA movement came from and seeing who's doing what and what we're finding is we have lots of us Africans moving into Black American spaces, speaking for Black Americans, but pushing forward their own interests. The reason why our reparations movements have not moved, the reason why our reparations movements have not moved in the United States as they should is because we've had immigrants coming in and blocking it because they felt like they deserve reparations as well. So one of the things that you are seeing Can you prove that statement? That the reason that your You can look it up. Before you say look [laughter] it up, before you say You can you can literally research this. This isn't conjecture.

[01:11:35]This isn't conjecture. I have done my research, so I don't need to. I'm just asking you since you made the claim. If you're saying that the reason that your move or advocacy for reparations in America have been undermined. have have not Well, you said has not moved forward verbatim.

[01:11:51]>> undermined.

[01:11:51]>> [laughter] >> Okay, now you're changing it to undermine, but whichever.

[01:11:55]Or why is it um Sa- Sa- Saggy? You can call me Sag. You can call me Sag. Sag, what's your ethnic background and where are you based? Let I know. And for those of you that are waiting, I can see you, don't worry. I'm going to bring you on.

[01:12:06]It's just I'm at the max on the screen, but I'm going to switch it out, don't worry. Uh go ahead um Sag. Okay, I'm not trying to interrupt her. I do want her to continue, but I'll just quickly say um I'm Sierra Leonean and based in the UK. But I just wanted to ask you to clarify, Nicole, when you say that it has not been your movement for reparations has not moved forward because have been undermined. Uh you're clarifying it now, but again, you didn't say that originally. So I'm going to operate off of your >> undermined, then what do I move forward on? Hold on. Hold on. You can clarify with your use of undermine now, but I'm going to I'm responding to your original statement. So just allow me to clarify.

[01:12:42]>> I'll go ahead, Gavin. Okay, thank you.

[01:12:43]So I was just saying when you said that and the fact that it's due to Black African immigrants, can you tell me how that has been proven or how that has been shown outside of the example you just gave with the leader of >> No, if you go to the New York City Public Council meetings on reparations, you can actually watch the council the council meetings where you have people going in saying, I am I am from Nigeria or I'm this immigrant or that immigrant and I feel like we should have reparations. We have these other people sitting in our government representing our interests and saying, no, we need to study reparations. We studied we know the history in the United States. We know our history down. So we are not confused around why we deserve reparations from the United States, but we have other people who have come in because they experienced anti-blackness in this country feeling that they should also get reparations as a result. Okay, so outside >> you also if you would also like information about this situation with the Essence Festival, you can go on essencefest.com. You can you can go on nola.com. While I'm giving you examples, you wanted examples, I'm giving you examples.

[01:13:52]>> Yeah, my example the example that was >> go on nola.com, which is our local newspaper and find this information and find out that they have not paid the bill to the city of New Orleans, how they blocked Black authors from hosting events saying that it would create non-compete clauses that were illegal, that they bankrupted our festival. You can breathe. Take a minute. So okay, first [laughter] of all, what you're trying to do because I've given you asked me for specific examples. I've given them to you. You told me, where can I go? I told you where you could go.

[01:14:23]You can find this information. You can literally do a quick Google search. It is not hard.

[01:14:29]You can determine and because because you can determine whether those sources are credible or not and you'll see that I'm not just making conjecture. I'm not operating out of feelings. I'm operating out of facts.

[01:14:40]Did you finish your point, Nicole?

[01:14:43]So by and large, so essentially my my overarching conversation because I didn't want to get away from your original topic is that in the United States, we're having the same challenge.

[01:14:53]What has been more difficult is you have so many people who associated associate racially associate with blackness racially that they try to put this idea forward that we don't understand ethnic identity.

