Gnosticism as Heresy (Part 1) - Against the Protestant Gnostics

Added: 2026-05-28

[00:00:00]Hello everyone. It's Father Ron coming back.

[00:00:05]Make sure my mic's on.

[00:00:08]I uh I just thought I'd pop in and do my second uh installment of the uh of the review of the book Against the Protestant Gnostics.

[00:00:23]So, I did chapter one already uh last time. Today is chapter two but not all of it. In fact I might have to divide it into three parts.

[00:00:34]So um with that um we will begin with a prayer.

[00:00:41]Name of the father and the son and the holy spirit. Amen.

[00:00:44]You have ascended in glory oh Christ our god granting joy to your disciples by the promise of the holy spirit. Through the blessing they were assured that you are the son of god the redeemer of the world. Amen. In the name of the father and of the son and the holy spirit. Amen with the feast everybody.

[00:01:00]So what can I say about nnosticism?

[00:01:03]Uh well last time we discussednosticism as a religion. Today we're going to talk aboutnosticism as a heresy. And one thing I want to say about heresy is that it's rather an abrasive uh term nowadays. Uh it always has been. Uh yeah I know it's late and I understand that.

[00:01:23]So, um, for those who are on the east coast, I apologize.

[00:01:27]Uh, you'll have to just watch it another time. I I just got a lot of things coming up and I needed I worked feverishly to get this this out today and um because well, we'll see. Um, regardless, I mean, we're in YouTube, so uh on YouTube, sorry, which means that you can watch this and listen to it anytime.

[00:01:52]Um, in fact, I've been told by many people that, um, that they just listen to it while they're at work, uh, you know, when they're, I don't know, hammering nails or who knows what. Uh, I doubt they're turning things up like in the shop just to listen to me for everybody. I doubt that. But, uh, regardless, I'm just going to I'm going to teach. That's why I'm here. I'm going to I'm going to teach. So, and no fanfare today. I know I asked people about whether talking head was was adequate and 95% said yes. So heresy is an abrasive word nowadays. There's been much blood spilled over the centuries. A lot of court time. I mean metaphorically speaking uh uh wasted on not wasted but used in the in not only the fighting of heresy but the the accusation of heresy.

[00:02:45]And often that goes both ways. In fact, it seems to be um flying overhead like airplanes back and forth. Uh and so but uh the difficulty with heresy is where do you draw the line? And so uh you know nowadays we have different tools and different understanding of things. Uh in the ancient church um they also were very very aware of this very very very early on. I mean it was almost like basically out of the gate they were dealing with issues and that's whatnosticism is all about.

[00:03:18]So having said that St. Augustine wrote salvo I'm not I'm going to butcher Latin salvo jur diversia centier which means without prejudice to the right to have different opinions. So again, if different opinions are tolerated to a point, uh what what is the line? And you know, we have something in the Orthodox church called theologa, which is I'm going to say in in a very loose translation, divine speculation. We we theologically uh speculate on things and uh you know read and interpret such things as the scriptures or the fathers and try to parse out what these things mean. And so there's a difference of opinion that is tolerated which is not the best word allowed let's put it that way within the church but yet we can remain in communion. we can remain within the bounds of the church.

[00:04:16]But uh there is a line where there is an utterly where suddenly teaching or or an opinion becomes utterly different in comparison to the apostolic faith. And therefore what kicks in is what is said in one of the apostas. I'm very sorry not a chapter and verse person.

[00:04:40]never have been, never will be where it says we must contend for the faith entrusted to the saints. So, and that was written in in the in the pastoral letters. So, obviously they were they were dealing with things and in my sermon uh last Sunday on the holy fathers of the first ecumenical council, I mentioned about St. Paul um pleading with the Ephesian elders because he said very specifically he said that you will have uh people from outside and within just going to quickly look at that and see if I can find that. That was in Acts. I'm pretty sure it's Acts chapter 20. I'm going to make sure. Yeah. So Paul is is pleading with the Ephesian elders and oh my goodness, how did that happen? I'm in NIV. Uh one sec here.

[00:05:29]RSV. Uh, he says here, um, make sure I got the right chapter.

[00:05:38]Uh, come on.

[00:05:44]Boy, this is not working for me today.

