Chicago Bulls | Game Theory Offseason Preview

[00:00:00]Hello and welcome to the Game Theory podcast offseason preview series where Bryce Simon and I break down a number of different avenues for every single NBA team as they make their decisions this summer. Today we're going to talk about the Chicago Bulls who have an easy decision at number four overall which will be the most momentous choice that they have to make this entire summer and it will be the easiest which is great.

[00:00:24]They're going to get an awesome basketball player. Whichever of the top four falls, likely Caleb Wilson, they're just going to be able to run to the podium and take that guy. Super simple.

[00:00:34]Now, the next question for me though is they have an immense amount of cap space. They have an immense amount of optionality that I'm sure we will discuss in terms of how they go about building their roster moving forward around Caleb Wilson as well as Josh Giddy, Modis Bazllis, the other players they have on the roster. Bryce, what's going on, man?

[00:00:54]>> Yeah, this is one of the more unique ones, right, Sam? We have a top five pick where there's not a whole lot of suspense. I mean, I I guess the thing if you're a Bulls fan is is there a world where Caleb Wilson jumps into the top three and you get one of those other guys to fall or whatever. I I think my only thing would be is if if it does, then you should be even happier than you already should be that you're at the very least going to get a talent like Caleb Wilson. And then this roster is just well well there are some interesting names, right? You brought them up. The fact that there is just so much salary cap space here and then what do you do with it, right? Like can you make some really strategic free agent signings? Can you be the third team facilitating deals and getting, you know, future draft capital or was it was Jared Allen, right, that ended up in Cleveland in a deal that between Brooklyn and Phoenix. Is that right? Was that the deal? um like can you end up with a a player of that caliber by facilitating stuff because of your cap space. So um fun offseason for the Bulls. They finally decided to take this path and like you said number four pick is the biggest decision but you know that they do have to do something with all of this salary cap space.

[00:02:09]>> It's 100% right that they have to do something with this space. So let's go to the graphic. Shout out Andrew Claudio, our producer, for making this graphic.

[00:02:19]Obviously, number four is >> Nets and the Rockets. It was the Harden deal. I apologize. Nets and the Rockets was the Jared Allen. So, sorry. I wanted to correct myself.

[00:02:26]>> Yeah, that's right. Sorry. Um, just who they have under contract, right? Josh Giddy, Trey Jones, Modis Bazellis, Isaac Coro, Jaylen Smith, Patrick Williams, No Gay, Rob Dillingham, uh, Muhammadu Gay, and then Leonard Miller. Shout out the icon Leton Miller. Uh that's 95 million for 10 players. So they have an immense amount of space. Like they can really play around and do a number of different things, right? Like they can go and try to get somebody who's like a real difference maker or they can go and try to, you know, accumulate assets, right?

[00:03:01]Take on players from a team like the Denver Nuggets who are going to try to be cutting money, right?

[00:03:08]>> They're like a perfect Christian Brown spot to me, right? like a tough-minded defender who can play next to Josh Giddy and Model get the two get out in transition, right?

[00:03:18]>> So, can Denver give give them assets in order to take on that money? I think that those options are really available to the Bulls here. Obviously, they have a new front office executive in Bryson Graham as well. Uh they have trade exceptions. Kevin Herder 17 million. Uh Usuzman Jen 6.7 million. They have the room exception in all likelihood at 8 million. The trade exceptions will likely go away >> if they decide to use cap space. The only reason that I've put them on here is because they do have the ability in theory to stay over the cap if they want to.

[00:03:55]>> Um, with Anthony Simons, Colin Ston, and Zack Collins's cap holds.

[00:04:01]>> Oh, yep. Yeah.

[00:04:02]>> You in theory can decide to operate in that manner. um which would then give you access to the non- taxpayer MLE everything like that. But look, they have like the the o the odds are I think that they will operate 70 million or so under the cap. They have 111 million away from the first apron, 124 million away from the second apron. Uh and then they have four draft picks as well. 415, 38, and 56. So look, 4 and 15 will eat in uh like 15 million or so ballpark, maybe like 13 million into that cap space.

[00:04:36]they're still gonna have an immense amount of room and opportunity to be able to do what they want to do uh in order to accumulate assets or add like a significant player. So before we kind of go into the draft and everything like that, I think that you and I are going to operate within this conversation as if it's going to be Caleb Wilson at number four, right? That feels like the safest bet. I don't know that, you know, for some reason, say it's Bamboozer. I don't really think that changes much in terms of their like, you know, order of operations of the way that they're thinking things.

[00:05:15]I I think that they just keep it pretty simple here and you're doing the same thing regardless of what the like draft pick is. But I think it's probably going to be Caleb Wilson at the end of the day.

