This dialogue provides a necessary deconstruction of how socioeconomic privilege gatekeeps the trans experience, grounding abstract identity politics in material reality. It successfully bridges the gap between personal struggle and systemic critique.
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Being Trans, Privileges & More | NYACAST w/ @KatfeFoxTaleAdded:
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the inya cast. I accidentally made a podcast and today we are joined by cat also known as capp fox tail and uh yeah we we did a video a while ago reacting to memes but uh why don't you introduce yourself to my uh community?
>> Yeah, sure. Memes totally memes and not just toxic posts from toxic sis people.
Yeah, it was just it's silly silly little memes.
>> Yeah.
>> Anyways, hi.
>> Hi everyone. My name is Cat. I'm a trans fox YouTuber over here on Twitch where I usually stream a lot of Warframe. And over on YouTube, I also react to usually trans memes. I try to keep it like kind of nice and light-hearted. Always talking about stuff whenever I get the chance to. And yeah, the the the very lovely Nara has invited me on here to uh Yep.
Yeah, >> today is borrow day and there are a lot of good a lot of good mods.
>> Sorry.
>> What is is that Warframe stuff?
>> Yes, it is.
>> Gotcha.
How How is the uh the Warframe werewolf hot?
No. Oh my god. [ __ ] the lesbians have been eating for the past like two months with Warframe. Are you kidding me? First we got that trailer and then we got Va.
Oh my god, she during lesbian week, we literally got an emote of a woman eviscerating you and then licking the blood off of her claws. Like how how can you not like uh >> uh uh interesting. Warframe is for the girlies.
>> Warframe's for the gays. There's there's something for everybody in there.
>> Yeah, I mainly play uh Valerant. I don't know if you know this. This is like also like a very gay game.
It's almost like that's kind of how we originally met each other.
>> Yeah. Wait, did we do we we didn't quue into your match because you're you >> I sniped you a couple times.
>> Was it like Tik Tok content or something?
>> No, I say we found each other basically through yapping over whatever game it is that we were playing >> on Tik Tok.
>> Yeah.
>> And then both found out that the other played Valerant and we're like, "Oh."
So, whenever I finally got an EU account, I started sniping you just a little bit because >> Yeah, sniping's fun sometimes.
>> Q sniping, not stream sniping.
>> Well, you you you're stream sniping me.
>> No, just keep sniping. I just want to get into the game. I don't really care to know where the [ __ ] you are in the game.
>> Not >> I got to I got to assert dominance in a very fair way because if I can't then uh then I can't really brag about it.
>> Mhm.
Yeah, I I'm I don't know. I just I like the silliness when it comes to like Valerant, like the community aspect, but sometimes sometimes it gets to me as well. Uh >> yeah, that's why I quit playing.
>> Yeah, >> it just got really toxic for a hot minute. And I think that was just mostly around the election.
>> Mhm. Mhm. So, I had to take a little break and step out.
>> Yeah, that makes sense. It always sucks like when it when it comes to transphobia or like the specific type of toxicity that you get in in certain games is typically just the same over and over again. And after a while, it's just like if there's if there's one of those days where it just happens back to back, it's like, damn.
Damn, I missed the silent lobbies, but also silent lobbies are not good content.
>> Yeah, true. I was going to say I slightly miss the people who were unusually sus about my voice. Uh, but then again, at the same time, I don't miss the people who are constantly asking me if I was a fanboy, and then when I would say no, they would just start shouting slurs at me. So, I I'm kind of good on that one.
>> Yeah. I mean, I think when it comes to like Valerant, there's a specific or there's like a a really like in general type of love when it comes to fanboys, but also I cure into sis women as well, and they don't typically uh like they they don't get asked if if they have fanboy as often as I do. And >> that was the number one crowd who kept asking me that question.
>> Yeah.
Yeah, for me it's like I I kind of play into it because, you know, it can be silly sometimes, but it's but I wish it was more mixed, right? I wish I also had like the unflavored misogyny sometimes.
Yeah. I I don't know. I'm being reminded of the time where I had the the sis lesbian who was being extremely transphobic in my lobby, and >> that was enough to make me quit one day.
So, just kind of like move away from Valor and I was just like, "All right, I'm done."
>> Yeah.
>> Was being transphobic during Pride Month.
>> Yeah. That shit's painful.
>> Mhm.
Sometimes sometimes I queue into like all girls lobbies and then I'm I'm always like nervous to speak because I know if I'm going to like start speaking they're going to be like, "Oh no, I'm damn I thought it was like an all girls lobby and now we have like and it's like these things hit me harder than you know when like some dude is like, "Oh, are you a fanboy? Oh my god, I love fanboys like you know."
>> Mhm. Mhm. I think that's why like because of that one event I anytime I see the lesbian flag now like my heart just sinks and I'm just like >> oh you disappeared.
>> Oh I disappeared. Why did I disappear?
Hello.
>> You just Damn. Trans day of >> I'm just a voice now.
>> Yeah. Wait. Can I refresh this?
>> It's still working on my end supposedly.
>> Okay. Get back.
>> There we go. I refresh the processes.
>> I'm back. Okay.
>> Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.
>> No, it's all good. I It's just one of the things of like anytime I see the lesbian flag, I like my heart sinks just a little bit because I'm like, [ __ ] am I going to have to deal with another like turf?
>> It's just uh >> Yeah.
>> So, yeah. Sometimes sometimes when you get like transphobia from sis women and like especially lesbians, it just it hits so much harder.
>> Mhm. Because it's like we're kind of fighting for like the same rights and so on and you're also breaking gender uh stereotypes and expectations.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. I ended up matching with uh the person's partner not long after that and I was just like hello and they're just like staying away from you. I'm like yeah you can [ __ ] stay away from you. I don't care.
>> Oh my god.
>> How did they know though?
>> Uh I don't know. It's just one of the things of like I think I might have had the trans flag on at that time cuz it was once again during Pride.
>> Mhm.
>> So that or they just thought I was just like some [ __ ] weirdo who was just like just staring at them being like I know what you did. I know who you are. I know what you have done. I can't forget your username.
So, >> got shing the person.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Like, it's just it it sucks so much. Um >> Mhm.
>> Like I I have people who are like, "Oh, yeah, you should just like remove the uh the trans flag and you know, then put like any other banner on." But it's like there are also people who just get like bothered by me speaking. Um, and I don't think I should have to like hide my trans identity.
I think some people should just like stop being shitty.
I agree like a thousand%. Like it's not that hard to just accept people for their gender identity, whether they're trans or not or just anything else about them. Like it's >> Yeah.
>> It takes zero energy to be a nice person.
>> Mhm.
I mean, you know, that's it's kind of like a a big thing that I uh also like I kind of get it from like a a general sense of like yeah, you know, if you don't want to deal with transphobia, you got to meet all of like the expectations for like sis women and then, you know, pass and blend in and never actually reveal that you're trans. And then but like I don't really think that's like a solution. Also voice training is really hard and uh it's difficult to like meet societal expectations and >> Oh yeah I think. Go ahead. Sorry.
>> And essentially give up a part of who you are just to I don't know have like some normality.
>> Yeah. And that's kind of the thing, like some of us, myself included, don't want to voice train because we like the way that our voice already is and already appreciate how our voice is.
>> And trying to force people to fit in, whether it be on how they appear or how they sound or and the activities that they do, is just bigoted. It's active like violence. And you know, we see this in a lot of very like various groups of, you know, forcing women of color to straighten their hair or to like shave their hair down to fit like a white society. And trying to force trans fe into also fitting to what it means to be a very euroentric woman rather than letting them be themselves is just extremely harmful.
So, and it kind of the same thing with like and this is not sorry just not for trans fans but like also trans mass people trying to like force them to be you know the stereotypical toxic masculinity and forcing non-binary people to have to be androgynous. like it's people should be able to express themselves and express their gender however they want and they don't need to feel pressure to conform to society's rules. Like if somebody wants to do that stuff, that's great. That's fantastic.
They can do that. But they shouldn't be forced into those roles because that's what people are telling them to do.
>> Yeah. There's just like always like the sense of like well it is easier to I guess have like this form of like assimilation that the oppressed and trying to like appeal to the oppressor and to like change the system and so on.
But it's like it kind of feels like giving up and it also makes you miserable because you're trying to fit a different box now, right? like as a as a trans woman, I tried to adhere to what it means to be a man and so on and I was like, "Okay, I'm not really happy." And then I'm transitioning and I was like, "Okay, now you need to adhere to what it means to be a woman, but because you know you can't get pregnant, that means you will always be invalid." I was like, "Okay, so like why should I force myself into that box and meet like this very specific type of idea of what it means to be a woman just to get like a little bit more of like an acceptance?
Yeah. And God, it's kind of I've talked about this a little bit, but that making that concession and trying to do all that is just honestly allowing fashion to like continuously spread. Like whenever you I understand for some people it's a safety thing and wanting to be able to feel safe and not have to be seen because of the place that they are in is extremely dangerous and so sometimes it's better to blend in. Yeah, >> that's fine. I'm not going to argue with that kind with like that person because your safety is far more important. But when you start trying to push that onto others, that's where it becomes an issue because you're now now you're doing the work of fascist and of the patriarchy and white supremacist. you're actively now doing the whole well the leopard eating face party won't eat my face if I you know tell other people to just conform and it's just yeah there's always like this sense in like trans spaces where it's like well if these trans women if all trans women would meet uh the sis society societal expectations, then we would have all of these rights. But it's because of like those trans people who don't pass that is actually the problem and that is making the trans people look bad. And it's like you're just victim blaming. You're blaming trans people who don't have access to like all of the the health care, maybe don't want to, you know, change everything to adhere to like all of these unrealistic beauty expectations and blame them for fascists doing fascism.
