How much will relegation cost West Ham?

Added: 2026-05-26

[00:00:00]Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Leventhal. West Ham have been relegated from the Premier League just 3 years after winning the Europa Conference League, but just how costly will the drop be for the Hammers?

[00:00:15]>> [music] >> Well, with me is The Athletic's senior football news reporter, Matt Slater, and West Ham correspondent, Roshane Thomas, who, if you are watching on YouTube, you will see he's outside and he's trying to enjoy the sunshine. Roshane, how are you emotionally after that? That's a very good question.

[00:00:37]I don't really know how to answer that question, honestly. Still still down.

[00:00:41]West Ham being relegated to the Championship, but we'll get into it.

[00:00:44]It's definitely definitely deserved with the fact of how poor we've been all season. Yeah. The The thing that people can't see is that you're actually in a paddling pool full of tears at the moment. That's why you're outside.

[00:00:56]Um I jest, of course. Uh there'll be a lot of West Ham fans that feeling on the ground uh today on this bank holiday Monday. Um so, after 14 seasons in the Premier League, uh West Ham are going to be a Championship club. You've had a front-row seat to the season and you've documented a lot of it in your inside reads for The Athletic. It's well worth a read for everyone out there. Um and we're going to be pulling on a lot of the threads that you deal with in the article. But overall, as a season, how bad has it been? It's been an awful season, in all honesty, and my main takeaway from the season that has been a lack of fighting spirit throughout the whole season. Uh Graham Potter, a very slow start under him. I believe it was one win in the first five league games, and there was one game that really sticks out in my mind. It was the loss to Chelsea. I believe it probably was the third or second game of the season.

[00:01:46]And a young supporter ran on the pitch what tried to run on the pitch in protest.

[00:01:51]Ashworth uh took him away, right? But an an elderly fan felt outraged by that, almost to say like, "How dare you take away from this young fan. He had every right to protest. And I thought, wow, we're in August and this is how fans feel already.

[00:02:04]So, it's just been a lack of consistency and it's been a lot of tension. Because there's one cup game against Wolverhampton in August as well and a fan almost clashed with Diafra Sakho and again, in the years I've been covering West Ham, Diafra Sakho is very cool, a very cool guy and really ever loses his temper, but he lost his temper in that game and his teammates had to hold him back. So, again, this is in August and and and the signs were there that all is wasn't well at West Ham. You really sensed it, did you? The And the players were sensing it that this was off key.

[00:02:34]Yeah, massively and a lot of fans will tell you that after the opening they lost to Sunderland, many were like, yeah, this this is the year we go down.

[00:02:41]This is the year we go down cuz even in preseason the performances, I know preseason is all about fitness, but even that early you could tell the signs were there that this team just doesn't click.

[00:02:49]Matt, from your point of view that they've got 39 points and they're going down, West Ham. That's the highest tally to go down since Birmingham and Blackpool 15 years ago, but they have pretty much been in the relegation zone from the start of the season. They popped their heads above the line maybe six times over the course of the season. You can't have sympathy for them, can you? Uh, I mean, not not really.

[00:03:14]Look, three teams have got to go down, haven't they? Um, it's it's very hard to make a case that they don't deserve to be one of those three. You know, I don't have a dog in this fight. Um, it came down to to them and Spurs, didn't it? And Spurs did a bit more. I mean, it's it's you know, the table doesn't lie. Yes, I guess you can look at that historic mark, you know, he was used to say sort of gets to 40. They got pretty close.

[00:03:38]I think they're the team, ironically, that have gone down with the highest total ever. That was 42 points. Which again, I suppose tells a story, right?

[00:03:46]That this is not West Ham's first rodeo.

[00:03:49]Um, West Ham get relegated every decade or so. Uh go back to '80s, '90s, '00s. Th- This happens. So, do I have sympathy? Look, you know, I know a lot of West Ham fans.

[00:04:03]I'm from Essex. Um Yeah, you know, relegation's not nice, but lads, you're one of the three worst teams of this season.

[00:04:12]And you have the least excuses of those three.

[00:04:16]Your wage bill, quality of the players you've bought, the amount of money you've spent.

[00:04:21]So, of the you know, no, I suppose. I've I've I've now convinced myself to have less and less sympathy the longer I talk.

[00:04:27]Uh Uh do you concur, Roshan, in terms of there are no excuses? There is now a dog on your lap. That's fantastic. Yeah.

[00:04:35]You've You've literally You have got a dog in the fight and he's on your lap at the moment for [laughter] people watching on YouTube.

[00:04:42]Um but you know, Matt said that there are no excuses.

[00:04:46]When you look at the start of the season, you you mentioned it earlier on. Graham Potter, you know, four defeats in five games at the beginning of the season.

