Does Consciousness Require a Universal Mind to Exist? (SPOILER: No, it Doesn't)

Added: 2026-05-25

[00:00:00]Pause.

[00:00:01]>> Yes.

[00:00:02]>> Hi. How are you?

[00:00:04]>> I'm fine. How are you?

[00:00:06]>> I'm doing good. Um, are you at least 18 years old?

[00:00:10]>> Yes.

[00:00:11]>> Okay. Um, and are you a believer?

[00:00:15]>> Yes.

[00:00:16]>> All right. Um, and what did you call in today for?

[00:00:21]>> Um, are you guys uh debating or like >> Yeah.

[00:00:25]>> discussing?

[00:00:26]>> Oh, okay. Yeah. Um, it's uh this is the atheist experience. So, we're really uh talking about questioning the faith um and like whether you all know the mind of your God since you know the the the plan of salvation. How is it that you know the plan of salvation? If you don't know the mind of your God, if you're not able to question the faith, if you're not able to question the God with the decisions that he makes as far as like um injustices and um morality like you have to accept that he is good because he's sovereign.

[00:01:08]>> Um so are you guys like just critiquing Christians or like anyone who believes in some sort of a higher >> any anyone?

[00:01:16]>> Yeah. Okay.

[00:01:17]>> Are you What is your belief?

[00:01:20]>> Um well, I study neuroscience. So, um studying that it's brought me to believe that there's um some sort of just I guess universal mind rather than like any I I I don't confined to any religion. Um but yeah, I believe that a universal mind exists.

[00:01:37]>> Okay. And do you communicate with this universal mind?

[00:01:41]>> Uh no, I I wouldn't know specifically um too many properties about it. I know that it's metaphysical. I know that it's outside of our reach. But I definitely believe it's more rational to think that um one exists rather than not based on what >> study. Why is that? Why do you say it's more rational? And you can jump in anytime. Why why do you why do you say it's more rational to believe that a universal mind exists? Like what is the purpose of this universal mind? Like what does it do? Um, well, I guess not really the purpose, but I guess it's it's there just to ground like I guess not really the how about consciousness, but the why because we understand the easy problems. We understand like the how. The how is not the problem. It's the why.

[00:02:27]>> How can you determine a why?

[00:02:30]um why a subjective experience arises from chemically uh physical chemical states rather than just not existing or rather than just a system computing on its own.

[00:02:47]>> But you're positing that there's a mind that's that's controlling all of this.

[00:02:51]Correct.

[00:02:53]Uh, not necessar not necessarily controlling it, but I mean like grounding it. Like it would specifically come from something that's I guess metaphysical.

[00:03:04]>> What's a thinker's point? Like what what does it do? What what's the purpose of it?

[00:03:10]>> What What do you mean when you say it grounds it? Like it's the source of it like it's the source of our consciousness.

[00:03:16]>> Uh not the source of consciousness. not like not like the how because we understand that um the brain uh its complexity it produces a how but like specifically like I guess the experiential states of the chemicals is not actually there so it's like how do we get that felt how do we get that qualia from chemicals that are just strictly physical >> but you're you're you're still saying that there's something >> that it does Yeah, that it does.

[00:03:50]>> Yeah, it would ground um the fel. Okay, well, let me simplify it. It would ground the inner experience that we have like the what it the quote unquote what it feels like. I don't know what your name is, but the quote unquote what it feels like to be you. That's what it would ground because purely physical chemical interactions cannot ground something like that.

[00:04:12]>> I mean, I feel pretty grounded without your God right now though, right? Like I've been me for the number of years that I've been me without believing in whatever it is you're talking about. So what's the functionality?

[00:04:22]>> I don't have >> like why are you saying that our brains are incapable of doing that? Like why do we need this extra universal mind?

[00:04:30]>> So I'll Yeah. No, I understand what you're saying. So um you're right. You can quote unquote be you like for years without this quote unquote mind. But what I'm saying is what even grounds that wouldn't be the physical chemical interactions in your brain because those physical chemical interactions in your brain don't have the properties of experience.

[00:04:54]>> What are the properties of experience?

[00:04:56]>> It would be first person. So like you wouldn't be able to observe it and it would be like what it feels like to feel pain. Like that would be another property. It's a metaphysical claim.

[00:05:06]It's it's metaphysical property. So you you can't observe them. You can't measure them. It's uh inobservable, unobservable. I don't know what the word is, but you can't observe them.

[00:05:17]>> Go ahead. Thank you.

[00:05:18]>> Wait, are you Did you just say that I cannot observe myself feeling pain? Is that is that what you just said?

[00:05:27]>> Uh not necessarily. You cannot observe yourself. You cannot observe what it feels like to feel pain. The feeling of what it feels like to feel pain.

[00:05:38]You can't take that and put it under a mind.

[00:05:40]>> I can't observe the feeling of what it feels like. So like if I saw Fee in pain, I can't observe Fee feeling pain.

[00:05:51]>> Who's Fee? What is that?

[00:05:53]>> That would be me.

[00:05:53]>> That's her.

[00:05:54]>> Oh, oops. My fault. Oops. Yeah. Okay.