>> Yeah. Uh, oh my god, the uh the trans women for Trump and Kelly Katigan just being right-wing grifters and just constantly trying to like appeal to the group of people who are actively going to take away their rights. So, it's just >> yeah, >> it's not just like just those people.
There's so many more people and it's not just it's just gross.
So >> yeah, I mean like I I get I get like the the mentality of like, oh yeah, I wish I wouldn't experience transphobia. I wish I would just like experience normal misogyny and, you know, wouldn't have to constantly debate my existence and justify, you know, who I am and constantly be invalidated and called a man or whatnot.
But I don't really think that you're going to get peace from all of that even if you do meet all of like that these expectations because there's sis women who are also getting invalidated and it's like chasing after an ideal that doesn't actually exist.
And then you turn around and point at the people who don't, you know, have like the the pretty privileges like you do or something. And I was like, "Oh, it's it's you. You are the you're at at fault." And it's just I guess trying trying to be the oppressor so bad for once because if you're a trans uh woman, you're kind of, you know, at the bottom of the the social hierarchy and a lot of >> I'll say it. A lot just want to punch down, I guess.
>> Yeah. Well, I'll say this.
Uh, I don't know if this is a hot take or not, but medically transitioning is a privilege. Just straight up, getting on to HRT is a privilege. getting on to any kind of surgery is a privilege because quite frankly in all honesty a lot of people cannot due to the fact that either one they can't afford to because they don't have medical insurance or they're not really able to because of they live with parents who are extremely transphobic or two they are in a country where transitioning is either illegal or it's just behind a bunch of barriers where it's extremely like you have to be on years long waiting list to be even like to even be able to get HRT or to get any kind of surgeries. So, it's just one of the things of like saying that being a trans medicalist is just extremely gross and disgusting and >> it's classes. All it's really Yeah. It's it's classes and >> yeah, >> it's one of the things of just like when you finally understand that and realize where like like yeah, it's just it's classes. It's one of the things of like it just harms the community in so many ways. And quite frankly, it also hurts sis women because sis women I like I know sis women who are on spiro and who also have to take estrogen to kind of help themselves out or whether it becomes uh I see that somebody asking what's transmedist again. Transmetist is basically you're saying that you are only trans if you're on HRT and you've had surgeries. So you are setting a bar of what it means to be trans. Also, you need to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. That's like one of the >> the starter things. It's like, oh yeah, gender dysphoria is necessary for you to be trans. And then, you know, you need all of like the the surgeries because, you know, you need to quote unquote actually transition from male to female or from female to to male, which also invalidates non-binary people and, you know.
>> Mhm.
which look >> yeah gatekeeping uh people also call transmen medicalist Drew scum so >> so interchangeable terms uh but yeah it hurts women especially hurts women of color because again a lot of like beauty standards that society is currently pushing especially here like in the United States and I would assume in Europe is like a euroentric white standard so >> like been faced didn't know uh you know having to have certain highlights features highlighted and it ends up causing a like a huge problem for especially black women to be constantly targeted by these transphobic laws. So it's yeah it anti-trans laws hurts more than just trans people. It hurts a lot of uh a lot of other people as well.
Not a lot of people that like uh the system cares about though.
Uh yeah, that is that's kind of like the main problem. It doesn't hurt the elite. It doesn't hurt the the oppressors. It doesn't hurt the people who are pushing against all of the the progress that society has made actually in order to, you know, fight for for women's rights and trans rights, interex people.
And it's it's really it's really frustrating to to see like the uh this infighting within like the the trans community and this like split with their people, you know, trying to advance and uh get more acceptance for trans people. And the other ones are like, "No, we got to assimilate and we got to actually like stay in our niche." And and then there's like always like this goalpost of like, okay, everybody has like a very specific goalpost that needs to be met in order for them to view trans people as valid.
But they pretend that it's like universal. And it's like, okay, if that point is mad at this point, I can call trans women.
Mhm.
And and then they expect every trans woman to meet this goalpost, but even if that goal post would be met, it would still not satisfy the conservatives and some because we don't meet reproductive purposes.
It's not just the conservatives, it's also some liberals as well. Like >> Oh, yeah. Like it's one of the things of like uh people who just don't understand what being trans is think that they then have to apply whatever rules that they want to trans people.
>> Yeah.
And if they don't meet said rules or said like uh check marks, then that's not, you know, like they're not man enough.
They're not woman enough. They're not, you know, non-binary enough. And so therefore, I now have the right to misgender them because I don't perceive them as being enough of their gender to meet my standard. And it's just like that's not at all the case. Like >> yeah, >> just allow people to be people.
>> And it's also I think that when it comes to transphobia, a lot of it is just like trying to make misogyny sound more reasonable.
>> Mhm. It's like, well, sis women get invalidated if they are, I don't know, overweight or if they um, you know, can't meet their quoteunquote reproductive purposes and so on.
So, like now you're just repackaging that as like transphobia and to be like, "Oh, no. I view you as a as a man until a certain point is met or I view you as other until a certain point is m and it's like well that's just it's just misogyny and uh that hurts everybody that hurts sis people and you know we are kind of like the I guess we are an incredibly easy target and uh we don't have like a a big platform. We don't we we we're not even allowed to to advocate for our rights. Uh because that's that's making the trans people look bad. Actually, if you're too vocal, you're making it your entire personality. You need everybody to walk over you. That's how you get acceptance, obviously. And it's just >> Mhm.
>> It's so frustrating because you continuously see the same things and you also see how it's just repackaging the same things used against sis women.
And I was like, "Okay, this just feels, you know, way >> abuse against people of color."
>> Yeah.
>> It's just it's all of this hatred and a lot like pretty much all this bigotry is just rooted in racism.
>> It's not just rooted in misogyny. It's all ties back to racism.
>> Yeah.
Yeah. It's like it's just trying to I mean the entire like turf gender critical movement of like oh we need to push all of the women out. All of the people need to be pushed out except for like a a specific type of uh of woman when it comes to bathrooms and changing rooms and so on.
And uh you know in in the UK when you look at like the the women who celebrate the reduction of uh what it means to be a woman to like gits and so on, you see a lot of misogynistic conservative middle-aged white women.
>> Mhm.
Yeah. Oh god, there was something else I was going to say. Like they're also pushing out lesbians and so on who um are, you know, mask a little bit more mask have like shorter hair.
And that gets like cheered on as like, oh yeah, we're doing we're doing justice because like we're we're uh we're protecting the real women or something. And you saw that with like Iman Khalif where you know JK Rowling still says no that's actually a man.
>> Yeah. This all just makes me think of if I'm not making some old white lady clutch her pearls and I'm not actually truly living my life.
>> Yeah.
>> Listen. If I if I can't make an old white lady clutch her pearls cuz she's like I'm not living my life like to the fullest. So if I Yeah. Oh my god. It's just so frustrating when like other trans people can't see that because like how do you go through the journey of transitioning and see like all of like these systemic issues the the system work against you and not develop any form of like sentience and like realize how everything is like kind of you know >> kind of kind of working together.
>> It's like one of two camps, right?
Either one, they're not affected by it because they are passing and nobody no, you know, nobody can tell. Uh or it's the other group of the people who think, you know, if they try hard enough, if they if they work, if they just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and work hard enough, then then they'll be >> Yeah. uh then they'll they'll finally uh be accepted and it's just like no >> I could do it. Why can't you? It must be because you're uh lazy and you don't want to put in the effort. I I uh tried really hard and I fought for this and I deserve to be accepted and included but you don't because you haven't struggled like me actually.
>> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, it's just pulling the ladder up and it's just >> it kind of it also kind of sounds like how you know cap this capitalistic society it talks about uh you know poor people, homeless people and and so on where it's like well I'm struggling uh and and I managed to like put in all of the the effort and have like a a home.
Why can't you? It's just there's also a lot of like abbleism going on and it's just >> I the billionaire have I would pulled myself up by my bootstraps by having a you know $30,000 uh trust fund that my parents gave me.
What? Wait, you don't also have that? Oh well, that's a skill issue. That's not at all a societal issue.
Yeah, >> maybe if you worked hard enough, you could also be in a position where I started by my parents who gave me like enough money to start off on my own.
>> Every now and then on Tik Tok, they're like u videos and it's like I retired at age 25. This is how I did it. So, I worked for the company of my dad.
>> Yeah.
>> Like, what?
>> This is how I retired at the age of 25.
I simply just had a $100,000 trust fund from my father.
>> Yeah.
>> And then I worked at his company for 4 years.
>> God, >> I worked at Blizzard for 7 years.
>> Oh my god. It's just it's just it's it's really frustrating how like everything is like coming together and like people are just people just don't care enough or they just feel like it's hopeless so why bother?
Yeah. Well, yeah.
I was going to say I'm just being reminded of like the conversation that we had in the video about just like how toxic passing is and it's just >> it it just >> it's gross. Like there's >> so many levels.
>> There's just also like so much hatred within the trans community for trans people, especially trans women who do not meet these societal expectations.
>> Mhm.
And as somebody who struggles with voice dysphoria, who is like very open about, you know, voice dysphoria and who has worked with uh, you know, professional vocal coaches and so on and still doesn't meet all of like the expectations.
Like it's just it's really it's really sad to see that like well you put in the effort but you still don't meet it and you you wish you could meet these uh expectations because then maybe you would have like a little bit of I don't know a a little bit less stress through your daily life. Maybe you wouldn't get like misgendered as often.
But then you also have like people who are just sitting there being like, "Oh, why don't you use a voice changer? Why do you even like create content? Why do you even like do all of these things?
Why do you, you know, you should just like figure it out?" And it's like, I have a German accent. For me, it's like I would have to lose more of my accent in order to meet like the uh US type of like a voice that you that you often hear.
