Mum Chat: Anti-Muslim Hate - What Do The Numbers Really Tell Us? | Entry Level Mums

[00:00:00]Welcome to Entrylevel Moms. My name is Nasra.

[00:00:03]>> I'm Suya.

[00:00:05]>> Today we have a really important conversation to talk about, Islamophobia.

[00:00:10]>> Before we get into today's episode, we want to say a big thank you to our partner for this one, the British Muslim Trust. If you don't know them, they're a national charity working to monitor and tackle anti-Muslim hostility right across the UK. And it's worth saying they've actually been appointed by the UK government to do this work. So this isn't some small side project. is a serious properly resourced national effort. Basically, this is an organization that exists to have the back of Muslim communities when they're facing hate or hostility. And they do that in three main ways. First, their helpline. That's real human support for anyone affected by anti-Muslim hate.

[00:00:46]Somewhere to actually turn to if something's happened to you or to someone that you love. Second, their research. They go and find out what Muslim communities are actually experiencing on the ground. So, it's based on evidence and lived experience, not headlines or assumptions. We're actually going to share some of the research later in the episode. So, keep an eye out for that. And third, their workshops and outreach, including going to schools, building understanding, and challenging prejudice early with the next generation before it has a chance to really like take root. Put those three together, support right now, research to understanding the bigger picture, and education for the long term, and that's a pretty serious combination.

[00:01:29]Now, the big thing they really want you to take away from today is reporting matters. And it's a lot easier than people think. So, if you or someone you know has experienced anti-Muslim hate or hostility in person, at work, on the bus or train, or online, you can report it straight to them. There's a reporting form on their website, britishmuslimrust.co.uk.

[00:01:48]UK or you can reach them by phone or WhatsApp on 08081723524.

[00:01:56]So whatever you're comfortable with, there's a way to do it. And honestly, it can be dead simple. For online hate, you can literally just screenshot it and send it over on WhatsApp. I've done it exactly the way you'd forward something to like a group chat. Sylvia, when you hear that word, how do you feel when you hear the word Islamophobia?

[00:02:17]It's literally our lived experience, you know, our entire existence just feels like hated and unwelcomed, you know. Um, and I feel like there's a lot of things that we need to talk on. We'll talk about our personal experiences, of course, being Muslim women in the UK, but we're also going to kind of dive into the report as well.

[00:02:39]>> Yeah. Um, but being Muslim in the UK, especially in this climate, especially with the recent protest, the United Kingdom, everything just feels more heightened. And >> yeah, >> I think it's about time we actually speak about it, you know, on our pod.

[00:02:55]>> I completely agree. And what a better way to do it than working with British Muslim Trust.

[00:03:01]>> Yeah.

[00:03:02]>> So, we met British Muslim Trust at um the Muslim Women Awards. And when we met them, we had no idea what they did. I remember asking them, "So, what is it that you guys do?" And when they explained it to me, I was like, "How come more people don't know about this?"

[00:03:18]>> Cuz before we met them, I genuinely I had no idea that there was even a place that you could go to to talk about your experiences, to talk about um anti-Muslim hate. They have like a whole help line where if something has happened to you, you can speak to them and escalate if you would like to or or really just understand what can be done about it and it be added to >> the whole list of things that they cover.

[00:03:46]>> Mhm.

[00:03:47]>> Now being Muslim in Britain is a very interesting one.

[00:03:53]>> Yep. And I think to start with, I would really love to talk about because I think we have spoken about this before on the podcast, what it's like to be British and the identity um the dual identity of like being British and Muslim and then also your ethnicity of us obviously being Somali.

[00:04:13]>> Um >> what does it mean to be British to you Syria?

[00:04:18]>> Loads of things. I think it's just the d, ironically, it's the diversity of the UK. It's especially obviously growing up in London as well, the multiculturalism, the the access to halal food, the different cultures, going to different places in London and experiencing different things. There's something for everyone in London, right? And that's what I appreciate. And I feel like growing up because obviously I've been I was born and bread in the UK. This is all I know, right? Like I wasn't born and raised in Somalia or like in any other country.

[00:04:48]>> Yeah.

[00:04:49]I was born and bred here. So, I'm very much part of that British culture. Yeah.

[00:04:55]>> And I know that I'm part of it because when I go to other countries, it just people can just they would just know that I have this like British way about me. Um but I if I'm going to be honest, I've been here all my life. I've always felt comfortable being in London. But um I would say the past year things have shifted a little bit for me personally >> where I feel like I don't feel welcome.

[00:05:22]>> Okay.

[00:05:23]>> And we've lived through >> 911.

[00:05:26]>> You know what I'm saying? We lived through all of that, but now it just feels more >> in your face.

[00:05:34]>> The protesting and and things like that.

[00:05:36]It's very much in your face. And they literally had women standing on a stage dressed in like and burkas. Do you get it? So it's very like >> I saw that video. So we are I was like what on earth?

[00:05:48]>> Yeah.

[00:05:49]>> So for me it's like with these kind of protest the right-wing protest and stuff like that for me it's like yeah they they want to kick all the immigrants out >> but it also felt very >> specifically towards Muslims. So it's like in one hand they talk about immigrants but like they also just hate Muslims and Muslims only. Do you get what I mean?

[00:06:10]>> So I think in the past year or so I would say >> that I I feel like I don't belong.

[00:06:18]>> Do you get what I'm saying?

[00:06:19]>> There's like um something in like the attention in the air.

[00:06:23]>> Yeah. You could say >> I'm like more hypervigilant.

[00:06:25]>> Yeah. Cuz >> there's this thing called like the the dinner table test, right? And the dinner table test is basically like way before um I would say even co the dinner table test would be like things that are awkward to talk about at the dinner table with your family and friends. So that would like usually be like politics or like um religion or like especially if there's like a difference of opinions within the family.

[00:06:54]>> So a lot of times people like to eat their dinner in peace and just enjoy their food, right? and that be it and just have a laugh with their family. But recently there's been um studies to show that Islamophobia or like anti-Muslim conversations at the dinner table are starting to fly and like it's starting to be an okay topic to bring up at the dinner table. And I personally thought that was mad.

[00:07:20]>> And you know what in the reports that we are cuz guys you should really check out the report. It's quite long but it is worth the read. Yeah. Especially if you live in the UK to know like what people are thinking.

[00:07:30]>> It's worth the read cuz on one hand when I read the report I felt like hopeful but on the other hand I did feel a little bit scared because there there was you said you were born and bred here >> and there was something in the report.

[00:07:42]Yeah. And I'm I'm actually going to read it out guys. There was something in the report that said nearly one in five people, so that's 19% of people. Yeah.

[00:07:51]don't believe that Britishborn Muslims are as British as white non-Muslims.

[00:07:57]>> And when I saw that, I was like, "Wow, so I sound like you. I have grown up in the same place as you. Like I feel like this is my home, but you don't consider me well 19% of you don't consider me as British."

[00:08:16]>> So then now it it begs the question, what is British? Like >> is British white? Is British non-Muslim?

[00:08:23]Like >> what is British? Cuz the British values, right? You know when you go through the British values, freedom of >> democracy, >> freedom of religious practice, all of that stuff, >> freedom of religious practice, >> all of that stuff is non-existent for Muslims basically. So for me, it's like it feels like no other religion >> Yeah. is given that grace to practice freely basically.

[00:08:46]>> Yeah.

[00:08:46]>> Right. Um, and I feel like especially for Muslim women, because we are Muslim women, um, I feel like it's even scarier for us because we're visibly Muslim like with the hijab. Um, Muslim men, they can get away with not looking too Muslim.

[00:09:02]>> Yeah.

[00:09:02]>> Walking down the street. But also it's very racially am like like being a Muslim man is like you can be >> you can be white >> black >> you could you could be a rever you could be tattooed and you could like you could look completely nowhere near Islam and be a Muslim but if you're a woman and you wear hijab it's like a very >> yeah specific >> you're a target straight away >> look yeah >> yeah it's a very interesting one um what's your journey like what was your journey like with hijab growing up in the UK Okay, that's the perfect segue now.

[00:09:34]>> So, unlike SA, I actually wasn't born here. Um, I was born back home and I've been here since I was about to turn four. So, I've been here, this is all I know, put it that way.

