92: Her Son's Biological Father Murdered Him Before Taking His Own Life

[00:00:00]Hi and welcome back to Beyond the Monsters. Today we have Brandy here with us from Michigan. Hello. [laughter] Welcome. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:13][music and singing] want to live my life.

[00:00:24]>> All right, the floor is yours.

[00:00:29]So, my son Rowan was 6 years old and he passed away 10 days before his seventh birthday. I had a really um high conflict situation with his father for years. There was so much course of control going on. I think in 2020 we had a a court hearing scheduled to lower his child support, but it was co, you know, >> everybody's laid off. He wanted his lowered, whatever. I couldn't make it.

[00:01:00]We had to adjourn because I was getting a mastctomy.

[00:01:03]>> Oh jeez.

[00:01:04]>> He returned Rowan completely bald, shaved him to the scope. And in that moment, like when he opened the door and I saw him, I did not give a reaction. I just went, "Hi, baby." Gave him a hug, grabbed him, and got in my car as fast I could. And that ride home, I'm like, the realization hit me if he's willing to do this and be so obvious to get to me.

[00:01:30]>> Mhm.

[00:01:30]>> What else is he capable of?

[00:01:32]>> Right?

[00:01:33]>> I've never been more stalked in my life.

[00:01:36]I mean, I know at one point I woke up and he sent me a text and he's like, "If you needed $10,000 for Copico Community Credit Union, why didn't you tell me?"

[00:01:47]That was where my car loan was through how he was an engineer um in Mount Pleasant and he just knew ways to get into stuff.

[00:01:58]I get notifications all the time.

[00:02:00]Someone's trying to hack my iCloud.

[00:02:01]Somebody's He got into all my social media.

[00:02:04]>> I'm sorry. Were you guys just so everybody can see the whole picture or like listen in on the on the whole thing here. You were married to him previously. You weren't even married?

[00:02:16]>> No.

[00:02:17]>> Nope.

[00:02:17]>> Nope.

[00:02:18]>> And you?

[00:02:20]>> Yeah. Nope. This was a shortlived situation with that person.

[00:02:24]>> Okay.

[00:02:24]>> I don't even like to think about it.

[00:02:26]>> Yeah.

[00:02:26]>> And when it first came about Rowan, he was about a year and a half, just over a year old, and he didn't want anything to do with him. And I sent him a text. I just was getting sentimental around Christmas. Had this beautiful picture of my baby boy, his big blue eyes.

[00:02:43]>> And I sent him a picture and I'm like, I just want you to know you have a beautiful child less than 10 minutes from you.

[00:02:50]>> And then he reached out probably a few months after that, which I regret every day of. But at the beginning of that, I told him, I'm like, I don't want your money. I don't want anything from you.

[00:03:01]I've been divorced. I have older children. I've seen what that does to them. I just want him to have the best beautiful life and that worked for about 3 months.

[00:03:11]And then, you know, we would have dinner on Wednesdays or on Sundays and my best friend Shannon was like, "You're screwing up." I go, "What do you mean?"

[00:03:23]And she's like, "You're showing him a picture of something he can't have." And I'm like, "Well, how else am I supposed to do this? I'm not going to hand my child over to this person that we both don't really know, >> right?

[00:03:35]>> And so we tried and it did. It painted a picture for him. And within 3 months, he wanted the whole picture. And he had sent me a message. He's like, "Listen, you can move in with me, work if you want to get get the Jeep that you want.

[00:03:51]Listen, I do that for myself."

[00:03:53]But [clears throat] in that moment, I'm like, "Oh jeez." And I just I message him back. I'm like, "Listen, I appreciate everything that you're saying. I just think we'd be a really good team and give this baby the best life he could possibly have."

[00:04:08]And then I woke up to World War II just he didn't have a license. He couldn't drive. He had just lost his job. But yet somehow he knew where I was at all times. I know at one point he said to me, he's like, "What? No cheers tonight?

[00:04:26]That was a place I would go with my girlfriends for wings on Wednesdays.

[00:04:30]How do you know that?

[00:04:32]And then um he sent me a text that said, "What? No, Chandandy. This week I had gone out with a guy named Chan Chad twice >> for a couple weeks."

[00:04:43]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:45]He would send me stuff that just made me I know I was home alone one night and I got up and went my basement a three-story townhouse to check my windows because I was so worried like and my neighbor brought over a gun. I'm like I don't want to be alone right now.

[00:05:04]I'm scared.

[00:05:06]And just the way he would he started looking at me. He It was just constant. So I put Rowan in therapy. I think he was around three cuz he kept shaving and bald.

[00:05:22]Yeah. And I thought, you know what? By the time he gets school age, maybe he'll stop. But then Rowan started acting out.

[00:05:28]And he was telling me, he's like, "Mommy, daddy chased me and held me down and forced me to get my head my hair off." I'm like, "Oh my god.

[00:05:39]So I got him into therapy and this was still during COVID so it was a lot of online stuff or whatnot.

[00:05:45]>> Did he ever like what's what was the purpose in doing that? Just a control thing?

[00:05:50]>> Coercive control >> cuz he knew he didn't like it.

[00:05:53]>> I was a hairdresser for 30 years.

[00:05:56]>> How else better?

[00:05:58]>> Yeah.

[00:05:58]>> And it coincided always with big family events. So my oldest son uh was getting married and he knew about it. He knew Rowan was going to be in it. Shaved him completely bald the week before the wedding. So in a lot of our family pictures, Rowan's got like a little hat on, which in that one he looks terrible cuz he was sick, too. So he's got like big dark circles under his eyes.

[00:06:24]>> It was just And then eventually I think he did that five times.

[00:06:30]And I knew that the system wasn't going to do anything about it cuz they don't recognize coercive control, mental, emotional abuse. Those things don't factor into them. And so with all my evidence, finally in 2023, cuz I had gotten married, he returned him. I think it was 27° out. He bicked him so bald that there were little nicks in his head.

[00:06:56]And so finally I called CPS and I told them what Rowan had been telling me. The house is really dirty. Daddy sleeps all the time. I only have toast to eat.

[00:07:07]>> Oh.

[00:07:07]>> And that he was shaved bald.

[00:07:11]That CVS worker showed up to my house, took my statement. I told her everything. She went out to his house and, you know, went out there different times, two different times, and knocked and he didn't answer. So then for like a week or so she called and called and he finally answered and he goes, "I demand to know what the allegations are." So she told him and she had the audacity to come back to my home and sit in my living room and tell me. She's like, "The house was so clean I could smell bleach." I'm like, "Well, obviously you told him."

[00:07:46]>> Yes.

[00:07:47]>> She's like, "There was food in the fridge. You know, the things they check." And she goes, "And he can take care of his hygiene as he sees fit on his parenting time." I leaned over and I stuck my finger in her face. I go, "If he was a little girl, you wouldn't say that."

[00:08:00]>> Right.

[00:08:01]>> She closed the case and she left.

[00:08:03][sighs] >> Yeah. So once I got married, um I moved like an hour and a half away, which we knew was going to be a big situation cuz he can't drive.

[00:08:14]So, we were moving him, relocating a school to a private Christian school affiliated with our church. Um, we lived on a golf course. We still do. Rowan played PGA Junior. He got to learn how to swim that summer. He was living his best life. But we spent the better part of that whole year in mediation with this man. And at one point, I think it was in May of 2024, he sent a letter that had an attorney's letter head on it. We don't believe he actually had the attorney.

