Answering Your Tolkien Questions Episode 154: How did Glorfindel Change Tolkien's Mythology?

Ajouté : 2026-06-01

[00:00:01][music] [music] [music] >> Hello, hello, hello everyone. My name is John Sierra and I'm a Tolkien scholar.

[00:00:28]>> [music] >> And what that essentially means is that I study the works of J.R.R. Tolkien and have for quite a long time, pretty much my whole adult life and indeed some of my adolescence as well, I have studied Tolkien and I pass along the knowledge and wisdom and insights that I gain through constant study of Tolkien to you, the viewers and my readers as well, in the form of answering your questions. Uh we have a lot to go over and I have to have eight questions to get through today. It doesn't seem like a lot, eight, um but um I realized instead of trying to hit some sort of arbitrary number, I should uh really be just looking for a specific length of time and because last week we had nine questions, which has become kind of a standard number, but it was a really long episode and while I greatly enjoyed doing an extra long episode and I hope you guys enjoyed watching an extra long episode, it is rather draining on a on a physical level, especially when I have so much else going on.

[00:01:29]Um and I've had a rough week. Um we had some you know, just some some some health stuff, nothing really too concerning, but I am a sufferer of chronic migraines and I had quite a little bit of that going on. I'm also a sufferer of chronic uh insomnia and I had quite a bad bout of that. So it it's just been a rough week and also I've been working hard on a really big project along with Matt and Laurel and we're going to talk about that in just a little bit actually, but first let me tell you the normal things and ask you the normal things. First, I'm going to ask you the normal things.

[00:02:02]Like the video, comment on the video, share the video with someone you think might enjoy it, subscribe if you haven't already, hit the hype button if you happen to see that. Some people do see it and it really helps. Apparently, it works on only on the mobile app and you get like so many chances to hype something per week or something like that. But, if you just hit the like button and then you see a hype button, hit that for me. That really does help out. It really, really works.

[00:02:28]So, that being said, uh part of the reason that I've been a little bit more run down recently and um you know, just working so hard is that I've been helping Matt in producing our play. Now, I've talked about this play several times on the channel uh both in videos and I've talked about it uh in live streams and I have it right here. It is Beren and Lúthien, the play. This is the um the manuscript that Well, it's not really a It's not a manuscript. It's a typescript that uh Matt sent me and he sent it to uh Laurel and he sent it to Sid and uh Sid's not going to be a part of the production due to his own um busy schedule and health uh concerns as well.

[00:03:11]But, he is going to be with you guys in the audience. Now, this is going to be very soon. It's It's sort of creeping up on us.

[00:03:19]Um it is going to be performed live right here on YouTube as well as on Twitch on June the 4th.

[00:03:29]And that is going to be my Thursday night stream for June the 4th. It will be myself as well as Matt, who wrote the play, and uh Laurel, who will be performing in it as well. And it's going to be a pretty neat little production.

[00:03:42]We had uh table read and we had a dress rehearsal and uh we're going to have a second dress rehearsal, uh shortly before the actual production date, and then we're going to perform it for you guys. And of course, the video, if you if you can't be there live, the video will be available for everybody to watch.

[00:04:02]And there is going to be a second version of it that's going to come out a bit later that is going to be a little bit more produced and edited. That is going to be a members-only video, >> [music] >> um, where it will have, um, additional music and sound effects and additional artwork that is going to go on the screen. Um, but just to talk to you a little bit about the production of this play, because Matt wrote it, but I've been very involved in the actual production of it, is that it is going to be just like the town so talking, we'll have the three of us, but we're going to have a different backgrounds depending on what scene we are in. And also, we have a narrator. It's a good friend of mine named Wayne Jones, who is, uh, who did me a really really big favor by being our narrator. He is a professional radio broadcaster and voice actor, and he did a really amazing job. And it was really fun to be there with him. It was like a three and a half hour session of getting all it all done. And he was just going to say, "Hey, just send me the script and I'll do it, and I'll send you the the audio." And I said, "No, I think I need to be there with you, uh, coaching you on Elvis pronunciation and things like that." He's like, "Okay, you know, that's a really good point." So, um, you know, it's it's sort of becoming, uh, much less of just a group of friends and hobbyists just reading out this silly play that somebody wrote in it and a real production. So, um, there is going to be, like I said, the raw live version that anybody can watch, and for members-only, uh, you will get to see the produced version that will have additional music, additional sound effects, and additional, um, visual cues as well, such as the characters' faces appearing when they [music] speak. Um, I'd love to do that sort of thing live, but I'm already going to be performing several characters as well as changing the backdrops and making sure that the narration bits are played exactly when they need to be played. So, it's actually I've been spinning a lot of plates with this project. Um, but I'm doing everything I can to help Matt see his vision through because he wrote a really wonderful play here.

[00:06:06]Um, also if you're a member there are going to be some behind the scenes things such as our dress rehearsals. I will be releasing them on YouTube as behind the scenes and outtakes and things like that. So, if you haven't joined as a member and you're sort of thinking about it while seeing the videos early is sort of neat but what else you got for me?

[00:06:24]Well, here we have you're going to have an extra special edited version of the play as well as a lot of behind the scenes rehearsal footage, outtakes, and stuff like that. So, um, speaking of Beren and Lúthien, this is one of the backdrops that I will be using for the play and this is Hirilorn, which is the house in the trees that Lúthien was confined confined to by her father, um, Thingol to sort of prevent her from going with Beren and putting herself [music] in mortal danger. Of course, she escapes with a little bit of help from her mother. She escapes >> [music] >> and then goes and helps Beren because Beren had tried to do the quest once already and he sort of failed and and and Finrod was slain and it was all terrible thing. And for the second attempt it it is not just Beren or Beren and Finrod but it is Beren and Lúthien.

[00:07:10]And to be honest, she kind of does most of the work. Uh, Lúthien's really the star of Beren and Lúthien. And we have a question about Beren and Lúthien later that, um, well, it's sort of a general Silmarillion question but it it's about Morgoth but it relates to [music] specifically the tale of Beren and Lúthien. So, I'm going to be talking about it and reading from several different versions of it. But while I was searching out all the different versions of Beren and Lúthien, um, I read a little bit from uh, The Shaping of Middle-earth, which I have here in front of me. And in The Shaping of Middle Earth, there is a version of the story called the Quenta, also known as the Quenta Noldorinwa or Pennas in Nungoloth.

[00:07:53]And, uh, I It's a very brief period, but I thought, "Oh, that would be a fun reading to do. We'll read a little bit of the Quenta for our reading." So, here we are. I'm going to read a little bit for you guys from The Shaping of Middle Earth. Here we are.

[00:08:09]This is a brief history of the Noldoli or Gnomes drawn from the Book of Lost Tales, which Ariel of Luthien wrote, having read the Golden Book which the Eldar call Parma Kuluina in Kortirion in Tol Eressea, the Lonely Isle.

[00:08:28]After the making of the world by the Allfather, who in Elvish tongue is named Ilúvatar, many of the mightiest spirits that dwelt with him came into the world to govern it. Because seeing it afar after it was made, they were filled with delight at its beauty.

[00:08:44]These spirits the Elves named the Valar, which is the powers, though men have often called them gods.

[00:08:51]Many spirits they brought in their train, both great and small, and some of these men have confused with the Eldar or Elves, but wrongly, [music] for they were before the world, but Elves and men awoke first in the world after the coming of the Valar.

[00:09:08]Yet in the making of the Elves and men, and in the giving to each of their especial gifts, Ilúvatar alone had part.

[00:09:15]Wherefore they are called the Children of the World or of Ilúvatar.

[00:09:20]The chieftains of the Valar were nine.

[00:09:23]These were the names of the nine gods in Elvish tongue as it was spoken in Valinor, though other or altered names they have in the speech of the Gnomes.

[00:09:32]And their names among men are manifold.

[00:09:34]Manwë was the lord of the gods and prince of the airs and winds and the ruler of the sky. With him dwelt his spouse, the immortal lady of the heights, Varda, the maker of the stars.

[00:09:45]Next in might and closest in friendship to Manwë was Ulmo, lord of waters, who dwells alone in the outer seas, but has in government all waves and waters, rivers, fountains, and springs throughout the earth.

[00:09:58]Subject to him, though he is often of rebellious mood, is Ossë, the master of the seas of the lands of men, whose spouse is Uinen, the lady of the sea.

[00:10:08]Her hair lies spread through all the waters under skies.

[00:10:11]Of might nigh equal to Ulmo was Aulë.

