Land Tokenization and how it could redefine the future of wealth generation in Africa

Añadido: 2026-05-26

[00:00:07]Hello guys, welcome to another edition of Level Up podcast. Thank you so much.

[00:00:11]You have been awesome in terms of subscribing and of course just giving us the lowdown in regards to some of the content you'd like to see on our shows.

[00:00:20]Well, today on the program we have an interesting guest and this is Naftali Mangi. A man who has continued to defy odds and cut a niche in the land sector in Kenya. But really, what's his story?

[00:00:34]How did he end up in that line of specializing?

[00:00:38]We'll be having an interesting chat with him. Plus, what does the future look like? Kenyans are known to be lovers of buying land. Cabaroti plot kabla there are so many hashtags everywhere in regards to land issues in the country plus there are those who have lost their hard earned income to people who have been uh very unscrupulous. So we'll be discussing this in the light of opportunities for investment on the continent. Well welcome to the show ni.

[00:01:11]>> Thank you so much Santana.

[00:01:13]>> Good to see you. It's been a minute.

[00:01:15]It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. It's been a minute.

[00:01:17]>> All right.

[00:01:18]>> Well, uh, welcome to Level Up podcast and I just want to begin by you introducing yourself to our audience.

[00:01:24]Who is Napali Mangi? How did you end up running one of the most successful land buying companies in Kenya?

[00:01:31]>> U, my name is Nafali Mongi. I am a father and a husband and um I'm a trained engineer. Okay. So, I started from engineering. I worked in the financial sector for 9 years. I was a banker for 9 years. Um then started into uh real estates and we wanted to do the basics of real estate which is land a very sensitive industry.

[00:01:59]We have done this for the last 10 years and uh we are thinking actually it's a time for the for us to take this to the next level.

[00:02:07]>> All right.

[00:02:08]>> Engineering land I don't see the connection. There's no connection.

[00:02:13]There's no connection. Actually, after high school, >> I chose to do engineering uh out of um I was not advised. Well, >> so I did that.

[00:02:24]>> What did you specialize in?

[00:02:26]>> Electrical engineering.

[00:02:27]>> Okay. And it's because my cousin >> Yeah.

[00:02:30]>> is an electrical engineer.

[00:02:32]>> But later uh thank God I got an opportunity to work in the financial sector.

[00:02:38]>> Yeah.

[00:02:39]>> Uh when I was in the bank, I also did mortgages. That is where I got a taste of properties.

[00:02:44]>> Um so I feel like my four years um four five years in compass was wasted.

[00:02:51]>> Uhhuh.

[00:02:51]>> Yeah. But the beauty is you're now living a life where and you made a choice that you're happy with down the line.

[00:03:00]>> Exactly. Because I am doing what I love.

[00:03:03]Um I love conceptualizing things. I mean we looking at what is the future of of property ownership in this country. Uh look at what has happened in the last um two to three years. Kenyans have deliberately moved from uh uh properties, land investments into what is called money market funds.

[00:03:27]Um but again we have leaned back to realize that so many forces will affect money market funds and what we call uh soft investments. I mean the war that is happening in in in Iran um has really uh spoken to Kenyans that you know what the basic investment in this part of the global south >> still has to be our land and when you look at it when Kenyans are running towards money market funds and all and it's okay it's good to diversify >> this is the only place that the Chinese come and they make double digits uh profits This is the only place that the Somali come and and make double digits profits because we are still prime. We are a developing economy. So somehow our economy runs around land.

[00:04:24]>> Mhm.

[00:04:25]>> No matter what business idea you have, if you present it to a bank, they will still need that security.

[00:04:32]>> Uh we have not grown to finance ideas. So it's like we still finance land.

[00:04:39]>> I have an idea. I want to start a business but the bank will ask me bring me a title deed.

[00:04:44]>> Okay. So that that that tells you that our economy runs around land. All right.

[00:04:49]>> So I'm I'm in a space I'm in a very exciting space.

[00:04:51]>> Uh we have served 10,000 about 10,100 clients from the time we started. Um and and it's deeper than just a plot.

[00:05:02]>> No, it's it's deeper.