[00:05:29]>> I think I agree. I don't think even if there was a stunner of, you know, the Bonsa falling to four or something. I don't think all of a sudden I'm speeding up the timeline of I don't think that's going to change my opinion on on the pitch I'm going to make today in terms of how I think that they should approach the off season. I I think it would still be the same idea in terms of kind of a a short-term plan that then will turn into a longer plan, you know, a year from now or something like that. So, I'm assuming it's going to be Caleb Wilson. If it was somebody different, again, Bulls fans should be even more excited, but I don't think it it changes what my plan for the offseason would be.

[00:06:09]>> Yeah, I I think that that's right. Okay, so before we get into the draft stuff, let's just ask this blanket question to knock it out from the jump.

[00:06:20]Are you trying to retain any of these free agents? Simons, Stexton, Zack Collins, Nick Richards, Yabuselli.

[00:06:28]>> Um, like I I like I like Colin Ston. I would take Colin Ston on my team if I was this team. Um, like I just want to keep his cap hold to do it. You know what I mean? Like I think I would just I think I'm renouncing all of these guys and then if I can I'm I'm assuming Colin Section will want to go look at the free agency market and then if I can get him back on a quality deal I I probably would be okay using my cap space depending on what else materialized. I guess the best way of saying it is I'm not so adamant about keeping any of these guys that it's going to keep me from doing other things that are more advantageous. you know, if I end up using up all my cap space to facilitate other deals to acquire future assets and, you know, again, potentially a Jared Allen, like that might be aggressive in terms of being able to get a player like that. But if I Stexon is the name that I'm most interested in like I would I think he's valuable for a team even in this situation where the Bulls are at in terms of kind of rebuilding cuz here's the thing Sam you do need to win some games next year cuz you don't want to end up in the relegation zone of the bottom three teams and so I I I don't mind the idea of Ston on the team but if it ends up not working out because of other things I'm I'm okay with it. I I might prefer Simons to Ston honestly just in terms of like >> the pure like scoring >> just go get buckets >> shooting factor right like they're both shooters they're both scorers obviously but I don't know there's like a little bit more of an explosive quality to me with Simons that I think might work a little bit better on this >> I like the toughness mentality of Ston that like I just think would be valuable to a team was that's going to be playing as many young players as they're playing. I'm not saying Anthony Simons isn't tough like I'm not trying to throw shade. I'm just saying when I watch Colin Sexton is like this dude flat out gets after it like all of those. So that that's why with Sexton for me I understand my pitch is probably going to be somebody else that I'm going to say hey let's go overpay this guy on a one-year deal to come in and be our bucket getter this year. I I don't know who that name is going to be yet. But whenever we talk about free agents that was going to be my pitch to you is who can they overpay to be the leading scorer on this team next year?

[00:08:45]>> I think it's I think it's honestly got a real shot to be Caleb Wilson. I'm just going to say that.

[00:08:51]>> So, so, so this is my immediate like I that's fine for me. I would prefer it not to have to be Caleb Wilson or Modest Bazel. Like I guess I guess the way that I think Caleb would go about it >> is I'm just going to go and play with like an exceptional motor and just like will my way into buckets kind of thing. Uh but look like Josh Giddy might be able to do this too. Like Giddy might be able to average 20 points and eight assists and >> seven rebounds a game or whatever next year. Like that wouldn't blow my mind either. But I agree with you. Like they could use one more score. Be it Anthony Simons, Colin Sexton, or be it somebody in free agency. Uh, I I do think that they need another guard though is what I would say because I am not like a believer in the Rob Dillingham experience. Never really have been. Um, I like Trey Jones as a ball handler and as a highle defender, but like >> Trey Jones is best utilized as like your sixth man, seventh man off the bench, not as a I know he started a lot of games for them this year, but like I I think like slotting wise, roster-wise, it probably makes more sense for him to come off the bench.

[00:10:00]Let's dig into some options for them, right? Because again, to me, if I'm them, I'm probably trying to take on assets by taking on money. Now, I will say this. I just want to like sugar I want to put this out there at the start of this conversation.

[00:10:17]A huge part of this is what Jerry Rindorf and the Rinorf family is willing to do, right? Obviously in the past they have tried to be competitive to be like at least in the playin tournament if they can be.

[00:10:34]Should you be willing to take on like bad money in order to get good money like down the road into the future?

[00:10:42]Obviously yes. The Wizards have shown this. The Thunder have shown this.

[00:10:45]Obviously, this is the way that you should go about team building right now at the very least in order to get more bites at the apple, get more assets, take on bad money. The Bulls are so primed to be able to do that. And I want to be clear, too, like Bryson Graham has talked about doing this in his press conference is and in everything else. So, I think there's a good chance they go about operating this way. It's just that to me, I struggle a little bit with the proof of concept on the Ryan Dorfs. People will say, "Oh, this is a new era of the Rinorfs, and they're willing to spend.

