Muslim Tried DODGING Islamic Dilemma GodLogic SLAMMED It Back

Added: 2026-05-17

[00:00:00]Yeah. No, the Yeah. The Quran is very clear that Mo that that mo that Moses is the one prophet who Allah spoke to directly. So Warah is absolutely out of line with Islam by saying that the angel that came to you and revealed this stuff to you is the same one that revealed himself to Moses. That's that's wrong.

[00:00:19]The Quran says Allah spoke to him directly. Not a not an angel.

[00:00:25]The Quran says that as a sign of the judgment day, it says, "Behold, the s the the times is near, the hour is near and the moon is split."

[00:00:34]>> And that's how that's what I says, >> right? That's that's just a reference to the event. Just meaning that it did happen.

[00:00:41]>> It's it's a it's a reference to the closeness of the of judgment day coming, not a miracle happening. And Muhammad didn't do this.

[00:00:50]>> So So okay. So I I we don't believe that any of the prophets did any miracles of their own valition. We believe that every single prophet performed miracles by the will of God. Not my will but your will as it says in the Bible. That we don't believe that it is the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam peace and blessings be upon him that's actually splitting the moon. But we believe that he is the one the prophet who was given who was actually a part of the experience of that he was there. He was calling to God and he's saying, "Here's a sign that the moon is being split." That's a sign for them, but that's not him doing.

[00:01:27]>> There are some more verses about Muhammad and and signs. Let's see. So, notice how we can I can show you verses that explicitly say that Muhammad didn't perform any signs, and you can't show me one that says he did. Chapter 2, verse 118. And they that know not say, why does God not speak to us? Why does a sign not come to us? So, so uh speak those before them. So spoke those before them as these men say. Their hearts are much alike. Yet we have made clear the signs unto a people who are sure. What does that mean? Oh >> yeah. So they so the signs are the point is that signs are there. It's just those people are rejectors because they're rejectors.

[00:02:12]>> Because it's like an a it's like an atheist. If you've ever debate debated an a atheist, they always ask you the question, where's your evidence for God?

[00:02:20]We believe the evidence is everywhere just like you believe, right? You believe God, >> but but what signs? See, I can point to stuff. I can point to creation. I can point to the miraculous things that God has done in history. What signs? They literally saying no signs came to him.

[00:02:33]Look 637. They also say, why has no sign been sent down upon us? When when it came, let me just lend this. When when it came to Jesus and the doubters, the Pharisees couldn't doubt that Jesus performed signs. What they did was is they accused him of of sorcery and and being demonpossessed. That's what they accused they they accused him of using the powers of the devil. They couldn't say that he didn't do the signs. They couldn't say, "Why is no sign coming to us?" They couldn't they couldn't say that.

[00:03:01]>> But they said exactly the same thing about the prophet because the words of the Quran Yeah. Yeah, the words of the Quran itself were signs in and of themselves.

[00:03:13]>> That's a part of the belief is that the Quran itself is a miracle.

[00:03:16]>> There it is. The Quran is the sign.

[00:03:19]Boom. So now, let me bring it to you here. This is why I wanted to get here.

[00:03:23]Okay? If I I write the book, I say I'm a prophet from God. I say that my book confirms what your what your book says and the books that came before. You say, "Well, why is where's the sign?" I SAY MY BOOK IS THE SIGN. Now what? Can you deny that I'm a prophet?

[00:03:41]>> No. But that's be that's why those who as the Quran itself says it, those who read the Quran, it guides some and it misguides others. So those who see it and are sincere recognize it as a sign from God. those who are not sincere.

[00:03:58]Just like the just like any other prophet that came, the same argument was made. Where are the signs? Where is your evidence? That's not signs. You're a magician.

[00:04:08]>> How do you verify that? So, let's say in my book that I wrote, it says the same thing. It says in my book that I wrote, it confirms what came before it. It says that this book itself is the sign from God. I'm just a warner. And then it also says that that this book is a is a sign to those with sincere hearts, but those with uncincere hearts, they won't see the signs. How would you verify what I'm saying?

[00:04:33]>> Yeah. So to to verify what you're saying, we would have to go through all of the tests. What are those tests?

