HubSpot Spent $100M on Creators. Here's Why.

追加: 2026-05-28

[00:00:00]Today, you know, we're reaching 50 million people organically across a bunch of different platforms. I mean, are you able to track the customer journey down from subscribe to this podcast, subscribe to this newsletter, they engage with this lead magnet, they converted on this date. It's like minority report level analysis and attribution.

[00:00:16]>> Everything after the hustle has come from the creator program. It seems like that's the strategy you're sticking with.

[00:00:21]>> I think we have like a really strong playbook and we know it works. Success is not a format. Success is like taste in like talent and content. And if you don't have those things, it doesn't work.

[00:00:33]>> Hey everybody, welcome to New Media.

[00:00:35]This is the podcast for founders, creators, and publishers who want to better grow and monetize their audiences. And today we talked with Jonathan Hunt, who is the VP of media and content at HubSpot, a massive multi-billion dollar software company.

[00:00:52]Jonathan's also the head of the hustle.

[00:00:54]and we dove into why the heck is HubSpot buying so many media companies. They've acquired The Hustle, the My First Million podcast, Starter Story, Mindream, Future Pedia, and we dove into like why that's happening, who HubSpot Media is targeting, how they integrate these brands into HubSpot and add value to HubSpot, how they make money, how they measure the returns on some of these investments. I buckle up. Strap in. This is I I learned a ton. It was It was awesome to talk with Jonathan and just to see I know Matt, you and I worked at HubSpot. Just to see how much HubSpot media has changed over the last four like two years even is is pretty awesome. So I I really enjoyed the conversation. HubSpot has done the best job of a software company acquiring media companies. They have run that playbook better than anybody else. And today, Jonathan's going to explain that step by step for us, how you could apply that to your B2B or software business, or if you're a media founder or creator, how you could potentially be acquired by a huge tech company like HubSpot. So, let's get started. All right. Uh, Jonathan, why is HubSpot buying all these media companies? Like, I think that's a good place to start.

[00:02:11]>> Yeah. Um, so, um, just for those who are unfamiliar, you know, HubSpot has a media company within HubSpot called HubSpot Media. And the thesis here is that in a world where attention becomes more and more fragmented, people are turning to YouTubers, newsletters, um their social feeds, their friends, their WhatsApp groups, uh chatt claude, etc. that it's really important to own as much surface area as possible. And so, traditionally in marketing, you do that through paid media, both from a DR perspective, a brand perspective, an experiential perspective. uh in the old world of B2B, you would do that through blogging and SEO, but you know, one of the bets that we made uh a while back um was that we really have an opportunity to own more of the awareness and consideration for HubSpot through media properties that people trust and subscribe to. And so over the last five years, you know, we've been building up own and operated media channels, um, acquiring media channels like the Hustle, uh, and Mind Stream and Starter Story, but really with a focus of how can we engage audiences around core content pillars that are important to the HubSpot ecosystem, which are largely marketers, entrepreneurs, sellers, and AI practitioners, and do that in a way that um is actually entertaining and interesting and uh educational and isn't a product mouthpiece for HubSpot, but really tries to help you learn something that you didn't know how to do and then tries to convert you into becoming a lead for HubSpot, then hopefully one day a customer uh of HubSpot. And so we've continued to to see that strategy really grow and pay off for us both from, you know, a lead uh and customer generation perspective, but also, you know, today, you know, we're reaching 50 million people organically across a bunch of different platforms. And so we're also driving a lot of brand and consideration uh value as well.

[00:04:10]>> Yeah, it's fascinating. If people are like in the know around the media and like business media space, they'll know about this, but there's a lot of people who don't. I've always known HubSpot.

[00:04:19]Like when I first discovered HubSpot uh 101 15 years ago, HubSpot seems to become became known through SEO, through inbound marketing, which is the coin that HubSpot is has uh the term that HubSpot has coined. And um HubSpot and and you guys crushed it at that for for many many years, but it seemed like there was a point where maybe that channel was like saturated or it was just so dominant that you wanted to go in a different direction. And I guess that all started with the hustle, My First Million. But what's cool to see is it seems to be successful because you've acquired more media companies and if it wasn't working, I don't think you would have bought any additional ones. I I want to know like how a large software company like HubSpot thinks about these acquisitions and kind of go from like A to Z. So like what makes a media property or a creator worth acquiring?

[00:05:10]Like why would when would they be a good fit? Um and then how do you successfully integrate them? How do you direct these audiences and these brands to actually add value to HubSpot?

[00:05:20]>> I think it's first probably important just to kind of like um talk a little bit about our editorial strategy more generally speaking, which is really premised around the fact that you know there's a lot of information out there.