[00:09:49]>> You don't really remember much from before the age of three, fourish. So, I did nursery here. I went through the whole school system here. Um, I wore hijab in primary school, but mostly because I felt comfortable too, but there were still days where I didn't want to wear it. Like when it was super super hot, I would take it off, right?

[00:10:10]And obviously as a child, you don't really >> think about these type of things.

[00:10:15]>> Secondary school, I wore a hijab.

[00:10:17]>> And then, um, college, I wore a hijab.

[00:10:21]>> And then university, I didn't.

[00:10:24]>> University, I didn't. And there was there was a stat that talked driven like there was a stat that talked about um the perception of women who wear hijab and it being something that is forced upon them rather than their choice.

[00:10:40]>> And I don't know for my personal experience it wasn't forced upon me.

[00:10:49]>> It became a choice as I was older. But, you know, when you're younger, my mom wanted me to like, she wanted me to feel Muslim.

[00:10:56]>> She wanted me to embody Islam, you know, embrace it and know that this is what we are. Every auntie I know wears a hijab.

[00:11:03]She wanted me to feel part of it. Do you get what I mean? But when I got to university, I chose not to wear it and it wasn't a problem in my household. It didn't cause like massive issues. It was just more like this is your journey. you're going to eventually find your way.

[00:11:22]>> And ever since university, I think I don't think I wore the hijab up until up until I up until I when I got married at at the age of 24, >> I wore it like this. And then yeah, I I wasn't wearing it up until I got married.

[00:11:40]>> Yeah.

[00:11:40]>> From university up until I got married.

[00:11:42]And now I just sort of kept it like this. I don't really wear it like fully.

[00:11:46]And I mean, unless it's Ramadan.

[00:11:50]>> What about you? What's your journey been like with it?

[00:11:52]>> I'm the same. I started when I was in primary school. I decided to put it on >> Uh-huh.

[00:11:56]>> in year five. Yeah. And I remember literally remember my parents were like, >> "Sweet, you don't have to. Yeah, you're still a kid. You don't need to be doing all of that."

[00:12:07]>> I was like, "No, I want to wear it. I want to wear." And I stuck with it. They didn't think I would stick with it, but I stuck with it. Wow. And my sister um she didn't put on the hijab until she was in year 10. So like a whole 5 years later, somebody put on the hijab. So my parents were pretty much do you put it on when you when you feel comfortable and that's that. But in terms of like people's reactions in primary school was pretty tolerant.

[00:12:33]Like I didn't have any issues.

[00:12:35]>> Yeah. uh throughout secondary school, you know how teenagers are like, you know, obviously post 911, there was always Osama bin Laden being the butt of the joke and things like that, right?

[00:12:46]And um there was one particular guy who gave me a hard time in my class and I literally had to move to a different tutor.

[00:12:53]>> Oh wow.

[00:12:54]>> He was giving me a hard time. This was when I started year seven and I had to go to the head of year and say, "I'm tired of it." Like just move me to a completely different tutor class because I don't want to see this guy. Um, so yeah, I only had one situation where I felt like I was being targeted because of my hijab.

[00:13:11]>> Um, but other than that, I didn't have any issues, you know, going through education with my hijab. I wore it up until I was in university. Like I'm talking like a full hijab up until university. And I think it was after uni when I started working is when I switched and and and started wearing the turban.

[00:13:32]Now, if I'm going to be completely honest, because I've always been kind of set in my own ways in terms of personal style, right?

[00:13:40]>> Yeah.

[00:13:40]>> Um, >> right now in this climate, I don't know if I would feel 100% comfortable wearing an abaya and hijab.

[00:13:50]Unfortunately, I don't think I would.

[00:13:54]>> I understand that completely. Do >> you know what I mean? I don't I don't feel like I would feel 100% comfortable.

[00:13:59]>> Yeah.

[00:14:00]Um, even though I would love to wear it.

[00:14:02]Do you know what I mean? But it's just it's always that fear of being a target.

[00:14:08]Um, it's just that hyper vigilance that we all have when we're on train platforms and >> a Muslim woman traveling alone, for example. Like, >> do you know what I mean? It's even got to a point now where I feel protective of other Muslim women. If I see a visibly Muslim woman wearing abaya and hijab or whatever, even in nicab, right, I just find myself looking around looking around her, see anyone who's looking at her, anyone who's going to bother her, like I just find myself protecting another Muslim woman.

[00:14:37]>> I'm exactly the same.

[00:14:38]>> Do you know what I mean? So, I don't know. I think that's probably why I would feel I I could do it.

[00:14:45]>> I could dress with a hijab and a but there's something stopping me.

[00:14:50]>> Yeah, >> there's something stopping me, you know?

[00:14:53]So, yeah, it's being visibly Muslim in this climate is not a joke. Like I remember just a few weeks ago there was a video of a Muslim family getting out of a car and a car just came around the corner and hit one of the Muslim women.

[00:15:08]Like she literally went flying. I think she survived.

[00:15:11]>> She did survive. She was actually okay.

[00:15:13]Surprisingly >> she was okay. Alhamdulillah. But >> seeing that video I was like yo like it could happen to anyone at any time.

[00:15:23]you have to like this is this is where the hypervigilance comes from for me because when I'm seeing all these um videos online I'm just thinking to myself you need to be very very aware of your surroundings >> you know like even when you're crossing the street even when even when I'm crossing the zebra crossing I'm just like I wait until they fully stop before I cross like there's certain things where I'm just like I'm very aware that I'm Muslim >> right and even certain areas that I go to >> Yeah >> in the UK Um like >> you know what though like we Okay, so we went to Devon.

[00:15:58]>> Yeah.

[00:15:58]>> Um over the weekend for our friend's birthday and we had a station and the topic of conversation came up while we were there. So okay, >> by the way, we were stuck in like 4 hours of traffic. It was crazy. Um and then when we got to where we got to near where we were going, we had to stop off in a Tesco and then we went into the Tesco and there was a man. Do you remember that man that was staring at us? And it was just there was only two of us that were in the shop. And the person who I was with is H has a hijab, our friend. And I wear it like this. But I think I had a hat on.

[00:16:32]>> You had a bucket hat?

[00:16:33]>> I had a bucket hat on with I didn't have this on. I had a bucket hat on because it was hot. Story for another day.

[00:16:39]Anyway, um it was super hot, so I had a bucket hat on and we walked into this store and got whatever we wanted to get. And then he's I'd noticed that he's staring at us. And then on the way out, he he left like a couple of seconds after us and he was staring at us as he was walking away. And then I kind of like smiled at him cuz I thought, what if he's just intrigued by us? You know, like part of me part of me wants to still be hopeful, but then the other part of me was like, what if he's staring at us because he wants to report us because why are they here? Type of vibe.

[00:17:12]>> Me and you had two different completely reactions. Yeah, we we did have two completely different reactions >> because Nasa was like, "Let me bring him closer by smiling."

[00:17:19]>> Yeah.

[00:17:20]>> Me, I was like, "Let's get in the car."

[00:17:22]kind of >> was like so uncomfortable cuz the way that staring at us was like like this.

[00:17:27]>> Exactly. So then obviously Nasa smiles at him.

[00:17:30]>> Yeah. She goes, "You're all right." And then all of a sudden he walks towards us.

[00:17:34]>> He just kind of like calms down. He walks towards us and he's like, "Yeah, so what are you guys doing this weekend?

[00:17:39]Where you off to?" And just started having a conversation with us. Yeah. It caught me so off guard that I was I told him where we were going like and and I guess that for me it was like I don't want to look suspicious in any way. You know there's all these like thoughts in the back of your head.

[00:17:52]>> That's the thing.

[00:17:53]>> I don't want to seem suspicious in any type of way.

[00:17:56]>> Are we are we doing anything wrong?

[00:17:58]>> No. That's that's the crazy thing.

[00:17:59]>> That's the thing. We're just existing.

[00:18:01]We just went to Tesco and now we're just getting in the car. But we felt like >> we had to justify our presence.

[00:18:07]>> Our existence.

[00:18:09]So he was just like, "Oh." Also, he was being nice, but like it still felt like a interrogation.

[00:18:13]>> Intrusive. It felt intrusive.

[00:18:14]Definitely.

