LIVE with Dr. Will 📱

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]Good morning, Dual Coast family. Welcome back to another powerful and exciting episode of Dual Podcast. Yes, >> I'm your host, Dan Skoa, joined by my West Coast co-host, Russ Rogers, and joined by a very special guest this morning, Dr. Will. See you. Dr. Will, thank you so much for being here.

[00:00:16]>> Good morning. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:18]>> Of course, man. Of course. Thank you.

[00:00:20]>> You know, you're saying you're not last name though just really takes away from the powerful Dr. Will. You know, >> Dr. Will.

[00:00:30]Got to have that willpower in there, you know.

[00:00:32]>> Got to have the willpower.

[00:00:34]>> Oh, man. I cannot believe you're here.

[00:00:36]This is fantastic.

[00:00:37]>> I'm here. Yeah. Uh really excited. Um it kind of hit me 48 hours ago that I was like, I'm gonna be on a podcast with Russ form this time.

[00:00:48]>> Yeah. Well, we had we had a great uh talk at at Phil's coffee. Um, we were we were talking off air about, you know, having some elongated conversations of like five hours. And I felt like that day, minus the heat, because it was a hot day that day, minus the heat, we could have went much longer.

[00:01:07]>> It was incredible. Yeah, I was definitely sweating off my winter hibernation. Um, but yeah, that was such an easy conversation when to have with you. And I mean, just being in the sun, just having all that energy and excitement, being able to talk about health, wellness, everything was Yeah.

[00:01:25]>> Awesome. Yeah, >> it was great. So, just a little background. So, I was I was following this gal named Christina. Christina, I hit her up because I saw that she had, you know, Portland, Oregon behind her name and we were doing an event up there. So, I just randomly hit her up and I said, "Hey, Christina, we're going to be up in Portland. Would love for you to come to this event." So, we started having some interaction. We ended up having coffee at at Phil's. I almost said Dr. Phils at Phil's. And uh we she goes, "Oh, I want to I want to put you in touch with Dr. Will. He's he's up there in Vancouver." I'm like, "Fantastic. Let's make this happen." So, he's like, "Well, I Hey, I'm going to be coming down for a wedding in two weeks, so let's have coffee." I was like, "Fantastic." So, then two weeks later, Dr. Will and I had coffee and his fiance was there. She stayed indoors working on the laptop. We were outside for almost two hours in in some serious heat that day up against that stone wall. Uh we were both definitely sweating. But that's kind of how Dr. Will and I connected. And then of course you were a part of Impact Portland which was unbelievable. And you did a great job and you got some good connections and made some new friends up there. We had a great time, didn't we?

[00:02:36]>> Oh, as I asked Absolutely. had an amazing time. Yeah. been reconnecting with some of the people um trickling in week by week uh with the people there and they were taken away with what I do and I was actually really interested in what they do especially with Ryan and Juliana with their their breath work um life spark it was really amazing and I've had people that I work with seen them and they're just like the work that they do has been absolutely amazing as well so it not only impacted my life but I am now seeing the impact that's um impacting on the rest of my my circle and the people that I brought there as well.

[00:03:15]>> Yeah. No, it was it was really cool because Dr. Will said, "Hey, why don't you, you know, come if you got some time before the event, why don't you come up to Vancouver and we'll we'll do a little assessment on you and then we'll go have some dinner." And so, we did all the above. And again, the conversation just kept continuing and it it it's been a unbelievable short uh friendship that we've had and I look forward to what is to come because uh it's going to be great. And I I do notice I did notice when I was in your office that you have I don't know probably eight or nine golf clubs in the corner.

[00:03:49]>> Uh there's I think four or five. Two putters. I don't know why there's two putters and two wedges.

[00:03:57]Okay. And what exactly do you do with those uh in your office? Is that part of your assessment?

[00:04:03]>> Uh sometimes actually because I don't have a wooden dowel, so I need something straight. Uh so yeah, the clubs kind of make a a cameo sometimes if I need to see range of motion. Um kind of prove to a client something. Um or I'll get the occasional golfer in. And I'm limited in space, so the wedge is the shortest club, so I'll kind of have them set up with the the golf club. And sometimes we'll go outside and have them swing it.

[00:04:28]And I've had that done before and they're like, "I can swing a golf club."

[00:04:31]And I'm like, "See you later. We'll schedule you." And out the door they go and they're straight to the course and they're happy about it. So yeah, they'll make a game from time to time.

[00:04:39]>> So you play you play golf. What is the best part of your game?

[00:04:45]>> Best part of my game? I would have to say if it's on, it's driving. But I love putting. Um, the iconic Tiger moments are all about putting when he drains a exactly six-foot putt for to win it at the Masters or the players. It's simply just like just iconic, you know. Um, so >> do you high step it off the green if you drain a 60footer?

[00:05:10]>> No. No. I'm very I'm very um I just had a trip and some guy was like, "Will's really in his head?" And it's yeah, it's kind of a just let Will do his thing and just stay out of his way. But I will sometimes if someone's tripping, I'll stare at him after I make the putt while I walk into the hole just to let him know, hey, I heard you and I'm looking at you. So yeah.

[00:05:35]>> Did you have the best score at the Bachelor weekend?

[00:05:38]>> I did actually. I did. So yeah, I'm very excited about it.

[00:05:43]>> Oh, that's so cool.

[00:05:44]>> Yeah.

[00:05:44]>> Well, the um Dr. Will is a chiropractor and he's not just your ordinary chiropractor. Um so when he asked me to come in, he asked me to, you know, sit down and we're going to do this analysis and everything. So he's doing touch points, you know, back here behind the ear. Um feeling this, does this hurt?

