The discussion provides a sharp, necessary critique of theodicy by directly confronting the moral friction between biblical narratives and the concept of a benevolent deity. It effectively strips away theological jargon to expose the fundamental logical inconsistencies inherent in traditional views of divine justice.
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It's the top of the hour.
And looks like we've got our first guest. Let's say hello to Pretend. Hey, Pretend, welcome in. What's your age and religion?
>> Uh, 41 and I'm a Christian.
>> Oh, welcome in. Uh, what background did I put up here? Oh, I'm losing faith in the Bible. I don't I'm starting to think that this thing might not be true. What are your thoughts on that?
Ah, >> I guess I guess as a a believer, you know, it's your walks your walk's always different. You know, your your walk's different than my different uh mine. You know, my journey is different than your journey. Sometimes it's easy and then other times it's difficult. just in life, you know, some some days are easy, you know, um some days are rough and you know, it's all the the most important thing is that you continue either way in life or in your journey, you know, and don't stop no matter what, you know, >> even though the Bible's not true, >> that's fine to just like keep living your life. that that's for you to decide if it's true or even your perception on it or your perception of life. Um that's your decision, you know, to say something is is false.
That's that's on you.
>> I Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I I'm starting to I think uh I decide that the Bible isn't true now.
>> Yeah. Well, then that's your that's your choice. Just like me. I I have to I have to continue on, you know, seeking and searching out, you know, also also things because I'm in a crossroad, too, man.
>> What do you think about what do you mean? What what crossroad are you at?
>> See, I've uh I've studied all kinds of religions, not just one, you know, and uh I've always seed other religions besides, you know, being a Christian, you know. I see the sought.
>> I think like the the past tense of seek I think is sought. Is that right?
>> Yeah, I I guess you know I'm not very I'm not very good technical person and I'm not very good with you know um >> I'm not totally sure about that but I'm pretty sure it's sock sock uh sauted.
>> So you know I I I want to look out I want to look for you know knowledge. I want to look for you know evidence and stuff like that. I want to look for you know I I got a handle. So, you know, I I search, you know, endless endless different things, you know, to research besides books, you know, uh data, >> right, >> information and stuff too, you know, that's out there is if you if you're >> Yeah. Once we realize that the in the book it's not a true story, we have to kind of look to reality to go, well, what is true?
>> Yeah. I I I disagree with that and I can prove it. Um I >> I thought that's what you were saying.
>> Yeah.
I if you know anything about technology like AI or SI which is synthetic intelligence or GI um there's another branch of intelligence there's these new these are more advanced uh intelligence and technology that's coming out to the public um some of you guys have access to it some of you guys don't have access to it >> this information um certain certain intelligence but not all intelligence um depending on uh your your ability and capability of uh your handle. Um so what I'm trying to say and this is for Tik Tok purposes only um is that when you seek out actual you know data logical you know numbers you know historical places locations you know >> I like all those things numbers places yeah it's important you know uh time frames all that stuff um I actually sent you a link man uh um to let you check this out and I'd like to get your personal opinion. I followed you just really quick. Can I just do just to let you know and thanks for following me. I have no idea what you're talking about.
Like it's I'm confused. I'm utterly confused about like why you're telling me this stuff >> or what it's related to.
>> It it's it's kind of important. What if I told you what if I told you that every human being is connected one way or another?
>> Yeah. like through the Higs field or do you mean just like through the uh like evolutionary family tree?
>> Yeah, it could be evolution. It could be anything. I'm talking about to a fine blade of grass. There is a piece of you and we have DNA.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, I know that.
>> Cool. All right. I sent you a link, man.
I followed you. I'm going to share your live. Keep doing what you're doing.
>> Hold on. I don't know what you're talking about, though.
>> Nobody ever knows what we're talking about. I don't even know what I'm talking about.
Just so you know, when I talk to other people, I do understand them and we have like uh we can share knowledge with each other and it's coherent. But with you, I got just none of that.
>> Uh it's it's it's >> Do you think it's possible that you're nuts or incoherent or anything?
>> Uh no. And I don't suffer from any kind of like um religious psychosis, anything. And I'm not on any kind of prior medication or was on any kind of medication either. Then why aren't you making any sense to anybody?
>> Uh, no sense makes sense. You can't get bought without thought.
>> Nons just no idea what you're talking about without most people. No, it's it's been like this since I was kid. No worries, man.
>> Try to explain it a little bit. Let's I want to figure out what you're talking about.
>> Even if I told you a thousand times and wrote it down, it was still wouldn't be the same if I didn't.
>> Let's retract the conversation. I told you I don't think the Bible's true. You said I can prove it is >> and I did >> and you started talking about AI.
>> I know. I'll look at the link later. But does AI >> gonna prove your question, man.
>> Does AI prove the Bible is true or false?
>> It proves that it's true.
>> All of it.
>> All of it.
>> Well, there's parts we know.
>> I sent you a special I sent you a special link. Not just like links. I'm not going to open the link. I'm not going to open >> Okay, that's cool, dude. No worries. you you have an awesome peace be upon you.
>> Bye.
That was our first guest.
It's Tuesday, folks. Um that was a bit of a Wednesday guest, but uh we're starting off strong here.
That was pretend something as in pretend to have some sort of a idea what you're talking about.
Up next we got Lament.
>> Hey Lament, what's your age and religion? Welcome to the show.
>> I would be 55 and I am a Christian. So >> okay. Um, >> lamentable one.
>> It cuts it off. I just see l like lamentations basically.
>> I It's lamentable, but that's okay.
>> Lamentable. Uh, you said you're a Christian.
>> I am, sir.
>> Um, I'm starting to think that this Bible might not be true.
>> Well, that is a cursory glance of it. It will very much look that way. It's very hard to believe. Um, and and I'm sure you've well, I'm hoping that you have read all the um apologetics regarding the uh the the absolute absurdity of the idea that someone would pass a fiction like this along through history without trying to conceal it. It's not the kind of thing people want exposed.
>> I'm not sure what that means. Um, but real quick, it's my best friend Joel.
Have you met Joel before?
>> Uh, no. No. I'm I'm kind of new to the whole live streaming thing. I'm not I haven't been doing it too long, but Joel's my best friend still.
>> I uh did Hey, good to see you. I did a cursory glance of at our like inbox, you know, our collective inbox that we use >> and I got the uh message from that guy.
>> Oh, the last guy.
>> Yeah, it's just a video like it's a link to a video of a close-up of a butthole farting.
>> Oh, he was doing like a farting troll thing.
>> Yeah. There's something or or is it like cuz he was talking about DNA and stuff?
>> Maybe he was >> I'm pretty sure it's a troll cuz it the thing farts and then it it Rick rolls.
>> Okay, that's probably >> the butthole starts going never going to give you up. Never going to let >> the butthole does it.
>> Yeah, I want to Okay, send forward that to my personal inbox cuz I definitely want to look at that. But I'm But I if it had only just been like a butthole and it was like because you know sometimes you'll see like if you look close on the retina there's like these codes in it >> maybe in the like fissures. No no I mean they do that with eyes. They can do ret scans but you can >> you can do that with with like everyone's anus. This is weird but everyone's anus it's unique.
No, no two people have the same anal like um imprint.
>> The snowflake.
>> There's a little bit of a segue.
>> I hate what Profit's Magic Rod just posted in the Discord at this time. I just want to point that out and it scared me.
>> Anyway, Lamentable One, I think I've seen you before, so I don't know what live you were on, but you have been getting around.
>> It's good to see you. Well, anyways, you were saying something about the Bible isn't uh you think it is true or it isn't true.
>> Well, okay. First, >> you sorry. You said to watch to learn the apologetics that excuse the things that are obviously false in the Bible in order to like look into them or something. Right.
>> Right. Well, okay. The best we can ever know about anything, including the existence of Adolf Hitler, is it's most likely to be true rather than untrue. We can never have an absolute truth. Can we agree on those terms?
>> Let me make sure I understand this.
You're saying with Hitler, we don't know if he existed or not, but we should assume he did.
>> Scientifically, there's no way to prove it.
>> Uh, well, I mean, there's video of him.
>> I can make you a video of anything I want right now. And and they could in that day is just make make me a video of Jesus. Then >> there's a video of there's a black and white video of a person. And I just came back from the Holocaust Museum in DC, by the way. So, I have seen some of the horrible things. I am not >> You don't think You don't think that it's real, though? You think like the Holocaust wasn't real?
>> That's No, that's not what I'm saying. I I This is about the the ability to be able to prove things. So, if you think that proof is a possible thing, then we simply have no discussion. There is no such thing as a proof. Not in absolute terms.
>> So, we can't prove that the Bible's true.
We can't prove anything actually is true other than beyond what we perceive through our eyes, our ears and our senses.
>> I think you can do like mathematical proofs, right? Like you can do you can show that 2 plus 2 does equal four. Like there are pro they're called proofs in >> math. Okay. But two now we designed that mathematical system 2 plus 2 equals 4 because we said it does that that system of >> two this many of things added to this many more of things does make this many of things. That's true. Well, >> we made up the word two and the word for and plus.
>> Okay. Well, you're speaking to a nuclear you're speaking to a nuclear reactor operator in the Navy. And when you get down to the quantum level, sometimes those things with entanglement aren't necessarily true. An electron, for example, can be in two places simultaneously. But physical things >> does that mean that two trees next to two other trees isn't four trees?
>> It certainly doesn't mean that, but I don't think >> Okay, that's all I was saying. Yeah. No, no, but yeah, you're you're talking an onlogical system that we developed and all mathematical models are developed in >> onlogical system there. What does that word mean?
>> An ontology is something that is tangible and and and perceivable. Okay.
>> I thought ontology was about the like nature of being >> being as in right tangibility, acceptability. Yes. Don't necessar no tangibility is different than being.
Some things are intangible and still be.
>> All right. Maybe or being or or perceptible. If something >> I don't know why you use that word if it's not >> if something can't be perceived or or touched then it has no ontology. It's a concept. It's an abstract. Can we agree on something?
>> Concept. Concepts can have ontology.
They're just intangible.
You don't think two exists?
Like the concept of two?
>> Yeah, we're No, we're not. We're projecting things that are not being said. No, I of course I think they exist because we said that it exists.
Things that we invent exist because we say they are. They're exomatic. And we have to separate the eximatic from what >> exiomatic mean? I've heard that word before, but I don't know that word.
>> An axiom is something we simply declare.
for example, as we say it is.
>> Well, for example, well, yeah, for example, un universitarianism is the precept that we have to put before sciences that insists that all things that operate today operate the same in the past.
>> And so, >> time doesn't go time doesn't go faster in the past. Um, the sun doesn't burn hotter in the f or everything today was but it's unprovable. It's an action. I just looked it I just looked it up. And an axiom is a self-evident truth, a fundamental assumption or established principle that is accepted uh as true without requiring formal proof. Is that what you're saying?
>> That's what I said.
>> Well, no. You said it's just if you say it's true.
>> An assumption is what you say.
>> It's an assumption.
>> Fundamental assumption isn't just like I assume Hitler wasn't real, so now he's not. You know, like that that's a little different than than what you what you said before. Yeah.
>> No. Now, it it could be an axiom, but it's going to be proven wrong very quickly through Carl Pauper's falsification. So, you can come in with any assumptions. It's the ones that prevail are the ones that make meet consensus. So, you can come in. So, we have assumptions that that tend to work.
>> What does this does this have to do with the Bible? I forget what you were like how you got to this.
>> Well, it does. You're going to use this to explain why the Bible is unprovable.
>> No, but the prompt here says God and Bible. All right. So, I I am a nuclear reactor operator and it was through pursuit of science and nuclear science particular.
>> I'm a Tik Tok streamer.
>> Oh, that's fine. But >> do you want to say your job where you DJ or No.
>> No. Like I mean cuz I wear the mask and the the big the big uh head that looks like a rabbit but also a testicle. So yeah, I don't think I think I've actually I've given where my conviction comes from. That's all. I'm sharing where my conviction comes from. That's all.
>> Yeah.
>> Do they have radiation at nuclear reactors that might [ __ ] with someone's mind?
>> That is exactly what proves God in fact, sir.
>> That's interesting.
>> Okay. Good guess. You see, you see >> I did not expect >> radioactive decay. Uranium 235 decay decays, right? And I don't know if we know anything about this.
>> Am I talking with anyone who can understand the concepts of radioactive decay?
>> Uh they have half lives. Is that what we're talking about?
>> Yes. Thank you.
>> So half lives are interesting because I think you or maybe another streamer we're talking about causality.
>> Causality.
>> I would that would not be me. I refused to talk about causality.
>> I know I've done it.
>> Mezos chastised me. He goes, "We don't do causality." Yeah. He doesn't want to listen to it. And he's like, cuz we're kind of a dynamic duo. And it's like, are we really going to get into causality right now, Joel? And I'm like, what's wrong with that? And he's like, we don't do it. And so I was like, >> do that.
>> I said, why not? He goes, it's axiomatic. And I was like, that's fair.
>> Well, okay. Um, what I'm looking at the prompt says, help. I'm losing faith. And I do have answers. So we can have answers or we can you know just talk you talk nonsense but the answer is the radioactive decay process is not a causality. It's defined in physics as a spontaneous event. It doesn't have >> and that's what my question was about the Bible. So this is this could be relevant because I was wondering when I was like reading it. It was like well it says God's good and then he's killing all these people >> so like he's cutting their life in half.
Um, okay. Now, >> it's like a half-life thing, right? So, that's what kind of what what was making me go maybe this isn't true. So, you you actually kind of found the right maybe that is the right answer.
>> So, if you if you erase the half of the Bible that says that God has given us through grace and everlasting life and you look only at this little speck of time that we occupy on here, then it's going to look evil. Yes, of course. But that's only people who read half the Bible, not people who read all of the Bible. People I read I read the whole thing. And by the way, his name is Joel Reed's Bible. He reads the whole Bible.
That's like his whole deal.
>> It's not Joel. It's not Joel Re. Okay.
>> No, there it continues. There's a dot dot dot. It's not Joel dot dot dot. It It goes >> done this in a while, but I feel we deserve it.
>> I have the same issue.
>> I forgot the end of it.
Oh, there it is.
>> So, um, what what do you mean like I should ignore the bad parts of the Bible?
>> No, look.
>> Well, that's what I was looking at is there's parts where it says he's good.
>> What you're what you're calling >> and then there's parts where he's bad.
So, it's >> you're you're talking about parts you're defining things as good and bad by looking at only a sliver of the Bible.
You're not you're not understanding.
>> I just told you we read the whole thing.
>> Good. Well, then how come you can't acknowledge the part?
>> Look at all the Look at all the like tabs I have in here. I like really I can show you tabs, too. But it doesn't >> I'm really looking through it.
>> Okay. So then then how can you ignore the fact that Jesus died and he descended into hell and and get brought everyone up. Moses is back up in heaven, but he wasn't at that time. Everything evil that happened to good people, they eventually deceived their >> verse says Jesus brought Moses out of hell.
All who were down there were brought up.
He didn't He's not going to name the entire planet, dude.
>> Sure. But just to be clear, so no one's in hell.
>> Sure, there are.
>> Oh, >> the ones who the ones who missed the boat.
>> He went down.
>> No, I'm sorry. I'm That was not That was an accidental. I didn't mean Noah.
>> A lot of that was scheduling. like that.
A lot of that was a scheduling issue, right?
>> Because he was only there for three days.
>> No, has nothing to do with that. No, >> they didn't know when the boat was going and they some they were using the 24-hour clock and a lot of the people that were trying to get to the boat didn't realize that it was the 24-hour clock. Next thing you know, the boat if this time thing had anything to do with it, like if you go back to Isaiah, it doesn't >> then then you would be making sense. But it doesn't make sense if you read the Bible which says the time thing just doesn't matter to God. He's natural.
He's a natural.
>> Can I ask you a question?
>> Okay.
>> If I were to like take your glasses off, snap them in half, knock that beautiful top hat off your head, step on it, and then grab you by the back of the head and just like pound your face in with uh like with my I I guess I'd use a hammer or something until you're just in a bloody painful mess. But then I gave you a million dollars and you know we got plastic surgery so you looked even better than you look now.
Let's say you look like Channing Tatum >> for eternity.
>> Would that would that make all the pain and suffering I put you through worthwhile? Would that be okay now that I did that to you because I gave you the million dollars and stuff?
>> And you're saying for eternity, right?
>> Yeah. You can have the million dollars for eternity.
>> Well, I mean, >> and the looks, >> you got to invest it.
>> No, no, no, no. Not >> the looks are going to fade. The looks are going to fade. Obviously, >> nobody's looks last. You get >> That's not the deal we were offered. So, that has that No, the obvious answer is no.
>> Fine. You can look like Channing Tatum for eternity. Whatever.
>> I don't care what I look like. Honestly, I care what I feel.
>> But you get what I'm saying? Like, you know, putting you through all sorts of excruciating suffering for no reason.
Even though there's a like a payout afterwards, that doesn't make the suffering okay.
>> How would you arrive at no reason if you have in fact read that book? You don't understand God's purpose.
>> Well, here's what I would say. Joel could have just given you the money and the looks without the face pounding and then you get to keep your top hat and glasses.
>> So, >> and thinking of Channing Tatum in a top hat and glasses with just like a million dollars in his hands, it's a good look.
Yeah, but that seems better.
>> No, the looks has nothing to do. It's a fact of never going to have pain again.
>> I I sorry, I didn't mean like visible look. I mean like uh I just mean like it's a like it feels right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It has like that's a that's a vibe.
>> Yeah. I was like that's a vibe with just a million bucks in his hands like Yeah.
>> So now we're coming close to what the promise is. The promise is that there will be no sorrow, no more pain, no more suffering. The promise is an eternity of feeling good. fanning feeling chanting Tatum good and then that person would have to debate whether this small the small birthing pain thing would be worth the eternity and >> so I guess that's the question so if >> is burning pain worth the life >> well let here's the question if is God all good >> yes sir >> so then all of it should be good but if a little bit of it's really bad and then the rest of it's really good That's not all.
>> But >> that's the problem. So let me listen listen listen to Hold on minute. Hold on. Stop. Listen to what like our problem with it is.
>> Okay.
>> And then and then you can address it.
Okay. So if he could have just given you the chanting Tatum, right? Just channed you right up your tape with the million bucks without the bad stuff. All of it is good. But if he does the punching and then the stuff, maybe it's because the good lasts forever. It's more good than bad, but it's not all good because of the face pounding. Remember the hammer part? That part was bad and unnecessary.
This part, the parts where God has women burned alive, the parts where he has uh parents eat their children as punishment, babies dashed against rocks as punishment. Those parts are bad. If you're going to say God is really good and sometimes he's a bad bad monster, then this story still works. But you said he's all good, which means the story isn't true. The Bible is false.
>> The story falls.
>> That's the disproof.
>> No, it falls apart. He can't be a loving God.
>> Falls apart totally. Yeah, >> it falls apart totally if you if you take away the the free will part that he gave us. If you sit there and say that people can't >> use free will to be burned alive to eat your children, he's the one making them do that. What does it have to do with free will? The >> you just use free will and making them do that in the same sentence.
>> He's giving them a punishment. That's not free will.
>> You literally making them and free will in the same sentence. You do understand that you can't. That doesn't work, >> right? He says, "I >> free will."
>> That's the problem. It says in the Bible he's making them do this.
That's why it's not free will.
>> I think you're exaggerating the 2,000year distance between our languages quite a bit.
>> If he's the one who's like, uh, I'm going to punish these people. I'm going to get this army over here mad. I'm going to stir up this army and get them real mad so they'll go attack. Is he giving them free will by stirring them up? If he says, "I'm the one doing it because of when your pants fall down and everyone sees your [ __ ] and your [ __ ] and your buttholes and your shame. I'm the one who did that to you." He says, "It's me doing it to you." If he's doing stuff to you, you don't have free will.