[00:18:15]>> So, I'm standing there quietly. Nas is chatting to this guy and in my head I'm thinking, why is he walking closer to us? Like, he was as he was asking us questions, he just kept moving closer and closer and he was very intrigued like what you guys doing around here, you know, where did you come from kind of vibe. We were like, oh, we just drove up from London. We're just going to go down to the coast, whatever. And he's like, oh yeah, so it's it's a nice day, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Well, have a nice uh weekend or whatever. and you ended up walking off and I just stood there like, why did that feel like an interrogation?

[00:18:46]>> Yeah, it did feel like an interrogation.

[00:18:48]It did >> because why were you so curious enough to just come and talk to us like that after you were just staring us down in Tesco? Do you know what I mean? Like, have you not seen people that look like us before?

[00:18:58]>> No, because that was that was initially my first thought. You get what I'm saying? No, that SA that was really my initial first thought. Like I I didn't see it from the other lens of like this is unsafe and this is intrusive and it feels like an interrogation. I just thought >> maybe he's never seen black people before.

[00:19:12]>> But that's nuts though in >> That's what I thought in 2026 though. We were only a couple of hours out from London. What do you mean? Do you know what I mean? If it was like a remote village somewhere in Timbuktu. I understand that.

[00:19:24]>> I understand.

[00:19:25]>> I understand if I go to China today they're going to start taking pictures.

[00:19:29]>> I get that. But we were in the UK just two hours from London.

[00:19:33]>> Four >> four hours from London.

[00:19:35]>> Yeah.

[00:19:35]>> It's mad.

[00:19:36]>> No, honestly, it it was a very weird situation, but everybody was so nice and I remember we had like a conversation when we were cuz so we did like a color challenge. We were in the in the port city and then I remember we had a conversation about this when we were making our pizzas. So, we made some like um they had a pizza oven and we were making pizzas and we were talking about this and I remember saying to the girls I was like I was really weary of strangers reactions towards our existence and our presence >> cuz bear in mind we were in like a a village >> way outside of London where it's mostly you know white people that live there and we are a big group of nine girls nine black Muslim women >> and six of us wear hijab >> just hair. Do you get it? And half of them are wearing hijab.

[00:20:22]>> So, we felt like we were different like right off the bat. Do you know what I mean? So, I felt a bit anxious to be honest.

[00:20:28]>> Yeah. So did I.

[00:20:28]>> Cuz I was fine just staying in the in the in the in the house and, you know, chilling by the pizza oven and, you know, using the indoor pool.

[00:20:36]>> But then as soon as they said we're going to go out to town >> and we're going to start taking pictures, I thought, I hope >> we get a good reception.

[00:20:43]>> Yeah.

[00:20:44]>> At the very least. I started to get anxious. Oh, I had a fantastic time once I got there and I saw how nice they were.

[00:20:50]>> Like people were so nice. They were having like this pirate thing going on.

[00:20:53]They had like a pirate theme. We went to Ilfreome in um Devon, North Devon and they had like a pirate thing going on.

[00:21:00]And as I was walking down there like this shanty song that went viral like a few years ago that I listened to like a hundred times. And I was looking soon bring the sugar and tea and rum and they were looking at me like how does she know this song? And you guys were like, "How the hell do you know this?"

[00:21:17]>> No, but like honestly I was, let's just say I was uh pleasantly surprised. The thing is, >> honestly, >> it's a shame that I felt that way. Do you know what I mean? Like it's I shouldn't be feeling that way.

[00:21:29]>> But I made an assumption >> Yeah.

[00:21:31]>> before going into town that we would get bad reactions.

[00:21:34]>> But Sya, that assumption that you made is not like it's not an an out of pocket or strange assumption to make. The reason why I say that is because if we can experience microaggressions and Islamophobia in London, which is the most diverse place in the entire United Kingdom, right?

[00:21:52]>> How would we feel somewhere remote?

[00:21:56]>> Especially with the whole protesting that's been happening, the rightwing protesting, reform, all of this stuff.

[00:22:00]>> Yeah, there was a lot to consider.

[00:22:01]>> You're going to feel a little bit like uncomfortable in certain areas. But honestly, guys, I was honestly I was genuinely pleasantly surprised. I would rather be pleasantly surprised but being weary beforehand than go into it completely naive and have a bad experience because that would really mess with me.

[00:22:18]>> They were they were so nice.

[00:22:20]>> They loved us.

[00:22:21]>> They bro people there was genuinely happy and I feel like as Londoners we see the stark difference because >> in London obviously they see us as very miserable.

[00:22:30]>> Yeah. We we have a bad vibes uh >> we don't live by the sea and stuff so >> allegation.

[00:22:35]>> Yeah. So, we have that kind of uh that saying of like Londoners are depressing and blah blah blah and people up north are nicer.

[00:22:43]>> Yeah.

[00:22:43]>> But yo, people in Devon, I think it's cuz they live by the sea >> and they live in a really beautiful place. They are genuinely happy.

[00:22:50]>> What reason do you have to be upset when your the place you live in looks like that? You don't have any reason, bro.

[00:22:55]>> The guy in the shop, there's no hate to spew.

[00:22:57]>> Yeah. We went into a shop. It's like, was it called Fairies Fairies Fancies or something like that? I went into the shop and the guy said, "Oh, I was like, you guys are so happy." And he was like, "Yeah, Devon is heaven." I was like, >> "Fair, fair."

[00:23:10]>> And then we just continue saying Devon is heaven the whole weekend.

[00:23:13]>> Yeah. Literally came literally the theme of the weekend. But yeah, I was pleasantly surprised because I literally went into the town thinking, I feel different. I feel anxious, careful of how you move. Don't be too suspicious.

[00:23:26]And I thought to myself, yo, I spoke to one of the girls that was with us >> and she was like, "It's weird. You're basically operating from your paranoia and she was like, every interaction that you have or like any energy that you give out, >> like it's it's just going to >> cloud your whole experience."

[00:23:43]>> She was like, "Just be yourself. Say hello to people. Be happy. Do your thing." Like, I was watching her. She's so carefree. Like, she was walking around saying, "Hey, everyone." And just being herself. And I'm just like, damn.

[00:23:53]Once I felt comfortable, I did that too.

[00:23:56]>> Exactly. It took a while. I think the first hour I was just like >> I feel uncomfortable >> and then after a few like after like a while people were complimenting Zanab's dress like oh that's such a lovely dress you're wearing and I'm just like you're in your head a bit too much you know but can you blame us?

[00:24:16]>> And you know I didn't I didn't get a single microaggression cuz you know how sometimes people say like oh where are you from? And then you're like, "Oh, I'm from London." And they're like, "No, where are you really from?"

[00:24:26]>> I didn't get any of that. It was literally like, "Oh, where are you from?" I was like, "I'm from London."

[00:24:30]"Oh, I've been to London." And it like it became a conversation about about London. Do you know what I mean? And every person I spoke to was genuinely just so nice. Like I've never been to a place where I'm taking pictures of the girls and then a guy walks past and goes, "Would you like me to take a picture of you with you included?" And then I remember one of the girls was like, "Don't give him your camera." And then I I was like, "Nah, man. He's not going to run away from my camera." I gave him my camera. He just took such beautiful pictures of us. It was so nice. Genuinely, I was very, very pleasantly surprised.

[00:24:58]>> I was.

[00:24:58]>> And now it's kind of changing my perception.

[00:25:01]>> It's changed my perspective because obviously the reason why I've stayed in London for so long and haven't really branched out and explored other areas is because I have that fear in my head that >> if I go too far out, >> Yeah.

[00:25:13]>> I'm going to end up, >> I don't know, being the only person who's ethnic and having problems. You know what I'm saying? So like >> treated differently.

[00:25:21]>> Treated differently.

[00:25:23]>> So yeah, it's changed my perspective for sure. Devon was genuinely up there with one of the best weekends of my life.

[00:25:28]>> Same.

[00:25:29]>> Like it was Yeah, it was it was sick.

[00:25:31]>> Devon, you got good PR.

[00:25:33]>> Honestly, man, Devon is heaven for real.

[00:25:35]Um I wanted to ask you actually in terms of being Muslim, um traveling, airport experiences. Oh man, you know >> there were two main moments of growing up here where I remember thinking okay okay you are Muslim >> very much Muslim and you know when he has it's I don't know it's like when we we were talking to one of our friends about um their experience with racism and I remember she said that she lived 18 years of her life without ever experiencing racism. ism. And she said that the day that she experienced it, it was like, you know, like when a light bulb goes off or like an awareness that like you can't go back from almost like an innocence that was stripped of you.