[00:04:56]When you change your manager so soon from Potter to to Nuno, you've almost ditched the entire uh preparation that you've had for the season. So, was that the the beginning of the problems, do you feel? That decision? Very much so. I I mean, even think about Graham Potter's departure. It was almost unexpected because the day before he had his press conference before the Everton game. And if you remember well, that was around the time where he was very popular on social media with the viral face swap.

[00:05:27]So, during the press conference, he was constantly asked about the viral face swap. Rarely was he asked about his future. And in the following day, he was sacked when he arrived at the training. But did did that sum up the fact that the fans weren't having him?

[00:05:41]And it reflected the fact that, you know, last season, the season before last, I know we've ended now. Last season they were not convincing. It was looking dicey for some time and the fans probably wouldn't have been that disappointed if there had been change in the summer.

[00:05:59]Ultimately, Grant put a heart to leave because the results weren't good enough.

[00:06:02]He wasn't getting the best out of the players.

[00:06:04]The issue is his replacement. Because at the time my got feeling was you appoint someone like Slaven Bilic on a contract on a short-term contract to end of the season. And then in the summer you have a massive receipt.

[00:06:17]Because my issue with the new appointment is you give him a long-term contract, which is what he's on, a 3-year deal. And let's say it doesn't go so well.

[00:06:25]You're stuck ultimately because it's it's a case where you have to keep him or does he resign?

[00:06:30]So the Grant getting rid of Grant part wasn't an issue. It's the replacement which has been the issue. Hence why West Ham are relegated now. Well, let's get to it now with Nuno Rochein because obviously he's in a very precarious position and things may be confirmed by West Ham at any point soon. We're predicting that he may well be leaving.

[00:06:51]But as it stands right now, what is the the situation?

[00:06:55]As of right now, what 20 past 10 >> [gasps] >> on this lovely Monday morning he he he's still undecided what he will do.

[00:07:03]And I and I feel I think that reflects poorly on Nuno because in the press conference uh last Friday, right? My question to him was how likely is it that you'll still be in charge next season if the club are relegated? And he said not at the time to discuss that. We'll discuss it um after the game on Sunday. And again, I was like, how likely is it you'll you'll be still be here? And he's like, we still need time to decide, not at the time to talk about it. And I think if you're the head coach, as I mentioned, you signed a 3-year contract. Again, it shows the lack of fighting spirit which should be a reflection of how West Ham are placed because what Nuno should do, right, if he wants to stay and say, "Look, I'm the head coach. Relegation is on me. I owe it to the fans, this club, to get this club back to the Premier League. Like that is my duty as head coach, but he hasn't done that. And that's why a lot of fans want Nuno to leave. And based on what fans are saying on on YouTube, social media, a lot of them would like to see Scott Parker or potentially Craig Bellamy, both of former West Ham players. And I see the logic and argument for both because they have the fighting spirit to get the club. My frustration with Nuno over the past 9 months is sometimes I wonder if he really gets what it means to be a West Ham head coach. Hm. Because there's one game it was a it was a loss to Wolves, a 3-0 loss. And and in honesty, that was the game that confirmed the relegation for West Ham because the team were absolutely poor.

[00:08:20]And after the match, Nuno didn't go to the away fans.

[00:08:23]He didn't acknowledge them one bit. And I thought that is very bad of a West Ham head coach to completely ignore the fan base. And if you look at his press conferences, again, it just lacks fighting spirit. And that's been the theme of West Ham season.

[00:08:36]And you know, maybe not the right person in the dugout. And also, and you alluded to it in your in your piece, looking back at the season, a lack of leaders in the dressing room. If if you haven't got the coach that's convincing the players or the fans, at least sometimes it can be done in the dressing room. And that seemed to be the case as well.

[00:08:56]Yeah, and and when it comes to addressing the least leadership void, that's all down to Graham Potter because in the summer he got rid of the likes of Michail Antonio, obviously West Ham's all-time leading goal scorer in the Premier League. Aaron Cresswell has been a great player over the years. Vladimir Coufal been a great servant to the club.

[00:09:13]Lukasz Fabianski of all who returned as first choice goalkeeper. These are like big characters in the dressing room. And what I mentioned of all of them in particular, also Kurt Zouma as well, the ex-club captain. But what I mainly going to focus on Vladimir Coufal, Michail Antonio, and Cresswell is they were huge huge characters behind the scenes.

[00:09:30]Someone like Michail Antonio, he was in charge of player fines. So he was always on top of holding players accountable.

[00:09:36]Aaron Cresswell, he was so important for non-playing staff. So, I'll give an example. In the build-up to the to the Conference League final, there was issues about non-playing staff getting um a flight out to to Prague.

[00:09:51]And Aaron Cresswell stepped in and got that sorted.

[00:09:53]So, this is how important he is behind the scenes. And someone like Vladimír Coufal, why he's so important is the culture him and Tomáš Souček set at that club in the training training ground. They were always Not always, but most days at the training ground on on their days off.