[00:06:02]You know, how's this feel? than you know going down the side of the spine and doing some assessment and and I'll tell you it was amazing because then we got into what we call the what he calls the analysis and everything and did some cranial work and you know it was an amazing I don't know we're probably there about an hour 45 minutes an hour it felt like >> it was about an hour yeah it kind of gave you the whole experience of what someone new would do was a little over an hour >> uh it was amazing I I you know and I I got to share with you because one time years ago I I I don't go to chiropractors and and don't want to really, but uh so I was a little nervous going in, you know, because a long time ago when I was a kid, you know how you do that, you know, you massage your neck and everything and then you lift and then, you know, do that crack. I was like, "Oh man, I hope he doesn't crack my neck." Because that I remember way back a friend of mine did that. Oh, just relax. You know, you know, a friend, not >> not a chiropractor, a friend. It was the worst experience ever. It was like It was like uh you know how some people hold their you when they sneeze and they hold it in right like that. Oh, I did that one time when I was a kid and about blew my head off like I don't know if you I don't know if you hold in because I like to sneeze. It's like let it go man. Just sneeze everywhere where you know what I mean.

[00:07:18]>> What's that?

[00:07:18]>> I tried it once. I was in a lecture and I needed to sneeze >> and I held it in and it was like I c I was like what am I doing? Like I couldn't pay attention to the lecture the rest of the time. I was like, "My head hurts so much from that instant pressure." Yeah, I get it, Russ. I get it. Yes.

[00:07:37]>> So, that was my that's my introduction for you. You know, that you did not do my you know, the neck crack, which I'm so thankful for, but it was it was an amazing experience. Um, and I know you had some great dialogue at the Impact Portland with people with that because you were able to explain a little bit about what you do. So why don't you talk the audience through what these touching points are and the analysis of going down the back setting up our our conversation for today.

[00:08:04]>> Yeah. Um so as I mentioned at Impact Portland, I like to think myself as a human performance provider, right? I don't really think myself as a true chiropractor because that just makes people think like you. You're like, "Oh, this guy's going to snap my neck left and right." And that builds this this anxiety and fear in people. But when I say I'm a human performance provider, they're just like, what does that mean?

[00:08:24]Right? And so they lean in a little bit more. I'm like, it simply simply means that I assess what your body is telling me based on these cranial points. Um, and then we assess the spine, which is what every chiropractor does anyways. We assess the spine to see where all the tight spots are. Um, and then we go to the areas that need to release, right?

[00:08:46]So a typical chiropractor will do an adjustment in that area based on counter strain. We assess the cranial scan after that to see what level and what system is restricted based on inflammatory markers that are causing pain.

[00:09:02]We release it and you feel better. Um I think of the spine as an extension cord in your brain as the fuse box. If all the nerves in our body went back to our spine, we would be it would be a very big tube. Everything however merges right together wiring wise from our nerves. So we may have an issue in our shoulders, but it also may be part of our heart as well as the blood supply to our lungs. So all these different organs and systems all converge back into the spine at a specific level. then that's going to cause pain.

[00:09:41]>> Um, and so based on my scan on your back and spine first, that'll tell me what level, what area. Then I go to your cranial scan, which is going to tell me what system. Then we test it, you feel better, and you start moving, you start playing, and that's the whole goal of willpower.

[00:09:57]>> That's awesome.

[00:09:58]>> Awesome.

[00:09:58]>> What do you What do you think about physicians assistant who just want to cut you open?

[00:10:02]>> Uh, sometimes you need to, you know, sometimes you need to, sometimes it's Sometimes you got to do it. Yeah. I mean, case in point, I had a guy, you know, who completely tore his ACL, couple tears in his meniscus, and I was like, let's do some desswelling in the knee first, see if we can get blood supply blood supply to the the knee. And he started feeling a little bit better, but there was still some restriction. He was still feeling this cot sensation and a lot of instability. In that case, it's like, yeah, time to go see Dan. Let's redo that. You know, it's all broken up and torn up in there. I can't do anything about it. But on the back end, as we repair it, can we now infuse good uh blood supply to it? Make sure the tendons and ligaments are moving the way they are supposed to. And with all that scar tissue from the surgery, let's manage that as it gets laid down and rebuilt from from your body standpoint.

[00:11:00]So, yeah, sometimes you need surgery.

[00:11:02]>> Yeah, for sure.

[00:11:04]>> That's true. it. Yeah, I guess it depends on how much the disruption is there. If something's truly torn and you can't restore the blood supply to it or you know you have retraction in like a you know certain muscle that's torn or it's been there for a prolonged period of time and it needs fixation different story. Obviously fractures sometimes it be fixated. Um Dr. Will, for everybody listening right now, could you just tell us a little about what fascia is and what it biomechanically does for the body and how it does it produce mobility? Does it produce force? Does it produce pain patterns? What is fascia in general?

[00:11:35]>> Yeah, that's a great question. Fascia is a connective tissue that surrounds everything within ourselves. It holds everything in place. Um, but I believe a study came out. It's like 50% of fascia is nerve endings or 50% of a nerve is fascia one way or the other. So irregardless if there's tension within a fascial or a nerve, you're going to feel pain. Um, and so that's the living breathing aspect of how we can sense things within our body. Um, so we can sometimes get nerve enttrapments which is caused by inflammation that's trapped. Uh, Brian Tucky who's uh he's a physical therapist who does a lot of the R&D for fascial counter strain has come out and just found that there are a lot of inflammatory markers just sitting around. Uh, that's what creates knots within the fascial uh, entrapments there. So you have your interlucan six, your TNF betas. So there's a lot of things that your body can't do and it sits in that area and it just starts festering and it becomes this like pulsating knot and that can start radiating to other parts of our body due to all that convergence on those nerves there. And so that's kind of the basis of what fascia is. It's a living breathing organism within ourselves. And it's another system that we just thought was like that silver skin on that chicken breast that just holds and allows things to slide very easily. There's a lot to it where it remembers past injuries. It holds trauma. A lot of our mental, emotional stuff gets held in there. Um and then yeah, it it restricts what we do. Uh things get a little sticky. Um, and it causes pain and we now with counter strain are able to identify it and then release it so that we feel better.

