Literature as the Emotional Moral core of society - Ram Madhav Decodes

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]What ideology is it? One may say sir it is leftish ideology because left is supposed to be concerned about poor people but why not right?

[00:00:09]So it was a center spread in our Jagrati weekly one week. So literature that is affecting the society should be your motivation. See when you dramatize it a little bit you are telling history but you are telling it in a semifictional form. It has its own uh it it's it its own attraction definitely but that is how I evolved over 30 years I was not stagnant in 1991 I learned about new things I realized that probably the interpretation that I gave to certain events and incidents was based on the level of maturity of a person who was 25 years old but what is our [music] practice today in the name of ideology that is where today a good literary person thinks twice before writing a book. I agree that it should not be kind of a vendetta. [music] It should not be like ideological kind of propaganda against any society or any group or any people like you know we in RSS have been subject subjects to lot of bias to propaganda that is wrong that I agree one very very unique thing about RSSC is that you know we have songs in RSS I myself have heard good number more than a dozen songs but we never publicize the name of the writer Guruji Gulwalka the second chief of RSS was a original thinker. He spoke on various issues, those speeches and some of his writings. I mean even in the form of letters that he used to write those letters used to have profound messaging.

[00:01:50][music] [music] >> [music] >> Hello and welcome to the final episode of season 1 of Shabdishwa.

[00:02:26]In this conversation series, we tried unearthing and curating conversations with some of those architects of our time who are building a parallel world of architecture, borrowing from the realities of this age through their words, through their photographs, through their various art forms. Today in conversation, we have somebody who has been an inspiration behind this series. Somebody who actually mentored the architecture of this conversation, Sri Ramad G. Ramad G, thank you for coming over. One of the reasons with a conversation with you is because we all know you as a public intellectual, as a politician, as somebody who talks about um an ideological position and has you know traversed that arc but little do we know about uh Ram Madhav the making of the writer person in you. you've been active um in the field of uh public affairs since a very young age since perhaps a tender age of 8 or nine and you uh if I go by uh the conversation that we had you started out a literary circle at a very tender age of st of of 9 years old and managed to get the district collector to attend one of your literary sessions at that age. So let's please uh dwell a little more on how your childhood was like and how it has made into the author writer that you are today.

[00:03:45]Okay. At the outset let me congratulate you for starting this series and successfully completing 12 episodes.

[00:03:53]These days literary discussions discourses are very rare.

[00:03:58]Everything is political. Everything is very contemporary. But literature has its very significant role in shaping the value system of a society, morals of a society. We should cherish our literary personalities. We should try and encourage real literary personal personalities who may not have any politics uh to their literature. That good work is being done through this series. I I compliment you and congratulate you for completing the uh you know first 12 episodes of it.

[00:04:35]Ideally I hesitate to talk about myself. I mean that's not how we are trained in RSS but as a reminiscence I can say that you are right. I was uh lucky to be born in a very rich literary family. My grandfather was a literary personality.

[00:04:56]He authored books in Sanskrit on Sanskrit also in Sanskrit also. My uncle was a renowned English literary personality. He was a professor in English. My mother used to write. So somehow I inherited it in my family. Uh because of the family atmosphere at a very young age we started a small circle. We named it as Prahipti.

[00:05:23]Praipti name itself is a very very profound name. So we started a circle of uh literary discussions.

[00:05:33]We were I mean the whole bunch of us were not even 10 12 years old but we used to every week we used to meet every week. It was a weekly literary circle.

[00:05:44]We used to have a setup. We used to have chairs and sit in a circle. All this was in I'm talking about the early '9s. All this was something very unique in a in a village setting in Andhra Pradesh and uh young boys not going out and playing in the playground but sitting here and discussing about subjects. We used to have a subject for every week to discuss. So that was a very interesting experience. Yes, we used to have annual events of this group. This group although was a small group but it had good influence over our friend circle they used to like us. So we used to do an annual event where parents used to come. One such annual event in 1977 or 78 I don't remember exactly uh was attended by the then district collector and uniqueness of that program was we were all 12 13 14 year old youngsters then we conducted the entire 1 and a half hour session which comprised of songs which comprised of skits drama all those things everything was in Sanskrit we trained for it we practiced for it and it was a very unique part of our activity those days. Although I used to otherwise be active in RSS. I used to be active in sports. I used to be the captain of my college of my high school cricket team. All that used to happen.

