Reading and Discussing Novellas, Essay Collections, and Short Stories

[00:00:00]Wait, you guys were talking without me?

[00:00:03]>> I'm so sorry. I I didn't know how to tell you, so I figured on a, you know, public space would [laughter and gasps] be the best way to do it.

[00:00:20]Welcome to Book Talk, [music] etc., a podcast bound to grow your TBR. I'm Tina from TBR, etc. And I'm Hannah from Handpicked Books. This is a conversational podcast about books and more from two Midwest new readers who are easily distracted by new releases.

[00:00:35]And today we are talking about nollas and [music] short stories. If you enjoy listening, we'd love for you to follow us on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. And if you have a quick minute, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or sharing us on social media. It truly helps us connect with other book lovers.

[00:00:53]If you love finding your next great read, you are in the right place. To help our YouTube community grow, the best thing you can do is to like this video and [music] subscribe to our channel if you haven't already. Also, be sure to leave us a comment and let us know what nollas you love or what [music] short story collections have been working for you. We love reading through your comments and it helps the algorithm push our content out to more people. You can also share this video with a fellow reader or anyone who would enjoy our conversations. Thank you so much for your help and now let's get into the show. Hi Hannah. Good morning, >> Tina. Good morning. We are here bright and early. I'm doing okay. You know, I have a really busy day today, but I'm excited to spend a little bit >> as always, but I'm excited to spend a little bit of that with you.

[00:01:41]>> Likewise. I am very happy as well. I I sort of feel guilty because in my day job, most of my work is, how do I say this?

[00:01:50]In my day job, the summers are lighter and so I sort of feel guilty. I'm like, you know, we've got some things on the schedule, but certainly me, it's, you know, September through May where it's really crazy. So, I'm like, okay, I got us. I'm going to hold down the fort for us. We'll get through it. But I'm very happy to record as well. I'm also happy that you suggested this episode because I tend to not prioritize nollas and short story collections, and I found two spoiler that are really good, and I'm >> Oh my gosh. Yay. Oh, I'm so excited.

[00:02:22]>> I know. I have one great one and one that I have some mixed feelings about, but overall I don't think that I have any that I'm like I wouldn't recommend this today.

[00:02:32]>> Okay, that is good. And we'll talk a little bit too about novella short stories, why they work, why people might want to read them if they haven't given them a shot previously.

[00:02:40]>> But before we do all of that, Hannah, do you know what day it is?

[00:02:45]>> I bet you don't.

[00:02:46]>> July 16th.

[00:02:48]>> It is. I don't know. But it's also the day that we pick our physical TBR, our tackling the TBR topic >> because we got to start reading it. So, I'm going to do that. No, you [laughter] didn't. I'm going to do that live on air. So, let me pull up our spinner. All right. On my screen here, I have this big old spinner wheel. We've got So, again, these topics are ones that our patrons have submitted. We have 41 responses, but a lot of people wrote multiple ones in their little, you know, response. So, anyway, there's a lot on here. So, I And again, what we're doing is we are going to pick a topic. And for the month of August, these are books that we are going to read. We're going to do an episode centered around this.

[00:03:32]Last time we did book of the month books that we owned, Hannah and I are choosing books that we already own to really make sure that we're getting through our physical shelves. We invite you to join in with us and read whatever it is that you have, whether you own them or borrow them or whatever. But with that, let's go ahead and spin the wheel. Oh my god, I'm very nervous.

[00:03:50]>> You get so nervous and excited every time.

[00:03:53]>> So sweaty every time. All right, so we're going to spin the wheel officially. Let's see what we get here.

[00:03:58]As always, I'm very nervous. Very sweaty. Um, we are going to be reading for Tackling the TBR shelf, >> a book that intimidates me.

[00:04:09]Okay, >> what do we think about this? Do we have capacity in the summer? We're down.

[00:04:14]Okay, we're down. You know what's funny?

[00:04:15]I actually was just coming up with a list of books that intimidate me.

[00:04:19]Literally yesterday, I manifested this, I feel. And I was like, I don't know what it is, but these books so intimidate me. There's a variety of reasons. It could be page length. It could be content. It could be whatever.

[00:04:32]But you know what? This is actually great. Especially if it's books that we own because we bought them or kept them for a reason >> and we're probably, you know, one of the reasons might be we're intimidated.

[00:04:43]>> Yeah. And I feel like there could be many different reasons why a book can intimidate you. Whether it's content, whether it's length, whether it's a series, whe you know, there are so many different reasons why a book could be intimidating, especially for you personally as a reader. Something that might be intimidating for you might not be intimidating for someone else. Like sci-fi is intimidating to me. As someone who only reads fantasy and sci-fi, that's not intimidating at all. So, >> yes, that's a good reframe.

[00:05:11]>> Fun.

[00:05:12]>> Yeah, >> cuz in my head I'm like, well, I'm going to read an a thousandpage book, >> but I'm like, how am I going to fit that in? That doesn't necessarily mean it's a long book. It could be. Okay. Okay.

[00:05:24]Okay. A book that intimidates me. So, we invite you listeners to join along with us in the month of August to read a book from your shelves or a book on your TBR that intimidates you.

[00:05:33]>> Yeah.

[00:05:34]>> Right. I'm excited.

[00:05:35]>> That's going to be a good book talk topic, too. Like, >> I think so.

[00:05:38]>> Really thinking about that as a reader and what intimidates you personally in your reading life.

[00:05:44]>> Yeah.

[00:05:44]>> And why and how we overcame it or didn't. Okay, I'm locking back in because I could immediately, of course, my brain is like, "Awesome. Let's go look at every book you own and figure out what you're going to read. But that's not what we're doing today.

[00:05:59]Today, we're just picking >> on this reading project.