And I think that's kind of that's also like kind of uh kind of messed up because some languages are just, you know, they just sound darker.
They sound more masculine. They're placed differently and so on. So, you kind of have to to figure out how to speak um a a certain way in order to get genders correctly.
It's just uh as an American, Americans are dumb.
They I literally don't understand that other languages exist. like the number one spoken language here in the United States. It's not English, it's Spanish.
And it's just it's I like on some level I hate the country. I I hate what my country's become because it's just >> it's so stupid.
>> We truly do like it like we truly do center ourselves in a lot of things.
This is like cuz I I've heard the trope of the American tourist who goes over to like Germany or France and expects everyone to be speaking English but surprise surprise they're speaking their native language and it's just like >> I went to the country of Europe.
>> Yeah. Oh my god. They >> in Europe they don't even have bottled water.
>> Have bring your own water bottle. Please just bring your own water bottle. Um, it's just, yeah, I when I say like I hate what my country's become because I really want to see the country be like become better and just the way that it's going is so Yeah.
>> Yeah. I think the start you only got up because you wanted the vaxes. Oh, no, no, no. You're completely correct. We've been like this from the start. Are you kidding me? Manifest destiny and like pushing indigenous people off of their land uh as we did westward expansion completely and wiping out the natives uh population here in the New England area because uh of religious beliefs and thinking that we're way better than everybody else. slavery up until 1860 1870 roughly and then having segregation all the way up until the 70s and up yeah up through up into the 70s America has been completely and totally has been running like fashion like let's be real here Nazi Germany got a lot of its laws and a lot of its like ideas from America from American racist from Jim Crow Oh yeah, exactly. Jim Crow laws like a lot of the racism cuz that's the thing is like a lot of Americans like oh my god this is just like Nazi Germany. It's like no >> it's just like America >> this is America.
>> So trust me when I say like we've been heading in this direction like it's been becoming worse. That is from my living memory. Uh but yes, the United States has been god awful since its inception.
Yeah.
I mean, even even like the concept of white, like it doesn't really exist in in Europe because it's like, oh yeah, like the Irish hate the uh the people in in England and so on.
But, you know, it's just like this ask versus them mentality that just happened and based on on skin color. I mean like even what what is like included in the definition of like white has changed and been adjusted.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Irish people and Italians and Polish people were not seen as white in living memory.
>> Weren't people from Egypt considered white >> at some point?
>> I have no idea.
>> I think I think there was something.
Wait, can I No, they weren't.
>> No, they weren't. Okay, >> wait, wait, wait.
>> All I know is my Irish ancestry is uh very much just like [ __ ] the English.
So, >> in the United States, federal standards and the US Census Bureau officially classify people with origin in Egypt and the broader uh Middle Eastern and North Africa region as white.
>> Oh.
Oh, I wonder if that's to encompass Israel.
>> And then >> that's a that's a question.
>> I wonder if that's to encompass Israel and then the greater Israel project.
I'm not entirely sure about that. I would have to look into that.
>> Yeah, I'm just thinking about that cuz I'm just like, yeah, in case people wonder where I stand free Palestine. It Yes. It It's just Oh my god.
So that that's like that would be my question.
>> Yeah.
>> Is if they're including that area to appease like Israel working on their like Israel the uh greater Israeli project. So because that's supposed to take up like a good portion of that area.
>> I can't believe you just got called a catgirl.
Damn it. I can't zoom in because if I zoom in, it's just going to be like my nose on the screen to be like, "All right, >> cuz we already know I'm too big on the screen. I had to shrink myself." All right, I had to use my little fox powers.
>> Going to change your name to have a cat tail.
>> Oh my god.
Oh, sorry. I can't. No, it's all good. I the most people call me a cat. Uh, and some people spell my name as cat, like with a C, and I was like, is this cat with a K? But, you know, I'll take cat with a C. At least at least you got that right.
So, >> close enough.
>> Close enough. I'll I'll take it.
I am.
>> Yeah.
At least I uh God, it reminds me of the time that a friend of mine who was a wolf girl got mistaken to be a fox girl with me and I was like, "Hello, fellow fox girl. How's it going?"
as I sent her that post.
So, I mean, at least you meow.
Yeah.
>> You make fox noises.
Uh, that's just screaming, right?
>> I mean, any form of noise. I mean, I I cackle.
>> Oh, yeah. Of course I cackle. Like I am kind of well known for my not only am I known for my voice, but I'm also known for my my laugh. So, >> are you known for your screams?
Uh, I don't I haven't screamed like that before.
>> No, >> I do yell a lot. I I do yell a lot. So, >> I can make you scream.
>> No. Yeah.
>> I don't know. I don't I don't get I typically don't get this far.
>> Immediately chickened out.
>> Listen. Listen, first time. First time.
>> Oh, first time for everything, sweetians. Okay.
>> Hey yo, Yuri and my cast.
It's more likely than you think.
One >> actually true.
Uh oh my god. Um, anyways, >> this is >> Anyways, >> was there was there something else that you'd like to to talk about?
>> Let's see. What could we talk about? We could talk about a lot of things, couldn't we?
>> Yeah, possibilities are endless. Like I I definitely I I wanted to talk about like uh you know the the passing stuff and and so on, but I feel like we kind of we kind of jumped through with that one.
Like we just >> Yeah. It's almost like uh when you start one topic, we just kind of spiral into a bunch of another topics and >> Yeah.
>> is uh where we are. So, any tidbits about trans media and creators?
Okay. I think that like there are a lot of a lot of a lot of trans women, a lot of, you know, white trans women that are like Mhm. at the uh the bigger end when it comes to creators being liberals makes so much sense because a lot of them are just like really privileged.
>> Ooh, that is a take >> that Yeah. I mean, >> but I could see that >> there are just there are just so many I don't want to name names obviously. No, >> but like a lot of these like liberal >> trans women who are, >> you know, not not just like I guess like platformed by like conservatives and so on. They're obviously also like incredibly privileged and they're getting boosted and amplified >> and they use that money in order to they they use that money that they get from normalizing transphobic talking points in order to help with um you know getting like passing privileges and so on. But they're just like they're just so many liberal trans women Yeah, I was actually having this conversation with another friend where we were talking about when it comes to being like a trans content creator, it's one of the things of like there are a bunch of trans content creators, but you only really see the ones who have a passing voice.
>> Mhm. And if they show themselves like they themselves are passing and that is like then those are the ones who take off.
Whereas you know if you find somebody who like doesn't pass or their voice doesn't pass or whatever it may be about them uh is just struggling to get by.
>> Yeah. And I I I kind of feel like there's some truth to that and the fact of like I don't think it's on the trans women themselves so much as it's on >> society >> society and how they view transess and like how they again kind of reinforcing the stereotype of you have to pass and you have to have a passing voice to be accepted by like society as a whole.
>> Yeah. like a certain dope post needs to be met before people even like listen to you.
>> Mhm. Mhm. And I'm not saying like these people are like the trans people who do pass and all this stuff are talentless.
They have plenty of talent. It's just it's one of the things of like they also have that privilege of passing or having like passing voice. And you know, I would hope that they would recognize that, but some don't as we obviously know. And >> uh it's just one of the things of like it's kind of frustrating to have to like like feel pressured to perform to be able to get further in a way.
Sometimes I wonder if I would be uh quote unquote more successful as like a content creator if my voice was more like the ones of like other sis YouTubers.
>> Mhm.
And I think like that's a that's probably like a big part that like it's just more I say that more palatable for sis people to engage with content creators who match their beauty expectations and to learn through the trans community from them.
and they think they get like the full picture.
And a lot of like these trans women do not understand their privilege and they don't understand what trans people are actually fighting for when it comes to freedom of expression, when it comes to acceptance in society and so on, when it comes to to healthcare. And because there are so many so many trans women who who didn't transition when they were like 18 19 and had like you know funding for for all of like the the surgeries had like the um you know fortunate genetics in order to meet beauty expectations for women.
Like obviously it takes a lot of effort, right? Like it it takes effort to do voice training. It takes effort to to you know take care of your body and so on. Like all of this still takes work.
But then there's also this aspect where a lot of the uh trans women that you see that are really successful don't don't just have that body and so on because they started HIT.
And I think taking HTT and hoping that you will meet these expectations doesn't necessarily work.
>> Yeah, >> it helps. Well, >> you know, taking HT and so on, like obviously it helps, but it doesn't undo the damage that like the wrong puberty has done.
Well, and I think this kind of just falls into like the like the structures of permission, not permission of privilege where yes, uh, you know, it's one of the things of like being trans is, you know, you're not having privilege because of that. But if you're a white trans person, you're going to have more privilege than, you know, say a, you know, a black trans person or a uh trans person of color or, you know, if you're abled body, you're going to have like more privilege or, you know, if you're able to have a house or like if you have education and all this stuff like all that like I don't think a lot of people understand like those levels of privilege and then how that can shape their life and how that can shape who they are. And it does it does take a lot to deconstruct. I will admit uh having grew growing grew up in a small rural town in Missouri and having to then learn oh I have benefited a lot from the silo structure and everything because of the color of my skin. It took a lot.
It took a hot minute and like having to not only deconstruct not only you know some of the racist stuff that I was taught but also like the racial bias that I have it can be a lot to deconstruct and but once you start figuring that stuff out you start seeing how oppressive the system is and how it really can target various aspects of like your identity and how some people are not equal based off of where they were born.
Um who like what their identity is, the color of their skin. Uh are do they have they had any kind of type of uh like are they able-bodied or not? Have can they afford you know basic needs and necessities? And it's just it sometimes I had to like hit my head against a wall and be like, "You're so close. You're almost there, but just [ __ ] remove yourself from the situation. This is not about you.