[00:10:08]And then, when other players start seeing that, they're going to come in on their days off. So, they were massive in terms of culture, but for whatever reason, Graham Potter got rid of him.

[00:10:16]And throughout the season, we've we've seen the lack of leaders in that team.

[00:10:19]And as I like Jarrod Bowen, I think he's a great player as far as I'm concerned, he's a West Ham legend, but everyone will tell you he's not a captain. And my mind goes back to a European game, I'm going to say maybe 3 years ago.

[00:10:31]And Jarrod Bowen was in media duty on this day, right? And at the time, he had characters like Declan Rice in the team, Mark Noble, uh Craig Dawson, uh Craig Dawson, Angelo Ogbonna. These great characters. And my question to Jarrod Bowen was, you know, there's a lot of big leaders and and big characters in the in the in the changing room. Would you consider yourself to be one of them?

[00:10:49]And his response was, you know, not really. I'm quite I'm quite quiet in the changing room. I don't really say much.

[00:10:54]And why I'm bringing that that up is leadership is something you have. I don't think it's something you can gain over time. Like, you have it or you don't have it.

[00:11:01]>> Matt, from from your point of view, you know, looking from the outside in, >> [gasps] >> where do you think the problems started? Because, you know, Roshane's just been talking about, you know, European nights. They won the Europa Conference League under under David Moyes. Uh he mentioned Declan Rice in in the mix there. And I suppose it couldn't be more symbolic, really, that, you know, West Ham are are going down, Declan Rice is having the the time of his life uh yesterday lifting the the Premier League trophy.

[00:11:29]There's been some key decisions going back quite a long time that have been potential starting points for this.

[00:11:37]Yeah, I mean look what you're saying is that was fantastic just listening to some of that cuz I you know I as I like to say that I you know I'm a neutral observer here, but it just starts to make complete sense. So this is this is a largely a footballing you know disaster.

[00:11:52]Um you know, just just really poor recruitment.

[00:11:55]Um you know, wrong managers wrong time.

[00:11:58]That that kind of leadership issue. It sounds like there was very clearly a a conscious effort to get younger to move people on um which is fine, but you've just got to do that in a measured way, haven't you? You've got to pick the right people to stay. And it it just seems like they've made a a series of of of bad calls.

[00:12:15]And look I suppose we've been talking for what, you know, 15 20 minutes and we haven't mentioned the stadium yet. So a lot of people want to talk about the stadium and it is interesting that it's sort of 10 years since they left Upton Park. And I remember going to Upton Park. I remember going to Upton Park in that final season. It was a proper old-fashioned English football cauldron.

[00:12:36]And um you know, West Ham's crowd really could be a 12th man.

[00:12:41]Um sitting in the big games used to get really like London derbies, Man United, that sort of thing would just be fantastic. So tough place to go.

[00:12:50]I don't think I I don't think I'm like announcing any amazing scoops here. The London Stadium's not that place.

[00:12:57]Never been that place.

[00:12:58]There you go.

[00:13:00]And no matter what they try and do to it, it is an athletic stadium. And there's a reason why British football teams don't want any part of athletic stadiums or old greyhound tracks or anything like that. You know, we we we want to be on top of the pitch. We want to be close to the pitch. We want the sidelines better.

[00:13:16]You know, we want the noise. It's just It's just very tough.

[00:13:20]However, West Ham made that decision.

[00:13:22]West Ham's ownership made that decision and it made complete sense for them.

[00:13:28]All right?

[00:13:29]Now, I think you could argue that it they they felt it made sense for West Ham as well.

[00:13:39]And it definitely put 20,000 on the on the match day. That's that's that's significant.

[00:13:45]It put them in a cool part of town where things were on the up.

[00:13:53]Bought into that kind of cachet from the Olympics. This whole new sort of like kind of the area of London that would, you know, previously been this sort of almost like medieval um knackers yard. You know, fantastic new train station that someone paid for, fantastic stadium that someone paid for, incredible sweetheart deal and we could do a whole podcast on that. Um they absolutely, you know, got the mayor Boris Johnson and they rinsed him, i.e. every London tax taxpayer ever since uh for the next 90-odd years. But anyway, so from that great business decision, I think there is a there there are football implications. And one is you've you've lost your 12th man.

[00:14:36]Okay? You've done something to your to your to your revenues.

[00:14:39]And this is where I was sort of hinting at in my first answer, West Ham kind of leapt forward into the Deloitte's rich list. You know, I think they're sort of 17th in the in you in the world on on revenue. They're like ninth or 10th in in in the Premier League. They're ninth or 10th from wage bill. That's kind of where they've been. They've they've set themselves up. They've gone from being a yo-yo club financially to a mid-table Premier League team.