[00:05:32]Um like there's a lot of uh content that tells you what's happening in the world, news, thought leadership, op-eds, research, etc. But what's increasingly rare is content that actually help like helps you do the thing you're hearing about and implement the strategy or the tool or the process that you're trying to master. And so if you look across our entire media portfolio, across our 17 YouTube channels and six newsletters and 150 creator partnerships, everything that we do is really focused on how can we just help people excel in their careers, whether they're, you know, uh, associate marketers or CMOs or CRO or um, solopreneurs that, you know, don't even have employees they work with uh, and are starting a business from scratch. or maybe you are a business leader of a company of a thousand. Uh it really runs you know the gamut um you know of who we try to speak to but it's all centered around how can we just help you do something that really excels your career uh professionally speaking. And so, um, whenever we apply that to companies, uh, that we're acquiring or maybe medium brands that we're building, we really try to do it, uh, around verticals that map back to a specific product skew within HubSpot. And so, within the HubSpot ecosystem, you know, as you guys have, you worked on HubSpot uh, at some point, um, we have a product called Marketing Hub, we have a product called SalesHub. Um, as the name implies, it helps different um personas do different things and um we have uh a bunch of content um plays in media brands that sit within each of those content verticals. And so for marketing for example we have you know video podcast called called marketing against the grain uh for the entrepreneurship vertical we have my first million we have starter story and um what's really important to sort of like note is that all these media brands are editorially independent like nothing changes about the editorial strategy or how they talk about HubSpot if they talk about HubSpot at all. What changes is the monetization strategy. And so unlike traditional media models where you know you're just trying to get as many impressions as possible because you monetize that off of CPM or a guarantee to an advertiser, we're just trying to generate a high enough volume of high quality, high intent audiences, like people that are actually in the market to buy software and then um attach a companion piece of content to that video that they're watching um effectively called a lead magnet and get them to ultimately convert around it. like something that's so valuable that you'll want to press pause on that video podcast that you're watching, which is a very tough ask um you know of any viewer and then go to a website, give seven fields of contact information and then go into a nurture campaign. And so we run that same monetization motion for every single media brand that we own and operate in worlds where maybe there's a vertical where we feel like there's a lot of um white space that we just haven't been able to uh address or maybe there's like a huge TAM that just frankly like we aren't reaching enough of we might consider uh rather than building by uh and so I think that was um you know a good example of what we did with Mind Stream and with Futureedia was two examples which is we see that uh a lot of um AI practitioners are customers of HubSpots. What we don't really have or didn't have um you know a lot of is like a lot of AI practitioners like folks that are learning how to uh adopt AI but then use AI within their um daily professional lives. And so rather than trying to build that from scratch, we said okay like who are some of the best AI creators out there? um who are some of the best AI YouTubers and how can we start to explore whether it would make sense to acquire them outright and then give them the infrastructure, the resources, the capital, the distribution engine that they didn't have access to they can get through HubSpot Media and really help grow their brands. So uh how we've approached it before in the past is you know we have a program which is a creator program within HubSpot media that today works with about 150 different creators across marketing categories, sales categories, entrepreneurship categories, AI categories, CS categories, software engineering categories, etc. And we kind of use that as a testing ground. Like yes, it is an opportunity for us to work with, you know, highly trusted voices that have large audiences that might potentially be customers of HubSpot, but it's also a great way for us to explore, can this creator we work with consistently deliver um the right level of return on our investment month over month, quarter over quarter, year-over-year to the point where instead of just continuing to rent inventory, rent audience, um only work with them on a couple of their channels, would it make a lot more sense for us to have them join HubSpot Media? And you know, whenever we start to evaluate that, we look at a couple of different criteria, you know, one is like um do they consistently deliver ROI month over month as we discussed? The other is like do they just like working with us? Do we like working with them? Um, you know, Pat, it's a great example. Like just a really cool guy, like really great business strategy, great content strategy, easy to work with, gets the larger vision, really down to experiment. Um, and it just like there's a lot of chemistry there. And the same thing with the Future Pedia guys, the same thing with Sam and the Hustle, you know, the same thing with Mind Stream.

[00:11:06]Um, the third is like do they hit a certain threshold of audience scale? So oftent times, you know, we're looking for, you know, um partners through our creator program that set anywhere between a couple hundred thousand to a million subscribers. Um for newsletter, it's roughly the same as well. Um so like can we reach potentially a new audience that's never heard of HubSpot before? And then the fourth part is, you know, can we find a way to um augment what they're doing? like very importantly like are they doing things that maybe um aren't able to to really deliver on the full potential of their own brands that we could bring a lot of value to. And so uh if we can check all those four or five boxes then we start to explore you know like a deeper conversation with them to see if it would make sense for them uh to join HubSpot Media. And so, you know, we've done a couple of these deals over the last 5 years, um, three over the last year and a half. Uh, and they've all been really successful and they've really helped, I think, strengthen the creator economy, but also strengthen HubSpot Media's ability to reach um, entrepreneurs and AI practitioners at a point whenever they're deciding when they want to, um, you know, build their tech stack and choose the tools that are going to help, you know, grow their business.

