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[00:00:00]um social work um mental health um sometimes you know an impression is made of them as as people and sometimes it's to do with um the religion as well. So this is something that you know I know it's very controversial subject so and it doesn't need uh you know I have to balance a lot of things in terms of I'm still in the profession and I have to make sure that you know um um but for me it puts me in a very unique position in a sense that you know um I can not only um show young men that they can join these professions and help their community >> um because in social work we work with boys who are troubled um and they need you know guidance male role models.

[00:00:40]>> Yes. Uh and for me I can put myself in that place and work very closely with those boys where >> you can relate to them because of their background where they >> very much so very much. I grew up in London, you know. Um, so I basically I'm Somali.

[00:00:54]>> Um, so as a parent, I would like you to, you know, be in a position where if a social worker knocked on your door, you can ask them, "Take your shoes off. You know, this is my house. You know, respectfully, you know, come um, you know, in a nice way. We're humans. We can talk on a human level."

[00:01:08]>> Um, instead of being fearful and, you know, being scared of these services and thinking that they're here to take my child.

[00:01:14]>> Absolutely. Because what would happen is um if My limit Please.

[00:02:25]I'm a mental health social worker.

[00:03:00]Social worker social worker.

[00:03:11]foreign.al.

[00:03:49]almost a year and a half.

[00:03:52]I'm grateful to you.

[00:03:54]>> No, thank you very much. It's an honor to be here. Honestly, thank you for having me. Thank you.

[00:03:59]>> Give us a bit about your background.

[00:04:02]Who's Abdul?

[00:04:03]>> Okay. So, um currently I work as a child protection social worker. Uh prior to becoming one, I was a mental health nurse. In fact, I'm still registered as a mental health nurse.

[00:04:14]>> Okay.

[00:04:15]>> Uh and also I'm also working on a book called Good Muslim uh bad father. Uh which basically um sort of explains the issues that Muslim fathers face when it comes to systems such as social work and and mental health. Um so that's my professional background.

[00:04:31]>> Tell us a bit about the book. It sounds great to me. Thank the title. I love it.

[00:04:36]>> No. So this is um it's I'm basically in initial stages. I'm still working on it.

[00:04:41]Um so this is what it hopefully is going to look like.

[00:04:43]>> Have a look.

[00:04:44]>> Um yeah, of course.

[00:04:45]>> We can show the camera. Yeah, go ahead.

[00:04:47]>> So um so this book basically um the idea of this book came about you know I saw the struggles that Muslim fathers face especially when it comes to >> services such as you know um social work >> um mental health. um sometimes you know an impression is made of them as as people and sometimes it's to do with um the religion as well. So this is something that you know I know it's very controversial subject so and it does need uh you know I have to balance a lot of things in terms of I'm still in the profession and I have to make sure that you know um it has ethical approval and all the rest of it but it's something that I want I've I've been trying to work on for a very long time and hopefully inshallah it can benefit a lot of people inshallah >> good father uh good >> good Muslim bad father yeah meaning like uh so for example sometimes a father is a good Muslim good practicing Muslim um sometimes a perception can he made that because of that >> he um he's basically you know not a good father.

[00:05:44]>> Yeah. Yeah. H >> how does how does the community react when you say this is the title of the book?

[00:05:50]>> Yeah. I mean the the the book the title is slightly controversial. So what I mean by that is for example sometimes being a good Muslim can be perceived especially if someone is not culturally competent in terms of you know how we are in terms of our religion and stuff like that >> sometimes like for example as a social worker you walk into a house >> uh and you find that the dad may take charge it's more it's more of a cultural as opposed to right >> it I I won't see it as like an abuse but for example a social worker who's not brought up in that environment might see that as you know um this dad is coming across as you know um basically he's controlling the mother do you see what I mean >> I got you >> um so yeah it's just these things that I I want to discuss it in the book I'm sure it will be a good read >> guys inshallah one of the books ready we'll put the link below >> so you can buy it read it and benefit it from we all we all need to benefit from inshallah I'm sure >> okay and tell me a bit about from mental health nurse to social worker that journey in between.

[00:06:57]>> Okay. Uh I think I have to take you back to the start. So I I grew up in in London. Um I went to school in this country.

[00:07:05]>> In fact, it may come as a surprise to many people. I actually left the school without a single GCSE, >> right?

[00:07:11]>> Uh and the reason being is because I went to an all boy school um that was said to be one of the worst schools in London at the time. I'm not going to mention the school name. Um but unfortunately um due to many reasons um you know I was um suspended many times from school.

[00:07:28]>> Um in fact I was labeled a a troubled child a label which followed me all all throughout my teenage years.

[00:07:34]>> Uh and I was excluded from school just before uh my my GCES. Uh >> crucial moment >> just very crucial moment very crucial moment but unfortunately that was the norm in that school. That was the norm.

[00:07:46]That was the norm. Um in fact um you know I don't want to go into too much detail but the head teacher of that school was uh eventually arrested for corruption. So you know misplacing funds for the school. Um there was a lot of sen children. For example myself I had dyslexia. It wasn't picked up on um I wasn't getting support in class as a coping mechanism myself. I used to disrupt the class. Uh and that uh and that's where the label leave for you.

[00:08:11]>> Yeah. Yeah. But they never picked up on it. So this is my line of work when we see that there's obviously things that we can put in place to make sure that you know they finish their education but that never happened for me unfortunately and the label of being a troubled child it stayed with me all throughout my teenage years. So as a result I spend my whole teenage years of doing nothing which like most teenagers nowadays.