[00:15:04]And yes, they came sixth, they came seventh. They came to the went to the semi-finals of uh Europa League. Remind me, was that 22, Rashane? They lost to Eintracht Frankfurt or 23? 22, 23, I can't remember. Then they then they win the Conference League. Okay, you've won a European trophy. Then they go go and go to the quarters. So they have three decent years in Europe. They've always had a reasonable academy.

[00:15:26]There's lots There's lots going right here.

[00:15:29]But then we have two calamitous years.

[00:15:32]I you know, where recruitment is wrong.

[00:15:35]They make managerial appointments are wrong. They're losing They're losing whatever they had in the dressing room.

[00:15:40]They sell Declan Rice. They don't reinvest. That's an old story, isn't it?

[00:15:43]We've seen that a number of number of times.

[00:15:45]And I just think once thing Once you start making a series of bad decisions, that big decision you made 10 years ago starts to come back to hurt you. And Roshane, in terms of that being illustrated and things coming home to roost for for David Sullivan, the fact that he wasn't able to see out the game in the stands.

[00:16:08]Um despite the fact that there was a victory, you know, it was meaningless.

[00:16:12]He was getting a lot of criticism from the fans. Just take us into that moment and also then what he must be thinking at this time.

[00:16:22]Yeah, it initially happened during a drinks break.

[00:16:25]Honestly, everyone turned towards the director's box mainly looking towards David Sullivan.

[00:16:30]And it was a volatile atmosphere.

[00:16:31]Honestly, I can't repeat the chance now because it was definitely some unsavory chance, but it was volatile the atmosphere. And it reached a point where ultimately he became very uncomfortable hearing it and he he vacated his seat honestly around the 84th minute.

[00:16:46]But still, fans were still chanting his name and and were chanting abuse really. And it's It's happened at every game. Every game around the 60th minute, the fans will sing sack the board, right? And there's one game that really sticks out in my mind. It was a way win against Fulham in March.

[00:17:01]And again, the fans chanted sack the board.

[00:17:04]But after that, they really went for David Sullivan and also Karen Brady. And again, I can't repeat the language they used, but just unsavory scenes once more. And they've had to deal with that the whole season. And don't get me wrong, where West Ham are, they are to blame as well, because as Matt touched on, the recruitment hasn't been good enough. They moved from Upton Park to the stadium, a world-class stadium for a world-class team is what Karen Brady said. And 10 years on from that, the club now in a second tier of English football. So, look, they definitely deserve blame for for what's happened.

[00:17:31]What next in terms of if David Sullivan will step down? I don't see that happening.

[00:17:35]He's going to increase his stake over also joint chairman Daniel Kretinsky.

[00:17:40]So, he has no intention of stepping down, David Sullivan. Matt, let's let's talk about the the financial cost, um, for West Ham. The the top-line figures for people who aren't necessarily familiar with the impact of of relegation, what does this mean for their bottom line straight up?

[00:17:58]Yeah, well, look, relegation costs clubs at least half of your revenue and and possibly a bit more, 55-60%. So, the you know, the way the first thing that happens is club like West Ham. So, last year, they came 14th, so their merit payments went down a bit. And they made about just under 240 million quid. Um, of which about 60%, I think that's 140, was TV money.

[00:18:24]So, when you're relegated, you get a parachute payment. Now, the parachute payment is fifth in the first year, uh, 55% of the basic payment. The basic payment that every club gets. So, that's the the the way the Premier League dishes out their money is everyone gets 90 million or so. And then you get, three more four three to four million. I think it's actually getting close to four million now, a place. So, the team that comes first is getting 19 times as much as the team that comes You you you understand. And then you also get 25% of the total pot is dished out on a basis of how many times you're on TV. So, for what they call facility fees.

[00:19:08]>> [sighs] >> So, 50% is shared evenly, 25% in merit rates and merit payments, 25% in how often you're on TV, and everyone's on a minimum amount of time.

[00:19:18]>> [snorts] >> And the way once you sort of divvied all that out, it's a ratio of 1 to 1.8. So, the team that comes first is getting 1.8 times as much as the team that comes first. So, that's that's how the money the Premier League dishes this money out. When you're relegated, you get 55% of that basic payment.

[00:19:34]Long story short for West Ham, that is going to cut their And also then, you know, one of the whole stories of the London Stadium was, yes, they've had these big gates. I think only Man United on average are bigger.

[00:19:46]They get a lot of tourists. It's been the place where if you're visiting London, which is why it's perfect, you know, for a club like West Ham. If you're visiting London, you want to see Premier League football, West Ham is your easiest place to get a ticket.

[00:19:59]And they've And And when they moved, they kept their tickets pretty low. They kept their season tickets pretty low, certainly compared to like their peer group Premier League London clubs.