>> It's about the community as a whole."
>> So, >> yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. Sorry.
I saw a system if you're plural or not because let's be really >> I can't forget my plural community.
So >> yeah, it's just it's it's really >> like there's a lot of things going on.
And I think there's also like this aspect of like well I suffered. I suffered a lot. I struggled a lot and now people are telling me that I am privileged.
you know, it's it's kind of >> I think you always get this at like some level.
>> Yes.
>> And it's >> I think that's >> it's just so it's just really ridiculous when it comes to like transitioning. the fact that you can even focus on transitioning. the fact that you can like, you know, go through this this process and, you know, you don't have to maybe maybe you don't have to on the side also live paycheck to paycheck or you're struggling with like depression and all of like these things like the level of dystori Victoria, there could be like an an aspect of like well um for me I started HT and I couldn't really do anything on the on the side or I I fought to like even start HT and it took me a while to like start HT but the fact that you know it's covered by insurance and I even was able to take all of like these these three gears to you know fight to to start HT and so on. That's also a level of of privilege that a lot of people don't have and especially like during times right now when you know there are laws being passed in order to ban trans people from accessing gender affirming care. it just it just gets harder and harder and we should like fight against this instead of being like well well that's just unfortunate and I have my rights and I don't want to lose my special privileges that I get from you know being one of the good ones.
>> Mhm.
Well, you're not you're not going to be seen as one of the good ones.
>> Yeah. Uh yeah, I was going to say I feel like a good portion of this comes from the fact of like some people like the whole not realizing that they have privilege comes from somebody who hasn't realized that they have privilege and now has like an aspect of their life where they're being oppressed and because they don't understand like it's not a bad thing to E I got to be careful with my words here cuz it's like it's not a bad thing to be oppressed. No, that's not what I'm trying to say. Uh you should be oppressed more. Uh no, but it's like there is no shame in your identity. Like there's no shame in being trans. There's no shame in like whether or not if you're able body or the color of your skin. Like you should take pride in the fact that you are these things. But when you do that, you also need to recognize that depending on where you are in your life, you might have privileges that other people don't. And being able to then help others out or to be a comforting voice to like help people understand that a passing is not the end goal of being trans. It's honestly being happy with your own transition.
>> Yeah. Or >> the thing is like >> what passing >> finding community is like super >> what passing essentially does is like >> it gives you more validity in your identity. You might get challenged less.
You might get like abused less. You might get shamed less for being uh different than than sis people. And I think a lot of people mistake that with the goal for you being trans.
The end goal of you is to just, you know, be seen as sis in order to not deal with like these struggles that come from being seen as trans. But in reality, it's like in order to get progress and acceptance in society is, you know, for trans people to just be included as who they are and be respected and be treated with human decency.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah. The all this transphobia started what, like 100ish years ago? 150 yearsish ago because a lot of a lot of indigenous and native communities have trans people written into their religious beliefs. Like even when we look at like Europe, like Greece, trans women were oracles. And then you have uh I recently learned about the Aztecs having at least two trans gods.
Like a trans goddess and a trans too.
>> Yeah, I saw that. I was like, "Oh, >> hell yeah." Uh but like but then you have like um twospirited and a lot of native communities here in the United States and how that is like that's been around and you know of like trans identities are also extremely valid in various African tribes and it's more of this like hate Christian eurosentric uh >> belief system >> capitalistic uh what's the other word that I'm missing? It's uh colonizing >> colonizing. Yeah. Yeah. colonizing behavior is what has caused for a lot of the trans identities to be hated because like a lot of the hate for like a lot of the homophobia in Africa is by televangelist churches here in the United States.
>> Yeah.
like that push of Christians and televangelists going over to Africa and like you know teaching those pastors and getting some of the radicals over there to start spreading homophobia has caused you know the the hate that we see in those tribes or like in those communities and it's just like homo like being gay was accepted for the longest time And whenever, you know, you have white nationalists who are going in and purposely spreading hate to try to be like, "Oh, well, if you hate gay people enough, we'll we'll we'll maybe accept you." And it's just frustrating.
>> Yeah.
>> It just shouldn't be >> everything is just ident and boosted by like ultra-conservative groups.
Mhm.
or like oil billionaires are also like pushing for the anti-trans stuff because it distracts from like climate change.
Nobody talks about climate change anymore. Nobody talks about um you know the the class war. It's just trans identities and gay people and uh you know coming for like women's voting rights and and so on. Like it's just everything every every progress that's that has been made in the past 60ish years is just, you know, they're trying to roll it back >> and make it worse.
>> Mhm. Also, I just want to say this uh because I did I I already responded about the whole two spirit being confused with trans identities. The the point that I'm trying to make there is that the gender binary isn't so heavily pushed in other communities as it is here in like the United States and like with Christian beliefs of like there have to be two genders. there has to be man and woman and not so much of just like because the other thing too is like a lot of non-binary people also don't take the trans label themselves and that's completely valid and fine. I'm not going to sit here and tell somebody to take a trans label if they don't want to take the trans label. Um, but yeah, >> I'm kind of I'm also kind of wondering when it comes to, you know, gender like sex reassignment surgeries performed on interex uh infants and so on. I don't really know many other cultures where interex people, you know, we're forced to adhere to like this strict binary system because I think that there are always like, you know, certain exceptions or or something that were added for those that are not meeting the uh quote unquote norm.
Uh like I think in in like the seven genders of of the Talmud, they had like oh male with uh with uh female um phenotype or or vice versa or like something like that. They're like all all forms of like different categorizations for those that you know remember >> I'm just I'm just like thinking >> other communities who are like forcing that. I'm not sure.
I yeah the first one that came to mind was like the hijra in India but it's so much of like that's a class like a cast system where they're seen as undesirabs which is all sorts of [ __ ] up and that's like interex and trans people but even then like >> I mean that's just like seen as like other >> just you know shoved away >> but then there's also like the uh the social categories and so on that are like exist existing there that actually you know there was progress being made and then in like an amendment that was just like trans identities were just like removed again and replaced with like social categories.
It was also like recent.
It's like certain protect uh protections for um what was the what was the name?
I just like Yeah. Uh, h I J R >> H I J. Yeah, exactly.
>> Yeah. Uh, and the sur Yeah. No, the fact that they existed and were recognized, it doesn't mean that they were accepted, tolerated in No, I'm not saying I'm not saying accepted. It's just like there was like recently an amendment added that removed like trans identities like selfidentification with like >> Oh. Oh. for Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I mean.
>> Yeah. that that's more recent. I think Sile is kind of uh hitting back on my point of uh like the binary system not existing in other like communities and but that doesn't mean that they were accepted and all that stuff and yes no it >> no it's just it's just their like >> class classifications that were being made obviously like othering and oppression and so on.
um happens. It's just I'm I'm just like currently thinking because like for for this western society EU and and so on, it's just like so normalized to perform reassignment surgeries, sex reassignment surgeries on interex infants in order to force them into like a binary box because it's so unfathomably wild to this society to you know accept people who are different >> which is it just sucks. It causes like all of like the these issues, but it's like, you know, one of one of many of these these instances where society just struggles with including and viewing people who don't meet like the uh the status quo as like you know normal members of of society, equal members of society. idea.
Yep, that's uh I I feel like that's most of what I have to say.
>> Yeah, that's fair.
So >> we we we kind of we kind of jumped into this this topic from like starting from like privilege.
>> Yep.
So uh chat check privilege.
>> Yeah.
Um, I feel like, you know, the fact that I I live in Germany and I have like health insurance and I don't have to pay like $150,000 for like bottom surgery. That's like a a huge privilege. And um it's just it's wild to me for people to to sit sit there and just like expect that from every trans woman.
>> Yeah. I mean my privilege for sure was the fact that I walked into my endocrinologist was like, "Hey, I would like to transition." And they're like, "Okay, do you have a therapist?" "You do? Cool. Do you know the side effects?"
Okay, cool. Well, you have an overreactive parathyroid, so we're going to take care of that. But after that, you're good to start.
>> And so I did on September 11th.
>> Yeah, for me it it took a while.
>> It took a while because I also didn't meet like these societal expectations.
Uh uh yeah. So I got I admit that I'm very lucky in the fact that I was able to basically start HRT with informed consent and >> kind of wish that was the case for everybody. Like I'm I'm just going ahead and like bang the pan and just be like >> [ __ ] let it start. like let people if it's if you are like in your 20s and you understand and you've done the research and you've looked at what what it means to transition and you understand what HRT is going to do to your body and you agree to those side effects I think you should be able to start like also yeah just cuz there's a point where it's just like Yeah. Yeah. It's one of the things like you're an adult and you should be able to make decisions for yourself and do agree that there maybe should be a little bit of like like a like a little speed bump but not a wall. I just be like, "Hey, are you like understanding or do you want to know, you know, are you talking to like a therapist or like do you have somebody who you're consulting about this a little bit and just kind of go from there. But then again, to me, I had a therapist who was extremely accepting. I had I lived in a surprisingly red state that didn't regulate that heavily. So, and also just like un like I had done up to that point I had already done like seven eight months of research on what transitioning was going to be like and what it was going to do to my body and what were the negative side effects that I have to worry about and how to mitigate those. So yeah, one of my one of my hot takes that is not actually like a a hot take is that I wish that DIY wasn't necessary.
I wish that it was easier to get access to to HT and so on and obviously informed consent and the people who do start going on like HJ and so on to then turn around and be like oh it's like the worst thing that ever happened to me in order to grift to the right and you know take trans people's rights away and give like validity like >> Mhm. I think these are like rare cases that you know shouldn't necessarily just be like dismissed, right? Like dransitioning and and so on shouldn't be like dismissed.