[00:08:34]>> Um so uh in my fast forward to my early 20s um unfortunately during that time I've come across a lot of my peer groups who went to um same school or you know um who I've met some of them were going to prison some of them were ending up in mental health wards. Uh and I always said to myself that if I'm going to get a job it's going to be a job that can benefit my community. uh it's going to be a job that is that feels rewarding for me. So I started looking at you know what I can do and I came across mental health nursing. Um then that meant I had to go back to college do my GCCs again um which I've done uh and I did something called access course to nursing and then I eventually got into uni and did my bachelor's in mental health nursing. Uh I've worked in that field for a short while. Um, again, this is something that I often speak about on my on my TikTok in terms of what led me to the transition from mental health nursing >> to social work.

[00:09:27]>> Um, mental health nursing is a very good profession in terms of you can make a difference.

[00:09:32]>> Um, however, for me, I just felt like that I was being restricted in terms of what I can what I can do for for for the people that I'm working with.

[00:09:40]>> For instance, as a nurse, you're working on the ward. Um, for example, if you're working in high security unit, a patient comes not feeling well. You read their case note, you don't know too much details into what's going on outside, you know. Um, and a lot of it sometimes is to do with their upbringing, you know, from when they were when they was children.

[00:09:57]>> But by then it's too late. A lot of the a lot of the diagnosis are lifelong conditions, paranoid, schizophrenia, >> uh, you know, bipolar. And I I just felt like I couldn't make as much difference.

[00:10:08]um you know my my my role as a nurse on the ward >> was to administer the medication that was prescribed by the doctor.

[00:10:15]>> Um aside from that you know I may have one or two words with the patients um but primarily you know administer medication. Um I felt like the therapeutic sides or maybe you know actually stopping people from getting to this crisis point is actually missing from my role. So then I started looking into other professions and then I came across children social work. Of course, people that listening to this might think that's actually a worseer choice in terms of a career.

[00:10:41]>> Um, but I've read on it and I've come to realize that it's a vast area. It's not just limited to what most people think in terms of >> in terms of work. Uh, and a lot of it a lot of it, you know, for me what what drove me to, you know, joining that profession was that I could help children who might have been in a similar situation to the one that I was in, you know, because to be frank, I wish I had a social worker when I was in school. So maybe they could have advocated for me and you know and got an ESCB in place and all the rest of it.

[00:11:09]>> Um because this is what social workers do you know they make sure their job is to make sure that you know a child is meeting yeah absolutely safeguarding and also that they're meeting all their developmental milestones and you know they they're in education. Um so that led me to going back to university and then um I did a postgrad degree in children and family social work. um qualified uh and then I joined the profession and I'm now working for one of the local authorities in in London.

[00:11:36]>> Brilliant. I'm glad that you didn't give up, you know, after taking you out from school.

[00:11:41]>> Yeah. No, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

[00:12:01]when when it comes to general representation as Somali, whether it be, you know, ladies and men, >> um I think we are a minority within a minority, >> right?

[00:12:11]>> And by that I mean like for example, you know, minority, you know, you've got the umbrella bame group, you know, um but we are a minority within a minority. very that there's a very few professionals who are Somali in these uh professions.

[00:12:26]Uh and what I have come across is that very few tend to be women um which is a very good thing. Um but for me it puts me in a very unique position in a sense that you know um I can not only um show young men that they can join these professions and help their community >> um because in social work we work with boys who are troubled >> um and they need you know guidance male role models.

[00:12:51]>> Yes.

[00:12:52]>> And for me I can put myself in that place and work very closely with those boys when >> you can relate to them because of their background where they >> very much so very much. I grew up in London, you know. Um, so I basically I'm Somali.

[00:13:05]>> Um, and I can relate to them in so many ways than one because, you know, I understand the struggles that they face in terms of um, racism, in terms of, you know, lack of opportunities and, you know, in terms of the general day-to-day difficulties that they that they face.

[00:13:20]>> Um, but yeah, so for me, um, this is what I this is what I like to um, represent. This is this is this for me is very important. M >> um in fact when I did join mental health nursing and I told a lot of my peer groups who were male Somali a lot of them thought it's a profession for ladies >> okay >> they didn't realize that nursing you know mental health nursing for example >> for them the first thing that came to mind is you know cleaning diapers you know and again I I think um >> much bigger much bigger than >> of course I mean it's a you know it's um you know administering medications um like I said working very closely you know with people who are diagnosed with mental health conditions and these professions actually need you know male in general but more so I would say we definitely need male Somali males in these health professionals in general um because like I said we need to um you know be that uh point of contact for our young boys so that they can see us and you know think to themselves okay maybe this is a line of profession that I I I can do as well. So >> yeah, >> a lot of families terrified of social workers or they going to take our children then they take the rest.

[00:14:35]>> U the the the thought of your children being removed from from you by social workers is terrifying.

[00:14:44]>> Of course, >> but that's not the only things that they do.

[00:14:46]>> No, absolutely not. give us a overview picture of why would families children be removed for example.

[00:14:55]>> Okay. Um so like you know um they say in in the profession of social work removing a child is always a last last resort.

[00:15:03]>> And by that I mean after every single thing has been exhausted uh and even if it comes to that point of removal they always look into the extended families where they can place the child. So they do something called the viability.

[00:15:16]>> Absolutely. who's who's more suitable.

[00:15:18]Um I think a lot of the fear within our community, a lot of it comes from misinformation. Uh I grew up in a Somali household. Um you would always hear stories about something that has happened to someone. Um but we don't know the intricate details of what took place and that misinformation sometimes can lead to a fear of services that could potentially help you and put support uh in place. So for example, you asked me the question, what do they do?

