What Doctors Don't Tell You About Your Thyroid | Dr. Amie Hornaman

Added: 2026-05-15

[00:00:00]You are tuned in to the Dr. Tina Show with Dr. Tina Moore. For more, visit drtina.com.

[00:00:07]Dr. Amy Hornman, thank you so much for coming on the Dr. [music] Tina Show.

[00:00:10]Welcome. And I'm so excited to have you here finally.

[00:00:13]>> Thank you, Tina. You know, I love you and your audience [music] will will definitely give them what they need today.

[00:00:19]>> Well, we are we are friends in the real world [music] and so this is a real treat that we I get to have you on and we get to talk about your new book, Thyroid Fix. Uh it's been a long time coming. I' I I've been friends with you while you've been writing it and I'm so excited and proud of you and I'm and congratulations.

[00:00:35]>> Thank you. Thank you. You know, it's it's decades in the making. I mean, you know, we're waiting on a book from you, too. But it's it's all of that information that you have that you talk to people about, but you're like, I got to put it all in one place because I can't help every single person individually, but we want to help everybody that we possibly can, and this book will do that.

[00:00:56]>> I love it. and I'm such a huge fan of your work and of just thyroid health in general. Um, if you were to ask any of my colleagues in Portland back when I was starting practice, they would sort of in a nasty way, several people have said like, "Dr. Tina just gives everybody thyroid." And I'm like, "Yes, I do." [laughter] >> You're the first person I met when I, you know, it's like, "Why don't you get You're like, "Why are we not starting there? Why are we not starting with the thyroid?" Because it's the most obvious.

[00:01:23]So, um, but first I want you to share a little bit about you cuz I started reading your book and I realized there was a backstory there that I did not know and I I love it. So, I was hoping you would share with your audience how you got here.

[00:01:34]>> Absolutely. So, like many people listening or like many people that have gone through any kind of health situation, I was in the conventional medicine system getting disappointed.

[00:01:46]So, and you know the scary thing is it's not even different today. So, I'm backing up about 25, 30 years ago, and I was in my 20s. I was competing. I was doing figure competitions, which is kind of like bodybuilding, but more feminine.

[00:02:02]I was doing fitness modeling. I was doing powerlifting. Like, I was doing all the things. So, I was eating clean, regimented, structured, disciplined, going to the gym a couple times a day.

[00:02:12]Sometimes, you know, you go in the morning to do cardio, you go in the evening to lift and do more cardio. I mean, I had the whole plan laid out and I had done plenty of shows before, so I knew how my body was was going to respond or was supposed to respond. And, you know, I had a coach, too. So, checking in with the coach, sending before and after pick, sending my weekly weigh-in check-ins.

[00:02:35]This one show that I I'm I'm getting ready for was a national level show, and every time I stepped on the scale, the scale kept going up. And I don't mean like a little bit. I'm talking five pounds, then 10 pounds, then 15 pounds.

[00:02:49]Once it hit 25 extra pounds, I just stopped getting on it because I'm like, I don't even I don't need more information here. There is something going on with my body. There's something wrong and I just need an answer. Now, through that time of the scale going up, I was also tired. I was also losing my hair. But you know, as as a woman and especially as a woman who takes care of herself, I was most concerned about my clothes getting tighter and that scale going up while I'm doing all the things.

[00:03:18]And I hear this to this day from my patients. I'm doing all the things. I'm doing all the things right. Why is this happening? Well, I thought the same thing. So, I went to my doctor because that's where we all start. And I said, you know, here's what's going on. I handed him my food journal. I handed I wanted him to see exactly how I was eating. Chicken, broccoli, asparagus. I counted every calorie, every macro.

[00:03:43]And he looked at that and he ran some tests. Says, "You're normal. Everything is fine." Now, I don't know what tests he actually ran. I can guess and I talk about that in the book. It was probably just TSH, maybe a free T4. Wasn't the full picture. But at the time, I didn't know that. I didn't know what to ask for. I didn't have books like we have now. We didn't have podcasts. We barely had the internet. So, I kept going. I I I said, "Thank you. I don't feel normal.

[00:04:12]I don't feel fine. I'm going to go for a second opinion." That second opinion turned into a third, fourth, fifth, and sixth opinion. Every single doctor told me I was normal, fine. One of them told me to eat less and exercise more. Like, dude, that's just impossible to do.

[00:04:29]Like, that's impossible.

[00:04:31]So, I mean, I'm I'm shortening the story, but I fell into a very deep depression. I was frustrated. I was depressed. I was hiding my body. I was I was I mean, really, I had lost a piece of my identity because I was known at the gym as the fitness girl. You know, people would come to me for advice. And now they're looking at me as my body's expanding and basically whispering behind my back like, "Oo, she can't stay on her diet. She's eating too many donuts." And that wasn't it. I I was still doing all the things. So it literally took to the seventh doctor.

[00:05:06]The seventh doctor actually touches my throat and says swallow. First doctor to lay hands on me. And she says, you know, I'm feeling a nodule on your thyroid and we have some tests over here that indicate you have Hashimoto's.

[00:05:20]Here's a pill. So she gives me this pill. It's synthroidid levothyroxine T4.

[00:05:27]And you know, at the time, again, I was excited. I was like, I got a name for now. What's going on with me? And I have a pill that's gonna fix me. So, I left her office totally pumped up thinking finally my life is going to change. I took that pill for five months and nothing changed. Nothing. I didn't lose a single freaking pound. Nothing changed. So, I did go back to Dr. Google, you know, I powered up my my dialup gateway computer [laughter] and uh and I start researching and I see, oh my gosh, what she gave me is T4.

[00:06:04]That's the inactive thyroid hormone.

[00:06:07]>> There's there's this active thyroid hormone called T3. And there's all these other thyroid treatments like NDT, and then you can add liothyine, which is T3.

[00:06:17]Oh my gosh, there's there's all this other stuff that we can do. And I was so excited and I brought her this information. I'm like I'm like, I'm taking the inactive thyroid hormone.

[00:06:26]Here's the active thyroid hormone. Can't we do that? And she says, no, that's not standard of care. I don't do that. And I said, um, well, thank you. I'm going to find someone who does. That's ultimately what led me into functional medicine. I found my mentor, the man who saved my life, who sat with me for 90 minutes, did all the testing. I mean, you know, like that how we test right now. It was like a book. It was like a book of tests, right? And he's going through it all, explaining to me how my body works and how my thyroid is working and how I don't convert T4 to T3 properly.

[00:07:04]And he really gave me my life back. And so that's what led me to change careers.

[00:07:09]I mean, I was already in the health and fitness space, but I went deeper. I I went and got my masters in clinical nutrition. I got my doctorate in clinical nutrition. I trained in functional medicine because I never like even at a young age, I had that thought in my head like I never want another woman to have to go through what I just went through. And so, I knew then I wanted to build a practice where we could help people in as many states as possible. So, now we can prescribe in all 50 states, which I'm super proud of.

[00:07:38]So, I'm super happy about because I want to be able to reach every single person that needs it.

[00:07:42]>> Well, it's so crazy that it has been this way for so long because I have been treating that way for decades and my mentor taught me that back in the '9s.

[00:07:54]He taught me, I mean, in the 90s, I remember him telling me how the TSH lab test was like, don't don't don't allow anybody ever to say your thyroid is normal based on just that marker, which is what most doctors run. They just run a TSH. If you're lucky, you get a free T4. And he taught me everything about thyroid. And then I really geeked out on it because I had a very similar story except mine did not present as well I should I take that back. I did have some periods where I was gaining a lot of weight but I wasn't nearly as active or hyperfocused on it. You know you were you were literally doing it. I was like you know in college and I my weight has always been something that's been really easy for me to keep in check >> so long as I put some effort in. You know it doesn't have to be a ton. and I have to be cognizant of what I'm eating and and I mean I I guess more way more than the average person, but um that I focus on that. But I I'd always had such an easy time just getting the weight off. And I blew up in college. I was taking um I had been diagnosed as manic depressive and I was being given high doses of lithium or mania and I would swing from a size four up to a size 10 down to a size four up to a size 10 and it was somewhat seasonal and every single time I'd get really really skinny and really really happy and I was having the best time and it was always spring so I know there's some circadian rhythm to this and when you live in a state like Oregon or I guess any state really that has seasons like distinct seasons. I really find that for myself and for my thousands of patients that those seasons impact their ne the dose needed to keep them happy and healthy.