[00:10:15]He was a smith and master of crafts, but his spouse was Yavanna, the lover of fruits and all the growth of the soil.

[00:10:23]In might was she next among the ladies of the Valar to Varda. Very fair was she and often the elves named her Palúrien, the bosom of the earth.

[00:10:33]The Fëanturi were called those brothers, Mandos and Lórien.

[00:10:37]Námo, the first, was also called the master of the houses of the dead and the gatherer of the spirits of the slain.

[00:10:44]Olafantur was the other, maker of visions and of dreams in his gardens in the land of the gods were the fairest of all places in the world and filled with many spirits of beauty and power.

[00:10:56]Strongest of all the gods in limbs and greatest in all feats of prowess and valor was Tulkas, for which reason he was surnamed Poldorea, the strong one.

[00:11:07]And he was the enemy and foe of Melko.

[00:11:09]Oromë was a mighty lord and little less in strength than Tulkas.

[00:11:13]He was a hunter and trees he loved, whence he was called Aldaron and by the Noldor Tauron, lord of forests, and delighted in horses and in hounds.

[00:11:23]He hunted even in the dark earth before the sun was lit and loud were his horns, as still they are in the friths and pastures that Oromë possesses in Valinor.

[00:11:33]Vána was his spouse, the queen of flowers, the youngest sister of Arda and the Pelóri. And beauty of both heaven and earth is in her face and in her works. Yet mightier than she is Nienna, who dwells with Námo and Irmo.

[00:11:48]Pity is in her heart, and mourning and weeping come to her.

[00:11:52]But shadow is her realm, and night her throne.

[00:11:56]Last of all named Melkor, but the Noldor, who most have suffered from his evil, will not speak his name Melkor in their own tongues form, but call him Morgoth Bauglir, the black god terrible.

[00:12:10]Very mighty was he made by Ilúvatar, and some of powers of all the Valar he possessed.

[00:12:16]But to evil uses did he turn them. He coveted the world and the lordship of Manwë and the realms of all the gods, and pride and jealousy and lust were ever in his heart, till he became unlike his wise and mighty brethren. Violence he loved and wrath and destruction and all excess of cold and flame. But darkness most he used for his works and turned to evil and a name of horror among Elves and Men.

[00:12:42]I'm going to stop there. I I would normally go a little bit further, but uh that's pretty much like the very beginning. A little bit of sort of not really the Ainulindalë, uh because it sort of picks up after that, because it starts with after the making of the world. Uh so in this version, uh one of the early Silmarillions, the Quenta or Qenta Noldorinwa, a he is basically starting here with the um uh what we would eventually know as the Valaquenta, which is this is all about the Valar and the Maiar. And notice that it tells you, okay, we're going to tell you about the the Valar, but also it's sort of like lumps Ossë and Uinen in there with them, even though they're not Valar. They're just sort of mentioned because of the importance they have in the tale.

[00:13:31]There's a few things to talk about, and I'm glad I chose this passage not only for the relation of I'm going to read a very brief part of the Lúthien story from this version of the story later on when we talk about Morgoth and his lust for Lúthien, but also there is another question that came through and I actually this week answered some rather old questions, not that like they're super super old, but that they've been sitting there for a while. Some of them were anonymous, and I just wanted to concentrate on people, you know, questions that came from people who gave names, but then um some of them just required a lot of thought and research as well, so that's sort of why I've been playing catch up this week.

[00:14:13]But anyway, uh what's really interesting about this is that we're going to talk about Melkor's role or in this version he's still called Melko, although notice the name Morgoth is in there.

[00:14:25]Um and some of the names are different, you know, Námo is not called Námo, uh although he is referred to as Mandos. Uh he went through quite a few names, but um there is a question that's going to come in about free will and Melkor's uh sort of role in that or his perceived role and and sort of a question that well, it came through anonymously, and I kind of understand why somebody would request this question anonymously because I think it it might have been uh a cur- sort of a what they call a bait question to sort of bait out a a specific response, and maybe that's true or maybe it's not true, but it gave me some opportunity to talk about that. But um I bring up various texts to bring forth a point. I didn't use this particular passage because it's sort of superfluous compared to the others. It's saying the same thing. But you know, yet another example of the children of Ilúvatar, sometimes called the children of God or the children of the world um being something that Eru Ilúvatar made alone and not with help from any of the spirits or uh angels or um gods uh depending on what you want to call them.

[00:15:35]And notice that um if you have a copy of The Shaping of Middle-earth, it's page 78 here where it says though men have often called them gods and this is a really rare thing because Tolkien actually uses the uppercase G there.

[00:15:52]And he very rarely does that when he refers to the Valar. Usually when he in the older text when he refers to the Valar as gods, it is the lowercase G because they're not really gods. They are high angels.

[00:16:08]And uh what's really interesting about it in this case, he is saying um something very different from what that passage would wind up being in the published Valaquenta in The Silmarillion where it was they are the Valar, which is it means the powers, but it is Englished as gods. Actually, I don't even think it's Valaquenta. I think it's the intro to The Silmarillion.

[00:16:31]Um what he's basically saying is that um in typical English speaking, we would call them gods lowercase G uh because he was transitioning from the very uh sort of idea of them being a pantheon into the idea of them being angels. And you see he is referring to them as spirits. And in this case, he is saying, "Well, men thought they were gods capital G, but they are actually not. That is a mistake that was made uh which I think is actually a good touch.

[00:17:05]I think it's actually a good touch to have that in there uh because it makes perfect sense that men worshipped the Valar. We see it happened in places like Númenor uh Uh, whereas elves, they give thanks to the Valar and and everything, but they're not they don't worship them in that specific sense. They they worship Ilúvatar, although they did also worship Ilúvatar in Númenor.

[00:17:29]And of course, one of these days we'll have to read a little bit more about the, um, religious customs in Númenor because it's actually quite fascinating. It's mostly found in Unfinished Tales. Um, a little bit in a very very little bit in The Lord of the Rings appendix.

[00:17:45]But anyway, um, there you have it. So, like I said, we have eight questions to go through. If you have a question for me, feel free to ask it in, uh, in a comment and I will be happy to answer you there. But if you want to be featured in the video, there's two ways to submit a question. One is through a website called Quora. Quora is a knowledge-sharing platform where you can ask any sort of question about any sort of subject, even some really ridiculous things going by the Quora digests that I get.

[00:18:11]Um, and you can have people with relevant knowledge or wisdom or experience or expertise or education answer you. And if you ask any sort of Tolkien question on there, you're going to get a list of people who typically answer Tolkien questions and get a lot of views or they get a lot of upvotes. My name will be on the list. It'll be at or near the top of the list and you can tag me there that way. In the description of this and every single video is a link directly [music] to my Quora account, as well as my Quora space, which is called the Grey Havens, which not only has all of my writing, but the writing of many other Tolkien scholars that I think are great.

[00:18:47]Uh, that being said, if you don't want to go through Quora, uh, some people have said it's a hurdle to sign up for a different website, even though I think it's easy to sign up and it is free, but you're already on YouTube and you want to do it through YouTube, you can do it through, uh, the community page on my, uh, on my channel. You have to do it through the mobile app. Just go to the mobile app, uh, go to my channel.

[00:19:06]There's going to be a button. It's not a tab, it's a button that says community.

[00:19:10]Uh, they keep changing what it says, but the word community should be in there.

[00:19:13]Click on that and then you should be able to make a post and if there's a question in a post there made by a person, I'm going to assume that's being submitted for a video. And of course, if I don't get to your question for quite a long time, it could mean that I've decided to pass on it due to various reasons. Sometimes it's because I've answered it kind of recently or sometimes it's just because it's not really my cup of tea, but sometimes I let a question sit there for a while for other reasons including that I just want to do it at a later date or maybe I just need to do a bunch of research or I just need to figure out what angle I'm going to go through. So, don't get discouraged and don't feel like you can't send me more questions. Some people send quite a lot all at once and I sort of try to parse them out. This week we are going to be catching up with some of the more anonymous ones that have been sitting on for a while. So, that's going to be fun.

[00:20:03]Anyway, let's go ahead and start with your first question.

[00:20:15]Our first question comes in by the request of Maddie C who asks what would happen to Saruman if he was released after his defeat and sent to Mordor to join his master Sauron.

[00:20:29]Let's get this out of the way first. I have an answer for you, but let's get this out of the way. Sauron was not his master and he knew that and Sauron knew that and Gandalf knew that very well.

[00:20:43]The fairly it's fairly blatant that Saruman has no master other than himself.