[00:05:46]Oh, it's up here. That's why I'm I'm in Chrome. Sorry, everybody. Goodness. Um, there it is. It says here in 28. I was looking at 20. It says um take ye to yourselves and to all your flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers to care for the church of God which you pertain with the blood of his own son. For I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you not sparing the flock. And from among your own selves will arise men speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them. And I said that last time about the Gnostics because uh it was first believed that the Gnostics were an external and they were uh I'm going to say largely an external threat but actually now that that's been flipped to being largely an internal threat. And so St. Paul actually straddles the two. He says it's outside and inside. Fierce wolves coming from inside. And so so therefore again where's the line between tolerance of you know uh differing opinions or theolog versus utterly different uh teaching than the apostolic faith. So that's what we're going to talk about today. So or another. So for example, in the Old Testament, uh you have um the worship of the golden calf and the heeding of false prophets were categorically destructive. I mean, there's a crossing of the line right there. In the New Testament, G Jesus shouted the woes to the hypocritical Pharisees. St. Paul again warning the Ephesian elders, I'm going to say bishops because it's Episcopus, for three years with tears. So you can imagine like I mean it's so it's a real real threat and he's basically saying fierce and he calls them fierce wolves.

[00:07:36]So it is proposed uh by Jewish philosopher Martin Buber um it is the most persistent and pervasive temptation to Judaism and consequently Christianity. Thus, as in the early church, the quote saving knowledge and even the magic of the not ofnosticism must be not be compromised with. And so, but yet, as we're going to discover as I go through this book, there has been compromises. And in fact, uh you will see a couple of them that I noticed as I was going through this study today. So, there's going to be one, two, three sections I'm going to go through today. Um, again, and that's just I'm going to say they're they're all pertinent, but I noticed that the very next sort of subsection is what where it really rubber really hits the road. But that's okay because we need to we need to build toward these things. So, number one, I mentioned this before in the first chapter.

[00:08:32]There are two different worldviews between I'm going to call the Orthodox Christians and the Gnostic the Gnostic faith. I can't even call them I really shouldn't even call them Christians.

[00:08:42]Although they were in the church and they were considered Christians, they were considered brothers. Um at least at for some time.

[00:08:51]So in in the Bible, biblical faith is that creation is good. Gnostic faith is to deny any direct link with God in the creation. So for the Gnostic, the world be is not created by God. It's created by sort of lowly powers. And that's where they came up with a lot of I'm going to say levels levels of powers or archons or rulers and or levels of heaven. And you know we we have we kind of have kind of this um happening in in the Bible itself. And so I'll see if I can find some here. Uh you know St. Paul basically says he says uh in the third uh you know I know a man who went to the third heaven.

[00:09:34]You see, so you have this you have this you have this n this um reference reference to these levels and then I'm not sure if it's in the duter dudor canon or if it's in the old testament I can't remember where we we mention actually in St. Basil's liturgy. We mentioned this. Um I'm going to quickly look for it because I think um uh it's again we have a different view but we acknowledge this uh the this sort of existence of of these different powers.

[00:10:10]Um I'm just looking here in St. Basil's liturgy uh talks about Oh boy, I probably should have prepared this in advance. Um let me just just give me one sec here. I know I'm going to find it as soon as I just see it.

[00:10:28]It talks about um oh here we you you are praised by angels, archangels, thrones, dominions, principalities, authorities, powers, and many cherubim. So what is that? angels, archangels, thrones, dominions, principalities, authorities, powers, and minion cherubim. And then of course the seraraphim, that's nine.

[00:10:49]And so the gnostic would look at that and say, well, that's the se that's the degrees of separation between God and creation because creation's bad and it cannot have anything to do with God. So you have to assign or um you have to account or allow for that that these intermediaries had something to do with creation because God can't have anything to do with creation. So that's the Gnostic view. And so but we see see we we talk about these things. we pray about these things. And so um anyway, carrying on now uh so the the um the challenge of of of internal gnostics. So one thing Philip Lee talks about is that the the internal the ones who are inside the church, the challenge was not to be too overt in their dualism. Don't forget these are pagans that came into the church with their gnostic ideas and tendencies and habits.

[00:11:51]And so uh the the challenge was that they weren't weren't going to be too overt. And for example, Marcian was very careful. Marcian was the one famously who basically said, you know, the Old Testament God, well, he wasn't an evil God. You see, he was careful with his language. He was a just God. Okay. And the God of Jesus is a loving God. So you see even the language is not as as you know abrasive and and and you know so uh so Marcian was very careful about that even though he functionally discarded the Old Testament and good portions of of the New Testament as well. Actually he liked Luke and and certain letters of Paul.

[00:12:38]The rest he had no use for. But he did this kind of stealthily. He did this very carefully. Uh let's see what else here. So, but what what I find most interesting is that it's not an evil god. It's a just god, you see. And so again, he's I guess he was kind of like ingenious that way. So on this note, Christ was also unacceptable as found in the New Testament. Valentinis, I've been saying Valantius this whole time. It's Valentinis created distance between Christ and his flesh. For him, the Virgin Mary was a canal through which a non-aterrestrial Christ merely passed through. Well, isn't that interesting because the first thing I thought about was notorianism. It's the first thing I thought. Now again that's not historianism but I I couldn't help but thinking about it about the idea that that Mary is somehow not the anything but theus so for notorian Mary is Christokus which means he g she she gave birth to the man Jesus and so he doesn't deny that he took flesh from her it's just that he's not one uh he's not also uh the one person of of the second person of the godhead who assumed human nature but for the gnostics No. Uh Mary is a canal uh through which and you know we've heard this I have been on X I have seen this um some Protestant people talking about she's just a portal. Okay that's that was t that was talked about by uh Valentinis.