[00:12:18]>> That's a great summary. And then just to clarify for people in the creator program, you're working with those 150 plus creators in a sponsorship capacity and that's your you're getting growth from that, but that's also a testing ground for potential deeper partnership.

[00:12:32]>> The way that we're monetizing our work with them is like less through, you know, brand endorsement or product demos and tutorials or hard-coded ads or programmatic ads for that matter. It's the same monetization strategy run for our own and operated properties which is can we co-develop a lead magnet with them that um brings a lot of incremental value to the viewer or the listener or the reader and then uh can we offer that for free uh and the free being like with an asterk next to it because we are trying to get them to become a lead of HubSpots.

[00:13:03]>> Did starter story come through the creator program or most of the >> Yeah, that's right. Uh they came through the creator program. we had worked with Pat and Sam um for a while before then and just really enjoyed working with them and continued to see like a lot of great uh success with that partnership.

[00:13:19]Um and the same thing with Future Pedia um and the same thing with Mind Stream as well. Um so we use that as a testing ground to would it make sense for us to potentially work with them on a much deeper level as opposed to trying to build the thing that they've already created and try to cultivate the audience and the trust that they've spent years developing. Uh, it just made more financial sense for us to go deeper with them.

[00:13:40]>> Yeah, I know. I mean, I I was looking at it before before this and it's a really cool program and I love that the uh the company that pioneered inbound marketing is pioneering like inbound creator talent. That's that's kind of what it feels like to me. And and it's also cool to see that you're having success with it because I know there's other companies that have tried sort of courting creators whether it be in B2B or the consumer space and and it can be really challenging. Like historically how a lot of companies have approached creator programs is extremely transactional. It's like, hey, I got to launch this thing, you know, huge creators that probably don't really have any uh embedded trust with the audience I'm going after, but they have a lot of scale and like how can I get them to read the thing or talk about the product uh that I'm trying to shill? And it just never works anytime. And so what I find is like maybe the the less glamorous approach is like like especially for HubSpot like finding these like really trusted B2B uh subject matter experts within domains that they um like are arguably some of you know the smartest people in. And then can you work with them to create um a lead magnet or an offer as we call it that provides incremental value to their audience like something that they couldn't get anywhere else with the exception of that creator. Then how can you make the creative like the creative execution of delivering that message as native as possible? Like we're never giving like scripts to creators. Like we'll give them uh supplemental assets if they need to like have better visuals on screen whenever they're talking about the thing that they um are trying to generate interest around. But we're never saying like, "Hey, say these things." We say, "Hey, do what you uh believe is in the best interest of you and your audience that you think is really going to resonate with them." And nine times out of 10, it works. Um so you definitely think about it more as a relationship.

[00:15:37]Um, we're not just working with creators uh on sponsorships. We also bring them out to our inbound event, which is now called Unbound, which happens in Boston every September. Um, we're integrating them into other programs like a HubSpot for Startups program, distributing them across our network. In some cases, we're co-developing content with them as well and like launching new media brands together. So, I think what creators really like about working with us is that, you know, um, one, it's like less less sales. Um, two, it's, you know, uh, actually giving them the creative and editorial freedom, uh, to be able to do what they do best, uh, to do it in a way that like really connects with their audience.

[00:16:19]>> I want to come back to maybe launching new brands together later, but just to make it super clear for the listeners, let's list out all the acquisitions that HubSpot has done. and I'll do it and then you correct me if I'm missing anything. So, the hustle, my first million, um, Mindstream, which Mindstream is a newsletter publisher and they publish lots of content about AI, their AI practitioners, starter story, entrepreneurship category, Future Pedia, also in the kind of the AI category.

[00:16:46]Anything else that we're missing?

[00:16:49]>> No. Um, you know, I think the only kind of a collaboration on that is that, you know, Future Pedia is also three YouTube channels. Um, so it's future media, skill leap, and howinity. And they all kind of tackle AI in different ways. Um, some are a bit more kind of like 101, 2011, search driven. Uh, some are a lot deeper and like it's more just like great cloud design launch, like let me tell you how to master it in 32 minutes, like really deep dives. and the other is like a bit more superficial in the sense that like it's talking about the thing that just launched and why it's important but doesn't go into like the true nitty-gritty of what uh maybe a future might >> Yeah. And it seems like everything after the hustle has come from the creator program because the before the hustle and my first milling the creator program didn't exist. HubSpot media was a lot different. Um which is really interesting. It seems like that's the strategy you're sticking with, right?

