| DAY BREAK | Fuelling The Economy [Part 1]

Ajouté : 2026-05-20

[00:00:00]Welcome back. You're watching Debbre on this 18th day of May 2026. And in studio I have Deputy Speaker Gladis Bos. Good morning.

[00:00:07]>> Good morning.

[00:00:08]>> It's good to have you here. Um honorable Jerry Miner from Kiryaga County. We're expecting her. At the same time, Senator Dan Mans will be joining us shortly virtually. He says that he's facing some challenges on the roads, but as soon as he's ready for that, we'll be bringing him into the conversation. This morning, we are talking about the stories of Head in the Sand. is on the standard is talking about a public anger. As public anger grows over the record fuel price spike, President William and CSO and I have buried their heads in the sand, hoping the matter will resolve itself.

[00:00:41]But transport operators have vowed to paralyze travel across the country today to force a response, warning that rising fuel costs, heavy taxation, and unstable pricing have made operations unsustainable. In the meantime, the president has flown out of the country while senior officials remain detached, issuing conflicting explanations and defending contested fuel import policies. There's a similar story that is on the daily nation. Protests over high fuel prices set to disrupt public transport. Operators of public service vehicles have called a strike today demanding government action of after record fuel price hikes announced last Thursday pushed the cost of a lit of diesel by up to or rather up by 46 shillings to sell at 242 uh shillings as we speak. Now based on that story of course you're also witnessing some situation on the roads. People that used public transport early in the morning are reporting having to pay a few shillings or a few coins higher than what they are used to.

[00:01:43]It is one of the things that the MAT operators have said they're going to do.

[00:01:46]I think the announcement was that they would raise fairs by up to 50%. Mushmo Deputy Speaker, I don't know what you've seen on the roads, but also the your thoughts about where we are. Um, some are saying the high fuel prices are unsustainable. What can we do?

[00:02:02]Um um I think uh what has happened is is is regrettable.

[00:02:08]>> Yeah.

[00:02:08]>> But it is no making of the country or the executive or the leaders in in office. This has got come to do with the instability in um in fuel availability and transportation and distribution worldwide. Everybody knows about what's happening at the straight of Hamuz.

[00:02:27]>> Mhm. Erh so I think it doesn't it's not useful or productive for us to have um blame game. I think what we should be telling ourselves is this is what has happened. What can we do to protect Kenyans?

[00:02:43]>> It is the responsibility of the state to see how to navigate or to allow traders and the members of the public to be able to to uh to be cushioned. Mhm.

[00:02:58]>> against these challenges and something has been done. Uh already the government has deployed the petroleum development levy funds and that is exactly what the petroleum development levy fund uh money is supposed to be for. It's supposed to be during times like this it can be used to cushion the price of fuel and that has already happened. 5 billion has already been deployed. Uh secondly, parliament did amend the VAT uh act >> and uh reduced VAT from 16% to 8%.

[00:03:35]>> Right.

[00:03:36]>> Yeah. And so you can see that it was deliberate that something was being done to ensure that that the there's preservation of the citizens purchasing power and to ensure that the prices don't go higher than they already are.

[00:03:51]So yes, the prices have gone higher but a lot has been done and almost urgently and immediately it happened >> uh to ensure that we mitigate the damage and the to to Kenyans. So I think the conversation we should be having is what has our government done? Has the government taken steps to do something that was done immediately? M >> that's why you saw the price went up and it came down immediately and so and that is not the end of it. that shall continue to be done. And I know that uh I've I've been I've been talking to many people and many people say what can be done. I said those are the conversations you should be having with your members of parliament.

[00:04:33]>> Mhm.

[00:04:34]>> Because also uh if you look at the prices that um the fuel price really has got to do in fact I should probably show you the what the >> what actually brings the prices up. If you look at petroleum when it's landed, it's at 118 shillings. 118.45.

[00:04:56]So let's say 19 shillings. That's the cost of fuel, the freight, the insurance, etc. That's the landed cost.

[00:05:03]But we have the road maintenance levy, which is 25 shillings, >> right?

[00:05:08]>> But we know as Kenyans, all of us value the road maintenance levy because that's what is used to develop and is dedicated to our road infrastructure.

[00:05:17]>> Mhm. We have the excise duty which is 20.