[00:08:44]>> Mhm.

[00:08:45]>> That said he agreed to move to where we were.

[00:08:50]I was flabbergasted and actually fell for it for a few minutes because I sent it to my husband. I'm like, "Have you seen this?" He goes, "I have. I don't even know what to do with it." I'm like, "Is this really I actually had flashes of seeing my life down there and his dad coming to watch him play PGA Jr. watch him swim, do the things I really thought, you know, he liked to live in the Cinderella bubble.

[00:09:16]>> Sure.

[00:09:17]>> That isn't real. And within two days, he uh emailed us back and said, "Absolutely not. I'm not going." Cuz we had already enrolled Rowan in the Christian school.

[00:09:27]And he was mad about that.

[00:09:30]>> He wasn't going to do it.

[00:09:31]>> No, he wasn't. So then we obtained an attorney and my best friend Annie and I, we made this huge spreadsheet of the love and caring of a children in Michigan, how you get custody.

[00:09:44]>> Mhm.

[00:09:45]>> And it's who does the lunches, who takes them there, you know, all these things.

[00:09:49]And we had evidence and we labeled it.

[00:09:51]And I sent all this to my attorney and we met with him and he sat there in front of me. He's like, "Do you have all this evidence?" I'm like, "And it's labeled." And I shoved this huge stack of papers in front of him and he goes, "Whoa."

[00:10:06]And we were just changing custody. Like he was still going to get weekends maybe, whatever.

[00:10:12]>> My attorney called me back. He goes, "We're not changing custody. We're taking him." After what I've been looking at, like this is ridiculous. For two years, he didn't take him to school.

[00:10:23]He didn't have to because in Michigan you have to be six years old for truenced him. So it had been 2 or 3 hours in this day and age with our technology that we have. Nothing. Then he claimed he didn't have a cell phone. So, he had a landline with an answering machine, but would unplug it when he didn't want me to be able to get in touch. I never I never filed for anything the whole time that we were going through this. I filed one thing. I wanted phone privileges.

[00:11:05]>> It was denied.

[00:11:06]>> You just wanted to talk >> I wanted to be able to talk to my son while he was there.

[00:11:09]>> While he was there.

[00:11:10]>> Yeah. And it was denied.

[00:11:11]>> For what reason?

[00:11:13]>> She quoted all these other cases where honestly it didn't make any sense to me.

[00:11:17]and I knew I couldn't fight it, so I just moved on. And then, you know, fast forward to we're taking custody. The weirdest part was, and get this, this is the summer before he passed away.

[00:11:28][snorts] I told him, I go, "Listen, I know you don't have a license. My mom lives up there. She can pick him up. We'll meet halfway or I'll even come and get him the whole way. I don't care." Like, whatever. This is what he did. He had to ride a bike that had a trailer on it. He did this in the winter whenever with Rowan in the back. So he took his bike to Central Michigan University, got a bus that connected to another bus that took and then he took um an Uber to a hotel and then an Uber to my home in the morning. It took him two days to get to me. He did that all summer long instead of me helping him out.

[00:12:11]Make it make sense.

[00:12:12]>> Yeah.

[00:12:13]>> Right. [snorts] So, it was getting close to the big day, September 5th. We had a court date set and school was starting soon. And I remember August 12th, I got him up. He didn't really want to get up to go to his dad's. It was that Monday.

[00:12:30]And I just let him stay in his pajamas and his little robe and we drove up there.

[00:12:36]And he has a long driveway. So, his property is long. It goes far back.

[00:12:41]Right.

[00:12:43]I know he's had several vehicles. I've seen them for a person without a license. It's so strange. But I pull up and there's a white camper to the right and a black truck backed in in front of his garage. And he's standing outside the garage with half of his body turned away from me. And I always used to pull up in a way where he couldn't just stare at me like he always did. And I just focused on Rowan. And we kiss each other all over the face. He's kissing me, I'm kissing him. And I I told him, I go, "How much do I love you?" And he goes, "Too much, mama."

[00:13:17]>> And he got out.

[00:13:20]That was the last time I saw my son alive.

[00:13:26]That week, I just focused on court and he actually had reached out to Rowan's pediatrician and dentist down there to get his records because we're going to court, right? Makes it look like he's still doing that.

[00:13:42]So, [snorts] oddly, the weekend before he was due home, it was the 19th, I know it was the 18th, I was laying in bed with my husband in his arms screaming and balling. And I told him, I said, "If anything happens to him, don't expect me to make it through it. I won't."

[00:14:02]Your mom always has, you know, we know.

[00:14:04]I got up that morning because he was due back uh at 9:00 a.m. and I'd sit in the front living room and wait for him cuz I don't know what car it is, you know?

[00:14:16]It's always something different.

[00:14:18]9:03 I knew I knew. I just I knew. And I called my husband like quarter after 9:00 and he's like, "Honey, just take a breath. You know, we have to wait till 9:30." I'm like, "I can't. I just can't.

[00:14:32]There's something wrong. I know there is. God, you knew. Yeah. So, at 9:30 in Michigan, you get like 30 minute window to drop them off if there's weather issues or car issues, whatnot. So, you have to wait till 9:30. Try waiting.

[00:14:49]It's so hard. Especially when your gut is everything in you is saying, "Yeah, >> something's bad. This is bad." So, I called my attorney. My husband came home. I called my attorney and he's like, "Listen, this is what we're going to do. I'm getting paperwork ready. You call the police." I'm like, "Okay." I actually called front of the court first. And our case worker, she knows us. We're high conflict. All the case workers that have high conflict people, they know you.

[00:15:16]>> Mhm.

[00:15:17]>> And I could hear in her voice, she's like, "Hold on. I'm getting my supervisor." She's never done that before. And I'm like, "Oh jeez."

[00:15:25]Supervisor comes out. She's like, "Brandy, call the police." I'm like, "Okay, all right." So, I call at 10:00.

[00:15:31]They did a wellness check at 10:28 a.m.

[00:15:34]No truck, no camper, no one's there. And I'm like, he calls me back, the officer does, and he goes, "Call me back at 6:00 p.m. You you you want me to wait till 6:00 p.m.?

[00:15:51]My son's missing?

[00:15:53]There's no communication in this day and age. None.

[00:15:58]No email, no text message because he doesn't have a cell phone, right?

[00:16:03]>> Nothing. It just all like you call his home phone, the answering machine was unplugged. It is the most suffocating, paralyzing feeling going, "What is happening?"

[00:16:16]>> Mhm.

[00:16:17]>> And my husband and I were at a loss. And at one point, because we kept calling Isabella County back, that's where Rowan was missing. The sheriff's on there were like, "Listen, you need to call your own county, Kent County, where I had moved to." Like, >> but he was missing from his >> Isabella County.

[00:16:39]>> Yes.

[00:16:39]>> And my husband's like, "Wait a minute."

[00:16:41]Like, this doesn't make sense.

[00:16:43]>> Yes.

[00:16:43]>> But we did. And Kent County came out. My husband called the guy Power Stash cuz he had this cute mustache. [laughter] And he had found five phone numbers in the 20 minutes it took him to get to us.