But a lot of D transitionals turn it into grifting to the right which which is just incredibly toxic and creating, you know, just creating an a system where it's like, oh, because I I decided to go on this journey and it wasn't right for me, I get to decide that everybody else shouldn't go on this journey.
And I think that's just it just it just sucks, right?
>> Yeah. And the like like the thing that I hate is they're like they'll use the excuse of like, oh, it was so easy and it's just like >> No, it's not.
>> Did you just have malpractice? Yeah, it's really not. But did you also have like malpractice? Because that isn't on the trans community so much as it's on that doctor. Like >> Yeah, exactly.
>> What?
It's just like I >> even the idea >> so frustrating >> even the idea that like in order if if you if you put in roadblocks where it's like okay in order to start HT uh why don't we why don't we compromise and say that you can start HT if you go to like a therapist and it's like okay have you ever tried getting a therapist es especially somebody who is qualified to talk about like gender stuff with you. That's incredibly rare. That's difficult in a lot of instances. That's really expensive as well. So, it's just, >> you know, this is like a a roadblock that shouldn't exist because it's not accessible.
>> I swear Republicans are just probably like therapy. Oh, therapy is scary. Why Why should anybody have therapy? just >> the only therapy they like is conversion therapy, which is more like a torture.
>> Uh, it is torture.
>> Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's just like what I mean. Like some people just and then they're like um they're not even like happy with that, right? like you got to be you got to be in therapy for like 3 years and you know got to do all of like these things, jump through all of these hoops. Uh for me in in Germany, I I had a therapist go like, "Well, um I'm not I'm not comfortable uh giving you the uh the ladder to like start HT and so on because well, you don't want to go to like LGBTQ meetups and like wear a skirt and so on." And I'm sitting there being like, I just I look like a guy. I don't want to get like I don't want to get harassed. I still struggle with like you know me uh like my appearance and so on and I don't want to like do all of these things because it triggers my dysphoria.
That's why I want to start HT in order to help this. And um it's like very it was like very old school to be like uh like here in here here in Germany where it's like oh in order to prove that you're actually trans you have to live for a year in a way that like matches your your gender identity and so on.
So, you essentially got to you got to start uh cosplaying a certain type of woman in order to prove to your therapist that you're a woman.
>> Mhm.
>> And um yeah, then then just like it it just took me forever to like find somebody who was like, "Yeah, you've been struggling with gender for like a really long time. I'm just going to give you that so you can like start going on a tier." And you know, to be fair, it was like also like my my fault, like I was like battling with uh depression and so on that I didn't I didn't really get myself out there. I didn't really check with like other communities and and so on. I didn't I isolated myself a lot and uh obviously a lot of it caused by dysphoria which made it incredibly difficult for me to find proper help.
>> Mhm. Well, yeah. And that's kind of the thing, too. It's just like when it comes to like finding that therapist, you have to do the it's that balance of like I am a woman. I am not like cosplaying a woman.
>> Yeah.
>> But it's like, okay, but please define what it means to, you know, to turn the words of the conservative run. Define define what it means to be a woman to me, please. And It's kind of the thing I'm just like a lot of that stuff one gets ended up like reinforcing negative stereotypes especially of like like misogynistic stereotypes of women or trying to like push this narrative of what it means to be a woman. And if you're not performing that then you're not woman enough. But at the same time, if you do do that, then you're just you're you're wearing it as a costume, and it's just the the finding the therapist who fits like who recognizes that that's not really a thing is extremely frustrating and can be really hard.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> And also, uh, we shouldn't be scoring people based off of their dysphoria. we should be scoring people based off of their euphoria. So I I know that there has been a more of a movement here in the United States for that within therapy. It's not like still not the most popular one. A lot of people still go based off of maybe the industry standard is still dysphoria, but I know a lot of therapists have been moving towards gender euphoria more. So they kind of talk with their clients and be like, "Hey, have you tried wearing different outfits? Have you tried, you know, socially transitioning where you're trying different pronouns or different names, seeing how that feels, you know, are you feeling euphoric about that? So, and I I think that's like where it needs to be pushed is more of a focus on gender euphoria than dysphoria because quite frankly, a lot of people have been coping so hard and have have found mechanisms to be able to cope that they don't recognize that they do have gender dysphoria and they just go, "Oh, yeah, you know, a lot of people feel this way."
>> No, they don't. No, they honestly don't.
And it's one of the things which just like allowing for people to be like cuz that was me. Like I didn't understand that I had dysphoria about a lot of things like about having a flat chest or about having like my hands like or having facial hair. I didn't know or my Adam's apple like I didn't know that I had dysphoria about that stuff until I started transitioning. And then I was like, "Oh, this sucks." Cuz like I wore breast forms. Yeah. Like, "Oh, I put on breast forms and like I put on a bra. I was like, "Okay, this is kind of nice.
Whatever." Like, and then I got breast forms. I put the breast forms on with a bra and I was like, "Oh my god, wait, this is so different." Looking in the mirror, kind of doing like the little like chest popped out, kind of like swinging from side to side like, "Okay, I do want boobs. I I I yeah, I need I need a feminine body. So, and then that's when I started realizing, oh, the whole not wanting to like show my chest a lot or constantly like shying away from pictures was just dysphoria.
Uh, so yeah, that's why like I think there should be more of a movement towards euphoria and being like seeing what it is that makes people happy. The thing is like for me a big part of how I know that I'm trans is the severe level of dystori and what not when I was like 14, 15, 16 or something and I looked in the mirror and I just like I saw a guy in a skirt and I was like, "Well, that sucks. I'm never going to do this again. I'm going to like start crying because I don't view myself as, you know, just >> an average girl." And um I struggled with that.
So >> yeah, >> it was really difficult for me to even get to a point where I can feel actual euphoria.
And in order to start um on this journey and like you know start with with HRT and have like some changes and you know work on myself a little bit more and grow my hair out and and whatnot. And now I have moments where you know I get euphoria and I can like dress up and and so on. Like I still have insecurities, but >> for me to even reach a point where I can do the things that I really wanted to do without, you know, just hating myself so much that I just didn't want to do it.
It took a long time.
It was hard.
>> So, >> yeah, >> euphoria is important. And it kind of breaks my heart when I hear other trans people be like, "Yeah, gender dysphoria like is like the only indication because gender euphoria is actually just a myth and it isn't real and so on because it just showcases that like you're still in a point at a point where like you're restricting yourself and you know you're struggling with your mental health and you're just miserable and that should not be your goal for transition. You your goal for transitioning should be getting to a point where you can have you know even just like a moment like a small moment where you can be happy.
>> You know >> I don't know what happened but you kind of got pixelated.
>> I know I I'm pixelated fox. Nobody look at me. All right. Listen. I I don't want to be seen. Uh, no. It's one of the things that just like I don't know it. Maybe this is just how I've always have been talking and like the thing that I've been >> I'm being refreshed chat. I mean, would it be better if I just didn't have my background? That probably eats up a lot of >> You're returned.
>> I am back. Um, like that's I know like that's a thing that I usually hit up in my content. It's just like whenever it comes to figuring out if you're trans or not, which it's one of the things of like I know a lot of people say something along the lines of like, you know, if you're questioning your gender, uh that's probably a good sign that you're trans. And I know some people push back about that and be like, "Well, but I know sis people who do that."
>> Damn. There's a difference between having, you know, a cough or like, you know, maybe a sneeze every like maybe to clear your throat out or to clear your nostrils out versus being sick, like coughing every minute or so.
>> Yeah.
>> Like the frequency of how often you're having those thoughts is the tell. But at the same time, like the other thing too is just like experiment with your gender, experiment with your pronouns, experiment with your name. Figure out what it is that you enjoy and figure out who you are. is I have a friend who has whenever he asked me to be a uh bride's wait a groom's maid for his wedding.
I came out to him like right before that and he was just like, "Fuck, you're the third person in my wedding party who has came out as trans. Fuck." Well, [ __ ] Now I have another gendered identity crisis. Give me a second. And like he went and thought about his gender and has came out and been like, "No, I'm still a sis guy. I like painting my nails. I like doing the more feminine things, but I really like I'm still he him. These are my pronouns. This is my gender." And like he is more comfortable in his identity than I have known with any other uh that I've ever known in like any other like man. Like it's been very great and I love the fact that he's thought about his gender and then he's explored various things about his gender. And that's kind of my thing. It's just like when you do these things, when you look at being trans, when you think about maybe possibly being trans and you try on different clothing, you try, you know, different, you know, try on makeup if you've never tried makeup on before or, you know, you change up your appearance, you change up your pronouns, you change up your name, and you see what works for you. If you figure out that, you know, having different pronouns and being like a different name doesn't work out for you, that's fine. You know, you did the work. You tried exploring your identity and figuring out who you are. And if you came back and are like, "No, the default settings are, you know, the factory default settings are okay with me and like I enjoy them and I'm like fine with them, good." You know what? you have done more with your gender identity than any other sis person has in general. And I think that should be something that you should be proud of. And but at the same time, like if you come out the other end, it's like, "Oh my god, I'm trans."
That's f that's fantastic. You've learned so much about yourself and you've figured out so much about yourself. And the thing is like again, you don't have to like the stereotypical feminine things. You don't have to like stereotypical masculine things or you know neither whatever the androgynous aspect of that is.
If you like being if you're a fellow tomboy like me, fantastic. I to come join the club. Join join the trans fims tomboy crowd over here. If you're a fanboy trans mask, I love that for you my like buddy. That's absolutely amazing. And that's the thing is like experiment, play around, see what works, see what you enjoy, and be that person.
Be your happiest self. And that's to me that's what transitioning is. It's just finding your happiest most joyful self that you possibly can and being your best p being the best per being the best version of you that you can be.