[00:14:09]So uh because Christ is more of a spiritual being. He's a it's not even his body is not real. It's not terrestrial. That's why he did not take flesh from Mary. He's just passing through into creation. But he did certainly did not take flesh from her.

[00:14:26]So you can see if you have if you hear anything of this nature, you can think to yourself, well just a second, where have I heard this before? Well, it was very ancient. Uh uh you know um for the Gnostic, the parable of the wheat and the chaff, the separation of the wheat and the chaff was that the chaff represented the material world which is burned up by the cross. So you know St. Paul says we we don't we're not contending with flesh and blood with the powers and and actually let's have a look at that verse when when when see oh sorry wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong let's uh maybe I should actually show you I should actually bring this up here um share screen uh so let's go like this one uh sorry there we go so same Paul when he says flesh and blood and blood so you can see I'm going to just look that up because it's going to be easier here. Uh where did he say? Let's go 10 New Testament. I'm teaching you how to use um um uh there it is. Ephesians 6:12. For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of the present darkness, against the spiritual host of wickedness in the heavenly places. Now, so he says we're not contending with flesh and blood, but for the Gnostic, we are contending with flesh and blood. Flesh and blood is bad.

[00:15:46]That's okay. And so I'm going to be honest. I can't help but thinking about because John, the letters of John and certainly the Gospel of John are very anti-nostic. And now just now live on TV. I just thought about um about John 6 regarding this when how abhorent that would have been to an Gnostic to say that unless you chew the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. That's abhorentt to to anostic.

[00:16:15]again. Um, and so, but did that attitude creep in and find its find its way to carry through somehow to today? That's a good question, actually. So, let's keep going. Uh, even sexual intercourse was unacceptable. So, this is an interesting view of baptism. And and so uh for for for the for the for the ancient Jews um through via their Old Testament, they understood that that's how they knew God much like Adam knew Eve uh was through through through the scriptures and through the events of history. We have somewhat of that look.

[00:16:54]But but what is interesting is that for the Gnostic um they were they were sexual intercourse just produced more more human beings which is like anti-nostic you know they're not spiritual beings and so that's bad and so they looked at baptism very interestingly as a rebirth was to put an end to natural birth so the baptism was the alternative to natural birth and so that's the We don't look at it that way, but that we look at it as a new birth, but not one that denies our natural birth. For the Gnostic, it was an it was a replacement, so to speak, uh to natural birth because natural birth is bad. It has to do with matter. It has to do with the cosm of the world we live in. Now, there are numerous New Testament references that are strictly anti-nostic. One is Ephesians 3:9-10. So, let's have a look at that here. Um, Ephesians 3:9-10.

[00:17:55]Uh, this one says, am I still am I sharing? Oh, I never did add that to stage. I'm so sorry. Boy, oh boy, I'm terrible, aren't I? Um, if you look at this, look at this. So, uh, well, I'll start today. to me, though I am very least of all the saints. This grace was given to preach to the Gentiles the searchable riches of Christ and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for the ages in God who created all things. Like, okay, so there's a very um and then it says that through the church, the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. There's another I I again I I because I'm sorry I didn't show my screen, but there's another reference to this these these rulers that are um well they're not they're not they're they're not human but they're not divine. They're they're they are um they are the angelic powers so to speak.

[00:18:53]So um another one so that was one of them.

[00:18:58]Uh sec and so the second one which is even more explicitly anti-nostic and you can't miss it is 1 Timothy 4:1-5. So let's have a look at that one. 1 Timothy 4 1-5.

[00:19:13]Uh 1 Timothy 4 1:5. Okay. Now the spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared who forbid look at that who forbid marriage.

[00:19:31]Okay, we talked about that. And enjoying abstinence from food with God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good.

[00:19:42]That's a very anti-nostic explicit statement. And nothing is to be rejected if is received with thanksgiving. For then it is consecrated by the word of God in prayer. So in here uh so I'll keep going. That's the last of my verses for a while.

[00:20:08]And I'll just uh have a quick look at the chat. Um hello hello everybody.

[00:20:12]Okay, I'm going to keep going.

[00:20:15]So now Irenaeus, so you have um you have beginning very early on, you have the Pauline epistles and the Joanine epistles dealing with this directly and immediately because don't forget the epistles preceded the gospels chronologically in terms of their appearance, okay? in terms of their they're being written down and disseminated.