[00:11:18]They're willing to do whatever it takes." I don't know. Like, I haven't seen that so far. There was like all those all that reporting early on about, oh, we're going to like spend like crazy on the front office and we're going to, you know, go get all of these like super highlevel front office executives. Well, like you know, and this is certainly no shots at Steven Mervvis, who people across the NBA think is quite smart and is very good uh in terms of like deal negotiation and he's an analytically inclined human being. Like I I think that he was a good match for Bryson Graham as the GM, but like he was the number four guy in Orlando, you know what I mean? So they go and hire a GM who was the number four guy in Orlando.

[00:12:04]It's not like they went out and spent an obscene amount of money to go grab Steven Murphus to be the GM, right? It's not like they went out and like spent an obscene amount of money to go steal the other front office executives they went and got went to grab, right? So, I just say all of this to say I am someone with the Rhinto family where it's I need to see it before I believe it. I guess in terms of what it is.

[00:12:31]>> Yeah. No, I I agree with that. Do you have names? Like I know you brought up Christian Brown. I have a couple.

[00:12:38]>> To me it's like targeting teams, right?

[00:12:41]Like that's what you're trying to do here. You're targeting teams.

[00:12:44]>> So the funniest one I think is one we've talked about Sacramento Kings. We we just did this conversation the other day about them needing to find a place.

[00:12:58]You're doing this cuz you know I'm right. Um, at least that the idea could make sense. But like Demar De Rozan right back to Chicago, >> if the Kings are willing to spend assets to take that $10 million of Demar D Rozan guarantee off of the Kings books, like if the Kings are willing to send some sort of pick capital so that Demar D Rozan and that $10 million guarantee are not on their books. Sure. Like I'm all for it. Please just don't put that evil on me and make us have this conversation about like flipping Demar De Rozan and Zack Lavine back to the Bulls again. Like after being to the Kings from the Bulls like snip like we can't do the Michael Scott snip snap snip snap snip snap. Like I can't I can't do that. I >> I don't understand that reference but I'll ask Granny after we're done recording. Um I I know what show it's from. I just don't understand. Um okay.

[00:13:56]Okay, so two other Jeremy Grant like is Portland would Portland be willing to give up assets to get off of him? Jordan B would be like would nor the Pelicans be willing to give up assets to get off of his contract because what I'm looking for more than the Yaka Purle or Christian Brown multi-year ones is like Grant only has one more year pool is on an expiring but if those teams were looking to get off that money now are are those names that would be a little bit interesting and I think names that could be veterans that help you stay competitive in regular season basketball to more properly develop and evaluate Caleb Wilson, Modis Bazellis, etc. >> Well, here here's the real question for me with New Orleans, right?

[00:14:48]Is there any way that they would do Jordan Pool for Patrick Williams?

[00:14:54]>> Because here's the here's >> the reason for this, right?

[00:15:01]The New Orleans Pelicans currently are only 6 and a half million away from the first apron.

[00:15:10]If you did Jordan Pool for Patrick Williams, it would open up enough space for you to potentially stay under the tax and to go do your non-t taxpayer midle.

[00:15:26]>> Yeah. like that would create the space for you to be able to use those things whereas right now they do not have that opportunity and how many teams are going to be willing to take back Jordan Pool now New Orleans I think has like their irons in a lot of fires quote unquote like they're going to figure out what to do with Trey Murphy will they move Herb Jones obviously they have a route to do this like you can not have the Cavon Looney money on your books and that gets you pretty close to the non- taxpayer mid level. It it it does get you like reasonably close, but then like there are rumors coming out like I saw that Jake Fischer said they want a first round pick, right? And they want to get as high as they can to go get Nate Aemon uh who it feels like is probably going to go in the top 10, right? So, a you're probably have to mortgage real pick capital to be able to do that and b uh you're going to have to mortgage assets. So, like there are ways for the Pelicans to get to the non-t taxpayer mid-level that don't involve this. And I can't say that I think this is a good idea for the Pelicans to take on the Patrick Williams money. In fact, I would say it would be an absolute catastrophe if they took on the Patrick Williams money for Jordan Pool's expiring salary.

[00:16:48]I think they just have better mechanisms to be able to do this. Like you could just trade Jordan Hawkins somewhere, but also would the Pelicans pay you to take on like would they give you a couple of second round picks to take on the Jordan Hawkins money is another like reasonable option that would open up space for you, right? The Pelicans I think are a good team though, which >> where this would make a lot of sense.

[00:17:14]Jordan Pool. Like, if they're willing to give me I mean, here's the here's the idea.

[00:17:20]Are you willing to do Jordan Pool?