[00:06:02]>> Exactly. I know. So, that will >> we're picking it now because Hannah and I have to read about I don't know a week to two weeks in advance for the episode.

[00:06:10]So, we're going to start reading now for an episode that you guys will hear in August. But, let's move on from that. I will transition into our loving lately.

[00:06:19]And I'm so delighted to share this with you. And actually one of our patrons mentioned it in our Discord and I was like um of course because this is something that I have been loving too.

[00:06:30]>> It is a summer reading campaign created by Melanated Reader and she is a creator that I followed for so long. She gets she gives great book recommendations.

[00:06:42]Last year she got me to read Dominion by Addie Kitchens which was in my top 10 and oh here we go. So anyway, what she's trying to do is to get 1 million people to commit to reading at least one book by a black author this summer. Her Instagram is melanated reader, but they also have an Instagram for this challenge which is @1mill blackbooks.

[00:07:04]There's a Google form where you can officially sign up and she's just a lovely person. I actually messaged her at 7:05 this morning like a true nightmare and [laughter] I let her know that I was going to mention this on our podcast and I wanted to know how they are counting the 1 million. Is it story graph? There's also a hashtag which is one mill blackbooks and so I was like I wonder how they're doing it. So she did send me a voice note so I'm just going to play it now and see what we have to say. who all is following the 1 million blacks page on threads, Instagram, Facebook, um, and signed up through the Google form that I have. So, I'm counting all of those a part of the 1 million. So, we almost up 9,000, which is >> yay.

[00:07:49]>> Mind blowing. Slow. That means we're about to hit 10K. And I I'm not gonna be able to control myself.

[00:07:56]>> All right. So, that was Melan Reader.

[00:07:57]She sent me a voice note. I was. So, okay. So, what she's doing, it sounds like, is taking this 1 million and looking at where people are commenting on the Google form. There's also a story graph. There's also the hashtag, and she's sort of aggregating it um all in one place, which I think, you know, honestly, whether or not you get to the 1 million, I think the spirit is there.

[00:08:19]I think it's so fun. And it's really been uh picking up because Shondaanda Rimes, the Shondaanda Rimes chimed in.

[00:08:27]She shared a video with her TBR tagged at 1m black books and I was like this is really awesome and I'm very happy that she started this campaign. So we will link to everything in our show notes the Google form. We'll use the hashtag and a video where you can follow along there.

[00:08:45]Also be sure to follow the account 1 Mill blackbooks. Right now they're at about 4,900. I would love to help them get to over 5,000 by the time this episode airs. So, that's what I've been loving lately is following along with Melanated Reader and her campaign at 1 mil black books.

[00:09:03]>> H I love Melanated Reader and this is such an exciting campaign and so much fun that it's already getting traction and readers and that's a great one.

[00:09:13]Thank you for bringing that.

[00:09:15]>> Yes. And I think it goes through September so we've got some time. Yeah.

[00:09:18]Um, >> and shout out to Jane who mentioned it in our discord group because I was like, ah, she mentioned it as a loving lately and I was like, same here. So, I was happy that uh she reminded me to bring it.

[00:09:32]>> Oh, love that. My loving lately is something that I'm curious, Tina, if you are familiar with, and that is my Sula pouch. Have you ever heard of Sula?

[00:09:46]>> Can you tip it upside? Is it a p Oh, show me the top. Yes, pouch. So, okay.

[00:09:51]So, I'll I'll tell you a little bit more about it. So, it is a, >> you know, handheld sized pouch for >> creatives, whether you're a journaler or I'm actually going to use this for my annotating. I've seen people use it for sewing projects or needle work that they're doing. It also Sula also has a studio bag that's a little bit bigger. It has even more pockets and this pouch fits in that bag.

[00:10:22]I do happen to have both. So, I will link both. But I'm specifically talking about the pouch today because >> I have been using this for annotating or just my compact travelsized creative bag. I can put a little sketchbook in here too with some markers if I want to do I've been doing like some kind of abstract art. I I am not an artist at all, but just something to do with my hands if I have to sit in a waiting room or, you know, sit in mostly waiting rooms. I I do spend a decent amount of time in waiting rooms for kids appointments and my own appointments and things like that. And so I just wanted something to take with me. It has a ton of pouches. I can fit I have, you know, like all 10 of my markers and highlighters in the front pouch here.

[00:11:18]And then in the inside, I've got some washi tape. I've got my Post-it notes.

[00:11:24]I've got a little hand sanitizer. I've got my lip gloss. Got my Tombbo pens.

[00:11:30]And then it just zips right up. And you could put this in a purse. I put it in my Sula bag, which has even more pockets and pouches for everything that I carry.

[00:11:40]And it's just really, really wellmade.

[00:11:43]The material is really nice. It's canvas, but it's also soft and it's machine washable, which is also great, especially because when you're carrying, you know, artist supplies and things like that, sometimes things can get marked up. And I think that it's great to be able to wash this. I usually also carry a snack in here. So, sometimes crumbs can happen. Again, love that I can love that I can wash it. And the website says that inside the pouch, oh, 20 pockets. So, it does have 20 for the exact number. I was like, I know there's an exact number and it's a lot.

[00:12:22]It's 20 pockets and it can fit an A5 notebook as well. So, if you want to actually carry your journal in here, you can. This one my my A5.

[00:12:33]>> Yeah, there you go. You're hoping A5 it can fit that in here. I don't know if it could with a case but >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:42]>> Right. I think it probably would have to be naked.

[00:12:44]>> She gets a little bulky with the case, but that's okay.

[00:12:46]>> She Exactly. Um and it's sized to fit within larger bags, as I mentioned, or carry as a standalone stationary pouch.