[00:20:41]But then the gospel of John following that is also very explicitly. Now the interesting thing about the Gospel of John is there's a lot of verses there that talking about knowing God and spirit and all that stuff and the Gnostics would just they just glombmed on to that but there's a sufficient counter uh text to that so that we can gain a better understanding and also but what and what I'm about to say is that it didn't stop with the the New Testament probably is the champion of anti-nosticism because what Irenaeus did is He accused them of blasphemy and having an anti-gosspel. And he countered every anti-cclesial aspect of theology that the gnostics had brought up because the gnostics were very very much against the church specifically the church. So number two following overt dualism is the doctrine of salvation. St. Paul beautifully brings the correct understanding in Hebrews 1 and2. Uh so let's have a look at Hebrews 1 and two.

[00:21:44]Uh add that. Okay. So, Hebrews 1 and2 uh there we go. So, it says here in many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets. Okay. So, uh but in these last days he has spoken to us by a son whom he appointed the heir of all things through whom he also created the world. Now, this is an interesting thing to tack on in the end because it kind of is implied everywhere. If you read all that, it's almost implied. But but the truth is is that what you have in this very beautiful text is you have God, okay?

[00:22:21]You have son, okay? You have that sort of diad. You have uh where is it here? I had a couple of others. I have to check my notes here. You have uh oh well, okay, Old Testament and uh New Testament. Okay. And you also have um uh where is it here? Um you have well I guess it'd be implied what's my last uh history and nature because he created the world. He created the world but it started from old right okay from old. Um so you have what you have here in this beautiful text is you have um nature so all are brought together and is the object of true knowledge and I said confer Romans 1 so let's have a look at Romans 1 here uh Romans 1 uh it says down here uh the wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness and wickedness for what can be known Look at this. For what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible nature, his eternal power and deity has been clearly perceived in the things made so that they are without excuse. So there you go. You come to know God through what you through through the creation because he's the one who made it and by this we come to know him. And so if you don't see that or deny that, that's an act of will, by the way. And that's why he goes after those guys. I mean, if you look at this, look at look at this. Therefore, God gave them up. Okay? Uh for this reason, God gave them up. Well, it's I think there was a third one. There you go. God gave them up. Okay? So if you if you deliberately don't see and by the way you do because it says here uh it's uh a plain to them. Okay it's plain to them.

[00:24:30]So therefore it's a deliberate act. If you deliberately don't see and then you go and worship you know idols and all this stuff as they talk about then God's going to basically say okay you're going to get it in spades.

[00:24:44]kind of like in numbers you want quail it's going to come out of your nostrils.

[00:24:48]Okay. So let me keep reading. Um so fornostics the center is the the center and point of departure is man and contra the knowledge of given material private vision is their principal concern. So so in opposition to what the creation of God and what is and coming to know God through what is seen. No, it it's completely and utterly turned inward in and and the only thing that they're concerned about is private vision. Okay? So, you see the contrast.

[00:25:22]It's plain for everybody to see versus it's privately given to you. And so, again, you can put these things together on your own, however you want with your own experience. So um now so therefore history is not for anostic a conveyor of revelation. It's merely symbolic. It in other words knowing Christ is not according to historical revelation but private perception according to the gospel which is solely for enlightening the soul. And thus mankind's problem is ignorance.

