Epstein's Brother Speaks Out: "He Was Murdered"

Added: 2026-06-06

[00:00:00]This begins in 2008 with one of the weirdest non-prosecution agreements I've ever heard of. So, let's pause right here and get some perspective that is rarely heard.

[00:00:11]From Epstein's side through his brother.

[00:00:16]And a brother who has a lot of questions and does not believe what the government is putting out about his brother or about what it knows or about why it doesn't know more. Okay? Uh and Mark Epstein is Jeffrey's brother and he joins us now to discuss what he believes remains to be seen.

[00:00:38]Do I have you, Mark?

[00:00:40]>> Yeah, I'm on, Chris. Hi, how are you doing?

[00:00:42]>> Good. Thank you for taking the opportunity.

[00:00:45]Um 2008, let's start there.

[00:00:48]When you heard about the non-prosecution agreement and where it started with the feds and where it ended, did you ever get an explanation for how your brother went from such relatively deep water to a pretty survivable deal?

[00:01:03]>> No, Chris, I I have no information on that. I wasn't involved with any of that. I knew he got uh you know, he spent a year in jail.

[00:01:12]He got time off uh for good behavior or whatever, but I wasn't involved. So, I really don't have anything to add to that. The only thing I'm interested in speaking about is the fact that Jeffrey was murdered. He did not commit suicide.

[00:01:25]>> Okay. So, let's discuss that uh because it is one of the remaining vexing questions that I'm laying out laying out for people uh in this conversation that we're having. So, the DOJ looked at it. The Inspector General looked at it. The FBI looked at it. And they all said, "Misfeasance, yes, they did a lousy job. Malfeasance, a little bit. They falsified records and they fell asleep and didn't do their checks. But no proof of deleted video, no proof of intentional allowing of anyone in the cell, no proof of homicide.

[00:02:01]>> Chris, they did not look into the death.

[00:02:04]They looked into all the screw-ups in the prison, as you said, and other things like that. They did not look into the death. When the autopsy was done, the two pathologists that were there, Dr. Christine Roman, who is the city pathologist, who was charged with doing the autopsy, and Dr. Baden, who was there on my behalf, they came out of the autopsy both saying they would not call it a suicide because because it looked too much like a homicide.

[00:02:32]Plain and simple. On the initial death certificate we got that day in order to claim the body, the cause of death said pending further study. It did not say suicide. They would not call it suicide.

[00:02:43]I mean, saying pending further study doesn't mean it was something else, but it does mean it they don't think it was a suicide. Now, nobody has more experience with prison deaths than Dr. Baden. I feel very confident in saying that. He's been on a special commission for >> Dr. Michael Baden is a big, bold-faced name in the forensics business. I have dealt with him many times over the years. You are correct. However, especially in an MC >> Let me stop you. However, nothing, okay?

[00:03:14]What happened was every pathologist I've spoken to has said when an initial death certificate says pending further study, you don't get an answer for weeks because something's being studied. Okay?

[00:03:27]In this particular case, a few days later, Barbara Sampson, who was the chief medical examiner, she calls it a suicide. And I said this before, Barbara Sampson was not at the autopsy. Barbara Sampson did not see Jeffrey's body.

[00:03:45]Also, at that time, Bill Barr, the Attorney General, came out and made the asinine statement that he said that nobody that he personally watched the video tape that you know, from outside the tier and he saw that nobody went in or out of the tier and that convinced him it was a suicide. When I heard that and I've said this before, I thought he's either the dumbest [ __ ] on the planet or part of a cover-up. Okay, because one he completely ignored the fact that maybe somebody already on the tier could have harmed Jeff without having to go in come from the tier. There were about a dozen other prisoners on that tier. I was told months after the death that cell doors were left unlocked on that tier. I don't know whose cell doors or how many, but that's what I was told by a reliable source. Now, when the when they released the video tape last year number one, you can see that you cannot see the door to the tier.

[00:04:44]So, when Bill Barr said he saw that nobody went in or out of the tier, just what the hell was he talking about?

[00:04:50]Also, in that same video tape in the middle of the night, we see that orange figure going up the staircase to the tier and that staircase only leads to that tier. So, he said nobody went in or out of the tier and it's been shown many times because the way the camera was situated, 100 people could have gone into and left from that tier without being caught by that camera. So, either he's the dumbest [ __ ] on the planet or he's part of the cover-up. Also, in his recent congressional testimony under oath when he was asked about Baden's comment, Dr. Baden's comment that he thought it was more a homicide than a suicide, he said Baden came after the fact.