>> Bring up that scripture cuz this will be fun.
>> Just a quick little PSA while Mezo does that. There is no shame in your [ __ ] your [ __ ] or your buttholes.
>> Yeah, >> there's nothing to be ashamed of. Those are beautiful things. Enjoy them and show them legally with consent. Don't don't just look walk around with your dicks out. That's wrong.
>> Now, if you want to say he he hardened Pharaoh's heart, is that one of the examples you're going to bring up or what are you what are you going to bring up here?
>> No.
>> Where he made something?
>> I'm in Jeremiah.
>> Okay. Go in Jeremiah. Yeah.
>> Jeremiah, my favorite poem.
>> Hey, let me Can you like talk a little less? It's like really annoying when you do it that way. Okay.
just like like let us talk also. You kind of like rambled for a really long time about um your job and stuff. So just let us have a little turn here.
Okay. Um so people can act however they want. They can be good or they can be bad, right?
>> Free will.
>> Yeah. And then he punishes them. Do they still have free will?
>> Um yes.
>> It's not free will if you're getting punished for it. Wait.
>> Freedom from consequences. And dude, really? That didn't that didn't really You didn't say that out loud, did you?
>> Yeah.
>> No. No. Think about that.
>> Part of the idea of free will is that you're not constrained by the fates that follow from it.
>> No, that is not No, that that is not at all.
>> It's free.
>> It's literally in the Miriam Webster.
>> Miriam. Miriam. Which which book of the Bible is Miriam in, dude?
>> Well, okay. So, well, let's use let's use the biblical let's use the biblical definition of free will. What does it say in the Bible free will is >> no that look I I'm confirmed in my faith. I want to I want to see what's going on on this side of the fence.
>> Yeah. Just let us know what like version of free will you're using biblically so we know what you're talking about when you say free will.
>> Is it in um like is does Jesus mention what it is or something?
H you know what? You're just going to roll over me like you have in this whole thing. If you're denying that we have free will, then you just haven't read the Bible. This is this is a simple point of >> I I'm not denying that we have free will. I'm saying that sometimes he gets engaged and interacts in this world and other times he doesn't.
>> All right. Now, if I can have the floor for 30 for 20 seconds. This is very easy.
>> Yeah. We just want you to explain what what you mean by free will.
>> There's there's a world that wants to kill us. There's bears and lions and tigers. Oh my. And the and and the world wants to eat us. Volcanoes and bad and people and a bunch of people who have free will. And the only way to get out of there is a helicopter flying above with a rope ladder. You can either grab the ladder or you can stay. If you stay, a bear is going to eat you, a tire's going to eat you, a volcano's going to burn you, or someone's going to slay you. But if you have the grab the ladder, you're up on a helicopter and you spend eternity in bliss. Now, if we didn't have free will, he would just pop everybody out like pets and just beam them into into the helicopter. But the fact that we can stay down here with the lions and tigers and bears, oh my, is our choice because he loves us.
>> We He's not punishing. We are punished by nature. We are born into >> I don't know what you're Are you talking about what free will is?
>> We have the will to grab the the >> limitations. Listen to my question. Are you explaining what free will is in your view right now?
>> Yeah. Well, free will is our our ability to direct the level.
>> Listen to my question. Was what you just said an explanation of free will?
>> Brief one, but it needs more expanding to go.
>> That was you explaining what free will is. Like from what I heard, Lamentations, it sounded like you were saying God made a world full of tiger, lions, tigers, and bears. Oh my. And that's scary. and we have to navigate this horrible world that God made. That has nothing to do with free will. That's God being cruel again, which is what we've been saying. I think we might agree. I think this is the problem. We we just agree.
>> Agree too much.
>> No, no, no. The temporary world, the eternal, you're you keep denying the eternal world that was promised throughout the entire thing, >> the eternal life.
>> You're looking at this thing through through a myopic lens.
>> Okay, hold on. Stop. Hold on. This isn't what we're talking about at all.
>> Nobody reads a Bible thinks like this.
limitations. I'm going to go to the next person if you interrupt me again.
>> It's annoying.
>> Wait, it's a youropic lens. It's not a myopic lens.
>> That's >> it's myopic.
>> I saw the word help and I thought I'd spend some time.
>> That was for you, Joel. Okay. So, here's what I'm saying. If God, the creator of the universe, who can do anything, intervenes with our lives, then he is removing part of our free will. Not all of it.
>> Not all of it.
>> Yes.
>> Does he? So if he interferes in some way, like if he um punishes me, if I if I kick my dog, I would never kick my dog, but if I kick my dog and God slaps me in the face, then he has removed my free will to kick my dog unslapped, which is what I wanted to do. Right.
>> I disagree. No.
>> Okay. So that's what I'm talking about.
That's where the disagreement is. So this whole volcano bear world that you're talking about is utterly irrelevant. you might as well talk about your job again. Like try to focus on what we're actually saying instead of like going off on a diet tribe. Like really respond to what we're we're talking about here. I'm talking about God punishing us when we don't have the will to be punished. It goes against my will.
>> So your your understanding of free will, I'm going to paraphrase this, is that we should be able to do anything and have no consequences like a goldfish.
>> Unless you want consequences.
Well, you have the freedom to choose badly, but the consequences don't go away. The only thing that has no consequences is choosing life.
>> Okay? If it's a natural consequence, like when I kick my dog, my dog is going to be mad at me. I get that. That's a natural consequence. If there's an additional consequence issued out by a divine being, then that's taking my free will that is interacting with me. That's it. It's now intervened in my daily life.
>> You've just introduced causality with when you said you would not.
>> You're not supposed to talk about causality.
>> The dog fighting you. You just you just made that a cause and effect.
>> That's not what I meant to do, Joel. I [ __ ] that up. Sorry. Okay. All I'm saying is that does God interfere in that way where he comes down to the world and like actually like touches people and intervenes?
>> Negative. He doesn't.
>> That would be an that would be an abolishment of our free will.
>> Right? That's talking about I agree with you. Stop talking. We're in agreement.
Don't mess it up. That's why when I read verses where he says, "I'm the one doing this to you." It doesn't make sense.
Now, it seems like the Bible's not true.
Cuz I agree with you. If he did come down and interact with the world, he would be taking their free will. And he couldn't take the free will. But it says here, when you say in your heart, why have these things come upon me? It is for the greatness of your iniquity that your skirts are lifted over your head and you are violated. I myself will lift up your skirts over your face and your shame will be seen. God says, I myself will do this act to you.
>> Which scripture can't Jeremiah 13? This can't be true. He doesn't interact with the world in that way. It's impossible.
The Bible's not true. I agree with you.
All right. I don't have that one memorized. I'm more in the lamentations right now, but uh we'll definitely take a look into that one.
>> Let's look at Let's look at a lamentation. Sure.
Uh Lamentations 4. The tongue of the infant sticks to the roof of its mouth for thirst. The children beg for food, but there's nothing for them. The hands of compassionate women have boiled their own children. They became their food in the destruction of my people. The Lord gave full vent to his wrath. He poured out his hot anger and kindled a fire in Zion that consumed its foundations. He >> put a fire down into my bones. Yes, >> he's the one doing it.
>> He put a fire down into my bones. He's He is impassioning.
>> Did you ask for a fire in your bone?
>> He's impassioning Jeremiah.
>> Did he ask Did Jeremiah ask for a hot fire in his bone?
>> Yeah. He needed to get off his ass and do something about the >> You think ladies who ate their children have the free will to eat their children?
>> That's precisely what it means, sir.
Yes.
>> Lamentations.
>> The one that drove them to.
>> God did not push them to do this.
>> Really going to lamentations. Do you Hold on. Do you change your name for every book of the Bible you're currently reading?
>> You should do that. Joel, >> that's really >> Joel reads uh what am I on? 1 Samuel.
>> Yeah, that'd be really smart. Yeah. Back in Jeremiah, it says, "And I will make this city a horror, a thing to be hissed at. Everyone who passes by it will be horrified. I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and their daughters.
All shall eat the flesh of their neighbors in the siege." He says, "I will do it." Now, is God wrong about this? Is it not him doing it?
>> Well, I don't have my Bible right in front of me because I'm online and it's usually in my phone. So, uh, I'm going to have to take your word on that. But I don't believe in context that is what is happening again. Again, you're you're starting this debate.
>> God just got God got that one wrong is all. Yeah. You're saying that God when God says I will do this, he just flubbed that line. That's fine.
>> So this is this was a prophecy that Jeremiah You're saying that Jeremiah wrote this, God told me. That's what you I don't Let me see if I can find it over here. I don't know. I'm gonna be I got a paper version, so it's probably gonna take too much time, but I'm going to take you on your word for that. Okay.
But we entered this thing with with an a bridged Bible that looked at things that took a good and bad lens on what happened on this earth and ignored the eternal gift. That's the promise throughout the entire book.
>> Yeah, I'm going to ignore the eternal gift because of how shitty this part is where he made people eat them their children.
>> Well, well, giving birth is shitty, too.
and life-threatening.
>> Yeah, that was a curse from God >> and a bless no a blessing from God. It it brings the next generation.
Literally, >> every person could have been like um made out of the dirt and clay the way he made Adam and Eve. There's no reason that birthing pains were required for life.
>> Then it wouldn't be a perfect universe.
He'd have to sit here and manage every every single >> birth pains is perfect. Nailed it. No, it wouldn't. He could just make it where life crawls out of dirt. He can do whatever he wants. He's God. Why are you limiting him?
>> I'm not limiting him. No, not at all.
The perfection of the universe speaks for itself. And again, I would have to get into nuclear physics to explain to you why the perfection ex absolutely glorifies God.
>> All right. Well, let's talk about that next next time because there was a whole bunch of other guests. Okay. Thanks for coming by, Lamentable One.
Sorry about um picked the worst day to do my morning shows. It's like the loudest day at my house.
>> Oh, I thought because of the guests, but okay.
>> No, no, no. It's just like it's when um uh you're mowing my lawn, so I should have like scheduled it differently, but um yeah, but it's nice to see out the window. Okay, let's uh let's bring in a few other guests here. We got um gosh, there's so many. I'll just go down the line. Uh I'm going to clear out some of these people who I know are believers or are atheists, sorry. Uh Hazelwood, welcome in. What's your age in religion?
>> Hey, good morning. I'm 32 and I'm a Christian.
>> Well, I'm starting to think that this whole uh Bible and God thing might not be real. What are your uh thoughts on that? You still buy it?
I mean, if it's not real, then what are you doing wasting your time talking about it?
>> Great point. All right. Well, we can uh talk about something else. Did you want to talk about something else or is that all you had?
>> No, I uh I kind of wanted to hear you guys' position as atheists. How do you justify things like good and evil or free will?
>> I don't justify those.
>> Well, I mean, you have to for every argument that you're presenting.
>> In what way? You said, "Is God all good?" Right.
>> Yeah. And that guy said, "Yes." So, I would justify it by in his view, God was all good. And so, he I asked him about it and he said, "Yes."
>> I don't think I don't think God is all good. I don't think so.
>> Okay. By what standard?
>> I just don't think he exists.
>> Well, how can he not be good if he doesn't exist? Be >> because things that don't exist good.
>> Yeah. They lack every property.
So they can't be evil either, >> right?
>> Okay. So, so you have to presuppose that he exists in order to argue against his goodness.
Have you presupposes good his existence?
>> His obvious what I can say is that when you read the story in the Bible, the character of God seems really shitty. I can say that.
>> Okay. Why is that?
>> Just because he kills all those people.
>> Oh, does he?
>> Yeah.
>> And why is that bad?
>> Like in the story it seems shitty. It seems shitty to me. If I read any story, like if I read uh like uh what's another book? What's another book? If I read the uh Cat in the Hat and the Cat came and killed the children and then like made thing one and two like [ __ ] like get chained up in the corner and he whipped them a bunch, I would be like, "Wow, this cat seems like a shitty character."
Would I be wrong to think that?
>> No, the cat's not God. He's a >> So, it's not a one analogy then. I'm just telling you it is because when I read the story, you can kind of tell who the author meant to be, the good guy and the bad guy.
>> Okay?
>> You can probably do it with Zeus or like other gods, other god characters be like, "Oh, that guy chopped off someone's head or, you know, was uh cheated on his wife or something."
>> Yeah. Like if I were reading the Iliad and the Zeus character came down and like raped a bunch of people, I would be like, "Uh, I don't like that." That seems nasty to me.
>> But why are any of those things bad?
Like where does the oughtness come from that the world ought to be different than those things?
>> Yeah. I mean, I have a whole different like system of morality than you probably do. Like I I subscribe to a different thing, right? But I I just am saying like you do you disagree that raping a bunch of people would be bad?
Like if Zeus raped a bunch of people, you'd be like this might be fine.
>> Oh yeah. When you frame it in the context like that, it sounds certainly bad. But I don't think you're representing the Bible accurately. I don't >> that's that's not in the there's no verse in the Bible where Zeus rapes a bunch of people. That's like that was like a hypothetical.
>> Sure. Again, another failed one to one analogy, but presupposing the Bible.
Your internal critique isn't on Greek mythology. Is it >> it's on the Bible like the promise. So presupposing the Bible.
>> Are you confused about what I what why I was talking about that? Actually >> I I think respectfully I I understand your analogies are not one to one. You keep pulling analogies and they're not one to one.
>> No analogy is accurately represent one to one. So let's so you can say here's a symmetry.
>> Let's hear let's do this since we're critiquing the Bible. Let's hear you accurately reflect the context in which all of these atrocities are taking in taking place in.
>> Which one?
>> You have several, don't you? All of these rape or or um murder like any any of them. Like if if there was a time where God murdered somebody.
>> Yeah. Just just pick one. I mean, you're critiquing the Bible, so I'm not I'm not specific.
>> In the story, he has the Amalachite children murdered.
>> Okay, >> there you go.
>> And that's that's it. It's that's just the context.
>> You asked for one.
>> Yeah, I asked for you to accurately reflect the context of what's being presented in the Bible.
>> Oh, sorry. So, in Exodus, when Moses left uh Egypt with all of the Hebrews, they were attacked by the Amalachites, uh they uh had this whole battle. Mo Moses had to hold up the staff and then God helped them battle the Amalachites.
They won. The Amalachites leave with their tail tucked behind their legs, but God says that someday he's going to eliminate the Amalachites from the face of the earth.
>> Hundreds of years later, we get to the point where uh Saul is becoming king of Israel. Uh Samuel tells Saul his first duty that he learned from God is to go slaughter the Amalachites. Uh so they do.
>> Okay, that's it.
>> Yeah.
>> Hazel, what's your take on this? In your opinion, is it good that God said to kill those children?
>> Uh let's get some further context before you get my opinion. So >> I want to hear your take on it because I want you to This is my take on it. You are getting my take on it. That is my take. My take is to provide the further context. What else were they doing?
some they >> that's literally all we know.
>> They must have been doing something to deserve the death penalty. Maybe we can find out what it is.
>> I would agree. They would definitely be doing something to deserve it.
>> What could children do to deserve it? Do you think they were like chewing gum at school when they weren't supposed to? Or maybe >> are those the only people that um face judgment? Is it just children? Or is that the argument of emotion?
>> Trying to think of what it could be that would make that >> That's an argument from emotion. Who else had to face judgment? Was it just children? No, all of them.
>> That's right. All of them. What were they doing?
>> Uh, that's what we're trying to all of the people in the land know. It's depicted. It's recorded. We know what they were doing. What? Do you know what they were doing?
>> I don't No, I don't know. You tell me.
>> They were doing child sacrifice.
Correct.
>> Where does it say that?
>> I'll pull the verse for you specifically. But if I do, does it change your opinion?
>> Yeah, absolutely. If you can say and and the Amalachites were doing child sacrifice in this verse, I would um I would be like, well, then those kids deserve it. If the kids were see you're slanting the emotional argument you're ignoring >> the grown-ups were doing jobs.
>> Do you hear how you need it to be about the children?
>> Do you hear how you need the argument to be f focused on the children? You can't you're not accurately reflecting everything because you would have to include the adults and what they were doing.
>> You're right. You're right. Yeah. Yep.
So you're right. So find the verse where the adults are doing sacrifice and and we'll say they I will say they >> uh it's in Leviticus 18:21.
It's in 20 2-5 and it's also mentioned in Deuteronomy >> 12. Let's just do one at a time.
Leviticus >> 18:21 >> 1821. This is hard. I've been looking for this.
>> To the Levites, I have given every tithe in Israel for possession in return for the service that they perform, the service in the tent of meeting. From now on, the Israelites shall no longer approach the tent of meeting, or else they were in incure guilt and die. How far down does it say that?
>> Verse 21.
>> That was 18:21.
>> Yeah, verse 21. It says Leviticus. Are you in the right book?
>> Oh, no. I thought you said numbers.
Sorry.
>> No, it's fine.
>> Sorry about Leviticus 18:21.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Okay.
Uh, this is These are like rules to Okay. You shall not give any of your offspring to sacrifice them to Molech.
and so profame the name of your God. I am the Lord.
>> So this is God giving a rule to the Israelites to not sacrifice children to Molech.
>> Yeah. In chapter 20:es 2-5.
>> Oh, okay. So that was the wrong one.
Okay. 20.
>> No, no, that's it's just there's more than one. I just want you to have a full context.
>> Just to be clear, this one didn't say the Amalachites are doing that.
>> It's talking about the people in the land of Canaan, and that would include the the Amalachites.
>> It's not >> it's not it's not isolating one person from another. It's treating the land as a whole.
>> Sorry. The Canaanites and the Amalachites are very different groups.
>> Are you Are you running though from the argument? Are you just trying to shift the goalpost thinking this doesn't apply to the >> I'm shifting the go? Yes, absolutely.
I'm shifting the goalposts by you bringing up the Canaanites when we're talking about the Amalachites.
>> Where do the Amalachites live?
>> They live in the uh >> land of Canaan.
>> No, they have like their whole like they're in the wilderness region.
They're a nomadic tribe.
>> Okay. And so and and so is there any evidence that they were not practicing this?
>> There's no evidence they were.
>> Right. So when it says that the people in the land are doing these things, would that include them too if they face a >> judgement? But it says the Canaanites are doing it.
>> But does it ever distinguish?
>> By the way, they are separate people and also it says why he's having them killed and never mentions child sacrifice. in Dubai from silence that you're depending on.
You got to like engage with this honestly. There's no reason to keep on trying to obfuscate. In Dubller 18, it says specifically the we are going to kill the Canaanites completely genocide all of those people in that land because they're doing child sacrifice. So when we're going to do that for the sake of child sacrifice, it's really obvious. It's evident.
That's what God says. But in this case, that's not what's going on. He says, "Hey, these people, you attacked, they attacked you 400 years ago. We got to kill their kids." That's all.
>> Did the Amalachites live in the land of Canaan?
>> I just looked it up because I wanted to be sure on this. It says, "The Amalachites were a nomadic warrior people who inhabited the harsh and region of the Ngev Desert, south of Canaan."
>> Uh-huh.
>> So, no.
>> So, there's a land of Canaan not including.
No, you're thinking of like the the greater Leavant region. There's there's Canaan and Judah and then south of that is the Ngev area where the Amalachites are.
>> Sorry, Hazel. This is this is >> so let's say let's say for the sake of the discussion go ahead Joel.
>> I know I know he's going to concede but I just because the audience we have a lot of dumb people in the audience. Um, what this guest is doing, guys, is desperately, desperately, desperately trying dishonestly to get have some reason to kill children, right? Even though it's so obvious that that's not why God said to kill those kids. He's just trying so desperately to make that fine. That's just for the audience, Hazel. I'm sorry.
>> Okay.
>> And so, um, so it's not quite the right region, but what was, uh, verse 20? Was that going to be about the the Amalach?