[00:17:25]No, that doesn't really work. Like, you'd need a first I think you'd need a first round pick back to take Jordan Pool is the reality.

[00:17:34]Unless you're sending off Patrick Williams and then like if you're the Bulls, would you be willing to attach like a real pick you are Williams? Cuz if you're the Bulls, you're just doing that straight up, right? Like if what if what if there's a world where Troy Weaver in the front office actually think that they like value Patrick Williams, you know, like maybe they loved him pre-draft or something like that and just said like, "Hey, this guy can come in and we think that he could be a player for us." And they don't see that contract in as negative of a light as maybe what we see it as. Like would if you're the Bulls, you just straight up straight up make that trade, right?

[00:18:14]Would you attach a second round pick to it?

[00:18:17]They have a they have extras.

[00:18:22]Don't Don't put that evil on Pelicans fans that Troy Weaver and Joe Dumar might value Patrick Williams.

[00:18:29]>> Just I don't know. I'm just saying >> we're just we're just throwing like all sorts of like evil thoughts here across the league uh as the Bulls try to accumulate assets. The thing here's the issue for the like conversation that we're having in general, right?

[00:18:46]I think teams are going to be a little bit more circumspect about attaching a like real assets like first round pick assets to some of these things if only because we don't know what's going to happen with this new lottery system and like how ownorous it's going to be quite yet.

[00:19:05]The other thing that is like pretty real here is it's not as easy to just do pick swaps now either because of how volatile the new lottery system is going to be. Like you could do, okay, yeah, Jordan Pool, you give us a pick swap and two second round picks and we'll do it, right? Like something like that. Well, like that pick swap might be pretty freaking good, dude. like that might be like >> worth a first round pick at the end of the day whenever it comes down to it. So I or it could be worth nothing like that that's how volatile the new system is.

[00:19:45]So it it's hard for teams I think to wrap their head around how volatile they're willing to get with moving some of those swaps, some of those picks. And I worry that Chicago might be trying to embark on this like maybe at the wrong time, but I think they will have options. Like Denver is the automatic one to me where I'm like Denver needs to cut money to go get Payton Watson. Are you willing to go take on the Christian Brown money if Denver attaches number 26 to it or something like that?

[00:20:17]>> Yeah. So that was my I think I was trying to find name like I I'll be completely honest and how I like got to Jeremy Grant, Jordan P. Like I just went and looked at cap hits and numbers of players who I was like okay those are pretty good numbers. Portland might be a team looking to get off some money.

[00:20:35]Jordan, you know the Pelicans might be a team looking to get off some money. And so like that's where I pulled those names from. My thing with like Christian Brown again is do I want to sign up for that long-term cap hit like that many years? But I do think if you're Chicago again, you could probably talk yourself into Christian Brown is going to provide value on that contract playing in our system, right? Like maybe just we're going to get out in transition like you said, defender, all of those things. So maybe it's okay. I I just was trying to stay away from players who had multiple years and make sure you you know Chicago kept their flexibility I guess.

[00:21:19]>> Yeah. No, I I don't mind that either necessar like I think it's smart if you're taking on big money for multiple years like Christian Brown. Like you need to get paid for it. Like you need to get like real asset value in order to do that. Um, >> I don't think their guys are gonna like I think they're gonna get stuff for like Aaron Wiggins, you know what I mean?

[00:21:42]>> Real quick, if you got 24 from the Nuggets, >> do you think? Yeah.

[00:21:49]>> So, excuse me, 26. If Yeah.

[00:21:51]>> If do you think that that would be enough to package with 15 and get into the lottery in a substantial way? Like cuz to me that's where like these moves combine where 26 on its own isn't like oh wow 26 and 15 getting me to 11 and again I'm not saying I don't think the Warriors would probably do that. Maybe they would. I don't know. But now all of a sudden that all like that complete look at the picture is a little more intriguing to me. You know does that make sense?

[00:22:28]Yeah, like you have to try to pinpoint teams there is the key, right? So like is there a chance that you know Miami trying to accumulate more assets in order to go get a Giannis deal? Would they do 15 and 26 for 13?

[00:22:43]>> Yeah.

[00:22:43]>> Right. And then you can go get like MZ Johnson, jump the Hornets to go get Morz Johnson at 13 maybe. Uh if Perez is still on the board or go jump the Hornets to get Han Steinbach or something like that if you want a big >> Yeah.

[00:22:58]>> and you end up with him instead of Cam Carr or someone like that. Like that's a real tangible value grab to me. Like I would be in favor especially if it's MZ. Like if you go got if you went and got MZ Johnson over Cam Carr, that's a real value ad and you're adding Christian Brown to the mix on some level too because Christian's still not a bad player. He's just, >> you know, a player that's a little bit overpaid for what he is and they need to get their books clean. I mean, the other option here is Cam Johnson, too. Cam Johnson is just not going to cost as much to get off of, I don't think.