[00:20:08]So, they're going to get, I think, various hits. Big hit on TV money.

[00:20:13]That's that's that's more than halving.

[00:20:17]Um And of course, when they were doing pretty well, they got that European money. So, the last 2 years, they were already going the wrong direction. They made a a record West Ham record 104 million pound loss last season because they came 14th, no European football.

[00:20:33]And also because their Declan money, their kind of player trading money was dropping off as well.

[00:20:38]So, all the metrics are going the wrong way before relegation. That that's that's a problem.

[00:20:45]Match day's going to be harder. As I said, tourists will drop off.

[00:20:50]And I think commercial Everyone takes a commercial hit. You know, you They'll They'll be relegation clauses in the players' contracts. There'll be relegation clauses in the sponsors' contracts. So, all three of their revenue streams will go down. The one that might go up, I think has to go up.

[00:21:03]They have no choice, is player trading cuz they've done that pretty poorly since selling Declan Rice.

[00:21:08]They're going to There's going to be a fire sale. I think there was possibly going to be a fire sale anyway, if they came 17th.

[00:21:15]There's going to be a bigger one now.

[00:21:17]So, those are the Those are the sort of There's a There's a lot of numbers there.

[00:21:22]Yeah, they got problems.

[00:21:23]Well, let's let's go into that potential fire sale then, Roshane. Who's Who's off?

[00:21:29]Who's off? So, about four to six players will will leave this summer cuz the club have to raise 150 million in in player sales.

[00:21:39]And those on the contract will be expected to to remain to help the club uh return to the Premier League at the first time of asking. So, in terms of players likely to leave this summer, the first comes to mind is Lucas Paquetá.

[00:21:50]He's been a great signing this season from Southampton. And the club expect to recoup massively on the 38 million they spent on him. So, he has interest from from Paris Saint-Germain, which we reported previously. So, he's definitely someone I could see leaving for sure.

[00:22:03]Only issue with West Ham is Southampton have a 50% sell-on clause.

[00:22:07]So, they're going to recoup quite a bit from that as well.

[00:22:09]So, it's not a case where West Ham are just trying to get 50 million. They'll probably want to get 60 million because that plays a part in in in in what they can spend in the summer. Uh Club captain Jarrod Bowen, the club hope he could he will stay. But listen, as Matt touched on, they need to they need to raise money. So, I could definitely see um West Ham entertaining a big offer for him. Uh Malick Djouf, the left back, who I think has great potential, still very raw, but a great potential. Um I expect him to leave.

[00:22:37]Uh Alphonse Areola, the goalkeeper, he could probably leave as well.

[00:22:40]Somerville, who's been an exciting winger this season, he will have interest, I'm sure, from European clubs.

[00:22:45]So, he's another that will probably leave. So, look, it's going to be a massive turnover in personnel, a massive turnover in personnel. The last time West Ham were relegated at the end of the 2010- 2011 season, about 13 players left, if I'm not mistaken.

[00:22:58]So, the club are hoping to avoid a repeat of that because it's one thing selling players but signing players is a whole entire different ball game. And as Match mentioned earlier, when they sold Declan Rice, they signed the likes of Mohammed Kudus, who's not there anymore. Edson Alvarez, who's no longer there. Rafael Santos, another name who'll probably leave this summer.

[00:23:18]So many players were sold to Debo, who's clashed with every manager he's had at West Ham. He's another player I expect to to leave in the summer. So look, the recruitment has been poor and winning a championship is even harder. So it's going to be tough for West Ham this summer.

[00:23:30]If anyone, you know, West Ham fans will be listening to this going, "Oh my word.

[00:23:33]You know, thanks very much, lads. This the sun's shining.

[00:23:36]Uh, you know, yesterday was bad enough."

[00:23:39]Let's just let's just tell the other side of the story here first.

[00:23:43]West Ham still have a massive stadium. They're still going to have a huge revenue. They're probably going to have the biggest revenue. They will have the biggest revenues in the championship next year.

[00:23:51]They have a parachute payment. They actually have two, three years of parachute payments to look forward to.

[00:23:57]So they they have an advantage and for the last So, you know, prior to Spy Gate, we could well have had, I think, the sixth or seventh year in a row of Yeah, two of the three promoted teams being parachute teams. So So, Southampton were were, you know, they obviously they had a game to win before they were booted out, but with Ipswich, they were two they were two parachute teams there. Parachute payment teams going up and that's been the case pretty much ever since COVID.

[00:24:23]Parachute payment teams have a huge advantage in the championship. Just a fact. So West Ham still have plenty going for them. Yes, if they get recruitment right for the first time in whatever it is, three, four years, yeah, they they they can definitely retool.

[00:24:36]They can sell some of these players and they can go again. And I think I mentioned it 10, 15 minutes ago, West Ham have in their kind of institutional memory going down, coming back. All right?