[00:25:57]Ignorance of the true knowledge of true knowledge. So e so so therefore for the gnostic everything in history so I mean just start at the beginning creation the flood Abraham Moses the people of God the flight from Egypt the prophets uh the return to the land uh the the the coming of the Messiah his death his resurrection all that is reduced to God being a revealed to what is to be known and let me add privately privately to the individual. So they see that as something that only has to do with God I keep hitting my mic revealing what is to be secretly known. So you see it goes very much against our faith. Our faith is the opposite. So now um butnostics being of course I to let me just see if if there's anything I will answer questions if you want. Uh and I again my deepest apologies for those who have to go to bed. You're going to have to watch this later. Um, so now, uh, Gnostics understood this. Um, and that's why I said they were kind of they kind of in many ways they were overt, but many ways they were covert. Um, they they would look at things and interpret things carefully to show how it ultimately had to do with the self. Um, but for the church, the Old Testament was a pattern and a foreshadowing of salvation in Christ, but it was also the display of the mighty works of God with and through creation. And so again, plain as they open to everybody to see and understood and comprehend. So finally, I guess this may not be a long live stream after all. I don't remember what I started, but it's not going to be very long. Finally, for now, for today, there is a contrast between escape and pilgrimage. This is probably the most interesting part of today. Orthodox Christians understand that we are on a road which is a present struggle and we sojourn in a in a spiritual desert and sometimes in a physical desert. In other words, we have to live in this life and and which will come to an end when Christ comes again. And so we understand that we're on a road and we have to we have to compare this to our understanding of Israel coming out of Egypt, you know, the you know, under under the oppression of the devil and uh being rescued through baptism, but having to walk through the desert to get to the promised land. Um and so but when we get there, we have to behave otherwise we get kicked out, right? And so I mean the nice thing about the story of Israel is that they go they get I mean heaven would be metaphorically uh or the land would be metaphorically heaven. And so you can see what at least at this stage during the Old Testament you can actually get kicked out of heaven and have to repent and return. So not so much the same for us uh for us now. But uh for then they almost got a second chance. By the way, having said that, I will say this. If you the Bible is to be read like this, boy, let I'm sorry, I'm looking at my screen here. Uh the Bible probably is best understood this way. We are always the we are always in the position of the second chance. You have to think about it that way because it says in the Psalms and other places, don't do what your fathers did. So, we're adopted into the story where our fathers have already screwed up. We're adopted into the story where the first generation already died. So we are once we enter the Bible, we are immediately in second in the second generation. We've already been warned when we come into the Bible. Think about that. Think about that. We're already in the second second place. We're already in the second chance. Okay? So you can see the gravity of the situation. You see the urgency. And this is reflected in the scriptures. So, um, and yeah, it says always a second chance. Well, but at some point it's not going to be though, right? So, um, yes, God gives us multiple chances. But again, if you to understand the Bible correctly, you kind of have to put yourself in a position where I just got here and some guys went ahead of us and screwed up and we're told how they screwed up. So, we have no excuse to do what they did, right? So you can look at it that way. So let me just keep reading my notes. So um now the contrast with the gnostics and between the Orthodox Christians are escape versus pilgrims. Orthodox Christians I said we're on a road. We have a present struggle but it will come to an end. And then Philippians 3:12-14 talks about this. So Philippians 3:12-14 let's have a look at that.

[00:30:52]It says here St. Paul, not that I have already obtained this or am I already perfect, but I press on to make it my own because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own, but one thing I do, forgetting what be lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead. I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. So, we're on this pilgrimage. There's no question about it. and um with that but and so I'm back to my notes. Um so that implies struggling with against which that hinders us found in this world. So our struggle is not just um spiritual but there's physical there's physical struggles. I mean I said I mean you know I mean I'm just just consider how we all age. Amazing what amazing what friction can do to people, right? So um but for the gnostics this is unacceptable as the world must be turned away from it must be escaped from and because they are spiritual their home is anywhere but the cosmos. So they have to somehow teleport outside of the cosmos. There was this um although it's not outside the commas.

[00:32:05]There was this sort of weird group like heaven's gate that ended up they ended up committing suicide ma mass suicide because they were trying to get to the comet. I remember which comet it was. um that was around the year in the 2000s.

[00:32:18]Uh so again trying to escape the world but um they do it spiritually and that means this means and this is very important that God cannot be pursued in any material way either natural or historical which also means neither through time or through space. So anything having to do with the cosmos, history, nature, time, space, I don't know if I've missed anything else has to be some you cannot access God through that. So it's only through spirit and that's it. And that's very interesting because I was just doing a catechism on the book of Genesis. By the way, that's coming by the way everybody. I'm going to be doing uh Genesis.

[00:33:04]And um one of the things I want to show you about Genesis, here's a little preamble, is um you'll see how God creates time. If you look at this, okay, this is a teaser. If you look at the Genesis, God creates time because he says here after he creates day and night, look at this. He says uh that he made two great lights and he set them in the firmament. Uh where does it say here? Oh, for signs and for seasons and for days and for years. That is the creation of time. Okay. But the Gnostic does that that's that's not good. He has to escape time because it's a part of the created world, right? So, uh, now, uh, I'll just I'm I'm I'm coming close to the end here. So, um, but therefore, uh, so, but here's the thing about escape. Escape is a double-edged sword. And for the Gnostic, they are escaping from the reality of this world, from the materiality of this world, from the from the drudgery and the the um the hindrance of the material world, whether it be time. Time has to do with death. Space has to do with limitation. I mean, I I know I listed other things in the last class, I can't remember, but it's all limiting. And so, therefore, they have to escape from all of it. But here's the question. If they they they're escaping from the error of the cosmos, but where are they escaping to? That's the question. And so P St. Paul understood the futility of this. And he talks about this. He uh in in 1 Corinthians 2 uh 2 3 and 8-9. Let's have a look at that. 1 Corinthians 2 3 and 8-9.

[00:35:02]1 Corinthians.

[00:35:04]I don't know if I've got the chapter right. Uh let me just double check. Uh so sorry.

[00:35:10]Oh, maybe it is correct. Uh let's have two three.