[00:12:54]It is organization that moves with you and I absolutely love it. Love the bag, too. I will link I will link both. I think that they are 100% worth the price. And if you are a creative individual who just needs some organization on the go, I highly recommend this. That is the Sula Studio Pouch. Uh, I am going, you have such good recommendations for things that are in the creative space, things that are in the journaling or whatnot. Yes, this is really cool. I thought I had heard of this. I may have seen it at like a stationary store, but I didn't really like lock in on what it was doing.

[00:13:35]>> That sounds fabulous. And next time we see each other in person, bring the pouch. I'm going to bring my cousin, and I want to see >> I want to get my hands on it.

[00:13:46]>> Oh, yeah. to see if your if your journal fits inside as promised. Yes, we'll have to test that out. I do think that I'm going to become a part of the Havanichi uh club >> next year.

[00:13:58]>> Yes, same with Jonathan >> because I I'm past the I'm past the April because they do that techno version where you can start in the middle of the year, but I'm already past that point, too. Correct. I'm like, I'll start I'll start in January.

[00:14:09]>> Jonathan's the same way. He literally will look at my planner and be like like he's just like really mad that he did not get one. Like I've been like showing and singing its praises. But now I'm like okay I started in April cuz I that's when I like locked in on it and I'm like now the question is my planner only goes through March of 26. So now I'm like >> uh >> do I start again in April >> version again or >> what am I going to do?

[00:14:38]>> Stay tuned. I know everyone's on the edge of their seat. [laughter] >> I'm on the edge of my seat. I want to know.

[00:14:43]>> All right. Well, we will figure that out when the time comes. But for now, I am going to tell you about my latest read.

[00:14:50]And breaking tradition, I'm actually going to share my latest read, the book that I literally just finished yesterday. It is Keep Them Close by David Ellis. And I'm excited because he is an author I love. This is also a book that was on my summer bonanza list. So, anytime we cross those off, it feels extra satisfying.

[00:15:09]This one is about siblings Allison and Luke, and their bond is tested when Allison's husband Finley is murdered, uncovering secrets, affairs, betrayals, and everything else that threatens their strong bond. Now, this story has a lot of layers. David Ellis is a judge in Chicago, and he is a lawyer and has this legal background. And so I always know I'm going to get a solid legal suspense thriller story when I pick him up. And I think you get that. This one also has a bit of a procedural element to it as well because again many many things are happening but sort of the biggest one is that Finley Allison's husband is dead and there is a detective that's trying to put the pieces together to figure out who did it to figure out whatever. And what's cool about this is that it's not just a straightforward mystery. You're not like, "Okay, who killed Finley the entire time?" Certainly, that's a part of it, but the book pulls back about seven or eight months to see what happened right before this person got murdered. And you're sitting there and figuring out, okay, you're you're getting introduced to all these different people. Is it the sister? Is it their son? Is it this woman that Luke likes? Was it Luke himself? Was it a bad guy, you know, that targeted him? What's happening here? And I love that it peels the layers back and gives you all of these red herrings. And the reason why I think he does this so well is because none of the reveals felt silly. None of it was like this random, you know, thing that he's dropping in on the reader that makes no sense at all. It's a real captive list of characters that had me wondering, okay, how is this going to wrap up the entire time? That was the biggest question I was asking was, all right, he's introducing a lot here. Make it make sense. How is this going to come together? And I knew for sure that it would, and indeed it did. There are many layers here. Again, I was never sure who to trust. I was never sure if I liked the characters that I was reading, but I didn't care. You know, they're kind of these complex people that do maybe morally ambiguous things. Now, one thing I will say that may turn some readers off, but was fine for me is that Luke is a baseball coach. And there's a fair amount of baseball talk in this, oddly.

[00:17:24]I was like, "Okay, he's a coach at a university here in Illinois." And then he was like talking about his career.

[00:17:30]That was fine and it does make sense, but I was like, "Why do we keep going back to baseball? There are disagreements. There are old grudges."

[00:17:38]And this is truly a sibling story. You know how siblings can be. you know, I don't know, but I have read [laughter] I've read and I feel like, you know, they have all of these issues with each other, but at the end of the day, they are still ride or die for each other.

[00:17:52]This definitely kept me entertained. I did it fully on audio. That's the only format I had. Definitely recommend it, especially if you want to pick up a book that's just satisfying, that will hold your attention, and that will wa have you walking away being like, "Yep, I enjoyed that." This one I gave four stars and I do recommend it. It is Keep Them Close by David Ellis.

[00:18:12]How many books have you read by David Ellis now?

[00:18:15]>> This is only my second actually. Okay.

[00:18:19]>> I loved his book, Look Closer. That was a five-star fabulous read. That one is for fall. Read that in the fall.

[00:18:27]>> Okay, >> this one you could read in the summer because of the baseball tie in. Um he also has one more that's super popular um that's on my TBR that I know I will like. I just need to get to it. Um, and that one is called The Best Lies. Um, so I'm really excited for that. But look closer, five stars.

[00:18:44]>> Always so fun. Always so fun to have a new author to get into, try, keep reading from. I would say having a five star and four star book so far is good.

[00:18:58]>> Oh, it's great. Especially >> book. Yeah, >> it does. It definitely does. Especially for thriller authors, they can be so hit or miss. So, if I have had two, you know, ones that I really enjoyed, I'm like, "All right, we're running into auto read author territory here."