[00:26:24]>> And on one of our previous episodes, I remember talking about when I was on the train and um I got on the train, there was a woman who was sat in front of me, looked visibly uncomfortable, um kept looking at me. I had a hijab, four hijab and abaya on. I was on my way to Miland Leisure Center to go and play some badminton and she looked at me, she was like, she got off the train and then I carried on my business. I thought that's weird. Carried on my business, got to my leisure center, changed my clothes, everything. 10 minutes later, who walks in? That same lady. and she saw me and she like stopped in her tracks and was like and that for me was the first time that I thought okay you saw me with a hijab and you thought she has a backpack she's dodgy >> and life made you end up in the same place that I was and now you see me for actually just being a human and that oh r she was coming to play badminton >> that you were just going there yeah >> and she was just coming here to do the same thing that I was doing so I hope that that lady had like a perception shift in that moment. That was the first incident. The second incident was I always used to fly out with my friends and this is like early 20s.

[00:27:38]>> Every single time I would fly out the e-gate would never work for me.

[00:27:42]>> And I remember at one point it I I just I had I was so over it because I had to now stand in a queue, talk to this guy.

[00:27:49]He's now asking me questions like, "Oh, uh, what is a famous road that people go shopping on in London?" And I'm like, "Brother, can you not hear me? I sound like I'm from England. You can't make up this accent. Do you get what I'm saying?

[00:28:02]>> You're asking questions like you're getting your citizenship, bro.

[00:28:05]>> That's the questions they ask when you're getting your citizenship, man."

[00:28:08]>> He fully asked me, "Can you name a landmark in London?" And I was like, "Bro, are you joking?"

[00:28:14]>> Crazy for an airport.

[00:28:15]>> He asked me what primary school I went to.

[00:28:18]You're lying.

[00:28:19]>> I swear. What road is it on? That's that's literally what he asked me.

[00:28:22]Things that threw me off and I was like, "What the hell?" So, that happened to me and I remember it being like 3:00 in the morning and I just was so over it. Yeah.

[00:28:31]I said to myself, the next I have like we had a flight to catch in a couple of months. I said, "The next time I'm going to ask them what their problem is."

[00:28:37]>> So, the next time I literally went I was the imagine I was the only person that went that way.

[00:28:44]>> And I was the only there was no cue. I was the only person. So, I've now walked that way, walked that way, walked that way, walked that way, walked that way, that way until I got to the person. And then he was talking to me. He was being really nice. He didn't ask me all the intrusive questions. And then I literally just said to him, "Listen, honest to God, I really need to know.

[00:28:59]Like, why does this never work for me?

[00:29:02]How come I always get sent over here?"

[00:29:05]And I swear the guy looked left and right like this. And then he just looked at me and he went, "It's your surname."

[00:29:14]And I'm like, bro, like I've got the most common surname and the most common first name in the entire world. Like >> just because it's Muhammad, like that's like the most >> that's the most Muslim name you can get.

[00:29:27]>> The most Muslim name out there, bro.

[00:29:29]>> That's the most Muslim. So what you're saying is is because I'm Muslim, even though I'm not wearing a headscarf and I don't visibly look Muslim. Because my name is Muhammad, I'm not allowed through the Egate. And I remember that was the second time where I was like, "Oh, rude awakening." M >> is because you're Muslim.

[00:29:43]>> Mhm.

[00:29:45]>> I have anxiety traffic >> at the airport.

[00:29:48]>> Yeah. If I get if I can get through the security >> then I can like >> relax >> relax.

[00:29:53]>> Yeah.

[00:29:54]>> But from the the the what do you call it? Border control to the security bit like all that that whole process. Nasa >> I actually hate it so much.

[00:30:04]I don't blame you because I'm constantly I'm always the one that gets randomly selected. I'm always the one that they open up the suitcases. Like I went traveling recently with Jenna to Germany and my small little carry-on was the only one that was being opened and rummaged through.

[00:30:19]>> Yeah.

[00:30:19]>> You know, so it's just things like that.

[00:30:21]>> So yeah, um traveling as a Muslim is is another thing cuz I'm always looking at which country is the most Muslim friendly.

[00:30:29]>> Do they hate black people there? Do they hate Muslims there? Literally, that's >> that's so sad because of whatever you've experienced here and all the things that are even if you've not been targeted personally and like unfortunately unfortunately like that lady who got hit by the car. If you haven't even been targeted directly or personally, just the fact that whatever tension is in the air and all of the marches and hearing what people really think of us, like it, >> it's now affected even your decisions >> on where you travel to.

[00:31:03]>> Imagine just being so carefree and naive and like they say ignorance is bliss.

[00:31:07]Imagine just never experiencing anything like that. Just being completely ignorant to it. You could go wherever you want without having that second thought. Mhm.

[00:31:15]>> But for me that I kind of wish I had that but then it's also equally scary because then if something happens to you like almost like >> it's like a triple >> Yeah.

[00:31:27]>> pain. Do you know what I mean? Cuz you didn't expect it. You didn't think about it. Like it wasn't within your scope. It wasn't in your radar.

[00:31:36]>> But then again, if something does happen to you and you're like, "Let me be adventurous." and you go somewhere random and then you do feel that Islamophobia almost like it's like evidence towards your own prior belief. Do you get what I mean?

[00:31:52]>> And that kind of like strengthens that fear.

[00:31:55]>> So, I guess it's a lose-lose regardless.

[00:31:58]>> It's a lose-lose.

[00:31:59]>> The only way it's going to be a win-win is is if people just stop being Islamophobic, bro. Like, just >> we're just here in it. Like, we're just vibing. Do you think most people who are Islamophobic have never actually had a conversation with a Muslim?

[00:32:11]>> 100%. 100%.

[00:32:13]>> I don't think they've got any Muslim friends. You know, >> most people that have met Muslims are not Islamophobic.

[00:32:20]>> But you'd be surprised though. There's people who went to school with Muslims >> and now in their adult years, they're now joining the whole protesting. And there's people who work with Muslims.

[00:32:33]They go to the the protest on the weekend, Monday morning. They're like, "You're right, Muhammad.

[00:32:37]>> All right, Mo.

[00:32:38]>> You're right, Mo." Do you know what I mean? So, that's that's the scary part for me.

[00:32:43]>> It's the fact that one in what was it?

[00:32:45]One in five >> one in five people think that uh British Muslims are not British enough or they don't follow British values.

[00:32:51]>> 19%.

[00:32:52]>> Right.

[00:32:53]>> Yeah. Or they're not as British as white non-Muslims.

[00:32:57]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So yeah, it's it's scary to just think, you know, how many people were at those protests and how many people are among you at work and school. And >> you know, you know what what makes me laugh though? There's like a little bit of like a contradiction I guess because out of that 19% of people that don't see like um ethnic people who were born here as British as non u Muslim white people, right, who were born here.

[00:33:30]>> It it makes me think, wasn't it just the other day when they were saying, "Tell the Eastern Europeans to go back home.

[00:33:38]>> They're coming here stealing our jobs."

[00:33:39]But aren't Eastern European people white?

[00:33:42]>> So now I'm like, >> what do you really want? You know what I mean?

[00:33:49]>> What do you really want? Cuz if it's not Muslims that are the problem, then later on you're going to say the Eastern European Polish people are coming here and taking all our jobs and then >> then it's back to Muslims, then it's black people. Then it's like, do you get what I mean?

[00:34:02]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:04]It's the the whole immigrants and the Muslim thing >> because one minute they directly hating on just Muslims and then the next they're like all of them all that immigrants need to go. Well, if you're Muslim and immigrant, you know what I mean? You could be a bit of both. But yeah, no, it's just Yeah, it is confusing. It really is. But I feel like most of it is just ignorance.

[00:34:24]>> And just like that man who saw us in Tesco, >> I feel like if you didn't say you're right, he probably would have walked away thinking >> people would have thought these hostile >> why are they here? Yeah, >> but it's sad that you had to do that to show that you're human.

[00:34:37]>> Do you get what I mean? Like >> to show that I'm just a person.

[00:34:40]>> I'm just a girl. We were just literally in Tesco doing the same thing you're doing.