[00:24:48]They've done this three, four times in my lifetime alone. So they they they they have >> [snorts] >> it it's not doom and gloom. It's it's not the end of the world. They also I know this is a this is complicated.

[00:25:01]One of their owners, Daniel Kretinsky, is a is a is a billionaire, multi-billionaire.

[00:25:06]And he bought into the club at a time when there seemed to be momentum, when there seemed to be oh, hello, London Stadium, that's quite an interesting move.

[00:25:15]Uh look like West Ham had this chance along with Everton, Villa, Leicester bit of being the best of the rest. Could we break in? Could we be a disruptor?

[00:25:24]So, Kretinsky buys in. He He's He's a really interesting character. He's a Czech. You know, he owns He owns the Royal Mail now. He owns lots of coal mines. He owns lots of newspapers. He owns Sparta Prague. Um fascinating guy.

[00:25:38]Is this his moment? Because he bought 27%. He had an option to buy more, which he did which he didn't take.

[00:25:45]And he has sat there. I think he's had a lot of things going on. I think the Royal Mail was quite an interesting you know, business proposition for him.

[00:25:53]I I wonder if this is his moment. So, we have been waiting for confirmation that he has gone to 40%. He's gone from 27 to 40. Now, that has been reported, hinted at, suggested around the time that Karren Brady left. And the And the the story here is that David Sullivan's long-time partner, David Gold, who died a few years ago, he owned about 25%.

[00:26:19]That stake has been sitting there with his estate.

[00:26:22]And they've been trying to sell it. And nobody has bought it.

[00:26:26]And And that that that's Yeah, again, there's another question. Why has no one bought it?

[00:26:32]It looks like Sullivan and Kretinsky are going to buy bits of it and both go to 40. Sullivan's going to buy a tiny bit.

[00:26:39]Kretinsky's going to buy a bit more.

[00:26:40]They're going to go to 40 each. Then you've got the got the Gold estate will own about 10. There's other American investors been sitting there doing nothing called Trip Smith. He's going to own 10. So, 40 40 10 10. By and by and large.

[00:26:53]But we but we haven't seen any there's been nothing at Companies House.

[00:26:58]Is Is Kretinsky really buying shares? Or is it, I wonder, a capital raise, an equity raise, that he's the only one that's taken part in?

[00:27:11]I I I I'm starting the more the more I I'm waiting for detail, I think that's what's going on here. I think Kretinsky is putting money in that naturally takes him to 40 because the rest aren't. The rest aren't participating.

[00:27:28]And then we'll have to see what the Sullivan clan do. I think you know I I you know I wonder if if, you know, in a year's time, two years time, this isn't Kretinsky's club.

[00:27:40]And then I also wonder if it isn't Kretinsky's stadium as well.

[00:27:45]So, big changes we're expecting. But in the shorter the shorter term, Roshane, in an answer, do you feel that West Ham are going to bounce back at the first time of asking? I actually don't. I actually don't. You know what? My my biggest worry when it comes to West Ham is back-to-back relegation.

[00:28:00]It really is. I could I I I could see a world where West Ham more recently do a Luton Town. I really can. Wow. Or Leicester. And a Leicester, yeah. And Leicester's probably a more comparable example of a of a >> [gasps] >> Yeah.

[00:28:13]>> relative Premier League juggernaut, you know, circling the drain twice.

[00:28:19]But look, let's leave it there. You're sat outside, Roshane, enjoying the sunshine on the bank holiday Monday. Try and focus on that rather than the football for for the remainder of the day. And Matt's going to stay with me um to talk about Tottenham next. Thanks, Roshane. Take care.

[00:28:35]So, it was Tottenham who survived on the final day courtesy of João Palhinha's goal to beat Everton. Uh joining us to discuss all of that is our Spurs correspondent, Jack Pitt-Brooke. Uh Jack, relief, I suppose, must have just been coursing through the veins of every Tottenham fan at the uh at the stadium, or was it was it something different?

[00:28:56]Though yeah, relief, but I think also a lot of joy and positivity and unity and happiness. It was a It's bizarre, like it was It was the happiest I've seen that sta- It was one It was one of the happiest I've ever seen that stadium. Um which is quite something given that they, you know, if they conceded two goals at the end, they would've been relegated. Uh that it was so it felt like such a a positive place, everyone behind the team, everyone behind De Zerbi. And given that this season has been marked by, you know, some some of the worst performances from Tottenham teams I've ever seen, uh incredible off-field drama, the sacking of Daniel Levy in September, um just kind of chaos and carnage at points on and off the pitch. And so for them to end the season in such a happy way is bizarre. Even more bizarre is the fact they've given all this nonsense they've been through this season, they've ended up in exactly the same place they finished last season, which is a 17th place finish in the Premier League, but a a kind of strangely happy, positive vibe, everybody loves the manager, everyone loves loves the players again. And it makes you wonder like how have they how have they gone through all of this stuff this season on and off the field and ended up in exactly the same place?