[00:20:50]He never intended to join Sauron in any real sort of way.

[00:20:56]That's really important to understand.

[00:20:57]Not only was Sauron aware of this from the very first communication.

[00:21:04]Because he He the master of lies and deception [music] himself, and you can't BS a master BS-er, but Saruman said as much to Gandalf. Saruman went full mask [music] off when Gandalf came to Isengard. Yes, he trapped Gandalf within Isengard and detained him on the peak of Orthanc, but note that he didn't do a lot of the things that you might expect him to do being who he is and and and and who he's you think he might ally himself with.

[00:21:36]He did not attempt to deprive Gandalf of his staff.

[00:21:41]And he did not attempt to deprive Gandalf of his Ring of Power, which he and he did in fact know about the Ring of Power.

[00:21:48]>> [snorts] >> Um and he, you know, he had uncovered that secret according to Unfinished Tales.

[00:21:54]And this is for a very good reason.

[00:21:55]Saruman really honestly believes that he is in the right.

[00:22:02]And Gandalf is just being stubborn, and he isn't seeing reason. Saruman fully expects Gandalf to eventually realize that he's right and that his way is the only correct way to defeat Sauron.

[00:22:16]Now, Saruman told the unabashed truth to Gandalf in an attempt to get him to join with him, especially as he did realize that Gandalf knew the location of the One Ring and that it was somehow tied up with the Shire.

[00:22:29]He wasn't ever joining Sauron, only lying about joining him in an attempt to get the Dark Lord to trust him and then usurp him using the Ring and then turn the Ring's evil power to good. Of course, it's blatantly impossible to do, which is what Gandalf responded with. Sauron was not fooled for a moment.

[00:22:52]But he was happy to let Saruman be his useful idiot. Saruman could trouble his enemies in Rohan, thus giving him uncontested access to Gondor.

[00:23:04]Not only did Saruman fail miserably at stopping Rohan, but shortly after his disastrous loss, Sauron came to believe that Saruman captured the Hobbit ring-bearer and then subsequently lost the ring to Aragorn.

[00:23:19]Saruman could not even attempt to explain himself and try to lie his way out of the hole that he had dug as his palantir got chucked away and it was Pippin and Aragorn who led Sauron to believe the ring was in Minas Tirith.

[00:23:33]Gandalf knows that Saruman is basically seen in Mordor as an untrustworthy fool and a miserable failure. The mouth of Sauron even stated that Sauron planned to give Isengard to someone who was more trustworthy, which Gandalf surmised he believed would be himself. So, if Saruman had taken up Gandalf's offer, he would be acting wildly out of character, but after surrendering his staff and his key, Mordor would be the absolute last place that he would want to go. He would find no welcome there and he would be in worse danger than ever and that's exactly what Gandalf told him. So, if he had given himself up and been free to go as he will, he wouldn't go to Mordor.

[00:24:20]Uh nothing good would be waiting for him there. He would probably try to go to the Shire like he eventually did anyway.

[00:24:28]Since he already had a a lot of business there. So, there you have it. All right, let's move on to the next question.

[00:24:40]>> [music] >> Our next question came in anonymously and it's a short, simple question with a not so short, but very simple answer. Could Gandalf defeat Sauron?

[00:24:52]He can.

[00:24:54]And he did.

[00:24:55]And he did it >> [music] >> in the correct way.

[00:24:59]Now, let's not mince words. The wizards were sent to Middle-earth to defeat Sauron.

[00:25:04]Sure, they were forbidden to actually engage in combat with him, but they were still sent to defeat him, and Gandalf succeeded. Now, it it was Frodo and Sam that got the One Ring to Mount Doom.

[00:25:17]And and it was Gollum that destroyed it.

[00:25:19]It was Aragorn and Eomer that defeated Sauron's armies at Minas Tirith, Treebeard that raised Isengard, Theoden and Ekenbrand at Helm's Deep along with, you know, Gimli and Legolas and Aragorn and a bunch of other people as well.

[00:25:31]But who was it that put all of these pieces on the board?

[00:25:36]Think of this, the crucial moments in the story, Frodo moving across Mordor with Sam.

[00:25:43]They don't get detected because Sauron has emptied his [music] lands to face Aragorn and Gandalf and Imrahil at the Black Gate. And this is because his defeat at Minas Tirith happened after sending his armies before they were ready to crush Gondor.

[00:26:00]Why did he rush his attack when he pretty much has unlimited time to build his army sufficiently while Gondor continues to decline?

[00:26:09]Because he believed the One Ring was there.

[00:26:13]What brought him to this conclusion?

[00:26:16]Palantir calls from Aragorn and a certain hobbit.

[00:26:20]Was that hobbit really supposed to be there? Elrond seemed to think not, but who did think that he should be there?

[00:26:26]Gandalf. Who said that Gollum had a part to play in the end?

[00:26:31]That Bilbo was meant to find the ring, that Frodo was meant to carry it.

[00:26:36]Gandalf is the answer to all of these questions. Now, out of all the tiny and complex parts that make up the fall of Sauron, a lot of times it wound up being Gandalf that was moving pieces on the board and perceiving when other unseen hands were moving them and reacting accordingly. Even then, essentially at one point he gives up the quest that he believed would fail without him and put his faith in Aragorn to go on without him so that he could stop the Balrog, a feat for which he was resurrected for and uniquely empowered by Ilúvatar to oust Saruman from the council in the order of the wizards and replace him.

[00:27:16]Gandalf knew how to move the pieces without controlling people or denying them their own wills and how he knew how to listen rather than speak.

[00:27:29]He defeated Sauron in the most meaningful way. His armies defeated, his ring destroyed, unable to ever return to power. So, Gandalf absolutely defeated Sauron 100% and he did it in the only way that would really matter.

[00:27:49]Let's move on to the next question.

[00:27:58]Our next question comes in by the request of Danny Lyndon who asks, "Did Sauron feel real allegiance to Morgoth? Evil is not cooperative, so it makes sense to me that Sauron would overthrow the weakened Morgoth."

[00:28:15]Uh we actually The idea of Morgoth being weakened We actually talked about this in great detail in last week's episode, so I highly recommend you check that out. Um let's talk about this specifically though. It is true that evil is never cooperative. Sauron did not have any love for Morgoth. However, that doesn't mean that he would overthrow him.

[00:28:36]That's important.

[00:28:38]Let's talk about it. The idea of Morgoth being so diminished and I'm sort of repeating information from last week, but I went into a lot more detail then.

[00:28:48]The idea of him being so diminished that Sauron could overthrow him is just not accurate.

[00:28:54]In the book Morgoth's Ring, Tolkien clears up that completely, stating that though we talk about Morgoth becoming shrunken or diminished or weakened, that is only in relation to the other Valar.

[00:29:07]He has spent a lot of his power on the metaphorical ring, pouring his power into Middle-earth, and by commanding the creatures below him, and less of it less of his power exists within his frame.

[00:29:20]When confronted by his brother Manwë, they were both amazed at the shift in power dynamics. He could no longer daunt Manwë just with a gaze. Morgoth also voluntarily gave up power enough to become the least of the Valar to get them to forgive him. So, even as diminished as he was, he was still one of the Valar, and Sauron could not so easily overthrow him. By the end of the War of Wrath, he's now so much weakened and was defeated by Eönwë, who is a Maia.

[00:29:54]Uh but that is also chalked up a lot to the fact that he was unvaliant in battle.

[00:30:00]And Eönwë was the most skilled combatant with weapons in all of the world, and he was not afraid. Sauron, on the other hand, he has a great track record for cowardice.

[00:30:11]Even if Morgoth had become indeed so weak as to be overthrown by Sauron, that doesn't mean that Sauron would actually attempt such a thing. Sauron joined with Morgoth for a simple reason. He thought it was beneficial to himself to do so, and it was beneficial to his long-term goals to do so. Just because they have no love or affection or camaraderie for each other does not mean that there isn't a certain degree of respect [music] and fear.

[00:30:40]Sauron is also very much a pragmatist.

[00:30:44]And he would find it to be a waste of energy to battle with someone who was doing things that he liked just because he perceived himself to be the greater.

[00:30:53]Morgoth would not bow to Sauron. That's just never going to happen. So, only destruction would suffice. And I think that they were both wise enough to know that fighting each other was not going to benefit either of them. It was only going to benefit their enemies. So, it it's important to note and I I repeat that line a lot. It actually came from Tolkien. But I repeat it a lot. Evil is never cooperative.

