HERtalk EP 4 | Natural Beauty ; No Make-Up & Society Expectations

追加: 2026-05-31

[00:00:19]Hi everyone, my name is Wuendi and welcome back to yet another episode of Hair Talk. Um, it's her talk is something that has to do with womanhood.

[00:00:29]will just be discussing. So, um, today I think we have a guest. She's going to have to introduce herself.

[00:00:35]>> Yeah.

[00:00:36]>> Hi everyone. Uh, my name is Ster. I'm from the Netherlands and I've been living in Cape Town for a year and a half now, I think.

[00:00:44]>> Wow, that's nice.

[00:00:45]>> With my boyfriend here.

[00:00:46]>> Um, hi guys. It's good to be back again.

[00:00:48]My name is Lisangi and it's nice to have a guest on studio. Like, it's like refreshing a new face and all that. Um, how was the week for you guys?

[00:00:59]Um, what did I get up to? I don't think I did much this week. I just had some sort of anxiety this week. I'm not even sure why.

[00:01:09]>> I think it was just one of those days where I don't feel like myself, >> but I've been trying to figure out, but you know, what's going on? I Yeah, I like I just can't unpack by what's going on. But I I am feeling something. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. Yeah. By everything.

[00:01:25]>> It happens, man. It's I think it's routine. Yeah, I think so.

[00:01:32]>> Like just going with things day by day.

[00:01:33]>> Yeah, it looks like there's something that's stressing me out. Yeah. Do you track your cycle? Because sometimes your cycle can also >> Do you think so?

[00:01:41]>> Yeah, I really feel the difference when I'm getting my period like a week before I suddenly feel more anxious.

[00:01:46]>> Maybe overwhelmed.

[00:01:48]>> I am. Yo, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm not even sure why.

[00:01:51]>> I'm so sorry you feel that way, man.

[00:01:52]It's not nice.

[00:01:53]>> It's not nice. Yeah. How was your week, Sarah?

[00:01:56]>> Yeah, good. working a lot. Um, >> so that's nice. Um, I'm in my sourdough era. I'm trying to bake a bread.

[00:02:05]>> It's not going well. It's hard. Yeah, baking is hard.

[00:02:08]>> It's so hard. And every time I keep trying, but nah, >> it's so bad.

[00:02:13]>> That's nice though. It's like a new hobby to try on. Like keeps you going. I actually also had a very productive week. I've also had like um for the past few months like I've been dealing with a lot with my mental issues. I've been going through a lot like a lot. But this week was different. Yeah, this week was different. It was very productive. I got good news. I like I >> I felt the the feel the need to leave again and it's really nice. Yeah.

[00:02:37]Anyway, >> I'm so happy for you.

[00:02:39]>> Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I have a lot of good things happening for me at the moment. Um so um on our topics today we all about beauty standards and all that and I've shared before that um I am going to put you guys in an interview about this because I don't have much of an opinion. I'm not I'm not really into beauty. I'm not a person that like idolizes beauty and all that. So like >> it's not a thing that's big in my life and all that. So >> but it's still an opinion then.

[00:03:09]>> It is still an opinion and and I'm full of opinions. Hey, I'll have something to say. Um so the main topic today is do women groom themselves for society or what? So do you guys think women are under pressure to always look put together?

[00:03:28]I'd like to say yes. Um okay. Um before we go on to that one, I I'd first like us to first unpack um what beauty means for each of us. Okay.

[00:03:42]you get like I think beauty means um different things for all of us >> for some people um they will see it beauty as a physical um physical appearance >> um but for me I think when I measure it beauty I measure it beauty with intellectual capacity >> is that's really good when I was doing my research actually I actually had a thing on that also yeah cuz um I can't just meet someone and then start saying oh who and who is beautiful sometimes when I see physical appearance I'll say okay they look good but what about their intellectual capacity what's going on on the inside it's like comes from the within >> yes someone can turn ugly as well when you meet them and they're pretty and then you get to know handsome yeah handsome saying I cannot just meet someone and then just say oh they're beautiful I first need to go deeper.

[00:04:42]>> So me having to go deeper, it means that I'm going to have to learn >> the person, get to know the person so that I know how they are, how they are living.

[00:04:52]>> So >> So for you basically like beauty is not about the physical appearance. No, it comes from within the person.

[00:04:58]>> From within. Yes.

[00:04:59]>> That's really like take on it.

[00:05:02]>> What do you think?