[00:05:21]It's you can say 22 shillings.

[00:05:23]>> Yeah.

[00:05:23]>> That's a general tax for the national budget. That's how we fund our schools, our hospitals and so on. So that's a that's a a duty I mean a tax that's there. We have VAT >> which is now 17 shillings. It could have been double that.

[00:05:38]>> It's 18 shillings. It could have been doubled that amount.

[00:05:41]>> Mhm.

[00:05:41]>> And now that that's why I'm saying at least we must say something has been done. Parliament took the steps immediately. The the president signed the law immediately and it took effect and that's how we had an overnight change in the pricing. There's a pedalum de development levy which is five shillings.

[00:06:00]>> Mhm.

[00:06:00]>> And then there's other levies which comes to about two shillings.

[00:06:04]And then of course there's the margins that is that also has nothing to do with the state which has got to do with the storage distribution and the oil marketeteers profit because these are business people who do this.

[00:06:16]So again, members of the public should be having a conversation with their members of parliament saying, "What can we do to reduce these taxes that have been introduced over the years?"

[00:06:27]>> Yeah.

[00:06:28]>> And it's and it's not something you can say, "We'll just remove this."

[00:06:32]>> For example, um the road maintenance levy, we know some of it has been securitized >> to allow us to be able to get all the roads that had stalled to be up and running. M >> uh part of the petroleum development levy some of the monies that had been collected over the years has been has been used uh to bring to stabilize the the price and that has already has happened.

[00:06:56]>> So it it's a matter of conversation that what can continue be done what can has was immediately possible to be done has been done.

[00:07:05]>> Okay. what this the the next step should be is that uh we is is to say what else can be done and I and I think that is something we should have and that's why when I hear people in the United opposition complaining saying they'll they'll protest they'll go on strike and so on that won't change anything I think what they should be doing is mobilizing their members of parliament to raise this and I don't think it's if they raise how they what changes they need to in parliament. I don't think there's any parliamentarian who will be objectionable if it is logically possible and makes economic sense.

[00:07:42]>> I mean whatever you're explaining makes a lot of sense because that that is how the price of the pump prices are determined and it's in law. But the member of parliament for Kharu, Dindoro has written to the speaker asking for a special seating to review some of these laws including scrapping the VAT um reducing the road maintenance levy fund by seven shillings which you recall that was raised back in 2024 in July.

[00:08:09]>> Is this something that parliament will consider or it has to come from the majority side? Um, no. I think I think what he has raised is actually what all of us and that's exactly what I've been telling you this morning. I didn't even know that he had written that letter, >> but it's exactly what I've said is that we should be having conversations. Every citizenry should be putting pressure on their members of parliament to see what they can do.

[00:08:31]>> Yeah.

[00:08:31]>> And yes, having a special sitting that is is possible >> but again that has to be put with that is a prerogative and at the discretion of the the speaker. Mhm.

[00:08:44]>> You haven't heard of any developments so far.

[00:08:46]>> You've just told me about that he has written the letter but I know this I've heard from the grapevine that a lot of people are disc having that dis conversation but also at the same time we should be what should be raised is that you can't just say scrap this and scrap that. You must tell yourself in lie of that then what happens to other programs that are going on in the country? Are we going to make sure there's no medicines in the shops and so in the hospitals and so on? Do you want our schools to close down? No. So we there has to be a balance. You have to strike a balance. What makes sense? But what I think was the most important thing that was done is that most of the cushioning and stabilizing of the price went to kerosene. That's why the price of kerosene did not change because we are alive to the fact that a majority of Kenyans with low incomes depend on kerosene in their households perhaps.

[00:09:37]>> Yes. And so that and that's why you feel in Kenya we've [clears throat] cushioned.

[00:09:41]>> Yeah. No, no, that's okay. Let's hear from Senator Dan Mazo is now joining us.

[00:09:45]Senator, good good morning. And first of all, how come you're unable to get to studio?

[00:09:51]>> Maybe he uses >> Senator, can you hear me?

[00:10:00]>> Well, unfortunately, Senator, we don't we don't seem to hear you. Perhaps your microphone is on mute. Uh if you can hear us please check check that connection so that we can uh hear from you.

[00:10:11]>> Yes. Can you hear me now?