[00:04:40]>> The test look, I'm giving you a clear test, Rob. I'm confirming the books that came before me. How do you verify that?

[00:04:51]But that's why I'm saying that is not the test that we use as Muslims.

[00:04:55]>> That's not what I asked. That's not what I asked. If if that's not the test that you use as Muslims, no problem. How do you verify that my book confirms your book and the books that came before?

[00:05:07]>> How do we verify that it confirms your book? So the way we look at that confirmation is that the Quran anything from outside. So any of the other books that comport with the statements of the Quran are statements that are confirmed and especially and most importantly the confirmation is that the prophet is a prophet.

[00:05:31]those let me let me just make this final point if if I could that the main the main claim that the Quran is referring to is that there will come a final messenger.

[00:05:44]There will come a final messenger. So that's the confirmation.

[00:05:47]>> So basically you're going to be using the book that came before my book to judge whether or not my book is true.

[00:05:54]>> Not to not necessarily to judge it but as a confirmation to say you see this is added evidence. So, we don't look at we don't look at evidence like and actually it's so kind of funny because you're making arguments that are very similar to how atheists make arguments against us and we're brothers in faith. So, I I I hope we don't go down that route. But that's the same kind of argument.

[00:06:14]>> We're not brothers in faith yet. We're not brothers in faith just yet. I'll ask it again.

[00:06:18]>> So, you just said that to verify if my book confirms your book and the books that came before. You said you're going to use the Quran that whatever agrees with the Quran, you'll know that that's correct. And what doesn't agree, you know that it's falsehood specifically about the message of Muhammad being a prophet >> because that's what you said. So that you that means >> no worries. So that means you'll be using the book that came before my book to judge whether or not it confirms your book or that it's true, right?

[00:06:48]>> No, no, no. Because the Quran we believe is reliable. Reliability is a big part of the of the >> Does it does it does it come before my book?

[00:07:00]>> No, of course not.

[00:07:01]>> No, I'm You You lost the plot. You lost the plot.

[00:07:04]>> What did I miss? I'm sorry.

[00:07:06]>> Remember the analogy that we gave because you said it doesn't make sense to use previous scriptures to judge the latter scripture. You said it doesn't even make sense to do that. And I showed you that. I'm going to show you that it does make sense to do that. Matter of fact, you're doing it now. Remember the analogy that I gave you that I wrote a book. I wrote a new book today in 2024.

[00:07:28]I wrote a book >> in the book. I said I am a prophet. I got a revelation from God. I said that this in my book says that the book itself is the sign and that whoever deviates in their heart who is not sincere, they won't recognize the sign.

[00:07:43]The ones who are sincere will see the signs. And it also says that it confirms the Quran and the books that came before it. How will you verify my book that it that what I'm saying about it is true? How will you verify that my new book that I wrote in 2024 is actually a confirmation of the Quran and what came before it? How will you verify that?

[00:08:08]>> Well, well, first and foremost, I would have to ask the question whether or not I even need to verify it. So whether or not I need to verify it means is this book actually coming from the source meaning God.

[00:08:23]>> How would you verify that?

[00:08:25]>> But I so I wouldn't verify it by just looking at the previous text. I would look at a multitude of things like for instance >> what is what is the one what give me one thing give me one step on how you would verify my claim in the book that it verifi that it confirms the Quran in the books that came before it how you verify that claim >> yeah okay so that particular claim that particular claim does not necessarily need to be confirmed that's I just want to make sure that that is understood but there are other testable items that we can get to before before we even get before we even get to >> respectfully you're wasting my time. I'm gonna give you one last chance or I got >> Okay. Okay. Before before you cut before you cut me off. Before you cut me off.

[00:09:10]>> There's no there is no before I cut you off. I gave you an opportunity to engage with what I was asking and you keep dodging.

[00:09:17]>> So I got I got to hold you to it.

[00:09:19]>> You've been respectful. You haven't been disrespectful. So I have no problem with you personally. It's just the tactic in how you're discussing this is it's wasting my time. Respectfully. I got to say that. So that that's why I I would prefer Can we just talk about one aspect that I really wanted to touch on? Not >> this is what I want to touch on. This is the point right here. How will you verify? If you can't answer this, just say I don't have an answer. Just say that. Okay. If if if you don't have an answer, don't waste my time, though. So I'm asking a specific question.