[00:05:04]>> No, I 100% agree. And I think what I said like if you get to know someone and someone then turns out not as nice you're like but also the other way around like when you get to know someone like you see them and they become more beautiful every day as you fall in love or like your parents how you look at them like you think oh they're so beautiful or people say that with their children for example they're like oh I have the most beautiful child and you're like yeah they're cute >> but so it all has to do with love I think too.

[00:05:34]>> Exactly. Yes. That's a point. So, so going back to um to answer your question, Lisa, you said, what was your question again? Are women >> do women feel the need to always be put together? Like to always put together like to always be together when it comes to beauty?

[00:05:51]>> And do women think you think women are under pressure to always be put? Yes, I think they do because >> going back to what I just said in most cases in the society when it comes to beauty, beauty is not measured within the inside. Do you get like most people measure beauty by how the person looks from the outside? So, um going back to answer I'm trying to answer your question.

[00:06:20]No, it's okay.

[00:06:20]>> Yeah. So beauty as I've said beauty is measured from the from the outside not from the inside. So the women especially women we do get a lot of pressure because we do get that pressure from the society. If maybe um you're going to go out but if there were no judgments from the society then we do get pressure. We do get pressure because we are getting a judgments from the society to look put together.

[00:06:52]I'm also those things of saying oh I need to do my lashes because when I didn't do my lashes I don't I I I don't look the same. I look different. I don't think that's because when you feel like you look different but I think it's because the society has labeled you to be different when you didn't do your lashes when you didn't do your hair. You want somebody look >> Yes. Yes. You want to look apart for the society. So yeah.

[00:07:17]>> No, I agree. I think so 100%. We have to not always perform but like we see things online and we see our amongst our friends or people on the street and that's beauty but also clothes for example fashion trends like you have to follow them and it's really like hard and expensive as well like for us like girls it's way like more expensive >> more expensive for the for the girls and >> a lot of pressure. Yeah. I I think society does put women under pressure to always look put together. You see my outfit last week. I looked clean, but I was wearing jeans and just >> I'm also wearing Crocs inspired by the way. That's good because I'm one person that doesn't care about society. I really don't care about society. Like like I don't subcome to societal expectations ever. I do what I want. So like one of the comments like when I posted our pictures from last week someone commented sole I'm like what I'm the most stylish person everyone knows this what are you talking about and it was a fake account but I think it was just the pressure of you have to always look put you always have to look stylish and all that and and some like people don't care like what you're going through last week I was going through a lot like it took me a lot to make an appearance here And I'm clean. I not I didn't come here smelling bad or whatever.

[00:08:38]>> Yes, you are clean.

[00:08:39]>> And you want to tell me, do I not care about how I look? I do not care about how I look to you. Like, so yeah, women are under pressure.

[00:08:48]>> Yeah. Just to add on what you just said.

[00:08:50]Now, I think um women are really under pressure because there was a comment I'm not going to mention, but now it was from who going to who there was a comment online um asking Bana. So we had we had someone on studio last week, right? So the question was asking is this who and who? And the comment said yes. And the other person replied, oh they don't look the same.

[00:09:15]And then the other one said what do you mean? Like um if you go this person replied if you go on their pictures on social media you will see they look more pretty.

[00:09:25]>> And then the other person said that's because they are not wearing makeup. So what does that mean for us? It means do I have to wear makeup everyday to look the same? That's the society. I should have seen that.

[00:09:37]>> It's very problematic. It is. Now I'm going to be expected to put makeup every day and then if I don't put makeup people will say I don't look the same.

[00:09:46]>> I had it in my workplace.

[00:09:47]>> I'm going to have that pressure. I have to I have to look put I have to exactly because there was this other there was a chat on social media. Um this girl there was a sad story unfortunately behind the whole appearance but then there was a ch by feminist when women appear looking this way why is it like an issue now this girl went to her graduation with um Barbie doll yes I still remember makeup and just wearing a simple dress and then the whole social media was saddened by the situation ah let's donate and whatever and then it was a chat about why is it that when a black woman appear naturally seemed as if they are disadvantaged. Why is it a thing now? Are we expected to make appearance with makeup with on?

[00:10:33]>> Yeah. But it goes back to those social media standards.