[00:35:14]Uh so no, that's not correct. Um let me just double check a reference here. Um I'm just off by one chapter 13. Why did I put two? That's silly. I'm going to correct that in my notes right now. Um because if I you know I end up sharing these ever. Uh so if you look at 1 Corinthians 13, my apologies, you'll see it says right here. Let's go back.

[00:35:45]Uh two, if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, see that? And all knowledge, if I understand it, and if I have faith so as to remove mountains but not have love, I am nothing. So this is going to come to play later. Uh 8-9 says, "Love never ends. For as look at this, love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away. For tongues, they will cease.

[00:36:08]As for knowledge, it will pass away."

[00:36:10]This is the big thing for the Gnostic, right? That's the escape route. And that's that's what it's all about.

[00:36:16]That's what God is that's why God came into, you know, that's what what the Old Testament's all about. It has nothing to do. It's all about, you know, so you can escape. uh a new testament it will pass away for our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect but when the perfect comes the imperfect will pass away so again so that's one uh aspect um the other one is St. John um also uh deals with this 1 John 2 3-4. Let's see what I've got here. 1 John 2:3-4.

[00:36:48]Okay. 1 John 2:3-4. I think this one is quite explicit.

[00:36:53]Uh where is it here? 1 John 3:4.

[00:36:57]Uh 1 John 3. Come on. 2 3:4. My apologies. It says here, "And by this we may be sure that we know him." Okay? If we keep his commandments, by the way, which are written down, okay? He who says, "I know him but disobys his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him." So, I mean, talk about a stab in the in the heart of a gnostic, right? Um, but also what St. John does do is love is the real test. Uh in 1 John 4:20 and 3:14, 1 John 4:20 and 3:14. Let's have a look at that. Uh 4:20.

[00:37:46]Uh it says here, "If anyone says I love God and hates his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot be cannot love God through whom he has not seen." You see? So, it's through what is seen. That's very anti-nostic. And I said 3:14. That's the last verse. This is a real uh interesting one. Um it says, "We know that we have passed out of death into life." Make sure I'm you're I'm sharing my screen. We know we have passed out from death into life because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. This is like I remember talking with somebody yesterday on on Alex's channel about what is it that you know we're always looking for the epist ep epistemological foundation of our faith and over and over again we have things that are difficult to pin down but you have to see it with spiritual eyes and that is this look at this uh we know we have passed from death to life and you know what notice like Ryan will Ryan from need he needs god.net will say that but he'll never say this because we love the brethren which is everybody in front of us right so you know it's actual okay that's how we know it's because we love people not because you know all the things that he comes up with so and let's have a look I think that's very close to the end of my notes um okay therefore through so in conclusion through escape the gnostic can be a secret crit now actually this is sorry this is very important last statement through escape. The Gnostic can be a secret Christian, one who is on the side, so to speak. But for the Orthodox Christian, being a true Christian is inextricably bound with the cosmos until we return to the dust and even then it remains bound. So this is the interesting thing is that we struggle uh we have to struggle with our our salvation is wrought is is accomplished in and through the cosmos and curiously um we're so inextric inextricably bound to the cosmos that even in our death when we return back to dust it still is no see you understand so let me just excuse Yeah, it was a little bit of and then finally St. Paul but St. Paul recognizes that he says this very interesting thing. I know you know the verse uh he says here as I have final sort of two verses here two different places Romans 7:24 and 2 Corinthians 5'8 Romans 7:24 you know these verses so if we go down to 24 it says here wretch that I wretched man that I am who will deliver me from this body of death so you might think that you you can bet the Gnostics would have picked that up and ran with it and also 2 Corinthians 5'8 And you can see that this one also might be seen something that the gnostics might have loved and that is this one.

[00:40:53]Uh start with uh yeah just we are good cou we are we are of good courage and we would rather be away from the body and home with the lord. So again that's the end of my notes. You you obviously have you see you have to understand these things in the context of the of the whole package. I mean, you can't just pick these things out. Of course, gnostics are going to do that. But, um, but ultimately, don't forget, I think the sort of the main thing that I got out of this is, um, I was quite amazed that Valentinis came up with the idea that the Virgin Mary was just a canal for an an a non-aterrestrial Christ. And I thought, okay, because they're gnostics were what known as dositus, that Christ's body wasn't real. can't be because that would mean he would be part of the cosmos. Um, and they well, okay, I'll answer your text in but also I learned about and I think it's the last thing I put in my notes here about the fact that and this is very interesting is because it St. Paul and St. well St. John in particular talked about love of the brethren and so our salvation is if you don't mind me saying I've used this in my sermon on Sunday is accomplished laterally. Okay there. Okay. So, in other words, um, if I may say, if I may be so bold to say, uh, a standalone on the side secret, me and Jesus and my Bible, conceivably can imagine that they are born again and have nothing to do, never mind the church, even laterally, with with other people, okay, and still imagine they're Christians. So, but that's not how it works. I mean, I in my sermon on Sunday, you can look at my channel and see it. I talked about the fact that no, it's and I pointed to the church. I I pointed all around the church. This is the flesh of Christ in perpetuity. What you're looking at is the flesh of Christ in perpetuity. So, no, you come laterally to the church to access God. For the Gnostic, you don't even have to have anything to do with anybody because you're escaping into yourself and you're teleporting out of this cosmos. somehow. So, it's all internal, it's all spiritual, etc., etc. So, um, okay.