[00:05:30]That's not true. He knew Baden was there for the entire time. I think he perjured himself. Dr. Sampson, who claimed it was a suicide, she came after the fact because she never saw the body. Now, what's been happening the last few months, a group of independent pathologists not I contacted by me. They actually contacted me. I gave them all the autopsy results and the photographs and the x-rays, medical records, and they've been doing the extensive study that should have been done six and a half years ago that when it said you know, pending further study. They've been doing that study. They have conclusively figured out that Jeffrey could not have committed suicide. Okay, for a number of reasons, some of which I've stated in the past. The report that they put together is will be out shortly. It's being peer-reviewed by a scientific publication that will that will issue this report. But because they know that this is very groundbreaking because this eliminates the possibility that Jeffrey committed suicide, they're you know, making sure all the T's are crossed and all the I's are dotted and it's being peer-reviewed by a number of reviewers before it's being released. So >> What do you make of the Now, what I was going to say to you um and I get your defensiveness on the on this. If I were you, I'd be defensive about it also. It's my brother. It would be, you know, it's your brother.

[00:06:51]>> I'm not I'm not being defensive. I'm being objective.

[00:06:54]>> Well, I'm objective is let me make my point. That's being objective, right?

[00:06:58]Jumping the point and saying but nothing is not being objective. Um and here's the point. When they say further study, what they say in the report and they did go through the autopsy and they did go the through the circumstances around it in two different reports.

[00:07:12]They say that the further study was some of the broken bones in the neck and whether that was consistent or not, but the initial finding of ligature marks uh and the surrounding circumstances led to believe it was a suicide.

[00:07:27]>> during the autopsy itself.

[00:07:29]>> I know they were.

[00:07:31]I know I know they were, but I'm saying in the report, see, don't confuse my reporting with an opinion, okay? I'm not saying I think this is what it was. What they say it was was based on that. Now, could that be [ __ ] Yes. Yes, it could. Uh everything you're saying could it be true? Yeah, most of it could absolutely be true. So, it leads us to the same place.

[00:07:55]If he were not a victim of his own hand, why do you think somebody would have killed your brother? And has what we've seen with the Trump administration make you believe that more or less?

[00:08:09]>> Well, uh Look, there there's four ways to die, okay? There's suicide, there's natural causes. We know Jeff didn't die of natural causes. There's an accidental death, you know, we know Jeff wasn't hit by a bus. And then there's homicide.

[00:08:22]>> The latest reporting is that his old cellmate, uh who had a physical altercation with your brother, said that uh he found a suicide note. Uh what do you make of that note?

[00:08:35]>> Well, first of all, I think the timing of this is very interesting. The government The DOJ's aware that this report that I'm referring to is coming out because I mentioned this before and they're aware.

[00:08:44]Uh and I think they're just trying to sow doubt on it. I don't believe the note is real. And and let me let me say this as they say in court, assuming all window, let's assume the note was real.

[00:08:54]It doesn't matter because the study of the autopsy shows that Jeffrey could not have committed suicide.

[00:09:03]>> So, it doesn't Why could he Why could he not have committed suicide? How do you understand it?

[00:09:08]>> Okay. Well, first, there's a number of things that were obvious pretty immediately afterwards. Number one, the mark that was left on Jeffrey's neck, that's embedded in his neck, okay? Is not the mark you would get from hanging.

[00:09:20]You know, for four summer years, we were trying to find out what position Jeffrey was in when he was found. We couldn't find that out until the DOJ report came out. I think it was the end of 2023.

[00:09:31]They said he was in a seated position with his legs extended in front of him.

[00:09:36]It's on page 70-something. It's the report.

[00:09:38]>> And he said he was hanging from the top bunk and his buttocks was an inch and an inch and a half off the ground, which means the bulk of his body weight was hanging by the neck. Okay, if that's the way he was really hanging, the mark on his neck would have been a lot higher up under his jaw and going up behind his ears. You know, as a man when you were a kid, you had a necktie, you would hold a necktie up behind your head and make it look like you were hanging. All kids do that with their ties. You know, that goes up behind your ears. It doesn't go straight back.