[00:15:43]Um aside from safeguarding and child protection is is social social care is is a vast area. So you know you've got um child protection safeguarding you've got um social workers who work with children um you've got social workers who work with children who have disability. Um a lot of a lot of the work that we do the bulk of the work that we do is in fact supporting families. So I'll give you an example of a referral. referral comes from a school um saying this child is not uh um coming to school um as often or you know there's hygiene issues within this child that we've um we think that you know there's more to it um can you have a look so often times what happens is I work in assessment referrals like that as an example would come I would look at the referral I'll speak to the school who made the referral I'll speak to the parent I'll speak to other professionals who may be involved in that family whether it's GP nurses doctors whoever it may And then sometimes you find out that you know it may be something to do with poverty. There's financial issues and things of that nature. Uh and then we can signpost them. We can offer them we can we can offer them support. Um there's something called a a a you know a child in need plan which is basically all all around support supporting the child and putting a plan in place um that makes sure that the you know the situation is you know um basically um so that the family is is helped in a manner that you know um will alleviate some of the concerns that have been uh raised by other professionals. So, and sometimes you find that when families find out and we get involved initially they're very hesitant um you know they think okay my children will be taken away they're thinking of the west but when they find out actually no um I'm here I want to know like what's going on what's causing this and I'm offering you know services to say like oh maybe this can help you this so very quickly they find out that you know actually this this referral wasn't as bad as I thought you know these people are here to sort of here to help absolutely >> um and Yeah, I mean you know um it's a lot of it you know like I said is is you know um giving support to the families and you know sometimes of course there are you know things that lead to a child protection plan. So the there is you know usually when I do an assessment there are four likely outcomes. One of those outcomes could be case closure no further action. So for example the school made the referral um they outlined a lot of concerns. I've looked at the concerns and spoke to everyone and I said well actually no I I think different um I think um um these concerns are not there for example according to my recommendation and and you know um my investigations or and you know >> uh and obviously with the um with the recommendation that I make the managers then say okay closure so that ends in case closure no further action.

[00:18:25]>> Uh a second likely outcome could be um signposting to other services. So this is where I mentioned like for example a referral came um there are concerns and then you find that there are financial issues there's housing issues there are other issues that require help so then we signpost the families again this is not a statutory um intervention so and the families have a right to say no to this >> and this is something that I'm big on you know educating you know um parents to understand a little bit more of how services work so they know what to accept and you know what what to refuse and what to challenge >> um So this is you know a consent based.

[00:19:01]They can say yes or no to this help. Um a third likely outcome is something called a child in need plan. So this consists of a social worker being allocated to the family. This is a statutory service um that is offered to the family. Um this consists of a plan being made um around the concerns that have been you know um discussed with the family. Uh and a plan you know needs to be followed. So this um for instance there will be a multi-disiplinary meeting that will be held every 4 weeks with school you know all the professionals who are involved in that family's life to make sure that um we tick off all the boxes in the plan.

[00:19:36]>> Again very important to note this is also consent based families can say yes or no to this help >> you know um but you know uh the last the last one is something called a child protection plan.

[00:19:46]>> Now um a child protection plan normally happens when there's imminent danger of a child being harmed. So for instance, a referral has been made. Um there there's been some serious concerns um that have been you know um discussed with the family and they were offered the child in need plan. The family refused the child in need plan which they have a right to but this situation keeps coming back. Now it gets to a point where we think that the child is being harmed the child is in danger of imminent harm.

[00:20:12]This leads to something called the child protection plan. And this is why education is very important because a lot of the times especially in ethnic minorities this escalation happens due to lack of understanding of how the system works you know. So they don't understand that you know had they accepted the the support that was given to them under the child need plan these concerns would have been gone because um a support would have been given to them but they've refused because they thought the child's going to be taken away but then now they found themselves in a child on a child protection plan. Um so this is something that I'm heavy on you know educating families on. Um so with the child protection plan um unfortunately this is not consent based families have to engage. If they don't engage then there's legal repercussions um you know um >> because the safety and the wellbe of the child first. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah so this is a situation where um I'm saying this child is going to be harmed >> if x y and zed is not done.

[00:21:03]>> Um so yeah so that's >> and it reminds us the story of uh Victoria Colombia for example and stuff like that.

[00:21:11]>> Horrific. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:21:13]Absolutely. Yeah. I mean this is a profession where sometimes you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, you know.

[00:21:18]>> Um in a sense that um um I I would say that one of the reasons why I joined social media like many of my colleagues who are also on social media who I'm very much in contact with um some of whom who are also from ethnic minorities is one of the reasons why we joined is first of all we want to educate um people from ethnic minorities to understand how um the system works. Um but also we want to show that you know removing a child is in no one's best interest uh unless that child is in you know absolute danger of of being harmed.

[00:21:54]Uh and and it's always a last last resort and this is something that I'm big on you know educating um families, parents and especially my community on.

[00:22:02]It's very important that they understand these facts. Um because it's very important that they're able to uh challenge professionals who may at times you know look I'm not going to sit here and I always say this um and I will say it in front of anyone which is that uh um just like any profession I wouldn't sit here and say that um it's flawless >> that there are there are there just like any profession any you know they will always >> they're just unique to this >> absolutely and sometimes it could be a very individual individualistic thing.

[00:22:32]So for example they could there are bad social workers there are good social workers but my take on this is what I what I am big on doing is educating people on distinguishing between good and bad social workers so if they do get a minority bad social worker who doesn't you know do what they're supposed to um which is things that have been enshrined in law because at the end of the day we are governed by law. We come under the you know a lot of as a as a profession we um the one of the prominent laws that we work under is the children's act 1989 and it has a lot of acts that tells us what to do. So if this social worker is not following, you know, procedures and not doing properly, I want families to pick up on this so that they can challenge it and have a voice. And >> that's where education comes in.