[00:23:31]>> Yeah. So, because he only has one year left on that deal and like still a very good basketball player and I think that's a good point with Christian Brown, too. It's not like he's a bad It's not like he's a non-rotation NBA player or something crazy like that.

[00:23:43]Like he just he's just overpaid now. Um based off what we last saw on, you know, on the court, >> but then like Miami has to go send to Milwaukee, right? Like they then have 13 26 and three more first round picks to send for Giannis, right? So Milwaukee is now getting five first round picks instead of four first round picks, right?

[00:24:03]>> Yes. And I think to your point, this at 15, we are truly in a potential tear break portion of the draft where moving up two or three spots may not sound like a lot, but it it really could be the difference. And everybody's board is different, but Chicago might have 13 players they really love. And this might allow them to go get now two of those 13 players cuz they're getting Caleb Wilson at four. Now you can jump up and you can get a second one of those instead of Caleb Wilson and then okay we got a player we like but wasn't in that you know tier of 13 players or 14 players or again I don't know how high you could get again maybe you go if there was a team maybe you could go even higher Miami makes the most sense but maybe you could go even higher if you added a couple second rounders or something like that so that's where this would be even more interesting to me I don't necessarily like I think there's some fun names at 6 that we could talk about that would be cool, but this scenario would be a little more exciting for me if I was a Bulls fan.

[00:25:09]>> Well, no. Like the Bulls have been very clear and upfront about trying to move up in the draft as well. Like that's been reported extremely publicly at this point. So, I think that this is like an entirely fair conversation to be having to be honest with you. Um, okay. other teams that they could look to like try to pillage for assets basically.

[00:25:32]I mean like Boston you could maybe try to go get Sam Hower, but again like I don't think Hower is going to get you the asset return that you want in addition to Hower, right?

[00:25:43]>> The the key is trying to find teams that will give you stuff on top of the player. And there just like aren't as many of those teams as you would kind of expect. I guess Jeremy Grant, like you said, was a good name. The issue with Jeremy Grant though is that like I does Jere does getting rid of Jeremy Grant attaching an asset to Jeremy Grant.

[00:26:06]>> Yeah.

[00:26:07]>> Who by the way like they have 15 overall from the Blazers this year like that's how they got this pick. Like does that does that tangibly change what the Blazers can do?

[00:26:18]>> Yeah, that that's the problem, right?

[00:26:20]Yeah.

[00:26:22]Like I I'm trying to think of like if it actually offers them enough space to renegotiate and extend Denny by giving him like, hey, we'll give you 20 extra million this year and next year and then we'll extend you two years beyond that at like your max number, right?

[00:26:42]because that gives him like $40 million extra upfront than what he would be making and it keeps his cap hold like a little or keeps his cap hit a little bit lower for the following two years.

[00:26:54]Honestly, if you could do that cuz what 34 million they have? I mean that would get them not that far off of being able to do that honestly. Bryce.

[00:27:09]>> Oh yeah.

[00:27:11]It would be close in terms of like them being able to add like significant money to Denny's deal up front and then extend off of that number for two extra years, which might be worthwhile >> even if just adding like 10 to 15 million to Denny's deal per year. Like that's 20 million that like he's not getting back. You know what I mean? So I don't know. Um maybe Jeremy Grant is an interesting idea and maybe the Blazers would give you like something real to do that.

[00:27:44]>> And to be clear, this is something we talked about on the Blazers one as well.

[00:27:47]Like we talked about this, you know, Dinabia contract situation that's coming up. So this isn't just like coming up out of nowhere. Like we talked about Portland needing to have this consideration. So >> yeah. No, I think that there may be a team that could theoretically do something like this, but I I don't think they will if you made me guess. Like I I would guess that they probably won't do this. Orlando is a team that theoretically could do something like this, but like they're big money players. Like I guess that you could take back Jonathan Isaac if Orlando is willing to give you back something, right? Cuz Jonathan Isaac has 8 million guaranteed this year and a $14 million salary. If you get rid of his $14 million salary, they're like fairly close to the tax number at that point.

[00:28:37]>> Yeah. Yep. I think that one makes sense.

[00:28:40]>> That's a real like, hey, if we're willing to give a first round pick or I don't think they're going to be willing to give a first given it's only 8 million guaranteed, but like maybe more in the second. I can see. I don't know.

[00:28:53]It's hard. It's hard for me to like really pinpoint the teams that will give up a first because I'd imagine that Chicago after having acquired 97 second round picks at the deadline this past year is probably looking more for a first than a second. So, that's what I was going to ask since you brought up the seconds before we move off of this idea or if we may continue on, but would you be willing to make value plays and potentially give up a second round pick if it meant you were getting a player that you wouldn't normally get at that value, which is quote unquote just a second round pick, but the other team is willing to do that because you're not having to send anything back to them.