[00:43:21]Uh, I'll quickly look at the chat. I I am done. So, if you're up late, I again, I apologize for the suddeness, but I needed to get this out partially because I'm going to put out my second catechism, and I talk quite a bit about not only this chapter, but subsequent chapters. So, there's going to be some repeat, but I think the second my second catechism is is is is well, it's it's okay. So, okay. Uh late. Yes, I know it was late. No judgment. I'm watching.

[00:43:49]Okay. I'm packing in for a big move and it's late. Great timing for me. Oh, good. That's a relief. Uh so, um Well, hello Idol Killer. Hello. What time zone am I in? I'm in the mountain daylight.

[00:44:03]Mountain time. Mountain time. So, I live in Edmonton, Alberta.

[00:44:07]Uh, we need to get father on an ad blocker. I'm getting there slowly, but you know what? I can't. Okay, I got YouTube Premium now. So, that's a step in the right direction. So, um, and then, um, keep up the great contact. I hope you like it. Um, let's just see here. Uh, Protestants call her a vessel, the Orthodox Philip. That's very interesting. That's gnostic.

[00:44:34]That'snostic.

[00:44:36]my opinion she is Jesus's biological mother not merely a vessel absolutely uh okay is this related to how protests believe if you recite the sinner's prayer and believe you are saved well okay but you see now you see you can see how there's connections made from the past to today that it doesn't it doesn't appear the same way you would never label it the same way but if you've got okay I like to joke this way if you go to your car and under your windshield is a act that talks about the what is it that you're you know you're a sinner and that Christ you know saved you from the wrath of God and all that stuff and you say the prayer that's on that tract and then all of a sudden you're born again and like what 37 things happened to you at once Shazam and you're a Christian and you haven't even interacted with anybody else well I think that's elements of ancient nasticism okay there's things lacking like escape teleporting out of the cosmos of course but there's elements of that so again but that's what I talked What else?

[00:45:37]Uh ad block just use Brave browser. It blocks I think I've been told about that before. Um what else here? Uh do not believe Christ can't be in the cosmos. Correct. He's he's not he's spirit. And they'll use things like um let's see uh I mean there are certain ones I didn't pull them up.

[00:45:57]I should have probably there are certain texts in John that that lend to this thinking. They're not explicit though.

[00:46:04]Is it related to a process? Okay, I said that. I did that. Um, what else? Imagine calling your mom a vessel? I love you, father, and I I am grateful for your love. Um, uh, okay. Uh, do most pe uh do most people who are from your area pronounce Theoccus as Theotokus? This phenomena is all throughout Pittsburgh. I mean, I always believe that the people from from P So, Pennsylvania is like Orthodox Central. I mean that's because all the there's a large population of Carpatho Russians came there in the late 1800s mid 18 mid late 1800s.

[00:46:42]Um you know you have Alexis Toth was from there and there's all these Eastern Catholic um Carpathians and who eventually joined the Orthodox Church and I and my my understanding is that's that's a good portion of the today's OCA for example.

[00:46:59]So I say theotocous. Um I don't certainly don't say theoticus like they did in my the Baptist college where I took Greek. I don't know how I kept a straight face but they but and in their defense they they are using what's called the Raspian pronunciation which I have been slowly trying to do off of for quite some time now. I'm trying to use modern pronunciation but sometimes it's difficult and I have to really think about it. Um, a Theotoki. Um, maybe in the Greek church. Wonder how Kelly Powers pronounces Theocous.

[00:47:35]I think I just got that. Is that the guy that's couldn't pronounce uh Filioqua?

[00:47:40]You said Filui or I thought uh I actually thought of a new one. Uh, Filo Wookie from Star Wars.

[00:47:53]Remember Jaba the Hutty said Kawa Wookie. Well, how about Filawuki?

[00:48:01]Okay. Uh, okay. Uh, let's see. Uh, anyway, I think I'm probably You guys want to go to bed, so I know Phil Kiwi.

[00:48:16]Anyway, okay. Um so um yeah I'm all this filawookie filawoki and all that stuff.

[00:48:23]Yeah. So uh so what's coming up? So this is the end of today's lecture. I'm going to I'm going to say a prayer to end this. So if you want to depart I'm going to say the prayer of the kaken of ascension and then I will tell you what's coming up.