[00:09:37]It changes from season to season.

[00:09:39]>> And so the lithium on top of it makes you hypothyroid.

[00:09:44]>> Yeah.

[00:09:44]>> And my boyfriend left me. He cheated on me with my best friend. [clears throat] And I was so depressed because every time I would have that like really skinny quote unquote mania, I knew what was coming after it was going to be the fall. I mean, I was just going to crash out and I was going to gain weight and everything was going to be awful. And this just kept happening. And so I had bins of clothes in my closet that were four to 10, you know, all the way from size four to size 10. And finally somewhere in nature school, I kid you not, Amy, I was all the way like decades later, I'm in naturopathic school. My mentor who I worked with didn't even catch it. Nobody caught it and I end up in this is after I have a baby. I go through severe hypothyroidism with the baby. Um I mean that was all just a it was like 10 years of severe hypothyroidism at this point after having my daughter. I'm in naturopathic medical school. I'm in clinic. I'm a secondary in clinic and in comes this beautiful student. She's so gorgeous.

[00:10:42]She should have been a model. Seriously, she was so gorgeous. She was so lean.

[00:10:46]She was so healthy and she had this huge goiter. And I figured out that she had Hashimoto's. And my mind was blown because she did not fit the phenotype of what somebody with hypothyroidism looks like. And it had never occurred to me that it could present potentially as like this rail thin. She's like, I can't keep weight on. You know, she's swinging between hyper and hypo. And I was like, oh my god, I think this is what I've been going through for decades at this point. And so I didn't even test. I literally called up my friend Alex Vasquez. I don't know if you know who he is. He's a brilliant functional medicine doctor. And I was like I was out with him one night and I was like, "Dude, I think I have Hashimoto's." And he goes, "Here." And he hands me cytol. He hands me T3 only. It's like a 25 microgram dose.

[00:11:35]>> A little too high to start on, but okay.

[00:11:37]>> Right. And I took it. He goes, "Just put it under your tongue." I put it under my tongue and about 30 minutes later my eyes are like this big. I am so happy.

[00:11:47]Oh, I should add in there. Uh, which I think is the most important part. I had crippling depression like >> take you out. No anti-depressants would touch it. 15 years on antid-depressants.

[00:12:00]Severe depression and anxiety that could not be touched since I was like 16. All of a sudden, I looked at him and he goes, "Are you okay?" And I'm like, "I feel like my heart is racing." so fast.

[00:12:09]I feel like I just drank a pot of coffee. And he goes, "Yeah, but how do you feel?" And I was like, "I feel normal." I remember saying those words.

[00:12:16]I was like, "I feel normal."

[00:12:17]>> Wow.

[00:12:18]>> And that was it. And then, of course, I run my labs. My antibodies are way high.

[00:12:23]Boom, boom, boom. And I'm just like, and then from that point on, I vowed like, so I did all muscularkeeletal work, as you know, um, with a like huge focus on regenerative injection therapies, but everybody got screened for thyroid.

[00:12:37]Everybody got thyroid if they needed it.

[00:12:40]Everybody got thyroid even if they were subclinical and their labs didn't show it but the symptoms did because a lot of it shows up as muscularkeeletal pain in different ways. And I was like every I was like Oprah like everybody gets thyroid. [laughter] >> Everybody gets thyroid.

[00:12:54]>> It would like rule out it would it was diagnostic right as well as therapeutic.

[00:12:58]If it didn't do anything which was rare I would remove it. But if it if it it would change migraines it would change frozen shoulder. would change all kinds of really terrible, debilitating migraines like that nobody could touch.

[00:13:09]I'm like, I got some thyroid. [laughter] >> Exactly. Well, to your point, how many people are given lithium, an anti-depressant, um or over on the pain side, like ibuprofen, pain pills, predinazone for inflammation, for frozen shoulder. I mean, there's all these band-aids when really, if you just treat the thyroid and give thyroid, oh my gosh, the person lights up and it has that trickle down effect for the rest of the body where symptoms start to eradicate. I mean, you're eliminating symptoms just by treating the thyroid.

[00:13:44]>> It's a lifecher. And really, like you said, treating the T3, making sure cuz a lot of these folks come in to my clinic and I would look at them. I could just look at them and I'm like, "You're hypothyroid." Um, they're like, "No, I'm on T4." I'm like, "I don't I don't care.

[00:14:00]You're that's making it worse. You're you're hypothyroid." I could see it under ultrasound, Amy. I would actually put my ultrasound probe down and I would get this really foggy picture underneath and it was very difficult to really see the layers of the tissues that you should be able to see clearly. And I started asking all of my mentors in the space like these old guys that have been doing ultrasound guided injections forever. And I'm like are you guys seeing hypothyroidism on on ultrasound?

[00:14:28]And they were like what are you talking about? I'm like it's mixade edema. It's this protenacious edema >> and it's it's under the probe. I can see it. And they're like, "What are you talking about?" And so then I started sending my one buddy pictures. I'm like, "This is hypothyroid. This is after I treated it. This is h like the ultrasound pictures." And so >> anyway, that's kind of mine. Mine was sort of a backwards inside out way of because I would recognize it in the tissues, which to this day I don't think gets enough respect. I mean, you rip a tendon before you're menopausal, I should say, because if you rip a tendon when you're menopausal, I'm going to blame estrogen, too. But you rip a tendon. I'm like, thyroid.

[00:15:07]>> Yeah.

[00:15:07]>> You have chronic thoracic pain, thyroid.

[00:15:09]You have migraines, thyroid.

[00:15:12]>> These are It's worth investigating with somebody who knows what they're doing, but no one knows. I shouldn't say that.

[00:15:16]Not very many people know what they're doing the way that you do. I I love talking to somebody that has the same mind as I do because just like you said, like we can treat a variety of conditions with thyroid medication, with proper thyroid medication, not T4 only.

[00:15:32]Let me say that. But, you know, what you just said, your story is actually so impactful for anyone listening because now they're sitting back going, "Oh my god, I do have my oh my god, I do have I did, you know, tear my shoulder. I have frozen shoulder. I got diagnosed with that. I got put on pain medicine. I I got prescribed highdosese ibuprofen. And so, yeah, what you're sharing right now is is very impactful because it goes beyond the weight, the hair loss, the fatigue that we all think of when we're talking about thyroid. And those are the top three symptoms. I mean, I talk about those in the book, but then I go into those wild and wacky symptoms that you wouldn't necessarily pair up with thyroid like migraines and frozen shoulder that absolutely can be attributed to low thyroid function.

[00:16:19]>> Yep. So many things too that well like the depression and the manic depression that I was diagnosed with. I think I was just going hyper hypo hyper hypo. I wasn't manic depressive. I was just having a thyroid storm which was making me really skinny and really buggy. I, you know, buggy eyed and then I was like dumping then all that thyroid tissue got destroyed. Now I'm just hypo all the time because right >> I I destroyed all the tissue, [laughter] >> right?

[00:16:42]>> Eventually you just bottom out. But >> you did. But the nice thing is that we can replace it. So even if you destroyed your own thyroid, that's cool. Like we just replace it with a, you know, you're on the right you're you're on the right blend for you and we just replace those hormones. But it's getting that diagnosis and having someone like you or I to look at the labs and go, "Yeah, this is what we're seeing." That's that's the first part. That's the first hurdle that people have.

[00:17:09]>> Well, my biggest beef, and I know this is yours, too. You've done whole episodes on your podcast about it, is first of all, [clears throat] we're in the dark ages. Like the TSH that they consider normal is anywhere between 0.5 and five, basically. And that's just crazy town. Like I consider one normal.