[00:16:58]Five cell numbers to be exact. Yeah. And had tried them all. Not successful. And he goes, "Listen, you guys, there's nothing we can do here. He's not missing here and it's not our jurisdiction." I'm like, "That's what we thought."

[00:17:14]>> Yeah. No [ __ ] We've already been trying.

[00:17:16]>> Right. Right. So he's like, "Go up there. Go up there. Get in their faces.

[00:17:22]you know, just let them see this isn't a joke, >> right?

[00:17:25]>> Like this is this is something bad. And I have a really close friend that's a um social worker. She's like, "Dude, Brandy, you got to go up there like cuz you know what do we do?"

[00:17:37]>> So we did. We drove up. It was later that night and my stepson Bryson was with us. I think he gosh, he was 12 at the time. He was big brother, big time.

[00:17:48]And he was even nervous. And so like the body cam footage we have is blurred out cuz Bryson's standing there, but I remember I had to grab his shoulder and tell the cop I'm like, "I'm sorry. He's very nervous. He really loves his brother." And then he was like choking up and he was like, "Listen, my brother didn't want to go.

[00:18:08]Like he's been acting up over the summer and he was like, "My brother doesn't want to be there. Can you just go get my brother?" [snorts] It broke me. And my husband said, "Brandy," or he he asked Bryson, he's like, "Hey, take Brandy to the car. I want to talk to the cops for a minute."

[00:18:28]And I'm I'm out of my mind, you know, with worry. I'm not even thinking about what he's saying.

[00:18:33]>> Thank God. I I'm glad I didn't know because I couldn't let it in my head even though it was there.

[00:18:39]There's body cam footage of my husband standing there as calm as can be and he's like, "Listen, this guy can't drive, doesn't have a job, and he will do anything to hurt her. This is a murder suicide situation."

[00:18:52]>> I'll get everything put into this for you guys.

[00:18:55]>> So much. Thank you.

[00:18:57]>> Have a good rest of your night.

[00:18:58]>> Yeah, you too. Can I just I just want to mention one thing without you around.

[00:19:03]>> If that's okay. All right.

[00:19:04]>> Can I Okay. All right.

[00:19:08]I just don't want to say um because I know it's going to it it's been a concern for her is the murder suicide for him and that's why I said when he has no job, no car, no vehicle, nothing to do, he doesn't have a whole lot to live for and the way to get at her is to hurt our son.

[00:19:27]>> And that's why we are severely concerned because we he has a lot of guns. We wouldn't put put it past him that he kill him and then off himself. Okay.

[00:19:37]>> So, that and I didn't want to say that her because I know she'll lose it, but I know it's in her mind, too.

[00:19:43]>> So, >> okay.

[00:19:45]>> That's our number [clears throat] one thing on why we're concerned is we believe he's probably that unhinged.

[00:19:50]>> Okay.

[00:19:50]>> So, either way, >> we're trying to do the best we can. So, >> we'll we'll do our best.

[00:19:55]>> All right. Great. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. All right. Take care.

[00:19:59]>> This is night one. You can see the cops standing there just Yeah. Okay. Okay. like it's something they just hear all the time.

[00:20:08]>> Yeah. It wasn't a big deal. It was no urgency, no nothing. But if it was their child, they would.

[00:20:14]>> Mhm.

[00:20:14]>> So, they went out and they did a wellness check at 1:28 a.m. And we didn't know then, but they walked the property and we have body cam footage of it now. This cop, we have his body cam footage. The one walking next to him, we don't, but you can hear him.

[00:20:33]And this cop says, "House looks decent.

[00:20:36]She must be the crazy one."

[00:20:40]>> Yeah.

[00:20:43][groaning] >> Did you look around back when you're here last time at all?

[00:20:48]>> No, I just walked back.

[00:20:49]>> Okay. Truck's still in the garage.

[00:20:57]>> I saw you here. I'm like, "Somebody's here." Yeah, me. It's grand. [laughter] I don't know where you [ __ ] came to this.

[00:21:07]>> I would assume probably like over there where the grass is all dead.

[00:21:11]>> Yeah, right there.

[00:21:12]>> Uh-huh.

[00:21:22]Guess look in the bullbar and see if it's parked in there.

[00:21:27]>> Yeah, looks like it.

[00:21:30]probably in the last day or two.

[00:21:35]No camper.

[00:21:38]Obviously, it's got multiple vehicles.

[00:21:40][laughter] >> It's a decent place.

[00:21:43]>> Yeah.

[00:21:52]>> She probably is.

[00:21:54]And they walk the property back. And so the property goes along and in the middle of the property is this abandoned white sedan with the dome light on.

[00:22:06]And as soon as they get close to the dome light, the footage cuts off.

[00:22:10][snorts] A car back there.

[00:22:15]>> Yeah.

[00:22:45]just a junk car.

[00:22:48]>> [sighs and gasps] [snorts] >> That's it. So, after we spoke with the cops that night, we drove home without him.

[00:23:04]I screamed and cried the whole way home.

[00:23:07]I didn't sleep. I didn't eat. I didn't anything. [snorts] I'm just sitting up in bed next to my husband.

[00:23:14]It was probably like just before 5:00 in the morning and my daughter calls and she's like, "Mom, where's my brother?"

[00:23:26][snorts] And then it's the part where you have to kick in and still be mom and be like, [snorts] I told her, I'm like, "Sissy, he's fine. He's fine. We're going to find him. It's fine. He's just pulling his [ __ ] It's going [snorts] to be fine, right?"

[00:23:41]H. She's like, "Okay, mom. Okay, mom."

[00:23:44]I'm like, "I love you so much. It's going to be fine." 2 seconds later after I hang up with her, big brother calls and Bailey's like, "Mom, what is going on with my brother?" And I'm like, "God, did we forget to tell the kids what was going on in the mass histia?" And I'm [snorts] like, "Bae, listen. It's going to be fine. We're going to find him.

[00:24:05]It's fine." He's like, "Mom, what?" I'm like, "It's fine. It's fine. I'll [snorts] be in touch tomorrow. We have more paperwork. We got to file tomorrow.

[00:24:13]It's going to be fine. Oh. So, I got up and left the house [snorts] really early and went back to Mount Pleasant to my attorney's office. My husband and my stepson stayed at the house in case he tried to pull a Oh, I'm one day late.

[00:24:26]You know, we had this going on. Anything which we were hoping. [snorts] I flew back up there to my attorney's office. Shout out Gavin McClintic. He's amazing. He looked like Jesus. He had on He had on little cargo shorts with strappy sandals. He's like, "I've been here since before 5." I'm like, "Oh my goodness." He's like, "Well, we're going to do this, this, and this. We're going to file an emergency motion right now.

[00:24:51]You I got to run home and get my suit."

[00:24:53]I'm like, "I'm fine with you like that.

[00:24:55]I didn't care. [laughter] Let's go."

[00:24:56]>> And we went and we went to the courthouse. My case worker and the supervisor came down to talk to us. I'm like, "It's day two, guys." And she's like, "I'm going to get it to the judge like right now. We're going to get it signed as soon as possible. We're doing this." I'm like, "Okay, good." So that way then the cops can go in, right? So we leave and we went out to my mom's house and we're just sitting there waiting cuz where do you look? What do you do? I had put him missing on social media all over the place and he was pretty much going viral all over Michigan. So, we were getting a lot of, you know, how many 4 foot, blonde hair, blue-eyed boys are in Michigan? A lot.