[00:07:06]But parallelly we also used to run this literary circle. We used to have essay competitions in that election competition in that circle. So that is how my interest in literature away from politics and away from other aspects of uh public life began at a very tender age. I tried to retain it. I continue to try to do that. I always love cherish good literature. I read books that are considered as good literature.

[00:07:36]uh but I must confess that as we get into a different kind of millu today uh the place of literature is somehow taking a backseat in our not just in my case but generally in our public life. I hope we bring back [clears throat] that great literary uh you know that flavor to the lives of our countrymen.

[00:07:57]Before we move forward, I would want to want you to pause a little on on what is happening with um with kids today because you're you're a public intellectual. You interact a lot with with society at large. Um who do you think are uh literary personalities that kids today should go back to and kids today should read uh and and contemporaries also that they should look out for not just inspiration but gradual making of the subconscious mind that happens at very young age.

[00:08:27]>> Literature is invariably linked to one's mother tongue.

[00:08:32]one can really enjoy and appreciate and actually understand literature majorly in his own mother tongue. Of course, if you are really very proficient in English, you can understand English literature. If you know French, you can understand French literature. But the real flavor of it, one can enjoy in one's mother tongue. So when you ask if you ask me about literary personalities and all I have to uh look up to those in my mother tongue which is Telugu again I must say that the kind of literary personalities we used to look up to as youngsters I'm afraid I don't see so many of them around uh at this juncture at this time because as I said generally literature has uh now less takers, less number of takers.

[00:09:28]As a result, those kind of very quality literature personalities are also uh today you can find them less in number.

[00:09:40]uh when I was young we used to have some very prominent names in Telugu literary uh you know circles like there used to be a very famous revolutionary poet many people used to brand him as a communist but I never saw him as a communist but he was definitely sort of a revolutionary poet uh his name was Sri Sriangam Shinasra short name was Sishi Sishi was his pen name also those days a great influence on the youngsters of the Telugu Telugu state.

[00:10:15]Uh then there were uh very prominent people like Dashar Ratanga very renowned literary person. Then there were poets who used to probably write film songs also but those film songs are not like the kind of songs that you hear sometimes these days in films. There need not be any any any literary sense to what you read in a film song these days. What you hear in a film s these days. There is a good tune. There are good words and people enjoy it. But those days it used to come with profound messaging, profound meanings and the language used to be of next level. We used to have people like Sinar and we used to have people like Arudra. And one of my own friends who rose to become a very renowned lyricist was uh one Sithar Raama Shastri.

[00:11:11]Those were the people who used to produce very good literature that used to influence all of us. I doubt if we have that kind of a that kind of a general of literary personalities. Now there are a few but I I really don't think they can be compared to those uh of my generation.

[00:11:34]So these ancestral voices, not just ancestral but these voices that you read read and carried those consciousness, you now came to the RSS and then you started uh um you started their magazine. You uh you became the editor of their magazine Jagrati the weekly magazine and then you started Vand Matra and Bharta Praya as a center stage as a centerpiece of that literary magazine.

[00:12:00]um you actually started very interesting uh curating very interesting stories which had a lot of literary element to it. What was the motive behind it?

[00:12:10]Because you were now working in a very ideological space. How did you marry these two seemingly disparit worlds or were they not disparate at all?

[00:12:20]I I mentioned about Shri Shri, one of the very influential poets of Telugu literature who influenced me personally very much at my uh when I was a young student.

[00:12:33]He had a very famous uh poem which said that kadi kavakaram this was a telu poem which meant that a tiny dog or a matchick or a piece of soap any of these things can also become the theme of your poetry. Nothing is unfit to be a part of your poetry. Only important thing is the structure.

[00:13:06]Poetry should have that structure.

[00:13:08]Content can be anything. I very strongly believe that literature is the product of the society. The society around you should be the theme for literature. So there is no ideology in that. For example, the travels of a of a old lonely woman can be a big piece of literature. Why should you link it to any ideology?