[00:17:26]I'm sure you know you might have a little bit variable, but generally speaking, somewhere around one, I think we can all agree. But then on top of it, thyroid has been so vilified as a hormone. Like it's like it's going to kill people if they take it. And I I do not understand that. You give someone too much thyroid, they get a little tacocartic. Their heart starts racing.

[00:17:45]They get a little bit of a heartbeat in their ears when they lay down at night.

[00:17:48]I'm like, back off the dose. We're not we're not giving anybody osteoporosis and a heart attack as we on-ramp them and titrate them up to an appropriate dose. Like I don't what is with the fear? Why is this been so vilified?

[00:18:02]>> You know, I think it all goes back to conventional medicine training. You know, I I talked to a variety of different just conventional docs. I even talked to my sister who ironically refused to be quoted for the book. She is, you know, top level geriatrician, Dr. osteopath and I wanted to really get her her quote her words on what they learned in med school and she wouldn't do it. She wanted to go on record of actually stating how very little training they get in med school. I mean it basically is you test TSH if TSH is above that 4.5 cutoff on the lab value range you give T4 you recheck them in six months that's it. I mean, they are literally trained in five minutes about the master gland that runs your entire body.

[00:18:52]>> Yep. It's crazy.

[00:18:54]>> Yeah.

[00:18:54]>> I I think of hypothyroidism as the way I describe it to my patients is that you're slogging through molasses.

[00:19:04]>> Like everything feels so much harder because you're just slogging through molasses. And metabolically your engines turned way down, right? I had a actually a really neat doctor say one time he's like it's like you have an eight-cylinder engine but only four of them are running or working >> right >> and you're just you're just you just don't know it like that's the worst part you don't know it you're for me I one of my cardinal symptoms is when something that I say all the time like with patients I would say have the same script for you know as far as like describing certain things I would have a very you know I had not a not like a generic script But like I knew how to describe something very quickly and efficiently and you get very good with your language, right? And >> I couldn't get the words out and it's like that little uh hourglass on your computer or on the Mac. It's like a dial. It's like a wheel, the wheel of death.

[00:19:58]>> That's what [laughter] that's what your brain feels like when your thyroid's low. You're just like, I cannot get the words. They're not coming to my tongue to come out of my mouth. I they're in there. I can't think of them. I'm like, you know that thing. And then the wheel of death. And everybody thinks that's that's just typical pmenopause and menopause. But I'm like, no, that's your thyroid bottoming out in pmenopause and menopause.

[00:20:20]>> Exactly. I always say hypo low and slow.

[00:20:23]So if you think of everything slowed down from your metabolism, your digestion, your brain function, your mood, your body temperature is lower, your heart rate is lower. Like everything is low and slow. Just like you said, you feel literally like you're going through molasses. your metabolism is dragging behind you. You have none.

[00:20:41]That's why you're putting on weight or you're not losing weight no matter what you do. And and when you think of it that way, that hypo low and slow, that allows people to kind of tune into all of their symptoms instead of writing them off. And to your point, like right now, thankfully, we do have a little bit more of a spotlight on pmenopause and menopause, but it's almost too much.

[00:21:05]Like we have 5,000 menopause books out.

[00:21:07]We have 20,000 pmenopause books out and I'm over here going, "What about the master gland that actually determines whether or not that VHRT that you're taking is going to work or not?" So, yeah, we can talk pmenopause, menopause all day long. We talk hormones. I love hormones. But if you're not addressing the master gland, then again, the hormones actually become a band-aid solution. Just like the anti-depressant and the statin and the sleeping pill and the blood pressure medication, it's no different. You have to treat the master gland first.

[00:21:38]>> Yep. 100%. And if you don't, you'll bonk. You'll And I don't have a People ask me, "What does that mean?" I'm like, "You'll know it when it happens." You're like, "Everything's great." And then about 90 days in, you hit the wall >> and nothing's working and everything's going haywire. And you just can't put um you just can't put the hormones on top of a system that is metabolically slogging along. It doesn't go well. Yes.

[00:22:06]>> It just it gets mucky more mucky, right?

[00:22:08]You just kind of muck up the pipes a little bit more of the engine. It's it's really and it's really miraculous, too, when people get their thyroids treated appropriately. It takes a minute. You know, you got to play with with the doses and you This is something where the patient and the doctor, I think, really need to be working together. This unfortunately, I mean, maybe fortunately, I I actually wish thyroid was available over the counter to be honest with you. I think it's that benign and that necessary. I think that we have a whole generation of depressed kids who could really probably benefit from thyroid. I think definitely if we were to give thyroid medication to every single person in an old folks home >> in some kind of assisted living, I think we'd see I I think that that low-key dementia that we see setting in in the elderly is very much a thyroid issue.

[00:22:52]Um, but it's, you know, getting that dose right takes the skill of the practitioner and the willingness and patience of the patient to get it right.

[00:23:01]But man, when you do and it changes every season and it changes through the years and it's, you know, like you really helped me. I was just on my nature throid like I'd always been forever and I had done, you know, I go on and off the T3, but I had didn't have any T3 on board. I saw you somewhere talking on I think it was on your podcast or it was on one of your reels and you said you were really doubling down on something I definitely already know about how T4 can you know go to reverse T3 which I want you to talk about this next. I just want to lead in with this little story because you really you really helped me and I don't think you know this. Um >> the T4 definitely can go to reverse T3 if you're stressed out of your mind like [laughter] I have been. and I just ditched the the Naturthoid completely and just went straight to T3. I've never been on only T3 as a treatment therapy.

[00:23:55]And I've been upping the dose and upping the dose and I feel so much better on it. Um, in so many ways, my pain is down. My brain is clearer. I I still have a ways to go to figure things out.

[00:24:04]But all that to say, it was something I knew, but you're behind the ball when your thyroid isn't working. So, your brain isn't optimized. So, I wasn't even seeing the obvious in front of me as you you can't doctor yourself. Of course, >> that's the thing. Yeah, you can't you can't think for yourself. You can't.

[00:24:21]>> No, but you you your work really helped me. I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] duh, Tina.

[00:24:26]Just take drop the T4 completely. Get the nature. Throw it out." Because that's for the people listening, it's a blend. It's a more natural blend of occurring blend, I should say, of T4, T3, and even T2. And anyway, I got that T3 on board at a higher dose. And all because Dr. Amy was you were you were you were impassioned on one of your reels I think and you were [laughter] you were fired up because somebody had pissed you off and you were like you guys need to understand this.

[00:24:52]>> Sounds about right. Yeah, that's about right. Well, you know, I mean right now we have so many dude influencers out there talking about hypothyroidism who've never had hypothyroidism. So that's usually what fires me up. I'm like just stop. Just stop telling women that they don't need thyroid medication and all they have to do is take your master class to heal their thyroid naturally. I know that pisses you off too, Tina. So that's why I'm bringing up like just heal your thyroid naturally.

[00:25:20]It's like sometimes you just need the damn medication. So yeah, and and it's very nuanced to your point. It's very very nuanced to each person in each season of life. So where naturid blend of T4 and T3 used to work for you I mean that falls in for the listener that falls into the NDT category. So armor thyroid, NP thyroid, nature throid that's T4 and T3. Great combination if your body can convert T4 to T3. If it can't, sometimes we have to throw in some T3 and change that ratio. Sometimes we need to go T3 only like you did, Tina. So, it it really is a nuanced art to dial it in, but once it is, it's like, go ahead and ask that woman if she'll give up her thyroid medication once she's actually feeling amazing. Her brain is working, she's not gaining weight, looking sideways on a brownie and doesn't want to take a nap at 2 p.m.

[00:26:15]She's not going to take your master class to heal her thyroid naturally.

[00:26:18]You're going to have to pry that thyroid medication out of her dead cold hands.

[00:26:22]But the people that that think like, "Oh, I'm just going to I want to give up my thyroid. Can I go off of this? this isn't even working. Those are probably the people on T4 only or they're just not on the right combination for them.