[00:10:13]>> Yes we can hear you. Please go ahead and why you not here?

[00:10:18]Well Sam you know first of all I wanted to give support to the strike today and uh that now that Kenyans described it as total shutdown then I have agreed and later on you know in uh I'll be communicating with the citizens of McQueen you know Mombasa road goes 300 kilometers uh through the mquin county and uh again you know I'm very disappointed of what the deputy speaker is say first and foremost most uh when you compare our prices with the region our prices are far too high. Uh kerosene is also actually used as jet fuel. So it means people who own aircrafts and helicopters they are also cushioned and these are rich people. Diesel is used by every common moni because that's where the mat is. That's where the lries which transport goods and food are uh that's where the tractors which farm are. And therefore, you know, it's surprising that diesel was made much higher than even petrol. But not withstanding, so long as you increase the cost of fuel, then it means you are going to not to cushion Kenyans at all, it means you are going to make everything expensive and therefore if there's a place Kenyans would have been cushioned was to do away with all the VAT and and any other tax which is not necessary. The most sad thing is that uh these taxes uh you know we collect from field they're supposed to build roads. We are doing very poor quality roads and I want to give the deputy speaker an example.

[00:11:56]You know there was a there's a road going to Nun which was done in the 70s.

[00:12:00]It is still good now but there's a a road we did recently you know between the con junction to macho town. It's now with portals and hardly 5 years. The problem is our engineers and the contractors are stealing. They're in collusion with the officers in the ministry of roads. And this is, you know, a lot of taxes are ending up in individual's pockets. This is how the government has failed terribly and and and should be doing everything to cushion Kenyans. If we don't lower the cost of living, it's not easy for anybody to trade, not easy for anybody to survive. And this is the reason Kenyans are saying R must go with his government including the deputy speaker because they don't want to listen to people. They don't want to follow science. They want to blame the state of our moods. You remember they announced that fuel Kenya was not going to be affected for a long time. We started losing fuel. We started go to petrol station. There was no fuel. They say there was enough fuel from the ministry.

[00:13:00]And now look what a mess we are. Kenyans have said no. They said shut down today.

[00:13:05]They want to send a message to the government. We are raising taxes which are being stolen. The government is being run in an incompetent manner like Jess you know without apply all the necessary uh you know expertise to run a nation. We have enough brilliant Kenyans who can run this nation better. So I believe Kenyans are right for us for calling for a shutdown so that the government can reduce the the the cost of fuel and make sure that production is done. YOU KNOW EVEN generators you know even companies which use you know make bread and all these sort of things and transport it. uh this is making everything extremely expensive for the country and it's a high time the government listened and lower the fuel prices and at least do away with the v the way they sat to to lower the 8% they should just quickly as requested by sit again and zero rate it >> now senator you have said that um the price is unsustainable if you look at the price of diesel the landed cost is 16751 the price on the 14th of April was 1666 cents or thereabout. So already the landed cost has matched what was the price at that time. If you to look at now the accumulation of the taxes and the oil marketing company's margins, you get to 242 shillings. Which particular tax would you want removed? You've called them unnecessary. So which one should you target?

[00:14:35]>> Sam, allow me to say something v. Let's begin there. 08 VIT. It will take back the prices to where they were before.

[00:14:47]>> Sam, allow me to to say something here because he just made a statement where he said, look, they have deliberately kept the price of diesel high.

[00:14:57]>> First [laughter] of all, and that's why I'm saying it's very good for people to substantiate and actually be factual about their figures.

[00:15:04]>> The landed cost of super petrol is 118 shillings.

[00:15:07]>> Mhm.

[00:15:08]>> The landed cost of diesel is 180. So you're not comparing apple for apple.

[00:15:13]>> These are two different products with different landed costs. If you look at the road maintenance levy is the same as the one of petrol. Yeah.

[00:15:20]>> For diesel. The excise duty is the same.

[00:15:23]The VAT is the same. The petroleum development levy is the same. But because of the landed cost, it's higher than super petrol. So to say that they government has deliberately kept the cost of fuel high is is is not factual and it's a very pedestrian way of explaining things. What he should be saying what he what the fact is is that diesel it's a it's a law of demand and supply.