>> No. Chapter 20:es 2-5. So, not only could you not represent the Bible accurately, Joel, but you don't even represent me accurately. I I'm not I'm not desperate to make anything.
>> Are you trying to justify the slaughter of the Amalachite children?
>> I'm sorry. I thought I was going to have the respect to talk. I'm sorry.
>> No, you're not. Cuz you're overtalking everybody. So, we're going to do it back to you. Do you want to go back and forth?
>> An eye for an eye. Where does that justification come from?
>> Do you want to go back and forth or do you want to just do this?
>> No. No. I' I'd love to engage, but not >> then. Listen for a second. Are you trying to justify what happened to the Amalachites right now? Uh, >> no. I'm providing context. No, I'm provid We're getting there. You're not providing context. You're not trying to say that it was >> my my what I am trying to do is represent that you guys do not accurately reflect the context of scripture. When you make the argument that God is not just to do something, you ignore and leap and cherrypick. And I'm identifying one of the things that you guys cherrypick. So, for example, when it says the people in the land and it's indiscriminizing >> I'm sorry.
>> The people in what land?
>> The land that Israel is entering into, which is just referring to >> then why did they not kill the >> Kennes? I'm sorry. I was Yeah. No, I'm sorry.
>> Yeah. Actually, hold on a second. That doesn't make sense. Anyways, first of all, Joel's [ __ ] right. It says why they're killing them, and it's not about this. And in the next verse, Saul goes to the Kennites and say, "Hey, Kennites, get out of here. You're not you're not in trouble for right now." If the Kennites are in the exact same land, they're also doing this and they're not in trouble. It's not about the like whole people in this land are doing child sacrifice or he'd kill the Kennites, too. It's very obviously not that. You're being dishonest to the text.
dishonest like leaping from Leviticus to King Saul.
So I'm I'm merely just trying to provide context because you can't you you don't have a worldview that can even justify right or wrong and and you're you're coming into the scripture and you're saying this is bad but on a what basis we haven't established that yet.
>> Sure. I said any any justific >> it's very obvious that God is the bad guy because he's commanding the slaughter of infants.
in the story. Again, I don't think this is true. So, that's the argument of emotion.
>> I don't think this is true. Yes. It's an emotional.
>> Yeah.
>> It is.
>> You should have some try.
>> Because I was asking you to reflect all of the audience, not just one. So, when you isolate infants, it's just it's it's a hyperfixation on something emotional.
That's because the parents might have >> the parents might have deserved it.
>> And also, so like do you ever for for example, how long did God wait before doing this?
too long because the people who originally did the crime had long since passed on from natural causes and these were >> over 400 years, right? I >> I don't know if it was really 400. There there's a there's a bit of debate about how long it was, but it's like 16 generations.
>> It's like four generations at that time would be 100 years per generation.
That's how the word was used at that time. So about 430 years from the time of Abraes and with no telling with no >> I'm confused about what >> so when God says to Moses he says >> you hear that I'm confused about what you just said are you going to keep talking or do you want to clarify it?
>> What how long is a generation >> in in the context of when generation is used in Genesis? It pertains to a century.
>> I'm not talking about generations in Genesis. I'm just saying when you actually count the number of like >> correct. Well, I asked you how long God waited and so I'm giving you the time reference.
>> Oh, you know the exact time.
>> I think in his view it's >> not precise but approximate.
>> So Hazel, you're saying it's 1600 years.
>> No, I said it's 430 years between Abraham to Moses.
>> Okay. We're going from Moses when I said that. We're going from Moses to Saul.
>> And I'm going from Abraham to Moses to provide context sequentially. These are things that you leave out when you present this argument.
>> What the [ __ ] does Abraham to Moses have to do with the Amalach?
>> Because God decrees a judgment that's going to come to the land 400 years before it happens. Do you think in 400 years they had time to stop burning babies to death?
>> They weren't. You haven't.
>> Did they have time to stop for 400 years burning babies to death? Yes or no?
>> Yes. Plenty of time.
>> Absolutely. Do you think 400 years is a lot of time to give people a chance to repent?
I >> I think it's too long because they're all very long time, isn't it? What are you talking about punishment for somebody who burns a baby to death? What is the fair justice for?
>> Hey, can you stop? Like, this isn't like we're not on trial. You You're barreling through like like I'm like on the witness stand. Can we just get so I have to get my piece out?
>> Okay. I want you to come back, Hazel.
Slow down, dude.
[ __ ] We can hear you snorting cocaine between every like interruption that you do. come back up.
Have like a have a little bit of like relaxation.
If I'm wrong about this and it's good that the Amalachite children were slaughtered, I would like to know that.
I would like to know that. I'm very interested in that because that would like really uh mess with my worldview.
I'd be twisted up. I think that would be very intriguing. So, I want to hear what kind of context can make that uh okay to you. Come back up, slow down, and just tell me.
And if I if I say something like if it gets up here and Hazel, if you say something that I get stuck on and go, I don't know what that means. I'm going to stop you and say, can you clarify that just so that if you bulldoze past it, I'll be I'll be stuck way back where I was confused. So, if you want me to understand you, you have to you're going to have to communicate that way. Okay.
>> Sure. What are you confused on, Messo?
>> Okay. So, you just asked me how long did he wait before like punishing them? My response was too long because the people who did the original crime of attacking the the Hebrews had already passed. Do you do you understand what I mean by that?
>> Uh no. No. Because it sounds like if if I understand correctly um original crime of attacking the Hebrews pertains to what exactly?
When Moses left Egypt, the Amalachites, this is like the first time that the Hebrews and Amalachites get mixed up with each other since like Esau's time, right? Uh this first time the people like the people group of the Amalachites mix up with the people group of the Hebrews and they have a skirmish and the Amalachites lose, right? That's what this punishment in 1 Samuel is for.
It says in the verse, "For what they did back when Moses and the Hebrews were trying to leave Egypt." It says that's what it's for. So, how long did he wait to punish them for that? Too long.
Because it's been 16 generations.
And the people who did that attack are already dead. He's punishing the wrong people.
>> I'm trying to find it for you. It's back in Genesis where the Amalachites are mentioned. Yeah, they're mentioned as Amalecch, the like grandson of Esau.
It's like uh Esau's son's uh concubine.
Uh he had like had sex with a concubine instead of his wife and so the offspring was Amalecch and is cursed to be shitty or something like that.
>> And I think you Hazel, you might also be looking for the passage about the Amorites that their sin isn't in the word.
>> Yeah, you're right. Yeah, >> that's the word.
>> Okay, so that that's pro Thanks Joel.
That's why we were I was like, "Why are you bringing up?" Okay, that's fine.
This is okay. We're okay. And thank you so much for coming back. I appreciate it.
>> Yeah. Yeah, no worries. Um I'm trying to find it off the top of my head. I might have to search to pick it out. Um there's there's something else um to consider after um since the Bible operates in what secular language would probably describe as epochs. Um uh theological terminology would be like covenants. um entering into the covenant following the post flood um there is something that God says to Noah about the consequence of spilling blood. Do you remember what he says?
>> No.
>> He says if you ever shed blood that's like I'm the some another human's going to have to do it for me I can't kill.
>> No. It says whoever sheds blood of his blood I will require. Right.
>> Okay.
>> So we would say that that's capital punishment.
>> But that's Yeah. But Hazelwood, that's to an individual or to an to a people group.
>> Are you asking me? Is that a question or a statement?
>> Yeah, I'm asking you what like was God talking about if like a guy named Dan kills someone, I need Dan's blood or does he mean uh if like the the people of South America, any one of them kill anybody, then I need all of South America's blood for all time. I don't think it's either or.
It might be both and because it doesn't say and I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to impose something it's not saying. I don't know.
>> Okay. Well, for your argument to make sense, it has to be the people one.
>> It explicitly says that like the person's family cannot take their punishment like the dad or the you know whatever the brother it has to be the individual it and it's at >> I don't know which chapter but it's in Dubller again. Uh maybe 25. There's the sins of the father, but yeah, you're right. Specifically for the blood, there are verses where he's like, "No, it has to be that person. You can't like uh >> like if someone does a crime, I can't have one of their brother's blood for that. I need theirs." So, it is specific to individuals. Okay.
>> And so, so kind of, you know, imagine even the way when I came up here like like I I don't want to I don't want to harp on this, but even the way you just phrased it a minute ago, you're like God can't do something himself. He has to have people do it.
>> I mean, is that accurate?
>> No. that there's a verse where some some other Christian came in one time and argued for that. I thought that's where you were going. There's some verse where it says like >> with murder like with the taking of blood, I won't do it myself. Someone else, another human has to do it. So, I thought that's what you were doing.
>> I don't think that's going how can you expect me to come up here and be of good faith and be genuine if that's how you reflect and represent our beliefs because you would know. I mean, obviously who rained fire on Sonora? Was it a man or >> someone came up and said that and it was weird. I agree. I was like this is crazy. didn't say that, right? I mean I mean I didn't say that.
>> Hazelwood, I just thought that's the verse from cuz it's around Noah when it happened. I thought that's what you were saying cuz you asked me what does it say? So I was just guessing. I >> I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. But it's it just kind of it's pointing out to what I was telling you that like if you are if you are going to engage, man, at least at least represent accurately. And I'm pointing out details that you do not include when you make these arguments. Like for example, the premise that God is the sovereign judge and arbiter over his creation. And he has demonstrated by the time the Amalachites are in question, he has already flooded the world. He's rained fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, brought plagues to Egypt. And and then we have this scene where it's like, well, it's not fair because he's telling Israel to do it without any epistemic justification on your part without any other worldview to reference because we haven't heard anything yet how you can even determine these things.
>> And I want >> your basic argument is I just don't agree with that.
>> Yeah. Well, yeah, I don't. But that is >> like Okay, but what's your opinion, man?
My opinion is that I don't think children should be put to death. That's my opinion. That's my problem with this.
I'm open-minded, Hazelwood. I I'm open-minded. If you can say, "Here's why children should be put to death. I know that's emotional. That verse makes me emotional. That's where I'm stuck.
>> That's that's why I'm stuck on that verse. Emotionally, I go, uh, if I should look at this analytically and that you can go, well, set your emotions aside. Here's the logical reason to put children to death." I'll hear you out.
I've heard people try to do it. It's disturbing. But here's the um uh the the verse I think that I was talking about, just so we know. Um whoever sheds the blood of a human by a human shall that person's blood be shed. That's why I was saying God can't do it himself because it says by a human. God's not a human.
>> That's Genesis 9:6. He's talking to Noah. The reason I guessed that that might be the verse that you were talking about is because it is.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's the verse I'm referring to.
>> Yeah. So, I nailed it and you got mad at me.
>> No, I got mad at you for the way you framed it. You said God can't do it himself.
>> He chose to not do it. He said to make it be humans. That >> and there's a difference between chose and can't. And what's the rest?
>> Once he once he chooses it, can he go against it?
>> I'm sorry. Once he chooses it and it's in scripture, can he change his mind?
>> Uh, the only time we see changes are in circumstances. So, can't choosing it's it's kind of a loaded or nuanced question. I think it's important you read the rest of the verse though.
>> Sure. Sure. That's fine. I for in his own image God made humans.
>> So, that's the grounding of why we we say taking the life of another is right or wrong. Wouldn't you agree?
>> I I know that that's why Christians say yeah. So, I understand that. But is there another reason?
>> Do do you understand now why I said that? That's what the the phrasing is. I know you don't like the phrasing of it, but it does say that.
>> No. What was the phrasing?
>> Whoever sheds the blood of a human by a human shall that person's blood be shed.
We don't know it right here. If God is saying that's this is doesn't have to be like this, but this is kind of how I'd like it to be is if you guys would kill each other instead of me doing it. Or if he's like, "Look, this I'm righteous.
I'm I I am all good. You guys are going to have to do that because I can't do it.
>> Well, well, in a second I'm going to get to that. What translation are you reading out of, by the way?
>> Uh, this is the like new revised.
>> Oh, the NRSVUE.
>> Yeah. Yeah, >> it seems to be some people's favorite.
Mine doesn't read that way. I was I was just curious. Um, and >> whatever version. I don't get I'm just all I'm doing is like explaining to you why I thought that's what you were going to and and I by the way to remember that Genesis 96 and I nailed it pretty good.
You should be impressed not mad at me.
Okay.
>> No, I'm not I'm not mad at you. I just I want I want um a fair representation of it. And and so when I read 96, whoever sheds man human blood by by man his blood shall be shed for in the in the image of God he made mankind. As for you be fruitful and multiply populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it. How do you not take that away and go, it seems like God's desire is to see life flourish?
>> Yeah.
>> How do you how do you take that >> Yeah.
>> any other way than other than what it says?
>> Does it seem like when you read these like God's desire is to see human life flourish?
>> It sounds like he's saying uh there's punishments. If if you kill someone, you have to be killed.
>> Well, it says there's there's punishment for taking life, but then there's also be fruitful and multiply. Wouldn't that be >> Yeah, I think this is the Go ahead, Joel.
>> I was just saying I think that you're right. There's like uh different contradictory ideas that are happening in the Bible all the time. But what I think is really interesting, Hazel, is that like you're saying we're disingenuous and we're not or me is dis I don't think you said that about me, but um I'm not and but that we're just like not answering questions directly and we're misrepresenting things. But like I I would be really curious to know that you think it's okay or maybe you don't that God commanded the Israelites to kill those kids and why you think it's okay because that's really the big question right now. We we really want to know your view on that.
>> That's what I was going to exactly what I was going to say, Joel, because all of this context is really interesting and the history and stuff. Um, and and but I wonder if like if at the end of all this context and history work we do, we get to the point of the thing here when Hazel goes and that's why it was so bad that God killed the children, then we'd be like that's what we've been saying all along, you know. So why don't we, just to be clear, do you think because those the children of the Amalachites didn't shed blood, they're not they didn't spill blood, right? So, they haven't done the thing deserving of death, those particular infants. Do you think that they uh were rightfully chopped in half by swords?
>> Yeah. So, we're in the process of answering that. And the reason why I'm doing >> We just want to know what your opinion is first so we know what what we're answering.
>> Sure.
>> Are you answering that it's good that it happened or that it's bad that it happened?
>> I'm I'm providing uh the context that that it's left out and I'm and I'm demonstrating why it's bad. going to tell us the context to say why it's good that it happened or why it's bad that it happened.
>> No, I'm I'm giving you the context that you've left out.
>> Okay. All right. Well, thanks Hazlewood.
Good talk.
Yeah.
>> And if you can't answer the question, Hazlewood, you know it's bad. If you can't say it, you know it's bad. Own it.
I would love I would love to hear all the context as to why it's good. That would be interesting to go through. But if the context as to why it's bad is they killed those children. That's easy.
We don't need to do all this other stuff. We're done.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, I don't want to waste all the time doing it. If that's where you're going to end up. So, I and I don't know where he was going.
>> The cont in the chat. He goes, "They hate context."
No, we like you're not answering the question.
>> Okay. Um, lots of guests here. This was someone who was trying to come. Hey, robot goat.
How are you?
>> Hey, you guys would not believe who I just saw in a top hat holding a million dollars.
>> Who was it?
>> Have taken a picture.
>> Keanu Reeves.
>> God damn it. So close. That That would have been a really cool coincidence.
That would have been that would have been a like divine coincidence. Remember that guy in my live? Um I don't know if you guys heard it. When was it? Was it Friday who was just like another coincidence? He was just all about kowinky dinks. It was really funny.
>> It wasn't the Titus guy, was it?
>> It might. You Titus came on mine. That one? No, I think it was after that. I don't remember now >> cuz that was that's still one of my favorite conversations.
I hated it, but I loved it.
>> This is confusing. Um, robot goat.
>> What's What's this? What's this? What's going on here?
>> E, >> why? What is this? What is Why? Why is this?
>> You're echoing. I can hear myself. Yeah.
Um, I'm at work to get away from that freak, so I don't really know. Like, I'm on my lunch break. I don't want it to come back up. So, if he could just like not make that happen, that would be so great.
>> How did this occur? How do you How did you drag me up against my will? I didn't know.
>> You've been in my guest box for like for two weeks.
>> I thought you guys were doing some sort of a bit together.
>> Get me the [ __ ] out of here.
>> No, we we we try to avoid each other as much as possible.
>> Well, uh, Robot Goat, um, why don't you hang out for this, uh, conversation? Uh, Crunt here is a is a riveting deist.
Hey, Crunt.
>> That's right. You remembered. What's up?
>> Yeah, I'm starting to uh lose faith in God and the Bible. Do you want to talk about it?
>> Well, I think you should definitely not have faith in the Bible. Um, that's not what I'm interested in.
>> Nailed it.
>> Can I ask you, were you once a Christian?
>> Yeah. I'm uh I'm amazed by the amount of uh Christians that go straight from maybe realizing some like ancient stories from ancient Seemetic tribes are probably fictitious and barbaric to jumping straight to the conclusion that there's probably no creator or sentience beyond like biological organisms.
>> Why why would that amaze you and what does it have to do with me? Uh because I feel like the uh the discussion of whether or not there's a some sort of creator or omnipotent body sentient underbelly in the universe is pretty fascinating. And uh I I I just feel like a lot of people are turned away from it simply because of >> Give me an example of someone who did that who like went from like Christian to like full-blown atheist right away.
>> Well, you said that was that's you, right?
>> No, >> you're not an atheist.
I am now. I mean, I took a bit of a break in between, but it was a very short break. Menzo, >> I was a really gifted student at becoming atheist.
>> Mhm. And I've been like fully blown as an atheist, >> right? Which is not surprising.
>> Who blew you?
>> Personal.
>> Too too private. Yeah. No, I uh I I was uh a lot of things before I was an atheist. Were you a secular deist at one point?
>> Uh, I don't know if I would use that word or not, but probably probably.
>> Okay.
>> Think happens, Krunk, is that you you when you're a Christian, you have a lot of the trappings of deism, right? Like you're talking about those descriptions of God, they apply to Yahweh, right? And so once you abandon that, you've actually thought through all the things that debunk deism too in a lot of ways.
So you're like, I I I I maybe not all the things, but a bunch of them. And so you're sitting there going, you know what? I I don't buy this this Bible god character, but until I have evidence for some other thing, I'm not going to bother with those other concepts either.
Like I'll just walk away entirely. And then there's never any good reason to go back.
point, >> right? But believing in Yahweh or the Christian God, it it it requires believing in like earthly miracles and God intervening in ancient warfare.
>> Yeah. But but that's not the whole scope of the uh concept, right? So I can abandon a talking snake. I a lot of Christians have I can abandon, you know, the talking donkeys and the parting of the Red Sea and then I'll be like, "Yeah, but then Oh, hold on. He was in the middle of a sentence."
>> Sorry. Sorry.
But then you know ultimately there's still these god like the omniscience or the the you know all powerful thing or the creator thing and all those things are also things you have to deconstruct and >> yeah so so they're all part and parcel so you can reject it all and there's no reason to go back but what did you want to say about Jesus?
Yeah. I mean, um, to step away from Christianity, you can't just walk away from some of the more absurd stories in the Bible, like the flood or the talking snake. You have to denounce the idea that Jesus Christ rose from the dead.
>> Yeah, that's easy.
>> What do you What do you think God is, Grunt?
>> Um, I don't know. I don't even I'm not even here to the idea that it's a creator necessarily. I just believe in sentience beyond like animals and organisms. It just makes more sense to me.
>> I've never talked to a deist who like has a worldview.
>> Isn't that strange?
>> What do you think? What do you think's out there? I don't know.
>> Meth.
>> Why do you Why do you think it's sentient?
>> What? Whatever Whatever it is, we don't know what it is, but you think there is something sentient.
>> Yeah. I just I I don't I'm not going to pretend like there's evidence. There's obviously not if there was that that would be a settled discussion but um >> not really. People like fight about flat earth [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah. Of course. But amongst like most sane people it would be a settled discussion. I it's just >> Yeah. But for you though instead like >> Yeah. Yeah. Existence just fascinates me and um it creeps me out and it I know this is a loaded word.