[00:26:35]>> It's criminal when I see doctors take patients off their thyroid. I see this most often and I hate to say it because I am a licensed chiropractor as well, but um I'm a naturopathic physician first and foremost and I have a license to prescribe and I ain't afraid to use it.

[00:26:51]But my [laughter] chiropra my chiropractor colleagues back when I was seeing just a ton of patients when I had my brick and mortar so often people would come back and say I I'd look at them and I'm like dude you're so hypothyroid. What happened? Did Oh, I went off my meds. Why?

[00:27:07]>> Well, Dr. So and so said I should take the supplement instead. I'm like let me guess. He sold you the supplement off his shelf after he muscle tested you and you told you you didn't need your thyroid. And here you are and all your muscularkeeletal pains back. Your eyes are puffy. It's so I it's so obvious when someone's hypothyroid that I've taught my assistant how to identify it.

[00:27:26]She would go in and when she seated a new patient, she'd bring them in, she'd se them, she would just do a quick few minute questions and then come back, report a findings to me, and then I would go in and obviously do the full intake and the history and the physical exam. And she would come back and she's like, "They're hypothyroid. They're I mean, she just knew how to see it. My daughter knows how to see it. I've taught my husband how to see it now." So it's like The Six Sense, that movie where he's like, "I see dead people."

[00:27:50]I'm like, I see [laughter] hypothyroidism.

[00:27:53]>> And I [snorts] moved I I moved to Arizona because I see a lot less of it here. And I was like, I need to move because their brains are not working when they're hypothyroid. Your brain is not optimized. So I I really I joke I blame the COVID situation, the whole that whole ridiculousness that went down.

[00:28:10]>> I blame it on hypothyroidism across the board. And I blame it on I'm like these people are allowed to make decisions and vote and they're like I I hate to say that but like their cognition is not they they've got eight cylinders and they're running on four. It's >> Yeah.

[00:28:24]>> And you're so right. It's it's so often or their MD would scare the Jesus out of them and say, "Well, you're going to have a heart attack if you stay on that cuz you're over 65." And I would get notices from pharmacists saying, "Your patient's over 65. What are you doing prescribing them naturid?" And I'm like, "What?" Like I'm the one managing them.

[00:28:41]We're fine.

[00:28:43]>> Wow. Wow. And well, and to your point, too, that brings up the immune system.

[00:28:47]So, we know that if your thyroid isn't functioning well, then your immune system isn't even functioning at a top level. So, why did we see, you know, so many people being taken out by COVID when, you know, it's just a virus. It's just a vi man-made, but you know, that's a whole other discussion. But, you know what? I if your thyroid isn't functioning well, even your ability to surveillance cancer cells, like your body's ability to seek out and destroy the cancer cells that we all have in our body, FYI, we all have them, but your immune system is constantly destroying them. You know, there are, again, it's it's it's kind of like what is it bait?

[00:29:28]Like clickbait, but there are influencers out there that are like, you know, cynthroidid causes cancer. I'm like, "All right, wait, time out. I don't like synthroidid as a monotherapy, but I'm not going to say that it causes cancer." When you actually break that down and explain it, it's not the drug that's causing the cancer. It's the fact that these poor people on T4 only with elevated reverse T3 and nonoptimized thyroids don't have the immune system working enough to destroy cancer cells.

[00:29:57]So, that's why we're seeing more and more when the thyroid isn't functioning properly.

[00:30:01]>> Right? This is it's not that you're treating >> you're not preventing treating or curing anything. It's >> because in my brain and the way that I do medicine, it's never one thing. We have to optimize every system for all the other systems to work and appropriately. And so this is just a big lever we can pull. It's one of the bigger ones, I would say, the thyroid.

[00:30:26]And we we got to pull all of them. But because if you're malnourished, you're, you know, your immune system's going to be off, but your thyroid's going to be off, too. You can't starve your thyroid.

[00:30:35]You can't overfeed your thyroid. There's just a lot going on here. But that that is such a powerful lever to pull and to pull it from people. I mean, if you look at the DSM5, I don't I should I should back up. The DSM4, I know this for sure. I don't know what the DSM5 says. I just know it's come out. the DSM4 when you apply an anti-depressant to a patient and it doesn't work like usually SSRI will be like first line you may give them an MAO inhibitor you apply those antid-depressants and and they'll you know they'll stack them sometimes and it doesn't work it actually says to consider cytol and make sure that you address the T3 because the people who have no reaction or very little improvement with antid antid-depressants very often I have found clinically that they are very hypothyroid and even if they don't look it and I give them a little bit of thyroid and either what they're taking works better or we've been able to get them off of those medications because we were addressing the real underlying issue when people talk about root cause I'm like dude this is about as root as it gets like fix the thyroid >> yeah [laughter] functional psychiatry will use T3 even for extreme ca like manic depress manic depressive and schizophrenia, they will use T3 because of the T3 receptor sites on the brain.

[00:31:57]>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's I am someone who lives that I am someone who lives with that kind of um symptom picture. And when my thyroid is low, I am I am so low. I am so emotionally just like drudging through life and I'm I wouldn't say depression because it's that's what they have labeled it. It's a different feeling. It's just you're you can't you're cellularly metabolically not revved. Your engines are not revved.

[00:32:22]They're not revving and you're you just you can't you can't get out of bed. So, it looks a lot like depression, but really it's a very flat affect. And yeah, >> um it's terrible. It's a terrible place to be. It's a I see it a lot in young people. I can't tell you the amount of young people I've diagnosed with Hashimoto's. Teenagers, parents would come in. I would, usually the mom, I would diagnose them and they'd say, you know, my daughter has all these same symptoms. I'm like picking up clumps of hair from her right around her sink where she gets ready and blah blah blah. And I'm like, "Yeah, bring her in." And boom, she's got full-blown Hashimoto's, too. And every patient that came in was like, "Well, I have Hashimoto's." And I'm like, "Well, join the club, girl, cuz don't we all?"

[00:33:01][laughter] >> Honestly, I mean, and and you know, if we back up, we know that Epstein bar virus. Okay, back up from that mono. So, at some point in time, you had mono leaves a mark EBV. EBV is a huge precursor to Hashimoto's. Tina, I haven't yet I I've not tested a single person yet who does not have EBV. It's like we've all had mono at some point, whether you know it or not. I didn't even know it. I tested myself. I was like, "Oh, lookie there. Okay, I must have just been like really sick one time in college. Maybe just, you know, laid in bed for a couple days, whatever." But EBV is a huge precursor to Hashimoto. So I think it's safe to say like 80 to 90% of the population has Hashi.

[00:33:45]>> Oh yeah.

[00:33:46]>> Whether they know it or not.

[00:33:47]>> Yeah.

[00:33:47]>> Yeah. For sure. And let's talk about that because people think it's some kind of like special rare diagnosis and it's not. It's I'm not trying to take away somebody's lived experience by any means and they're suffering. I believe it's real. We've just talked about that. But it's so common because >> there's so many drivers the thyroid it's like molecular mimicry on that poor thyroid is talk about that like because this is where people get glummed up.

[00:34:15]They think they have some special disease and I'm like no your poor thyroid is getting >> the body's getting very confused and the poor thyroid's taking the hit.

[00:34:22]>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, whenever we're talking about autoimmune in general, I love the analogy of a three-legged stool where, okay, on the one leg you have that genetic predisposition. So, you think back, does your mom, your sister, your aunt, your grandma, your grandpa, whatever, have any kind of autoimmune. It can be psoriasis, type 1 diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, you know, whatever autoimmune condition there is. There's that genetic predisposition. Then, you know, the other leg of the stool, we have leaky gut, which pretty much we all have these days. I mean with the onslaught of chemicals that we put into our bodies, on our bodies, in our food, franken food, depleted soil, the whole deal.

[00:35:00]Okay, we we have leaky gut. Then that third leg is that trigger and and that's that what can trigger us is is huge. It could be something as simple as puberty, pregnancy, pmenopause, menopause, hormonal shifts. It could be stress, um death, divorce, taking care of a parent, trouble with your kids. I mean, a move.

