This video provides a sharp logical critique of the contradiction between a grieving deity and the promise of a tearless heaven. It effectively exposes how traditional theological attributes often collide with the concept of eternal perfection.
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I Found a New Problem with the Christian God | The One Tear Left in HeavenAdded:
I'm going to ask you to stick with me on this one because we're doing a real time pivot. I've been here for the last 20 minutes filming a different episode that I thought was going to come out today for Mother's Day. And I had a new thought, a thought I've never thought of before about the Christian God, assuming he were real. And I want to share it with you, but I want to try to make it its own episode here. And you let me know if this is an original thought or if you've ever heard anyone else discuss it. We're going to get to it here at the end, but I need to build the case. I'll tell you how it started. I sat down to do kind of a topical episode since it's Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day, by the way. And on this day, when we celebrate moms and we think about the love between a parent and a child, I wanted to relate that to the main problem that I have with heaven. Almost all of you have seen my seven problems with heaven video, but it's the last problem that is the one that is the most serious to me and the one that I don't think there is any defense for at all. So, we're going to talk about that again. I'm not going to rehash it entirely, but I do want to restate it so that we have it as a base.
Then there's a second problem, which is that of a perfect God that has negative emotions. We've also done an episode on that. So, same thing. We're not going to completely redo it, but I want to restate a few things there because with these two pieces together, I think we get a brand new issue for this God that I don't see how one can work around. So, let's start building our case. I think we need to start with God and his emotions. Christians claim so many things about their God. They claim that he is perfect. They claim that he is complete, that he is self-sufficient, that he is immutable, that he is omnisient, that he is omnipotent, and that he lacks nothing. But then we have a multitude of verses where this God experiences negative emotions. Again, see that video for the full list. But this is a God who regrets. Like in Genesis 6:6, it says that he was sorry that he made mankind.
And furthermore, that it grieved his heart. That is a God who is feeling sorrow. Such sorrow that he wishes he had never even done it. Now, it's not the first time I've said it, but we could stop right there, six chapters into the first book of the Bible, and you have an insane contradiction in the nature of God. If this God is omnisient and all powerful, he knew what was going to happen. He was in charge of it happening and he did it anyways. It's the stupidest thing maybe in the entire Bible. We don't talk about it enough.
But still, it's the very smallest part of today's point. And it's not the only time that this God regrets. He regrets that he made Saul king. Not that Saul became king against his wishes. He made Saul king is what he says. And he regrets it. But this makes no sense for an omnisient god. And regret and omniscience are just one example of the problem of a god that has claimed to be perfect but has these negative experiences. And it's more than just having a negative experience. It's feeling these negative things that he himself caused himself since he is the sovereign ruler of everything. You can't claim lacking nothing when it's clear he lacked foresight. But if he lacked foresight, he's not omnisient. Did he lack self-disipline to not go through with the thing he knew would turn out horribly? There's no good answer to this. It cannot be reconciled. But still, the littlest of points in addition to the regret which leads to a change of direction, right? He regrets making mankind. So, he kills them all, but then he does it again. Starts over.
He regrets that he made Saul king. He changes his mind and he now wants David to be king. David gets the anointing.
But there's another verse in the same chapter, 1st Samuel 15, now in verse 29, that says that the God of Israel will not recant or change his mind. And it goes on, for he is not immortal that he should change his mind. And yet, we do see this God recant and change his mind.
It's hard for me not to go down the rabbit hole with each of these because there's a ton of times that God did recant when he wanted to kill Moses and didn't. when he wanted to kill all of the Israelites, but Moses talks him off the ledge. It literally says, "And God relented." To say you're going to kill them all and then not is a change of mind. To relent is to recant. But it's not just the fact that God changes his mind and that he's clearly not omnisient or immutable or filled with any kind of self-control or anything like that. It's also that God can feel so terribly for a perfect being. Now, we're not to the heaven part yet, but I want you to remember that the goal of heaven for humans is perfection. And you can argue against that, but that's literally what the Bible promises. That there will be no tears, death, sorrow, or sin. It's a guarantee of what cannot happen in this perfect place because of the holiness, the goodness of God. And now that evil has finally been destroyed. You know me burning in hell forever. That's going to make sure that there's no tears, death, sorrow, or sin for you who believe the right thing. And yet this perfect God doesn't feel perfect at all and is filled with sorrow. In Psalm 78, we hear that because of all the times that Israel rebelled against him, that he was so grieved. Same thing in Isaiah 63. It grieved his Holy Spirit. In the New Testament, in Ephesians 4:30, it's a command. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God. So apparently, and many Christians actually know this, they say it all the time, you're breaking Jesus's heart with your sin. So yeah, apparently you can emotionally wound God. But how can human disobedience diminish his perfect emotional state? You could argue that it's because of his great love for us. After all, isn't a father grieved at the lesser actions of his children?