[00:10:36]>> Was it an expectation that we must meet as like women in general actually? But then um there was a before I like I didn't even get into the discourse because before I actually saw the discourse about the thing I saw the story on the university page that like she actually does come from a disadvantage background but there is an expectation of women to appear a certain way and I'm I'm starting to think is that even men expect women to be like to have like these dull bodies and whatever and most of the time men don't even care about their bodies. They don't fat about you fat. Like what do you mean you the fat one? Like you So it's like a a thing now.

[00:11:17]>> Yeah. Exactly. Even with with appearance when it comes to men, a man can just go on a date like a t-shirt, a soccer t-shirt and a pair of pants. No effort.

[00:11:28]>> No effort at all and it will be okay to the society. But if I do that, just rock up on a date wearing Crocs and whatever.

[00:11:37]>> It's a problem. Yeah, I also had that with that makeup thing you said. So, um >> I always like when I work in the office, I put makeup on. Every time I didn't put makeup on, >> like I would then be a bit more white.

[00:11:53]Like I would just be my natural self.

[00:11:55]People would always ask me, "Are you ill? Are you okay? You're looking ill."

[00:12:00]And always men always. And I'm like, "That's so rude. Like you make me so nuts. I expect you to put makeup every day. And if you don't put makeup, you're not yourself.

[00:12:10]>> Yeah.

[00:12:12]>> And that's not how it should be.

[00:12:13]>> No.

[00:12:14]>> Yeah. I think we've actually like covered all the in this one chat.

[00:12:18]>> We covered all the the lend. Okay. On my next um at what point do you think beauty standards become toxic for women?

[00:12:27]>> Um I think the part that we just uncovered now like expecting women to put makeup >> every day that's very toxic. It also goes back to that thing of um society is not expecting women to have like skin. They just want like if if then you are deemed as ugly >> and then now you'll be forced to be someone that puts makeup every day because >> the society is going to say you're not beautiful.

[00:13:00]>> Yeah. That's a that's just another double standard >> for me.

[00:13:04]>> What do you think? I think when it really becomes toxic, I think it already is, but it's basically the moment you start commenting on someone else's appearance, that's toxic. So, they can be like your body, the way you look, the way your hair, like the way you dress, like everyone should just be themselves.

[00:13:21]And if they want to have or if they have that type of body, that's completely fine. So, the moment you start speaking about it or gossiping to other people like, "Oh, look, look at her." And the sad thing is it's not just men. Women do it amongst them each other as well.

[00:13:39]>> And that's already toxic. But I think it's mostly women, man. I don't like I don't know. But I I feel like it's most of women.

[00:13:46]>> Like it's mostly women that are judged for their bodies because you'd find that a man is big and it's okay for the man to be big.

[00:13:54]>> But the moment it's a woman, you will be told you need to start gym, you need to start doing this, you need to start eating like that and that. But if it's a man, it's okay.

[00:14:02]>> That's fine. Yeah. Sure. But um so as I was saying, I think it becomes toxic when we like idolize the people that you see on social media, we have like people that we idolize like influencers like big influencers like Instagram and those people some of them get like BBLs and all that which is good like it's a choice to do that. But then like the the disadvantaged people they think like they can get it with going with to the gym and all that and like some of those bodies like are kind of unrealistic and they like have health concerns because sometimes the BBLs go wrong and all that like you see training videos of of the BBL being rotten and all that. So I think like it gets toxic at that point that like we want to look a certain way and then we go like to these extreme measures and then it goes wrong. It puts your health in like >> an issue. And like as I was saying, like also um as a person that watches Korean dramas, when you watch the Koreans, like they look young, you'd find that a person is 40 years old, but they look like 16 and you'll be like, "What the hell?" But when you actually research into it, like there's a lot like it's very toxic. Like the expectation, the beauty standards there are very like very high and there's a lot that they actually go through to maintain those look. They they do face injections. They do like all these type of things that are like scary when you think about it.

[00:15:28]And like they're very much into surgeries like face like plastic surgeries and all that. And they have the best best doctors there. So I think like it it becomes toxic when it gets to that when you're like succumbing like trying to look a certain way even if you don't want but you have to do it like because it's a thing that is like us with makeup and all that. So yeah that's where I was going the same.

[00:15:49]>> Yeah. And now I wanted to know do you also think it is like a global thing or do you think per per country or continent is different as well?

[00:15:56]>> It's different. Yeah, it does vary.

[00:15:58]>> You said like the Korean thing is we're maybe different than maybe here in South Africa.

[00:16:02]>> I think there they have an obsession of looking young. That's the thing. We don't have we do like >> what do you think the obsession is here?