[00:35:23]I mean, all of that or it could be >> a viral infection. However, I'm gonna say next. It could be a viral load, right? So, that those are all the the things called life. Basically, life can trigger an autoimmune condition to turn on. And Hashimoto's is just one of those that that switch flips so easily because the thyroid is the canary in the coal mine. It responds to everything. Every nutrient deficiency, every stressor, every hormonal fluctuation, basically every thought you have in your head, like the thyroid processes it. So if you're anxious, if you're depressed, the thyroid is taking that beating. So when we're talking about Hashimoto's, just like you said, it's essentially your immune system going out and beating up your thyroid gland. Like we can see it on ultrasound. It starts looking like like Pac-Man attacked it. Like jagged.

[00:36:16]It gets smaller. And I always say to people, listen, if I came over and beat you up every day, do you think that you would do your job well? You know, would you be a good mom, a good parent, a good spouse, whatever, a good friend. No.

[00:36:29]You'd be dragging ass. You would want to lay in bed and not do anything. That's your thyroid. It wants to lay around and not do anything because it's getting beaten up on a daily basis when you have Hashimoto's and Hashimoto's goes undiagnosed so often. So, I mean, how many times have you seen your patients come in with no antibbody testing or a doctor will run like one out of the two and I'm like, "Hello, there's two antibodies that we want tested here.

[00:36:57]Your doctor only tested one and called it a day." every patient. I mean, because this was, you know, I think people are talking about it more now, but functional medicine and naturopathic doctors were really like we were just quacks. We were just considered quacks back in the day. So, you know, nobody nobody ever had their thyroid antibodies ran. I run them first and foremost on every single patient. And some people would argue with me, but the reason I do it is this. They're inexpensive for the most part. And uh when you start running antibbody panels, like you're looking for autoimmune disease in general, those can get quite expensive quite quickly in the in the grand scheme of things. So if people aren't using insurance, and I actually don't want this to show up on people's insurance to be totally truthful with you. I encourage people I I always used co-ops, lab co-ops, so people would pay. My practice was never insurance based. It was, you know, payment of time of service. This allowed them to get labs at a very ridiculously reduced price. it didn't have to show up on insurance. Nobody knew the wiser. It was just in our chart between us. And um because if their thyroid antibodies were elevated, I was like, "Welcome to the rainbow. Welcome to the autoimmune rainbow." I'm dealing with somebody's usually muscularkeeletal pain. In most of those cases, chronic muscularkeeletal pain. And so I'm trying to figure out how immune driven this muscularkeeletal complaint is because a I would say most muscularkeeletal complaints are immune driven. if it's not a frank overt injury, um it's probably to some degree immune driven. And so this was our flag.

[00:38:26]We would have some I'm like, okay, now we treat as if autoimmune because that's kind of a a little bit more diligent dietary and lifestyle recommendation situation and patients aren't always keen to do it. But if you have something objective, you can show them like you have elevated thyroid antibodies. this is not going to get better until you change all the quit drinking, quit smoking, or at least cut back the booze, quit smoking, and cut the gluten out, whatever. Um, >> anyway, I so I ran thyroid antibodies on everyone because I was looking for that canary in the coal mine. I was I I it was the flag that would give me the indication if it was clinically indicated based on their history that maybe we should start looking for those viral titers of different, you know, we should start looking for infections, definitely treat the gut. But like it's a really inexpensive way to find out kind of your overall situation I would say.

[00:39:15]>> Oh yeah, absolutely. And and antibodies can come back as a false negative for you know on a couple different tests. I mean we might be testing someone it'll be zero zero zero and then bam they're there. And it's not to say that Hashimoto's just occurred. There there are conditions it's called serero negative antibodies that we'll see a zero but we know that that person has autoimmunity like we know that that's the driver. Now that being said too it doesn't really change how we treat you.

[00:39:45]We just want to know like we want to know so we can really put the hammer down and make you go gluten-free and control your stress because those are all the things like you said molecular mimicry whenever you eat gluten that's kicking up a a thyroid storm. It's kicking up your antibodies basically to attack your thyroid. So I try to to explain that to my patients. I explain that in the book that every single time you just say, "Ah, screw it. I'm just going to eat the piece of pizza with gluten in it." And you have Hashimoto's, you're literally building your army of soldiers that like to go out and attack.

[00:40:17]And you're literally launching that attack. So knowing that someone has Hashimoto's just we get a little bit tighter, but it doesn't change what we're doing on the thyroid treatment side because for those we're looking at the important numbers, freeT3, reverse T3, and we're adjusting that way.

[00:40:37]>> Right. Right. It just gives us hopefully a little bit better compliance out of the patient because we want them to do those things anyway in general.

[00:40:44][laughter] So >> now we have some numbers to show them.

[00:40:47]>> Numbers to show. Yeah, exactly. I also think that the hair loss we saw with CO, everybody kept messaging me and they're like, "All my hair is falling out after they had CO. I really think COVID, and I've said this a million times before on this podcast, I think CO pushed people over the edge. They were already on." So, the cliff they were already on. So, a lot of people were already hypothyroid, undiagnosed. Nobody, you know, and what, like 90, 80, 90% of people with hypothy women with hypothyroidism have Hashimoto's. So like if you have if you've been diagnosed with hypothyroidism, there's a very high likelihood you actually have the autoimmune version and >> CO just shoved everybody over. If you were on the edge of menopause, CO shoved you over. If you were on the edge of hypothyroidism, it's usually a mixed bag. CO shoved you over and then all your hair falls out and you get thrust into menopause and you're like, "What happened? I feel so awful. Is this long CO?" I'm like maybe or maybe you were just on the edge of something and it was like here you go.

[00:41:46]>> Yeah. Just going to kick you right off that edge. [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:41:50]>> So, I don't know. I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Because I I feel like that a lot of people just went real hypothyroid after that.

[00:41:58]>> Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Absolutely. And and it's hard to say. It's like did that viral load kind of tip the scale and and allow that switch to turn on? And that was the first time it turned on maybe or was someone really hypothyroid to begin with. Then you like you say COVID happens, it pushes them over the cliff.

[00:42:21]Now they're really noticing the symptoms. Come on. Like now they're paying attention. Whereas before, okay, it might have been a little bit of hair loss, a little bit of weight gain, a little bit of low energy, and now it's just exploded to where it's affecting quality of life.

[00:42:35]>> And that's what the thyroid does. I mean, it will affect your quality of life. Absolutely. Oh, in so many ways.

[00:42:41]Um gosh, I was at the gym the other day and I saw so many women there that had low functioning thyroid and they were just crushing themselves on the treadmills >> and the rowers and like no one's lifting weights. They're just all over there like crushing themselves on the cardio.

[00:42:56]And I'm like, God, this is the same thing that's been going on in the gym for decades. I has nobody learned anything. You know, you're And I'll say this and I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[00:43:06]I I think you're going to agree with me.

[00:43:07]giving thyroid to a patient doesn't necessarily mean they're going to have weight loss after, >> right?

[00:43:13]>> And that's really frustrating for people because they they think, "Oh, well, if I get the thyroid, then the weight will come off or if I get the HRT, the weight will come off." And that doesn't usually work out that way, but it does seem to abate the consistent weight gain that was happening. What are your thoughts?

[00:43:28]>> Right. Exactly. Well, I mean, yeah, the bottom line is if your thyroid isn't functioning well, and specifically if you don't have enough T3, like we've been talking about, the active thyroid hormone, or maybe you are being treated for your thyroid, and it's being treated improperly, you're given too much T4. I mean, just like Dr. Tina said when she was on Naturoid, that's 80% T4 and 20% T3. Even though, okay, yay, there's some T3 in there, that was too much T4 for you. So that pushed your reverse T3 too high. So whenever someone is in that space of elevator reverse T3 andor low free T3, you're going to have a slow metabolism. I mean across the board, you have no chance whatsoever of losing weight and you probably will continue to gain weight if those markers are off.