>> This is the fallacy of incre increul.
You're doing a thing where it's like, uh, I don't understand how amazing this all is, so it must be some guy. It must be a >> Well, no, it's not just I don't understand. It's that there's no answer >> to >> like why things exist to why like the photon field or the quantum field.
>> You're saying the answer is something with a mind.
>> Well, I'm saying there is no answer that humans can like logically >> then you're agnostic, buddy. You're not a deist.
>> Yeah, that's not deisism.
>> Well, no. I I I believe in the divine.
>> Wow.
>> Just based off of vibes. Admittedly, just be just based off of vibes.
>> Okay.
>> That's not really a good way to construct a an opinion on something.
>> Well, there's no there's no logic to be had to the fundamental question of why things exist. That's like a brick wall.
That's where like you >> have you read all the like philosophy books about ontology? That's their whole thing.
There's like departments of it where people like smart people are using logic to figure out the nature of being in existence. That is what philosophy.
>> Have they gotten an answer?
>> There's much debate about it. But but none of them are going to go but honestly for me it's just vibes. It's just vibes.
>> That's all you're left with intuition >> and and it's and it can be very wrong.
Right.
>> So what do you want what do you want to talk about with me then? You want me to have the same vibes as you?
>> Yeah, kind of. I I want to know >> I'm interested to know why. I mean, admittedly, atheism >> is true.
>> Step >> because my vibes point to atheism. I kind of just get the feeling that God, you know, >> why vibes point to atheism.
>> I also do that vibes are important.
>> Vibes can be very very important. Uh but it's better to get a rechargeable one than battery operated.
>> You don't use a plugin? I mine's wall like I I because I it's a higher um voltage.
>> I use the I use the stove plug for mine.
It requires the stove one.
>> Oh, the big the big washer.
>> Plug the stove and I just shove in my dildo.
>> I use the cigarette burner in the car for mine sometimes.
>> Oh yeah. Let's see. That's too weak. You want something that You know what? If you if you have to unplug the dryer to get it plugged in, just use the dryer.
Turn that on and sit on that. Put some shoes in there. It'll shake you up real good.
>> If I used robots goats, I would be like, "Oh, this tickles." You know, you need a lot more.
>> Hey, my goats vibrate a lot. They might have just as high voltage as whatever mess I was using.
>> Sound like this.
>> But crunch.
I can't do it. Joel, we were talking about it the other day. I can't do it as good as you, man. Oh my [ __ ] god.
>> Especially when Especially Especially when it's like the name is Crunch. Like if it was like but but you know but like it's really >> But >> yeah, what do you have to ask me? Here's here's part of the reason is uh you know Joel was really on to something that we were all taught this story that behind the universe behind the nature of existence there's a mind there's a Yahweh right >> and in Hinduism it's a different mind and in Islam it's a sort of different mind and uh and everything has this mind behind it and it's it's a bit obviously like it's mind ccentric thinking minds are going to think that what they don't know about has a mind because minds think right so that is that's sort of a a bias that minds are are stuck in now I don't think that you can say just because uh or or once you once you what I mean to say is like once you start to deconstruct the Yahweh from that or the Jesus or the Brahman or whatever else it does start to disassemble the idea that there's a mind at all because They were using that as an explanation back then because they knew [ __ ] nothing. They were dumb [ __ ] and they didn't know what was going on. They used it to describe the weather. A mind is making it snow. We have to uh act a certain way to get it to rain because the the weather will notice us. But then we learned later the weather doesn't notice us. The weather doesn't notice.
That's not that's not an attribute of weather to to like be aware, right? So, we've removed that from weather and then they just apply it to the next thing that we don't know about. This is just God of the gapes, right?
>> Gaps. Yeah. Oh, gapes. Yeah. Like uh >> either way there there's a there's a >> gaping hole in >> there's a hole in the in our knowledge.
Yeah.
>> It means the same thing. But whatever they like different mind you cram into your gaping hole doesn't like really answer it. So when you say there's not an answer to something, well I'm going to shove this answer in there. That doesn't mean it's the right answer just cuz you have a vibe about this gate, right?
>> Yeah. But you're you're using analogies with things that there are very simple naturalistic explanations to like human existence specifically like how we're human beings with advanced brains or uh the rain why it rains. I don't think that really >> I can explain >> it's comparable to like the ultimate question of like the mystery of existence itself. I think that's uh >> I can explain why we have >> evolution.
Oh, >> right.
>> Okay. So why'd you act like we didn't know?
>> No, I said we do. I said I'm saying asking that question for things where there's >> very uh evident naturalistic explanations is not comparable to the the the ultimate question.
>> Well, here's then here's the ultimate question about the ultimate question.
Why and how could it be the case that the answer to this ultimate question of what does it mean to exist or or why do things exist is like a guy is a is a single being with a mind. Why would that be >> why would why would it be that you have vibes towards that? I think it's your bias. I think your mind wants it to be kind of like you to give yourself some relevance in this greater cosmic universe when you look at like pictures from Hubble and you're like, "Holy [ __ ] it crushes your ego." Not just you in particular, but this is what a lot of Dist.
Yeah, y'all have carbon and hydrogen. I got that, but I have a mind and Jupiter doesn't. And so I'm going to apply that to the greater thing to connect with the greater cosmos. I really think that that's what's happening.
>> Yeah. I think um maybe this is just me trying to distance myself from that thought process, but I'm not it might not be a mind and it might not be logical or conscious like us. just just a thing that's kind that kind of feels, you know, like like like like to like the way Christians sometimes describe God as being everywhere, like the universe itself is God, >> right?
>> More like that than like it's a guy with logic and >> that's what >> pantheism.
>> Pantheism.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Look up pantheism. I was >> pan means like all-encompassing, right?
>> Yeah. I was a pantheist for a while through a dowist phase. That is one of the steps I took towards my more correct now view of atheism. So um but here's the thing neat. God is like not this uh being not like a you know this Yahweh man or you know like a individual mind that thinks it's just this like energy that flows or it is everything. That's cool. I don't know if God becomes the right word for it at that point because like it's now it's just this force of nature. It's it like is this natural forth of like uh existence, right? And and maybe there is some like Dao or a source. Some people talk about like a source thing, you know, like I don't know. I don't know what that would mean exactly, but something like that could exist. But like the reason I've talked about this before, the reason Marvel comic books are interesting is because of the they're guys, right? They're they're men and women, right, that are doing it. If there was a new Marvel superhero book that came out and it was just called Gravity. It was about the force of nature and the bad guys are like, "I'm going to get you." And then their gun falls because gravity got it. It'd be the worst book ever. But Gravity Man is a good idea for a book, right? Or for a comic book because it's like it personifies it. And all dism is looking at this confusion, this this void in our knowledge and it's personifying the void and saying it must be like gravity man. It's void man, right? It's question man. It's existence man. Whatever like is the thing about and you're like person. Am I personifying it? Absolutely. Pantheism personifies it.
>> Yeah. Because you're still using the word God. If you say, "I'm I'm a pantheist. I think there's some Dao or a source or an energy." Once you use feeling, you're anthropomorphizing. Once you use it thinking in any way, you're anthropomorphizing. There's a subtle difference between anthropomorphizing and personifying. And I always [ __ ] it up. I don't remember the difference.
It's like a weird literary subtlety. But but I do think that's what deists do. If you're going to say I think there's something out there, no, then then you're not a deist, right?
That's fine. You're something else. You could be a pantheist. That's fine. I think that's interesting. Maybe there is. And you can do that based off vibes.
It's not disprovable. But the moment you go and it thinks we should or it has this feeling that now you're personifying, you're godifying something for no reason other than all the religions have. You're doing it because culturally that's what we are used to doing. Religions personify voids. That's their whole thing. So you're you're like getting wrapped up in the old Christian roots and applying them to your new found uh view on on uh universality or something like that. So uh that's why I'm not a deist uh anymore. That's why I don't subscribe to pantheism anymore because I realize it it felt like a misnomer. It felt like we were we were trying to apply something deep within us that that was rooted in Christianity and other world religions because humans make religions. It's something we do and we're applying that to some greater question in the universe with no reason.
>> Yeah, I mean that uh that makes sense.
Um and the argument that humans might just search for that intuitively because it's like baked into consciousness also makes sense. My whole thing is just that I think there's >> not to not to search for but apply to based off of our mind our mind bias.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um I guess I would just say that's not that unreasonable when it comes to things. Again there there's no evidencebased arguments you can use to explain the nature of existence. It's uh again it's a brick wall. are all we're left with is intuition, which is why I'm not I'm not ashamed of saying it is just emotions based or vibes based. And uh are are you open to you said you stepped away from that completely? You're not even that open to the possibility of it anymore. Pantheism or >> dism I still have my uh like I have my Dao over here. like I I don't think it's true but um I I think that if you know science unveiled some uh great mystery to use a dowist word and it was like oh there is a a source like the Higs field is close there there is something about the Higs field that's like it it does like uh permeates >> frequencies >> and makes like bzons and quirks right >> uh I don't know if frequencies would be the right word to use there that sounds pseudocience but it's um uh it does permeate the entirety of the cosmos uh in one field which means there is something stringing together like the same field goes through us and the Andromeda galaxy that's interesting that there's a connectivity there and it does seem to be what like gives mass to atoms uh I might be saying that wrong but that sounds like it makes things exist right so that's really interesting interesting, but I don't think that I would look at that and go, "Ah, LSU was right. Turns out the ancient people nailed it." Not quite. It's more that like we've figured out over time this thing, right? You know, Lato was talking about something a bit different than that and we can like modify the meaning of it just like Christians do uh with the Bible to have it still like make sense to today even though they know that like Adam and Eve story is [ __ ] or whatever, right?
>> So, you know, they'll be like, "Well, it was actually about evolution." No, it's not. That's just not true. The story just was wrong. They guessed wrong. Of course, they did. They didn't know anything. They were idiots. It was It was a million years ago or thousands of years ago. So, we shouldn't and I think I told you this before, rather maybe it was someone else, but rather than like trying to uh figure out what new thing we find out and figure out what from the past they nailed, including Das from the past like, oh, what was [ __ ] Thomas Jefferson right about something here?
Let's just figure out what the thing is and then call it that. It's called the Higs field. You don't have to worship it. It's not a mind. It just is this interesting uh field that goes through everything. Just learn about it. It's cool. Like calling that a god is like applying religion to science. It's a bad way to like uh label the truths of reality.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to talk in circles and just keep making the same point, but like why the Higsfield exists is still like a I you know, there's nothing to be said about it. Um, still room for intuition in my opinion.
>> Well, I think you should I think you should look into it. I think we should try to figure that out rather than go, "Yeah, it's probably just a guy. Let's throw in the towel on this. That's that's a wrap on that. Next question."
Like, no. Well, instead of answering it with vibes, let's look into it. Make a hypothesis. Figure it out. I think that's a better way to go rather than to answer stuff with answers from ancient people. Okay.
>> But then you'd just be one more layer deep. Like then there's going to be another type of field or something naturalistic that we >> Does yours not do that? Oh, there's a god. Why does it exist?
>> Yeah. No, there's no answer.
>> Same. Yeah. Same problem, right? So So why would you shove in something that's why would you shove that in there? You know, >> just cuz it's divine purpose. Just cuz it, you know, adds meaning to you.
That's religious. Yeah. Yeah, it is. I understand if you want to be intellectually honest and only um >> you know, evidence-based why you would personally want to step away from that, but do you do you take any like issue with people um believing in that sort of stuff? Pantheism?
>> No, I mean I don't think it's true, but it's not as uh and I'll let the other people on the panel respond to this as well, too. Sorry, I've been going off on this cuz I I have a I do have a an interesting um I I have a soft spot in my heart for people like you because I was once like you >> just a little crunch in my 20s when I No, I I I went through this stepping stone where I I believed different versions of things and and I was still trying to like I think cling on to some form of uh of a god idea in order to um like justify my existence and my purpose and stuff. And um I found other ways to do that that were ungodly.
Um instead, just so you know, I I have a purpose still. It's great. In fact, it's better. But um and I can I can explain to you what I think about cosmic duty and and rarity and stuff like that. I haven't talked about it in a while, but I want to let other people um respond to um I don't know. I I don't think pantheism is true, but I'm not like mad at pantheists as much because they're never like, well, there must be some mind behind uh the entire universe and so we shouldn't let gay people vote, you know, like that's just never a thing.
So, it doesn't bother me as much.
>> Okay.
>> Robot goat Joel, do you have anything on that?
>> Oh, go.
>> Am I allowed to talk now?
>> I'll [ __ ] drop you.
>> Yeah, Dism. I'm not as familiar with it.
I didn't go through a uh a part of my deconstruction where I considered myself to be a deist. I pretty much went from like I'm a Bible believing Christian to uh I believe in Jesus, I don't know about the rest of it to like, okay, none of this is true. Um but I'm I'm kind of in agreement as long as people are not weaponizing their beliefs to harm people. Um I because usually I would say you know allowing people to believe untrue things is also part of the harm. But when I see people genuinely like trying to apply logic and seek answers and be willing to be intellectually honest about what we do and don't know and what we can and can't know. Um that to me is a much better place to come from than someone who's just like well it's just because God and he works in mysterious ways and his ways are higher.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, Einstein was like a pantheist, but then again, that is why he made atomic bombs to It was because of pantheism. He wanted to >> Well, he didn't know he was doing that, right?
>> I'm just kidding. It was just >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um, one more thing I would say.
>> Well, hold on. Joel was going to say something. Or were you going to say the exact same thing word for word? I was going to say uh half of what Robot Goat said, which was I think uh being open to believing things without any kind of evidence is dangerous across the board.
And especially when it's some sort of vague god concept. As soon as that becomes a little bit more focused and a little bit more, you know, defined and made up by people, it gets more and more dangerous, right? And that's when we get all sorts of horrific things happening because people are motivated by the makebelieve that they invented. So I think that it would be better to say why don't we just sit and wait for the evidence or search for the evidence and if we find evidence that leads us to believe there is some sort of a big power thing whatever you want to uh you know describe it as then great we'll believe that. But until then, if we open ourselves up to it, that's how Christianity emerges, right?
>> Yeah. Vibes lead to tribes because everyone like have different vibes. So, they start to section off. Vibe vibes lead to tribes and tribes lead to tribulations, right? So, it isn't like the best way to go about like formulating a worldview.
>> Well, I think it's very different types of vibes that the uh authors of the Bible were going off of. And I think they were assigning like absolute truth to their specific claims about the nature of God. I think that separates it. I don't think pantheism led to Islam and Judaism.
>> I agree. I agree. I I agree that it's completely different or I agree that it's different, but it's an evolution.
That's what I'm pointing to. So, you're already like opening yourself up to like, oh, I'm going to just believe something without any evidence because I feel it feels good or something. And that's really what Christianity is, is believing something without any evidence, too. What they believe is more devastating than what you believe, but what you believe can evolve into something devastating because >> it probably won't, but it could.
>> But it could evolution.
>> It's not in your lifetime. You write a book on whatever deist concept you have in your brain. Sorry. And then somebody else reads that and writes another book.
And then another person reads that and writes another book. Next thing you know, they're Nazis.
>> Yeah. And by the way, atheism could lead to shitty stuff, too. Like it's not >> I I I don't think that like it it doesn't have like we we are careful as atheists to go like let's make sure we don't start a cult, you know, like and I think as long as you do that, you're you're better off. I do just want to say this real quick, K, and then I'm going to talk to some other people. Um uh one of the things that you're looking for is like a life purpose, right? some sort of like what where do I fit in in this uh in this big thing um you know that's happening and and so there must be some mind out there that's doing it. If there isn't the good news is you have a mind still right? So if you need a mind in order to apply purpose, >> great. You got one. Use your mind. Apply purpose to yourself. Paintings don't mean anything until they see someone sees it and thinks about it. Right? Like a a statue of a like just a I don't know like a hot naked woman isn't hot >> until someone gets aroused by it. The mind is the part that gives meaning to that statue. you can give meaning to your own life. And and I think like for me, I value rarity. I think that that's just something that maybe I naturally do. It could be because some evolutionary reason we like uh use it for currencies or something like that.
But when you look out at the grand scale of the cosmos, it's ego shattering, right? It's it's huge. What are we doing here? But then you start to notice, like I said before, Jupiter doesn't think.
That whole galaxy doesn't think. They don't question stuff. They don't learn about stuff. They don't tell stories.
This rock can't do that. The plants, the gases, uh the stars, which are most of it, the emptiness, most of it can't think, tell stories, or learn. We can just based off of rarity. we should exercise that ability. So my purpose has has been to learn more about the universe and and to share it with these other minds because we might be the only part of the universe that can. So I've I've found some purpose through that and it's something I like to do and think about. Gives me a lot of meaning and uh you can find your own.
>> Yeah. Well said, I guess. Um yeah, >> also [ __ ] good. All right. All right.
Well, thanks for Oh, go ahead.
>> Oh, no. I was just going to say even pigs don't go, "What the [ __ ] am I doing here?" Like, they they're not asking those questions. We We're like the organisms that that we know of that are >> that are also that are like what is happening right now.
>> Do you think a sloth is like a second, >> I have got to get up.
>> I have got to do something with my day.
>> Amazing. All right, Kron, thanks for coming by, kid.
>> All right. Uh, yeah, he's a good kid.
He's tried to on here a whole bunch of times and I kept talking about Bible stuff and he got really mad at me. So, I wanted to Sorry for everyone who doesn't care about Dia stuff. I wanted to give that guy chance to hear out everything I think about disming amount.
I'm surprised by how long that was.
>> Uh well, I I'm sorry to call it short, but uh I got to go do some brain surgery. So, >> really this early? Oh, I guess it's Yeah, it's a little later for you.
>> Yeah, I'm three hours ahead of you.
>> Oh, okay. What are you What are you Are you taking one out or putting one in today?
>> To be determined. Bye.
>> Oh, okay.
>> When you're in When you're in there, take out the Christianity.
>> It's in there. They have to remember to remove the Christianity.
>> It's in the back. It's right in the back, too.
>> Yeah.
>> Bam. Welcome in. What's your age in religion?
>> Bam. Are you here on accident?
>> I believe it. I believe this is an accident.
It seems like a cool username. Oh, they follow me. Okay.
I see like subscribers in here.
So, let's see if this one works. Does that one work? Nope.
See if this one works.
Oh, nothing's working.
Oh, we talked to a deist too long.
That'll happen. That's one of the big mistakes. It's one of the big mistakes.
>> Bush League. Your worst league. Enjoy your least favorite league.
>> Can we stop? Like, that's But don't you think that a league of her own was Bush League?
>> That's right, folks. It is the top of the hour.
It is 1:20. What's going on with our throats today?
It is 1:26 p.m. in the afternoon.
Everywhere in the world, we're we're having a country time. It's country >> country country day.
>> Yeah, >> we're we're playing with some tits and uh Mezzo's hosting the living [ __ ] out of the tits.
>> We've got tits in the sidec car with JRB Tits.
And we've got Goth Sparkles accidentally probably in the hot seat.
Mezo.
>> Yeah, >> it's 1:27 top of the hour.
>> Oh, really? Do you do you do me a favor?
>> Yeah.
>> One second. I'm just see if I can get it.
>> Oh, >> the delay killed you, man.
>> Do you got to do it way early and then I'll like lean I'll fill in it cuz I I am on no delay.
>> Okay. Cuz I listen for the thing and then I'm trying to get a little ahead of it and I because I don't know. All right. We'll try again and I'll just do it. Ready?
>> Yeah. And and then and then I'll just be like, "Oh, take it away like this." You know, and then >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's try it again.
>> Hey, me. Do you want to take it away?
>> Yep. Do you mean Sorry. Do you mean like Okay. Just like a little bit slower than that.