[00:19:14]>> Oo, I love that feeling. I also am hoping that this becomes an auto readad author for me. This is a debut that I am bringing and also one from my summer bonanza and that is Everything to the Sea by Alicia Apano which I did talk about very briefly last week when we mentioned our top five books of the year so far because this was on that list for me and I am so excited to tell you more about it today. This story is about Jane, who is home for one last summer before college graduation, and she is just trying to save some cash before she leaves her island for good. She barely remembers Kenji at first, but he is hard to forget once she does. To him, she is still Janie, always with her nose in a sketchbook, and she tells herself it's just a summer fling, nothing that will get in the way of becoming the architect of the continent. But then a tsunami sweeps both of their families out to sea and grief ends up pulling them apart and away from each other. Kenji stays in order to rebuild home and Jane ends up running away. She goes to California with her best friend. Seven years and an entire ocean apart, they are separated from one another until they run into each other on another coast and the story goes from there. My only regret in putting this on my summer bonanza list is that I didn't put it higher on the list. I think it was number five or so, but I ended up loving this book so much.

[00:20:52]I am such a sucker for an immersive love story that is filled with heartbreak and everything to the sea delivered exactly that. It was really well written, really poetic, but not overly lyrical or anything like that. I would say that this is definitely square and upmarket fiction. It's not too literary or anything like that, but it is very well written, very beautiful pros, and it was just such a moving and unique story from beginning to end. I really appreciated how the author used this tsunami, this natural disaster, and wo it into the plot and used it as a comparison to the struggles and unpredictability of family and love and grief and how we connect to all of those things. I think that that added a great layer of depth to the story and made the plot feel really original. I was really rooting for Jane and Kenji both when they were together and apart. And I love that in a love story when you are rooting for them individually as characters as well.

[00:22:04]And their journey just kept me really invested. I just I loved them so much.

[00:22:10]The themes of coming of age and navigating grief also made this story really relatable, I think, for not just me, but I think just to a wider audience in general. There was so much emotion woven into these pages. I loved their characters. I loved their relationships and how everything was shaped by everything that they'd endured together.

[00:22:32]So, yeah, I I loved this read from beginning to end. I thought it was really original and I just miss these characters so much already.

[00:22:40]That was Everything to the Sea by Alicia Apano.

[00:22:44]>> I am so glad that worked for you. I know Renee loved that as well. And I feel like that's high praise coming from the both of you. Um I'm going to have to squeeze it in at some point. I feel like that is one that is going to be kind of I haven't heard anybody else talk about it other than the two of you.

[00:23:02]>> Yeah, I haven't really either. I actually Renee messaged me. We were talking about it a little bit back and forth after I had brought it to the show last week and she was like, "Yeah, I I don't really see a ton of people talking about this and it makes me sad. I want to like do the work and do what we can to really push this book out to readers." And I was like, "Yeah, me too." And then I said, >> you know, Substack though and podcasts are known to be the two biggest outlets for pushing book sales. And so I was like, you get Substack. You got the pod.

[00:23:37]We can do this. We've got this. So it >> everybody go out and read it.

[00:23:42]>> Wait, you guys were talking without me?

[00:23:46]>> I'm so sorry. I I didn't know how to tell you, so I figured on a, you know, public space would be the best way to do it. [laughter] >> Fabulous. Okay, so for this episode, we decided to do nollas, short stories, short story collections. I actually came with one of each. I have a novella and I have a short story. You have two novellas.

[00:24:07]>> I have two novellas. I almost brought a short story collection and I am in the middle of one, but I didn't finish it quite in time to bring it. So >> maybe you'll get to hear about that another time.

[00:24:18]>> Okay. So my first question, what is a novella? Please educate us.

[00:24:23]>> Okay. So I think that people have different opinions on this. My personal opinion is that anything that is under 200 pages could qualify as a nolla. I would say a book that's like 180 or so pages would be a longer one.

[00:24:43]But yeah, I would say anything under 200 pages. Do you have do you have an opinion on this or thoughts? I am somebody who quite frankly is just starting my novella journey. When I hear nolla, I'm like, I don't want it.

[00:24:59]Because here's why. Sure. [laughter] >> I like character development. And I have this bias to where I'm like, there's not that many pages. How am I going to get a fully fleshed out character in a few pages? I have two examples here that do a great job with characters. So, I'm I've been proven wrong. Um, in terms of page length, I do tend to read longer books. I am not one that shies away from it. Even for me like a 350 is not a long book to me. That's like an average book, right? But which I know is like not necessarily true. Um so I would say though I 200 feels good. 200 feels right. Now I will admit my book that I my novella that I brought is 208 pages.

[00:25:41]So hopefully you all allow allow for that. But yeah, right around that 200 page.

[00:25:45]>> We'll allow it. We'll allow it.

[00:25:47]>> Perfect.

[00:25:47]>> It's still a shorty. It's still small.

[00:25:49]>> It's still small. It's still a shorty.

[00:25:51]It's still one that I listen to in one sitting because that one I did on audio and I'll, you know, obviously tell you in a minute.

[00:25:57]>> Yeah. I think that one thing that I think that I've talked about before that I have found in both short stories and in nollas is that I do think that in order for it to be really well done, I think it could and does require more skill from an author to be able to deliver totally >> that character depth, that good story and all of those feelings and thoughts and you know reflections. that come with those things in such a short amount of time. I think that that takes I think it takes a lot of skill.

[00:26:35]>> Oh, completely. It totally is. I a skill to be able to be concise with your thoughts, but not so concise where the reader's like, why should I get invested in this? Why should I care about this?

[00:26:46]>> Yes.

[00:26:47]>> I don't want to say it's harder, but I think it's definitely up there. It's definitely its own art. And what I like about and what I'm like coming to realize that I like about shorter stories or nollas is that especially in like a short story collection, if you like what you've read, like you like this short story by an author, great. If they've got other longer books, it's like a good way to get a taste for who they are as a writer without committing to a fulllength book. So I found, okay, you know what, I can get down with it for that reason. Have you ever had that experience where you've read a short story by an author and then like sought out their longer books?