[00:31:19]However, they sometimes evil creatures will sometimes cooperate with each other. And if you're thinking, well, that's just sort of like saying, yes and no. And that's not the case. There is a distinction. When I say evil is not cooperative, what I'm saying is that in those moments where the evil characters do cooperate with each other, they are doing so selfishly. They are doing so because they think that they have the upper hand or they think that they are fulfilling their goals. And we just talked a little bit about Saruman and Sauron. They were certainly not cooperating and and they were enemies.

[00:31:53]But Saruman thought he could fool Sauron and Sauron thought, this guy is going to do things that I'm going to enjoy like attacking Rohan. So, I'll just let him let him do it. So, uh yeah, if you've ever saw that film 300, it's sort of an infuriating film a lot of ways. It's entertaining, but a very infuriating.

[00:32:13]And one of the most infuriating things is there was a there was a point in the film when King Leonidas meets this character and whose name I forgot, but he was this very big powerful man who also was uh sort of disabled. Like he he could fight, but uh he had like one like really small arm and one like really big arm.

[00:32:35]And uh he wanted to join the Spartans and Leonidas gives him this sort of cock-and-bull story about well, you know, you can't raise your shield and then and we fight in a phalanx and all this stuff and and then of course you you rarely see them do that and really what he could have said, you know, because the guy was saying all I I'll I'll you know, I'll let you I'll be my king and I'll I'll kill so many Persians for you and it's going to be amazing and King Leonidas if he was smart, he could have said, "Yeah, sure, man.

[00:33:08]Go ahead, do it." Even if he didn't approve of the guy and even if he thought, "Well, this guy's probably not going to survive for very long because he could barely lift a shield, but he'll take out a few of my enemies and he's not going to really be in the way and it's not going to be a problem." That whole thing about, "Oh, but you can't protect anybody with your shield." is sort of like, you know, it it's sort of ridiculous, you know, and that was sort of an infuriating moment. There's a lot of infuriating moments in watching that, especially if you know the history of that battle and how it all went down and everything.

[00:33:40]Very infuriating movie and the book was even worse actually. The comic book that it was based off of. It's still entertaining though. It was an entertaining film. I'll give it that.

[00:33:50]But that's the sort of thing that's the sort [snorts] of attitude that Sauron is having in this instance and it's sort of the same opportunity that both Sauron and Morgoth had. Morgoth knew that all these people, these these Balrogs and everything and Sauron, they are only with him because they perceive that it's good for them.

[00:34:12]Not because they think he's great.

[00:34:14]You know, and that was a big problem for him in some ways and that's why he expended so much energy on dominating the creatures below him because he wanted complete loyalty, which is something that as the creator of evil, he knows that evil cannot be loyal, but it can be cowed into a mockery of loyalty. So, Sauron, you know, even if he was, in a sense, able to topple Morgoth, it's not going to be quick and easy. It's not going to be something He's not going to come in and say, "Look, man, I'm stronger than you, so I'm in charge now." There's going to be a fight.

[00:34:54]They're both going to expend a lot of energy. They're both going to hurt each other, and they're going to destroy their own devices and their own plans.

[00:35:06]So, there you have it.

[00:35:08]All right, let's move on to the next question.

[00:35:17]Our next question came in anonymously, and it asks, "What was a significant shift in Tolkien's evolving mythology that you believe reshaped his entire trajectory the entire trajectory of his world?" Uh so, I thought about this a little bit. I thought about this for quite a while, and there's so many different things, right? There's so many significant shifts, especially since the mind of Professor Tolkien was constantly changing, and he was constantly revising and rewriting and changing things. But, I decided and I think me and Sid talk about this one quite a lot. It would be on the shoulders of an elf named Glorfindel.

[00:35:56]When Tolkien was writing the early drafts of The Lord of the Rings, when Frodo was still called Bingo, and Strider was called Trotter, uh there was a plan for a golden-haired powerful elf lord to join the Fellowship, and he would have used the name Glorfindel, which was a name that he had used in another story that he'd written at this point. He had not published it, but he'd written it. It was called The Fall of Gondolin.

[00:36:20]Now, The Fall of Gondolin would wind up going through a a great many revisions throughout the years, uh though none would be published in Tolkien's lifetime. The original version was later found in The Book of Lost Tales part two and there are of course are are versions of it in The Lays of Beleriand and in The Silmarillion and you can get a compilation, which I have right here, of most versions of the book and it's just called The Fall of Gondolin.

[00:36:45]So it has [music] a lot of the different versions there that you could read of of that particular tale.

[00:36:50]Now, let's back up a little bit actually to The Hobbit. The Fall of Gondolin as a story predates The Hobbit but a few names for uh from The Fall of Gondolin were actually used in The Hobbit. So there's Elrond and Turgon and of course Gondolin itself was mentioned. The Hobbit was not something that Tolkien considered to be a continuation of his work. He was just putting in references to it. The Lord of the Rings started off very similarly. But as the tale grew in its grandiosity, he started making more and more connections to his older works.

[00:37:22]The Necromancer eventually became Sauron. Morgoth was mentioned. Strider became a descendant of Beren and Lúthien, which was a whole different story.

[00:37:31]Elrond was explicitly said to be Turgon's great-grandson. Even his grand unfinished science fiction tale, The Lost Road, wound up absorbed into the greater myth. Thus, the characters were no longer just mere references but they were the same characters.

[00:37:50]Or were they?

[00:37:51]It was decided for The Lord of the Rings that Galdor, who was an elf that appears during the Council of Elrond, was not the same Galdor that is in The Fall of Gondolin but that Glorfindel was.

[00:38:03]Then Tolkien realized something.

[00:38:04]Glorfindel had died during The Fall of Gondolin.

[00:38:08]He could have done a few different things here to fix this issue. He could have changed his mind that Glorfindel in The Lord of the Rings was actually a different character. Perhaps he was named in honor after the original. But this would actually have taken away from having a character essentially ride out of the first age into Frodo's tale.

[00:38:28]He also could have gone back and changed the fall of Gondolin to have Glorfindel survive, which would have been easy considering how no version of it had yet been published.

[00:38:39]But this [snorts] would have robbed that tale of an important and impactful moment.

[00:38:44]The simple continuity snarl that he found [music] himself in wound up putting Tolkien into a box and then he wound up inventing his way out of the box by inventing the concept of Elvish reincarnation. His elves were always immortal.

[00:39:01]Though in early visions they did use a drink called lempa to retain their youth, but they could die permanently, at least semi-permanently. He even had an entire mythology behind Mandos, which was called Veth at the time, and he included how exactly Elvish immortal souls met their final disposition. Now, at this point everything was a was a bit different.

[00:39:23]Ilúvatar was mostly just called God or the Allfather. The Valar were the gods with a lowercase G, we talked about that earlier. Elvish souls still had a different fate from mortals and they stayed within the world, but they were not reincarnated in that way that we we know of, but they were reborn as children without memories of their past lives. Essentially, they were just recycled back into the world. So, essentially you could say same soul, different person.

[00:39:51]This would not work for Glorfindel. If he was reborn as a child, he would not have the same name unless it was this vast coincidence that he was named after who he was in a previous life.

[00:40:05]Everything had to essentially be rewritten on a cosmological level, making elves so immortal that they can't ever die and bodily death is just a setback for them.

[00:40:16]This greatly changed the trajectory of the tale, as well as many characters like Finduilas, Miriel, Fëanor, Finrod, Andrath, and even Morgoth. And the reader's understanding of it all was shifted greatly. While the most detailed depictions of the old mythology is found in The Book of Lost Tales Part One, now the most detailed version would appear primarily across Morgoth's Ring and The Peoples of Middle-earth and The Nature of Middle-earth. The complexities that arose completely changed the heading of the ship, so to speak.

[00:40:47]What's incredible is that this new version of Mandos was right there in The Hobbit. Thorin, just before he dies, mentions the Halls of Waiting where dwarves will sit by their forebears.

[00:40:59]This became the blueprint for the new Mandos, where elves who were slain just sort of sit in time out.

[00:41:05]It altered small parts and large [music] parts of older tales, such as Beren now mortal rather than being an elf, could be the only resurrected mortal.

[00:41:15]Orgoth, who became known later as Saeros, was now mentioned in The Children of Húrin to be long held in Mandos after his accidental [music] death, which became even more accidental upon revision. Originally, it was Túrin sort of just beating the the the the stuffing out of him, and he just hit him a little too hard, and his head smashed into a rock, and he died. And that was changed to he was just chasing him, and Saeros went over a cliff, which is a lot more accidental, I think. Now, we can consider that Tolkien could have just at this point thrown up his hands and just said, "You know what? I'm just not going to use the name of Glorfindel in The Lord of the Rings.