[00:05:57]So, say say that again. Sorry. I didn't know what fee was. I thought that was >> like What do you mean? I can observe the feeling of what it feels like to feel pain. Like if if I saw Fee in pain and I'm observing her feeling pain.

[00:06:13]>> So do you know what it feels like to be Fee observing pain?

[00:06:18]>> No.

[00:06:18]>> You're saying that Fee can't You're saying that I can't observe myself feeling what it feels like to feel pain.

[00:06:30]>> What's your >> That's what you're saying.

[00:06:32]>> Well, okay. Well, we'll just use fe.

[00:06:34]We'll just use fe. Okay.

[00:06:36]Fee is a system. Can we agree? You're a system. System is a system.

[00:06:40]>> No, I understand what you're saying.

[00:06:42]You're saying that I don't have the experience of first person that I cannot observe myself.

[00:06:49]>> Yeah.

[00:06:50]>> Feeling Hold on. Let Hold on. Let me finish. Let me finish cuz I'm Yeah.

[00:06:54]>> You're saying that I cannot observe myself in feeling what it feels like to to feel myself in pain.

[00:07:05]like your god like for for example if there was a god looking down and saying oh um I'm observing thinker in pain and oh I feel sorry for thinker in pain um okay well this this will make it this will clear it up a little bit um you can observe the uh pain receptors the quote unquote pain receptor you can you can observe your um what uh your I don't study this your ner what what the is it called what's the system the [ __ ] damn what I forgot what that system's called bro damn um whatever system the electrical bro I I'm sorry >> are you in college right now >> yes but I study neurology I don't study the um I don't study and I forget >> what year are you in >> uh second >> second year you do >> I am so sorry you you I this is embarrassing. Uh yes, you can observe the nervous system um shooting electrical signals. You can observe that, but you can't observe what it feels like to be you feeling pain. It's impossible.

[00:08:14]>> But and and and why do you think that a universal mind can do that?

[00:08:19]>> It's not whether you think I It's not whether I think it can or can't observe it. What I'm saying is that that what it feels like to be that system is exclusive to you and pure chemicals that are not intrinsically experiential cannot ground that because they are not experiential. Those chemicals you know what I don't think >> no I don't I don't like I think this is unnecessary like what would what's the point of this? Well, I mean, if you were like >> No, like this is not offensive at all.

[00:08:50]Like, I'm I'm genuinely like >> No, I mean, even if as a you studying neuroscience, like did you go to class one day and your your teacher said, "Hey, there's not a God, but there's a universal mind and here's proof >> or did you come up with this yourself?"

[00:09:06]>> No, no, this No, there there's um it's not me concluding it myself. It's actually honestly it's a differing of it's like more or less you have something and you critique it and you justify what's more rational based on what you have.

[00:09:21]>> So whose idea was this?

[00:09:24]>> It's not whose idea. It's just >> Yeah. Who else who else who else uh knows this or believes this? Many people.

[00:09:34]>> Who? What? Who?

[00:09:36]>> What do you mean who?

[00:09:37]>> Incredible. Credible. Yeah.

[00:09:40]>> Jay Dyer. Who? Who? There's a lot of people. Uh, I'm just naming philosophers.

[00:09:45]>> What scholars? They said philosophers.

[00:09:48]>> Uh, Jay Dyer is a philosopher. He has his bachelor's in or masters in uh philosophy. You can search him up. Real person.

[00:09:56]>> Jay Dyer.

[00:09:58]>> Yes, ma'am.

[00:09:59]>> Hold on. How do you spell his last name?

[00:10:03]D Y E R.

[00:10:06]You wouldn't find his views in like an article. I think he's wrote a few articles actually, a few papers, but um yeah, this is his views. This is one of his views.

[00:10:15]>> How how have you confirmed that this is not this is actually true? Like >> so you can't actually confirm anything being 100% true. It's just the state of reality. But what you can do is just say what we have would be consciousness and you'd have to infer which is more rational based on what we have. Like you can't 100% prove there's a god and you can't 100% prove there's not a god. But >> this guy is like a influencer like he's not a >> no no he has masters in philosophy. No he doesn't.

[00:10:45]>> I mean but he's not like a um a credible scholar in in neuroscience or >> what would be a >> like I'm sorry. What would be what would be your criteria for scholar?

[00:10:58]>> Like he he's not a scholar of neuroscience.

[00:11:01]Like you're you're positing that this is what you learned. I'm sorry. You're you're positing that this is what you learned um in college right while studying neuroscience.

[00:11:14]And I'm asking you what other neuroscientists uh agree with you.

[00:11:20]>> Oh, you want >> or is this something you came up with?

[00:11:23]Is this something that you uh came up with?

[00:11:27]>> No. Some some neuroscientists don't agree with me.

[00:11:29]>> Some neuroscientists positive. There's some neuroscience actually has not figured this out yet. There's just theories on what it >> Where did you get this from?

[00:11:39]>> Where did I get what?

[00:11:40]>> Where did you get Yeah. what you're saying right now, right?

[00:11:44]>> Where did you get this from? Because you brought up neuroscience for a reason.