[00:17:41]you don't do you not do you see that changing in the future or is like you going to keep running the playbook over and over again?

[00:17:47]>> I mean we're always opportunistic uh about interesting conversations um and you know if it makes sense to explore it outside of the creator program like we'll definitely have that conversation but I think we have like a really strong playbook and we know it works. Uh, and it's just, um, you know, proven to be like a really great way of just making sure that like not only does it make sense for us, but like it makes sense for the creator as well before they decide to join HubSpot.

[00:18:14]>> Yeah. The last question I had, just one follow up on that is it seems like um you you gave a really good summary of like how you show if they're a fit or not. Like do they fit into these product categories? Do they cover space that we haven't covered before like AI for example? Does channels matter in that though? Because if we look at, you know, the hustle was mostly newsletter, my first million is podcast, starter story, YouTube, Mindstream newsletter, like and also it seems like it's kind of gone more from newsletter to YouTube. Does that like how do you think about when you're looking at these acquisitions or even people in the creator program, but I want to focus on acquisitions. How do you think about not just audience size, but what channels matter to HubSpot?

[00:18:58]>> Yeah. Well, um you I think you're right in that our our um our strategy has evolved since the initial acquisition of the hustle, which you started from a place of newsletter and website and then obviously we really scaled up my first million, launched other products on top of that, but it has shifted more toward the world of YouTube first and then newsletters. And there's a couple of reasons for that. Um video as a format, it's pervasive. It's it's like literally the currency of every single social platform out there. earns an investment in video especially on YouTube can be repackaged in ways that allows you to show up on X, LinkedIn, IG, Tik Tok, uh, etc. It can also be reversioned into nonvideo formats really easily. So, you know, you have a video transcript, you can easily repackage that into a lead magnet, into a blog post, into a newsletter blurb. So, it's very versatile in a way. the distribution is obviously a lot different than newsletter where newsletter in order to reach new audiences you have to acquire those audiences right and so either you're going to do that organically through potentially partnerships uh or through um paid media whether that's like high quality paid media co-edge whatever it is but to in order to like reach net new audiences to be able to potentially convert into customers of HubSpot uh with YouTube a lot of that distribution happens through suggested video and through browse which is completely the organic and is in theory reaching a net new audience. So, um that's another reason why we really lean into harden into YouTube. And the third is that we just see higher conversion rates as well. And so, um we find that people whenever they are um watching a video, they're doing it intentionally.

[00:20:39]And so, the intent is a lot higher and therefore the engagement is a lot higher whenever they click on a link, land on a landing page, and then decide whether or not to engage with a lead magnet. And so that's why we're so bullish on YouTube.

[00:20:53]And then for newsletters, um, you know, it it's tried and true. I mean, the hustle works. It has worked. There's a reason why we acquired the hustle. Uh, Mind Stream continues to work as well.

[00:21:04]The cool thing about a lot of these acquisitions is that they're not just singular monolithic like channel media brands. Um, with Future Pedia, you know, you had three YouTube channels, but you also had two newsletters, uh, a couple of websites, a ton of social extensions.

[00:21:18]Uh the same thing with Mindere, you know, Mindeream wasn't just a newsletter on Beehive. It was also um Matt and Adam and their large LinkedIn followings as well, their large ex followings too. And so um we do really try to lean into video first, but oftent times it's it's video plus a lot of other channels as well.

[00:21:36]>> That's interesting, especially the conversion piece. That's one. Everything totally makes sense there. And the conversion piece is not what I expected, but it >> the the intent is so important. So that's exactly it's interesting to hear that there's even higher conversion rate. I've I've heard that and seen it a little bit, but >> it's good to hear from you. There's a lot to unpack here.

[00:21:55]>> What do you think about um monetization?