Sure, I'm a dad. The difference is I don't claim perfection. I don't claim that I'm never lacking or that I'm self- sustaining. Now here I even understand where you could try to semantically make some wiggle room that well isn't this what you would want a god of love to be able to feel less than love to appreciate love. After all that's always the argument for why suffering exists.
How could we know joy without suffering?
But how could God know joy without suffering? Do you believe he couldn't?
Do you believe the all powerful, perfectly holy entity of everything is dependent off of you, your thoughts, and your actions for their joy? Because that's what you're actually saying. And if you want to believe that about your God, great. You might even think it's beautiful. But then you can't claim the other array of attributes. They just don't go hand in hand. But we'll circle back there. Let me give you a few more examples and we'll move on to the heaven side of things. We know that God is jealous, which is one Christians always love to argue about. Oh, it's jealous in a good way, like you would be for your wife. Like, I understand the concept of jealousy, and I can be jealous for my wife. But that's not like a healthy emotion. I trust my wife. I love her so much, and I love her time when I get it.
But when I don't have it, I'm not obsessing over it. And I'm not mad or jealous as if that's some great display of love. The fact that Christians have tried to recapture the nastiness of a description of God, it's not just an attribute. He says, "My name is jealous." Also, when you see what God does out of his jealousy, which is usually murder, you can't continue to argue what a positive emotion that is.
That's the 2-year-old in the sandbox not wanting to share his toys and throwing a rock at the other kid's forehead. That's not beautiful. It's beyond immature. So, jealousy is another one. And then we could go down a two-hour rabbit hole on his anger and his wrath. And again, you can say justified anger, beautiful wrath, but those are just words. Don't you read what the Bible says? In Deuteronomy 9:8, it says, "You provoked the Lord to wrath." Now, which is it?
Are we so important to God that we can have these kinds of reactions or are we nothing? Because I hear from Christians all the time that we are so lonely, that because of the fall, we are so distant and separate from God and everything that he intended for us and the nature that he actually made us in in his image. That sin has broken that up so much. And that who are we to even register, you know, this God's ways and his thoughts are so much higher. Time is different to him. Everything is different. but you think you matter so much until they try to hit you with the love story of how Jesus personally died just for you. Again, it's whichever one works for them. But the idea that you can provoke God, which means to get God to feel a way he doesn't want to feel.
When one is provoked, they are out of control. Is this perfect God whose thoughts are so much higher than our own exactly the same as us? that when things don't go his way, when he doesn't get what he wants, when he becomes too jealous, when no one is reminding him how great he is, he gets provoked into wrath. It's petty and we all know it.
Goodness gracious. I was at the grocery store the other day with my kids and we witnessed a parent being just unbelievably awful to their small child, maybe four years old, to the point where my kids asked me about it. They recognized that this wasn't healthy. This wasn't normal.
And we know that's not healthy or normal because we expect the adult to not be able to be riled up by a child so much younger to the point where they have to take their anger out on the child.