[00:41:52]And and maybe I could use a different character from The Fall of Gondolin, uh somebody who survived, like Legolas."

[00:42:00]There was indeed a character named Legolas in The Fall of Gondolin, and he did not die. He sailed to the West, living in a Tol Eressëa, and he adapted his name to the Quenya form Laegalad.

[00:42:11]Uh as Glorfindel was planned to be sent from the West to aid Gil-galad and Elrond, he could have just kept Glorfindel dead and substituted Legolas even using once again his Sindarin name in Middle-earth. However, Tolkien decided that having a powerful elf lord of the First Age in the Fellowship was just too much and he wanted to include a Sindar character connecting him to Thranduil, so we got the other Legolas.

[00:42:39]At this point, Glorfindel could have easily be excised from The Lord of the Rings, replaced perhaps by one of Elrond's sons or by Erestor or in the film by Arwen.

[00:42:50]However, it seems that Tolkien saw this not as a problem to be solved, but rather as an opportunity for a grand revision, uh, one of many that absolutely made his mythology better.

[00:43:05]Okay, let's move on to the next question.

[00:43:13]>> [music] >> Uh, this next question This actually didn't come in anonymously. I'm just choosing to make it anonymous. I'm not going to say the person's name because it's a ridiculous question and I'm allowed to sometimes entertain ridiculous questions and sort of pull them apart.

[00:43:31]I don't want to embarrass anybody or make anybody feel bad, um, by having other people mock them or whatever. So, I'm choosing to make this an anonymous one. I do have a name in front of me. I'm just not going to go there.

[00:43:44]Uh, here it is and I think you guys when you hear this, you're going to agree.

[00:43:47]What? You're going to say, "What?" Here it is. Could it be argued that Melkor, pre-Eä, was the one who bestowed free will on all of creation?"

[00:43:59]What?

[00:44:01]Anything could be argued. Let's just say that, right? Even things that are patently untrue, like this.

[00:44:09]One could argue any point, even the inane or the untrue. It might even convince some people out there. I just actually, and this is what inspired me to actually answer this question, I just had to endure another round of gasping faces on Facebook where yet another person in a in one of the many Tolkien groups I'm in on there, thought that they were being very clever by suggesting that Frodo Baggins' parents were in fact killed by Gollum.

[00:44:35]Now, I talked about that in the past. I I busted that myth completely. I proved beyond any sort of shadow of a doubt that that can't be true.

[00:44:45]Uh it's literally impossible.

[00:44:49]And the argument that they they have when they talk about this, they say, "Well, you know, a lot Here's my theory. Gollum killed Frodo's parents.

[00:44:58]And here's my argument. I think it would be really cool."

[00:45:02]And my answer is, "No. No, it's not cool. And uh it also could not have happened." So, there's nothing in Tolkien's writing that suggests that Melkor gave anyone free will. And there's plenty to suggest that he not only didn't, but he is not capable of doing such a thing.

[00:45:21]Now, firstly, there's the fact that free will is a creation of Ilúvatar and Ilúvatar alone. The Valar can create life, and this is another thing I have to just go on a small tangent about.

[00:45:32]This is another one of these things that just isn't at all even a little bit worthy of debate, but people manage to debate it anyway.

[00:45:41]Anyway, it is beyond debate that the Valar can create life because they do it. They do it constantly.

[00:45:48]Yavanna made trees, Manwë made birds, Ulmo made fish. Pretty much all of the plant and animal life on the planet was made by the Valar.

[00:45:57]>> [snorts] >> The rules were never The Valar could not create life. That is a mishmash of two other rules. The first is evil cannot create, only corrupt, which is why the creatures that are created by the likes of Melkor are corruptions and mockeries.

[00:46:14]The other rule is that only Ilúvatar can give true life, which is free will.

[00:46:20]Now, we'll see this with Aulë, who created the dwarves. [music] The dwarves had no free will until Ilúvatar gave them free will, and it was demonstrated by the fact that when Aulë, thinking that Ilúvatar wished him to destroy them, picked up his hammer and they cringed and cried out for their lives, something that they were not capable of doing previously because they could only do what Aulë bid them to do. Melkor found loopholes in the free will uh stipulation by corrupting existing creatures. But that also plays into the evil cannot create anything new or anything beautiful idea. Now that we've covered that, we can see that Melkor has no ability to give anything free will, nor would the children of Ilúvatar be lacking free will before he found them.

[00:47:05]In the book The War of the Jewels, we learn a tale of the very first elves, Imin, Tata, and Enel, and how they gathered up followers from the original pool of 144 elves. They invented language when they first saw Lady elves and they wished to convey their feelings. They created factions, they created culture. This first the three groups of elves, the Iminyar, the Tatyar, and the Nelyar became later on the Valar, the Teleri, and the Noldor.

[00:47:35]Everything that they did was of their own will because no Vala had discovered them. For though they were all of the Valar were aware that the elves would awaken at some point and that men would awaken at some later point, they didn't know where and they didn't know when.

[00:47:52]Melkor was absolutely the first to discover them. And he took elves for his own, and he tortured them, and they met bad ends, but then Oromë found them. And they were bid by Oromë to come to the Undying Lands, but some of them refused, which was their own will and their own right. Now, you could state that Melkor influenced this decision, which created the fourth kind of elf, the Avari, and you know, because they had legends of a great hunter who took the elves, and they were never seen again, and that was Melkor, but they didn't understand that Oromë was a different person. Uh Melkor did not give them the ability to make that choice. His actions just had an effect. The last nail in the coffin is the Ainurandali, the song that all of the angels, Valar and Maiar, both sang to create essentially the blueprints of the universe from which Ilúvatar used the Secret Fire to make real.

[00:48:46]It is mentioned that the Children of Ilúvatar, which is the people with free will, were of the third theme, and not understood by the Ainur. I'm going to read you a passage.

[00:49:01]For the Children of Ilúvatar were conceived by him alone, and they came with the third theme, and were not in the theme which Ilúvatar propounded at the beginning, and none of the Ainur had part in their making.

[00:49:13]Therefore, when they beheld him, the more did they love them, being things older than themselves, [music] strange and free, wherein they saw the mind of Ilúvatar reflected anew, and learned yet a little more of his wisdom, which otherwise had been hidden even from the Ainur.

[00:49:30]A little bit later, we see that from Melkor's part, not only does he not have the ability to gift free will, but he wouldn't want to. He hates that the children will have wills of their own, and he wishes for them only to bow to him. I'm going to read you another passage.

[00:49:48]And he feigned even to himself at first that he desired to go thither and order all things for the good of the children of Ilúvatar, creating the turmoils of the heat and cold that had come to pass through him.

[00:49:59]But he desired rather to subdue to his will both Elves and Men, envying the gifts with which Ilúvatar promised to endow them. And he wished himself to have subjects and servants and to be called lord and to be a master over others' wills.

[00:50:14]So, as to whether anyone could argue, "Whoa, fan theory, it was actually Melkor that gave people free will.

[00:50:21]Follow me for more #hottakes."

[00:50:24]I will merely quote the great Dale Gribble, "I am skeptical that you could, but yet intrigued that you may."

[00:50:33]Let's move on to the next question.

[00:50:37]>> [music] >> Our next question comes in by the request of, I hope I'm saying this right, Sala Selic, who asks, "Did Morgoth feel any physical desire for Lúthien?" Yes, absolutely he did.

[00:50:53]The Silmarillion is, I think, very chaste about this matter, but Tolkien didn't generally shy away from this sort of thing in the way that most people think he did. Uh the Silmarillion is, and I can't stress this enough, the Elvish version of events, and as such [music] it is seen through their lens with their bias.

[00:51:11]Thus, as Lúthien is one of their most beloved kin to ever exist, uh the daughter of Melian and a Sindar king, the thought of anything unsavory happening to her was almost unthinkable.

[00:51:23]However, Lúthien was indeed the object of lust a few times, and Morgoth was not the only one. Celegorm also got in on the ugliness.

[00:51:32]In this case, the actual depths of Melkor's depravity are glossed over. All we know about his romantic intentions is that he once loved Varda, but she did not love him back, choosing his brother Manwë instead. However, in Tolkien's more detailed works, we get a look at exactly how messed up he is. The Varda thing is just sort of whatever. He had a crush on her, she didn't like him back, and that's sort of the end of the story. Melkor had a sort of a complicated relationship with beings of light. He desires them, but he also hates them, or rather he hates when they're not under his control.