[00:21:58]The strategy has always been uh for HubSpot and for other brands who have done similar things, which there's not a lot of other brands who have done similar things to HubSpot, but is you know a lot of these are advertising based businesses. take all the advertising away, place in HubSpot monetization through lead magnets and other promotions. Like, do you think that could ever be a negative? I guess this is kind of hard to explain, but me and Colby have seen this with lots of media companies where like when all the ads come out from third party brands, sometimes things can get messed up in ways that we never expected. I think well I mean my experience with the hustle you know we got a lot of feedback that people really liked our ads and we and we put a lot of effort in I used to write them all and we we put a lot of effort into making the ads great and it was something we called native advertising right it's an ad written in the brand's voice and some of the feedback after the acquisition not much but we did receive some feedback yeah was hey what happened to the ads we enjoyed the ads the ads were also sort of a discovery channel for entrepor reneurs and small businesses to discover these other startups and tools that were interesting to them and solve their problems and by taking that away you know they they felt like they lost something they lost a feature of the newsletter because of that. Can I add one more perspective to that Jonathan before we get your take on all this because it's a big topic and I want to just let you run run for you in a second. Um, another one potentially, this is really only for newsletters because I think for a YouTube channel, taking away all the thirdparty ads and then just bringing in HubSpot makes a lot of sense, but for newsletters, because you need to acquire more audience. Um, one concern is the fatigue, like if every ad is for this brand or HubSpot or whatever, does that get fatiguing? And I'm sure you found ways to address that that I want to hear about. And then number two is if you got to acquire more people to bring in more people to the newsletter so more people go to HubSpot would it make sense to keep you know 25% of the ad inventory 50%. And then just take all that ad budget and just reinvest it into subscriber acquisition for example but take that however you want. There's a lot there to unpack.

[00:24:02]>> No. Um um Colby uh the thing that you were talking about um it's 100% true.

[00:24:07]Um, you know, I think in in a lot of instances when a company acquires a media brand and just strips out all the third party advertising and all you see is like the same brand over and over and over again, it does get fatiguing and it's fascinating. Like I've heard something similar, not about HubSpot Media, but about other acquisitions where people are like, I really like the advertising. And if you would have told me people said they want more advertising like 10 years ago, my mind would have exploded because we're really allergic to that as well because we've tried experiments u and this predates me a little bit but like where we would just take inventory that we were generating whether it was on YouTube or the newsletter and you would just have like a a HubSpot 30- second uh TVC just like hardcoded into the video, right?

[00:24:56]So, like think of like something you would see as a True View pre-roll on YouTube or on an SVOD commercial or like a pre-roll on any video. Like that would be hardcoded into the content. And it got to the point where we did see comments where people are just like, "What? Like like I'm not going to buy your software. Like it's a cool ad, but like we're not going to buy it." And what we found is that what that didn't do is it didn't provide like value, you know, like like you weren't getting anything out of it. it was just like a really transactional and kind of um I don't know naive ask of the audience, right? Um like why would you click on that thing if you just see it over and over and over again and by that time you've sort of like put on your blinders. So the way that we kind of circumvented it is we do try to lead with um the payoff and the value first in all of our advertising. And so, you know, a good example uh is like, you know, whenever we um you interviewed Scott Galloway on the My First Million pod a couple months ago, you know, we worked with him and his team to co-create uh a piece of content that captured um some published some unpublished sort of insight, you know, around like uh business principles that he himself applies to boards he sits on, businesses he invests in, businesses he advises, what he teaches at NYU Stern.

[00:26:13]etc., and then turn that into a piece of content that was something that people actually wanted to engage with. Like nowhere in that, with the exception of a watermark, did you see the HubSpot media branding, it was really Scott, his expertise, and the content. And that was really the thing that we were trying to sell people into. And the thing we found is that if you do that with a high enough um variety and frequency, you don't get that kind of fatigue because you're not hitting people over the head with HubSpot, HubSpot, HubSpot, HubSpot Media, Hubspot Media, HubSpot Media.

[00:26:42]it's really about just like fresh new content that provides you, you know, information or value that you didn't know uh and can learn from. And so that's kind of how we've addressed it.

[00:26:52]And ever since we've implemented that at a much larger like onetoone scale where ideally every single video um has a unique piece of content that is based on the topic of that video. um we've seen like a pretty significant decline in people, you know, complaining about ad fatigue or that they're being hit over the head uh with HubSpot branding. Matt, to your point about like the reinvest, like that's a totally valid thing. we've um we've flirted with this like you know whenever I first joined um like like any uh media operator um I kind of just like did my homework and really dug into the business how it was operating uh if there were opportunities that maybe we weren't thinking about and one of the ones I did was aren't there ancillary monetization models beyond demand generation that we're leaving on the table right so like could we potentially uh sell sponsorships uh that were cannibalizing our demand genen efforts could we turn on programmatic advertising on some of our channels. Uh could we hire a third party sales agency to rep us uh in um places where maybe we were under monetized or weren't seeing a high enough conversion from like a demand gen perspective? And I'll be honest, like the math just didn't math at all relative to like the ROI that we're seeing from demand generation and customer generation from our media investments. And so that's all to say that like we do have third party monetization turned on in some select instances and we do use that money to reinvest into growth. And so YouTube's a good example where uh if you watch any of our videos like you will see a true view ad like the first thing whenever you watch that video and there's a couple reasons why. Um, one is that the belief is that YouTube prioritizes things it could also monetize and therefore by leaving that review on like you're also like getting a little bit of favorable real estate within the algo.