That's exactly what we see with this god. Verse after verse after verse of his anger was now kindled after he displays his wrath. He has to get it out of his system. So, when you see a grown-up grab too forcefully the arm of their toddler out of anger, that's not a picture of control or perfection or love. So, why would it be when your perfect God does it? Cuz he does a lot more than grab someone sternly by the arm. He destroys them. He opens up the earth to swallow them. He sends down fire. He smites them. He commands to have their wives raped. He commands to have their children murdered. But we're spending too much time here. You have a God that is also pained and grieved and worried even on the good sides of emotion. In Judges 10:16, it says that God could not bear any longer to see Israel suffer. Their suffering was hurting him to the point that he couldn't take it anymore. Again, suffering that he caused them as punishment. This God is an emotional wreck. Go read Ezekiel when he paints the nations that aren't correctly adoring him as and prostitutes and has a sick fantasy of essentially them being gang raped and torn apart by men which are the other nations. That's his jealousy. That's his wrath. That's his heartbreak. That's perfection. And again, I'm not perfectly tying all of these back to all the other descriptors that we had about this God, but if we just used the lacks nothing concept that Christians attribute to their God, do not each one of these words show that God is lacking something? If God is sad, he is lacking what he desires, which is another issue. This God desires things and he's all powerful and he sees the future and then he gets mad when he doesn't get his way. It's fine if you have God that desires things and is fine when he doesn't get them. But God is not fine when he doesn't get them and he's the only one to blame. That's the problem with 100% sovereignty. If God regrets, doesn't that imply that he made a mistake? Again, lacking foresight, lacking self-control. If God grieavves, God can be harmed. That's lacking. And if this God changes emotionally, he's not immutable. He's reacting to what he's lacking. Worship, obedience, fear, these things that God wants and demands and commands. And sure, there are plenty of Christian excuses. And I don't want to turn this whole episode into how to combat those. But I will say that they're all very silly and they shoot themselves in the foot for the next time you want to claim something else about God. People will say, "Oh, these are just anthropomorphisms." The biblical writers were trying to describe God in a more human way so that we lowly humans can understand him, can understand the language better. Okay. Are you sure that's the excuse you want? What do you do with God's good emotions? Now, when it says that God loves us, does he actually love us? Can we actually know anything about this God emotionally if we had to make up attributes that don't actually exist for him so that we can comprehend him? And what good does that help with our comprehension if they're not accurate? This is what I mean about an excuse that kind of solves one thing if you don't look at it at all and immediately creates a bigger problem.
So, I won't go through all of them, but they are all that silly. And this is just the cherry-picking nature of Christianity. When God's emotions become inconvenient or falsify his character, they're metaphors. But the moment that they are comforting or say something nice about you, they're literal reality.
You can't have this both ways. So there's setup number one. We're going to move to setup number two. My main problem with heaven, which is this in a nutshell, my main problem with the Christian God is the problem of evil or suffering. I am told relentlessly as the best answer by the way that the solution for this problem is free will. God loves us. He doesn't want robots. So he had to give us free will. And it's out of that free will that man in his wickedness has chosen sin, has chosen against God. And these are the natural consequences. Now, half of what I just said there already falsifies that entire concept as an excuse. It is still God that chose to allow these things to make us knowing what would happen to let this guilt sin nature be transferred through the generations to be born with a debt and all of these other things. But if you can get past all of that and you can actually accept that this God had to give us free will that that is somehow of the utmost importance and that does answer then why there's so much suffering. Now it doesn't answer for gratuitous suffering which is another huge issue there. But if we are just giving the Christians everything they want, fine. Free will solves suffering until heaven. And I'll read to you Revelation 21:4. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death, no more mourning, no more crying, and no more pain. For the old order of things has passed away. All of that stuff isn't just less. It's gone. It cannot exist.
It was part of an old order. You cannot be in heaven in your state of perfection and have sin or sorrow or tears or death. That is what you as a Christian have to believe. It's also what you're counting on. And there's a bunch of other verses, verses in Isaiah that Christians take to be about their God in heaven and other verses in Revelation.
So, this isn't even just a standalone verse. And it's not out of context. You can go and read it all for yourself. And this was going to be the point of my Mother's Day video. So, under this understanding, let's have a mom. We'll use my mom as an example since most of you who are not atheist are convinced I'm going to hell. So my mom's lifelong dream of being with her savior forever happens. She dies. She goes to heaven.
Now as far as I can see it, there are two options. One is that it's still her.
And to be her, she would need some essence of what herself still is. And this gets into a really big philosophical conversation, but I think you guys are going to be able to understand this. Who we are is the collection of who we have been. It is our memory that links us to our self.