[00:13:33]Ordinarily we link it to leftist ideology. We think that if you are talking about a poor desolate woman, it must be a communist literature. Why should it be? So that was my thinking right from the beginning. So literature need not always have to side with one ideology or one politics. literature by very the very word we use sahitya something that is in the h of samaj that is sahitya what you consider as good for the society I should give a message from this for example since you mentioned about Jagrati weekly in Jagrati weekly my role as edi I was associate editor we used to have a a very senior respected elder as our editor I used to be associate editor literally I used to handle the whole magazine. Uh I used to do a center spread. Those days center spreads used to have 3,000 words. That was the size of the center spread. I did one center spread on street children, the archins who wait at the street signal, street corner signal and when the signal is uh turns red, signal turns red and vehicle stop. How they quickly run into the crowd, try and beg from the people and as the signal turns green, how they just escape from that crowd without ever getting hurt.

[00:15:03]And what is that life that they're living? No, is it what ideology is it?

[00:15:09]One may say sir it is leftish ideology because left is supposed to be concerned about poor people but why not right?

[00:15:16]So it was a center spread in our Jagriti weekly one week. So literature that is affecting the society should be your motivation. That's how I gained my inspiration from uh my contemporary literary gents those days and I tried to continue it in in the organization and I must tell you um in the RSS I never had any any issues with anybody about these things. When I tried to introduce these new things nobody said why are you bringing in these issues these not Hinduashtra per se. No, they said yes these are the issues about which society should be enlightened should be concerned of concerned about. So literature by itself should be need not necessarily be political. It can be aolitical. It need not necessarily be ideological in the sense of any rigid framework. It can be free from all those things yet it can be very meaningful any and very profound uh for the good of the society.

[00:16:15]You've written in Telugu, you've written in English, of course you know Hindi and um and Sanskrit. Uh you you are well versed in Sanskrit. So these today there's a lot of conversation and uh chatter about language linguistic divide.

[00:16:31]I don't want to ask you what your take on it is because again it's a very political question but um how does literature look at languages? How should literature today look at languages?

[00:16:43]uh I said you know you really understand the depth of the meaning of any literature which is closest to in terms of the language that you are proficient with like mostly the mother tongue >> the second comes the languages that are close to your mother tongue for all Indian languages the closest is Sanskrit Naturally Hindi being spoken largely by the countrymen maybe then Hindi then comes of course languages we brought from outside like English, French all those things. But again as I said if literature does not have any politics or ideology why should it have a language?

[00:17:37]Any good literature in any language you find it should be appreciated. Although I just add one rider to it because literature reflects the social reality.

[00:17:53]A a literature produced in a French language always reflects French reality.

[00:17:58]It need not reflect Indian reality. So you should be able to have that kind of a very very wide canvas in your mind to understand the French reality and still enjoy it or or an English reality and still enjoy it. Uh but now English has become a universal language. You can write very good literary pieces about uh uh your own reality Indian reality in English also. U so that very question that whether uh language has anything to do with literature yes and no yes in the sense that one appreciates literature in one's mother tongue >> very profoundly very easily but literature can reflect that great uh that that flavor one can enjoy in any language >> and what are the Sanskrit texts that uh that have hold huge literary value to you. Oh, as a as a young child, young means I would say at at the age of 3, four, I was taught Amarakosham.

[00:19:02]I mean something uh probably not many people know that such a book existed, such a literary Sanskrit literary work existed.

[00:19:11]From then I have been taught by my grandfather essentially but through education I have also had Sanskrit as my uh those days it was third language. I used to have Sanskrit third language. So I had good access to Sanskrit literature as a young person at that stage whatever much we could read we read but many important Sanskrit texts like abigyana shakuntalam was taught to us in Telu in our mother time. So I understand Abugan Shakunlam's original text >> although it was translated and taught to I don't have to read an English version of it today to know what was there in that book. So some of those things and of course otherwise Bhagat Gita, Rama and Mahapara these things obviously you learn either from Sanskrit originals are there very near your mother and translations but I can say that I had very good exposure to Sanskrit texts uh right from my childhood as I said fortunately because I came uh from a very literary family and Sanskrit was one of our important languages in our household.