[00:23:16]>> And that's where education comes in. And knowing your rights um rather than fear >> rather than fear, very popular What are the myths that around social workers you know and then by the time it reaches the third fourth person uh it's completely something different. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um personally from my understanding you know like I said I grew up in in a Somali household and I've seen it with you know as a firsthand experience. Um but also I've seen it as a professional as well. I think the biggest myth is that um once a social worker I mean once a social care referral is made your child is going to be removed. So for example like you know the examples that I was using schools make a referral um but you know there are processes that we follow. Um and a lot of these referrals sometimes end in case closure anyway or if if you know um we we believe that the concerns are not there and in other cases in fact the bulk of the cases most cases I would say they end in support being given. Um so the biggest the biggest myth is that um you know families tend to think that as soon as a referral is made whether it be a referral from a GP a referral from you know um schools they genuinely believe that they their childhood um and that's that's one of the biggest myths that I come across within within our community and a lot of it is u fear- based >> um and to be fair look I have to I'm a Somali um you know so I understand um I would I would say some of it is justified. Some of it is justified in a sense that maybe there may have been one or two parents who didn't understand the system very well who uh perhaps you know um had were on a plan of some sort or you know there's something that they didn't follow and one thing led to another and perhaps a child was was removed and maybe they weren't provided with the best of service that they should have. Like I was saying, the system isn't perfect and sometimes that that one story can get out of hand and scare the whole community into thinking that this is what the profession is about. You know, my take on this is that, you know, we live we live in this country. Um, a lot of us are raising children in in this country. So, it's very important that we understand the systems in which we're raising children on. Um, you know, some people ask me why do you work for social services? I mean, look, the the reason why I work for social services is because, you know, I want to help the communities that I'm uh I I grew up amongst. If if I'm not there, decisions are going to be made >> anyway, you know, and a lot of the times those decisions may be made in a sense from a point of view that it's not culturally competent, that perhaps may not challenge some of the narrative around our culture or around our religion, which is something that I'm able to do as a Somali professional. Um so yeah um I think the those are the myths that I come across but generally again a lot of it is just based on misinformation and just fear as opposed to actually factual based >> sometimes how do you square that >> okay Um that's a difficult question because I I I think I'll have to know the details of of of of the >> referral is unique and different.

[00:27:15]>> Yeah, every case is unique and and very much um different. Um so I I can give examples that I have I have personally come across >> similar in terms of a referral. So a referral a child went to school um 16 years of age you know a teenager said that uh you know um they don't want to live in their parents home because they feel like it's they've been um restricted from doing x y and zed um a lot of the time sometimes when you go to the family home um you you find out that there's a disconnect between the teenager who grew up in a western mindset um to that of of the parent who still holds you conservative values, >> conservative values, you know, um cultural cultural based uh and things of that nature. So when those two clash um sometimes what happens is there's a lot of um misunderstanding between families >> and there are cases where you know children go and you know tell school and school make a referral. When those kind of referrals are made again you know nobody rushes to remove a child. The first instance is to try to find out why is this happening and a lot of the times when you find out why is this happening you know it's not even it's not even um it's not a big uh of an issue is is a lot of it is to do with with mis misunderstanding you know for example you know >> um this this child feels that you know they can't go out with their friends and things of that nature. Um but then again you speak to the parent and you tell them um have you spoken to the child about you know the safety side of things you know instead of saying no you can't go out because then the child feels like you are you are being restrictive they don't know the reasons why so you know from young age you know if if you have the way I look at it is if you have that relationship with your child from when they were young where they can trust you where they can come home where they can speak to you about certain issues where you can you know speak to them about certain issues um you you're not going to have that problem for for the most part. You know, it's very rare for for a child to make up stories about about their parents.

[00:29:20]>> But a lot of the times, even when it happens uh and a child does say that, you know, this is happening at home, a lot of the times as social workers when we get involved, our first line of work is to try and mend that relationship, you know, uh signpost them to services that, you know, maybe where it's family counseling, see if they can sit down, talk, talk out, you know, their issues.

[00:29:41]Uh yeah.

[00:29:43]What happens if the parents completely avoid or or refuse to talk to the social workers when there's a serious cases because of fear that they may their children may be taken away from it. Not only that, but the neighbors will speak on their be behind their backs and before you know the entire London knows your household.

[00:30:08]>> S >> go ahead. Um yeah uh again this is um this is one of the reasons like I was saying why I have decided to come on social media and go on public speaking.

[00:30:17]>> We're very grateful.

[00:30:18]>> Yeah. Thank you >> because the work you do >> I mean I've been on social media for a long time but what you do >> I I would never be able to do it. We're grateful to Allah and to yourself the work that you do really you give time to the community. That's there's a lot to us.

[00:30:39]>> Go ahead.

[00:30:40]>> Thank you. I I appreciate that. Um yeah, but yeah, so again, I think a lot of it is misinformation, lack of education of I wouldn't say lack of education, lack of understanding of how these systems work. Um that can lead to that kind of fear and saying that I don't want to engage with social with social care. Now of course if a referral is made that that states that there are serious concerns with this within this family household um and you know a social worker calls you um to discuss those issues and you point blank blank refuse to uh engage sometimes what can happen is you can make your situation worse than it was before. So for instance, it may have been a case that this referral was made um which could have potentially ended up on a child in need plan which um you know is just for a period of time to put a support plan in place and case closure. Now what happens is because you've refused engagement, you're not opening the door to social care, social care is highly concerned about the child, they're not seeing the child, they haven't spoken to the child. Um now that social worker will have to go back and have something called a strategy meeting with other professionals in order to make a joint decision. So this would involve the police. This would involve um other professionals, nurses, doctors, um whomever would be involved with that family uh and social workers as well. Uh if a decision is made then to you know say now we're going to do this under section 47. Section 47 comes under the children's act of 1989.

[00:32:12]>> So a se a section 47 is basically a a child protection. It's all about child protection. is is basically um section 47 is usually uh put in place when a child is in imminent danger of being harmed.

[00:32:26]A child in need plan where the one all around support that I was mentioning earlier comes under section 17.

[00:32:31]>> It's slightly different consent based families can say yes or no.