[00:48:39]In the name of the father and the son holy spirit. Amen. When you fulfilled the dispensation for our sake and united earth to heaven, you ascended in glory, O Christ our God, not being parted from those who love you, but remaining with them and crying, I am with you and no one will be against you. Amen. In the name of the father and the son, holy spirit. Amen. So, what's coming up is a couple things.

[00:49:00]Uh I think I think I mean I have so many projects it's not it's not even funny. I used to do with I used to do the book of Genesis. Um, so that's at some point coming up. And that one's a fun one.

[00:49:16]Look at I just showed you a little bit today. Um, it's very, very, very revealing. Genesis. And, um, I've got it all written out already. It's all done.

[00:49:25]I did it years ago. And I might supplement it a bit, but it's all there.

[00:49:29]And I did it for catechism. I'm doing a sort of a private catechism with some parishioners right now. Um, that went very, very well. I'm surprised. I'm I kind of basically hit the ground running. It's been so long, but it was it went really really well and um was very wellreceived.

[00:49:46]Uh today, just because uh just by fluke, uh somebody gave me the idea that maybe I should do a children's type uh scripture study. They said age 3 to six, not too long, you know. And I thought, oh gee, I mean, it's been 22 years since I've spoken to a three-year-old.

[00:50:08]So, uh, I would really have to think about this, but, um, that's might I might try just one and as a as a pilot project and see. I'm not holding my breath on that one, though. That's I'm not Why would they listen to me? I wouldn't listen to me if I was a three-year-old.

[00:50:27]So, um, I got three-year-old join. Okay, maybe I should take that back. Um, um, okay. So, this must be uh Okay, sorry.

[00:50:38]Somebody's talking to somebody else. Um, okay. Uh, what would you Oh, I saw this one.

[00:50:45]What is the church's position on kissing your girlfriend, fiancé? Well, just a second here. You telling me that the church has cannons on when you can kiss your girlfriend? I haven't heard of any.

[00:50:56]I mean, I'm not saying there isn't, but I mean, okay, you know what? Put cuffs on me. I I kissed my wife when we were dating. So there you go.

[00:51:10]Number one, you know, criminal here. So, I I I'm not trying to I'm not trying to minimize your concern, but um I think if I could be if I could be pastoral about this, um you know, obviously things like that can lead to other things. But as long as there's boundaries, I don't have a problem with it. But I'm not your priest. I'm not your priest. I'm not I'm staying out of it. this is my own this my own individual uh view of things. Um so again um but I don't think there's a cannon against it and I don't even know if people like myself should be involved in that. Um like if you know Father Hopkco said something very insightful to me that I have never ever forgotten and every time I do it I think of him and it's very rare that I do this. He says don't ever give advice unless somebody asks you for it. And so since I heard that like in the year 2000, anytime I offered advice, which would be like a dozen times between then and now, I always remembered that that Father Hop was saying that and I was very hesitant.

[00:52:20]It's scared me. He's frightened me uh into doing that. But it's true that um you know, I don't know if that's something that priest should be involved with. I'm I am not the type of priest that you may be uh familiar with uh in terms of sort of the landscape in in North America. I'm not one and I don't like to I don't like I don't like eldership. Okay, I'm going to be honest with you. Um like I always think, you know, we're big kids now and you know I mean if I wasn't here, what would you do? You'd have to figure it out, right? There's place there's times and places for those things, but I mean it gets to be it can get carried away.

[00:53:06]So that's how I see things. So I I Okay.

[00:53:09]What would you say to someone who claims Yeah, I'll do this. I should do this.

[00:53:12]What would you say to someone who claims Luke 17:20 is saying the church is not a distinct observable reality? Oh, that's very interesting. Uh let's have a look at that all together. So this is a a little afterparty here. Um uh that was Luke 17:20. What does it say here? Luke 17:20.

[00:53:30]I don't even know what that is.

[00:53:33]Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed. Nor would they say, "Lo, it is here. It is or there. Behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." But but but just a second here. I mean, could that not be the church?

[00:53:50]I don't know.

[00:53:54]Uh um you thought props were going to be nice about Jay Dyer and you call him a layman which they don't. I don't know what this is about so you'll have to. So that's the last comment. Okay. Therefore that means it's time to go. Thank you very much for your attention to this matter.

[00:54:24]That's that's not what you want to hear at the end of a letter from your boss.

[00:54:27]Just kidding.

[00:54:29]That's very I find that. But anyway, uh God bless all of you. Have a wonderful rest of your evening. I hope you enjoyed this class. The next one will be again nasticism as a heresy. But just to keep you um interested, the next subsection which is really got my um my interest is called um where is it here? Just got to Oh yeah, the knowing self versus the believing community. So it gets better and better as the book goes through. So all right, God bless all of you. Go in peace. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Bye for now.