[00:29:35]So, I want to go back to the Sam Hower idea. I don't know what Sam Hower would, you know, cost to acquire in general, but if Boston said, "Hey, because you don't have to send us anything back, we can just trade him into your cap space.

[00:29:52]We're only going to ask for a single second round pick back." You would do that, right? I wonder if that's an if if if those type of acquisitions could be on the table for Chicago where yeah, you're giving up an asset, but you're getting them for way less than what you would otherwise because of the nature of the cap space situation.

[00:30:16]>> Yeah. And what is the idea that you could maybe flip them down the road for like more asset capital? My idea with Sam Hower is I want Sam Hower on my rebuilding team to provide floor spacing and gravity that I think is valuable to Modest Develis and Caleb Wilson's development and then yes two years from now cuz I think he has three years left on his deal if I'm not mistaken.

[00:30:42]>> Yeah. then I will trade him and I will get that draft capital back at the very least when he's on an expiring deal and really worth that. You know, like it doesn't even have to be Sam Hower. I just wonder if there's four or five of those type of names that you potentially could do something like that with.

[00:31:01]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:05]And just like help accelerate your rebuild. Okay. I'm into it on some level.

[00:31:11]I'm not even trying to win games necessarily. I'm trying to stay competitive. Like I I'm trying to be in competitive basketball games and have the fourth worst record in the NBA next year. Not one of the bottom three.

[00:31:24]>> Yeah. I mean, like another kind of just random option I'm trying like the other guy here that's a really interesting discussion point to me is Jaylen Smith because Jaylen Smith has turned into somebody who's like a pretty valuable player. He's probably best as a third big, >> right? I agree with all of that. Yep.

[00:31:43]>> I think that there are going to be teams that like want Jaylen Smith this summer and like you could really get assets for him.

[00:31:50]>> Like if you are the Pelicans and I go back to the Pelicans here because they don't have a center and because they could really use a spacing center next to Y or next to Zion Williamson, right? or you know whoever gets like if the Boston Celtics gets >> and they need a spacing center.

[00:32:08]>> This is a great call. Yeah.

[00:32:10]>> Like could you like do some sort of trade where it's like Jaylen Smith for the 27th overall pick or something? Like would you be willing to do something like you take back Jordan Pool, the Pelicans get Jaylen Smith and like the Pelicans give up a first round pick to do that because they're getting back like a real like a valuable player in return. You know what? Like something like that could be a way to use your cap space, too. It isn't just like, oh god, you're eating all of this money.

[00:32:40]Honestly, like for the Nuggets, the Nuggets should love Jaylen Smith as an idea behind Yokic. Yep.

[00:32:46]>> Right.

[00:32:47]>> So, like could you do something like, "Hey, we'll give you Christian Brown, you give us Jaylen Smith, or we'll give you Cam Johnson, you give us Jaylen Smith, you know, and we'll give you 26 to do that."

[00:33:00]>> Yeah. Because for the Nuggets, they're probably drafting a center at 26, but now you're getting the veteran Jaylen Smith who can space the floor as opposed to the only big floor spacer in that range is Vasar, and he's a rookie coming in that, you know, just isn't an NBA vet for a team that is trying to win a championship over the next few years.

[00:33:18]This was a great idea. And to your point, you're not eating as much cap space or potential cap, you know, because um because you're moving off Jaylen Smith's money, which again, I I have no problem if Jaylen Smith is on this roster next year. You know what I mean? Like he'd be valuable for them.

[00:33:36]>> Absolutely. But I think this is I think you're right. I think NBA teams should value him. I I like Jaylen Smith, man.

[00:33:43]Like I I think he's a good basketball player. It is funny that you bring up the Giannis thing because acquiring Jaylen Smith might be is easier than acquiring Miles Turner just because simply the contract. I'm not saying Jaylen Smith is Miles Turner. That's not what I'm saying. But wherever Giannis may end up like even if he ends up in in Miami, right? Chicago should immediately call Miami because most likely that deal sent out Khil Wear. Hey, you guys interested in Jaylen Smith as your third big with Giannis and Bam Adabio? Okay. I don't know what else they'd I don't know what they'd have left. Maybe they're the third team in this deal and however it all shakes out, they get something really nice in return, right?

[00:34:24]>> Yeah, I I think that that's absolutely right. So, I do at least want to like mention that like Jaylen Smith here is like a potential interlocator.

[00:34:32]>> Yeah. to me is like, >> hey, we could go get something of real value here utilizing the Jaylen Smith contract, right, which is seen as very positive and he's a valuable player and would be val again like >> would be valuable to the Bulls next season to be clear, >> but also would be like probably a little bit more valuable to a team that's contending at the end of the day. He only has one year left as well at 9.4 4 million. So like, you know, expiring contract.