[00:20:22]you've written 10 to 12 books in uh Telugu and uh one of the things I was surprised to learn was that you actually wrote a historical novel across 52 uh episodes or serals as as it was called then we you know weekly uh serialized conversation around a very famous Marata revolutionary. Can you please dwell a little more on that? A what was the influence? B why did you think it was needed? and see because today there's a whole conversation around history excavating our uh those uh um you know architects of the past who have not been given importance u all this while so how do you connect all of all of this today and do you see a future of historical novel in India in what way do you see it >> history for any society is very important there will be debates over history let them be there No harm in debating what constitutes history and what is mythology and how you are distorting history or you are saying true history.

[00:21:27]These are debates that will go on.

[00:21:29]Nevertheless, history has an important role. We must turn to various uh periods and chapters of our history. We should we should keep turning to them. In that sense I see a lot of importance uh to history writing in uh contemporary literature. We should come out with good books on our historical episodes like you know for example uh the the women uh leaders of Indian society.

[00:22:06]How much literature uh is available today?

[00:22:10]There are so many great women who were rulers of this country, who were poets, who were who led bacti movement in this country. But very little literature is available. The literature is not historical per se.

[00:22:25]>> There is no historical narrative about it. There is some kind of a romantic narrative about some personality whether it is Mirabay or somebody. Where is history? Because we are not investing enough on you know digging out the history aspect of it. Whereas look at the west how meticulously they record history.

[00:22:46]You are not sure about your epics today whether to call them historical texts or to call them a mythology or an just a story. And I saw somebody even claiming that Chaneka never existed. one of the prominent guys he was saying the reason being you never focused on actually getting into the historical aspect of those personalities you were happy with the romantic aspect of it so history is very important I read uh books that gives so much detail about 3rd century 2nd century BCE wars the Greeks fought the Romans fought historical accounts of it where are those accounts in our country I mean if you take Bhagat Gita what is the next war you talk about Ashoka in between what happened in this country very there is literature I'm not saying there's nothing existing there is literature about Gupta period but this is all mo mostly Christian era literature >> so we need to invest in our history even in the last 2 year history also so much is yet to be explored properly. I always had lot of interest in that history. Um I had the opportunity as you know as editing a magazine gives you a lot of freedom. You are the boss. So I used that opportunity to dig into the life of one naval hero who actually had led the Marata Navy. Maratas used to have very strong navy. That navy fought against the Dutch. They fought against the British and they created you know some of these forts those forts that you see on the Conan coast for naval forts strong naval forts they built Janjira is a very strong fort so that history especially Marata naval history must be a matter of proud pride for all of us.

[00:24:52]So I tried to study the life of one such very famous naval uh hero of the Marata empire called Kanoji Angre and Kanojang is a well-known name also in Marata history and I serialized his life into a 52part print serial people serial means people only know about TV serals but in our times we used to have serals in print also and one story taught or narrated in 50 52 episodes 52 episodes means one full year. So I ran it in one full year and uh it was a very interesting novel.