[00:13:28]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:29]>> Well, Dan, I threw uh Dr. Will a loop, you know, I threw him for a loop when I went in there because he's like, "All right, do you have any uh you have any pain or anything like that?" Of course, you were part of Impact Portland, but uh yeah, I said, "Yeah, my ankle, you know, and you know, kind of the tendon down there." And I did my own assessment. I'm thinking I told my son I said I think that jump roping is causing me some pain down my ankle. Just don't know when it's going to hurt. Sometimes it will hurt and sometimes it doesn't or whatever. So anyway, we went through some some well I I'm going to call it stretching. Uh we went through some stretching things.

[00:14:05]He's got a he's got a much more, you know, deeper word that's going to come out. I know it. But we we went he took me through the stretching kind of stuff and like made did some adjustments in my rib cage, right? Rotated me uh you know, put pressure, you know, right here and, you know, just just held it for a while and then started doing some movements and different things and then took my leg up over his thigh and then did some stretching that way. And then he's like, "All right, we're going to we're going to rotate over and we're going to hold this for like two minutes, right? My knees like this." It was unbelievable.

[00:14:38]and the way that I felt. And he goes, "How's your ankle feel?" I actually felt really good, you know, and my my back even felt better because as we rotated this way, it was stretching back here, right? It it was unbelievable. So, you know, kind of walk us through so everybody understands kind of what you were working with me on so we can get a little we can kind of visualize it.

[00:14:58]>> Visualize it. Yeah. So, to start off with, uh I didn't even know Russ's uh history. I was like, "Hey, Russ, just sit on the table here." And I just did a simple scan all the way down his back.

[00:15:11]His tightest spot, Russ's tightest spot was right on that right rib cage area, just the right side, single, just one side of unilateral. And I was like, "That's very interesting." So, I did a little bit of assessment, did a little cranial scan to try to figure out exactly what was going on. Russ was very tight um through the rib cage area, a little bit of through his lung, um his liver, uh and then let's see here. Oh, and then his epidural. So, the drainage of his spinal cord was a little bit restricted. Right. So, being armed with like four different systems or areas, I was like, "All right, Russ, what's bothering you the most? If I granted you one wish to fix today, what would it be?" And Russ said his Achilles on the left side, his ankle down there. I was like, "Oh boy, all right. That's not what I expected."

[00:16:05]But I was like, "You know what, Russ?

[00:16:07]Let's figure this out." Because there's something in your right side of your rib cage that's causing your left Achilles to be super tight. And I simply, what we call is a touch inhibition. I touched the area that was really tight on my scan. And then I had Russ retest his ankle and he's like, "Yeah, it actually is much softer. It's moving a little bit better. It feels less painful, a little bit less tightness." I was like, "Perfect." So now I went in um manipulated and kind of just allowed his lung, his liver, and his rib cage to just soften up and relax. That cleared about 50% of his ankle discomfort. Then what Russ is talking about, I did a epidural lumbar epidural uh drainage, which is simply just the drainage of our lumbar spine. We all hear about epidurals for pregnant ladies. It's the same line except it's the drainage portion, the venus lymphatics uh portion of our uh spinal cord. Um and that's what causes a lot of tightness.

[00:17:08]Typically, a lot of people think pain is a muscle issue. It's usually a nerve issue. So getting your spinal cord to relax allows your muscle to relax. also did a little simple twisting relaxation move with some traction and Russ was like melting away on the table. Um, >> do we need to stop now?

[00:17:29]>> Yeah, he he kept asking for that same stretch again. I was like, you know what? I'm going to give you the stretch that you can do at home and uh you got up 70% after that. And it was you were just bouncing around.

[00:17:42]>> I was walk around downtown. I was I I ran What was my mile time over the weekend on the marathon? I was like 249 or something.

[00:17:50]>> Two hours 49 minutes.

[00:17:51]>> No, two two minutes >> athlete.

[00:17:57]If it wasn't for the backpack, it would have been less.

[00:18:00]>> Right. All the drag that one pound backpack really.

[00:18:03]>> Oh, you ought to hurt damn breathing.

[00:18:06]>> Yeah.

[00:18:08]>> Dr. Dr. Will, so so far as we've talked a little bit, you brought up this the rib cage a lot in uh, you know, with rust and dysfunction, everything like that. Would you say that improper breathing mechanics like poor diaphragmatic function, your diaphragm muscle, would you say that causes issues with the rib cage, and would you say that actually causes issues with muscle recruitment patterns?

[00:18:29]>> Absolutely. Yeah. So the first class after that foundation class in counter strain, they really encourage you to take the Venus lymphatic courses. So there's two courses in the counter strength rhythm that's simply based off of how do we get your body to drain everything. Now what is the Venus lymphatic system? The easiest way I explain it to my clients is it's the waste management. It's the trash shoot of our body.

[00:18:56]>> Our biggest areas to help us uh filter a lot of that stuff is our liver as well as the two kidneys. Those are our filtration. Right behind the diaphragm and all the other good organs is what we call the sister Christi, right? It's that giant Venus lymphatic nodule that drains a lot of our body's fluids and that sits right next to that diaphragm.

[00:19:24]And that's why when we work on breathing exercises, we relax ourselves because the breathing helps just squeeze that uh sack and it just drains it.

[00:19:35]>> Um Venus lymphatic is all based off of mechanical pressure to help us drain and a lot of people are immobile. We sit at our desk a lot. So there's not a lot of pumping or negative pressure happening within our body. So we start swelling up. We get swollen. Um, and with breath work, especially in that rib cage area, we help expand um, our rib cage. So, there's mobility there. And then we help a lot of our lymphatic drainage. If we look at a map of our or that system, a lot of it comes right through that center portion of our thoracic spine.