[00:34:43]>> I'm just a girl.

[00:34:44]>> You know, >> I was buying roasting trays cuz guess what? Later on, we had a roast dinner.

[00:34:48]>> Lit.

[00:34:50]>> We had a Sunday roast dinner on a Friday night.

[00:34:54]>> That roast banged though.

[00:34:54]>> That roast severely banged.

[00:34:57]>> Right. Quick pause in the conversation.

[00:35:00]We wanted to share some genuinely eye-opening findings from the British Muslim Trust's latest research. The reports called Understanding Anti-Muslim Hostility: Foundations for Action. It's one of the largest samples used for this kind of research. Over a thousand Muslim adults surveyed, plus 2,000 people from the wider UK public for comparison. And honestly, some of these stats really made us stop and think. We wanted to put them out there. So, here's the headline one. Did you know that only one in three people in Britain, just 32% believe that most Muslim women who wear a hijab do so out of personal choice? And here's the flip side. Even more people than that, 44% wrongly assume that women who wear the hijab are being pressured into it by family or community. Just sit with that for a second. That's nearly half the country making an assumption about Muslim women that simply isn't true. And if you're listening and you wear the hijab, that's the gap between the truth that this is your choice, your faith, your identity, and how strangers perceive it. There were a couple more stats that really landed for us, too. A third of Muslim women, 33%, said that they'd experienced faith-based prejudice in a public space in just the last year, out in the world, just going about their day. And nearly seven in 10 Muslim women, 69% said that they felt more worried about their personal safety after the Unite the Kingdom protest back in September 2025. As moms, that one really sits with us, what it means to feel unsafe in public, to be more wary on the school run, on the bus, out with your kids. These are exactly the kind of findings that people need to see because most of the country has no idea. So here's what we're asking. Share these stats on your own social media. Make it part of the conversation and tag the British Muslim Trust so that they can see it and amplify it. That's BritishMuslim Trust. The more people who know the reality, the harder it becomes to ignore. Sharing really is a small act that helps. And while we're on the subject, let's talk about online hate specifically because this is actually the easiest thing in the world to report. If you see anti-Muslim hate online, just screenshot it and send it directly to the British Muslim Trust on WhatsApp. The number again is 08081723524.

[00:37:19]Exactly like you'd forward something into a group chat. That's literally what NUS has done before. And here's why that matters. The British Muslim Trust logs every one of those screenshots and they're building a database of online hate which they use to challenge the social media companies who aren't dealing with hate on their platforms properly. So that one screenshot you send is not just sitting there, it's helping hold the big tech platforms to account. You can also report through the form at britishmuslimrust.co.uk if you'd rather do it that way. I just wanted to share some of our uh followers. We basically did a we did a poll on Instagram.

[00:37:57]>> We asked our followers because obviously majority of them were Muslim women. Um we we we asked them to take part in the poll. We asked a bunch of questions just to see uh how the experiences have been like in the UK. And I wanted to read something na.

[00:38:10]>> Yeah, go for it.

[00:38:11]>> Someone actually sent us a message.

[00:38:15]She said, "I would take my son through a specific route through the park and this one dog would always charge at me and my son. The owner would always control her dog and tell him off. But there was one day he charged at me and my son and the owner was preoccupied with something else until a lovely man riding his bike stepped in. My son was extremely traumatized. I dropped him off to school and came back to speak to the dog owner.

[00:38:35]To my surprise, she said, "My my dog doesn't like women dressed like you." I could not believe my ears. I said, "Excuse me?" She said, "He was abused by women that are dressed like you." And she saved him. And since he has that trauma, whenever he sees someone dressed like me, he gets angry. I told her respectfully, "Do not leave your dog without a leash."

[00:38:57]I found that mad when I read that because I'm like, >> first of all, Muslims don't even have dogs.

[00:39:03]>> Yeah. Like, you won't really catch a Muslim woman dressed like that with a dog. That's one.

[00:39:09]>> And secondly, I'm just like, is she projecting her racist views and Islamicophobic views through her dog? Because you can't admit that you you're the one that's Islamophobic because why are you saying my dog my dog doesn't like people dressed like you? I don't think dogs are Islamophobic, bro. I don't think dogs are racist either.

[00:39:29]>> But I do believe that owners can train dogs >> to do certain things.

[00:39:35]>> So, I'm not blaming the dog. I'm blaming the owner. Do you know what I mean?

[00:39:39]>> You can't blame a dog. Like, >> that the first thing she said was, "My dog doesn't like people dressed like you."

[00:39:45]>> That's nuts. It's like children. Hate is not b You're not born with hate. Hate is taught.

[00:39:50]>> It's taught. children who say racist things and who are, you know, bullies and stuff like that. It's behavior. It's learned behavior. It's behavior that they've seen and that they've seen as okay, you know, or that hasn't been checked before. So, how could she blame her dog for not liking women dressed like you? That that doesn't make any sense to me in the slightest.

[00:40:13]>> Yeah. We also did a poll on Instagram.

[00:40:16]Um, we asked a question to our followers. Have recent events made you feel less safe in the UK?

[00:40:22]81% said yes. Wow. 8% said no and 12% said doesn't bother me. But still 81% is a lot. Like a lot of moms, Muslim moms are like they feel a bit they they feel less safe since the um >> United Kingdom >> protests. Yeah.

[00:40:39]>> Yeah.

[00:40:40]>> Um another question was do you worry about raising your children here? Um 78% said often, 20% said sometimes, and only 1% said never.

[00:40:50]>> Wow. Yeah. Wow.

[00:40:56]It's nuts. Wow. Um, another question was, do you experience more hate online or in real life? And 61% said online and 39% more in person. Wow.

[00:41:10]online. I I guess it's um it's easier for people to be more brazen online. You know, they can hide behind an anonymous account >> um and they can just spew hate. Um we we've gotten so many Islamophobic comments as well. Like >> also, I think the difference between online and in person is that online can be propaganda. Like there could be people who are driving a specific narrative >> and they just go online and they just say whatever they want to say >> because >> the accountability element of it isn't there because there's nobody who's going to be in your face or like there are people who you know um what do they call them? Bad actors in real life. But like in online there's so many bot accounts or like um accounts where people try to rage bait other people. So, I guess if you're trying to shift the narrative in a certain direction, it's so much easier to do it online.

[00:42:07]>> But in person, there are consequences for people's actions. M >> and if we're going to go back to the British values, democracy, um allowing people to freely practice whatever they want to practice, um tolerance, respect, all these things are British values that you can hold them accountable for. Do you know what I mean?

[00:42:31]>> And there's the police. But online crime and online hate and online things, it's people are so much more willing to do it that way, which is why we should screenshot everything. Send it to British Muslim. I'm I'm literally on the WhatsApp and I be screenshotting.

[00:42:48]>> Yeah.

[00:42:48]>> Sometimes I'll comment on things and then all of the Islamophobic comments that come from it, send it in.

[00:42:55]>> Yeah. If you want things to change, right, you have to be part of that change and you have to report.

[00:42:59]>> Absolutely. um we have to report all these hate crimes because then it's they're not going to be able to help.

[00:43:06]>> Absolutely.

[00:43:07]>> Nothing will change if we don't report it basically.

[00:43:09]>> Do you know Sria, I was actually wanting to to add to this topic because we're talking about being moms, right? And >> the polls predominantly for uh our audience who mostly are moms, right?

[00:43:20]Do you ever feel like when Adam or JJ are, you know, acting out in public, do you ever feel like you like scrutinized like to the point where you feel like you have to >> like minimize them or like not even acting out, but like just even just being a child?

[00:43:38]>> Yeah. Like sometimes Hannah and I are on the train and like she wants to like climb on the seat and like she wants to like you know uh swing off the thing or like and I feel like although nobody's ever come up to me and said to me you know control your child, right? No one's ever done that. But I still feel like I have to reduce her to make her more more I don't know palatable or like >> for them not to have a negative perception of Islam for them not to be thinking that oh these Muslims don't even you know discipline their children or like I I don't want that perception of me cuz it's not just me cuz I see that when people look at me they see the hijab right so they know immediately I'm a Muslim.

[00:44:27]I don't want them to think that, you know, our kids are wild or like our kids, but sometimes it's even just where's the limit? Like, how do you let them just be kids? Do you get what I mean? And I feel like I don't want to >> I don't want to impose my my like >> fears >> fears. Yeah. Onto her so that it removes her innocence, I guess, in that way of like just just being a child. But do you ever feel like that?