[00:28:43]Again, they'll never tell you if that's true or not, but um a lot of our own analysis leads us to believe that that's like actually the strategy. Uh, and so we actually then take those profits and reinvest that into newsletter growth, um, thirdparty partnerships. Um, and then also just like staffing up from like a freelancer perspective, like bringing on new editorial talent to contribute to the hustle to our other media brands. Um, so we do find ways to reinvest those profits into growth for our newsletters, our YouTube channels, and our websites.

[00:29:13]>> Yeah, I think it what I described sounds good in theory, but it becomes operationally complicated to have, oh, we got 50% inventory, but we can only work with these advertisers, then we have to manage these salespeople or this third party sales organization. Like, it could work for some people. it just becomes the business becomes less focused and HubSpot it's a good product that has a high LTV and like you make a lot of money promoting HubSpot so it's like there has to be a really good reason not just to only promote HubSpot and the lead magnets that lead to HubSpot like you bring up a good uh kind of like implied question around like how we measure uh the ROI on those investments and like we talked a lot about demand generation there's also like two other legs to that stool that we really think about uh and measure And one is um brand awareness and consideration as a result of being exposed to HubSpot. And so in a normal world, you know, you would buy this inventory on a monthly basis, whether it's on Meta or on X or on YouTube or with a media partner. Um in this case, you're generating it organically. Um and so as a result we are exposing you know 50 sometimes higher million people to the HubSpot brand every single month through newsletters, YouTube, our creator partnerships etc. So we measure a lot of brand awareness and consideration metrics some of those like upper funnel like qualitative metrics that are a little softer and harder to correlate back to business impact but it really augments how we think about the lower part of the funnel which is all like lead genen QL gen customer acquisition etc. And then what we also uh measure is like what is the equivalent value of that organic inventory you're generating. So again like in any other company you know buying 50 million impressions depending on the platform would probably cost you a couple hundred,000 if not more. Um you're generating that for free uh if you don't count you know like the headcount investment and the opex investment. But that's compounded growth that organically generates in a lot of cases across all of our channels and continues to grow month over month. And so that's how we've continued to sort of like measure uh our success internally and kind of like benchmark our teams, but then also be able to report back to the business the impact of those media investments that I think a lot of companies have had a hard time rationalizing.

[00:31:29]>> Yeah, that's totally understand. I want to um Colby and I have a couple more topics related to like HubSpot operations. Then I want to spend the last 10 minutes getting your reactions to some things uh that have similar lines but are outside of HubSpot like other acquisitions, other media and SAS companies teaming up or software companies and tech companies teaming up.

[00:31:50]I is the HubSpot attribution model like when you sit down and look at the entire media landscape that y'all control. I mean, are you able to track the customer journey down from like the the they subscribe to this podcast, they're subscribed to this newsletter, they engage with this lead magnet, they converted on this date, and now they're, you know, XLTV. Is that as sophisticated as it is internally or? Yeah, it's like minority report level kind of like uh analysis and attribution where like Yes, exactly. That's the exact level of fidelity that uh we're able to to sort of look into on a brand by brand, channel by channel and sometimes video by video or newsletter send by newsletter send level where we have the ability to measure obviously lead generation but then lead to qualified lead. If that qualified lead then ultimately leads to a deal create whether that's a self-service motion like someone uh goes to hotspot.com and signs up for um a demo or ultimately an account themselves or if a sales rep then uh ultimately closes the deal themselves and then able to measure that to ASP it sold for based on whatever product they bought then to MRR then ARR and then a forecast of LTV based off that that newsletter send or that YouTube video or that channel, which is really helpful, you know, uh it's really helpful to have that kind of like fidelity because it allows me then to, you know, sometimes make tough calls on like things to divest from or things to really invest even more into or um talent decisions. Um it really runs the gamut. Um so I never had that level of fidelity before other media companies, so it's nice to finally have that HubSpot.

[00:33:37]>> No, that's awesome. That's like a an operator's dream to have that level of detail. I guess like what are some like that leads me to ask this question. What are some of the levels where you know you'd have to cut talent or is like is break even good enough? No, I what is a typical return?

[00:33:56]>> Yeah. Um you know it really depends um you know in the AI vertical for example we see um you know greater returns sometimes depending on the channel than we do in like the sales vertical for example. And I think that makes a lot of sense like a lot of folks are, you know, trying to either learn how to adopt AI or apply AI to, you know, their daily uh professional lives and therefore they're consuming a lot more of that content and therefore the intents a lot higher and so we see just like like higher conversion rates. But you know I will say um you know one of one of you know one of the calls that we made early on because of that data was no more audio only podcasts like um if my goal is demand generation and obviously brand's really important but like harder to track right if my goal is demand generation the inability to attribute a listen to someone becoming a customer because they can't click on a link or oftent times they decide not to go to the vanity URL that was uh talked about within the live read. Um it's hard to make make sense. Um and so we made a pretty significant pivot a couple years back where it's like if we're going to do a podcast, it has to be a video first podcast. Audio is secondary to that.