[01:15:04]Well, Black Americans are very clear on their ethnic identities. I am 14th generation Black American. I am an ethnic American. I can trace my history back to 1719 and plan to go further this summer. We are very clear on who we are and how we got here. We're also clear on the United States and how they move and how they seek to not only oppress us but then use our oppression as a way to continue pushing global oppression, but that does not mean that we're going to allow other people to advance their own interests uh at our expense. Because we we fought the white people in America, we're going to fight whoever else it is because we are also very proud of who we are and what we've built. Our goal has always been to lift others and share with others, but we're never going to lessen ourselves or diminish ourselves as a result. So I just wanted to name that a lot of times when you are engaging with people who come with those like crazy rhetorics like we're all Black and there's we're all the same. We're not.

[01:15:59]We recognize that we have our own unique cultures and ethnic identities and things that we contribute that make the fabric of who we are and that when people try to do that, it's usually because one, they're disassociated from their own culture because they're living in their third culture and so they are um too far away from their culture of origin to know who they are and they're seeking an identity um and they try to push that on people who are very anchored in theirs. So I just wanted to name that.

[01:16:26]Yeah, I I actually agree with it because to be honest, some of this some of that dude uh yo, like I've he's not the first person I've heard from the States say weird weirdness to me, but um his was just a bit extreme. Uh I don't know. It sounded ridiculous. I'm not even going to Because he was lying. He was making it up. And so that's why I always ask, where are you from the South? Because the reality is I our ethnic group was born in the South.

[01:16:51]It was born in plantations in the South.

[01:16:53]Like slavery may have started in the colonies, but where it grew and became what it is to the economic engine that drives the world was in the South. So an ethnic Black American can tell you exactly where their people are in the South because the we are from the South.

[01:17:07]So when he was like, I'm from New York and I'm from the world, so you're actually saying that you're not American, you're a third identity person, but you're trying to represent blackness and that's problematic because then you're going to create confusion with people across the pond.

[01:17:21]Mhm.

[01:17:22]Just to confirm, guys, um what Nicole's talking about is is true. There's actually plenty of articles about it. Um Uh the one reference you can look at Ebony.

[01:17:34]Um they've made reference to the fact that the there was a presence of more Pan-African um inclusion that made people feel sidelined as far as Black American culture is concerned. Uh Yeah, there's actually quite a few articles here. It's not She's basically, guys, it's it's referenceable. You can you can definitely look this up. Uh 2025 Essence Festival of Culture first significant controversy and debate regarding the inclusion and influence of African and broader African diaspora culture.

[01:18:09]Uh with some attendees and commentators arguing it shifted away from its original focus on Black American heritage.

[01:18:16]Um Yeah, there's loads. Essence Africa you can look at. Um The Burning Spear Minnesota Spokesman-Recorder. There's loads of articles about it, guys.

[01:18:32]Uh Uh The Sacramento Observer.

[01:18:37]There's loads of articles about it, okay? Just so you know, I just you know, fact-checked it cuz people are asking where they can find it.

[01:18:43]>> And I can also share I don't have it accessible right now, but I can also share the articles around them creating the sixth African district to essentially move wealth from the Caribbean and uh the United States into Africa and how this reparations movement is the first part the first step in doing that. I just didn't have access to it, but I can also send you that as a DM just in case anyone has other questions because I operate off of facts, not feelings. Yeah, plea- can you send me the stuff about um about Niger- obviously I'm trying to multitask and listen at the same time, so I don't want to be sitting here reading for time, but can you send me the stuff on like Nigeria? I think you mentioned as things we What was it? You said something about Nigeria.

[01:19:24]Yeah, so what I said was that one of the things that we found when we saw that the Essence Fest was operating very differently than it than it had in the past 25 years was that the person who owned the festival was uh his plan was to essentially move the festival and take the money's uh earned from the festivals to Nigeria by 2035 to make Nigeria the cultural epicenter of African of black culture. So essentially take the the cultural influence out of the United States using the Essence Festival and and center it in Nigeria.

[01:19:57]And I can send you that article as well.

[01:19:59]Okay. Thank you. Yeah, please. Just so I can, you know, uh read it.