[00:05:03]>> All right.

[00:05:04]>> Land is quite an emotive issue. very motive >> in Kenya, very motive >> and of course in the world because land is an appreciating asset and when you look at the asset classes >> land has delivered some of the best returns in the Kenyan market. I was just looking through the house property index which shows that uh land prices have been uh inching upwards. Um we've also seen a lot of demand for uh apartments and uh some also say that the land conversation is all but a bubble. Will this bubble bust at some point?

[00:05:39]>> The land conversation is not a bubble.

[00:05:42]The the housing converation is a bubble.

[00:05:47]Okay, I look at it this way. Um, for the first time last year, prices for apartments fell by 7%. That's unheard of. There's there's an over supply.

[00:06:01]>> Mhm.

[00:06:01]>> Um, then what is happening is the the the economy is not doing very well. So people do not have buying power and here we have the Chinese um with forest and forest of apartments.

[00:06:17]>> Um that bubble look at the government.

[00:06:21]The government has become a developer with with what they're calling affordable housing.

[00:06:24]>> Yeah.

[00:06:25]>> But the question is who is going to occupy all these houses? And that takes us back to land because I we did 146 apartments >> and I can tell you that particular space is is is um is is a very interesting space and and and and quite um capital intensive and no wonder it's only foreigners who can borrow from their countries >> at single digits uh that can afford to run the housing business. So that has left so many Kenyans >> relying on the land business. Um what we got right during um um the promulgation of our constitution is devolution because what devolution did >> it made so many places that were not prime become prime. If you go to Migori um a place that was nothing before, land is appreciating in those areas and and those people actually you can only do apartments in Nairobi only Nairobi in this country and make money. try to do in any other town, you'll burn your fingers. And so all those other towns, the periphererals, um go to Kisumu, go to Nakuru, uh where we have a heavy uh footprint, those places people still want to develop their own houses.

[00:07:51]>> Yeah, that is why the prices of land is going up as the prices of apartments are going down. All right. So the market is sort of correcting itself at if you look at the equation but running a highop as the CEO. I also just want to understand what's behind the name highop.

[00:08:10]>> Um yeah uh high soap properties the name of the name highop we got it from the book of psalms 51:7.

[00:08:18]>> Mhm.

[00:08:18]>> Um I'm a Christian by choice. So the bible says wash me with high soap and I shall be clean. That is where I derived the name and I thought it's a beautiful name and and made it a business.

[00:08:30]>> All right. So when was your first transaction when you personally bought land and uh when was this how did it make you feel and where did you get the urge and the appetite to now start linking up other Kenyans to be able to own property? Um I owned my first piece of land when I was 24. That that by then I was I was a banker and uh it was a very exciting journey because uh owning the land building that is what gave me the impetance to quit formal formal employment and get into a business. Um in 2017 we started our first project on Kangundo road that was on uh 30 acres 30 acre piece of land. The beauty with land selling it is a low entry business. So you can use it for capital as you try to get into the other complex structures. Um and I'll come back to your question. For example, the future of property ownership in this country is tokenization >> and uh parliament has passed the tokenization law. We will come to that.

[00:09:40]So when we bought the land um we were able to turn it around because by then remember what was happening in 2017 we were in um an electionering period >> and um the market was not doing very well. Luckily we were able to turn it up very well. We partnered with cooperative bank and that is what gave us the impetance to do so many. We have done about 30 >> other projects from that time.

[00:10:06]>> All right.

[00:10:06]>> Yeah.

[00:10:06]>> And uh >> issued about uh 7,000 title deeds. All right. And looking at the direction land ownership is taking, you've talked about a very important issue, tokenization.

[00:10:17]This is already happening in other markets like in the UAE, in Dubai.

[00:10:21]Tokenization is a thing.

[00:10:23]>> It has even gone to the level where it's applicable >> in different settings. M uh our biggest tragedy in this part of um uh what we call the global south is that we only have one channel of uh finance, one channel of raising capital that is banks and no wonder banks the banking sector in any growing economy like Kenya will always make money. Yeah.