[00:15:50]>> The cost of diesel would go higher because of the demand manufacturing uh transportation etc. Most of it uses diesel. That's why you see the price of diesel is higher because of the demand >> for diesel. So yes, >> the fact that there's there's a there's a crisis, the international crisis, there's intern in instability, the demand for diesel is higher and that is why the one for for petrol is lower. The levies are exactly the same. And I want I would like >> Mhm.

[00:16:25]>> honorable manu to explain to us and say okay let's look at the road maintenance levy how much of that can be reduced. He we can give us a logical request >> to parliament to say that his suggestion is to reduce it. But as he suggests to reduce it, he must look at the fact that how many roads are ongoing and dependent on the road maintenance levy including the constituencies development fund which um which he managed for a long time when he I mean which he was part of when he was a member of parliament before he went to Senate. So that's why I said I am I am not saying that we are blind to the plight of Kenyans. I'm saying we acknowledge what has been done was done swiftly. We will continue and be committed.

[00:17:21]>> Yeah.

[00:17:21]>> As your members of parliament to continue to bring suggestions on the table on what can be changed.

[00:17:27]>> I don't think there's a single member of parliament who's who's who's who just doesn't want to deal with the situation. Everyone is saying what can we do? Those I've had conversations with and that's why I have notes. We were breaking down and saying what can be looked after. I have requested and said let the committee engage with the relevant ministry. Yeah.

[00:17:48]Our energy committee in parliament. Uh and the good thing is they are currently under engagement anyway. Most of the as as much as we are on recess >> the budget hearings have been ongoing.

[00:18:00]So this is actually a live conversation in the committees.

[00:18:03]>> All right.

[00:18:04]>> So parliamentarians are not at home.

[00:18:07]Parliamentarians are in the committee hearings at the moment and I know that when I did speak to the to the the members >> committee hearings who are they speaking to >> the they are engaging with the ministries ministries the state departments and agencies remember it's the budget making process at the moment >> so the hearings are ongoing that's what has been happening during this month of recess and many of them have had occasion because they are having sittings relating to the budget they're also having sittings discussing this because the big discussion is if we reduce this how then do we fund the national budget if we reduce some of the duties >> and that's why I was saying that there is anybody who cares enough is is looking and interrogating and asking suppose we reduce the VAT to zero what happens >> what is the effect that it will have on >> let's hear from senator man because um >> and I agree let's have a conversation about it >> oh okay now senator man we're trying to get to you because you're suggesting that we zero rate um VAT on fuel.

[00:19:10]>> Currently the VAT on diesel is 17 shillings 99 cents. If you remove that would uh reduce the price of a lit of diesel to 224 shillings 93 cents in Nairobi. Um what more do you want us to do? Because you said that removing VAT will take us to the original price which is surely not possible because >> and what deficit will we create?

[00:19:32]>> Sorry just go ahead Senator. We cushion Kenyans a little bit but uh if you look at the fuel general it has many other taxes.

[00:19:41]>> Yes.

[00:19:41]>> Uh you know we can we can deal with the road levy because that's necessary.

[00:19:46]>> It's currently 25 shillings.

[00:19:49]>> I'm saying it's currently 25 shillings.

[00:19:50]What do we reduce?

[00:19:53]>> I just say that even if we were to reduce on the road level >> at least we should be at par with the countries within eastern African region.

[00:20:02]also all of us transport fuel you know from the high seas almost at the same cost.

[00:20:08]>> So so we just need to look at that generally because when you kill the whole economy >> then >> it will be very expensive to farm.

[00:20:16]>> It will be expensive to move goods. It will be expensive to do everything else and after all anyway all the taxes collected a lot of them end up getting lost in corruption. Uh you know there's a lot of corruption in construction of roads. If you see the cost per kilometer in in Kenya the cost per kilometer in Bnafaso the amounts of part. So if if also then we would make sure that uh you know structures which support loss of corruption for example we should be making amendments of the laws. You know what happens is that if you make a bad road you have about a year to be paid.

[00:20:52]But if we we could move that to 10 years so that you you know if you make a road and within 5 years it it is destroyed then it means you have some part of your money is retained as a way of making sure there's no corruption in that regard or even the sentences of people who steal through that mechanism. We'll be able to save a lot more money. We are still losing a lot of money with corruption every day. That's the same money we should be cushioning Kenyans with. I think whatever for whatever reason we must make sure that cost of fuel is affordable to Kenyans.