[00:30:07]>> [snorts] >> Yeah, we'll come on to the the future and the next steps. Um but Matt, from from the point of view of of Spurs, you know, we were speaking about West Ham, their relationship and connection with their own stadium.

[00:30:19]For Tottenham still having to pay for that, you know, huge piece of work, they've really dodged a bullet by not going down, haven't they?

[00:30:29]They have. Uh I think the There are There are big differences between the stadiums, right? There There are huge differences.

[00:30:37]Um you know, one one one is the the the best stadium in Europe, and and the the others not. Um uh Yes, West Ham have an amazing sweetheart deal there.

[00:30:50]Um in the the rent situation is ridiculous for them. Um but Spurs yeah, they've borrowed an awful lot of money to build it, but they got it on a really good interest rate. You know, they they they they they they kind of lucked out stroke played it well. So, I don't I don't I don't have the I don't have the same as the problem. That it's not the problem. I mean, the stadium's the the part of the story. It's sort of like, you know, why aren't you better in this amazing home that was supposed to make you better?

[00:31:21]And I you know, I think it's interesting that Jack was saying that you know, yesterday felt felt great. I you know, I wasn't there. I was watching on Match of the Day, and it sounded really loud. And it and it it it looked good. It it it looked like the way it was meant to be, right? This this this sort of football cathedral that was designed to be loud and colorful.

[00:31:43]That's how it came across, and I'm think I'm thinking all right, there you go.

[00:31:46]>> [laughter] >> Your stadium's not your problem.

[00:31:49]So, well, West Ham relegation's bad for everybody, right? It's it's it's it's 50% gone straight away. May- maybe more.

[00:31:59]You know, Spurs would have had relegation clauses in all this much ship deals, too.

[00:32:06]Um you know, the the parachute payments would have would have you know, barely barely helped. And and and there's there's uncertainty off the pitch with their ownership situation. So, there there are definite there are clear parallels, right? You know, teams get relegated for good reason because things are going wrong on and off the pitch. Um but they are different, right? Every every relegated club is has sort of unique set of circumstances. And the most important thing in this part of the conversation is Tottenham Hotspur are not a relegated club.

[00:32:35]>> [snorts] >> And Jack, you you know, you spoke about the the joy, the positivity, fans thinking, "Hang on a minute, we've landed, hook or by crook, on a manager that has the potential to give us that elevation, having been circling the drain for two seasons." You know, next season, he's the guy that can actually knit a team together. But, that is also, I suppose, forgetting he is also a volatile manager. So, he does also have an implosion in him, doesn't he?

[00:33:05]Potentially, yeah. I think there's still The fact is that I think people were pretty surprised when they gave when Tottenham gave him the five-year contract because he, you know, he's generally moved jobs a bit quicker than than that in the past. But, I think he's now I think he's now in a position of huge power at that club. Like, the players worship him, the fans worship him, the club will be immensely grateful to him, even on top of the, you know, the lavish salary he's paid. The fact is he saved them hundreds of millions of pounds. You know, the investment in that in that salary in that contract has been totally justified by the fact that they don't they do not have a huge hole in their finances for next season now. So, I think that all that all means that my sense on the direction of travel in terms of recruitment is that De Zerbi will have he will have to have a huge say because he's the guy who's who means that they're they're still shopping for Premier League level players. And he was very blunt afterwards in the press conference. Having been, you know, since he took the job, he was very like, "Oh, my players are fantastic. They're all such brilliant players. I'm so happy to work with them." And then after they stayed up, he said he basically said, "I think I think he said there's 10 to 12 players he can count on." Which is which is not that many, to be honest, in a big squad. Um so, yeah, I suspect there will be change coming, and I think De Zerbi will be the one driving it. What needs to be done behind the scenes in terms of the the recruitment structure? The the the the structure above as well because there's been a huge amount of uncertainty. And as you said, huge amount of change since Daniel Levy has left. Are there clear things that that need to be, you know, arms that need to be cut off and and, you know, that it needs to be completely changed or is there enough there just to be recalibrated?

[00:34:44]Well, I think the first big question is the new sporting director. So, Tottenham have Tottenham between middle of October and the end of January, they had two sporting directors, Johan Lange and Fabio Paratici. Then Paratici left to go and run Fiorentina and so Tottenham went back down to one sporting director, but they have been trying the last few months to get back to two sporting directors again.