[00:35:02]I don't know that that like Cam Johnson and 26 for Jaylen Smith thing actually like does track for me is kind of an interesting idea. And I I like the Cam Johnson idea. Again, I'm sorry to Bulls fans. I I know I'm bringing a broken record here, but it's just something I'm very adamant about with teams in the stage that the Bulls are in. Cam Johnson would be a great player to have on the court with your young players, even if it's for the first 50 games and then you trade him on an expiring deal at the deadline. Even even if you don't get a crazy return value, even if it's a couple seconds or something like that, like I would I I think Cam Johnson provides value and it keeps the cap flexibility moving forward where you can push that down into 2027 and then we can revisit this once you have a better feel of what is or is not Modest Buselis, what is Caleb Wilson, what is his trajectory because that's where I'm ultimately at Sam is I want some more data collection on these young players before I decide how I want to make any sort of big move with my salary cap situation.

[00:36:08]>> And I think that honestly if I'm the Bulls, I'm probably willing to throw 38 into that too.

[00:36:13]>> Sure, I'd be okay with that based on what how we feel about the second round.

[00:36:17]>> Yeah. Like add $14 million, get a better player, and you know, you move up from 38 to 26.

[00:36:26]And for Denver, they then don't have the locked in capold of 26. That saves him a ton of money, right? Not just Cam for Jaylen, but it also 26 to 38 is a cap savings as well.

[00:36:39]>> Yeah, maybe that's actually the deal.

[00:36:40]Maybe it's Yeah, honestly, that's one of the better ones I've thought of yet is Cam Johnson in 26 for Jaylen Smith in 28 because it saves Denver.

[00:36:52]>> 38 rather, sorry. Yeah. Um, it saves Denver off the top of my head.

[00:36:58]14 plus probably two, >> so 16 million. Like that gets them really close to the number they need to resign Payton Watson at that point.

[00:37:08]>> Yeah.

[00:37:08]>> And they get Jaylen Smith in return, who is like a valuable player for them moving forward. And then maybe you can draft a guaranteed contract guy at 38.

[00:37:16]>> Yeah.

[00:37:18]>> Yep.

[00:37:18]>> Yeah. That that actually does work pretty well for me to be honest. Uh okay. Those are the kind of deals that we that like if we're the Bulls, we should be exploring those kind of moves, right?

[00:37:32]Next NBA draft. We're not going to talk a whole lot about number four. They're taking whoever falls falls to them at number four out of the top four picks.

[00:37:42]I'm not taking Darius Auff, much as I love Darius Akuff. I'm not taking Katon Waggler. I am taking whoever of AJ Debansa, Darren Peterson, Cam Boozer, Caleb Wilson falls to me. We're assuming Caleb Wilson.

[00:37:54]We don't need to have more of a conversation there, right?

[00:37:57]>> I do not. No.

[00:37:59]>> Okay. Number 15.

[00:38:02]I've heard them associate quite a bit with Merez Johnson. I've written that at the Athletic. I have no problem talking about that here. Uh, I think they're gonna have to move up to get MZ Johnson, which is where again, like getting a pick like number 26 or whatever, trying to do some deals or things like that to use your cap space potentially could be of real value in my opinion where if you can go get a, you know, a late first round pick to try to bump up into that range, I think that would be incredibly useful. Otherwise, you're going to have to use your player assets. you're going to have to use future draft capital. Obviously, they have a million second round picks. Maybe they'd be able to use some of those second round picks to move up. Not impossible. But to to me, like if they really want a MZ Johnson, if they really want like another big man or maybe if they want like Axel Lindborg who really fits like the size, length, athleticism, physicality principles of Bryson Graham moving up into I don't think they have to move up into the top 10. Like I think that they're going to be okay actually moving into that like 11 to 14 range which shouldn't cost like a crazy amount of capital. Yeah, I like the idea of using an acquired 2026 first round pick and what we just outlined over a future first round pick to, you know, what we talked about with keeping our draft assets and capital or I would be more okay if it, you know, they just compiled some, you know, multiple second round picks together. But I would not want to move a future first if I was Chicago um to do something like this. But MZ would be awesome for them. I think that would be a great addition to this roster.

[00:39:48]>> Yeah, I think Merez is like the guy I would want if I'm them. I totally get it. And like I do genuinely think they would probably have to get up to number 11 to do that with the Warriors. I don't know if the Warriors are trying to move that pick to be honest. They might have to get up to number 10 even to do it like to try to jump the Warriors who I think are at least looking at Merez Johnson. I don't know if he's like top of their board or anything, but I think they're at least like you know trying to figure out if he's an option. Um, yeah. I mean, like Morz Morz is the guy to me. Like, if I can go get him, I'm all aboard that train. Um, who else do you think fits this organization given what it feels like Bryson Graham is trying to do?