[00:25:26]You see when you dramatize it a little bit you are telling history but you are telling it in a semi-fictional form it has its own uh it's it's its own attraction definitely but it gives the author a little bit of freedom to interpret you know I created a conversation between Kano Jangra and his wife in that conversation I try to touch subjects like untouchability you are talking about some yes 18th century 17th century 18th century history but there you are introducing the conversation about whether touchable, untouchable, this divide is right or not and all those things. So that literary freedom one can take uh but uh yeah that is how literature history also can be you know probably brought back into life >> and uh this was noticed. You also became the sensor board member in uh in you know the then Telugu uh film world and also created a lot of ripples. Then how do you look at the architecture of cinema pontificating on light uh sorry meditating on life and literature of course it does the same. How does the visual and the written medium how do they operate and what is their point of convergence and divergence? Of course visual medium is also nowadays especially in the digital age we are living in this era and in this age visual medium is again a very very potent medium uh to convey good messages to the society when we got into things like sensor board. Yes I became a member of the sensor board in 1998 uh in the capacity of the editor of a magazine there. So I was appointed by those days government of India used to appoint regional boards also >> even now I think that practice continues. So I was a member of the Telugu regional sensor board. As members of sensor board you are expected to watch every movie very carefully and in effect some cuts or suggest some cuts where you think it's not good for the viewership. Uh those things we were supposed to do. I must confess here that I was by then an RSS parak of some 15 16 years standing. So when you are ideologically motivated you start looking at things from a particular prism. So I used to look at movies also from a from a very staunchly ideological prism or probably I would say quote unquote moralistic prism and I used to have a lot of objections but fortunately for the producers and all there was not one member who would sensor it there would be a panel of four people so even if one member raises objections the other three say no no no it's okay it always went by majority >> but looking back I I always nowadays feel that was a little unnecessarily idealistic at that time. Movies have their own way of depicting things. So, but it was an experience. I had the opportunity to watch some movies very rich in their messaging. I mean, the real literary value of those movies is incomparable. But I have seen lousy movies also. But nevertheless visual medium definitely is a very effective medium historically in our society not just in our society what's opera in the west or in eastern Chinese forms what's our nity nata >> yes >> our our theater our drama these are visual medium not necessarily through a digital uh device but uh in the visual form we used to convey and most of our great epics used to be depicted through these visual mediums and our classical arts were all visual arts uh the janapada forms of art. So all those have very important place again I am coming back to it again all these things are finding taking a back seat now uh movies of course have a big role today also and after the explosion of this uh digital age you find visual medium to be a very effective medium but how do you use that medium to send those profound literary messages is something very important >> uh Ramad I must say that you have been one of those re intellectually very honest um individuals to take a position that I might have been harsh at that point in time is a is a is an act of bravery especially in times um especially in times like this when which politician do you know of who has come publicly to say I might have taken certain decisions from an ideological prison very few people have the honesty to say so >> but later if you are uh influenced by real true literature you should be honest to yourself. You know, I can tell you since you raised it, I must confess one more thing here. In 1991, I did one uh book in Telugu. I did several books in Telugu. One of them was about the partition story of India.

[00:30:43]I was influenced by some writings by senior RS leaders only and lot of other literature that I I had read as a young man. When I wrote that, I was very harsh on Gandhi in that book. This was 1991.

[00:31:00]In 2021, 30 years later, I did a book again on the same theme.

[00:31:07]Partitioned freedom is the name of the book. It's in English now. In that I mentioned it my views. Uh if you were a reader of my 1991 book and if you read this book today, you may find some difference in my views. But that is how I evolved over 30 years. I was not stagnant in 1991. I learned about new things. I realized that probably the interpretation that I gave to certain events and incidents was based on the level of maturity of a person who was 25 years old. Uh but today at 50 if I still stick to that, I'm doing I'm dishonest about my own uh intellect, my own thinking ability. So a literary person should have that uh honesty to say what is right uh what is right as per his understanding contemporary understanding of the reality. I tell you I have read so many books which were honest confessions you know I have read a book by one Mr. Mohit S.

[00:32:14]Moisian was one of those first communist leaders. Remember 1940s those communist leaders.

[00:32:21]>> Yes.

[00:32:22]>> Who actually opposed India's freedom.

[00:32:27]They said that Mao should come and liberate India from Jalan Neu. I mean Neu was the prime minister and these people were writing that Mau should come. He belonged to that chenner. But he wrote his autobiography in early 2000s. He said that yes those days we were carried away by that propaganda but today looking back we believe that that was a totally wrong step we took we did not appreciate the freedom at the time this is the intellectual honesty a literary person should have it take if you are in politics you may have to support many things that you do but uh for a literary person you should always be honest yourself >> which is why um despite all the books that are that are displayed here in the frame I don't want to have any conversation on them because we all know you as a public intellectual. These books come at a certain point in time with certain contexts uh context but there are issues which I want in this conversation I want to take up issues which are universal. For instance, we all talk about the ideological divide that's there in India today between the left versus uh what is loosely called as right. I don't I don't really know if India really has a right ecosystem but um who are the um what are the writings from the Indian non-left point of view that you would want people especially youngsters to read before they have a full-fledged ideological political conversation on what is going on? A difficult question because uh um as a as a as a as an avid reader I right from my childhood I used to read books that has become a habit with me. I never looked at the color of the author color in this ideological color of the Thank you for saying not not [laughter] skin color ideological color that's why I said somebody who was very well regarded as a communist writer Shishri could influence me not every poem of his maybe I disagreed with some of his poems maybe but uh I did see a lot of merit in some many of those things so I can't say that you read this book don't read this book.