There's always like this uh this demonization of like questioning yourself and like figuring out who you are >> and then there's always like this aspect of like oh you you start exploring and then you're like pushed into like a certain direction which is like obviously not true right >> Mhm. You can, but it's at any point just like be, oh, I learned something about myself and this isn't who I am, and I'm just going to do the thing that makes me most comfortable with myself, but at least you have some clarity. And I don't know why it's like so expected of trans people to be like, "Oh, no, you shouldn't experiment with your gender identity." Because also sis people sometimes, you know, like sometimes you have sis women who do masculine things and sometimes you have uh sis men who think about like being women or do feminine things. And it's like you shouldn't do anything with your gender.
uh you got to just uh suppress it and repress it and you know fit in. It's it's just it's so frustrating.
It is. And that comes from the fact of like it's just fascist trying to make everyone fit into a box because it's easier to control people when you fit neatly in their perceived box of control.
>> Yeah. where if you're which is why they go after trans people, which is why they go after queer people, which is why they go after indigenous people and people of color is because we stand outside of that box and we say, "Oh, no, you can be happy by expressing gender like different gender identities or by not following this like the like being in this box. you're being like expressing yourself and being yourself and being proud of the person that you are is okay. Like you don't need to have shame over the fact that you're, you know, a more masculine woman. You can have pride in that and you can enjoy that or you can have pride in being a more feminine man and it's okay to express yourself and express your gender identity and to be you.
So, and and that's kind of the thing. It was just like whenever you're you it's the trying to control people by forcing them into boxes because it's easier to control people when they fit neatly in a tiny little box that the elite and ruling class want people to fit.
>> Yeah. The reason why conservatives are terrified of like LGBTQ representation and media and so on is not oh because it makes the kids gay. It's because it shows a gay kid that it's okay to be gay. And it's also showing you know sis uh straight kids that you know trans people exist and so on. And that is what like what they are really like stressing over because if you show that there's like a different path then that like conversion therapy and uh whatnot it just doesn't like it's it's not as normalized anymore, right? That's what what everything is about. But it's just about control and um you know if you can control people's identities and how they express themselves it's just easier to control what they should think and who you know they should like which authority they should like submit to.
>> Mhm. And um yeah, I I wish I wish that we would get to a point where sis people would realize that hey actually you know trans people being accepted and so on also helps me out because sadly the society is not going to care that much if it's just about benefiting trans people without it also benefiting them.
>> Mhm. Well, that's kind of the thing is like whenever you having diversity doesn't just help the minority group, it helps everybody. So, like >> when they finally figure out how to do 4C hair for like animation, that's huge.
That's amazing because now that allows for not only just, you know, black people to be represented, but it also allows for various other people of, you know, color nationalities to be represented and having to like be able to express various uh communities. And it's a thing of like whenever one group gets rights or like are allowed to finally sit at the table and to be able to talk at said table and have room at the table, everybody benefits.
>> Yeah.
>> It's just in general. It's how um when it comes to like accessibility like you you install a a ramp for like a building like it it helps other groups as well.
Um >> Mhm.
>> you know like if you if you're a parent with like a a stroller, you can use that. You don't have to like carry it up. um you know, even if you're just riding a bike, it helps you as well to have a ramp and you don't have to carry up your bike.
And um meanwhile, when it comes to the opposite of like horse architecture, it it hurts a lot of different groups as well, you know. And uh it's just like right now what we just like see is they come after trans rights especially uh trans women and it destroys people's expression. uh especially cis women are also being controlled when it comes to their their appearance and yet like so much harassment as well online and uh the rise in misogyny is directly linked to a lot with a rise in transphobia.
Yeah, it's Yep.
A lot of things are interconnected. So, >> yeah.
Like I don't I don't understand like the idea that like oh uh the LGBT community had so many rights and then the trans people came in there and like I I feel like only fascists are saying that. I was like this, oh the LGB, they are like fine and accepted while they are also coming for like gay gay marriage and and whatnot.
>> Let's not forget that they removed uh not only did they remove trans people from the um Stonewall memorial.
>> Yeah. which by the way was like the current rights that we have as a queer community were fought for by black trans women.
>> Yeah.
>> And uh but they were also I think they removed bisexual people as well.
>> Mhm.
>> So the LGBT without the tea crowd really is just eating themselves and it's really disgusting. So, it's one of the things that like if you want further proof that these groups like fascists are going to come after you next, just look at how they removed bisexual people from the Stonewall memorial and they're going to strip, you know, gays and lesbians.
And it's like, oh, well, it was people who fought for the rights of like who threw bricks at cops. It's like, "No, it was it was black trans women who uh were throwing the bricks and were getting the rights for gay people and others came in and joined upon that." And like to remember everybody, Pride is a riot. The Pride celebrations were originally riots to make sure that gay rights and lesbian rights and the rights of queer people in general were fought for and were actually protected. So >> yeah, >> remember to have your brick on hand.
>> I mean, here in here in Germany during like Nazi Germany when I was in school, they taught me, oh yeah, and then there were like book burnings and so on, but it's like Yeah, they burned uh research like trans topics and you know things advocating for like for for gay people.
Magnus Hel was one of like the first who didn't classify being gay as like a mental illness.
>> And um like he he also had like his, you know, struggles when it comes to like uh wanting uh trans people to have like a trans passport or something. It's like it's obviously not perfect, but like he did research it and I think we would be way more ahead if that entire building didn't get destroyed by Nazis.
>> Yeah. and the fact that it's just not being taught that like all of the staff that was killed essentially were like LGBT uh uh TQ people finding you know a home and like a a workplace in the clinic itself.
So most of the people that were working there were gay or trans and they got killed. I was like, "Oh yeah, staff got killed and you know the the book burnings." She's like, "It's queer people.
That's what they destroyed."
Mhm.
Well, and it's it kind of just like it goes back to like even like the Bernie of Alexandria. It was done by Christians trying to like erase history beforehand of, you know, non-Christian people. So, like it's just one of the things of like you're going to have like not Christians, sorry, uh fascists who are going to purposely try to burn history and rewrite history so that way they can >> make it fit their ideal image.
>> Wasn't Oh my god. Was it was it Socrates whose teacher was a woman and that entire um everything got like erased because Christians were like pushing the idea that women can't be in leadership positions or so on. I'm not I'm not I'm not sure who who it was. It was like someone's question me about the burning of the Alexandria library.
Espasia Espazia according to Plato Socrates was taught rhetoric and philosophy by a woman named Espasia of Milus Militus I don't know and like you you don't hear about that because it doesn't fit into like the the narrative that like women can't be teachers.
Maybe they mixed it up. Maybe it was just the burning was by basically like the Romans to But it was definitely to like erase history.
This is why it's important to always double check your facts.
>> Yeah.
I mean, it's also like a a general thing. I mean, like, isn't isn't Trump also uh didn't he like pull images when it comes to like women in the military and like people of color in the in the military?
>> Yeah. I mean, they also pulled the Constitution from the Constitution page.
>> Interesting.
>> So, it's, you know, trying to make sure that people don't understand their bill of rights or >> Yeah. you know what what rights they have here in this country because if you can keep a population uneducated and in the dark then yeah uh it's much easier to control them and it's much easier to make sure that they don't rebel.
I remember that they got like really upset at AOC for telling uh uh immigrants their rights being like, "Oh, you don't actually, you know, you you you shouldn't actually just be kidnapped and taken to like a different state and then uh you know, just like dropped off or disappeared completely."
Yeah.
Yep. Let's Let's call the What is it? Is it the Honduras prison that they're being like sent to? It's just a concentration camp.
>> Wasn't that something with an E? Wait, pull the tab. I just fall off to the side so I can keep an eye on the El Salvador. Thank you.
>> El Salvador.
>> Something with an E.
>> I knew it was I knew it was Central America.
Um but yeah, sending people to the El Salvador camps that that's just a concentration camp.
>> Yeah.
>> Like let's just let's not sugarcoat it.
Let's not uh beat around the bush on this. So But I >> mean there's also like this this problem of like people thinking that the ones that are going there are just like evil bad people because of all all of the propaganda. And if you >> say hey you know if you go to prison you shouldn't lose all of your human rights and so on.
>> Mhm. It's less appealing to a society that has been like told about like terrorists and all of these >> Yeah. who have been >> evil criminals.
>> Yeah. That's also like, you know, the thing when it comes to like trans trans people, >> trans women, trans men in prison that are like forcefully dransitioned and so on and it's like, yeah, you shouldn't uh actually dransition when you go to prison. Don't do the crime if you don't want to uh you know be like assaulted and uh dehumanized and uh have your lose all of your rights and access to medical treatment and so on. And it's like it's just it's so messed up.
>> Well, yeah. And it it it all plays into the like it's there's that and then you have like the Adriana Smith with the being somebody who was brain dead but was pregnant and >> basically being forced to be an incubator. It's just like that's kind of the goal is that they want to force people to be, you know, binary uh force women into being like childbearing uh like child making factories. And you know, if you're not useful, they'll just make you into an incubator. And if you think this is just for, you know, black people, and no, it's not. It they're they're coming for white women. They're coming for you, too.
>> You're not the >> They stated it for like trans men, like the transitioners necessary in order to quote unquote preserve fertility.
>> Yep.
>> And it's so gross.
>> It's just so gross.
>> Yep. It is. So it's one of the things of like I don't think on like whenever a community is being loud about the issues that they are facing, you need to listen to them.
>> Yeah. and take what they are saying to heart. Because the thing is is if these issues are happening to said community, happening to the indigenous community, happening to the black community or the Hispanic community or the trans community or the gay community, those rights being stripped are your rights being stripped. It might not seem it immediately, but that stuff is coming towards you.