[00:27:24]>> I don't think so. I do remember that there was a horror collection that I read last year and of course now I can't remember the title of it, but I really liked it. And I went to look up the author's other books and I don't think they had a whole lot.

[00:27:46]>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's okay if you can't remember the title. It's sort of a leading question from on my end because I indeed have a great example of that in the book that I am bringing for my short story collection. Um it's it's I'll just tell you it's Nat Cassid's I Know a Place. And in this, what's so interesting about it? Now, this is his first short story collection, but the feature story is his novella, Rest Stop, which I own separately >> and I read that first before this came out and I was like, "Oh my gosh." So I would say plug for rest stop or you know if you can get your hands on that as a standalone if you read it and you like that writing I think it's indicative of how he writes his longer fiction which is what made me think of it in the first place because I was like oh my gosh if you want to read rest stop you'll get you'll you'll know for sure if that is your vibe or not. Uh, it's so funny you mentioned Nat Cassidy. My husband is kind of getting back into reading right now, which is very exciting. And he sent me a list the other day of some books.

[00:28:46]He was like, "Hey, like don't feel like you have to go out and buy these, but if you have any of these on your shelf, let me know because I'm interested." And one of them was Tell the Wolves. Tell Tell the Wolves I'm home.

[00:28:57]>> Tell the Wolves I'm home by Nat Cassidy.

[00:28:59]I love it. Great entry point.

[00:29:01]>> Yeah. So, that's exciting. I when he gave me that list, I was like, "Oh, Tina would be so excited."

[00:29:07]>> I'm happy to chat. Nat Cass, >> also >> I remembered the short story collection.

[00:29:13]It was At Home with the Horrors by Sammy Scott. That made me excited to read more from that author because this is one of my favorite horror short story collections I've ever read. I think I enjoyed most of the stories in this collection because, you know, with short story collections, you're you're probably not going to love every single story, but it's great when you enjoy most of them or all of them. This has happened to me just a couple of times.

[00:29:42]And >> yeah, >> yeah, I was I was really excited. And then I'm remembering another one now, Human Sacrifices by Maria Fernanda Empero.

[00:29:53]That is also one of the best again horror short story collection books that I have ever read and I would love to read more from that author as well.

[00:30:03]>> Good. I Gosh, I love that. And I feel like this is probably the uh Natt Cassides is probably the first short story collection I've read if memory serves.

[00:30:13]>> So, it's like again a new adventure for me.

[00:30:17]>> Well, I'm excited for you to continue on the journey. Okay. You may have an answer to this and you may not. I don't know if I 100% do, but it's something that I've been thinking about since we decided to do this episode, which is what can a nolla or a short story do that perhaps a full-length novel can't?

[00:30:38]And I think that this is an interesting question because I I have not figured out an answer to it yet. But I do think that there is an answer out there and it's something that I have been thinking about because there is a reason why we reach for these stories >> and why sometimes these stories can even make us think more about certain things than a full- length novel. Maybe maybe that's what it is for me. I do think that perhaps sometimes these shorter novels allow you more time to think rather than giving you this really long story that shows you its themes in more depth but doesn't really allow as much maybe reflection time. I'm not sure. I'm curious what you think about that.

[00:31:25]>> Yeah, I didn't go that direction with the question. I was thinking the thing thinking about the thing that I can do with a novella or short story is finish it in one sitting truly and there's something to that there's this sense of satisfaction of getting into a story getting to the meat of it getting the conclusion you feel satisfied certainly people can read full-length novels in one sitting but if you're busy doing other things and maybe you don't you you have a captive amount of time specifically the one novella that I finished for this I was setting up for our daughter's birthday party And so I literally had maybe five hours that I was like getting all this stuff done.

[00:32:00]And it was awesome to be able to go through all of the emotions of reading the book, have it wrapped up, tie it up with a bow, and then move on with my day. There was something really satisfying to that. I think they're also great for building momentum. If you're in a reading slump, if you're getting back into reading, if whatever. I think it's a really good way to give yourself that like it's almost like checking a box on a to-do list. I get that same boost of >> what's that called? Endorphins. No, >> dopamine. Thank you. Dopamine. I should know the same boost of dopamine where I'm like done. I've done it. I've read it. So, that's kind of, you know, where I go with that question.

[00:32:34]>> Yeah, that's a great point. And I think that regardless of why you are reading a nolla, whether it's to read something shorter that is still a reflective piece or if you just want to knock something out in one sitting, there is something really satisfying about just Yeah. getting through a book quickly. I mean, I had that thought when I was on the treadmill the other day because I was like, I could start and finish this book on the treadmill.

[00:33:00]That's exciting. And then it is. Yeah, that's fun. Get a little workout in and then also have finished a book that I can bring and and talk and talk to you all about. So, >> dopamine maxing. You've heard that online. Everything is maxing. Whimsy maxing, hobby maxing, dopamine maxing.

[00:33:18]Yes. I could also have used my short story collection or anthology, if you will, as a tackling our TBR because these intimidate me for some reason.

[00:33:29]Even though it doesn't make sense, I'm just [laughter] I I I think cuz I don't read them often.

[00:33:34]They're it's intimidating to me to start it. So, again, thinking back to, you know, our our coming up our upcoming tackling the TBR, definitely a short story or anthology would work for that.

[00:33:46]>> But I feel like I've teased this enough.