[00:21:27]>> Affordable. Now Senator, you're saying that we look at the road maintenance levy. Um there's a proposal by Dan Doro to scrap the seven shilling increment that was effected back in 2024. But then again, the same seven shillings is already securitized. If you to look at the structure of that money, there's also some three shillings out of the 25 that goes to the annuality program. So in essence, you're left with about what 15 shillings. There are conversations to securitize five shillings further that will leave you with just 10 shillings of uh wiggling space.

[00:22:01]>> That's okay. BUT WE KNOW THE THE THE landing costs and the number of uh you know um uh taxes. surrounding other than just the road levy and the VAT quite a number of others which you know can can be skillfully dealt with.

[00:22:21]One of the things I think uh the energy regulatory authority has been failing in IS CONSULTING imagine a bit a little bit of consultation like public participation because this is mandatory our in our con and the stakeholders are brilliant and they are experts in THIS REGION I'M SURE they were consulting before just waking up and increasing well within every month if they have a constant way of consulting stakeholders I'm sure you know from the law societ society from the the traders in energy from economies from government departments we'll be able to come up with something uh you know scientifically proven and something which balances the taxes and the earnings and the sort of money we need to collect to to do the roles but they never consult anybody all that we hear in in you know in that area and from the KPC people who had you know committed crime uh the the monies is taken were recovered. There's an exhibit. No one has been taken to court up to today.

[00:23:26]This is where Kenya has a problem. Why have these people not gone to court and they committed serious crimes? You could see the drama in which they were arrested in and then all of a suddenly no prosecution uh you know for these particular people because they are protected people by the state. So we need to see you know action when people mess up and most important we be not following the constitution when it comes to prices incre increments. I am sure most of the questions you are asking me if they had consulted experts in this particular area would have something well balanced public participation of at least once a day in every month and I'm sure enough Kenyans will give enough input comparative studies with what is happening with other nations. How come in Uganda, Randa, Tanzania other than the simple reason given by the president that uh we have longer roads than them and they quickly proven us wrong. We are we are we we are richer than them. Trust me the economies of Rwanda and Uganda are growing at a faster rate than Kenya because they are controlling the cost of fuel and they and Kenya Kenyans are able to manufacture more you know when the cost is bearable and it is reasonable.

[00:24:35]>> Okay. All right. Senator do stay with us and of course this morning receiving a lot of information about people who are stranded on the roads. The super metro that released a message on ex saying that in view of the mat strikes slated for uh today we will not be in operation. We shall communicate when services will resume and that is a similar story with different public uh uh transport operators. Jeremiah woman representative of Kiryaka County now joins us. Um you are caught in the situation.

[00:25:07]>> Good morning Sam.

[00:25:08]>> Good morning.

[00:25:09]>> Um yes um I took an Uber here and three Ubers cancelled before one eventually you know um agreed to come pick me and drop me here. So I was caught up in the same situation. Um I have found quite a number of pe um personal cars on the road. But you can imagine the number of Kenyans who stranded you know um the regular Kenyans who are just going to um their jobs. Uh some of them who are going to their own businesses um and I think this is an issue that we must take responsibility as leaders. We were here some um I think some three weeks ago when we were talking about um procurement outside G2G um and I told you that and now I'm vindicated that it was just being taken around in circles that we were not going to see any prosecution happening and we haven't seen to date. So I do wonder um how much longer they need to uh quote unquote investigate >> Mhm. that and we can of course we all know that u we have an issue with um the US um Iran Israel um >> the the war >> the war right but then at the end of the day we must also look at the um how much is the landing cost per barrel there there has been issues of procurement outside G2G we have he had that there are entities and companies you know persons who are in government involved involved in um the shipping of oil. So is it that people are actually making um an inflated landing cost out of it? Is it uh the reason we are seeing the high cost of fuel or is it the actual war? So all these issues make it very intricate but at the end of the day the Kenyan people just want a solution from the leaders and Gladis Pochet and I are the leaders that the Kenyan people are waiting for and um parliament is on recess. should be getting back to ensure that we address these concerns so that regular Kenyans can go on with their day-to-day activities.