[00:25:40]So, we were getting false sightings, stuff like that, but it was encouraging, right?

[00:25:44]>> Um, we just sat at my mom's house and my aunt Carrie uh was a county north of Isabel County. She's a Mounty, like looks for people on horses, >> okay?

[00:25:56]>> Works for a sheriff's up there. And she calls me and she goes, "Don't go to Isabelle County Sheriff. What are you doing?" She's like, "They're the worst.

[00:26:04]Get out. Get your ass out of there and go to Michigan State Police now." I'm like, "Okay, we're go." I'm like, "Honey, get in the car." We drove to the state police post. And the look on that dude's face behind the window, he was like, "Wait, how long's he been missing?" I'm like, "I think we're going on 30 hours now." And he's like, "Hold on." and an officer came out into the foyer and talked to me. He's like, "Tell me everything." And I could tell by the way he's acting. I'm like, "Okay."

[00:26:37]>> Yeah. Because for a child, it should be immediate, >> right? Like, would you?

[00:26:42]>> Especially that young. He's not like a teenager or anything, you know, just >> he's just a little guy.

[00:26:48]>> Yeah. And this cop is like, "Okay, we're going to" And as soon as he's talking to me, I can hear people leaving out the back of the station and they're they're flying out of the station and he's like, "We're doing our own wellness check right now." Like, "Yes, thank God." I walked outside to call my best friend. I'm like, "Dude, it's happening. They're listing him as missing. If they don't find him right now, it's finally they're listening."

[00:27:13]It was great. It was just such a a some hope, you know? Right.

[00:27:18]>> I walk back in to the Michigan State Police post and I hear the dispatcher.

[00:27:25]Her name was Rachel from day one. I know it was her cuz I remember her voice and how cruel she was to us the first day.

[00:27:33]>> I heard her over there radio yelling.

[00:27:36]We've already spoken to her. This is a civil matter. Send her on her way.

[00:27:43]And my gut just dropped and I ran to the window and I'm like screaming. I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no." Like, "He's missing. This is" And the officer came out and he's like, "Brandy, we can't help."

[00:27:55]>> Oh my god.

[00:27:56]>> They had jurisdiction.

[00:28:02]So, all we had to do was wait and for the judge, right? So, we went and sat somewhere and Brian and Bryson got food.

[00:28:12]I I couldn't eat. I just sat there. One of the Isabella County Sheriff's called me and was like, "You know what? I've been involved with you guys before. Just so you know, I saw them on Friday. You know, I live out by there." I'm like, "Okay, you saw them. How?" He's like, "He was on his bike riding down the road." I'm like, "Was Rowan in the trailer?" He goes, "Well, he had the trailer." I'm like, "Did you see him?"

[00:28:35]He goes, "I guess not." I'm like, "Dude, okay." So, then my attorney calls right after that and he's like, "Brandy, the judge, denied it." Oh my god. Same judge who yelled at me the year before for calling CPS on the man that had my son.

[00:28:54]Yelled at me, ridiculed me. That's for children who need it. That's for children who need it. I highly doubt he only had toast to eat.

[00:29:04]>> That judge still sits the bench to this day.

[00:29:09]And we drove home again without him.

[00:29:12]Oh my god, Brandy. Yeah, I just I didn't sleep again. I had I had reached out to news stations and they were finally starting to come around. So by morning, my best friend Annie, she's like, "Listen, you've done everything. You've gone above and beyond. There's not much else to do but wait for the TV stations to show up." She's like, "You have an appointment at noon, so keep it. Go do that and then we'll we'll figure out what's going on afterwards." She's like, "I'll keep working on it while you do that." Like, "Okay."

[00:29:47]Rowan was actually due in therapy later that day, too. I left for my appointment. I was gone about an hour and I was standing in line to pay for my appointment and I looked down at my phone and Sageno Chipwa Indian Tribe, which is right by in Isabel County, listed him as missing. his picture, everything. It was everywhere. I'm like, "Yes." And Annie's calling me as I seen it and she's like, "Did you see it? Did you see it?" I'm like, "I did." Like, "Holy [ __ ] can finally, you know?"

[00:30:14]>> Yeah.

[00:30:15]>> And I wasn't that far.

[00:30:16]>> On to a little more hope.

[00:30:17]>> Yeah. There's a little bit little bit left >> and I go home. I'm not that far. So, I pull down my street. This is how oblivious I was. Two houses down, there was a marked sheriff's car and an unmarked one. and I pull into my driveway. My garage is open because my husband was in the backyard working. So, I just walk through the garage to go find my husband and be a little gossipy, right? And be like, "Oh my god, the sheriff's here at the neighbor's house kind of thing."

[00:30:46]>> And he wasn't out there. And I'm like, "Well, what the hell?" So, I went into the house and I went through my office and saw my front living room. My stepson was pacing back and forth and couldn't look at me. And he's standing with this woman that I don't know. I'm like, who is that? Like, who does he have over?

[00:31:04]You know, I it just did not. [snorts] And then I turned the corner and the first person I saw was my pastor and like eight Kent County Sheriff's, my [snorts] my parents and my husband's balling.

[00:31:25]It was like a full metal wall hit me and this shock went through. I fell straight to the ground [snorts] screaming.

[00:31:34]Nothing makes sense in those moments.

[00:31:36]Like my first thought was to get to my phone. So I stood up to grab my phone and be like, "Annie, call my best friend that I've known for 40 years and be like, "He's gone." And she answered and I'm like, "He's gone. He's gone. He's gone." And I look at this tall sheriff.

[00:31:51]How these guys do this job, I don't know. I'm [snorts] like, "Is he gone? Is he gone?" He's like, "Yes, ma'am.

[00:32:00]And Annie's like, "Brandy, that's not funny. It doesn't make sense. You don't make sense. What are you saying?" And I'm like, "I can't talk to you anymore."

[00:32:06]I gave the phone to the officer and they told her. I wouldn't let anyone hug me.

[00:32:10]I hated it. I just was like, "Get off."

[00:32:14][snorts] I went up and I I grabbed my my pastor and he [snorts] sat down on my couch first and I pointed at him like, "Oh, my God didn't do this." He goes, "No, he did not. No, he did not.

[00:32:28]And I sat down with him and I go, "I know God wants me to forgive this person for what he did and I know the Bible says that. What do I do? What do I do?"

[00:32:36]He goes, "You don't. We're going to pray about it right now and we're going to give it to God." And I tell you what, the best gift I've gotten out of this is that I have no hate in my heart for that person to this day. I don't have to carry that around because he took it for me.

[00:32:55]The week before he died, he laid in my arms.

[00:33:00]We'd always I'd read him a story and we'd say our prayers.

[00:33:04]My dad had passed away before he was born. So, at [snorts] the end of our prayers, I'm like, "Who do we say good night to?" He's like, "Papa and Jesus."

[00:33:14]I like to think when he passed away, he met them and went, "My mama told me all about you."

[00:33:21][laughter] [snorts] But the week before he died, he was laying in my arms for our prayers and stuff, and he's like, "Mom, I'm I'm scared to die."