[00:20:07]Um, and so that's where breath work really helps. And sometimes breath work doesn't because we are just so rigid and a lot of like posture will have a big factor on that also. So our lungs are now collapsed on top of it. So we don't get that breath work. Our balloons as lungs can't expand. So we can't actually open ourselves up and that causes a lot of restrictions there. So then we it's like that snowball effect, right? One thing happens then another and just gets worse and worse and worse and sometimes with counter strand we just go in there in a very gentle manner um and allow things to relax. Um, a lot of mainstream treatments is making things hurt, right? We all hear pain is gain.

[00:20:50]Um, stretching, making sure you really feel that deep stretch and pain, you're like, "Oh, yeah, that's what's going to actually help." In reality, it actually makes it worse because our body doesn't like pain. What do we do when we're scared or we're in pain? We clam up even more.

[00:21:06]>> Um, and so, uh, with with fascial counter strain, we actually go in the opposite direction. We actually relax a lot of the tissues to allow it to open itself up.

[00:21:16]>> Wow. Yeah.

[00:21:17]>> Wow. Yeah.

[00:21:18]>> So, when you were at Impact Portland, did you when you had conversation with Ryan and Julie Patrick or went through the breath work, what what what what did you learn in there that maybe not that you're trying to do breath work, but what did you learn in there that maybe you can take and assess with people and just say, "Hey, you know what? By doing this, this is also going to help you.

[00:21:40]you know, with regards to your, you know, your healing or, you know, whatever you're experiencing in your pain.

[00:21:47]>> Yeah, that's a great question. Um, the biggest thing I took away from Ryan Julian's, uh, talk was actually the exercise on the back end of it. So, I think from an assessment standpoint, I'm gonna let they them handle that breath work. But when I'm in office, something that was really uh stood out to me was Ryan was talking about a triangle breathing.

[00:22:11]>> A lot of the time I do what we call the box breathing. So there's four sides to it. Um and sometimes I mean when I do a box breathing I feel sometimes where I don't have enough air in my lungs and I start choking up a little bit. Um and talking to Ryan I was like hey walk me through this triangle breath work that you're talking about. and he simply takes out one side of the shape where you hold the exhale. So he simply goes inhale, hold, exhale, and goes straight back into an inhale and you take out of that hold. People feel better. They're able to like they don't have that suffocating feeling. So a lot of people have uh PTSD, anxiety, they don't feel like they're getting caught on that second half. So that was really interesting. Um, I think there's a couple photos of it where I'm showing Ryan the cranial skin and what it all means and how it ties into breath work and we're both uh just in shock and awe.

[00:23:07]And Ryan's a complete nerd. I think he'd be okay with me saying that where I'm talking big words to him and he's understanding it and then he starts spitting back big words at me and we're having this like complete nerd out session and there's a photo of us both having goosebumps.

[00:23:25]uh based on the breath work that he does and what it affects >> um in terms of relaxation >> uh filtration. Ryan mentioned filtration with breath work as well as just removing a lot of inflammatory markers.

[00:23:40]Um we both had goosebumps talking about how I affect it and how he affects it versus breath work and it was like wow this is awesome. So that might be a five hour conversation that I have no idea that's about to happen.

[00:23:52]>> Yeah. Well, you throw Dan in there and you'll probably jump it to seven, you know. Just leave me out of the equation.

[00:23:57]>> Let's go.

[00:23:58]>> I'll just be doing doing a lot of this.

[00:24:00]>> We'll replace you with Brian.

[00:24:04]>> I like it.

[00:24:05]>> That's so that's so interesting though because breath work definitely ties in big time to diaphragmatic function. Now, one thing I also want to ask you, Dr. Will, is that you know, we had this conversation with Dr. Amina last week and I kind of brought this up is that stress and outside emotional factors can sometimes contribute to chronic pain. Now would you say that somebody who's in a constant state of stress or emotional outside influence causes them to be in a sympathetic overdrive at all times? What would that do to the fascia and what would that do to muscular dysfunction?

[00:24:40]>> Great question. My mentor specializes in chronic pain actually. Right. So a lot of chronic pain I think Dr. Ramina Ramina talked about it where chronic stress creates this emotional mental cycle. We always thinks we're we always think we're in pain. Um I had a really big chronic pain client last week. Um and they were effectively fishing for sympathy. Um, and so their their thoughts are creating this pain that even though as we're working through and releasing a lot of fascial tension and allowing their body to drain everything, allowing their nerves to relax, they still were like holding on really tight to this five out of 10 pain. even though their movement was better, they were able to run, they were able to do a lot of different activities of daily living, they were just like, I'm still at five out of 10 pain. And they've kind of trained themselves to to almost say, if I have a five out of 10 pain, I get attention. I get somebody to work on me.

[00:25:56]They need that physical touch or whatever it may be attention to fix something. if I keep giving myself that thought of pain. And so within my our work at the clinic, um we getting people are like constantly at that five out of 10 pain five. Every time you ask them, they're just at a very high level. Even though it doesn't match up to any other factors or objective testing, you're just like, "What is going on right now?"

[00:26:24]And you start listening to their stories. It's that chronic stress. It's that chronic pain. they're just putting themselves through this cycle where if I say this, I get this and they just keep flowing within that. And so working with a lot of mental health therapists, referring them out, moving them along the the um the health and recovery spectrum, being a friend with them though, holding them accountable and working with them through it instead of saying, "All right, you're good physically. You're on your own there."

[00:26:56]They're going to feel like they've been left out again. So working with them even though we're working on them on the structural physical aspect of it having those dialogues and conversations that help them through allow them to um feel heard and then you break that cycle whether it's with breath work whether it's with a mental health therapist whoever it may be to get them out of just their own thoughts um helps with that chronic pain syndrome type cases.

[00:27:27]>> Yeah. Yeah, >> you know, a lot a lot of people, you know, are afraid, right? We we kind of go back to the beginning of the conversation, you know, the whole neck crack and everything like that, but a lot of people just tend to live with pain and instead of seeking help. And like what can you what can you encourage people with today who might be suffering from something in their body that can you know that you can encourage them with saying, "Hey, you know what? you know, seek some help whe be it mental, be it physical or whatever, because you know, you you did wonders in one hour session with me and I I was just thinking like, wow, if I was a repeat, like I saw you weekly, you know, twice a month or whatever, like it it would do serious wonders for me.