>> All right. Give it a beat and then go, "Hey." And then Okay. And then say it >> like just say like say the word slower.
Okay.
>> Okay.
>> But stardom though. Okay then. Okay, now do it. Hey, Mezo, would you now like to take it away?
>> Yes.
>> Perfect.
>> Top of the hour here. 12:28 Pacific time. We are rocking these tits because today is Tuesday, suckers. That's right.
Beautiful tits morning out here.
Tuesday, May 5th.
May the fifth to be with you.
Sorry. May the 5th be with you. Oh, you know, we went to a a really fun um Star Wars thing yesterday.
My uh my local uh what do we call them?
Community. They had a May the 4th celebration. And um it was, you know, it's one of those things where you'll see I don't know like the cities Facebook ad or something in a magazine.
You're like, "This is going to suck, but let's take the kids there." And it was popping the [ __ ] off. Like probably 2,000 people there, food trucks, way too long of lines, overpriced. Um, then they had like an inflatable outdoor theater.
They're playing Star Wars and people are are all dressed up. There's like uh, you know, sports stuff going on, lights and things. And they had like some like like a real legit like Vader and all this stuff that they had brought out. So, it was actually pretty cool.
>> Sounds amazing.
>> It was a lot of fun. And uh you know, we stayed up uh super late getting sick on ice cream and and uh hot chips. So, it was great. And then yes, today's Cinco deio. And I'll be honest with you, I don't know what it is. Is it is this is this their Independence Day? Is this >> You know what? It it's uh something that we probably shouldn't try to appropriate. I think that that's the rule. I think >> about that too. And it's on a Taco Tuesday, so people are for sure like going nuts in like restaurants are appropriating this, right?
>> Yeah. You totally want to just be like, "Well, that's not for me." And then just let other people appreciate it and enjoy it and then like we just do arguments against God. Like, you know, that's our thing, right? But if you celebrate Cinco de Mayo, happy Cinco de Mayo to you.
>> And happy we can say that to you, but we're not we're not celebrating. We're not taking it from anyone.
>> It's not independence. It's a victory over the second French Empire at the Battle of Pueba in 1862.
Led by General Ignasio Zeruggoza. Oh, I know someone whose last name is Zeruggoza. I wonder if they're related.
That's cool. Um, >> can we say like we celebrate you having your day?
>> We should have we we should have a day where we celebrate we should make a holiday to celebrate other people who celebrate holidays that we don't.
>> Yes. Yes. And that's not appropriation cuz we would be celebrating them and we're not Yeah. And well and when we're celebrating them, we can like use the trappings of their celebrations.
>> People day.
>> People day. We celebrate people day and and it's >> actually not a bad idea. It's actually beautiful. People day is kind of a good idea. It does sound um people I whenever I hear people say it I hear the word peep hole like a little hole that you put your peep through for uh you know surprise wonders >> which is a double fun thing. Devil's celebrate it.
>> Yes. Get our dick >> suck. Yeah. The family got together. We made our peepphole.
>> Fire kids. Devil's public defender said cultural respect day. That sounds so boring and it's a bad name. But it is the cultural respect day.
>> Guys, it's cultural respect day. Like, who would like that?
>> Yeah.
>> It It's just like it's it's it's >> day would be Yeah.
>> You know, it's >> it's like when George Castanza had made up the person fund. Do you remember that one?
>> I don't remember that. He wanted to get people in his office wherever he worked at that time. Uh this is so [ __ ] genius like uh Christmas presents and someone gave him a thing that was like a donation in your name has been uh given to the Red Cross. And he was like this is such [ __ ] Wait a minute. It's genius. So he made up a thing called the person Oh, it was the human fund. Yeah, the human fund. and he just started handing cards that said a donation a generous donation in your name has been given to the human fund and it just didn't exist right he just made it so great I can man there's a lot of good stuff in that show >> um you know what I've been uh watching when I do I do some exercises do you ever do like exercises sometimes I'll do some of these >> well I've heard of it >> some motorcycle squats >> do that kind of stuff and I've been watching uh apparently there's a podcast called Smartless that has um um what's the guy's name? Sean from Will and Grace. Sean, I can't remember his name.
>> So, it's called Smart Ass.
>> No, no, no. Less >> smart list.
>> No, that that's what uh they should have called it probably, but yeah. Sean Hayes. Yeah. less like it's less than other podcasts and it has Jason Baitman and Will Arnett and there's like this behind the scenes documentary that um is uh like would kind of be boring but for just to put on like funny stuff while you're working out and um there was a reason I brought it up. Oh, there's a story I had I didn't really watch Will and Grace. Did you watch that show?
>> I've seen an episode or two. I didn't >> I don't I don't think I was allowed to like when I was in high school like that's the gay one you know and then by the time college came around I didn't have TV.
>> Um so we watched uh you know straight white sis shows like Seinfeld >> um but uh he said there was um some episode where Matt Damian was in and he was pretending to be gay. I saw this was a great plot. He was pretending to be be gay to get into like the gay men's choir so he could go on tour to Europe and then the Shawn character like figured it out. So he was trying to in him the whole time he was trying to in him which is just a great >> Oh that's funny.
>> I was like that's so [ __ ] clever. uh just like and like fully reversed it like man it kind of made me want to go back and watch that show cuz I've seen a couple of them and um but it's it's so hard to watch >> like old um sitcoms though the the clapping track [ __ ] clapping. It's just so hard to hear. Yeah, >> I can't really go back and do that. But yeah, maybe someday. God, what a great thing we could do with AI. Someone should use AI to go through and edit all the clapping out of old TV shows.
>> Just the clapping or the laugh tracks as well?
>> All of it? Yeah. All like all the studio audience.
>> I think I've seen cuts of like two and a half men maybe. The >> Oh, I've seen Yeah. Kramer comes in and just stands there for four minutes and it's all silent and everyone's just looking around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Have you seen the one I think there were two and a half men? Actually, this is probably this is ages ago, but um and it's just a guy going what? Like just reacting appropriately to the uh the show. Huh?
>> For like a while. The one I saw that was so funny, someone did it to the Wonder Years. Did you watch The Wonder Years?
>> Uh yeah, The Wonder Years had a laugh track.
>> No, but it had inner monologue and they took that out. And so it was like, um, hey Kevin, uh, do you want to go to the, um, you know, to the basketball game or to the ice cream shop after basketball and he's just like, and it cuts back to her and she's like, and then he's so funny.
>> And it's like slowly zooming in and he's just like, and then he goes, no, >> this is this is like Garfield without Garfield.
>> Exa Yeah. Yeah. Exactly like that. Yeah.
[ __ ] And and again the >> or Garfield minus >> the best thing ever. All of like that era just had one too many things.
>> They're all really funny stuff. They just had just take one thing out, you know?
>> And then it's so absurd. It's brilliant.
Yeah.
>> And Garfield Minus Garfield is some of the hardest I've ever laughed. Like for sure the hardest I've ever laughed cuz I I bought like the book and to like look through a comic book that's the hardest I ever laughed at like a you know comic book >> four panel comic. Yeah.
>> I could not stop. I was like just absolutely in pieces. And it's so weird because you know to get someone to laugh at that level at least for me I need like to hear it. You know what I mean?
Like the timing has to work right. And uh but they they get that figured out in like it kind of worked out because there's these blank panels. It adds timing. It just [ __ ] killed me, man.
>> It's really funny.
>> Yeah.
>> Good stuff.
>> Oh, I should read a super chat. Someone said, "Remember the Far Side?" Yeah, the guy Gary Larson. Uh we went to college together. Okay. Um I have some super chats and I totally have been ignoring them. This is from a while ago. This is a great one. First one of the day from serial dude sent two bucks to say god do or god didn't with an apostrophe and I love that. I absolutely I'm going to do that my next um today's uh episode is called god isn't be good but I will do godant next time I'm just say godant because that's actually a good shirt idea. Can we steal that serial dude? Um Gretchen sent five to say, "Can Desperate Guest give us context about why the Israelites also being Canaanites? Sorry, but we need but we in the audience are pretty dumb. We need the context. Thanks." Yeah, that's a good point. If everyone in the land is doing child sacrifices, that would include the Israelites. But no, it's just not the case. There's there's the Canaan area and then the NGV area um down below where the Amalachites were around that area. Yeah, they all intermix and stuff and a lot of them were doing shitty stuff, but um none of the Amalachite infants had done human sacrifice. Their hands aren't strong enough.
>> We checked into that. I've tried to give uh like infant babies, you know, they can like squeeze your pinky and you're like, "Okay, pretty strong."
>> Yeah.
>> But then you give them a knife and put them near another kid, they won't do it.
>> They won't stab them.
>> They drop it. They just suck on the knife and stuff. They can't get over there. One time I like had a couple of babies there and I created a bronze statue. Let set the like a fire under the hand. So the hands were really >> to the one baby. I go, "Lay the other baby on the hands."
>> Yeah.
>> Lay the other baby on the hand. That >> But they can't pick the other baby.
>> Yeah. They they just like giggled for a bit. Well, they're on a blanket and they were playing with >> you have to kind of do this like um you get them over to to like where the hot plate is or the knife and stuff and you kind of go, "Hey, >> right.
>> You have to really lead him to it.
>> Drag your brother. Drag your brother."
>> And they just won't do it. And so and at some point and and we did get one like to be fair there was one case where the baby poked another kid and they fell onto the things but it seemed >> I I had a hard time being like I would count that as sacrifice.
>> Part of it was that like the tickling and the kid was laughing so hard and just like and I think you pushed him a little bit. I think you pushed him which pushed the other kid. Well, it was like the other kid pushed, but the like you pushed the kid to push. You know what I mean? It was like the domino thing.
>> Yeah. I don't know if that counts or not, but I'm going to read I'll put the video in the Discord. We'll talk to this. Yeah, thanks. I would like to >> uh delete that. It would be better if vibes led to tribing. That was from Orin. Hey, that's an interesting idea, Orin. Yeah, if vibes led to tribing.
That sounds like uh the plug-in thing that Joel was talking about. Um, uh, hey Mate, are you a a Christian Mate?
>> Y, >> something's going on. Like there's a lot of weird background noise. Can I just I'm just going to mute you for a second while that airplane goes over cuz um, it's really loud.
Why is it still Why am I still hearing it?
I think it's the uh lack of connection there.
>> Um, Game Master sent 10 damn dollars to say, "Hell yeah, the trinity of Mezo, Joel, and RBT GT." In the MC, I'm going to mute you again. Just stay stay muted for a second because you have a lot of background noise. It sounds bad. And I'm going to read this and then we'll talk.
Okay. In the middle of the day, fortune truly smiles on me. Well, robot goat left, so you're out of luck. Eat [ __ ] be mocked. I'm going to make that shirt.
Eat [ __ ] get mocked. Uh, warehouse DM sent to say, "I found something for BBH." First Corinthians chapter 11.
Mate, are you familiar with First Corinthians chapter 11?
That's interesting. Wait, chapter 11?
I think I have this one. Oh, yeah. This is the head coverings one.
This is the one. Uh, so I usually do the Man, we you don't have Wi-Fi. We can't understand what you're saying. Maybe turn the camera off. We'll be able to hear better because it's taking up all your bandwidth showing you showing your beautiful face.
Just turn the video off and then just talk. Yeah, we can hear you better.
So, I usually do First Timothy.
Um, there's a whole bunch like throughout the Paul's writings, there's a bunch of these women are [ __ ] type of verses. Don't listen to them, don't let him talk type verses. Um, and the head covering stuff. It's in Ephesians. Um, there's there's a few other places where it says it. The reason I went to the Timothy one more was because um there's a part of it is like because uh men were formed first and women second or women sinned or something like that. And so it's it's like pin it really lays out that it's like all women. The way that it's phrased it's like seems to refer to like not just the women in this city over here. Cuz some people like, "Well, that was just for the people of Corinth." But no, in Timothy, it's like very clear. It's like women were the ones who sinned. Eve sinned first, so it's women's fault, so don't let them talk. It It's like listing it out more generalized. I think that's why we ended up choosing that one. But yeah, this one is brutal. Says, "For a woman will not veil herself, she then she should cut off her hair. But it if if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off to be shaved, she should wear a veil. For man ought not to have his head veiled since he is the image and reflection. Yeah, this is a brutal one. Like men shouldn't wear coverings, right? This goes against the yarmaka. This is why Christians don't wear yamakas because in Christianity they go we shouldn't wear coverings because we should be like connected with God. Women should cover their heads though. They should be humbled. Neither was man created for the sake of woman but woman for the sake of man. For this w for this reason, women ought to have authority over her head because of the angels. Oh yeah. And this is this great line where Paul says, "Because of the angels." And everyone goes, "What? What does that have to do?" What? Because of the what? There's just no reason to say that.
It's a really weird mate. Are you there?
>> Yan. Yammon.
Uh, Genji sent 20 goddamn dollars to say, "Say more about going to college with Gary Larson." Yeah, he's a Washington State alumni. That's just where I went to college. He He was like, uh, we weren't like friends, you know, he's a little a little bit older than me. How old's Gary Larson?
>> Did he leave the school before you started attending it?
>> He's 75.
Mezo, did he leave the school before you started attending it?
>> He would come back for um like alumni >> remedial remedial courses.
>> Yeah, he he would come back and be like, "Oh, I'm going to just like teach a little course here or something like that or I'm going to like >> When you were there, >> I lived there. So, I was in that town when he was in college." when you went to the school >> as a as an elementary student, I would visit the college and he was in college there at that time.
>> Okay. How many times did you visit that college?
>> Oh gosh. Uh summer camp was up there.
>> Mhm. When he was going when he was attending the school that was when you were Yes. Yes. And my whole my family worked there.
>> So I would like go there. I'd be in the college library. He was probably in the library with me once.
>> You're sounding Christian.
>> You're sounding You're okay.
>> Um uh anyways, he's emailed me a bunch of times and um we text back and forth.
>> He's emailed you. Wait, let me guess.
You have a personal relationship with him.
>> Yeah, Christian.
>> Well, like I made a email address that's garylargmail.com.
So like because we because of the connection we had >> from before. So I so when I see so it's you know I can send it from wherever.
Mate, are you there?
>> Yeah, man. I keep answering you keep ignoring me. Well, that's okay. It's not intent for ask you a question by chance.
>> I think so. But it's very loud where you are. Can you go somewhere quieter for the question?
>> You know I'm from an island. an island of which is very small of which every plane of which you know of goes by. So it will never stop. Indeed will never.
>> You know what m I wouldn't leave the question to chance. I would I would ask the question that you're supposed to be.
>> Don't leave the question to a curious matter. Truly I am.
>> Just go inside real quick. Go like in a car or a house.
>> Unfortunately, we don't really have suchness here in the sense that I am deep in the woods, deep in the forest.
>> Can you get under a thick tree?
>> You know what? I have already. Now, do tell me, why do you want to stick with the faith? Why don't you want to lose yourself?
>> Um, oh, that's interesting. You think I should be an atheist?
>> No, not really. I'm just asking because you said I'm losing faith in God, the Bible. Why do you want to stick?
>> I hadn't really thought about it. I guess I was just raised Christian. But do you think I should ditch it?
>> No. You should do anything of what you desire because any way is the way. Any reason is the way. So just pick one and just do it truly.
>> Let's do let's do this one instead.
>> Yeah, man. You know Jesus many times.
>> Whoops. I thought that that would like he would go good on you and then be done. Mate, if you want to come back up, go ahead. I was just going to um put a background that would encourage other people to come up instead of you.
Oh, here he is. Okay.
Mate, hey. Uh Jesus is evil. Welcome in.
What's your age and religion?
>> Yeah, man. 23 and none. Everything and anything. I've been called many things, but you know when people say Jesus.
>> Which religion is that?
>> Oh, everything and anything because a religion means just conspiracy of within the all. And I am all >> Christian.
>> To be fair, I've been called Christian before. Yes, indeed.
>> But are do you call yourself a Christian?
>> Well, to be fair, person who calls themselves Christian aren't really Christians because to me, >> Mate, you're an atheist. I'm calling you an atheist.
>> You know, to be an atheist, it means to be the biggest believer, the most utmost believer in >> Yeah. I think you're the most believer in the world. You're an atheist.
>> Beautiful. Beautiful. Now, do tell me.
>> So, now hold on. Is it true that you're an atheist now?
>> You know what? You're putting a label.
You're putting a name upon I. However, I am.
>> Did it work?
>> Well, to be fair with you, I don't really conscribe between properties and features. I just am really >> conscribe.
>> Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed.
>> Mate, I don't understand your point.
Before you said people call you Christian, so that counts. Now people call you an atheist. Does that count?
>> Anything of which you desire shall be.
You must be of the realization of Christ.
>> Well, I'm glad I could have converted you. Take that as a tally, Joel, because he came in and he was really religious and then I told him he was an atheist and he said that counts.
>> I was here for that. So, I think that like you know how we're sharing tallies whenever you I'm up on your live and that happens.
>> Is that tr is that true? Yeah, that's why I am religiously up on not religiously up on your live because >> that's the only reason you hang out here.
>> Yeah, I do it for the t You didn't know that I do for the tallies.
>> I'm a I'm a like I'm a >> I knew I knew that.
>> I'm a real >> [ __ ] T for tallies.
>> You can't say tally slit on TikTok.
They're going to get in trouble. I don't know if people want me to say tally. S L U T.
>> You're a sleuth. Are you finish? Did you finish saying it? You're I'm a real >> s e s l e u t h.
>> Oh, there's an e in it. I was saying sl.
I'm a real tally slushie.
>> I'm a I'm like a real tally [ __ ] >> Man, being a a [ __ ] slushie is a great or a slushy slushy slushy [ __ ] Yeah. If you're someone who's just like I'm >> Oh, aren't you a little slushy [ __ ] >> Yeah. If you're like, "Oh man, I'll go to 7-Eleven anytime. I'm a slushy slut."
That's a great >> Yeah, let's go. Let's go get some Let's go pour slushy all over us. I'm a slushy [ __ ] I'm a bad slushy [ __ ] Yeah, >> but I but I did, just to be clear, I did know Gary Larson. And I did know that that's why you've been hanging out was for the tallies and stuff and that um and other things are a farce. I think the qu the far side far side.
>> Oh, that's funny. That's funny.
>> Um, what don't you know at this point?
Because it sounds like you know everything.
>> Do you I was going to um read some of the new uh things that I wrote to myself in emails to the chat about religion and deconstruction. Here's some ideas that I've been having over the week and I have a few new ones. some that I haven't even told Joel yet.
Um, here's an interesting one.
Is it morally good under Christian worldview to break up with someone via text? Have we talked about this before?
I don't think so.
>> Interesting. No, I don't know.
>> I don't think because it's one of those ones like, you know, you'll you've done um uh hug a woman without consent. It's just not in there. there's no mention of consent or something like that. Um, so it's an interesting thing to point out.
If their god is the um all- knowing arbiter of morality, then uh we have standards for everything except then there's some stuff that's not in there and we have to figure that out for ourselves. So it's it it becomes an interesting uh dilemma for the believer.
But with this one, I what I like about it is God sends us texts. That's how we got the information, right? instead of a personal thing, he's right. It's all via text. It's by Bible or by the Ten Commandments, right? So like he he this is something he does do is communicate without like coming face to face with people and just sending a message. It seems like the morally good thing to do would be to um just like dump someone via text message if we're using them as a standard >> because that's Oh yeah, that's smart.
>> It's kind of fun. Yeah, I got to put my coat back on. I got a little cold again.
I ran out of my coffee.
>> Okay.
>> Like that goes for asking someone out, too. Like you don't want to be very direct with it.
>> You want to leave like just Well, just do it in Instagram posts. You know, people do that. They like post Instagram things that are just like they they're about they're directed at someone, but like everyone else reading is like, "What the [ __ ] is this guy talking about?" But but it's really just like trying to ask ask someone out by >> I sure could get this dick out, you know? It's like for somebody.