[00:33:48]Let me go ahead and just dive right into my first book, which again is I Know a Place by Nat Cassidy. And Nat Cassidy, he is the author of Nestlings, When the Wolves Come Home, Marry, all of those lovely books. And also this novella that I read last two years ago, a couple years ago called Rest Stop. That rest stop is also a part of this collection, and it's the first uh novella that you get with this. There's also an introduction by the man himself, Stephen King, which I was just so happy for the author because he was obviously one of his big inspirations and it's a very kind introduction. The collection as a whole was great. I loved Rest. I gave that five stars. Now, something you should know about this author is that his books are pretty gory. I mean, there's no tiptoeing around it. They are mindbending. They are gory. but gratuitous but also in like a splatterpunk kind of fun way if that's if I'm allowed to say that. Rest was fabulous. Rest was excellent. There I'm not going to go through story by story and tell you which ones I enjoyed. There are some that I liked. There are some that I loved. The ones that I loved are rest stop. There's one about a man that decides to get revenge on his cheating spouse in a way that I'll never forget. And then there's also one about a man who travels back in time to Liverpool to take the Beatles career. Basically, he decides to play all of his songs, all of their songs as though they were his own. Fantastic story, especially if you're somebody that loves the band The Beatles. And then there's also a story that's told entirely in email that somehow scared the crap out of me and I'm showing it on screen. There's like a million emojis.

[00:35:42]How he was able to scare us via emoji and email, I'll never know.

[00:35:48]>> I will say toward the end he got a little artsy slashexperimental and I was like, I don't this is not my vibe. And that's okay. It doesn't all have to be.

[00:35:58]But I think sometimes that's what you might get with a collection. you know, you're not going to vibe with every single one, but I still appreciate and recommend this overall. At the very end, he does include content warnings for each of the stories individually if that's something you would like.

[00:36:12]>> Nice.

[00:36:13]>> Yes. I thought that was nice.

[00:36:14]>> I like that he did it at the end, too.

[00:36:16]>> Yeah, >> because it's like if you want to, you can sneak, but it's not gonna be right there glaringly in the front for people who don't want to be spoiled.

[00:36:26]>> And I think he mentions it in that forward at some point that it's back there if you want. He also talks about uh his inspiration in in his acknowledgements. Overall, really enjoyed this. Thought it was great.

[00:36:37]Highly recommend it. I think I would rank this slightly below Nestlings and Where the Wolf Comes Home. This goes next. And then Mary is my least favorite, but Mary is still a 3.75 and that was his debut. But anyway, okay.

[00:36:52]>> I've read all of his books. An auto readad fave. This collection is called I Know a Place, Rest Stop, and Other Dark Detours by Nat Cassidy.

[00:37:00]>> Oh, you've read all his books now.

[00:37:02]>> I have.

[00:37:03]>> It's exciting. That has to feel good.

[00:37:06]>> It does.

[00:37:07]>> Okay, I will tell you about the first book that I read for this and that is Metamorphosis by France Kafka. And I knew that I wanted to read a classic for this challenge because I feel like while I'm trying to read more classics this year, I don't always reach for the novelas. I I thought about splurging and getting the Penguin Little Black Classics set. I didn't end up doing that. But after reading this book, I think that I might because I really enjoyed my experience reading this one.

[00:37:47]This is the story of a young man who transformed overnight into a giant beetle-like insect and becomes an object of disgrace to his family. He is an outsider in his own home and a quintessentially alienated man. This is a very harrowing but also absurdly satirical and and comical meditation on human feelings of inadequacy, guilt, and isolation and more and has definitely taken its place as one of the most widely read and influential works of 20th century fiction. And I can totally see I can totally see why.

[00:38:31]When I finished this book, I just wrote in my notes, poor Greor, like poor this poor man. He has spent years being the quintessential good like golden child, good son, the reliable provider, the one who has kept his entire family afloat.

[00:38:49]And the moment that he can no longer do that, everything shifts. And another thing that I another thing that I wrote about this one right after I finished was because in the very beginning like the very opening line is when Gregor Samsa woke one morning from troubled dreams he found himself transformed right there in his bed into some sort of monstrous insect. And then as it just the very next very next page he is like what happens what's what's happened to me?

[00:39:24]I'm gonna be late for work. And then he goes into this panic of gonna be I'm gonna be late for work. And it just made me laugh because that is so often like our anxiety dreams that we have. I don't know about you all, but I know for me if I have an anxiety dream, it's always something like that. Like I'm going to be late for a class that I no longer have or I'm going to be late for work. And we'll have all of these things happening in our lives and work that we're trying to do on ourselves to transform our own well-being or, you know, work on these arguably more important things in our life. And really the biggest concern is, oh my gosh, I'm going to be late for my meeting or I'm going to be late for work. Um, even though those things are actually kind of meaningless. I mean, they're not meaningless, but >> in the grand >> I just found that to be funny. In the grand scheme of things, I found that to be funny. I don't know if that is what >> France Kofka was trying to do here.

[00:40:23]>> And but but it's something that I it's something that I took out of it. And that was another thing that I wrote down in [clears throat] my review of this one is I feel like this book, depending on you as a reader, you could pick so many different themes out of it about how, you know, he's transformed into this into this beetle and it didn't really matter what he did or who he was as a son before that. Now his family was just disgusted by him because he looked different. And then there's also kind of this metaphor for when you are transforming or becoming something different. Sometimes there can be some rough patches. It can get worse before it gets better as you're coming of age and and becoming a person. And sometimes as you do that, you fall out of step with your family or become estranged from your family or they think that you've changed when in reality you're becoming a better, stronger, healthier person. So, all that to say, for such a small book, I think that you can take so much out of this one. I read a lot of reviews after I'd finished it, and it felt like every single review that I read was like, "This is what I took out of it." And every single one that I read, I was like, "Oh, yeah. I could totally see that." And it's a very small book. It is 117 pages. I did not read this quickly. So, this is definitely not one that it's like, "Oh, this is 100 pages. You can finish it in one sitting." Mhm.