That's why people that go through Alzheimer's or dementia or some of these other conditions, it's the saddest thing because it robs them of the very essence of them. They don't know who they are anymore. There's no consistency. It's like a big ship of thesis thing to think about and I don't want to get into all of the philosophy of it but you can understand that if essentially your memory is intact in any way or a complete essence of yourself in terms of a consistent individual is still intact then it cannot remove from her the fact that she was a wife whose husband according to her has backsliden and is in hell and whose son has done the same.
Theoretically, two of the three people she loved most on the planet are not just not with her and yes, my parents are divorced, which is another big problem, right? Like, what happens if you've gotten married to multiple people? What happens if you have children that no longer speak to each other? Like, how do people envision perfection in heaven? You think your adult kids that haven't spoken to you in 10 years are just going to be your best friend up there all of a sudden? that that's how they envision spending their eternity or divorced spouses, all the things. But either way, in this first option of her being intact as the individual she is, which I know I'm trying to build all the right connections here, but that has to be the case for what we're promised, right?
Like otherwise, you could just start in heaven, but supposedly the reason that we don't just start in heaven is so that we can go through the suffering of earth, even though the suffering only happens because of the free will we abused. Which means there should have been a concept of the plan where we had free will and didn't abuse it. But then we would have never had the fall. So we'd only have perfection. So how could we appreciate heaven? I forget where the apologists explain that. Oh wait, they don't. They only ever use it on either side of the excuse. Oh, we were always going to fall. Ah, there's an admittance. And it's this fall on earth and the suffering that we see that allows us to enjoy the totality of God's goodness in heaven. But only if you can remember the suffering. But to remember the suffering would be to suffer. And since suffering does not exist, then you do not. And if you do not, then you are the slave, the robot. And if you are those things, which that's the second option, then earth was unnecessary. And now suffering no longer has an excuse.
And we're back to the problem of suffering alone. Falsifying the entire concept of a good, loving, all powerful God. Now, I tried to explain this in my conversation with Trent Horn, and his answer was that here on earth, even with the good concepts, I used my wife as an example. She's still a Christian. She's going to be in heaven. I'm not. She'll have to deal with that or she won't.
Which again is the problem of losing your autonomy, your agency, your memory, yourself, which makes Earth pointless, the whole thing. And he just said, well, even the good things here on Earth can be disordered. essentially saying that my wife's love for me as her husband, which is what wives are called to do biblically speaking, well, you know, and not to deny sex and to serve them and submit to them and all those other holy things, that that's disordered and can only be correctly understood and reordered to the point where she will celebrate in heaven at my suffering.
Because once in heaven, she will be, and now I'm leaving where Trent stopped and adding on the rest of the apologetic here, that she will be so holy in proximity to God's holiness that the only thing she can do is feel utter joy and contentment at the suffering of those in hell because that's God's justice enacted. Yes, that is really what people believe. That is really the apologetic excuse from the church fathers for this issue. Now, you can think whatever you want about me. You don't have to like me. You don't have to agree with my position on God. You don't have to think highly of me. But there's a reality here that I am no worse than any Christian. My crimes are no greater.
The only difference is that I am not convinced that your God is real. And to you that means I should tortured forever. Like the fact that so many of you are actually okay in that headsp space is the problem with religion. But now apply it more personally and think about my wife who knows I'm a good man, who knows I'm a good husband, who knows I'm a good father, who knows I'm a good friend, who knows I work hard, who knows I care about other people, who knows I'm generous, who shares her entire life with me despite our disagreement on God.
You're telling me when she gets to heaven, God's holiness will convince her that I deserve to be in unending agony.
And that makes sense to you. That sounds good to you. And again, that's only if you use that as the apologetic. But I think before that, you're actually left with the two issues. She either is intact with her memories and herself and would know that she was married and now is missing her partner for eternity. And worse, not just missing me, but knowing my outcome. or God hides those things from her. He wipes her memory. He wipes her brain. He doesn't allow her to remember her time on earth or the consequences for not believing in him.