[00:52:11]Varda was so far beyond him, putting her lights high up in the heavens where he cannot reach. It is sometimes said that Melkor's chief enemy was actually the sun, and to a lesser extent the moon. The sun is also up in the heavens and is held by Arien, a [music] beautiful Maia spirit of flame who did not join him as the Balrogs did. He desired her, and she rebuffed him. Though exactly how far this went depends on the version. In some versions, he merely made a pass at her. In others, Tolkien straight-up states that he ravished her.

[00:52:47]Either way, she burned him, and this event was said to account for the grayish hue of his skin. Now, the Arien story is only tangentially related to Lúthien, but it is to show that Melkor is a being with desires that can be either romantic or the more base lust.

[00:53:05]Some people prefer to sort of mentally edit The Silmarillion, holding on for dear life to the thought that the word lust, which is used in relation to Melkor and Lúthien, has other meanings and that he merely wished to possess her or to dominate her.

[00:53:23]They point to passages in which the word lust is used for other purposes, such as lust for the Silmarils or a thing lusting for complete power.

[00:53:32]But, of course, meaning is largely dependent on context.

[00:53:37]Uh it's wishful thinking.

[00:53:39]And [music] it's sort of bizarre because it really is trying to convince oneself either that the devil is not as bad as he is or that Tolkien never wrote anything unsavory happening.

[00:53:53]The former is odd. Stating that Melkor does not experience baser desires when that's pretty much his entire personality. The latter I think is worse. It's willfully ignorant of the fact. So let's examine the different versions of the scene and the specific language that he used. I'm first going to read you a little bit from a uh from The Silmarillion the chapter of Beren and Lúthien.

[00:54:23]Then Morgoth looking upon her beauty conceived in his thought an evil lust.

[00:54:28]And a design more dark than any that had yet come into his heart since he fled from Valinor. Thus he was beguiled by his own malice for he watched her leaving her free for a while and taking secret pleasure in his thought.

[00:54:43]So in this it was in his thought an evil lust which combined with looking upon her beauty tells us all the facts.

[00:54:50]Melkor who is now an incarnate being with a real physical body that is him.

[00:54:55]It's not just his clothes. He is lusting after Lúthien. His design or plan for her was said to be the darkest thought that he has had since coming to Middle-earth after the darkening of Valinor. I don't really think uh very much that wanting to put her in a cage would be described or as such. Now let's look at a much older version and look at the words used. I'm going to read you a brief bit of The Book of Lost Tales part two.

[00:55:25]"Nay said Melko such things are little to my mind. But as thou hast come far to dance dance and after we will see."

[00:55:35]And with that he leered horribly for his dark mind pondered some evil.

[00:55:41]Uh this version has him leering at her as she dances for his dark mind pondered some evil eventually morphed into the design Morgoth line from The Silmarillion. It goes on to describe her dance in much more sensual language than we are used to in The Silmarillion describing how her mystery draperies touched his face and waved before his eyes and all this stuff. Prior to this passage Lúthien is even said to come openly to Melkor not to, you know, in disguises in other versions and tell a lie that she was driven out by her father. Uh reasoning being, I give not my love at his command. She then openly states that she wishes to dance for Melkor to convince him that she is there for him.

[00:56:25]Next, let's go to the poetic version.

[00:56:27]I'm going to read you a bit of the Lays of Beleriand.

[00:56:30]Why should ye not in our fate share of woe and travail or should I spare? To slender limb and body frail, breaking torment of what avail? Here does thou seem thy babbling song and foolish laughter, minstrel strong or at my call.

[00:56:46]Yet I will give a brief respite brief a while to live, a little while the purchase dear to Lúthien the fair and clear, a pretty toy for idle hour and slothful gardens many a flower. Like thee, the amorous gods are used. Honey sweet to kiss and cast and bruise, their fragrance loosing under feet. But here we seldom find such sweet to meet our labors long and hard from god-like idleness debarred. And who would not taste the honey sweet lying to lips or crush with feet the soft cool tissue of pale flowers, easing like gods the dragging hours? Ah, curse the gods oh hunger dire, oh blinding thirst's unending fire. One moment shall ye cease and slake your sting with morsel here I take.

[00:57:40]Yeah, that's a bit more explicit.

[00:57:43]Even if the language is much more flowery, he contemplates torturing her having stripped her of her disguise and recognizing her as Thingol's daughter.

[00:57:52]But then he muses aloud that he might have other plans in which she is a pretty toy that he could amuse himself with for an hour, kissing her and leaving her bruised. I mean, how much more explicit do you want Tolkien to get in his epic poem?

[00:58:07]Yeah, the kissing and the bruising part is indeed a simile, a comparative statement. He's comparing her to a flower, but one's used by the amorous gods. It's not subtle. It's really not.

[00:58:19]Uh there exists a more brief version that only makes an allusion. I'm going to read you very briefly from The Shaping of Middle-earth, uh specifically the Quenta Noldorinwa.

[00:58:30]She cast off her disguise and named her own name and feigned that she was brought captive by the wolves of Thû.

[00:58:37]And she beguiled Morgoth even as his heart plotted foul evil within him, and she danced before him.

[00:58:44]This version is much briefer, though it has Lúthien casting aside her disguise rather than having it stripped away by Melkor. He is still beguiled and plots foul evil while watching her dance. It's less explicitly stated that he lusts after her. This version is after chronologically after The Book of Lost Tales, uh but before the published Silmarillion.

[00:59:05]So it seems that in the earliest versions Tolkien was very detailed and explicit, and then he sort of reined it in for the prose version while keeping the poetic version even more in line with his original thought, and then, you know, finally finding the happy medium for the prose version. Either way, Melkor definitely is lusting after Lúthien in a very real and very physical way in this scene, much to his distraction and of course it worked against him.

[00:59:31]All right, let's move on to the next question.

[00:59:40]Our next question comes in by the request of Donald Callahan who asks, "Why was Vilya, the ring entrusted to Elrond, considered the greatest of the three Elven rings or so I've often read?

[00:59:50]Galadriel does astonishingly powerful things with Nenya, but I've never been clear as to why Vilya was considered the greatest."

[00:59:57]The ring itself was considered the chief among the three and that is actually separate from what any given elf does with the ring.

[01:00:05]Our first mention of Vilya being the chief of the three comes in The Lord of the Rings final chapter in which it is noted that Elrond is there ready to sail to the west holding a silver harp and visible on his hand is Vilya, mightiest of the three.

[01:00:22]Note that the word mightiest is used, not greatest. There's a small distinction there. The three were made by Celebrimbor and the other two were Nenya and Narya. Nenya is often called the Ring of Adamant or sometimes it's the Ring of Water while Nen- uh Narya is called the Ring of Fire and Vilya is the Ring of Air. And in this we see the idea of elements and air or the heavens, it's the highest and most noble. It's no coincidence then that the chief of the Valar and the king of Arda is Manwë, often associated with winds and the heavens and birds and air.

[01:00:54]Galadriel does a lot with her ring, but it's not that she's using it in a more powerful way than Elrond uses his. She's using it in a different way. She's using her ring uh you know in a in one way in a similar way to his to protect her realm like he protects his, but she's doing it differently. Her realm has a more timeless quality and is more like the Undying Lands. And there's no need to puzzle over this. Galadriel is making a bit of the Undying Lands in Middle-earth and she knows how to do this because she was born in the Undying Lands. She lived there, whereas Elrond was born in Middle Earth. And he's a lot younger than her. It's important to mention, as well. He hasn't been to the West. He has no frame of reference. He can't [music] make a bit of the Undying Lands in Middle Earth, like she can.

[01:01:40]Galadriel as a person is certainly, I would say, more powerful >> [music] >> and more magical than Elrond, especially in that he's mostly just, you know, like a healer, a scholar. However, when it comes to using the rings for actual shows of might, Galadriel doesn't really use her ring in that way.

[01:01:59]Her and Celeborn both cast down Dol Guldur.

[01:02:03]That's probably her biggest show of might. But this was after the destruction of the One Ring, when the three rings no longer had any power. So that was her own might. Elrond, however, is able to, with his ring, control the river and flood it when needed.

[01:02:20]Now, yes, in the instance of uh the river the Ford of Bruinen being flooded and the Nazgûl being washed away, Gandalf helped. He added a bit of his own might to that and made the waves look like riders upon horses. But it's understood that Elrond can flood the river whenever he wishes to.

[01:02:38]Vilya was not always used by Elrond.