[00:28:12]>> Yeah, that's a great question or a great statement. It's, you know, willpower is like I mentioned this at impact. It's to do the hard thing today so that tomorrow is easy. That's what our ethos and mission is at the clinic. Um, we try to encourage people to live in a world or a mindset of abundance. Being in fear, being in super anxious, it's inevitable.

[00:28:38]It is just being human, right? It's what our baseline is because we don't know where that tiger is going to be. We don't know where that bear is going to be. So, we're always on alert. But if we change our our mindset and our world and our perspective of living in a world of abundance, we start allowing ourselves our own willpower to start coming out where it's like, you know what, it's going to be hard. But I know I can take that one step forward to be better so that tomorrow is going to be even better. And that may just simply being, hey, I know Russ. Russ is going to be helping me out of this. I know Dan out in New York, right? Hey Dan, I'm really struggling with this. Is there anybody that you can refer me to or recommend where I can just have a simple conversation? Absolutely. You should have a conversation with Ryan. Right.

[00:29:27]Start with that breath work online.

[00:29:29]Super easy. We all breathe. We have to breathe. Right. So, if we're doing something wrong 50,000 times a day simply to stay alive. Well, let's start there, right? And that's where a lot of people are like, "Ah, that's so hard. I can't do it." changing their mindset of like, hey, you can do this. I'm gonna be there right with you. We can do this together, >> but you got to do it, right? It's gonna be hard, but we're going to take that first step together. Um, and not really handholding them, but really coaching and helping them along will be super beneficial. And that's what we do at the clinic. It's like, hey, I'm a I'm a health team partner. I'm not here to coach you. I'm not really here to fix you. A lot of people just lay on my table and they're like, fix me. I'm not going to do anything to fix me. Like you got yourself into this situation. You dug yourself in this hole.

[00:30:20]>> I'm the hand that's reaching down and help you come up, >> but I'm not going to lift your entire yourself out of that hole. You're going to have to dig your heels into that side of the cliff or hole and pull yourself out also as I help you, right? Or I have the rope pulling you up.

[00:30:37]>> So, this is very much of a team effort.

[00:30:39]When we talk about health, it's always one one direction. Hey doctor, help me out. Here's a script. Here's go PT. Do it. Do as I say. No, this is very experimental. You're going to come back and tell me like, hey, that didn't work.

[00:30:53]I feel worse. Awesome. Let's call an audible. Let's change it up. What is your body telling me that we can help you fix yourself? And a lot of people feel empowered when they're like, "Oh my gosh, yeah, I'm being heard. They're listening to me. And I'm not just being thrown into this silo or this process where everyone gets the same thing. Um, I was working on an elbow yesterday and let's see what was going on. His large intestine >> was restricted, right? And he's like, "What kind of weird voodoo magic are you doing?" I'm like, "I don't know, but your scan said something down here and I'm just working on it." and his elbow completely loosened up. And I had an elbow earlier in that day and it was his upper lobe of the lung that was causing issues with the brachio plexus like a traditional elbow you would think.

[00:31:50]>> And I was just like, you know what? I at this point every day in my clinic, it's something new. Someone comes in, if I see two people with the same injury or symptoms, I am never thinking it's the same thing. It's always scan. See what the body is telling me. Listen to it.

[00:32:07]And as long as you're able to listen to it, you'll usually get the answer.

[00:32:12]>> Yeah.

[00:32:13]>> Yeah.

[00:32:13]>> That's awesome, man.

[00:32:14]>> So good.

[00:32:15]>> So good. I I want to I want to touch on this scan real quick. This this cranial scan.

[00:32:20]>> Yeah.

[00:32:20]>> That does that have to do with like certain zones in the back of the head?

[00:32:24]How does that work? Dr. Will, can you just explain that real quick?

[00:32:26]>> Yeah. I don't have my scan up here. I did bring it home, but um they'll probably yell at me for this. I'm not really sure, but based on my constant studying of this for over the last two years, the scan is really based off of everything from the center line of our skull down and then back to front also. So everything is based off of embryology. Um, the easiest way I can explain this, if you look at a skull, that's kind of like a baby's. I don't know if you ever seen those superimposed photos, but you'll have a skull and you'll have a fetus superimposed onto that skull there.

[00:33:09]>> Along that center line is where the spine of this fetus is is kind of superimposed there, right? So, everything starts with our spinal cord.

[00:33:18]That's what was the first thing developed when we were in vitro when inside of our mother's belly. So everything starts there. So when that spinal cord was being developed, it needed to be drainage first. How do we get blood in and blood out?

[00:33:34]>> So as that thing is getting developed, we need stuff to remove itself. So that first line on the scan is typically um a lot of venus venus lymphatic drainage.

[00:33:44]It's technically cranial scans if you're really really looking at it along the center line, but from a scan standpoint, I'm looking at that. How do I help people drain get rid of that swelling first? Then there's cartilage. Then we work ourselves down into more drainage, then into the bone, muscular, skeletal area, down into the visca, down on the outside of our head here, and then we have blood supplied on both sides of our head. So, it's kind of you kind of have to take it. They're going to yell at me if I give out too much more, but how the skull is laid out is simply based off of embryology. And I always thought that class was useless unless I was in uh becoming a pediatrician. And now that it's coming back full circle, I'm just like, I wish I had paid attention some more embryology. So, um, it's it's humbling when you got to go back to school and relearn a lot of the stuff that you already learned once.

[00:34:44]>> No, for sure. For sure.

[00:34:46]>> Hope that answered your question.

[00:34:47]>> It does. It does. Now, when you assess that, do you palpate certain areas and see what causes discomfort? Is that what you do?

[00:34:54]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, there's a it's all directional, right? It's very directional in which whatever way you kind of push or test. Um, and it's a quick test on the some on the bone itself, the cranium itself.