[00:33:36]And I said, "Baby, you're gonna [snorts] outlive mama and you're going to have a big family and lots of kids and you're going to have this huge life."

[00:33:45]He knew just like I did. He knew.

[00:33:50]And that person wanted me to suffer for the rest of my life. And trust me, I do.

[00:33:56]But I'm [snorts] doing something with it.

[00:33:59]>> [sighs and gasps] >> That camper that was on the side, he set it there to make it look like they were going camping. They never left. That car that had the dome light on, probably 50 ft past that, behind some brush was the camper. He murdered [snorts] my son in that camper.

[00:34:18]>> And then he shot himself. There's literally Wait till you see him. It's It's a gut punch, man. He was He was the best.

[00:34:29]He played PGA Jr. with his stepbrother who was 12. He played he was six playing with 12-year-olds [snorts] and he carried his weight like he sunk like a 52 foot putt for them on one of the hardest holes. Then on the hole that we live on, it's a big par five right in the middle. My um neighbors and all my friends got together and made a Rowan's tea. So it's orange and it's right where he hit his longest drive. I have the video of it. He so cute. He hits it and smokes it like 110 yards. [laughter] And I'm [snorts] just videotaping him. He turns around, picks his butt, and goes, "I smoked that thing."

[00:35:13][laughter] And just walking back all cocky and flipping his head.

[00:35:21]Whoa, [crying] buddy.

[00:35:28]right in front of our house.

[00:35:35]>> Yes, you did. Yes, you did.

[00:35:37]>> But he just he loved his life and he the end of his life was so beautiful. He learned how to swim. He was getting ready to play um flag football. He couldn't wait. We just got his little cleats and his little mits to catch the ball. [snorts] his team wore RM stickers and they never even met him. [snorts] My stepson, all of his football, football, basketball, everything he plays, he's got RM on him. Like, our community really came together. And when I look back on it, I know God brought me, my husband, moved me to that community, to my church to prepare me for this, cuz I wouldn't have made it without them. [snorts] and do all the things that we're doing now. So, is this the path I wanted? Hell no.

[00:36:31]Right.

[00:36:32]>> But God made me Rowan's mom for a reason.

[00:36:38]I'm so sorry. I could like barely talk.

[00:36:40]It's okay. [laughter] It's tough. I got to feel bad. I'm sorry.

[00:36:44]>> It's okay.

[00:36:47][snorts] >> Cuz this hasn't even been that long, right? It'll be 2 years August 21st.

[00:36:55]I had the his birthday stuff in the garage when we were leaving for his funeral, like a big we were doing like a big Nerf gun thing and I got like all the stuff set up so they could have Nerf gun stations for his birthday. I walked past that on the way to bury my son.

[00:37:15]There's nothing that it just was the amount of shock that you're in doesn't wear off for months. And there's >> imagine >> it's just it's not real. [snorts] >> And there's certain things at the funeral that my husband's like, "You were really upset. You didn't want him to have to wear a hat cuz the funeral director's like, "We might have to." I couldn't comprehend what that meant.

[00:37:41]>> Yeah.

[00:37:41]>> I didn't know. And they didn't put a hat on him. And he looked perfect. He looked beautiful. I couldn't touch him though cuz he wasn't there anymore.

[00:37:51]So my dad had passed away and then I was pregnant with Rowan like a month later.

[00:37:56]So I named him after my dad. So now he's buried right next to my dad.

[00:38:02]I think the hardest part was like, of course I was losing it the whole time, but we drove up back to Isabelle County to bury him next to my dad.

[00:38:13]And I'm in the car with my husband and we pull in and everybody's around the grave site and I just screamed bloody murder. I didn't, you know, you're lowering your child into the ground like what the [ __ ] [snorts] I'm just screaming in the car and my oldest son, Bailey, pushes everyone out of the way. He's like, "Let me get to my mom." And he grabbed me. He goes, "Come on, mom. I got you."

[00:38:42]And I screamed and screamed the whole time they lowered him down. I haven't been back. I can't [snorts] I I get to talk to him whenever I want.

[00:38:53]I just I can't I can't go there.

[00:38:57]It's too hard. [laughter] Of course it is.

[00:38:59]>> Yeah.

[00:39:01]He gets lots of visitors, so everybody leaves orange golf balls.

[00:39:06][snorts and laughter] And well, we have a memorial down by our green, the hole we live on [snorts] where people are leaving golf balls there now too from the course.

[00:39:17]>> Yeah. It's so crazy. A little He was almost seven and how many lives he touched.

[00:39:23]>> Yes.

[00:39:24]>> How many people showed up and just It was amazing.

[00:39:29]Still is. I'm going to honor him as much in his death as I did in his life.

[00:39:34]>> Absolutely.

[00:39:36]Absolutely.

[00:39:37]This is the world's and I I told myself after this happened, this has to be the absolute worst thing that could ever happen to a human being.

[00:39:46]>> It absolutely [snorts] is.

[00:39:47]>> But then I met Hope and she lost both of hers.

[00:39:51]>> Yeah.

[00:39:51]>> And I was blown away. Like we had both been on like Mother Like Murder podcast >> and they put us in touch with each other and we were doing a Zoom meeting and Hopes had Philicide and I was like I put my phone down and I sidebar like Googled it. I had to Google it and it's what happened to my son.

[00:40:11]>> Yeah.

[00:40:11]>> That's how much we don't know what's happening, >> right?

[00:40:14]>> And it's bad. It's bad. The the numbers aren't even near what's really happening.

[00:40:19]>> It is coming out a lot more in the news and everything else. It's like it's getting just getting worse and worse, >> right? There were three men last week that um murdered their entire families in the United States.

[00:40:30]>> God.

[00:40:31]>> So, right now the philicide numbers state uh [snorts] 5 to 600 a year. Well, there's no even remotely close because it's mclassified. So, you remember did you see the Louisiana shooting the eight children?

[00:40:47]>> Yes.

[00:40:48]>> Not once was philicide used.

[00:40:49]>> I think that was right before Hope came on. Hope was on. Yep.

[00:40:53]>> They never used it. They said it was a domestic incident >> and then Rowan was a murder suicide for a very long time until they filed him a filicside. So all these mclassifications >> Yeah.

[00:41:06]>> are not giving us the right numbers.

[00:41:07]>> Right.

[00:41:08]>> So I created Rowan's Promise. It's a filicside tracker. So it will keep in real time the numbers on a virtual map and show us attempted filicide and philicide numbers. So, what can we do with those numbers? We legislators look at numbers.

[00:41:26]>> Uh we can do research off those numbers.

[00:41:29]We can see, okay, there's a lot in this area. What's going on there? What are they not being educated about kind of thing, >> right?

[00:41:36]>> University of Michigan just picked it up. Their students are going to create it for us now.

[00:41:41]>> Stop. I know. [laughter] >> Stop. I know.

[00:41:46]>> Oh my god, that's amazing. [laughter] Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. It's So now I've started um a nonprofit, the Rowan Project, and that's what we're doing.

[00:42:00]We're fighting philicide, and we're making philicide awareness top priority.

[00:42:04]It is the biggest silent epidemic, taking our children that no one even knows about.

[00:42:09]>> I didn't. And it happened to my son, >> right?

[00:42:12]>> So that's my purpose now with hope.

