Full interview with Andrew Rein, president of Citizens Budget Commission | The Point 4.26.26

Ajouté : 2026-05-05

[00:00:00]Andrew Run is president of the Citizens Budget Commission. Andrew, there is so much to talk about, but first I'd like to talk to you about threats that have been made by the head of Citadel, Ken Griffin, to possibly not go through with a renovation of a building on on Park Avenue that's supposed to bring thousands of jobs and maybe is a six billion dollar project, all because the mayor has made him the poster boy for the the petite terror attacks. How do you feel about that? And do you think it's possible that the mayor's um politics are getting in the way of the city's bottom line?

[00:00:36]>> You know, I can't speak to, you know, this individual issue, but I think it's a reminder that New York City has to be welcoming, has to be competitive for not only people, which is our human capital.

[00:00:48]We're the best in the world. But for businesses, and there are a lot of different factors. There's a value proposition that every business has on whether to be here. It's always expensive. It's always hard. We have the best human capital in the world. So what is it? How are we going to run government both operationally and be friendly and policy-wise so that we can create the jobs here? That's what this reminds me of.

[00:01:08]>> But see, so the question really becomes you have that situation plus, you know, questions about whether the mayor will invest in the um the base that has to be put over the Hudson Yards, the MTA yards so that they can expand Hudson Yards. So there's like two economic development projects that could bring not only thousands and thousands of jobs to New York City, but also increase its economic base because you bring people here who actually pay taxes. So is this like a life lesson for the mayor that he has to be more uh friendly to business?

[00:01:44]>> You know, I think he his eyes are wide open. He, you know, wanted the job. He has the job. I think these things are reminders. You know, a snowstorm is a reminder that you have to take care of the operation, shovel the sidewalks.

[00:01:55]This is a reminder. You have to think about those business activities. But we also have to, you know, sharpen your pencils and make every decision smartly.

[00:02:03]That doesn't mean you give away money, you know, that's that's not creating jobs. You use every dollar of the people's money wisely to create jobs.

[00:02:10]So, we'll see what the right answer is for Hudson Yards for him, and we'll see what he says hopefully transparently about it. But, it is a reminder we need to make sure our taxes are competitive and our services are great. Do you think he made a mistake in going after Ken Griffin?

[00:02:25]>> You know, I think um we'll see how it it plays out. I think this blows up in in the public's eye and people will look at it in different ways. I think the most important thing is the reminder that the city has to be competitive and he needs a job creation strategy as well as an economic equity strategy which he's focused on. The reason I'm asking these questions is I know that the Citizens Budget Commission just had a report that talks about um a lot of things including out migration and other things, but you also talk about job creation and that it's important for the city's bottom line to be creating jobs, not driving jobs and people away. And that's why I was concerned about Hudson Yards and Citadel because that goes against exactly what you found in your report.

[00:03:11]>> Exactly. I mean we can come back to the out migration domestic out migration of people but looking at jobs in our competitiveness NYC dashboard what we've seen is 2025 was incredibly stagnant in jobs in the city it was good listen our labor force participation the portion of people working is better than national average for the first time a tick up in finance and information jobs those are good jobs good wages but most industries it was down in 25 and post pandemic our job growth has been about public about publicly funded healthare, home care, jobs that we can't afford that are lower wage. We have to have a stable economy built on a solid jobs foundation. We're not there now.

[00:03:48]>> Yeah. But the thing is, if we're trying to if we're being if we seem like we're an anti- business climate, right, >> businesses are going to go away and that affects the bottom line of people who actually pay taxes to pay for the social services we want to increase.

[00:04:03]>> No, you're exactly right. publicly traded headquarters. The number declined in New York City between 20 and 25 by 41 increased in Florida and Texas 74 and 69. We're not doing what we need to do to attract those business and create those jobs. And part of it is just the basics, safe streets, clean streets, good schools for services because of course they want to employ people who want to be here. But we do have to be businessfriendly. So when we're opening a business and the permitting and all those relationships and regulatory environments and we need to reduce the regulation but also make it easier to work with government so that businesses want to be here.

[00:04:38]>> So I want to talk to you about out >> migration >> because your report says that a lot of people have left and new immigration is not increasing >> right. How does that affect the bottom line and how does that affect the amount of money that a mayor or anybody else will have to spend to do the kind of social programs he wants to do?

[00:05:00]>> The reality is last year 114,000 more people left New York City for other places in the country than came here.

[00:05:06]That's a 20% increase from the year before. The first increase since the beginning troubling too.

[00:05:11]>> Yes, it's very troubling. And I think it should be troubling to our leaders who have to make those decisions because at the same time federal policy made international immigration, our growth engine plummet. We have to focus more on that. And when we did our resident survey, we found declines across the income spectrum and we saw out migration across the income spectrum, declines in quality of life and assessment of of city services. We need to get those basics.

[00:05:37]>> But there's also a decl a decline in taxable income. These are the these are numbers from your report.

[00:05:42]>> They you saw $23 billion of taxable income go to other parts of New York, >> right?

[00:05:48]>> 14 billion went to Florida, $2 billion went to Texas. This is no bueno.