[00:10:57]uh four actually five out of the first 10 biggest companies in this country are banks because uh banks banks are cartel and I'm saying that because I was >> that's a strong word >> good now tokenization is coming to get a way can I raise money without the bank being involved okay there They're a positive cartel. I'm not saying that in a negative way.

[00:11:28]>> Um >> because banks are known as intermediaries, financial intermediaries who are enablers.

[00:11:35]>> They are enablers but sometimes they are very predatory. Very predatory. Um if you don't get it very well in finance in in an economy then nobody will grow. I mean how do you look at our inflation currently is at 7%.

[00:11:49]>> So if I get a loan of uh at 17%. So what business will I will I will I run >> to make money and still beat inflation?

[00:12:02]Okay. So um interest rates how the economy is working. So tokenization is coming to sort such things because um the Middle East especially the Dubai the Dubai and and the and the Qatars grew because of tokenizing their their real estate. Tokenizing is where can a whole pool of people own this particular one property so that the developers of these properties will not have to borrow so much money. In Kenya they say if you borrow to construct houses for sale that's a recipe for auctions. That's it's a recipe for auctioneers because the rate is close to 20%. Yes, we'll be told it's 17%. Then um there's processing fee, there's insurance, there's legal >> comes to about 20%. So the antidote is coming coming up with the technologies that will help so many Kenyans and and thank God for blockchain technology. So the future of property ownership in this country is tokenization. I want to own a token of a certain apartment, >> not the whole of that apartment. That's one. Number two, um, consumer behavior.

[00:13:17]The people who will run the economy in the next 10, 15 years are the current Gen Z's. And the current Gen Z's don't speak to permanence. They are not they are not going they're not about to buy uh one acre and do a 20 million. No, they want to own one in Auki, another one in Akuru.

[00:13:38]And so can I can I make money in my apartment in my house in Nuki when I'm in my house in in Indiana. So it is also it is also being uh fueled >> Mhm.

[00:13:50]>> by client behavior.

[00:13:52]>> All right. And talk to me about some trends you're seeing in property acquisition. Um where are the sweet spots? Um are we having also demand by the diaspora?

[00:14:04]Um the sweetest sports in Kenya currently um the 47 county headquarters.

[00:14:11]What became the 4 uh we have got 47 counties the headquarters that's where that's where people are making better margins. Why? Why? Because um the county governments are under crazy pressure.

[00:14:27]>> Yeah.

[00:14:28]>> Uh to do what we call horizontal infrastructure.

[00:14:31]>> Mhm. the roads, the rail, the water and and that is that is what that is where real estate follows. Uh number two, the county headquarters with a 15% allocation of national budget every year >> which is growing currently at 4.2 trillion. What what it means is that one county headquarter will have close to a thousand employees that were not there initially.

[00:15:00]You know, initially I would go to I would be born and schooled in Bingo, but I'm looking for that day when I'll move to Nairobi because breakthrough was around the city. Devolution broke that.

[00:15:11]So there's no rural urban migration >> as it were before.

[00:15:17]>> So I can I can live and work in Cabaret as an example of of a county headquarters.

[00:15:24]>> Um because there are thousand people newly employed. These people need schools. These people need hotels. These people are they they have a salary. Um they they need cars. They need roads. So we are decentralizing what was what was putting pressure in uh in in Nairobi. So those are this the the sweet spots.

[00:15:45]Diaspora has gone down a little bit actually a big um by a big percentage. At high properties 40% of our customers are in diaspora. But look at what happened in diaspora after Trump came into power.

[00:16:02]Every country is looking inwards.

[00:16:04]>> Yeah.

[00:16:05]>> Every country is protecting their borders. And uh >> for example um there is a tax that was introduced a 5% tax to every remittance coming into Kenya. So if I live in the US and I want to send my mom some 10k I have to be charged 5%. Initially it was not there.

[00:16:25]>> That's one. Um, look at what what is happening in in the Middle East because our biggest remittance we we would remit about four billion.

[00:16:35]>> Yeah.$4 >> billion dollars every year.

[00:16:40]>> The first country uh was the US followed by Saudi Arabia and then the UK. Now look at what's happening in the Middle East. Yeah.