[00:42:16]>> Well, you guys are both powerhouses. I can tell 100%.

[00:42:21]>> Yeah. Well, we fall afterwards, but we get back up.

[00:42:24]>> Yeah.

[00:42:25]>> It's tough. It is. I I check on her all the time. We both had a really big week last week.

[00:42:30]>> Yes. Yes. Talk about that a little bit if you want.

[00:42:33]>> So, my House representatives, so House Representative Jerry Nyer out of Isabella County and Angela Riggs, she's a tiny tyrant, man. You don't mess with this woman. Like, she's tough. They reached out. Angela reached out to me within days of losing Rowan. Of course, I was a mess and couldn't Yeah. Um Jerry met with my husband and I within a week and a half, probably two weeks, I think, to talk with us and whatnot. Well, when I met with Angela months later, once I could finally form a sentence, >> she was like, "What do you want to work on first after hearing what you just heard?" I go, "The Amber Alert system.

[00:43:14]It's not been amended in almost 30 years and the criteria is so gosh darn tight, >> right?

[00:43:19]>> Why a missing child is a missing child?

[00:43:22]Like >> giving them way too much opportunity and time there.

[00:43:25]>> 52 hours when was missing. 52.

[00:43:29]Those people wouldn't wait 5 minutes.

[00:43:32]And I know every parents had that jump scare of you're out at a grocery store or something. Oh, where's my kid?

[00:43:37]>> Right.

[00:43:38]>> Imagine living with that for 52 hours.

[00:43:40]>> Mhm.

[00:43:40]>> I don't want anyone else to go through that. Right. So Rowan's Act is in the Senate now. It's passed the House and the Senate. Only one no vote out of and it's just waiting to go to the governor's desk. And that was last week it passed the Senate. And the next day, Hopes Alec and Lydia Act to um educate on course of control, mental, emotional abuse, everything like that passed the next day. [laughter] >> Yes.

[00:44:09]>> I told her a long time ago. I'm like, we're going to celebrate at the same time. You know that, right?

[00:44:14]>> But like, >> you did.

[00:44:15]>> And we did. Yeah.

[00:44:17]>> Yes. That's >> something so beautiful out of something that's so horrific.

[00:44:23]>> But it it t like [gasps] we stood my husband and I at the House floor like 104 House representatives.

[00:44:32]They introduced us on the House floor last fall. And so the the speaker asked us to stand. All of the reps stood up clapping and cheering for us and we were like, "What the heck?" Like blown away.

[00:44:46]Yeah.

[00:44:46]>> And so last week at the Senate, they asked us to rise and all those senators stood up, not one single note, applauding us. And it's it's this huge win, right?

[00:44:59]>> But it's such a gut punch. Like the next day, like I check in with Hope. I'm like, "How you doing?" I'm like, "Are you nestled in?" She's like, "Yeah."

[00:45:07]Like we kind of cocoon and >> just got to have a few days to ourselves because >> our our children had to die for this to happen, >> right? Exactly.

[00:45:15]>> That sucks.

[00:45:16]>> Yeah. And I'm sure all that goes through your head is my god, I wish this would have been >> Why wasn't it >> active when it Yeah. Why?

[00:45:24]>> Because Hope and I weren't out there yet doing what we need to do. And here's the thing, like not that I don't think we're just this anomaly of this special type of person. Well, >> we we're we're really good moms >> is what I am thinking of us. Like I know the other moms that I've been watching, Whitney Decker, um there was a mom out of Ohio. Her little boy Ren, she lost Ren and her seven-month-old. Ren could be a twin of Rowan. Like, and it wasn't that long ago. It takes us a while to come out and be able to speak.

[00:46:00]>> Of course, >> if ever.

[00:46:02]>> Yeah. Like doing something like this gives me a heaven hug every time I move a little bit forward and go, "Okay, Rowan, your story's out there more.

[00:46:10]>> Okay, you're saving more lives."

[00:46:12]>> It just through the Rowan Project, we've actually helped save 12 children so far and we've not been running for up and running for about a year. It'll be a year in September.

[00:46:22]>> It's amazing.

[00:46:23]>> Two twins out of Texas.

[00:46:26]>> Yes.

[00:46:27]>> Really?

[00:46:27]>> Yeah. Yeah. That was a good win. And we get we get pictures of them at holidays.

[00:46:33]>> And the K like Christmas, they're in their matching pajamas. It's it it helps. Christmas wasn't so hard this year cuz I got pictures of these kids that we've helped.

[00:46:44]>> In those individual cases, like we get sucked into them, my team and I. And a lot of the times I'm like, "Okay guys, I got to tap out."

[00:46:51]>> Yeah.

[00:46:51]>> Like someone take this one. It gets it's hard. Like your job, you sit and listen to this stuff. you know, >> I'm more the legislative change. I want to push forward Rowan's promise.

[00:47:05]>> We're um launching a philicide awareness campaign that hope will travel with us also and we'll kind of like Charlie Kirk around the country and educate people on philicide, courts, judges, everything that needs to know about this >> because man, wow, the two of you together that that's Crazy powerful.

[00:47:28]>> It is. It is.

[00:47:30]>> It is. We are.

[00:47:31]>> But even the fact that you're able to sit here and share his story and like what you guys have been through. It has not been that long, girl.

[00:47:39]>> I know.

[00:47:39]>> 2 years is not >> I know.

[00:47:42]>> And we're not even there yet.

[00:47:43]>> No.

[00:47:44]>> Like that that's built on your love for him all the way because >> Oh, yeah.

[00:47:50]>> I don't know many people that could do that.

[00:47:53]>> You're one. you're just mess.

[00:47:57]>> And my pastor, like I go to therapy every week still. And my pastor, I see him at least once a month. And when we first started this grief journey together, he's like, "Listen, tell me the things that you foresee that you want to do." And I told him my plan. He goes, "Okay, but I want you to take this at a slow pace. I don't want you to burn through it and get to the end and go, "Now what?" And so then the last time a couple times ago I met with him, he's like, "So you're making me look bad in front of my elders cuz you're not slowing down. You're just going because I live with it all day long thinking, >> okay, what can I do to make this a bigger thing?"

[00:48:37]>> Yes.

[00:48:38]>> Um we want philicide awareness month taken to DC. That will give us such a platform. Yes.

[00:48:44]>> So people know like this is huge.

[00:48:47]children are at the biggest risk during um separation or child custody like in Rowan's case and with Hope.

[00:48:55]>> Yeah.

[00:48:56]>> And I don't know if Hope told you this, but in talking to her and I, both of them, Brock and the man that did this around were engineers.

[00:49:07]>> Oh, I did know he was one. Yes.

[00:49:09]Apparently, she said her therapist told her that it and engineers are the highest for murder and possible suic I know. So, y'all out there.

[00:49:19]>> I know. [laughter] >> We know they're socially awkward, but head.

[00:49:22]>> Yeah.

[00:49:24]>> Yeah.

[00:49:24]>> Sorry, guys. [laughter] >> Not all, but weird, right?

[00:49:28]>> Yeah.

[00:49:30]>> It just He was very recluse.

[00:49:31]>> I wonder if Yeah. I was just going to say I wonder if it's because they're so they're deep thinkers and analytical and like >> Yes.

[00:49:38]Wow.