[00:44:16]Then we start treating you properly and then it becomes okay that's going to help with the metabolism. But now what else has been thrown off through the decades that you've gone mistreated or undiagnosed? Are you now insulin resistant? Are your hormones low? Is your cortisol functioning wonky? Like it's too high, too low, whatever. So we have to look at all the other factors that play into metabolism and weight loss in addition to thyroid. You're right. just giving thyroid isn't the be all end all. And how many popup clinics, you know, these these silly on the corner hormone popup clinics will hand out thyroid like it's candy for weight loss, but then never check somebody. And I think that's really where it's getting the bad reputation is like, oh, here's some thyroid for weight loss. It's like, wait, no. We want to optimize somebody and look at all of the factors contributing to their weight, not just hand them thyroid and tell them this is going to fix them.

[00:45:16]>> There's always so many greedy pop-up clinics. I know whether it's GLP1s, whether like the whole micro doing conversation that got completely destroyed. My my whole strategy has [laughter] been co-opted, manipulated, and twisted into some crazy whatever.

[00:45:31]And there's always there's always some it's always something, right? And but at the end of the day, I you if you take a fragile person who I I think this is the same with GLP1s too. If you take an individual who is really metabolically compromised, their system is sluggish, their thyroid is sluggish, um and then you either hit them hard with thyroid or you hit them hard, what's more h often happening, you hit them hard with GLP-1. Um it's the the entire ecosystem of your body including your vascular system everything your nervous system all of it is dependent on thyroid working properly and and all of it has thyroid receptors.

[00:46:13]So these people get hit with these copious amounts of GLP1s and sort of sent on their way and then they wonder some of these terrible side effects that people are having. I'm like I guarantee that patient was hypothyroid. I guarantee that that person who experienced blindness and or gastroparesis andor any other slew of the things that everyone likes to scare you about with them, the dose of the GLP-1 was too high. And I guarantee you they were hypothyroid and it was not addressed >> and >> or the GLP1 won't work, right?

[00:46:44]>> I've seen that too because of the thyroid. Yeah. Thyroid's low and slow.

[00:46:47]GLP1 won't work. People are wasting money.

[00:46:50]>> Yeah. And it's it's really frustrating, I'm sure, for the patients, and I'm sure it's frustrating for folks to try to figure out how to, you know, navigate this. But like, that is such a it's such an obvious one to me. And I'm just sitting there like, oh, and then of course they come into my DMs and they're like, GP ones are killing people. You're a shell. You know, on and on with all the nonsense. And I'm like, well, you guys are like, I can't. This is why I had that course, the GLP1 done right university, because I couldn't teach functional medicine to people and teach them about GLP1s. This is a this is a combo. We need all the things working.

[00:47:23]This is you know we we dial in I personally dial in adrenal first then thyroid then HRT then we apply the GLP1.

[00:47:31]We may apply the GLP1 earlier in the in the schematic as we're going along so long as we are in congruence and we are working together and we are moving towards the same place right and and the patients doing their due diligence which is all the things you can't just people out there you can't just take thyroid and expect the miracles to happen it's just like GLP once you have to go to the gym you have to eat nutritionally dense food you have to make sure you're dealing with your sleep and your stress like talk about that because this is that's the part people also my patients will be like I I don't know why it's work not working. And I'm like cuz you sit on your ass all day and you're [laughter] not doing anything and you're eating Cheetos. That's why.

[00:48:08]>> Exactly. Well, yeah. It's that whole foundation, you know, whether we're talking about thyroid hormone or BHRT hormone, you have to have that. You can't put those beautiful hormones on a dumpster fire. You know, you got to have that foundation. You got to at least be taking care of yourself, controlling your insulin, everything you just said, sleeping, all the things for that hormone to work, for that thyroid hormone to work in your body. And the thyroid hormone, whatever it is, T4, T3, T3 only, whatever combination we find for you in the dose that works for you, needs nutrient support. So, we have to have the the basic key nutrients, the zinc, the mag, selenium. Um, I'm a huge fan of iodine. I know that's controversial, but I believe that that's essential as well. We have to have that on board. You can't be eating processed foods. And again, like throwing hormones on a dumpster fire, not going to work.

[00:49:04]But when you do all the things, it just it's like a synergistic symphony. I mean, it all works beautifully together and you will get results a lot faster when you have that foundation going on and and supported of the thyroid.

[00:49:18]>> Yes. Yes. It's it's all the things and it's really the it doesn't um well let me back up and let me say this a different way. If you're listening and you this is ringing a bell and you're like this is my problem. I got to go I got to go see Dr. Amy and get this address. What I really want to emphasize, this is why I brought it up, is there's so much work that you can do on your own to really optimize your system so that when those hormones are applied or those GLP1s are applied, it works beautifully.

[00:49:49]When I have a patient come in who's like you or like me and they're relatively fit and they eat relative relatively well and they're doing, you know, all the things and they're like, we find out they have Hashimoto's and you give them a little sprinkling of some thyroid and you get it's so much easier to get the dose right. It's so much easier to get them optimized. It's so much easier to use the, you know, littlest amount of GLP-1 necessary or andor the HRT versus somebody who is just a hot mess of inflammation and metabolic dysfunction.

[00:50:17]And those people, it's like chasing a moving target, right? You're >> and and everybody's frustrated. And these are the people we see in our comment section who are like, I spent so much money on functional medicine doctors and blah blah blah. And I'm like, are you going to the gym?

[00:50:33][laughter] >> Right. Something simple like Yeah.

[00:50:35]>> More fun like like basics, you know?

[00:50:39]>> Exactly. And to your point earlier, you were talking about reverse D3 that all of those things that you just said >> drive up reverse D3. So reverse T3 essentially, it's a marker we want to test, but it it puts your body into this lockdown survival mode. And the way that I describe it is T4 has to convert into T3. So it has two paths it can go down. Your even the T4 that your own thyroid gland is making, it can choose to go down the path of and become free T3. T3, the active thyroid hormone. We hope it does that. That's what the body is supposed to do. It's supposed to take that T4 and convert it into T3. But it has this other path it can go down called reverse T3. If it goes down that path, your body literally thinks that you are lying in the ICU or the ER fighting for your life. That's what reverse T3 is built in us for.

[00:51:34]Because when we are injured, when we're in a trauma state, when when our energy resources of our body needs to go to healing or keeping the heart beating or keeping the brain alive, our bodies know that. And our bodies know in that time of crisis, you don't have to burn fat.

[00:51:53]You don't need to make major decisions.

[00:51:54]You don't need to grow your hair. You don't need to poop every day. You just need to lie there and survive.

[00:52:00][laughter] >> But what if reverse T3 is elevated when you're not in the hospital? Now, that becomes a massive problem. So, your body literally thinks that you are in this lockdown mode. Well, what are the drivers of reverse T3? Elevated insulin from eating like garbage, elevated cortisol. you're all stressed out and wigged out or you just have environmental stressors that are throwing off your adrenals, your liver, your gut, huge, huge places of conversion. So, how many livers are gked up? How many guts are messed up? There's so micronutrient deficiencies. There's so many things that get in the way of that T4 to T3 conversion that, you know, to your point, you have to do what you can to clean up the house first and then we work on adding in that thyroid hormone. And yeah, we can bring down your reverse T3 if you're doing your part, but you got to do your part.

[00:52:55]>> Yeah. And your muscle, it's a is a huge conversion site.

[00:52:59]>> Active skeletal muscle is a huge conversion site of T4 into the active form of T3. And that's something that is highly neglected. I have given lectures in front of medical doctors on stages about this and they want to poo poo me because I you know it was like 10 years ago. I'm like you need to eat steak and deadlift. [laughter] They were like who is this quack? So uh I I I'm vindicated because it turns out I was correct. But uh it's the spark, right? Like it works.

[00:53:27]Everything just works so much better. I just went through that Amy. I was you know my mom was sick and I've shared this with my audience. She was really sick. She was a lot sicker than I've led on to everybody publicly. And uh it was real dicey there for a minute. And interestingly with Cortisol, I call it coming down the mountain. Do you know that? Were you ever a fan of Jane's Addiction? The band Jane's Addiction.