[00:44:57]>> Yes. Well, all the time. And this is why I always feel comfortable just driving >> cuz it's just me and the kids in our own space, >> getting on trains and being in public with the kids. It >> it makes me even more anxious.

[00:45:10]>> I don't want them to be perceived in a different way.

[00:45:13]>> Um I don't know how people would react if they have tantrums. Like, do you know what I mean?

[00:45:17]>> And I'm constantly like, "Jenna, sit down. Adam, quiet. Just give them a snack so they're quiet." Do you know what I mean? That's how I feel like I act in public. That's exactly how >> I want them to I don't want any attention on us.

[00:45:28]>> Motherhood is already hard.

[00:45:30]>> Yeah.

[00:45:30]>> And then and then and then to be a Muslim mom on top of that >> is a whole different layer that you don't want to like invoke on your kids as well. Do you know what I mean?

[00:45:39]>> And also kind of I guess it's like a protective thing as well because you don't want anyone in this climate to be like saying something or like make a comment or like you know now you have to explain to your child that some people are just mean. It's it's not because of you, you know, like it's not you. Like, it's them. And I just I just don't want her to experience anything like that.

[00:46:00]>> Exactly. They're still so innocent.

[00:46:01]Like, Jenna randomly always says, you know, I want to put on a hijab like my grandma. She will she'll she'll literally put it on and she'll be like, take a picture so we can send it to EA and stuff like that. Like, I remember feeling that way, which is why I started in primary school. I remember thinking, I want to look like my mom and my aunties. Like, do you know what I mean?

[00:46:17]You want to embrace it.

[00:46:18]>> Um, >> you feel like you're part of something.

[00:46:20]>> You're part of something. Do you know what I mean? So, obviously, I'll never stop her from embracing it, but they're still so innocent and I'm trying to protect them from any kind of hate and, you know, in public, >> negativity or anything that kind >> I get you. But, you know, like having said that, yeah, >> I personally think I had the best childhood personally. Like, I I loved growing up here.

[00:46:48]>> It's all I know.

[00:46:50]You can't send me back.

[00:46:51]>> What do you >> I'm not going anywhere.

[00:46:53]>> What do you What do you love about living here?

[00:46:54]>> What do I love about here?

[00:46:56]>> I don't know. London, I feel like, is there's nowhere else in the world like London.

[00:47:01]>> I guess some people compare New York to London, but like it's completely different. Like, there's nowhere else like London in the entire world.

[00:47:10]>> And growing up here, >> what what was it? There was there was a moment that um when we were in Devon and I said something like, "I've never felt more British." And I literally said it and I was like, I've never felt more British. Was it when we were having our full English in the morning? Yeah.

[00:47:27]Because we didn't even plan it. But why did we have a roast dinner the night before and then for and the next morning we had a full English and we were just like, "This is so British." Like, do you know what I mean?

[00:47:38]>> It was so funny.

[00:47:39]>> But yeah, no, it was such a vibe. Um, what else do you love about being here?

[00:47:44]>> I love our music. I love our music. I love the music in the UK. I love British crime. I love like I love anything that is like us. I guess >> this is so this is so specific.

[00:47:55]>> Yeah.

[00:47:57]>> Aside from like the diversity and the multiculturism and the you know halal food options and all of that stuff.

[00:48:02]>> Yeah.

[00:48:03]>> The British humor is unmatched.

[00:48:05]>> Unmatched.

[00:48:07]>> Do you know what I mean?

[00:48:08]>> British humor is it's no one does it like the British.

[00:48:11]>> I love it. And you know what the funny thing is? Yeah. I know there's a lot of like bigotry. There's a lot of racism.

[00:48:15]There's a lot of like all of these like negativity, but I used to work on a construction site and I never experienced anything like that on the construction site >> really >> and it was literally like >> every day just straight banner >> and they're more unfiltered and I'm very unhinged and like I'm so much my sense of you literally. So we are I thrived >> in that environment you were >> in that environment >> me and me and the construction workers That's crazy. Actually, I wanted to go back to the report for a second. Yeah.

[00:48:51]>> Yeah.

[00:48:52]>> There was one specific part that I found very interesting. So, obviously the report says that many Muslims uh experience prejudice.

[00:49:01]>> Uh but most of them still feel very hopeful about life in Britain.

[00:49:05]>> Um and there's a stat here which I'm very surprised about. 73% of British Muslims who took part in this report said that Britain is still a good place to be Muslim.

[00:49:18]>> Even though they there's like two realities.

[00:49:21]>> Yeah. They understand that there's a heightened prejudice and hate towards Muslims.

[00:49:25]>> Yeah.

[00:49:27]>> But they still feel a huge sense of belonging and that's mad, you know, like that balance is mad. How do you feel? Do you feel like you truly belong? like >> or do you think it's changed a little bit?

[00:49:41]>> Do you know what? It's definitely changed. But I feel like I do this thing where like when someone says something that is like I kind of educate a little bit and I I give them the chance to learn because sometimes it's just like they just don't know, you know? Like for example, one of the moms at at at our school um she was telling me a story about something that happened to her and she was referencing uh a Bengali lady and she said that the Bengali lady went to talk to her friends about her and she basically was like yeah they were talking about me in Muslim and I remember just standing there being like in in what? And she went in Muslim and I went >> you have to get them to repeat it sometimes. I'm like it it almost you know what I heard in my head let's go back to Islam. That's what I heard in my head. I was like go back to Islam with your hello meat. That's literally what I heard.

[00:50:32]>> Muslim is.

[00:50:33]>> Yeah. She was like they were speaking in Muslim. And I was like nuts.

[00:50:35]>> Okay. I I had to now break it down to her to be like look >> she's Bengali. I'm Somali. We don't speak the same language but we're both Muslim.

[00:50:42]>> You know >> Muslim is faith. It's our faith.

[00:50:44]>> It's just the religion. It's like you can have like somebody who's Christian and they can be Nigerian or they can be Italian or they can be you know what I'm saying >> common sense like you should have just said to her am I saying that you're speaking Christian right now?

[00:51:00]>> Do you get it? Like for me it's like the ignorance is so mad that I don't even want to educate. I'm I'm just mad now because what do you mean at your big age you're saying someone is talking Muslim?

[00:51:13]>> Do you know what I mean? It's like a It's like a not just ignorance, they're just uneducated >> genuinely.

[00:51:20]>> Genuinely >> and it's very it's very concerning.

[00:51:26]>> I mean, >> you would think a child would be speaking like that.

[00:51:28]>> Yeah. I mean, at this age, I mean, once you get become an adult, it is quite concerning.

[00:51:32]>> It's so concerning.

[00:51:33]>> Yeah. You you should want to know, right? Everybody went to school.

[00:51:36]Everyone did RE, right? We all learned about Taoism. We all learned about Hinduism. We all learned about Buddhism.

[00:51:41]We all learned about like Jewish um and the synagogues and like I visited a synagogue when I was in school. Like we went I they took me to a synagogue and I visited a synagogue and I went to a church. We went to a massive cathedral.

[00:51:53]It was beautiful >> and >> when we were in art we drew the Sagrada Familia in um Barcelona >> and it's the the most beautiful church.

[00:52:05]Yeah. When I went to Barcelona I went to visit the Sagra familia because I was like I drew this in school. I sat there for like 16 hours.

[00:52:12]>> Still hard to draw, man.

[00:52:13]>> And listen, it took so They're still building it till today. How about that?

[00:52:16]Like, it took so long for me to draw it.

[00:52:17]But I went there and I sat in there and I visited it and I was like, "Wow." I just embraced it. So, I feel like if I can do that and I'm a Muslim, how come other people can't do that for us?

[00:52:26]>> Yeah.

[00:52:26]>> Like, if you're confused about Islam or like you you have like this, you know, uh, negative perception of it, just go to the mosque, like go speak to somebody, ask questions, learn. Do you get what I mean? Is it also like a fear of communication? Cuz are they afraid of like the same way we were afraid of like um going to like somewhere that's way out of London that they would view us differently or see us different or treat us differently. Are people that are you know not really in touch or around or speak to Muslims are they afraid of that like response too? Cuz I would understand it if they were >> they've been fed all this information >> that they get from the media from whatever it is. Yeah. They've been fed this information. I'm not just saying the past year.