[00:41:47]>> It is a little bit of a thinker. It's a little bit more dense. It's also a little bit stream of consciousness about this man in a beetle's body. So, you know, it's not the easiest read in terms of it will grip you or be so exciting in a 100 pages, but uh I will say that, you know, this has stayed lodged in readers minds for a century for a reason. I definitely think that it will be one that I continue to think about for a long time. It is bleak. is very strange.

[00:42:16]One of the saddest things you'll ever read about what it costs to stop being needed and so much more. I think you could take so much out of this book depending on you as a reader and a person. I'm going to stop it there even though I could go on for longer. That is Metamorphosis by France Kofka.

[00:42:35]>> Wow, you sold me on that. I had no uh frankly no interest in reading it when I heard you reading it. I was like weird and good. But like I'm like riveted. I also like the cover even though you guys know I'm not a bug gal. I don't like wings. I'm not a bug girl. But that looks great. And I love how you explained the metaphor. And I love that it's one of those things that people can take a lot of different things out of it depending on who they are, their own experiences and where they're at in their lives.

[00:43:05]>> All right. So mine, it's funny because mine is one of those books that you can read in a singing a single sitting. will get gripped right away. I predict it's Obstetrics by Naomi Kitzer.

[00:43:18]I talked about this. I found this because of New Release Tuesday, the videos I make on Instagram, and I'd read the synopsis. I was like, "Dang, that actually sounds really good. Let me put a hold on it." It came through. I pressed play and it is about Dr. Liz.

[00:43:32]Dr. Liz has just been acquitted for performing the last abortion in North Dakota when she's kidnapped.

[00:43:39]She is kidnapped indeed not by just anyone. She is kidnapped by a fundamentalist cult. They live deep in the rural West without respect for law and decency. And these folks are in need of an OBGYn.

[00:43:53]So she, you know, gets taken to this place. She doesn't know where she is.

[00:43:58]She's isolated. and she is expected to perform her duties as a doctor and to uphold the oath do no harm and to work with the women and really everybody on this compound. But specifically, she was brought because one of the women has a very complicated situation with her delivery. The baby is breached and so the woman needs a C-section and so they brought Dr. Liz in to perform it. And um h I will sort of leave the plot there. Just know that there is more to it. I loved this book.

[00:44:33]Dr. Liz immediately I was rooting for her. I loved her. It is a book that gripped me. The pacing was excellent. It was really good on audio, but also I just kept thinking, "Oh my gosh, how is she going to get out of this? Is she going to get out of this?"

[00:44:50]And the author was able to make me feel sympathetic for many of the people that were living in this situation. Um, especially the women and children, right? Also, it made me think about pregnancy and delivery in general. And it made me so grateful for modern medicine in hospitals. You know, I had a tough delivery with my second >> and it was very similar to what's happening to the woman. I was going to say this is Yeah, this is sounding similar to a story you've told me before.

[00:45:22]>> Crazy story, right? The baby is stuck essentially. No, it but it it was sort of similar to something that I experienced and I was like, "Wow, I'm real glad that I was in a hospital when all of that went down.

[00:45:35]>> Um, this is great. It's gripping. I'm really trying to be a sort of vague I would call this actually it's it's a good blend of plot, but also very character- driven. Like I said, I love Dr. Liz. I was so interested in her. Um, and I love the themes that were brought up. Reproductive rights, religious extremism, >> uh, living off the grid, medical ethics, and like this complicated idea of doing the right thing at essentially, for lack of a better metaphor, at gunpoint, right? I thought it was fascinating. I had a great time reading this one. It is again about 200 pages and I got through it very quickly. I thought the writing was clear and if we are using my hypothesis from earlier where you read a novella if it makes you want to read longer fiction or more fiction or more works by the author, this one has definitely done it. Naomi Kritzer is a speculative fiction writer and blogger and it looks like she has a lot of uh short stories but also some books as well that I'm now curious about. This book was Obstetrics by Naomi >> Critzer >> and this came out recently. It came out in June.

[00:46:52]>> Okay, so a very new release. Mhm.

[00:46:55]>> Well, speaking of books that pack a lot of themes into them into them, my next book does the same thing. And I am bringing Automatic Noodle by Anna Lee Nuititz. And this is the one. It has a very very fun fun cover. It's like bright neon pinks and yellows. Yes. and it was also nominated for sci-fi category for the Goodreads Choice Awards last year. That is when it came on my radar and I happened to have an audio copy and so I was like, why not? We have an episode on this coming up and this is a good opportunity to finally knock this off of my TBR. So, Automatic Noodle by Analy News is a cozy sci-fi novela, and it's about a group of abandoned food service robots who boot themselves up in a San Francisco ghost kitchen. And they are trying to survive in a post-war, newly independent California, and are rebranding this restaurant, making handpulled noodles. and they must fight but but they also must fight a review bombing campaign in order to save their new business. So, this is pitched as kind of this cozy book where the sentient robots open up this noodle shop. And I think that I was a little bit thrown off when I started reading that it was pitched as this kind of cozy sci-fi book because this is not personally what I would call cozy. I can see that. But this was also a pretty intense story that dealt with some pretty intense themes. And I will say I think where it lost me a little bit was its execution around those bigger themes. So, these themes in question are things like PTSD, immigration, post-war life, uh, identity, and all of these things do get gestured at, but are never, in my opinion, given quite the room that they needed to land on top of it being pitched as this cozy book. And so, I think that my expectations going into this one were a little bit altered and may have altered my feelings about the book overall.