And again, in that case, he might as well have just started her there because her earthly experience has done absolutely nothing then to contribute to her heavenly experience. It's not a hard concept to understand. And again, this isn't even the new point, but this to me is such a nail in the coffin for the concept of heaven being good. And what's amazing is I made that video and yeah, it's at the end, so not everyone made it. And I kind of started with the weaker points, heaven is boring all the way up. But every single comment I have gotten about the heaven video has ignored this point. All these smart Christians in touch with God, reading their Bible, being filled with the Holy Spirit, could do nothing more than make fun of me for thinking heaven would be boring and had absolutely nothing. I'm talking zero ever to say about this point. So, let's hear it. But now, we're going to combine these things. And it's not like a big point. I just think it's a new point and it's really interesting.
And if this God were real, I think I'd almost feel bad for him because all it can show is how inept this God is. This is a God who is perfect, who needs nothing and yet created angels to do his bidding and then created man in his image to glorify himself. Sounds like a lot of need. And then even though he's perfect and in a perfect place where there can be no tears, death, sorrow, or sin, a third of the angels go against him. Isn't that just what always happens when the boss is good? Like that would be an insane thing. Can you imagine if at like a Fortune 500 company, a third of the employees marched out? What would that say about the company leadership?
And yet, when it comes to God, we just give it up. And that's like one interpretation of when people tried to put certain parts of the Bible together.
But most Christians believe either that or just the fact that Satan was Lucifer, an angel in heaven, a high up angel who rebelled against God. and fell. Like either way, you have to believe that something non-perfect happened in perfection. And again, there's no good excuse. I literally asked that same thing to Trent on our conversation, and he said, "Oh, it's different." Okay, it's just different. God's perfect glory doesn't rub off on angels, the things he created to be under him. But we're supposed to believe that his perfection will rub off on us in heaven when we go.
Again, another huge issue. But going back, this god is perfect. Even though all this stuff gets away from him, everybody rebelss against him. He's cursing people left and right. He's killing people left and right. He's damning people left and right. He's wearing the sorrow for all of this, his regret, his grieving. He's heartbroken.
But then it all ends. Everything that is said to happen in Revelation happens.
Yeah. He gives the devil another thousand years to play around and torture people, but eventually he does away with him. And unless you believe in universalism or annihilation, which are not the majority beliefs of Christians, then the world ends with a new heaven on earth, where all the righteous, people that thought correctly and were lucky enough to be born into the right culture, where all the righteous are with God in perfect paradise and all the unrighteous are getting their due punishment in hell. So, two things, and I promise the last one is my novel point. One of my favorite videos I ever made was the God lost evil one video.
And I'll just remind you the premise.
It's so very simple. Both Yahweh and Jesus at different times in the scriptures, both Old and New Testament have said that they desire that none should be lost. So hell itself, the billions of souls that are lost mean that God didn't get his way. And again, no one put a gun to God's head and made him create. He created with all of his power and all of his foresight and a desire that none should be lost but an outcome where most were lost means that God is not perfect because a perfect God with perfect power perfectly enacts his will or this is his will in which case it's pretty up. So already the fact that this God has to exist with his children burning in hell I think removes perfection from God. And then here's the new point, the new realization. And again, I've just never heard anyone say it. I'm not saying it's that profound, but that means that for the eons and eons and eons and eons, the neverending eternity, everyone in heaven with God will be in a state of constant joy.
Never suffering, never in sorrow, never dying, never sinning, never crying.
These are the promises. But what about God? Psalm 147 tells us that God's understanding is beyond measure. Psalm 139 says, "God knows our thoughts before they're even spoken." Hebrews 4:13 says, "Before him, no creature is hidden." 1 John 3:20 says, "God knows everything."
Isaiah 46 says that God declares the beginning from the end. So if you believe these verses, then you have to believe that God cannot unremember the Holocaust. God cannot forget or unknow every abused child. Maybe you read about it in the news, the man that just got sentenced to death for the abduction and murder of I think it was a seven-year-old girl. And what they played for the jury, it's horrendous. It was just the audio that he had running as he tells this girl how good-looking she is as she begs for her mother before the hours of abuse that happened to her before the blunt trauma that kills her.