[00:53:48]>> Oh, see.

[00:53:49]>> Yeah. Their mountain song, you know, like coming down the mountain and then it crashes. The song crashes. That's how it feels. So >> that's it.

[00:53:57]>> You're like cortisol, cortisol, cortisol. And I'm running on cortisol and everything is okay because I'm on so much cortisol. I can't think straight.

[00:54:03]I'm just like taking care of my mom. I'm taking care of [ __ ] I'm handling it.

[00:54:06]I'm on cortisol. I'm on cortisol. And then all of a sudden, the crisis is over and coming down the mountain, right? You just crash hard and boom, I gain 10, 15 pounds just overnight. And my daughter's like, "Mom, you have body dysmorphia."

[00:54:21]I'm like, "Zoe, none of my pants fit.

[00:54:24]Like nothing fits. I am in all dresses all day cuz I literally nothing fits."

[00:54:29]And I know it was just a cortisol overload, but that cortisol overload just destroyed my thyroid function. So, of course, I get the bumps on the arm and I get the course. I mean, we should talk about that because like if your thyroid is low, your keratinocytes aren't turning over. So, you end up with cystic acne. You end up with the bumps on the arm. You end up with rough I I get rough outer thighs. Um, I just get rough skin everywhere. I get that, you know, I've seen dermatologists on Instagram talk about that fishy skin that people get on their shins.

[00:55:00]>> Yeah.

[00:55:01]>> And and they're like, "Oh, it's a vitamin deficiency or it's or it's this or it's that or it's you need more moisture." I'm like, "No, that's a thyroid symptom. Ingrown toenails are a thyroid symptom because the keratinocytes around the nail bed won't shed. They just build up and build up and build up. And I can't tell you how many young people I've helped with chronic cystic acne. you give him some thyroid and all of a sudden the cellular turnover starts and the cystic acne starts to resolve significantly. So it's, you know, chronic stress will wreck you. [laughter] Just wrecked me. And the older I get, the less tolerant I am of it. I'm I told my husband, I'm like, I'm out of my nine lives. I can't I can't have one more big no no big crisis for a while. I I [laughter] >> Seriously, I know your body doesn't doesn't need anymore. But you know what?

[00:55:50]you you you bring up a really good point that's worth mentioning. How many people and even even our listeners I know this will go okay it's my adrenals I need can I can I get an adrenal supplement like I just need to fix my adrenals where it's like um it started there and now it's your thyroid. So, you can fix your adrenals all you want, but now your thyroid just took a hit. And if you don't go and address the master gland, you can throw all the adrenal supplementation, do all like the adrenal cocktails that meditate, whatever, and your thyroid's still going to be in the toilet because you just went through a major stressor.

[00:56:28]>> Yeah.

[00:56:28]>> So, yeah.

[00:56:29]>> Yeah. I had to up my T3 dose. I had to like crank it up for a few days there until my lights turned on. That's what I do. I I work on my on my medication until my lights turn on and then once my lights turn on I know what to do but I can't when I'm behind the ball. I just I can't see it. You know all you do you're like swimming. It's like uh the never- ending story when he's in the swamp of sorrow and his horse gets sucked in and you're like you know core memory. You're just devastated. Little I was like an 8-year-old girl crying in the theater.

[00:57:00]>> Yep. Yep.

[00:57:01]>> That's how hypothyroidism feels. It feels like the nothing of the never- ending story. It It feels exactly like the nothing. And it feels like the swamp of sorrow where your horse gets sucked.

[00:57:10]I don't I It's >> That's exactly >> swamp of sorrow. I love it. Oh my gosh.

[00:57:15]>> And you can't see until you're out of it. And then you're like, "Oh, okay. I know what to do." But there's a lot of people there's so many people out there dealing with hypothyroidism right now and getting no help. And it's it's heartbreaking because they're living a subpar life and they're physically in a subpar state. And it's just your work that this book is so important. I hope everybody goes and reads it and comes to your clinic and comes to see you because this is like it's heartbreaking.

[00:57:43]>> I know. I know. And that's why I'm trying to I mean we are trying to scream it from the rooftops. I and I appreciate your help getting the message out that it's like please like life is meant to be lived to the fullest. Yes, stressors are going to happen. You know, parents are going to get sick. You know, stressors will happen. But I Tina and I are telling you all that you can absolutely live a bright and vibrant life. You can have energy. You can control your weight. You can poop every day. You can grow your hair. Like your brain can function when you address this master gland. It really is possible. So if you have symptoms, anything that we're talking about today, you know, pay attention to those symptoms. They are they are little warning signs that your body is giving you. And don't dismiss them. Don't medically gaslight yourself either. Don't blow it off and go, "Well, you know, I'm just aging." "Well, you know, I'm under stress." Because I mean, you could do that. You could be like, "Well, you know, I well, you know, better, but let's say an average person just went through what you went through." They'd be like, "Well, you know, it was stressful, so that's why I gained some weight and that's why I feel kind of sluggish." Well, yeah, it was stressful and now that stress just hit your thyroid. So, you don't have to continue feeling sluggish and and gaining more weight and fighting the weight that came on. There's an answer.

[00:59:03]There's absolutely an answer. [laughter] >> I'll share this. I'm being super uh just open today. I told my husband when I first met him, I said, "If I'm coming unglued in any way, shape, or form, whether it's because I have chronic pain and it ramps up sometimes and it is like takes your breath away. It's so bad.

[00:59:24]Whether it's the pain, whether I'm acting like a crazy person and not making sense, whether I am terribly depressed and in the whole whatever it is, tell me to go take my thyroid.

[00:59:35]>> That is our deal.

[00:59:36]>> And so he has it written down in his little book of he has all of his uh passwords in a little book and he has that written like all the symptoms I just listed off and a few others, thyroid and and underlined. And so the I kid you not, the other day he was like, "Do you need to check on your thyroid?"

[00:59:53]because I [laughter] was like I none of my clothes fit and I gained so much weight from this stress and I was crying and he's like do you need to check on your thyroid? [laughter] I was like yes yes I do thank you. So that's how important it is that like a doctor who knows all this has to tell her husband that's the emergency shoot. Like when in doubt get some thyroid and Tina and she'll usually figure it out. My lights will turn on and I'll like I said I'll know what to do next.

[01:00:20]>> So >> but it's true. I just I love how you shared your stories though because that that's the message right there. Like your stories that's the message. It it can be that simple. It really can.

[01:00:33]>> Yeah. It's the difference for me between the lights off and the lights on. When I was 15, uh I don't know what happened, but my lights went out. I just one day it was like somebody flipped a switch.

[01:00:43]It was honestly like a breaker blew. And I went into I went from being a happy, welladjusted kid, smiling, you know, uh, active, really, really high uh, intellect, like AP everything, you know, I was that girl. And the lights just went out on me and I fell into the worst depression. And unfortunately, it was the year Prozac came out. So, I spent the next 15 years getting antid-depressants shoved down my throat.

[01:01:10]And that was my big uh journey going into medicine was trying to figure that piece out. So that didn't have to happen. I know I don't talk about that stuff much, but like that's a huge part of it. When I look back at my photos from then, it is so evident that my thyroid dumped out at that exact age.

[01:01:26]And and who knows why I was I started smoking then. I was hanging out with the wrong kids. I started drinking alcohol then. I mean, I turned I just rebelled because my parents had my parents moved me out of the sun. They moved me from Southern California to Oregon. And about a year in, I just completely fell apart.

[01:01:41]And I a lot of it I think to do was the sun. The sun makes my thyroid work a whole lot better. That's why one of the main reasons I moved to Arizona. But uh >> I just looking at pictures now, I can see it clear as day. And when I think about any of the times in my life when I was just really having a hard time, it's so obvious that I was hypothyroid in photographs. So I just share that because once you see it, you can't unsee it. And when you're in it, it's hard to see. But if you can if if folks out there can start paying attention and find somebody to work with, even if it's not Dr. Amy, just finding somebody to work with who knows what they're doing, who's willing to prescribe the the hormone the adequately correctly and not just brush you off and say, "Oh, you're fine." Because the TSH, you know, that huge range. I heard somebody describe it like this, and you can steal this and use this on the rest of your interviews.