[00:11:48]Like where where did you get this this idea from that this universal >> can let me finish asking the question?

[00:11:54]Okay.

[00:11:55]>> No, I know your question. It's just where did you >> No, you don't.

[00:11:58]>> Okay. What's your question?

[00:11:59]>> No, you don't. I'm asking where did you get the idea uh regarding the universal mind as it pertains to um this first person experience uh properties that you were uh referring to?

[00:12:16]Um, regarding the system, this system that you were mentioning, where did that come from?

[00:12:26]>> That came from people believing that there has been universal minds for thousands of years. There's been quote unquote >> first person experience.

[00:12:35]>> No, no, no. If you want to call it a quote unquote God, I mean, sure. But, um, I guess I'll just use God. Um, yeah.

[00:12:41]So, people have been believing in God for a very long time. That's nothing new. It's just um where did I get the idea from? I guess the quote unquote idea of God came from those people believed.

[00:12:52]>> Not the idea of God. That's not what I'm asking. This idea of this un this system >> that would be God. Can >> No, no, no. Can you the idea of this system that is observing that's grounding uh me observing myself uh in pain or these first person experiences these first person properties that you were mentioning? Where did that come from?

[00:13:18]>> Where did it come from?

[00:13:20]>> Yeah. What idea where did you get this information like this this idea? Did you think of this yourself is what I'm asking. Did you sit down and then did you like smoke a noob and then say, "Oh my gosh, like man, all this stuff I'm learning in class, >> man. I bet this what it is, bro.

[00:13:38]>> I'm grounded like a [ __ ] right now."

[00:13:40]>> Yeah. No, the concept of a universal mind has existed for thousands of years.

[00:13:44]>> I'm not talking about the concept of a universal mind, though. I'm talking about this I'm talking about these first person properties that you posited earlier.

[00:13:55]Show us what makes what you're saying true. That's what that's what she's asking you for. Like where >> I can't 100% verify anything is true.

[00:14:02]Like I >> Where did you get it from though is what I'm asking.

[00:14:06]>> Where is this your original thought?

[00:14:09]>> Properties.

[00:14:10]>> No, no, no. Is this >> is this your original thought?

[00:14:16]>> What is my original thought? that the universal mind grounds through these first person properties.

[00:14:25]Is this your original thought?

[00:14:27]>> No, absolutely not.

[00:14:28]>> Okay. Where did that come from?

[00:14:31]>> Many uh people who study neuroscience, this is one of their >> Okay. Who? That's who I was asking you about earlier.

[00:14:39]>> What neuroscientist what neuroscientist uh posits that?

[00:14:44]>> Yeah, I'd have to look that up.

[00:14:46]>> Go back and look at my textbooks. Yeah, sure. But yeah. No, there's >> You need to go look at your textbooks.

[00:14:52]>> Yeah, there's multiple that think it does. There's multiple that think it doesn't, but I take their side.

[00:14:58]>> Yeah. Can you name one?

[00:15:00]>> Can you name one?

[00:15:02]>> Why do I have to name one?

[00:15:03]>> Because I told you he was sitting there like Chichin Jones smoking a a doobie and like it's it's okay. It's okay if you were. That's I'm just trying to figure out if this is your original thought or is is this is there a consensus out here?

[00:15:20]>> What do you mean? Why is it better? Like this like literally we're asking you do you just want us to just accept what you say is truth?

[00:15:26]>> Did you just say uh there if there's a consensus that's a fallacy?

[00:15:32]>> I don't think that's what she said.

[00:15:33]>> I don't think you know what that I don't even think you know what I'm talking about.

[00:15:37]>> She said that's why we're asking you questions. I'm not sure you know it.

[00:15:41]>> What does experiential mean?

[00:15:42]>> What do you think? What do you think that we're asking you questions for?

[00:15:46]>> What does experience?

[00:15:47]>> You didn't like literally we asked you questions.

[00:15:51]>> You didn't even You didn't even uh you didn't even uh articulate it uh correctly. That's That's why we literally said, "Will you stop?" That's why we literally said, "You aren't making sense. None of like it doesn't even matter. Like you can't even you can't even explain it enough for it to you can't even explain it enough for you can't even explain it enough. I'm not a [ __ ] neuroscientist student.

[00:16:15]>> Exactly. Because >> Exactly. SO LIKE THERE'S LIKE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING about is irrelevant. It makes no sense to understand.

[00:16:24]>> Okay, cool. I don't care. Your dumb ass is sitting on here talking about some [ __ ] first person universal mind knowing how it feel to smoke a [ __ ] NEWBIE FROM YOUR MOUTH.

[00:16:35]Like like you're getting mad because we're asking you for resources. Like this is ridiculous. I mean, if you understand it, you should be able to explain it to us. Ne neither thinker nor I are unintelligent women. Like we can we can follow a train of thought. If you are claiming that this thing is true, then show us how it's true. Like just show us the evidence that you're pointing to that makes it true. I don't think that's too hard of an ask.

[00:16:57]>> Like I'm trying to figure out if this was his original thought. Like he What the hell?

[00:17:05]Can we get some real people in here? Cuz I think he was still high.