[00:16:12]The obstition is here that the we have an issue you see on Facebook the 1k people they always wonder why you look younger than the 2000s. They always like ah you guys look old and and like I look like I'm 60 I look 21 and all that and it's just kind of like >> nah. So we do have that here but I think it's a thing that we're working on. It's not that much of an exception like our people don't go like to surgeries and all that to like >> look young. Is Botox a thing or like fillers or I know in the Netherlands everyone does do their Botox like wrinkle here is like >> shame on you like everyone does the Botox like looking young everyone is scared of being old is >> everyone wants to look young >> like no one wants to embrace being old yeah I I don't think it's that much of a thing here I think here they more we I think I think black people if I may say they're more into bodies man and stuff we're more into like having the perfect like um what's that thing? What's that body type? Yeah, that body type.

[00:17:16]>> I know it in Dutch, but >> yeah, they more into that. Like we're more into that. Like um people get criticized on that like if you don't have a fat butt and all that. Like we don't like we're not into wrinkles and stuff like that.

[00:17:28]>> So I I think it does vary like from country to country.

[00:17:33]>> Yeah.

[00:17:34]>> Yeah. So I think um there's also something that I saw on social media which I'm not sure how to feel about. I think now you might have seen like I'm not sure how to feel about it. There was a trend on social media where people use chat ch um where someone will put a their picture maybe they are light-kinned they will put their picture and then they will use chat to edit and make themselves look darker and everyone and then they would caption it um everyone keeps saying I would be ugly if I was I was dark skinned look at me I'm not sure how to feel about that I think >> it does have colorism under.

[00:18:15]>> It is Yes, it does.

[00:18:16]>> That's why it was >> It does. I think it's it's sort of >> It's very problematic.

[00:18:20]>> It is. It is.

[00:18:22]>> Yeah. But in Europe, like in like general, like I lived in the UK and I lived in in the Netherlands, like everyone wants to look darker. Like we used the fake tan like fake tan for sure because >> no no one wants to be like super white.

[00:18:38]So use fake tan. You spray it. is like you turn a bit orange if you don't forget it like the in between your fingers is all orange like you have like weird things on your face because >> do you know why though they want to look darker >> we think it's prettier I think well to be fair I'm sure it also varies to country because in South Africa I think most people want to look most people want to look white >> not necessarily white lighter >> lighter yes that's the word lighter so I'm not even sure why why is No, you know what? Because like people like the the kids that grow up very dark skinned, they get bullied for being >> they get bullied a lot.

[00:19:18]>> Yeah. I think it's not just about kids also. I think a lot of dark people get bullied a lot. They do get ugly.

[00:19:26]>> Yes. The moment you are not lightkinned, you'll be labeled as ugly.

[00:19:30]>> Yeah. And people would say like some people would say like um if you look at a dark person, don't just give them one look.

[00:19:37]>> Look at them for a moment. then you will say they are beautiful which is wrong.

[00:19:42]>> It's so wrong because you'll never say that with the lightkinned person. You'll never say that but it's always with the darkkinned people.

[00:19:50]>> Yeah. It's crazy because when you think about it now like I'm like I'm very perplexed by what you're saying like the the white people want to look dark and then >> the dark people want to look white.

[00:19:59]>> Yeah. But it just means wherever you are it's never good enough. The grass is always greener somewhere else. Like it's not good. I know from Asia as well that what they want to be like white there as well because it says that you don't work outside. So and that shows sort of wealth meaning that is beauty.

[00:20:20]>> Yes. I also think Yazi, you know, I I I'm not sure if it's with our parents or what, but I feel like a lot of people don't really have confidence when it comes to their beauty >> because you will meet one person that's going to tell you you you you don't look beautiful and suddenly you will work with that and then you will start putting makeup every day. You will start changing hairstyles every week because you want to label yourself as beautiful because one person said you're not beautiful. For me, I try by all means to make sure that I boost my kids confidence because I don't want them in the long run to feel like they are not beautiful. I need them to know every day that my mom said I'm beautiful. My mom has been saying I'm beautiful. It does start when they get outside and being told ugly. They know about >> they know you're lying. That's not true.

[00:21:07]Because my mom tells me every day, oh, I am beautiful. I do that with both my kids. I have two beautiful baby girls. I tell them every day, but you are beautiful. You are enough. you have perfect skin. So even if they go outside and you even if you tell even if goes outside, you will never tell Emy but she's not beautiful because she knows but my mom told me I'm beautiful. She tells me everything I'm beautiful. Yeah.