[01:02:28]I've heard it described as like you're a size seven and you go to the shoe store and they say, you say, "I like the shoe.

[01:02:35]It's cute. do you have this in my size?

[01:02:37]And they come out and they put a size 12 on your foot. And you're like, but I'm this doesn't fit. And they're like, yeah, but it's within the range. And you're like, no, I wear a size eight or whatever. No, it's it's within the range. Deal with it. Or they bring out a five and you can't fit in it. And they're like, too bad. You're within range. That's that's the that's the normal range. And you're like, but it doesn't fit and now I can't walk.

[01:02:58]>> Yeah.

[01:02:59]>> That's what's happening in thyroid land with most doctors.

[01:03:03]>> Exactly. I mean, there's so many people There's there's listeners right now who have a thyroid problem, but they're undiagnosed because their doctor only checked TSH.

[01:03:12]>> That's probably most of the people listening. That's why [laughter] I'm like beating this because I think most of the women when I get I'm sure you get a bazillion DMs a day, too. I get so many DMs. People like send me their novels of their entire health history for some reason.

[01:03:26]>> And I don't I can't respond. But um it's it's not legal and it's it's too much.

[01:03:31]But 99% of the time if I do click through to their profile, I just look at them and I'm like, "Oh, it's her thyroid."

[01:03:38]>> Yeah.

[01:03:38]>> Like their thyroid's off.

[01:03:40]>> Yep. [laughter] >> You can see it. The mixadema, the swollen face, the moon face, the thickening. Like if you're looking at yourself and your your face, like it's not just fat. It's literally like a thickening of the the face, of the neck, of the skin, back of arms. It's it's it's thicker.

[01:03:56]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:03:57]>> Yeah. Look at uh um Winston Churchill, Al Gore, Carrie Fischer, >> Kelly Clarkson is >> Kelly Clarkson. Rachel Ray, I want to help her.

[01:04:09]>> Stevie Nick. Yeah, I know. Rachel Ray, Stevie Nicks. If you watch the movie or the show Madmen, I don't know if people have seen that show, but Peggy, I think it was season one, Peggy went hypothyroid after the birth of her first baby. And yeah, that beautiful girl who the actress that played her, they probably had to put a suit on her. you know, but she got really heavy set and I was like, I just want to give poor Peggy some thyroid. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

[01:04:34]>> It's really And you end up I This is what really convinced me to take action on it and not be afraid of because I didn't want to take thyroid hormone for the rest of my life. I was like I was like so many of my patients and I'm sure your patients they're like I don't want to do that. Why are you know if I start this do I have to stay on this? I saw Dr. David Brownstein. He came to my school to talk to give a lecture at Grand Rounds and he showed a study. This is back in like 2004 2006. He showed a study in women in particular if they were subclinical hypothyroid meaning their labs look normal but symptomology was there. Um 2 like 56% increased risk for dying of a heart attack.

[01:05:14]>> Yeah.

[01:05:15]>> And I was like give me the thyroid.

[01:05:17][laughter] >> Yeah.

[01:05:18]>> And I just [clears throat] lost my aunt last year and she was so hypothyroid.

[01:05:23]I I I don't have this diagnostically.

[01:05:24]Just I'm saying from looking at her, I could tell she was so hypothyroid. I come from a long line of very hypothyroid people and we thicken up real fast. That thickness you talk about, you've seen it on me. And if you guys go back through my Instagram, just scroll back, you'll see it. You'll see exactly what we're talking about.

[01:05:38]There's a thickening that happened and people are like, "Oh, you look so good now." I'm like, "That's cuz I'm in the sun and my thyroid's working because I'm taking adequate T3." But um she had a heart attack and my dad has been so beat up about it and he's so confused as to why. And the whole time I'm like, "Dude, she's been hypothyroid forever." My his their parent, their mom, my grandma, she ended up in a assisted care facility with severe dementia. And the whole time I'm like, "Would somebody please give her some thyroid?" She was so hypothyroid. Visually, I could see it.

[01:06:06]And so, I mean, this is personal, you know?

[01:06:09]>> Yeah. I know. I know it.

[01:06:11]>> That's crazy. I joke if there's ever a zombie apocalypse, I told my husband, I'm like, "You're gonna find We have a big plot of land back that's like a nature preserve that we never I I never go in there, but that's where I found that baby raccoon last year, remember?"

[01:06:23][laughter] >> Yeah.

[01:06:25]>> Um the abandoned baby raccoon. She's all grown up now living with a lady and she's so cute. But anyway, I told him, I'm like, "You're gonna find I call it the back 40." I'm like, "You're gonna find me in the back 40 sucking thyroid glands out of squirrels." [laughter] >> Yeah.

[01:06:41]how critical that hormone is to me to feeling good.

[01:06:44]>> Yes. Or you just stock up right now on all kinds of thyroid hormone like you and I both did.

[01:06:49]>> Oh my gosh. Yeah. Right. So, I know I know time is short and you got to go. Is there besides obviously go buy the book, The Thyroid Fix. That will be out by the time this episode comes out. It'll be out uh direct people to all the things to all the places.

[01:07:03]>> Absolutely. So, you can go to thyroidfixbook.com.

[01:07:06]All this week, we're still offering all the bonuses that you get when you buy a book. So, you'll get an invite into the VIP Zoom room. We're doing an all day live launch party on Saturday, May 16th.

[01:07:17]>> That'll be a ton of fun. Ton of fun.

[01:07:20]Giving away like $10,000 worth of prizes. It's going to be crazy. It's going to be a lot of fun. And listen, if you're listening to this and you're like, "Yeah, I just don't know. I don't know whether I have a thyroid problem or not. It's kind of ringing true to me. I have the symptoms. I'm hearing what Dr. Tina anywhere saying, "Get the book."

[01:07:37]Yes, 100% get the book, but go join my Just Fix Your Thyroid Facebook group because in there you can literally post your labs. You can post your symptoms.

[01:07:46]My nurse practitioners are in there. I have patients in there that have been with me for years that they'll jump in.

[01:07:51]They'll be like, "Uh, yeah, okay. So, Tina, your reverse T3 is way too high here and your free T3 is." I mean, they will give you feedback on on what to do next. So, if you're not sure, if you can't even diagnose yourself based on this conversation, go join the Facebook group. We're in there to help you, too.

[01:08:09]>> I love it. I love it. And then, where can they find you? On Instagram, YouTube, all the places, >> all those things. Yeah. The the website is just drammy.com. Dr. Amie E., but on Instagram, it's the full name, Dr. Amy Hornman. Uh, same thing with YouTube, Dr. Amy Hornman. So, Dr. Amie E, and then my last name spelled out.

[01:08:27]>> And the book again, the book website.

[01:08:29]Say it. Say it again.

[01:08:31]>> thyroidfixbook.com.

[01:08:33]It's on Amazon, Target, Barnes & Noble.

[01:08:36]You can go right there if you want, but if you go to thyroidfixbook.com, that'll give you the instructions. Hey, once you buy it, shoot your receipt over and we'll give you that VIP link to the Zoom room on the 16th.

[01:08:48]>> I love it. So fun. Well, this has been such a great combo, Amy. I love your work. I'm so glad that you know thyroid was a kind of a big deal online if you several years ago and it kind of lost it the notoriety and then I met you and I was like she's bringing it back.

[01:09:02][laughter] >> This is so back. Yeah.

[01:09:05]>> Thank you.

[01:09:05]>> Well, I love you lady. Thanks for coming on the show and I hope everybody goes out and buys your book, The Thyroid Fix.

[01:09:10]I'll make sure I'll I'll share it out on Instagram, too. This is really important, you guys. So, and go check out Amy's work and we'll make sure that all the links are in the show notes.

[01:09:18]Thanks for listening [music] to the Dr. Tina Show. This is a Wellness Loud production produced by Drake Peterson.

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