[00:35:06]Uh with they're running a they've been running a process to get to find somebody who will work alongside Johan Lange for this summer and next season. We reported I think a few weeks ago that Sebastian Kehl, formerly of Borussia Dortmund, was the in was the kind of leading candidate to be that new man. So, we're we're waiting to hear what exactly is going to happen there, but it clearly Tottenham have been working on an addition to the to the structure. Um I think the the question as well as as well as who will be who will be filling those roles is also what what's the budget going to be? You know, are they going to will we see more money coming in from the majority shareholder Lewis family? I suspect we will. How much of that money that comes in will be able to go on players? Not all of it will, I I don't imagine.

[00:35:52]Um and you know, Tottenham will have to keep a bit of an eye on PSR situation, which has not always been the case in the past. Uh will they continue their policy of loosening the Daniel Levy wage structure, which is allowed them to sign Conor Gallagher in January, which I think was a successful signing in the end. So, I think a lot of it's it's not just about appointments. It's also about what it what exactly is the strategy of the Lewis family, because we don't we don't that that is the one big question mark. We don't really know what the answer is yet. What what is the point of uh Uh, even even one director of football if as and I think you're absolutely right, De Zerbi's going to be making all the calls. I mean, that's just what what what is the point? I mean, we spent the a decade talking about this model.

[00:36:37]It's supposed to be the other way around.

[00:36:39]And we know it it's not at several clubs, but if but if everybody knows that's a problem, right? It's one thing kind of people kind of close to a club sort of knowing, well, actually the manager's making those calls. But if everybody knows and you're absolutely right, I think everybody does know, why are you why are you hiring another one? And also we'll just add, I probably could have added this in my sort of slightly more positive uh notes around West Ham.

[00:37:05]Of course, we're moving to squad cost.

[00:37:08]Now, PSR would be a problem for both of these clubs because that is very much a measure of how much money you are losing on a kind of three-year rolling basis.

[00:37:17]It's what we've been living with for a decade. We're now moving to something much more well, this tied to revenue.

[00:37:22]And both of these clubs, West Ham relatively they're going to be the highest revenue club in the Championship and Spurs still are a high revenue club in the Premier League.

[00:37:30]Squad cost works for them, particularly at this sort of moment in their cycle when they're like, oh god, we we've you know, we're we're bumping along the bottom here. We We've got to We've got to sort of get out of this. Squad cost definitely gives them some freedom to spend a bit more this summer. So, you know, slightly you know, a a good timing note for both these clubs.

[00:37:52]Jack, final word from you.

[00:37:54]If you were sat here last year and Tottenham had finished 17th. Uh you may have you may have been asked this question then.

[00:38:03]What did you say when someone said, oh, they're not they're not going to be back here next season in 17th. They will have learned their lessons from this season.

[00:38:12]Uh Let's fast forward now to next season.

[00:38:15]They're not going to be back here in 17th next season, are they, Jack?

[00:38:19]Well, De Zerbi were in the post-match press conference. One of the questions of De Zerbi was, "Can you promise this will never happen again?" And I'd have to I'd have to go back and check the transcript, but I'm pretty sure he didn't say, "Yes, I do promise this will never happen again." I think he actually I think he what he said was more along the lines of, "Well, the Premier League's a very, very difficult league and you have to be very competitive."

[00:38:39]Um so, I think look, a lot a lot will hinge on this summer, but I think I think the story of this season is that the bar has been raised so much in the Premier League, particularly by you know, the teams like uh well, Palace, Fulham, Sunderland, Brentford, Brighton.

[00:38:56]And that means that a kind of big club like a big club that gets complacent and makes mistakes is in trouble. Yeah, we saw this with Tottenham this year, Tottenham last year, Man United last year.

[00:39:07]Uh I mean, look look at Chelsea finishing 10th this year. So, I think that big clubs who get it wrong and who take their eye off the ball and who get their strategy wrong and their execution wrong, they're in trouble.

[00:39:19]Um I think next season I think that the I don't think it's the strongest set of promoted clubs coming up next season, which might reduce the threat of of a big team getting relegated or really sucked in like Tottenham got sucked in this year. But, I do I think that Spurs will have to it will it's not an easy fix for Spurs to get from where they are now back to you know, back to you know, when they used to routinely finish third, fourth, fifth, sixth. That is the big jump they've got to do to get from here to there and there's a lot of very, very good teams that they're going to have to leapfrog to do that.

[00:39:52]Matt, thank you very much for your time today. Jack, thank you. I look forward to your coverage on Spurs, but in particular on on England, both of you at the World Cup. Thanks to Roshane earlier on as well and thank you for for watching and for listening and we'll catch you on the next one.

[00:40:11]Thanks very much for watching this episode of The Athletic FC Podcast. You can watch or listen to us wherever you get your podcast, and don't forget to subscribe to our channel if you haven't already. And make sure you're also signed up to The Athletic [music] to read unrivaled football coverage and insight from the likes of David Ornstein, Adam Crafton, Matt Slater, and many more, including the best dedicated club reporters around.