[00:32:34]>> Um section 47 is one of the most serious ones is a child protection plan >> and families must engage. So now you went from not opening the door to social care, not engaging uh >> ignoring letters, >> ignoring letters, phone calls. You've now heightened the the alert of these professionals. They're now having meetings um that you're not that you're not present in >> um in order to discuss the next um step.

[00:33:00]So if in that meeting now is decided it's section 47 what would happen is um social worker will perhaps maybe try again to engage >> um no engagement um now we don't need consent to speak to your child if your child goes to school or we wherever we find your child we'll go speak to that child because it's not it's not consent basically now we want to make sure that child is safe. So now you've just made things worse um for yourself and that's why it's very important to know how the systems work >> and because that's important. I just want to narate that in social work.

[00:34:02]Victoria, social work to make sure social work center.

[00:34:47]No, thank you. Very well, very well uh uh explained. Um yeah, but that's that's a situation that could have ended up on a child in need plan which is consent based, which you know would mean that everything is consent based. So now as a social worker, if I'm involved under section 17 uh of the children's act, which is a child in need plan, I'll have to call you before I go to visit school, you know, uh I'll have to ask for your consent. Can I speak to your child? You know, with your permission. We're asking, we're constantly asking for consent. Um but you went from potentially that to child protection um because you know you you made things very difficult and you know the now the professionals are worried so that can potentially happen and that's why it's important to know healthy mental health one more let's say you worry about this child and you don't have a opportunity to go home and talk to them at home. When you're talking to them in school, we parent assume the worst.

[00:36:01]Yes.

[00:36:02]>> That's what we worried about.

[00:36:05]>> How do you balance that?

[00:36:07]Um the the thing is you know children um I have a saying like children never lie.

[00:36:15]They they they will say things though sometimes they it's not it's not a lie like for example something might take place uh in the house like for example shouting but a child you know in their nature being a child um they might they may say in a different way. So we take things like that into consideration. So, for example, when you're when you're talking to to a child, of course, you're asking very child friendly questions.

[00:36:41]You know, you're not you're not um going in heavy-handed asking them big questions. Um but a lot of the times, children do talk and they do say um what what takes place uh in the home. But of course, we cross reference that with speaking to the parent themselves. Um perhaps speaking to extended family to get a second opinion. Um perhaps speaking to uh school, see how they are in school. uh and and making sure that you know um that the child is not being harmed. The ultimate goal is to make sure that the child is safe from a child protection standpoint. Um but um I have I have come across situations where sometimes um children say something and then the next moment forget about the next day the next they change their mind you know they they tell you something is going on the next moment they they change their mind. we we take things like that into consideration and sometimes in those kind of instances what's important is how the the parent comes across as well because a lot of the times um you will find that um the way I look at it is sometimes if if a child is um bold enough to say things um generally speaking that means that uh you know they're able to say these things because they don't fear repercussions in the home >> you see what I mean >> but if a child is being apprehensive fearful to say certain and things and you know and children like for example yeah for example children if you tell them don't speak to social workers they would >> they may accidentally say it so they will say to you >> my mom told me not to speak to you know so they they will say this thing so we we we take things like that into consideration and um like I said we cross reference it with with parents uh we cross reference it with other professionals um of course if childrens do disclose something then um we have to monitor it we have to make sure that you know it's not happening and you know all the rest of it. Um but um as parents I think the best advice that I can give um is of course as a parent if a social worker says okay I'm going to visit the school to speak to a child um perhaps you can ask them can a teacher be present maybe a teacher that you're comfortable with who understands your family dynamic a lot better than this social worker who's known your family for a week.

[00:38:47]>> Do you see what I mean? So you can say can so and so teacher be in that room who you've built a rapport with who knows their family very well. um you know if of course um that doesn't uh cause a conflict of interest or we're not concerned about anything on toward then that shouldn't be a problem generally speaking you can do that. So perhaps maybe a request for you know a third adult to be present in in that room >> sorry a second adult or maybe another teacher.

[00:39:12]>> Um so that that can help. Um also you know you can ask the the social worker um what was said you know what was said what did my child say um you know is there anything that I should be concerned about. Um of course sometimes I think um as as uh you know Somali you know from the Somali community I think sometimes we're overly fearful and sometimes that fear may be misinterpreted by um other professionals who who perhaps don't understand the culture very well. Uh, for example, if I was to walk, >> that's why we need thousands of abdu that's what we need.

[00:39:47]>> Yeah. No, thank you. Go ahead. But for example, if I was to walk into a Somali family household, um, and I saw fear in their eyes.

[00:39:54]>> For me, I will see that as a protective factor.

[00:39:56]>> Yeah.

[00:39:57]>> I will see that as a parent who's concerned about their child being removed.

[00:40:00]>> I will see that as a child who loves their their sorry, as a parent who loves their children, >> you know. um other professionals would as well, but you know, not all professionals are the same. Um we all have different upbringings. Um though we're all taught to be culturally competent and understand people's cultures and respect it. Um you know, we all bring uniqueness to the to to to the role, you know, in terms of how we were brought up. And some of us are quicker at picking up signs of uh a parent, especially if they're from their own community, than others. Whereas others might misinterpret that to say, "Oh, this parent is hiding something." I may say, "No, hold on. This parent is fearful. You know, it's fearful of social services. Um, they just don't understand what's going on. Can we start from A to Z?" Just explaining what what we're all about, why why we're involved, making them feel comfortable. How about you build a rapport with that parent first, you know, uh, and see what's causing that fear. Um, so yeah, I think that's what we all, you know, as you know, people from different backgrounds bring bring into this profession. Um but yeah, I think it's also important for parents to understand that your fear can sometimes be misinterpreted. Uh and how you combat that is, you know, by perhaps um educating yourself a little bit more on how these systems work, especially if a referral has been made. So as soon as a referral has been made um you know find out um you know go Google is you know will tell you most most things you know if you Google the children's act 1989 you will know exactly from A to Z what you're what you're up against. Yeah mental health community they have their own way of dealing with it.