[00:34:33]That's why I don't do I never follow that principle. I generally choose a topic. I suggest if anybody is interested in reading books, I only suggest that choose a topic but read all all different versions of it. If a communist is approaching uh that subject, how is he approaching it? If a so-called Hindutwadi is approaching it, how is he approaching it? read everything and then uh judge by yourself what arguments uh have more merit or less merit. Uh no for example I am just reading a book war and religion authored by an American written by an American author. A beautiful uh narrative about uh the rise of uh medieval religions seemitic religions how they rose and how their rise as religion was know inevitably linked to war.

[00:35:32]How war and religion coexisted.

[00:35:35]Not an easy topic to write. You see, you can offend anybody.

[00:35:40]But when I read that book, I don't think any Muslim will be offended or any Christian will be offended by that narrative.

[00:35:48]Are you open to reading those books? But are you open to such kind of a narrative about your own religion? If somebody writes, I give you an example.

[00:35:59]What are our women heroes?

[00:36:02]Or if you can't call them heroes, you call them heroins if you want to call them. Although those words sometimes go beyond you know gender. Uh take the case of Dopati, fiercely independent woman. But if I portray her as a fiercely independent woman, are you ready to accept it or you say that you are destroying Hinduism?

[00:36:26]There can be ways to look at a personality.

[00:36:31]Someone whom even Bishma respected.

[00:36:35]Bishma by age, by experience, by knowledge was very superior to Dopai.

[00:36:41]But he always had very high respect for her. So those personalities are you ready to look at them from a different perspective? That is the beauty of literature. But the moment you find a different narrative, you get offended.

[00:36:56]We have to overcome that. We have to understand that literature has its own beauty. It's it own message. Take it or don't take it. But don't question uh the narrative itself. We need to build that kind of a a kind of a resilient attitude in our society. We are getting too much divided on ideological lines. We simply reject things. I know there was a book in Telugu on Dropi.

[00:37:23]such a wonderful literary work. It was I mean I was so impressed by the literary work but one one aspect of that book became very controversial because in that book the author claimed that you generally portray Dropadi and Krishna as brother and sister that's in popular uh narrative but he said that no in entire Mahabharata Dropati never called Krishna Bhai she always called Saka friend they were friends they were good friends now that became a big controversy In Andra Pradesh there were protests against how dare you call them friends you are you know damaging the reputation are damaging the value system and all. So we are now looking we are getting very uh very that is where the problem of ideology comes. See ideology by very definition means a closed frame of ideas. You must be idealistic need not be ideological.

[00:38:23]Ideologies are all closed set of rules, set of ideas. Why should you be a prisoner of any closed set of ideas? Why can't you be open? But that is Hinduism.

[00:38:35]Hinduism is always for that openness.

[00:38:40]Let noble thoughts come from all sides of the world. But what is our practice today in the name of ideologies? That is where today a good literary person thinks twice before writing a book because he's afraid that how society reacts to it. Why should he be?

[00:38:58]I think we have to learn so so much from the western uh literature about it. So much of critical analysis happens about Christianity so much.

[00:39:09]But not every Christian is uh taking out a weapon and going after the author.

[00:39:15]There is criticism. You take it in your stride. See if it is rational.

[00:39:22]Are we having that kind of a mindset in our country? No. Huh? I agree that it should not be kind of a vendetta. It should not be like ideological kind of propaganda against any society or any group or any people like you know we in RSS have been subject subjects to lot of bias to propaganda that is wrong that I agree but today if I say that I am RSS nobody should criticize me is it possible I'm in public life in a public life every person is subject to scrutiny that scrutiny if it is done through literature we should have tolerance to accept Can you suggest works by some RSS Prarak poems or short stories, novels, anything in the literary domain that should that youngsters today should go back to?