[00:35:14]Video is the primary format. And so what that also meant is that we did have to close down a couple of podcasts and a couple of creator podcasts as well because they were not yet shifting into this video pod first world and were very kind of like focused on audio or maybe just didn't have the resources to be able to to expand beyond audio into video.

[00:35:33]>> Fascinating. Let's um we go outside HubSpot a little bit and just kind of get your take on a couple things. This one's kind of in between that, but who who do you think's building something cool in like the business media space?

[00:35:43]like >> who's your next target?

[00:35:45]>> Yeah, >> I'm not necessarily looking for targets, but it's like, oh, this is this brand, this independent brand now is doing things, right? And because people can look at these, you know, four examples of companies you have acquired.

[00:35:57]>> Yeah.

[00:35:58]>> But they want to find more examples to emulate.

[00:36:01]>> Um, so if anything comes to mind, let us know.

[00:36:04]>> Yeah. I mean, um, it's a little non-traditional, but I really do love Puck. Um, I just think it's like an interesting media model. I think the the product they're creating and the talent they have on their bench is exactly what audiences are looking for now. maybe even more so than before whenever like you know there's just a glut of AI content out there and very little or the the the ratio between commodified knowledge and original insight is becoming like a little bit more lopsided because of that huge expansion of AI content or just like general information content when you have you know really dogged reporters that are deeply sourced and have like a lot of great scoops and interesting information that can't get anywhere else. It increases your currency and makes you a lot more valuable and therefore makes people want to subscribe to you and pay for your business. Um, and so, you know, there's things about that model that I think they probably haven't been as um as aggressive on like video, for example.

[00:37:08]Like they're very much still audio and newsletter and website and have kind of like dep prioritize video, you know, just because maybe it was a bit of a distraction early on for like a small company. But, uh, I do think their their ability to to break news, to scoop, to, you know, employ some of the best trade journalists in different, um, categories is like really impressive. And I think they they probably have earned a lot of trust from high value audiences that, you know, we we often times try to appeal to as well.

[00:37:40]>> That's a really interesting example. I'm glad you said that one. It wasn't what I was expecting because they're we talked about a lot of these like educator expert publishers and they're in the the analysis analysis journalism, you know, scoops business. So, it's very different than what I was imagining. Um, can we give you a couple different uh examples where a media company and a tech business have collabed or done some type of deal and like you give us your reaction and maybe any hot takes you have on on the deal. TVPN.

[00:38:10]>> Okay. I mean, this is kind of what I wrote about in the Fortune article. Um, I think it's great for the creator economy. Um, I don't fully believe that OpenAI really know what they were buying. Um, I think probably there was a lot of hype uh that went into doing that deal. And I think, you know, John and Jordy, like they're great on camera, great production value, got great guests. Um the scale is super small, but potentially it's a high intent audience.

[00:38:40]Um what's very unclear is like how they plan on monetizing that at all cuz like if you don't have a lot of scale, it's kind of hard to then convert that into a a meaningful enough uh volume of customers um that justifies the you know reported $200 million price tag. And so uh I'm like interested to see what happens with it. But first blush, I definitely felt like it was more of like a in the- moment kind of like a hype buy. Um maybe with some business sally behind it as well.

[00:39:13]>> Interesting. Okay. Uh here's some smaller ones, but still really interesting. Uh Robin Hood and Sherwood News. Do you know anything about that or do you have a take?

[00:39:22]>> Yeah, I mean I talk to Josh all the time. Um you know, we sort of cross paths at the Verge as well. Uh I I think it's interesting. I mean the monetization model is obviously not demand genen for the app. It's more um advertising supported which I think there's obviously regulatory reasons why that is the case but also feels like a miss not to try to you know turn I think it's like 20 plus million users that are subscribers into potential customers for the business. Um, but I think they're like a great example of like um, you know, trying to own media for an in like for an industry that doesn't really have a whole lot of like modern solutions for it. You know, they have like MLY Full, you have Yahoo Finance, like they're kind of like older brands and I feel like they've done a good job at trying to to modernize um the the optics of that industry and do so in a way that is delivered to your inbox every day. And there's only so many examples we can even discuss. So what one question I'll ask you is like are there any other examples of people who tech companies who have bought media companies that you feel like has done have done a good job with the target the integration? If there's not that's okay because there's not a lot of examples but >> uh No, it's interesting. I mean like um I think Href spot someone as well, right? Or was that SEMR that bought search engine land or >> I I think it's Yeah, it's HFS bought search engine land. Serush bought back linko. I get confused between the two because they're competitors. Yeah.