[00:41:48]and community and sto really terrifying and talk about a little bit about what you see and what you hear and what you read about mental health and our community in particular. M um when when it comes to our community, I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done around this because um I think there's a lot of again misunderstanding of how that system works as well. Um I would say sometimes even worse than when it comes to social services in one way because you know um there's one thing that I always used to hear is and the first thing that comes to mind is um you know these people will make you lose your mind. they want to help you, >> you know.

[00:42:35]>> Um, so there's a lot of misunderstanding.

[00:42:37]>> Uh, and sometimes also there's an Arab culture. So, for example, you find that a family um finds out their child has perhaps been diagnosed with drug induced psychosis, paranoid schizophrenia. These are you usually diagnoses that are brought on about by the use of of uh drugs. They find out and, you know, they want to contain that within the family.

[00:42:59]You know, they're hiding their appointments. Um sometimes you even find that um and I have seen this with my own eyes where for example um 18 19 year old would use drugs have mental health brought on about by the use of drugs you know so the the mental health was actually triggered by either them smoking cannabis or drinking alcohol excessively. Meanwhile the parents are clueless to this. To them their child does not do any drugs. They don't they don't know. um and the child hides hides this fact. Now as a professional you know this because you can read on the case history you see the diagnosis you know why this was brought on about. Now what you find what I what I have seen in fact with myself is that a lot of the times these young adults they say don't tell my parents what caused my my mental health. Don't tell >> they don't want to disappoint them.

[00:43:49]>> They don't want to disappoint them. They don't want to um yeah they don't want to bring shame on their family. Um but what that does in return is it makes that that person's mental health even worse.

[00:43:59]Um because there >> lack of support within the family.

[00:44:02]>> Absolutely. Lack of support. So for example, especially when it comes to substance misuse uh and and genuinely and I think maybe someone should do a research on this.

[00:44:11]>> I do feel like that Somali are prone to addiction when it comes to um drugs.

[00:44:15]>> Why would you say that?

[00:44:16]>> Um I I don't from my own experience what I have seen. Of course there's no factual research that I'm basing on my facts. Hopefully someone does the research but from my own from my own research >> um the you know the Somali that I have seen um in terms of you know who were admitted for using drugs and alcohol um a lot of them were easily addicted to to these um substances a lot more than um other communities I would say a lot easier in fact um but this is just an opinion so I should put it out there.

[00:44:44]There's no I'm not basing it on any factual.

[00:44:47]>> So are they using more cannabis alcohol or is it both?

[00:44:54]>> It's a variety of things. Yeah. Back >> all this bills and also >> Yeah. Yeah. So back when I worked um so I think I I left mental health during co times, >> right?

[00:45:05]>> Um back then >> that was the worst time though.

[00:45:07]>> That was the worst time. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:08]Yeah. Yeah. That was the worst time.

[00:45:09]Yeah.

[00:45:09]>> Um but back then a lot of it was especially from community alcohol. Um in fact alcohol um was was up there with one of another one was um cannabis. Um now now there's something called balloons which is basically a gas that they laughing gas >> that they inhale.

[00:45:28]>> Uh and this laughing gas what it does in on the system like scientifically it sucks B vitamin B12 out of your system.

[00:45:35]>> Yeah.

[00:45:36]>> Um and >> it drains all those resources. it it drains and that can cause psychosis. It can cause psychosis. You're hearing voices >> um you know and those those were the issues but um I was going back to the point um sorry before I forget you know like in terms of the things that can happen because of the shame. So I was talking about the example um something that I have seen so >> the the daughters and and the young you know sons of this family would say don't tell the family that I've used drugs.

[00:46:04]>> Yes.

[00:46:05]>> What happens is you discharge them into the community. Now the family is unaware that their problem is alcohol and drugs.

[00:46:10]They will take them to they will take them to they will take them to so many places but they don't know that this person is using drugs. Um they're doing it behind the family's back because they don't want the family to know. And what happens a lot of the times is with other communities um who are you know well versed with you know who who understand that mental health is very important that you know you break your leg you go to the doctor you have a mental health even more so that's when you should go to the doctor even quicker because early treatment is very important.

[00:46:39]>> Yes. Um so for the communities that do that a lot of they may res they may reverse the condition they may be able to offer their child um you know that that you know that um support and a lot of them may come out of addiction but what happens to that young Somali boy that young Somali girl is when they come out of the wards they don't have that support in their family cuz the family doesn't know they're using drugs so you know they'll relapse behind the family's back they will take something again and they will be back in the wards so I think as a community we need to understand that when people are suffering with these things that you know as a family more so even um before I even go to the wider community cuz I think that's a whole different story in terms of you know the shame culture some of the things that I see on social media sometimes you know people talking about their mental health you see people saying >> the most craziest things within within our community and personally I I don't know where that comes from um you know because at the at the same time all you're doing is you're putting your your people down and you you you're hindering your people from moving forward and you know >> um these these young people who are using drugs and alcohol they are our future they are our future you know I have seen I have seen very bright individuals who were sent away to university to study medicine to study you know big things they made one mistake you know in their life or you know there's sometimes there's peer pressure um there's you know it's it's very easy to get tempted because you're surrounded by people who are using and abusing drugs especially around university. You send your children to these places, they try something and they come to you diagnosed with the most serious of mental health conditions. Um so we need to raise awareness, you know, we need to um make sure that these people are supported and we need to res reserve um this judgment because it's not helping it's it's not helping the community. It's making things worse in my opinion.

[00:48:34]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:48:56]forch.

[00:49:32]too late.

[00:49:41]I want you out of my house.

[00:49:44]>> Where is that lead to this child or this young person?