[00:21:31]So I think it start at home man.

[00:21:33]>> Are you a bit scared of their future then two girls like are you a bit worried for like oh later that they have to go through maybe similar things you have gone through?

[00:21:41]>> They they definitely will. They definitely will. But for me, for me, I think I I I didn't really grow up in a home where you get told by you are beautiful, where you get kisses every day, where you see. But now I'm trying to do it with my kids. I need to make sure I instill it in their minds.

[00:21:57]>> Your parents, they can even bully you.

[00:21:59]Like >> Exactly.

[00:22:00]>> They outline the bad things on you, but ah you have you have eyes, you know.

[00:22:05]>> With me, I even Yes. I I once um I once shared that on social media that I do not like it when someone comments on my child's picture. Maybe they will say but oh you have long feet oh you have a big head I do not want that because I also do not do it with my kids.

[00:22:19]>> Do people comment on your children?

[00:22:21]>> People do that and they are so comfortable doing that.

[00:22:24]>> Social media is set to they say kids are ugly.

[00:22:27]>> They say kids are ugly. They do say kids are the ghetto.

[00:22:30]>> Yes. You cannot tell a 2-year-old they ugly. I mean what kind of a human being are you? And who decides that as well?

[00:22:37]Like who again the standards who is saying that like oh wow that's bad.

[00:22:42]>> Yeah it's very bad it's standards.

[00:22:45]>> Anyway coming to wrapping up the show.

[00:22:47]Um what does femininity mean to you personally as a woman?

[00:22:55]For me I think for me it's just feeling at ease like just being comfortable but also accepting the times you don't feel comfortable. Again coming maybe back to my cycle your cycle I can really feel the difference with that as well but accepting that days you have you feel good and then >> like maybe just being kind to yourself >> and kind to each other and kind to other girls as well. I think we can really like still learn from that and be kind to each other and if we are all nice to each other like how amazing is that like then >> yeah I think that's >> yeah I think uh I don't have much to say on that but I think um I would say it's an activist for human right for women rights someone that can stand still and speak for women someone that's for women >> um I think for me it would like come like as in owning up my body and emotions, not being apologetic about them and all that. I think that's what I think it's things that we actually never think about. What is femininity mean to me and all that. Um anyway, I think that comes to the end of the show. Um, I'm just trying to look for something good.

[00:24:20]Um, I don't find it. I can find it. Can you wrap up?

[00:24:25]>> What were you looking for?

[00:24:26]>> I'm looking for the last like the segments like what to say to the followers and all that. You need to advertise them the I don't >> I've never done it before.

[00:24:44]>> He says each of you share one message of reminder for women listening.

[00:24:48]>> Yeah, that's what I'm looking for.

[00:24:49]>> Oh, okay.

[00:24:54]>> One message of or reminder for women listening.

[00:24:57]>> N the her truth segment. Um, one thing I had to unlearn about beauty of femininity is >> to unlearn >> about beauty of femininity.

[00:25:13]>> I think I'll start. I think for me, I just had to know like what you were saying, beauty is not always about the physical appearance. Yeah.

[00:25:23]>> It's like what's within you. And I don't always have to look put together and I don't have to do certain things. Like one of the things that we've had to unlearn is shaving. That shaving is cleaningness. Cleanliness. There's nothing dirty about having pubic hair and all that. That's one of the biggest things that we've actually had to unlearn because you taught that when you raise your armpits and there's air, there's like hair, it's it's dirty. It's not a nice look. But then like it's a natural look. Like you don't have to shave. So that's one of the things that I've actually had to unlearn.

[00:25:57]>> Yeah, I agree. The same thing. I think another thing I am embracing is not wearing a bra.

[00:26:03]>> Yeah, >> I'm not doing it. I've not been doing it for years now. Love that.

[00:26:07]>> Like there is no bra. I am fine with it.

[00:26:11]And I feel really comfortable. And sometimes people do comment or they look a bit and I'm like that's your problem.

[00:26:16]I feel comfortable with it.

[00:26:17]>> Yeah, that's that's an actually like a really >> I think you guys have covered everything.

[00:26:23]Um anyway guys, coming to the end of the show. Um we have new merc on the populace market um website. We have winter clothes. Please do check out that. And thank you so much for listening and being with us today. I hope you enjoyed.

[00:26:38]>> Bye. Thank you.