[00:27:18]>> So, how do you get back? Because like I was telling Deputy Speaker and Senator Manzo, there's already um communication from Moshima said that he wrote to parliament and the speaker for to to call back parliament to a special session. What would it take if you know >> it wouldn't it would just take the goodwill you know of uh the powers that be. We have seen sometimes when we've had issues um the speaker convening um parliament urgently even extending sessions. So I mean does this matter to the national assembly? Does it matter enough to the speaker so that we can deliberate on these issues and see the recommendations on uh reduction of VAT on whether we can squeeze in um RMLF so that Kenyans can be cushioned further uh pending perhaps um stabilization of the global prices? Uh the issues of also prosecution of the persons who've been involved um with procurement outside G2G uh can parliament investigate you believe it's an offense.

[00:28:21]>> We have a committee. Do you believe they committed an offense?

[00:28:24]>> I did not say that.

[00:28:25]>> Yeah. You're saying you want to, >> but they were arrested. So, we should be told how um the file has progressed further. You know, we should be told whether um the DPP now has the file, whether they're going to recommend um or they've recommended charges. Um we saw letters from CSS, we saw letters from um PSS, we saw letters from Ke. So, it was a whole um communication.

[00:28:50]>> Mhm. and the organs that are responsible for investigating the DCI, the the DPP recommending charges so that we know how far along are we with that file, >> who is supposed to be held responsible and who should and why have they not been held responsible.

[00:29:07]>> Okay, >> you know, Sam, it's um it's it's it doesn't help it's it's counterproductive for people in leadership to speak in generalities >> because that doesn't resolve the problem.

[00:29:20]Jerry here is a brilliant lawyer. She knows if you think a matter is taking too long. You know what people do? You write to the you can engage with law society even to take it up or yourself to say we would like to get an update on this particular matter. The attorney general owes you to tell you that you can ask the investigating bodies to do that. So I want to see you having written a letter having asked questions for them to respond to it. How far has it gone? you can be part of the matter even if it is just being there to to hear the case and follow it up so that you are able to raise any issues that you think there any gaps. So we must look proactive not just saying that is wrong that is not being done we are not seeing this cuz those generalities are not going to change the issues relating to Kenya we had the VAT debate in parliament when the VAT law was being passed to reduce it to 8%. you were not present in parliament. Neither was Ninjoru. So the thing is if you saw that immediately I would have expected you that you were one of the most vocal people because you could have said 8% is not enough. You'd have been recorded in the handset saying I want it reduced to zero. But you can't wait for something to happen then you say oh that's not good enough.

[00:30:32]>> I think this should happen but that's not the forum. You're not going to change it to 0% by talking on television. You have to be in the house at the time the debate is going on.

[00:30:43]>> Okay.

[00:30:43]>> And would have liked to hear that voice.

[00:30:45]And then also another issue.

[00:30:46]>> Let's also agree what are we discussing.

[00:30:49]Are we discussing allegations of corruption here and there or are we discussing the fuel price so that we go topic by topic? I've already told them how they can invol get involved in that corruption case >> to be able to be able to come back to this TV station and say I wrote a letter. I engaged the the DCI. This is where I've looked at the statements because no one prevents you. Court processes and processes are not secret issues. They've been public even yourselves in the media had access to the documentation that is there. So what you can say I think where the offense was committed was here. We think that the church the church that they should be developing should be along these lines because when you put pressure like that it does work. I also appeal to the to the to the matu and public transport industry. Yes, the price of fuel has gone high and yes the price of transportation will increase but also as leaders we must engage them so that you're not doubling the price you are increasing increasing it prora to what has increased in the price so that we also manage that so that you don't take advantage of people and we saw sometimes there are business people who take advantage of crisises I know the the day before when people knew that the price will go a little higher, all petrol stations were saying they don't have fuel, but they did have fuel. They were waiting overnight. And that's why as leaders, as we must be vigilant and call out people who are doing that and right now we I say that we must engage with the public transport industry. I know they hard hit and so with the Kenyan public be also hard.

[00:32:27]>> Mr. Let's take a short break, but I owe you a right of reply. And also, we are joined by Senator Dan Manzo, who's not able to be here physically. We are back in a moment.

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