[00:09:51]How will you verify the claim in my book that says it confirms your book that came before it?

[00:10:02]How will you verify that? That's all I want to know.

[00:10:05]>> Sure. You would check to see if the claims of your book match the claims of the previous books. You would check to see if that is consistent.

[00:10:18]>> Is that consistent? Are those claims consistent? But is it every single claim that's being referred to? Yes or no? And that's where we have the difference.

[00:10:26]>> So here it is. So when my book makes the claim that it aligns with and confirms the books that came before, it is sensible. It makes sense. It makes logical sense that to to use the method of verification, you're going to use the previous scriptures and you're going to check to see, hey, let's see if it does confirm and line up like it says it does, right?

[00:10:56]>> Not every claim, some claims, but yes, that's why I said it. There are some Yes, there are some nuances to that argument because it's not to say that absolutely everything is confirmed.

[00:11:07]That's why I wanted to make sure.

[00:11:08]>> No worries. So, we finally got to the point where I told you I was going to show you that it does make sense to use the previous scriptures as a judge on whether to to verify the latter book.

[00:11:23]Okay? So, the latter book in this case is the Quran. It says it confirms the previous scriptures. That's what it says. Matter of fact, it goes even deeper. It goes deeper than this. It says, "If you're doubting this revelation, go and ask the people who've been reading the scripture before you." Why would it tell me to do that?

[00:11:46]>> The the problem is you're casting too wide of a net. You're you're looking at this as if that statement means every single claim that the Torah and the Bible makes that the Quran is confirming. That's too wide of a net.

[00:12:00]It's there's a there's a state there's a a principle in Islam Islamic law and Islamic theory which says which means that the ruling it applies to the general to the but not to all of the exceptions. There are exceptions to every rule and also what adds to that is the fact that there there are statements in the Quran that says that they changed the verses with their own hands. Woe to those who change their verses. So, we wouldn't say that every single claim that because obviously the whole point is that the Torah and the Bible are not reliable. They're not reliable because there has been man's hand as a part of the scripture. And that's not just me saying that. That's also your own scholars saying.

[00:12:42]>> Well, no, they don't say that. But let's go with let's go with your point. I'm going to show you, Rob, how your point crumbles beneath itself. Okay? And you'll see it if you're sensible and honest. You'll see it. Chapter 10, verse 94, the verse that I've been quoting to you this whole time. If you're in doubt, Muhammad, about that which we revealed to you, go and ask those who've been reading the scripture before you. If Muhammad is doubting the Quran, why would Allah send him to an unreliable text to clear up his doubts about the Quran that's fully reliable?

[00:13:18]>> We're going to read I just want to read it again, right? Because says if you are in doubt about this right that we have revealed to you then ask those who read the scriptures before you doesn't say to go and confirm with those and actually if you know the story um that uh prophet Muhammad he actually when he received the first verses from the Quran he was scared he was afraid he was in doubt he didn't know he thought maybe I'm going crazy and then he went to one of the uh Christian scholars and they confirmed no this is seen >> he wasn't a Christian scholar but war >> it's okay yes >> he said he was a prophet he said an the same angel that came to you is is the same angel that came to Moses and the other prophets which is a lie because according to the Quran God is the one himself who came to Moses and spoke to him directly not an angel right >> well according to Moses you said sorry I was about to make another point and then you added that question >> according to the Quran Moses is the prophet who Allah spoke to direct directly. He didn't speak to him through an angel or anything like that. Right.

[00:14:24]>> God spoke to him at the burning bush. At the burning bush. But did the angel speak to him also for the verses of the Torah? I'm not actually sure. I can't >> Yeah. No, the Yeah. The Quran is very clear that that Moses is the one prophet who Allah spoke to directly. So war is absolutely out of line with Islam by saying that the angel that came to you and revealed this stuff to you is the same one that revealed himself to Moses.