[00:53:10]>> Yeah.

[00:53:11]>> Since 2001, let's just say. Yeah.

[00:53:14]>> They were fed this narrative that Muslims are the bad guys constantly.

[00:53:20]>> And there's like a there's a fear under all of that.

[00:53:22]>> I get that.

[00:53:23]>> I get that.

[00:53:24]>> So the same way we feel fear going to certain areas, >> they probably feel fear as well, but it comes out as anger, comes out as prejudice, it comes out as hate. when you all you need to do is just really and truly just sit down and have a conversation, man. Do you know what I mean? I feel like in order for for people to be more tolerant, I think they just need to integrate with each other and and just talk. And I feel like Muslims do that.

[00:53:48]>> Yeah.

[00:53:48]>> Muslims have houses, they have properties, they have businesses. They are very much integrated in society. Do you know what I mean?

[00:53:56]>> Yeah. How many Muslims are you seeing out and about every day just living life, you know, building uh lives for their families here and stuff like that?

[00:54:04]What is there to be afraid of?

[00:54:06]>> Muslims are literally everywhere.

[00:54:07]>> We're just normal people.

[00:54:08]>> Do you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, it's just for me it's just I think there's a there's a fear on both sides.

[00:54:13]>> Yeah.

[00:54:13]>> There was a stat that I saw. I think it was on the report and it was about um I'm sorry I don't have the exact quote of the stat but it was about >> um a certain number of people feel that Islam is um like taking over and then there was a bit in the report as well that talked about how there was a number of people who feel that there are certain no-go zones in the UK where they can't go to >> who said they can't go >> because of it's like under Sharia for which I can't like you know how you just said yeah I can't I can't excuse it because it's >> Sharia law man in the UK where >> for me that one I'm like come on really come on it's >> at your big age yeah >> did you know yeah funnily enough fun fact there's like >> 67 million people in the United Kingdom yeah do you know how many of those are actually Muslim Take a wild guess.

[00:55:15]>> Out of the 67 million.

[00:55:16]>> 67 million or is it 64? One of the two.

[00:55:19]64 or 67? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's 67.

[00:55:22]In the entire United Kingdom, that's how many people there are in total.

[00:55:26]>> 67 million.

[00:55:27]>> Guess how many are Muslim?

[00:55:30]>> Out of 67 million, two million. Two million Muslim. Four >> four million Muslims. Okay.

[00:55:40]>> Out of 67. Do you know that's like 6%.

[00:55:43]small small number.

[00:55:44]>> 6% in the entirety of the United Kingdom.

[00:55:48]>> You're in the same minority. We're literally a minority.

[00:55:51]>> 67. Well, not even 10 million. Not even 10 million. Not even 5 million.

[00:55:56]>> Yeah.

[00:55:59]>> Not even half of that. 4 million Muslims.

[00:56:06]>> Just trying to rack my brain.

[00:56:07]>> Wrap your head around that. Deep it.

[00:56:09]>> Because they fear that Islam's taken over and stuff like that.

[00:56:12]For what? Bradford, >> I think if if if we're thinking about society today, Yeah.

[00:56:18]>> in terms of who practices their religion >> unapologetically, that's Muslims, bro.

[00:56:24]>> 100%.

[00:56:26]>> Do you get what I'm saying?

[00:56:27]Unapologetically practicing. Yeah. And constantly cover like Muslim women come snow, rain, sun, like they they're wearing that and that hijab and that. I was seeing women wearing full nikab in the heatwave and I think for them they just can't wrap their heads around like wow like no matter what they are sticking to their religion.

[00:56:51]>> Yeah. That level of like perseverance.

[00:56:53]>> It's that level of >> it's kind of alien isn't it?

[00:56:55]>> Yeah. It's that level of they're very strong in their religion.

[00:56:58]>> Yeah.

[00:56:59]>> But I don't know why they feel so threatened.

[00:57:01]>> Yeah. But I mean you you okay somebody who's never exercised in their life Yeah. is going to feel a bit intimidated by an athlete.

[00:57:12]>> Don't you do you get what I mean? That level of discipline, if you have none of that level of discipline, you're going to see that as oh my god, that's extreme, that's scary, that's oh my god.

[00:57:22]Just get more discipline in your life.

[00:57:25]>> Have more perseverance. Have more like like be more uh focused and you know goal oriented in what you want in your life. And then that way you won't see people who are equally as goal oriented or equally as steadfast or as equally as you know disciplined as intimidating. So how many people are CEOs in the world?

[00:57:47]>> Not many because compared to the rest of the population who's got that amount of drive who's got that amount of like uh push who's got that amount of like I'm going to stick to this and I'm going to make it work and I'm do you get what I'm saying? That's why there's not that many entrepreneurs if you compare it to the general public >> because not everybody has that level of >> drive and determination.

[00:58:07]>> Determination. That's the word.

[00:58:10]>> So you're going to see Islam as oh my god she's outside in this heatwave wearing a nab. It's her choice.

[00:58:16]Literally she wants to.

[00:58:17]>> That's the thing. You know what it is?

[00:58:18]Like that woman who bugged out when she saw you on the train.

[00:58:20]>> Yeah.

[00:58:22]>> Or the people who were online and they get triggered every time they see a Muslim woman. For example, like uh Muriam who was a guest here. Yeah. She was talking about >> she made a real on Instagram where she was talking about a women's only gym in in Sudi. It wasn't even here.

[00:58:37]>> Yeah.

[00:58:37]>> She's in Sudi Arabia. Yeah.

[00:58:39]>> She's talking about a women's only gym and people lost their minds.

[00:58:44]>> People lost their minds.

[00:58:46]>> They were even getting onto her for wearing like a modest um swimsuit like burkinis or whatever. like they can't wrap their heads around the fact that Muslim women choose to be modest. Um, but in my mind I'm like, are you going to lose sleep over like is it why does it concern you this much?

[00:59:04]>> Do you feel like children are going to be Muslim?

[00:59:07]>> What I'm wearing, what's that got to do with you?

[00:59:09]>> Maybe they feel like if you normalize being modest that their children will feel like they have to.

[00:59:16]>> But like equally equally equally like we live in the United Kingdom, right?

[00:59:22]for my generation now, our generation, we're so used to seeing people in the summertime wearing like booty shorts, wearing like like skin out, like we're so used to seeing it. For us, it's no longer a shock for us, right?

[00:59:36]>> I guess you could say I would love for my child not to normalize that, but that's the choice I've made by living in this country.

[00:59:43]>> I'm willing to accept that. Right.

[00:59:45]>> So now, if I choose to do the opposite and I choose to cover my body, >> it's still a shock every time for them.

[00:59:51]Why?

[00:59:51]>> Yeah, that's the thing. They haven't gotten used to it.

[00:59:53]>> So, do they feel shocked at the sight of a Muslim woman?

[00:59:56]>> Do they think that assimilation or like you know integration and all those things like coming into this country and this different culture that we now have to be exactly like you in order to show you that you know we belong here?

[01:00:11]>> Cuz now I'm like if I was to skin out would you see me as British?

[01:00:16]>> How do you get what I mean? is you have to assimilate, if that's the word.

[01:00:21]>> Yeah.

[01:00:21]>> You have to. What they want is they want Muslims to to be exactly like them.

[01:00:26]>> So you want me to drop my religion then?

[01:00:29]>> That's what you're saying.

[01:00:30]>> That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

[01:00:32]>> And now my question is >> Muslim cuz Muslims Yeah.

[01:00:35]>> It's not just the way we dress.

[01:00:37]>> We don't gamble.

[01:00:39]>> Yeah.

[01:00:39]>> We don't drink.

[01:00:40]>> Yeah.

[01:00:41]>> We don't take interest. We don't do interest, bro.

[01:00:46]We don't eat pork. Did I say that?

[01:00:47]>> No.

[01:00:49]>> So like we're very when I say very particular Yeah.

[01:00:53]>> in our dos and don'ts and people get triggered by that. They get triggered at the fact that we only eat halal meat.

[01:01:02]>> They get triggered that you won't find us backing beers and chugging on whatever it is and having a good time or workplaces.