[00:49:47]>> Um so what wi with that um of course parents have a genuine concern in that regard. what you don't want is you know the young the younger children in that family uh following suit. Um but this is where understanding how the system works so that you can receive a support that allows for this individual to you know get the best support without you know making sure that the rest of the family is is affected by the issue that this child is is I mean this um this family member um is facing. But if you isolate that that young man that that child, what happens is >> they would now use the drugs as a coping mechanism and you would all you're doing is making their mental health worse. So now what you've done is you've isolated from your family um and then now that's it you know they they they you know they become you know mentally unwell and what happened what what happens in anxiety and depression and stuff like that what happens why supported early help >> yeah you know like I was saying earlier early treatment of mental health is very crucial Sometimes you find that um you know someone has misused um drugs uh you know they didn't seek help until it's very late. In fact a lot of the times when it comes to uh men within our community you find that a lot of them never come to seek help willingly. Um, for the ones that I saw, for the most part, it's either they came through the criminal justice system after being sectioned. Uh, and a lot of the times they treated against their will because they're under section and they treated against their will. They never came voluntarily to seek help.

[00:51:32]>> So, what I have observed with that is a lot of the times is you find that when you read on the case not, oh, they started taking drugs at this age or um if there was intervention very early on, >> they wouldn't have been in the position they're in now. So for instance you find that now they now condition that now you know diagnosed with lifelong conditions because support wasn't offered at the early early stages. So now they have paranoid schizophrenia um things that they can only manage with medication sometimes for the rest of their life >> um which you know are very hard to sort of um treat >> um unless there's a miracle or something. So sometimes situations get get worse um if if you leave it late. So it's very important that when you see symptoms very early on that you seek that that support. And I think as a community sometimes we don't do that. We you know sometimes we we make excuses um because of you know the narrative around mental health but that's not you know everything is consent based. You go to the doctor, they're telling you um you know they they they've you know they've done you know whatever they've done. They've done the assessments. Um they've done all the scans that they needed to to do and then they they told you their diagnosis. Now it's upon you as a parent to go back home and read on this and see what medication can help with this. It's not like oh no they're asking you can you know we want to give and as you know these are consent based if even if the person with mental health if they have a capacity to say no unless they don't have a capacity and you know the rest of it they can also say no I don't want this I want this I think this will work for me so you're working collaboratively for the better of your mental health so is >> um you know a lot of it you know comes from misinformation misunderstanding of how it actually works >> and no one comes to you just with and say Okay.

[00:53:21]It doesn't work like that.

[00:53:22]>> Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

[00:53:23]Absolutely not. I think a lot of it what happens is sometimes, of course, if you know, in high security units, if if there's violent patients, um, sometimes they they may administer medication to calm them down, >> you know, if the person is kicking off and things like that.

[00:53:37]>> Um, but then again, >> why are you allowing to get to yourself to that level? Why don't you seek support very early on before, you know, your mental health gets you to a place where you then go and commit crime?

[00:53:48]You're now in the criminal justice system. You're now dealing with, you know, 10 different services, you know, the c the courts, the criminal justice system. You're in the mental health. So, you're lost in the system forever. You know, your mental health will only deteriorate from there.

[00:54:00]>> You know, why not, you know, when you saw symptoms, this child came home. Um, you s you saw the child disheveled one day, you saw your child every day, they're dressing well, they care, they take care of their hygiene, very small things that you can look out for as a parent >> and you see these things are deteriorating. You need to ask yourself questions at that point. You need to sit down with your child. What's going on?

[00:54:20]You used to do this. You used to go to the gym. You're not going to the gym anymore. These are very early onset signs that we need to, you know, look out for and make sure that a child says to you, I feel low now >> because exam is coming up, depression, they're isolating themselves a bit more.

[00:54:36]Okay. Go and seek support for that child. Yeah.

[00:54:39]>> You know, and sometimes that support is not all about medication.

[00:54:42]>> Maybe they just need someone to talk to.

[00:54:44]>> That's all it is. They just Yeah. And maybe um sometimes they don't feel comfortable with you as a parent. I mean no disrespect but I'm saying it happens.

[00:54:53]Yeah. They just want an external person to speak to. Yes.

[00:54:56]>> And and sometimes that can solve the problem before you get to a stage. So very um you know early >> on that point if the child says listen >> I'm happy to talk to a child psychologist or therapist or consular uh whatever it may be >> to get some sort of like support if they say I don't want you be there to be there my mom or my dad >> uh how is important that we understand that they don't want to big front of us and give them a space so they get better inshallah.

[00:55:34]>> Very important. Very important because all you would be doing at that point is making that relationship worse because the child has clearly expressed that they don't feel comfortable um in speaking with you. If as a parent maybe you respect their wishes at that point, uh you may be able to even build on that as a relationship. They now trust you even better because you know they they see you as you know someone who's there for them who who wants to support them.

[00:55:59]But sometimes the children don't want to speak to the parents because you know like I said you know there's a clash of culture. These children have grown up in in you know in these societies. Um and sometimes they feel like the parents there's disconnect. They think that there's some some issues that their parents will not understand and that perhaps they want to speak to um other others.

[00:56:22]>> Um as a parent of course you can control the narrative and be very clever with it. If you don't want um your child you know speaking to you know certain people then you know perhaps you can go to the community find the right individual who you know and there are many out out there you know there's you know many reputable youth services that are more you know culturally competent more Islamic more holistic understand what's going on take them to those people you know don't isolate them and say no you have to talk to me it's not >> yeah yeah some building trust with your children. It's one of the most important thing um especially if they suffering with um misusing substance.

[00:57:13]Um, how do you advise parents to build trust and show children that not you're only you're not only their parent, but you're also someone that they can trust, rely on, they can come with their bros and talk to.

[00:57:29]Um, I think it's a difficult uh balance, especially when it comes to um our community. Uh, a lot of the times, of course, I grew up in a Somali household.