[00:14:51]That's that's wrong. The Quran says Allah spoke to him directly. Not a not an angel. So >> Okay. Well, so we're I know these are, you know, passages that we could probably sift through and I'll have a different opinion. You'll have a different opinion. But I think that there's something really important that really really needs to be talked about just about the Bible. The Bible and your belief. If you would allow me to make this one argument.

[00:15:14]>> No. Is that okay?

[00:15:14]>> We have We haven't left this. What do you mean?

[00:15:18]>> Well, because it's about belief and belief >> deals with Yeah.

[00:15:22]>> No. No. This This is We're We're on this. We haven't finished this. We haven't finished this.

[00:15:29]But the reason I The reason is because every single one of these verses the reason is because every single one of these verses they can be if you wanted to read them in absence of the other verses that clarify them because we believe the Quran.

[00:15:43]>> I'm using the entire Quran as a whole.

[00:15:46]>> Whole Quran as a whole. Whole Quran as a whole man.

[00:15:48]>> Yeah. Yeah. Because we don't we don't take verses in isolation and don't look at all the other verses.

[00:15:54]>> I'm granting you all the Quran. Please help me explain this. I read the Quran.

[00:15:59]I've read this in this context. I don't use the Quran out of context. I I wouldn't I would never approach a text unfairly like other Muslims do to the Bible. I would never do that. I treat the Quran as honestly as I can and I use the context and the surrounding theme on a particular topic. Right now >> I do I do the same for the Bible.

[00:16:17]>> All right. Beautiful. So let's so let's finish this. You said that the the previous scriptures are unreliable.

[00:16:25]Now, you're sensible.

[00:16:28]>> I and I hope you're honest with this.

[00:16:29]And I'm not just saying this. In our conversation, you've shown to be sensible. Okay? So, let's let's let's continue. Why in the world would Allah send Muhammad if he's doubting the Quran which is fully reliable?

[00:16:44]Why would he send him to previous scriptures that are unreliable?

[00:16:50]>> He's not sending him to a scripture.

[00:16:52]He's sending them to people who have scholarship. Those people who read the scriptures.

[00:16:57]>> Why? Why? Why? Why to them? Why?

[00:17:00]>> Because they have because they have the word of God at that time. What was the most um the the most >> they have they have the scriptures.

[00:17:13]>> They have the scriptures. Yes. Even though they're not fully 100% reliable, but they have some of God's words. And that means they can recognize God's signature when they see it. So this was one of >> here's the point again. If they these scriptures are unreliable, >> the Quran is fully reliable.

[00:17:36]Why in Allah's paradise is he sending Muhammad if he's doubting the fully reliable scripture to a text that is not fully reliable? Why why would he do that when he already has the fully reliable book if he's doubting the fully reliable book?

[00:17:58]So in this example right just when he went to to get confirmation why did he send him to him because he was somebody known as a reliable person or somebody who was a a god-fearing person somebody Allah never told him to go to war that that's >> no but his his wife his wife knew him and so they they went to get that confirmation >> specifically about this text that it has nothing to do with Laura War's dead at this point. Okay. He's long gone.

[00:18:30]>> When this verse was revealed.

[00:18:32]>> Yeah. When this when after Muhammad's prophethood after he became a prophet, Wara died.

[00:18:38]>> Wara died shortly after Muhammad.

[00:18:39]>> He died early on.

[00:18:41]>> Yeah. So, >> do you know when this verse was revealed?

[00:18:45]>> Not exactly. I don't I don't know exactly. I just know I know that because dead.

[00:18:50]>> Yeah. But I mean the point is that these Why does God Okay, so I'll just answer the question directly. Why would God send the prophet with a reliable text to go and check another individual who is you know learned about the scripture because it says who read the scripture.

[00:19:04]People who read back then were very far few and far in between. So it's only those who are really scholars. Why would he send them to go back and to check it?

[00:19:13]Because if they're honest and sincere, they would look at this as the signature of God and say, "Man, you are a messenger of God." Because God sent >> because because of the experience the the experience I you know the angel came to me the words the verses are still consistent with God's >> oneness monotheistic religion >> what what are they using to verify it >> these are monotheistic religions so they're looking at the the totality of the the the message so God is God's oneness God's oneness it's the same message it's not contradictory from that perspective >> walk with me slowly Muhammad goes to these people who know the scripture.