>> Yeah.
>> Period.
And that's kind of it's just like the frustrating thing of just like trying to like get people to understand that it's just again it plays into the whole thing that was said earlier of like people like minority groups gaining rights, gaining equal rights isn't just a benefit for them, it's a benefit for everybody. And that's just so it's frustrating to try to beat that into people's brains a little bit.
>> The gaslighting and invalidation of like people's struggles.
It's just it it blows my mind every single time because >> Mhm.
you know, there there are trans people who who like warned about like all of the things that are happening and and people people told me like, "Oh, you're just fearongering. Oh, you're just like overreacting and so on."
>> Mhm. And like right now it's like, "Yeah, but like you know, you're in Germany, so like you're safe." And you know, then I look at like the polls and see how like the the far right is getting more traction, how conservatives are more, you know, paving the way for fascists. And it's just like at what point are they going to like stand up and and speak up for us?
Because I I feel like if if we are all like in in camps and so on, I don't think they are also going to like speak up, right?
>> Like at what point is it just like are they going to like wake up and be like, "Oh yeah, that's like [ __ ] up and that's like too far."
>> Yeah. It's because they didn't read the poem.
>> Yeah. the you know the first they came for the communists but I didn't speak up cuz I wasn't a communist and they came for the trade unionist but I didn't speak up cuz I was a trade unionist and then so on and so forth and then they came after me and there was someone left to speak up for me like it's again it plays into the whole privilege like systems of privilege >> but like and I and I've had this like >> I I live in Massachusetts right now and I'm from Missouri so I went from like a what was a once a deep purple state to now like a deep red state to a very blue state. But like just talking to some of the people here, mainly mainly white people about some of the issues that, you know, Missouri is facing and how a lot of that is going to be coming this way and just having just like them waving away. It's like, well, no, this is just Massachusetts. It's fine. Like we we have things kind of like protected, you know, it's going to be fine. And like I've had to like spell things out for people.
>> Yeah. like how they are actively trying to like have a trans genocide by, you know, thankfully these laws didn't get very far, but by but like the law in Texas where being gay or being trans can count as a uh as a sexual offense against a minor and how that can get you put onto the sex offenders list. And then you have the law in Florida where if you are a sex offender, you could be punished by death. You could just be executed for being a sexual offender, especially if it's a sexual offender. Like you're a sexual offender to a minor. And like I spelled that out for somebody and they're just like, "How can they do that?" I'm like, "Because people don't care. Not enough people care. And nobody's listening to the trans and gay community when we talk about these issues and they say that we're overreacting and that we're just not that we're just we're just being like childish. And it's just like no, it's it's right there in Project 2025. It's right there and we already see it being enacted in states.
>> Yeah.
>> And you're sitting here being like, well, I don't think you've suffered enough or I don't think I you you're just overreacting. that's not an actual thing. And it's just like, tell me that you're not affected by this. Please tell me how you are not affected by this and you don't care because it doesn't impact you.
So it's I mean the reason why why trans people, gay people are being portrayed as like groomers and and pedos and so on. It's just because if you have been framed, if you have been portrayed as such and you you know speak up and well other people are speaking up for you, nobody's going to listen.
And um it's just it's exhausting. It's exhausting to see everything happening. Like I I can share my own personal experience. Every now and then I do like a post on Blue Sky or or you know Twitter and I'm like um you know not quote tweeting something but I'm you know just like making a a statement. put something in quotation marks that that I have heard and I have like hundreds of comments of people being like, "Nobody's actually like this. If you were if you were just like normal and you know uh wouldn't make it your entire personality to be trans, nobody would actually have an issue with you." And it's like the gaslighting.
>> Oh my god. The inability to like listen to somebody's life experience is just mind-blowing.
Mhm.
It is. Uh so I wish things were easier.
I feel like >> I do too.
>> I feel like as as trans people, >> you know, like we're we're kind of like the canary and the coal mine, but like >> even if we're dying, nobody's going to listen to like the warning signals and so on. And they are just straight up walking into death and nobody gives a [ __ ] And then later on generations will write, "Oh, how did that happen? We could never >> have such a thing." They were just like stupid. Why did they listen to somebody like Trump?
That is ridiculous.
How could these people be so easily uh sweet and like believe this when it was quite clear and it's just like nobody listened. Nobody [ __ ] listened. So, and that's kind of the problem.
people rarely want to privileged people rarely want to listen to, you know, those that are more oppressed than them.
>> Mhm. Well, that's the kind of the thing is I and maybe I'm just like speaking for mostly white Americans here, but like I feel like a lot of white Americans want to feel oppressed and so they will find any like if you ever try to tell them that they have a privilege Oh my god.
>> Oh god.
>> I can't preach to this innocent pregnant person about how they are going to go to hell if they are entering this abortion clinic.
>> I am It's one of the things oppressed.
>> If you tell somebody that they have privilege immediately gets defensive and it's like, "Oh, well, but I but but but" and it's just like, "Shut up. Just shut up.
remove yourself from the situation and objectively try to look at the situation and realize, yeah, you do have some privileges. You do have like there are things >> you're playing oppression Olympics.
>> Oh, I hate I I hate I hate I hate So, >> yeah.
>> Same same.
I think also like there are people who do not understand that they are struggling because they are not privileged when it comes to uh the amount of money they have. They struggle because of like economic uh privileges that they are you know lacking but they refuse to understand that there are people who struggle additionally when it comes to uh um you know their their sexual identity and and so on.
>> Mhm.
>> Yep. just keep crashing Grinder whenever there's an RNC.
>> One day they're going to come out of the closet.
>> I'm I'm sure >> the closet is glass.
>> Yeah, >> we can all see through it.
I feel like I feel like a lot of like toxic masculinity and misogyny comes from people who just like guys who just aren't interested and being in relationships with women.
>> Mhm.
>> And it is not the woman's fault that they are not into women.
Yep. I would agree. I uh I'm of the belief that more people are by and pan.
Like it's actually the majority of people are by and pansexual because >> Oh, I made people mad.
I made I made people mad because I said that like the majority of people aren't attracted to uh >> Yeah.
>> the like fertility and like sexual like reproduction, reproductive purposes and and so on. I I think most people are buy and pan and society has done a too good of a job to basically preach homophobia and mostly towards men and like that it's it it's bad to be gay.
>> And I I think I think most people are I think most men would probably you know be much happier if they had a you know they had a a stick up their ass but in a way that they would actually appreciate.
I think the majority of guys like the reason why they they hate, you know, being attracted to like trans women and they they lash out and so on is just because they think that the entire sense of like romantic attraction is purely based on reproductive purposes.
>> Yeah.
And that's, you know, because they've been indoctrinated to believe so. So, anything that that breaks this makes them question things.
>> Mhm. They don't like that.
>> Again, it's it's the uh everything's got to be in this nice tight nice tight little box that I can easily control because if it's not, then I got to actually think. I have to think about my gender and my sexuality.
No, I I Jesus Christ.
>> Yeah.
>> How dare people be happy with their sexual orientation and their gender identity and it not be aligned with what you think it should be?
>> I wish more people were comfortable with like exploring their own sexual identity, not just like their gender expression, but also their sexual identity. Especially when it comes to the difference between like understanding the difference between romantic attraction and sexual attraction.
>> Mhm.
>> And uh that there can also be, you know, differences. There can be uh um there can be a lot of like variety, a lot of complexity. Yeah. Yeah. Please, please, please pre please preach. Uh hey, as a lesbian uh like grayexual, uh yeah, I can find women hot and I can find women to be extremely attractive and I could want them to completely and totally utterly destroy me, but that doesn't mean I want to have sex with them all the time.
like just I just oh my god >> it's more complicated >> yeah I have I have felt so much pain for asexual people and then >> I sat down I was like >> oh I understand why I get it now [ __ ] so yeah it's just one of the it's just frustrating sometimes just be like yeah sexual identity and even just like gender identity is multiaceted like multifaceted and it has like a lot of it's like a bunch of different shades of gray.
>> Yeah. And none of it like is easily distinguished. And it's how we interpret those grays is how we see gender and identity. Gender identity and like sexual orientation, all that stuff.
>> Oh, >> and I'm just now remembering that I need to take my meds.
>> I have failed to do that.
>> Yeah. Like For me that was also like a a major aspect with like me having disoria that kind of still to some extent kind of limits how like how my sexual identity manifests. So I'm like always questioning myself.
>> Mhm.
>> Um because you know the more comfortable I get with myself the more comfortable I get with like exploring certain things.
>> Mhm.
Well, and then not only do you become more like comfortable exploring things, but you be like you have a stronger sense of self and >> are more comfortable with your identity, you know, figuring out whatever it may be. It's just like you feel like you have a greater sense of knowledge on that and are able to then express that a little better. And I think that's amazing.
>> Yeah.
You said you didn't have like severe dysphoria before you realized that you're that you're trans or you didn't know that it was dysphoria that you had?
I Yeah. I didn't know that it was dysphoria because where I grew up uh I was endlessly bullied >> Mhm.
>> for being too emotional.
>> And >> same >> I Yeah. I remember whenever I was a kid, um there was a fire that happened at my grandmother's at my grandparents place and it burned down a toy that I really loved. And the next day I was kind of crying a little bit because like you know I'm mourning the loss of something that I had like really close feelings towards.
M >> and the substitute teacher came up to me and basically was like, "Stop crying.
Boys don't cry."
>> Who doesn't love that? Woo! Amazing.
>> Yeah. So, I grew up and it wasn't just him. It was a lot of the other guys in the class as well who just kept teasing me for being too feminine for being, you know, I was I had uh being called gay was a thing that happened a lot throughout like my middle school years and just constantly being bullied by by the environment as well, right? Like if you have you have a kid and you have like teachers like grown adults, >> you know, mock uh mock you for not meeting like the toxic masculinity and so on.