That's one example. And how hard was that for you to stomach? I'm sorry, but it happens every single day. It's been happening every single day. This was your God's good plan. He created it and said it was good knowing what would happen. You will never ever ever ever ever ever convince me that any of this is worth it if even one child goes through anything near what that child just went through.
You have no apologetic strong enough. So again, according to the Bible, God knows about that one. He was there in that truck with her when it was happening, watching, doing nothing like he's done a billion times over. And you have to believe that he knows about it and that he even cares about it. Again, this is the hope Christians hang on to when they hear that kind of thing. They talk about Ecclesiastes 12:14 where God will bring every deed into judgment. They talk about Matthew 12:36 where they will give an account for every even just little careless word. Nothing is getting by your God. You love that about him. The justice. Revelation 20:12 says that even the dead are judged. So your God, the same one that had to judge them and see it and know about it and do nothing about it because of that wonderful gift of free will that that seven-year-old was on the bad end of. No free will for her. And if all of this is true, this might actually be the only fitting punishment is that he and he alone is the sole entity in the universe of heaven that has to feel pain, feel sorrow, remember, be grieved by. We know God's capable of it. We know he can't change. We know he can't be lacking in anything, including knowledge and memory. So either you have to believe that your god will purposely choose to forget about all the horror that has happened under his sovereignty, which might be one of the greatest crimes against humanity that this god could do.
Or you believe that he will remember it and then is the sole holder of sorrow in an otherwise perfect world which doesn't seem like the kind of perfection and state of heaven and kind of God that Christians preach about. So again, I gave you outs all along the way. You know, if it's like this, then that means either this or this. Tell me a third option if I'm missing one. Tell me where I'm wrong about one of these two. But on each of these, for each option that I gave, it still says something wrong, broken, falsifiable, contradictory about the nature of this god. The things you have to believe about your god to give him a pass on all of this, I think, is the point of the episode. how much work you have to do to try to reconcile all of these impossibilities that cannot go together. So, we didn't really arrive and focus on that novel thought as much as I thought maybe we would have, but I'm hoping that in kind of one bigger episode here, I was able just to show all of the issues. And it's nowhere even near to all. But tell me what you do think about that last idea of him being the last one left on the good side that has to remember and that would then suffer if we believe the Bible. Imagine what was going on in the verse when Israel was suffering and God said he couldn't bear to look at it any longer. that has to be dwarfed an unimaginable amount into almost nothingness compared to again the Holocaust or just the added up compounding suffering of the billions of people that have lived. If God was so touched by the suffering of Israel in that verse that he had to look away, how does he experience heaven? And if perfection can't be with him, what makes you think it can be with you? Heaven makes no sense. And I don't say that to rob you of a comforting idea, but we've talked a lot recently about truth over comfort. And so many Christians hold on to this religion that causes an immense amount of harm and isn't true and doesn't make sense because they don't want to deal with death, because they want to be reunited with their family, because they want to go and get a new body and be perfect, because they don't want to suffer in hell. But I hope what I've shown you today, small, just a slight example of which is that none of that works. None of it makes a lick of sense. It's time to grow up and face reality. This life now is the only one you get that we know of for sure. And it's definitely the only thing that matters right now, for sure. But your Bible tells you to trade it literally for the promise of tomorrow. To not store up treasures here. When Jesus and Paul both thought the world was ending, they said where the priority should be.
And it wasn't on saving or retirement or family or marriage. Paul says, "Don't get married." Jesus said, "Don't go bury your father." Right? The only thing that matters to them is the next life. That was the clear apocalyptic message. And if you are to be Christlike, then you are taking on that same idea. An idea that doesn't even hold water, that can't make sense. So that's it. Let me know your thoughts on all of this. Thanks for your attention if you made it all the way here. Today is Sunday. I leave tomorrow for a business trip. I have no idea if I'm going to be able to prep any videos. And with it being Mother's Day, I might be late to replying to comments here, but I will see them. I will get to most of them, and I do appreciate them.
I think this is an important video for people that are in the in between. So, help me with it as much as you can. And until the next one, keep thinking. Thank you to my top tiers of support. My conicles, Anne, Boris, Chris, Grace, Steel, Narly, Will, Grant, GVI, Jimmy, Joe, Kaboga, Matthew, Perry, and Sean.
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