[00:40:15]>> I can't say about poems because you know one very very unique thing about RSSC is that you know we have songs in RSS. I myself have heard good number more than a dozen songs but >> we never publicize the name of the writer in SA hundreds of songs are sung s publishes uh a small book of all its songs that are sung in SA ecosystem but you won't find the name of the author of that song that is how S's culture is it has to be anonymous you are doing a service to your mother that is motherland you don't have to proclaim that I did So even if I I said that I have done a few songs but I don't have to below every song I should be we don't write like that. Uh so who are those people whose songs are sung? I can't really say I mean who authored those beautiful songs although I have myself got inspired by so many such wonderful songs in RSS. Uh but there are a few very original thinkers in RSS. For example, Guruji Gulwalker, the second chief of RSS was a original thinker. He spoke on various issues. Those speeches and some of his writings I mean even in the form of letters that he used to write those letters used to have profound messaging again very messaging. There was no ideology in it that you can brand is RSS ideology is propagating. No, that was RSS ideology dharmic messaging. So he is one person whose writings continue to give you a direction. Although every writing again I'm saying every writing has its contemporary uh relevance also beyond that sometimes those views may not be very relevant today.

[00:42:12]Some of those things you should be ready uh to say that and understand that.

[00:42:17]Okay. Something he said in 1960s need not be relevant in 2020s. But his most of his views are very very profoundly uh enjoyable and influencing.

[00:42:29]Then we used to have dutapi whose works one can read even to this day. Uh how he explained the role of a kakarta karaga not just about RSS karakarta. Anybody who wants to devote uh his uh time, energy, life to a cause, what kind of a mindset he should develop? One can read from the beautiful book. It's called about about karakarta.

[00:42:54]Uh he has several other books. Then we had one very prominent thinker in the sanctuar called Dindadup Jaya. Although uh his literary life was small because at a time when he was planning to give a new uh thought perspective to the to the country in the form of integral humanism his life was taken away. He died in a mysterious under mysterious circumstances in an accident. Uh but he produced some valuable works not not very vast literature but some valuable works. So some of those people in RSS continue to continue to give a good direction to today's youngsters. Then many contemporary RSS leaders probably they write less but their speeches if they are compiled they are uh definitely very useful. We recently came out with a book called Shakatu Nation. Shakatu nation is uh the compilation of important speeches of the RSS leadership you can say from the horse's mouth. The RSS leadership from Dr. the founder to Mahmud Bhagwat the current chief and his colleagues like Datraos thei general secretary and others what have they said about the organization its vision its mission its ideology if you want to call it that way and all that I think some of those 30 40 speeches and a few interviews are definitely a useful reading material for today's youngsters to understand this uh India's most influential organization what goes behind in in the thinking of this organization one can understand from this book also.

[00:44:37]>> Um so you've written songs, you've written a serial, you have of course written non-fiction and you have also delved a little bit on the fictional uh dramatic version of the narrative. How do you choose your form? So if today you have to say write about what's happening on if Ram Madhav today you have to talk about the street urgence on in Delhi, which form would you choose?

[00:45:00]I am uh I I have some skill in writing pros only. Now having spent so many years in political life and RSS life somehow I lost touch with that uh poetry part of it. I would say the last song that I authored was I think in early 2000s last Telugu song which I authored and I gave to our SA network in Andhra Pradesh. But after that somehow I lost in touch because life becames very different in a way last 8 to 10 years very political. that takes away your literary uh you know that that that emotion part of it but I try and do enjoy literature of course that poetry the literature part of it non non uh political writings and all I do enjoy but whether I can still do a song again it is a difficult task for me now as of in fact my Andra colleagues sometimes ask me can't you write a good song again I say now life has changed I have to go back into a different group to do that but it's little challenging.