[00:35:09]>> I see.

[00:35:10]>> Um, yeah. So, there'll be a restriction there. And you know, we all do it instinctually.

[00:35:18]Um, I kind of use the story when we all have a headache, we all do rub our temples. So, we instinctually do it. And like going back to listening very very well, if they have pain, they will always tell you where and what system is going on. Um, from a counter strain standpoint, they'll sometimes point poke to their head, but there's another technique out there. Um, it's called fascial distortion model. They'll point to the area that's causing a lot of pain. Right? So, a lot of people will go they'll do this if it's really broad or they'll do this. they'll grab it. Or if they're grabbing the arm, they're like, "Oh, yeah, it feels like this." Or they'll use an arm, they'll do this.

[00:36:01]They're literally telling you what is going on with their body depending on their non-verbal cues and how they kind of show their pain is spreading away from themselves. And if you're able to focus in on how they're telling you that story of pain, um it's very fun to start picking out little things and they're like, "Oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes." Um and then you can ask them what mechanism or what activity they injured themselves on and it gives you even more information. Then you just go and treat it and wow, they're feeling better. So, uh a lot of listening. Lots of listening.

[00:36:41]>> Sure.

[00:36:42]>> Yeah.

[00:36:43]Like right this moment a lot of listen >> right.

[00:36:46]>> Yeah.

[00:36:48]>> Have you seen uh have you seen Big Dan uh up there in Portland yet?

[00:36:52]>> 6 foot6 Dan.

[00:36:54]>> No I have not.

[00:36:56]>> Okay.

[00:36:56]>> All right. He's he's going to be hitting you up. I know that. Um you know and you know give him the works man. I mean just >> yeah lay into him. You know he's kind of a mental he's a mental case.

[00:37:09]>> He's a good guy. He's a good guy. We're I'm excited to hopefully work with him soon. Um yeah, and see what what I can do to help him. I know he's a big volleyball guy. That's how you guys connected. So >> helping people move better, being able to tap into their their functional um joys of life is really what I'm here for. Um, and when we can't do what we enjoy doing, whether it's playing with our kids, playing golf, playing tennis, playing volleyball, um, you know, we get into our own headsp space, right, and we start unraveling and snowballing in the wrong direction.

[00:37:45]>> Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of people, you know, as they age, including myself, like, you know, whether it be a previous injury, a broken bone, uh, whatever it may be, you know, then we end up living with this, you know, for years and years and years, and we're having this pain in this area. And then because of that pain, we end up, you know, um, uh, let's say, let's say we got like for me, my ankle, right? And then all of a sudden I'm like walking differently. So now my right hip hurts, right? So people live with that stuff, right? And to to try to offset that, they do something different now. And I had a buddy that had a knee replacement from wear and tear, but then because he walked on that knee for so long, he ended up having hip surgery and replacing his hip because he was walking differently for years, right? So what can people do to not get in that position especially later in life >> right?

[00:38:49]Yeah, a lot of pre and we talked about prevention, right? Um, >> as I mentioned before, everyone thinks pain is a muscle issue. It's actually a nerve or a visceral something else is driving that muscle to tighten up and cause pain.

[00:39:10]>> Yeah. Um, and so, you know, in your case or a lot of people who have a knee or an ankle issue, they'll start hobbling or wobbling a little bit or start limping a little bit differently. And we're all thinking, a lot of therapists are thinking, oh, it's your quad, it's your hip, it's your QL, something in your low back that's causing your pain now because you're limping.

[00:39:30]But we neglect everything else in that area also. So we have the femoral artery, the formoral vein, the femoral uh nerve, we have the large intestine, we have your bladder. All that tissue, fascial tissue is all within that muscular line also.

[00:39:47]>> So you go to any other therapist, they'll just start working on stretching you out, getting you stronger.

[00:39:55]But a really good provider therapist will be able to assess other areas in that same line also, right? And if Dan's doing the surgery on a on a total knee, right, you're you got to remove a lot of the outside of the the quad, the hamstring, some of those those muscular structures. There's the nerve, there's the artery, there's the vein of the vein that runs in that area that you have to work around. Also, there's a lot of other structures that make us human. And where does all that other all that go?

[00:40:27]It goes back to our heart. It goes back to our liver, our kidneys. That's what makes us an organ, right? We talk about organisms. We're simply just one that has a lot of different systems in us that make us alive. We could go around without a left leg. We cannot live without a heart, part of a lung. Um, our livers regenerate ourselves, which is nice. Um, but you know, people cut portions of their small intestine, you know, to help them with their dietary needs or whatever it may be. But we still need it. We just can't simply remove an organ. We simply will just start vegetating in that in that sense.

[00:41:05]So when we start limping, a lot of our pressures and forces go through that center line still and we don't have an assessment to treat those other systems.

[00:41:15]We start snowballing even even worse.

[00:41:19]>> Yeah.

[00:41:19]>> Yeah. Well, if you're in the Portland and Vancouver area, please seek this dude out >> because Dr. Will, man, can bring it. And I'm I'm telling you, just one one-hour session, it was amazing. I mean, thank you.

[00:41:32]>> Uh yeah. No, it was and and just learning a lot as you know, it's not just assessing, he's walking you through, he's talking it through and really helping you understand your body and understanding movement and understanding restrictions. Uh it's very super helpful.

[00:41:47]>> It's it's all about that education, right? And I'm sure Dan can kind of attest this. with a client who's going in for surgery. Um, if you educate them very very well, their prognosis is so much better because they understand they need to do this for rehab, they need to do this post-surgical, they know what to expect afterwards. It's the ones where you don't educate them. And Dan, you can probably expand on this. What does that process look like after surgery, you know, swelling wise if they don't get rid of that swelling? How does that all play a part?