[00:10:06]You know, like the middle of your neck.

[00:10:08]I mean, that's one of the reasons. You know, two, there's other bruises on Jeffrey's body, injuries, that were basically ignored that the team investigating the autopsy had taken in turn. There's a big bruise on Jeffrey's back, on his upper [snorts] shoulder near his neck, as if somebody's fist was pushing in while they were strangling him with something. Okay.

[00:10:28]Also, you know, when they found Jeffrey, if he was dead for at least two hours.

[00:10:34]They know that because the groove that stayed in his neck, that thing had to be on his neck for a couple of hours. If If you strangle somebody with a rope and just let him lay there dead, their neck will flatten out because the skin is still supple, there's cell pressure. You know, you may have an abrasion on the skin, there may be a mark on the skin, >> Mhm.

[00:10:54]>> that groove. That's when like rigor mortis starts setting in and the skin starts to >> You know, so they know he was dead for two hours. [snorts] So, the question becomes, why did they intubate him?

[00:11:03]Because there's a picture when they were taking him out of the prison to go to the hospital, he's on a gurney and they're like squeezing the air balloon to try to >> Mhm.

[00:11:11]>> Now, these are trained medical professionals, right? They know this guy was dead. He was dead for at least two hours. They tried to They were going to use a defibrillator on him. The defibrillator says, "Don't waste Basically, don't waste your time." I mean, he was clearly dead for hours. So, why the charade of trying to make it look like he was >> Well, let's let's extend your own question. You have Kash Patel and Dan Bongino who come in with a legacy, a pedigree of questioning the curiousness of what happened to your brother specifically with his death. You then have Trump who's as much a fan of a conspiracy theory as anybody else.

[00:11:48]Um why would they cover up something that they wanted to be true before they got into power?

[00:11:54]>> Well, cuz that they maybe they want to keep their position of power. Look, also I mentioned Bill Barr in his congressional Kash Patel in his recent congressional testimony when he was questioned about this, he said and I I actually laughed out loud. He said, "You know it's suicide when you see one."

[00:12:11]Now, I don't know if he was drunk that day because I thought how many suicides has this [ __ ] actually seen?

[00:12:17]What he didn't he wasn't there. He didn't see the crime scene. He didn't see Jeff's body. So, what makes him an expert to state you know it's suicide when you see one? He didn't see anything here. So, why would he make a statement like that? Another interesting fact about that because there's so much information.

[00:12:33]Uh Dr. Kristin Roman who actually did the autopsy, it was her autopsy. In her testimony she was questioned after it, okay? She stated that she was told not to take DNA evidence and she was prohibited from going to the crime scene.

[00:12:50]That's highly unusual. The medical examiner's office usually goes to the crime scene to see what took place and to help figure out what happened. She was precluded. She was prohibited from going to the crime scene.

[00:13:01]>> So, what last >> Last thing for you on this, Mark.

[00:13:05]Watching what has unfolded with the Trump administration, how is it informed your overall understanding of what this is about?

[00:13:15]>> Well, I'm disappointed in this administration because I think it's pretty obvious to everybody how just how corrupt it is.

[00:13:21]You know, and and would you know, why are these people stating what's obviously not true. Bill Bar's statement about you know, seeing that nobody went in or out of the tier. When he said that, it makes you believe he could see the door to the tier clearly and nobody went in or out.

[00:13:39]And then the video tape, the recent video tape shows you don't see the door the the door and it's easy for like you said, 100 people could have walked in and out of that door by just staying to the right hand side of the stairs, you know? So, I don't see how that statement could have been made unless it was part of a cover-up or he was just really that stupid, which I don't think he is.

[00:14:01]>> He's not a stupid man. But Mark Epstein, neither are you and you're a concerned brother.

[00:14:05]Uh, and for the audiences uh, edification, if you haven't uh, heard this before, Mark had nothing to do uh, with his brother or the brother's allegations and in fact, uh, while he cares very much about this, understandably so, he was not particularly close to his brother in terms of knowing about his lifestyle and knowing what the allegations are about his brother. Uh, he came to this with somewhat fresh eyes along with the rest of us in 2019. So, uh, Mark, I appreciate your pursuit of getting these answers and thank you for letting me be a part of it.

[00:14:36]>> Okay. Thank you.