>> Yep.
>> They just said like this example gives it >> Yep.
>> full circle.
>> And that was kind of Yeah, that was kind of the thing it was. And then when I got it was seventh grade, I was watching I was in my parents' bedroom waiting for my mom to get done getting ready because she had just became a special education paraprofessional.
And I was sitting there on my parents' bed watching the television and up pops this commercial for Oprah talking about a trans boy and how, you know, he was a girl and realized that he wasn't really a girl and how he came out to his parents of being a boy and his parents started to allow for him to socially transition by allowing for him to cut his hair and like wear boys clothing and all this stuff. And I distinctly remember when I watched that commercial, the first thought that popped in my head was could you do that the other way?
>> Like could I who could I a boy become a girl?
And then the second thought that analy hit my head afterwards was push that all the way the [ __ ] down because otherwise you're going to be bullied if anybody figures this out.
>> Yeah.
>> And it was just like I like that's why I didn't feel dysphoria is because anytime that I felt even the slightest hint of it, >> the teaching like societal t teachings told me to push that [ __ ] all the way the [ __ ] down and to just not even think about it. And that ended up causing me so much pain and why I ended up having stuff like internalized homophobia, internalized transphobia.
And uh it took me until I moved out of my parents' place and I went to I went to university and you know interacted with a bunch of people. I actually ended up it's funny cuz I think about it now. I was surrounded by a lot of trans men growing up. Uh I worked with whenever I was working in retail, I had two co-workers who I was constantly chatting with who were trans mask. Uh ended up becoming friends with like non-binary people throughout university and uh the second person who I ended up coming out to uh I met her. she was transfed up like yeah like growing up I became friends with trans people all the way up and uh I also had a boss who was trans who who is a trans man um >> and uh nope sorry cat trying to get on top of my PC um >> cat trying to get on top of cat >> yeah yep Yep. Yep. My meow is trying to get into my lap. Um but when I finally was hanging out with uh what finally ended up like causing me to like everything snapped for me was I joined a Destiny 2 clan that was nothing but queer people.
>> Okay.
>> And like there were some sishat people, you know, at the time. I thought I was one of those people, but I was like, you know what? I'll I'll join um a queer clan because I want to know, you know, the struggles that, you know, people in the community are facing. I want to be able to like, you know, surround myself with these people so that way I can understand their issues or struggles, you know, normalize them for myself. So that way, cuz I was like doing a lot of deconstructing. I was like deconstructing the internal homophobia that I had, the internal transphobia that I had, a lot of like internal racist beliefs that had been drilled into me that I was getting rid of. So was also kind of like watching more uh content by black creators and trying to like listen to them and like uplifting their voices as much as I could. And by doing that, I realized [ __ ] I'm not sis at all and I'm not heterosexual.
I'm gay, but like I still like women and the egg finally cracked whenever I went to a In this moment concert and listened to In This Moment Blood. And I was like, why does this why why why why do I feel gay? Like I don't this is a woman. I should be feeling extremely straight right now. Why do I feel so gay? Like in a yearful way.
And then uh that's where it finally hit me when I came out to my wife. I was just like honestly knowing what I know now, 10 years ago I would have started transitioning at the age of 18. and I would be so much happier to be a woman.
And the look on my wife's face was, "You need to go to a therapist." And I was just like, "You're so right. I need She didn't have to say anything. I my I was immediately just like, you're right. I do need to go see a therapist. I I've got so many things that I need to figure out." So, and then what finally like was a final nail in the coffin for me was Abigail Thorne um Velocity Tubes coming out video and I was just like that that right there that explains everything that she is so right. That is how I feel.
So that's that's how I kind of came out and like why I never felt dysphoria for a while is because pushed down society and I had to like deconstruct a lot of things.
>> Yeah.
So >> yeah, for me it was like I didn't I didn't really like I also had this repression. I had like the the sense of like, well, I can never be a real girl and I don't like being, you know, a fanboy or crossdresser or something like it. It doesn't really feel right to me. And um I didn't I I went into like the state of like autopilot. I'm just disassoc disassociating. I'm numb. I'm depressed.
And I went I went more into like the the this like rightwing pipeline this like red pill type of things. I watched Milo Yiannopoulos back in the day and like John Peterson. I have like 12 books and uh I fell down like into this and I'm kind of I'm kind of like trying to to remember what like gave me the push to like even start transitioning. But I think it was like when I was like 22, I was just like I'm so [ __ ] miserable with everything.
I don't think I can make it. And I might as well just like give this a try. And I came out as trans.
>> Yeah, that's fair.
Had my first D and D campaign thing, you know, a woman.
And uh but I didn't I didn't really make a lot of like trans friends and so on. And it took me a while. It took me a while to get in into like a a better environment, a queer a queer environment.
And I think a lot of it came from like the the internalized like bigotries and like transphobia and like what I learned through like these anti-SJW things of like, oh, all of these trans people are like they're so uh so obnoxious and so on.
All of them are like so creepy.
And I think that's why like it took me so long. Like I learned about trans people like more from like right-wing creators than actually like seeking out seeking out trans creators and and looking for all of these things.
That's this is a problem.
>> Yeah, it is.
>> And I I wish >> I just wish that like trans people existed when I was younger.
>> Mhm. And I wish that it was more accepted.
Mhm.
Because I wasted so many years just being stagnant and uh depressed and not actually caring about anything.
Mhm.
I feel like that's how a lot of trans people are is like, yeah, you just kind of float through life like before they figure out that they're they're trans is like you're just kind of numbly floating through life without Yeah.
>> any kind of real direction or knowing who you are.
>> Like even even sitting down and like trying to learn like a skill, something that I'm like passionate about, it was really difficult.
Um because I just I just didn't it didn't really feel like I was like living my life and like fighting for my achievements and like learning something for myself. It's just felt like I'm I'm just I don't know doing it for somebody else like doing it for a life that I shouldn't like I wasn't meant to live in.
Mhm.
So just like it felt so pointless. It it it felt pointless to get like good grades in school because like for what?
God, I feel that cuz I got a lot of accolades and I always was just like these aren't my accolades.
>> Yeah.
>> I never could like explain that as a kid. I was just like I Yeah, I'm getting all these accolades which is great and all but like I don't feel like they're mine.
>> Yeah. And now I'm like, "Oh, that's why I was living a lie."
>> Mhm.
>> So, >> like for for me it was just like it >> like it was always so I always hear stories of people being like, "Yeah, I missed like all of these signs for like such a long time." And I'm sitting there being like from a really young age, I just knew that I should have been a girl.
Mhm.
Yeah.
Yeah. I knew at a really young age that I felt more comfortable being around other girls than I did around being guys and I wanted to be a girl. It's just it was really hard for me because I didn't have the language at the time or >> the knowledge because yeah I grew up in a like again small rural town so and it was like deeply Christian.
Yep.
Lucky I really got to go to the bathroom. same actually. Do you want to uh keep keep going or are you >> do do you have to like start streaming or typically I do like 2 hours or so like we and at that point >> I I haven't had lunch so I'm a little hungry but usually lunch for me is just like something I throw in the microwave and call it good. Like if you if you a little bit >> if you want to head head out if you if you want to, you know, it's like kind of >> Yeah, I can head out. I >> kind of like >> I I mean, we talked about like a bunch of topics, right? Like um >> I think that we should definitely uh do this again. Like if you're if you're willing to come on here again. Um, but yeah, we we did talk about a bunch of stuff, bunch of important things and um I think it would be like a good point to just call it a night.
>> Yeah, I was going to say I also need to get you back on uh for actual trans memes and not just, you know, >> not just screaming and yelling at sis people.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> Toxic sis people.
>> So, >> yeah. Thanks for hanging out.
>> Yeah, thanks for having me on. That was very wonderful.
Good to just Yeah. about >> Do you want to do you want to tell people where where they can find you?
>> Sure. Uh, hi. Yes. I am uh Cafe Foxtail.
You can find me on Cafe Foxtail on pretty much everywhere. That's C A F E K A T T A L E. Everyone thinks it's tail like a tail. It's tail. It's telling the story >> out of habit.
Mhm. Mhm. Main YouTube channel is >> Yeah, my main YouTube channel is Cat Fay Foxtail, so it's a pun cuz it's a meme videos. You can thank one of my moderators for that. But other than that, that's where you can pretty much find me. Uh, every once in a while, you can find me just here in Nara's chat.
So, you know, >> follow Nara on everything as well because I pop in every so often. And also, Nara is just a really cool creator. So, >> she does a lot of good things. Then don't you even dare try uh to know you me. It's uh and you girl get it right.
And yeah, so you know, do all the things like, follow, subscribe, comment, uh chat in the chat, everything for Viara because she deserves it.
>> You're doing to me what I did to you now.
>> Yeah. Get wrecked. It's my revenge now.
You have me on here. I'm going to promote you just a little bit.
Get loved, nerd.
>> Get absolutely loved and appreciated.
>> How dare you? How absolutely dare? The audacity in front of my chat.
>> You know, I just I got to support my twins regardless of where I'm at.
So >> yeah, they swang out and uh >> yeah, >> we should we should talk after after I'm gone for TwitchCon. We should uh >> yap again sometimes.
>> Last time it was after paxis we can chat and now it's after TwitchCon.
>> After Twitch going to be constantly going back.
>> Yeah.
>> So >> yeah, go piss girl.
>> Yep. You too. You go piss girl.
Thanks for hang out everybody. Uh for Twitch, I will be streaming a little bit longer, but uh for YouTube, thanks for hanging out. I hope you enjoyed the the the narcast and I will see you again soon.
Bye bye.
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