[00:05:54]>> Yes. No. Over over five years as people go to Palm Beach, wealthier people go to Palm Beach, more people go to Palm Beach, and we're losing income. And even when people move to Westchester, we don't have a commuter tax. Remember years ago when we first met, we had a commuter tax. We don't have a commuter tax. People move to Westchester, they don't pay city taxes. drains our tax base. If our share of the nation's millionaires had stayed constant for the last 15 years, we'd have $3 billion more in taxes today. And we're looking for money.

[00:06:19]>> So, you're saying don't drive the bill millionaires out.

[00:06:22]>> You know, we have to get the basis and the millionaires will stay here. But what is it about the capital of capital where we doubled our number of millionaires? Yes. But the the nation tripled, Florida quadrupled. What is it about New York? We've got to be drilling down and making it welcoming for all different New Yorkers. Andrew, we're going to have to leave it right there for now, but our conversations continue right after the show on our streaming channel, CBS News New York.

[00:06:54]We are back with Andrew Ryan. I I have to continue our conversation. You know, there's questions about the fact whether the city actually has taken it to heart, the out migration and the fact that businesses may not feel welcome. What's the lesson for the mayor? What does the mayor have to do? Because this is so important to the city's bottom line.

[00:07:17]>> I think one thing we have to do is on the tax front. You know, we have a big budget problem. His solution is to raise taxes. We our budget problem is a spending problem. We need to focus our spending on things that work and stop spending on things that don't work and make government more efficient.

[00:07:32]>> Well, but let's talk about that because one of the things in your report says that over half the city schools have enrollments of 400 students or less. Why do that? Why not combine the schools and save money?

[00:07:45]>> You are exactly right. We That's just putting a finer point on smaller schools. 205 schools have less than 200 kids. Inefficient. and you're not offering the kids the the the range range of services. We lost in our public schools 158,000 students in traditional public schools over 10 years while charter schools went up 63,000.

[00:08:06]>> What is that saying that parents are choosing? It's great that they have choice, but what is it saying about the quality of the traditional public schools? We've got to focus on quality and we need to run schools in an efficient manner so we can serve kids.

[00:08:17]Yeah, but those numbers would also indicate that parents are leaving New York City entirely because the numbers going to charter schools and the numbers leaving don't match.

[00:08:26]>> There was a decline overall of 109,000 students overall in New York City over the 10 years.

[00:08:32]>> So what does the mayor have to do to keep people from leaving? I mean clearly every time somebody leaves it affects the tax base >> there there is no question what we need to do is improve the quality of public schools but we also need to when we did our resident survey homeless services housing services mental health services we have a service quality problem it's rated much worse than before the pandemic schools of course important public safety of course important but all those services if we do that and get the basics right New York's natural advantages are phenomenal it's the value proposition.

[00:09:07]>> All right. So, the mayor is a man who's never met a tax he didn't like and now he's got a a peditary tax from the governor, but he says that's not enough.

[00:09:16]He says he wants to also tax the rich, people who make a million dollars or more. Is this the kind of policy that's going to end up better for the city's bottom line or not so good for the city's bottom line? We think that there is both no need to raise taxes and it is it harms our competitiveness. As as we talked about before, our share of the nation's millionaires are shrinking and we have the top marginal personal income tax rate in the country, 14.774%.

[00:09:43]Now, people make decisions, you know, for a variety of reasons, but taxes are one of those pieces. And this debate that says everyone's going to leave tomorrow and no one's ever going to leave. Both sides, it's ridiculous. The reality is we're chipping away at our foundation and we need to keep people here.

[00:09:58]>> So basically what you're saying is that these ideas may not um result in wholesale people leaving right away, but it chips away in like little by little by little by little.

[00:10:08]>> We see a shrinking share of the nation's millionaires. We see a 20% increase in domestic out domestic out migration.

[00:10:14]Those are bad signs. And we see a stagnant job market and housing costs >> so so high. So there are all these reasons that are making it hard to be here. We need to flip those around. He's focused on housing. He's focused on some parts of affordability. Needs to be more widespread.

[00:10:29]>> But you also seem to think that he has to cut spending.

[00:10:32]>> We believe both he should cut spending to balance the budget and he can. So think about it.

[00:10:38]>> How does he cut spending and at the same time say I'm not going to cut services?

[00:10:42]>> We have increased our spending$16 billion faster than more than inflation over the last 10 years. 16 billion.

[00:10:49]Again, how does he cut spending and not cut services? He says he doesn't want to cut services.

[00:10:54]>> He goes to the big picture items where spending is not helping the class size mandate. We've reduced class sizes where it matters in high need schools and lower grades. But if he gets rid of the rest of mandate, 1.2 billion. If he fixes procurement, 700 million. If he deals with those shrinking schools, 400 million. Then you'll go into some of these schools.

[00:11:11]>> We would combine some of the small schools. Yes. But also what happens is we increase school budgets when enrollment goes up in those schools, but we don't decrease them when they go down. So not only are they small, but they're funded as if they're big.

[00:11:21]>> Yeah. But see, here you get to be >> it's hard.