[00:40:29]>> So, I think Cam Carr fits all of it except one of those pieces, right?

[00:40:35]Physicality portion. the physicality part, but if you're staying at 15 and you're not able to move up and MZ isn't there, I I think Cam Carr, you know, I don't know how much Listen, I don't know how like hard and fast he's going to stay to that, but I think Cam Carr at 15 would be would be a nice selection. Um, I'm trying to think of someone that fits all of I mean, if you want to stay big, I think Steinbach at 15 would make plenty of sense.

[00:41:05]Um, like those are the two names in that range if they're staying at 15 that that I like.

[00:41:15]>> I also kind of wonder if Dalen Swain fits what they look for.

[00:41:18]>> Yeah.

[00:41:19]>> For what it's worth. Uh, you know, again, size length, athleticism, physicality, great driver. He kind of has all of those principles uh to his game at the very least.

[00:41:34]Like I I feel like those are probably the guys though that we're looking at here. I mean, if Nate Ament fell, I guess I could see it, but I don't think he's going to get all the way to 15.

[00:41:44]It wouldn't I guess this is a team though where it wouldn't surprise me if they moved up a few slots. I think I would be surprised if they got a top 10 pick.

[00:41:51]>> Yeah.

[00:41:52]>> But I wouldn't be surprised if they moved up to that. Let's call it the 10 to 14 range. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

[00:42:03]Yeah. No, that makes >> 38. Throw out three names.

[00:42:10]>> Um, I mean, if he's still there, I don't think either of us think he will be, but Cariban, Emanuel Sharp, and I mean, the the one I always bring, Richie Saunders, like I I don't know how many of those guys are there at 38. Um this but I would like any one of those three guys for them if they were there at 38.

[00:42:33]Like you know if a team wanted to like if you had to attach one of your extra second round picks to go up and get them like I like those guys enough that I wouldn't think that was crazy. But those are three that immediately stand out.

[00:42:46]>> I think that I would say Richie Saunders is a great name here. I love that name.

[00:42:54]Emanuel Sharp is a great name. I love that name.

[00:42:58]>> Malik Brown is kind of an interesting name for them as like the undersized big who's like long and athletic and flies around the court.

[00:43:06]>> Super warranted. Yeah.

[00:43:08]>> Baba Miller is a name that like really tracks for a lot of the Bryson Graham principles to be honest.

[00:43:14]>> Uh just a massive long human being. Uh >> what about Brazil in that vein?

[00:43:21]Travon Brazil I think really tracks I was going to say Isaiah Nelson, Felix Apara like if they wanted to go big at 38.

[00:43:28]>> I think they would have options to go big. I mean not all that athletic >> I know but like but he 610 wingspan physical >> definitely physical again >> very physical.

[00:43:45]>> I think at 38 you might struggle to hit all four of these things. So >> yeah, that's true.

[00:43:53]Yeah, like Isaiah Nelson isn't overly physical. He tries to play physical though. I will say that.

[00:43:58]>> Um, you know, Brazil isn't very physical, right? Felix Apara is like kind of all of those things though. I will say that.

[00:44:07]>> Um, >> you know, Baba Miller rebounded the ball well this year. Baba Miller is the name that like at 38. I wonder if that's the that's the one that like ticks all of the all the boxes we're looking at here.

[00:44:21]>> Like it. Yep.

[00:44:22]>> Okay. I think that's all we got. Bryce, tell the people where they can find your work. Tell the people what's going on.

[00:44:28]>> Yeah. Motor City Hoops on Twitter, Blue Sky Substack. Go check out the Game Theory Substack where we have video breakdowns. Um if you, you know, if you didn't get enough Caleb Wilson talk in this, I promise you we have plenty of Caleb Wilson content for you over on the Game Theory Substack. and then keep it locked here for all of the offseason previews. I think we only have three more to drop. Um, we're pretty close to NBA draft. So, that's partially why it's a good thing we only have three more.

[00:44:53]And then, you know, stay with the the lives over on YouTube, whether it's NBA draft night or offseason, free agents, trades, all of that. We'll be covering all of those things.

[00:45:05]>> Go to the athletic, keep me employed over there. The draft guide is out. Go to the Substack game theory samv.substack.com.

[00:45:12]We appreciate everybody who comes over there to support what we do. Uh breaking down video on NBA players, draft prospects. We'll probably get back into NBA players at summer league. Bryce, uh I am looking forward to doing that. But that's all we got for now, Bryce. We appreciate everyone for coming through.

[00:45:30]Until next time, we'll talk soon. Bye.