>> Yeah. And everyone's like, "Why?" Okay.
>> Publicly posting dick pics on Instagram, but it must be for Is that for me? Yeah.
>> And then the person is like, "I don't even know if this guy exists. This could be AI."
>> Yeah. And And then just put in there like, "If you don't come suck this, I'm putting you in my basement setting you on fire for eternity." Type of thing, >> right?
>> Very godly. very godly. All by text except the um basement part's real and the sucking. Okay, so here's the next question. Here's the next Christian dilemma.
Does hypnosis and brainwashing count?
Now we've uh have a mutual and equal friendship I think now with John Cohen actor up here on the Tik Tok who talks a lot about >> yeah the three of us are really close and and he talks a lot about um you know if belief can be a chose a choice can be chosen is what I was going to say can belief be chosen um so and and I think that there's I understand his point. There's a few things about it that do like mess with me about choosing belief.
>> Well, he he's chosen to believe that you can't choose your beliefs, which is just like a performative contradiction.
>> I love that. That's great. It's Yeah.
It's obviously not true, but he chooses that. Yeah. So, but >> believe it and then he argues it.
>> Yeah. But I think with hypnosis um you do sort of like pick the thing you want to believe and then go get hypnotized into believing it. Now heard him say this before. So like if it's the case that um uh all determinism is true, right? then you were like pre- uh ordained or like if it's a god or you're um just like through the nature of the cosmos just works in this one way to have chosen to be hypnotized to want to buck like a chicken or something like that or to to believe that you're a chicken. Um, but he has said that that doesn't count.
Like even if that's the case, uh, or even if that's not the case, you can like still not choose your belief. But I feel like with hypnosis and even like brainwashing that you can brainwash yourself a little bit. Um, you know, like you could go to the gym every day and hate it, but if you just go, I like this, I like this, I like this, I like this, you can kind of like sort of make yourself like it after a while. Um, I don't know. it it's it might not count.
But the question here is, does hypnosis and brainwashing count to get to heaven?
If the thing that you need to do is believe in God and Jesus Christ as your savior to get to heaven and you don't, but someone like hypnotized me into believing that, do I get to go? Does that count?
>> Oh my goodness. This is an interesting point because like if we could prove, which I'm sure it actually wouldn't be that hard, that what happens in churches is a form of hypnosis, right? Like the repetition, the music, the sucking people.
>> I bet you we could be like, okay, so all these people have been hypnotized into it, so it it better be the way.
>> I don't know if hypnosis would be the right word, but I mean, there's Yeah.
You know, like >> you you get what's brainwashing.
>> Brainwash. Yeah. What is hypnosis if not a type of brainwashing?
>> Super strong brainwashing. And there's um there's other words for it too. And people start saying it in uh in the chat too. But uh yeah, there's there's words for like um repetitious um Hey, walking welcome. Yeah. Uh it's interesting. Yeah. So, um just something to think about asking a Christian sometime if like does hypnosis and brainwashing count in you becoming uh you getting access to heaven? Like does that make you enough of a Christian because you truly believe uh hey the walking. What's your age in religion?
>> Uh 44 and Roman Catholic.
>> You're you're a little bit distant from your uh microphone.
>> Sorry. Is that any better?
>> I I think so.
>> Oh, there you are. Yeah. Oh, >> sorry about that. Lots of clicking.
>> Yeah, I was popping the bottom. I don't know if that helps. Just let me know if it happens again.
>> Yeah, it sounds pretty. It just sounds like clicking and muffled.
>> Uh, >> if you're turning the volume up, that's going to make me louder. You have to hold the phone close to your Whatever you're clicking doing isn't making any changes to your microphone.
>> Is this Is this better?
>> I I think I can handle that. Yeah.
>> Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Let me know if I need to drop and read. Sorry. No, it's just there's a lot of background noise and stuff happening.
>> Yeah. Yeah. My son just broke something.
I'm just cleaning it up.
>> Um, >> no. The >> Is this Is this a bad time?
>> Let Let me see if I can make this work.
I I I was on the brainwashing. It It religion has to be free will. If you're brainwashed, then I I don't see how that could be I don't see how you'd be saved if you're just been brainwashed because that you didn't really choose. So, I would say no. So if you get hypnotized, you're you could be someone who believes in God, believe Jesus died for your sins and then still not go to heaven.
>> Well, I mean, are we suggesting that someone could be hypnotized for like years at a time?
Like, how would this work?
>> Well, like what? Like someone gets hypnotized and then they they really believe it and they're hypnotized for a whole day and they die.
they don't get to go even though they they as genuinely as they could believed or do you think it's not genuine?
>> It's an interesting hypothetical. I mean again you to you know to choose a faith should be an act of free will. So my my inclination would be no, but I'd also I'd probably need to ask somebody to to make sure. I mean, >> what if it's someone like me who just doesn't believe?
>> Um, but I'm like, "Wow, I just can't be convinced by this stuff. The Bible's full of fantasy. It has talking donkeys.
There's no way I can believe this." But, um, I but I know that I'm getting the death penalty tomorrow uh on death row.
So, I'm going to have somebody hypnotize me so that I'll believe when it happens.
So, I made the effort to to try, but I don't like have a genuine belief. It's like an intrusive belief.
>> Does that count?
>> I mean, I wouldn't I mean, not really because I mean, you you you willingly went into it knowing that you were just being that you're going to be have your mind worked, you know, essentially against your will because I mean, you don't actually believe. So, I wouldn't say no. I would say no. In that in that scenario, I couldn't see how that would be.
>> Interesting. So, weird, right? You're choosing to You're like, I don't believe. I'm not convinced by it, but I'm going to choose to be believe in a sense. I'm going to choose to have somebody uh hypnotize me, so I have to believe. And you're saying that wouldn't get him to heaven. What if he did wasn't making that choice? What if he was uh like there was a hypnotist there. He's like, "Hey, let's have some fun. Just like hypnotize me. Do to do whatever you want." and the guy hypnotizes him to believe in Jesus. So he genuinely believes in Jesus at this point of no fault of his own and then he dies. Would that make a difference?
I have no I being brutally honest. It's a really it's a it's an interesting question and I mean it's ultimately up to God's judgment. I I'd have to chew on it some more. I'm not trying to be evasive. I just I just think it's pretty obscure hypothetical.
>> No, it's not a really like wellthoughtout thing. I emailed myself in the middle of the night. I was like, would that count? And if if hypnosis counts, then brainwashing would probably count. And and that is kind of weird.
Like it's it's just kind of a strange thing. But if hypnosis doesn't, brainwashing shouldn't. And if what they're doing, like when you see, you know, um uh man, if you could like mute or something while while I'm talking, it's just super loud. Sounds terrible.
If like when we see I saw this video, I somebody sent me this. Maybe Benny sent something this like um uh they were training this young girl to speak in tongues. It was like say haba like do this kind of stuff and like that's the spirit and do stuff and like they were always training her and she like wasn't really doing it and then she eventually did it and everyone's like yay good that's it. And so like they're training her, right? Like it is this like indoctrination type of like teaching them to think that it's working even if it wasn't really the Holy Spirit happening. Like as like say the Holy Spirit's real but that case wasn't the kid thinks it was do they get to go in you know it it becomes just a really interesting um dilemma for like where belief comes from and which beliefs count to God. Um but we can talk about something else if you want to talk about how Jesus is evil.
Yeah, I I've heard a lot of people say that Jesus is false or that you shouldn't follow it. It doesn't make sense. But I' I've got to admit Jesus being evil, that's a new one on me. I'm kind of curious where you're going with that.
>> Yeah. In the story, the it says that like Jesus uh comes here and helps a bunch of people out. Uh some some more than others. Um little little bit selective there with his uh with his powers. Um, and then he leaves and then he's in heaven and uh still working on the on the world for the rest of time.
But here in the world, we see something that I don't know if I can say on Tik Tok. Uh, so instead of murder, I'll say burger and instead of self murder, the blank aside one, I'll say French fries.
So we see a combination burger and fries. And um, uh, that just means murder, suicide, but we're not allowed to say that together, right? Uh I don't think that if uh Jesus were interacting in this world that we would see any of those. And so if Jesus story is true and he's allowing those play out, I think it's really problematic. I think that that's a thing where he's now involved in in a way where he could have stopped things that he doesn't and that's evil, >> right? So this is it am I correct in saying this is kind of a variant of you know bad things happening that God should have prevented if he was a just and loving God. Is that where you're where this is coming from?
>> Yeah, with the burger and fries scenario.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it all comes down I mean, I'm sure you run into this, you know, it if God really wants uh things to run exactly in a specific way, he definitely has the power to do that.
The question is, how do you do that and allow free will at the same time? And the answer is you can't.
>> Who?
>> You can allow free will.
>> Who's free will?
Yeah, you can allow people to have free will and then and by extension be have the option to do evil or you can, you know, essentially make human beings your slaves and order them what to do, what not.
>> But the walk in this particular scenario, the like if the guy is going to burger and fries his wife and kids and then do himself with the fries, then Jesus could just reorder it and have him do himself first. Take just that guy's free will. It's going to be gone anyways. He's going to be dead. you're not you don't have free will when you're dead. The guy's going to go to hell, right? So it doesn't matter, >> right?
>> So all all it would do is protect the the two people who their free will is to stay alive.
>> Okay?
>> So their free will stays intact. The guy whose free will was going to be gone anyways is gone anyways.
>> Okay? So there's no like in fact this one. So in this the scenario where you let him do it, the guy, the wife, and the kid all lose their free will because they're all dead.
The guy goes to heaven and we don't know about the wife and kid. They either go to heaven or hell. So they have free will in heaven, I assume, or they don't have it in hell.
>> But if you saying the smurderer is going to heaven.
>> No, no, no. That he goes to hell. But the I'm saying the wife and the kid, we don't know if they go to heaven or hell.
We don't we don't that's un we don't know like in this scenario their beliefs >> right >> if they go to heaven do like do they have free will in heaven still >> is in your view >> free well free will I mean you're if you're going to heaven then you're just living in communion with the father so you know with with you know with god so I mean I don't exactly know how free will works in that scenario you're just >> so maybe they don't so either way so they either don't have free will or they do um but they have less less than they did uh when they were like a human. So, but the scenario where he just takes the free will of the guy, they keep their free will to live and and learn about God and do all this stuff and that guy was going to lose it anyways and go to hell anyways. So, it doesn't really matter. So, if uh Jesus really loved us, it it'd be um in his best interest, I think, to protect our free will and protect us from those scenarios.
>> Okay. Well, whenever I've thought about this, I I've kind of asked myself an important question, and if I feel like I'm dodging, just let me know. But I asked myself, um, you know, if we're going to go down this line of thinking, then I would ask, okay, so what other things would we say God should prevent from happening? Should God, like if along those same lines, should God prevent every burglary? Uh, should God prevent every beating?
>> No. Uh, should God prevent every grape?
>> No.
>> Okay. So, >> not not because of not because of this.
I mean, obviously, yeah, I think he should, but like not because of this scenario. So, >> yeah, I was going to say alternatively, yes to all those questions, but >> Oh, obviously he should, but that's not what this scenario provides a specific dilemma.
>> Well, that that's what I'm talking about it. That's what I'm talking about.
>> But it does. It feels like you're dodging it, though. You told me to tell you.
>> Well, let me let me try let me try this feeling. Yeah, let me try and tie this together. So, you're saying that in this scenario, God should intervene, take away free will and and and and send the guy directly to hell to prevent the murder. You're saying that that would be if a god existed, you know, if Jesus existed, then that would be a just action. Correct.
>> Yeah. And I'm just And what I'm saying is would you additionally say all those other scenarios should be prevented by, you know, like God should God directly intervene in all of those scenarios?
>> For for different reasons, I would, but it's unrelated to this specific thing.
Well, you see this this is my point is that it seems like the only way that you think that Jesus is is is good or God is good is if he prevents things that you decide >> feels like you're dodging again. You told you told me to tell you when it feels like you're dodging. It seems like you're avoiding the the specific scenario.
>> Yeah, but the it does beg a bigger question like why are we deciding what needs to be prevented?
>> Should or should not do? You told me to tell you when you're dodging so that you could keep doing it. Or did you want me to tell you so that you would not do it?
>> Okay. Well, what I'm saying is that I don't see that as proof that Jesus is evil. No, I don't see that as proof that Jesus is evil. That to answer your question directly, and my reasoning is is that it gets into this slippery slope of what we think God should and shouldn't do. And I think that's really presumptuous.
>> Sure. Okay. So, um I guess like I would just like uh let's you know try it with uh you know me first. So if I'm like in the room and I'm a psychic and I know that um and again if you could mute because whatever you're doing over there is just so loud like crazy loud. Um, and I'm I'm in the room and like uh my uh friend, not Joel, it's different different friend. Uh who has a wife and kid is about to do it and I know psychically or he tells me I'm going to um burger them and then French fries myself. Um then I would go uh no, don't do that. Stop. And um and I would uh encourage him not to to do that. But if I couldn't like stop him from doing it, I think I the good thing to do would be to uh like protect the wife and kids.
Get them out of the house, get them to safety, and let him just do the French fries.
Like if I could if I could make that happen, that would be the loving thing to do to protect them in that scenario.
So, um just because it it just feels like you're dodging it again. just like you can say like, "Well, with God, we're not allowed to think about this." Or what's the I don't understand what your point was.
>> Well, I mean, I I what I'm doing is I'm rejecting the notion that just because God doesn't stop what you deem to be a just and loving action that he doesn't exist or that he's evil. I'm just simply rejecting that premise.
>> Okay. Well, let's check them all out.
So, first of all, do you think it would be a just and loving action to protect the wife and child from being burgered?
>> Oh, sure. Yes.
>> Okay. Okay. So that part we agree on.
>> Would it be just and loving for God to do it?
>> That would presume to know his his plan for the world and for those those people that so that that's where the >> plan might be for them to get murdered.
So he >> loves every every Yeah. Well, if you're a Christian, you believe >> that's where I get tangled up with like he loves them and planned for them to be murdered by their dad and husband.
That's that's confusing. That seems evil. That's what that kind of brings us back to that. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And and I get that. Um but again, it it it it all boils down to this is if if God allows free will, then he is allowing evil to occur in the world. I don't know the reason his reasoning behind that, but that was his decision and and it's evident in the way that people act. So >> it has to be has to be good, right?
Because God's good. Yeah.
>> Whatever the reason and what >> somehow for for the greater good somehow.
>> Yeah. For for and what what God is calling us to do as Christians is saying, "Hey, um you got you know you people are perfectly capable of making heaven on earth. You just have to make a choice. Are you going to actually do it?
Are you going to pick up your shovel, your hammer, your duct tape, and >> he wants us to Yeah, I see.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Because >> so he so he has a plan for like a wife and daughter to be murdered and he wants us to mess his plan up and and like uh undo it kind of.
>> Well, I mean it's all in how you choose, you know, to look at it. You know, now what you're describing is obviously a terri, you know, horrifically bad and that's true. But again, if we >> Well, I thought it was obvious, but then you were kind of saying that that was for the best that that happened or >> Well, well, here's the thing is that when you have free will and people choose to do evil, evil things do result. And how are humans supposed to learn uh if if you know they don't have consequences to their actions?
>> And so, you think it's better that he lets the guy have ultimate free will than to protect the wife and child?
Well, again, you know, I mean, I'm a parent and I can tell you that there are some things that, yes, you definitely have to do on behalf of your children because, you know, they're not ready for it. There are other times where you have to allow them the opportunity to to to stumble, fall, and fail at something and learn from it.
>> I wonder how how that responds to my question. Can you maybe elaborate in a way that makes me understand how that was connected to my question?
Well, again, the let's let's go back to the scenario you're painting where this guy, you know, you know, his his wife and daughter.
>> Do you do you remember what the question was?
>> Uh, okay. Well, remind me then. I'm not getting I'm getting off.
>> Oh, okay. Sorry. Yeah, I thought you were trying to It seemed like you were tangenting tangentially running off, so I just want to make sure that we were focused up here. The question is like do you think it's worth it for the guy the murdery guy to have his free will >> like is it worth it to not protect the wife and child in order to retain that guy's free will that's more important >> again you know it's either you're comfortable with the idea that God's plan isn't going to make entirely sense to you or you're not if you choose like if you choose to say >> what question are you answering I'm not saying can we figure out God I'm saying you, the walking guy or whatever your name is, the walk >> walking dad.
>> Do you think that that guy's free will is more important than the life of the wife and child?
>> I mean, either you have again like do I think it's more important?
>> Yeah. Like which which one has more value in your opinion?
>> The the murderer's free will is more valuable than the life of the wife and child and their free will.
I could see the argument for saying that the the uh their their lives are more valuable. Why does God allow something like that? I don't know, man. I just don't. And it sounds like you're not comfortable with a God that allows that.
And I get that, but I I don't >> I think it's crazy to be comfortable with a God that allows that. Yeah, I think I think that that is the dilemma here for sure. Like, yeah, God allows murder suicides for no reason. He could stop him, but he really wants he really wants to protect the free will of the guy who's about to go to hell. What's the reason for free will? What's the value of it?
>> Because he wants us to freely choose to either live with him or live apart from him. That's choice.
>> So the guy who's about to do that, what's his choice? What did he choose?
>> Hell, right.
>> Chose he chose to do something heinous.
Yes.
>> Yeah. So he's going to go to hell either way. At this point, it's known he's going to go to hell.
The choice is made now. You just let him do that and protect these people.
>> Daddy.
>> Yeah, that's the way it is, dude.
>> That's the That's it. That's the way it is. Okay.
>> I mean, that that's I mean, that's the way it is, man. I mean, again, it's evil evil will happen. And if if Here's what I would say.
>> I feel like you're missing the math, though. No, I mean what we're what you're saying is by this standard I reject the idea that God is good or or that you know Jesus >> because the guy's will was to go to hell >> and God is going yes I'll allow that and I'm also going to protect these people.
The choice was already made. He knows the future. He can change that and protect them. But instead, he goes, "I see that you've made your choice for hell, and I'm also going to just let you kill off these people first, right? I'm not going to protect them, and then you go to hell." Nothing changed with the guy. The value of free will in the guy according to you was so that he could freely choose God or not. That that's still there. He didn't. Once we don't choose God, done. Go to hell. And then protect the people who do >> or or haven't decided yet. Yeah. What I can here here here's what I can tell you. Would you would you like to hear what the Christian perspective is on the scenario you're painting? This is what the Christian perspective is. Christians look at this scenario and say, "Gosh, that was terrible. You know, that was awful. And we're sorry that it happened." And you know what? If we had done a better job, if we had done a better job making this a better world, evangelizing and if we had reached out to this person before they did this, if we if we had had a better, stronger community that would have promoted, you know, the kind of appreciation of life that would have prevented this, we take it upon ourselves. We It is our job, it is our calling to make heaven on earth.
And every time something evil happens, we say, you know what, there's work to do. Let's get to work. God has given us the tools to make heaven on earth. We just simply haven't built the project yet. So, let's get to work. Let's do better.
>> As atheists, we do that, too. We go, there's no God. We've failed our community. We should have um like done more mental health stuff. For sure.
Correct. It doesn't respond to God's role. If he had done better, then the same thing would have happened to the guy either way, but the the wife and daughter would have been protected. We would never see burger French fries.
>> Yeah. Well, it sounds like >> you keep saying Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
over me while I'm talking. And it sounds like you're not listening to me.
>> I'm acknowledging what you're saying. I assure you.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
See if I have a better guest here.
There's some few a few other guests I'm going to try to talk to that have less background noise. That was [ __ ] irritating.
But yeah, >> that was that.
>> It eventually ends in well, yeah, that's just how it is, right? That that is kind of what his thing was. Well, >> oh well.