[00:40:49]>> Yeah. I don't know much about Back Linko. Um like I am interested though kind of skeptical on uh the A16Z new media um model as well.

[00:41:00]>> Tell us about that. Yeah, I don't know a lot about that.

[00:41:02]>> You know, they launched uh monitoring the situation right off the the sort of um heels of the OpenAI TVPN acquisition.

[00:41:12]Um, it's interesting, but it's a carbon copy and it is very much focused on a very specific ex audience. Um, and doesn't really have the same uh production quality, charisma of talent, um, caliber of guests. Um, it feels like there's probably like a lot of hype in the very beginning and they've been able to kind of somewhat uh, maintain it a little bit. But um what I'm always kind of wondering with examples like that with TDPN is like what's the endgame? I just don't know what the endgame is. I don't know what it ultimately is meant to become. Uh if it's like a thing they're building that they hope to um spin off eventually or if it is meant to be something that brings in new LPS or like whatever it is, right? Uh for um Andre and Horowitz. Um, so, um, I'm kind of just like waiting on the sidelines trying to understand like what's happening there and like what they ultimately make of it.

[00:42:08]>> Yeah. What is the goal? Is it controlling the narrative? Is it bringing in more founders, more LPs?

[00:42:14]There there are some really cool B2B podcasts that like just serve LPs like David uh David Weiserberg, I think, has 10x Capital or it's not it's not called How I Invest. Um, that might be like a better play. But yeah, I don't I don't I haven't followed A610Z New Media closely. I know they talk they uh kind of acquired Eric's company um Tarpentine and he's like a really great talent and their YouTube presence has improved a ton, but it's hard to get a handle on what's going on there.

[00:42:42]>> And I guess that's what I'm getting at is like the um the thesis is not clear uh in terms of just like the why behind it all. Um and maybe that's not an issue for like us to figure out. maybe it's like known within that organization, but I am interested to see like how that pans out uh because you are starting to see like more of those like TPBNesque models crop up uh over the last couple of months and there's only I think like so much room for a unique format.

[00:43:13]Ultimately what it comes down to is is the content like is the content good? Um you know like success is not a format.

[00:43:20]success is like taste in like talent and content and if you don't have those things it doesn't work.

[00:43:26]>> Yeah. Don't tell us HubSpot's looking for a live streaming show.

[00:43:29]>> No. No.

[00:43:31]>> Is that a gap? Do you think that's a gap? Do you think because we Matt and I talk about that like hey maybe that is the future of B2B media is more kind of like this setting but live streamed and and us interacting with our audience.

[00:43:44]Higher production. Yeah.

[00:43:46]>> Yeah. Yeah. I just um I don't know if I would launch something net new that was first and foremost a live product like I would think about live as being maybe like an extension of and so like we've done live extensions of my first million marking on the grant etc. And like I've talked about do we turn that into a repeatable series that happens at a certain cadence and so like I think that's how I'm thinking about live right now. It kind of derisks it a bit as opposed to starting a net new thing. And it also I think is like a great perk to the community like the fans that subscribe to you and want to hear directly from you.

[00:44:19]>> Yeah, I really like the thesis thing that you begin to begin. We kind of end with here too where it's like HubSpot has a thesis that carries over from the brands you acquire to how you promote HubSpot within those brands too, which is giving people actionable content to you improve their career, their businesses. You explained it better than I can. So, if other people doing this type of stuff don't have a thesis and are just buying it for fun or trying to figure that out afterwards, it may be difficult. But Jonathan, do you feel like there's anything else we should have asked you before we wrap up or anything else you want to cover?

[00:44:52]>> Um, God, I'm trying to think if there's anything else. I mean, I think I think we covered a lot of grounds like nothing else that really comes to mind.

[00:45:00]>> Yeah, this was honestly way more thorough than I expected because I had a lot of follow-ups that you answered. So, this was great. If people want to learn more about you or HubSpot Media, like where should they go? What what should we put in the description below?

[00:45:11]>> Yeah. Um I mean you can just email me like if you want to talk shop jayhonspot.com.

[00:45:17]Uh if you want to learn more about us, you know, we're my first million the hustle mind starter story futedia.

[00:45:24]There's too many properties to list, but you can find them all on YouTube in the newsletters.

[00:45:28]>> Yeah. And go go harass the HubSpot creator program.

[00:45:31]>> Yeah, exactly.

[00:45:32]>> I'm sure you'll get more of that.

[00:45:33]>> Yeah.

[00:45:33]>> Um cool. All right, Jonathan, this was great. Thank you.

[00:45:36]>> Yeah, thanks, Matt.