[00:42:17]>> 100%. I think education as far as pre-surgical uh somebody going in for a total knee or a total hip or a spinal fusion, something along those lines, they have to know what they're getting into first of all because they have to know the rehab process, what it's going to take to get better, their ambulation status post-operatively, their pain control postoperatively. If people go in with the notion that they're going to go in for a total knee and feel great the next day because they had such a severe degree of arthritis and come out the next day and be like, "Wow, that arthritis is gone. I feel great." that's going to have a poor outcome automatically because there is a long process for rehabilitation as far as a total knee total hip may be a little bit less but it's still rehab process spinal fusion very big rehab process. So, you have to go in with the understanding of surgery that you're not just going to be this magic bullet. You feel great the next day because you had all this pathology in the bony anatomy and then all of a sudden it's fixed for lack of better words and now all of a sudden you feel great. And you could kind of read people first of all when you see them pre-operatively their motivational factor with this because they they're like, you know, I've had pain for five years. I need to get better. I need to, you know, I'll do this, I'll do that, I'll do this. Those people have good drive. You know, they're going to do great in rehab. There are certain other people that come in and they're like, "Yeah, I need this fixed." And you could tell the drive is not always there. And those people don't do as well. And be because of that because, you know, they're like, "Ah, you know, I'm going to push off physical therapy today. I'm not going to get up. I'm not going to ambulate." You can see it in the hospital stance and everything like that. The drive has to be there for you to get better. You have to have the mental state that you want to get better because some people will just have this notion in their mind that because I had surgery I should automatically feel better. It's not always the case. It takes the rehab. It takes the process.

[00:44:03]It takes you know it takes progression.

[00:44:06]And you know not to say surgery is the end all fix for everything for a total for you know knee osteoarthritis and everything. You could always do a lot of conservative management. But at the same time, some of those people don't give it all they have in the conservative management pre-operatively. So if they don't do that, then simultaneously, what makes you think that you're going to do great post-operatively?

[00:44:28]That's kind of how I see things. And you know, a lot of people, and I've talked to multiple people who go for rehab pre-operatively and they try to do strengthening for quad exercises and things like that, and those people tend to do great, but uh the drive has to be there from a mental state. I think that's like one of the number one factors postoperatively that allows people to feel better.

[00:44:48]>> How do you how do you get that motivation or that drive? Right?

[00:44:51]Motivation is usually the last thing to get people going, but how do you tap into that? You're like, "Hey, Sally, we need you to do this. I know it's it's going to be hard."

[00:45:01]>> Yeah.

[00:45:01]>> How do you tap into that that hard?

[00:45:03]>> It that's interesting. So, you have to kind of talk to people from a um how can I say this? just a human perspective as opposed to physician to patient perspective. You have to kind of say that okay I understand you have this amount of pain but you need to do this this and this in order for get to get this pain improved. It's not like you can do this and it's going to be better.

[00:45:28]It has to be a sequential process. So I need you to get up today. You're going to do this amount of steps. you're going to work with the therapist on these exercises and I will show you the progression from each stage. And you kind of have to talk to a more of a um just friendto friend standpoint, I guess I could say is the best way to say this as opposed to being like you're going to do this, you're going to do this, you're going to do this and you're going to get better. It's not like that because that automatically puts them in this state of stress and this mental state that they're not going to be motivated enough. You have to kind of talk to them more of a, okay, let me show you what we're going to do first, we're going to do this second, and we're going to do this third. We're going to keep your pain controlled here, we're going to do this next, and we're going to do this next. And those people tend to progress much better than you're doing this, this, and this, and it'll get better in time. That's poorly said in my opinion.

[00:46:18]So, you kind of got to do it from a friend standpoint, if that makes sense.

[00:46:22]And you kind of coach them through each step of the process. And I feel like people will take postsurgical instructions better in phases as opposed to saying, you know, you'll be better in six months. People don't look towards that six months. They look to posttop day one, posttop day two. They don't they're not looking six months out, a year out because the first thing they're going to say is, "Yeah, my doctor told me it's going to take me a year to get better." Well, you know, you're going to be in a poor mental state if you're thinking a year ahead already. You have to get in a mental state that you're posttop day one, posttop day two from a spinal fusion. My goal today is to just get up and get in the hallway a little bit and walk down the hallway. Maybe next week I'll get outside more. I'll walk down the sidewalk when I'm discharged. Something along those lines.

[00:47:01]So, you got to take each step in the process progressively.

[00:47:05]>> One day at a time, for sure. Yeah.

[00:47:07]That's all you can control, right? In the next couple couple hours is like, hey, I can just go up and do 20 steps and Dan's gonna be amaz like super happy for me because I did that. Yeah, >> they're thinking, I need to do >> 50,000 steps in the next like >> month. They're like, that's way too big of a number. I don't even know if I can do that. So, breaking it into chunk, bite-size chunks, that's awesome.

[00:47:30]>> Yeah, people don't look at just the one step in the process. And I was actually going to ask you a similar question kind of and you know, I was I was going to tie in a little bit of social media here because everybody looks at social media and everybody gets these misconceptions from social media because they're on TikTok and they're on Instagram. They're like, "Oh, this guy was training like this and this guy was training like that or she was training like this and you know, they have all, you know, they look great. They're all, you know, ripped up and everything. They've only been training for three weeks, four weeks."

[00:47:58]That's not the case because it's a misconception.

[00:48:01]How do you think, and I'm sure you see a lot of patients with this, how do you think modern training culture, because we are also a physical and mental wellness podcast, we have a lot of trainers on here. How do you think modern training culture maybe overemphasizes muscle hypertrophy and they underestimate fascial integrity?

[00:48:21]What's your take on that?

[00:48:23]>> Man, you always got to come with a stumping question, my man.

[00:48:29]That is a great >> first of all, spell all that.

[00:48:31]>> Yeah, that is a great question. Um I think from a social stand social media standpoint they are emphasizing the hypertrophy because that's what we can see.