>> Yeah. God God allows things that he doesn't have to. Yeah. That that's the that's the problem. So he goes, "You've you've listed the problem.
>> This is why it doesn't make sense." Fair enough.
>> Nailed it. Okay. Um Eternal, welcome in.
What's your age in religion?
Eternal accidental request. Maybe Eternal. Yeah, they seem to be a followback.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, the only other person is Mate. I I would have talked to that guy longer if his background noise wasn't so terrible, but it was starting to get really irritating. And me having power in this world, I can uh not listen to that.
>> Shut it down.
God wouldn't let there be background noise if uh and of course >> evil >> this thing of like uh that he was trying to when he was trying to dodge it earlier. This thing of like well you want all evils to be gone is always just like the [ __ ] funniest argument Christians are like oh you just want the world to be great what yeah that's why we're trying to get rid of Christianity.
Have you not been paying attention to the like >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Oh, you you think it'd be so great without all the murders and cancers, you lunatics. It's such a like weird stance to take.
>> You'd really like that, wouldn't you?
>> Oh, wouldn't it be Oh, you think it'd be nice if God helped us? Oh, ho ho.
Yeah, that's your thing.
>> So, let me guess. God should stop all the raping. Yes, every single one of them. Of course. What? Why? Why not?
What are you talking about? Oh, you think it'd be so great if everyone stopped getting raped. Oh, yeah. Right.
>> Oh, what a world. What a world that would be.
>> I don't understand like how they think that that's a valuable argument in any way. It's so like Yeah.
>> Oh, you want it to be heaven on earth.
Well, yeah. Yeah. You want it to you want heaven, don't you?
>> Heaven in heaven.
>> Why would you want that?
>> And then sometimes sometimes I go, well, you know, it was like that. That is how it originally was. Just do that again.
Bring it back to that.
>> Yeah.
>> They're like, "Yeah, it used to be great. Now you're right. It's terrible.
God doesn't do anything.
>> Take Adam and Eve, shove them in hell.
Let them burn forever getting curb stomped by the devil and let us have a go.
>> Let us have a go at Eden.
>> Yeah. Let's try that out.
>> I'm not that into fruit. I'd be fine without that."
>> Yeah.
>> You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. And I I'm I'm going to be dubious of any snake. I I would just be and I know some people love those uh you know are they reptiles or amphibians?
>> Reptiles.
>> People love those reptiles or amphibians.
>> I feel like if a snake handed me a fruit I would be like uh no. Like I'm not touching that.
>> No thanks.
>> I have a reptile. Reptiles are really dirty. Like no thank you. Even if it still had arms and stuff I'd be like >> Yeah.
So, I would do fine there. I know Eve was all like into reptile tentacle [ __ ] but I was I wouldn't be. I'd be fine.
I'd be like, "Do you have any rice?
>> I'll have some rice and like kale, maybe."
>> Or like, "How what's the to what's the tofu like?" I I like a kale when it's cooked, right?
>> Good. Good. Who knows what that is like, but yeah, >> cooked kale.
>> Cooked right? How would I don't know people have told me that about I have had a half decent lentil but anyway >> lentil's fine in Indian food that's the right way to do it Dr. me wait is that name short for Dr. Mezzo, are you me from the future? Do I get a doctorate?
Did I Did I earn it?
>> I I guess so.
>> Huh?
What's the future like?
>> The future is the future. It's right here, right now.
>> This is the present, you [ __ ] idiot.
>> Yes.
>> What a [ __ ] >> Some doctor I turn out to be. Um, well, as a time doctor, uh, are you a Christian, too?
>> Yes, I would say I would say that I'm a Christian.
>> Future me turns into a Christian.
Terrible. You did a bad job, Joel, keeping me atheist.
>> I am so sorry.
>> Let's see if we can tally me back to the future. Look, Dr. Me, Jesus is evil.
>> In what way?
>> Most ways.
Okay. If you can give me example, but before you even give me those examples, I would like us to define what you mean by evil.
>> Like really bad. Maybe even really really bad.
>> Yeah. I want you to define what you mean by bad evil. Like that's >> Sure. trying to give you like like he like kills innocent people and he allows uh awful things to happen when he could prevent them. He's just like detrimental to humanity like people get hurt and stuff like that from like what his actions have laid out. Um he like is really unjust when he punishes people like just a terrible judge. So that kind of stuff.
>> Okay. So you speaking from a place of when people pain when people are alive and all those stuffs. So that's what you consider as evil.
>> Yeah. That's like the normal like someone who does that kind of stuff is just normally what we refer to as evil.
Or the other thing is like um uh just even if they don't do it but like imagine this somebody who is like um uh like Hitler's son. I don't know if you had sons but like let's say Hitler's son and you were asking Hitler's son. like, "Hey, your dad was a um do you know that your dad was a Nazi?" And he was like, "Yes, and I agree with everything he did." I would be like, "You're evil, too." And I know I could see him like he's giving to charity right now, but he agrees with Hitler. Bad, right? Do you agree with that?
>> Can you please repeat that one more time for me?
>> So, imagine Hitler had a son. I don't know if he had a son or not, but let's say you're talking to Hitler's son, right?
>> Yeah.
>> And you say, "Hey, do you know that your dad is Hitler?" And he says, "Yes, and I agree with everything my dad did." Then we would go, "Whoa, the son's bad, too."
Right?
>> I mean, it depends on how I want to interpret. Do you think someone could agree with everything Hitler did >> and be good?
>> It depends on what you mean by agree.
That's what I'm basically saying.
>> I I condone everything he did. I think >> everything that you would do.
>> Yeah. The son is saying, >> sorry, the son is saying, "Hey, I didn't do it, but everything he did was great.
I think everything he did was really perfect. He nailed it. Just great work."
>> Yeah. If somebody says that it means that's something that they can do, I I'll attach them to the evil person. So >> I didn't understand the sentence you just said. Do you think that Hitler's son who agrees with everything Hitler did is evil or good?
>> I would say that when they agree in that sense and they say they accept it and everything, it means that it is something that is within them that they can do. And if they can do that themselves, then they are evil.
>> Joel, are you understanding what he's saying? There there's a bit of a language barrier, but is maybe you're just saying too many words.
>> I I >> Is it good to agree with Hitler?
>> The question the question is it it has it have a little bit of context. If I say I agree on some things and >> so maybe maybe it's good to agree with uh everything Hitler did in the Holocaust. Okay. Okay. Well, that's an interesting take for a Christian. I would probably push back on that and say that if somebody says that they think everything Hitler did was great, I would think that person was bad.
I would think they they have the same the same way of viewing the world as Hitler. Now, it depends on if I want >> which was >> No, I don't. The thing is I do not use good and bad when I speak. Oh, you don't you don't think Hitler was bad?
>> I do not use I do not subscribe to those words. It doesn't move me.
>> Okay. So, Hitler you would say Hitler wasn't bad.
>> I would say he was a person that did this actions and that is how I I will leave it at that stage. Now, if it is good or is bad, that is my human that is me wanting to equate it to something that will make me every time that I look at it, it puts me in a place that I feel a certain type of emotion. So I don't know I create things from a good or a right standpoint.
>> Yeah. So you would say you would say as a Christian I can't say if Hitler was good or bad.
>> Good or bad is not the action. Good or bad is a sound to describe the action. I have told you that I have seen the action and that is the action. That is what happened. If I say good or bad that is me trying to want to translate what is happening. That is me wanting to put a certain type of language where >> so were the actions that Hitler did good? Now like you are still using good again when you use the word good >> what do you what word do you use when you're referring to like moral things >> now that is an agreement between human beings but it changed the form of what has >> what what do you use >> instead of good and bad >> there is no word to describe reality when you describe reality you change it original form into another form you cannot define reality >> what an absolute waste of time it must ever be to have a conversation with you about anything.
>> Yeah, that is what I'm trying to let you know that when we try to >> Yeah, I get I'm I'm getting that for sure.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> Okay. Well, bye.
>> Yep. Yep. Stay blessed.
>> You are you going to >> Oh, I was about to take off myself.
There's like a X or something. Yeah.
Okay.
>> Yeah. Here we ask guests to get themselves off. Thank you.
>> Mhm. We're not going to do it for you like those other uh >> those Christian live streams.
>> They're going to do it for you without your consent, frankly.
>> Right.
>> I know. I've watched them. It works.
>> Yeah.
But um that was a confusing conversation and it must be hard to uh to believe like that guy and just not know like even for yourself what good and bad mean. You know what I mean? Well, it seems like a dodge and I you know that's that's real debate talk and I know I'm not that type but >> feels like he's offiscating and he's dodging and he'sating and that's a that's blloicating.
>> It'sating and he was definitely Bavarian.
>> It's a blunder. It's a blunder that he's doing that and he'sating and he's and it's a dodge.
>> Junice, what's your age and religion?
>> Oh, hey brother. I am 19 and I am a Christian.
Why are you a Christian when Jesus is evil? That's confusing.
>> Well, it's interesting you say Jesus is evil. I mean, uh, we read the Gospels and I don't know how you get the message of Jesus evil and you're bringing up the point of like Hitler and having Hitler's son and if Hitler's son agreed with all that Hitler did, then he's evil, right?
And um so are you trying to refer like to Old Testament judgment where God would just like wipe out a people or like what are you referring to when you say >> like uh so you understand what I was saying where like if Hitler's child agreed with him, we would say the child was bad too, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Even if the child was like currently donating to charity and being really nice, we'd be like he still has evil views, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So um yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, when God in the Old Testament, who's not Jesus, >> we know that Jesus isn't God. Yeah, I get that. But like, >> uh, is saying like, "Hey, let's have these people raped as a punishment."
>> And Jesus, you know, reads the scriptures and goes, "Yep, >> that's my dad. I agree with everything he did."
>> Uh, that seems problematic for him, doesn't it?
>> Right. So I would say um you have to be careful in seeing the things that people would do and then saying yeah God approved of that. For example like I heard one story right um >> Junice I'm specifically talking about something God did.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. He told his people to go and to take the woman and to kill these people. Right. But if you listen to the stories, man, it's like for example, there were I don't know which city exactly, but there was this one city who were doing child sacrifices. They were sacrificing children on altars and and we read that God had given them 400 years to repent to turn from their ways.
>> We already talked about that earlier today. That's not a true story. Those people weren't doing child sacrifices.
They were killed for a different reason.
But I'm talking about Babylon. The Babylonians are the ones who God said, "Because of all your actions," which sure, their actions were bad, I'm going to have somebody come kill all the men, slam the babies against rocks, and then rape the women. Do you think >> slam the babies against rocks? Is that scriptural? Is that in scripture?
>> Yeah, they they dash the babies. That means you grab them by the ankles and swing them down so their head hits the ground and they die. That's what that means.
And so, um, and then the women get raped. So, do you think there's anything that a group of people could do that would make them deserving of rape >> where rape is an appropriate punishment?
>> Well, Jesus sure did. He agreed with his dad who initiated and set up this whole this whole rape. In the new in the new testament Jesus speaks about how like um for example he said um you know I tell you even if you look at a woman with lustful thoughts you have already committed adultery in your heart right or another where he says you know marriage >> and you become deserving of you become deserving of death for that. Yeah.
>> If you if you think of adultery you deserve to die. Yeah.
>> No that's the thing. Well, >> yeah. Biblically, that's what that means.
>> Yeah. Sin calls for death. I mean, let's take it in the >> but that's why I brought up this other verse because um obviously I don't think thinking of adultery makes you deserving of death. I know that's Christian talk.
It's crazy, but um I I get that that's what you guys think. But then what about rape? What makes you deserving of like uh being raped as a form of punishment?
Well, I don't think that God would ever like rape somebody, right? Let's say that.
>> No, he has he has someone else to do it.
He has he gets these warriors and he stirs them up.
>> He told them to conquer them. Yes. And and the law >> he he sends them in to rape.
>> Here's the thing. The law was given through Moses, but truth and grace was given through Jesus Christ. Even in the Old Testament, we >> Jesus agreed with this part, though.
That's what that's the problem.
I know you want to talk about other stuff and I keep bringing it back to this. This is this part is the problem.
All this other stuff is really nice, right? There's some there's some good stuff Jesus did. That was cool when he gave those people fish >> and taught them how to uh and and remember when like >> uh someone was sinking, Peter or Thomas was sinking and he like he like lifeguard saved them like Jesus Baywatch pulled him up out of the water. That was cool.
But this particular verse isn't cool.
The one where God says he's going to have people raped as punishment and and he's going to have their houses plundered, which means stealing is part of the punishment, which is un uncchristian, right? And Jesus agrees with this. The guy who helped Baywatch the dude, guy who fed fish to people, that was really nice. But just like Hitler's son, agrees with the atrocities.
Well, could you show me the verse when where God specifically says, "Go and rape these people." Or where Jesus says, "Yeah, I agree. Go and rape these people." Like, if you're making those claims, could you show me where it says in the Bible those >> Yeah, let me just look on um the uh badbiblehub.com website >> and uh we're going to go to It's not Bible Hub, we go to BadBibleHub. And let's scroll down here just real quick.
The verse of the day is when Israel was staying at Shittim, the people began to have sexual relations with the pe women of Moab. Hot verse from Numbers 25:1.
That's your Tuesday, May 5th verse of the day passages. And we're scrolling down to about halfway through where >> God is describing the punishments he is issuing out to Babylon.
>> Okay.
>> It says here in the in the words of Yahweh himself, "Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword." Now, it sounds like his punishment for them is that he's uh going to send in an army to kill them with swords, right?
>> Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So, that's that's God having them killed by swords.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. Okay. I I agree. That's how I read that. The next verse says, "Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes." So, he says, "Whoever's caught will fall by the sword." That's part of the punishment.
>> Their infants dashed to pieces before their eyes. That's part of the punishment. They'll obviously have to do that part before the sorting so that they can be alive to see their infants being uh um you know bloodied up and stuff.
>> And then the last sentence here says their houses will be plundered >> and their wives raped. So there's the stealing and raping part.
>> And the next one it says I am stirring up the means to do this. God's the one uh who's like making this all happen. So there we have Yahweh uh issuing out this this uh awful awful unjust evil punishment.
Um the I think this one is um something Joel wrote here. In a book littered with inconsistencies, God is consistently pure evil. I think that was was yours.
>> Yeah, it it sounds because it's true. It sounds like me.
>> I love that. um you'll you'll do those like inconsistently and consistently kind of play on words. You did one earlier today in this live. What was it?
>> Um I don't remember anything I say or write. So it's hard >> I have a hard time with that too.
>> Yeah.
>> Um anyways, so then now Jesus, >> okay, >> tells us to uh that God is the father, >> he says that he's he's good, >> right? He says read the old scriptures.
That's how we learn about God. And he doesn't ever say any of this was was bad. Do you think Jesus disagreed with God?
>> Well, no. Because I believe that they are one in nature and that they share the same goal, right? The same mindset.
>> There we go. Okay. Right. So, so Jesus agreed with this uh unjust punishment, this evil.
>> That's that's that's a man that's a hard scripture. That is a really hard scripture to tackle. You know what I mean? But here's what I >> Sorry, just just to be clear. Um, not for us.
>> For atheists, this is like >> breeze. Like, this is like one of the easiest ones to be like, "Yeah, this just isn't true. God didn't say this.
This is just like a historical person being a lunatic." Super easy for Christians. Yeah. Yeah. This is a tough one for you guys. But the Bible's easier for atheists than Christians, for sure.
>> Okay. Right. Okay. Well, here's what I would say to that. Um, I'm not sure where I read it, but I think it's in one of the Proverbs or even in like Romans, right, where it said that the people had become so corrupt and twisted. Even in Genesis, you read where it says um that the people would no longer hear God's voice and so he gave them up to their evil passions and their evil desires, right?
>> Yes.
>> Um or were you think actually had a desire to be dashed to pieces?
>> What was that?
>> The infants actually wanted to be uh dashed to pieces.
is what you're saying kind of.
>> No. And no, obviously >> you also can't It's just like you can't want to be raped, too. That's just like the words that doesn't make sense.
>> No, of course not. But I mean, how many people do we see in this day and age where it's like, "Oh, well, you kill somebody, you ought to be killed." You know what I mean? Like, >> oh, I don't agree with that being performed even today through people naturally. They want, you know what I mean, >> right? Um, and but that's not what this is. This is this is this is God the all good judge saying that rape is the appropriate punishment in this case.
>> It's a little different than just humans being crazy.
>> Yeah. Um, well, shoot that that's a great question, brother.
And honestly, to be honest with you, I would have to study on that because I'm not very good when it comes to the Old Testament. But I would stand firm in the belief that God doesn't want anybody to be raped. Like if anything, it's because of like >> for example, you you said they will be raped, right? Their wives will be taken and they will be raped and God will allow it to happen, right? But I mean I >> if you don't want people to be raped and you're sending in the mess the most rapey of people to go attack them knowing it's going to happen but you don't want it to happen then don't do it. Don't do it that way.
>> People had the spirit of grace and truth that Jesus came to give then they would not do those things. Right. I mean, even in Exodus, we're taught and uh >> do you mean God wouldn't command rape punishment if he had Jesus? Is that are you talking about God?
>> Well, >> but you said you said that God and Jesus have the same nature. So, even with Jesus's spirit of truth, God commanded rape still.
>> Well, I mean, um >> Jesus should have helped out with that.
>> In Exodus, we're we're told that the people didn't have eyes to hear or or eyes to see or ears to hear. And I believe that that comes through the Holy Spirit. God doesn't have eyes and that's why he made this bad thing. That's interesting. Well, God has a nose. I don't know if it says he has eyes or ears.
>> Joel's kind of the expert on God's body parts. Um >> I'm pretty sure Well, I'm pretty sure it like like he hears like he hears their cries. He sees you know so like we we only know those things as eyes and ears.
That that would be how that would happen. But um whatever it is that makes him hear. It might not be an ear.
>> Yeah. It doesn't go like I don't think it ever goes like and he like moved his he rolled his eyeballs. You know what I mean? Like I don't think it ever says that explicitly, but it does say he like blasted water with his nostrils. So, we know he has a nose.
>> The eyes of God or something. Yeah, the nostril for sure. We know.
>> It might be a giant nose, but then his the way he sees is like through like a patch of skin or something, >> right? And and here >> what >> you know how like early eyes were just like patches of skin >> and you know I don't know >> fully tracking and then you just said something about a patch of skin.
>> I just want you to picture God as like a giant nose >> and then there's nothing else going on.
>> Sure. So yeah.
>> Yeah. He's just a giant nose and then somehow he's seeing through like a patch of skin. Yeah.
>> Uh okay.
And here's the thing. I don't know why God would um right like >> I don't think he would allow for rape.
Honestly, I don't think God would be like, "Oh, go and rape these people."
And maybe it did happen. Um but God works in mysterious ways, man. And it's hard to grasp at all. But here's here's an example. Like you were talking about Hitler, right?
>> Um do you think that >> America and Europe and all these people going to war with Hitler was a good thing in order to stop Hitler?
Um, yeah, probably.
>> What' you say? You said, "Yeah, probably."
>> Yeah, I think so.
>> Well, I I have a really I have a really >> Junice I have a really niche view.
>> I I my view is I don't know for sure because I think that Hitler worked in mysterious ways.
>> Do you think that's a reasonable answer?
Well, I think Hitler was doing evil things and you can't >> I know it seems like Junice. I know it seems like that, >> but what if Hitler was working in mysterious ways? So, we can't tell that his evil actions were actually evil. So, let's say he told some of the uh soldiers to go and rape some of the Jewish people. We don't know that that's bad because he works in mysterious ways, right?
Well, God's plan was never for evil to come into the world.
>> We're talking about Hitler right now.
And like why do you think he's talking about God right now? I know they sound so similar, but this is about Hitler.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. But man, evil is not a thing of God. I mean, >> right, that we're not talking about God.