[01:02:41]It wasn't just given to him in the beginning. It was once used by Ereinion Gil-galad, who was the final and the longest-reigning High King of the Noldor in Middle Earth. One could argue that Galadriel sort of outranks him.

[01:02:55]She is essentially his great aunt. Her older brother Angrod's son was Orodreth, and Orodreth is Gil-galad's father. But the point that I make in bringing up Gil-galad is that he was pretty incredible. If we consider the reigns of each king of the high each king of the high each High King of the Noldor in Middle Earth, we get the following.

[01:03:14]Fingolfin reigned for 449 years and was killed by Morgoth.

[01:03:19]Fingon reigned for 16 years and was killed by the Balrogs. Turgon reigned for 38 years, killed when the tower that he was in was torn down by dragons.

[01:03:29]Gil-galad reigned for 3,521 years and died from his injuries shortly after killing Sauron along with Elendil.

[01:03:39]We don't get a lot of detail as to what exactly Gil-galad was doing with Vilya.

[01:03:44]But it worked out pretty well for him and [music] he was victorious only succumbing to the horrible burns that he got in direct combat with Sauron after 3 and 1/2 millennia as king. What I'm getting at here is elves have their own personal might and the rings [music] have their own might. Vilya being greater than Narya does not make Elrond greater than Galadriel.

[01:04:08]I would argue that as a mortal-born half-elf, what he does is extremely impressive. Galadriel is sort of this perfect combination of elf. She's culturally a Noldo with Vanyar ancestry and she has a Teleri husband and Teleri subjects. Elrond though, he's more of a combination of elves and men with ancestry including great elves like Turgon and Finwë, great men like Túrin and Beren and even one Maia spirit Melian. Elrond is meant to be everything Middle-earth while as Galadriel is sort of everything elfish, if that makes sense. All right. Let's move on to the last question. I am very tired.

[01:04:53]Our final question did come in anonymously and here it is. If Aragorn is a Númenórean, why did he die at age 210 and not 300 like other Númenóreans?

[01:05:06]Um well, let's talk about this. Aragorn was born in the year 2931 of the Third Age, which is a good 3,053 years after Númenor was destroyed. He's only Númenórean in the way that I am Roman.

[01:05:25]Uh Aragorn living to be 210 years old in the Fourth Age is unusual, not for how short of a period it is, but for how long it is. There was a time when the Sea Kings of old lived longer lifespans, but that was in the past.

[01:05:42]The longest-lived Númenórean was one of the first, Elros Tar-Minyatur, the first King of Númenor. Now, while all of the Dúnedain lives were extended by the Valar, Elros was unusual, as he was the son of Eärendil and Elwing, both mortal-born half-elves.

[01:06:01]When those two sailed to the West, they were given a choice, and both chose to be immortal.

[01:06:06]Elros was given the same choice and chose to be mortal, while his twin brother Elrond chose to be immortal.

[01:06:13]Elros as a mortal half-elf lived for an unusual amount of time before voluntarily laying down his life when he was 500, and passing the throne to his eldest son, Vardamir Nólimon.

[01:06:27]Vardamir was already 381 years old at the time, and he thought that Númenor really needed some younger blood, so he abdicated the throne immediately to his own son, Tar-Amandil, who was roughly middle-aged, 250 years old at the time.

[01:06:44]Already the incredible length of Elros's line started to diminish. Elros lived to be 500, Vardamir and Amandil uh lived to be 410 and 411, respectively. And then Amandil's son, Tar-Elendil, lived to be 401, and Tar-Meneldur lived to be 399.

[01:07:05]Flash forward to the final legitimate king of Numenor, Tar-Palantir, who lived to be 220 years old. The fact that Aragorn lived to be 210 thousands of years later is sort of miraculous. This is not even accounting for the fact that these longer lifespans were not equal in Numenor. All those that I mentioned were descendants of Elros. While the Dunedain who were not descended from them did not live as long, and this is highlighted in the story in in Unfinished Tales, in the story of the Mariner's Wife, in which Tar-Aldarion marries a woman who was not of Elros's line, and she ages faster than him. Aldarion lives to be 398, while his wife, Erendis, lived to be about 214 years old. We see this differential in Dunedain lifespans even in Lord [music] of the Rings. Aragorn lives to the incredible age of 210, and his son, Eldarion, lives even slightly longer at 219, or at least 219 years old when he died. Well, Faramir, who was someone who Gandalf noted was as close to pure Numenorean as one can be, lived to be 120. Even Imrahil, who had a little bit of Sylvan Elf blood in him, lived to be 100, an age that many hobbits reach.

[01:08:22]The decline within Numenor was the gift of the Valar fading over time as Numenor became less friendly to the Valar and the Eldar. Uh though the immediate drop-off after Elros was likely just due to the half blood the half elf blood weakening, becoming a more purely mortal strain.

[01:08:42]In Gondor, lives are typically as long uh mostly due to they were typically not as long, mostly due to intermarriage uh with non-Numenorean men. While Aragorn was from Arnor, where intermarriage uh was less common. Still though, his mother Gilraen lived to be 100 years old, certainly far longer than most men.

[01:09:07]But with such a small population of Dúnedain in Arnor, marrying outside of Númenórean lines was inevitable, even if it happened less than it did in Gondor.

[01:09:15]So, to put it simply, Aragorn is only Númenórean in the way that I'm Rome and I have ancestors from Italy, which is a country that I've never been to. And Rome fell thousands of years before my birth. Even then, my ancestry is so mixed. Did this Roman strain is one of many and certainly not the dominant strain. Aragorn might have been considered to have died young if he was born in Númenor, but he was not born in Númenor and he lived much longer than men typically lived in his day.

[01:09:47]Anyway, that is our final question.

[01:09:50]Uh we're going to move on over to the quiz review and close things out. So, uh here we go. Let's go ahead and do that.

[01:10:05]Okay, so let's go through the quiz review here and 15% battery, go figure.

[01:10:11]Uh so, that's it. Doesn't matter. We'll get through this. So, this week's quizzes are all from book six of The Lord of the Rings, which is the second half of The Return of the King. And we will be doing weeks on the appendices as well. I got a whole week just on appendix A, so keep an eye out for those questions. Here, let's start with this one here. Um how does Sam locate Frodo within the tower of Cirith Ungol? Let's see how you guys did on this one. So, 47%. This is the um the majority here said that he hears some Orcs speaking about where they've kept prisoner, and that's 47% of you went for that. Little bit of a trick on my part there. He does hear Orcs speaking about where they've kept the prisoner, but he's unable to use that information in a useful way to actually find Frodo. He gets lost within the tower, so that's not really how he finds Frodo.

[01:11:01]Uh he searches randomly until he finds him. 5% of you said that. That's not true. Uh he sings and then hears Frodo singing back to him. That's the correct answer. 44% of you got uh got that, which is pretty cool that uh even though it wasn't the highest percentage, it's still pretty high. And then uh he hears the sounds of Frodo being beaten. 3% of you got that. Thankfully, he doesn't hear that. Although, Frodo is pretty beaten up by the time he finds him. Now, here's our next one.

[01:11:32]What happens after Sam could no longer carry Frodo? Uh 21% of you said he rests until he can. He was resting, uh but that that's not what happens next. Um >> [music] >> cuz he's not able to carry him again. 4% of you said Frodo starts carrying Sam, which is is just a crazy idea. That didn't happen. 63% of you, a nice majority, said Frodo crawls. That is exactly what happens. Uh Sam's back gives out, and he can no longer carry Frodo, and then Frodo just simply replies that he will crawl. 12% of you said Sam eats the remaining lembas to gain his strength. That That might have made a little bit of sense, but that's not what happened.

[01:12:12]All right. Pretty good though. You guys did great on that one. Here's the next one.

[01:12:16]For what reason does Eämir say that Galadriel is not the most beautiful woman in all of Middle-earth? Okay. So, 8% of you say that he has met his future wife, Lothíriel. That would have been a nice thing for him to say because he does marry Lothíriel, although he he hasn't met her yet as far as we know in this scene. Lothíriel is actually a sister of Imrahil. She becomes uh Eämir's wife.

[01:12:42]Uh so, only 8% of you said that one. 60% of you said he thinks Arwen is more beautiful. And that is the truth. He explains that the only reason that he can't say that Galadriel is the fairest is that he, you know, has seen Arwen and then Gimli realizes at this point that it's just a difference of opinion and he accepts this and respects this. 22% of you said he feels he cannot compare her to women that he has not laid eyes on.