[00:46:11]So today if I choose anything I choose only pros. I probably write a good article about it probably write a good essay about it for maybe open magazine or something. But I try to do that. I know I did a I did a piece on uh um the rise of uh uh like Hindu revival that has happened over last three centuries 18 19th and 20th centuries. I did a 3,000 4,000word piece for open magazine.

[00:46:40]um about a year ago. So occasionally I try to do that but today most of my time is consumed in my weekly columns and you know other writings and other things.

[00:46:49]>> While you said that I remembered I think Atal GI also had to say a similar thing about his poetry poetic journey. So what really is politics that it somehow it uh smoons that poetic edge and makes you into a different person. I I asked this question because I firmly believe that literature is also political to a great extent. Not talking about politics for instance like we did it in this series in Shabbd the Vishwa. Not talking about politics is also a political act. But the the the rough and tumble of the political world what does it do to a person's conscience and somebody who has a literary frame of mind who has a literary bent of mind. How do they preserve that part being in being in public life? Look, literature widens your horizons, mental horizons, the more you are seeped in uh the literary world. The more wider your horizon becomes, that way you will be a definitely a better human being. From someone who is completely cut off from the vast vast wealth of uh this literature just confined to some ideological text that you read. If you're confined to that from you to someone who has that vast openness uh uh to literary world there is definitely a qualitative change and since you mentioned about atal gi he is a giant in that one of those personalities who retained that literary flavor till the end of his life I said you know last 20 years I've lost my touch with literature but not at gi retained it until the end of his life So that made him what he was.

[00:48:35]Why Atal Gi is today adored by millions across. I mean one need not be a BJP person to love him or respect him. The reason is that the way that literary spirit shaped him as a human being as a person as a leader the way he looked at things as a leader. I had the good fortune of working with him or working probably I say working under him for some years but uh I had such great reverence respect for him not just me I tell you uh Muti Muhammad say who formed a government with BJP in 2015 which was a very unique government we formed very unusual type of arrangement we made between BJP and PDP. It had its own criticisms and all uh that apart the only request she made to us was apart besides of course calling on prime minister which was a normal routine formal thing that anyway would happen.

[00:49:38]He said he wanted to see Waj Pi but Waji was not even in a position to talk. Probably he was in a position in 2015 to recognize people but he was not in a position to talk. He was very weak.

[00:49:51]He was bedridden and all that. He was not in good health. In fact, he passed away after 3 years. But he said no, I don't want him to talk to me.

[00:50:01]But his dion is required.

[00:50:04]So we took him. I mean he met Atal G nodded when he said that you know he arranged he made this arrangement. So that is the kind of person he became.

[00:50:15]Atal gi it's not a commentary on any others.

[00:50:18]Don't take it one should not take it otherwise that why atalgi not that's not the way issue issue is that atalg became a person because he had that vast that that his horizon was very vast very large very wide so I think no uh literature should not have politics but politics always should have literature in it literary spirit should always guide every politician we have to read.

[00:50:49]We have to you know learn more. We have to understand the wider society, wider world that helps in shaping what you are.

[00:51:00]>> Thank you Ramad G. Thank you not just for your time today but thank you for uh really shaping a generation of youngsters today who have who retain a touch with the human side despite all the professional public work that most of us do. Thank you so much for being here. One uh you know important thing that I that always inspired me was one uh one uh message of Swami Viveananda.

[00:51:29]Vivean used to say that close your lips utter no words of rejection or condemnation but let your heart be open.

[00:51:42]Now that is what is essential for today's generation.

[00:51:47]Keep the mind spaces, heart spaces open.

[00:51:51]You don't have to immediately be value judging everything judgmentally about everything. Something as left, something as right, something as anti-Hindu, something as anti-Muslim. This need not always be the discourse.

[00:52:04]Let us keep the heart open. Let's absorb things and of course judge by your own understanding and maturity. That is what one can derive by exposing oneself to the literature. In that sense, literature I think is very important for any society, much more for today's society. Thank you.

[00:52:25]>> Um, thank you for watching. Do subscribe to the channel. Do spread this in your network. We'll be back with another season. Perhaps a change in the format or perhaps in a change in the way in which we are approaching things. But stay tuned. Thank you.