[00:16:51]Total reset. Total economic reset. And that has really because what is going to happen >> the more than 200 300 Kenyan 300,000 Kenyans >> that have traveled to to the GCC countries >> I mean we'll be jobless very soon and I pray they are not because I mean uh >> Dubai Dubai is is a tourism city that's tourism hub >> it's a financial hub um so it is the hotels that have absorbed so many of our people >> what happens with there's no war when there's war so no visitors. So that has really impacted on diaspora remittances uh in real estate indeed. And uh as we near the tail end of this discussion uh land not only uh is very lucrative >> to a point where it has also attracted fraudsters.

[00:17:44]>> We've seen people losing their hard earned money through uh unscrupulous dealers in the land selling business.

[00:17:52]Um, talk to me about regulations.

[00:17:55]>> Yes.

[00:17:56]>> Uh, protecting assets of hardworking Kenyans who just want to own a piece of something.

[00:18:03]>> Um, how do you also ensure that there is enforcement among those who choose to be the bad apples.

[00:18:12]>> Digitization is going to sort a lot. we are still in like the um we are like 45% digitized um that is going to sort a good beat of that um but I'll tell you something scammers follow the money initially scammers were in circles actually even before they went to circles they were in land they were in banks >> then now they are in land because because land everyone is running towards land creative.

[00:18:46]>> Um their next stop will be crypto. So it's not it's not an industry issue.

[00:18:53]>> Okay. But land our land needs a lot of regulation. A lot of regulation. One of one of the regulations that we look forward to attain is um what is agricultural land? you know uh today we are importing 60% of our food from our neighboring country Tanzania and Uganda. So what happens when government cannot really segment um that land that places for for for residences places for production of foods. Mhm.

[00:19:28]>> Um, a lot needs to be done. Uh, but actually a lot has been done from 2002.

[00:19:36]>> Initially, it was very messy.

[00:19:38]>> Yes.

[00:19:39]>> All right. And, uh, when you're not selling land, what does Naftali like doing? And, uh, just to have a work life balance.

[00:19:50]>> Um, when I'm not selling land, I I I do two sports. I I'm a golfer. And number two, I love the shooting range. Mhm.

[00:19:58]That's what I do.

[00:19:59]>> All right. Apart from family.

[00:20:01]>> Fantastic. And uh finally, where do you see uh land uh as a key asset being in the next 5 years? And uh what sort of uh tips can you give investors?

[00:20:17]>> Um you're looking forward to own a piece of land. This is what I'll tell you in Kenya. Uh one, there are many reasons why people buy land. So, if you're buying land for construction, of course, closer to where you're working. Um, but if you're buying land for capital appreciation, because land is not an investment. It's a capital land. Land is a basic factor of production. So, you can only buy for capital appreciation. That's not an investment. So, if you're looking forward to do that, um you're looking at uh what I just said, the newly uh done county headquarters. Remember, we we we now have only done about 15 years after after the county idea came to life. Actually, so many other so many counties are still doing infrastructure uh level five hospitals, good schools, all that. In the next five, in the next 50 years, all that will have come together, come home and so land will be um almost prime everywhere in this country. There are no there are no remote areas anymore in this country. So the beauty of buying far is that you can buy big and so in the future you'll have the power of subdividing. Okay. Um I'm talking about do I want to concentrate 100 million to buy an acre in Nairobi when 100 million can buy me 500 acres elsewhere. Those are the conversations. So it depends with why you buying for capital appreciation. That is the advice for construction.

[00:21:56]It can only it can only be relative to um I mean where where you work. All right.

[00:22:03]>> Fantastic. Thank you so much. Nalangi for speaking to us on the program and we look forward to just keeping an eye just to see how things uh shape up in the near future. It's a great great pleasure Abby Santana.

[00:22:18]>> All right. Well, that does it for us on this week's edition of Level Up podcast.

[00:22:24]We do appreciate your feedback and uh quite some interesting feedback coming in. People are saying they like the show. They'd love to see more different types of guests and we're working on that with the team here at Front Light.

[00:22:37]Well, from me and the entire team, we say bye-bye for now. Until next time, do subscribe and keep it locked here for more. My name is Abby again.