[00:49:14]However, I do still think that there is a good book in here and I would absolutely recommend this one to the right reader. I think if you are looking for something that deals with some of these deeper themes, but you also want to get through a book quickly, if you're a science science fiction reader and you need kind of a palette cleanser, this is exactly the kind of book that I would recommend to a reader looking for those things. Oh, one of the things that I wanted to mention about this one too is that some of the slang felt a little anacronistic for a book set decades from now and like like they were using words like riz and things like that which I was like that word is already lost. I don't know if they would be saying it during this time. So, I don't know. I there were just some things with this one that kind of pulled me out. But like I said, I would recommend this one to the right reader. Cozy, I think, must just be a subjective term. When I think of cozy, I think of a Psalm for the Wild Built by Becky Chambers. That to me is quintessential cozy sci-fi. This one is a little bit heavier than that while also doing a lot of telling rather than showing you with the themes. So, that was a little bit of a chaotic review. But, I think what I'm trying to say is that this book lost me a little bit. I would still recommend it to some readers and I definitely hope that more people read this one because I thought that if anything this is a really unique plot and I think for the right science fiction reader could be a really fun one. So that was automatic noodle by Anna Lee Newit. I love it. And I think you're right. Cozy is sort of a >> subjective term and it's almost one that I'm like I don't know what I I don't know if I quite know what it is, but that's okay. It does have a great cover.

[00:51:08]I'm glad that you crossed it off the TBR.

[00:51:11]>> I was curious about it as well when I saw it on the Goodreads Choice Awards.

[00:51:16]>> All right. So, I am going to tell you about my shelf edition. Another recent acquisition that just came through. It is the Seekers of Deer Creek. This one's by Thao Thai. They are the author of Banyan Moon, which was a read with Jenna.

[00:51:30]>> I like that one.

[00:51:32]>> Yeah. Did you read that one?

[00:51:33]>> I did.

[00:51:34]>> Oh, good. So, this is the author's upcoming novel. This one comes out on August 4th, and it is a captivating, evocative saga of two aranged sisters on a quest to find a painting by a forgotten Vietnamese artist that holds the truth of their family's fractured past. Immediately from that short blurb, it reminded me of Good Dirt by Charmaine Wilkerson in that you've got this family heirloom that holds a lot of secrets, a lot of its past. So, I was okay. My ears were perked. And aside from the fact that they're sisters, Vivian and Kala, have little in common. Vivy is the elder sister, lives an orderly and predictable life, she works as an art conservator at a museum in Chicago, carefully pre preserving pieces of the past, all while refusing to examine her own dark history.

[00:52:23]Her younger sister, Kala, leads a much bolder, if occasionally reckless, existence. She is an artist with a flare for the dramatic and is also a recovering addict. Months after the two fall out in the wake of their father's death, Calla appears on the steps of the museum with a sketch in a letter she found in their father's belongings. The sketch is an exact copy of Blue Mirror, a striking painting by a surrealist Vietnamese painter. And in the letter, they write about a mysterious lost work of art. And Kala is convinced that it is meant for their family and that it was and that it was their father's deathbed wish for her and Vivy to find it together. And they kind of have to decide if they're going to do this and figure out the origin. I think this sounds great. I think if you like a sister story, this one could be very good. Also, I like the story of sisters that are sort of trying to figure out uh secrets from their family's past, a deathbed wish. I like the sound of that.

[00:53:19]But this a this book is called The Seekers of Deer Creek by Thou Tai.

[00:53:24]>> Yeah, I agree. That one sounds really good. That's on my NetGalley shelf.

[00:53:29]There you go.

[00:53:29]>> Yes.

[00:53:30]>> My shelf edition I'm so excited about.

[00:53:33]Mostly because I got it from Blackwells. It doesn't come out in the US until February 2027.

[00:53:42]And I was sad when I saw the release date for it because it's one of my favorite authors. Well, okay. Let me just tell you about the book. It's People in Love by Claire Diego.

[00:53:52]>> Talking at Night was one of my favorites and I was like, I'm so excited for her to come out with another book. And when I saw she was coming out with another one, I was like, heck yeah, I'm so excited. Doesn't come out until February 2027, but is already out in the UK. So, I went ahead and snagged a copy from Blackwells. This one sounds just as good at talking at night and kind of in the same vein. Well, I'll tell you what it's about. One bright blue day on a bench by the river, Norah's partner, Robin, proposes. It is unexpected. They'd always agreed that they didn't need a wedding, but after a decade of in jokes, dancing in their low lit kitchen, and sharing morning toast in bed, Nora says yes, because why wouldn't she? The answer lands on the night of their engagement party when Bren turns up on her doorstep. Growing up, Bren and Nora were the sort of best friends who everyone swore would end up together one day. But when a sudden heartbreak turned their lives upside down, Bren left, Nora stayed, and the silent longing between them remained unspoken. Now he's back and their tentative yet undeniable spark reignites, forcing Nora to ask herself, "How can you know your heart if it feels like it is split in two?"

[00:55:08]Sounds so good to me. Sounds dramatic and >> like it's going to be just sounds really good. That's People in Love by Claire Daily.

[00:55:19]>> Yes, that sounds like it's going to be a hit once it finally comes out here in the US. Well folks, that is it for today. Thank you [music] so much for spending a part of your day with us.

[00:55:30]Links to all the books mentioned can be found in the show notes. And if you enjoyed today's episode, you [music] can help us by following wherever you listen and by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us get our show out to new listeners and grows our audience.

[00:55:42]And don't forget, if you'd like access to exclusive bonus content and community, you can join us for $5 a month on patreon.com/booktalk etc. If you'd like to connect with us, you can email us at bookt talk [email protected].

[00:55:56]You can also connect with us both at bookt [music] talk etc on Instagram and YouTube. You can find Tina at TBR etc and Hannah at handpicked books. Talk to you next week. And in the meantime, remember everything's better with books.

[00:56:11]>> So >> listen, I will just talk to you.

[00:56:14]>> I'll be here. Don't you worry.

[00:56:16]>> I'll be here. I'm just going to click clack away.