[01:01:10]>> Muslims. If you're saying we go into the pubs for drinks, are you going to expect a Muslim to come with you? No, >> we're not. Right.

[01:01:15]>> So, it's all these little small interactions that you have with Muslims where you're thinking, "Ah, they're doing too much.

[01:01:20]>> They're too restricted. They're too this. They're too that." But, you know, there's a flip side to that, you know, because then when you see the mo that goes with them to the pub, they're going to say, "He's not really that Muslim, is he?" So, now they're going to lose respect for you in a sense of like you've now abandoned your values and you've abandoned the things that you care about in order to be at the pub with them.

[01:01:38]>> There's also a respect.

[01:01:39]>> Yeah. where it's like, okay, I respect that you're sticking to to your to your values and your religion because they'll start asking questions like, I swear you're not allowed to swear you're not allowed to do that.

[01:01:48]>> Do you know how many times I've experienced it where people are like, "Oh, I swear it's Ramadan." Imagine a non-Muslim coming up to you and say to you, "I swear it's Ramadan. Aren't you meant to be fasting?"

[01:01:56]>> Yeah.

[01:01:57]>> It's Do you know how mad that is? So, I guess like I don't know, man.

[01:02:03]I think everyone should just do them. Do what you want. Enjoy your life. Be, you know, mindful. I think I I feel like at the core of it, >> people need to have critical thinking.

[01:02:14]>> Absolutely.

[01:02:15]>> Because if you're just going to sit there and take and let the media influence your mind, you're finished.

[01:02:21]I'm not going to lie. I stopped watching the news years back, man. Yeah, same. I don't watch the news either. I've stopped watching the news, man. I remember being a kid and watching what's been happening in like Guantanamo Bay and like the Iraq war. Like we grew up through all of that. It was traumatic. So from young I think the innocence was taken from me in a sense that like from young I realized hey the bad guys that they're talking about that's us.

[01:02:51]>> Yeah I might not be from that country but >> these that's us the Muslims they talking about that's us bro from young.

[01:03:01]from young and 911 happened when I was what eight eight years old >> 2001 I was eight years old I understood who I was >> I was seven >> do you get it >> so yeah it's one of them ones where it's like it's been over 20 years how are people not understanding how the media works and how propaganda works and >> how are people still letting things like this influence their minds when they can just literally chat to their Muslim neighbor and you know what I Yeah. I I think we should be a lot more what is the what is it called? The British values.

[01:03:41]>> Tolerant.

[01:03:42]>> Tolerant. Yeah. I was going to say I was actually going to say tolerant, but I was going to bring up the British values because >> I think >> if we're going to say British values, I think everybody should embody it because you can't pick and choose when you want the British values. Do you get what I mean? Freedom to practice religion. But then why are the Muslims like do you get what I mean? freedom to practice religion, but then you got three women on a stage wearing uh an abaya and then taking it off to show what uh freedom >> that they that they're free now, that they're not oppressed anymore, but like that's not what it was to begin with. Do you get what I mean?

[01:04:15]>> If you're going to do British values of respect, let's respect each other's neighbors. Do you get what I mean? Let's respect people when we've got our dogs and keep them on leashes if we're going to train our dogs to attack Muslim women. M >> like if we're going to talk about uh democracy, let's all be allowed to choose. Do you get what I mean?

[01:04:32]>> Yeah.

[01:04:34]>> Yeah. I just want to end it on this one note.

[01:04:36]>> Before we before you find that, Sylvia, before you end it on that note, Yeah.

[01:04:40]All I'm going to say is I'm not going anywhere. I'm here. Can't get rid of me.

[01:04:46]I'm British and I'm equally as British as you are because you can't take that away from me. Even if I weren't born here, it is what it is. I'm British and that is that I'm not going anywhere.

[01:04:57]This is my home. I don't know anything else.

[01:05:02]Um, I'm just going to read something out quickly.

[01:05:06]>> Yeah.

[01:05:09]Someone said, "Hi, I love you guys." So, I just wanted to send this message because this topic is close to my heart.

[01:05:14]I am Christian but East African/American living in London for 15 plus years. The last few years here have made me so concerned for my Muslim friends and I've had to think twice about wearing a scarf over my head because it's cold or for traditional church events. Even in those moments, I can feel the change in how people view me and treat me with a scarf on versus scarf off. I hope things will change and I try to protect my Muslim friends when we're out. I find myself frequently defending Islam whenever I'm met with some Sorry for the language. Who wants to spew some stupid rhetoric?

[01:05:48]Um she also says because we shared um all the comments that we get as well on our story. She responded with I also see this behavior growing in lots of western countries and it's so obviously coming from a fear in Western culture. Um but it's so tragic because it's also such a projection of the extreme and increasingly problematic behavior in Christian cultures. All religions can harbor badness and these sickos need a wakeup call to their own culture before they spread their hatred to others. I'm so sorry Muslim women have to deal with this and I love your podcast so please don't let these haters get you down.

[01:06:19]>> What a sweetheart.

[01:06:21]>> Yeah. I think it goes to show that if you do see even if you're even if you're not Muslim I feel like you need to help educate certain people when they're saying things in certain spaces as well.

[01:06:33]>> Yeah.

[01:06:33]>> I think that helps. I feel like the more people can kind of combat all these views the better >> and call it out.

[01:06:39]>> Yeah. Call it out >> the same way you would call it out if it was anyone else. Why is it different when it's a Muslim?

[01:06:46]>> Yeah.

[01:06:46]>> Do you get what I mean?

[01:06:47]>> Yeah.

[01:06:48]>> Call it out. That's such a beautiful message. Thank you to that listener.

[01:06:51]Honestly.

[01:06:51]>> Yeah. Thank you for that message.

[01:06:53]Honestly, >> before we wrap up, one last really important word from the British Muslim Trust. Here's where things stand right now. According to the Home Office figures, of all the religious hate crimes recorded, 45% were directed at Muslims or people perceived to be Muslim. Let that sink in. That's the highest of any faith group by a long way. And it's not standing still either.

[01:07:21]There's a 19% increase since the year before.

[01:07:26]>> Here's the thing. Even those figures don't capture the real scale of it. The British Muslim Trust's own research found that more than half of Muslims, 56% experienced prejudice based on their religion in just the last year, but most of it never gets reported. In fact, only 7% of people who experience prejudice actually reported it to a hate crime reporting body. So, the official stats are really just the tip of the iceberg.

[01:07:49]The true picture is so much worse because so much of it goes unrecorded.

[01:07:54]And that gap between what's actually happening and what's being reported is exactly the problem that we need to close. Tackling anti-Muslim hate as a society means that the government has to do more. There's no getting around that.

[01:08:10]But here's the key bit. The government can only act on what is actually shown as evidence. If it's not reported, it's invisible.

[01:08:20]And if it's invisible, nothing changes.

[01:08:22]So when you do report, you're not just flagging one incident. You're adding to the body of evidence that forces this to be taken seriously. That's why reporting to the British Muslim Trust is so crucial. Every single report builds a case for change. Now, we know reporting can feel daunting, so it's worth being really clear about something. When you report to the British Muslim Trust, they do not share any identifying details about you. No names, no personal information, nothing that identifies you. They share the numbers, not your story, just the data that proves the scale of the problem. So you can report knowing that your privacy is protected.

[01:08:59]So if it's happened to you or to someone that you know, please report it. You can use the form at britishmusimrust.co.uk or get in touch by phone or WhatsApp once again on 08081723524.

[01:09:15]Your report counts. Every single one helps to build the bigger picture. It honestly really does matter.

[01:09:23]>> I have to wrap up, man.

[01:09:24]>> Are you going anywhere?

[01:09:27]>> You know what? I'm all right for a few more years. You know, like I'll be here.

[01:09:30]I'll be here in that. Do you know what I mean? I'll be all right.

[01:09:34]>> Are you going anywhere?

[01:09:35]>> I'm never going anywhere. You You lot are stuck with me through thick and thin.

[01:09:40]>> Oh, don't kill me. I hope you guys enjoyed this uh episode. Shout out to the British Muslim Trust once again.

[01:09:46]>> Absolutely.

[01:09:46]>> Uh for being a partner in this episode.

[01:09:48]Uh, please share your thoughts in the comments below. And guys, don't forget to check out the description box for all the information that you need.

[01:09:55]>> And we hope you have a fantastic week.