[00:57:38]Um, a lot of the times is the parent is there to tell you what to do. Um, and for the most part, you know, you there is no, you know, that that relationship of being able to sit down with your parents and say to them, look, um, X, Y, and Z happened in school today. I'm having problems with my friends. We tend not to do that. We tend not to do that.

[00:57:59]Um, but as a parent, you're missing out as well because you're missing out on what's actually happening with that child outside of the home. You know, this is this is you intelligence gathering we call it. You know, this is you to finding out problems very early on. If you have that relationship with your child and they can sit down and they can tell you X Y and Z happened in school and then they tell you and then they tell you about a specific friend and that friend keeps coming back and every time that friend is mentioned there's trouble. So as a parent now you foreseen an issue but your child was happy to confide in you >> and you can now advise them as a parent and say maybe you can stay away from that friend but that's something you missed out on because you as a parent did not take the time to build that relationship. Um and sometimes building that relationship is easier said than done especially if they're teenagers and especially if you haven't had this from before they were teenagers. you know, if if they're already teenagers and you know that emotional >> faces, >> they're going through phases, you know, you know, you've got teenage hormonals, you know, all the rest of it.

[00:58:58]>> Um, and if you haven't had that relationship with them prior to them becoming teenagers, it's even harder.

[00:59:04]You're in a very hard position to prove yourself as someone who who they can speak to. But my advice to parents would be is >> build that relationship with them, you know, >> early on. If if you're if you're a dad and you're with your son, >> you know, go to places with your son that your son sees as hobbies, you know, your son likes football, go to these places with your son, speak to them, sit down with them. Um, if you're a mom who has a daughter uh and she has hobbies and she goes, go to these places that, you know, your your daughter finds um interest in, you know, whatever sports that she likes to get up to, uh, you know, on the on the drive back, speak to them, you know, be befriend them.

[00:59:43]befriend them because as a parent you have to understand that this is exactly what ch people who groom children do.

[00:59:49]And you know it sounds crazy for me to say this >> but we have to do what these groomers are doing in order for us to beat them at their game >> because groomers befriend children. They befriend children a lot of the times they >> their confidence >> they they suck them out. They suck them out of your home, you know, with they shower them with gifts. They befriend them. Before you know it, they know your child more than you. They know your child's likes, dislikes, what your child hates more than more than the parent does. I I've dealt with cases where children were were being groomed by people online.

[01:00:23]>> Um and and these groomers, the messages that they were sending to the child is you'll be amazed because you think how do you know these things? When you speak to the parent, the parent doesn't even know the child's likes and dislikes about, you know, because they haven't built that relationship. So you need to befriend your child so that when these sort of groomers try on your child, your child will be confident enough to tell you or so and so message me online you know. So I would say as a parent it's more so for your benefit. This is this is actually for your benefit as a parent so you can manage problems that is very important that you build that rapport, you build that relationship and it's not always you know telling the child off you know um because all that is going to do is you know have a breakdown of relationship. Sometimes it has to be a balance of yes you are a parent, yes you have to enforce boundaries but also you can be there for your children. You know, it's not it's not one way, you know. It's not either or. It's not either. You can do both in parallel.

[01:01:30]for shut down.

[01:01:54]Go to the football.

[01:02:02]Finally, what is your message to the parents directly?

[01:02:07]Um my my message to Somali parents is uh um when it comes to this services um which is what I'm here to speak about today whether it be social social services I don't even like using the term services because you know when you say services you sound like a a government agent >> I promise you we're not you know we're we're human beings um in fact a term that is used nowadays is social care so so people can see that you know these people are >> so my my advice to parents is when it comes to these um services first of of all, I need you to understand that as a parent that these people are here to support you uh and your family. Um and and it's not it's not it's not the other way around. You know, it's not there's no reason for you as a parent to be uh fearful. Um so, as a parent, I would like you to, you know, be in a position where if a social worker knocked on your door, you can ask them, "Take your shoes off. You know, this is my house, you know, respectfully. You know, come um, you know, in a nice way. We we're humans. We can talk on a human level."

[01:03:04]Yeah.

[01:03:10]>> Absolutely. Because what would happen is um if that's the mentality that you have, they would leave you uh in a more traumatic way than you were before as opposed to offering you support because all that happened now is they've just put more fear in you. So my advice to parents would be um educate yourself on these things. Um you know another thing is befriend your children. and be friends with your children that there's a lot that goes on outside in the world.

[01:03:36]You know, one thing is working in child protection makes you a paranoid person.

[01:03:40]>> I'm very paranoid person when it comes to children because I can tell you now there's nothing that I haven't seen in terms of of that line of work, you know, when it when it comes to um children.

[01:03:50]>> Um children sometimes themselves are capable of things that will will shock you as a parent. Uh and other people are capable of doing things that will shock you to your children. So it's very important that that you know you're aware of these things that you understand that you're raising children in this country that you understand how these systems work and you know um yeah so that that that would be my advice because that's a good question everybody I want to learn and know in this book I'm actually working on it inshallah. So this is the first draft um which I'm actually having peer peer reviewed at the moment.

[01:04:42]>> Um unfortunately my first peer review didn't go well. So I've been working on this for a year. I had the first peer review in January and there was a lot of advice and a lot of changes that I had to make.

[01:04:50]>> Um but inshallah my plan was to release it on this May. Right.

[01:04:54]>> Unfortunately, I'm going to have to tell my followers on Tik Tok as well because I did tell them >> that I'll have to push it slightly back.

[01:05:02]But once it's out, it's going to be on my Tik Tok and inshallah um everyone will know about it at some point.

[01:05:08]Hopefully within the next few months, inshallah, if all goes to plan, I can't thank you enough to be honest with you. It's an honor to be here. Your role model for all of us >> and the work you do is incredible.

[01:05:22]>> Thank you. ford.

[01:05:31]Tik Tok