[01:13:05]This also could have been something that he could have said that would have made sense and I think Gimli would have accepted that answer. However, that's not what he said and 10% of you said he's teasing Gimli, which he was teasing him a little bit but not when he said that um where he when he basically called him over to his table. Keep in mind he's the king of Rohan at this point. And he says, "Master dwarf, do you have your axe?" And he says, "No, not on me but I can get it if I need to." And then he tells him, you know, uh well, I I have to tell you that I've seen Galadriel and I can't say that she's the most beautiful woman in all of Middle-earth. And Gimli says to him, "Well, then I better get my axe." Which I think actually that was a little bit of teasing. So, they were teasing each other a little bit but that's not why he said that. He has said uh he explains it, of course.

[01:13:51]All right, here's our next one.

[01:13:53]What was Bilbo's reasoning for giving Sam the very last bit of his money? You guys did good on this one. An overwhelming majority, 64% said he has foreseen that Sam will be married soon and he considers it a wedding gift. And this is absolutely true. I think at some point um when Sam had stayed at Rivendell previously, he might have mentioned his girlfriend Rosie.

[01:14:14]And I think uh Bilbo was like, "Hey, I got something for you. Here's my wedding gift." 18% of you said he knows that both he and Frodo will sail to the west and that Sam will need it.

[01:14:24]Um he doesn't actually know at this point that he's going to be sailing to the west. That comes as a surprise to him a little bit later on. 3% of you said that he's become so senile that he thinks Sam is Frodo. I can't believe 3% of you voted for that. And 15% of you said he felt that Sam needed a reward for keeping his cousin Frodo alive, which he might have felt that but that's not his stated reason for giving him the money.

[01:14:47]Okay, here's our next one. Which of these facts about the year Shire Reckoning 1420 is not true?

[01:14:54]Okay, so 19% of you said Mallorn flowers bloom in the party field of the Shire.

[01:14:59]No, that did happen. 29% of you said pretty even spread on this. 29% of you said Lobelia Sackville-Baggins passes away. Um she does pass away a few years after that, I believe. It's not in that year. 22% of you said an unusual No, no, she does pass away in that year. So, that's the incorrect answer rather that she does pass away. She was 98, 99 years old. I had I had the book in front of me when I wrote this, but I don't have it in front of me now.

[01:15:27]22% of you said an unusual amount of blonde Hobbit children are born. No, that did happen. Here's the the correct one. It's a pretty even spread, but 30% is technically a plurality. Samwise becomes mayor. Now, Sam would become mayor, um but it wasn't that year. It was the year that Frodo resigned as deputy mayor, and then Will Whitfoot resumed his term, uh which ended in 1427 of Shire Reckoning, and that's when Sam became the mayor. So, that's the one that was slightly after. I'm sorry. I'm very tired. Okay.

[01:15:58]Uh here's our next one. For what high crime did Lobelia Sackville-Baggins get incarcerated?

[01:16:04]So, you guys did really well on this one. 14% of you said the Sheriffs found her collection of stolen spoons.

[01:16:11]Uh I think that's the only one other than the correct answer that's kind of plausible. So, I can understand why 14% of you went for that. 72% an overwhelming majority got it right. Is she attacked one of Saruman's men with an umbrella, which is pretty brave considering her advanced age. Uh 7% of you said that she attempted to wrest control of the Shire. She certainly didn't do that. And 7% of you also said nothing really, she's just a lot. And she is a lot, but that's not why they incarcerated her.

[01:16:38]And here's our final one about the Return of the King, at least for now.

[01:16:42]What interesting object is Elrond carrying when he sails to the west?

[01:16:47]So, let's see. 37% 37% of you said one of the palantiri, that is not true.

[01:16:53]8% of you said the Silmarillion.

[01:16:55]Actually, Bilbo had the Silmarillion with him and he didn't he didn't take it to the west with him. He gave it to to Sam.

[01:17:02]Um Well, actually you know, he actually he had already given it to Bilbo.

[01:17:08]Oh, boy.

[01:17:10]Yeah, insomnia you guys. I'm sorry.

[01:17:13]Bilbo had already given it to Frodo and Frodo gives it to Sam in this scene.

[01:17:18]>> [snorts] >> 48% of you got it right. A nice plurality. He was carrying a silver harp. And 7% of you said he was carrying Andúril. I'm sure you know that Aragorn still had Andúril at this point. Now, I just want to answer a question here.

[01:17:32]GeoFlora left a comment here asking do you think this could be the silver harp in Tolkien's House of Finrod emblem sketch? If you've never seen his emblem sketch of the House of Finrod, it has a harp on it and it also has a lit torch.

[01:17:46]Um I believe no. I don't believe that the this is that harp.

[01:17:52]What I do believe that that it might actually at this point that Tolkien is writing The Lord of the Rings, he might have actually intended it to be Maglor's harp. Now, we talked a lot about Maglor very recently.

[01:18:07]It might have even been last week about he did not actually wander the shores singing and playing his harp forever, you know, like some like it is believed by some elves in the Silmarillion, but that he actually cast himself into the sea after he cast the Silmarillion in and so died.

[01:18:26]And I had several sources, three of them being from Tolkien's letters, one being from the Lays of Beleriand, that all said that he died there. But there was a point where actually he was going to be wandering the shores and that Elrond would be with him. Of course, he raised Elrond. He was one of the two guys that [music] raised Elrond and Elros along with Maglor. So, it is plausible that at this point [music] Tolkien was thinking that the harp had passed from Maglor to Elrond. Perhaps he did throw himself into the sea, but not exactly then and that he gave the harp to Elrond. We really don't know.

[01:19:04]Uh but that's probably what he was thinking at that moment. Of course, as of now, what would we say? That it's probably just because his family has [music] a history of being harpists. His grandfather was Tuor who was a harpist.

[01:19:18]So, there there is that as well. He's He's only related to uh to Finrod I I believe through marriage. I'd have to look at the uh I'd have to look at the um the genealogy. Actually, you know, why not? Let's bring it up. Let's bring it up.

[01:19:37]Let's bring up the genealogy. I have it somewhere. Here we go. Okay.

[01:19:41]Because Elrond is He's related to Finrod through marriage, certainly. But I know he's not really of the house of Fil- of Finrod.

[01:19:51]Because if we if we go Finrod is one of Galadriel's brothers.

[01:19:59]And Elrond's main connection to Galadriel is that he uh has married her her daughter, Celebrían.

[01:20:09]Um however, we could say that he is related to her in the way that uh let's see.

[01:20:24]That Elwing was so cuz his mother was Elwing.

[01:20:30]And then Elwing's mother was Nimloath.

[01:20:34]And then Nimloath's This is still through marriage, actually. Nimloath's Yeah.

[01:20:39]Nimloath's father was Galathil, and that's Celeborn's brother.

[01:20:45]So, yeah, no matter how you shake it, he's not of the House of Finrod because he um he he's only related to Galadriel and therefore to Finrod uh by marriage. Twice through marriage, once in that his great-grandmother, or I'm sorry, his great-grandfather, Galathil, was Celeborn's brother, and Celeborn is, of course, married to Galadriel.

[01:21:13]Uh so, that's really far. So, basically, you know, not almost not even really all that connected. But, the main connection is that he married Celebrían, who you can say is Finrod's niece, but uh that doesn't make him of the House of Finrod.

[01:21:28]So, I would actually say it's really good question, by the way, and it's nice of you to know that that's a symbol the silver harp from the House of Finrod, but I would consider that possibly it was an allusion to either Maglor or possibly Tuor or just possibly both.

[01:21:45]Tuor's harp wasn't silver. I've talked about this a few times. It was made of wood. Um but also many elves play instruments, you know. Uh the fact that he specifically had a silver harp with him on the ship maybe think he just wanted to play it on the ride, you know. And it might be Maglor's, and he might want to get it to him somehow even though Maglor would most likely still be in Mandos.

[01:22:08]Anyway, that's the video for you guys. I can go on forever, but I'm so tired right now. I really have got to try and get some rest today.

[01:22:14]So, that being said, like the video, comment on the video, subscribe if you haven't already, and consider membership because that helps me out a lot. And as I went over earlier, membership not only lets you see all the videos at least a week early, but you're going to get some exclusive content especially related to the Beren and Lúthien play such as behind the scenes, um, outtakes, and things like that. And I have other plans for other member stuff later on. But, I'm not going to be make too much stuff that's exclusively for members.

[01:22:45]I'm going to make the majority of the content members first, which means the members get their first crack at it.

[01:22:51]But, uh, there you have it. Keep an eye out for Thursday night streams, and I'll see you guys next time.