[00:49:39]>> Yep. Yep. He wasn't close with his family. Um he just like I remember the one time, you know, the bus thing that I told you.

[00:49:49]>> Well, the one time Rowan got out of the car getting dropped off the summer before he died >> and he came running in and I hugged him and I'm like, "Who is that dropping you off?" He's like, "My dad's sister." I'm like, "You mean your aunt?" And he goes, "What?" I'm like, "Well, what's her name?" He goes, "I don't know."

[00:50:07]He didn't know him.

[00:50:11]>> It's, you know, he's he's missed really bad. My My daughter struggles.

[00:50:15]>> I bet.

[00:50:16]>> That was [ __ ] She wears my face and has my voice, so she was second mom to him.

[00:50:21]>> Oh, yeah. Because your kids are older.

[00:50:24]>> Mhm. My oldest son, >> it's got to be crushing for them. God.

[00:50:28]>> Yeah. Well, my oldest son just became a dad and since then he's like [snorts] he's going to feel that even more. It hits him harder. Yeah. He's like, cuz you don't know that love until you're a parent. Yes.

[00:50:41]>> And he's like, I can't even believe. And he had a son.

[00:50:45]>> He's like, I can't believe he could do this to my brother.

[00:50:49]>> Right.

[00:50:49]>> My youngest, Aiden. He's 21. Oh, [laughter] he's he's handling it with not the greatest of ways. He's got a lot of anger.

[00:51:00]>> His birthday's the day before Rowan's.

[00:51:03]>> Oh. So, we buried him that year on his birthday. So, he's like, "Mom, my my birthday's ruined forever." I'm like, "You said that when he was going to be born, [laughter] and he wasn't wrong." He was 18, turning 18 and having a 5-year-old's birthday party with him. He's like, "I told you this [laughter] is crap." Like, sorry.

[00:51:25]>> We used to get together so much more often before this. I think that's the a parent's best outcome in life and best dream is your grown children coming to see you >> and we're they're not as much but we're getting back to it. We're trying.

[00:51:41]>> Well, you guys are in the same house I'm assuming.

[00:51:43]>> Uh just Bryson, >> but when he passed so it might be hard for them.

[00:51:48]>> Those kids were grown.

[00:51:49]>> They were Oh, yeah.

[00:51:50]>> But they always saw him at your house, right?

[00:51:53]>> Yeah.

[00:51:54]>> I I thought that too. Yeah. like them coming home and all those memories >> that it's hard.

[00:51:59]>> Yeah.

[00:51:59]>> They're all going to have to process that like separately.

[00:52:02]>> Hear that? We need to sell the house, honey. [laughter] >> Mama needs a new house. Okay.

[00:52:07]>> With a pool.

[00:52:09]>> Then they'll come.

[00:52:10]>> Yes.

[00:52:10]>> Um No, we've been doing a lot of work with the Rome project. Um love it.

[00:52:16]>> We have our big investor meeting, our first one coming up in a few weeks. I'm working my butt off for it. The U of M thing. Um, we start we have a meeting next week with the Petitos. We are creating the a national domestic violence registry. [laughter] >> It's perfect.

[00:52:33]>> I know, right?

[00:52:34]>> That's perfect, >> isn't it? Great.

[00:52:36]>> They just passed it in in Tennessee.

[00:52:40]>> Um, but the only thing I don't like about it Yeah, because it's like after their first one or something like that.

[00:52:48]I gota I don't remember how the bill reads exactly. Do you realize if you intentionally hurt livestock or an animal on purpose, it's an instant felony? But with a human being in your home, you get three shots and that it's a misdemeanor until it's a felony. And 90% of the time, the victim doesn't want to testify. They plead out >> or they drop the charges.

[00:53:10]>> Yeah. I mean, I So, my co-founder, Heidi Britain, shout out, [laughter] and one of my best friends, I've known her for 30 years, we actually created the DV registry in 2015.

[00:53:22]And it's because we knew of a case where there were nine women, one perpetrator.

[00:53:27]>> Wow.

[00:53:28]>> And after a [snorts] decade and a half, he was finally facing a felony.

[00:53:34]But he they weren't charging him with that in that um county because each counties in Michigan weren't talking. So within one phone call, don't know who did that. [laughter] He was facing a felony.

[00:53:46]>> Good.

[00:53:47]>> And he finally went to jail for it.

[00:53:49]>> Good.

[00:53:50]>> But he got four months.

[00:53:51]>> Oh god. What is that?

[00:53:53]>> I know, right?

[00:53:54]>> That's a little vacation.

[00:53:55]>> Nine women. Nine. So then he >> That's why they don't give a [ __ ] because they get away with it. Yes. They they get away with it over and over and over and over.

[00:54:04]>> But the root cause of philicide is domestic violence. Cuz look, you have a relationship here. There's children here.

[00:54:10]>> Yeah.

[00:54:10]>> Victim gets away. Where's that leave those kids?

[00:54:13]>> Yeah.

[00:54:14]>> With that abuser. And that abuser will find every gap in all the systems to get to their victim still. And if it makes going through those children and the ultimate sacrifice of killing them, >> they're proving this country that they're going to do it.

[00:54:27]>> Yeah.

[00:54:28]>> No matter what.

[00:54:28]>> Yes. I sat in a room with it was a Michigan advocacy here uh meeting it's monthly with the FBI to my left, Homeland Security over here, the ATF across from me and I was like [laughter] my husband and I we walking into this.

[00:54:45]I'm like how do we even get into this meeting? He's like I don't know. I thought you did this. I'm like are we supposed to do anything? And he's like I don't know. And we walk in there and the lady's like here go ahead and take a seat at the front so you for your presentation. And I'm like, "Shit."

[00:54:59][laughter] >> I guess I was supposed to do something.

[00:55:03]>> The eyes sitting right there. And I was like, "Oh, shit." [laughter] Okay.

[00:55:07]>> But you killed it. I did.

[00:55:08]>> Oh, sure. Yes.

[00:55:09]>> And I pointed at him. I go, "I see where your gaps are. I see where your gaps are. And I see where yours are. Let's work on this."

[00:55:16]>> Mhm.

[00:55:17]>> I got invited back. [laughter] >> Good. Good. I got emails from them before I even left the building.

[00:55:23]>> Good.

[00:55:23]>> So, we're doing the good work. We're fighting hard. Are they going to start?

[00:55:29]This is just what I hope. Geez. Like somebody needs to be accountable for that. Like you're all the nos you got.

[00:55:36]Well, you're just trying to protect your son.

[00:55:39]Are they or are they just never going to be held accountable for making >> date of death for my son?

[00:55:46][snorts] >> There's no no date. corner couldn't say when because if that date was known, then that 52 hours, somebody's got to be held liable, right?

[00:56:00]I actually called her up the corner and I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. I can't I don't know a date to put on my son's headstone." I'm like, "What about the temperature of the body?" She goes, "That's not a thing." I go, "So you mean it's not a thing?"

[00:56:16]>> Mhm.

[00:56:17]So my husband has hours and hours of body cam footage. I've only seen very little. I don't watch a lot, >> but on one of the body cams, the guys like he they barely had Rick Mortise in their fingers and toes. They had only been dead six to eight hours.

[00:56:35]>> My god.

[00:56:36]>> They were He was alive. Them that night going out there in that car with the dome light on, he was right there. He was right there.