[00:48:43]>> Sure >> fascula is so underlying it's so unsexy but a lot of athletes feel it, they understand it. Um if something's off they're typically always telling you and pointing to it. But because of the culture and how we are seeing the human body, the easiest thing we can do is work on the muscle, right? Go and pump it up, get it stronger, but having a very good health partner next to you seeing the underlying structure, right?

[00:49:15]You have that guy who can see the structure of the house. So that's what they say, always have a good lawyer, but have a plumber, an electrician um in your back pocket because if your house starts getting a little wonky, you have people to go in like, hey, structurally, hey, this is what's going on. So a lot of people who are doing the hypertrophy, high intensity bodybuilders are case in point. Um a lot of athletes, athletes are just big compensators. But if you have somebody who's able to identify foundational fascial structures that are hindering them from moving forward, they will always come back to you because they start unlocking the last 1% 2% of their training. They're going to start seeing those big gains in terms of strength. Um the weightlifting weight goes up, their intensity goes up.

[00:50:10]Um, you know, I have a a cyclist. Gosh, this guy, I could never do it, but he does every Saturday he goes on like a 120ome mile round trip bike ride and he does great. I was like, hey, give me a chance. I would love to work with you and see what I can do with you. And he's like, absolutely. So, you know, people who do performance, they always have some set of pre-data and post data.

[00:50:41]They're always tracking something is amazing. This guy's able to track his output because he's such a good cyclist.

[00:50:48]Your output doesn't change, but he's able to track how long he's able to go on that output. And it is like almost, what did he say? He's able to go almost half an hour longer on the output cadence, whatever it is.

[00:51:06]He's like, "Yeah, I'm able to go so much longer without fatiguing out." And the lactic acid buildup >> isn't happening as soon. And so these athletes are able to start figuring this this out where it's like, I can go faster, I can go stronger for longer.

[00:51:23]>> Where do I sign up? Um, and so they're not only getting hypertrophy and looking good and getting stronger, they're like, "Okay, having somebody on the back end with that knowledge to help me build that strong foundation to build on top is so crucial." Um, so yeah, that fascial integrity, it's what connects us, right? Um, I don't know if there's that uh tinsrity model where like you pull something, it's I mean the shirt's the easiest, you pull here, everything pulls this way. Um, so having somebody understanding that structure and that system is super critical for anything performance-wise or just ADL. Grandma who just wants to bend down and pick up uh some groceries. Um, understanding how all that fascial tension um, works is very critical.

[00:52:13]>> Awesome.

[00:52:15]>> Amazing. I got one last question for you.

[00:52:19]Wellness is not about perfection, but it's about progress. Can you explain your understanding of that and what it means to you?

[00:52:29]Wellness is not perfection, but it's progress.

[00:52:32]>> It's Yeah, it's progress. It's It's prevention, right? I mean, I stole this from my mentor and he gave me full permission for it. So, you know, on the first line, I'm a healer in a in a hurting world, right? This world is always in turmoil. there's always something going on. But being that beacon where someone can come to you for help, whether it's for emotional, physical, mental help, having that guidance to kind of help them through their journey um and progression um is super critical. We're we're imperfect beings, right? Um and I'm sure Dan sees this all the time. It's like when you look at somebody's movement, they have a left and a right. We understand there's left right brain, left brain. It's an imperfect brain. It's an imperfect world that we live in. And so understanding that everyone has their own story, but knowing that we can listen to them, we can help them as we listen to them to progress them forward is super critical because not everyone's perfect and not I don't have all the answers, but I sure know how to at least help them get to the right answers. Whether that's working with you, Russ, or you know, someone similar in Dan's position where it's like, you know, if I can't fix you, I tell my clients all the time, if we start working on you and in two months in, you have zero progress. Zero. I'm moving you on.

[00:53:55]>> Yeah.

[00:53:55]>> Right. I'm here to get you better. I'm not here to take waste your money. Take your money. Sorry. Waste your time. Take your money. I'm not that I'm not that person. I don't feel good doing that. I want you to see improvement. I want to see you progress in life in your activities uh for a better better outcome and just better outlook and so um yeah >> love that legit. Yeah. So empowering people is huge and that's where the willpower aspect kind of came came all around and you know if we're able to do the hard thing today wake up um know that it's going to be a tough day but you know we're going to put in the work so that today is going to be uh make tomorrow easy that 1% why not why wouldn't we do it?

[00:54:43]>> Yeah absolutely >> I love this man >> Dr. Will bringing it on. Cinco deio, baby.

[00:54:56]>> Oh man.

[00:54:57]>> Will, where can people find you?

[00:54:59]>> Yeah, I'm uh up in Vancouver, Washington. Uh just outside of Portland.

[00:55:03]So if you're in that Portland metro area, happy to work with you. Um if I can't work with you, I'm sure I can find somebody who can work with you. Um not big Dan, but the other Dan.

[00:55:16]um lots of you know they're all over the world and there's counter strain people all over the world also. So um you can always go on to the website to find a provider if you're not in the Portland metro area but you can find me on the socials willpower health um YouTube, Instagram, Facebook. Um you can go to my website at willpowerhealth.com to find more information. Um or just simply reach out. I love to have conversations and I mentioned um if I can't help you, I want to make sure I can help you. Find somebody who can help you.

[00:55:47]>> Wonderful.

[00:55:48]>> Yeah. Awesome. This was amazing podcast.

[00:55:50]Thank you so much for being here today.

[00:55:51]Hope >> you >> again. Thank you, Russ, for having me.

[00:55:54]>> Thank you, man.

[00:55:54]>> Been super fun.

[00:55:55]>> Dr. Will's a great dude.

[00:55:57]>> Great dude.

[00:55:57]>> Speak him out, man. He's got a lot of knowledge, a lot of help. He >> does. Does.

[00:56:01]>> Yeah.

[00:56:02]>> Thank you so much, everybody, for listening. Hope everybody got a lot out of today. Super informational. Dr. Will Seu, thank you so much for being here today. We'll see everybody next week.

[00:56:09]Thank you, friend.

[00:56:10]>> See you later.