[00:19:55]How will they reassure Muhammad that yes, you're you're a prophet from God.

[00:20:02]What you're receiving is from God. How are they verifying that?

[00:20:07]>> How are they verifying that? Through the evidence. Through the evidence of the message itself. The message itself.

[00:20:14]>> Rob certainly fine. Rob, >> does that not make sense, >> Rob? No, it doesn't. I'll I'll let's let's quote the verse again.

[00:20:23]>> If you're in doubt about what we've revealed to you, oh Muhammad, go ask those who read the scripture before you.

[00:20:32]>> Y >> why why go to people who've been reading text before him? How will that help them? How does that verify?

[00:20:39]>> Because they are all God's from God.

[00:20:43]They're all they all come from God.

[00:20:45]That's >> what's all from God. What is all from God? all of the books. That's why we as Muslims believe in the in all of the >> So they're going to be using So they're going to be using the books to verify Muhammad is a prophet.

[00:20:59]>> They're using their own text. YES. THAT WHICH IS correct and accurate. Yes. To verify. Of course, because like I said, all not all of not every single verse in the Bible in the Torah is inaccurate and and not Okay. So here it is again.

[00:21:18]How will Muhammad, if he's going to their books, if they're using their books to verify whether Muhammad's a prophet or not, that means the Quran is saying that these books are reliable, fully reliable for them to be able to judge and reassure that yes, Muhammad, you're a prophet from God. What you're receiving matches what we have. Right?

[00:21:40]>> If that were the case, then I wouldn't say in other verses that they changed the text. And woe to them who changed the text.

[00:21:47]>> One, okay, one, it doesn't it doesn't say that they that they did this. But let me even grant it to you. If it if the Quran is saying this that they changed their text, then you have a contradiction. You have one place where Muhammad is being sent to a scripture that's fully reliable for them to judge whether he's a prophet or not. And two, in another place, these same scriptures are unreliable. You have a contradiction in your Quran.

[00:22:15]>> No.

[00:22:16]>> Can you read Can you read Bakar um verse uh verse 78?

[00:22:20]>> 279 279. Wo to those who write the book with their own hands claiming it's from God seeking a small price, right? Trying to get a small gain.

[00:22:28]>> No, the first 278 and then 279 because 278 gives the >> don't know the book. Those who don't know the book, >> right? It's those who are not those who read the scripture. Those who take the scripture and they change it are those people who are either >> changing something they don't know.

[00:22:45]>> Why would they change something they don't know? They are those >> no and amongst them are the illiterate who know nothing about the scripture.

[00:22:53]They don't know the scripture who know nothing >> nothing about the scripture except lies.

[00:22:59]>> So how are they changing what they don't know?

[00:23:02]>> How are they? No, they know nothing about it except lies. So they added those lies into it. They put lies in.

[00:23:08]How can they add to they're illiterate?

[00:23:10]It says they don't know the scripture.

[00:23:12]ARE YOU NOT DO YOU NOT KNOW YOUR OWN TEXT?

[00:23:14]>> YES. It says the so woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands and then say and then say this is from Allah.

[00:23:24]>> Which ones are they? You just read 78.

[00:23:27]Which ones are they?

[00:23:28]>> There are those who are God is basically looking at them with disdain. These are people who don't know my book.

[00:23:35]>> Rob, I'm going to give you one last chance. according to that's how we that's how we read it.

[00:23:39]>> Who are they?

[00:23:41]>> Those who read who don't read who are either illiterate or those who don't understand the text. There are different ways to read this.

[00:23:51]>> Or it doesn't say or. It says the illiterate. They're illiterate. It doesn't say or. It just says flat out they're illiterate. They don't know the scripture. That's literally >> but the word has but the word umuna has it can mean somebody who doesn't have knowledge it can mean someone who doesn't and actually you actually use that argument against against the prophet but anyways >> according to the according to 78 do they know the scripture >> they have only as it says they have knowledge of lies and distortions lies Rob I'm going to ask it again do Do they know the scripture?

[00:24:33]>> Do they know the scripture? In what sense?