[00:56:45]Yes. You'll there's no comment from any of them. Eric James is Can I say his name?

[00:56:53]>> Say whatever you want.

[00:56:54]>> Judge Eric James is still sitting the bench. He's very hated.

[00:57:00]>> I could imagine his sister actually the day that I found out my son died called my phone cuz I knew her. I grew up in the area.

[00:57:11]We we went to college together.

[00:57:15]um complaining and upset because her brother was getting death threats. At least he's alive to get him.

[00:57:21]>> Exactly.

[00:57:22]>> He gave my son a death sentence.

[00:57:24]>> Yes.

[00:57:26]>> Wow.

[00:57:26]>> He was going to revisit the emergency exparte motion at 72 hours missing when he denied it on day two. Two more days.

[00:57:37]What the [laughter] >> It just doesn't even make sense. Like we can and we can sit here and say this all day long, but holy [ __ ] >> this has to change.

[00:57:49]>> And like I said, >> it's too much, >> right? So Rowan's promise, what what those numbers would find if there's an escalated amount of numbers of deaths in Oh, I don't know, Isabelle County.

[00:58:00]>> Let's go in there. Let's see who's [ __ ] up. Y >> Okay, Isabella County Sheriff's, you're stupid.

[00:58:06]>> Mhm.

[00:58:07]>> Like they they were making fun of me.

[00:58:11]I had a 30-year career, no record, full employed, married, Christian. Whether that mattered to them or not, we were good people. We are.

[00:58:23]>> Does he see you?

[00:58:24]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> It's Oh, God. I'm so sorry.

[00:58:29]>> That was our first year of marriage.

[00:58:31][sighs] >> Yeah.

[00:58:34]Yeah. He's still there. [laughter] >> He loves you. That's for sure. It's not been easy. It's not. I mean, he's mourning him, too.

[00:58:43]>> For any of you. Yeah.

[00:58:44]>> Yeah. He taught him how to golf. He taught him everything.

[00:58:50]>> Yeah. He would get in fights with my husband because Rowan slept with mama all the It was just him and I cuz my older kids were grown.

[00:59:00]>> Well, then I get married. [laughter] He'd drag his blanket into the room and at the edge of the bed, he'd be staring at Ryan like this. Like what are you doing?

[00:59:09]>> And then he'd slink up between us. He'd slink up right here. He's like, "Mama back tickles." I'm like, "Okay, [laughter] >> but he'd be giving Brian a dirty." A [gasps] [snorts] >> there's lots of good to remember about him.

[00:59:25]>> Oh god. So much.

[00:59:27]>> It's just >> But that's also painful.

[00:59:29]>> So much. Um, I mean, I sat there thinking to myself right the other day, like, oo, he'd be getting his ugly big people teeth in right now. [laughter] What would his hair I was going to let him grow his hair out finally >> cuz he had curls. He just >> He'd shave them all the time.

[00:59:48]>> Yeah. God.

[00:59:48]>> Yeah.

[00:59:49]>> And not a note, >> huh?

[00:59:51]>> Did he leave a note or anything?

[00:59:53]>> No, he actually burned his laptop, those five cell phones, and an iPad, I think.

[01:00:00]his computer. Yeah. He burned them.

[01:00:02]>> Mhm. So afterwards, we found out he owned 12 different vehicles and they were all Spanish names listed as drivers on them.

[01:00:14]>> What's that about?

[01:00:16]>> Do you have any idea?

[01:00:17]>> No. Drugs maybe.

[01:00:20]>> Wow.

[01:00:20]>> I don't know. Human trafficking.

[01:00:24]I mean >> I mean could be.

[01:00:26]>> I was one of my first worries is was he violated and he was not.

[01:00:32]>> Okay.

[01:00:32]>> He was not. I was hoping he had something like benadryil or something in his system. He didn't.

[01:00:37]>> But I I know in my heart he was sleeping.

[01:00:40]>> Okay.

[01:00:41]>> That animal that not even that piece of [ __ ] >> shot him from the back of the head with a high compressed air rifle. My husband's going to [ __ ] me out cuz I always get it wrong. You can buy it off of Amazon. He didn't have to get checked for it.

[01:01:01]It's shown on the internet as killing big game. There's a water buffalo sitting next to it, but you can go online and get it.

[01:01:09]>> Oh my god.

[01:01:10]>> And it killed my son.

[01:01:12]>> Oh my god. I'm so sorry, Brandy.

[01:01:16]>> Yeah, me too.

[01:01:17]>> I hate even saying that. It's just >> Well, what else? What else do you say?

[01:01:21]Like especially with this This is a pain I I pray to God. I never I've had my own chair of pain or whatever, but this this is I I won't even say it out loud because I'm that's >> Oh, I couldn't either. I live with that fear. Like you'd see a Tik Tok video and I'd skim past it really fast and be like, "Dear God, no."

[01:01:40]>> Yes.

[01:01:41]>> And now I live it. I can't escape it.

[01:01:43]It's >> I mean, it's so weird grief.

[01:01:48]>> Like you do you negotiate in your head.

[01:01:51]You're like, "Okay, if we do this, he'll come back. If if if we just try this, >> that that's so crazy, but it happens."

[01:01:58]And >> I I know I spent a lot of days where I would just sleep.

[01:02:05]>> I'd wake up, take another sleeping pill, and I know my husband had his dad cuz he had to go back to work. His husband came to finish the work on our back deck and was just or so my father-in-law, >> he was there just working. you know, someone's there. Yeah.

[01:02:23]>> Yeah.

[01:02:24]>> Well, [ __ ] Every time you wake up, you're hoping that this isn't your reality. Who wouldn't want to sleep?

[01:02:30]>> So, Rowan would like get up out of his bed. His room was right across the hall from hers. And he'd take his blanket like um Superman and fly and smack right into the side of the bed and then jump in cuz that's how I know he's awake.

[01:02:42]Well, our big old dog would lay down and hit the bed and I'd wake up in a second and be like, "And no. It's there was a long time of like waking up and you know you have those blissful few seconds of this isn't real.

[01:02:58]>> Yeah.

[01:02:58]>> Not anymore. Like I know I know um I work a lot with my therapist still my faith.

[01:03:06]>> Mhm.

[01:03:07]>> Hope my friends work. The work I do it helps. It helps.

[01:03:14]>> I'm so glad that you and Hope have each other. Oh, >> cuz she's so special too. like in every way.

[01:03:20]>> Everything that happened to her too, >> it's happening across the country. Yes.

[01:03:24]And >> you know, and she and I agree on this as so much. It's our faith that's brought us together. God put us together to do this together.

[01:03:33]>> And she's incredible.

[01:03:35]>> Yeah. And she literally only lives two hours away from me now.

[01:03:39]>> And I only see her when we're on the road.

[01:03:41]>> Yeah. [laughter] Well, I'm so thankful that you came and shared Rowan's story because >> Thanks for having me. Thanks for giving me a platform for people to know about him.

[01:03:53]>> Yes. It's all you keep doing. Keep talking about him.

[01:03:57]>> Yeah.

[01:03:57]>> And now after we're done, I'm going to probably know everything about him, too, because I'll be looking at all your stuff [laughter] now.

[01:04:03]>> It's tough. It's tough.