[00:11:24]>> Third rail for people who are members of the city council who don't want their schools cut because here's the thing. If you combine schools, you reduce the size of the workforce and the uft doesn't want to see fewer teachers, fewer guidance counselors, fewer pair of professionals, etc. So the unions are going to say don't do that.

[00:11:43]>> There are always challenges to making hard choices, but they're smart in in the long run because we need jobs. We need people. We need a thriving economy and we need fiscal stability, which is like a concept for people like it's not a concept. The bottom line is when the economy is good, we have the money for good services. When the economy is bad and we don't because we haven't been managed well, who suffers?

[00:12:03]>> So the mayor has had one spending plan.

[00:12:06]The city council has had another spending plan. The city council says you don't have to raise taxes. They agree with you and that you need there's all kinds of efficiencies.

[00:12:16]Is is the truth somewhere in the middle or is >> so so here it's a very refreshing to see the council say protect the recessionary reserves which they said and I think >> you said there's not enough reserves.

[00:12:27]>> There's not enough and they want he wanted to take nine almost a billion dollars of them and they're saying don't take that billion. We can come back to reserves but we need more. and they're saying, "Let's close the budget gap through spending." Now, listen, they have a a number of efficiencies and it's really they're looking at spending that we wouldn't be spending anyway. So, they've gone through a fine tooth comb and the mayor's challenged some of some of those estimates. Are they right? The reality is we should challenge all the estimates.

[00:12:52]>> Are their estimates right?

[00:12:53]>> Many of them are right. I think some of them are are overstated. But also, I see that the mayor has too low a target, 1.7 billion over two years. He should triple that target. And the reality is he has only offered 14% so far of his too low target. Hopefully at the end of next week we'll we'll see um what his rest of his proposal is. And neither side has said here are programs that aren't serving New Yorkers we should cut and here's how we're going to make it more efficient. You need political will. Um you need the the managerial skill and you need frankly the time to turn this battleship around.

[00:13:27]>> So what do you think about the idea who's been floating about not paying money into the pension funds to postpone it? The reality is there was a smart choice made around 13 years ago. We were too optimistic on our returns. So they changed the amount they expected on returns. And if you do that, you need more money in there. But doing that all at once was tough. So they have a 20-year repayment plan.

[00:13:48]>> There's no proposal that we've seen. But assuming the proposal stretches out the payment, we're just increasing what we in finance call intergenerational inequity. What human beings call is why in 2040 am I paying the obligation for my fifth grade teacher when I had them my pension obligation for my fifth grade teacher in 2008? It is not fair.

[00:14:07]>> So but what if he does it? What what effect will that have on the unions and people getting pensions?

[00:14:13]>> Listen, I think our pensions are secure.

[00:14:16]The union should be concerned because this kind of gimmickry taken to extreme has really hurt people. I think those pensions are secure. I think the real problem is it's not fair to make people pay for someone else's bills. That is an equity problem that we should not um so he has been very transparent and honest in his budget. He deserved kudos for that. He should continue that and say no more gimmicks, no more no more fakery.

[00:14:38]Let's have an honest budget.

[00:14:39]>> So taking the pension funds and the rainy day funds, that's those are gimmicks.

[00:14:44]>> The rainy day fund I I wouldn't say it's a gimmick. I would say it's shortsighted. We over two years might lose 10 to 15 billion in revenue in a recession. We only have two billion in our rainy day fund. He's talking about using half of it. We need those money to protect New Yorkers. When we have a recession, it's not like the feds are going to come in and waltz and save us.

[00:15:04]We need that money in our pocket just like you would in your household. If things go bad and you're unemployed, you need that money to protect New Yorkers.

[00:15:10]Well, you saw in our other part of our show that I was having a conversation with Adrian Adams about cooking and you told me that you also make stuffing and you also have a certain tradition at Thanksgiving and I was taken by it. So, I want you to tell me about it.

[00:15:28]>> I I think for around 20 years we fry a turkey.

[00:15:30]>> You fry turkey.

[00:15:31]>> I fry a turkey.

[00:15:32]>> People say that's dangerous.

[00:15:34]>> It is dangerous. But if you're smart, you make sure you drain your turkey. You do it outside. You put the turkey in slowly. You rub it three and a half minutes a pound. It's wonderful.

[00:15:44]>> But do you have a special recipe for for what you rub it with?

[00:15:48]>> You know, I make up my own Cajun rub every year. I studied cooking when I was younger. It was the most It was the actually the best thing to learn because then you can eat well all the time and you can do something for other people.

[00:15:58]Cajun rub, you do it right. It's popular. You know, I will say one year I didn't do it. My mother, she was she was so mad at me. She's like, "No, you always have to fry the turkey." So, here's the deal. I'm coming to your house this year for Thanksgiving. No, just kidding. I have to go.

[00:16:12]>> You're welcome if you'd like to.

[00:16:13]>> No, I'm going to but I'm going to get your recipe. Anyway, on that note, thank you for joining me and thank you at home for joining us as well. We're all going to go to Andrew's house for Thanksgiving.

[00:16:23]>> Thank you.