We're saying try to try to pay attention to what Joel's saying.
>> Okay. Okay. Can you repeat it, Joel? So, so what I was saying was we both like I know you and Mezo agree that Hitler was evil, right? And that was because of what he did and what he commanded people to do, >> right? And so what I'm saying is if if we go well, we can see what he's doing.
We we hear what he did, but if we just say he works in mysterious ways, all of a sudden all of the things that he said and did aren't evil anymore, right?
>> Yeah. And Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Um I'm sorry. Lots going on. Um >> yeah, I know this.
>> Is this a bad time for you?
>> No, no, no. It's not a bad time for me.
It's just um I haven't I'm not very u scriptured in these um >> It's not about scripture, Jun. So what?
>> No, no. Like I mean I don't have a defense very well defense. So it's I'm kind of >> Okay, hold hold on. Yeah, I I just like this is a this there's a few like ideas here that it's kind of I'm doing a parody of what you said. So, >> and I know that it seems like you uh have like you have to think things through a little bit uh before you get them necessarily. So, we can help you do that. So, let's just like do it together. Okay. So, when you look at the actions and commands of Hitler, you say that they are evil, right?
And you can come off mute. You're on mute right now.
>> Oh, my bad. I must have misclicked or something.
>> Yeah, it was just a little mistake.
That's okay. So So when you look at the actions of Hitler, you would say those are evil, right?
>> Yes.
>> And when we look at the actions of God, they're they're similarly evil. But when you look at God, you say, "Well, I'm just going to say this this line. Uh the Lord works in mysterious ways." All of a sudden, I don't know that these actions are evil anymore. Do you follow that?
>> Yes, I understand what you're saying.
>> Right. So, if I apply that to Hitler and I see the actions of Hitler, but I say, well, if I said that Hitler's works in mysterious ways, >> Mhm.
>> then we don't know if what Hitler did was wrong. Right.
>> Right. Yes. So, so you don't want to do that because you believe what Hitler did was wrong, but you want to do it for God because you don't want to believe what God did was wrong.
>> Okay? So, when I say God works in mysterious ways, what I'm referring to is that it's hard for us to come to an understanding with what God does because we see repercussions or like judgment, for example. Like, judgment sucks, man.
like who if you're being judged, judgment sucks. That's what it is. It's judgment punishment. So, it's hard to comprehend. And it's hard for us who are like emotional creatures and and can be so small compared to God's knowledge to truly grasp it all. So, when I'm saying God works in mysterious ways, that's what I'm referring to. Like, it's it's hard to grasp it and it is hard to understand it, right? But I believe that God has laid down a foundation of his laws. He's laid down a found of his laws that we should abide in so that no evil would come about. But man's failure continuously one of the laws sometimes you get raped for uh for not following the laws. But all Joel is saying is that if all you're gonna say is, "Well, there's this confusing mystery that we just can't understand, and that's your out for excusing this obviously horrible verse, this obviously horrible like uh atrocity that God set up, then you can do that for everything.
Now you can just do it with Hitler." And that's not the like world that you really live in. That's not where where you sit in reality. You can look at what Hitler did and go, "This sucks.
This is [ __ ] There's no mystery here.
This was a bad move on Hitler's part."
And you can do that with God, too. You can look at this verse and go, "This sucks." And Jesus didn't, but we can.
>> It's kind of like all you have to do is remove the person or being that's doing the thing that's being done. Okay?
>> So, if Hitler commanded rape as punishment for or whatever he thought was wrong, we would agree that that is evil. So when God does it, we can also agree that it's evil. It doesn't matter who does it.
Commanding rape as punishment or for any reason and any kind of rape is always evil. It's very simple.
>> Yeah. Um yes, rape is evil. I I agree with that. Um, and it is hard.
>> And the and the killing the children part, like that stuff's bad, too.
>> Sure. If you have to throw that in, sure, that's evil, too. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I wanted to bring this up to you, Junice, just real quick um before we uh take one last guest maybe before I have to get to work here. But, um you also just mentioned briefly this thing. You were talking about the Amalachites and uh we already talked about them a bit, but I should do it because we read this verse every day.
It's time for our daily reading of the Amalachite story. And uh this is one that's a little bit different than that one. But what we have here, of course, is in 1st Samuel 15 where thus says the Lord of Hosts, I will punish the Amalachites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and attack Amalecch and utterly destroy all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.
So, um, this is the one that you were talking about for a second where you were like, "Yeah, but it's crazy because for 400 years they kept doing uh child sacrifices." That isn't true, Junas.
There's nowhere in the Bible that it says the Amalachites were doing child sacrifices. That's something that apologists and church leaders tell the public. They tell young Christians this so that they'll keep coming to church. It's not true. It's a lie. It doesn't say that anywhere in the Bible that God is like waiting for them, giving them time to stop doing sacrifices. They weren't doing sacrifices. There's no evidence of that. And it does say what it's for. In that verse I just read, it said for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. It says what the punishment is for and the or what the crime is and what the punishment is.
The crime was 400 years ago you attacked us. The punishment is we're killing the infants and donkeys today 400 years later. That's unjust. That's an unfair punishment to the donkeys, the babies, and quite frankly the rest of the Amalachites.
>> Right? And I would say that the bigger picture is that um you know Jesus says my sheep hear my voice. And I would say that for the Malachites to be going against Israel would be going against God, right? Like that's what I would say to that. And um >> did they know that?
>> And so if you're if you're going against God, then you're obviously siding with things of evil. And I know our concepts of evil are different and things of that nature, but you're choosing the opposite side. So, like I know it's not written down, but you can only imagine the things that they would be practicing.
You know what I mean? Or they can only imagine it because there's no text in here that says what they were doing. The text doesn't say anything about them being bad. And let's say they were Junice, just for a second, pretend.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> The verse before said those dirty Amalachites, they were sacrificing all their babies.
So God says, "Let's help them. Let's go kill their infants for them."
>> Well, once again, >> how does that justify infanticide?
Here's what um so I I do Bible studies and someone um a brother called Dale, he's been a Christian for about 20 years and he would say that you know he says it would be really hard for me to wrap my head around this concept of God telling um you know his people to go and slay every single body, right? And and maybe this is helpful, maybe it's not.
But he would say, um, but I came to understand that when there's evil in the world, you got to kill it completely, lest it grow again. And like, you know what I'm saying? Like, so many people have come to an understanding like, oh, we just got to like restart, restart, and just have a clean slate so that it wouldn't continue anymore. And so, I believe that God sent them out to go and kill everyone that that it would just cease to exist and no longer. So the reason that it's okay to kill the Amalachite infants, the baby infants, was because afterwards in that area there was no more evil.
Oh, but [ __ ] there still is today.
>> The thing is, Jun, >> it didn't work.
>> But Junice, the thing is that like I I have this friend named Kevin, and I I really like Kevin. Well, Mezo hasn't met him, but he he's a sweetheart. He's really really kind. Um, one time like I was I was at work and I work midnights and my cat was having some serious issues. Kevin got up in the middle of the night, went and took my cat to an emergency vet just like out of the goodness of his heart. He's a really sweet guy.
>> That's nice.
>> But his dad is incredibly abusive. He's an angry, vile man who's been to jail seven times. He would be like the epitome of evil. Now, do you think Kevin needs to be snuffed out because his dad is evil?
>> Remember Remember that he took my cat to the vet?
>> Yes, I know. I know. Um I believe that God um God is the source of all goodness. I don't think we can get absolutely right or wrong without God.
>> Oh, this is an interesting question though. I love that you're saying that.
But like, do you think that Kevin has the evil of his father in him and needs to be snuffed out in some sort of weird tribal tribal collective punishment sort of way just because his dad is evil?
>> Well, if Kevin continued in the traditions of his father, then I would believe yes, because then he would inherit all that evil from his father.
Kevin brought obviously brought the cat to the vet.
>> You forgot the You missed the part about the vet. He He's a real sweetheart.
Middle of the night. Goodness of his heart.
>> Actually, people are worried in chat. I like Kevin. I think Kevin's really nice.
It's his dad. I don't like I mean I don't like I'm not as close to Kevin as Joel is and Joel's not as close to Kevin as he is to be. Like it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. That's so true.
>> Yeah. We're super super super super super super super good friends. But Kevin's a really nice guy and and I bet he I bet he'd even take my cat to the vet the vet even though he doesn't like know me as well. He's like a really nice guy.
>> Yeah. Well, Ma was having issues with his cat the other day and Kevin texted and goes needs a ride. Yeah. And he's in a different country, but he said I'll fly in. He said he'd fly.
>> His dad is a piece of [ __ ] >> Right. But look, here's the thing. You can see that Kevin is not taken up after his dad obviously because if his dad is evil and Kevin's doing these good things then he's branched off from his father.
>> Okay. So no longer walking in the steps of its father.
>> I hear you. So in the Bible story these are suckling infants. These are babies that are still breastfeeding.
>> Do you think that we know for sure whether or not they're going to follow in the footsteps of their parents? Well, were the was the main crime of their father sucking on tits >> like gnawing on nipples? I don't think that that was what was listed in the text.
>> No, but you also have to understand that tradition was heavy back then. You know what I mean? Like you walk in the family like that's your blood.
>> Heavy. It was heavy enough tradition that you'd be willing to say, >> uh, my name is Junice. I'm a Christian and I think those infants deserved the death penalty.
No. And and that's a hard I don't know why we're arguing about it. Yeah. Yeah.
If if if you don't think that, then you're on our side. Yeah. I think that's crazy.
>> And and even in like um Well, I don't believe that those babies went to hell.
>> You know what I mean? Like like >> neither do we. Yeah. We don't >> exactly like I don't believe those babies went to hell. So even if these ba like you got to look at the picture bigger picture, too.
>> Babies can't go to hell.
>> Yeah. Like I would I would also say that babies don't go to hell. So even if they were to be That's like what debunks the entire religion of Christianity.
Absolutely. You don't have to >> because you don't have to form a belief that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior in order to go to heaven.
>> That's the whole point of Christianity.
But if babies don't have that belief and we can kill them and they go to heaven, then that just disproves that that's necessary. It shows that God could just let everyone to heaven and that we could all just we should all be going around stabbing babies so that they go to heaven instead of maybe becoming atheists later. Atheism is growing.
You're welcome everybody. I'm getting restricted for that. Hold on.
>> Well, what what would that one be for?
What would that I wonder what that one would be for >> you said that fast Hitler too.
>> Wait, can I can I just tackle that real quick?
>> Maybe they're just like this this person is breaking everyone's brains or something.
>> It could be. Um I'll bring a few other people in, but yeah, go ahead, Junice.
What do you think?
>> Okay, I'll just I'll just finish off. So first of all um in in first John we read you know and the condemnation was this that the light of the world came into the world but people loved their darkness and they denied the light right. Yeah.
>> So the condemnation was that people were unwilling to come to God.
>> Um and babies like obviously babies don't have a choice to sin. They don't make a conscious decision to sin. So obviously they're going to go to heaven even though they never knew Christ because the condemnation was that they knew Christ and they didn't accept Christ. That was the condemnation. And yeah, okay.
>> Yeah, we shouldn't allow Yeah. God shouldn't allow babies. He was able to sentence these Hey, Howard, are you with us?
>> Oh, that's an accident. He was able to sentence babies to death and they get to go to heaven. He should sentence >> every single baby to death so everyone could go to heaven. He took those babies free will. They didn't have a chance to live their life and they got to go to heaven. He should just do that to everybody. Christianity's wrecked. It's a great It's a great move.
>> He didn't give them time to be Kevin's.
>> Well, life life is a gift. Life life is a gift. Life is opportunity to live. And God wants to give everyone an opportunity to live. And he desires that everyone would come to him.
>> Well, not of course. and and he loves people so much that he continues to give them time to repent that they might be able to be with God eternally and not be separated from him. That's his goal, right? And and um I mean that's what it's about. He creates us and we live in >> just to to take away from this Junice just to think about cuz when I ask you like very straightforwardly like do >> do you do you think it was good that this happened? You're like no. So the whole all of all of the argumenting and trying to like justify stuff you're you're trying to do even though you don't think it was. So you're not trying to convince us that baby murder is good.
You're trying to convince yourself of it in order to keep believing in this the lies from this cult. Consider for a moment >> that this book was written by men, >> human men who either believed in God or didn't really but were just like talking about it to scare the nearby nations.
Maybe they really believed.
>> Either way, suddenly every single verse in the Bible falls into focus. All of this stuff, these horrors that are these mysteries that uh his ways are higher, we just can't quite it's too hard to figure out. everything falls into focus.
It makes perfect sense. It's exactly what we would expect to see if some guys wrote this uh a couple thousand years ago, right?
>> If if a god, an all good, allloving, all knowing God in really helped inspire the words kill the children, rape the women, now it's a mystery. Now it's confusing because of how stupid that is. It's only because yeah, the all good, all loving God said to kill children. Now it's a mystery. It wasn't a mystery until you said God is real and good. If it makes sense without the God and once you add the God ingredient, everything falls into confusion, >> it's probably because it's not true.
>> Um well, >> and then next time you're on a live, don't like talk over someone's awesome like final like when they're doing like a final speech and you're like, "Okay, okay." Like, can you imagine if like Jerry Springer was doing his last thoughts and the guests were just like still fighting in the background?
Actually, it kind of would have been pretty cool probably for that part. So, I'll leave that in. But, um, thanks so much, Junice. I have to get to work.
Okay. Uh, I have to read these couple super chats. Um, we got uh somebody uh Oh, this was a Hasl class sent 20 Mezo gift memberships and uh just insane. And then Amir sent one. So, uh, you know, kind of getting kind of getting mocked here. Sorry. Like I don't know if that's intentional. Like, uh, ask class, did you do that to mock a mirror or is it the other way around? I don't know. Um, I'm just kidding. Thank you both so much. Thanks for gifting that. And then here's an interesting one. Boogie the cat sent $2 to say, "You need mods. I'm leaving because of our slurs." Now, I don't know if they meant there's too many r slurs in the text or if they were using that to say that they are r slurs and they were kind of using the slur but >> euthi either way I think it's inappropriate.
>> Yeah. I don't know if um I don't I don't know like I I feel like that word is auto like you can't say boobs on YouTube. I feel like YouTube should auto delete that word. No.
>> Yeah. the word slur >> specifically R. If there's an R in front of it, >> someone said Republican.
>> Um, Amir, don't send anymore. He said anymore. Don't stop doing that. Stop. I was just joking. Um, yeah. Hey, uh, Boogie the Cat, you're not here anymore, so I don't have to respond to you, but um, I don't have any control over the chat. Uh, if you want to be a mod, you'd have to come back. And so if you come back, let me know and we'll we'll mod you up and then you can uh get rid of all the um the the slurs that you want.
That'd be great. Um okay, Joel, I think we did it. Did we do a show? When are you going live?
>> Yeah, I'm going live right now. I'm going to do a crossover. Yeah. So, I'm going to like leave >> and I'll wait a second so I can Yeah.
raid over on the tubes if you want and then raid me over and uh and we'll be doing a few hours on my end too.
>> Um okay, [ __ ] that's exciting. I wish I we didn't have to work.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you do that on purpose? Like you schedule your lives?
>> Wow.
>> Thought so. Um All right. So Joel's gonna set that up and we'll we'll be uh right over there. Hold on. Well, um sorry. Did you were you calling up to talk about this?
>> Uh I was, but it sounds like you're just finishing up, aren't you?
>> Yeah, you can just do it real quick. Are you like a Christian or something?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah, I'm a Christian.
>> Yeah, we just we were figuring out that that uh Jesus is evil, but um let me uh I got to go turn off my my YouTube and get some >> set it up. So h you what?
>> Oh, uh I don't know. Sometimes he's evil.
Oh, sorry. I thought that was Well talking. Yeah. Well, you you think that Jesus is evil, too, right? Like as a Christian, you still just follow it or what?
>> Uh, no. I don't I don't see that. Uh, well, yeah, like it's just it's like the wrong category. It doesn't make sense to call Jesus evil.
>> Why? Why not?
>> Well, because there's limitation in uh in being evil.
>> Like what?
like okay if you don't you don't have absolute knowing you can't know you can't know what any of your actions are going to do so why would you ever attempt anything wrong essentially in that case that would be evil then if you you have every single reason to take your chances on what is right rather than what is wrong but you instead choose to do the wrong thing that's evil >> that's when you could have done something different but the thing you did was evil I'm saying there's a difference between absolutely knowing and having limited knowledge and that creates a different category.
>> Okay.
>> I agree that knowing everything and not knowing everything are different. So far we're on the same page.
>> Absolutely. And that's are would you call those different categories of being?
>> No. Just two different descriptions.
I don't think knowing something is a category of being. I think that's an insane thing to say.
>> Well, because I mean, think about how it changes. You know, if you take an action, you are forever uncertain. Same as me. We're limited.
>> If you take an action, you're uncertain.
>> Yes. We we can have no certainty about what is going to come next because we're limited.
>> Okay.
>> Do you see how that's different for somebody that is known, that knows, that knows exactly what's going to happen next? Then they So yeah, we wouldn't know and then they would know. Yeah.
>> Yes. Yes. So now think about >> Jesus is evil.
>> Huh?
>> And Jesus is evil.
>> Those are two kind of different thoughts that are unrelated. But yeah, >> he can't be. He can't be, right? Because we understand that there is a point whenever you have to use destruction >> uh constructively, but only because things die.
>> Do you think Jesus is God?
>> Absolutely. Do you think that Jesus existed before the universe?
>> Yes.
>> So there was a perfect existence, no bad at all, all good.
>> Always has been.
>> Is the universe all good?
>> Uh, is the universe all good?
Everything in the universe all good >> including Hitler.
>> Okay. Because now you're asking I think a very different question. I think >> yes. This is a different question than the first one. Question one was was every was all of existence all good before the invention of the universe?
You said yes. Now I'm just asking is the universe all good?
I was. So whenever you whenever you said has all good has it always been all good or something >> is the universe all good?
>> Is the universe all good?
It was something before that.
>> Right now is the entirety of all existence good?
>> Right now is the entirety of all existence good?
Yes. Yes. I Yes. And like like >> Jeffrey Epstein good. Uh Hitler good.
You're on board with all this kind of stuff.
>> Every like rape happening this moment good in your view.
>> Well that's the trouble of what what you're saying like is everything >> that's the trouble of your view. I don't have that view. I think that stuff's bad. I >> I'm saying of how you're using the word how you're using that's why I was like oh this is a different context of why I would >> Yeah. I would say the entirety of all existence is not good. Some of it's bad.
That's how I would answer that.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Just to not sound insane, you know, like even if I was just like scared people, I think I was nervous.
>> I think we're completely on the same page now. Before you had asked if good essentially existed eternally, and I was like, yes, of course, good has always existed eternally.
>> Good will exist, but not all good doesn't exist eternally.
All goodness for all of existence for God maybe but all of existence went from before the universe when it was all good and then once the universe existed to good and bad some good some bad right >> yes I think I >> okay the all powerful all- knowing omnisient future knowledge being was about to make the universe and Everything is perfect, all good right now. And my creation will make some good and some bad. And they did it anyways.
They made the creation knowing that the rapes and the Hitlers and the and the Epstein was going to happen.
>> That's possible.
>> They could have they could have kept it 100% good. The perfect being could have kept everything perfect, but the perfect being created flaw.
>> Well, evil.
>> We couldn't have been good. we couldn't have had the opportunity to be good.
>> Uh, go ahead and I I have to uh step out to turn off the YouTube, but I can still hear you, so you can respond.
>> Yeah, I was just saying that you we we wouldn't have had the opportunity to be good. You're essentially saying that it'd be better if life as we know it didn't exist.
There's a music for what I'm talking about right now.
He's saying that it's better that we shouldn't have even existed.
How in the world could we know life as we know it without the ability to fall?
We couldn't
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